There are often questions about scientology’s belief in God.
Do they believe or don’t they?
Scientology goes to some lengths to make it appear “of course we believe in God, it is the 8th Dynamic in scientology.”
But what that means is pretty vague. Here is what L. Ron Hubbard says about the 8th Dynamic:
THE EIGHTH DYNAMIC — is the urge toward existence as infinity. This is also identified as the Supreme Being. It is carefully observed here that the science of Scientology does not intrude into the dynamic of the Supreme Being. This is called the Eighth Dynamic because the symbol of infinity,∞ stood upright makes the numeral eight. This can be called the Infinity or God Dynamic.
When the Seventh Dynamic is reached in its entirety, one will only then discover the true Eighth Dynamic.
FUNDAMENTALS OF THOUGHT
The bolded section was in the book when it was written by Hubbard, but deleted in more recent editions, no doubt because it is not in keeping with the idea that scientology believes in God.
Let’s take a look at some other quotes from Hubbard that make his position pretty clear – we are not talking about the Supreme Being in the 8th Dynamic:
The Eighth Dynamic is really infinity stood upright. And it simply means infinity. Now, you can come along and say, ‘Well, you also mean the Supreme Being?’ No, we don’t particularly mean the Supreme Being. How do we know that you aren’t, collectively, the Supreme Being. See? That’s probably much more closer to truth. There are gods around of various kinds. There are some wind gods over in India; there are various savage gods of one kind or another. But if you give them a good quizzing you find out that they’re just a thetan and they behave most remarkably like you would if you hadn’t thought that you ought to lay aside all the power you had, too. — L. Ron Hubbard, Lecture October 19, 1954
He repeats here his idea that man is God:
Every man there is, is a universe. You talk about God: The most you will know about God for probably a long time to come is you. If you want to know what God is all about, or if you want to know what you’re all about, you want to know what the fourth dynamic is all about, you consult the essential elements of ‘you-ness.’ Not buried, unconscious, submotivated, libido-icated, bypassed symbolizations of the left hind ruddy rod, which we therefore graph and say, ‘It’s all mysterious and you can’t understand you, so therefore we can own you.’ We’re not running that operation.” — L. Ron Hubbard lecture November 10, 1952
Another quote on the same theme — god is something invented by man in his own image:
A god of this universe, an anthropomorphic god — and I hope that you understand me very clearly when I use this word ‘god’ loosely and even blasphemously, for the good reason that this thing g-o-d is something which man has set up in his image. And it is merely an ambition on the part of a thetan, it’s an effort, a co-effort on the part of thetans to have a playing field and so on. And there is, actually, beings above the beingness of this universe. There are beings, but they are not this anthropomorphic thing who is the jealous god, who has hate and vengeance and so forth, that happens to be above that level. And the jealous god, the most jealous god there would be, would be a god who would insist at all times that he must not be duplicated, even to the point of not using his name in vain. He mustn’t be duplicated. No graven images. His space, it’s all his space and so forth. And we go on this way. Interesting, isn’t it? — L. Ron Hubbard lecture, December 14, 1953
And another:
There is nothing more simple than for a fellow to duplicate himself any place in the universe because he isn’t any place in the universe because he is every place in the universe. Any one of you immediately, any one of you immediately answers up to the definition that has been given the anthropomorphic itself entitled God. Any one of you, because you’re everywhere on omniscient and omnipresent, and on the bus, and everything. — L. Ron Hubbard lecture, January 7, 1954
And another:
Authorship of the universe is something which has been in question for many years. People have been arguing about this for a long time. Even in ancient times the Christian argument with the conservative, status quo religion of Rome involved the creation of the universe. Who created the universe? In the early days of Greece, you found the various factions fighting over this fact of the actual creator of the universe. People have a tendency to run it backwards and try to find an earlier creator or a master creator, or this and that. What are they looking for? They’re looking for you! You’re hunted! To that degree, you’re hunted. Fascinating. — L. Ron Hubbard, January 22, 1957
Some real gobbledygook on the subject:
I have a book which proves absolutely the presence of demons and demon exorcism and proves completely a priori — oh, the most fascinating reasoning is the bulk of this book. You just feel your brains go creak as you read this thing…They go on and prove absolutely that the word of the church is law. And then they prove the fact there was a demon present. Just as I say, you, just, brains go kind of creak. It’s got one of these things in practically every column, two columns to the page, quarto-size volume, for about three or four hundred pages. It’s a very old book and was printed way way back when. Fascinating volume. Well, I want to prove pan-determinism to you on this line now. Now, a thetan can see what he can be; he can be what he can see. Now, have any of you ever seen God? Well, come on, come on, have any of you ever seen God? All right. You’ve never seen God, huh? OK. If you have never seen God, this proves conclusively that God is the Supreme Being at the eighth dynamic. Isn’t that right? Oh, yes it does! Because you’ve never seen God and you’re being self-determined, which is the first dynamic. So this merely demonstrates to you that individuals are not pan-determinism. You follow this? — L. Ron Hubbard lecture, December 16, 1954
And so, to supplement this and supplant it and get rid of the liability involved, they say, “Well, there must be a cause someplace,” so they invent a God. And they say the God must therefore stand out there and be cause all the time because it’s so obvious that we can never be cause because we just run on Newton’s three laws of motions without even knowing about Newton. — L. Ron Hubbard lecture, 30 March 1954
He thought of “Christianity” as an implant as far back as 1952. You also have the “confidential” HCOB, “Routine 3, Heaven”, 11 May 1963, part of the SHSBC era.
For a long time, people have been cross with me for my lack of co-operation in believing in a Christian Heaven, God and Christ. I have never said I didn’t disbelieve in a Big Thetan but there was certainly something very corny about Heaven et al. Now I have to apologize. There was a Heaven. Not too unlike, in cruel betrayal, the heaven of the Assassins in the 12th Century who, like everyone else, dramatized the whole track implants – if a bit more so.
And his infamous 1968 Class VIII course lecture entitled “Assists”:
And people were ferried in here by the billions and the billions and the billions and they were ferried in here with boxes. And they were put in boxes and they were stacked around. And the people who were on this planet already just caught it in the teeth. They weren’t bothered .. no body bothered to pick them up. They just shot their administrators from guns, and shot their control points out and they took these people in boxes and so forth and they dumped them and then they set off hydrogen bombs on the top of each primary volcano there is on this particular planet and when they blew up it blew the thetans into the air and after the bomb an electronic ribbon, which also was a type of standing wave was erected over the area. The tremendous winds of the planet blew every thetan there was straight into those particular vacuum zones which had been created. These were brought down, packed up, and put in front of a projection machine which with sound and color pictures first gave them the implant which you know as Clearing Course and then a whole track implant which you know as OT II.
After this, however, up about a .. the remainder of the thirty six days, which is the bulk of them is taken up with a three-D, super colossal motion picture, which has to do with God, the devil, space opera, etcetera, they go five pictures to five words. And we have the full record of
what it is, and it goes on for about thirty six days and then these poor bastards were let wander out .. pardon me .. they were then boxed up again and the boxes were mixed so that .. there were two assembly areas, one was Las Palmas and the other was Hawaii. And in these two assembly area they took samples from each volcano area put it in little boxes. And they had an assembly line. And in Las Palmas it runs down the main street of Las Palmas. You get more damned accidents on that main street than you can shake a stick at. One of our captains was feeling rather queasy until I told her: “Well, the old assembly line of R6 is just twenty five feet from you as you lie here on the slipway”. That blew the charge.
The entirety of Roman Catholicism, the devil, all that sort of thing, that is all part of R6.
He put this imagery on the front of the Introduction to Scientology Ethics book, as with many of the images he put on the covers of his books (including Dianetics and History of Man) because he claimed these images were out of the R6 bank and would command people.
You can draw your own conclusions about what Hubbard believed and what he taught scientologists to believe. All in his own, unalterable, still 100% valid words.
In no defense of L. Ron Hubbard all creation stories are myths.
Scientology’s creation story is no less fantastic and incredible and/or ridiculous and impossible than the creation myths of the Ancient Greeks’, Phoenicians’, Egyptians, etc. , etc., including the Judeo-Christian Bibles’ creation theory.
I mean, God took a RIB from Adam and made Eve? Talking snakes? Come on! Have you ever seen a talking snake?
Neither have I.
To further illustrate:
Noah taking a pair of animals of every species, a male and a female of every species onto an ARK for 40 days and 40 nights? Sure! How did they feed the carnivores? You know, the tigers, the lions? How did THEY get fed? Did Noah and his kids throw them a zebra or a live baby wildebeast to eat every few days? Please! OK, maybe he DID build something and take a pair of SOME animals on board. But EVERY animal? Didn’t happen. That’s fiction. ( Which is not to say that there was no Great Flood btw. Strong scientific evidence exists for that.)
And then there’s the Virgin Birth and coming back after dying on the cross. That never indicated to me. Why can’t Jesus Christ have simply been an amazing man, teacher and prophet with revolutionary principles about how we should be treating each other as human beings? Ditto Moses?
My point:
I’ll bash the Church of Scientology for the cruelty of its Ethics policies like Disconnection and Fair Game. I’ll point the finger at them about the utter ridiculousness and unworkability of lots of their Admin Tech like the Birthday Game.
But their creation story? That’s a joke and not worth it.
Its juust one of countless other fabrications courtesy of religions and cults throughout the ages.
Xenu et al doesn’t bother me. He’s an amusing character. Its an entertaining myth.
But then, that’s my reaction to Biblical magic and the Greek and Roman and Germanic myths too. The Egyptians had some wild stuff too. Very entertaining.
Although, in fairness, other religions have never to my knowledge made their believers PAY big bucks to learn about their top secret BS-ness.
In fairness to scientology, OTIII is not a creation story. It’s a “joiner”, nothing more.
Hub’s actual creation story is arguably theta + individuation. Though he kinda poo poo’d that idea so who knows.
You’re right! Thanks for pointing that out! Xenu didn’t create anything PER SE. He orchestrated the population of Earth. He arranged it all. His story is just a myth as to how “Teegack” got populated but these “beings” were ALREADY CREATED and not by him. Xenu merely rounded them up somehow and SHIPPED them here. Do I have it correct now? I’m asking because Ialthough have some familiarity with Xenu et Al I never did OT III. Not even close 🙂
Earth was already populated (250 billion people), but yeah. Billions of the old confederation’s undesirables were captured, drugged, shipped to Earth, blown up and brainwashed.
Allegedly.
Earth was already populated with 250 billion people? Wow. Must have been awfully crowded back then! Or was that a typo for “million?”
😊 Yes, 250 billion…with a b. Plus the hundreds of billions (if not trillions) more that were shipped here from across the confederation (76 planets in total).
All dead.
55 million years later, those who’d been implanted attached themselves to incoming thetans jumping along earth’s new hominid lines and they’ve been influencing our progress ever since.
Notes:
The CoS has emancipated at least 225 million body thetans over the last 55 years (by my estimation). That’s just under 4.1 million per year, on average.
If only 2.5% of the confederation was implanted (334 billion people) it will take the church over 80,000 years to free them.
If 20% of the confederation was implanted (13 trillion people) it will take the church over 3 million years to free them.
Question:
Seeing as the CoS benefits from the existence of the R6 implant, couldn’t Xenu’s actions be considered “ethical”?
Correction:
If 20% of the confederation was implanted (2.7 trillion people) it will take the church over 650,000 years to free them.
Wild stuff, mwestern. My head is spinning! Glad I didn’t do the OT Levels 🙂
Very true,
So sad that the church convinced Heber that he has done “so many bad things.” They brain washed him into thinking he was bad when the opposite was true. And kudos for Alexander for trying to rescue him.
Mike,
Two missing God Hubbard writings are the “Home Universe” section of the Time Track bulletin in the NED Course.
And then “One Was Stubborn” fiction 1940 story, the point where Old Shelback is talking to George Smiley and Shelback is trying to put a “table” there out of nothingnesss. And then Shelback realizes he can go off and create his own universe, and be God himself, of his own universe.
The “One Was Stubborn” writing is critical to simplifying Scientology, and distilling what Hubbard thought of God, and how a person, each of us, though doing the Hubbard quackery, would be on our ways to someday (in some future life, distant way up the time track) elevate back up to God like ability to start our own Home Universe.
Chuck
– who has spent years, helping students, get the simplicity of what Hubbard thought of God, etc.
“Home Universe” from the Time Track Bulletin, is the key ref. And “One Was Stubborn” 1940 foreshadows even that, and more, that story from Hubbard is critical to frame all of Scientology.
From the Route to Infinity tape #6 (21May 1952):
I mean, God is everywhere; he isn’t watching you, you are it.
So, “thetans” which are NOT Matter nor energy are blow around by wind???? Scamology is internally inconsistent in the extreme.
Off topic,
But does anyone notice the parallels between the indoctrination effects of the cult and those that are spoken of in Mattias Desmets mass formation Psychosis?
See this:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/unfounded-new-psychosis-theory-is-being-used-to-dismiss-covid-precautions_n_61d9c56fe4b0bcd2195fd8c1
I guess that since you posted that article that you as well believe it’s unfounded.
My question was does anyone see the parallel, you do not.
Yes. It’s bitterly disappointing that after leaving one cult I now find myself having to navigate my way around various others – be it political, social, pharamaceutical, etc.
“The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation. Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority.” – Milgram (1974).
To be as deeply in as I was, wow. On one hand, having to defend actions and stupidity or worse, thirty years. Then on the other hand, peeling it all off and realizing, for lack of a better word, OOPS!!
I see it clearly in society now in many ways. Humans are way to psychologically frail and liable for misdirection in too many ways.
I saw cap’n flubbles as genius, then came to find out the truth. I realized that he wasn’t as bright as all that, BUT he was capable of putting into motion something that is still careening down the highway, not quite on it’s own, but still wreaking havoc, in lives, real living people.
If he could do that, imagine who else could. How do we really know how that would look?
just sayin.
In the UK, one of the primary advisory bodies to the government during the pandemic has been a team of behavioural psychologists (Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviours (SPI-B).
We also have a “nudge unit” (which has now been exported to the US, Australia, Canada and others) which has been utilised to err…”nudge” people to get jabbed.
Oh my. Just looked that up, and I see that the group reports to SAGE. Sounds marvelous!!
Here in the states, it depended on which state you were in regarding the actions taken. I am in Georgia, and the reaction was different from other states. We in Georgia were ridiculed in regards to the laxness of the measures taken. The streets in the middle of the week were almost empty from sometime in Feb to April or May 2020. The only crowds were in Home Depot and other building supply companies. People were at home and doing those undone or wanted to get done home projects when they weren’t working from home.
Almost hard to believe that this is still going on over two years later. Hard to believe except for the religious fervor applied to the policing of the “remedies” and the enforcing of the correct ideas that apparently I do not have.
The enthusiasm and zeal of enforcement seems very familiar.
“Hard to believe except for the religious fervor applied to the policing of the “remedies” and the enforcing of the correct ideas that apparently I do not have. The enthusiasm and zeal of enforcement seems very familiar.”
Agreed. It’s especially chilling to see it in such large numbers. That crappy (& useless) mask/chin diaper is becoming the new hijab/niqab. But as more truth comes out (esp re omitted data/research and the fudging of stats) hopefully a few more will start to resist and speak up. Hopefully.
Hehe, yes. “SAGE” sounds so earthy and wise. In reality, they are a quack team of doomsayers, whose laughable “guidance” and junk modelling data are finally being ignored by our oafish PM. https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/01/21/the-catastrophe-of-the-covid-models/
Use of fear to control behaviour in Covid crisis was ‘totalitarian’, admit scientists https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/14/scientists-admit-totalitarian-use-fear-control-behaviour-covid/
Hey, if you can share links to scientific testing that supports that theory, please share them and I will gladly read them.
Otherwise, it’s just an idea or a hypothesis that hasn’t been scientifically validated. On the other hand, there is quite a bit of research that has been done regarding cults and undue influence and how specific kinds of conditioning and indoctrination affect behavior, perception, cognitive abilities, etc.
I hear ya, always a good idea to trust in data.
I am only talking about my experience as a former zombie that came back from the dead. Ever since, I have this newfound ability to sense the dead in others.
I am trying to be funny, but alas.
Ideas are identities to people. Sometimes the best idea is to try to rethink and see what happens. I do that quite a bit nowadays.
I only have my experience to verify, and my opinion is otherwise worthless. No scientific papers to reference. Some books that could be read. take the dive!!
Atlanta Guy,
What DOES happen, as we both know from our scienbollocky experiences, is that people will often go along to get along, and can even be influenced to say, think, or do things that they might not otherwise do outside of a tightly controlled, relentlessly manipulated situation that includes constant indoctrination and group-installed self-policing mechanisms…
I can see how that might appear to be some kind of greater or lesser “mass psychosis” to a person viewing that group from the outside.
Jon Atack has a bunch of videos on Youtube that address undue influence that are worth checking out. And if you haven’t already checked Robert Jay Lifton’s 8 Criteria For Thought Reform, definitely do so…
Cheers!✌🏾
I gained a great ability from my embarrassingly long tenure.
Cicero believed that Rome was great specifically because of their belief in many Gods. In the second and third centuries. Romans could confront Christians with a simple question. If the Christians rejected Roman Gods and professed a belief in a single God, they were beheaded on the spot. The great stoic emperor Marcus Aureleus finally gave Christians some relief. Chicken shit Hubbard had to believe in multiple thetans. Besides, one God would mean Hubbard was a slave.
SurvivingScientology
7 years ago
I support the 1st amendment I believe It is important that adherents to a religion are free to believe whatever they wants to believe.
It is Ok with me if people choose to bow to elephants with 2 trunks and walk backwards chanting mantras. Whatever.
My videos on no-God-in -Scientology Inc have nothing to do with whether God does or does not exist. It is whistle blowing on the deception that God, or “the 8th dynamic” as stated in the their own texts is an URGE. An urge to survive as a Supreme Being.
There is no deity or Supreme being over there. It is YOU. This fact is greatly covered up. Why do I make this an issue?
I am in touch with so many who served the Church 20 years, 30 years, 40 years and exited. They are no longer Scientologists. Some are in very very rough shape, mentally, emotionally, spiritually.
The Church that was supposed to make them higher and enlightened spiritual beings battered, abused and clobbered them. Some had mental breakdowns caused by the “Church” Some have PTSD symptoms from serving in the Sea Org with sleep deprivation, isolation, imprisonment. and unconscionable punishments.
They have nightmares. How can it be that an entity fooled the IRS sufficiently to receive Religious exemption as a bona fide religion ?
How can a malicious hate group masquerade as a religion while destroying lives ? And all along convincing the slaves within to believe they are saving the world ?
Clearing the planet ? How can this be ? My son Alexander was all too aware of the dark side of Scientology.
Alexander knew about SP Hole, he knew his father Heber had been imprisoned in there for years.
(Alexander had already been manipulated to disconnect from me the last 2 years of his short life. He was on his own.) He told a mutual friend of ours of how he tried to rescue Heber.
Heber was only *permitted* to see Alexander 11 times in 15 years.
On their last visit together they lingered in a car outside 6331 Hollywood Boulevard, the building of Office of Special Affairs. “Dad,” Alexander said gently “Do you “Have” to go back to INT Base ?”
(Alexander knew of the “seances”, the beatings, the sleeping under the desk punishments in SP hole.)
He did not want Heber to return to that. Heber hung his head. “Son, I have to go back” he said sadly. “I have done many bad things” he added.
That was the last time they ever spoke. Alexander was dead at 27 only a few months later. This is the Church that has you beg,borrow or steal $$$$ to give them, to follow a pathway to *Godhood.*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6-hs3c_NTM
Superb comment, Karen. Thank you.
Aquamarine, you seem to be one of the individuals who understands that all of Scn is a help to the individual’s own considerations and “efforts” or urges to understand and handle life and others. I’m sure LRH would be happy to convey understanding to anyone – wouldn’t we all? How nice if there were a “responsibility bullet”! Just shoot someone and turn them into responsible individuals! Responsible for themselves, responsible at least to some extent, for others. Unfortunately or not, that isn’t really possible in whole, even if it is in part. What disappoints me is listening to people who insist on trying to make others responsible for their lives.
Thank you, Straight. My best takeaway from being in Scientology for 27 years was that looking to take SOME responsibility for the actions of others gives me peace as much as taking responsibility my own actions gives me peace. I don’t always succeed at this!
But to the degree that I do, makes me happier and certainly less angry. The thing with applying the LRH “Full Responsibility” data is that as individuals we don’t exist in our own little bubbles! What I do and say has affects on what you do and say and vice versa ad infinitum. “Full Responsibility” on all 8 dynamics for each of us as individuals and then as groups is certainly a marvelous goal! And certainly if this WERE so applied we would be living in paradise. But hey, I’m not holding my breath 🙂
For my part, I try to take as much responsibility as I can for my own behavior and for that of others with whom I am connected. When I succeed I’m happier and things go more smoothly in my life. When I lose patience and my temper and start blaming I carry some anger and things don’t go smoothly no matter how justifiedI might be in judging and blaming others.
Still if I don’t make that effort to look from the other person’s viewpoint, to look and do my best to understand then I’m not – how do I say this? – I’m not at peace. I may be right, but I’m not at peace.
In brief, I’m not into carrying around blame of others or myself! Its just not healthy for me.
Huge subject, and many enlightening observations you made. I appreciate your explanation. I get what you say about being at peace (sounds like YOU really got Grade III, heh heh).
“Full responsibility” has (IMO) a bit of a twist in it, that one must grant another their responsibility, while still seeing them as burdened with their banks and misemotions and mis-attitudes and all. And still handling communication. The separation of universes thing. Not getting trapped into blame and hatred (as you point out). Along with responsibility is knowledge, and control. Control would be direction towards worthy goals, such as responsibility and communicating knowledge to others, hoping at least one strand of spaghetti sticks.
Optimum would be a “shared” responsibility. I hesitate to say “shared” because that sort of implies agreement or mutual dependence, and what I mean is more at a coincidence of responsibility, similar to a coincidence of viewpoint.
It’s always nice to read your posts, and learn from your example.
P.S. I found your reply only in my junk e-mail folder – I didn’t see my post appear after a “moderation” notice, and I thought I had been banned or subject to some technical glitch. Maybe it was my choice of analogies about how one might wish to – hypothetically – communicate responsibility. The “impelling a particle” thing.
So sad that the church convinced Heber that he has done “so many bad things.” They brain washed him into thinking he was bad when the opposite was true. And kudos for Alexander for trying to rescue him.
Oh Karen, my heart aches for your losses……your words are a testament to all the wrongs within “the realm of COS”….. HOW can a so called “Church” separate children from their parents. SO indoctrinated by “them” that Heber feared for the loss of his eternity…his new meat body…..like many churches fear of eternal damnation.
A long time friend was a member of a cult…born into it….she was taught to “share her body with any man who wanted it & be fully submissive to a man’s wants & sexual desires for her”. She was raped at 12 & continually sexually assaulted & abused with her parents going along with it. Golly gee, her MOM was also very popular with the male church members & “dear old dad” was enjoying as “much fruit (females) as he could pick”.
Only through the grace of a higher power did she not get pregnant & a member on the outside who was a medical professional would “perscribe medications for ills”…by that I mean STD’s etc….as if these people were patients of his (he lost his license & went to prison after the Legal Authorites were notifed & the “commune” shut down & dismantled. Several people went to prison (this was in California).
She ran away at 17…..long story I won’t go into other than a group I was volunterring with helped her. She got her GED * College Degree & living a good life now with a great job.
She’d seen her parents at different times over the last 15 to 20 years….worn out, dried up…homeless….penniless…not well….still moving around since “the group was dismantled by the LAW” & there was no place to go outside the former Commune”.
It seems like despite our great wishes COS thrives. They are keeping the young ones IN because they need THEIR LABOR & WORK…..one would think something could be done about it……………SMH..
Bless you Karen….my thoughts are with you for Heber, Alexander & yourself.
Thank you for your kind sentiments.
That is quite a story on the youngster in the cult.
Blessings to you as well.
Tragedy, perpetrated by sick, sick psychopaths. Most normal people have no clue as to the evil of the cult beliefs.
El Wrong Blowhard:
Read him, “brain kind of goes creak”…
And to Erhard: No, Jesus didn’t “add love(or ‘affinity’) to Buddhism and Hinduism”.
For anyone interested in parsing Hubbardian word salad, consider using this information as a contextual frame:
https://lermanet.org/exit/parsons.html
No, Jesus didn’t “add love(or ‘affinity’) to Buddhism and Hinduism”.
I miss something here. You should tell me something about. You should take the environment of Jesus, and a half known Buddhism and half known Hinduism… and then add Love or Affinity. Then you have the meaning of my words.
Religion is always a part of a part of a part of other religons. On planet Earth is no religion which is really complete as a releigion. Each religion has a missing part. We have in generell three of them – Wisdom, Love, Fight…
Erhard,
I’ll use Buddhism as an example and briefly address my disagreement with your assertion that love is somehow “missing” in buddhism.
Buddhism teaches 4(FOUR!🤗) kinds of love:
LOVING KINDNESS
COMPASSION
APPRECIATIVE JOY
EQUANIMTY
Scienbollocky was not conceived in the spirit of love and is not, in its policies, beliefs, or actions, loving(Hubbard’s affirmations and his contradictory, rancid bloviations/policies/”theories” unequivocally confirm this).
I politely suggest you read more about the various schools of buddhism AND hinduism; there are extensive discussions about what love and loving action are and practices, meditations, and prayers devoted to heightening an adherent’s awareness and practice of loving thought and behavior.
your assertion that love is somehow “missing” in buddhism….
Naturally it is not missed… but I said to you that it was not part of the dissemination in Middle East a tthis time. In my view is Buddhism and Hinduism promoted as and for Wisdom… and Christianity is promoted as Love… and Islamism is promoted as Fight or Fighting. It is my view to Religion on this planet. There are smaller religions there… but there use the same elements – the Wisdom (which includes all by itself Love), the Love (as seen in realtity includes a lot of Fight), the Fight or Fighting (which includes also Love and Wisdom)…
I spoke basically about the intentions of Jesus – and so he added Love. It is something what he has missed at this time at his place. I am sure that Jesus did not intend to build up a religion – but he is finally promoted on this line, and so are the associations to or with him. It is ab basic observation from me – about.
Scientology and Love. It is not much about in the books. But it is not a missing part. Everybody knows the Tone Scale. You know that LRH said “Why is Love missed on this scale? Okay, this is a scale of Love if you want to see it this way!”
You may find that each level on this scale is an expression of Love. How much love can a person have in Fear? It will be completely unstable. You can use it for every line in the Tone Scale – how much Love is possible?
So a level of wisdom is high on the tone scale – and so it includes a lot of Love. It is not missing part at all…
“In your view”. Oh boy. Sigh…
You make simplistic, inaccurate, reductionist generalizations about the various religions.
And the bit about the tone scale having ANYTHING to do with “love” or “wisdom” is patently false.
Hubbard was neither a philosopher nor a scientist, and to imply that scientology is comparable in scope, impact, or societal value to that of the Abrahamic religions or of the Hindu and Buddhist traditions is utterly absurd. All of those religions, atrocities and abuses committed in their names notwithstanding, have rich, long-standing philosophical, mystical, scholarly, charitable, and artistic traditions associated with them.
Again, the proof of scientology’s innate evil can readily be found in its own “scriptures”, as well in Hubbard’s well-documented, stated intentions to create a religion that would make him a lot of money and be a means of world domination-with him as the exalted leader.
The tone scale is a malignant narcissist’s tool of control, domination, and degradation.
I stand by my suggestion to you to read more about those various religious traditions.
You make simplistic, inaccurate, reductionist generalizations about the various religions….
Basically it is my intention to do so. Reductionist Generalizations. You mean here Wisdom, Love, Fight – and that is really reduced. But one point about, it is not untrue in generell mind. Therefore the generalizations. If you go specific – it is a generalization. I am not specific. I am not.
The Tone Scale is the Tone Scale – and it is LRH words that it is about Love. I have not invented it. He said so. You can basically see yourself thaz any level has his own expression of Love. It is the scale of Affinity.
It is a scale of Evaluation. But you can use it for what you want – or not using it for anything. Basically it is a scale of observations, and it is written as an result of an observation. It is okay with me when it is nothing for you, but it says nothing. Expression of Love or Affinity is in any way an expression – write a better scale… I myself mean, that boredom can be existend on all levels … not so much on fear, but why not?
Hi Erhard,
Just because El Wrong said the tone scale was a tool of evaluation or a”scale of love” doesn’t make it so.
The tone scale is an illogical assemblage of loaded language that is used to enforce a glib, falsely enthusiastic allegiance to Hubbard, his so-called religion, and its criminal organizations. It has no basis in love or compassion. It has zero scientific validity. It is used to enforce and solidify the emotional disassociation created by scientology auditing and training(i.e. indoctrination) and assists in inculcating an unquestioning obedience to a malignant narcissist’s conception of human relationships.
It is just another piece of the toxic scientology puzzle that falsely labels others, and its use consistently marginalises, corrodes, and degrades its adherents and those they interact with.
Hubbard, and the so-called “tech” he supposedly created all by himself, view humans as objects, particles, and tools… to be used, manipulated, controlled, discarded, and/or ruined…for his benefit, his bloviating and blathering about spiritual freedom notwithstanding.
Again, to repeat: scientology, from its conception, to its policies and practices, to its organizations and leaders, to the aggregate history of ALL of those things, is not and never has been about love or the uplift of individuals and society. The empirical evidence that supports this assertion is OVERWHELMING and readily available
(e.g. scientology/dianetics books are rich sources of lies, fabrications, championing of cruelty and criminality, fascist and racist sentiments, etc. Also see his Affirmations/Admissions https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/03/29/l-ron-hubbards-affirmations-admissions/ )
Erhard,
Check this out, as well:
https://scientologymoneyproject.com/2022/01/15/a-collection-of-scientologys-intelligence-gathering-spying-and-pr-materials-originally-published-online-as-the-frank-oliver-hat-pack/
There is truly some amazing stuff in here! With “Ron the scientist” thoroughly debunked, his academic achievements revealed as a sham and his various titles as “dr”, “psychologist” and “engineer” demonstrated as fraudulent, hubbard is frequently positioned as a “philosopher” by his few remaining minions. This seems safe as anyone can claim to have opinions that they like to pontificate about.
But seriously? Jaw-dropping inanities such as “infinity is eight rotated” (or is it vice versa?)? Writing with typical one-draft sloppiness and thoughtlessness in triple negative head scratchers, such as “I have never said I didn’t disbelieve in a Big Thetan?” Or plain credulity that no serious thinker can afford to indulge in, such as “I have a book which proves absolutely the presence of demons and demon exorcism and proves completely a priori.” At which point, the “thought peters out altogether. Yes, and if I wanted to, I could have a book by a guy who claims that he was abducted by aliens, and what they did to him next–let’s not go there…
All of these demonstrate why it is impossible to assemble voluntary followers around these ludicrous emissions. It’s all too obvious that serious coercion is required to “keep scientology working.” And even then, it’s a losing attempt…
The Canary islands are about 3.5 to 4.5 million years old.
https://www.grancanariainfo.co.uk/gran-canaria-geology/
The Hawaiian islands are about 40 million years old.
http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&PageID=364
The OT 3 volcanic islands/ frozen thetans story supposedly happened 75 million years ago, probably based on early estimates of the end-cretaceous meteor event. Today most references say it was 66 million years ago instead. This was certainly a big disaster for Earth, but not for the other nearby star systems or for other planets in our solar system.
At this time there were no humans on Earth or even any mammals larger than a house cat. So what happened to all those frozen thetans after the 3D movie show? Hang out at the beach as clams for a few 10s of millions of years? Clamping on Tyrannosaurus Rex as lumpy body thetans for a few million years until they all die off? Then jump to the sloths? Some holes in this holy story.
https://park.org/Canada/Museum/extinction/cretmass.html
Something doesn’t add up here. Hubbard was entitled to his opinions about the existence/non-existence of the supreme being. He could even conscionably spew his contradictory and incoherent opinions on his followers. It’s a free country. Doesn’t even disqualify his movement from being called a religion.
He does have some responsibility as a leader to present a self-consistent cosmogony to avoid miring his followers in hellishly excruciating cognitive dissonance. Failed there.
Bruce — your last sentence is a beauty!!!
This clearly shows his lack of formal education which led him to draw absurd hypothesis.
Keeping in view its 50’s Cold War era , Communism vs Capitalism becomes believer vs non-beliver , such texts might get him 6 days of fame ( for a week, as there was no cabel news and internet).
It also.exposes his ignorance about teachings of main stream religion.
What ever he cooked , gave him what he desired: guilty conscious followers, never question about validity and legitimacy.
But now due to Social media it’s getting exposed and public is reading it just-for-laugh.
Bruce,
In Hubbard’s Case Supervision writings, the “C/S Series?, he says that a case (a person) will incorrectly remember stuff.
So, that’s how I rationalized Hubbard’s own case. He himself isn’t to be trusted on dates, which is clear, when you look at the Track Map “tech” writings.
When NED came out in 1978, and the “Track Map” booklet came out in later 1980s, showing the 1950s era “Track Maps” writings which are in the Tech Vols, and also when looking at the Emeter dating drill, you can easiy “put it all together” to escape the cognitive dissonance of Hubbard’s buffoonish horrible “case shape” of himself, him giving these dates and so forth.
But agreed, when you hear even more and more, the majority of Hubbard’s pronouncements are just a slap in the face to rationality. Magical worlds stuff, from the PDC tapes, and then his dates obsession (even the massively long date in the held up worksheet Pat Broeker held up at LRH’s death event), Hubbard’s “dating” on his own track cannot be respected as correct.
But people will have had their “DateLocate” pseudo-therapy. I had the “Date/Locate” repair a few times, and I’ll bet there is a normal rational psychological set of ideas explaining why “Date/Locate” “works”, likely because people are fed up and wish to get on with their lives and get out of the snarled up pseudo-therapy they are mid, since one gets the “Date/Locate” procedure when things are botched up.
But I think Hubbard did leave leeway to every person to be their own “judge” of their own “case” and then doing the Hubbard quackery pseudo-therapy, the person is allowed to find some past life nonsense to help them bail from the Hubbard quackery of the moment, at least.
The person is allowed to inventively creatively create some bogus incident and some date to this bogus incident, to get out of the quackery “session” snarl one is in.
I think viewing it all as just escaping the bogusness of the momentary snarled blind alley in one’s imagination of some past life incident, is all this whole Hubbard quackery pseudo-therapy and exorcism is.
It’s all bogus, in people’s heads, and the dates DO NOT match anything real. Hubbard said that as one advances, one sorts this out. That’s not true, though, since he didn’t sort it out for himself in the end.
So even my excuse, Hubbard’s excuse, is false. One’s imagination doesn’t solve the bogus past lives memories one dreams up.
I felt my greatest relief, mentally, towards the end of the RPF, when I started to realize all my past lives memories (and I had 125 pc folders of past lives bullshit memories) were all bullshit.
It’s all bogus, all my imagination.
It’s quackery, past lives quackery, and then exorcism quackery.
Xenu’s the only thing worth remembering, as it’s a word that smacks Hubbard right in the face.
He made Xenu taboo.
– xTeamXenu75to03chuckbeatty
Chuck, most of Scientology cleverly avoids the issue of exact times, dates and events that could be independently checked out. Questions like “is there an earlier similar time you had a pain in your arm?” Leaves it up to the person to fill in details.
There is even an issue called “Charge and the Time Track” where he explains that details may change and shift as the person goes over the material. He says that there are many time periods that are very similar, so no one should be surprised to remember Roman Legions on other planets millions of years ago. All the bases are covered.
Of course, got to say I never got to do the OT levels myself. 40 years in Scientology and the highest level I achieved was something like the Scientology Drug Rundown. Just going by the reports of others, though, the big exception is the Xenu story. The story, timing, details, the two incidents that you run are all supposed to be common to everyone.
This violates a key part of the Auditor’s Code “I promise never to evaluate for the Preclear or tell him what to think about his case”. When they sit down to read the super-confidential materials of the Section 3 OT level they are told these times, locations and events. They have to accept them or fall out of Scientology.
Hubbard really gets himself in trouble, not only using dates and locations that are impossible but insisting that everyone has the same experiences.
No wonder these levels are confidential. They are logically inconsistent. Only those who have gradually accepted ever more contradictory “facts” as they ascend the Bridge would have enough cognitive dissonance burning in their brains to even consider accepting the OT 3 story.
@Bruce Plotz
“So what happened to those all those frozen thetans after the 3D movie show?”
We were all thawing out at my beach place.
Where the hell were you?
I have read some amazing material in my life. These are not some of them. I seems, at least to me, to come down to the old saying:
“If you can’t dazzle them with foot work then baffle them with (hay processed through the bowels of a male bovine.)
Just my take.
The entirety of Roman Catholicism, the devil, all that sort of thing, that is all part of R6.
Mabe it is – maybe it is not. What is the difference? The story of Jesus is a manipulated story anyway. It needs some this and that and imagination to make him a messiah… and it is an old prohecy. It is a jewish story – and this people do not believe in Jesus. So it looks like an implant, and that is maybe the only reason why LRH spoke in this way. Above of that LRH knows nothing about. Speculations of Maybe.
Jesus did add a part to Buddhism and Hinduism. He put in Love – or Affinity. This is surely not a part of an implant. The idea do it for GOD for helping yourself is a misleading idea – GOD do not ask you for something. He stood never in any place anywhere and said “Do it for me”. There is no person anywhere who asked something like that… Moses told us, should not doingnessess… but there were only few people interested in doing such stuff… but he said also, protect your soul.
The idea of protecting your soul is basic of religion. This is not an advice… it is an idea for you to protect yourself and protect others. The idea of LRH and Scientology is basically similiar – but if you look at it, you will see it really. When you come in, you are very quickly blamed for having a reactive mind… and you should help clearing others… which have in the same moment a greater reactive mind than you. It is the basic concept of Scientology… blame, blem, blame… and it is on the Affinity Scale below Zero.
Blaming others for having a reactive mind is bad sort of affinity – blaming others for out ethics is the same sort of stuff. But it is called HELP… Believing in GOD is correcting things which run a wrong way for the benefit of yourself and all others. Blaming connected with help is maybe a workable way.
In the current Church is blaming a routine… so we are on the line of implant. It goes away from GOD, but it is also not protecting yourself and others. What has Scientology to do with Protecting yourself and Others? It should be clear that protecting yourself is first when you will protect Others. It means that you should not use an aberrated Mind set… and it means also that you should not agree if you do not agree for yourself. If you do so, you would never have a reactive mind.
I remember how I got a reactive mind… it was the moment when I agreed having one. Strange – isn’t it?
But having such a cognition makes me wrong for the church – but it is really easy to do. It doesn’t mean that I have used this mind set… It means only that I’ve tried to solve something which was not there…
It is like sorting out GOD. You cannot sort out anything about as long as you have no communication with him. You have to take the 7th dynamic and then the 8th dynamic… and then you can speak, and you will see that there is an answer. It is not so impossible…
I appreciate you bringing all this to light, Mike. After reading a bit of the first Hubbard quote I just can’t get myself to continue reading his drivel. Forget telling me I have MUs. It’s just that his writings are all utter nonsense.
Indeed. Same for me.
So glad circumstances forced me to leave and some years later woke up enough to realise it was all complete garbage.
I shudder to think where I would be today if I had gone any further with it.
Imop, the 8th Dynamic is reached when the Scientology victim walks out. In order to do that, they must let go of depending on someone else to tell them what to do – what to believe. They have to look inside and find Source there. This leads to the beginning of true transformation.
Bridget,
You are the first person I’ve ever heard say what I know to be true. I learned I am Source and Cause over my Life and have never been happier since. Nice to hear there’s someone like me out here.
Absolutely! Realizing that I alone am in charge of my life and that no one is going to save me or take care of my growth for me was difficult, but once I accepted it, true growth and freedom began. I’m glad to hear from someone else who has stepped into this – good luck from me to you, Glenn!
In scn we never spoke of God or prayed or did anything that was even remotely religious. Occasionally ‘Sunday services’ were held but it was only used for PR purposes.
Anyone who has been on the staff can confirm this.
However, to be honest, I have to say that there is something they pray for every single day as if they were gods:
Money and statistics (which will later become other money).
In scn more ‘religious’ than this you can not.
In the malignant narcissists world, there is no god but themselves. Grok that Lron.
Of all the things I’ve learned in scn and discarded this is is still closest to my current viewpoint, and no less bizarre than any other religion. I frankly don’t care if there’s a god or not – I certainly don’t see much evidence of one. The thought of us all being part of one big theta connection sounds more real, but frankly freaks me out.
Same. But why would it freak you out?
Saying that Hubbard is God would be TOO honest.
I’m fairly sure that Hubbard thought he was God. He often acted like it.
Seeing it all in one place, it looks like something a drunk person free associated.
I’m having a moment of cognitive dissonance. There was a time when I would have gotten out my demo kit and carefully placed bits around to try and gain understanding from that steaming pile.
It’s like I hitched my wagon to a madman.
How did I not question it?
Ah, we weren’t allowed to discuss it because of the possibilty of hiss, verbal data. That’s a laugh. Because he didn’t want us to alter that. That! Ha.
Hey, I’ve got a win, we had enough imagination and smarts to wrest some sensible thought, at the time, from that. Therefore we ought to be pretty good at putting together IKEA tables with missing steps and missing screws.
Lemonade baby.
To me it is easy to see how Hubbard’s books and lectures from the 1950s are the ramblings of a guy who hasn’t yet got his ship together. He constantly adjusts and modifies earlier “beliefs”, and then he expects the crowd to cast aside the old and adopt the new. From time to time he gives obvious hints that he is just making it all up as he speaks, or as he writes. There are plenty of hints that the audience should recognize as ‘letting the cat out of the bag.’ Keep the word “Arselycus” in the forefront of your mind when anything Hubbardian wafts by on the breeze.
Hubbard’s Brain Fahrtz – You Can Tell By The Smell.
If you meet GOD you confront Time. When LRH spoke about GOD he spoke about time. This time, that time. If you live on planet Earth, or everywhere, you olay around with time. In Heaven there is more time and in Hell it is lesser time. Both is a feeling about time. An universe can be measured in time. LRH gave here billions of years, but this is not this universe. How long is a second? A tick. What is present time? It is a part of the tick – a moment later it is gone… it is surely gone. You can took million years into a second, but you cannot do the reverse. Try it – you can make million years to a second – but not a second to million years. Try it to make a second to hundred years… try it, and if you do, you will feel closer to GOD.
You play surely with the 7th dynamic – and should therefore be closer to the 8th dynamic. There are a lot of feelings you can have about time. MEST depends on time. It would not be there without time.
GOD is not everywhere… he is always… sounds better – or not? Maybe you are always, too… Hey you!
Um, er, Tubbyism at it’s brain twisting and headache inducing finest.
El Con Tublard, The Twerking Tautologist!
Shake that thang, you whole track wanker!
After reading today’s post, I had a “cognition”:
Target Two is a Galactic Sea of Shit!🙌👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽