Through the manufacture of fear, scarcity and even hysteria — individuals in society can be brought under control and conformity.
This is a quote from Hubbard that is perfectly clear and one he apparently took to heart (They don’t actually give his quote about the true danger of the atomic bomb which I bet is a beauty based on his “research” on the danger of radiation…)
Fear and scarcity? Like what scientologists are taught about scientology being the ONLY HOPE of mankind in endless trillions of years and the last chance before black nothingness descends on the universe? Or that psychiatrists are whole-track implanters intent upon enslaving all man? Or the Fifth Invaders are watching and ready to descend on earth once more. Or that this is a prison planet populated by people consigned to eternity by an evil galactic overlord. Or how about the good old reactive mind that everyone has that causes them to commit involuntary self-destructive acts?
We need not even mention all the other crazy in this single piece. If this contains the secrets of how to “systematically attain any goal” how come not a single org has achieved St. Hill size? They don’t apply the tech?
And wow — a CD for only $15!!! Wonder how much the cassette and reel-to-reel versions are going for these days…
You almost have the correct nom de plume. It should be “Proofofafool.”
To my good friends Pat Krenik and Foolproof,
You might lower your stress levels if you would ‘obnose’ that this blog is not about the scientology tech, its maintenance and upkeep. It is mostly (IMO) about individuals who have been mishandled/screwed-over/ lied-to/ robbed.
My take on the tech is that it was (1950s-1960s) research in the sense that Hubbard tried out many approaches and processes to improve or entertain his followers with. He kept those that worked, often times conveniently neglecting to acknowledge the contributions of many authors so as to embellish himself. In the cauldron of the first Briefing Course my dear friend Helen Kitchen told of the day-to-day changes in processes and focus that Hubbard exercised. So, yes there was ‘human response research’ going on, with the students as the test subjects.
SCIENTIFIC research is another, and very different, testing method. One that Hubbard would have (or did) rejected as beneath his massive ego: The ego that said—- YOU are God, Ron baby; and don’t you forget it!!!! Scientific research quickly and easily has shown that a robot running of the entire grades and OT levels will produce nothing of worth, consistently nothing of worth.
Current social sciences, including the dreaded psych-whatever sciences, produce better results in 2018 than the COS can do. I love what I learned in the training (Cl 4) but recognize that it is simply another form of talk therapy that is totally dependent on the skills of the practitioner.
My admonition to you is to never use the word ‘scientific’ in discussing scientology because the scientific community will shred you and your subject.
I often hear people voice opinions along the line of the lower grades having some benefit, but not the upper levels.
For myself, I think every single bit is dangerous and or BS, because the minute you accept one thing as true or workable, it leads to the next, the next, and soon you’re coming up with your own ways to still the cognitive dissonance that inevitably arises. You’re KSW or you’re not…You wake up 40 years later…….gulp.
But …trying to take a page from Aaron’s book, trying to back off it a bit – –
I wonder…
if you had a person who had read the blogs, read the books telling the REAL tale of Hubbard, all the biographies and exposés, all the tv shows,…..
THEN
sat the person down and ran some objectives or grades… could he get any gain? Could he get “a win” or, as some claim, a lasting gain? If the person KNEW what a lying sack of poop Hubbard was and how he died…
My guess is perhaps you could get a ‘win”, one of those fleeting things of feeling groovy about a realization. But nothing permanent.
or..not.
……..
my guess: NO. Because otherwise, by now, the Indie movement would have surpassed the COS.
Rip,
My guess is also NO…… if the guide/auditor is walking through the entire set of ‘standard’ processes the PC will get bored out of their mind. The PC is forced to conform to a mind set required by KSW and rote processes.
If instead, the guide/auditor said: ‘Hey, whats bothering you?’ and talk through it; or, ‘What’s holding you back?’ and talk through it; I believe a person would benefit.
I have done this with and without a meter. I’ve used ideas from all of the grade processes as long as the person is interested. I’m still friends with these people and i get an occasional question to help them sort out a problem/situation..
Agreed jim. Anything possibly useful is straitjacketed by rote huge, ponderous processes that if done “correctly” drive most people to distraction or apathy. Hubtard make the route wrongly assuming that all people had the same problems to overcome. Or, more likely, set it up like that to increase fees for auditing.
Wynski,
Thanks.
Haha – look at these “experts” here pontificating on what they think Scientology technology is. You couldn’t make it up! Well, they can.
The onus of proof is on you to supply empirical evidence to back up your spurious claims about Tubbolards almost miraculous technology. At the moment all you are doing is proving that you are a fool and a boring bloody apprentice troll.
I’m betting that you won’t be able to resist making some sort of an attempt at a devastating reply.
All of my replies are indeed – devastating! As to “onus of proof” I am not here to debate with anyone about the technology and its results. You could of course ask the hundreds of thousands of people who have received auditing and training but they probably couldn’t be bothered to trade arguments with born sceptics and nay-sayers. The fool here is the person who has a treasure chest of gold in front of him but then says “prove it to me”. And even if I provided you with so-called empirical evidence you would still work out some way of deriding it for whatever reasons you have to do so. Please feel free to carry on searching for and desiring “empirical evidence” before you can make a decision, you’ll be gone a long time.
I am not here to debate with anyone about the technology and its results.
Pray tell? What ARE you doing here then?
Like most trolls he knows just enough about $camology (or any other subject for that matter) to show how little he really understands and makes comments that show, ultimately, what an utter arsehole he is. He will also, no doubt, reply to this comment with the same crap he has spouted earlier.
Do you not realize that this site is composed purely of trolling? And I am being accused of being a troll!?
But Mike I thought you liked having me here? But it seems only if I don’t ask awkward questions or point out the obvious errors or preposterous ideas in comments made by others? When it gets too uncomfortable my original remarks are deflected by ad hominem comments like those below or I am asked “what am I doing here?” But you yourself seem to offer on a regular basis my motive for doing so, and Ms. B. Haven – one of the chief Lab Rats, is constantly asking me such and even asking for stories from me to replace the drivel of the embarrassing Terra “technical” articles!
Or perhaps what it is, is that I like swimming in shark infested Wynski waters especially when the shark’s or “Lab Rats” have it pointed out to them that their bites are actually toothless.
As to the Lab Rat theme, this is one of the latest and major themes on here now where all the usual suspects nod sagely and agree, yet we find that despite billions of dollars of “scientific research” staffed with thousands of men and professors in white coats and stethoscopes and no doubt huge laboratories with all sorts of impressive devices and machines, that the only advance in the unraveling of the mysteries of the human mind and condition, has reached the level of feeding rats anti-depressants and then slicing the rats’ tendons and throwing it in a pool of water to see if those who have not taken the anti-depressant drown first! And despite all this enormous effort and expense the handling of a simple ARCX in a rudiments session has done more for the human condition in 5 minutes of auditing than millions of hours and dollars of “research” into and “therapy” of the human mind! And I or rather Hubbard am supposed to now seek approval from the “scientific community”? Chief Lab Rat Ms. B Haven admits that there is no other mental therapy worthy of the name (honest of her at least – the rest of you avoided the question by firing off ad hominem remarks in my direction), and yet somehow Hubbard should have subjected his technology to the same “scientific research”? I do believe it was indeed offered in the early 50s but as the goals of the researchers are diametrically opposed to those of Scientology, was hardly likely to be accepted, was it?
So MWesten can spout all the hot air that he likes about this study and that study etc. from the men in white coats funded no doubt by the manufacturers of anti-depressants, and yet the facts remain that Scientology is the only spiritual technology that can make a crying man laugh again as only a tiny fraction of what it is capable of. Has and can all this “research” do even this little yet very wonderful thing? You all know the answer.
Wow, so much insanity packed into such incomprehensible blather. Logicproof for the win!
As to “onus of proof” I am not here to debate with anyone about the technology and its results.
Then why are you here?
You could of course ask the hundreds of thousands of people who have received auditing and training but they probably couldn’t be bothered to trade arguments with born sceptics and nay-sayers.
You are appealing to a very bizarre “popularity” (a logical fallacy – google it). If the basis of your argument is that scientology is “a treasure chest of gold” then why are there not hundreds of thousands of people still utilising it? There are arguably far more people in the world that have tested and rejected scientology than there are who continue to use it? Should I appeal to them to make the case that scientology is perhaps not the shiny treasure trove you claim?
In the USA, some 5 million people have admitted to trying heroin at least once in their lives yet less than 1.5 million use to this day*. Using your fallacious logic, heroin is a) popular (therefore “good”) even though b) 70% of those who tried it gave it up. Weird.
Needless to say, just because there are 2 billion muslims in the world does not mean Muhammad flew to heaven on a winged horse.
In a world filled with competing ideas and opinions, with dogma, propaganda, manipulation, misdirection and cognitive bias, we use logic to improve how we think, not what we think. A toolset born of an age (the Enlightenment) that advanced the import of reason, of individual liberty, progress, religious tolerance and the separation of church and state – advances that we all benefit from every single day, that allowed for scientology and other religious groups to evolve and exist in the first place. It is not to be sniffed that.
No one is denying your right to believe as you see fit. It’s only when you start making extraordinary claims for your beliefs that extraordinary evidence is typically required for them.
If you claim that scientology “works” then you are suggesting it does what its author claimed for it. This is an extraordinary claim. In the absence of evidence (which doesn’t necessarily equal evidence of absence, I grant you) there is nothing else to go on but faith. You seem to resent this fact, as if “faith” is somehow shameful or something to be scorned.
If you were really honest with yourself, and you actually stopped and dissected your beliefs in a logical manner, you would perhaps be open to the proposition that aspects of scientology “may provide some therapeutic value.” I say this to the most rabid scientology critics too, btw. That scientology is completely useless, providing no possibility of even the slightest therapeutic benefit, is just as illogical and extreme a belief as yours.
Again, in the absence of any evidence it is still a faith-based claim. But it’s a decent place to start. Far less “extraordinary.” And far less worthy of scorn – whether its your critics’ or your own.
* According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) and Office of National Drug Control Policy.
“Faith”? Scientology’s results have nothing to do with Faith despite your insistence that it does and hoping thereby that people won’ think about what you said and compare it to real life. I have seen, i.e. OBSERVED – IN THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE, and so have others, many many people who have changed their lives for the better because of the technology of Dianetics and Scientology. For just one minor (?) example I have seen people who were quiet and somewhat introverted who – after they had Grade 0 were totally different – extroverted, talkative and very happy that they were so now. I have SEEN people who had long term illnesses and headaches and pains now saying that they don’t have them anymore after receiving auditing.I have seen sad people become happy people. I worked in Tech and Qual for years and have SEEN these results. Faith? Phooey! The results were quite objective and others agreed that they were observable in the physical universe. I could list probably dozens if not hundreds of examples if I really thought about it, as I am sure could many others commenting here.
On a minor little point I remember overhearing in a shop I was in someone who had been hiccuping for 3 days and it would not stop. I simply said to her “stop resisting it” and of course it stopped straight away and she asked me how I had done that. It was a miracle for her (she said) but fairly straightforward for me with my training. This is the sort of thing that Jesus became famous for so you can see that just with this little example in comparison we are talking indeed of “miracles” to any technology that ever existed before.
But quite frankly I am not interested in bothering about replying to all these demands about “prove to me that it works” – no one owes these people who demand that anything. It is falling on deaf ears anyway. They don’t want to hear it and hope that one won’t actually take the trouble to prove evidence of it doing so, or if you can be bothered to produce evidence that anyone can SEE they will say that it is not really “evidence” and re-define the word to suit their agendas. Etc. etc.They seem desperate to prove that the subject does not work. Why? What is their agenda, or their fears?
“On a minor little point I remember overhearing in a shop I was in someone who had been hiccuping for 3 days and it would not stop. I simply said to her “stop resisting it” and of course it stopped straight away and she asked me how I had done that. It was a miracle for her (she said) but fairly straightforward for me with my training. This is the sort of thing that Jesus became famous for so you can see that just with this little example in comparison we are talking indeed of “miracles” to any technology that ever existed before.”
Err…okay. It’s great that your training enabled you to help someone overcome hiccups… And I’m tickled that you’ve compared yourself to Jesus… Yet you surely must appreciate the leap of faith inherent in your final sentence? Unless you have mastered every single “technology” on this planet (both past and present) to be able to draw such an extraordinary conclusion?
“Scientology’s results have nothing to do with Faith despite your insistence that it does and hoping thereby that people won’ think about what you said and compare it to real life. I have seen, i.e. OBSERVED – IN THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE, and so have others, many many people who have changed their lives for the better because of the technology of Dianetics and Scientology. …I could list probably dozens if not hundreds of examples if I really thought about it, as I am sure could many others commenting here.”
You’ve argued my point for me. Few here would disagree there is at least some therapeutic benefit to be gained from elements of scientology. The (solely positive) results you’ve described are comparable to those found in any number of psychological therapies as well as religious faith. They are not in any way unique or unusual to scientology.
I’m not knocking it, btw. Even some of the most mundane-sounding successes can result in significant life changes. Yet you are not arguing the potential for generic therapeutic benefit, unfortunately. There is a world of difference between what you’ve just described and the claims you (and Hubbard) have made. Can you see the distinction between someone feeling happier about life, overcoming an upset or ill (or hiccups) and the claims made regarding “clear”, “operating thetan”, perfect memory, disease, superhuman powers, etc.? Is it possible that scientology might not “work” in this regard? That it may well help people in specific areas, but not in others? Is your mind so firmly closed to the possibility that Hubbard over hyped his work? Even just a teeny, tiny bit?
“They seem desperate to prove that the subject does not work. Why? What is their agenda, or their fears?”
It is unreasonable to make scientific claims for a therapy and not provide any evidence to support them. Period. Particularly one with a hefty price tag. If scientology (and scientologists) were honest with both themselves and the public, they would admit that there is no evidence to verify its efficacy beyond simple anecdotes and intuition – factors significantly affected by cognitive biases and the placebo effect. Faith. Other therapies and their practitioners take this into account. They don’t pretend to be something they’re not. They adhere to the scientific method. They don’t over hype what’s achievable.
It is far easier to assign nefarious motives to people who disagree with you than it is to understand them. You see this often in political debates. It’s the height of intellectual laziness and a clear sign the accuser is incapable of reasoned discourse. So I’ve been trying to share with you information as to why some (not all) folks might hold the position they do. Dismiss me if you need to. Or take on board for future reference. It is entirely up to you. Either way, I do appreciate you taking the time to respond to me and I have enjoyed learning more of your viewpoints. Have a lovely weekend. ?
FP, every true believer has stories of miracle cures, whether it’s from kissing the feet of statues or revering the portrait of an old guru. It’s placebo effect, combined with phenomenon like confirmation bias* and false attribution (of things that would have occurred anyway).
I don’t suppose Hubbard taught you about the placebo affect, cognitive biases, and other phenomenon that can fool people – fancy that oversight, from a man who supposedly knew it all. But you are part of quite a tradition that also includes the Christian Scientists who believe that can heal, the transcendental meditators at Maharishi University in Iowa who are certain that they can levitate, and so on.
* Confirmation bias – Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…
Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias, is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one’s preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.
I will take a leaf out of your book and start with a quote from your comment: “Unless you have mastered every single “technology” on this planet (both past and present) to be able to draw such an extraordinary conclusion?!” Still wriggling out of answering the initial question by proposing an unreal and ludicrous condition, hoping that people won’t notice that it is ludicrous. But this was exactly my question to all and sundry – other than Scientology, WHAT other technology (of the mind and spirit) exists? And we can throw in what “scientific research” has gone into this awesome list to this question.
I’m all ears and still waiting…
Replying to Peacemaker’s desperate attempt to negate my comment about stopping someone’s hiccups above:
This is exactly what I mean with my statement of: “They don’t want to hear it and hope that one won’t actually take the trouble to prove evidence of it doing so, or if you can be bothered to produce evidence that anyone can SEE they will say that it is not really “evidence” and re-define the word to suit their agendas.”
I actually DID this! It occurred. Her hiccups stopped immediately, after 3 days of constant hiccuping! She was delighted! She asked me how I did that. Got it?
Now how anyone can position “placebo effect” or “Faith” or whatever disparaging term you may like to use to try and obscure or belittle the fact that this occurred, is beyond me. Either you can’t read simple English, or you can’t grasp a simple idea, or of course it disturbs you for whatever agenda you have, that such a simple application of Scientology was actually extremely effective and helped this person tremendously. The only fraud and charlatan here is you with your patently nonsensical comment who is hoping again that the fawning followers here don’t actually think about what you stated but simply nod heir heads sagely and agree with your drivel.
What is your position on people being cured in evangelical Christian churches by the laying in if hands? Or by visiting Lourdes? Is this Christian tech at work?
If so I have just answered your repeated requests for another body of tech that works comparable to Hubbard and is far more widely used.
If you don’t recognize this as tech, but as a result of faith, then why is scientology different than other faith?
Perhaps I should explain: the person whose hiccups stopped was just a person in a shop – she was not a Scientologist and had probably never heard of Scientology. It had nothing to do with “faith” as you are all trying to make out and deflect what is a simple straightforward story. Sorry to spoil all your obtuse efforts to make nothing of something when it doesn’t fit in with your agendas.
As to the laying on of hands as far as I know this does seem to work, but then so does a touch assist, which is of course a relatively very minor piece of Scientology technology. So you should stop embarrassing yourself by trying now to imply and juxtapose people visiting Lourdes with the whole content of the Technical Volumes, hundreds of different processes, communication drills, all of the the tapes of Hubbard, C/Ses, auditors, e-meters, examiners, word clearers, cramming, ethics, etc. etc.
And I have nothing against people curing themselves of something by faith either if they believe that and it works for them, but that is not the point here is it, despite your poor attempt to deflect again. But to compare such with the list above and try to make out – very craftily I might add, that Scientology is also a “faith system” in the same vein, is being mightily obfuscating and beating around a bush that doesn’t exist. As you well know! So talking of bushes that don’t exist, now without trying to deflect the conversation again. please “pray tell” (as used by Mwesten), what technology of the human mind and spirit can compare.
I’m still all ears, and as someone else stated, the sounds of crickets chirping has been going on for some while now.
So no faith in scientology, it’s all proven science. Except the only proof is anecdotal. Nothing wrong with anecdotes. But they don’t prove science.
Laying on of hands is just tiny part of the enormous volumes of Christianity. They’ve got a lot more books than scientology.
The resistance to recognizing Scientology IS based on faith is one of the hardest things there is to understand. There is nothing wrong with faith, but fundamental scientologists protest the idea that they have faith more vehemently than being accused of being satanic.
It’s one of the defining characteristics of a true scientologists.
Along with the conceit that if anyone asks a question or points out some illogic they are “attacking” and “trying to destroy man’s only hope.”
As to proof being “anecdotal” how otherwise then would the “research scientists” prove whatever it is they have failed to even postulate upon in the area of the mind and spirit, let alone “prove”? And why would one to want to “prove” to someone who says “I couldn’t communicate very well beforehand but since I have done Grade 0, I can now communicate with anyone!” And not only the recipient but all the people around him NOTICE THAT HE HAS CHANGED FOR THE BETTER and that what he says is observably true. But the “research scientists” don’t like observing do they? And fortunately I can also OBSERVE an E-Meter (for instance) and when it F/Ns and the person is smiling as he just resolved a long time problem for himself. Still, I suppose the Lab Rats would invent some nonsense to question this, instead of OBSERVING!
Any more attempts at waffling and beating around the bush? Your premise that Scientology is a faith system is total hogwash. The results are observable in the real universe.
And I am still waiting to hear of any other technology of the human mind and spirit that can compare!
Oh jeez. Once again, I cannot answer your question any better because it is based on a false premise. As I have already stated, you have not demonstrated how scientology meets the criteria you’ve assigned it. In the absence of any evidence, I must take your statement of faith…on faith. It’s folly. I’m out of ideas on how else I can explain this. It’s basic logic, dude. GIYF.
The anecdotal results you’ve ascribed scientology are of a nature comparable to any number of psychological therapies and religious faiths. Do you want me to post some of their “success stories”? Again, as I have already said, it is not unreasonable to be of the position that there may be some therapeutic benefit in scientology. But you have provided no evidence to suggest its potential extends beyond even the placebo effect or that its ultimate value is any more significant.
There’s nothing wrong with the placebo effect, per se. Psychologists have been arguing for decades as to whether talk therapies provide any real value beyond it. The distinction, however, is that psychologists adhere to the scientific method to demonstrate that even a placebo-affected result of therapy can be established and that it is significant enough to justify appropriate use.
There’s also nothing wrong with someone feeling happier about life or overcoming an upset or ill. If scientology was studied and delivered as a generic self-betterment therapy or as a treatment for specific disorders, it might well prove very useful. Even as a placebo effect. But that is a world away from how it is delivered now and the claims made for “clear”, “operating thetan”, of perfect memory, cures for disease and superhuman powers. I will ask you again: is it possible that scientology might not actually “work” in this particular regard? Do you have perfect memory or superhuman powers? If not, do you believe you will if you persist? Do you even know if they even exist? Because that’s faith, if nothing else.
As a religion, the claims made for scientology are not particularly unusual. What makes scientology unusual is that its practitioners:
a) deny their religiosity by attempting to cloak themselves with the trappings of scientific absolutism – no religious discipline does this
b) deny the value of logic, reason and the scientific method as means to establish credibility – no scientific discipline does this
c) expect to be taken at their word
This is a prime example of why scientology is not taken seriously – neither as a religion or as a system of therapy. I don’t doubt your loyalty to the subject, based on, and as well as, the therapeutic benefits you’ve achieved/perceived. But if you want scientology to be embraced by the world you will eventually have to take what I am saying onboard. Change your operating basis. Own up to your beliefs and quit fooling yourself that they are anything but. Or start a clinical trial. In other words, put up or shut up. Good day.
Read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence for starters. Wordclear it. Grab some clay and demo the crap out of it. Google cognitive bias whilst you’re at it. Then come back to this comment and read on.
Any given study of a psychological therapy will have a specific purpose (eg. “randomized controlled trial of grade 0 scientology and cognitive behavioral therapy for social phobia”) and include the use of numerous diagnostic tools, assessments, interviews, profiles, rating scales, questionnaires, etc. The data then undergoes rigorous statistical analyses (typically blinded to reduce confirmation bias) using a variety of evaluative methodologies, structural equation modeling, distribution analyses, cluster adjustments, error rate controls (eg. holm-bonferroni) the list goes on. There are long term followup studies on top of all that, such as logistic regression analysis, latent growth curve modeling, equivalence analysis, confidence intervals, etc. Results are then published for peer review and further study. And on and on it goes.
The purpose of this process is to establish a stronger, more robust proposition. Through meticulous, painstaking research that can be evaluated, repeated and verified, the efficacy of a talk therapy can be reliably established.
Compare this process with yours.
#forshame.
Oh look! Here’s another GREAT story, with thousands more just like it, which shows why scientology is so wonderful. See https://tonyortega.org/2018/07/03/when-scientologys-toxic-policy-of-disconnection-is-forever-saying-goodbye-to-angela-paris/
That is one heartbreaking tale.
It hits me hard because she died of breast cancer. Many of those are curable now. Mine was. She likely didn’t have to die.
reaaaaaallllly awful tale. I’d like to see her on Aftermath.
Note to OSA and ONJ (Other Nut Jobs) skulking on Mike’s and Tony’s blogs . . “MADE YOU LOOK!!!!!”
Haha – the lab rats and guys and gals with their white coats and stethoscopes doing “research” are out in force again peddling their favourite theory that because Hubbard didn’t have lab rats and millions of dollars of appropriations that his research is flawed. So then dear Lab Rats – pray do tell then what other field of mental research can compare with the body of knowledge that is Scientology and Dianetics? I’m all ears Sigmund Fraud with his made up titillating stories! Or what?
What astonishes me is that you don’t appear to have any self-reflection or perspective of how you look to the world. But I guess that is part and parcel of the scientology package. “I tell you the world is flat. I don’t buy your scientific proof. I know it’s flat and I feel sorry for all you deluded fools who cannot see the truth.”
But thanks once again for having the commitment of your beliefs to anonymously state your perspective — or troll this website. Because even if your intent is simply to distract people, your perspective is accurately that of a fundamentalist scientologist.
Mike, I used to think FOOLproof was an intelligent indie sort of fellow who is convinced that the ‘tech’ works because he had some success with it. Now I think he is nothing more than an OSA troll wasting people’s time here. I say this because of his consistent ad hominem attacks and inability to answer even the simplest questions posed in a civil fashion. He claims to have great wins on the ‘OT’ levels but doesn’t seem to be very much at cause over Matter, Energy, Space or TIME. He consistently posts comments days after your initial posting to drag other commenters away from the current topic at hand while never engaging in a real conversation.
I think Terra Cognita has done yeoman’s duty here at your blog by posting some well thought out articles that have inspired some meaningful discussion. I don’t always agree, but always find the topics worth reflecting on and sometimes commenting on. Terra might be close to being tapped out for subject material. I would like to see FOOLproof step in and provide some of his superior insight with full blown articles of his own so everyone can see the validity of the ‘tech’ from his lofty view point. Maybe some of us would see the error of our ways, clear up a few MUs (method 9 style) and be able to engage in his sort of lateral thinking. Perhaps you could offer up an invitation? Of course, don’t expect him to be able to meet any deadlines with his lack of cause over Time.
I think Mike keeps him around as a chew toy.
It’s hot air time again I see. What is your sentence in quotes supposed to mean? Am I being juxtaposed as a flat-earther now? However, as usual, I am still waiting to hear of any other workable mental therapy. I am all ears. It is amazing that when an uncomfortable question is posed the subterfuge and deflective nature of the replies forthcoming to camouflage the fact of no response to the original question, seems to know no bounds.
Logicproof blathered insanely, “However, as usual, I am still waiting to hear of any other workable mental therapy”.
If I claimed to have a tech that made people turn into gold and people challenged that claim, it would be irrelevant if no other person had such a tech. The ONLY thing that would matter is proving MY person to gold tech worked. Or didn’t.
Your insane attempt to misdirect is just that.
Nailed it. Logicproof can only offer up KSW style bullshit that the ‘tech’ works 100% of the time on 100% of the people if applied 100% standardly. Except when it doesn’t. If one expects it to work as advertised, then they have ‘hidden standards’. If they want to see evidence that the ‘tech’ works (show me a ‘clear’ or someone with ‘OT’ abilities) then they have hidden standards. If the ‘tech’ seems strange, illogical, nonsensical, questionable, baffling, or just plain fucked up then one must have ‘MUs’. This isn’t just a Miscavige era issue, it started way back before DMSMH when Hubbard was supposedly conducting his ‘research’ and perfecting his methods. Except he wasn’t. The only thing he really got good at was money extraction which is the goal of any con artist. In that regard he was world class.
As far as I can tell, there is no other workable mental therapy out there. So what. Some people are helped by some techniques and drugs, most people probably aren’t. Some people search around an eventually find something that helps them with what they want help with and some people are just perpetually frustrated (or worse). That’s unfortunate, but that seems to be the way things are, at least in my very limited experience. Most other therapies out there aren’t claiming miraculous results. If they are, all it takes is a quick google search to find out a little bit more about them and their outlandish claims are soon put to rest. I wish I had a magic bullet to solve people’s mental problems but I don’t. If I did I’d give it away instead of trying to fuck people out of their money.
Are you that stupid that you cannot see an analogy if it slapped you upside the head?
sigh…tilting at windmills again. But the world has moved way beyond Freud. There is a LOT of research in psychology. Much more research, in fact, than Hubbard ever did, inasmuch as he just made things up, wrote them down and charged thousands of dollars for his crap.
BTW, aren’t you subject to sec checking for even being here?
“pray do tell then what other field of mental research can compare with the body of knowledge that is Scientology and Dianetics?”
Actually, NOTHING compares with it. Because it’s specifically designed for deluded fuckwits such as yourself!!!
Well, stick it up your ass!
“…pray do tell then what other field of mental research can compare with the body of knowledge that is Scientology and Dianetics? I’m all ears.”
Your basic proposition here is that scientology/dianetics is “a field of mental research.”
I have asked you on numerous occasions to make reasoned arguments to support this claim. Not once have you done so. The burden of proof is on you, sir. You seem unable or unwilling to do so. Why is that? Do you perhaps have an m/u?
How do you expect to have an enlightened, sophisticated debate without using logic and reason?
I can only assume this isn’t your expectation. Weird.
“Arrogance and force may win dominion and control but will never win acceptance and respect.” — LRH, HCO PL 30 May 1971, PR Series 9, MANNERS
Debate? Who said I wanted a debate? And I’m still waiting to hear of any mental therapy that actually works, despite your clever deflection of my original question. AS some other bright spark stated – sound of crickets chirping…
FP, are you contending that Dianetics and Scientology “work,” in comparison – and if so, then what’s your evidence, or research?
There is anecdotal evidence for all sorts of ineffective and quack therapies, from Freudian Analysis. In the end, it all only proves that you can fool some of the people some of the time, and that the the placebo effect is in fact rather strong and seemingly persuasive.
If you want to talk about real research, then you should put yours on the table, so that people know what the starting point of the conversation is. If you throw out a challenge like yours, without a reference point such as research supporting your contention, people have no idea what to respond to. It’s sort of like, well, challenging people to prove that the earth isn’t flat.
Here’s a general article about the three most effective therapies:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-well/201603/and-the-three-best-therapy-methods-are
Here’s a more in-depth article on the same general subject, from Scientific American, citing studies:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-all-psychotherapies-created-equal/
If you want specific studies, or metastudies, then you have clarify what you’re referring to – are you talking about effectiveness in treating depression, or anxiety, or what? Real science is based on specifics like that, not just generalities.
Again with your illogic.
1. False premise. As mentioned, your question included a proposition that scientology is a “field of mental research” – the truth of which has not yet been established. So I say again: I have asked you on numerous occasions to support this claim. Not once have you done so. The burden of proof is on you.
2. Define “works”. I can point you to any number of published studies regarding CBT, IPT, BAT, psychodynamic therapy, etc., in the treatment of specific ills/disorders. Neuroimaging studies that suggest how meditation reduces anxiety, improves coping mechanisms and enhances one’s capacity for happiness. Actual research where therapeutic value has been established. (On CBT alone, see https://goo.gl/f66T9J – there are thousands) You have not provided any evidence establishing the existence of a state of “clear”, let alone whether scientology actually achieves it. You have also failed to provide evidence of any general therapeutic value. Again, why is that?
So before you begin to compare the workability of your favourite therapy with another, you should really try to establish said therapy even has workability (and to what purpose) before you do anything else. That way your arguments won’t seem so vacuous.
On a more personal note, the more you try to rationalise your beliefs within the trappings of science, the more miserably your arguments will fail. Your certainty in scientology is clearly faith-based and there should be no shame in admitting that. It is a religion afterall.
Scientology is just the repackaging of Freud and other existing ideas, plus a whole lot of nonsense and a huge price tag.
FP, if Freud is your standard, then that doesn’t paint Hubbard in a good light. Freud was rather unscientific in an early era when that wasn’t too uncommon – but there was no excuse for Hubbard to be anywhere near as un-rigorous and unjustifiably theoretical, half a century later.
How is Hubbard any better than Freud, with his theories about revisiting the personal past that turned out to be ineffective in actually changing behavior, and more based on his personal problems than the universal human condition? Freud at least published his research case studies, however inadequate they may seem in retrospect – where are the nearly 300 that Hubbard referred to in Dianetics, and claimed were available for review as of 1950?
Hubbard had millions of dollars by the mid-1950s, and created the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation – which I’ve found to still exist, according to corporate records. So for over half a century, there has been the money and the means – so where are the actual results? Even the supposedly floating Transcendental Meditation followers managed to set up their own university and at least get dubious research published in uncritical journals, why hasn’t Scientology been able to do anything at all along those lines?
And even Sarge Gergbode was able to create TIR on his own, and get research performed and publish demonstrating that it had effectiveness beyond just placebo effect. Why is Scientology, official or independent, unable to do anything similar? If you want evidence of therapy proven more effective than Dianetics or Scientology, here it is – just one of many, but a particularly relevant one:
https://www.tira.org/research/
There’s even a whole book that you can get:
Traumatic Incident Reduction: Research and Results
https://www.amazon.com/Traumatic-Incident-Reduction-Research-Results/dp/1932690506
The reason why so many Scientologists come across as nutty is because they have to filter everything they think through the maze of Hubbard’s mind numbing system. Doing what Ron says is equivalent to the juvenile notion of putting all your faith in daddy, just like that old television show Father Knows Best.
…….it’s amazing to progress along the line of ridding this from my mind. It’s an absolute delight.
Look at that sick freak! ?? always love looking at that photo and contrasting it with the photos that the cult shows in the fake video biography of this POS masquerading as a human. Is that what a Super Power OT VIII Big Being looks like? Think I’ll pass. ?
Those Kools he is always smoking keep boosting him to the top of the tone scale. ?
Yep. They’re good for you.
Which picture are you referring to? The one of L Ron Hubbard or the one of Brittney Malm?
So…if i subscribe to the “tech” ..beliefs ..reach OT VIII. In the end i look like Hubbard ..as pictured?
Sorry ..no thanks
hi mike me-ex scientologist would say that ron hubbard himself advocated the use of fear hysteria and intimidation on people. Don’t forget or deny the things that have happened to people.
News tonight in SW FL includes a story about a “scam” with people collecting money for “the poor” at intersections. They claim to collect money for a church, New Life. Knowing what I do about cults, I believe these poor fools really do stand at busy intersections in blasting heat, collect money, and hand it over to their “church.” They get squeezed by their cherch just like $citols.
Telex your order today!
🙂 WAYC.
And if you don’t have telex then go down to your local telegraph office at the Tombstone railway station and ask Stumpy the telegraph operator to send send your request via morse code telegram.
If that’s not possible then get Ugg, the Beater Out of Messages on a Log, in the cave three caves down to send out your order.
Please remove me from this list. I can’t find a place to unsubscribe. Too much attention on the COS, not enough on Scientology, an organized body of scientific research knowledge concerning life, life sources and the mind, and includes practices that improve the intelligence, state, and conduct of persons.” HCOB 9 July 1959.
Patricia, to what list are you referring? Just curious.
You do understand there is ZERO scientific research?
You do comprehend that there is no organized knowledge? (Just a poor rehash of some good general principles to live by, here and there. Mixed in with total lies and just enough truisms to convince you, there’s something there, and it’s you who isn’t quite “getting it”.)
You do see the hypocrisy that a group that treats one another so wickedly proclaims their practices “improve conduct”?
I wish you well, but please understand Scientology is not here to help you. It’s here to assist in the removal of your MONEY.
You can play on my soccer team.
You’d lose, and heavily.
Hi Patricia, I would encourage you to stay with this blog and participate in the discussions. Of course some of it might be hard for you to confront and surely there will be a few ad hominem attacks. That’s just the nature of the beast on the internet but since you seem to be someone who is immersed in scientology you will be able to use what your training has provided and easily withstand such onslaughts. The rest of us seem to be able to pull that off.
I for one would love to hear what you have to say about scientology being an organized body of scientific research. In all the time I was in, I was never able to uncover a single scrap of research or evidence of research. I purchased all of the available Research & Discovery Series books and found no research in them at all. I also scoured the Red Vols as well as the Green Vols and trained to Class IV.
True confession: I clearly remember when I first walked through the doors with a body router and got handed off to a Div 6 reg. I asked about research at the that time. I was told about some sort of secretive research that Hubbard conducted before the release of DMSMH. Of course this research had to be somewhat clandestine because world governments wanted to suppress it. (That’s why I had never heard of it before). Me being a very naive 20 something immediately conjured up a James Bondish/Goldfingerish image of a dedicated but shunned scientist working in an off-shore lab to perfect the technology that would free mankind from pain and suffering of not only a mental nature, but spiritual as well. I wanted that to be true more than anything else and I took the bait; hook, line and sinker. That’s my story, embarrassing as it is.
So, if you can shed some light on the nature of the research that Hubbard has conducted over the years, I’m all ears. In fact, I’ll make an offer to anyone reading this (OSA net nannies included). I’ll pay for their auditing all the way to Clear if they can show me the research (real scientific research, you know, the kind you would expect of a doctor that was doing heart surgery to have studied before they cut into your chest, not just make it up as they go along as a result of postulates) behind this exalted state of being. After that, I’ll pay for someone’s auditing and training (Sec Checks not included) all the way to OT III if they can show me a single Clear. One, Just one.
Gauntlet down. Any takers? Foolproof?
…crickets…
lots of crickets
Before you go, Patricia, can you give me one, just one, reference to the “scientific research knowledge” youi mentioned – just one citation. Also, you have an end quotation mark, with no beginning quotation mark, so it’s not clear who’s saying what here, you or Hubbard. Only one legitimate reference to the research you mention. Surely that’s not too much to ask. Thank you.
It starts with “Scien”, that sounds sort of sciency.
In response to your request for proof of any bona fide research done by Hubbard, I’m guessing we’ll hear nothing but crickets.
*chirp chirp*
Patricia, like all scamologists, you are a COMPLETE idiot. Mike doesn’t subscribe people to his blog. THEREFORE, he cannot UNSUBSCRIBE you.
I would have thought that your experience of opening and then closing an Indie org due to NO INTEREST in scamology by the public would have taught you something.
Patricia, I’m assuming this comes to you via your email. You can control the notices at the bottom of the email. You may want to remove me from your FB friends list also. I’m kinda bored tring to find anything left good in Scientology except the friends I found along the way. Good luck ?
I feel smarter already!
Patricia,
This not a “list”. If you’re getting notifications, you must have signed up and gave up your email address.
COS stands for the church of scientology. If you want to learn about scientology go here: https://www.scientology.org/
There are many here who have spent years, if not decades, in scientology so it might behoove you to hear what they have to say.
We have not found anyone who has been able to demonstrate any of those things promised in the HCOB you mention even after spending hundreds of thousands of dollars.
What the hell, you just might be the first person to get it, so go for it.
We’ll probably see you here again down the road.
“To get this offer BEFORE IT EXPIRES…” So they are about to run out of e-books? E-books that very few people will even want?
Despite their best effort, they may not be quite able to attain the levels of “fear” or “hysteria” that they would ideally like to see with this grave prospect. But it is certainly an appeal to “scarcity” if there ever was one! In fact, the same scarcity appeal that you will find on any get-rich-quick, miracle weight loss or penile enhancement infomercial.
Yo Dave,
There are certain types of people in society, especially the $cientologist, that are constantly pushing false advertising lies and promotional stuff on you. The intention is simply to get control over you through the manufacture of fear, scarcity and hysteria.
You do a great job of that Dave, especially with your little disconnection technique which does not exist of course.
We out here on the fringes have broken free of all that you do Dave. It does not cost $15.00 although you might have to give up some family and friends in the process, possibly endure some PIs hired by your cherch to harass and intimidate, know that you might never again see your family members or share times with friends who remain stuck in the fear, degradation and mass hysteria that has become the Church of Scientology.
Such is the price of freedom Dave.
Scientology, imo, can best be understood as the description of mankind’s operating contempt for themselves. That’s my take of Hubbard’s fear and loathing mindset he employs. Everyone else is a dangerous incompetent fool according to Hubbard, unless of course you stand to attention with the national anthem of the Cof$ – KSW1. For only Hubbard found the way out… geezers! The Pied Piper had nothing on Hubbard’s aspirations and deceitful control of any person would finds themselves walking that narrow path to Freedom ONLY he could ever delineate, no matter how much you make it your own. The state of OT and all the carrots presented for the desirability of Hubbard’s Bridge are simply a route to a fool’s paradise (graveyard of the mind, body & soul). For somehow, Scientology has the knack of making people eager to give all they have, including family & future for a state of mind which if even slightly attained is severely punishable within the Church and it has the policy to police you out of existence if you ever try to be yourself. It’s an insane con, both in and out of the Cof$ to believe that Hubbard wanted you to go free. Quite the opposite actually!
For, if there is a way to view Scientology comfortably, one must first accept the evidence, then the man behind that evidence. The rest relies on your eventual compassion but please don’t let it stand in the way of justice taking its course.
I thought the national anthem was that We Stand Tall song we’ve all laughed out so many times.
They don’t actually give his quote about the true danger of the atomic bomb which I bet is a beauty based on his “research” on the danger of radiation…
“The greatest danger from atomic fission and the testing of bombs is the hysteria it can cause amongst populaces – an hysteria which can grow so great that a populace can be thrown out of control. That’s point number one.
“Point number two: the people who suffer from small doses of radiation are people who have a bad health record. They are not the people who are in excellent mental and physical condition… [They] are the infirm, the old, those who are liable to various shocks and upsets in life anyway. …Those people who are in excellent condition and whose mental stability is beyond question need have little to fear of this particular test cloud that goes around the world at this time.
“Now under the heading of number one, a scientologist, by group auditing, is capable of bringing a considerable calmness into an area which is upset. That’s correct, isn’t it?
“And under number two, it is the business of a scientologist to place people into a level of existence where they do not get sick with every stray germ that wanders their way.
“And this is one of our goals. Therefore, the two things I have mentioned are completely germane to scientology. In other words, these are scientological viewpoints with regard to the atomic bomb.”
He talks about India (“a wonderful place…except for its people,”) the Middle East, man’s inhumanity to man, weak governments, something about not granting beingness, blah blah blah, and so on and so forth. It’s all very wisdomous. Basically, the world needs the tech and scientologists are the only people who can resolve conflicts and prevent war.
Grrruughh! That was painful. ??
Thanks Mwesten,
You saved me the trouble of looking up that quote from my copy of ALL ABOUT RADIATION.
Makes you wonder why that book wasn’t part of the 2007 ‘Basics’ release.
Alcoboy,
Maybe because a medical Doctor was the co-author. Dr. Medicus.
It was not too bad a read for the early 1950’s understanding. i tried the ‘guck’ bomb that included Niacin back in the early 1970s. Even then they erroneously attributed the flushing of the skin to ‘radiation running out’. In fact Niacin is a vasodilator that produces the flush, and above 500 mg can be a liver toxin. An attempt to prove the use of the purif failed to show the results that the cherch wanted. No flushee baddies out of the body, fats, or blood.
Thank you for quoting that even though I know it hurt. I wanted to see what kind of gobbledegook he came up with about it.
Your workplace fatigue and so forth is being “pushed on you” by society and of course, the media! Its not like you’re lazy or anything like that.. Its not like you don’t WANT to work and be productive. Its not like you LIKE staying home and puttering around, eating croissants and watching Dr. Oz, Oprah and Fox & Friends. Oh, no! You just hate that! But you’re a victim. Your energy, your drive, your ambition are being purposefully drained.. Your power of choice over what you read and what you watch on TV is being overwhelmed.. Come and give us money so we cah show you how to get up off your lazy asses and get something done/. Let us show you how to prevail over this pernicious evil, “society” and that sworn enemy of the people, the media.
Oh, brother!
End of rant.
True. Just a few other points on that:
Work might make you feel exhausted if you’re barely making ends meet. But Scientology can help! Max out your credit cards and get a second mortgage. Then you will feel like a really big being! We will love bomb you, clap and sing, “Hip hip hooray!” Because you will be going free!
Freedom from of your burdensome 401k savings and home equity is liberating!
“You need bigger problems, Mr. Wog!”
The media is “pushing things on you.” Things we, the cult, don’t want you to see. So don’t look there. It will only make you feel worse to read the truth: We are a multi billion dollar fraud/business, not a religion.
And lastly… once you’re a few thousand dollars in, deeper in debt and ready for a nervous breakdown, you will discover that the “real reason” for all your troubles and ailments: You are an out-ethics POS.
We just don’t want to tell you that up front because… well… it’s just out PR and it really hurts our GI stats.
Good points you made, Title and well taken. Work can definitely exhaust a person who’s only making ends meet. I was in that state of mind for a while, back in the day. There were times back in the day that I could barely face getting up in the morning. It was mental exhaustion, not physical. Long and boring story. But then, you have to do something else, or manage your money better, or both. You have to stop eating, drinking or drugging yourself to excess, or sleeping to escape (which is what I did) if that’s how you’ve been doing yourself in. You hold your head up and you get out there and do what you have to do. You force yourself, you make yourself do it no matter how much you don’t want to. I’m not preaching. Its not easy. Its simple, but not easy. It does get easier though, once you make a start, and see some results. It gets easier and your energy comes back and you keep going because you remember how awful it was – how awful it is – to be the living dead. Media Schmedia. Turn off the TV and go to work. Do SOMETHING.
Oh, and if you somehow pony up all the cash to make it to the top, you will learn…….
the whole thing was a scam. You have no body thetans. And you are who you are.
That WAS a spoof piece…. But Brittney didn’t notice the irony of it.
Join Scientology and learn to be totally literal, never noticing the use of irony, hyperbole, and flat-out lies.
Sadly Brittney is a second or maybe even a third generation Scientologist. That is one of the few ways to get staff members — to go after kids of Scns. That and to go after third world countries offering immigration into the US. Nevermind they’ll have to give up their passports to the C of $ and they’ll eat substandard food and work slave hours for slave pay, but hey! they’ll be in America!
Just FYI for anyone interested…
People magazine investigates cults on the ID channel is fascinating…
Featured tonight is Army of God. So similar to the Scientology cult disconnection from family military uniforms, all of it!!!
Brittney is a 3rd generation. Mother had wealthy parents in since the early 60’s (Amber’s father dropped dead of a heart attack while on NOTs) and Brittney’s father an ex-S.O. member from the late 60’s who died young also due to a heart attack while on NOTs.
So with all this second and third generation Scns joining SO and staff, it could go on longer than we ever imagined. I just hope the house of cards falls sooner so I can get my kids back while I’m still alive to enjoy the reunion.
Sadly, there will be folks who fall for this drek, and who will be inundated with mailings of every sort until the cult finishes its implosion.
The only puffs of smoke will be from the last holdouts doing doobies outside the rear door.
Don’t drink the cool-aid. This low fee might seem enticing to the gullible, but then they will have your phone number, home address, and willingness to be BOTHERED FOR LIFE. The calls will start first, perhaps a friendly face shows up at your door (FSMing), and the eternal and endless promo mail begins. Friends don’t let friends buy from without an anonymous pseudonym.
As an outsider looking in – it’s evident to me at least, that the “tech” is pure hogwash. Mental brainwashing to convince the disciple that he can change himself and the world if applied “tech” is used.
These are the same techniques used by all cults. Follow our doctrine – and you will be happy, successful and you’ll change the world. Except it never, ever works. Because the tech is nothing more then propaganda. Pseudoscience gobbledygook.
Brainwashing techniques include repetitive exercises, sayings and sessions. Also heavily used by Scientology. This breaks down your natural conditioning and defenses and you become very pliable to suggestions and psychosomatic disorders.
What Hubbard devised was a systematic way of brainwashing disciples. Also relying upon fear and outright fantasy (aliens? really?) to convince disciples that he had the only answers for the entire world. That’s another technique used by most cults – they alone are the “right” answer for all of life’s problems.
Not everybody that reads your blog understands everything about Scientology. But there are a great many repeatable patterns in Scientology and other cults. Hubbard simply mixed science fiction and fantasy alongside of psychological programming, which Scientologists and ex-Scientologist will find ironic, considering his so-called hatred for psychologists. The truth is obvious here – Hubbard used psychology to teach against psychology and created a god-like status for himself among Scientologists.
It was a great con – for as long as it lasted, but it began to fall apart early on and required an enormous influx of people and money to survive. Scientology is a propaganda machine, endlessly churning out more and more propaganda in it’s never ending quest to suck money out of participants.
In this regard, it has been enormously successful, but it hasn’t changed a single thing the in the world. Not one thing. It’s status and respect is now reviled all over the planet and more and more people avoid Scientology and all things Hubbard with good reason – recognizing this as the brainwashing cult that it is.
I’ve known a few people that got sucked up into this years ago. It’s very sad to see what they become. Brainwashed zombies, totally unable to recognize and perceive their own condition. I’m still trying to find them and see if they survived and escaped or not. I certainly hope so.
JR, sorry about your friends but some to get out and manage to undo the mindrape. Type in their name and scientology, maybe you’ll find them.
“but it hasn’t changed a single thing the in the world. Not one thing.”
I respectfully disagree, JR. Scientology has brought a degree of evil into this world greatly disproportionate to its miniscule size. Punching way above its weight class, as it were.
Lol, I totally thought that was a spoof piece until I got to your comments at the bottom! Wow!
Same here.
“Hysteria” – perfect describtion of the stats-managment in the Sea Org which is accumulating to madness every Thursday before 2pm in Groundhogday manner.
And there are always artficially created emergencies to keep the staffmembers worried, harrassed and threatened.
Grasping at straws, yet another of the CDs newly repackaged to make the sheep fork out more $ to give Bridge Publications some income as the sheep have been mightily fleeced for the Ideal mOrgs.
I can’t wait for them to discover the 21st century and offer them as mp3s,,, maybe even online.
They would worship my iPad.
Hi, Brittney! No, I don’t want your CD or an e-meter, either! So stop contacting Mike and me!
Or maybe I should say: REFORM NOW!
There! That ought to shut her up!
In addition, I would like to dedicate this song to David Miscavige COB RTC:
ODE TO DAVID MISCAVIGE
(Sung to the tune of the Mary Tyler Moore song)
You can fleece the public with your smile.
You can take a worthless tech and suddenly make it all seem worthwhile.
Well, it’s you, bitch, and you do know it!
With each punch and every little slap kick, you show it!
Mike is all around, and you can taste it!
Leah’s in the house, and you can’t fake it!
You’re going downstat after all!
You’re going downstat after all!
hahahaha. Good points! If his shit really worked they would be overflowing with biz. Sounds good on paper though ay? It’s the same old maxim, “Don’t do as I do…just do as I say.” LOL
Of course the shit worked. That’s how he BUILT the CLAMPIRE! and it’s about all that’s keeping it together(somewhat) any more: Fear, hysteria and intimidation.
A person I used to work for told me that knowledge is power, and he was right. The way I see it is that as long as scientology keeps doing what it’s doing, staying stupid, it will fall down and go boom. I say that’s a very good thing. You really can’t fix stupid. You can, however, begin to see the the light. Maybe the still-ins will have an epiphany that they need to just cut their losses and get out quick.
I dream about every Org and mission, going up in a puff of smoke.
Far out… what kind of smoke?
“warm smell of colitas, rising up through the air…”
Eagles, Hotel California
DOWNSIDE
Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
“Relax,” said the night man
“We are programmed to receive
You can check-out any time you like
But you can never leave!”
Eagles, Hotel California
Reminds me of the Sci Fi movie “Rose Red”…..”come join us”…. Uhhhhh, no thanks!
A great dream, smokey atmosphere, a theme song! If Old Surfer Dude’s dream comes through I think all we need is a happy dance and we’ve got a winner 🙂
If the smoke has got some Labrador in it, save me some.
You smoke dog? Geezers…
Golden or brown?
HA HA! I get it!!
Indica. One of my favorites. Partaking right now…
That photo of L Ron Hubbard is repulsive. He was a con artist. He was able to hypnotize and use mind control tricks to fool us. He was evil beyond belief. I am so happy his scam is getting revealed. Thank you Mike and Leah for working relentlessly to get the truth out. You are saving lives. I am using your show to educate my friends and family who are in doubt. It works! The truth hurts when you are invested heavily like the people I know. BUT – we would rather have the truth than be kept in the dark.
Keep shining your bright light on the evil cult of Scientology and the dictator – David Miscavige.
THANK YOU – to all of you who have the courage to go public and expose Scientology.
May God Bless you all! You are true humanitarians.
Yeah, it blows my mind how anyone could look at his photos and not see the truly evil son of bitch he was. It’s written all over his face.
Regarding the photo of Hubbalard, I LOVE IT!
It accurately portrays his truly BIG “beingness..”
There’s a similar one out there where he’s kind of looking over his left shoulder.. his hair is long and unkempt and there’s a big bump on his forehead.
The ones of him with the tomatoes are nice too.
Eww… Excuse me…Here comes the gag reflex again..
“Through the manufacture of fear, scarcity and even hysteria — individuals in society can be brought under control and conformity.”
EXACTLY what Hubtard did with his flock in order to control their thoughts and actions. “Indies” think that they escaped that. No, they just changed physical locations and are still under his mind control.
Ya’ know, I’ve come to believe that the Indie movement might have been a good idea: True believers who could also look further afiend, compare and contrastmwith other ideaololgies, and talk it up amongst themselves to find some things that aceually work. I think we can agree that Tubby’s techniques did SOMEthing, even if it wasn’t what he promised. I wouldn’t be one of the guinea pigs, but I’d wish those who undertook the journey well, hoping that they could synthesize a working system out of the wreckage that Tubby left; which Dwarfenführer plays in.[Hope he jumps on a rusty nail and isn’t up-to-date on his tetanus shots.] [I shouldn’t endanger my karmic balance like that, but the Devil made me do it.] We don’t have to DO much about the corporate cult: It’s already dead. DM will exit with his platinum parachute and not have to work a day in his life…. However, he WILL have to live with the consequences, perhaps even suffer the pangs of his conscience…. NAWWWH, he can’t feel honest emotions, not even the crocodile tears of the sociopath. He MiGHT suffer pangs of guilt that he got CAUGHT, that he wasn’t as omniscient as he represents. Has the twerp ever felt a real, positive emotion? He did rage pretty good, quite often, in fact.
Yes, Jere, my thoughts exactly! That’s why I’m an indie.It gives me the freedom to test the data for myself and draw my own conclusions.
Sure. That’s what we all did while in, trying to figure out what the fuck he was talking about.
Here’s something to test out for yourself, something that an indie would likely buy into.
Hubbard says that tone levels behave as inflow, outflow, and stuck flows. He also said that they occur as harmonics. So, sit down with a chart of the full tone scale and see if you can work it out. Heck, you may even find a tone level that Hubbard didn’t think of which you could name after yourself.
Let us know what conclusions you were able to draw from that exercise.
Peabody, I’m not even going to satisfy you with an answer to that since your tone seems to convey to me that you’re just one of those ‘ bitter defrocked apostates ‘
Scientology is based on science and fact according to Hubbard and therefore Scientology is not something to believe in, therefore I am not an apostate.
I was never a member of clergy or ministers nor did I officiate at any worship services, baptisms, weddings, funerals, communion therefore I was never frocked to begin with.
I am not resentful, embittered, aggrieved, begrudging, rancorous, spiteful, jaundiced, ill-disposed, sullen, sour, churlish, morose, petulant, peevish therefore I am not bitter.
You say, “I’m not even going to satisfy you with an answer” because you don’t have one.
If you had taken the time to even look for understanding you would have taken so long that the course sup would have sent you to cramming.
Hey, Alcoboy, was hoping to find you here. I have a question about Indies. What is your stance on disconnection?
I believe that disconnection should be a personal choice and not something imposed by a higher authority. Those who want to enforce disconnection need to remember that the prior step to disconnect was to attempt to HANDLE the individual. In all these stories of Forced Disconnection I’ve read, none includes a prior attempt to
handle the person in question. So, to answer your question, I believe in voluntary disconnection.
Thank you for answering me.
Sure Jere, people who after being around for decades and not being able to point to ANY major abilities gained that Hubtard promised are free to be stupid and waste more time being Indies trying the same failed stuff over and over..
Yes! YES! Precisely what he did and what Miscavige has been doing for the past 32 years!