My wife wrote an article for her Buddha Belly Doula website.
It is about the influence of scientology thinking on children — something I can also relate to. It captures the thinking of scientologists about education and raising children perfectly. If Hubbard said it, it must be true. I thought it very appropriate for readers of this blog. You can read it here: Let Children Think For Themselves
I love your blog and the series on A&E. Thank you for what you are doing Mike.
Question: Why can’t you go after Scientology for breaking child labor laws? Is it because they are working for a ‘church’ and not a company?
I sent this link to a friend of mine. She was in the SO with me and basically grown up in scn and joined the SO very young. Now she is out and living her life. This is what she answered me back after reading Christie’s post:
“Oh my! I remember those exact same words from my dad! And funnily enough, I approach the education tion of my children like she does: let them think for themselves!”
I sent it to her because I knew her story and in my opinion she is still having some aftermath after that experience due to what happened in there. Thanks.
Beautifully written, Christie … and heartbreaking to read what your dad advised. I wouldn’t have imagined that of him during the years I spent with him and your mom. Your dad really was a guy people looked up to, so it makes sense you’d follow his line of thought. But your dad was ALSO a rebel: he didn’t easily go along with things he disliked. In a way he didn’t realize, he helped give you the courage go your own way. I’m so impressed with your journey, and the woman (and mom) you’ve become. Big hugs. x.x.x.x. Robin
I love what Christie wrote.
That’s exactly what I do with my granddaughters and it works great.
Since they take me for an encyclopedia with answers and explanations made to measure for them, often and willingly based on the question I just ask “what do you think?” or “how would you see it?”.
It is an immense help that gives many results over time and brings them to the center of their universe.
Brava!
I wanted to baptize my son in the Catholic faith- I was refused as I was a divorced non-catholic woman. I baptized him in the Lutheran faith which I referred to as the rejects of Catholicism. We didn’t attend regularly, only on “holy holidays” or when I felt I needed peace. When my son was 5 years old he asked me how I knew what was in the Bible was true. Kind of floored me, and I couldn’t give him an answer other than it is just something you have to trust in. Well, that didn’t go well for his inquisitive mind at all!! He decided he did not want to sit through church, and I didn’t force it. He is now 18, and a very bright young man. He questions everything, and if it doesn’t sit right with him he researches until he is satisfied he learned all he wants to learn about a subject. Some subjects, such as music, he is passionate about and will more than likely try to master as long as he lives.
When you said to ask your child what he/she thinks, I thought Yes, this is it!! No matter how young they are, it is important for them to understand they have a mind and a choice to believe or not believe. Thank you for sharing!
Superb comment. “No matter how young they are, it is important for them to understand they have a mind and a choice to believe or not believe.” I so agree.
Hi Mike,
Here is an article that might help explain “woke education.”
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/public-education-has-gone-woke
Thank you Christie,
You have covered what is needed. Constant love and nurturing while allowing children enough freedom to expand and explore themselves inwardly and outwardly.
My parents told me much later that they mainly worked to keep me from sliding into the ditch along the road of life. They did voice concern when I got involved in Scientology (post college) mainly as: Are you getting as much out of it as you are putting into it? I always kept that thought in the forefront of my mind.
Woke Education being pushed by fanatics complicates the picture. I’m glad I’m not a parent trying to explain that mess to my children.
What is “Woke Education”? Not heard this term before?
This is from the dictionary.com slang dictionary
SLANG DICTIONARY
woke
or stay woke or get woke [ wohk ]
WHAT DOES WOKE MEAN?
Woke means being conscious of racial discrimination in society and other forms of oppression and injustice. In mainstream use, woke can also more generally describe someone or something as being “with it.”
On the plus side I think most people would agree with increasing equal opportunity for minorities. On the negative side it’s an insistence that America is inherently racist and/or bigoted and pushing that viewpoint into the educational system which I term Woke Education.
It’s a big topic and I only became aware of the “woke” concept a year or two ago.
Woke | Definition of Woke by Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › woke
Woke definition is – aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice).
We wish that Dave would WOKE up!
The reference to the to the BookTV discussion got messed up and I probably should have deleted it anyhow as too far off topic. Anyhow here’s the correct link if anyone is interested.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?509030-1/the-breakdown-higher-education
Without making a political statement, I never paid much attention to politics until Trump got elected. On ESMBR there was and still is a lot of political conversation and the term woke came up about two years ago. I had no idea what it meant and asked about it. Someone replied, “Are you for real?” and referred me to the definition. haha
End of itsa (it is a = idle rambling)
You’re glad you’re not a parent explaining to your child that being racist/homophobe/sexist, etc is wrong?
I was born in the 70’s and taught to treat all with respect. I guess that’s what you mean by “woke education”. I don’t think being taught not to be an asshole to somebody based on their race/sexuality/gender is a new thing, Richard.
Fox – Probably most parents would not object to some “mild” sensitivity training of their children, teaching them to be respectful of all the other students but it doesn’t end there these days. There are attempts to eliminate gender specific words and push an entire social and cultural agenda that whites are “suppressors” and blacks, people of color and lgbtq are suppressed and their victims. No thank you.
I can understand that many people honestly believe that the U.S. Constitution was written by white men who wanted to protect their privelege and overlook the problem of slavery. That doesn’t mean I agree. I guess George Floyd and the pandemic brought some issues which were smoldering in the culture to the surface.
Like so many other cult like religions that thrive, they do so by blocking CRITICAL THINKING. As I’ve said so many times before, if you only are permitted to see ONE SIDE of the coin, & forbidden to see, read, or delve into anything ELSE, you cannot compare one thing to another.
It’s about mind control, you’ll stand up 100% for the ONLY thing you’ve be taught, lived, & know from the cradle. It IS like the strict FLDS or Fundamentalist Christian Baptist religion where the man is head of household & the women are subservient to his demands.
OBEY WITHOUT QUESTION the “leader of the pack” or else you face being disconnected, shunned, disassociated, abandoned, separated from your family, extended family, friends etc.
As parents we should GUIDE our children….WE have had life experience & HOPEFULLY MATURITY to guide them into what is right & wrong….that there ARE & always WILL BE CONSEQUENCES for the decisions they make from infancy that carries over into their adult life.
We as humans are NOT perfect, there are no “perfect books” & no one has lived a perfect life. We LEARN from the mistakes we’ve made (hopefully) & that our OWN actions bring on OTHER actions or consequences that we might or might not like.
My own son was seemingly “goofing off” in high school as in “I’m here, what more do you want”. One day I pulled him aside & said “This is YOUR LIFE you’re screwing up. You can chose to continue to clown around & MAYBE graduate & work for minimum wage or less….OR you can STOP clowning around & USE your brain & graduate with High Honors, go to college, get a degree or MORE & THEN get a high paying job”.
THAT it what it took, giving him CRITICAL THINKING & CONSEQUENCES ALONG WITH COMPARISON to what IS & what COULD BE. From THAT day forward, he “cleaned up his act”…..became an A or A+ student garnering HIGH HONORS & a 4.0 GPA. He went on to FOUR years of college & then a MASTER’S DEGREE in Business Admin AND Computer Science. He is a top notch Product Engineer for well known Fortune 500 Company….. & earns a great salary.
CONSEQUENCES FOR OUR ACTIONS….we ALL get them or have had them. Teaching our children CHOICES & Autonomy to THINK FOR THEMSELVES helps them to grow in to independent people.
I very much enjoyed the article & fully support Mike & Chris in their endeavors to raise their sons with LOVE & PARENTAL SUPPORT.
I wish I had a mother like you. It’s a long sad story but from the age of 12 I knew that I hated my mother and there was no “wiggle room” in that. To this day, my thinking still occasionally drifts off to a few major incidents in my life during which I wish I would have just told her to “Fuck Off”.
I envy people who are able to forgive people who have done them great harm. That is something I’ve never been able to do.
I grew up in a dysfunctional home. My father worked his ass off & paid all the bills. we had a roof over our heads, utilities, food, clothes etc….but he was “emotionally distant from us”. He was an only child of an alcoholic father & mother who worked 5 to 6 days a week to support the family, passing him off to friends & relatives for baby sitting.
Sadly, my father had a terrible temper & short fuse & an explosive nature. He was not physically violent but we did suffer emotional abuse. His “thing” was to poke fun at us, tease us, call us names….put us down. We weren’t rewarded for good grades & he rarely praised us.
My older brother was a full blown schizophrenic, diagnosed at age 17 after he had a full blown breakdown from reality. Even as a kid, I KNEW something was “off with him” but in “those days” kids with issues were simply referred to as a “problem child”. My younger brother had SOME sort of mental defect, never diagnosed. He too give my parents nothing but problems & grief & the WTF happened here issues.
I was the “normal child” who did well in school & thusly so…my needs were put on the back burner, over looked, push aside because I was told “I didn’t have any problems”. Yet since I was always very petite, in school I was bullied. I was told to “fight my own battles”…my mother had her hands full with my brothers & my father distanced himself with work responsibilities.
I paid for college on my own since my dad said “girls get married & spending money on college is a waste of money”. I babysat since age 13 & worked full time from 18 yrs on. I was EXPECTED to pay room & board since I was working, not so for my brothers.
Once I married & had two children, my parents had no interest in being grandparents, my son was 7 when my father (his Grandfather) died, he’d only seen my father 5 times in his life. My daughter of course being older, maybe saw my father 7 times. As now adults, they have NO real memory of him. My mother they knew a bit longer, but STILL, no real memories of times shared with her.
Believe me when I say I KNOW YOUR PAIN…..yet we can’t change a thing we endured. I made my kids lives BETTER than mine was. Sadly, my husband had some of the same family issues with a mother not being involved with our children’s lives. She ewas a “clean freak” & Grandchildren who might mess up her home were not to be tolerated. Of course, our kids paid the price for that, when their friends Grandparents were around them but my kids’ Grandparents chose NOT to be.
We BUILT our OWN family..TRUSTED older friends who willingly became substitute Grandparents & gave our kids the love they needed, & US TOO. We were BLESSED to have them in our lives & our kids hold them dear to their hearts.
Skyler23…..if you search DEEP inside you heart….You CAN FORGIVE & try to move past this. NONE OF IT WAS YOUR FAULT. Like my father & my husband’s mother, they ARE what they are & you can’t change anything that happened like I can’t change it.
Of course, to FORGET, that rarely if ever happens. Both my parents have been deceased, my father for over 30 years & my mother for 6 years. Yes, flickers come & sad memories come back to haunt me….they are GHOSTS of the past.
Try to live your life to the FULLEST…… hold those you cherish or care about close to your heart. Do what you can to brighten someone else’s day…..You ARE a good person who deserves the BEST IN LIFE….friends are HERE for support & BE HAPPY & SMILE>>>>that my friend is the BEST REVENGE.
Balletlady, Thank you for sharing your story. It helped me. My father died fifty six years ago. I forgave him about thirty years ago. Our family was built around working in a small restaurant. I started peeling hundreds of pounds of potatoes every day around the age of six or seven. My father was alcoholic and abusive and violent. He got drunk on the golf course and hit me with one of his wild shots on the fairway. Rather than tend to the injured leg, he attacked me swinging his fists and blamed me for blocking his shot. Thank God a few of his buddies pulled him off of me. This is one minor example of what I hade to deal with until he died when I was seventeen. This is why I still at times defend Hubbard. Dianetics helped me in the end before Scientology turned to crap. But I did forgive my father,
Hello friend George, thank you for the compliment as I too feel your pain. I am sorry for the burden you carried for so many years. It’s been said that “Children learn what they live”….that is why often times when WE become parents, we strive to be much BETTER at it.
My mom’s father (my Grandfather) died when she was almost 5 from a brain bleed……he left her mother (my Grandmother) with FOUR kids under the age of 5. At that time little did my Grandmother know, he had deserted his first family in another state, leaving two daughters & a wife she knew nothing about. These two women had never met, so a good part of the mystery was never solved. When he died his father claimed his body & buried him in their home state since my Grandmother had NO burial funds.
He lied on their wedding license indicating “he was never married before & had no other children”, huge lie. When he died suddenly & unexpectedly, my Grandmother was only 25 at the time, with FOUR kids & NO $$$. They were very poor. My Grandmother was NOT “warm, touchy, feely or comforting.” She took good care of the kids, ONLY to have her then 9 year old son die from a burst appendix. You can imagine how that went. Nothing but being poor, hungry cold with a bitter mother.
My mother focused on my two brothers who had problems, she’d run after them cleaning up the messes they created. Again, my father who held down a highly responsible job, was “absent” from that drama. As I said, I was left on the side lines to fend for myself.
My Grandfather was a full blown alcoholic (my father’s father)…he would steal my father’s toys & sell them off to buy himself a beer. He too would become aggressive, pushing my grandmother around for a 25cents to buy himself a few beers. He died by suicide when I was 8, & left a permanent stain on many of us.
It deeply cut me to hear how your dad attacked you physically…we look up to & depend on our parents to protect us…you father failed miserable at that & I am truly sorry for the pain that caused you.
Yes, we can forgive IF we CHOOSE to do so. After all this time, I am still working on FULLY completing that task…as I said the ghosts of the past still haunt us. Sometimes it’s a song, a color, a setting, a word….that brings it back.
My eldest brother is still living & under medical supervision for decades as he still is living the BACKWARDS LOGIC of thinking he does NOT need to take “his medications to stay grounded”. I have had to OPTED OUT on having him in MY life because of the destruction he’s caused for over 50 Years.
My younger brother sadly had mental health issues also…never diagnosed..too much to go into but he died at 43 by suicide as well.
I am thankful for my OWN husband & kids..& PROUD of them & I LET them know everyday that they are the most important people in my life. I try to visit my parents’ grave when I can, they are is 2 1/2 hours away from me, but it fills me with sadness & regre3t for “what MIGHT have been” & what they missed out on not wanting to be involved in being Grandparents.
IF you got anything GOOD out of Hubbard’s renderings, that is to YOUR credit…YOU leaned into it for the good of YOURSELF. Sometimes the written word hits home & if that worked for you, that’s a Blessing.
I wish you continued happiness & peace within yourself George. You ARE indeed like Skyler 23 a wonderful person who should find JOY in the small things in life….including the care & friendship from someone you don’t know but truly has “been there” & understands.
Stay strong, keep smiling, help someone in need & be GLAD you’re here with us!
Thank you very, very much, Balletlady. Your story brought tears to my eyes. You are indeed a friend. I wish you happiness and freedom from suffering.
Thank you for your kind words Balletlady. It really helped me when I thought about the past and you are so right in that it is impossible to change the past. I understand that I need to focus on my life and try to find happiness as best I can.
I do have a small number of friends who help to sustain me. I need to focus on spending my time together with friends who I can share my life with.
God bless you friend. I am very happy that in the midst of such a horror show, you were able to emerge with a life so much happier than the other people you grew up with.
In my opinion, you certainly do deserve this life you made for yourself.
Thank you friend! Sometimes friends become the family we WISH we’d had. In our case, our “adopted” older friend sustained us through many a blue day. They were THERE for us when our parents basically all but abandoned us.
Both sets of parents missed our kids births, baptism, first school day, religious events. Our nearest & dearest friends were there.
In hindsight, our closest elder couple had kids who ignored THEM!
Ironic isn’t it, that their own children chose to do that. Maybe because they were NOT “well connected or wealthy” as their kids were college grads with high salaries & associated with people like that, & their parents were an “embarrassment” to them.
Hold close & cherish those to whom you are connected. They were brought into YOUR LIFE for a REASON! Especially now, with so much illness & death, we NEED to remain connected to those for whom we care & who care for US!
So many nice people here who respond to my posts & make my day better, including yourself. We’ve tried our best to make our kids’ lives happy & they ARE.
Sometimes in life, strangers become good friends, either personally face to face or on line! Wonderful isn’t it! We can share each other trials & tribulations & JOY TOO!
Cold here today, but the SUN is out & the sky is blue & not too many cloud. Trees are budding, my daffodil tips are starting to push their way up….my Husband is out there working on raking out the “stone driveway”……just had stone delivered after the really tough winter the the 27” of snow now gone.
The ghosts of the past are STILL there, they haunt us here & there, but do NOT deserve our attention. WE DID NOTHING TO DESERVE WHAT WE WERE HANDED.
The BEST is yet to come! Have a GREAT day friend!
Great article , to the point and very real .
My daughter was literally pulled out of college by recruiters . She is now the loving mother of 3 children and going back to school . It has been a long road for her and at times very painful but it is never too late .
Strong women !
Wow. So happy to read she’s “recovering” and is going back to school. She will be able to enjoy so many gifts of motherhood that the c of s would have taken away.
This is by no means limited to Scientology.
I lived in Alabama for 2 years.
I had a teacher who claimed that the Bible is the perfect book and contains the answers to everything.
For a while I had a Southern Baptist girl friend who said exactly the same thing.
Of course, not all of these Bible Belt Christians were like that. There were some who held more Liberal views and saw much of the Bible as parables rather than as being literally true.
I was in Scientology for much longer than I lived in the Bible Belt but I saw much the same thing.
Not everyone believed every word that Hubbard spouted, not at all.
For instance, Hubbard said that smoking does not cause cancer but can actually mitigate it.
One might have expected that every Scientologist would immediately take up smoking as a result.
Personally, I am a lifelong non-smoker and I was certainly not about to take up this dirty habit. I don’t know of a single person who did. I lived in a house with 7 other Scientologist non-smokers.
I did meet plenty of Fundamentalist Scientologists who were, I suppose, the Scientology equivalent of my teacher and girl friend from the Deep South but knew many more who were not like this at all.
As someone who was also born and raised in scientology, I can say that this was my experience as well.
Although both of my parents had the benefit of having received excellent educations (both held advanced degrees), my siblings and I were discouraged from going to school, let alone college. Instead we were encouraged to go on course and study LRH full time because they believed that was all we’d ever really need to know. Many kids who were raised in scientology never get passed 7th or 8th grade because it simply isn’t considered to be important in scientology. As an adult I can say that lacking an education has been a serious obstacle. My parents did us a true disservice.
As a parent now, I emphasize education and I teach my children to be skeptical and to question everything.
Very good article, Christie. Hubbard did not have the answers. Only a cult leader claims all the answers. We got our kids out of Scientology to avoid having to do what you went through. When they got to be about ten and found out we were in Scientology, we lost them for about two years. They could not believe we were so stupid.
It is interesting how your Dad talked to you. He seems to have tried his best. My Dad was a violent, abusive alcoholic. May he rest in peace.
Great article by Christie. I’m 70 and I guess I was lucky in that my parents pretty much let me make up my own mind on things (my father had VERY strong ideas on what was right politically ,but he really didn’t have the energy to follow through on indoctrinating me fully.) Their lassaiz- fare attitude meant that they didn’t protest when I joined staff at 19, and gave up on a college degree.
I got a lot of gain from my training and processing ,but it now kind of stuns me that I went so quickly into agreement that ONE man knew the truth about EVERY single aspect of life. Incredible!!!! Yet I totally bought it, even when he contradicted himself. I was very demanding on myself in the sense that I didn’t JUST accept everything Ron said, I worked each datum out until it had some meaning to me. But … when I couldn’t make an LRH datum real to me, I just pretended it wasn’t important and moved on. Yet I still agreed to the “group ethic” that we ONLY quoted LRH when deciding the truth or direction of any issue. As Scientologists, our “own universe” and personal integrity of observation and decision ultimately meant nothing and could not enter into the equation about any part of life if we didn’t fully agree with LRH. .
I had a similar upbringing by what might be called normal or average parents so it’s interesting to hear stories from people who were raised differently and be reminded that many.people were raised differently.
There was a family in my neighborhood which had four boys. I enjoyed going to their house since their parents allowed them to cuss out loud in the house which was unusual and which I found very entertaining.
O/T. Two recent academic papers that may be of interest to people here.
Studying Scientology as an Anti-Democratic Institution: Suggestions and Cautions to Future Researchers
IMPLICIT RELIGION, VOL 23, NO 2 (2020)
Stephen A. Kent
Issued Date: 5 Mar 2021
https://journals.equinoxpub.com/IR/article/viewArticle/42795
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
Abstract
Addressing future researchers who may undertake research on Scientology, this commentary offers a number of cautions related to issues that they likely will encounter. Most of these issues stem from the organization’s anti-democratic, authoritarian nature and resultant policies, which include attempts to curtail any and all activities and research that its leaders conclude are out of alignment with members’ obligation to ‘keep Scientology working.’ Ethically and morally questionable activities within the cult (which is a term that I define) include its own judicial and penal systems, its systematic harassment of perceived critics, its data storage and protection issues, and its extensive but highly questionable manipulation of members – any study of which likely will elicit censoring reactions from leadership. So too will studies about probable membership shrinkage; its sizable body of financial constituents; and its lobbying efforts and network of lawyers, supportive academics, and expert witnesses. Although I encourage newer scholars to undertake Scientology studies, I urge them to prepare for interference attempts that almost certainly will come.
Download Media
PDF (PRICE: £18.00 )
DOI: 10.1558/imre.19161
* * * * END EXCERPT * * * *
***************************************
Apostate Memoirs and the Study of Scientology in the Twenty-First Century
IMPLICIT RELIGION, VOL 23, NO 2 (2020)
Carole M. Cusack
Issued Date: 5 Mar 2021
https://journals.equinoxpub.com/IR/article/view/42798
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
Abstract
The Church of Scientology (CoS) under L. Ron Hubbard (1911- 1986) pursued an aggressive strategy of shutting down critics and protecting its reputation. This policy, known as ‘Fair Game’, resulted in limited scholarly engagement with Scientology, in part due to difficulties in accessing reliable sources. From 2008 onward highprofile defectors published memoirs of their lives in CoS, multiplying source materials available to scholars. This article argues that these texts, which have been sidelined because of the hostility that the authors express towards CoS, are valid when carefully integrated into the fabric of available material on Scientology, which includes scholarly assessments, journalistic accounts, and a range of primary sources, of varying provenances.
Download Media
PDF (PRICE: £18.00 )
DOI: 10.1558/imre.19164
* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
//
From above, “Apostate Memoirs and the Study of Scientology in the Twenty-First Century”
“Apostate Memoirs” – laughter – I don’t know who came up with the phrase but it hasn’t been mentioned for awhile that this blog is mostly populated by “bitter apostates on the fringes of the internet” lol
Oh man! For me this is hard to read. I can really feel the love that Christie has/had for her father, that a child has for their parent, that my son had for me. I actually was one of those scientologist parents that wanted my sons to go to college. When my youngest got sick of Delphi and wanted to drop out of school before finishing, I insisted that the first thing he did was get his GED. Interestingly enough, I didn’t realize that as his parent I could insist he finish his formal education; I had drunk just enough scientology Koolaid to let dropping out of high school happen.
He did get his GED right away. But from there he signed up for his Class IV Internship at Flag. This is where I saw the shift in my son. This is where the Koolaid took hold. He became a dedicated scientologist. The decision to disconnect from me started on this internship, even though I was a few years from refusing to go back into the church of scientology.
Mothers don’t let your children grow up to be scientologists.
It’s interesting to me that Sammy also got “sick of Delphi” and he wasn’t even on the “work/study” program like me. They certainly do not have very good statistics for actually getting kids through their program and graduated, which says a lot about it and LRH study technology.
I love that you made him get a GED. I **WISH** my parents would have done that for me.
Praying that Sammy sees the light, Mary. Love you!
🌟💖🌟💫