This is for posterity’s sake. A bit of relative calm before the storm on the horizon.
This is a list of the unfortunates who have handed over cash for the Valley “ideal building” (there is no “org”).
I notice the Silver Humanitarian Taufer-Gregorian Family — I assume they are in some way connected to Quinn The Eskimo… ? And Bart Simpson (Nancy Cartwright) is now identified as “Nancy” rather than the Royal Governess OT Rockstar Princess Queen etc etc etc. Apparently it is still embarrassing to include her full name, though I cannot fathom why this is? And I had no idea my old handcuffed friend and paddleboat captain Ed Bryan is now supported by Pat Frey?
I am certain eagle-eyed readers will spot other things here that have some significance.
And it is kind of remarkable how many of the whales on here are from OTHER orgs. Lucky they never had to do this for CC Int or they would have already tapped out about half of their big hitters. And many from Pasadena and even LA Org. Valley has become a convenient sink hole for all things “ideal” to tap out the remaining LA area KoolAid drinkers.
Interesting how they are sucking the last life out of everyone in LA with the “final org to make LA ideal” and are doing the same thing in the Bay Area — hitting on everyone there for the “final” ideal org for the Bay area.
I suppose it never crosses anyone’s mind that there will ever be another org in either of these locations. Apparently it is gospel (“church doctrine” perhaps?) that the existing orgs have “got it” as far as “clearing their communities”. They just don’t WANT to notice that they are not even making a pinprick, let alone a dent into “clearing” anything. There are more people born each day in both areas than ALL the orgs have “cleared” in the LAST 10 YEARS combined. They are losing ground at such a rate that they are going backwards, possibly at a rate 47X that at the time of L. Ron Hubbard’s death… Could this be the mysterious 47X figure?
Yet still they devote all their energies to getting the 5th “ideal org” because somehow THAT is going to make a difference?
It is hard not to look at this insanity sometimes and not shrug and say “if they are that stupid, they deserve to be fleeced.”
Except for one thing.
These people are being lied to. A massive pretense is being foisted off on them to lead them to believe that their money is accomplishing something important. Though they may be astonishingly gullible, if not downright stupid — those who are TELLING the lies need to be stopped. The perpetrators would argue that the people willingly give them their money because scientology is so valuable to them and they WANT to support it. That argument, like so much else, turns reality on its head. And would be akin to Bernie Madoff explaining that his “investors” gave him money willingly and did so because they were greedy and they knew that investing money in anything is not a sure thing. “You handed it over to me — caveat emptor sucka.”
The people I feel most empathy for are those who have given money against their own best interest. Those who it inflicted pain or hardship on to make their “donation.” Not Bart Simpson or Michael Bayback or Craig Jensen. They get the limelight and the accolades. It’s relatively meaningless to them.
Just like Madoff and other rip off schemes, this scam must be stopped as it is hurting people. It’s just harder to accomplish because it hides behind the cynical shield of “protected religious belief and practice.”
But that does not change the fact it is based on lies — and even that is fine if it sticks to “beliefs” for EVERY religion has unprovable beliefs that non-believers can call lies. The issue is when those deliberate and knowing lies result in people being hurt.
It would be good to see some more UTR’s coming out publicly and have them send emails to all their contacts BEFORE coming out. That is how the KA drinkers will hear about things. They are not allowed or allowing themselves to read the blogs. So anyone coming out, please send it out to your personal friends before the church has a chance to black PR you.
Mike,
There was one person’s request to you to mention more info for the “fence sitter” types of Scientologists, still half in, for pieces of advice.
I think that’d be interesting to have a TIPs from Power Fence Sitters, or something, summarizing TIPs of the most successful fence sitters, would be a laugh to read, and helpful to many like that person who asked for that type of gradient info.
Chuck
Chuck — well, I am not a fence sitter, so I can’t write this….
But I do have a lot of “classic” articles and links to Debbie Cook’s letter and Luis letter on the front page of the blog, easily accessible to anyone who comes browsing….
I am not going to keep repeating the same thing over and over — this would not be a blog if I did.
But I may at some points reprint some of the “classics” for newcomers.
I know.
I’ll maybe try to write some “Guest Essay” and see if I can get it by your editor, LOL!
I’d love to pick some of the great questions people put here, and dig up some answers for them, and this person’s comment, you’re right, it’s been answered many times and many ways, and like you said, so maybe the answer is do a “Guest Essay” and keep it short.
“…whether scientology says it is or isnt belief is what is irrelevant. It is certainly belief because the ONLY relevant standard for it is subjective. Just like it is for every religion.”
LRH doesn’t come across like he’s being subjective, and since he wrote most of everything one reads when you start into Scientology, all I can say is from hindsight you are correct, it’s subjective, but Hubbard himself sure doesn’t at all conveniently just simply admit Scientology is just all subjective.
Scientology literature just smacks of positive actual gains to be gotten from Scientology, all the time, it overwhelmingly isn’t namby pamby about what you will get in terms of OT abilities at the end of the OT levels, supposedly.
One thing I’d like to see of Scientology’s money gathering, is spend it back on society someway like other religious charities do, at least.
People who can’t say no to regs, I remember telling my Scientology boss at his Scientology business once, that he needed to use OEC Vol 3 and use the FBO Series against the IAS reg lady who came money to hit him up for money for the IAS.
I told him treat his business and his personal finances exactly like the orgs HAVE to treat their finances!
Orgs can’t take loans!
Orgs can’t spend more than they make!
So, he should NOT be donating to the IAS if all it did was put him 100 dollars in debt!
I’d have told the IAS regs to take a hike! That’d be how I handled ANY reg, I never had to, I was staff so never got that money hounding.
But when the IAS regs kept coming, month after month, hitting my Scientology boss up for 3 to 5 Gs a month, my boss caved every time!
That was 2003, that was Burbank, so I’d love to see what Myriam Bright and Brigette whatever her name is, are doing weekly these days for IAS WUS.
Taking money for donations from people who can’t build their family’s lives, well, to me that traces really sadly right back to LRH, in the “Million Dollar” MOs (Mission Orders):
MO (Mission Order) 375 of 14 Aug 1970
“If the Captain does not know that Advanced Course are the most valuable service on the Planet he will not be able to understand HARD SELL. Therefore he must realize: That life insurance, houses, cars, bonds, college savings, are all transitory and impermanent and based on things not surviving, or on things that are in fact being destroyed.
“Advanced Courses rehabilitate the Thetan to his O.T. abilities and last forever and give immortality.
“”Hard Sell” is based on knowing and promoting in this line (TRUTH!) and not being reasonable about people who want “other things” or “other practices”. There is nothing to compare with Advanced Course. They are infinitely valuable and transcend time itself.”
– LRH extract from Flag Mission Order 375, 14 Aug 1970
Big League Sales and Hard Sell are directly ordered by L. Ron Hubbard.
Scientology staff have countless policies telling them how to handle Scientology public so the public keep moving “up the Bridge.”
And Scientology doesn’t admit being subjective, that’s not LRH’s style at all!
What seems more the big sadder fact of the Hard Sell fundraising for the Ideal Org buildings, is that in societal terms, other religions hitting up their members for buildings is normal!
And it’s a given all religions think that their religion will save earth.
So whatever inflated claims Scientology utters fundraising for their buildings “makes sense” to the existing world of religion building donation gathering!
It’s like different levels of hype about subjective truth of Scientology’s validity (in any of Scientology’s heyday periods or even in this era of non delivery of the spiritual therapy and exorcism).
Getting the Scientologists some tips to NOT treat their personal finances and their business’s finances “off policy” (which they are doing when they ruinously go into debt like my Scientology boss did and like hundreds of others likely are also doing), is even off policy for orgs.
Scientologists should just treat their personal and business finances like the orgs treat their own finances!
That’s be my defense were I reg prey.
My old Scientology boss had gotten himself over 100,000 dollars in debt, which matched his contributions to IAS, his person debt equalled his IAS donations. 100,000 not 100 dollars
It is similiar to a friend of mine .. he picked up 70.000 DM as credit for IAS .. it was his greatest release to do so .. he tried with his promo to get 10 people or more to do the same .. so he would get the 10% commission .. it did not work .. so he has his debts ..
Excellent Chuck. Way to sane for a kool aider though.
Does Kirsty Alley never donate?
You never see her name or Anne Archers
That is noticeable isn’t it!
I’ve wished in history for us to have an ex IAS Reg, one like Brigette Kellerer (she’s remarried) or Myriam Bright, defect, and give us the insider’s lowdown on WHY some Scientologist celebrities are able to hold to their guns and NOT fall prey to IAS regging and the other specialty regging (ASI, Freewinds, BPI, ABLE groups).
The regs know they best defensive anti reg tactics that they face from the “Power” Scientologists who are Power Tightwads!
Really, in reverse, I’ve thought another whole angle of knowledge to share with the Scientology Fence Sitting community, would be their fellow Fence Sitters’ most successful Fence Sitting Tactics.
That would hopefully draw this conversation out to that growing group of official Scientologists, who are interested in what others are doing these days amidst all this giddy fundraising nuttiness.
It’d be nice to have an article about how some Power Celebs put the regs off!
Over the years, in the Sea Org, different sub groups sometimes come up with discreditable slang against public who are “assholes” in some way.
I’ll bet in Myriam Bright’s mind, she has little Scientology sayings flit by, like “Oh, such and such, she’s a Power Tightwad!” “Oh, such and such, he’s a ……”
All the tougher sell Scientologists, the regs have little sayings and slang for them!
It’d be fun to share to the public what the bummed out regs sometimes think of them!
It’s not all lockstep Miscavige top level counter-behavior, but down the ranks, I’ve been in the WUS IAS reg offices (when I was on the RPF in PAC, doing some tiny renos work in their offices), and I knew Myriam from years earlier, so overheard some of her IAS regging live, and watched as her IAS WUS superiors waltzed around all self important, well they DO think what they are doing is ultra important and it’s pretty high stakes, their tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars regging income each week), but that office atmosphere in the WUS IAS office, for instance, over the years, is a whole strange constant struggle to make money.
I wish we’d have more defectors, so people could see what life’s like in one of these IAS cont reg offices, by an ex defector who can capture the craziness in full.
I am sure celebs donate. They just don’t allow their names to be published. In fact, I heard that from a knowledgeable staff member many years ago.
Mike, this is a great post; thank you.
I wanted to note something as a reader, in reference to this. In 2011, when I first started to “look at things” regarding my church, there was a lot going on at the time to give me the info I needed. Debbie had just sent out her e-mail, Luis Garcia had his letter sent, Marty Rathbun had weekly postings pertaining to the church, frequent “out” letters from leaving parishioners, etc. There was a lot being published directly about the wrongnesses for those “in” to see the truth.
As I read these days, I see a lot of what’s being published being geared more towards those who are already out, but lacking the specifics that I found published when I needed it the most.
Maybe from time to time, there could be more postings about the out-tech, how regging is off-policy, specifics on why even DM is not a good person, etc. In the blogs I frequent, I see them having evolved into more of a current news source; valuable to me, but perhaps over-the-head to someone on the fence.
This could maybe help some of those poor souls still in who are looking for truth.
Thank you for all you do. Years have gone by and still you are here as many have moved on. Your help is priceless.
Plus 1 Millllllion!
My feelings are that we should reach out to the people who are being taken advantage of and give them a hand up, not push their face further down in the mud.
Like Jesus said, “Forgive them for they know not what they do.”
Plant seeds. They will grow.
My sentiments exactly! You’re a good soul, indie8million! I really appreciate what you posted.
Great point indie8million!
And, Mike Rinder, if there is an Indie Kha-Khan, you got it, baby.
I guess I would be surprised if the top FSM’s give much to the IAS. Who would pressure them to give? Besides, even if they do not know the IAS is a scam, I am thinking they probably believe that since they are bringing in so much money to the IAS that, in a sense, they have already given.
There’s a scene in the Woody Allen movie Take the Money and Run in which the main character, Virgil Starkwell, is caught trying to escape from prison. He’s then sent to “the hole,” an underground solitary confinement cell, with an insurance salesman. As the two climb down the ladder into the cell, the well-dressed, briefcase-toting insurance guy shakes Starkwell’s hand and then tells him that the insurer has a new kind of whole-life policy that would be perfect for a convict like him.
There is a worse punishment. Its to be in the hole listening to recordings of David Miscavige. That has
to be worse than any prison. Is there a worse fate than to spend your lifetime this way?
OMG Errol,
Being in a dark solitary hole having to listen to David Miscavige’s recordings, OMG! You’re talking BIG punishment – implanting.
Greta
If one considers ‘order of comparable magnitude’ what sort of truth will crack the back of the cults operating basis? So far the legal system is treated like some sort of play thing – money sued while I’m sure it hurts to part with isn’t really the solution for a quick fix for the cult. The legal system obviously doesn’t give a hoot about justice and is as blind as a bat as far as common folks suffering goes.
I hope your efforts hit pay dirt sometime soon Mike. Something really juicy to broadly disgust & anger the media seems like the go. There’s got to be cure in there somewhere.
“this scam must be stopped as it is hurting people.”
who’s going to stop them, just ex scientologists?
why should the wogs care? they don’t have a stake in it.
it’s a scientology thing, it’s got nothing to do with anyone else………right?
i just want to make one thing plain for some of the readers of this blog.
scientology is ONLY a wog problem, it is not somebody else’s problem.
scientology is a scam and it is perpetrated in the wog world and it victimizes wogs directly and indirectly.
i made the following point in a very old post. there is a reason the indie field does not get the same treatment by wogs as the official church. the reason is people are not being abused.
they make the same claims that to me and many are outlandish and yet no one bothers them beyond any incidental criticism that all religions get just as all religions make claims that seems crazy to non adherents. no one calls for their end.
that shows the basis for calling out scientology is not a religious one but a civil one.
that makes it a wog problem, not a problem only for ex members, but everybody’s problem.
most wogs do not ask for whom does the bell toll? we know it tolls for us. what diminishes one, diminishes us all.
now if some of us can just remember that, it would be nice.
What diminishes one, diminishes us all. Words to live by. That’s the only reason I’m here.
I think the 47X means we must make 47X the amount of money than we did last year. Cap’n Crud can see the whole rotten edifice is collapsing and wants to make he can grab every last cent before it falls over.
jag,
Yeap, that IS the worst kind.
Probably not for much longer. Either OSA or Karma will catch up with him.
Greta
It will have to be Karma cuz I doubt OSA cares.
In fact they probably encourage it. After all it is all
about the money…….ie: IAS.
Mike, make sure that you post the full names of every celebrity who gets the “first name” treatment in these promos, not only Nancy Cartwright, The Voice Of Bart Simpson, occasionally known as Her Royal Governor The Valley OT Goddess Who Gave TEN MILLION DOLLARS To This Boondoggle. A couple of weeks ago, you posted one bumf with “Marisol” and “Erika”, and I think the search engine aggregators deserve to know that those people are Marisol Nichols and Erika Christiensen.
Oh, and Noelle Norris is probably better known as Noelle North. We need to push her Scientology-related search engine entries (including the infamous Subway video) above her cartoon voice work.
By the way, who is “J&L”? If I gave enough for Vanguard With Honors, I think I’d prefer to be known by more than my first initial.
I don’t see the name of one of the “top” WUS FSM’s on those lists. As I once knew
him, I can tell you his attention is most always on where the money is.
I would guess his main source of income over the recent years is from
donations like these…IAS, Buildings etc. He is highly trained but I doubt
he has any desire to FSM people onto training and processing…..too much
trouble and too much time to receive his 10%/15%.
Yet his name is not on any of these lists…..I guess he sees no need to donate to
the very thing that is making him a decent living.
Sorry I ment to say one of the top WUS FSM’s.
Oh I did say that…..never mind.
Potpie, are you referring to Ty Dillard? I don’t know him personally but have heard from 2 friends (who don’t know each other and live in different countries) that Ty knows exactly what is going on within the church and still continues to reg for the IAS and FSM.
It is one thing to be blinded and drunk on kool aid. But when a person is aware of the atrocities going on within the c of s and continues to milk the public out of money for personal gain, this is just repulsive. Hope OSA reads this and hauls his ass in for some expensive sec checking.
There is another top FSM who was big and made a ton of money and then now you never hear his name at all again. Barry Klein. Remember him? I haven’t heard of him in decades. Is he UTR or out?
Jag, could it be that the little secret here with Ty “Dullard” (sic) is he is making 10% (overts of) commission on his “regging”?
I share your disgust for top FSMs who are well aware of what is happening with the out tech, the alterations and human rights violations and who turn a blind eye to it just to make their money… some names that come to mind: Drew and Dede Johnston, Pat Parodi, David Howsen, Mitch Talevi, et al. I won’t put Daphna Hernandez on the list cuz she is just blind and deaf from all her KA drinking. And Jim Kalergis told the church years ago he had already done the Bridge at least three times over and he refused to pay for it again and was left alone to be “disaffected.” But lately he has come out and started doing his public speaking in the church again, so that tells me he is probably trying to get back on OT VII or VIII. Pity for Jim; he came to his senses and then backslid.
Hi Jag…..I was not referring to Ty Dillard or the other folks
Cindy mentioned.
Michael Phillips used to be a big-wig FSM in WUS. I haven’t seen mention of him anywhere. And, of course, Barry Shereshevsky’s name should be in big print, but I didn’t notice him either. Too bad about Jim Kalergis. He’s got some old friends who are still in (most of those I mentioned in my earlier post). Although he’s also got friends who are out. Perhaps he’ll come back around to seeing what is. I hope so.
How charming: the smaller the donation, the smaller the font.
Where’s Robbie Robinson? Eddie and Liz King? Jim and Barbara Kalergis? Ivy Kimmich? Perhaps their donations were too small to be seen.
Could it be that the people in small print that gave a small amount of money are merely staying under the radar?
Nancy must be PTS if she is afraid to give her whole name. Better route her to ethics… 🙂
Sorry Tony the door to the sec checking chamber is not large enough to enable a mega whale like Nancy Cartwright to get in until she has been flensed of all useful blubber and then we will bring the carcase in and try to extract more from it.
🙂
Not all of these people are being lied to or maybe better said are aware of the lies or help to forward the lies. Helena Kobrin- Vanguard with Honors- first column-is OSA staff or was if she is not longer in.
If these contributions are so worthwhile wouldn’t OSA personnel be higher on the status list?
These people have been and are being lied to, yes. The thing is, quite a few of these lies are more than obvious even to the see-no-evil, hear-no-evil, speak-no-evil “parishoners.” Are these lies seen as mere isolated incidents or are they so pervasive that they must be over looked simply to maintain the fantasy? These people are certain they are fulfilling their destiny to save the world from itself one step/dollar at a time. And don’t forget this Science of Survival dramatization includes rounding up the likes of you and me for permanent isolation. Frankly, their Stockholm Syndrome antics are becoming less and less endearing.
You’re lucky if the Science of Survival dramatization only puts you away for permanent isolation. I’m on the list to be eliminated, quietly and without sorrow.
Move over, Espiando! I’m right there with you! AND, PROUD OF IT! Hey DAVID MISCAVAGE, Espiando and I are still out there exposing your crimes along with all the posters here. You haven’t got a fucking chance! Let’s all google: DAVID MISCAVAGE and see what we get. I know the folks who put flyers all over Pasadena to combat the Idle Morgue there. I’m going to let them know to put the name, DAVID MISCAVAGE on it. And then a link to Wikipedia and Google.
I know at least two of these people who are OUT. Has anyone ever tried to get their names off of these promo lists? I am guessing you have to get declared first?
How much is the price tag for be achieved of these status levels? Thanks.
Probably the most suppressive and criminal lie was given by LRH in order to keep people from immediately bolting when they were pitched the total freedom and the (this life time) promise of immortality & return of native state powers. (which WERE the main drivers of people giving TONS of money to the church)
The lie was this (paraphrased): People will not believe these claims because they have been lied to about just this many times on the track in order to get them to be trapped or scammed. THIS TIME it is true and not a lie. With the TECHNOLOGY I alone have been able to develop, if applied by you, you can get out of the trap. The one and only time.
Complete and premeditated betrayal of trust for wealth and power.
See other comment about subjective versus objective standards.
This could turn into a very lengthy back and forth about the merits of religion and what is right and wrong about them.
I could argue that return of immortality and native state powers is the carrot of virtually every religion and that they ALL claim that THEY ALONE have the path to achieving this. And that the motivation of organized religion — at least the Abrahamic religions — has been wealth and power. From Jews through Christians and Moslems to Mormons and now scientology.
But as interesting as this would be, I don’t have the time to engage in this. I know your position, you have stated it clearly many times. Hopefully you understand mine a little better.
Yet Mike, I would have to say, that with all the fallacious scientism sold to all of us, and Ron himself separating his approach as special and different……..
I find it fascinating that you would choose other religions and faith to justify Scientology.
Somehow it seems a revelation of failure, as far a being different from all the other planet earth implant control mechanisms as Ron told us they where.
Brian: I agree with you. EVERY religion sells itself on the basis of being the ONE TRUE PATH and that they have a different/better answer than the other guys.
I am not trying to justify scientology.
I am trying to explain the PARTS that I am interested in exposing and ending.
I am not an anti-religionist (though I would not proclaim myself to be part of ANY organized religion and never will be, I think ALL organized religion is bad). I am an anti-scientology abuses whistleblower. So, I wish to focus on the abuses of scientology that DIFFERENT than other religions — ie those that are unacceptable in normal society.
Selling people salve for the soul under many guises is not…. Doesnt make it right. Just not what I am trying to accomplish. And I think those that pick scientology beliefs out from others and don’t put them all into the same category are being hypocritical.
Got it Mike, thanks for the reply.
The complexity of the edifice that Hubbard wrought is astounding. In many ways it can defy analysis even when it seems you are thinking about it clearly.
I agree with many points Mike makes. He has gone a long way to tease apart the overlapping layers of what is going on with scientology the organization, the philosophy, the public relations and the intent.
Religion is essentially belief in something, usually not provable. Sometimes it is a way of life for the purpose of improving life.
Scientology’s belief is all about past lives, future lives, levels of training, levels of supposed spiritual gain, the dream of super-human powers and immortality akin to the gods.
What scientology SELLS is hours of auditing and the experiences of absorbing the philosophy from books and materials and becoming proficient with them. Scientology does not sell it’s belief, unless it is like selling the sizzle in a steak commercial. It sells hours and sells training.
It does not sell specific results spiritually. It does not sell healing. Although you could make an argument about NOTS.
Because it sells hours and courses fee-for-service it is a business. Scientology in the U.S. fought to have these payments deemed tax deductible religious ‘donations’ by the IRS. It lost. It went all the way to the Supreme Court. It lost.
Out of it’s belief structure, Scientologists sometimes abuse people. They hold people against their will. They infiltrate Governments. They harass people. They ruin people utterly. These are the outrage they commit on people, actual harm. And that is civil hurt and criminal harm committed in the real world, not just a fantasy belief.
I do think that people have a right to believe and call it a religion. I also think that hurt and harm that springs from those beliefs cannot be tolerated, and those who commit it, no matter how sincere they feel they are about it, must be stopped.
The outrage is what Scientologists DO, not what they believe. To believe an SP should be killed might be an acceptable religious belief. But killing an SP is a crime and the person who does it should be arrested, tried, convicted, sent to prison and if a jury decides it is appropriate, to death.
And when enough such crimes are shown to extend from a body of beliefs and not just the individual insanity of isolated members, then society has a right to proscribe that body of beliefs.
Mike, are there people still in that you know? And, do these people know that Hubbard said if the GI is low, solve with scientology? And the fact he SPECIFICALLY said, “DO NOT SELL POSTCARDS AND DO NOT ENGAGE IN FUNDRAISING? Does Miscavage have some sort of Machiavellian hold on these people?
OSD, I pointed that quote out in an email response to an exec at my former org. His response was that there are other references I didn’t know about which he never provided followed by a diatribe about how I was attacking the church and completely ungrateful after he had “helped” me etc. It was completely insane. So yes, LRH/ DAVID MISCAVAGE do have a Machavellian hold on these people the same as what a lot of us here experience before we finally had enough and left.
Thanks, Jeff! It seems to me that everyone who’s still in is pulling an ostrich: Sticking their heads in the ground so they won’t know anything.
One more thing Jeff: Of course the exec never provided the references you sought. Why? Because THEY DON’T EXIST! DAVID MISCAVAGE’S orders supersede any polices the cult has. How brainwashed do you have to be to swallow this shit?!
Mike, I enjoyed your graphic and quote at the top. This is the type of truth that gives me hope that it will all end with the church’s lies. I do hope soon.
Your statement is so full of heart and care for those (or many of those) still in.
Thank you for what you are doing to help bring an end to the church’s madness.
Sorry, should have added, also spell out bart simpson & bart simpson’s voice as those are also highly searched for terms.
Said with compassion.
I find it to be as you have stated it.
What I would want to add is this:
The lies are CREATED at the very top, i.e. COB, David Miscavige
(as no one else in that group has the power to do so)
From there on down is a very strict COMMAND line that rams those lies down the line as “truths”.
Any disagreement with those “truths” results in instant disciplinary actions (ethics, removal from post, assignment to the RPF, dismissal, SP declare – any of many varieties) so that only those “truths” can survive in that group..
Below COB come those very close or close enough to him to have very tangible evidence that something is in fact a lie. This includes, in the past Marty and yourself, but also those at Gold (it could be the video editor that makes some exploding graph going into nowhere – don’t know whether a “critique” on their editing could be: “that’s a degrade to the expansion occurring, make that graph steeper” (without any actual evidence that the graph should be that way) and many variations of the same tangible evidence).
The strange thing is that EVERY SO member, staff member and even every Scientologist has TANGIBLE evidence that he is being fed lies – what he is being told just doesn’t agree with any reality he sees – and at the same time is compounding the fraud by FORWARDING that “truth” himself.
Why? Because they are afraid, completely lulled into the KoolAid, automatically stopping any critical thinking, ADHS (Awareness Deficient Hallucinating Scientologist) or AIDS (Absolutely Idiotically Donating Scientologist).
What a self-devouring system Scientology has become (or was from the very beginning)!
Eventually the liars will leave that pond of sharks as well – as broken pieces.
The liars not only harm others but ruin their own lives as well.
Is that tragic or their “just reward” or what?
They will need help to find the ground under their feet – but they will get it only after they STOP LYING.
The exact problem is that the “leverage” that Miscavige has over them is the technology which most in the Church still believe can only be obtained from people within the Church. That really is the common denominator that binds the whole thing together. It is not keeping business or family or other connections together that pin them to the Church – the bottom line is that they all want the technology. He can, if he “controls” their information sources (which he mostly has done it seems), then unless they are really, really mistreated to the point that they then actually break the rules and look, they will never find out what is really going on, nor go and get some auditing in the Indie field.
All he had to do to have had a nice life for himself was ensure that Orgs were training auditors and auditing PCs and that the prices allowed that most people could afford to do that. It wasn’t really too hard – it used to be done. Years ago. This blog and others wouldn’t exist now if he had just done that as Martin Padfield implies above (good post that Martin).
But it seems he wanted a fight, which is what he has now got.
Regarding feeling empathy for people who were convinced to donate money against their own best interests, I agree.
The parishioners in the CoS are mostly good people who want to see a better world and believe that the RCS is doing everything it can to accomplish that. They don’t see that the RCS is doing everything it can to get every last penny out of people. The public thinks they are helping mankind.
I’m sure we all know at least one or two public who really didn’t have much to start out with, made a little money through the sale of a business or just some bit of good luck, and then turned around and gave most of it to the church. Now they are in their sixties, with zero money in their bank account, nothing saved for retirement and living hand to mouth. On top of that, they are still in and struggling to pay for GATII or OT levels.
There are some who will say they have no sympathy for people like this but I think that is a lack of understanding of the average mind-set of the modern parishioner. They truly believe that their eternity depends on what they do today, and that includes making donations. The church knows exactly what they are doing to people and their tone level towards their own parishioners is ‘no sympathy’.
To illustrate this, I once witnessed an IAS reg talking to a woman outside the canteen at PAC during lunch break, and she was trying to get the woman to gift her pension plan to the IAS. The woman was obviously not well off, and was a regular student at ASHO (back when they actually had regular students). She also looked to be in her late fifties- early sixties. It was appalling to see. How did this IAS reg think this woman was supposed to live in the near future? She obviously didn’t care an iota about this lady and was telling her, ” I know you’ll do it; you’re such a good person.”
That is disgusting. Do you know how that played out?
Doug,
I do not. However, the woman looked pretty scared and judging by her body language, she wasn’t going for it, no matter how hard the IAS reg was trying to convince her. I hope nothing came out of it.
SOP for this cult. I’m SO not surprised! It has been and always will be about one thing and one thing only: Taking every last dime you have. And Doug, that is truly disgusting!
Pepper,
You duplicated that very well.
In THEIR bubble they’re acting ‘truthfully’.
Greta
Pepper,
I need to add: them acting ‘truthfully’ yet killing any feelings of dissonance, maybe labeling it as
‘case’ or something else that then makes them toe the line, like plain fear.
Greta
Exactly Greta – you duplicated it too!
Good point.
However, the current type of postings also serve a purpose (at least mine 🙂
I really read the postings so I stay “in tough” with the madness that is going on. I have kids (disconnected, of course) that are still trapped in that slave camp and eventually they will also leave (naturally I hope sooner than later). My think is that it will help them if I can talk with some understanding of their current surrounding and not be completely out of touch.
If you think back to when you were totally “in” Scientology. How easy did you feel talking to a stranger about what is really going on in Scientology. The tendency is to withdraw and not to talk if you feel the other person most likely will be shocked or not understand you.
I believe me keeping abreast of the madness helps them, when the time comes, to talk …. find a footing and move on.
At the same time I don’t think Mike objects to publishing such “leave” stories if anyone wishes to do so. And I understand and experienced the same benefits you have described.
Ooops … Comment should have gone under “Anon says”
“But that does not change the fact it is based on lies — and even that is fine if it sticks to “beliefs” for EVERY religion has unprovable beliefs that non-believers can call lies. The issue is when those deliberate and knowing lies result in people being hurt.”
LRH & his “church” have engaged on HUGE lies not about beliefs (but about promised here and now, objective results) for decades in order to fleece hopeful followers of huge sums of money. This has needed to be stopped since its inception. NOT, just because of recent activities.
Well, I think this is an extreme, and unsupportable view.
If scientology were only getting money from people for their “personal salvation” it would put them on a par with christians, jews and virtually every other religion. You may disagree with the very concept of this, and many do. But to claim that scientology’s lies are somehow different because they are “promised, here and now objective results” is somewhat illogical. Other religions promise things in the afterlife and plenty of people hand over in the hope what they say is true. Same thing with scientology. Is it true? It becomes very subjective. Did a christian get a good return on his money?
It’s the crush sell and pretense of “expansion” and “planetary clearing” and “we are spending your money on fourth dynamic salvage campaigns [that dont exist]” that sets scientology apart.
You are entitled to believe that anyone who gives any money at all to any religious organization is being swindled. In which case scientology is no different. But I think there is a distinction to be made about what is right and wrong in the eyes of society.
If scientology required people to tithe 10% of its income in exchange for being allowed to participate in its services, would that be something that had to be stopped too?
No. It is NOT illogical to to think that selling rundowns to cure someone of allergies/asthma. to make them immune from psycho somatic illnesses, bestow higher IQ, longer life, PROMISING being able to stably operate independent of your body (if you only fork over 10’s of thousands of $), is different than what most other religions pitch., It is COMPLETELY supportable by the facts. I’m sorry that you haven’t yet confronted this scam.
Hmmm, I don’t think you know what I have or haven’t confronted.
I agree that promising anything that is not delivered is unacceptable. But is promising to cure allergies really any different than promising a life in the land of milk and virgins or entering the pearly gates of christian heaven? They can NEVER be proven to be promising something they cannot deliver? Is that more or less good? Or bad? Or stupid?
That scientology promises things in the here and now that it doesn’t deliver is less deceptive to me than promising things in the unknowable future. I assume you don’t then object to scientology promising “eternal life” and “breaking the cycle of life and death” and “the answers to life after death”? If so, then you must also object to all other religions.
My view is that everyone has a right to believe as they wish. Nobody is more crazy or less crazy than anyone else in the world of religion. I think giving money or supporting ANY of these things is silly. But that is everyone’s right if they so choose.
And promising things that are EITHER unobtainable or unrealizable is the beat of religion.
So, I am probably not really different than you in my views about whether it is proper or not. But where I do differ is that I try to distinguish between those things that I believe hurt people and that are outside the acceptable norm of society, as I am not on a crusade to try and end organized religion on earth. But to do nothing about what I may disagree with in other religions while targeting scientology for the same sort of behavior would in my mind be hypocritical.
Scientology explicitly is NOT promoted as a faith/belief system but as a a mechanism that works 100% of the time based on methodology to deliver REAL WORLD, OBJECTIVE products.. A methodology that works 100% of the time when practiced correctly.
The difference vs. what/how other religions pitch is SO completely different as to not need further clarification at all.
You KNOW that LRH pitched it thus and was explicit that it was NOT a faith/belief based religious activity. Most scn’ers also know why the religious cloak was donned.
+1 Excellent clarifications Mike, thank you.
Swampland4Sale, I think there is a subtle difference between:
“We will help you rid yourself of BTs, thereby ensuring your personal spiritual salvation”…just give the registrar your $100k “donation”.
and
“Ideal Orgs are THE solution to planetary clearing and the future of your city depends on it. It is your responsibility as a Scnist to make this happen”…just give the Int Landlord your $100k donation.
One could argue both are based on the beliefs of the parishioner. The fact is, neither one of these statements have been objectively proven to be true. However, the first statement is purely subjective in nature, while the second is most decidedly objective.
And because the first statement is subjective it can live firmly in the realm of spiritual beliefs.
But with the second statement, it’s more about belief in the leader or management than it is about spiritual matters. Is the leader or management knowingly telling you something false in order to take your money? Do they have the capacity to actually deliver what they promise? In short, are they deceiving the parishioner? In this respect, this “feels” more like potential fraud, than paying 100k for OT7.
Anyway…that’s my two cents.
Well stated statpush. It was what I was trying to articulate. But I don’t think Swamp is going to get it as it is his (her?) opinion that because scientology claims that it benefits you in the here and now it is somehow NOT an objective test.
Unfortunately, it is not an argument that holds much water. There are plenty of people who will OBJECTIVELY claim they HAVE been “cured of asthma” or their IQ is higher. ANd who is to say they are more or less foolish (or enlightened) than those who say they have cured their drug addiction because they “found the lord” or have achieved happiness because they “know they are going to heaven”?
Subjective matters are not really subject to rational arguments.
No Mike, it is YOU who doesn’t get the difference between and objective and subjective. Anecdotal claims by individuals are NOT relevant.
They are 100% relevant when it comes to belief. And whether scientology says it is or isnt belief is what is irrelevant. It is certainly belief because the ONLY relevant standard for it is subjective. Just like it is for every religion.
Statpush, you didn’t actually READ what I said. I NEVER mentioned subjective items like BTs. I mentioned OBJECTIVE items that would be OBJECTIVELY falsifiable. If a rundown cured allergies that WOULD be scientifically testable. If one could operate with perception independent of a body that would be OBJECTIVELY provable. Please quote where I said anything regarding this about anything subjective like BT’s.
I await your response
NO response will be forthcoming. This back and forth has reached its end. Believe me, there are tens, hundreds or perhaps thousands of people who will tell you they are no longer bothered by allergies or that they have perceptions independent of the body. It’s ENTIRELY subjective. You assert their experience isnt true. Faith Healers and people who Lay On Hands say the same thing. They cure things. And there are people who will attest to the wondrous cure they received. Happens ALL THE TIME. Fake? Lies? Who knows. ONLY the person that received them. Forget scientifically testable. I agree that any claims in dianetics and scientology that results are scientifically testable are outright lies. They clearly are not. And in the realm of religion, they never will be.
Mike wrote:
Purification Rundown: Freedom from the restimulative effects of drug residuals and other toxins.
TRs and Objectives: Oriented in the present time of the physical universe.
Scientology Drug Rundown: Released from the harmful effects of drugs, medicine or alcohol.
ARC Straightwire Expanded: Knows he/she won’t get any worse.
Grade 0 Expanded: Ability to communicate freely with anyone on any subject.
Grade I Expanded: Ability to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish.
Grade II Expanded: Relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life.
Grade III Expanded: Freedom from the upsets of the past and ability to face the future.
Grade IV Expanded: Moving out of fixed conditions into ability to do new things.
Expanded Dianetics: Freedom from cruel impulses and unwanted physical conditions.
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Index_Online_Research_Materials_-_Dianetics_and_Scientology_Lower_Level_Services
Alanzo
Swampland4Sale, for what its worth…here’s how I see things:
First, ALL Scn auditing is purely, solely, completely subjective. Now, I understand what the Bridge states and what the church says; and you’d be correct to assume they are talking about objective results. And many a critic has challenged “Show me a Clear”, and they are correct. Hell, show me a Grade 0 completion? The church can never respond to these challenges, because any good a parishioner experiences via auditing is a subjective result. I think is a BIG mistake to make objective claims, especially when they don’t have to. Silly.
Second, Scn training is objective. To successfully complete a professional Scn course you have demonstrate some type of ability addressed on the course.
Now, anything contained within the written and spoken words that comprise the subject of Scn THAT cannot be proven by standard scientific procedures is, in my opinion, a BELIEF. I don’t care if Scnists yap about “its not about belief, blah, blah, blah” – sorry to say – IT IS. Scn is a belief system, its para-science. Ironically, like it or not, that places it in the religious/spiritual realm, affording it First Amendment protection.
Bottom line, in Scn – nothing is what it seems.
This is all I have to say on the matter. 🙂
Statpush you made a great point regarding the subjective and objective statements above and which one feels more like fraud than the other.
However, in your first statement, you gave the example of a parishioner being openly told that they were paying to get rid of their BT’s and the cost is 100k. Yes, a parishioner at the OT VII level already knows this.
So what do you think about keeping the OT levels secret then? Parishioners are NOT told secret OT data prior to OTIII and they can pay for a whole OT package prior to being duly informed. Do you consider this a form of fraud?
It’s an interesting discussion to me. If anyone else has any thoughts who participated in this discussion I would like to know what you think as well.
Perfect distinction Statpush. I can only say that from my first hand experience of 1000’s of hours in the chair, auditing is extremely personal, intimate, subjective and spiritual.
Pepper, interesting point about the secrecy element. Certainly belief is required for a parishioner to write a big check for something he knows not of? Only a True Believer can do that.
Regarding the secrecy-fraud idea… I think its interesting that as you move up the Bridge the stated EPs get more and more vague. I know the EPs have changed over the years, as new editions of the Bridge have been published, I wonder if there were any legal reasons for doing this. At least with the Lower Bridge the EPs “sound” definitive, almost scientific. But, with the Upper Bridge its all pretty nebulous.
I think it would be difficult proving fraud when the thing promised is so hard to measure or prove. Things like “well and happy”, “ability to confront”, “free from…”. Hard to pin down, certainly in a court of law.
So, do I think the OT Levels are fraudulent? No, I do not. I categorize them as religious/spiritual rituals which involves an element of belief (Scnists hate that word). In this regard, it is not dissimilar to say, a Catholic who goes to church every Sunday for 50 years and donates $20 each mass (totalling $52,000). The Catholic believes he will be rewarded in the afterlife and has secured a position in Heaven. No way to prove that he will or won’t. Is the Catholic Church guilty of fraud? Most would say “No”, and I agree. It’s all above boards. That is not to say they do not have their own secrets and mystery (e.g. Transubstantiation).
Because Scn has yet to produce Clears and OTs with promised abilities (e.g. illness-free, telepathy, cause over MEST, etc), we can conclude that those who continue to practice it BELIEVE it is spiritually beneficial. I think this is why parishioners are so forgiving of the church when they don’t get the expected result. Or how they always find something good about the auditing they have received, no matter how ineffective or detrimental it may have been. Scnist will even admit that by doing as much of the Bridge as possible, they will be in a better condition next lifetime. Sounds awfully similar to “will be rewarded in the afterlife.”
If there is a case for fraud, I would say it lies with the parishioner, deceiving himself into thinking he wasn’t believing.
Thank you for your reply Statpush. I appreciate it.
Personally, I don’t think the OT levels themselves are fraudulent because it is a belief system. It is not factual, we know that. Completely subjective.
I think the thing I have a problem with is whole secrecy thing about the OT levels. I know that LRH wanted them to be secret and why. However, LRH never anticipated the Internet and the age of information, where it would be impossible to maintain secrecy. Especially with the church’s practices of declaring people SP, enforcing disconnection, etc. People are going to talk and some of those people have personally read OT data. There is also the curiosity factor, humans being naturally so.
We are dealing with a religious philosophy here and not the secrets of homeland security. Even those are getting out now too. The church may want to consider an evolution on this because the OT levels are no longer a secret and this cannot be controlled anymore. Don’t know if that will ever happen though.
A public person is informed that the OT data is secret and pays for it willingly without knowing what it is. So legally and I guess morally, it’s not fraud. I understand that. Thanks again.
Swampland4sale, anything in the realm of knowledge is a lie. All religions are lies, all cultures are full of lies. Lies are not good or bad, they are just lies. Anything we can think off is not the truth but a mere more or less distorted reflection of the truth.
The problem is so many people think their brand of lies is the truth and all others are just lies.
Off course Scientology is full of lies, so is any other religion and yet our culture values religions and gives them special privileges like tax exempt status.
Scientology is no different than any other religion. What makes the difference is when people in the name of a religion starts wars, cutting peoples heads of, and being destructive to other peoples lives.
The destructive actions of the CO$ are the issue and they are not perpetrated by a small fraction like in other religions, but by church leadership and organization as a whole.
ISIS gets bombed, not because they claim to be Muslim, but because they are destructive to other peoples lives. Same with Scientology if they would peacefully have discourse with their body thetans and believe that it will bring them total freedom, who cares? Let them be. But if they abuse other people, destroy their lives, send PI’s to harass people, bankrupt families and break them up, that is where one should raise one’s voice.
Some lies are used for destructive purposes that is where the line has to be drawn. Until we have developed as mankind far enough that we have awareness that we are living with lies all the time and nobody mistakes the lies he is living with for the truth. When this happens we might see the beginning of the golden era of tolerance. But obviously we still have some way to go.
Thanks Gerhard. We are on the same page.
Gerhard,
You are very correct. We’re surrounded by lies, big and smaller ones, day in day out. After all,
that is what makes things persist and if it all went away there would be no game.
If you study up on ISIS and its connection with the CIA it gets even more interesting…
Greta
Well said Gerhard. Third dynamics always seem kind of nuts to me and I am used to hearing wildly different reports of the same events. It’s amazing really. Yes, we do have a way to go to begin the age of tolerance, but we’re helping the rcs along. 🙂
“And Bart Simpson is now identified as “Nancy” rather than the Royal Governess OT Rockstar Princess Queen etc etc etc. Apparently it is still embarrassing to include her full name, though I cannot fathom why this is?”
It is because of search engine indexing. There are tons of people (including media types) who have set notifications if the search engines index specific names.
Well, I wonder. Since the search engines don’t search text within promotional pieces like this? But I must remember to spell out her name in the text every time I mention it on the blog though….
Nancy the Royal Governess OT Rockstar Princess Queen is the voice
of BART SIMPSON fame NANCY CARTWRIGHT.
Maybe this might get their attention.
Ya, it doesn’t index words that are really just an image rather than text encoding. Good idea of spelling it out and connecting it (on this blog) with any and all church promo referencing her.
Yeah, I added her full name into the story now 🙂
:o)
Great Mike! I should have mentioned this before but forgot a few weeks ago.
I believe this is an important point.
It is not just Nancy Cartwright’s name that needs to be spelled out, but I think it’s even more important that David Miscavige’s name be spelled out in our comments. Although there is great fun to be had in J&D and coming up with witty, clever variations of his name, or even just referring to him by his initials, I’ve recently come to see that we could be doing ourselves and our cause(s) a great disservice by doing this, as David Miscavige is often bypassed in search engine results when doing a general search.
I don’t suggest we stop having fun, just that somewhere in our comments, we actually write his full name so the public, the media, law enforcement, government officials, but especially disaffected, UTR, or current members can discover the truth about him and the CoS. It would be a shame if all the stories of abuse and fraud committed by the CoS and its leader or if the heart wrenching experiences of former members, as written in blog posts, forum threads, or comments remained buried because of a simple omission of the name of those who prefer to remain nameless and blameless.
For anyone else who has spent years searching for background info or stories of atrocities committed by David Miscavige et al, or even find Google images of him from his Philly years or from those years when he rose to power within the rank, it is exceedingly frustrating, sometimes hopeless, to dig through hundreds of page results which bring up mainly PR stories and photos of him. (Thank goodness for the shoopers, as some of those images do surface!)
Even as recently as this week, although I knew I had read a few new stories or important recent comments about David Miscavige, if I didn’t happen to bookmark pages promptly or emptied out my cache, it became difficult, sometime impossible, to retrieve the information by simply searching with the general terms “David Miscavige and Scientology” – terms which I’m sure many disaffected or UTR members and potential new recruits would be apt to use.
Of course, I could be wrong about this. I’m just a user of internet “tech” and not an expert. Just my 2 cents, FWIW.
Nancy Cartwright aka the voice of Bart Simpson, owned and operated by David Miscavage under the auspices of the Church of Scientology aka THE CULT.
More commonly known as lying, cheating, stealing asswipes cleverly disguised as promoters of human rights and other things that seem good but are in reality, rotten to the frickin core and would sell you, your kids and anyone else they could coerce into slavery and domination by a freak of nature.
You have a way with words Cooper. Wish I could write like you. 🙂
This is for Cars. I agree 100%! We definitely should be using their FULL NAMES. I’m so glad you brought it up, Cars! From now on I, when speaking of him, I will refer to him as DAVID MISCAVAGE (always in bold too). You made a terrific point, Cars! Thanks for that!
CoS, deleta est. David Miscavige must be dethroned.
Great! Maybe that way we can smoke out the coward, David Miscavige, and get that rodent to the top of the heap in plain view. Hee, hee.
CAPTAIN David Miscavige – to reinforce the position he has within the Sea Org that makes him he undisputed decision maker within Scientology.
I wonder if Ms Cartwright exists in some state of tension between her ‘church’ and her bosses? I posted this comment at the Bunker on Sunday:
According to the Daily Mail, about 5 years ago she used her ‘Bart’ voice for a CoS promo and got some heat for it from the studio execs. Maybe she had to make some concessions then…?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new…
There could be pressure on both sides; what is her First Amendment Right and what does her employer own of her public identity, the characteristics of ‘Bart’, the products of her body (i.e. her voice) outside the scope of her employment, etc etc. Kind of fascinating to think about…
That’s one of the misconceptions that people outside the USA have about the Firat Amendment: there’s only protection from governmental intervention impairing ones’ free speech, what happens between an employer-employee is a different matter.
As an entertainer, there is probably some sort of clause in her contract that it can be dissolved if she does something to bring “The Simpsons” into disrepute, which, short of waking up with a dead body in ones’ bed, would be hard to do, in the course of ordinary events.
But when she did her character, which doesn’t belong to her, but to her employer, promoting Scientology, she really crossed a red line. If it were Bart Simpson saying Catholic Charities were a great thing, that would be one thing, and then, the concern would be about favoring one mainstream Christian denomination over another. But to associate Bart with CoS, and to do so without running it by said employers(who would’ve said no, of course) they couldn’t let her skate on that.
Dark Avenger: thank you for your comments. To clarify, when I referred to the First Amendment, I was thinking of her right and freedom to practice her religion…and the tension therein…using her commercial character to support her religious ‘congregation’.
Personally, it was the habitual lying that end my association with the church. Once you become aware of this practice you begin to question EVERYTHING they say. And upon closer inspection, you will discover the vast majority of what the church says are outright, blatant LIES.
Hell, they will lie when they don’t have to, that is how bad it has gotten. This is a cultural practice that is no longer a conscious action. Anything and everything must be altered and embellished to make it bigger, better, more awesome, that it no longer bears any resemblance to reality.
Now, you make think that I am embellishing this – see for yourself. Take any PR statement made by the church or told to you by your friendly local MAA or DSA and attempt to verify it. Chances are you will not be able to independently verify the data, or if you do you will find that what really happened is not what was claimed.
This is a group that is in hype-overdrive. Their reality HAS to be turned up to 11, anything less will not do. Scn MUST MUST MUST be the most awesome, most incredible, most supercalifragilisticexpialidocious thing on the planet.
Phew! That shit just wears me out 🙂
Yes, Statpush, along those lines, I found it interesting that when I was about to be declared my son and some friends wanted to make sure I didn’t tell other relatives or “WOGS” as they might get the wrong idea. If declaring and exposing SP’s was so great, wouldn’t you think society at large would understand that?
Go quietly, and we won’t make a fuss.
Right Statpush. And for an activity where the only and primary goal us SUPPOSED to be as-isness, the never ending lying is especially ironic and bizarre.
Nothing is what it seems, Hallie 🙂
Credit goes to the Bunkerites for this parody of “I’m A Little Teapot”.
WHALES:.
We’re the Koolaid-drinking
Clams with Clout,
We’re into Status
Never a doubt.
When they start to fundraise
Hear us shout,
“Take our wallets, and clear them out”.
WHALES TO NON-WHALES
Now its time for you to walk this route,
No more excuses, stop with the pout.
Give us all your money, you dumb lout
Up your status or just get out.
I think it’d be cool for the Governor to lead the singing dressed in that number which looks like she’s channeling her inner Julie Andrews in “The Sound Of Music”.
I have been trying to express my comment for a while, but is hard to find words to describe the monumental betrayal this so called ‘religious practice’ has been involved into since many, many years ago. To abuse individuals’ dreams, hopes, their willingness to help, to get better, is monumental. It is much more worse than just ripping people off millions which, at the end, will be useless as the ‘leader’ will have to keep on hiding as time goes on.
So, suffice it today that yes, this criminal activities have to cease one way or another. It is already imploding and it will destroy from inside and whatever each one of us can do to end it conveys conscience and care for others. By a simple comment on this blog and by whatever other means each one capable of, we will keep exposing the abuses until their sources just crumble.
To greater or lesser degree we were involved in it and, somehow, we have to keep at it until it ends, and it will.
Amen.
Well expressed Sylvia.
Mike – you hit the nail on the head. I’m sure each of these people have been convinced that donating to the Valley Org is somehow going to have a HUGE impact on the quality of life for the peoples of earth – and beyond including this and other universes.
The facts tell quite the different story.
Although there is some very valuable technology contained within Scientology, like every other decision in a person’s life, they weigh the good with the bad.
The church of Scientology is now so inundated with the bad, that the general population stays away in droves. Even when I was on OT7 & 8, I was very aware that exaggeration and lies were the order of the day. At the time, I considered the good outweighed the bad.
I had been in SCN for about 40 years and only had to disconnect from a couple of friends. I didn’t like doing it, but I chose to live with it.
A couple of years ago the gradient was upped considerably: I had to choose between my step-son and my step-daugher and consequently her autistic daughter. I’ve told this story to many non-SCN and they all agree immediately that ANY organization that would insist on such a choice is INSANE.
Fortunately for me, none of my blood relatives ever became SCN, so I didn’t lose any of them. The older I get, the more I realize the importance of family. Like my brother stated so clearly, “I take exception to ANY organization that breaks up families.”
Beside the ridiculous pressure exerted on these people to keep “upping their status” by going into debt, or whatever it takes to “make it go right”, the fact this “church” willfully insists that family members shun each other puts them in an extreme minority of religious zealots that will NEVER ACHIEVE MAJOR ACCEPTANCE in a world where democracy thrives and the internet is not censored.
Unfortunately these people are fed so many lies, exaggerations and half-truths, that the policy of disconnection is unlikely to cease. Miscavige can not afford to allow parishioners to read the internet.
It must be patently obvious to parishioners throughout that their org is not expanding at a rate anywhere resembling the outrageous like of 47x expansion since Nov, 2013. They can only scratch their collective heads and wonder where the hell that figure came from.
The other major item that tipped the scale south for me was attempted control by 20 year old ethics officers. When my declare was imminent, one of my best friends, a person I’ve known for more than 50 years and the one that got me into SCN gave me his recommendation: Go in there and kiss every ass in the org to prevent your declare.
Now, if that doesn’t sound like the road to freedom I don’t know what does.
The Church of Fear.
The “Church of We Don’t a Give a Fuck What You Think.”
Yep, We believe in instilling Fear first, then:
we like to remain in the forefront of:
“The “Church of We Don’t a Give a Fuck What You Think.”
followed by:
Never did, never will and BTW, wanna make a donation to a really cool disfunctional group of shitforbrains cult members that will turn well meaning folks into criminals and sociopaths? We are here for you. Contact David Miscavage or Nancy Cartwright to give a gift that keeps on fucking up the lives of others.
Well said Shel and a great pic with the little one.
Bravo Sheldon.
“If people want to donate, nobody is forcing them”
I have heard that argument many times from those who proudly pretend that it is easy to say “no”to a reg cycle.
Never mind that their finances are in shambles from all the donations they have made in the past , they are prospects no more…
And if they truely disapprove of the Ideal org fundraising, they do not ask themselves why they disagree, why it seems “off”.
On the disconnection thing, my husband step father passed away this week.His mother is still with us and I will have a little celebration of his life at our house.
There will be none of the close family and scientology friends who shared in his life, many Thanksgivings and Christmases at the same house.
Proving a point , self righteousness , punishment of the heretics who broke the rules , have become more important than tradition , respect , love and support.
My husband ‘ s sister has been allowed to see to the bureacratic details with her brother and is also ,apparently, allowed to attend the celebration.
The women is 66 years old and got a green pass for the few days with her brother.
So Sheldon , I ‘ll repeat what you said…Freedom??
But of course they do not see it that way , they have their marching orders supported by the o/w theory.
What a mess!
Sheldon, all the good there is in Scientology could be compared to a starter pack. You hook it up to your car and get the engine turning. Now would be the time to disconnect the cables, close the hood and start driving.
But you are told the starter pack is a bridge that gets you where you want to be. Scientologists are so convinced they sit the next decades at the side of the road hooked up to the starter pack. They become a sitting target for street bandits, coyotes and super-sized mosquitoes. One day they had one coyote biting too hard and the street bandits treatment being super rough and they say, “That is it”. They disconnect the cables of this wonderful starter pack, put it in the trunk (one never knows what it could be good for) close the hood and start driving. The net “good” was they lost decades of their life, still carry the marks of the coyote bites, the street bandits took all your money and these darn mosquito bites are still itching.
And yes the starter pack works, for about 10 seconds when it gets the engine going. But after that it is useless despite what they have been told. They are better of getting behind the wheel and find their own path, discovering the world on their own terms.
“…all the good there is in Scientology could be compared to a starter pack.” Perfect, Gerhard.
I told my son before he disconnected from me that the best he’s going to get from scientology, he’s already gotten. The comparison of family to the church is … well, there is no comparison. My son forfeited the best there is in life to the worst there is in life. Okay, there’s a comparison.
There will be fleece in the valley…
Mike: Is that “storm on the horizon” something specific and ominous or just more of the same downward trend?
Mike – your most important post to date, IMHO. This may just be “the calm before the storm” [intriguing] but THIS is why most of us still spend time and occasional resources on getting the truth out. It’s ALL about ending the abuses. If the CofS model miraculously transformed into a Drior-style service outfit overnight, we would all pack up and go home – even Anonymous probably.
“…These people are being lied to.”
THIS is why we speak to the press, why a group of us will there to greet IAS attendees in East Grinstead on Friday with truthful messages (all are welcome btw); why some of us try to hold Scientology to account with official and legal authorities etc.
I had a meeting with two new local “SPs” who can’t yet go public a couple of weeks ago. Their stories were as horrific as ever, including a story of a PUBLIC who was coerced to have an abortion. Nothing has changed or will change until the cult closes its doors.
When I first left for good in 2009 I initially had the idea that local public would wake up quickly, maybe even show me a little gratitude – and a few did. Then it was pointed out to me that actually most will probably blame me for, in part, bringing down their Church. At first I was a little miffed about that till I realised that at long as I had helped them get their freedom it really didn’t matter. The dog that is rescued off the street may snarl and bite as it gets put into incubation, but eventually it will have a new family home, a happy life.
So I applaud your efforts and support 100% “…this scam must be stopped as it is hurting people”. Enough said.
Thank you Martin. You are a stalwart.
Amen, again.
Thank you Martin.
Yes Martin, thank you.
I also know a public who was heavily influenced into having an abortion she didn’t want to have. All because she was on staff and having a baby would have been “a distraction” and would have taken her off her post. I was so frustrated that she let people talk her into it, while she was talking to me at the same time, and I was supporting her desire (and right) to have the baby. Even worse, she was 40 years old and had gotten pregnant after ten years of not using birth control. She only stayed on staff for about two years and never got pregnant again. There is no way those two years on staff was worth not having another child to her.
🙁
Pepper, I can feel the pain! Family is at least 47x more important than this third dynamic. A simple smile or hug from your child can make you f/n. No need to hold any cans or do a course on how to have a successful family.
What a ridiculous and terrible situation for this poor woman. When I was on staff the wives and girlfriends went off and had their children with no problems at all, the staff had to cope and organize. And many of the children of then are now staff and public and so the irony is that these children from 20 to 30 years ago are probably the only “new” public that the Church get these days. Short term think there it seems. How times have changed.
What I find even more ridiculous is that these Orgs are producing NOTHING and yet they cling on to staff as if the world will end if they leave or even have a LOA. There is an unwritten and verbal order about this I am fairly sure, as with Moonlighting and a few other things as well. I think it started around 1982, 83. All this pressure and bullying and yet they have had struggling empty Orgs for 25-30 years. All this shit and it is to no avail – if the abuse had actually “worked” and Orgs were roaring along then “management” could at least say that that would be a (horrible) justification for it – but it hasn’t made one iota of difference. The stats generally are far worse than what they were 30 years ago. All this abuse for staff and public and the stats are crashed long term and the Orgs are barely surviving. So why do they do it? It defies reason.
Foolproof –
You made a great point here but the woman in question’s mind-set was ultimately that she had to do everything possible “to participate.” She had been indoctrinated on New OT 8, while on the Freewinds that she must become a worker bee for the church and her husband unfortunately felt the same way. The church ‘assisted’ as well. She struggled deeply with her decision, which she had every right to make. Sadly, the church won.
I saw a few of my friends who came off the Ship after New OT 8 (after Miscavige tweaked it in the late 90’s), with a whole new ‘personality’. It was a little scary to me. I knew some of these people for over 15 years and could see a definite change in them. After time, this wore off in some and not so much in others. They are all still in and redoing the bottom of The Bridge as New OT8’s.
Pepper, of course the “OTVIII” they do on the ship is not the original one from LRH, one HCOB of which was dated 1969. I am told what they do now is akin to a little polish up much like the Sunshine Rundown does for Clears, and that the original OTVIII is not part of the “new” OTVIII. The process in itself is OK from what I have seen of it I believe, but it is about 5% of the original one, if that. Which explains why people do it in only a couple of weeks contrary to LRH’s From Clear to Eternity ED, which is one of the biggest Not-Ises in Scientology as LRH spells it out in that ED how long the upper levels should be taking.
And some OTVIIIs follow COB’s orders and are made to feel guilty that they are not contributing (to smashing Orgs further), and some don’t follow the party line, but I think that is more down to their training than anything else. If I had that “OTVIII” I would demand a refund never mind wanting to put my back to the IAS and Idle Orgs treadmills.
When you stop taking the words of LRH literally, things will become a lot easier for you. You do know there was ALSO a 1978 LRH ED that said Super Power would be available at the St Hills in 6 weeks as an alternate route to Power don’t you? And one from 1967 that said OT III can kill you if you find out about it without being prepared by doing everything beforehand?
But I wonder about the “original OT VIII from LRH” and what you know about it and where it is to be found (other than simply “it exists because LRH said it does”)? This is the level that is supposed to cure amnesia on the Whole Track and I would love to know how this was supposed to be achieved.
The incongruity between the “short” OT VIII and what LRH says in Clear to Eternity about the levels of case gain is hardly one of the biggest inconsistencies in scientology… And even if so, it only affects a tiny percentage of people who make it to that level.
Your comments Mike are somewhat condescending and patronizing. I have noticed that you and Marty have a thing about OTVIII and its origin/veracity or whatever, for whatever reason you have, and attempt to shoot down anyone with an opinion or other belief on it than you (and Marty) have. Yet there is a 1969 bulletin designated “OTVIII” that has been freely available in the field for decades as just one (actually minor) example.Interestingly some of my information comes ironically from ESMB from conversations there about Greg Wilhere, DM and Mithoff about the composition of OTIX. But not only that I have spoken with other people who have seen the notes file from LRH and knew where it was stored etc. and such is also conversed about on ESMB, again ironically enough. Broeker will know about it of course but he has not actually disappeared but “withdrawn” himself from the arena so to speak.
And actually just because you say that this is “hardly one of the biggest inconsistencies in Scientology” does not mean that it is. I would say that this is one of the most important facts in Scientology history, that and the finding out of the true data on this. In fact I fail to see how you can just brush this off unless you have some sort of fixed idea on it based on DM sending Marty off on a wild goose chase to find the materials from Broeker.
And “Super Power” as an alternative route to Power, well, I don’t recall that LRH ED and I have read them all but many things have been chopped and changed, as was the Grade Chart turned upside down with the Grades before Dianetics in 1980 but I don’t see that bringing that up about Super Power (if it is true) has any bearing on what LRH said in From Clear To Eternity.
Well, sorry you feel that way. It is frustrating to me to constantly try to set the record straight with people that claim to “know” about things and selectively “quote LRH” to prove they are somehow informed or right.
As I have explained many times in the past, I too was directly involved with the attempts to recover the mythical “unpublished materials” from Pat Broeker, spending the night in a truck with a few armed PI’s, night vision goggles and crow bars to “recover” the non-existent “future OT levels.” They do not exist.
Are you referring to the 69 HCOB, Drugs and “Insanity”, Non-Compliance and Alter-is? That’s the only reference I know about OT VIII from 1969? Or did you mean the PL OT Orgs which talks about reviving the dead by restoring their failed purposes and how it comes out of OT VIII research?
I also had to review all the notes, transcripts, CSWs and dictation on the compilation of NOTs as part of the Mayo legal case — as one of the few people in OSA who was high enough on the grade chart to be able to read all of it. I am intimately familiar with the development of NOTs and the creation of the HCOBs.
I assume you took it to be condescending to ask what OT VIII materials you were referring to as the “original” ones. I was genuinely asking. And would like to read the material.
I was also present during numerous discussions with Ray Mithoff about “where is OT IX and X”.
It’s funny how the people that WERE actually there (Marty and me) are dismissed in favor of “discussions on ESMB”….
If you cannot recall the LRH ED, I have pulled the quote for you here. It is LRHED 301 RJ 30 1978 — The Year Of Lightning Fast New Tech:
2. SUPER POWER. A super fantastic, but confidential series of rundowns that can be done on anyone whether Dianetic Clear or not that puts the person into fantastic shape unleashing the super power of a thetan. This is the means that puts Scientologists into a new realm of ability enabling them to create the New World. It puts world Clearing within reach in the future. This is a parallel rundown to Power in Saint Hills which is taken by the Dianetic Clear. It consists of 12 separate high power rundowns which are brand new and enter realms of the tech never before approached. Power is still very much in use on the Grade Chart but is for those who didn’t go Clear on Dianetics. Super Power will be delivered at Saint Hills within the next 6 weeks as we are right now super grooming the Super Power auditors in a special international course. It will be delivered in almost all languages.
The New World Corps is being formed and trained this very minute, candidates for which must be Class IV, OT IIIs. Orgs were once promised Power for their staffs.
If org staff are very, very good and get on policy and everything. they will one day look up and see a New World Corps team move in on them, and then…. New World Corps mean just that!
And BTW — Pat Broeker knows very little about “technical research.” He spent most of his time buying horses and llamas and pretending to be a superspy. He was NOT the person LRH entrusted with the tech into the future. THAT was most definitely Snr CS Int. David Mayo. And then Ray Mithoff. Ray Mithoff was brought to the ranch with LRH before he died. Broeker wasnt there. Nor was Miscavige or anyone else. Just Annie, Sarge and Gene Denk. Sarge is the only one who is still alive. If you are interested in the facts, read his accounts of the last days. They are on Marty’s blog and in Lawrence Wright’s book.
Wow. Okay.
I just wanted to make a point that OT8’s are indoctrinated on the Freewinds that they have to come back and become worker drones for the church. This is the work of David Miscavige. Every single person I know who finished New OT8 in the early-mid 2000’s came back with this whole “participation” hypnotic command and I noticed a change in them. As I said, this wore off quickly on some but not on others.
Foolproof, I have to disagree with you on the training level of the individual having to do with their being still in and to what degree. The woman in question is trained to Class VIII. I have friends who are highly trained, public Class VIII’s or higher (being exSO) and they are very much in and toeing the party line. It’s a bit of a generality to say that because one is ‘trained’ they would definitely out of the church today. Public who are in consider it their religion. I think that’s a whole other topic which might be interesting to discuss one day though.
Okey dokey, no I’m fine Mike don’t worry – I’m not the ARCXey type – ha! (Thank you for being polite though.)
Firstly the Super Power thing. if you read the quote from LRH he does not say that Super Power is an alternative route to the original Power (processes etc.) It is something that a Dianetic Clear can do but Superpower as a set of processes are nothing to do with Power as processes, although of course the results may be similar.It was your use of the word “alternative” that I had not come across and I had somewhat misconstrued. But that is not a big deal and I suppose “parallel” (for Dianetic Clears) could also be taken for “alternative”. My dub in there then. But saying that I do not see how this datum about Super Power’s release could be taken to prove I think your implied point here that because LRH said that (and that Super Power was not released until 2013), might mean that other statements of his are false or did not transpire as stated. I cannot see that if LRH states in 1978 that the OT Levels above VII really add on the time that completing “New OTVIII” on Freewinds in a couple of weeks is plausible and most of that time is spent having sec checks anyway. The LRH statement is “Now when we get to band six, get ready for a long haul. It won’t happen in a minute.” and “The higher the level, the longer the time – because one is handling a higher band of potential gain.” and he mentions how long approximately it takes for the previous levels and it is not a couple of weeks either. So there is a simple and straightforward discrepancy here and I am surprised that people have not noticed this – it is staring one in the face if you compare the data.
As to the “original” OTVIII HCOB – one of the (original) OTVIII bulletins (I don’t know if there are more) is dated 1st October 1969 and without revealing more here on an open forum I think if you ask nearly all of the auditors (that have been out for some time) that you will know in the field they will have a copy of it. The starting words of the title is “Why Thetans…” How and exactly when it came out i.e. “liberated” is unknown to me but it was sometime in the early 1980s I believe. I read it in the late 1980s. I am somewhat surprised that you do not know or have heard of this 1969 original HCOB as it has been “floating around” for decades. If you read it you will see straight away that it is an LRH HCOB, it is not like the silly other version of “OTVIII” about Jesus being this and that and the Pre-OT “spontaneously combusting” if he gets it all wrong and LRH coming back as a political figure etc. – and that some fools still natter about on ESMB. This bogus version written by some idiot I read and scoffed at and rejected straight away as did everyone else I knew. There is another squirrel version floating about as well which had believe it or not “Handbook for Preclears” as the first part and then some processes from COHA (which would be “better”), but now we are getting really daft (no, saying that the Jesus version was far more daft). That Jesus version is a complete red herring. If you read the original HCOB of 1969 you will see straight away I believe that that technology would go a long way to “resolving amnesia on the whole track”.
As to Broeker, no I know that he was not entrusted to carry on LRH’s technical hat, but I was only talking about his possession of the LRH notes on the OT levels above VII which LRH mentions many times in many HCOBs and LRH EDs and people I know who have actually seen the file and others, from internet conversations who have also reported on this. Broeker not being there at LRH’s death would have nothing to do with his possession (or not) of these notes – I don’t think LRH would have been clutching the notes to his breast and passing it on to his chosen technical successor at the moment of his death. (Sorry if that sounds sarcastic, I don’t mean it to be – I am just explaining my point here.) I will try and dig the story out about Broeker and send it on. It involves Annie as well. I think Dan Koon may also have been involved or at least know of the scene, so you can ask him, but as I say I will try and dig out the conversation)(s) I read, which seemed pretty bona fide (and I am not daft – well, hopefully not – ha!).
“Informed” on this scene I am not, but this scene is one still surrounded in mystery with conflicting reports and I (and many others I know) am/are trying to resolve the conflicting reports on this. I bow (and indeed deeply) to your and Marty’s experiences and being there but there are contrary data here – LRH states that the OT Levels exist and others have seen and know of the file and of course we also have the “old” OT Levels of 4,5,6 and 7 released and being delivered before 1984 or so which can be added to the equation as well (in fact Flag were still delivering these in the 1980s despite the new Grade Chart). But you are saying these levels don’t exist, but this is primarily based on you and Marty not recovering them from Broeker, which doesn’t really prove any point. And I would never assume that “discussions on ESMB” take precedence over your knowledge of that scene. (The reports were just posted on ESMB as I recall, other people’s opinions on ESMB are neither here nor there.) But there are discrepancies in this whole scene based on what I or rather LRH states as I mention above.
I hope I have expressed myself better than what I originally did on this.
Thanks also for being polite and genuine in your comment.
I am not going to address each point, I simply don’t have the time. If you can send me this 1969 HCOB (I am not familiar with it) I would appreciate it. You can simply click on the “Contact Me” button on the website.
As for all else, I can sum up the simplicity of this in my estimation.
It doesnt matter whether what LRH said about further OT levels is true or untrue. If they existed or they didn’t, in note form or otherwise.
They do not exist in the physical universe. Not inside the church nor outside. And based on the evidence after nearly 30 years since Hubbard’s death, they never will be.
One way to look at it is that the incomplete work of LRH is never to be completed. He has not come back to turn his notes into reality. He didnt leave instructions on what was to happen after his death. A lot of loose ends were left dangling — this being perhaps the one that fixates scientologists more than anything. That is simply reality. Nothing you or I or anyone else can do to change it.
The Holy Grail of scientology — the 15 OT Levels beyond OT VIII — are the Loch Ness or the Yeti monster. Never been seen by anyone, but there are still those that obsess over them, believing they must be true and they will keep searching for them. But in this case, they are not a mythical monster but a mythical promise of happiness/eternity. Far more alluring and far more desirable. And thus a lot harder to let go of, or ignore.
Just observe the obvious.
Reply to Pepper’s comments above: As to my comments about training and people still being in, what I meant was more on the lines of “depending on their training” rather than just the fact of their being trained. I know so-called “Class VIIIs” who are the biggest squirrels going so I didn’t quite mean what you thought I meant, or rather I didn’t express myself properly or clearly enough, and I don’t think I am doing so now either and am somewhat struggling here to get over my message – ha! But what I could say here is that anyone still in and toeing the party line must have something awry with their training and, ironically enough re Super Power above, the inability to hold a position in space and also not see that what is going on is squirrel in the Ethics, Tech and Admin areas. Something like that is what I meant. I am not so dogmatic as you perhaps you think I am or rather as came over from my statements, or I am trying not to be anyway! It is and would be a generality to state that because of their training they would be out of the Church – there are many other factors involved. I think I was lumping all of the other factors under the word “training”.
I would hazard a good guess I think here and say that DM has them in a locked bank vault somewhere and/or Broeker has done the same thing (if he was wise), with at least a copy of them, although I read that because Broeker was digging up potatoes in his garden DM’s PIs became interested in that (as a possible “location” for them) – ha! All this is on the net somewhere.
Has it ever occurred to you that you and Marty were sent off on a wild goose chase after Broeker (and the materials) and DM had the materials already? I don’t know Broeker’s full story on how he left (which you will do) but I cannot see DM letting him leave the buildings without handing over that stuff.
Basically Mike you are saying that we shouldn’t take LRH’s word for this. People have seen and know of the file. In my opinion and from the data I have read, the materials in the file are somewhere – they would not have been thrown away.
Well, as I have said to many people before you, you are entitled to your opinion and guesses. Give me a shout when you locate the Holy Grail. I will be the first to congratulate you.
The “people” who have “seen and know of the file” are probably the same people who have “seen” Nessie.
It never ceases to make me scratch my head how even though you are outside the constrictions of the church, you continue to believe that every word of LRH was true. But I am not going to waste my time getting into that with you. Go on believing that because he said there were 15 OT levels above OT VIII that there MUST be. And do you believe he was NOT married to Sara Northrup? He SAID he wasn’t? Or that Alexis was not his daughter? He SAID she wasn’t?
Thank you Foolproof. I understand what you mean and I know that it is hard to get fine tuned meanings across in writing here. It certainly is for me anyway, since writing is not my strong suit and can be quite a challenge.
Not sure how you catch CoS in a lie so egregious the authorities will take interest, let alone legal action. Fools are separated from their scratch by shady characters every day. By far and away, most of the time it is not illegal. The SEC has rules which Madoff flouted. Madoff was subject to audit and examination. Scientology operates with the safety net of “religious” protection. No auditors, no federal examiners. Until the “religious” veneer is broken, it’s going to be very difficult to stop the money flow. If it was only a laughable self-help system that charged fees for classes, more power to those willing to pay up.
Somehow, the backbone of Scientology – it’s religious protection, must be broken. If not, we will have to wait out its slow agonizing death dance. One thing is for certain, there appears to be no heir apparent.
“there appears to be no heir apparent.”
Who do we thank for that?
He probably thinks he’ll live forever as the OT of OTs. And, he’s the biggest scumbag of all. Karma should be kicking in on him very, very soon…
I guess it’ll be up to the lawyers or the Board. Too bad they haven’t gotten rid of him before now.
But if they put in someone like Jenny Linson, well, then what’s the difference.
Anyone close to the seat of power in Scientology has to know how stressful that job would be and what a train wreck he has made of the movement. So even if anyone is qualified who has not already been declared or left, I doubt that he or she would want the job.
I agree whostolemycog….I bet Reed Slatkin had wished he could have figured
out a way to perpetrate his fraud under church religious protection. Aside from
making himself “wealthy”, he was preying on Scientologist (who were just as greedy
as him) with the church’s blessing…..invest with me, make big bucks so as to buy “services”
and donate to the church’s worthy causes….IAS.
And then when it all hit the fan, all of the poor (greedy) Scientologist who were scammed and who lost
their money screamed bloody murder……..Slatkin the SP yada yada.
Who knows how much money the COS made off of Slatkin’s scam….I’m sure plenty.
The church then took “decisive” action to declare Slatkin and sooth the pain of their
poor parishioners from the “criminal” actions of Slatkin who dared to bilk their flock of money.
I agree, whostolemycog, the “religious” veneer needs to be broken. I encourage anyone who has any kind of a story of 501c3 violation to write the IRS Tax Exempt Division and their Congressman and senior Senator. It may make a difference. You never can tell.
I was at a meeting of volunteers for All Children’s Hospital and the head of this group made it a POINT to tell the volunteers that as a 501c3, ANY money donated by anyone HAS TO GO TOWARD WHAT THE PERSON THAT DONATES IS TOLD. The c of s violates this routinely.
I notice Grant Cardone. Impossible to have sympathy for him. He deserves to be fleeced.
Too bad the money won’t go back to his victims.
Scumbag Meritorious Humanitarian with High Honors. He epitomizes what scientology is. What a douche bag! This cult simply reeks…
“Just like Madoff and other rip off schemes, this scam must be stopped as it is hurting people. It’s just harder to accomplish because it hides behind the cynical shield of “protected religious belief and practice.”
Well said Mike. These criminals must be exposed for who they are. Quinn and cohorts ….. we’re coming for ya buddy.
Sometimes it takes an expensive lesson to teach. As awful as this whole scam is, I’m having difficulty mustering up a lot of sympathy for any of these “most ethical people on the planet”, these “clears” and “OTs”.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
I know why you would feel that way, wm. Of course it’s as awful as awful gets. Maybe even more so. However, I do feel for those who feel trapped in the evil system. I know they made their own beds that they have to sleep in, but, my thoughts are with them. You and I both know that this cult has a very effective way of brainwashing members and staff. As well as ‘thought-stopping’ procedures. I guess I was fortunate as I got out in ’82 and never looked back. I hope these folks find their way home…
“You’re a good man, Charlie Brown.”
You know, I was thinking about tempering that comment to accommodate victimization, brainwashing, blackmail by disconnection and the range of other qualifyers ( as valid as they may be). But the more I thought about it, I decided, no. They have a brain. They claim to be uber intelligent. They may merit some sympathy when they quit, but until then they can find it between sh!t and syphilis in one of Hubbard’s dictionaries.
Maybe I’m just cranky today.
Thanks, McCarran! If I was still trapped in this insidious cult, I would want people on the outside rooting for me to leave. It’s almost too sad when I think about what happens in this cult.
” You know, I was thinking about tempering that comment to accommodate victimization, brainwashing, blackmail by disconnection and the range of other qualifyers ( as valid as they may be). But the more I thought about it, I decided, no. They have a brain. They claim to be uber intelligent. They may merit some sympathy when they quit, but until then they can find it between sh!t and syphilis in one of Hubbard’s dictionaries.
Maybe I’m just cranky today.”
W Martin: IMHO you have made a very sane statement. I hope no one is ever reasonable with me about my totally stupid behavior while a member of that cult. My father always shook his head in disbelief at my naivete when it came to my providing rational explanations for outrageous behavior on the part of cult members. When I finally snapped out of it my Mom said it most appropriately:
“WELL IT’S ABOUT TIME!” Then she smiled and gave me a hug. So I agree with your approach to a tee.
BTW, she was a school teacher and at 93, kids still come up to her in the store and say “Hi Mrs. Kessel ! Remember me? I’m ________!!” Another interesting anecdote; Mom was one of the first 70 women who joined the Waves in WW II where she went on to teach sailors Celestial Navigation and later how to fly instruments in the old “Link Trainers’ of Navy fame. She maintained written contact with Haley (SO staff at CMO-IXU in the HGB Building) until a couple years ago when she began to encourage Haley to think for herself and consider doing something with her future that would allow her to use her creativity. Well you can be sure the seniors reading those letters slammed in the ‘undue influence routine’ and that was that. Of course it didn’t help that her son was a full blown SP and all.
Yo Dave,
My mom at 93 years old would be happy to have a conversation with you anytime, anyplace but if she had a choice it would be on national television say with Anderson Cooper. Just say the word good buddy. Oh yes, she says to bring along your slave ……….. her Granddaughter, Haley Kessel, because she would like to give her a hug and say hi ………….. you know, if you can fit it into your tight schedule. As for me, yes I’ll be there too but only to kick your frickin ass if you don’t mind your manners. I know, I know, you having manners is the oxymoron of all oxymorons for the chief moron of all.
I’m done for awhile.
WM, It takes as long as it takes. You can keep suggesting, but you can’t force a cog.
We all had our cog when we did, and all the dates are different.
OSD! That was really good! And I love what you said about your mother. I hope Mike’s “storm on the horizon” reference is any day now and that your mother feels her grandaughter’s hug soon.
I meant Cooper (not OSD).
Cooper Kessel, I like your mom
Interesting comments all. It was the list of names in the displays in the original post that sparked my comment.
BTW, w.martin, I do like your “cranky side!” And I love your posts! Continue posting what you feel! You’re a benefit to all here.
The list underscores the sheer extent of the deception….it is staggering how much money is represented by those names…imagine if all that money had been donated for something that REALLY makes a difference, like Save the Children or the Red Cross, etc…so sad…
You are so right in what you have said, there are so many charities that could do so much good with all this money and make such a difference to peoples lives, it is very sad indeed. I used to love the Simpsons, I didn’t know that Nancy was involved in Scientology until I started reading this blog, now I just can’t watch it anymore. Oh well!
I think the reason Nancy’s name isn’t mentioned is because when her fans or reporters google her name, it will link with Scientology if she is public about her donations. She is probably trying to minimize her involvement with Scn publicly so that it doesn’t hurt her career. Most of the stars don’t mention Scn or talk about it other than Tom Cruise and Kirstie Alley (although I use the term “star” very loosely in connection with her.)
Bruce, that would be entirely against Command Intention. In the past, the cult’s other organizations would give money to other of the cult’s organizations as if they were actually donating money for good cause.
It’s no wonder that when long time members, staff or SO leave for good, it take 3 years for every year they were in to fully recover. As I’ve said before, their reputation is just a shade above Jonestown…
Three years for every year…?
Based on…?
I appreciate that is not the point of your post but I’d be greatful for the answer.
I believe I got from Steve Hassan in his book “Combating Mind Control.” Or, maybe is was Jon Atack. Sorry for the feeble mind, Chris.
Bruce,
Nothing wrong with giving to charities when there is need and one can donate.
In the case of the Red Cross you mentioned, they did a super lousy job of helping after hurricane Sandy
and also in Haiti, yet the photo shoots were always shown. There are these darn similarities with the cherch…
Google ‘think + before + you + donate’ to ensure your money goes to a place it will ACTUALLY do some
good.
Greta
Doctor’s without Borders … I do a monthly deduction from my checking.
Never worry that it isn’t being used ethically and for a human in need somewhere. 1999 Nobel Peace Prize winners too. These are just everyday physicians from around the world who go into the most dangerous hellholes and treat people … everyone … hurt? Come in, we’ll see how we can help you.
Greta, you beat me to it. 🙂 The Red Cross is especially pernicious as it’s been drummed into our brains from childhood. In actuality, the Salvation Army is about the best bang for the buck when it comes to donations.