Truth in advertising? From scientology? Must be inadvertent.
There is plenty of evidence that there is no such thing as an “OT” despite what Hubbard claimed.
But now, it seems we are getting closer to the truth in the scientology claims about this. Now we are seeing “virtual OT’s”..
I wonder if there is really any difference between a “virtual” OT and a fake OT? Or one that is a “mental image picture” or even just pure imagination?
These virtual OT “NCB’s” (New Civilization Builders – they actually use this term with a straight face) don’t seem to be able to get their act together enough to finalize a DATE. So they just promote it as a virtual event — if an event happens in the ether and nobody sees it, did it really happen?
I wonder why the OT’s who have failed to get the Toronto org renovated after 20 years (they didn’t even have to buy a new building…) are considered “opinion leaders” for the “OT’s” in Vancouver. They are actually going to show them how it’s done?
And we have some virtual way to happiness too… Designed to get children sucked into scientology. Isn’t that special?
I live in Toronto and I walked by the old building a couple of weeks ago. It’s still boarded up. No renovations have started. It’s ridiculous. Miscavige could have renovated that building 10 times over I’d be really wanted a nice org in Toronto. I mean how many Scientologists could there be in Toronto and how much money do they have to give?
Virtual OTs, yes…
Those words made me think back to the time period when my belief in scientology and the validity of OT as something achievable was slowly eroding.
There were certain events that hastened the crumbling of my faith in Scientology that were more pivotal than others. Usually these events were really small, but they always blindsided me, completely unexpected.
For example, there was a line from a song by Alanis Morissette, that really got me thinking. The line was:
“And what it all boils down to,
Is that no one’s really got it figured out just yet…”
Little nuggets of truth like that were far more damaging to Scientology’s hold over me then any “psych conspiracy lies“.
But this term “virtual OT“ conjured up a recollection of something that happened decades ago when I was squarely on the runway to getting onto my OT levels.
I saw a book in my boss’s office, something like “The Zen of the Common Man“ (although that wasn’t the title. Wish I could remember it).
My sense of curiosity overrode my nervousness of not wanting to have to divulge any possibility of “other practices“ in my upcoming OT eligibility.
So I grabbed the book and flipped through the pages and landed on this story:
A Zen novice looked perplexed one day and his Zen master asked him what was wrong. The novice said, “Master, how will I know if I achieve real enlightenment or just the illusion of enlightenment? “
The Zen master replied, “perhaps there is no difference.”
That struck an uncomfortable chord deep down in that part of me that knew the state of OT as described by Hubbard was illusory. I hurriedly put the book away and put it out of my mind because I was not yet done being in a cult.
Virtual OT.
If you grasped the meaning of that tale then you got all that is there to get about going “OT”. I think Mike is right that we should be worried that Scientology is luring peopke in with their Virtual speak. There are very incredible things being found that exists in modern science. One of which is multiple planes of existance that have properties unlike our own. LRH claimed to have some kind of yellow brick road to navigate your way through. But as the OT’s on Leah and Mike’s Aftermath series explained it doesn’t deliver. Don’t let the myth of turning into a ball of fire keep you from exploring but don’t let the Scientologists get away with “mixing practices” by tying in virtual reality like some kind of Weird Science remix from the 80’s either!
Otto not only wears glasses (as somebody who has reached Clear should not have to) but has one eyed blacked out, because of whatever irreparable defect (not exactly at complete cause over MEST).
Otto the OTVI, according to https://www.truthaboutscientology.com/ in August 2018.
Perhaps complete cause over MEST has been promised to him at OTVIII.
If you spray cold alcohol on a virtual OT they go unconscious.
Wynski quipped:
“If you spray cold alcohol on a virtual OT they go unconscious.”
No need, they’re already in that state.
Oops! I only saw it now. The way of happiness for children! It’s that place in Tampa where they audit children.
I wouldn’t give him a son or granddaughters for all the gold in the world.
I imagine the scene. I’m going to take my granddaughter to this school. She got into the car serious and detached. I ask her how it goes and she tells me that she has just realized that she is a quadrillion year old thetan and that I am only a body owned by another thetan and I am not her “grandfather”.
And that as soon as she is in the age she will join the sea org and it is better that we do not stop her otherwise we all end up declared SP.
Sadly yes, you got that scenario straight. Shout it from the rooftops…. Scientology is a TRAP! They are just feeding the child eating beast sacrifices or they may as well be like ancient civilizations.
Loreli. Thank you. I always said and I repeat it that scn is an implant by definition. When a teen or anyone else gets these ideas he would see parents and other people just like aliens. Anything that is worth and genuine about family and life gets sistematicly and voluntarily “decontaminated”.
I do believe we all can help people with our comments and experiences to stay away from this ‘implant station’ of wrong beliefs. Do well.
I see this promo as another example of scatterbrained scios flailing at another scatterbrained solution. Faced with an emergency situation for which they can offer no real remedy, they’ve become desperate chickens with no heads, scuttling around in random directions.
I grew up in Silicon Valley in its formative years before the name became popular. There were a lot of smart people who were creative problem solvers that could formulate solutions over, under, and around any obstacle, be it technical or administrative. Nowadays we know it as “thinking outside the box.”
The hapless COS is forever condemned to stick to Hubbard’s rambling and irrational script. Improvisation is not an option. On this Memorial Day, it’s worth noting that the US military during WWII had a distinct advantage over Japan and Germany. US Officers were allowed some latitude to operate outside of the established chain of command if they were confronted with a situation that current orders didn’t seem to apply, and there was no time to get formal authorization. Conversely, the Axis powers followed a strict philosophy that didn’t allow for independent thought or action.
I give you the Church of Scientology: An army of rigid, inflexible conscripts who know little else than how to follow orders. And sometimes they don’t even do that very well. I think it’s been said and written that the church’s prime directive is to “deliver what’s promised.” I submit that there’s a more fundamental mandate in place. Blind obedience.
Yes, the cult is desperate, desperate, desperate to hold onto their power over a dwindling few members who have the money to afford auditing. Like drug pushers afraid that their addicts will somehow overcome their addictions if they don’t keep actively pushing and pressing, they’re advertising a newer, tastier brand of koolaid now. And you know what? Some of these sheeple will fall for this virtual BS. Not too many, I suspect, and not for long, I hope. For several reasons this virtual crap is not sustainable for Scientology. But it will be grabbed by some koolaid addicts as a lifeline, for a while. I wish I didn’t believe this, but…
Chris, the other thing about scn is that slaves are a VERY inefficient & ineffective way to get things done. IMO, that’s part of why the USSR disintegrated so quickly: No one had any freedom to think, especially. No one really wanted to be in that situation and had to be locked IN. The democracies, by in large, have to build fences, etc. keep slaves like that OUT.
NO DATE IN PROMOTIONS: They often do that when they don’t want protesters such as myself to show up!
Laughing. But I am sure you will find a way to show up.
Absolutely correct, AGP. Those bastards are cowards as well as anything else. I don’t think that they would want to see me either; the Captain Freewinds, who technically outranks DM, told my then wife that I would be DEAD in 2002.
I have nothing against the man; he was my fuehrer on the ship but even Field Marshal Erwin Rommel knew when it was time to end his loyalty to the fuehrer.
I would be honored if I could be made worthy to protest with you.
I could possibly be of some use; a few years after I left the ship I ran into Joan Heller, my last auditor on the ship and the OTVIII Review auditor. She freaked when she saw me in the AOLA elevator. I said” I guess you did not expect to see me again”. and she replied ” No, I really didn’t.”
If you have any protest’s coming up, please let me know.
It is strange with all the talk of OTs and spirits that they have such low confront of ghosts.
I am currently in San Diego.
Bill Strass said, in part:
“I would be honored if I could be made worthy to protest with you.”
IMO, you’re MORE than ‘worthy’, Bill. Keep your ear to the ground and report anything you think might be of interest in our campaign to rid the world of that scourge falsely calling itself a religion.
Jere: Most of the datavI get currently comes from this blog.
However, when I left the Freewinds I said to the receptionist: “I’LL BE BACK”. I would like to go back there before I die just to see the look on the Captain’s face when he sees me alive.
However, a number of people in the SO who predicted my death died already. So I am afraid that the Captain will get away with it by dying before I see him.
Here’s my virtual donation! 💩
LOL!
Haha. Good one!!!
“Virtual” is just another way of saying not-real. In that sense ALL of scn is “virtual”, all in the members’ minds and embellished to “keep up with the Joneses”. ‘Your’ OT wins and powerz can’t be less than the others’, of course. In the real world, their gains are negative: lessening of their ability to actually observe and deal with what is real. Instead, they cling to illusions and dreams, a/k/a hallucinations, created to make themelves feel better for brief moments.
Oh, but jere, they are SO powerful, these OTs, don’t you know? They are “kick ass OTs”. Of course, they still get sick and die before their time with wasting diseases like cancer. They still get heart disease and arteriosclerosis and might need a Quadruple Bipass every do often if they overdo it on the artery-clogging junk food. And they might not have the self discipline to stop smoking. As regards finance they don’t seem to manage their money too well – they frequently don’t apply LRH’s own finance policies to themselves…I personally know 4 of them who wrecked their credit and declared personal bankruptcy in violation of LRH’s finance tech, but in any event, NEVER MIND, they’ve got that CERT on the wall, OK? And that’s all they need and that’s all ANYone needs to know. That Cert on the wall says they are powerful- and so they are – so there! To hell with me and my invalidative illustrations as to why they are no such thing!
Aqua replied:
“Oh, but jere, they are SO powerful, these OTs, don’t you know? They are “kick ass OTs”.
Yup! SO powerful that a loveable big puppy is suppressive enough to defeat every one of them just by being in their fair city. And his human … Well, best not go there.
I so wish someone in the know, who knows “tech” (Hubbard’s quackery, top to bottom) and who knows Sea Org history, would interview, quick before they croak, the old Class 12s, including interviewing Karen Delacarrier.
The subject of Scientology, as laughable as it is, the actual thoughts and beliefs, of those Class 12s, the highest level “ever” practitioners who did duty with Hubbard’s “case supervision” as Flag Apollo era “auditors” (auditing is the pseudo-therapy quackery of L. Ron Hubbard’s) they still, their views, are so vital to history telling for all the decades to come, for this subject, SCientology.
I wish KKaren de la Carrier, herself, would interview the still alive Class 12s who jumped ship years ago, who ought tell their hindsights about it all.
Really,, before they all croak, I wish the Class 12s who are still alive, would be feted, somehow pay their airfares, come to Flag Clearwater, and reminisce about things.
There are some Class 12s in the area, some of the old 12s were “top management” and top executives, as Hubbard wished of the “top managers” to themselves become the top of the line line “auditors” or “tech” (Hubbard’s subject quackery) experts, to be the leaders.
The actual laying out of the practitioner status, one’s “Staff Status” and one’s Technical (quackery) status, was to be the highest possible, for the highest leaders of the movement.
There is the all time famous Flag Ship Order, which was my BIBLE LRH order, about LRH’s expectation of who the leaders of Scientology ought to be, in terms of their training in the quackery, and their training in the administrative writings of Hubbard’s.
That goal, ought to be somehow told to the full membership of SCientology, for the membership to be made responsible to themselves become top level “auditors” and “case supervisors” but that is such a long long slow almost impossible goal.
And then in the end of the day, should any human beings be driven personally to aspire to be these top Class 12 practitioners, and become Staff Status 8 (of which NO one alive, barring maybe Greg Wilhere, is a Staff Status 7 or 8, for real in Hubbard’s own qualifications’ terms), it is just hard to even bring up Hubbard’s goals, and the whole unreality of the OT spiritual attainments, is it all worth it.
I would love to know of Kerry Gleason, and of Leon Steinberg, and of Karen, and of Murray Chopping, and any other Class 12s of the old Hubbard era “pass” status, what their views of the whole subject and administration of Scientology today.
Karen, I’d love Karen and Kerry to do a podcast on their views in hindsight of Scientology, both are Class 12s, and Kerry had more LRH orders to Kerry, than Miscavige ever got.
Leon Steinberg also, I’d love to hear his hindsights.
You should do the interviews Chuck. You know so much and you lived it and have the contacts.
At the very least, make up a list of questions that you would ask and send it to them. Karen would definitely re-post the answers.
As far as the “leaders” of scn having high qualifications on both the “tech” and admin sides, LRH could only admire the sheer audacity of the Kid’s® assumption of what little power there is in scientology. “The Kid” has NO qualifications other than his Machiavellian machinations. What remains of the scientology Ron built is not long for this world — or any other.
Partnering with NOI, of course, would outrage Hubbard as nothing else could.
Chuck,
Very good post and I think it would be great if more information was available from the Class 12’s. They were Hubbard’s elite. I have been talking about OT VIII for over twelve years and very few who completed the level have come forward. I often wonder about that but concluded that most people just do not want to go public.
George. I thought it’s possible that many of these OT 8s have had problems in the long run. I don’t mean just physical but mostly spiritual.
At the beginning of the 90s I witnessed a chat between a new OT 8 (I think be was Paolo Mieli or Melis I don’t remember) and the FSC I/C Tito Mazza (OT 7). Paolo said that OT 8 was the top and that afterwards there was nothing else. Tito disagreed and they discussed it for a while calmly, each insisting on their idea. I know that few years later Paolo joins SO in Flag.
My point is that I had the idea more of a personal view/experience than a standard attainment.
This is true Chuck. Hubbard did say that the level was “for you”. The C/S was open ended so the E/P was non-standard. My training before Scientology was in Buddhism. I spent over fourteen months in the Army in South Korea during the View Nam War and was exposed to a lot of monks. I made visits to Japan, Thailand, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and Russia. I studied Chinese history with a passion.
After the Army I spent months in Europe studying Christianity in Rome.
When I got onto OT VIII, I immediately picked up that Hubbard was totally wrong and “full of beans”.
Hubbard had not even a clue about the difference between Christianity and Eastern Religion. He was so ignorant in fact that I totally rejected him forever and began laughing. Hubbard was the least qualified person I ever encountered who started a religion. In my early days in Scientology, I went along with him because he made so many promises. Hubbard was totally wrong about his theory of the Vedic Hymns and their origin in Scientology. He makes a total fool out of himself when he claims that he was the Buddha’s teacher. The texts clearly point out that the Buddha had no teacher.
His early seniors are even mentioned by name and have no connection to Hubbard.
I laughed all the way home to Miami on the plane after OT VIII. I escaped from the Freewinds by “acting”. They had my passport, after all.
Hubbard teacher of Buddha? Yea George this is a good one. He was so lost in his own stories
Additionally buddihsm and zen say clearly that one isn’t something or someone. One is just the consciousness that observes. It is the mind that always needs to label.
He was a bit away from the truth.
Chuck yes this would be quite a contribute to the real history of the cult. Damn.
Chuck: It has been a few years since I talked to Karen (de La Carriere) but I can assure you that although I believe that she knows that DM is a cockaroach who needs to be brought to justice, I believe that she still holds LRH to a much higher level. She has a personalized license plate on her car which says ” I love LRH”.
They just keep asking for money. It is the only mantra they know.
These OTs and NCB are just regges. They should also know (supposedly) who has the money and who doesn’t. Might as well address those instead of forcing anyone to attend with some “latest news” they can’t miss (and that almost everyone knows is the usual PR and money demand).
I thank heaven for not being in that madness anymore.
I saw, even before the pandemic, that division 6 (new people) no longer seems to interest at anyone.
Only and always events and money for ideal orgs and IAS.
It really became alien stuff.
Loosing observed”… money. It is the only mantra they know.
It’s the only thing that matters, according to Hubbard, and reinforced by Miscavige’s tiny fists of fury.
Jere thanks. Yes… Money money money. What a damn scam. One has to have been in to know it. Do well.
vir·tu·al /ˈvərCH(o͞o)əl/
almost or nearly as described, but not completely or according to strict definition.
In other words, just another $cieno scam.
Zee Moo. Just perfect.
Please, please, please tell me somebody recorded the “Virtual O.T. Event” from San Francisco. It sounds like a classic.
In St Louis the first step of ending the lock down began last Monday. Stores and restaurants and businesses could open. I have driven by the mission several times a week just to get out of the house. There have been the same 2 cars there throughout the lockdown and occasionally there was another car or two. It is interesting that over the last week there have still been the same 2 cars but not more than 1 or 2 more. So far it does not look like business as usual when there are normally 10-17 cars in the parking lot during the day.
Gordon observed:
“normally 10-17 cars in the parking lot during the day.”
REALLY!? That would, in my estimation, have made STL the busiest of scn orgs in the WORLD. In reality, NO scn org or mission has been profitable for decades.
“A panel of upstat OTs”
The not-upstat OTs are too busy at RPF?
Exactly! Or else they are SPs! Oh yeah, the tech is PERFECT alright! lol
After OT VIII on the Freewinds in 1988, I concluded that there was no state called “OT” as Hubbard defined it. Even if one looks at all twenty seven “OT” levels, the highest you can get is “Sereneity of Beingness”. Almost all Eastern religions such as Hindu and Buddhism have that state in meditation but it is not “OT” as Hubbard defined it. I spent almost seven years near a Buddhist Vihara and asked the monks to find me all of the references in Pali which describe anything similar to the state of OT. The first thing they told me was that the Buddha did not suggest that monks even study this area. It was just more important to just meditate. There are eight levels of meditation and the texts are very clear that the Buddha attained his state at the fourth level. There are a few references to “supernormal” powers in the Buddhist texts but no one can validate that they are real events. But even these are not OT as Hubbard defined it. The other point I discovered was that Hubbard was 100% wrong in his OT theory of past lives when he compared his theory to Original Buddhism. Hubbard was totally confused and was actually reading mis-translations of texts written hundred of years after the death of the Buddha. Personally, the only thing I really believe is that Hubbard is now in “Avici” which is the lowest Buddhist hell.
The poster looks like a B movie, halfway between science fiction and thriller.
Personally I am VIRTUALLY amazed by what they are trying to do. Such as climbing mirrors.
Ever since people distanced themselves thanks to the lock down, I think many have “returned to the present time” and they know very well that these webinars have the sole purpose of extorting money from them.
There are no more fairy tales to listen to.
Somewhat Off Topic. But I just wanted to mention – primarily to Loosing My Religion – that PBS Frontline recently produced a segment titled something like, “The Coronavirus in Italy”. It followed several front line health care workers in Italy and much of it was very heartbreaking.
Unfortunately, there was almost zero English spoken and I found it very difficult to follow the meaning of what was going on. I did understand that many of the front line nurses were broken hearted because most of the patients they got to know wound up suffering terribly and dying without hardly any chance they could be saved.
But there were plenty of good points made about the relationship between government and the consequences of govt failing to apply good responses to attempts to deal with this virus. I just wish they would have provided better closed captioning because I found it extremely difficult to understand what was being said.
I just wanted to make certain that LMR knew he could find this one-hour segment by searching.
Here is the title of the segment. It was Episode 11 in Season 20 of the PBS Frontline program. The title was, “Inside Italy’s Covid War”. If you have not yet seen it, I would suggest you search for it in Youtube. If you can’t find it, I certainly am willing to give Mike permission to give you my email address and if you send me email, I will tell you how to find this TV program.
Frontline S20E11 Inside Italys Covid War 720p PBS WEB-DL AAC2 0 H 264- [eztv]
Oh My! I just went to Youtube and searched for it and found it there. If you have any difficulty, please ask someone for help and if you still can’t find it, pls ask Mike to give you my email address.
Skyler. Thank you so much. I checked on PBS site but isn’t been shown anymore. There were just few trailers. I saw the one where a 18 years guy had the lungs fully infected and the doctor telling the story was about to cry because she knew he was badly in the shit. To be honest I would cry too.
I do a deeper search on YouTube. Thank you.
Please Sky send me the link of the one you saw on YouTube