Here is the text of an email sent out by John Spagnola to as many people as he could.
Of course, though he claims this is all “Fully funded” by the “US Army” he is asking for “donations” for “additional expenses.” What a shock…
Dear Friends,
The Purification Detoxification Program just got a full okay from the US Army to move ahead and do an official medical pilot by applying this technology to Veterans!
And it is funded by the US Army!!!
I’m working on the Veterans purification detox project below and wanted to know if you were aware of any veterans who still had adverse effects that they would like to address and handle.
The project will focus on veterans from 1990-1991 during Desert Storm and Desert Shield. However, if you know of veterans from other wars, let me know, so they can be considered. The project will be run in Annapolis Maryland.
Even if you are not located in Maryland, veterans you may know might consider coming for the program and staying to complete it, as it is free to them; and more importantly, because it could alleviate both mental and physical manifestations that they have not been able to resolve.
This is an excellent opportunity to help these warrior heroes get their lives back!!
Although the program is funded by the Army, there are many thousands of dollars that are needed for other expenses for the veterans such as travel. and related expenses. If you are willing to help with these expenses, this would be greatly appreciated and it would be a power push to this valuable project!
Please let me know.
Johnny Spag
727-446-0200
But it seems Johnny Spag might have gotten a little carried away….
Ruh-roh.
Here is his NEXT email:
From: John Spagnola <spag@gte.net>
Date: Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 1:35 PM
Subject: Re Detoxification Study
To:Dear Friends:
The email that I sent you yesterday contained some errors, due to misunderstanding on my part.The Army has not “OK’d” the detoxification program. A totally independent study has been funded by the Department of Defense, under the direction of three Universities.The goal is to evaluate how detoxification might benefit Gulf War veterans. No one in the military has already concluded anything about the program, only that it is worthy of study.The work being done is under the direction of the University researchers. I have no official connection with it – I’m just a private citizen who cares about our veterans. Recruitment for the study is under the direction of theresearchers.Please delete the email I sent and do not forward it. If you have already forwarded it, please forward this second message to them so they have the correct information.Best,Johnny Spag
727-446-0200
On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 LD Sledge wrote:
Yes, he is, but we just talked after I sent my first one out and said that he is not supposed to ask for donos! And he is not to call it the Purif! Just some bureaucratic BS, but we do have 50 on a pilot.On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 xxxxx wrote:HI LD, thanks for this second email about the military and the Purif that Jon Spagnola was promoting. Is Johnny still asking for donations for that?On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 Ld Sledge wrote:This note is to clarify the previous email sent by Johnny Spag. My note indicated there were 70,000 but this is a pilot with 50 men and women.
I’ve known Johnny Spagnola for over 20 years. He naturally disconnected from me
when I publicly left the Co$.
John is a primary non staff fundraiser for CCHR and has been for as long
as I’ve known him. He is fast on the uptake to reg for money.
John is a good man and a being of good will. Probably one of the few still left in that
criminal organization. He knows with certainty that his eternity and that of the universe
resides in the success of the CoS. He is one of the willingly blind to what is going on.
I breaks my heart.
He truly believes that any delivery outside the CoS is completely squirrel. His is deliberately not looking.
Before I left I had a very long conversation with John, face to face where I laid out what I was finding
out about tech violations and alterations, alterations of books and deletions of material within LRH books,
lies told by the CoS not just to the public, which are sometimes viewed as
acceptable, but significant lies told to parishioners and staff. I held back to the end on what I considered at the time to be the most damning lies told, the truth surrounding LRH’s passing.
I asked him at that point if he wanted to know the truth about that. What I had found through
the examination of LRH’s wills, the ME report, the toxicology report etc.
He said he didn’t want to know and told me why. He was actively on Solo NOTs and would have to tell them everything
and he knew this would jeopardize his elig to remain on the level.
He didn’t see the glaring outpoint of his statement or he accepted it as the way it is.
If he reads this I hope he sees it now, although this seems a dim possibility.
John, the only place your eternity is going to be secured is outside the control and fear used by your church to keep you there and towing the line.
The very fear you expressed to me when you asked me not to tell you what I had found. Is this how LRH would have responded?
An organization that controls through fear is doing nothing more than dramatizing the very material it purports to run out, but is instead, running it in.
John, where does all the money go? I know CCHR runs on a shoe string, but just look at all the money that does come in to the Cos. Where does it all go?
Who is responsible for the epidemically bad PR scene of the CoS? All the Sp’s? Really? That’s not what LRH says. Where did this false data
come from? When you have a fleeting moment of lookingness and then dodge from it, you have just looked in the right spot and rabbited.
Why are no flags raised when DM says he found lost tech? Really? Then when he puts back what he took out he’s deemed a hero?
You never responded to two questions I put to you. Why was Mary Sue’s dedication removed from A History of Man and where is your friend Heber?
How long are you going to believe the story that he’s fine and on a special project?
I have done a lot of Bridge since leaving. I was despondent about ever being able to do the training I wanted to do
or the Bridge actions I wanted to do while still in. You know this well, we discussed it many times. I have now done them and continue to
do more. The Cos was the one stopping me from pursuing my Bridge. It wasn’t free out here.
I had to work for it and work at it, but it was available from highly trained and dedicated people, without the arbitrary stops.
I didn’t have to redo the student hat or retread this and that or jump through some other hoops. I only had to work at it. Isn’t that the way it should be?
Since leaving John, I completed all 3 L’s. What a tremendous boost that is. I have also completed the NOTs rundowns. It took me more time than LRH to complete it but I kept at it every day until it was done. During that same time I started on the BC studying the material there.
What an amazing amount of data on the track LRH discovered and laid out not to mention flushing out the auditing tech more and more.
Since leaving the COS I have expanded as a being by leaps and bounds and have gotten the Bridge I wanted and continue to do so.
I am not in fear of loosing my eternity, quite the contrary, I am embracing it and it is before me, beckoning.
I don’t look over my shoulder because of what I read in books, magazines, newspapers, the dreaded internet or with whom I associate. Oh sure, there were some difficulties in digesting
some of what is found and some adjustment and viewpoint changes do occur. That is the process of truth seeking.
One last question John. After all we have spoken about over the years, what could I possibly say that would require you to disconnect from me that I haven’t already expressed?
If you tell yourself you are disconnecting to help me see the light and return to the fold, think again. Why on earth would I return when all I was seeking is now available to me outside the clutches of the CoS. Since this is the case, the only reason to disconnect is to protect the ever shrinking enclave of Cos parishioners from the truth, which I might expose to view. This is the bubble you keep yourself trapped in.
I still love you John and wish you and your better half all the best. Say hello to her, secretly, for me.
ARC
Tim-S
Tim, what a gut wrenching letter to Johnny. All good points in it. He is under fear as are all on OT VII: fear of not reaching spiritual enlightenment and freedom, fear of being denied eligibility for it, fear of Solo Nots being taken from him, fear of excommunication, fear of disconnection, I could go on and on. In “Hymn of Asia” LRH says that it is up to each one of us to get our spiritual salvation, so don’t waste this brief breath in eternity and work on it. To me that means you look and find where the real tech is being delivered and go there and work hard and make it happen for yourself. I wish Johnny luck. He’ll need it.
Yeah so what ever happened with Criminon at Ensenada or the NY Detox Project? Right. Nothing.
The description of the study is posted at http://www.albany.edu/ihe/gulf.htm
It isn’t an independent study. The study is taking place at Severna Park, a Narconon facility in Maryland. http://www.drug-detox-rehab.org/stat…erna+Park.html
The co-investigator is Kathleen Kerr, director of Narconon Canada.
The study design seems quite bogus. Both the “experimental” and “control” group get the purif, and get tested before and after. The only difference is that the “experimental” group gets the purif right away, while the “control” group has to wait 4-6 weeks before they start the purif. They also exclude people with psychiatric conditions.
I can’t believe this got past peer review.
Mike – the pair of vultures in the photo above, could that be Lou and Dave?
In a bizarre way, I have incredible sympathy for Lou… and yes, I do deserve to be shouted down, here, possibly – I’m a never-in, but I have been vulnerable to a Christian cult when I was a teenager.
I think Lou is incredibly brainwashed. She has my sympathy. She’s a lifer, yes? And talk about someone who lives in a bubble!!! Good grief! I’ll bet she isn’t left alone for two seconds, ever, and her bed partner is COB! Can one even imagine that?! Ugh! What a bloody fate! This guy is why Shelly talked to the police after the Remini report and didn’t scream ‘HELP!’ – that’s how bad he is; imagine what he can do to a young lifer half his age! That psychopath, DM, has Lou isolated and warped her just as surely as he did it to Shelly, I’ll wager. There is no question that sociopathic personalities find each other, but it seems to me that Co$ turns people into sociopath-lites, at the least (Spaghetti’s email is case-in-point on the socio part).
Captain Tiny Boots is nearly at the end of his run, I hope, and I surely don’t hope that Lou goes with him when he flees with his hidden wealth. I hope he runs off to some far country in South America to seduce another set of women half his age, but remains in hiding. Woe unto those poor women though.. without a captive audience to soothe his psychopathy, what in the world will his outlet be?! I truly shudder to think. I mean, he matches his NECKTIES to ludicrously inappropriately grandiose stage settings!!! Where will Herr Dwarfenfurher find another adoration outlet when Co$ collapses?
Aside from Spagnola’s obvious foot bullet, I find it amusing that the critics rail about how Hubbard’s claims are all crap because they haven’t been scientifically evaluated and peer reviewed. Then when something does look like it’s going to get scientifically evaluated and peer-reviewed, they rail against that because they’ve already reached their own unscientific, non-peer-reviewed conclusions and claim THOSE to be fact.
Burahahahaha!!
The only actually disgusting aspect of this scene is that the “church” is playing this as a PR caper and another source of revenue, rather than simply forwarding an effort to help veterans who are in need.
I have observed that the purif works and helps people to cleanse their bodies of harmful chemicals, including drugs of any kind which can contribute to a great deal of personal enhancement. This is a good thing to do. I would love to see our veterans have this service available. They deserve it.
If the “church” really wanted to help our veterans and acknowledge the country that has steadfastly stood by the rights of people to practice their religions freely, then they might offer to train a few military medical units in the purif technology and maybe consult with them as they get up to speed. They should be offering this as a voluntary patriotic duty without need for fanfare or any payment.
They have already been paid many times over.
Espiritu, I don’t even think the church is doing this. I think Johnny Spagnola happened on this himself as a way to make money for himself and the church saw it and told him not to mention Purif and not to ask for donations. But as LD Sledge says, he still wants purifs but just can’t overtly ask for them. So now we get to covert begging for money.
I absolutely LOVED the sweat-out program and was told I was even C/Sed by Ron 🙂
[no sauna, Progest-some liquid protein, lots of running in plastic bags in the mid of LA summer (and I’m from SE Alaska 2 years prior!) I LOVED it – I got to get off post for a few hours and run along the Griffith hills and see wonderful views with friends.
But as for all the BS in those e-mail – I can not bring myself to believe a word except for the request for donations. Sheeesh – the guy didn’t even apologize for his error.
You dont have to be a scientologist to enjoy a sauna. Everybody feels good after a sauna or steambath. When I have night out on the town, i eat a real spicy breakfast burrito, mix a bloody mary, and then take a nice sauna. Wa la, non scientology purif program. Works every time. And no niacin. Take that LRH.
As a Gulf War-era US Army veteran, you don’t know how much this disgusts me. I normally have a red-hot fury for anything dealing with the High-Temperature Permanent Liver Damage Rundown anyway, but this has turned it white-hot. I’m just…you know, I can’t really find the words to convey my feelings, and that’s something rare with me. I thought I was immune to this level of cynicism and opportunism by now, but there is a never-ending depth to be plumbed with them.
I should have known, really. The kicker was the fact that the “pilot” disqualified anyone with psychiatric problems. Oh, Scientology, you never change. Of course, you can’t change.
I don’t need any more reasons to strive for the utter destruction of RCS. But they keep giving me new reasons. How nice of them.
My interpretation is that all people with psychiatric problems are not disqualified, I quote the exclusions
(1) chronic conditions (eg., cancer, heart disease, diabetes, liver disease, multiple sclerosis, etc.) that are not associated with Gulf War service but can produce diverse symptoms similar to Gulf War Illness; (2) conditions that might interfere with respondents’ ability to report symptoms (eg., psychiatric conditions or history of hospitalization for depression, alcohol or drug dependence; (3) pregnancy or unwillingness to use contraception.
In other words there is no point in having a study if the volunteers can’t report their symptoms accurately or there are other illnesses not associated with GWI that may effect the data. This obviously doesn’t exclude ALL psychiatric conditions or All medical conditions. This is exactly what they should do, they are attempting to get a control group with GWI and exclude as many non GWI factors as possible. Most medical trials do this in various manner to suit the trial, exclude various groups so that the study is more accurate with less variables and make it as safe as possible.
As far as Liver damage goes they are doing Comprehensive metabolic panel tests which include Liver function tests, this should determine wether it actually harms the liver.
Mike Leopold above stated that “the principal investigator” is Dr. David Carpenter , yet he is quoted in a 2007 Philadelphia Inquirer article concerning the NY Detox Center, stating that the program works. Confirmation Bias, anyone?
Bad news Mike, there is nothing wrong with someone trying to give some scientific credibility to a treatment they believe may work. Most trials and researchers are biased, thats the point, thats why they want to find out. Thats why we have publishing and peer review and then further larger studies (if justified) done by more centres hopefully without bias. We all rightly criticise statements of workability without any studies or demonstrable facts to support claims, now we criticise when someone attempts to actually supply these?
My opinion on this trial is that it is at least a real attempt to determine if this rundown has ANY merit at all with GWI, it is funded by Defence not Scientology. If it shown to have merit we will have to eat humble pie, or all the critics can reaffirm their rightness if there is no merit in the claims. I have looked through the various criteria and it all seems right to me, this is not a “Scientology” study. We all need to look at what the Primary (Improvement in QOL), Secondary (Improvement in cognitive functions) and other outcomes (Improvement in Blood Chemistry) are. No where do I read its trying to prove wether Rons theories on why it works are correct, wether drugs and toxins are released from fat, how much drug and toxins come out in the sweat, wether it will make you NOT’s completion, blah blah blah etc etc etc. The study to me looks like they are trying to see what benefits or dangers ( if any) there are from doing the rundown on a small controlled group(s) of volunteers with GWI. Nothing more whatsoever!
I myself have been part of medical trials and still supply QOL reports for these and know the drill and have researched extensively on how these work. This study is only 50, not 5000 and not long term. It is usually done to see if it may be worth conducting a larger broader longer term study that cover more variables. (And cost a great deal more) Lets not all jump the gun before the study is even done, we can argue over the validity and bias once the results are published and hopefully peer reviewed!
Mr Spag and cohorts may be complete tossers but don’t associate this study with him and the COS and the opportunities they may see from it. It works or it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter really on how it works or wether it is Scientology or not, lets wait and see.
Espiando,
First of all, thank you for your service. My brother was a Desert Shield Vet among other campaigns. He has been deployed four times, I think, in 11 years. Unlike you, however, my brother was a drinker and he has some PTSD. He’s still in and possibly going to Egypt. If Co$ got hold of him, I can’t imagine what I’d do. I’d probably go to jail for something bad. It’s this sort of opportunistic stuff against vets that I can’t stand. My brother’s liver, for instance, probably can’t take niacin toxicity – never mind the baking session, nor the brain washing.
Unfuckingbelievable. How low will the cult sink? Some vets are vulnerable and the LAST think that they need to touch is Co$.
All the Best,
Kristi
PS… Thanks for telling us this, Mr. Rinder. This is precisely the stuff that we need to know about in the wog world.
Here are the people who are doing this – http://www.saunapure.net . Strange that David Miscavige harps on about how Scientologists should be upfront and pround of being part of his shit mess, but this program – the one TC supported is completely UNDER THE RADAR, Yes folks, Scientologists who afraid to say they are Scientologists because someone might associate them with a certain sociopathic lunatic with the intials D and M.
This is really dumb. The last thing they should do is claim they are getting money from the US government. Every dollar that the Department of Defense or the VA provides in procurement funds or grants is governed by over 2,000 pages of regulations, and many statutes such as the False Claims Act. It is also very easy to check whether this money is real since every grantee and contractor has to register on a public website, and the grants and contracts are publicized. If the IRS or another person or agency wanted to prove they are taking money under false pretenses, they wouldn’t have a difficult job.
And it is funded by the US Army!!!
Well we should inform the US Army about L Ron Hubbards war record than. not the one the cchurch made up by the way.
In Los Angeles, it is the law that anyone soliciting donations for any charitable cause must have an information card to show to potential donors with information such as what percentage of expected donations will be used for administrative costs or fundraising costs and what percentage goes to “program services”
The legitimate charities that I’ve seen the info cards for rarely show non-program services expenses exceeding twenty percent.
So why does the church get to ignore this local law? How can a moron like Johnny Spag just make up a new charity, not bother to register it, and get away with this?
Is a religious organization somehow exempt from this requirement?
Throw in the phrase ‘for the veterans’ and you can suck out a lot of money from those who don’t research the ‘charity’. I see mail and wire fraud here. Hello FBI and Postal Inspectors?
What a moron. So of course, he expects everyone else to be morons too. Love the PR nonsense. Love him getting busted for it even more.
Why bother with different stories? Johnny might as well just outright lie to them like DM does at New Years events and tell them the sweating Vets in the Box need money for water since the utility had turned off the tap over unpaid bills. See, in this wise there is no need to backpedal since pics of dehydrated purple hazers cannot be exposed as “re-enactments” by the sleazy controversy-seeking press.
It’s doesn’t take three universities and a team of degree’d researchers to tell you that spending 10+ hours in a sauna while taking herculean doses of niacin is not only ineffective as a treatment for anything but cleaning out of your pores, losing water weight and spitefully giving your liver the finger because you hate it, but that it is in fact totally lunacy and more likely to cause you serious harm than to “purify” anything. You can’t “sweat out the Bad-Bad” anymore than trephination expelled the “Bad-Bad” from the human brain by jabbing at it with a stick through a hole drilled in your skull! This isn’t science, it’s not even pseudo-science- it’s complete balderdash.
Best commentary I’ve seen on purify, Mr. Smith. Hear! Hear!
I also rarely see anyone p***ed enough to use the word ‘balderdash’! Hahaha! Man, just well said. The purify always sounded extremely dangerous to me… I mean, toxic levels of niacin combined with five HOURS of a sauna?! I’m honestly surprised that physically weaker people haven’t gotten dangerously ill or died from these forced sauna roastings.
‘purif!’… DYAC!
buttons72: “I’m honestly surprised that physically weaker people haven’t gotten dangerously ill or died from these forced sauna roastings.”
People have. We who follow the news about Narconon hear about it more often than you might think. There are several legal cases working their way through the courts that may involve just this as a cause of death or physical injury; one of them was filed just a few days ago.
Chris: please don’t get hyperbolic. You don’t spend 10+ hours a day in the sauna on a standardly-delivered Purif. You don’t lose water weight (or any weight) on a standardly-delivered Purif. Your “facts” contradict the reality.
I agree about this much: if three universities are going to be involved in a pilot program with the Purification Rundown, the subjects should give full drug and substance histories and their sweat and urine should be sampled DAILY for residue of those substance and drugs.
Only then will we see, impartially, if the “washout” effects of the Purification Rundown are as claimed.
Wow Chris–you know not of what you speak. And if someone did make you sit in a sauna for 10 hours they were the nutty ones–not the rundown itself. And no one in their right mind would make an elderly person or ill person do a purif if they were not physically able to do it. If it IS done it’s just more BS inserted into a workable system to make it NOT work.
I hope you didn’t have to pay money to experience this. And if you didn’t do the purif, it’s clear that you didn’t read everything about it and have jumped to about a dozen stupid conclusions. It’s guys like you that just blab because they think they know something and try to make an even worse name for the stuff that DID work and still does *when done right.*
One minor point, though I know that no one was talking to me… Because medically untrained people are often assisting with purifs, I doubt their abilities to tell when someone is becoming physically stressed through the purif. Steve Mango, in his video “documentary” (really, it’s a testimony), about this experiences in Co$, talks about his second purif experience, wherein he became extremely light-headed and nearly ill. He talks about – I don’t know – almost a hallucinatory experience. An observer came by after he staggered out of the sauna and guided him back in there, right away. An obviously elderly or ill person – I agree, few people would force a purif on that person – but I take leave to doubt that an average Co$ (even a Clear), can detect the changes in someone they don’t know well who is reacting from prolonged heat, toxic niacin dosing and dehydration.
To me, purif sounds damned dangerous for little ‘detox’ benefit – sweat glands expend comparatively trace deep toxins from the body, from what I understand.
@ buttons72–there was no Reply button 🙂 under your entry so I am trying to answer you by replying to myself again. Hope that makes sense….I do want to answer you because I believe that you are coming at this from a caring and concerned point of view rather than a “Let’s diss on any and all of Hubbard’s stuff” point of view.
You are observant and I understand your concern, most definitely. But Steve Mango did this Purif during a time when the staff were no longer trained to CARE about what was happening to a parishioner no matter what service he was on. That’s one point where things went awry for him. He would not have been treated that way under my care.
A second point is that there is a lot of important information within the Purification material that you need to know cold if you are going to supervise people in there and run this type of a serious procedure. There is a lot that teaches you the difference between physical troubles and oveheating versus something being brought to the surface as a result of actual chemicals in the body triggering strange phenomena. It’s not a few things to read and off you go. It is an intense course of study not to be taken lightly.
The doctor you use also needs to be very educated about it and needs to be willing to see people who feel there is something physically wrong with them. These days this doctor liaison has been omitted much to the detriment of the parishioners. (Like Lisa MacPherson–a horrible and gross omission of taking the poor woman to a competent doctor immediately, and very much against the published rules of the church.)
There were times when someone was “running out” some drug phenomena and the place was closing for the night. The person I was supervising was in the middle of funny feelings, maybe even a hallucination, and they knew it was the way they felt after having taken some foreign substance. I used to get the keys to lock up later and sit there with them in the sauna until it was over for them, taking care of them physically (heat, water, food, etc.) so that they could get the bits of restimulative chemicals out of their bodies. Every time they were considerably brighter, happier, and would say things such as never realizing how badly the substances had effected them. Maybe it took half an hour extra, maybe a few hours. That was few and far between, but if it was needed I’d do it.
Seeing the people finish and be raving about their success with it made it completely worth it. Once the substances are gone they are gone–no relapsing happens unless they go and take lots more drugs or excessive alcohol again.
Sorry for getting so wordy here. but I hope it helps explain at least a little bit of the difference between doing it right and what is going on now in the C of $. I would gladly look over the experiences of those who were treated badly on the Purif to find the lack of care or expertise that caused them to feel bad or be thoroughly upset by the procedure.
And for this they pay something like $5,000 now, and when I ran it at my org it was about $1,000, or even around $800 with various membership discounts. Grrrr!
For decades we made clears and OT’s with out the help of a sauna.
Now we need it to “get a life back”.
Wasn’t this supposed to be for heavy druggies? Polluted with drugs in their system? Like Pro Tr’s was supposed to be for heavy druggies?
But I tell you some IDIOTS, seriously, IDIOTS, will take a 14 year old kid or a twelve year old kid or someone that has never taken drugs and grind them through these tortures for profit and claim it’s a “case cracking” miracle for their benefit! It’s true!
The policy about “paralleling the P.C.’s case” must have been put through a shredding machine or hidden in a vault. Or, what the hell, just tossed in the trash because some people need the cash for simple shit they can deliver while they talk on Skype!
Why does soldier = lost life = “needs sauna”.?
WHY? WHY? WHY?
Most of these guys are healthier and more fit than 98% of the rest of society! Clean clean clean!
I just spent part of the Christmas season at an air force base working for Toys for Tots. These guys look like Hollywood movie stars that have been churned through a fitness program sponsored by Arnold Schwarzenegger !
Healthy, kick ass, dangerous, clean cut !
Don’t you think it makes sense to find out if someone is polluted in some way before you need to “purify ” them?
I’ll tell you who might need the purif, the staff that have been eating the slop served up to the volunteers for decades.
Not David of course with his personal chef and menu selections. Just the underlings who provide it all for him.
At the bottom of every upset, is a person you bumped into that had no common sense.
It’s quite demonstrable that the Purif works as intended by no other standard when handling NOTs cases. Those in bio-science who view anything that affects the body to the exclusion of the spirit cannot possibly note the benefits. These also invalidate anything about Scientology as well claiming no scientific basis, etc. All just the same nonsense.
‘Who’ is to receive the program is defined in the Study Record Detail:
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT01672710
There is no point in getting excited. The purif will be evaluated by qualified people, and the Vets will be monitored properly.
Who knows, the Vets might even benefit (and that’s a good thing).
This reminded me of CCHR asking for “donos” to send the soldiers in Afghanistan CCHR DVD’s – I did not do it. I asked them how do I know they are getting these…and if they get them…what the hell are they going to listen to them with? It was the beginning of the end!
I am so glad to be out of that crazy wacky world of fraudulent fund raising in Scientology!
If any Scientologist is sending you e-mails to raise money – there must be a LIE in it…because they don’t show anyone where the money is spent.
That is why they persist – the LIES!
I’ve been in Scientology since 74. I’ve had some good results with much of the tech. However the Purif is an unworkable system. It does not remove toxins from the body in any measurable or beneficial amount. Part of the theory is correct, but the tech of how to remove these toxins is highly flawed. I’ve done 3 sweat out pgms, with and without the rubber suit, and 4 purifs. Good ones. I sat on the top tier mostly. Sweated buckets. There are many specifics I could go into here, but it would be a book. Here’s just a couple. You can’t replace “bad fat” with “good fat”. Drinking straight oil is ridiculous. When you add fat to already existing fat, what do you get? That’s right, more fat. And you also have to remember that sweating is done to cool off the body. That’s why bodies sweat. It does have a very minor, secondary effect of minimal amounts of toxins coming out via sweat glands. But it’s negligible. Taking massive amounts of vitamins and niacin doesn’t do much good either. More bad than good. The only “good” is that the niacin effects have such a definite “reaction” that people mistake it for “running out toxins”. Placebo man. Sorry.
Tip of the berg. Many more reasons why the purif isn’t workable. There ARE ways to remove toxins from the body. That just ain’t one of them.
My wife and I do Bikrams Yoga. 90 min class 95 to 100 degree room. Ive done the purif. Bikrams yoga makes the purif look like a small feeling blip.
Toxins are constantly being stored in the body through bad diet, processed foods, envirionment.
One thing never learned on the purif and that is about the lymph system. Most people don’t know its purpose.
The lymph system has more fluid in it then the circulatory system. The purpose of the lymph system is to collect and remove toxins.
The circulatory system moves because of the beating heart. But the lymph system has no pump.
The lymph system moves by moving the body. That is one of the main reasons why sedentary people get sick and look bad.
They are not taking out the garbage and toxins are building up in the body.
Natures commands us to excersize and move in order to take out the garbage.
It is a life style, not a one time course.
This is a good read for those interested in effective life health through what science knows about detox.
It is free because it is life.
http://www.health-secrets.com/articles/lymphatic_system.htm
LD Sledge wrote in his latest email that “we do have 50 on a pilot”. The pilot that is not supposed to be called the Purif due to some “bureaucratic bs”.
Oh Dear God, a new scam to further drain the bank accounts of the faithful and make them think that the CoS is doing actually something relevant in society, now for veterans. If the CoS really cared about veterans, they would have offered help to vets and their families long ago. But know this: the Church of Scientology does not believe in charity and does not practice it.
Money can only flow IN to the Cos, it never flows outward. Think about it.
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT01672710
Johnny, the Vets in my family fought for freedom. Something your Cult does not believe in. I don’t have to tell you what you should do with those high doses of niacin do I? Leave the Vets alone, idiot.
John Spagnola pounces on the idea of “a full okay” by the US Army to provide a free purif to vets. But he omits all the specifics; the who, what, where, how and when. It is happening because John says so.
He goes straight for the money! True to form. Who is John really, and where are these donations going to? Sounds fishy to me.
The last thing any Veteran needs is the Fundamentalist Church of Scientology anyway.
If you needed it and did it correctly you know what it does and that it works. Critics saying its dangerous and doesn’t work haven’t done it, or didn’t do it right OR didn’t need it. That’s one thing I think is wrong in the delivery if it. I donot bbelieve everyone needs it. If you don’t need to do it it can be a horrible experience, so I think just throwing everyone on it is a mistake.
Exactly. I did my grades and through OT IIIX before the Purif came out. I had great gains, loved it all. I did the Purif very early on, around ’82 (?) when it first came out to orgs, and it blew me away. (The statement that “You don’t get any gains without the Purif first” is a load of bull.)
But there was no one messing around with it and we didn’t have a Scn doctor to send people to–the doctor I went to agreed with it and thought it was a good thing. I did need it and it was great. Later I delivered it and then C/S’d it, and all our public got great gains from it. We did it right and didn’t have money on our minds every second of the day or allow registrars to go into the sauna and “reg” people on the program. The one reg we had didn’t even try to do that.
I just know that no matter where the Purif will be delivered now, no matter what it’s called, it’s NOT going to get proper results and it’s going to be a miserable experience if it’s delivered in conjunction with the C of $. That’s been proven over and over again at this point.
If there are any Vets reading this who want to give it a go (or anyone else) do NOT go to a C of $-related operation. Go to the indie guys and get it done properly. Make sure you read the information about it and understand it so you can participate in it with knowledge about what’s going on. It’s NOT woo-woo and some wierdo chemical thing to do to your body. That’s probably what it’s turned into under the control of the C of $ now or what happened to some unfortunate people who did it with uninformed staff “delivering” it to them.
I’m so tired of the badmouthing of the stuff by those who “know” when I’ve seen plenty of people do well with it and experience personal improvements. It does work if it’s done right and it does remove effects of drugs, alcohol, chemicals and pollution from the body.
The first time I did the purif in the early 90s I had some really good results on it. I do think there is something valuable there. Could it be improved? Probably, I guess. I had problems with the vits both times I did it. I suspect synthetic vitamins in high doses become toxic, in my body anyway. Maybe better vits and some other things could be done to improve it, while keeping it “standard”. There should be consistent, trained staff with some medical training etc. I think the only requirement now is the purif I/C hat. When I was on it sometimes I would be alone, or would have to search through the org for a terminal.
The second time I did it it was horrible. I didn’t need it and I was CSed for it because “its possible you did not get all the gains available” or whatever the r-factor was. This was from the FN miscavige alteration.
Oh please the USG has had access Scientology tech at least since the RV project started back in the early ’70’s.
In my opinion this whole project is either pro forma or as one of the commenters obliquely suggested an effort to discredit the subject by alteration and misapplication.
As if the “Church of Scientology” needed any help in the latter. Since they are doing such a splendid job of discrediting the subject all on their own.
If I were them I’d be more concerned of the actual intentions behind it. Not try to reg money for it.
Again in my opinion since the so called “leader” has embraced the USG as “friends” there has been an pervasive naivety and gullibility about how “official channels” operate and a fawning acceptance of and an obsession to be accepted by “authority” in what’s left of the laity.
Scientology either works or it doesn’t from the viewpoint of the person receiving it.
One doesn’t need a “study” by a bunch suborned post graduate egg heads from some lofty university to prove its workability in the authoritarian circle jerk AKA “peer reviewed scientific study”.
Robin — IF someone was going to deliver the purif to army vets then it DOES need a “peer reviewed study” to get through the bureaucracy. If someone wants to deliver it to them without any government involvement, of course they can do so any way they want.
Exactly. Johnny’s Spag’s fatuous misinformation about it aside, I think this is a good thing. I’ve done the purif twice and benefitted from it. The benefits in my case were not dramatic but I then I didn’t smoke, do street drugs, take painkillers, and my alcohol consumption has always been low to moderate, so I probably have never had that much toxicity to eliminate; nevertheless I felt better each time afterwards. I think its a good thing that the US government test the workability of the purif. If it works, if it helps these veterans, it should be used. If it doesn’t, then forget about it, that’s all. And I like the idea of the government becoming more familiar with Miscavology. A window is being opened into the cult. That’s the way I see things, anyway.
Mike,
Very true and that is my point.
The USG has had access to this information for several decades yet they are suddenly conducting a study on the Purifs effectiveness on GWS?
Why now?
I mean the US Army’s been into the Human Potential thing since the late ’70’s.
Remember “Men Who Stare at Goats”?
Anyhoo…
I see it more suspicious than auspicious?
Just call me your resident paranoid 😉
If samples can be taken of fatty tissues before and after
the purif and then 3 months and 6 months later that
would give us a telling story.
As the Scientology Orgs continue to empty of both staff and public, I’m afraid we’re going to see more and more use of these phony “So-Co” (social co-ordination)) groups to provide income, personnel, and PR . These programs have NEVER withstood independent, objective scrutiny and testing.
With Scientology, it’s all about the MONEY.
To Mike Leopold
LOL, and get Sheila Chaliff to scream “WE will Hammer and Pound them into compliance!”
until Readers Digest gets her removed.
Rodger on the Money
Is history repeating itself here ??????
Yes, it is about the money, and I think Johnny Spagnola figured a way to ask for donations for this “great cause” and he would keep the lion’s share of the money and send a little on, but all with no paper trail so someone could do an audit of where the donations went.
First, it’s funded by the army, then it’s not, plus it needs some extra money for travel expenses which is, in all the advertised such studies I’ve ever seen, normally awarded to the participants and is part of the study budget. Perhaps somebody checked and saw so such study was being done by the army and they had to change tack fast.
So, which three universities are doing this supposed research again ?
Methinks this “study” exists solely in Mr. Spag’s brain.
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT01672710
I was wrong !
Study actually exists :
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT01672710
Dr. David Carpenter is listed as the principal investigator, yet he is quoted in a 2007 Philadelphia Inquirer article concerning the NY Detox Center, stating that the program works. Confirmation Bias, anyone?
If there actually IS an independent study happening, I hope the universities involved discover Jonny’s email and requests for money and people who want to be in it… and hopefully that will skew the whole thing. Make them want to disassociate from doing the study at all because of the way Co$ will use them.
Help those warrior heroes “get their lives back”?
By sticking them in a sauna 5+ hours a day for a month or more?
It is strange that he discounts the lives of these people because they haven’t done a purif yet.
If they made it through an army tour in Desert Storm or Desert Shield they should get an honorary TR’s and Objectives pass, instead they “have no life” because they haven’t sat in a sauna.
Looooooord have mercy.
“And he is not to call it the Purif! Just some bureaucratic BS”
LOL
Yeeeaaaaahhh.
Oh puhleeeeez! There will be no study of any cult-activity. That would lead to an official pronouncement of fraud.
Maybe we should all call him….
These guys loose all rational thinking at the sound of the word “money.”
Laughter! Amen!
Purif for Vets I’m in favor of if it reduces suicides and homelessness..
Once Miscavige get his claws into delivery It will be another Narconon insurance scam unfortunately
False stats,more suicides and homelessness.
And also the usual denigrating comment about others: “Just some bureaucratic BS…”, as if they were the perfect model of organization with a valid, real, honest to god purpose to help someone else.
These characters are out of valence and I suspect they have gotten into the Black Heart’s valence and/or his minions- just rip off money, get some “good PR”, pretend you are helping and then be honored and commended for your great action. Ego never seen in the history of the galaxies for the last eons.
Additionally they are confused, there is no coordination on orders or programs, everybody is just falling where the bucks are. Well, better this way as they won’t be able to accomplish much and less people will suffer the abuses carried on inside the idle buildings.
To end, this is: a monumental, straight up and vertical and unprecedented confusion of identity and actions.
Very well said Silvia…
Isn’t this going to cause Johnny Spag(hetti-for-brains) and his greedy cohorts a lot of unwanted trouble? If a “totally independent” study by experts at three universities examines the Purif with anything resembling scientific rigour, they are almost certain to conclude that it is dangerous nonsense – and give their conclusions publicity. Foot-bullet!
Mark, I am not so sure they will conclude it is “dangerous nonsense” as
FASE did some studies on the purif way back in the 80’s and did find
validity in detoxing through the purif (OK, FASE was not an independent
outfit as they were majorly staffed by Scientologists). Also, there were some
spectacular success stories coming out from individuals doing the purif after
the Chenobel catastrophe. On top of that I have heard some very good
results from soldiers exposed to agent orange when they got through with
their purifs. So if the these studies are now done scientifically maybe LRH
“research” will finally be validated as a workable system to clean out the body
from toxins. It will be very interesting to see.
Maybe we will have some very long faces over at the Tony Ortega blog.
Besides all that, to now ask for donations is just totally predicted. It is getting
tiresome even on a third flow.
Will you accept the findings if they determine it is dangerous and complete BS? Hmmm?
The readers at Tony’s blog will not have ‘long faces’ if the findings determine the ‘Purif’ is ‘safe’, or ‘workable’… the fact is we’ll all be RELIEVED for the $ci victims… albeit very surprised.
I think you should probably get to know the motives of critics a bit better before making such vile assumptions about us.
I FEEL LIKE I NEED A DETOX AFTER READING UR COMMENT AND THERE WILL BE NO LONG FACES AT TONY ORTEGO BLOG BECAUSE IF YOU HEAR HOOFBEATS, THINK ZEBRAS, NOT HORSES. BUT THEN BAN ALL EQUINES ANYWAYS. SHORT STORY SHORT, ALL HORSES BANNED FROM BUNKER. SHUT UP.
Thank you, Lars, this is very well-written and formatted correctly. I am sure there will be many long faces at The Bunker. Their faces grow so long every time LRH is proven to be correct, I have started calling it The Stable! LOL. But really, nice post and do you know who are the mods here and why do they deny my replies?
Hi Enthralledobserver, I will accept the findings if
done scientifically (control group, physicians and
chemists etc involved).
The Ortega blog, which I really like, has comments
that SOMETIMES are gleefully critical of all LRH
that you can wonder what their motives are. Of
course SOME of them undoubtedly want to be part
of the effect of shutting down the church of Scientology
but, but, but… Tom C and John T et al are in this church
(just kidding).
Just a side note, personally I did not get much out of
the purif but I do not have a heavy drug history. It was
however nice to go out and run after having spent most
of my life sitting in a chair.
Thanks for your reply and I always appreciate your input.
My face does grow long every time he is proven right. I cant remember when that was, but Im sure there is something. But I do smile broadly every time he is proven wrong. Ill take a thousand smiles to one long face. My prediction is that a panel of independent researchers will find mega doses of niacin and dehydrating saunas to be bullshit. But who knows, maybe ill have a rare long face.
Love the “not call it the purif” what? You worried about bad CoS PR?
Is the word getting out?
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck…..then it’s fundraidsing