OK, here is the question that this poster poses:
If the ideal org is SO important, why are two FORMER Executive Directors NOT ON STAFF? Why are they FORMER at all? It was NOT in fact the most rewarding job in the entire universe (according to the recruitment promo they routinely send out).
What’s the message here? Hand over a few thousand and it gives you a free pass on the ideal org front? And meanwhile, who can forget the stories of the OT VIIIs being strong-armed into “leading their ideal orgs?”
I assume that your blog is predominantly for former and current members/parishioners/believers (I don’t know the proper terminology) of Scientology, with the intention of enlightening/deprogramming/informing them to realize that they don’t need the science fiction religion of Scientology. If your blog is indeed intended for the above stated audience, then I’m sure your blog posts make sense.
As someone who fortunately was never involved in Scientology, I admit I have an extremely difficult time understanding what you are saying in the posts because there are so many new terms,words, abbreviations, that it’s practically a new dialect or language. Is there somewhere you explain or define what it all means? Part of me believes that all the Scientology jargon is intentionally confusing to make it appear esoteric…not that you are doing that in your posts but just Scientology in general. What confuses me isn’t how someone can get sucked into Scientology; that I part I understand because I myself was in Christian cult for many years. I’ve also watched the few documentaries that are out and Leah’s show onA&E, but even still,the posts I’ve read here are very confusing to me.
You assume correctly.
Often I don’t have time to think through how to explain everything to those who have never been involved in scientology. But on the other hand, if everything is explained for a “never-in” it makes very tedious reading for those who have been in. And that is the biggest audience for this blog. I try to strike some sort of balance. But I admit this one is not suited at all to those who are unfamiliar with scientology.
Here, let me summarize it for you.
Hubbard created a hierarchy to run scientology.
Miscavige has dismantled it and “disappeared” those who should be running things because he considered them threats.
Scientologists should be worried about this because it is “not what Ron [Hubbard] said to do” and also because it is clearly a failing strategy.
Thank you for your reply. I also just finished reading your welcome message for this blog and realized that you did explain that this blog is for former/current Scientologists. Because of my past experiences within a cult myself, I am drawn to trying to understand them; and they all have the same backbone of brainwashing: stroke ego, offer solution, save your soul/make “clear”, legitimize your enlightenment, then control and threaten you to ensure your enlightenment and safe soul. But I am very curious to know this, about former scientologists specifically, – do former/”on the fence” scientologists, including yourself, think that what Miscavige has done to Scientology is what makes scientology an abusive,fabricated, scam of a religion OR do formers, including yourself, believe that even Hubbard’s Scientology texts and practices were also an abusive,fabricated, scam?
I do not believe in Scientology at all, but I definitely believe in some of the universal theories that Hubbard touched on, such as past lives, healing traumas of past lives or even from your childhood, etc. BUT like every other cult, pyramid scheme, and other scams, Hubbard used universal truths to sell lies. I think that’s the part that some may hold on to and remain thinking that Hubbard was some guru because he did say things that were true, but he distorted them incredibly.
I learned invaluable lessons of life when I was inside my Christian cult, because much of what they taught was true – when it came to character and discipline of self.
That is really the trickiest part of cults – there is a lot of truth but they claim those truths as their own original thought that they need to sell to you along with lies and bs.
Another question: In that popular video clip of Miscavige announcing Hubbard’s death, why did Miscagivge refer to the year 1986 as 36 A.D.? I think I know….because Hubbard was like Christ? But why?
do former/”on the fence” scientologists, including yourself, think that what Miscavige has done to Scientology is what makes scientology an abusive,fabricated, scam of a religion OR do formers, including yourself, believe that even Hubbard’s Scientology texts and practices were also an abusive,fabricated, scam?
People are all over the spectrum from “It’s all Miscavige’s perversions” to “It’s all Hubbard’s insanity.” Most sit somewhere in between.
AD 36 stands for “After Dianetics” — a Hubbard conceit that he began using to date things in scientology. He claimed he was not a Messiah. He just acted like one….
Thank you for your replies! I have so many more questions regarding the spectrum of ex-scientologists’ beliefs. I think I may ask the questions on Leah’s reddit page, however. It seems more appropriate, rather than mucking up this post. 🙂
WE all make terrible errors in judgment and mistakes in life that hurt OTHERS. It is ONLY when we truly look back and honestly, fully, & truthfully REPENT for the harm we did to others can we begin to heal.
Each time Mike & Leah light another candle to shine on the TRUTH behind what is really going on, only THEN will their OWN hearts begin to heal.
I can only imagine the PAIN Mike is feeling internally for his wrongs in the past. It was his JOB to do what he did and then as a firm believer in COS, just like many on this blog, in the end those SAME beliefs hurt Mike more than anyone will ever know. Mike lives with the loss of his children & the dissolution of his marriage as well as the loss of his extended family members.
Or maybe most here DO KNOW, you’ve lost family too for a belief system….something you n the pat put forth every effort, every cent & maybe said some not nice things to other. Just how many times is Mike to beat himself up, beat his head against a wall to “pay for his crimes” against others. I am sure Mike might hate himself more than anyone else ever could for what he’s done in the past. .
It is time to FORGIVE one’s self…..keep lighting those candles…..the truth shall set everyone FREE one day.
So, what’s this, the Cult’s take on Thelma and Louise?
COS is shrivelling if they have to promote two has-beens [no offence but they are not exactly at their peak!] in an old jalopy as the vanguard of the movement. I wonder how long it will take for the church to suck these cutting edge members dry to become the old guard. They will then be overboarded to live out their lives in the lap of retirement luxury the church provides all its faithful servants.
Sure, right in the lap of a luxurious Medicaid-funded nursing home. What a way to go.
There are SO many things wrong with this that it is clear that people inside the bubble are just robotically going about there jobs with no thought processes running.
They’re on automatic, Mike. That way they don’t have to think. Especially if they have secret doubts.
You’re assuming they even still have thought processes.
So much for editing……
The difference between genius and stupidity is . .
genius has its limits.”…………………………………Albert Einstein
Unlimited stupidity. Now that’s scary…
Great Einstein quote and useful as the concept for a workable stable datum for the times you’re on this blog reading some over the top cult crap, and thinking, “Nah, they can’t possibly buy THIS bullshit!”
Stable datum: Yes, they can, and will.
Amen Aqua….the belief system like in some other religions is so deeply ingrained in the mindset it’s nearly impossible to “shake off”. In some religions the very threat of “Hellfire and brimstone & eternal damnation” for leaving the cause (that religion) strikes such fear in their hearts they’d rather commit suicide then LEAVE ‘the religion”.
You can talk til you are blue in the face and some people will never “get it”, no matter what has been done to them, their immediate family or extended family and friends. The “Svengali” of COS has such a hold on some families with the disconnection policy etc….they are in for life & that is all too sad.
That has got to be one of the very worst promo pieces that I’ve ever seen. Dementia is all that I can think while looking at it.
The movie “Thelma and Louise” just popped into my head.
Or how about ‘Bonnie and Clyde’? “We rob dupes!” ? And there’s always Abbott and Costello, where the steering wheel comes off in Lou’s hands. Oh, wait, maybe I’m confusing that with The Three Stooges driving scene. Damn, my memory isn’t what it used to be (and what it used to be wasn’t terrific either).
OMG, we’re tracking! I just posted the same thing without having read your comment.
Now that’s some great OT powers, Aqua! I’m impressed!
Yes, its Advance Mag-worthy, don’t you think? Better even than finding my car keys last month..
I finally saw the commercial with Leah Remini, she’s so real,you can’t help but like her. The new Aftermath season 2 is August 15th yes yes yes, Mike and Leah are just amazing, I love the fact that Mike know so much about the wicked shite that they’ll stoop to!
You guys are doing something great here especially with the tough subjects that you’re dealing with,
I pray for the survivors of child abuse, sexual abuse and all the good people who are trapped in scientology just to keep their families together!
I just went to add the new season to my DVR schedule and noticed they’re re-running some Season 1 shows starting 8 August. As my service only goes 2 weeks into the future, I’ve only the one episode, “golden era”, scheduled. Ah well, this too will pass (the hiatus between seasons). In the meantime, they’re rerunning “King of Queens”, which I can finally watch. Originally, I thought “queens” referred to gay cross-dressers, which still is a massive turn-off for me; I STILL can’t get ElCon’s prejudices out of the way after all these years
I also had never watched the King of Queens because I thought it was about homos. And, although I have AIDS, I was never onto homos.
It’s about Queens , the geographic location or burrough or suburb or city in NY
Yes, I figured that out about a month ago.
Dave,
Valley Tough:
The cloud has lifted from the Sherman Oaks neighborhood from which your Mission blew. Just one question: Why did they leave all of their Birthday Game trophies (displayed through the back ally window)behind? Where they too embarrassed to have trophies that said ‘Sherman Oaks’ at their new Van Nuys location (one of the hairiest parts of the San Fernando Valley armpit)?
For sure, for sure, the valley girls and Sherman Oaks will continue to flourish and prosper. But will the hangers-on chiropractor and family attorney follow your Mission to the run-down location in the hairiest part of the armpit?
They left their Birthday Game trophies behind?!!
Must not be worth a lot.
Oh, well. The Birthday Game is a collosal joke, anyway.
When I joined the SO in 79, I quickly became of the idea if one was not in the SO like we were, they were dilletants like what LRH was talking about in KSW. They had a nice life, while we slaved day and night so that they could go up the Bridge, knowing full well that we did not have a chance in hell of making it outselves. Anyone who, already on staff who would leave staff before the planet was cleared would be guilty of ” Desertion in the face of the enemy, a capital offense during wartime. And it was certainly wartime; we were fighting the toughest war anyone had ever fought.
Dead Men,
Hangs Head In Shame Alert:
I laughed reading your post. When I was in, as a public (I was always a public, never staff or SO) I believed that anyone who joined the Sea Org was someone who didn’t want to work, who would get 3 meals a day and a roof over the head and some clothes while at the same time being able to boss all the rest of us around!
Look, I had no concept of what Sea Org life was like, of what SO members had to endure! NO clue!
For many, many years I didn’t even know that they worked 80 or more hours a week. Had no idea that their short tempers and what I interpreted as intolerance for CL V staff and public could well be stemming from lack of food, sleep, unreal orders, make wrongs, SRAs and other punishments.
Therefore, I really disliked them, mostly because I thought they were slackers who gave themselves credit for a huge sacrifice of their lives for the sake of Planetary Clearing when in fact they were there because they DIDN’T want to work, just wanted to boss everyone else around. Privately, I thought they joined because they wouldn’t be able to work anywhere and didn’t want to anyway! OMG!
My sympathies were ALL with the Class V org staff who I saw as ABUSED by the SO!
I had NO idea of how Sea Org members were being abused. Of course, their attitudes, didn’t exactly communicate that they were victims, but still, the outpoint was missing applicable data. I didn’t have it so I dubbed it in myself.
It wasn’t until I started reading Marty’s original blog that I learned what the Sea Org was really like, and what its members endured.
I was amazed, horrified. Everything that didn’t make sense before made perfect sense now, and I made my plans to leave. I knew I could never support an organization that was so sick at its core as to mistreat human beings this way.
To all of you ex-SO – I’m sorry for the way I used to think of you.
I was so wrong. Utterly uninformed and unfairly pejorative of the people in the cult who were suffering the most. Far more than the CL V org staff were suffering. Far more. I should have perceived this somehow but did not. I had to read about it, time and again, all the stories, the incredible stories of cruelty and injustice and abuse, for months on Marty’s old blog. Over and over, the same concept – no caring, no consideration, no respect – nothing! People in there treated like garbage. Well, I got informed. Better late than never, as they say. And here I am, and here I’ll stay, until this horror show is over. And it WILL be over.
My guess is that the current SO members actually have it worse.
Aquamarine: As Darth Vader said:
APOLOGY ACCEPTED, ADMIRAL.
LOL! Thank you 🙂
Dead Men, the SO members look down on staff members. Staff members look down their collective noses at public. Is this what they call the blame game?
OSD:
I was at FSO and Freewinds only so I had no contact with lower staff members for the entirety of the 80’s and 90’s.
Bill, you succinctly encapsulated the mindset, the brainwashed idea that was implanted into the SO which made them stay for billions of years, for lifetimes in the SO. This sense of urgency and doom coupled with “it is your duty to save all mankind…” was what lured them in and kept them there even after they saw the outpoints and discrepancies and injustices and lies. Wow, it’s a hard thing to try to fight. I hope some of the SO now have a wake up and get out. I hope my own kids get out.
See Dear Cindy, Thank you for your comment and validation. I say validation because it says in KSW ” Win or die in the attempt”.
This was what was asked of me as a staff member and I delivered what was needed and wanted. I was well thought of on the ship. Captain Mike Napier told one of my juniors “Straass would lay down his life for this ship”. I would have, too, without a second thought. Unfortunately, no one can deliver what they want forever. Meat bodies need sleep and sometimes medical treatment. I probably averaged 5 hrs of sleep per night. With sleep apnea, which you have ; also it was probably 2 effective hours of sleep a night. Throw in HIV AIDS and no medical treatment and death is imminent.
I do not regret any of it and I probably should. Does that make me insane?
I think that the reason they (we) don’t get out is that they have no will left. They are just machines run by the organization. That is why they are against 2Ds etc. They don’t want “their” machine being corrupted by another viewpoint. They can not allow their property to have any allegence to anyone else such as a family member.
What the heck is vanguard..
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-gone-status-crazy/
Thank you anon
Vanguard is a large canvas that goes on a van to protect it from the sun.
Errrr….why couldn’t Mike remember if it was ’84 or ’85? Did they actually contact him (there are no direct quotes) or did they just dig up this picture and post it without his knowledge? They seem happy enough to be at some amusement park, but what has that to do with Scientology? Or are they just happy to be Ex-Directors?
I think they may be at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn MI. FWIW
OT 8’s have been told for decades that in order to get OT 9 & 10 (which have never existed) that they need to push Miscavige’s flavor of the month. If there is still an OT 8 that hasn’t figured that out by now ……
Odd, I was just thinking something along the same lines. Why are people forced to beg for dollars at all? If Dumvid Miscavige actually had staff members that actually had a product worth delivering and the people who delivered the product were allowed to receive the product themselves and be more able, wouldn’t there be people lined up outside their doors begging for it?
Oh, Valerie, that would make too much sense! That’s against DM’s “Code of Horror”!!!
The, Code of Horror just makes too much sense! We need to dumb it down…
REALLY good one 🙂
Vanguard?? I imagine it is one more meaningless status. When I first saw a list of IAS statuses a few years back I thought it was a bad taste idea from our executive director. Poor deluded people. All the money they give will simply buy MacAlans scotch for little Davey, hotel bills for old twinkling Yingling, and some cash for private detectives who accomplish nothing of worth. All this doesn’t make the world a better place. It is just using tax exempt money to tear up families and keep the lie of The thriving cult of greed being a bona ride religion.
It sez they are now Vanguards…so maybe that’s below Loyal Officer, above Directors. Isn’t there also Ambassadors too? I don’t know what any of that means….titles are important I guess?
Bingo! Barbet. It’s all about EGO!
I don’t understand why the guy on the left in the picture is wearing a woman’s hat. I guess that is why they are giggling.
Like, it’s not a guy – but you knew that, right? You meant to ask why Mary is wearing Ed’s shirt, right? Well, there was this bit about “the shirt off one’s back” taken literally by the Vanguard reg…..
Errata: Mike’s shirt
I didn’t notice the names in the article but just looked at the pic and thought they were both men. My bad.
Me too! I thought they were 2 guys.
I believe that’s a woman it says Mike and Mary Campbell? They are getting old so they will out on the streets soon,panhandling, poor brainwashed souls!
Rather than forking overl that money to the cult Mary should have “flowed” it for some chin lipo and a decent wig. Meow.
With “SUPERPOWERS” comes the condition of “SUPER SUCKIENESS” …..Which allows the midget to walk all over you (and your family members).
These promo pieces from scientology…
If I was a practicing member, there has to be some moment of epiphany.
What’s the point? It’s a dying organization.
Why does it matter? The only ones benefiting are David Miscavige and his celebrity useful idiots.
Am I happy? Who could be? Scientologists have been milked dry financially, or even enslaved or imprisoned.
Can I even trust my fellow scientologists? If one opens up about true feelings, expect to be KR’d, called on the carpet, or disassociated from family.
How can anyone take these fluffy pieces of propaganda from scientology seriously.
?
Mike, dude, you gotta get an feature.
Like what the f***, Mike. All I want is a way to make my profound statements be “spelling-error-free”.
When they engrave my mug on a mountain in the Black Hills of South Dakota for being a key member of the crew that defeated the evil of scientology, with you and Leah and Aaron, and Sheldon, etc etc, our heads carved in a mountaintop for eternity, my only hope is that I didn’t misspell any profundity that dropped from my Holy Orifice that didn’t allow “editing”.
Cheers, brother.
… ” a feature, not “an” feature.
See what I mean?
Typos hapen.
Oops, mea culpa. My comment was misdirected; can’t delete it (okay: I don’t know how, truthe be told).
Are they happy? They’ll tell you they are.
They ALWAYS tell you how happy they are.
Their staff jobs, wog jobs, relationships, marriages, kids, their courses, their auditing – everything is fine. and dandy. Their lives are terrific. Always. Its a cult thing.
If you’re a good Scientology Cultie, you can’t tell anyone you’re unhappy – only your auditor or your Ethics Officer. Maybe not even your spouse.
Whether you’re a public, staff or SO, its “No case on post”. Strictly enforced for staff and SO.
Even if your “post” is just being someone’s friend, you don’t unload. your problems. Hint at them, maybe. Share that, “there’s some stuff that still needs to be worked on” (which, of course, is due to be handled by their next Bridge action), , But do NOT unload. That’s “Out-PR” – cultspeak for “bad publicity for Scientology”.
There is no such thing as an unhappy Scientologist.
Scientology public, staff and SO are ALWAYS flourishing and prospering.
Most especially when they’re not.
Their ability to project a highly believable “Everything’s great and I’m so happy” facade is a wondrous thing.
On a par with their skill at love-bombing.
On the other hand, maybe they weren’t all that skillful, and instead, I was just that dumb 🙂
The jury’s still out on that one.:)
“Stand Tall And Sing It Out Loud; I Was An Idiot And I’m Proud”.
Ya gotta laugh, right? 🙂
“…who can forget the stories of OT VIIIs being strong-armed into “leading their Ideal Orgs?”
Oh, this is an easy one! And simple, too. Just don’t ever do OTVIII!
With no sarcasm, it certainly was a disincentive for me.
“Why” is possibly the most unanswered question about scientology. The countless questions asked – both here and on many other sites, blogs and other media – are never really answered other than “money” as the reason. Or, simply, insanity.
Which one is Mike?
This is just getting so pathetic that I almost feel sorry for the poor person who created this promo. In addition to the excellent questions Mike (Rinder) raised, and looking over the grammatical errors of the promo (“recognixe”), does the Detroit Org not know the exact year when Mike Campbell first became the ED (or “Ed”) there, and just have to generalize that it was “around 84 – 85)? Even if they don’t have documentation on his actual time of service (they seem to document every damn thing else), shouldn’t they have just asked Mike Campbell about this directly? Or am I missing something here as a never-in that would explain a good justification for not knowing this?
Sorry to point out the little details like this when there are much larger issues with this organization, but for a group that seems to care so much about absolute perfection in every little thing, some of this stuff just gets more and more embarrassing.
Mick: Did you think that our current school system actually teaches grammar? Or spelling? Or, even more important, context? And DM NEVER COMPLETED HIS SCHOOLING! So the guy at the top, the one who “has to do everything himself” is naturally guiding the ship into the shoals…and blaming everyone else for his ignorance.
Lou, hugging and kissing DM:
” Darling, you’re never more adorable than when you’re dishing out SRAs and blaming everyone else for your own mistakes. It really turns me on”.
DM:
“Thanks, hon. Let’s turn in early”.
Yes, Mike, the errors are inexcusable in a PR piece, as they would be in a resume. The fact that no one would – or could – proofread it and make the corrections speaks volumes about the state of the cult.
Mick, As we both know, sometimes it is the SMALLEST thing that “sinks the battleship”……something like “Oh, we can fix that later, it’s not that important”……
Somewhere down the line, the smallest infraction is going to blow up in their faces & that alone is going to cause the organization to circle the drain & sink itself……
Hey David…..better get those magnifying glasses & microscopes outs….somethings I wrong somewhere.
These poor fools are cackling to the high heavens because they’re trying to have fun and make the best of an increasingly predatory and toxic environment.
Sad, it’s just sad.
I guess this begs the question as I’ve totally lost the plot in the translation of such things referenced as, ‘Detroit Tough’ in the context of 2 prior church executives with the combined ED experience of 4 possibly 5, maybe even 6 years (they seem awfully fuzzy about their employment history) – what does Scientology do again?
Thank you Mike. Scientology is completely tangled up in Lies, Falsehoods and unbelievably bad promo pieces. Detroit Tough more like Detroit Give Us More Money so the Ideal Orgs can pretend to be Ideal with the echoing of staff voices as the only sound. Newest Vanguards sounds like an invitation to spend time with a weeder,as in pulling weeds out in the blazing hot sun. And those 0T8s lost in space yet again.?
Hi Mike: This might sound like a silly question, but after all your years of service and devotion to Scientology and given the length of time you gave them, do you still consider yourself a Scientologist at heart?
No – trying to learn how to have a heart. That’s not scientology.
+ 100
Dear Mike…you have a heart ❤. A great, big, caring heart..
Mike you have a BIG heart, a BRAVE heart that will continue to heal BIG time with the help of all the wonderful work you are doing with Leah, through this blog and through your wonderful family. I do understand what you are saying however and the cement around mine is almost gone. Only took 35 years. Subtle stuff and hard to dig out or have come to the surface…but it does get dug.. and it does come up to the surface and then the sun shines it to a fine glow. xoxox JL
Hey! Having a heart is something the cult guards against. When someone joins the SO, not only do they take their passport, they take their heart too. And they never give back…
🙂
I know you had no heart the day you came to my Disbursement Office and demanded to see Ivan’s pay record. I had to take my feet out of my 5 gal water ‘a/c’. Then you further degraded me since I did not recognize you. LRH PPRO you said in your civies. Then you marched up to Ivan O and the AOLA Exec council and proceeded to tell them about their barefoot Treasury Secretary. I cried for hours 🙁 I’m glad you are getting a heart back. Thank you.
Sorry you lived through that, Cece. But Mike is a different man now and I’m sure he feels bad for things he did while holding that post and having to be in the winning SO valence in order to survive in the SO. Your post brings up Ivan Obelinski. Word was that he and the head treasury person (not you), blew together and had been having an illicit 2D, and that they embezzled money from the org. That was what one SO member privately told me years later. Is that what happened? I heard Ivan is out of the church now, but not talking much on the blogs. Is he an Ex or Indie? What is he doing nowadays?
The lie about him and Alison embezzling money is no different than the lies they spread about everyone. Neither Ivan nor Alison are Scientologists, nor are they together (though they do share an adorable daughter)
Mike, no one would be trying to learn how to have a heart unless he already had one.
That is absolutely right, Aquamarine.
From what I’ve seen, you’re well on your way Tin Man!
LOL! The Tin Man – I thought of that too! And how Dorothy would get out the oil can so he wouldn’t rust when he teared up. And the sage advice the Wizard gave him…
Everybody, let’s send Mike a heart from all of us!
Our Tin Man!
Mike, you have more heart and guts in your little pinky than DM (or scientology at all) has demonstrated in all of his life.
+ 1000.
This short comment touched me, Mike. I’m trying to have a heart, too. God bless you and all the work you’re doing.
When you broke down on Mary Kahn’s episode, I think the world was able to see the kind of heart you had. That was a very touching moment, along with one of the moments during a preview of season 2 on your Memorial Day special.
And ultimately, I think that every single one of us (formers, never-ins, everyone, including me) would do well to try to learn to have a bigger heart.