This article was unearthed by my good friend Dave Richards, one of the most successful Executives in scientology history. I recalled reading it when it was first published, but had not been able to locate it since.
It is a perfect example of the hypocrisy in scientology, and the “research” conducted by L. Ron Hubbard upon which he based his many absolutist (absurdist?) pronouncements.
How does scientology square the fact that the ONLY cause of cancer, according to L. Ron Hubbard, is “a second-dynamic or sexual upset, such as the loss of children…” with their practice of forcing disconnection? By this logic, they are CAUSING cancer in people. Now, they probably don’t care about creating that effect on someone like me – but what about the parents in the Sea Org or scientologists at large who have been forced to disconnect from their children? They are happy to kill off their own staff and revenue streams with cancer?
As for the “cause” of cancer, well, this is just idiocy. “Cancer is not caused”? It’s the “genetic line” being blocked and “certain cells individuate” and “try to build another body.” And this is presented as fact. Like it is proven and LRH is imparting his findings and great wisdom to those who do not understand. This is a perfect example of Hubbard bunkum.
Now, some may say he was just “imparting” his research, and that this is not “current” scientology thinking. But every scientologist knows this is not true: everything ever written or spoken by L. Ron Hubbard is true — this was published in 1990 as “fact” to Solo NOTs auditors. And that in itself is a rather remarkable thing, as it is NOT what Hubbard decreed in his NED for OTs writings (information which is confidential — only those who have studied NOTs are supposed to be aware of this) where he states cancer is a manifestation of Body Thetans (BTs). Here are a couple of short excerpts about the NED for OTs Rundown steps to be followed on everyone:
The auditor now has the Pre-OT look at the body and in particular any somatic area or area of chronic somatics. [somatic means physical condition in scientology]
Phenomena You are Likely to Encounter on this step:
* BTs/clusters who are being broken legs, misformed arms, cancer, damaged brains, or other non-optimum body parts or conditions.
Cognitions or EPs Encountered on this step:
* Awareness that anything perceived as mass or somatic in the body is not the body, but comes from BTs/clusters.
This is in part why many people in scientology do NOT seek medical help for physical conditions. They believe that everything can be resolved through auditing, especially NED for OT’s (it is after all DIANETICS for OTs and Dianetics addresses “somatics” of all descriptions). Even if the person has not achieved the exalted status of “NED for OTs”, if they have physical conditions they will be told by scientology authorities (usually registrars) “you need to get to NOTs where that will be addressed.” Often they seek no medical treatment but rather invest their time and money in getting up to and then audited on NOTs. Only when the condition has progressed without resolution with auditing do they then try medical treatment and often that is too late.
Scientologists truly believe that ANY physical condition (even brain damage…) can be resolved through auditing – specifically by removing “BT’s” who are “being [condition]”…
I guess the only reason nobody has ever gone after them for making false medical claims is that the NOT’s materials have never been published BY scientology so they are not “advertising.” And like Christian Scientists have a religious right to refuse blood transfusions even if it causes their death (though not that of a child), so too scientologists have the right to not seek medical treatment for their ailments if they so choose.
This is in part why the circumstances surrounding the death of L. Ron Hubbard had to be turned into a fairy tale. The ultimate “proof” of these L. Ron Hubbard assertions is L. Ron Hubbard himself. Various strokes, pancreatitis and other ailments should NOT exist after 20 years of auditing BT’s away.
The vast majority of scientologists have no idea of physical deterioration he suffered, and if they did, it would fly in the face of so much they are taught and raise so many questions about the fundamental “truths” of dianetics and scientology. Was LRH PTS and he could not handle it? Was he NCG? Did he have unhandled O/Ws? Evil Purposes? How is it he could not apply the tech to himself? All his solo auditing of BT’s didn’t resolve his physical conditions? Really?
What a can of worms….
Kind of interesting since Kelly Preston just died from cancer…
Research.
Research.
Research.
It’s a laugh, isn’t it?
Wendy Honnor was using this data from his “research” to cure people with cancer. She is no longer in the cult. Wonder how that went??
“What a can of worms.”
I think he could have gotten some real help from a psychiatrist.
He’s been dealing with the worms for about 35 years now and they don’t seem to helped him at all.
A psychiatrist could hardly have done him any worse. I believe there is a real good chance that a psychiatrist could have helped him to have a happier life. It would be difficult to have one that was less happy and that’s for sure.
I’m very thankful to the man in one way (a small way) because he left us all with a real good life lesson. Next time you find yourself wishing for a more prosperous life (in terms of money), just think about that poor man and just how much happiness all that money brought him.
Nope. Happiness would seem to be found elsewhere. A big pile of money will just not do it – unless maybe it is covered in chocolate? That might help, I think. Yummy!
Skyler,
Perhaps if he’d had a real FRIEND, he’d have been in a better state; someone he could talk honestly (what a concept!) and openly about things, perhaps someone who could safely say: “That’s CRAZY” without fear of being RPFed or worse. Someone who could remind him of his humanity, (deep down in the dark places he was afraid to go.)
Well, the current POOP of this scam did have a real friend. That was Mike Rinder.
But he could not tolerate hearing the truth and so he sent Mike to “The Hole” and beat on him until Mike finally had enough and blew. Very understandable. And a very good lesson.
It’s important to value your friends. For all the reasons that make sense. Just look what happens when you do not value your friends.
110 volts applied to the brain. Yep, thats help for sure. I hope your getting some of this tech.
This LRH is fascinating me more and more. Obviously a crack pot, but fascinating none the less. You really can’t make that shit up
And while we’re at it let’s not forget smoking. Nearly everyone at every org smokes. At least that is how it is in the LA area. My own kids grew up in a smoke-free house and knew how bad it was and yet within months of joining staff, they both smoked. It is the ethnic of that group and the “culture” of that group that everyone smokes. Well we know that a lifetime of smoking can bring on cancer. So that has to be put in the equation too.
Except of course everything he wrote was pretty much made up shit.
Thank you all for your comments in response to my story posted below.
Each comment has been read by me again and again. The simple love, care and understanding moves mountains. Thank you for taking the time. It helps me unbelievably and I agree wholeheartedly with you all.
I am of the opinion that Mr Mike Rinder is a true gentleman and setting an example to the world. True courage. True wisdom. True care. My hat is taken off to this man and I hold it to my chest with my head bowed in deep respect.
He will probably knock the hat out of my hand because Australians tend to hate all that ceremony stuff!
I smile with you all, thanks to you all.
And I just want to add…….They were good people in my upbringing and life. Very good people. They, like me did not know.
This blog helps everyone see and learn and evolve to a new level. This is imperative in moving forward and very important for all of our futures. Again, Mr Rinder. My hat is off to you. You are a wise man.
Whenever LRH tried to play doctor, he went completely off the rails into madness. Take this little gem. Even in the time he was working, we had a solid understanding of radiation-induced mutation and radiation-induced cancer. I have one of my father’s Navy radiation protection textbooks from the late 60s that describes this in detail. This knowledge was out there when he wrote this garbage.
Nowadays, researchers routinely induce cancer in laboratory animals as part of an experiment. We even induce human cancers in these animals to test the effectiveness of new drugs. I wonder how SCN would handle that? Another one of LRH’s empirically false claims.
SCN medical claims are generally completely crazy and utterly without basis in science, and they don’t even have a deity involved to take the blame if they don’t work.
Actually there are warnings on some bourbons that if you’re pregnant drinking whiskey is bad for you…shame they have to tell pregnant women not to drink bourbon…? Think they’d just “know” that unborn fetus are harmed by guzzling 80-90 proof bourbon.
So LRH examined cancer patients and found that every one of them had something on the 2nd dynamic?
STOP THE PRESSES!
That is like examining dying people in a nursing home and finding out they all ate carrots when younger. AHA!
But then again, the whole problem should be solved now that Esteemed Leader has changed the 2nd dynamic to urge to survive through being a character, or creation, or something else. Magic! Now children and sex have nothing to do with nothing. Cancer has been cured!
May I take this opportunity to mention Paula Quigley, RIP
Paula Quigley joined Scientology at 16 and was involved and worked in it every day until her death of cancer at only 60.
Paula’s last will left her meager possessions to Scientology and asked that her ashes be spread in the Pacific Ocean. Stacey Wells, A Scientologist, signed off as Executor.
When Paula passed away, Scientology came and cleaned out her possessions but they never picked up her ashes with the LA Coroner Office. Volunteers for the LA Coroners Office (lovely lovely people) spent several years contacting Scientology to pick up her ashes and fulfill her last simple request. Scientology ignored them and finally Paula’s remains were disposed of by the LA Coroner along with all the other abandoned remains.
The people “saving the planet” are fucking monsters
I LOVED Paula! She was one of my favorite people. That really happened? I would’ve taken her ashes to the ocean personally had I known…. So f’d up!
Paula was lovely and had bling before bling was invented.
Sadly yes, that happened. One of the volunteers tracked me down by email from some on line posting where I mentioned Paula and I was willing to take her ashes as well but the problem was the legal executor of her estate was Stacey Wells and the State of California required she had to sign off on it – and being a fucking Scientologist who must have completed The Piece of Shit Rundown, she never never did
Oh man, that makes me so angry and sad all at the same time. Paula was one of the highlights of people in the S.O. for me when I used to do exams at ASHOF. She was like my mom except way cooler
Glad to hear she brought light into your time there. Remember her for that!
That is cold. Very, very sad. I don’t use cuss words too often, but that is effin demented.
Scientology has always reminded me of Communism and a Ponzi scheme rolled into one. Run by a megalomaniac sociopath.
My mom passed away from esophageal cancer in 2012. She was going back and forth to Flag until 2011 before she found out. She had become OT VII by then. She was a nurse most of her life, never did drugs or smoked, had a beer maybe 6 times a year and just was a good person. But at the ripe age of 62, she gets cancer.
She had surgery and chemo/radiation up until she finally decided to stop treatment. She died fully believing in Tech and Scientology.
I miss her so much. Each and everyday.
You have my heartfelt condolences. I fully understand the loss of Mom.
And thank you for adding your voice to the exposings.
Well this text from Hubbard is not from 1990. It’s from somewhere in the 1950. It was just used by the D of P who thought to do well.
It’s of course not an absolute, but I have observed that many cases of cancer have an upset on “second dynamic” prior to it. Or at least a big upset (but many upset in life are often on the loss of a loved one etc. Or a divorce…)
Now of course one do the conventional treatment for the cancer, and also the natural treatments like cutting off suger completly and many other things like eating organic food, curcuma etc… and also psychotherapy on prior upset to cancer (that can be any kind of counseling if the therapist can listen and have enough empathy, and it can be auditing if done with good care and understanding)
So Hubbard bulletin is of course not an absolute but is either not completly false. All is a matter a good balance, and there is not absolute truth.
And of course Miscavige is a monster as he creates huge upset on second dynamics with disconnection, hence creating cancer on scientologists. COB is himself a cancer.
One of my parents died in my youth within the Sea Org. I had a very tough time and closed down and hid from everyone, including myself, the pain of this death as a young child. It was Cancer and unfortunately, as we are all discussing here – the same happened to my parent.
My only outlet for my intense grief was in a closed room with a stranger giving me a couple of auditing sessions. Whilst I found some relief from these few sessions, I ended up getting to a point that it was NOT resolving the deep, deep loss for me. It felt like a dead-end.
I was offered no advice, no comforting thoughts, no solace, no encouragement to actually talk about this most devestating moment in my young life and I suffered in my own world, in deep shock for about 2 years in a haze of profound and overwhelming pain and loss.
I never had a funeral. I never had a tombstone or plaque to go “talk to”. No-one ever spoke to me about my loss that I remember other than my Auditor in those 2 sessions. My other parent and sibling just suffered in silence whilst everyone was very busy “getting the stats up” around us. We were so traumatised we could not even talk about it to ourselves. And that state continued for me for 38 years. Rarely spoken about. Rarely acknowledged. Forgotten. My parent practically did not exist and never existed and if I did allow myself to have a moment of grief I would angrily brush my eyes and say “It’s just my Case! It has to wait for another expensive auditing session that I can’t afford!” And I would block the pain off once again like I had learnt through time in order to survive.
The grief never resolved. Just chained up inside in a deep hard ball of pain. Unbelievable, devastating loss and pain.
I had the odd auditing action throughout my further 38 years of auditing, where I touched occasionally on this deep loss. But every time I brought it up in session, it was costing me $850 an hour! Even as a successful person, that is extremely expensive councelling on something that happened so long ago and whilst it got a little more surface upset off – it did not get to the bottom of it and the deep emotional wound remained tight and hard and strong. $850 an hour as I was on Nots rates and this was only a few short years ago. $850 an hour! That’s a lot of money.
A little while ago, I was ordered to the same, uncomprehending ‘Sec checking’ in response to my honest and sincerely helpful questions, much like Leah Remini in her honest, caring and sincere question about “Where’s Shelly?”
After my intense Sec Check that became the most traumatising incident, nearly as traumatic as the death of my parent in my youth, I deeply started to say ‘what the heck is going on?’
I then, a few weeks after that Sec Check fell desperately ill and lived on the edge of death for many, many months.
Throughout these tough months, the only place I found some “sense” to my unbelievable confusion of what had happened was here, on this blog, every day.
Every day, I found “truth” that slowly unwound my confusion. I sucked this truth like a man in the desert, looking for water.
The grief never resolved. Just chained up inside in a deep hard ball of pain. Unbelievable, devastating loss and pain.
You all have helped me! All of you! Every single person. I love every comment because you practice speaking truth, as you see it. And to me – that has always been my path. To speak truth. And to speak truth to bring about the most sunshine one could to as many people as you could. That is how I have tried very hard to live my life because that is what feels good in my heart.
Last week my doctor advised me to get some councilling on the deep grief I had stuck inside my body. I took his advice and had a 1 hour session that cost me $120. In that 1 hour, instead of being told to look for an ‘earlier similar’ or an ‘earlier beginning’ to the incident of my parent death, as would occur with a Scientology auditor, the councillor instead suggested ideas and solutions to my grief such as:
1). Doing the 7 steps of grieving (of which I had never done in my 38 years since the death – not one single step)
And
2). Write a letter to my deceased parent and share it with your current friends so you can feel some support and comfort
And
3). Imagine what your Parent would write to you if they could and share it with your friends.
I felt more profound and deep relief from that 1 hour of counselling at a cost of $120 than the hours and hours and hours and years and years I spent sobbing my heart out with a very, very expensive ‘auditor’!
In my own heart, the loss of the belief that the Church of Scientology as a whole, was trying to truly assist their fellow man, is another loss to me in a very deep way.
I believe that this blog site helps all of us, heal our wounds and move through the ‘seven steps of grief healing’ in our own ways.
I thank you all so very much. You have all become my Aunties, my Uncles, my Grandparents, my Cousins and my friends.
And you bring love and friendship to all.
And you have all helped me personally in an intense and powerful way.
I thank you all very, very deeply and humbly. 😉
Thank you so much. It is this sort of message that makes everything worthwhile. SO happy to be able to help in some way. And hearing it in such a heartfelt manner is especially rewarding.
Dear Mike,
As you have observed, your blog is healing a number of exes and even some folks who were never in the scio bubble. I cannot but believe that part of your intent with this blog is to heal psychic injuries by providing a platform to reveal the truth, expose the reason for some of scio’s behavior, and for allowing 2WC (two way communication) for so many to ‘get it out’. This blog has more life and active therapy in it than all of the ideal morgues combined.
Thank you so very much.
Thanks so much Jim. I guess my original thought about this blog was to give people a place where they could come and to be reassured they are not “insane.” It is quite common for someone being put through the scientology grinder to begin to believe they are crazy for doubting things or observing what they have observed. A lot of people who reached out to me over the years told me that just hearing there were others who saw things the same way they did helped them a great deal.
I think things have become a little more philosophical and sophisticated than that these days, thanks in large part to the many intelligent commenters and some excellent contributions from readers (Terra Cognita e.g.)
It gives room for people to think a bit I hope.
Your story caused me to tear up terribly. I’m so sorry you had to endure the loss and treatment you did. You have a home here thanks to Mike’s good graces. I’m sure most others here would agree we’re happy to have you and welcome you into your new semi-family.
Welcome Heart Singer. There is always one ” tech” that costs virtually nothing and is the most effective “tech” ever devised – that of having a sincere friend or family you can actually talk to that doesn’t stand in judgement of you. And by that I think you know what I mean. I can pretty much speak for everyone who posts on this site that you are among friends.
Thank you for sharing your story Heart Singer. Welcome!
What an agonizing story. And to have all that grief bottled up, without even a friendly shoulder to cry on, not even remotely spotted and helped by all those “OTs”…and case supervisors…speaks volumes of the failure of this lost and wayward group. I feel your pain…as do many here, I am sure.
Thank you Heart Singer for opening up and telling your heartbreaking story.
You are surely among friends here. I once had someone tell me “Grief needs to be shared.” and that statement alone made me realize how much grief was pent up within because of false notions that I had accumulated over the years that prevented me from opening up about it. That was a start to healing.
I appreciate reading what your therapist recommended to you.
This….is why.
My parents divorced when I was young….and it was bitter, divisive and ugly. About as far from the Xtian ideal of ‘god is love’ as can be. This knocked my life off course, and was part of my ‘ruin’ this lifetime and a reason for my attraction to Scn.
As a ‘secondary’ (an intense moment of emotional shock) it had come up a few times in sessions, but most auditors just ‘handled it with rudiments’ and never really addressed it. Now, per the Theory….all painful emotion incidents rely on Engramic content for (moments of pain, loss and unconsciousness) for their ‘charge’ (harmful energy). For me, that prior incident (underneath my secondary) was past track, and had to do with a genocide in the US in the 1800’s. It was surprising, enlightening, and totally unexpected when it came up in Solo, many years later. Further, 16 months ago my body suffered a stroke that forcibly inserted me into the current Health Care System. And while I could rant on that experiencd , I will simply say, it is a real mixed bag. I have gone from ‘bed-ridden’ to ambulatory, and ‘ok’ed to drive’. So hang in there! You are loved.
And yes, this blog has been a steam roller of a ‘healing experience’ for me.
Dear Heart Singer, As a “never in”, please know you are in my prayers and thoughts. I am sure I speak for all of us who read this blog as “never in” folks, you are in all of our prayers. Keep up the good work with your healing. May God bless you.
Wow Singer that just really touched me. I’m so glad you got some help and are coming to terms with this. I was a bit the same way when my Mom died – but I was no longer in the SO so did not go through that, but it was still putting up with all my siblings telling me I needed to go in session, which I never did. I just cried and cried and my normal “wog” friends were there to help me and I could talk about her etc. We also did have a lovely memorial for her. Good luck and so happy we have all helped you from here. Sending hugs to you…..
Dear Heart Singer, so glad you are in this blog community. It sounds like you are well on the road to recovery from that intense bottled up grief and loss. Welcome to the sunshine and may the rest of your lie be happy and calm and free from grief.
So truly sorry you have been so abandoned but I would like to thank you on what you have shared as a helpful tool for grief.
How has Scientology been able to get away with this “CRIME” for so long?
It’s a true CULT!
Chad, every time I hear things like this, like LRH’s so called explanation of why something is that is not even true, it reminds me of Paulette Cooper talking about LRH telling other members of the church to “Run the Boo-Hoo” or item on track causing their present time problems. It is really funny I think! 🙂 I say to LRH, “Hey. What do you mean, run the Boo-Hoo?” And Chad, questions like this are why he went after Paulette. 🙂
Ron went after anyone who had even simple questions because his “answers” couldn’t stand up against the most cursory examination and he knew it. He couldn’t stand being shown for what he was, an accomplished con man and hypnotist. he must have gone CRAZY whenever any of his kids went through the “Why?” stage. That’s probably when he started disconnecting from each of them. By the time they hit the terrible teens, he was bye-bye. for sure.
Geeeezz…I just read.my 3rd Scientology article, written by Miike R. I know I can trust him.
Scientology is really #!$&@$ up!
A SCIENTOLOGY COMMERCIAL DURING SUPER BOWL !!! They must really be hurting to spend that kind of money. 5 mil for 30 seconds.
See Tony O’s blog. They buy ads in regional markets where they have scientologists concentrated. These ads are directed at shoring up the morale of those inside the bubble.
There are approximately 600 ingredients in cigarettes. When burned, they create more than 7,000 chemicals. At least 69 of these chemicals are known to cause cancer, and many are poisonous.
Many of these chemicals also are found in consumer products, but these products have warning labels. While the public is warned about the danger of the poisons in these products, there is no such warning for the toxins in tobacco smoke.
Here are a few of the chemicals in tobacco smoke and other places they are found:
Acetone – found in nail polish remover
Acetic Acid – an ingredient in hair dye
Ammonia – a common household cleaner
Arsenic – used in rat poison
Benzene – found in rubber cement
Butane – used in lighter fluid
Cadmium – active component in battery acid
Carbon Monoxide – released in car exhaust fumes
Formaldehyde – embalming fluid
Hexamine – found in barbecue lighter fluid
Lead – used in batteries
Naphthalene – an ingredient in mothballs
Methanol – a main component in rocket fuel
Nicotine – used as insecticide
Tar – material for paving roads
Toluene – used to manufacture paint
and he passed on an aspirin……
“Power and Money.” “Power and Money.” Got that right, throw in the human stranger/friend that walks beside us from the moment we are aware we are alive: The fear of death. And tell people you can save them from it… They’ll follow you anywhere and give you everything they have…
Both of my sisters smoke. One of them stopped since she was placed in an infirmary for the rest of her life. And the other looks like a cigarette having smoked for 53 years the way she has. I don’t care to tell people smoking is bad for them, because many of them will say in response “Well how would you know? Are you a doctor?. If people want to give themselves cancer then the best thing to do is burst out laughing in their faces. 🙂
I totally agree, Lawrence. It takes self discipline to quit smoking, and this is fueled by the strong desire to do so. Talking to the people you love about why they should quit smoking is a waste of time. They know better but they don’t care ENOUGH. All you can do is stand by while, essentially, they poison themselves, with nicotine, a substance which is classified as a poison, and with the carcinogenic chemicals with which the nicotine and the cigarette paper are treated so as to burn properly. Its hard to continue to love self destructive people. I found out a long time ago that its impossible to truly connect and love people who don’t love themselves. After a while you just toughen up toward them while they do themselves in.
As one who smoked for about 45 years: Until they caused a stroke and the Drs didn’t ask, but just slapped a patch on my shoulder and shoved me in a facility where the nearest smoking area was a mile away. It’s been 10 years now, and I can’t say I’m an ex-smoker even though I haven’t had even one in two years. Even now, don’t talk to me about them, OR stopping. Craving is still intense and I’ll instantly be back at 5 packs a day if I’m given any chance, (which my wife won’t give me, darn her hide, as beautiful and soft as it is.) Trying to argue a smoker into stopping is a lost cause. It’s truly a case of “You become what you resist.
If the Purif actually worked, I and others would have stopped in ’79, but in reality, the only respite we got from the incessant heat was a smoke break out by the pool, even though the sun was fiercely beating down.
J said, “there is no such warning for the toxins in tobacco smoke.”
Um, EVERY PACK of cigs sold in the USA warns that smoking them causes cancer. What country do you live in?
Also remarkable is that there are no content labels on alcohol. The headaches come mostly from methanol or wood alcohol, then there’s a whole host of byproducts mixed up with ethanol, the good stuff. Probably because if you knew what was in it, you’d never drink it, especially the cheaper stuff.
Cheers!
I Yawnalot,
Incorrect. My father-in-law makes EXCELLENT wine & spirits (NO methanol or wood alcohol.) When you drink too much you get your standard hangover symptoms.
Exactly right, Mike W. The warning is right there on the pack. The increased likelihood of a painful and premature death from one of the various types cancer is apparently an insufficient deterrent for some people.
No, I don’t think I said anything like that. I said, he smokes em and he would pass on an aspirin…?
Smoking, or stopping, is primarily an emotional situation. Logic doesn’t BEGIN to counter it; only creates more craving. Even though my mom and a close friend died of throat cancer, I couldn’t muster the wherewithal to stop or cut back. After making two posts on the subject today, I want a CIGAR! ( after 10 smoke-free years.)
Wow more fascinating info thanks
Bullshit Hubbard was full of Bullshit
lrh did think of himself as the messiah. he had surveys done about if the cherchies would accept him in that role. i forget the specifics now but he had other potential titles for himself he had surveyed as well.
It is Jehovah’s Witnesses and not Christian Scientists who specifically refuse blood transfusions, based on their interpretation of scripture.
Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the Bible prohibits ingesting blood and that Christians should not accept blood transfusions or donate or store their own blood for transfusion. The belief is based on an interpretation of scripture that differs from that of other Christian denominations.
Wikipedia
Too bad that disgusting old man died and can’t be held responsible for this ridiculous nonsense in 2017…He would most likely be 5150-ed or just straight up sent to prison for fraud, etc. Miscavige should be prosecuted for fraud, etc. NOW. And kidnap and assault. Since when does a tax exempt status make breaking the law okay? Hope the tax exempt status is taken away. This is obviously BS. This whole cult thing…how does this continue in present time? It is surrealistic that at this very moment people are locked up in California as well as on some ship. WTH???. Denied freedom, food and medical help (unless, of course, you are being forced to get an abortion). It is real life sci-fi and it’s freaking illegal. One last thing…Tom Cruise is 100% gross and disgusting and an ego maniac…his acting? Whatever. Travolta’s son might be alive if he had medical help, Cristie Alley. PLEASE. …food/cocaine addict from hell. I keep wondering about what is out of view w/Miscavige…His violence is verified….I wonder if this has gone to the next step? Has anyone died for reasons other than neglect? I keep having the feeling that this man, Miscavige, would not hesitate to ‘eliminate’ people who threaten his current position of power. Screw L. Ron Hubbard. Blessedly, he’s dead. David Miscavige has taken the LRH ball and run straight to insanity with it. WHERE ARE THE MISSING SCIENTOLOGIST MEMBERS?
+1
“WHERE ARE THE MISSING SCIENTOLOGIST MEMBERS?”
I’d hazard that many of them are here and/or in the Bunker.
The ones who are truly out don’t have a need to pay any attention to it or its undeniable disintegration.
Has anyone ever looked into John Travolta’s son who died? Did the church intervene with his mental health care and treatment?
The further and further I get into this research I am saddened by the fact that intelligent and responsible people actually believe this. The ONLY way I can fathom this happening is all members are brain washed and trained to be gullible. Cancer being caused only under these circumstances because he states it on a piece of paper doesn’t make it so. I am certain that there are many many other facts LRH has stated are fact, but why is common sense not allowed by Scientology. You keep up the faith and keep at the ***##+&!!!!
I guess my brain just isn’t wired for Scientology speak, because I can make no sense of anything LRH ever wrote!
Barbara, I have the same problem and I have a higher IQ and no problems reading/studying anything else.
Lucky you! So many people surely must wish they had a brain wired like yours.
Why wasn’t Yvonne Jentzsch allowed by LRH to see her children when she was dying of a brain tumor? If we are to believe what he has written here, the fact that he separated her from her children was what caused her cancer so he had the power to cure it too right? Hmmm….
Assuming Tubby’s pronouncements are truth is what started this whole mess. Nothing good comes from starting with a demonstrably false premise.
I can’t say for a statistical fact, but it seems like there are an inordinate percentage of Scios who die of cancer as compared to other causes. If so, it’s no coincidence. At the first sign of a serious ailment, they first turn to Hubbard’s quackery, and only opt for standard medical treatment as a last resort. By then it’s often too late. Sad, Criminal. Despicable.
Disagree, Murray Luther. Many Scientologists smoke. Especially the OTs. They think its fine. I’ve asked some of them, “Why do you smoke?”. Not one of them answered, “Because I’m addicted to nicotine”, which is the ONLY reason ANYONE smokes, and I am an ex smoker, so I know. Twenty years, smoked my brains out, and finally quit cold turkey. Its the addiction to nicotine which is why they’re better off with nicotine gum or a patch if they can’t kick it. At least this way they’re not getting the carcinogenic chemicals from the paper continuously into their bloodstream.
There is a knock out book which I have read 3x by a girl who actually died, flat lined on the machines, crossed over and came back. Utterly riveting story, I saw in on TV as well. Highly recommended reading.
She conquered her cancer ! The book is DYING TO BE ME.
https://www.amazon.com/Dying-Be-Me-Journey…/dp/1401937535
For sure, a brilliant story. It was not only covered internationally, skeptical medical doctors flew in to see the evidence. They left, convinced. She left the hospital about three or four weeks later, totally cured of her ravaging cancer, no signs left.
Karen, I love and honor your work, but I’m afraid that I have to be a contrarian here.
Cancer does go away on its own sometimes, the phenomenon is known as spontaneous remission, and in some types of early cancer is actually quite common. Plus Moorjani was receiving chemotherapy that is pretty effective at treating the type of cancer that she reportedly had (there seems to be some question about her diagnosis).
Near death experiences (NDEs) are a phenomenon that has a number of causes, including when pilots are exposed to high g-forces that disrupt the flow of blood in the brain, mechanically similar to what happens when the heart stops. People’s beliefs seem to affect how they report the experiences afterwards; Indians sometimes say they have seen Yamraj, the Hindu god of the dead, while westerners tend to report angels.
thegman77, Moorjani only claims that one doctor came to review her records, a Dr. Peter Ko from USC – except that no one seems to be able to identify him and verify his credentials. The elaborated description that you relayed sounds similar to the ones that Hubbard wrote up.
Yes, it’s a brilliant story. As in story. The book Dianetics has quite a few of them, recounting similar details and supposed corroboration.
Now for an account from one of the doctors who actually treated her:
“Oncologist haematologist T.K. Chan was one of those who treated Moorjani last February when she was admitted to the Hong Kong Sanatorium Hospital and says she was close to death.
Chan and the other specialists tapped her chest to drain her lungs, which he says probably saved her life. They then began chemotherapy, a treatment she had refused for 3 1/2 years.
‘Hodgkin’s disease is quite curable,’ says Chan. ‘It can have a dramatic response to chemotherapy. If it had been another cancer patient in her state, I wouldn’t have expected her to survive, but with lymphoma, it’s never too late.
‘Whether the spiritual experience helped, I’m not in a position to say. Let’s just say she did do a little better than expected as a patient who was critically ill. It was a remarkable recovery. But I feel it was the chemotherapy, definitely, and the emergency draining of the chest.”
http://www.scmp.com/article/580612/remarkable-recovery-was-it-mind-over-matter-or-modern-science
Anita Moorjani, Dying To Be Me. I bought her book and read it. Then met her when I recognised her in a local restaurant in the Los Angeles Southbay. Incredible story, documented by her doctors how she went from being at deaths door to being cancer free.
https://www.amazon.com/Dying-Be-Me-Journey-Healing/dp/1401937535
A *Huge* amount of OT 7s and OT 8s develop cancer, some progress towards terminal. So their 2d (family, sex, children) losses were never handled ? After 1/2 million dollars to the cult ?
\
Karen I don’t believe it is 2D out ethics or O/W. I believe it is the human body trying to reproduce itself on foreign dead animal matter contaminated with artificial hormones. It is almost unconscious for a person to go through life fearing they may get cancer. LRH’s so called definition of it is a lie but what would he know if he wrote it? Let’s just give the man credit for Dianetics and Scientology. 🙂
🙂
Lawrence, cancer in humans goes back WAY before artificial hormones. Therefore, your theory is false. Cancer has MANY documented causes.
That is true. Many artists painting with nude women in them from hundreds of years ago showed dimples and lumps on the breasts, such is the observance of some of the great masters. I remember that from a documentary years ago about what an artist actually sees when they paint or draw. Some are more realistic that others.
Fascinating I Yawn. I can attest to the extreme detail of many of the paintings after viewing many of the greats from the Renaissance.
So does LRH statement that “man is responsible for his own condition” tell us why LRH had a stroke???
The actual statement, posted in ALL ethics offices in very large letters, is: “You are totally responsible for the condition you are in.” I find that quite true. However, what he really meant, and turned it into, was “You are totally GUILTY (or TO BLAME_ for the condition you are in.” Whatever condition I am in, I’m the one best suited to take responsibility for it and, hopefully, DO something about it if possible. Responsibility and Blame are opposites.
I am obviously “never been in” as evidenced by my dumb questions- but reading this article about clusters – then are engrams clustered together causing cancer, according to Hubbard?
Thank you.
I believe it is coming to be or already is mainstream medical theory that it is stress that causes some sort of formation of whatever cancer is (all I know is that it is the generation of cells which destroy other cells in the body). Apparently, if you drink 300 glasses of orange juice everyday, you increase your risk of cancer – from that orange juice. My heart rate will go up when I am nervous. That is, I would guess, stress. Just for grins: I have found I can “pretend to be falling asleep”, just to myself, and lower my heart beat by 15% easily, just by making myself “feel sleepy”. I have lots of experience with conditions of just barely able to keep my eyes open, so it’s not hard to recall that state. Still, physical activity will raise a heart rate and I’m not sure if anyone can counteract that. The point is that stress is a contributor to many ills, including fingers caught in doors, dishware broken, and so on. My guess is that much of Scientology processes these days are run incorrectly. HOW, would be case-specific. The whole thing was set up to be “so simple a caveman could do it”, but it has to be done the way it was set up. Changes to the original Bridge probably have caused a lot of problems, because you get stuff run out-gradient (teach algebra to a fifth grade class is out-gradient), but I suspect another major source of problems and stress, are uncorrected errors. The auditing environment MUST be one in which the preclear is free to speak whatever is on his mind, and in the current Co$ environment, that lands one in the sham of “ethics” there, which is very stressful, I have read. And of course the preclear or pre-OT never gets to run what was bothering him, so that sits there as an uncorrected error.
I have to say the level of stress added to my life — to this day — will likely cause some form of cancer at some point. I was the child of a CLEAR man ther who also was OT. I didn’t sign up for Scientology. My mom did. She was at FLAG, and I was by association brought to Clearwater where I became a prisoner. The stress if their mind games, child labor, and holding me against my will because I wasn’t interested brought far more stress than if Hubbard had never existed . Regardless of what I was put through at age 7 (the facts caused my mom to blow with the help of the FBI in 1977), the point is if stress causing cancer in any way is your way of finding a validation of auditing, the harm done by the followers of Hubbard creates a volume of stress inexcusable for any humane group to espouse or impose on other living beings. I am a survivor of child labor abuse and torture. There is no excuse for what Scientology does and no merit to look for any value to apply in one’s life. Get away from it.
No, the engrams don’t hang in clusters, the BT’s do. You see, a BT has engrams but an engram can’t have BT’s because an engram isn’t a thetan. BT’s are thetans who are messed up and they’re all over you. I hope this has helped you with your understanding.
RogerHornaday & thegman – thank you! I don’t think I could ever be in SoC because I’m not intelligent enough to understand the difference between “engram” & a (the lisp tatic helps here ;)- “thetans”…it’s waaay to confusing. It seems to me that SoC may be a cult but the members (ex, current) are very intelligent ppl who quest for the deeper meanings in life than I could fathom! My hat is off to all of you who spent ages studying all this………stuff. Too bad it was for naught…you guys could of been rocket scientists …or something.
Barbet – No one can assimilate what you’re trying to assimilate without some study. With study, it would be easy for you. The conceptual grasp you are imagining is real, and obtainable, but you’re looking at the entire spectrum of aberration in individuals, and trying to put it together from a blog that isn’t even about technical aspects of Scientology. It took 15 years to develop! It takes about four years to study it all.
Ah yes, “the entire spectrum of aberrations in the individual”. And a nasty mess it is too. All those aberrations making us do aberrated things! We need to find a way to deal with them. Obviously scientology isn’t doing the job. Look at all those aberrated CLEARS and OT’s. Look at Hubbard himself! What are we gonna do???
But wait, you know that Gilbert and Sullivan song, “If everybody is somebody then nobody is anybody”? Well, since an aberration is something that isn’t normal or typical, and everybody has aberrations then maybe nobody is aberrated, they’re just the way they are naturally. And we can just make friends with our human foibles. We might as well make friends with them because they OBVIOUSLY aren’t going anywhere!
Barbet, scamology “tech” is something like, take Alice in Wonderland, add Buck Rodgers then flavor with copious amounts of LSD.
There is nothing there to really understand other than it is a scam that doesn’t work.
Not engrams, Barbet, but clusters of BTs (body thetans) and being uninitiated in Hubbard’s hightly confusing make believe, your question is hardly “dumb”! 🙂
Written in 1990? It loses relevance. Hubbard advised seeking medical treatment more medical ills. Joe Shmoe can listen to that, or he can pretend he didn’t hear it. More importantly, he can pretend he has no power of rational thought, no power of deduction, himself. That pretended disability is what Scientology is all about “curing”.
The whole thing is such a moot point, to personal ethics. You either have control of your own life, or you don’t. Scientology’s entire purpose is to unravel the mess of other-determinism a being is in. Don’t you think you’re other-determined? What did your parents tell you? What did you learn in grammar school? High school? College? Didn’t you regurgitate what you were told? I could come close to challenging anyone to tell me something they have done recently that is not the result of culture or education. Multiply two three digit numbers, and look at how you do it the way you were taught. Most of what we’re told and taught is good stuff, based on philosophy and religion, arts, mathematics and grammar going back ages. That, too, tries to set you free, but you have to take it yourself. Some Joe can read a book and can’t really tell you what it was about. Another Joe can read it and check other sources to confirm it, and lecture on it to people who did not get it. You have to take it for yourself, and Hubbard always said that. Contrast what we have here in the U.S. with indoctrination and oppression in dark countries – dark for the want of independent thought and personal ethics, dark for telling their populations what they must think, dark for the fogginess of individual’s minds, dark for their adopted and irrational goals and purposes.
That is a matter of personal ethics. Listen or not, it won’t change that fact. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. Scientology is there to drink from, not drown in.
” … medical treatment FOR medical ills.” (I cut part of a sentence to rephrase and missed “more”. He also advised “more” auditing and training, but not as a substitute for getting a broken arm set or checking an irregular heart beat or treating a weird looking skin splotch that is growing quickly. Take one thing out of context and you make a mistake.)
There is a lot of Scientology that has stayed with me these past 35 years since I’ve been ‘out’. I was not badly burned while in, so I have a different viewpoint than a lot of people on this blog. I’ve recently , since watching the Aftermath series, been following this blog and others. It has been an eye-opener. Some of the information is new (there was no NOTS or Solo NOTS in my past), some is not. I appreciate seeing how people are coping with this subject. I’m glad I left when I did, as it seems the organization took a left turn as I was leaving and it never recovered.
Right. A number of people have noted that it was in 1976 or around 1976 that the church took a left turn. One guy a while back noted that that period of time was the 10% a month price increase that went unchecked, and more than doubled the price of everything. A Class VIII C/S and I were talking about how Grades V and VA, R6EW, and the CC were dropped off the Bridge with the advent of Dianetic Clear (I call it “Declared Clear”). I was blabbing, and he summed it up (paraphrasing pretty closely): ~~ Of all the cases I’ve C/Sed through R6EW and the CC, not one has ever had a single complaint. Not. One.~~ [end paraphrase]. But today, oh, heck, I hear people talking about being on Solo NOTs for years – three to five years. And many complaints, as people on this blog and Marty Rathbun’s blog have registered.
Nickname, as it turns out I am quite happy with the Bridge that I did in 1974-75. Up to OT VII. Followed by partial SHSBC. I noticed that people varied in their reactions to various levels; one person might yawn at Power, but be completely blown away by R6Ew, or vice versa. Back then, the tech was pretty standard that I experienced. I’m shocked to now learn about some of the changes, for instance auditing sessions being recorded. SEC checking being charged for (in the rare event of a sec check back then, it was free as I recall). No auditing since then but feeling good. Happy I wasn’t dragged down into the mud by what followed.
Spike – If you read this: I’ve gotten a ton of mileage out of the simple admin scale. Read Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics, and you see how he was talking about all the activities of Man. Get Creed and Wardman’s translation, in “The Philosophy of Aristotle”. There’s one sentence in Book One, Chpt 6 that gives the true meaning (not made clear in other translations based on Oxford). That sentence is critical: “Good, then, would be used in two senses: good as an end in itself, and good as a means.” That’s Ethics, the be-do-have of life and living. All admin scales (the means) interrelate, from breakfast, to going to work, to work, to months, to life plans, to after-life plans; on four flows. I did OT VII as well, and I find it a stable platform, but I also find that one has to make, construct or create, one’s own life; formulate one’s own personal ethics. That is outside the purview of Scn. i.e. Scn does not evaluate. Scns who stayed in or got in after around 1980, ridge like a porcupine having a bad day on the word “ethics” because they mistook the organizational ethics of the church (which were grossly misused to boot), as a substitute or even a definition of their own personal ethics. So they have no idea what I could possibly be talking about. To me it seems that the ultimate failure of the organization came about because individuals did not define and develop their own personal ethics, were not encouraged to do so. A former EO posted long ago that the ethics tech was available, but was not used.
Nickname, first, I admire your inquisitive reading. If you really want to get into Hubbard’s sources, try cracking something like Korzybski’s Science and Sanity, which is billed as an introduction to non-Aristotelian systems. I’m sure there is some other source material for Hubbard’s “ethics,” though I can’t think of it right now.
From what I can tell, the issues with “ethics” and other things go back at least to the Apollo under Hubbard (the period that also produced the Responsibilities of Leaders, as recently discussed), it just took a while for the Sea Org to come ashore and bring that to the orgs and eventually even he missions, though there are also reports of ethics going awry at St. Hill in the mid 1960s when Hubbard was there. Also, that take on ethics really has roots that go back to the Manual of Justice of 1959, if not earlier, including, along the way, the 1965 pronouncement about “Kha-Khans” who could be allowed to get away with murder so long as their statistics were high. And several major figures left largely or at least in part due to dissatisfaction with what “ethics” was becoming in the mid to late 1960s, including Jack Horner and John McMaster.
And individuals were not merely “not encouraged” to develop their own ethics, they were actively discouraged and even punished for doing so, sometimes brutally.
P.S. As to changes in the Bridge, did you know the SHSBC is no longer offered? The OEC vols. are no longer in course rooms? An F/N has been redefined?
Nickname, this is truly an eyeful. I will look up the Aristotle reference.
I am floored by the changes you mentioned, but of course things have obviously been going very well for a long time. I haven’t stepped into an org since 1982. Wow, sad …
*NOT been going well* I meant to say …
Glad you caught the post, Spike. Didn’t mean to load up on you, but had to squeeze a lot in. Try http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=41348&start=3525 It’s a thread on “Operation Clambake” under “Opinions & Debate” on the board index. Hold onto your gut before you go there, though. In a way, I almost want to say something like ~~ don’t worry, just find comm lines to training and auditing … try http://tech.lifeenhance.org/ there’s a clean and not very busy blog.
There’s an online to Aristotle http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/nicomachaen.1.i.html translated by Ross, who gets the one sentence much as Oxford does: “Clearly, then, goods must be spoken of in two ways, and some must be good in themselves, the others by reason of these.” Creed and Wardman are much more to the point (as in my previous post). For an intro to Aristotle I recommend Joe Sachs https://books.google.com/books/about/Nicomachean_Ethics.html?id=vlgwBQAAQBAJ&source=kp_cover His notes and glossary are gold. Aristotle spoke Ancient Greek, which has syntax differences from English, and is often translated into English via Latin, so it takes a bit to get used to.
Hubbard read all this (wrote a lot of philosophy himself), but the focus of Scientology is data and auditing. It is up to the individual to fill in for himself. Hubbard’s sense of humor is v-a-s-t-l-y underappreciated (just my joke there, obviously open to interpretation). People read “Axioms of Scientology” and after a while, amazingly, come to think it says “Axioms of Life”. It does not say that. It says very plainly, “Axioms of Scientology”. Does that spin you? It shouldn’t. It’s print on a page. Plain as day. But ask a Scn about good and bad, and he’s likely, in my experience, to quote Axiom 31, thinking, perhaps, that it is an axiom of life. (Ask Mike Rinder if it’s all a matter of opinion – I bet the look on his face would be worth it.) This about Ethics wouldn’t be of such immediate importance, if it were not for the abysmal behavior we have witnessed, and continue to witness.
You have a way of making things impenetrably significant.
No, it does not say Axioms “of Scientology” in Advanced Procedures and Axioms — they are simply “The Axioms”, with a preface that says: It should be borne in mind that these actually form epistemology, the science of knowledge. These cannot but embrace various fields and sciences. That is the ACTUAL black and white words on the page.
There are many other places where Hubbard says scientology is the study of life, that scientology transcends all life and explains all life etc etc
Not sure what you are going on about, and it probably doesn’t matter, but if you could see the look on my face when I try to grasp the point that you make, it would surprise you. And I have never quoted Axiom 31 to anyone in my life.
Nickname, I appreciate your references and your viewpoint. It takes awhile to look up stuff as there is so many articles, videos, etc. I’m interested in the concept of a freezone, will continue to look around and see what’s in my area. Sadly all our basic books were lost in a basement flood some years ago, but after all this time I once again have the urge to read and connect to … something or someone.
Mike – (Do you think that good and bad are a matter of opinion only?)
A lot of people seem to have gotten very wrapped up in Scientology, at the expense of their other Dynamics (at the expense of their “normal life”). Some posters here have wondered how a good person could get stuck in a cult. Others have expressed their realization that they had had enough, and finally saw that the church was nuts. I think you, yourself, would agree that too many individuals have taken Scientology as “themselves” and followed orders and impaired their own lives as individuals; forsaken themselves, if you will.
What I am hypothesizing (because I’m pretty sure of it myself), is that the “mistake” is treating Scn as senior to life itself. It is the same mistake the people claiming to be against the Second Amendment make, wrongly asserting that guns kill. A gun by itself will never kill anyone It has no causal force of its own. The same can be said for any science, that it can be used for good or for bad. It is the same for Scientology. No science is ever purfekt, it would seem; there are always improvements. Even the light bulb.
It seems that if this were an easy point to make and state in a sentence or two, then more people would realize it: Scientology is a study, an inquiry BY AN INDIVIDUAL, into causes and effects IN LIFE. That means, not only in HIS life, but in others as well. It is NOT the individual’s determinism, and he should not allow others, Scns or not, in the church or out, to be his determinism.
There are shades of grey and exceptions to that, many of them, but I hope the proposition is clear, that, for example, “I’m not going to do as YOU say with MY important decisions in MY life.” Not that you don’t have some good ideas, or that I wouldn’t agree to pepperoni even though I’d prefer ham on a pizza. The proposition has to be stated somehow, then exceptions can be noted. Not that most of us do not simply do as we are told in many respects. I wear pants, not skirts. But don’t say that to a Scot!
LRH seems to draw attention as “a determinant” in people’s lives. When he says, “Jump”, people ask “How high?” on the way up. This gets pretty deep, in history, in thought, in life. It gets very very contentious – all the way contentious. (Why??) How is it that men of philosophical and religious stature in history are attacked and murdered, martyred, by the very people they are trying to help? Why wouldn’t those who disagree just walk away? Why turn and publicly, in “grand ceremony”, murder a man who was trying to teach truth? My hypothesis is simple: the people who attack have very little sense of life themselves, very little self-determinism. The people they murder were trying to strengthen self-determinism in the people who publicly murdered them. Not all great teachers have been murdered, but far too many have been.
By contrast: you find entire armies following obvious tyrants on paths of wanton destruction. You find mobs rioting, destroying lives of merchants who supplied them with their food and clothes and necessities. (Why??) Of course you can counter, as you did, that it’s just as foolish to blame every Nazi for ever having followed Hitler. And there is some truth to that. Scientology provides answers to these very very confusing questions.
Yes, Scientology covers, necessarily, many fields, because it deals with causes and effect in life itself. But it is a study of causes and effects, and it is a methodology for resolving aberration. It is not life itself. Only an individual lives. An individual can be motivated, deeply moved, by what he makes of Scientology, and dedicate his life to what he believes is the pursuit of it, just as monks and priests have dedicated their lives to their religions. But that motivation is of the individual himself. Especially in Scientology, an individual must look, evaluate, and certainly if he is moved, if he sees causes and effects himself, he may dedicate his life to it, but he MUST establish his own goals and purposes, formulate his own policies, and pursuit it always of his own motivation. Then he can evaluate his own progress on his terms, and can evaluate wrong directions as well as right ones.
Ad hominem addresses the individual – in any form. I do not want to turn upon my own convictions and feelings there by saying “The difference between you and me … etc.” so I call your attention to that before saying (somewhat overstated)” “I don’t care what Hubbard said, and I don’t care about frogs with ribbons, and I don’t care about photography. I care about what I see is true.”
I am trying to formulate my own policies incorporating my own understandings (what else can anyone do?). But I look at this notion of eternity staring me in the face, every “moment in time”, and billions of individuals who cannot explain causes and effects and have no solutions other than what the have been told, I look at all my whole-track GLARING “errors” and confusions, and my reaction is “Gulp!”
Maybe I could have said all the above with just a question: “What do you plan to do for the rest of eternity?” (To some people, the immediate answer is “Make a lot of money and go to the movies!”)
Nickname, I know that you’ve asked a question of Mike, but I’d like to ask something that I think may clarify matters.
Didn’t Hubbard himself effectively position Scientology as senior to life, particularly with policies like KSW? And in the example where Hubbard personally controlled his captive audience of people on the Apollo, with virtually no possibility of being granted permission to leave or escaping, and all sorts of punishments and indoctrination being imposed, wasn’t he demonstrating Scientology as senior to life?
There are of course places where Hubbard seems to speak to lofty ideals that are different, but those are exceptions to what he actually practiced and what he imposed on his followers. Whether we should regard those exceptions as having some special meaning or applying just to some special group of people, or consider that they can be disregarded as the cunning deceptions of a psychopath intent on luring people in with ideals and then exploiting them for his own satisfaction, is a complex question for another time.
Spike –
As you know, it IS “eternity” (really, it is being). It’s still wild, in a manner of speaking. A funny thing, a real teaser in a big way (for me) to put together some kind of plan of one’s own. Being? Being, how? And why? (It’s an old question … story is, long ago Harvard put it on one of their philosophy exams, a final exam. A bright and bold girl wrote a simple answer in one minute, handed it in, smiled, and walked out. She got an A+. Her answer was, “Why not?”) In reality, in nuts and bolts, I think one is looking at: “An admin scale for being??” Being an auditor is an excellent proxy, but I think one should try to understand why, for oneself, in one’s own universe, to truly create the session, along with the PC. The hierarchy of influence is: philosophy and religion, the arts, and the sciences.
One notion I’ve thought of for a while seems simple: I wonder what it would be like to have one or two more IQ points? An IQ is somewhat arbitrary, but you get the idea of a bit higher awareness. What would the world look like? Life, apparently, is a bit like that. A small difference upwards, hopefully, can be repeated or improved on, and that, apparently, is the game. And to understand why is, I’d say, a real teaser, something like trying to conceive of Creation out of “nothing”. Why Creation??
This isn’t “above Scientology”, it’s more like the goal of Scientology: total freedom. And these thoughts aren’t new ones. It’s just that Scn delivers. The potential to see, to consider, to formulate, is delivered. But Scn doesn’t prescribe beyond “Train and audit!” An excellent proxy, but as a science, and to achieve that goal of total freedom for an individual, Scn does not prescribe the individual’s own personal ethics. That, personal ethics, like Ethics, is left to the individual to sort out, and define.
We don’t have much, apparently, of what Socrates wrote and thought, but it is said, and written, that someone once asked him, “Socrates, what is ‘good’?” His reply was, “I don’t know what good is … but I dearly hope I am!” Socrates was one v-e-r-y smart and v-e-r-y capable man! In the Greek tradition there, of philosophy, from Socrates to Plato, and from Plato to Aristotle, I think Aristotle heard that reply, and thought about it. When Aristotle thought about something …! I liken it to two sides of a steel vise of logic closing in on, and holding, an answer. And I think he improved on it. If there is a good way to do something, a good means to achieve an end, if there is improvement possible to find a better way to achieve the same end, then that means that “good” is definable. And “better” is definable. It does exist. Going back to Socrates, it is definable in the individual, by the individual, as an integrity with Creation. That means, coming to understand, and know, Creation. And there is Scientology, which defines being, precisely, and there is the study of knowledge.
One or two more IQ points at a time. It may seem small, just an increment. Maybe 10% of an IQ point more. The difference between just waking up, opening a refrigerator and wondering what one wanted, and the fully awake state of being ready to go, operating at one’s normal capacity. I’ve met OT’s much smarter and more able than I. Disconcerting in a way, but a comfort in another. Using “we” loosely, in colloquial terms: We DO win this. Because we want to.
What could bring more happiness than understanding Creation, bit by bit? Being in integrity with Creation, as oneself? Finding goals for oneself? Yes, philosophy and religion, yes, other men’s thoughts, but no greater joy than finding one’s own, and truly understanding others.
Apologies if I’m overbearing, but it’s like finding a great new restaurant: it’s hard to resist telling someone you know! Also look into a field called (variously) the history of sociology and sciences. It deals with technology and discoveries in general. The standard sized screw, for example, did not always exist. That came into being in the U.S. sometime in the 1800’s, IIRC. We take it for granted today, but look at how it transformed society. A Jesuit priest taught me that and much more in college, and it has never been far from my mind. And neither has he.
It takes time to learn all. And then there’s always more. All you can eat, baby! All you can eat!
Nickname, you are very prolific. Thank you for your thoughts. Perhaps you could start your own blog?!
I think it is very true that one creates their own ethics. Without that, you have a crappy life.
Not sure what point you are trying to make here? That lies and fraud don’t matter because it is “personal ethics” that should determine whether you listen or ignore what is said? I THINK that is what you are trying to say. Though I am not 100% certain.
How do you feel about the German people following Hitler? His madness should be excused because it’s a matter of personal ethics and nobody had to listen to him? There is of course some truth to that assertion. But it is a pretty fatalistic view of the world. Don’t call out the lies and the fraud and the evil because everyone has a choice as to whether they want to follow.
But maybe I am too stupid to understand what you are trying to say here and I have it all wrong…
Sorry. I wrote a bit fast. Channeling James Joyce maybe.
Hubbard consistently said to seek medical advice for a medical problem. That doesn’t invalidate the rest of what he said about how diseases or ailments are caused by aberrations. I have not had a common cold in many years – actually, the last one I had was 2003 (mild). I know some will perhaps try to make fun of that, maybe call it “a placebo” or a “delusion”. I do, however, expect this body to die someday, hopefully many decades from now.
Most of us do as we are told, whether we like to admit that or not. A different aspect of behavior is that a lot of us follow impulses, and a lot of us wake up deceived and/or regretful. Rather than go all the way to Hitler, I’d go to what happens with a mob. It’s not dissimilar. Hitler probably played on “mob impulses” to cause destruction.
But Scientology is not an incitement to mob violence or riot. It is based on – and Hubbard made ample reference to this – thousands of years of philosophy and religion. You wrote what you said clearly and understandably, but here it is I who have some difficulty understanding the thought of the (very thin) similarities you may be drawing or alluding to, or really, why. I do not see “the lies and the fraud and the evil” in Scientology. What I do see is misunderstanding and misapplication.
Not to stray too far from topic, but imagine for a moment that … oh, goodness, I don’t know which names to use that would have sound reference … imagine that Karen de la Carriere, David Mayo, Heber Jentzsch [however you spell that] and some of the many other well-intentioned and competent Scientologists who were at St. Hill before being “declared”, were running the show at the church. (I exclude your name, for obvious reasons that you would be unlikely to protest yourself – it might be an interesting prepcheck item, though.) Would you still be protesting? What would you be protesting? Along with many others?
Touchy ground here, to not offend any religious beliefs, but … ok … so what if there is indeed a Force, and the Jedi Knights will rescue us? What if perception of the spirits who inhabit all living things makes a better life? What if “space opera” is reality? Philosophy and religion all have influences far beyond what most consider in everyday life buying groceries. The scope contemplated is beyond what most consider. A lot of philosophers were mathematicians. What did they see in numbers? Super Bowl LI. There is a way to do multiplication in Roman Numerals, but someone way back when reasoned out what we call the decimal system. And they were probably “frowned upon” and it probably took several “acts of Congress” and many years before the decimal system escaped opprobrium. Today, my bet is that a lot of people Googled “LI” to find out what that is supposed to mean.
I do not see how it possible to make all the discoveries of Dianetics and Scientology, and not try to explain how far-reaching they are. Breaking out of all the agreements one assumes are “[unchangeable] reality”, seeing them for what they are, leaves one in a lot of wonder.
There are so very many realities, and it isn’t an easy matter to see them, or relate them. All of them involve personal ethics. One entire complex of realities is the human body. Is there a being, a life, in every cell? There’s DNA or genetic instruction in a seed. And given good soil and weather, it will grow. But what animates it? To fault Hubbard the being, and attempt to discount and dismiss his discoveries, on the single basis that his body malfunctioned and died is a bit of “selective reality”, isn’t it? He never said he would live forever in his current body. Forever isn’t quite here yet, but to date, out of untold billions, no one has lived that long.
If Hubbard had simply said “Well, you know, life is pretty much as we know it to be, but Dianetics can make you a bit more comfortable”, if he had understated everything to plain vanilla … heck, we’d probably have accusations of “withholding critical information relevant to every man, woman, and child on this planet, all in order to maintain a secret society of super-intelligent beings” and exclude all but the 1% intellectual elite, and take over the world. And maybe even a Congressional investigation to find out who Xenu is because he might still pose a threat to national security. And Hubbard would have spent half his time justifying his decision to downplay everything to the level of another basketball game, swearing he was not trying to hide his discoveries.
Thanks for trying to clarify. All a bit hypothetical and dense for me to follow I am afraid. You think that Hubbard’s claims about cancer are misunderstandings and misapplications — not lies and fraud? Do I understand you correctly?
Mike – The way I read the piece Hubbard wrote, even if he scrapped it in 1954 or ’56 and it was un-scrapped after his death, is simply an exploration into individual cells and body functions. I have some sketchy information that he got interested in biology, and he quipped something cautioning students to not being alarmed of they saw bullfrog with different colored ribbons around their neck hopping down the halls at St Hill. To me, it seems entirely conceivable that what he wrote about is very relevant, but I do not take it as medical advice of any kind. I just note that, since I read it here, even though I don’t find it relevant to my studies in Grades processes, it may be that something about stressing cells make them push back in a “not surrender” mode and mutate into a new form of cell we all cancer. I put it together with the little I have picked up about various forms of cancer. And it doesn’t seem entirely implausible to me that IF the body’s “sole creative impulse” is to procreate, then obviously problems on that line would stress it. I just make a note of it and file it away. That’s what I meant about personal ethics. Some would call it common sense, Hubbard probably would refer to it as judgement. You somehow did help me clarify what I was trying to say.(!) (What’re you? … Psychic or something? Don’t you need a license for that?)
I was about to post this, when I saw your reply, so I’ll post it here:
P.S. I just ignored your “But maybe I am too stupid to understand what you are trying to say here and I have it all wrong…” because that’s ridiculous (I.E. to even consider that you are “stupid”), and I’m sorry if my less than clear post actually made you feel that way or caused any problems. You run rings around me in PR and many other fields as well. It’s a question of interest, which is personal ethics. I am the one who is “stupid” specifically, in that I do not get the game there, in PR or whatever the correct name of the subject is, or I’d have my own blog (I’m not at all sure why I would want one). I’m far enough along to grasp the notion that newspapers print controversial stories and “hot” stories to “incite readership”. There’s “just no money in” biographies of honors students in high school and new flavors of ice-cream. It may seem that I’m trying to oppose you. Ultimately, opposing anyone is irrational. If it were Hubbard who said that, I’m sure Rathbun would take to it and an “absolute” when Hubbard said there are no absolutes. What I am opposed to is the identification of “Hubbard” with “Scientology” with “the current church and all the people in it”. That’s A=A=A to me. I mean, you were in the church, but clearly you are not LRH, and you are not Scientology (I hope, because if I’ve got THAT wrong, then “I think I need a beeger box”, like the chihuahua in the Taco Bell ad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=099eDCE8oYM ). You are not the church and you are not LRH, so why would anyone seek to make it look like you are? By the same token, the people in the church today are not LRH and they are not Scientology. To make them out as identical … “That is not logical, Captain”. I’m looking at “realities”, or personal ethics, and the scope and range is daunting to me, so maybe I’m a little unreal. It’s a bit like looking at seashells on a beach. You see one, four, sixteen … they’re everywhere! Some of them make sense. Some make some sense. Some make no sense at all. I wish I were a Class VIII.
Nickname. L. Fraud NEVER scrapped that. IT was extant tech from when he wrote until today,
He KNEW it was complete bullshit and he foisted it off on his followers anyway. Ergo, he is a criminal that if he was still alive should be jailed for voluntary manslaughter MANY times over.
Nickname, I don’t see where you get anything about Hubbard scrapping that in the mid-1950s. As I quoted him in another comment, he was saying essentially the same thing about cancer in a 1959 talk.
And did Hubbard ever scrap anything? It seems to me that the whole fundamental premise of Scientology is that everything he ever said or wrote was perfect and eternal. There seem to be some cases where some line of early work kind of got dropped and forgotten. But if it’s as relatively late as 1959, and especially if he was repeating something he’d been saying since 1954 or earlier, then it’s got to be timeless “scripture” in Scientological terms, right?
I’d agree with you that A=A=A when it comes to Hubbard, the CofS, and Scientology, is not absolutely true, and we ought to discuss it with a bit more nuance. However, it seems to me that many and quite possibly the majority of us have determined that for all practical intents and purposes, they are so intertwined that they can be treated as equivalent.
There is actually a mathematical symbol for “nearly equal to” that is like an equal sign except that the two lines are wavy. I don’t know that sign will reproduce correctly on a web page, but here’s a shot at redoing that equation using it:
A≈A≈A
My take after long and thorough consideration, is that from day one and book one (Dianetics), Hubbard imprinted his personality, biases, and errors so thoroughly onto the subject (including, later, Scientology) that it would be nearly impossible to separate the two. Hubbard’s narcissistic or psychopathic lack of love and empathy, his fixation with things like abortion and blaming enemies, and his lack of proper research and his failure to keep himself up to date on scientific advances (much less to allow for incorporation of new knowledge after his death) means that his whole approach is skewed, and all the materials such as checklists of questions are flawed. Similarly, the Scientology organizations, including much of the independent community, seem so inextricably bound up in varying degrees of loyalty to Hubbard and religious orthodoxy about his “scriptures” that it is hard to imagine how anything truly sane or workable could be salvaged from that whole scene.
In order to effectively address those problems, one would have to go back and study Hubbard’s sources, and then make an analysis of what few things he did that were actually fundamentally unique, which is effectively the same as starting from scratch – not to mention which, one would also want to take into account over half a century’s worth of advances in psychology, behavioral and brain sciences. Then it would be necessary to do the sort of research trials that Hubbard failed to do, to determine if the revised processes developed produced results were really any better than the placebo effect, and also if they were any more effective than other modern therapies (including new developments that might emerge during the long process of revision, such as the use of brain scans to reveal far more than an e-meter does). That would be decades worth of work requiring hundreds of millions of dollars in funding to produce a properly validated science – with a risk of failing to discover anything that turned that turned out to actually be “workable” and able to be widely applied – and not just a few independents on their e-meters trying out variations and sharing results on chat boards. And then you’d have to deal with the whole organizational mess, including Scientology corporations that would fight any revision to the bitter end using the courts and all “fair game” measures available or else, if they collapsed, would probably have all their resources tied up in the courts for decades with their assets drained by legal settlements and lawyers’ fees.
I think we can see why a lot of us have decided that the subject is beyond salvage, and why even many of the independents with some remaining optimism seem to be going back to just the original basics of simple “book one” auditing – and at that, are probably doing so using revisions to correct for Hubbard’s errors.
P.S. It’s late for me. Sorry for all the typos and dropped words. Sloppy of me.
So Lron spouted that drivel in 1954 and it took until 1990 for $cienoland to put it into print? Had the FDA seen that when they went after $cientology in 1966, would they have imposed harsher penalties? Probably not, that little sticker on the emeter fixed everything, didn’t it?
$cientology now has another Wikipedia page. Called, “Scientology controversies”, you can learn more about many of the ‘controversies’. I love that so many of the clam crimes can now be accessed on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversies
OUT OF THEIR FUCKING MINDS. I’m pretty sure that covers it.
succinct and on point!
I remember reading the 2nd Dynamic/Cancer cause thing early on. L. Fraud, because he didn’t really research KNEW he was lying when he wrote that and he KNEW his followers would believe thus trying to use auditing instead of correct medical treatment o handle cancer and would probably DIE as a result. For this alone, if he were alive, he deserves the death penalty.
And ANYONE now shoving this dangerous crap, now that they are notified, off on anyone is also criminally culpable.
Captive audience tech. Hubbard’s captive audience had to buy Hubbard’s crank research, or else.
Martin Gardner’s “Fads and Fallacies” book, the other chapters not the Hubbard chapters, goes into why crank/crackpots have faithful followers to the crank/crackpot founder’s continued “research” into further crank quackery. Once the crank followers get going, the crank founder gets all nutty paranoid make-wrong and the follows either stay aboard and bolster the crank founder or smartly eventually disembark. The old Captive Audience tech thing is part of being a quack follower’s duty.
Or it makes a founder who was a nutty paranoid make-wrong type to begin with, even more so. I think there is plenty of evidence from the late 1940s and just the first year or two of Dianetics, including Hubbard’s wildly conspiratorial letters to the FBI, to prove what sort of person he was from the beginning.
I had forgotten Gardner’s book, even though it is old and thus somewhat outdated in terms of how understanding has advanced in group and organizational dynamics, and psychology and brain science, I will have to re-read it because it is an example of what Scientologists could have known had they looked a bit more broadly for answers and “read a book.” Thanks.
Devil’s Advocate Alert:
Agreed that Hubbard’s early claim to understanding the true cause of cancer along with his other claims that Dianetics could cure all manner of bodily ills sounds quite unscientific and in the crackpot category.
But then, Christianity’s Jesus Christ is also “on record” via the New Testament as having physically cured many people of their ailments, leprsy, blindness and so forth, and even of having raised the dead, and many Christians I know – who would automatically seek medical assistance for their body problems – believe this that Jesus Christ did this, and have no problem with it, and never, to my knowledge query the “research” that Jesus might have done
And don’t get me wrong; I’m not saying that Jesus Christ did NOT do all these healing miracles! I’m NOT saying that! Maybe he did! Maybe he could!That’s not the point.
The point is, that multitudes of people BELIEVE that its possible that 2 thousand years ago a certain man could and did cure the ill and the lame and the halt – they just believe it, that’s all. A number of people wrote it down and said he could, and that he did.
Which is fine. They’ve invested a person, or a being, if you will, in having had the power to do this.
So, what’s so strange about Scientologists investing in L. Ron Hubbard the power to understand what causes cancer? What’s the big deal about LRH claiming that Dianetics cured all kinds of body problems?
After all, he wrote it down. He said it happened. He said the power to do it was there, for anyone to use.
Do you see what I’m getting at, here?
How many of you, truly and for real, need actual PROOF of something in order to believe it?
False Analogy Alert.
Apples and scorpions Aqua.
Thank you for this article. The cancer/2D connection is not something I had a ready reference for. It’s good to get this caliber of BS exposed. (do we know if it’s published somewhere else also, an HCOB?)
If I could be ‘out’ and have a soapbox, I’d really like to pound these points regarding illness.
The scn doctrine and culture has many negative opinions and rules, “tech” “laws” regarding illness, and it has a zero track record of being able to cure anyone. There is no evidence of consistent actual cures.
We know the policy on the notice which must be posted in all reception/registrar areas: “if you have come here to be cured” (something about going to a medical doctor and we don’t promise cures)
So we have that as a “legal” cover our ass, but in truth Hubbard/the church/staff think that scn is the only cure possible, that doctors don’t know anything and are harmful, and scn is the answer.
“the spirit alone may save or heal the body” – the Creed.
“PTS Handling
1. That all illness in greater or lesser degree and all foul-ups stem directly and only from a PTS condition.
If that suppression is located and the person handles or disconnects, the condition diminishes. If he also receives Scientology processes which address suppression of the individual and if all such areas of suppression are thus handled, the person would recover from anything caused by “stress.” ”
and then there is this reference:
“FURTHER DATA ON PTS HANDLING
a. To be PTS in the first place, the PTS must have committed harmful, contra-survival acts against the antagonistic source;”
….
One of the 26 rundowns on NOTS addresses NOTS case PTSness. I believe this is the one that mentions cancer, but I’m not sure. Same shit, different angle.
So, all illness is from PTSness, and all PTSness happens after you have overts on someone. Therefore you’re sick and it’s your own fault from things you’ve done.
And we can’t actually cure you, we can only blame you for your own illness.
For me, this is a major area of betrayal. I was dedicated for so long. We are given to believe that going clear as per Dianetics will handle 70% of man’s ills. We have PTS tech to cure us, and the OT levels will make us Cause. Period.
I could put up with the idea that illness stems from ptsness and that I was responsible. Being “cause” and “responsible” made sense if I was to be an all powerful spiritual being.
The truth is that I’ve not been cured of anything and no one I know has. I’ve had many friends die from cancer, heart attacks and strokes. We wear glasses, get arthritis, etc.
These days I have to really grit my teeth and try to keep from mouthing off when I am subjected to the anti-doctor bleatings and how “they don’t know anything, they don’t even know the cause”
Thank, Mike.
This stuff is important.
Be aware, please, that the World Health Organization has ranked the US as #18 in terms of health care. It’s likely #1 in cost. The medical industry fights just about anyone who comes up with new ways to deal with illness. New developments, which often prove out to be right. are routinely called “quackery”. Doctors do not make money on healthy people nor does the huge drug industry.
I find this sentence to be completely offensive:
“Doctors do not make money on healthy people”.
particularly on the heels of this one: “The medical industry fights just about anyone who comes up with new ways to deal with illness”
……..
actually, the medical industry is composed of people. These people have families, friends, and colleagues who get ill and die. Becoming a doctor takes great work, study, ethics, dedication, fortitude and confront. Every single one I’ve met has had their patient’s best interests at heart. I have close personal friends in this industry and I’ve seen the tears over a lost patient, I’ve seen the hours kept, the meals left by an on-call surgeon, AND the constant study of new techniques and developments.
….
I would be dead without the doctor’s care I’ve received over the years.
Your statements are harmful and rude.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart SFN. I would also be remiss if I didn’t point out to thegman that a great deal of the health care in our country is dictated by insurance companies, and yes, pharmaceutical companies. However even many of the Pharms have programs that help people with the cost of some drugs. I don’t remember hearing anything about cos giving ANYTHING beneficial to to anyone without strings attached. I’m probably going to have my head handed to me for that last one. So apologies for any mistake.
Secretfornow: Take some time and check out the story of Royal Raymond Rife, a man who took on 12 given up for dead cancer patients. All of them had been told to go home and prepare for death. He cured them all, backed up by the doctors who had not been able to do so. He then became the target of the AMA which then proceeded to file SIXTY SIX law suits against him. This began way back in 1930. Are there good doctors? Of course. Are they succeeding in keeping health rising? Given my earlier statement about the World Health’s Ranking of #18 in the world, I rest my case. There is a huge difference between individual doctors and the industry as a whole. And it is an industry. The health insurance companies are, a part of it.
I was in hospital for three days with a severe case of angina. When I decided to leave the hospital, three doctors stood at the foot of my bed and solemnly decreed that if I did not agree to one of the “rotorooter” operations, I would die. Two more doctors, one of them Head of the Heart Dept of a major hospital, contacted me to predict the same. I refused. When I left, they wouldn’t permit me to leave until I agreed to take a large paper bag of various pills, tablets and liquids. When I arrived home, I put the whole bag into the garbage.
That took place in 1995! I’m most happy for my decision. All the doctors meant well. But they didn’t KNOW what they were talking about.
I’ve had doctors quite recently write prescriptions for drugs. I then went home, looked up the drugs, saw the huge warnings about countless damage to be had from taking them, then threw the prescriptions in the garbage and proceeded to use my own methods.
I’ve been studying this stuff for decades, looking deeply into health and ways to get it. And you might want to consider the fact that HOSPITAL ERRORS remain the 3rd cause of death in the US.
Good and great individual doctors? Sure. But that does not change the industry.
Secretfornow. It has to be in a basic reference because I read it when I first was Mission public. One of the books or a basic HCOB. I read it LONG before NOTS existed.
Thanks, I’d like to know which. I’ve done a fair bit over the last four decades, why I can’t get where this was from is beyond me.
Secretfornow, thank you. That is the whole truth and reality of being in the cult.
Several years ago I was asked to act as the MLO (Medical Liaison Officer) for an “indie scientologist” friend of ours who had developed Leukemia. Per L. Ron Hubbard, “He [the MLO] is the terminal in an org to whom a C/S [Case Supervisor] may send public of staff in order to arrange for the necessary medical tests or treatment by a properly registered medical doctor.”
After the medical tests confirmed that the patient did indeed need to undergo chemotherapy, I began repeatedly encouraging him to do so. His business partner (who was also his best friend and housemate) did so as well. During this time I looked up and forwarded to him and the C/S all of the latest research showing that Leukemia was now one of the more successfully treatable forms of cancer using conventional medical treatment, complementary nutrition strategies etc. etc. – all to no avail as he tried every Scientology remedy except the one that recommends medical treatment by a “properly registered medical doctor.”
Finally I was publicly reprimanded by the C/S for “Pushing Chemo” against the patient and C/S’s wishes. At that point I resigned as MLO and wished them luck.
The following Christmas we held a wake for him at our house where his closest friends lamented that “he should’ve gotten chemo.”
Meanwhile, another good friend of ours (former Scientologist) subsequently also had a family member diagnosed with Leukemia. The individual decided to undergo a course of conventional medical treatment (including chemotherapy, radiation and bone marrow transplant) and is now well and thriving in life.
The lesson? Blind faith in uninspected doctrine equals delusion at best, death at worst.
“Blind faith in uninspected doctrine equals delusion at best, death at worst.” Thank you for sharing your stories, Scott.
Reply
That’s the reality, Scott. Thanks for sharing it.
67 years later, “Clears” and “OTs” are still use glasses and die of cancer. Thanks for nothing.
In other words the only thing you ever wanted from Scientology was to not need glasses and to not die of cancer? No other gains were of interest to you?
My only interest is in uncovering fraud and deception.
The reason the love of my life is no longer here is because he fell for the bullshit that his physical health had everything to do with his “case state” and that he was too OT for anything to kill him. Bullshit. Anybody in Dn or Scn for any length of time learns not to trust medical doctors and that everything that ails you can be handled with auditing. More bullshit. Yeah, I know what the “policies” say, but I also know that in the culture of the cult, with policies like the one in this post, that’s how things go – you’re PTS or you need to audit your BTs or whatever.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/opinion/sunday/the-conversation-placebo.html?_r=0
I’ve only presumed along the lines of how friendly understanding conversation does seem to help, as the only actual aid that Scientology’s crank-Hubbard-theoretical-nonsense-pseudo-therapy has any benefit to even cancer patients.
The hope that the crank remedy will help, has been a mainstay of crank medicine man spiritual healer voodoo forever.
It’s only as good as the talk and doctor bedside manner has efficacy in those minute percentage surveyed cases.
Good talk does a tiny bit of good.
Hubbard’s crank theory really hasn’t been proven by anyone to work. Some people get better with the friendly auditor bedside manner (auditor beingness/TRs supposedly really are just words for “good” natured therapist that the patient preclear feels comfortable with).
Thanks Mike. Now I know who to blame if I get cancer.
I wonder if my cancer would be cured if the church of scientology/david miscavige let my son come home to me, being the kind, caring, compassionate group/man that it is.
At one point in the 1970’s ‘Expanded Dianetics’ (whatever happened to that?) was also mentioned as curing cancer.
in one of the Ex Dn tapes, LRH says,
“Now, if you’re going to make this person well and you’re going to use Expanded Dianetics on, well, you have to do a little bit of repair to get him up to that point. But your Expanded Dianetics is an action and it is a grade in its own right.
Really, the AMA would jump me for saying it, and I think California has laws that nobody can cure cancer.
And they’ve just disobeyed that law in England because a doctor up there, who is a Dianetic Auditor, has just cured somebody of totally proven cancer. Has taken him over to the medical association and a big conference and so on, and displayed him complete with the X-rays and so forth. So, gee it’s a good thing he didn’t do that in California.
“….complete with xrays…..”
That ought to be preserved with a good site or link.
But Scientology has never factually gotten off the ground.
Scientology obviously still and all along has correctly been graded as a crank practice, due to not getting results (not hype excitement peak periods) but real results out of the normal consistently to attract serious scientific longer range continued interest in the “Bridge” pseudo-therapy/exorcism’s efficacy proving.
My mom was a Scientologist in Clearwater for a few years, and despite their protests, she brought me to SeaOrg. I also remember “Expanded Diabetics” as being a bid real. I had my own experience with lack of medical care for a number of medical issues — mainly because I refused to do anything related to being a member. I did their forced labor, ate, slept, (no school despite being seven). Between migraines, the flu, and an abrasion that simply needed antibiotics but got infected and might have ended in requiring amputation (not kidding), they denied me treatment since I was a malcontent. I got isolated in something called “Pig’s Birthing” and forced to sleep in an outdoor parking garage because I refused to cooperate. I was seven. I was vomiting from migraines and malnutrition, mosquito bites like there’s no tomorrow. Amid this joy ride I got thanks to them, there was something about Extended or Expanded Diabetics that I remember. Yes, they were really concerned about people’s well being and health.
JustMakeThemGoAway, that makes my blood boil. It’s child abuse, plain and simple. I’m glad you made it out.
Well, “California” must truly be behind times. Cancer is being cured in many cases. However, there are many more cases appearing constantly.
Does anyone know what this means? “I think California has laws that nobody can cure cancer”
I was born and raised in scientology, and one of my parents died (at a relatively young age) from undiagnosed/untreated cancer. My parent was a C/S, class IV, OTVIII and decided to to ‘handle’ it with auditing.
It’s crazy to think of people sitting around auditing their BTs/clusters when they have cancer growing inside their bodies, yet I know it’s what they do. I had heard that cancer was caused by 2D upset, so there was a part of me that wondered if my other parent was to blame for the cancer in the first place. Had there been 2D upset? My parents came from nice, stable families and did not lose any children, so that blows LRH’s assertion apart.
It’s interesting to realize that blaming my one parent would be another example of one of the many ways scientology weakens or breaks up family relationships. Of course I know now that the cancer wasn’t caused by that. My parents simply decided to ‘handle’ it with auditing rather than go to a doctor because that’s what they were conditioned to do.
That’s when I started to wake up. The lie that is scientology started to unravel. The PTS data did not stand up either. I began to realize then that everything I’d been raised to believe in and studied in scientology was lie.
Thank you for your input. I’m sorry you had to lose a parent this way. I’m glad you won’t do this to yourself. I went against all the advice from family/friend scientologists and went to a medical doctor. I’m alive because of it.
Thank goodness you did or we wouldn’t have the pleasure of reading your important input.
sweet! thank you.
Nice firsthand observations! Hope you someday feel safe enough to write and get interviewed for posterity on this Scientology longer range life you’ve observed.
Wow this guy reminds me of somebody in this day in age who is selling snake oil… Trump. They are so delusional that they ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS INSANE STUFF.
Martin Gardner’s “Fads and Fallacies” book on the 1950s puts LRH in context of other crackpot pseudo-science fads of the mid 1900s. The patterns of personal behaviors of the crackpots is good to read, the other guys that LRH beat out in the competition for who’s the top quack of the 1900s competition. LRH’s successes I think are laid out nicely in Hugh Urban’s book and Lawrence Wright’s book. But Martin Gardner’s “Fads and Fallacies” gives the crackpot personalities behavior patterns that LRH was fulfilling even in the 1950s.
Marcy, I could comment on your comment, but this is NOT a political site.
Thank goodness!
You’re a good man Mike Rinder to bring this out in the open. I have been an opponent of NOTs in all it’s forms for quite some time. It resulted in a great deal of expensive time wasting imo. It is one of Hubbard’s worst of the worst ‘research’ assessments and leads to making mockery of everything else he ever did. According to him it sits at the bottom of and is the cause of everything. It’s unworkable bullshit and if that statement doesn’t ring true, realize this, it’s fully endorsed and sold by Miscavige! In fact he’s even “improved” upon it!
I will say something about cancer though. A few years ago I was at the Royal Women’s Hospital In Sydney. It is a huge and old complex, lovely sandstone buildings and the whole area is steeped in medical and colonial history. I got lost trying to find my way out of there. I asked a nurse how do I get out of here and she pointed down a long hallway and said the quickest way is through the children’s hospital and out onto the main street. In a matter of minutes the walls had all sorts of kids posters, happy clowns, bright colors etc. Then I stopped as a number of young children in hospital garb pulling stands on wheels with plasma bags smiled at me, they were all bald! My heart sank. I whirled around and took in the scene, I had stumbled into the children’s cancer ward. Young parents tending their children and nurses and doctors busily scurrying about. I was noticed by the staff and given warm smiles as they assumed I was a parent. I gave a cheerful hello to the children who smiled at me and quickly walked out of there a little short of breath and with tears welling in my eyes. What sort of second dynamic upset does a 8 year old child who is dying of leukemia have? No Ron, you should have left that “research” completely alone or very much restricted it to your own personal “think”, along with never publishing it in NOTs or anywhere else for that matter. That moment in that ward had a lasting effect on me and I still get emotional just thinking about it. I can still see those children smiling at me.
I’ve always maintained Hubbard should have applied his own technology to himself in ’65 and left the game to others to make sense of it or not as the case may be. He researched himself into NOTs insanity, splattering it across all his Dynamics via his own private navy.
To be fair, prior to NOTs enforcement I met a number of old OT5s and 7s who said they were free to come and go as they pleased (no regging) in the old days and wouldn’t touch anything in the modern church. I wish I would have taken their advice.
Yawn, this is a very well written and touching post.
To add to your last paragraph, I know a former NOTs auditor in the church who told me he himself had wonderful gains on the NOTs levels, but that there was a proportion of people who had very bad experiences. He thinks that, at least in some cases, they weren’t properly set up as regards fully attaining prior bridge actions, as well as other outpoints in church delivery.
I think that the excise that people are “not properly set up” as to why it “doesnt work” is like all the other excuses that are offered as to why the “100% workable tech” doesnt work even 50% of the time….
Mike, I think it depends on where and when the auditing was done as to what percentage doesn’t work. Wouldn’t you agree?
I was taking a broad overview. My number is likely way high judging by the massive numbers of ex-scientologists that have been created since the 1950’s. Probably a ratio of 50 to 1 ex to current…
Yeah, we don’t even have accurate figures on the huge numbers of people who did OT levels and got sick and died or almost died, etc. I can think of a few that spent fortunes on OT levels and almost died for various reasons, who also, by the way, IMO were more psycho than ever before, but if you asked them how their OT levels were, they sure as hell would tell you they were fabulous. They have to hold that party line, you know.
Mirildi, I’ve seen people get wonderful gains from intentionally putting themselves in harms way just for the thrill of it. There will always be an element of people who’ll get something out of anything. I don’t have a problem with “whatever floats your boat,” but to call something “standard” with scientific basis when it’s not are the actions of a charlatan. The results and successes using NOTs are non-existent compared to those who walked away from it or worse, got sick from it, disabled and/or financially ruined or lost their families in pursuit of it.
I don’t think of myself as particularly stupid, getting into Scientology sure qualifies though but I did a lot of stuff in it and it all peters out to ridiculousness the higher up the Bridge you go imo.
Hubbard had something interesting in the 60s but ruined it by being Hubbard!
“Hubbard had something interesting in the 60s but ruined it by being Hubbard!”
I basically agree with you on that. Hubbard was “bigger than life,” as many people have described him – and so were his flaws.
Makes me wonder, that another possible future, for today, would be, that this huge groundswell of open communication on chat sites (Marty’s then this one) could possibly lead, in a few years, to the old OT 5s and upwards of the 1980s onwards who are still around, to coalesce into a newer future freezone group.
Another long range pattern, that could happen, is there might be with all this recent years public discussion that was priorly undoable, a community of potential freezone OT 5s and above interested in forming a more benign Scientology group, loose, no pressure, spread out, less greedy, of FIeld group loose Scientology, using the internet, the whole theory of Scientology is all free and online, so then long range, maybe a large diffuse loose Field and Field group level of freezone Scientology could decades from now be all that’s left as North Korean style official Scientology jerkily collapses or continues it’s strategic “small and failing” pattern.
I wonder how much freezone Scientology is coalescing still or what its patterns are.
I always thought the subject of Scientology was the tech (the pseudo-therapy endlessly long list of processes and commands and rundowns, including the 5 levels of exorcism, including OT 8 at the cherry on top, supposedly), not the North Korean style Scientology administration rules for kowtowing everyone in line.
If the freezone grows and overtakes the meaning of Scientology, then Hubbard’s old thoughts of the tech being his prime legacy, would bear out, if that happens. The totalism Hubbard administrative crap though is always on the books, just like the disused parts of the Bible and other religious texts.
I guess that’s a history pattern of “major” religions too, they come forward in human history with their antiquated “ethics” and administrative rules that get tripped over forever by arguing splinter factions today.
Who knows Chuck? Anything is possible but I have no doubt versions of it will pop up from time to time, especially when someone works out a money angle to it. Graham Payne, originally from ANZO set up shop, still drinking the kool-aid apparently and peddles a version of ethics, admin and why finding for businesses. He’s in the US now and occasionally indulges in FSMing using Flag. When the Cof$ does go belly up it wouldn’t surprise me if he if he guru’s himself under a different banner.
As far as the old 5s & 7s, geezers, they’d be getting on in years now. The one thing probably lost forever is the methods of application as were taught by the instructors as they were called in the early days. Miscavige got rid of them all anyway but as I said, who knows…
One thing for sure this Cof$ needs to go, after that… I guess we’ll see what pops up,.
Chuck, I like this idea. I wonder who might be in the Toronto area that fits this bill …
I would like to know why there are not lessons being learned from what people try or do not try to do to heal themselves. If people are successful using chemo therapy, and want to advertise their success, would that be a data point to collect? If people also successfully cleared their reactive mind of subconscious programming and thought that helped too, would that be a data point to collect? Maybe a person changed what they ate to be more of a Hunza diet? What age people die in the organization might be another data point. Is not Scientology partly based upon scientific methods? I have not heard of any feedback loop where the quality of a person’s life is discussed and ideas proposed that may or may not be tried out.
I am not suggesting double-blind studies, as I would not want to cause healthcare execs too much worry, but tracking both success and failure may lead to the helpful creation of folk remedies over a period of generations. Not everyone will appreciate the ‘experimentation’ or conflicting advice, but people suffering or dying for whatever reason should provide the motive to explore more treatment options or adjustments to existing treatments.
The main problem being discussed on this thread should be cancer. Without going into details, I want to point out there seems to be a possible curative path found every so often, which is promptly ignored or discredited, and the advertised end to all microbial related disease has been suggested since the 1930’s. I have seen very convincing film footage from that era that few want to touch or reattempt given how ‘ineffective’ the technology is considered, not that all cancers would be associated with microbes. The point is testimonials appear that mention how person X takes product Y and is miraculously cured of cancer. We can debate how other people do not want to hear about inexpensive cures that could not possibly be cures from a logical standpoint, but if say 10,000 people try an illogical cure, and it seems to work well without bad side effects, then more people might be willing to try the illogical.
Is Scientology strong enough, brave enough, adaptable enough to transform over time to become more effective as an organization? I have not heard of any studies being done into people becoming beings of light at the end of their lives, but maybe some mystic topics would have an expected shroud of secrecy. This assumes Scientology is continuing to expand upon the writings and direction provided by Hubbard. The world needs to monopolize on and fully investigate stories such as “Arigo: Surgeon of the Rusty Knife.”
Confining mental illness to an acceptable range of eccentricity would be monumental. Maybe people are not being given enough D3 + K2. Using all the supposedly freed mental facilities of the mind in these blog entries, I do not see alternative suggestions that indicate any form of intelligence is operating other than dogma. People seem to insist on dying when topics like cancer are brought up. I just used the fingers on my hand to count promising cancer cures that most likely will never be considered by mainstream healthcare interests, as they could have been promoted decades ago.
That’s a tearful story so relevant to Hubbard’s crank presumptions blinding Scientologists.
That along, touring OTs through children’s cancer wards ought to joggle their minds out of their fixed dreams in Hubbard’s OT “body-thetan” crank ideas.
This comment is unrelated to the post on cancer. Great post though.
I just watched the first episode of Season 2 of The Path, which the writer claims has no relation to Scientology. This season starts with Cal, who hijacked the movement from its creator, Steve, buying a very expensive building in Brooklyn. He is seeking religious tax exempt status to avoid the property taxes and increase their reserve funds. Sounds a bit too familiar for parts of the story line to have not been borrowed from Scientology. Entertaining watch.
Yeah, they also discuss a punishment of making someone lick a floor clean with their tongue… And that Cal has written the last “rungs of the ladder” that Steve never made available. The necessary steps to making it to the “light.”
The Path writers have so many fertile incidents from scientology’s real history to pick from.
I’d love to see them take up the PR person’s or “top defector/apostate” issue controversies, for parallels to what seems not just to Scientology a recurring pattern, which is the PR spokespeople for “cults” do have difficult exiting the cult lives!
The Peter Gunn PI exciting TV show, even had a late 1950s episode, where Peter Gunn the PI hero, is hired by the guru leader to spy and foil any bad ramifications of the guru’s defecting PR lady!
My gosh, that floored me.
SO in history, actual history, here was the Peter Gunn 1959 TV episode showing a pattern that even Scientology history has borne out, the recurring issue of Scientology losing its top PR people who logically get so ground up they decide it better to get out of their PR jobs for the cult!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Wvnb8Q5gk
Mike, you are live proof of the Peter Gunn TV shows writers’ story line pattern.
Needleman, may I ask the station and day on which this show is available? Thank you.
I’m buying season 2 right now, wow, that is good.
Season 1 got better and better, the final episodes have the Path founder tell the others to all go back to normal life, and that order gets blocked, and the Path goes on, into Season 2.
So many haunting parallels absolutely to Scientology.
Also people lose children all the time and they don’t necessarily get cancer, very absurd proposition by the God of Scientology.
Tom: “Does anyone else dig the prima facie illogic in this piece of writing?
To wit :’it is not a caused mechanism by the external environment…..’ followed by “Strontium 90….”
The way I got it was that the Strontium 90 was more like a restimulater, in Hubbard’s model of the mind, and the mechanism itself was the stimulus-response reaction to it of the body, which would thus be internal rather than extermal.
“There are other traditions that embrace concepts of Theta over MEST.”
Even science has a concept of theta over MEST, with respect to the quantum theory that consciousness determines whether a wave or a particle is manifested.
marildi, if the harm of Strontium 90 lies not with Strontium 90 but with the “restimulation” it causes in the body then let us not blame the bullet or even the gunman at the scene of a homicide but look to the malfunctioning brain of the deceased. It wasn’t the poor bullet’s fault, it was the brain cells’ less than optimal response to it!
I swear Roger, I get more belly laughs from comments on this blog than anywhere on the net. That includes YouTube. Thank you so much for the hardest laugh so far today.???
Thank you for laughing at my joke you now have a friend for life. Maybe you could invite me over for dinner. I’m a vegetarian but if you accidentally serve meat I will eat it.
My pleasure Roger if you live in the NY area (or even if you don’t ) you have an invitation for life. Vegetarian it is, or meat for a change if you prefer.
Roger, it wasns’t saying that Strontium doesn’t cause cancer – just that the mechanism it triggers is internal.
marildi, I’m happy to report I understand EXACTLY what you’re saying and my one desire is for you to defy not only the Gods but your own stubborn mind and return the favor. Indeed, the bullet, same as our Strontium 90, performs it’s dastardly malfeasance by triggering certain internal mechanisms through the means of its direct contact with cells.
Your condescension aside, I did a search on Strontium 90 and found that while it is stated to be a cancer-causing substance because it “damages” the genetic material (DNA) in cells, I found nothing about how or why the specific mechanism occurs of cells creating an individuated cellular entity. And whether Hubbard’s idea for why it occurs is true or not wasn’t the point I was making, so let’s not do a Red Herring.
condescension: an attitude of patronizing superiority
Sorry but I quit reading after ‘condescension’. All that flattery goes to my head, you know.
Well, Rog, we all have our values. 🙄
God, sorry Roger. Didn’t know you were short a dictionary. I would have happily lent you one of mine.
How do you know it isn’t related to Psoriasis miraldi? And what happens if there is also an exit wound?
🙂
Yea, “you” the listener, created the whole universe, so deal with your stubborn ignorance of all your past-lives misdeeds and your self past-lives obfuscation you’ve done to your “Mind” and your own soul, over eternity. It’s all your fault. As you learn on OT 8, your case is all your own creation! Happy Now? You better be “Happy Now?” or else shell out some money for Qual Repair auditing since you must have quickied something somewhere along the line, maybe you need Survival Rundown another time!
And people forget Hubbard said in 8-80 that they forget they are immortal, and can’t die, it’ll be more of the same or variations, no matter what, forever. Get used to it. Why worry?
rogerHornaday, and what about that BS about the bullet not going in or something if it’s totally duplicated, I think from the communication references?
What I will say will place me as a kind of kool aid drinker, while I am a dedicated ennemy of Miscavige, but let me tell you an experience. Around the year 2000, a good friend of mine was very very tired. He made some medical exam and found he had cancer. He had an operation removing the cancer part. Went better and relapsed. Anather cancer was back at the same spot almost. Aside that he was loosing weight, very very much, going weaker and weaker. It was looking he will die.
I was no longer a true believer at this time, hated already secretly Miscavige but somehow was still interested in tech. My friend was on not’s and had some intensive left in an AO. I took him with me there and insisted that He was audited. That was a fight as he was considered as almost fatally ill, so illegal PC. But the Dof P said that after all the best was to try to audit. And he got Not’s auditing.
Each time I met my friend betweeen two sessions he was yawning, like masses running out. Color gradually went back. This went for a week and he finished his program, and was looking so much better. Color back on his face, weakness gone. He said that each auditing question he couldn’t even answer so much the charge was blowing.
He went home. I was affraid he would relapse, but no, actually exam revealed the cancer was vanished. Doctors were amazed.
To this day he is alive and in good health. But he disconnected from me because I’m an SP, while I brought him to the AO for auditing at this time!
Yep, there are anecdotal examples like this and I don’t doubt them. There are those who have similar stories when they find Jesus, or drink osmosed water. There is no doubt an effect that CAN be created on physical conditions by one’s state of mind. It does not in itself prove the efficacy of the “treatment” as I could cite you 50 examples to the contrary, i.e. when someone got auditing to “cure” their cancer and it worked not at all. The issue I have with this is that it is presented as FACT.
The lie is in the standarness of the outcome. The lie is: “if you do this process, this is the standard outcome.”
I know people who claim that belonging to Toast Masters (a group of people dedicated to learn public speaking) has made them more confident and great at communicating.
The big lie that Scientologists buy into is that it is ONLY Scientology that can better your life.
What a con!
Yes, that term “standard” leaves a lot to be desired. It’s a term better suited to the scientific assessment of a small block Chevy than as to the solution of the human condition via an organised mafiosa wanabe church.
Yes, this is key to the failings of Scientology. Miraculous events are described in various faiths, but most involve the action of a Deity or something else. I know people who who experienced these events, but they are not the normal result. Most of the religions I have knowledge of do not claim this kind of repeatable “magic spell” effects.
Scientology tells people that they WILL achieve these miraculous states if they do the Tech right, which is insane. Hubbard made claims that could be found empirically false. This puts the blame for any failure on the person trying it, which is horrible.
My OTVII ex-mother in law whose children were all living at the time of her death died of brain cancer.
I was OTV when I left. I am a 2x survivor of ovarian cancer. I place part of that on the fact that I had 2 children to take care of so refused to die, part of it on the fact that I left their father, thus relieving the major stress point in my life.
What continues to amaze me is the people who post comments here who need so desperately to believe that what Hubbard said was true, that he was a “great researcher” that he “discovered cures” that even when truth flies in the face of that and it is revealed that he was a seasoned liar, they desperately hold onto the belief that there were amazing discoveries made.
I do not want to poo poo something that works for someone, but I hope those holding on desperately to the belief that Hubbard discovered this great technology at least allow themselves the freedom to research for themselves what Hubbard claims to have discovered and find who the real source of the workable items are so they don’t feel the need to cling tightly to all Hubbardian words as scripture.
I also was out of scirntology and received traditional treatment–chemo and radiation.
Those folks who still see the ben benevolence of Ron need our compassion.
I’ve concluded two things in my opinion:
They are still brainwashed or they are church trolls defending Hubbard.
Yup.
This below quote is from a David Mayo interview. Here is the link to the interview.
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/mayo.htm
My attention always goes to the last paragraph. Here is my take on the last paragraph about Ron having an insatiable lust for POWER AND MONEY.
Think about it. Have you ever known anyone who had an addictive personality? Sex, drugs, alcohol………..whatever?
They will do anything to appease the addiction. They will lie, cheat, steal because the addiction controls them.
Well L Ron Hubbard tells Mayo what addiction is in control of Ron: POWER AND MONEY.
I believe that Ron continued lying about research and findings about cures because he knew his Altitude with us as a prophet and scientist was still intact. He knew we believed him.
Ron was no idiot.
HE KNEW HE DID NOT RESEARCH THESE THINGS.
HE KNEW HE COULD NOT CURE CANCER
HE KNEW OVERTS DID NOT CAUSE BLOWING
HE NEVER PROVED THAT ALL CRITICS ARE CRIMINALS
SINCE THE DAYS OF DIANETICS THROUGH TO THE OT LEVELS, HIS CLAIMS OF STANDARD TECH AND ABSOLUTE CURE WAS DESIGNED FOR ONE THING AND ONE THING ONLY:
TO SATISFY HIS ADDICTION TO POWER AND MONEY
My dear friends, L Ron Hubbard lied to us. He consciously lied about research. He used our vulnerability and trust.
He misled us consciously and purposely to acquire POWER AND MONEY.
He led a life of lies, that is why he was always hiding. And his deception and lies led him to a life of infamy and insanity.
I know it is a hard thing to embrace if you still believe in Ron’s benevolence.
But I want you to know that L Ron Hubbard deceived you. He used your trust and loyalty to acquire POWER AND MONEY.
HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED RON’S “TECH” COULD CURE!!
RON DID NOT NEED TO KILL ALA BOLIVAR. HE KILLED BY LYING TO US. HE USED US FOR POWER AND MONEY.
THAT IS IS IS IS THE MYSTERY SOLVED.
Here is the quote. Read the whole interview. This con man saw your pain and suffering as suite cases of cash to offshore accounts.
Here is Mayo:
“It wasn’t just what I discovered. I didn’t care where he was born or what he had done in the war, it didn’t mean a thing to me. I wasn’t a loyal member of Scientology because he had an illustrious war record. What worried me was when I saw things he did and statements he made that showed his intentions were different from what they appeared to be. I began to realise he wasn’t acting for the public good or for the benefit of mankind, it worked partly that way and he may have started out like that, but in later years, in his own words, he had “an insatiable lust for power and money”.
He told me he was obsessed by “an insatiable lust for power and money”. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn’t possible to get enough. He didn’t say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn’t get enough.”
David Mayo
That ‘attitude’ that you mention is part of what makes him a knowing mind control hypnotist. An essential part of hypnosis is maintaining a position of altitude ‘above’ the subject. This gives you command power over them.
Hubbard knew that. He also knew that the peer level is not hypnotic. This is one reason why real science uses peer review. Since he avoided peer review we can conclude that the hypnosis was intentional.
Exactly Gene, I have posted on Altitude Instruction before. I may write another essay.
L Ron Hubbard was a Hypnotic Operator as defined by his writing:
Altitude Instruction.
I think Hubbard believed in his own tech, and wouldn’t see a doctor. Some doctors of course are unreliable but medecine well applied with enough empathy (not like treating an illness but a human being) help. Even if Hubbard adviced “physically ill PC and preOT to be medically treated, he didn’t apply it to himself. And so did many scientologists who refused medical officer advise to do physical check.
They had a profound distrust for doctors. This state of mind doesnt come from Hubbard only, it’s a new age, natural treatment frame of mind. Feeling betrayed by conventional healing (chemical, big pharma etc.) This controversy is much beyond scientology.
Most of scientologists, even ex scientologists are not for conventional medical care, and join on that a huge number of people who have never heard of scientology. There are hundreds of cure for cancer which are not conventional, most of it not really working. I have known many “wogs” which were more extreme than hard core scientologist in not applying conventional medicine.
Hubbard sent people physically ill to do physical exam, it was his policy. But it was almost a very bad new and a feeling of betrayal when a PC heard this advice from a CS. He rather believed he needed more auditing. You see, remember, that was your belief if you were a scientologist, it even was your belief opposed to Hubbard policies.
We thought having found scientology was a vaccin against all odds in life. Most of us has ceased to confront a doctor and they are hard to confront because they always diagnose things which dont feel right, and I dont trust most of what they say. And this has nothing to do with Hubbard.
It’s not that scientologist are like Hubbard, it’s more that Hubbard was of the same brand than his followers, having a distrust for common “wog” thinking.
I watched once a video of Robertson. First video was around 1988, I could see on his neck a little black tumor which would have been easly removed by a simple operation. Another video 3 years later, he had a huge tumor on the neck. A year later he was dead. He had certainly audited it and all that. Good idea. But just to remove the tumor would have been so simple.
My advice (I also had some shit being against doctors, and had some shit believing doctors) to seek many advice and really observe.
Anyhow, it is true that the majority of people delivering any service of any kind are mostly incompetents, careless or stupid. You have to choose them very carefully, and it counts for doctors, acountants, lawyers even plummers, it was the same for auditors, most of them have shit TRs and are robots.
I think that El Ron did believe in his Tech – the fact that he made a point of using it himself is telling. However, we have the evidence of the end of his life, where he was considering some method of burning out his BTs and dying in the process, and despaired of his work before dying. The Tech did not work, even for its inventor.
I get that LRH wanted to make a fortune and a corporate empire out of his invention, like an IT inventor turned business mogul. The mad “scientist” was always trying to make money off his invention, and paranoid of outsiders. I don’t see as an outright evil man in the same level as Davey, more of a for-profit prophet who got lots of stuff wrong.
For the record I am Never-In and I do not believe in any aspect of Scientology, but I do not begrudge anyone practicing it without hurting people.
This is so interesting as I had never read anything about the NOTs procedures to find the BT’s and the correlation between psychosomatic ills. My beautiful mother, Bronwen Jory, who had completed NOTs but was not on Solo NOTs died from brain cancer at the age of 58. Even though what killed her so fast was a blood clot (from getting up too fast out of her hospital bed), she was given 6 months to live and the only treatment was radiation therapy, to give her more time. She did not even get to the point of receiving radiation therapy and died within days. BUT she had been having terrible headaches for weeks prior and did not go to the doctor until she had a fit (similar to an epileptic fit) and luckily my brother found her and called the equivalent of 911 in South Africa & she was rushed to the hospital, within a week she was dead. She had stage 5 brain cancer, I saw the scan which showed how large her tumor was. After the fit, she then had another one in the hospital and as a result lost her speech. The doctors told us (prior to her death) that in the 6 months she may have, she would go blind and lose most of her physical functions, so in the end it was a blessing she went so fast.
I firmly believe that if she had gone to a proper doctor right away when the headaches started and other symptoms, something may have been done to prevent this but maybe not…….who knows. Her belief in Scientology and the belief that the auditing can handle physical problems most probably contributed to the fact that she did not go to the doctor and most probably thought that she had to get to Flag. And compounding the fact that she was an opinion leader in SA and this would be bad PR.
The sad thing about this handling of medical conditions with auditing, solo nots or otherwise, is it is a complete violation of the Auditors code ” I promise not to mix the processes of Scientology with other practices except when the preclear is physically ill and only medical means will serve. ”
They don’t even follow their own rules when the need is obvious. Sad and I am sorry to hear of her fate.
Mimsey
Unfortunately, Mimsey, it’s exactly the same fate in store for all of us. 🙂
Lois, having worked in the medical field for many, many years I can say with a degree of confidence your mom would at the least been able to prolong and enjoy her life. I don’t write this to upset you, just to put some context here. No, I’m not a diagnostician, but as the years have gone by with people reporting abnormalities sooner and huge steps forward in targeted chemo protocols and the success of genomic therapies good outcomes are much more common. Hubbard on the other hand was a goner no matter what.
Hubbard hated people to happy. Just because he couldn’t be a good lover, no one else could be a good lover. Who’d want to kiss him with his rotted out teeth! Must have had stank breath. Yuck!!!
The following esmb thread may be interesting and relevant.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?16796-MICHEL-CANCER-AND-SUICIDE-ON-SOLO-NOTS
Trevor, that is simply horrifying.
I believe cancer is prevalent in BT auditing because the being is visualizing his/her body as a torture chamber of souls. Visualizing his/her body with such negativity that it alters cells.
Since LRH’s time the mind body connection has been scientifically proven in many cases.
Meaning our thoughts have an effect on our bodies.
The only conclusion I can come to regarding the high amount of cancer patients on BT auditing is that the being is constantly visualizing the body as a torture chamber. And that torture chamber IS THE CAUSE of all of their problems.
THE OT LEVELS ARE DELUSIONAL, DANGEROUS AND DESTRUCTIVE TO ONES ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND REALITY.
THE OT LEVELS CAUSE A DISASSOCIATION FROM REALITY AND IMPLANT DELUSION AS TRUTH AND MAY LEAD TO CANCER.
L RON HUBBARD HATED THE BODY. L RON HUBBARD WAS A CERTIFIABLE LOON.
Brian, today you get the prize for being a “goddamned riot.”
Ha ha! Thank you Barbara. I love deconstructing Ron.
It’s my hobby.
“As a loss of a child”? My mother got brain cancer and her daughters are alive and well thank you.
It looks like the 1954 cure for cancer was placed in the 1990 Solo pack probably as a marketing ploy to “hype” the top of the bridge. So after finishing your solo course you would “keep plugging along and just pay us more money” ha ha ha.
LRH also said that “Any processing (auditing) is better than no processing.” And so this 2D Cancer process, like much of the processing he claims to cure various illnesses, especially cancer, would (in my cynical view) just make him richer and more powerful, so why shouldn’t he stretch the truth to get more money and fame by saying he could for sure cure cancer?
At the end of his life he admitted he was obsessed with obtaining more and more power and money. I believe this obsession guided his life. For instance, if LRH had said to auditors, “I think this process might cure cancer, so try it and let me know…” then you know it was not LRH talking. If he said, “You did it wrong, that’s why your PC died from cancer.” Well, then you know it was LRH talking.
In the field of any “research” most everything you discover is wrong. That is why it is called research. So, real research requires honest assessments of your successes and failures. But, LRH left honesty at the door step of his research into the human mind. As an accomplished hypnotist he knew that people would follow him blindly, but never if they were told the truth. That is why the story of his real life and the truth about Scientology are so cloaked in secrecy. Most of his and now DM’s effort is to cover up the truth, not discover it. Very ironic for the “Scio” study of “ology” knowledge. hahahaha
I think LRH had some sort of Messiah Complex. Too often he positions himself as the “only one” to “pull it off”, whether its OTIII or OTVIII or others. He has to be “the hero” of the story, risking life and limb to save the world. Interwoven through Scn mythology is Ron, The Hero, like some camp Saturday matinee, where our boy dodges bullets, jumps of a cliff, dangles from a train, all to save the damsel in distress.
From an early age he was known for “spinning a good yarn”. None of that changed with the advent of Dn and Scn. He just played to a select audience.
Funny, KSW keeps popping to mind, “button on self-importance” and “cut off from the fruits of observation”. He was no scientist; no proper research skills.
His “research” goes something like this: “Hmm…this is the second time we’ve seen this (fill in the blank) – I think I’m on to something. Yep, there it is – another universal truth. Time to publish a new HCOB and let everyone know how awesome I am.”
Does anyone else dig the prima facie illogic in this piece of writing?
To wit :”it is not a caused mechanism by the external environment…..” followed by “Strontium 90….”
lol, wut?
As thought stopping as the Nicene Creed…..
And predictably, I take a contrarian view re: the IRS. There were 3 IRS cases in the early years: the Church would have lost the first, the 2nd the Church would have won, and the third the church would have probably won. But instead of following the local “customs and traditions”, and allowing justice to take it’s course, the IRS entered into a global (for the US) agreement granting “religious cloaking status” to avoid doing their job. To my mind that is “Entanglement” and a violation of the Establishment Clause. Lawyers and Global Elites….the new class of uber-crims…
There are other traditions that embrace concepts of Theta over MEST. This I think is an interesting “position paper” on the subject. http://www.dalailama.com/biography/reincarnation It is interesting to note that they are being screwed with as well….by techniques from the russian school of psychology.
As the survivor of 4 completely different types of breast cancer since 2000, and happily married for 35 years, I’m appalled to read this. Hubbard’s bizarre fixation on sex is sickening.
There’s anecdotal evidence that breast cancer is preceded by a traumatic event about 3 months prior to diagnosis, but there’s also evidence that Agent Orange was a carcinogenic that is now creating havoc for Vietnam veterans. And then there’s Monsanto’s Round-Up, GMOs, and radiation. (Two of the breast cancers I’ve had occurred in the breast that was irradiated to “prevent further breast cancer”. Pfft. Radiation did the exact opposite on my body: it created tissue that made more cancer more likely.
For those who are having success auditing “2D blocks”, that’s wonderful. But what works for some won’t work for all. I encourage anyone dealing with cancer to listen to your body, follow your gut instinct, and be kind to yourself. There are also several excellent books on this subject … one of my favorites being “The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer” by Siddhartha Mukherjee (an oncologist).
If I hadn’t already concluded that LRH was crazy, this article alone would have done it.
Love you More Robin after reading your post. Especially the last line! There are some superb books around by those who have overcome cancer. Whatever path we take you and I and all who know of or suffer from cancer are survivors and know the cost. ?
The silver linings of breast cancer have, for me, outweighed the hassles. The beauty of a life-threatening illness is that it can realign your priorities to what really matters … like finding the seat of your soul 🙂 All my best to you on your journey, Ann. x.x.x.x.
How lovely to hear somebody speak such wisdom. Yes, there is a blessing in every so-called, “bad” experience. Our job is to find it and know it. And of course love it.
Considering we’ve all experienced “second dynamic or sexual upset” in every one of our “quadrillions” of lifetimes, it’s a miracle we’re not all one big walking cancer cell.
Per Ron’s logic, our species should have died off before the Earth was ever formed.
?
i have been C/S for quite some time. And most of people with cancers had such a big upset in 2D, like a death of a children or similar. On OTs the NOTs tech having being so altered in the Church it is easy to understand the connection between cancers and bts, etc…
Do you think the “NOTs tech” was also “altered” by Hubbard on himself? Just curious…
I’ve know two OTs (V and VII) who both died of cancer, and both reported NO 2D upsets prior to the onset of cancer.
I can believe you! When I succeeded to handle a breast cancer, and a uterus cancer that was on people not on OT levels.
For those on NOTs and solo NOTs, when the tech is out as it is right now, furthermore when they run Dianetics on OTs it is so wrong that you will get cancers!
I am on solo NOts myself and it works. People on NOTs and solo NOTS in the french freezone don’t have any cancer! Some of those who stayed on church lines got cancers and some died of that.
Some who have been on church lines and now on freezone sowed us the tech difference, and I am not surprized that some OTs got cancers.
People on NOTs and solo NOTS in the french freezone don’t have any cancer!
Happy to hear that, though I would guess it is less than 20 people.
The point is not whether you GET cancer on NOTs or not. It’s whether once you DO have it you think you are going to cure it.
There are 40 parents in my son’s kindergarten class and not one of them has cancer either. So, I guess that proves….?
Good point, Mike. Of the many, many people (@ 300) I know, never involved in the cult, four have gotten cancer; two passed away and the other two are cancer free now.
I’d like to see where and when the “solo auditor” bulletins existed. Not till the end of 1982!
Morning Mike…..I am sure by now you have seen the TBT article about Scientology and the “elephant in the room.” ??? It is so true……when I went downtown……I felt like an interloper. The hard stare of a Sea Org member at a traffic light didn’t help.
If you haven’t…..check it out.
Haha, just today we drove through downtown CW and stopped at the stop sign near the Osceola. My friend said to the 4-5 sea org standing there–oh I hope you guys are okay, have you read what is going on with the church on the internet? They just all stared at us, but maybe one will just be curious and find out a way to look at the library or somewhere.
Lost several (3) OT 8 friends to lung cancer. All were heavy smokers. No type or amount of Scientology auditing could save them. All were in their 50s. Scientology had taken almost all of their money by the time they died. They were all smart and capable people who saw Scientology as man’s only hope for salvation.
The Unofficial EP of Scientology
“The vast majority of scientologists have no idea of physical deterioration he suffered, and if they did, it would fly in the face of so much they are taught and raise so many questions about the fundamental “truths” of dianetics and scientology. Was LRH PTS and he could not handle it? Was he NCG? Did he have unhandled O/Ws? Evil Purposes? How is it he could not apply the tech to himself? All his solo auditing of BT’s didn’t resolve his physical conditions? Really?”
That kind of questioning felt like running full throttle into a brick wall when they eventually occurred to me a year or two ago. Prior to that my attitude about LRH was that his actions and motivations, mostly only known from hearsay and speculation, may well explain why his work was b/s but they do not ESTABLISH that his work was b/s.
But documents exist accepted by courts of law and by the CoS that back up what you say above about the circs of his death.
This was one of Wendy Honnor’s favourite references. I wonder if she still swears by it.
So in effect, according to LRH, cancer is a “good thing?’ Just another “being” trying to survive in our bodies? So radiation to kill what is killing us, should not to used? That’s his logic? Or should I say lack off.
What an unbelievably idiotic person.
Putting this into context, the above LRH quote is either:
1) A strong indication that LRH completely BELIEVED his own bullshit, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary
2) He had an insatiable need to be the “savior” of mankind, and for others to swoon over towering intellect.
In both cases, this proclamation represents straight-up and vertical, highest-ever irresponsibility. For God’s sake, real people have DIED believing in this man and following his instructions. Unreal.
Happy Sunday Mike. Well you know I have to throw in my two cents here. You know my cancer history but others here may not. After I blew the Sea Org in 1978 I was like a hermit. It was not until 1999,then 2014 and going forward to 2017, I learned I had colon cancer and now breast cancer. I was not thrilled to go the full on medical press route for this disease but I decided to. Not one bit of family history at all. So I have some truly amazing doctors and I am cancer free right now but continue to see if it has come back every six months. Yes I do believe part of my mind set in the years between getting cancer and leaving Sea Org are connected but not exclusively so. Old Ron believed there was no cause between chemicals in the environment & cancer, no cause between no-sleep -stress for four years and cancer no cause between draconian Scientology punishments and cancer. Why be still my heart it was all my second dynamic screw ups that caused it. Ron what a Revelation since there were some bets going around SO regarding Miss Ann and getting a 2D in SO. Can you believe in 74 my superior lectured me on post for one hour on how I was selfish for not going out with SOers from Day or Fdn who wanted a date. It was so creepy like I was this virgin sacrifice or something. So thank for putting the open can of worms out there, Ron’s musings on the subject. May cancer vanish and be no longer even a memory for all. That is why I am so passionate about laughter, light and love, they are my beacons of Healing in my fight. If I had not escaped, I would not be here today. ????
Thank you for sharing your story for those of us who are not familiar with it. I’m glad you’re here with us!
Thank you Arthur. Very good to meet you. ❤️
Brave soul. Please see my post(s) and know I’ll think good thoughts of you often.
Very kind of you Barbara. I will look for your posts and Love your good thoughts for me, as I have for you. ❤️
Thanks for sharing this Ann… I look forward to your comments and enjoy reading them…just wanted to let you know… your love shines through the mist to everyone..
Robert,what a beautiful comment, thank you from my heart. But you know,you and so many others are holding your lamps of light so my love can find you in the mist! I am always looking for your comments, have enjoyed them immensely. ?
So glad you made it, Ann B Watson! <3
Mike, thanks for reprinting this. This is the view most all OTs I know have of cancer, the ones who haven’t died from that or heart problems. Scientologists have a very high rate of cancer. Of course the 24/7 stress from being in Scientology might have something to do with that.
I remember being appalled at the amount of over-the-counter medicine LRH took.
Ok, truth be told, I never actually saw, with my own eyes, LRH swallow a single pill.
But I was in the messenger-on-duty office in a major “LRH space” and there were PILES of these medicines, like 4-5 boxes each, things like Sine-Aide, Sine-off, Allerest, etc etc. There had to be 6 or 7 different kinds, all neatly arranged in a tray by brand.
I did hear, with my own ears, Kima Douglass once offer Miscavige an aspirin, like it was perfectly normal. Miscavige declined the offer. (Kima had a high post in the LRH household unit and took care of a lot of LRH’s medical needs. Others who comment here may be able to offer more details.)
The point is, LRH took medicines that were frowned on by scientologists in general.
How many of you out there made yourself suffer with those headaches rather than take an aspirin and risk “not having your mental image pictures fully formed” or some such?
In the late 80s, early 90s, local pharmacies pulled all over the counter sinus tabs. Because the ephedrine or pseudephedrine was being bought in mass quantities, since a “recipe for meth” had shown up on the internet. It had to be signed for.
Just the suggested dose , with a couple of cups of coffee is enough to get(what I called) a cheap tweak. I made that mistake, once.
Last night I found letters my mom wrote to RTC, OSA, AOLA, the local Mission, my brother’s auditor…she was desperate to “save her OT Levels” despite some seriously awful “out-2d” activity my brother was guilty of.
I couldn’t keep reading them because I have mixed feeling of betrayal by her. We were not her priority at all. The letters made me sick to my stomach.
She then got cancer and began “handling” it through the org and OSA (due to potential PR flap) guiding her.
I can only guess she believed the above LRH reference and her desperation to fix the situation to not flap on the church was mainly to PROTECT THE CHURCH and HER OT levels, not our family.
She died, of breast cancer.
I’m so sorry for your loss, Sarita.
Mike, I’ve a question. Since Hubbard says the only way to combat cancer is auditing, and you have to pay for auditing, isn’t that charging money for what is essentially being touted as a proceedure which will cure (or any other word chosen) cancer? To my knowledge that’s practicing medicine without a license.
It’s no different than choosing to pray to Jesus or having a faith healer lay on hands. If you want to participate you can. It’s all protected by the First Amendment. And if you decide you want to donate to the church, that’s your choice. And though nobody else has “fixed donations” like scientology does, in the eyes of the law it is no different as the IRS has found these to be acceptable and not quid pro quo.
It probably works in the church’s favor if a few of their parishioners die of cancer, reinforcing that this is a religious BELIEF, and not a medical practice. That sounds awful, but seems true.
You probably have a good point. If their parishioners do die it’s because the parishioner’ belief wasn’t strong enough. Makes you want to cry.
Welcome to organized religion. That, or “It was God’s will”.
Something I should have written on the first comment I made is that two of my four children have had cancer. They never lost a child. In fact they never did anything wrong at all. Does Doctor Hubbard have an answer for that one?
Well, yes, he does. It’s because of BT’s.
Aaahhh (Hear hard head slap) stupid me!
Please don’t think other religions don’t go in for “fixed donations” these days. The whole concept of tithing is based on giving ten percent of one’s earnings to the church, (which the LDS church takes really seriously) and some of the creepier Protestant denominations are treating their congregations like Amway customers.
The pressure to join is immediate as is the one to “pledge” donations with automatic debit, etc. I’ve even heard of an extreme case where a woman was denied access to attending her church because she wasn’t current in her obligations, even though she had suffered financial hardship and was a single mom. Pastors act like they are McDonald franchises competing in an shrinking market – so they can be totally capitalistic in bent.
They aren’t quite yet as sleazy or sophisticated as the Church of Snitchology and other cults in controlling the reality of their parishoners and pulling them in gradually with bait and switch programs that mask their real intent.
And they don’t have the ultimate leverage of excommunication that the Catholic church would have for serious transgressions (and doesn’t need with all their money), but some do their best. The Catholic church went through its quid pro quo scandals over a millennium ago when they were selling beneficences to parishoners (and which, ironically, was a major influence on the whole Reformation movement that created the Protestant sects to begin with).
Obviously Co$ gets that medical angle covered under belief (although using “tech” that was so unscientific it was laughed out of court and precipitated LRH turning it into a religion thing to begin with is ironic in the extreme). But aren’t some of their “nutritional” cottage industries under fire these days? Selling people vitamin regimens that promise physical results or fabricating Narconon stats can be covered, particularly if they are sold to the public and designed to be gateways to Co$ membership. It would seem that hitting them there and closing down those ancillary revenue streams would be reasonable.
It’s one thing to market snake oil to members but peddling that stuff to non-believers using false and undocumented claims is just fraud and that should hold up in court.
Hadn’t heard that Cecy, but thanks for letting me know. I mean I’m aware of tithing, but I was never told if I didn’t give the 10% I’d never get to heaven. I’m not arguing at all because I’m sure there are other religions with fixed donations. I just hadn’t heard anything about it until today. Consider me informed.
Tithing is not exactly a “fixed” donation, since it varies with income – it’s more like what is often called “sliding scale.” Scientology makes no allowance for income and just denied services outright.
I have seen two different financial analysis using different methods, that suggest that CofS members “donate” on average about $15,000 per year – and that’s per member, not per household. So many if not most are spending well over 10% of their income, and certainly in quite a few cases way over that. Then there are those who work more than they would otherwise to increase their income enough to be able to afford the “fixed donations.”
I certainly didn’t mean to imply that other churches are in the same league at all. I just wanted to indicate that there are predatory practices in all religions. Most of them do not exert even close to kind of pressure that Co$ does. But I will say that I put many televangelists in that category, in that they prey on the weak and vulnerable, using very manipulative bombardment practices to solicit donations from seniors and others on fixed incomes that they cannot afford, implying that they will not have a peaceful afterlife, while their leaders live in luxury and their churches do very little but line their own pockets.
I would like to see laws that could take away tax exempt status from organizations that either use high-pressure tactics to solicit funds, or to strip it from those who cannot in a discernable or quantifiable way demonstrate that they contribute to the good of society outside their own immediate membership. The UK either has some restrictions along these lines or is contemplating them.
cecybeans, I agree with you about predatory practices in religions, I just wanted to be very clear about what is distinctive about what Scientology does.
I think it is often important to be very clear and precise about what you’re dealing with, in order to best determine how to handle it.
As to legal changes to make, a starting place would be to revoke the unique exemption Scientology has for “fixed donations.”
There are some minimal guidelines in the US about tax-exempt organizations having to provide benefit to the community and not build up excess assets, and I suspect that Scientology is getting close to running afoul of them as membership shrinks. The question is at what point it would become so blatant that the IRS actually took action.
In the US, there is a lot of leeway given based on the principle of freedom of religion, plus there is the political influence of many wealth churches and religious leaders who don’t want to see laws and regulations that could end up affecting them. But there is probably some room for agreement about curbing abuses like the worst of fundraising tactics, and providing protections for paid and volunteer staff.
Rather than get into issues that touch upon religious operations, and because no on wants to put too much of a burden on small religious missions, I think one of the things to focus on is pushing for requirements that large and wealthy religious organizations operating as corporations, should be subject to many of the same regulations as for-profit corporations, including financial reporting requirements. The privilege of for-profit status should come with some additional obligations, not freedom from accountability.
Great logic Mike Rinder! love it and loved your show and hope you do another season!
There are many points on the time track when and where L. Ron Hubbard communicates data that is totally incorrect to people. The old Class IX course comes to mind as one such moment in time as does this essay by him on cancer. The frightening thing here that Scientologists are being asked to believe is that this is intended for SOLO NOT’s pre OT’s? Thank goodness I am not on that level to have to be handed another L. Ron Hubbard pack of lies to believe. Hasn’t anyone in the Church of Scientology ever heard of places like Cancer Treatment Centers of America? It looks to me like for some reason L. Ron Hubbard’s tech is not needed there to prevent and cure cancer in almost all people that can be treated for it. Another, L. Ron Hubbard lie forced on the church’s confused dangerous members. 🙂
yet I have applied this data on pcs, and I got success to stop cancers! It is working you address the 2d blocks!
There is arguably a link between stress/mental health on certain ills and speed of recovery. But none I know of with regards to the 2D. Or body thetans. Are you open to the possibility that what you are actually doing is utilising the therapeutic value of the placebo effect to improve the person’s mental state? Which, in turn, may affect recovery?
One word – P L A C E B O
The effect is thus:
a beneficial effect produced by a placebo drug or treatment, which cannot be attributed to the properties of the placebo itself, and must therefore be due to the patient’s belief in that treatment.
Yes, P L A C E B O, a marvelous thing. We can actually control our bodies and heal ourseves with our MINDS! And idiots condemn and belittle it as something outrageous or “New Age.” Of course, the reverse is true in that we can also make ourselves sick with the same inbred talent. Your choice. We are all far more powerful than we believe … or are taught.
Praying to Jesus has reportedly cured many cancers. Unreportedly it has also failed to do so. Having worked in the oncology unit for years I know it is more than common for cancer to go into remission.
Thank you for some reality on the subject, Roger.
My sister in law and my brother prayed for two years and fought her cancer with every medical procedure available including stem cell transplant. She died. I didn’t believe in prayer and I lived. I wish there was an explanation as to why some live and some don’t. It is called a miracle when they live, a tragedy when they die. It’s like a roll of the dice who lives or dies. No one I know who’d say my brother’s wife deserved death.
Wouldn’t it be nice if there really was a known cause of cancer? That would make a cure so much easier.
The placebo effect is well known. The body can do marvelous things on it’s own, and believing that something can be healed can sometimes cause the body to create that reality, even in something as vile as cancer. Slick people have used that knowledge to suck people in to various things. “This being healed you,” or “that being healed you.” “God healed you.” It’s been going on since time immemorial. Belief is a powerful thing that can have real results, though not necessarily due to the reasons many people think.