I have declined to comment about Marty Rathbun until now for two reasons:
- I had no additional information about him than anyone else did, though people assumed otherwise. Therefore, I could only speculate about his actions and why he would do and say the things he did. I try to avoid speculating, I would rather deal in verifiable facts.
- I considered him a friend and someone who had helped me when I was first leaving scientology. He was in a unique position as few had similar experiences in the Sea Org and with Miscavige as me, so it was easy for him to understand. I will always be grateful to him for that – he and Jason Beghe dropped everything and flew overnight to Denver when Monique Yingling and Bill Walsh came to try to “handle” me – those sort of acts of friendship I do not forget.
The thing I find most reprehensible is to turn on those who had been friends – from Monique’s lawyers to virtually everyone he had connected with since leaving scientology. I find this sad and ugly, and I am not inclined to do the same with respect to him.
I said above that I had no additional information – but now that he has made claims about me and Leah and Tony personally he has put me in a position where I DO because I know the details of which he speaks. I will respond simply: Marty is rewriting history (much of which he wrote himself in his earlier versions of events), recounting things that never happened and assigning motives to people that appear to be the fruits of his imagination. And he is laughably trying to create upset between me, Leah and Tony Ortega as if any of us would believe him. Beyond that I am not going to dignify his craziness with specific responses. And I still don’t have any information that sheds light on WHY he is doing what he is doing.
That being said, I sincerely believe Marty should seek professional help. He has lost touch with reality. He appears delusional and is convinced the spiders he sees all over the walls are real — and that it is his duty to earnestly explain his imaginary spiders to the world. I am saddened to watch it happening, wishing there was something I could do to help him, like he once helped me.
I found a video of Marty’s today. One of the ones when he was speaking out against the abuses of Scientology. Then I came across these. He seems to be a completely different person. Looking more into why Marty did this is weird because we have our speculations. The thing is he could have stayed quiet about it. Instead he did a pathetic collaboration if you could even call it that with Scientology. He betrayed the people who trusted him. Some of the people are the people he helped.
Marty, I really hope you haven’t started colluding with the COS. If so, was the thirty pieces of silver worth it Judas?
I have followed Marty since he started blogging, and have watched him go from Pro-Scientology anywhere except IN the church. I watched him get super upset and argue with anyone who said anything bad about the Tech, and allow anyone who wanted to go after that same “troll” go after them too.
He was never happier than when he was auditing and having people gush over him about how great he was and how he helped them. He loved it that Miscavige was pissed off that he was out of the Church and working with and helping SPs out here.
I watched him change his thinking, and then watched him veer off of Scientology because he had “seen the light”. He lost most of his base because of that and he never expected that. I think he expected them to all follow his lead and go with him wherever he was going with no questions.
Marty always came off to me as someone who wanted those around him to think like him, talk like him and he had to be the one that everyone looked up to and listened to. He was never really apologetic about the things he did and said to people while he was in “power” in Scientology. He would always get off the subject and ask to talk about something else.
I noticed another change after Marty wrote the book about him being a “warrior”. He started saying he did not blame Miscavige anymore about him screaming at people and hitting them,(What??) but the biggest change came after the lawsuit was dropped. Since then he has said and done things that have made alot of people think he was “back in the fold”, so to speak. And it gets worse all the time, he is now going after people he once stood beside and behind as friends. Anything to get his face out there again in front of people. Maybe to get back those who dropped him when he said he was no longer a Scientologist, I am not sure.
So this is what I think and it is my opinion alone: I think Marty Rathbun is a Narcissist who is only happy when people are looking up to him, hanging on his every word and doing what he thinks they should do and thinking what he thinks they should think.
I think the only reason Marty left Scientology to begin with was he had happen to HIM what just about every other Executive that got close to Miscavige had happen to them. He got punished, thrown under the bus because Davy’s bestest buddy gushed to him about how great Marty was. Davy could not stand that and Marty was no longer the “Golden Boy”. Marty could not handle THAT, he felt he was better than those already in the “Hole”. He could not handle being punished along with the people HE had put there for Miscavige. I do not think he wanted to leave Scientology at all, I think he HAD to leave it to save his own face.
Again, my opinion alone. I hope it does not make too many people mad.
Deb, your opinion makes sense and seems to answer some questions I had. Good insights.
Agreed.
Makes total sense. I agree.
YouTube Steve Mango
Thank God for Mike. Thank God for Leah and Tony and all they are doing.
What they are doing, coupled with the Glorious Internet, and the awfulness that is SCN, will eventually bring it down.
It will become a whisper tiny fringe, in the world, and in my own mind and life. Eminently forgettable and toothless.
Our heroic troika!
Bless them!
Marty needs help. I pray for him.
From the outside, it just looks like Marty is batshit crazy unfortunately. Poor guy….Scientology really messed him up. I’m a teacher and everyone knows that Scientology is a bad news cult, even kids! I can’t believe anyone is still involved.
Really sad and disappointing to see what has happened to Marty. I have followed his progress closely since his blog first started.
From day one you could sense a difference in Marty compared to other ex’s. He was less apologetic, more egocentric, less clear and transparent, more proud. When he wrote his memoirs he called himself a Warrior – still looking to assign strength and nobility to his narrative rather than accept the tragedy of his life choice.
He is a complex character who you can never really pin down on any subject. Straight answers are not his style unless he wants to give them. I have defended him so many times over the years from people who wanted more than he was willing to give. But he’s an obstinate, proud fellow who will only do things his way. However, I always hoped he was progressing, and his lovely wife and child seemed to offer him a light at the end of the tunnel.
My feeling is that due to his character type I describe, he was never fully accepted by the critic community. He hated the reviews Tony Ortega gave of his books, particularly “Warrior”. I think his current actions are an angry response to that fundamental lack of acceptance, and also in his eyes, recognition.
I think a lot of his anger is centred around Tony Ortega. Tony is a very strong character himself, who was willing and able to call Marty out when he felt the need.
I think he’s so angry that he’s been able to equate the critic community with the church, although this might simply suit the legal and financial decisions he’s decided to take, a justification if you will.
He knows full well that the CofS cannot be equated with the critic community. Sure, pro-Scientology comments are not appreciated and the tone is generally anti-Scientology. But….suggesting the RPF is anything other than thought control……REALLY???? No one buys that for a second.
Marty is betraying his friends, his cause and himself. He knows it, we know it and he knows we know it. Something must be terribly wrong. Either that or he’s a deeply unpleasant person.
I don’t disagree with anything you said, but I will my own opinion. I don’t think Marty ever really rejected the “church” teachings. I don’t think he can allow himself to admit he was wrong. He was a squirrel; although, at times a very hidden one.
I think davey boy offered him a boatload of money, no punishment, and have allowed him to pursue the bridge without payment or sec checks That’s what he really always wanted, and that’s what he got.
I heard all the rantings of Rathbun
Taking his orders from Top Gun
Inventing a troika
That’s sure to exploit ya
Selling out friends for some crumbs
I’m getting my bowl of popcorn and watching. This is the best soap opera I’ve ever seen. But it’s real. Unfortunately. So I’m a bitch. Sorry PTSD sucks. But this is bigger. We all want to live in peace and quiet. Who knows.
And I had assumed the Marty Rathbun was against Scientology…otherwise why did he leave? Even if Marty dislikes Leah and Mike, does he not believe what everyone is saying about Scientology? As far as the show being scripted….well, of course it’s scripted….everyone has to know what to say in advance….it’s television….you can’t go on television all willy nilly without direction. It sounds like Marty is now pro Scientology and the only thing that makes sense to me is that Miscavige offered him some big money to swim in the other direction. Just sayin’.
Docuseries and documentaries are not scripted. We have never scripted or rehearsed anything on the Aftermath.
But even if the show was scripted, why would it matter? What would be wrong about knowing what you are going to talk about? Also, so what if Mike and Leah are getting paid. People have to earn a living. People have families to support. Why would that even be an issue? I find that what Marty is doing is that Scientology thing where he attacks the people in the series and is not addressing the issues on the abuses of Scientology. If Marty was able to discredit the stories that people are telling about their abuse, then maybe that would make him more credible. He can’t do that because the stories that are being talked about are true. He’s just talking about things that don’t matter in terms of exposing Scientology. I still have to wonder if David Miscavige offered Marty money to try and discredit the series.
any and all of the attacks against Leah and others about “doing it for money” or “being paid” is the most ridiculous thing to try to hurl.
scn, the only road to real spiritual freedom for mankind, all eternity, blah blah blah… costs by the hour.
Intensives of auditing, sliding scale, buy it now! before the price rise! You need fix up? Sign an OPEN INVOICE in qual for “help” at the tripe the usual rate.
only degraded beings whimper for freebies. Uptone causative beings worthy of help PAY.
…
ANY whining about possible pay-outs is just nuts in spades.
I agree they shouldn’t be called payouts, more like refunds for their hours upon hours of being in Scientology and wasting years of their lives. I bet anyone that actually does receive a “refund” would take a “refund” of their years being brain washed and being away from their families over any type of payoff. You can’t put a price on that.
Donna Brown, Of course David Miscavige offered Marty money to try and discredit the series.
That seems clear to me. And it could also have been a “we’ll call off the dogs if you swim the other way…” or “we’ll not harass your son or wife if you swim the other way…” So there is the threat that they will call off as well as the reward of money if he settles and speaks out for DM and the church.
And to make a big deal of anyone making money on the Leah Series is the pot calling the kettle black. DM makes money off the flock he fleeces with no paper trails and no oversight by the government and no taxes paid. DM is accusing others of his overts of money for no exchange, via Marty’s videos. Marty is DM’s mouthpiece now, mainly to keep the sheeple in. The rest of the world sees through all this.
Reply
I was just looking st interviews with Marty Rathburn and his wife. At this time she was suing the church for emotional distress and requesting a restraining order too. Now it sounds like Marty Rathburn has been forced to change his tune against the cult. Is this what is happening?
No one knows if Marty “is being forced” paid, or just totally has lost his mind. Only Marty knows for sure.
And, apparently, that is doubtful!
perfect summation.
“Based on the accumulation of whatever wisdom I’ve been able to retain during that journey, I can assure you there is no finer man to be found than her husband Michael John Rinder. He is a man of conscience molded in a crucible of adversity that few are adventurous enough to ever experience. Few have lived a life of such selfless devotion and weathered as many vicissitudes as Mike. And of those few, I am unaware of any who came out the back end with so much love, hope and tolerance as Mike. You could not find a better father for your grandchildren.”
Marty Rathbun: https://archive.is/atfW5#selection-199.165-199.724
When DM says “Marty, how much is it going to take to make this all go away?” everything changes…. Oh, by the way… going to need you to do a few things for me before we send you the final transfer to your new Caymans account….
Thank you for posting that link! I read all of the posts. I did not know Marty gave away Mike’s wife or was part of that day! Beautiful pictures Mike!
What the hell happened to THAT Marty??
What happened in four years???
Mike ~ your heart must hurt to lose such a friend and for that I am sorry.
The cos makes folks turn on everyone! There are posters there on that link that are in a different mindset now.
So sad.
Also. Does someone somewhere have the power to send that link to Marty?
He needs to read that. Come back down to earth.
I did
I too am sad and worried about Marty. My observations of Marty over the years since he left is that he is lacking remorse. To me, it seemed he was always more angry and upset over what happened to him personally (which was a lot… enough to make anyone break down) than what he had done to others as well. How dare you do this to me!? was the feeling I got from him and that it hurt him to lose the power he had once attained. Maybe Marty could not connect to his personal entanglement of it all, leaving remorse an emotion too difficult to deal with. I can’t imagine the mind fuck Scientology conducts on it’s members and don’t blame Marty for this sad flip flop. Maybe his mind has fractured, or maybe he wants his own branch of Scientology he can control. Either way, he needs help and Mike is there for him if and when that time comes.
I’m not & never have been a scientologist, but I’ve always loved Leah Remini & when the show came out of course I was going to watch every single episode & I’ve been intrigued & fascinated by this cult. I knew or heard of the cult well before any of this & was always intrigued. I watched Going Clear a year or so ago on HBO & it just had me more curious about this cult. So as a non-scientologist, I promise you that I’ve been super obsessed with learning everything there is to know about this cult & I know the main characters now, I understand their processes, the OT levels, so much so you would think I was actually a scientologist. I spread the word to anyone & everyone I meet the factual information about the huge IRS scam, where they had employees of Paulette Cooper’s psychiatrist sneak in & steal her medical records to spread lies bc her book was exposing their horrific policies. They had planted a man in her life that moved in with her & stole her stationary to send threatening bomb threat letters to the government just so she would be so inundated with lawsuits she’d have to give up like most but she fought through & by the grace of someone watching over her, that IRS raid finding the notes of scientologists that documented everything they had been doing to her & she was able to get out of jail. I watch Youtube every single day just to see if there’s new information to hear. I just wish there was something as a non-scientologist that “we” could do to help. I know I’ve spread the word in detail & I’ve had so many family & friends that come over binge watch Season 1 of Leah & Mike’s show, they are always so intrigued they want to see Going Clear & I always see to it they watch it & we’re just completely passionate about helping. I even went to Clearwater for my birthday recently just to see the building. We made sure to stop by it on the way to our hotel & again on the way back.I don’t know Marty on a personal level as a lot of you, but I think he is just unstable, he can’t stay focused. He’s very troubled and if he would actually get on medication and see a real therapist, they could help with his struggle of what seems to be multiple personalities or possibly severe bi-polar. I watched the Not my Scientology Movie & watched Marty get emotional, but I was understanding bc this is not for the faintest of hearts. He broke up families, he hurt so many people, he had to ruin lives & I hope he has a conscience of that & has remorse, but these recent videos aren’t showing anything but that he’s legit – Mentally troubled! Poor man. Enough of my ranting, but I just wanted to commend you, Mike & Leah, & all the ex-members that shared their stories with the world & are fighting to save more families & bring families back together. I have a feeling that because of you & A&E this will truly have an impact on any future the “church” has.
I just keep wondering when David Miscavige dies, or discards the body he’s in to externally explore a new OT level…. who will be the #2? Tom Cruise? From what I can tell, Miscavige has no intentions of ever having a #2 because they would have to be in on the whole scam that he has kept from the insiders that can’t access information or else they are in trouble. Anyway, thanks for sharing everything & if there’s anything people like me could do to help, please let me know. I respect you Mike & everyone involved with this program, but I am bias to Leah. 🙂 Everyone in my family says I’m just like her from King of Queens & I’ve always just felt very connected to her & we have the exact same birthday which just past.
I was born into it and just your comment by itself was very helpful and gives me hope. Thank you.
That makes me smile. I’ll keep fighting on the outside. Wishing you the best. Hugs!
Same to you. Thank you.
Omg! You sound like me. Too a tee!
I have learned so much, everything actually, from Tony and his blog and book too leah and her book and shows and all the movies!
And I spread the word against cos.
Tony, Mike and Leah. Don’t ever change?
I see that there are other non-scientologists out there by your comments and i think as passionate as we all seem to be about spreading the word and really knowing and understanding as best we can as outsiders, I have to believe somewhere down the line we will have helped even one person.
I am still very interested in any suggestions on how else we could make a difference.
I wrote the FBI branch in L.A. as a concerned citizen…don’t know if it helps. I wonder if I’ll even get a reply.
I will write the FBI and ask why arent they doing anything to protect these innocent children from being kept out of schooling simply to learn about a psycho cult that could ultimately ruin their chances after they finally leave the church bc they have no education. Used to be a High School Diploma was good enough for some jobs but now at least an associate’s degree is equivalent to a HS diploma. Its not legal to have children out of school receiving no education but Scientology. That alone is worth investigating you’d think. Worth a try. Stay tuned hopefully it does help.
I too was never in but years ago I had to research Alistair Crowley and that’s when I found out about a lot of the things LRH did before Scientology & how he got it started. Then I watched Going Clear when it first came out & was LIVID about what this “church” does to people. So when I found out about Aftermath I was good and primed for it. I’m like you & tell everyone of the abuses this organization commits every day & my brother and I have also started boycotting anything in Hollywood (movies & tv) that stars a scientologist. But I too would love to know what else I can do. I know the most damaging to the “church” are the testimonies by all the brave ex-members that share their stories, but there MUST be something the public can do. If anyone has any ideas I would be very grateful.
WOW!!!!……I could have written your comment. I too am a ‘never in’ and I also boycott anything in hollywood that involves scientology actors. (just the sound of tc’s name makes me ill).
I wrote to my congressmen re: the IRS issue. Calling scientology a church is like calling north korea a church…….both run by evil tyrants for their own gain while their people SUFFER.
Classy response, Mike. You are the real deal.
Just now stumbling upon this blog as I search for info on the cold case death (murder?) of Marty’s brother. Marty is my uncle. Well, my moms cousin. Just reading, and trying to understand…I have ZERO contact with him, and never have. I have memories of him visiting when I was a teen, and bringing over those weird books with valcanos and stuff on the front. Anyway, this is all very fascinating to me. Thanks.
I think the human mind can only handle so much. Marty mind seems to have snapped. I also think he’s always had a fragile mind that’s how he got sucked into the church in the first place. Obviously u have to have a strong will to speak out against them and deal with the harassment . Marty I don’t think can do it. He can be swayed extremely easily to where he will go against ex members to get the harassment to stop. I feel sorry for him in a way. Thankfully I have always had a strong mind and nobody can sway me into doing or believing things . I am a free thinker for sure.
Sad to agree, finally. If he gets interviewed by the media, I’ll take a listen. But I’ve given up. If he lives 10-20 more years, maybe he will straighten up, but this last video is him eaten up by the methods he did on his old job. He’s got a long ways to go, if ever, I see now.
That’s what being Miscavige’s number 2 for so long does to your mind, and then following all Hubbard’s OSA/GO tech, it ate his brain up. He’s his own op eating himself up.
Thanks for posting this Mike. Had been wondering what your position was on this since your site link vanished from his. It is indeed sad. His blog was the main stable source of anecdotal evidence for me before and after my declare so I do feel indebted to him for providing that platform, the value of which we should never underestimate or be ungrateful for. (I’ll never forget one particular post called, ‘I’m Ulf And I’ve Had Enough!’)
But his recent ramblings have left me firstly rather bewildered and now just incredibly disappointed. I stopped watching them after the third one through boredom I think. That and my BS threshold being quite low (even though I don’t have to go events anymore.)
I’d wish him and his family all the best if he took the pay-off and had decided to quietly enjoy being a father. But turning on your allies in this way is indeed reprehensible and your response by comparison has been remarkably restrained and classy – which says a lot about you.
His credibility, on the other hand, has just taken a serious nosedive. And entirely self-created by all accounts.
I note too that, although his last book, The Scientology Reformation, is still available to buy via Amazon, he is oddly no longer promoting it on his own website alongside his others.
Someone down thread alluded to the days of the fishing videos Mike made with Marty. I miss those days too. Compared with what’s happening now, I miss them a lot.
Maybe when Marty’s old and in a rest home, some sober memories might pop out.
It seems to me Mike that you think before you speak now lol before you were off the chain!
Thank you for being such a great example of dignity and still a true friend, words can throw you off balance make you have a whole scenario going on inside your mind of what you want to say back to this person to throw him off balance, things can get ugly very quick!
Mike you and Leah are truly doing good deeds, at least you’re trying to make a difference and help people, I say prayers for you, Leah even Marty, I pray for safety for all of you and your staff and families,
Someone someday is going to knock DM down several notches, he’s not special he’s no better than anyone on this planet,subject change what’s being done about his sister being busted with drugs?can she redeem herself? Marty seriously needs help,he’s stuttering all over the place, his mouth is dried out he’s sweating, I bet DM and muffins are totally coaching him or making him use a teleprompter hmmmmm?
Mike: Thank you for addressing this difficult subject. Your comments are measured and charitable. Your humanity shines through.
Marty is clearly a tortured person and the combination of speculation, judgement and condemnation that are apparent in some of the comments, less here than on other sites, is unfortunate. It is not helpful to just dismiss him as a nutjob as Susan does. The lines between being “normal”, “insane” or a “genius” are not firmly drawn and any of us can cross these lines under circumstances we cannot control.
I wish Marty, Monique and their child all the best in healing from the damage resulting from association with the dark world of scientology.
What a mess. I was more or less willing to ride along and give Marty the benefit of doubt as I watched his little video bits. That is – right up to the point where he obviously and deliberately criticized and 3P-ed Mike, Leah & Tony; that’s where he alienated me. Was that move part of a “contractual” subject or requirement of a pay out? I don’t know but it would certainly be consistent with it from DM’s perspective.
But for whatever reason, Marty is clearly attempting to generate friction and distrust between the three of them. Who would require him to do that? I can only think of one individual.
He has, IMO, “sold his soul to the devil” and put himself in a very low condition… He was once in charge of “ethics”. I wonder if he still remembers anything about “conditions of existence”.
I’m honestly in no position speculate on a pay-off or such like but judging from his obvious condition, it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to say there was one and that it required Marty to perform certain “dead agent” actions on himself as a previous critic of DM as well as others. Although not articulated specifically, that does seem to be the tacit implication overall. At least that’s how I see it…
To walk a mile…
I can’t deny there is a part of me that would love to sit down with Marty and find out what the hell is going on.
I am hard pressed to see any other motive than a pay off or being blackmailed.
For his family’s sake if nothing else, I hope it’s the former.
If it’s the latter… well…
Marty if you are reading this and it is the later… a good friend of both of ours once told me the only way to deal with bullies is to not let them bully you.
Just saying.
“I’m honestly in no position speculate on a pay-off or such like but judging from his obvious condition, it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to say there was one and that it required Marty to perform certain ‘dead agent’ actions on himself as a previous critic of DM as well as others. Although not articulated specifically, that does seem to be the tacit implication overall. At least that’s how I see it…”
My same analysis, Scn911. Btw, I like that “username”, haha (Scn911); very applicable.
To expand on your comment above, I took a look at some of Rathbun’s videos, and they all certainty have a “feel” as those videos put out by the CofS to discredit others. Notice how professional the video set up and their quality are. And instead of those YouTube videos like from Sheldon’s, for example, where the person is directly facing the camera that they have set up, Rathbun is talking as if he was directing his communication to a interviewer/reporter in front of him, but slightly to the side, like Tom Cruise’s videos or other videos from church parishioners defending DM.They both have the same quality to them. They look very professional with high standards as the ones the CofS creates.
In the video (2nd video, I guess) where he is trying to “discredit the source” (Lawrence) – a well known “Handling Black PR” LRH technique – he is not only discrediting Lawrence and his sources, he is ALSO presenting an entirely different portrait of LRH which is benefiting Hubbard. By Church’s standards (which are delusional anyway), Rathbun is doing a “by-the-book” use of the tactics of the OSA manual.
What we have here is the ex 2nd in command of Scn, someone highly trained on the OSA manual of operation and drilled on it to perfection, strategizing a specific of short series (shorter videos are best used in dead Agenting strategies) of “Dead Agenting the critics” videos covering ALL bases – meaning, covering all the most effective and latest lies-exposing PR champaigns against Scn (Leah, Gibney, Louis, Ron, Dany Lambert, Lawrence and Ortega’s covering of them).
If we analyze the time-line of Rathbun’s blog posts, we would see how two years ago, more or less, he adopted his “middle way” (a GROSS misunderstanding of a concept from Buddhism, btw) approach to the subject of Scn buy not supportting NEITHER side. Then came his backing out of the court case. His disagreements with Louis. And suddenly, he is basically changing ALL his previous public statements, and adopting a pro-CofS/DM approach.
He seems to be following exactly a “Liability formula” where he is EXPECTED to “Deliver and effective blow to the enemies of the group you have been pretending to be part of despite the personal danger”. If we still remember our days in staff, we know how insistent the E/Os were with such a step being “effective” from the viewpoint of the group itself.
In an angry reply to “dear Marildi”, Rathbun told her – among other things – something in the line of him wishing to do a “house cleaning before leaving and setting the records straight”, which for me it can be translated into something like :
“I made a deal with DM – a secret one that even his lawyers don’t know about; that’s why he HAD to fire them FIRST – and got millions out of it. And all I have to do is to follow the Liability formula, dissociate myself from ALL the critics (“clean the house”), close his blog (erase its contents probably), go to live some place else away from the noise, and NEVER to speak again against the CofS or Scn, and just keep my mouth shut, and live happily ever after”.
I know that it sounds like a wild speculation, but if we connect all the dots, the line inevitably leads to the above conclusion. At least for me, it is the most probable explanation.
Not a wild speculation
Bingo
You nailed it
? 😉
I just hope that he gets his end of the bargain and gets left in peace, after selling his soul to the devil. I think anyone could snap after being put through what he has by the cherch, or maybe he thought this was the only way to protect his son and wife from further harassment.
“I just hope that he gets his end of the bargain and gets left in peace, after selling his soul to the devil.”
I understand your compassion, Sherry, and that’s very noble of you. However, there is no peace where it was bought with lies and deception. Peace can ONLY be found from decency, compassion, honor, integrity and truthfulness.
“I think anyone could snap after being put through what he has by the cherch…”
Only the weak-minded does, Sherry. Rinder was put through a LOT more than Rathbun, and he never turned to the “dark side”. In fact, such harassment only made him stronger and more determined. And you can find dozens of such examples as Finder’s form other ex Scientologists.
“…or maybe he thought this was the only way to protect his son and wife from further harassment.”
If that’s was the case, backing out of the court case – which he had ALREADY done – would have been more than enough to “protect” his wife and son. So if he decided to continue then only two scenarios are possible, IMHO :
1. DM found some dirty loundry on him, a VERY reputational one, or
2. He was in DESPERATE need of money and felt that he DESERVED to be paid for all that he had gone through with Scn. And as he had ALREADY distanced himself from both the Indies and the antis, then he was already mentally “prepared” to sell anybody.
I don’t incline towards #1 above because, knowing the incredible investigative powers of the CofS that can hire the best PIs of the world (and the most dirty and unscrupulous ones), if Rathbun had any reputational laundry, the CofS would have known about it long ago, and would have used it against him. At least, that’s my take on this. Highly speculative, I know, but a very probable scenario.
I’m sad to see these videos and can only imagine how coerced they were. I’m thinking Marty got out-bullied and heavily forced to do this stuff. Cameras set up–Check. Script–Check. Person coaching him–Check. Typical third party activity–Check. Minute by minute compliance reports to Mi$cavige–Check. Typical dead agent statements–Check. Typical invalidation of the source–Check. Painful and not-so-typical going back on his very own statements–Check. Any ex who’s been around a while sees clear through these. Marty doesn’t look like himself and does not look happy in his own heart.
And several people have already come forward to say “Hey…that’s NOT what happened.”
All that said, I am another one who was greatly helped by Marty after realizing my head was really messed with living so long in the stupid sea org. I had escaped and after a while I was not adjusting but I thought I was. Scary. He was one of the best auditors I ever had, and I had some really good ones where I was posted. He didn’t do the GAT stuff–he did the older still-LRH versions of auditing. It was great.
His wife is such a sweetheart and I can see why she got furious when the squirrelbuster jerks and all the insane harassing started. And she was pregnant and was never left in peace by these psycho jerks. I hope this is part of a longer plan where they come out of this OK. And the cherch sinks farther down into its slimy stinky sewer system. Eventually there will be no more gasping for air for them and I hope Marty is not one of those drowning.
“I hope this is part of a longer plan where they come out of this OK. And the cherch sinks farther down into its slimy stinky sewer system. Eventually there will be no more gasping for air for them and I hope Marty is not one of those drowning.”
Thanks for sharing your views, Gato Dojo. As much as I desire the best for Marty – as I do for any human being – the fact is that when one betray our honor and integrity, only pain and losses follows it. This “plan” of his, is only a very foolish one. He probably thinks that it will help him to finally disconnect from Scn and the CofS and bring him peace of mind, but I assure you that it won’t be the case. Karma is a bitch, 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJp9Mv5VOVk
https://silviakusada.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/attitude-amd-conduct-in-scientology-transcript.pdf
*****
Consider Marty in the role of “the plantiff” and then read the following:
*****
And they’re not accepting responsibility otherwise, but they say,
“They say we are guilty. They say we have done something.”Now, what would be the immediate recourse, what should be their next action, and what should be the action of people who have
joined hands with the plaintiff?
What should be the action then of the defendants and the friends of the plaintiff7 Where should they
join hands? They should join hands in doing something to straighten out thesituation for the plaintiff, because if the plaintiff is casting himself in the role of the plaintiff, the least thing that is wrong with him is that he needs a little more ability to handle his own sphere of action.
That’s the least thing there. But that certainly would be in—a little bit in error, wouldn’t it, hum?
So any way we look at it in Scientology, but not in human relations, the most sensible thing to do would be to give the plaintiff a hand. This guy says he’s been hurt, he’s screaming to high heaven, let’s try and give him a hand.
In view of the fact that he’s in Scientology the probability is that he actually has been hurt. See? He probably—that’s the—the probabilities are very in favor of that. And he wasn’t just standing there screaming, or she isn’t just standing there screaming and saying, “I’ve been done in,” just to stand there and say, “I’ve been
done in,” see.
From this viewpoint at least something bad has happened.
People then should just simply say—the friends of this person and enemies alike simply get together and say, “Well, let’s see—how can we straighten this out I think the best thing to do would be to back up the truck and get it off of her leg ” Get the idea?
Lots of guesses, most of which are predicated on the idea that he’s either crazy or turned. Very few people giving anything approaching the benefit of the doubt. No one will know until they reach him and interestedly ask lots and lots and lots of questions in a “curious about” fashion with a determination to find out what’s really going on.
One or more of these guesses might be right, but I’d really like to hear from someone who reaches out to him. Ideally that person would be an old friend who he already trusts and who is a good communicator and has not already made his mind up on what’s going on.
Another voice of reason speaks. Thank you, Dan.
“Lots of guesses, most of which are predicated on the idea that he’s either crazy or turned.”
Right, because based on his KNOWN behavior those are the only two explanations that EXPLAIN the behavior.
You have a different theory that holds water?
Dan, from what I’ve heard, people have tried reaching out – and have been told that he “doesn’t care” (though apparently he must still, about some aspect) and then, basically, to go away. I appreciate your ideal of reaching out in communication, which I share, but he seems to be at a point where that is no longer possible.
You may have the luxury of equanimity because you have no skin in the game, but I assume you can also have compassion for, say, those desperate for answers, because Rathbun has their confidential information.
Dan Locke, I still wonder how long ago he did these videos, it must have been after the final episode of the First Season, and before this second season.
I wonder who is running his site, it might be someone who’s on this op that messing his mind up into his old self as boss over these devious Hubbard OSA/GO tech ops which he excelled at.
He comes across especially in this part 2 video on Leah’s show, as consumed and locked into his old RTC ops mindset.
If he’s on vacation, he might not even be monitoring his site, and someone else is running it.
He might be off on vacation, he needs it. His brain is fried with his old job mindset on full auto in these videos. Hope these were some months ago, and he’s out fishing, and OSA is maintaining his site for him, LOL.
I believe Marty was “captured” and “tortured” Scientology style, which can be far worse than physical torture like they did by invading his home for so many months…and now he suffers from Stockholm syndrome where he “loves” his abusers. Too bad the spiritual technology of Scientology is used for evil purposes.
The tech was DESIGNED for evil by Hubbard. Nothing else you CAN do with it Robert.
Hey Mike, the proof that Marty’s videos are produced by the Church of Scientology is crystal clear. I’m a filmmaker myself and spend a lot of my time setting up shots, lighting etc… and after having watching Martys latest ramblings I couldn’t help but take notice of the sudden upgrade in quality and production value of his videos. And after having gone back and watched a few Scientology produced videos, its clear to me that they are using the same setup, the same lighting and the EXACT same framing. Im pretty sure they also use the exact same camera and lense too. Probably the same director/producer behind it.
But if this is true, what is the motivation behind it? Because Marty is also still promoting his more extreme anti scientology stuff… so if he is now controlled by Scientology, wouldn’t his extreme anti scientology stuff suddenly vanish from his site?
Laurence, that’s interesting speculation, but I just simply can’t go there myself unless I see more evidence. Like you said, it makes no sense why the anti-scientology stuff is still there along with the CofS hate site on him.
Someone on Ortega’s theorized that the purpose of these videos could perhaps be that he’s not the “central hero” in the critic community anymore. Whether or not that’s the case, I have a huge problem with him attacking others for “recycling the same old stuff that’s already out there”. He seems to think that repeating stuff is unproductive. I STRONGLY disagree. I’ll copy/paste what I wrote on Ortega’s a little earlier regarding my thoughts about that, which better sums up my feelings……
Perhaps it’s nothing more than hubris. However, for him to chastise people for “recycling” things that have already been said, is missing one of the most important points. Yes, I’m sure to many folks here who have been following this topic for years, these stories may start sounding like the “same old, same old”.
However, one of the main goals is to INCREASE AWARENESS. Attacking someone with such a high profile like Leah, who can use her celebrity status to use her huge megaphone to get the message out, is ridiculous. At the end of the day (with all due respect to everyone else), Leah was the initial link that got me interested in this subject, thanks to me being a huge King of Queens fan.
That led me to Mike’s blog, then here, both places where I have met many former Scientologists and other never-ins who are just as passionate about stopping the abuses of this church and the devastation it brings to the lives of so many.
All of these “recycled” stories by our beloved “Troika”? Thank God for them, because I’m STILL learning so much about this that I was unaware of. Leah and the show she produces was the main catalyst for a lot of us to become curious, then interested, then passionate about speaking out. And the websites of Tony’s and Mike’s, while they may have a lot of “stuff that has been repeated ad nauseum”…..well, I haven’t heard a lot of it, and I’m sure others haven’t as well, so it’s truly “news” to me.
If you want to increase awareness, you MUST find a way to get the message across to more people to get them emotionally invested to seeing the end of this nightmare. Otherwise, we become nothing more than a damn echo chamber. If that happens, then what the hell are we even fighting for anymore?
I totally agree. And, I took the same path as you…from Leah to Mike……and then too Aaron and Tony. I enthralled!
I asked on Marty’s latest “Troublemaker” post: “Is SMERSH also a funder of the ASC?”
My post may not make it past moderation: we may never know!
This is my 2cent worth on Marty.
I personally think that Marty, knows without any shadow of doubt that is friends (being the intelligent beings that they are) would see through what he is doing.
This is what I think he is doing.
1) He knows, the dead agenting he is doing will hurt no one (exept himself, he knows and he is sacrificing himself to the end on this)
2) He has entered into (Hopefully) a big deal with the midget and is getting paid hansomely for ALL the hard work and BS he had to put up with over the years in scio. which he richly deserves.
3) In the undercurrent, He begs for our theta understanding and forgivingness, and tells us he is about to bow out for good, while at the same time taking and weakening the enemy by taking away some of their energy.
4) He is doind it in such a way that only a very few will truly understand his personal sacrifice.
If this is the case, thank you Marty for all the hard work and horrible hardship you had to put up with LRH’S Mania’s and his mini me, over many years.
Come back (if you want) when you are ready I and hopefully the other bloggers do understand and are very forgiving.
All seems to make sense right up to the part about how he is doing it all for such a heavy personal sacrifice.
I think it is called ‘pay me enough and I’ll say and do anything you ask.’ Yep, that requires lots of sacrifice alright, especially of the personal variety.
Amen to that ,he’s stuttering alot in the videos almost like if I don’t get it right I don’t get paid, the man simply couldn’t stand the heat inside the kitchen he’s been standing in for at least the past five years, take care newcomer ?
I’m with you Mike, and Leah 100% Marty is a nut job
Too much stress from many directions , both external and internal, over too long a period can ultimately drive a person batty and to think and act irrationally. I can’t honestly say that it has never happened to me though I’ve been able to stand back from the cliff when I need to ( so far anyway).
In my opinion there is one person we can thank for triggering this sad series of events, Louis Theroux.
Just around the time the movie was first released in England we met Marty and found him extremely aggravated, emotionally in uproar and outright screamingly angry for apparently no reason, at least from what I understood at the time.
Then earlier this year I saw “My Scientology Movie”, having only heard about it before. To make it short, I have rarely seen a journalist manufacturing such a sly and hideous peace of character assassination. And that is what this movie is, even it has some comical backdrop in it.
From the discussion about the movies one can see a lot of people are not getting what this movie is about. They probably listen more to the words then observing what the camera actually does.
I do not know if Marty was fully analytical processing how he was used and attacked. But his emotions where right on for a person treated that way. I can imagine that these emotions clouded his judgement and still are clouding it.
There is so much more to the personality of Marty as Theroux decided to show in his movie. Apparently, his mission was to expose characteristics of a former cult member. The collateral damage did not matter to him. He deceived Marty about his true purpose and agenda and I believe this left Marty emotionally deeply wounded. The fallout is what we are seeing today.
To me this shows one thing. If decency and empathy do not rule ones actions the results will always turn sour and play into the hands of the criminal cult.
That is the thing I admire about Mike and Leah, they are not using people, they are their advocates and they do their show with class, decency and empathy.
We need less judgement and more understanding and the truth will always set us free.
I’ve never met Marty, nor really know him, but that’s when I saw a change in Marty, too – toward the end of that movie. I guess it remains to be seen just how far Marty will take this.
One thing that is known for sure is that the church of scientology is a cruel, toxic group.
Good post, GW.
I also felt Marty was mistreated on, “My Scientology Movie.”
Some exes liked the movie. It had its moments, but there were also moments of cruelty and degradation on Theroux’s part, like insisting Marty and others personally cheer, “Hip, hip, hooray” to L Ron Hubbard’s picture. Any compassionate person would have used actors. Apparently the purpose was to humiliate the exes and/or trigger past trauma. Treating them like rats in a science experiment, like, “I wonder what will happen if I make them do this?”
I would have probably puked under the circumstances, and imagine that would have delighted Theroux for getting strong emotion out of me for the movie if I had. Kudos to the exes who managed to maintain their dignity through some of those trials, because that’s what they were – trials. There is other emotion that comes across in that movie, too, though – Marty’s hurt at Theroux’s betrayals. Clearly, this was not the movie Marty was told it would be.
There is nothing kind about throwing exes back into their trauma and making them relive it. It’s not humane.
Only someone who sets himself apart and above others would do such a thing. It made me angry. The end did not justify the means. It never does.
I feel the same way.
Sheila and Gerhard. Nothing justifies Marty’s current behavior and lies he is making but I do have to agree with you. I felt that the Theroux movie was terrible and also felt that they purposely, and for whatever reason, wanted to humiliate Marty. I was actually pissed off when I watched it and to this day cannot understand the intent and logic behind this b rated show. If he was trying to expose the horrors of the hold as driven by DM and the evils of SCN in general, did he have to humiliate one of SCN’s biggest critics? Theroux is a dick.
Oh and did I mention it wasn’t even entertaining?
My eldest son came by the house and mentioned that he hadn’t seen it yet. I told him don’t bother, it was terrible.
I must say however I feel Marty could have rallied a lot of the “Anti SCN Cult” behind him if he would have contacted people like Mike and Tony. Heck he could have even written articles for his own blog and for Mike’s. I believe he would have had a lot of agreement & support. That sure beats deserting to the enemy that he fought against for a decade or more.
I saw the movie Gerhard. I did not see it the way you did.
First of all, nobody triggered Marty but himself. His anger and rage issues are his and his alone.
What I felt when I saw him get triggered at the end was his emotional damage surfacing from his years and years and years of harming people to save the planet.
I saw him as a victim of study tech. A victim of Ron’s brutality made into a para military black ops course that was word cleared, demoed and implemented on common citizens.
The film maker simply recorded Marty’s emotional explosion that came from Marty and no one else.
Adding that clip of Marty becoming enraged was totally in context. It showed the emotional damage of someone who lived a life of harming people “for the greatest good for the greatest number”.
My response to that clip was pity and compassion for a man who has not come to grips with his past actions.
The film maker did not attack Marty, the film maker simply revealed what happens to a person who placed their spiritual and mental welfare in the hands of a Malignant Narcissist.
Compassion for Marty was my response, not judgement of the film maker.
L Ron Hubbard taught his students to harm others with violence.
The students that acted out this Malignant part of Hubbard deserve our pity if they are unaware of this.
Mike on the other hand cried on camera. You can tell he feels deeply about these things. Mike is working it out by shedding light on the dark. Mike is taking responsibility.
Marty is still in trauma in my opinion.
I agree with you on the difference between Mike and Marty’s recoveries. For years I’ve posted that they are very different people. Certainly, there is no excuse for Marty doing what he is now, viciously attacking those who were his friends with half-baked lies and innuendo. Leah Remini?! Give me a break. She’s been nothing but a sweetheart in every way, she’s not even exSO but she cares about us. Who else does that? Karen DLC? Srsly? This woman is so gentle with so much heart, wild birds flock to her. She’s always been that way. She dedicated her life to be an auditor because she wanted to help people and she’s still helping people! It was a Class XII like her who once stood up to just about everyone in PAC to release me from the RPF. There was a time when tech people had courage to stand up to abuse. Karen DLC was one of those and never deserted her friends. Mike Rinder? For years he’s been a rock of gentle encouragement to others and helped exes all over the world and he’s never wavered from that and doesn’t brag about it, either. Lawrence Wright is top notch, too. These are good people. Only a deranged person could do an A=A=A and come up with some sort of conspiracy involving them just because Theroux was a jerk.
You mentioned in your earlier post that Marty restimulated himself in that movie. I disagree. Marty’s experiences and emotions were exploited. On camera. In a movie. That’s journalism at its worst, a sort of hideous, twisted, sadistic voyeurism. In Scn, some would call it Black Scn, when someone intentionally restimulates another in order to smash or humiliate the person. Look at the effect of it, it was not for Marty’s sake at all. He was told something else, he left himself open and vulnerable and was punished for it. Will he ever get to the point of trust and vulnerability again?
I don’t even like Marty and never have, never trusted him, always thought he was a bit ‘off.’ We’ve never been friends and I’ve seen him be mean, but I know it’s a fact he’s helped others after he got out, that others’ experiences were different than mine and that he’s not all bad. I know not everyone had the horrible experiences with Scn and COS that I had, either. But I know one thing very well – I know what it feels like when someone is doing their best to break you and I know what it feels like to be broken, too, and it isn’t about restimulating yourself.
I’m a fully out ex who has nothing to do with Scn, but I have friends I cherish and love who still dabble with it a bit and I don’t have a problem with it, as our friendship is bigger than that.
What Theroux did was wrong. Marty’s whole conspiracy theory thing is wrong. There are good people here and we get along just fine, despite our differences, cause that’s what people do. I hope Marty takes a long vacation and sorts his stuff out.
Sorry if this is too long, I guess i was overdue for a rant on this…
My same exact feelings and thoughts, Sheila, especially about how Louis USED Rathbun for his OWN journalistic benefit. Shame on him! Louis is NOTHING like the gentleman Gibney who, as far as I had been able to observe, has incredible manners, honor, compassion and dignity.
Go get em Sheila! That was a good one. Please don’t wait to long for another. You were quite articulate and made good points.
I guess I am seeing Marty through my own personal filters and values. My present practice and value is to blame no one for loosing my center.
I blame no one for my experience. When I loose my composure I always take it back to me. It’s something in ME that reacts.
This value and practice has helped me have a fabulous marriage.
So it’s my value. And maybe projecting that onto others is wrong.
But this practice is the essence of personal power. I am not responsible for others actions, but I am responsible for my reactions to them.
It is a liberating state of being.
Brian Thomas Lambert
Hiddenstory Productions
Mystic Romance Music
[email protected]
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVMGHQ3smxxV2DTXS67Pjrg/videos
consciouscreativity.ning.com/profile/BrianThomaslambert
https://soundcloud.com/hiddenstory
323-309-8593 cell
323-222-8555 studio
Sorry for the extra stuff. I copied and pasted too much?
Sorry for being hard on you, Brian.
Are you that Brian Thomas Lambert, the musical artist? Your work is extraordinary!
Hey are TC, you were not hard on me. You were giving me your point of view. You’re a good person. Thank you for being concerned:-)
Yes that is me doing the music.
Thanks Brian; you are good man too! 🙂 and great work on your music. Knowing that you are an artist, certainly explain a few things, 😉
Sheila, Leah IS ex-SO. FSO staff. Just thought I’d let ya know.
Brian, Marty’s is Marty’s no argument there.
The problem is Theroux was dishonest, instead of approaching the subject straight on he lied, deceived and tricked Marty. You can see it throughout the movie.
His movie was never about ‘re-enactment’ it was in a large part about entrapping and exposing Marty’s issues by telling him they need him as “consultant”. I found him cowardice and disgusting watching him toying with his subject.
If you did not see it, watch it again. It becomes all very clear when one considers which scenes did make it into the movie and who is in the focus of the camera. Nothing in the filming and editing is done “accidental”. Such a movie is planned out and often cut from 10 times the volume of raw footage. This was carefully hidden intent on the part of Theroux.
There are more folks like him who take with their selfish reasons away from the real issue: a criminal organization harming people and should be stopped doing so.
His Movie was a completely unnecessary and unhelpful piece.
If you are for years under the public eye and under pressure you may get so disbursed that you do not notice when people are toying with you. Often our emotions process an experience faster than our analytical capabilities become fully aware what is going on.
Marty tried to help the producers and Theroux and apparently did not find out how he as used. Marty’s emotional discomfort is visible throughout the whole process like some part of him knew what was going on, but he could never lay his finger on it.
So yes, Marty is Marty and he has his issues. And maybe he should have realized earlier, but then again most of us (Ex SCN) did not realize for decades how we were deceived and treated like mushrooms by dear Ron. So I’d rather stay humble.
Marty is now irrationally fighting back against people he feels have wronged him and Scientology critics seem to have become one single black ball in his mind. Too bad. I tried to warn him about the Anti Scientology Industry, which had its firsts blooming in Germany under Caberta. They are not in it to save people from harm, they are in it only for the most selfish reasons: money, attention grabbing and career.
Mike and Leah with their publicity are walking a narrow path and so far they are doing it graciously and convincingly for the good of the public.
Theroux and some others not. That is why I felt the need to point out whom we should thank for this irrelevant distractions by Marty’s recent posts.
Gerhard Waterkamp +1
Maybe if I saw the movie again, I may see your point of you. But I did enjoy the movie. And the outcome, was that I had more love and compassion for Marty. See my comments to Sheila above for my mindset.
Well I just saw the movie again. What I felt before was compounded in spades.
1) following L Ron Hubbard made Marty into a tragic figure.
2) what was triggered in Marty was soley his responsibility not Theroux’s
3) Marty has a crushing burden that gets triggered everytime Theroux brings up Marty’s past. It’s like someone punches Marty in the stomach. It happened so many times over the years on his blog. Someone would bring it up and Marty would go ballistic.
My take away from watching a second time.
L RON HUBBARD AND HIS SCIENTOLOGY IS A DANGEROUS SOCIETAL PARIAH. SO MANY GOOD PEOPLE MADE INTO CRAZY TONE 40 ZOMBIES.
THE TRAGEDY OF MARTY WAS A LEARNED BEHAVIOR. THE CRUSHING WEIGHT OF HIS PAST DEEDS TRIGGERS RAGE AND VIOLENCE IN MARTY.
HE CAN THAT RON HUBBARD AND HIS MAIGNANT NARCISSISM.
This thing needs to go the way of the dinosaur. There can be great evil in good intentions.
Stay the hell away from this THING!!
And………. pity and compassion is still my feeling about Marty.
His story is tragic. He can thank the words of Ron for his present unhappy life.
All true and well said.
-10
“Adding that clip of Marty becoming enraged was totally in context. It showed the emotional damage of someone who lived a life of harming people ‘for the greatest good for the greatest number’.”
I beg to differ, Brian. Adding that clip was not a very compassionate thing to do. I have no clue why a man like you so full of compassion, would say such a thing. You claimed that you was already “free” of Scn; Are you? Rathbun was an ESSENTIAL part of that group making the movie, and Louis used Rathbun’s knowledge and experience to show others what Scn can do to the mind of its members. And because he disagreed with him at the end and snapped, gave Louis the right to show it to the whole world? Just to show others how Scn can damage the mind of others? You got to be fucking kidding me!!
I am really sorry if I am coming this strong on you, but I ONLY do it because I care about you. I’ve been following you, and I see a lot of sanity and compassion in you. Don’t lose that due to unresolved issues with LRH/Scn. I know you know better than that. I’ve been there myself so I know the mechanics of it.
There is no doubt that Rathbun is walking down a very dangerous road. A road of betrayal to Truth and betrayal to himself. But that does not give us the right to be uncompassionate about the things we should be kinder about. That added clip should NEVER been part of the movie; period. Anything else is just plain lack of compassion, and I will not applaud it. Sorry if this upset you.
No upset. My favorite trait is authenticity. Thanks for sharing your views.
My reply to Sheila explains my attitude.
I really like your personality, Brian! 🙂
I saw Theroux’ movie. He did in a more subtle way what Tommy Davis and Mike R did to The BBC reporter, Anderson Cooper, in his show about the C of $. They (mostly Tommy) pushed Anderson Cooper until he broke. So in a way, what goes around comes around. I saw Theroux trying to get Marty to cough up some of his own overts committed when he was the henchman of David Miscavige. Or to show some remorse for his past actions. Marty did not cough up and did not show remorse. But it did miss his withholds and he exhibited classic Missed Withhold Phenomenon. That is where someone gets close to, or restimulates, your earlier bad acts, but does not succeed in getting all the details about what you did then. Hence it is barely missed and not gotten and can trigger huge upset, huge emotional flashback, huge anger, etc. That is why Marty snapped. I was not impressed with Theroux’ movie. But I don’t think we can fault him for trying to get not just the “I was victimized by DM and what an asshole DM is”, but also trying to get the other side of it, as in, “what did you do to contribute to that?” and “what was your part in that?” Because oftentimes the victim has in earlier times been the victimizer. That was all that Theroux was trying to show. But Marty snapped because of it and now he is wrong-targeting his friends and appears to have moved to the other side.
Very well said, Gerhard. Has MR mentioned Theroux? (I’ve only skimmed videos)
Not. Even. Once. Nope.
When I watched he Theroux movie, I watched it with the premise that it was about Scientology and its methods. Which it was. I totally did not see Marty in a negative light in that movie. If you watch it looking for evidence of “character assanation,” then of course you’re going to find it. However, the average person watching it isn’t going to do so.
You could watch classic Disney movies and find numerous examples of misogyny towards women if you wanted. However, you’d be overlooking the fact that the vast majority of them were about fairy tales. You know, made up stuff, that no one over the age of 7 believes is true.
It looks to me this is produced by the COS. Maybe by the Gold crew. Perhaps they are going to use these videos for some future course or something. He had his hair done and has make-up on. He may just be sitting in front of the camera babbling on different subjects until he’s covered everything the COS wanted him to.
This reeks of a settlement to me. Maybe he went to them and asked what it would take to stop the harassment. Maybe they went to him. Who knows.
I’m sure with a child now he doesn’t want the COS involved in his life anymore. I’m sure he’d like to do normal dad things with the kid like teaching him to fish and shooting hoops without Scn P.I.’s tailing him. I’m sure he’d like to take the family to Disney World without being met at the airport with Scientology harassment.
It has a liability formula color to it. You know the step where you have to “deal an effective blow to the enemy” part. Here the enemy is the made-up “Anti-Scientology Cult”, which is probably how the COS wants its detractors to be known as. Lame.
Steve Mango, who was in “”My Scientology Movie “, has a very insightful YouTube video on the whole matter:
https://youtu.be/imTKVxpCwC4
This is my first time posting a link so I hope I got it right. Still learning this computer stuff.
Thank you for the link 🙂 After watching Rathbun’s video I was torn by who/what to believe, but I really like Steve Mango. He seems like a real sincere young man and I also really like Mike and Leah. I am a ‘never in’ but I have 15 books in my Kindle, most of which were written by former scientologists….they can’t all be lying. My take on this…..psychopath miscavige drove rathbun crazy and has either blackmailed and/or paid rathbun to ‘divide and conquer’………..SAD!!!!
PS…….where can one watch “My scientology Movie”????
Several options listed here.
http://www.myscientologymovie.com/watch-at-home
Yes, that style of shooting, everything about it is either SuMP or Gold. Every nanosecond of it was seen and approved by Mi$cavige. The pressure in that room and all the surrounding activity had to have been cut through by a jackhammer. Pure insanity.
I don’t want to judge, nobody knows what happened with Marty in a last few years.
Maybe he became tired of this endless crusade and its cost, he is not young.
Maybe he needs money really bad (who don’t?).
Maybe he fills like the wave that he started passes him and bringing high new heroes. And man can be very jealous.
Maybe he made a deal with the church and they now both sure that they are using each other for the “greater good”.
Maybe he just want an attention or simply overwhelmed by his own demons.
I don’t know, but I don’t want to remember him like this.
SOB dangled a carrot in front of Rathbun that was just too tempting. Hey Rathbun, I know you’re sick of all this litigation. Drop the case and we’ll leave you alone. No more squirrel busting. Of course you have to do one or two little things for us in return …
SOB has withdrawn the hook but, being a sociopath, is still holding it there ready to sink in once more. Squirrel busting can resume at any time, at SOB’s pleasure. And Rathbun knows it and SOB knows he knows it.
There’s no money involved. Just the illusion of peace of mind for Rathbun. Unfortunately the whole scene with its conflicting emotional pulls, extending over many years, has worked his mind over so badly that he’s now descending into madness.
Just another layup basket on the scoreboard for Hubbard’s deranged and evil ethos. “All men are your slaves.”
I would say he got at least what Debbie Cook got. I think with Leah and Mike’s show and Ortega’s blog, Marty was no longer enemy #1 and that was enough for DM to say “Screw it. Let’s give him 10 or 15 mil but attach a bunch of strings.” They also were able to play on the fact that Marty was no longer the center of attention anyways. Rinder’s and Ortega’s blogs were 10 times more popular. DM was going to spend at least that 10 to 15m on lawyers and to have someone to use against the “Troika” was worth it for him. But of course he would make Marty do some liability or a to e type stuff before getting the second half of the payment.
A) Firing legal team while winning
B) Turning over emails to DM from Dani L.
C) Going from years of negative SCN posts to defending SCN.
D) Gold photo shoots. So he has no job and made nothing from his own blog, got nothing from the lawsuit but went from wearing walmart clothes to expensive suits with expensive media productions?
E) Flipflopped on literally everything he previously said.
Boy got paid. Big. He knew what Debbie Cook got. 10 to 15 million was nothing to DM. Got someone to go after Ortega, Remini and Rinder.
But why keep up the attack sites on Rathbun and the previous articles about DM? To make it look authentic. Don’t worry. After the videos are published, his whole blog will soon go away. They are all old and indexed anyways. It has to look real.
At least Marty and Mosey will never have to work again. And he made his contributions just as Cook did before she went away. DM didn’t want the lawyers who had been kicking his ass on a couple of cases already getting more money in their warchest so it had to be on the down-low.
Bob
+ 100 Bob
Excellent analysis, Bob!!
I feel badly for Marty. It seems to me that he has had a lot of mental illness in his family – his mom committed suicide, his two brothers were institutionalized for schizophrenia, which is in part heritable – and in fact that was the “ruin” that got him into the organization. He was trying to find an alternative to mental health treatment for his brother Bruce. And the organization really messed with his mind, as it does to everyone.
I am a “never-in” but my family member has been in for more than 40 years. I visited with him recently and he fell apart after I asked him a question, screaming, sobbing, saying he couldn’t take it any more, the bad things people on the outside said about his church and he couldn’t handle it from his family too. It looked like his mind was cracking open on the inside – some doubts that he could not admit, up against the dense brick wall in his thinking which prevents his admitting those doubts. His sobbing and grimacing seemed to be directly from this internal conflict.
I feel like Marty’s mind is pretty seriously messed up, with the internal conflict and confusion. But he covers it not with crying and carrying on, but with these videos which directly contradict what he has said in court depositions and interviews in the past. It is obviously so hard to reconcile. I just wish Marty peace and an end to the emotional pain.
I’ve just watched that last video. He sounds as though he’s been coached. To use a ‘Judge Judyism’ that goes something like this: If your looking up and having to think what to say, you’re not telling the truth.
Marty is effect of his own accumulated O/W’s.
The key point of introversion I observed was actually captured in Theroux’s movie, imho. When the Scn goons come to the studio where they are filming, they reference Marty’s son, and mumble things about “foster care”, to which Marty has an unexpected (and untypical for the Marty I knew) reaction. If I recall correctly, this is BEFORE the infamous attack at LAX that Marty posted, and the withdrawal of Monique’s lawsuit. (Correct me if I am wrong on this sequence.)
This withdrawal and self-censorship is a classic fear response. And while I have nothing but respect for MR as a person, even Hubbard stated “cases that have withholds will not clear” . This is a potential liability of operating on this planet. Even Pope Francis is contemplating ex-communication for members of organized crime families. Who has enough ‘altitude’ to hear a confession like that, and maintain equanimity and compassion? Something to meditate on.
I am in no ‘bum rush to judgement’ on this. Marty has done way more good and deserves support. Just my .02.
Mike, I am very sorry you are.going through this. It must be painful to watch someone you care about implode. You of all people know how stressfull and compromising fighting Scientology can be and what a toll it can take on a person. I don’t know if the cult has pulled a Bob Minton on Marty or if he just snapped, but it is awful to watch a man who was on a path of self improvement and redemption, yet again turn to the dark side. While I am mad at him, there is a part of me that cannot help but weep for Marty, a sad and tortured soul who seems damned to never find peace.
After looking at the video again, it appears to be identical to those “Who is” attack videos by the C of S. Stay tuned and I will bet you will see it on the whoismikerinder, whoisleahremini and whoistonyortega web sites! The church could not have set this up any better! It is full of generalities, half truths, lies and innuendo and also comes across as juvenile and 1.1 (not so covert hostility). And it’s been made to appear to be made by an individual who is independent from the church……. Not!
Thank you for taking the time to write this, Mike. You are a kind, honorable man. I, too, am saddened to see what is happening with Marty, but there’s no question about whom I believe in this matter. You were so incredibly kind to me when I was first out, and showed me great love and respect. I see your heart, and I appreciate everything you are doing.
Mike –
You’ve handled yourself SO respectfully in the past two years (? Assuming that’s about the timeframe since he started actively attacking former friends…) and my respect for you has only increased.
Today’s video incensed me, not only because it was so mean-spirited, but because not a BIT of it rang true! I respect how you’ve conducted yourself despite many questioning you and your motives when you came out and spoke publicly. I understand that would be difficult for anyone (Marty included). But the difference by how you’ve handled yourself and what you’ve done with your life vs how he has is sadly starkly different.
Yes he seems to need help of some kind, whether there’s a settlement involved or not. You’ve done SO much to be open, help others and have accepted a lot of crap from people who choose not to let go of your Scientology past (even as they want others to forgive and forget theirs)… yet you & Leah have stayed focused on the task in front of you and not dirtied your hands in the process.
Thank you! I wish all the best to you & your family and pray for you to be reunited with your older children ASAP!
The more I think about this Marty Rathbun situation, the more I think about a certain little man, deep into his scotch, cackling at what he truly believes are masterful strokes of sowing discord among his enemies.
David Miscavige, you are such a simple creature, so transparent and tactically disadvantaged.
This series of videos by Rathbun are only going to be believed by the dwindled scientology membership who are already “all-in” and who were never at any risk of leaving anyway.
So how is this masterful stroke of napoleonic brilliance going to play out?
Well, it is already happening. The “troika” is just laughing at you, those who liked Marty are sad to see another victim of scientology, and all of us who follow the demise of scientology are now even more strengthened in our resolve to see the IRS pull the exemption and the FBI put you on trial for your serious crimes against humanity.
SOB knows all that but he has Rathbun dancing on a string and that’s rewarding (to a sociopath).
Mike, thank you for addressing this issue.
I, and probably many others, have been wondering about this for some time. (Your position regarding Marty)
Your kindness, and measured response, to your former friend’s insanity is amazing.
I think this is about the greatest act of taking the high road I have ever seen.
Well done!
Mike, you are one VERY CLASS ACT! Your compassion for an old friend shines through, despite his dip into wild ravings.
Wait…what? I’m so totally confused. I thought Marty left the church. Wasn’t he on Leah’s show speaking against the church and all it’s craziness? I’ve watched a lot of stuff on the web since “Aftermath” aired on A & E, so maybe I’m getting him mixed up….I thought he was one of the guys David M. had abused. This is all so icky. Whatever Marty is doing, I thought Mike’s comment was compassionate…. but what the hell is going on???? Pleeeze ‘splain Lucy! Can someone enlighten me?
Marty was abused, spent time in the ‘hole’, left $cn, helped numerous others escape and counseled many others, sued and then rescinded a lawsuit against $cn, and now has done an about face to the confusion of everyone (except for Miscavige). Just the jist of what has happened. Who really knows.
Years of psychological pressure from squirrel busting and law suits have worn Rathbun down. Now Miscavige is turning him back to the dark side.
It’s the fourth movement of the symphony of mindfuck that has afflicted him from the moment he walked into the CoS.
Mike….I would like to thank you once again for allowing me to post here….as a “wog/never-in.” I have the highest regard for what you are doing…along with Leah and Tony and to all of the former scientologists who have come forward and told their own personal stories….it takes guts….and what I read here sometimes brings me to tears…..such immense personal sacrifices….families lost, lives lost, friends lost, abuse, abortion….the list goes on and on.
As far as Marty goes…..we are missing major pieces of his own personal puzzle. We simply don’t know the WHY of it. And we might never know. You can speculate endlessly. I see someone who has lost their way.
I am sorry that he feels the need to try and pull you, Mike, and Leah, and Tony down this rabbit hole…all I see is you three attempting to make a Genuine difference in people’s lives…..and putting the TRUTH out there for the world to see.
You are truly making a difference…..continue on your path….keep pulling others out of the darkness and into the light.
Yours….. OverTheBridgeTPA
Marty on SeriusXM radio
He praises the book and the movie Going Clear
He calls Scientology homophobic
He equates Scientology with the mafia and organized crime
He says Scientology uses psychological warefare
I actually got sad listening to this, This is the Marty I honored and respected.
WHEN MARTY WAS THE SEEKER OF TRUTH
https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmentertainment/marty-rathbun-blows-the-lid-of-off-scientology-in-his-new-documentary
I really want it to be true that the language Rathbun’s using, which is ludicrous even for the Cult of Scientology (which is not something I ever thought I’d say), is intentionally so juvenile so it will be obvious to us that he doesn’t really think the things he is saying. But it’s probably just that I feel sad that he would feel he has to do this after all the good that Mike Rinder and Leah Remini have done and are continuing to do.
Org-rat 1003, I read a further comment you made below and would love to chat with you. In light of what you said, I am going through the process of querying my own auditing “wins” and I know it would be extremely helpful if I could consult with you about this. Your comments about this absolutely jumped out at me. I don’t know if you’re even going to see this reply, but if you do you can contact me at [email protected]. I’m sure I can easily allay any suspicions (if you have any) that I might be connected to the church.
Paul Baumgarten, Thank you very much for your kind words in response to the comment I made. I need some time presently but I hope to contact you regarding the subject if I am able.
I’ve never personally met Rathbun, and I never participated in his blog as I always felt a strange vibe coming from him, though I can’t explain exactly what it is. It is something I feel when I sense that someone is not being honest or is not being genuine. That’s what always kept me away from his blog. Notice how I have participated in almost every other blog except his.
Even though I not always agreed with everything that Rinder posted, I have never felt dishonesty or a lack of being genuine from him. And the way that Rinder has ALWAYS respected and supported the Freedom of Speech right for EVERYBODY here – for ex(es), Indies, and for Never-ins EQUALLY – says a LOT about him. Just that fact alone, says enough for me. And the fact that he have been able to EASILY defend himself from nothing less than the mighty Church of Scientology, is enough evidence of a good heart. It means that he MUST be someone with a great heart, otherwise, he would have been history decades ago! I know that he knows this to be true. He would not have stood a chance if his intentions would not have been honorable towards others.
All that having been said, and risking being wrong and in ridicule in what ONLY is my intuition and a little bit of my psychic side, I sense that Rathbun made a deal with DM, and that his way of communicating VERY CLOSELY resembles those used by the OSA guys at their attempt at “Dead Agenting” the “enemies”. Rathbun isn’t just “talking”; he is STRATEGICALLY talking, two VERY different things. How strange that a man PERCEIVED in the field (for exes, Indies and Never-ins equally) as one of “comparable magnitude” to Rinder in terms of leadership of public opinion, is making PUBLIC Dead Agent statements. And don’t buy the “fact” that his “anti-LRH” comments are still in his blog. Just think as DM would.
Anyway, that’s my take. I hope that I am wrong about my perceptions. As I said, they are ONLY based on intuition and nothing more. I have no evidence whatsoever to back them up. But I trust my intuition. It has saved my life in more than one occasion.
The manner is which Rathbun backed out of the lawsuit with Scientology has always struck me as odd. My own pure speculation is that the CoS has some kind of serious dirt on him that he doesn’t want publicized.
I think that it is more than that, Free. The “normal” reaction to “they have something dirty about me”, could very well be backing out of the law suit. But he would just have gone silent about it all, and would just have moved on with his life forgetting about the CofS. Anyway, he had already stopped posting about the CofS and/or LRH since quite sometime ago, and his posts were basically about a mumbo jumbo mix of psychological bullshit mainly of his own invention or faulty interpretation of Eastern philosophies. So it is not as if he to felt forced to stop criticizing DM, Scn or LRH due to this “blackmail operation” on him.
But he didn’t just silently backed out the legal suit, and went on minding his own business. He started to STRATEGICALLY Dead Agent the strongest and latest “Bad PR attacks” against the CofS and Scn, and VERY publicly so. He – a sort of BIG “opinion leader” regarding the destructiveness inherent in Scn – coincidentally decided out of the blue to make an enemy out of EVERY friend he had that opposes Scn and the CofS. And he is doing it STRATEGICALLY so, just as expected from an OSA executive trained in the Dead Agenting practices which he KNOWS very well. He even “helped” the CofS (according to Ortega) in the case against the Lambergs. Coincidence? I don’t think so.
I think that we will continue to see a “Dead Agenting” pattern where he would choose very specific issues discussed on the latest PR attacks (the HBO documentary, Ron’s book, Lea’s book and t.v. series, John’s book, etc, etc), and attempt to Dead agent each one of them while at the same time invalidating the sources (Mike, Lea, John, Ortega, etc). That’s the way I see it, at least. Talking about bad karma!!!
His error – like DM also does – is underestimating the power of a coordinated effort among people who NO LONGER fear the CofS. Well, I love great spectacles, 🙂
I understand your point. But Marty’s active dead agenting people could be part of some serious leverage from the CoS. Well, as you said, it’s all speculation and it could be as Mike Rinder suggests, Marty has developed some serious mental problems, perhaps from the years of being harassed by the Cos. If I had a bunch of people like the “squirrel busters” following me around, I’m not sure how I would handle it.
Yes Fred! I agree that Marty has developed mental problems over the years. I began to notice it some few years ago when he began to talk about this “middle way” thing of his, and distanced himself for both the CofS and the Anti(s). He began to philosophically mix various viewpoints taken from different religious philosophies, and started coming up with VERY strange and complex ideas. Obviously, he had GROSSLY misunderstood the Buddhist concept of the “Middle Way” which has absolutely NOTHING to do with “not choosing sides”.
While other Indies or Scientology sympathizers – especially those highly trained auditors – started to expand on Scn by “researching” other methods of application such as “The Pilot”, “Clearbird”, “Robert Ducharme” and other freezoners; Marty started on a similar path, only one mostly based on philosophical concepts instead of methods of application as in auditing procedures. You could see that he was trying to make sense out of life by coming up with his own synthesis of different philosophical concepts taken out of Eastern religions such as Buddhism which he GROSSLY misunderstood. I could “sense” from him the same restlessness of mind and spirit that I sensed from those auditors I mentioned, especially from Ken Ogger (aka “The Pilot”), and other freezoners.
From what I’ve been told, Marty has a family history of mental derangements which might had made him worried about his own future sanity. Whether that information is true or not, the fact is that I had always sensed an emotional instability from Marty; like someone about to snap at any time and lose it. That sensation kept me from participating in his blog.
SOB just eased off the vise a couple turns. Just so Rathbun could see how good it feels. It’s still there ready to be tightened again at any moment.
Ditto!
The dichotomy you have instinctively picked up on is because Rathbun himself actually enjoyed fucking over other people. The part he stopped being on board with is that it was the CoS that gave him the opportunity.
On one hand, you hate CoS because of what it did to you. On the other, you love it because of what it allowed you to get away with. What’s a guy to do?
Your analysis makes sense, Outsider; thanks for sharing it.
Like you, I always sensed that Marty enjoyed that “power” (especially the “power” to humiliate) he had over others when he was RTC Inspector General. I never sensed that from Rinder.
I started watching these this morning. The more I watched the more it seemed strained, unreal or really just plain batty. Is he doing a condition formula? “deal an effective blow to the members of the group you were pretending to be a part of”? Who’s the film maker, who’s he talking to? Whats the purpose of this? Is he making amends to the cheerch? What record is he trying to set straight and why?
RLR, I’ve been watching them from the beginning, and trying to analyze them as best I can.
I suspect that Rathbun is trying to defend or even make amends with the subject of Scientology, not the CofS.
The whole thing raises more questions that answers. But I think Mike is right, delusional behavior is at work – so it may be pointless to try to make too much sense of them.
In order to fully understand insanity, one much become insane. I personally don’t think it’s worth that journey or taking it myself. Marty is doing things which make no sense. It’s not necessary to know “why”.
I don’t think you actually need to become insane to understand insanity, just as Oncologists don’t need to have cancer to treat it. Marty is being driven by factors and demons about which we can only speculate, but ultimately it is sad to see him dissemble in this way. Mike’s grace, generosity and loyalty to the Marty of the past is truly uplifting.
It’s possible you can do something that no one else has done to date… and it seems you are. You are being kind. You are understanding that he is the victim of decades of cult programming and brainwashing and realizing that maybe he didn’t get out of it as easily as some people did. I am not making excuses for his current behaviour. Just acknowledging that he might be having a more difficult go of things and kindness goes a long way.
I worked with Marty for over two years during the time of the “Squirrel Busters” episodes and I am forever grateful to have gone “clear” under his genius abilities to deliver auditing! I stay neutral for both Marty and Scientology, knowing auditing is based on Greek Oracle Processes aka Maieutics and delivered straight from Divine. We may never understand what any of us would do under horrific “stress”… Therefore, I find there no point in taking a viewpoint. I send divine love to every single spiritual being (my family) in this dimension and beyond! And, I realize it is out of my spiritual ethics to spend one once of my time on anything other than love. In Gratitude, Dr. Erin
Lady, you are nuts.
Unnecessary!
Yes a little to much Scientology Erin Fall Haskell. Their is not any difference between clear and not clear and ot. None
The residues of some fundamental spiritual truths inherited from the past and no longer accessible in the same way enabled Hubbard to construct a very impressive counterfeit of a true spiritual path : but please be careful: auditing Involves the bypassing of ones awareness to get at things one is unaware of by dictating lines of thought from the outside instead of ones line of thought being intuited and determined from within by the individual: the illusion of exteriorization can be brought about by this. The word spirit and the word personality do not identify the same experience. The harm that the auditing process does to you and that you experience consciously as a ‘win’, is not temporary. A less ambiguous way of putting the above might be this : the E-meter needle is being employed as a kind of dowsing rod held over the depths of the unconscious, and using an external tool like this, and external to your thinking Ego, to probe what is unconscious produces effects that are alien (I choose that word deliberately) to the individuals true nature because they emanate from any number of randomly received impressions, and the relationships of ideas posited by Hubbard.
Very well written. I like it!
Lady, you, too, are a class act. Your comments are spot on.
The only thing I can think of is that during Monique’s trial when the CO$ realized that the fallout of losing that case would most certainly accelerate the decline of Scientology on an unprecedented scale by ultimately putting itself on trial for countless other similar cases which would seek damages, which would then most certainly cause the IRS to reexamine their status, that they gave Marty a blank check to cut their losses and sweep him under the rug. But it came with a few stipulations. Fire the attorneys. DA Lawrence Wright, etc Denounce, refute etc., the Indie movement (or whatever OSA is labeling it these days) … etc. Money explains it plus the relief of not being harassed anymore while filthy rich to boot where he could raise his children and enjoy the rest of his dark life.
Or there is that last possibility and that is, he went nuts. Driven to insanity by the COS which is well documented (by himself and others). And when he does do something stupid and violent, THAT blood will be on their hands. I hope it never comes to that, but it’s hard to predict in this war.
I think you are absolutely correct
Yes, this is the correct scene.
Delusional? Nope!
I may be late to this game, but I would like to know if Marty Rathbun has ever said anything negative about the the words, works, or writings of L.Ron Hubbard.
Could any of you help me in this?
I think around 2013 on his blog. If you forage around you can read him when he was allowing himself to think freely and critize Scientology and Hubbard.
I’ll have to spend some time digging around there. If he is being set up to re-enter the official church of scientology, his past criticism of LRH may come back to bite him, because the church believes LRH can do no wrong.
Better to be Leah’s bitch, than Dave’s flunky
I bet Leah doesn’t beat or imprison her staff.
Mike, it is always painful to see an old friend change his personality in ways that make you cringe in sympathy. You have been a steadfast friend to Marty and I have nothing but admiration for your wish that he might find a way to get help.
I do not think that will happen, but your example will make his future less difficult. When a person is taken over by his demons, leaving him alone is the kindest thing to do. There are very few people who vanquish personal demons at this time.
Keep up the good work of carrying out your Mission Statement.
I view Marty as similar to an AA member who is clean for years but then relapses and returns to the bottle.
That’s an interesting (& IMHO relevant) example! Aaron Smith-Levin mentioned in his most recent Q&A that Marty had left and returned to CO$ 3 separate times. I don’t believe I’d ever read or realized that.
He talked about the instability and confusion that would come from flip-flopping like that and it makes a lot of sense. Though he mentions he doesn’t discount the theory that Marty took a settlement in some quid pro quo fashion, he also could see him choosing to do these videos of his own accord. Worth watching as he calls out a few things I hadn’t noticed in watching the videos myself about his perspective on all items he’s calling out as “false…didn’t happen.”
I like your comparison as I can see the similarities/correlations between someone w/an addiction or codependency compared to someone trying to heal from a cult experience like this.
“I view Marty as similar to an AA member who is clean for years but then relapses and returns to the bottle.”
Been there and done that (years ago) – but I didn’t go around bashing AA and defending booze when I relapsed.
Does anyone know what happened to Stacey Brooks? I know she keeps a low profile, but did she go back to the insanity as it appears Marty has done?
Mike I read you blog frequently and have watched/read pretty much everything you’ve been involved with in regards Scientology and always had a very honorable impression of you like you actually care about what you were doing. This post sums up everything. The fact you responded in a level manner like this and waited until being called out to do so shows true integrity.
So far through “Part 21”, 93 minutes, one hour 33 minutes. The last video ran just under 13 minutes and wasn’t numbered so I guess the show is over for now. Maybe he’s spoken his piece and is waiting for feedback. We’ll see.
You are a good person Mike. I am proud to know you.
Beautifully said Mike. I thought perhaps Marty had been beaten in the head once too often, but I see now that his mental unrest goes much deeper. I wish him peace.
Mike, you are such a fine man, your response to this debacle is compassionate. I’m not sure if I would be able to show the grace you have shown, were I in your place.
Those videos seem similar to the smear sites COS (Mc$avage) put up in response to Aftermath. Whether these smear/troublemaking tactics are prompted by the Corporation, or if it’s Hubbard’s basic Scientology Fair Game training kicking in, remains to be seen. For now though, it’s obvious that SOMEone feels threatened.
How Mike has the patience that he has practiced is extremely admirable.
But poor Marty… I ache for the heroic character he once had, and then simply pissed away. Why do people do that? Does scientology have some dirt on his wife or something? If so, embrace the dirt, and know that everyone hates the blackmailer more than the the person blackmailed. Marty, come back to the light, please.
Agreed – Marty’s blog has become the new defacto CoS hate/smear website; probably because no one was paying much attention to the others, while Marty had a built-in audience. DM’s dirty tricks know no bounds.
I didn’t know he “turned”!! I thought he snapped out of all that !! I guess there’s a lot more than I have seen so far ! Man, I thought he was “normal” now . What a disappointment! Stay strong Mike , Leah & Tony ! I guess I have much more to learn !
Mike, I think it’s very big of you to be so understanding about Marty and his possible mental problems.
I am not so high-minded. There are a lot of people, myself included, that have been harmed by the church of scientology and its control tactics. There have been a lot of people that have lost family members or whole families, or their incomes or their friends or all of the above (and some of these solely because they would not disavow Marty). There are people who are so intimidated by the church that they just toe the line or give them money for nothing just to not suffer consequences.
Marty played a small part in my declare and loss of son because I believed him when he spoke on Anderson Cooper History of Violence when he said there was a “beatings a day,” etc. Now he says my stories such as mine are old rehashed stories. Even if it was, the injustice goes on. There are many that got declared solely because they reached out to Marty.
Marty is doing a bang-up job for the church. He is doing what david miscavige wants. He may be contributing to members staying in even longer because of these current testimonies and one of them might be my son.
Well, I hope one day Marty can get his mental illness cured as well. In the meantime, I don’t wish him well – not one bit.
Out of respect and to be a good friend and stay classy you skip addressing any allegations, but will instead just say he’s insane. I can’t argue, that is very classy.
Mike,
A Class Act, as is your usual wont, and a beautiful example of the “restraint of tongue and pen” this never-in tries to teach his compadres in recovery. This saga is creating so much emotion from many of those “there then,” as well as later members familiar with the players, and even some dedicated never-ins, as we read in the panoply of comments on both forums, running into the hundreds on this matter. I can only wish for hope, healing, and ultimately forgiveness as the Aftermath of what I pray is the return of this Malevolent Machiavellian Manipulative Modulus of Misery back to the Netherworld from which it sprang, sooner rather than later.
Thanks for your input Mike.
You’re a stand up guy.
Love to you and your family.
Mike’s post really hit home with me. I was also a friend of Marty and I share Mike’s thoughts on the matter. Mike’s post, along with most of the comments here, had compassion whereas an average C of S response to any criticism is filled with anger, hate, lies and attacks.
One would think that the C of S would start taking a different approach in their response to critics. Maybe something along the lines of a preacher or a Buddhist monk. They are so far from any sort of compassion it amazes me and makes them look ridiculous and not at all church like.
My son, Craig, wrote horrible knowledge reports and videos on Lois and me as did Lois’ sisters. We countered with a website for Craig.
http://www.craigreisdorfwithlove.com/….. We want you to know that we love you dearly and no matter what has happened, our doors are always open to you. All you have to do is show up and you will be …
The link in your post doesn’t seem to work. Maybe because of the ….. after it? I don’t want him to miss the beautiful messages. http://www.craigreisdorfwithlove.com/
Gary I have watched your episode (on leah’s show) over and over and the strength and love of your family is incredible!
The way Mike is handling this whole thing too is the best F U to the church (and Marty). Because they never learned the meaning of compassion, undrstanding or family. Those three words totally escaped LRH, Miscaviage & now poor Marty.
You guys are right, being nasty and pathetic get you no where I hope someday that your loved ones and everyone elses are freed from that horrible place of misery and see the world truly “clear” for the first time.
I respect your loyalty Mike to your friends and to yourself. I conjecture that you have done your best your whole life for what you believed was right when you were a kid, our admired Snr. Exec inside the church to then leaving and right up till now.
Marty may be in trouble emotionally or he may be crazy like a fox. I suspect Mosey would act effectively if his faculties required.
Life can be one hell of a drive especially for the adventurous. Congratulations to you and Leah for the energy your giving peeling back the layers.
This was honestly the very first of Marty’s many utube videos I’ve watched. He literally makes no sense and comes off as an angry synical ex scientologist who somehow is feeling slighted that he’s not whoeverybody wants to hear from. I just don’t get it. I feel bad for those who confided in him over the years.
They will be feeling more than a little alarmed too.
One day when this great saga will be recorded by future historians, your generosity of spirit will be well rewarded.
I never listen to Rathbun cuz he just drones on – but with all the postings here I watched. IMHO he’s been paid a crap load of money, he’s been convinced to take care of himself first (hang friendships), he’s been promised even more if he can sway public opinion, and he still drones on & is boring.
All in all – I don’t care if the troikas (Ortega, Rinder, Remini) has been paid a million dollars each for what they are doing. If it’s true about all the abuses – kids, rape, sex, scams, lies, disconnections, broken families – people’s minds have been f&:$ed with & that’s not cool. Ppl have committed suicide, gone literally crazy cuz of Scientology. I totally believe these stories.
My own dreams have included CoS chasing me….and I’m just a fringe lurker who has read books, watched some shows & read blogs.
LRH methods will destroy minds – not build anyone up…it’s a sick org that needs to be exposed! I’ve given money to help this troika and will continue.
Barbet, I love your post.
To believe some invented “troika” is banking on exposing the crimes of scientology, as if money is their motive, then what sad and sick minds are rotting in the skulls of Marty and Miscavige.
They are so, so dumb.
The mass of humanity attacking scientology want justice and punishment, nothing more.
Barbet, you have pointed out that the real issue are the abuses…
“… kids, rape, sex, scams, lies, disconnections, broken families – people’s minds have been fucked with & that’s not cool. People have committed suicide, gone literally crazy because of Scientology…”
Marty, come back to the light, please. Do you want to painted with the same brush that touches the likes of David Miscavige? We all know what is going on.
I have believed in Marty’s integrity since I first met him in 2010, and in subsequent meetings and dialogues I came to implicitly trust him, and attempted to defend him against his detractors. After watching the fist twenty videos on his blog I posted what follows on Facebook”
I just finished re-watching the 20 videos posted by Mark Rathbun on his blog, “Moving On Up A Little Higher”. In those videos, each lasting a few minutes, Mr. Rathbun, in great detail, negatively deconstructs the narrative of Lawrence Wright;s book on Scientology, “Going Clear”, The Prison of Disbelief”. He focuses on. among other things, the lengthy battle the church had with the IRS to regain its tax exempt status as a religion. Mr. Rathbun, having been a witness and participant in those events, discusses what he sees as omissions, falsehoods and fabrications, in Mr. Wright’s depiction of those events. In addition Mr. Rathbun finds the book rife with additional omissions, falsehoods and fabrications, which Mr. Rathbun explains, he tried to correct in hours of discussion with Mr. Wright, but was ignored. Mr. Rathbun is attempting to set the record straight with his personal knowledge and experience from within the highest levels of church management. O.K, this is admirable , but to what end? Will knowing the truth of the church’s conflict with the IRS bring families that have been destroyed back together? Will it obviate the knowledge that Mr. Rathbun, Mike Rinder, Amy Scobee, and Tom DeVocht fled from David Miscavige’s church and his abuses, which were reported in detail in the Tampa Bay Times in 2009; and the stream of church members who fled thereafter? Will we forget the years of abuse Mr Rathbun and his wife endured at his homes in Texas, and whenever he left Texas, at various airports and city streets? Because Mr. Wright may have been wrong in points of his narrative, should we now forget the vitriol spewed by the church against its detractors on websites filled with hatred and lies, Mr. Rathbun included? The despicable behavior of those who continue to serve David Miscavige, who continues to execute the horrific policies of L Ron Hubbard, cannot and should not be mitigated by whether Lawrence Wright did or did not write the absolute truth. Our eyes can see and our ears can hear.
After watching his last last video in which he disparaged you, Mike, Leah Remini,and Tony Ortega in the way he did, I was even more shaken. It was sad and painful. I do not know where Monique stands regarding his commentary, but my heart go out to both of them, and am happy that Billy is too young to understand now what is going on
Thank you Mike for your perspectiv, understanding and compassion.
You write well Michael & from the heart.
Thank you, Mike. It breaks my heart to see Marty like this.
I think he may be fighting an internal battle between two realities; his past Scientology world and post Scientology world. The problem seems that neither reality is winning and it’s slowly tearing him apart mentally.
For what is worth, Mike and Leah you have all my support on the intense task of bringing up facts about the actions the Church has fallen into. And I know many others have that honest support for you and Leah too.
I watched 30 seconds of Marty’s first video and that was all. It did not even make sense that he started attacking something that he earlier supported with facts, work and with help to many others that had reached him.
I do not intend to watch any of them and I really hope he finds his OWN personal path and gets good moments with his family.
He also did help me and that is the way I will remember him.
The high road is the best road, there’s just no doubt there.
Still, figuring out whether or not lil davey is the real shot caller here is an important mystery to solve. That’s because if MR is now owned and being remotely operated by the cult, none of the confidential correspondence that some of us may have had with him can be considered secure. Similarly, everyone who may have dealt with him on a professional basis can no longer continue to consider his past reports and testimony to be completely credible, based on the fact that he’s just directly contradicted himself on some very key prior statements and sworn testimony .
If MR has been bribed or coerced by the cult to, in effect, dead agent himself, and objective evidence of the cult’s “double-curved” covert operation in influencing him to make knowingly false statements can be obtained, then instead of undermining the $cn reform movement, the boomerang effect would further damage the cult’s already atrocious public image…and that’s a very worthwhile objective as the second season of Leah’s “Cult Dismantlers” series gets set to air.
To me, it’s fairly obvious that the cult’s invisible hand is at work here; there are just too many different signs pointing to that conclusion and very few pointing away. Plus, unless MR is slipping into early dementia or becoming mentally unhinged, as Mike suggested, there’s absolutely no upside to utterly destroying your own reliability as a sworn expert witness or paid research consultant, which is exactly what he’s done here. If it turns out to be a move made completely out of long-simmering spite and terminal butt hurt, then he’s face-ripped his own nose to spite the rest of his face because, “he’s never going to work in this town again”.
Exactly, who would ever trust him again? Marty, how could you turn on those who trusted you? Oh, yeah, I forgot, you are a scientologist.
Harpoona, I’m genuinely interested in, and often consider, the strategic question of when there is a point in theorizing – and when there isn’t. I don’t think there is a point, unless it informs current or future action, or provides insight that may be useful in other cases.
Rathbun clearly can’t be trusted now, or ever again. Unfortunately, particularly for someone like you, I don’t think it’s possible to know whether confidential information has been compromised; the CofS may well have hacked him, or insinuated someone into his confidence, even if he isn’t working with them. And even if he is cooperating with the CofS, he may have either enough principle or at least adherence to Hubbard’s Auditor’s Code left, that he still wouldn’t reveal confidences.
So I don’t see that theorizing is going to produce anything useful to operate on – with simply not trusting Rathbun, a given – until or unless Rathbun himself provides a true accounting of the situation. And I don’t think that we could even ever trust any explanation or accounting that he provided, anyway.
Given that, can you identify some specific strategic or tactical usefulness for theorizing?
And, I’m sorry to hear about your concerns, and that you’re left with such uncertainty.
Well, coming to the best understanding that you can about things that are both mysterious and consequential has its own intrinsic value, at least for me.
In addition, theorizing has a heuristic value in that different theoretical positions (e.g., MR is mentally unhinged vs. MR has been paid off by the cult) predict different patterns of future events. Developing a detailed theory enables one to predict both what should follow if the theory is correct and also what you would expect not to see as well.
For example, when MR began his series, I theorized from the beginning that he was either being paid or coerced to do what he was doing by the cult and predicted that if that was indeed the case he would end up where he is now, which is attacking the folks who are perceived as the biggest threat to the cherch and to lil davey personally.
If MR has been bribed or coerced by the cult to, in effect, dead agent himself, and objective evidence of the cult’s “double-curved” covert operation in influencing him to make knowingly false statements can be obtained, then exposing the cult’s continuing use of dirty tricks methods would be yet another example of the cherch acting in violation of the conditions under which it was granted tax-exempt status.
So, to summarize: Theorizing serves a useful purpose because understanding has inherent value to me personally. It can also be used as a heuristic tool in helping one to make explicit future predictions that either end up making the theory more plausible or in discounting it – eventually enabling one to hone in on the truth over time. Finally, if the double-curve theory is correct, then exposing the cult’s use of it serves to demonstrate exactly how diabolically malevolent it truly is, thus damaging its reputation even more.
good post Harpoona. If Marty is being threatened or paid to attack the anti church people and books and to contradict himself under oath, it does effectively dead agent him so that no one will ever use him as an expert witness in any future trials as to whether the church deserves its tax exempt status or any other reason for a trial. That is diabolically smart of DM to get Marty to dead agent his own self. It does show the covert black ops the church will go to to keep DM from having to take the witness stand. And that alone should be enough to get its tax status revoked as no real church operates like the mob or the CIA. Does anyone wonder if Marty was taken in and PDHed? Pain, Drug, Hypnosis.
Thank you Mike, very much!
Mike, I’d love to see you and Mark do another fishing video. Hell, I think it’s time.
I’ve watched the videos from the beginning as I assume most you have. There are a few things I find interesting. The first is that he is talking “to” someone. If he wanted to just say stuff like this he could do it with an iPhone or whatever and pop it up on YouTube like everyone else. Then second thing is in Part 18 or 19 he appears to be talking to at least two someones as his eyes shift back and forth between the two. I don’t think he is going to change the hearts and minds for very many outside of Scientology. But in the very cloistered world of Sea Org or parishioners these videos may have a lot of weight. His shots at Tony, Mike and Leah in Part 21 today is definitely to cause upset between the 3 of them. Which it won’t do. And also perhaps get Tony in trouble with The Village Voice for that story. And wasn’t that brought up in the recent special about the VV ads by one of people on the panel? But again he has an audience. I believe Scientology is on the other side of that camera. Whatever they’ve promised him must be big. I’ve never seen anyone lie so seamlessly and up close. He made up one narrative and now he’s flipping and saying he never said what he said. “I went over that with him in spades.” What does that even mean? They haven’t taken down their smear sight on him as far as I know. But what is the payoff. He’s surely sold his soul. He must be a very tortured man.
MIS, Scientology hasn’t taken down their smear sites on him – and he hasn’t taken down his videos and blogs that disparage Miscavige and the CofS and paint them in a bad light.
What’s going on may be something rather different than might be assumed – or something as simple and banal as that he got some free video time like he said he did in the intro piece, and is using it to air his obsessions with Wright’s work and his conspiracy theories, because he’s become delusional (as Mike says).
Thank you Mike for the dignity,you have a past together that only you and he know about, something’s are sacred even if the man has gone a different way, I personally think he was afraid of loosing his wife and was offered a sweet deal but that included dissing you,the last interview he gave he was a nervous mess his mouth was dry he’s wearing a suit, I think it was a hard decision to sell out but sell out he did!!!
You’re awesome Mike Rinder!!!! So is Leah and Tony you all Rock keep it up
I’m so grateful that Tobin and Childs, Wright, Gibney, Ortega, Theroux and others were able to so completely document and memorialize Marty Rathbun’s disclosures during his brief hiatus from delusion. Those documented disclosures, confirmed and corroborated, stand as the true record of Scientology’s nightmarish history.
Try as he might, Marty Rathbun cannot undo what he has done, or the truth that, for a while, at least, he uttered.
“brief hiatus from delusion.” That’s hilarious! Marty has found a new brand of The Koolaid
And it is all gone!
Every. Last. Drop.
“I sincerely believe Marty should seek professional help.” Tragically that is the last thing he is likely to do, given Scientology’s demonising of mental health professionals.
One would have to admit they have a problem to seek help.
Some have called me a callous son of bitch on occasion but a spade is a spade. Life sure deals some awkward and crappie hands to play but Rathbun at present has turned me cold. I’ll wait and see but won’t hold my breath waiting for him to ever see the light. I think the time has well gone past that using common sense and compassion has any affect on Scientologists or their sympathizers. They prey on such emotions, it gives them purpose and an easy path to follow for their agenda.
It’s a tough call to realize you have enemies on this planet but just being you, but that’s a portion of what life is composed. Geezers… just look at the history of any society to see how freedom has been fought over and bleed for time and time again. Organised Scientology is an enemy of well intention-ed people and collateral damage is a blind bitch of a thing.
I’ll say it, fuck Rathbun!
I Yawnalot, yes, I completely agree with you.
The gloves are off. Show no mercy, because you know scientology would not show mercy to you.
Marty Rathbun’s name is now associated with betrayal. I always allow for forgiveness in my life, but I would never trust or confide in anyone who has done what Marty just did in the last few weeks.
Marty the black hole is sucking you back in, please pull yourself out.
WAYC, let’s show mercy – because it’s the right thing to do.
Two wrongs don’t make a right – except in the sort of scientological thinking that Rathbun has descended back in to, which is exactly the problem. I’d say, for instance, that he’s taking that approach in his videos that the answer to what he thinks is one-side PR against Scientology, is to respond with one-sided PR in defense of Scientology, not actual balance.
Let’s not get sucked into operating at the level that he has reverted to.
Peacemaker, good point, and your moniker is perfect. Please know that I will always allow for forgiveness, as mentioned. But sometimes you have hit back at a bully.
“WAYC, let’s show mercy – because it’s the right thing to do.”
I just have to comment on that, no matter how late. “The right thing to do” is the exact concept Hubbard and now Miscavige have preyed upon and manipulated and coerced others to pursue for years while stabbing them in the back the whole time.
Fuck them… how many people have to suffer and continue to suffer by doing “the right thing” as you call it and letting these assholes carry one? Geezers the United States itself is the best example of taking up arms to set things right the world has ever seen, and by their actions forged some agreement in the direction of the pursuit of freedom for the whole world to take notice. Violence and a fuck you attitude has it’s place, or do you believe the holocaust didn’t happen. Rathbun needs to drop out of site again and do something else with his life – he’s done enough damage and his history is strewn with it plus doing good as well. Now he’s back on the gruesome train to create misery once again. Ever consider his actions are not required in the debate on Scientology anymore and he needs to be told in no uncertain terms, to shut the fuck up! – I sure do.
It always seems like you’re being forced to walk on eggshells with every word when trying to explain why a colleague, shipmate, buddy or whatever other term denotes having a shared existence through adversity with someone who suddenly goes off the rails. It can be reluctantly viewed as some type of unexplainable “treason.” What’s that Scio based concept… The greater the ARC, the greater the ARC break.
It leaves you with a hollow feeling of which gives you a sense that no-one else will ever really appreciate what you feel unless they were actually there, sharing that same experience or lifestyle occurrences.
It can happen in all walks of life or professions. I’ve seen something similar occur under certain aspects of the hardships of soldiering. However, I refuse to listen to any negative aspects of my colleague’s behavior by others who weren’t there – period!
The big difference I see here is that Scientology is involved. Here we have a belief, life system that as a method of operation relishes in the ability to split and rip families apart, destroys friendships, steals money by lies and renders people inoperable to their own sense of common sense & reality. Marty imo drank the kool aid a little too deeply and it conditioned him by his own actions in it to eventually create his own private make believe world as a refuge. It implanted something like a time bomb in his mind he is desperately trying to avoid. I’ve briefly met a couple of past Scio colleagues who were high up exec’s and from my opinion they are changed people forever and not for the better.
I saw Marty’s videos and he has indeed lost the plot and it could be suggested he has developed a taste for the kool aid again, except he camouflages it with weirdly chosen words, concepts and an agenda which makes you only guess what he is truly up to (just whose side is on now?) but it leaves you feeling ill. I guess one way to view it, what would Miscavige think of those strange, fairy tale scripted speeches now coming from Rathbun?
One thing for which I’m certain is that I’m sure sick to death of the mind games and life destroying antics surrounding and generated by Scientology!
Could be, with Marty’s scio history in mind, that Li’l Dinky wants those videos to show to any wavering staff to prove that “truth will out” and even a major SP can change his mind.
Mike, you and Leah hold the high ground and I am sad to see Marty use innuendo half truths and lies in his videos. I kept tuning in to portions of his rants waiting for him to get to the point. I am done watching! You have really good ethics presence, regardless of your past history in the church. And your letting Marildi and My 2 cents post alternative views on your blog puts a lie to Marty’s accusations of your banning and ostrasicing opposing viewpoints! You have let my wife and I post in support of some of the tech without comment, except that once you admitted that not all Scientology is bad…which also puts the lie to his accusations.. I fact check and have never caught you in an untruth! And I sincerely hope you and Leah make good money from your expose’s of the abuses of the Church! You deserve it! You are putting yourself in harms way for a very good cause and should be compensated well! I am sorry that an old friend has turned on you….. Betrayal after trust sucks! You are the Man and your response to Marty is dignified!
I wish I knew what Monique, a never-in, thought about all this. I really don’t believe for one minute that Marty has taken a payout, he could have got that through the lawsuit. The argument here that Theroux caved in his ego and he’s looking for revenge seems the most likely. I also had a nasty thought that DM, were he smart, would tell Marty “I fucked up bad, you’re the only one who can save Scientology now, please help and I’ll let you take over”.
Thank you, Mike, for letting us know how you feel. I was worried how you were holding up after being trashed by someone you considered a friend. My heart breaks for you and in some small way for Marty. I worry for Mosey and wonder if she is complicit, but know I can’t make it my problem and I hope she can take care of herself.
When Marty stepped away from the lawsuits, I really wanted to believe he had just grown weary and wanted a real life, and I tried with all my heart to believe the best in him.
Therefore, when those videos started, it broke my heart. I haven’t watched any of them, just read some of the comments people have been making, because it would be too painful to watch the man ramble himself into incoherency believing he was truly making a point.
You can’t help someone who doesn’t want help. You are helping a lot of those who do. Just remember that.
I’m not sure if you and Leah understand how many of us kept quiet for all these years, believing that we had “handled” our emotions regarding what had happened to us while we were in and the impact that Aftermath has had on us.
Ignoring a trauma does not heal it. I have had badly and only partially healed wounds ripped open by your series and am finally dealing with and healing from past experiences that I had pretended did not exist for so many years.
You are a good man on a good path. The pittance you are being paid is well below what you deserve. Each person I have talked to, whether or not they have ever been in, who has seen your show, say it has had a profound effect on their thinking. Thank you.
Respect.
Well put.
+respect! Well said Valerie. I agree. Thank you for putting yourself on the line Mike. You are a man of integrity. Thank you soooo much for being part of our healing.
As I alluded to in a post several days ago, I believe he has been irreparably damaged by his time in scientology. Both by the criminal “tech” developed by Hubbard and the criminal & unethical acts he perpetrated in the name of the cult & Hubbard. At this point I too think he should see professional (licensed) help. He helped many to escape the cult…
The Russian roulette of the public arena games of Scientology. I can’t help but be reminded of that scene in the Deer Hunter and the pursuing story line. Even though that guy escaped the horrors of war he went back and eventually blew his own brains out. Those Marty helped escape the cult are the ones that must be really grappling with their own private dilemma.
Scientology is a strange type of poison.
Yes I Yawn, the term insidious comes to mind.
And he needs our prayers. The weapon of love is the greatest OT ability. Just ask Gandhi and MLK.
I agree, Brian. “The weapon of love”. Gandhi and MLK were real OTs. They knew.
Mike, your response to Marty’s non sequitur, inexplicably turncoat behavior and personal attacks puts you right up there with these gentlemen.
Marty helped me too. I won’t forget that either.
And there’s obviously missing data which make understanding Marty and his actions impossible now.
All I can do is pray for him, and I am.
Correct.
Some people say life is a game and money is how you keep score.
Well Scientology is Hubbard’s and SOB’s game and lost souls like Rathbun is how they keep score.
Mike thank you for your measured and honest response to the latest video monologue from your once friend and counselor. Your upright stance against lies and falsehoods again show the man you are.
Marty’s life never appeared to be simple, and it is concerning for him as whether he will survive unbroken. He does not yet realize that the downward projectory (down-stat?) of $cn will not change because of his ‘new’ evidence.
I watched Marty’s video’s wondering what was the point of trying to discredit Lawrence Wrights book. I did not see where it was particularly helpful to anyone. Today I saw Marty blatantly try to drive a wedge between Mike and Leah. I didnt like it. What was the point of that. I can speculate as we all can. But whatever is behind it, it was not Ok. I can see with my own eyes how Mike treats Leah by his words, tone , body language and look. There is a good relationship there and respect on both ends. Mike has been put through the wringer, had his family torn apart. For Marty to assign money motivation to Mike as his driving force is just so wrong. Intellectually, Marty is a force. He has helped a lot of people. I hope he does not throw it all away for any reason. Mike, I hope some day you get an apology from him. Whatever Marty’s agenda is, you did not deserve that.
Whats the point,
Co$ might have used Marty to make a Dead Agent Pack that Ethics Officers in all orgs can show to Still Ins if and/or when they ask about Lawrence Wright’s book and/or HBO documentary. The latter won an Emmy Award, after all, which could have brought it to the attention of a number of Scientology “celebrities”.
I’m just throwing a possibility out there. Pure speculation.
Miscavige: “Have you done your good deed for the day, you CICS? You know what happens to people who don’t do their good deed for the day?”
Rathbun: “Yes sir thank you sir ML” *sob*
Classy, Mike.
It’s good to see you are one of those people who never forgets those that helped him, even after seeing that person isn’t capable of the same sort of loyalty as you have shown.
I didn’t know Marty that way, but I am glad to know some here did. Your compassion for one who was once a friend is inspiring.
Nobody I ever knew was completely bad or completely good. It’s odd, sometimes, how some knew Marty one way and others knew him completely differently. He did a lot for years to fight the cult. I hope he gets this out of his system soon and somehow finds some peace of mind – maybe for the first time in his life.
He seems to be forgetting things, mixing things up. Maybe it is a sort of mind protection. You and Marty saw and experienced things I never had. I’m glad you made it through okay. We all hoped Marty would, too. Maybe someday he’ll get the help he needs. I sincerely hope so.
(and I hope he stops yakking nonsense soon, too.)
Another speculation, sprung from what you’ve just shared, Sheila H:
Perhaps, if his vids are for a D/A Pack, Co$ WANTS Marty to come off as disjointed, not altogether there, kind of mental. THEN, they can say to whomever is watching it, “You see how nutty he is? He’s not in his right mind. His actions against the Church of Scientology are all part of his illness”
So maybe Co$ TOLD him to play it that way.
Ok, that’s a stretch, and I’m not going to speculate anymore.
Hi Aquamarine,
Yes, it’s to COS’ benefit.
These are the people that drive their enemies to insanity, though. IMO, Marty’s been close to one or more people who wanted to do exactly that and worked hard at it. Consider the possibility that Marty may not be faking at all. Everything Marty ever feared, every secret he’s ever told in session is in COS files.
Marty’s had wild conspiracy theorists in his ear for years, and these are the ones that kept egging him on and claimed to be “friends” while he struggled to hold things together. These are the true, “Merchants of Fear.”
He exhibits extreme paranoia in his last blog post and trouble differentiating between who, what or where someone is actually spying on him and working against him. The way he writes, it sounds like it’s everywhere. No doubt his conspiracy theory “friends” have been reminding him of policy after policy to hype up his fears and concerns to their maximum level and divert his attention to false and even invisible enemies and trigger his OSA-trained thinking and responses. I’m sure they continue to support him financially and in other ways as they succeed, too. Now the ones that planted these ideas in his head in the first place are the only ones that believe him, taking him down even further.
His spying background is his Achilles heel; he finds it impossible to just discard these sorts of conspiracies. His financial or other dependency on the people who poison his mind traps him into this hell as they soothe and build his ego (a big Marty weakness) and insist he cut off and attack his true friends like Mike Rinder, Karen DLC, Paul Haggis and others,
Marty’s false bravado gave most the idea he was strong enough mentally to get through the cognitive dissonance. It hid his actual state of mind and the fragility of holding so many contrary ideas in his head.
I don’t believe Marty is faking it. L Ron Hubbard Jr.’s story is similar, so is Paulette Cooper’s, and I know of other tragic cases. We all do.
I agree with your approach Mike. It’s a bit sad.
As others have said Mike, you are a true gentleman and a good man. Your honesty and integrity in all things shines through. You continue to pay forward the help you’ve received by helping many others in turn. Wishing you continued success & all the best to you and your family.
Mike, your post is incredible, thank you. I did not know Marty but I do not want any person or four footed furries or anything in nature to suffer pain either physical or of the mind and spirit. May he find what he has lost. ?
Mike, my respect for you grows with posts like this. That and a buck will buy you a cheap loaf of bread but I mean it sincerely. I was on YouTube last night and the Fishing Videos popped up, it drove home the personal sadness you must feel for your friend. I think we all tend to forget you (and everyone else) are people with personal feelings that are unrelated to the efforts to stop COS. Emotions can be conflicting and we overlook that. I’m sorry for your “loss” of Martys friendship, I hope he finds peace within himself while you, Leah, Tony and everyone else fills in the void he created when he “turned” for lack of a better word, and people are saved from this cult. Many thanks to you all.
Maybe Marty just has a drinking problem? 🙂
Yeah. Of the Kool-Aid variety perhaps…
“Scientology can handle that!”.
Ah, shit! I’m having staff member flashbacks!
This is a very classy response to an unfortunate and unnecessarily confusing circumstance. May happiness and success continue to shine brightly upon your chosen path. Respect.
I feel sick and saddened by the pathetic thing Marty has become. In my view point, he has sold his soul for money, and there is nothing left there.
I am not sure he will ever be able to recover any self respect.
Thank you for your grace and understanding, Mike, you of all people who went through so much with Marty. I never knew Marty personally. But I can relate to the pain, anguish and dissociation that former members go through, some for many years. You are my friend though, and I thank you for your compassion.
Thanks for taking the high road here, Mike. How very hard to see a former friend implode.
My thoughts echo those who expressed condolences for a friendship lost, and respect for the way you are responding to this. I can’t imagine being thrown into this reality show, one you never asked for, and then having to watch ‘one of your own’ tumbling into this black hole. It has to really, really suck, and I just wanted to say I’m sorry.
As a longtime reader and never commentator of yours blog as well as tony’s, I just feel like saying something today.
Back when Marty’s blog started, he did a great job. The more I think about it and about the people he helped, as I’ve read in a lot of the comments at the bunker, the more it saddens me to see his… yeah… weird behavior now. It seems to me that Louis Theroux’ movie was somewhat of a breaking point to him where his ego took over whatever righteous intentions he might have had before. I hope for his sake as well as for the people’s sake he’s attacking with his videos that he at some point will realize that something’s going terribly wrong and just stay silent.
The really sad thing is, if he ever wanted to make amends for what he is doing now – no one will believe him. He resembles the boy who cried wolf…
I thank you for the great job you are doing, not only with this blog, but also with Leah Remini. And I am really surprised (in a good way!) of your calm response. As a lot of people said before: like a true gentlemen. My respect for you, which has been great since I began reading here, has grown even more.
PS: I’m really looking forward to Aftermath season 2! 🙂
PPS: Hope I didn’t make any abstruse mistakes. My written english is a little rusty it seems.
Marty has always seemed a tragic character from an O’neill or Beckett play, or even one of Euripedes flawed heroes. To have lived through the hell of his mother’s mental illness, the loss of his brother, and the woman who died in his arms on a sidewalk in LA would be enough for a case of PTSD. But add in Hubbard’s mindfuckery and Miscavige’s brutality and I’m not surprised to see where he is today. My Scientology Movie really was about him. You could see that he thought he’d control the narrative, that he was smarter than Louis, but Theroux is such a skillful observer of humanity and just kept the cameras rolling revealing Marty’s feet of clay. That was devastating for Marty to have is mask slip so badly. I know that we’re all ultimately responsible for our actions, and I know he’s been a bad actor in so many lives, but I still see that he wants to be the hero and just can’t. That’s kind of heartbreaking.
I was angry with him for the first time today. And disgusted. I’ve decided to return to hoping for him, for the sake of himself, his family, and also his friends and people who have confided and relied on him. I’m hoping he’ll take your advice. Thank you for your graciousness to him.
The level of “loaded language” in his videos is rising – words that nobody else will understand without a definition. It goes back to 1961 and Lifton’s book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism. Keep doing what you do. I like your videos better.
Good on you mate.
Yes, good on you mate! You’re a gem and he’s a prize dill who needs a few more spin cycles. Cheers from Melbourne, Australia.
Well said.
Regarding Marty,
As my father, an ex-alcoholic, told me numerous times: Never try to halt an addict on their way down. It is too much like grabbing a falling knife. Wait for the knife to stick in the floor before you touch it; and, wait for the addict to hit bottom and asks for help before you intervene.
I’ma thinking Marty is toasting and will soon burn out. Sad. But not of your or our doing.
Mike, the Queen has not bestowed a title to you, but you are a nobleman in the true sense of the word. I feel sorry for Marty. God bless you. Alex
I have watched a lot of Marty videos. Most of the time what he has to say interests me and holds my attention. I am intrigued by Scientology and I have been following and researching it for years.
With that said, I am really confused by the comments he made on this video. To me it almost seems like someone is making him say these things. Listening to him speak makes me uncomfortable. I can almost imagine “blinkey blinkerton” standing there with cue cards for him to follow along. Must be the deal he made for his “settlement”
Michael B. – looked the same to me, like part of a “deal”, in the 1st two videos, so I decided not to watch any more of them.
Michael, I suspect that we’re just seeing him falling back into the scientological mindset, in which Hubbard directs people to find scapegoats (the “who”) and see conspiracies (like the psychs) through indoctrination tools such as “SP tech” and “data evaluation” (a very Orwellian misnomer). He doesn’t necessarily need any cues, other than the ones implanted by Hubbard’s work.
Look at the example of Barbara Schwarz – who, ironically, fantasizes that she is the wife of the “real” Rathbun – to see the rabbit hole that a mind can go down post-Scientology.
I admire you so much for your integrity. You’re a class act, Mike.
Same. Respect.
Question for Rinder… When was the last time you had spoken to Rathbun?
2 + years ago as best I recall.
2+ years? Who stopped communicating and why? What about the wives? Weren’t they close too?
Strange friends, you are. You married M+M. He gave your wife away, yet you don’t talk to each other for years? What brought that on?
Marty’s determination that I was apparently now a member of the “enemy camp” which he later labeled “the ASC”
See other response he stopped communicating
Mike: “And I still don’t have any information that sheds light on WHY he is doing what he is doing.”
Leaving aside for the moment what Marty got right or wrong with regard to facts, what I get as the reason for what he’s doing is that he sees anti-Scientologists as adhering to a narrative of only forwarding the negative, and even embellishing it, while discounting any positive – and that he feels the media and documentaries in general also forward a particular narrative. The latter has been Marty’s theme for a number of blog posts for at least the past year, and I think his ultimate purpose is to shine light on that rather than on Scientology in particular, which he uses as an example of it.
You my dear, are at best, the worst kind of pollyanna.
Telling lies, attacking former friends and seeking to stir up dissent is no way to get the message of the positive of scientology across.
That you feel the need to defend his lies about me says a lot about your purpose. You should be posting comments on his videos. Not here.
Mike, I may not agree with everything you say, but i get that your intentions are sincere.
You said you had no idea what Marty’s reason was for what he’s doing, and my reply was to say what I got from Marty himself as the reason.
Marildi, if that is your name; you’ve toasted credibility here. Your attempts at creating unending arguments with passive aggressive behavior is known to most of us here.
Beekaboo
Thank you, Brian.
A big amen to that Brian.
Yo Mirildi,
Perhaps a lengthy discussion with Oracle over on Marty’s blog would be appropriate.
Oracle… I remember that poster. Boy, didn’t that internet identity go completely whacko!!! Ended up commenting on her own comments, over and over with absolute gibberish. The world sure wobbles on its axis hey?
” Leaving aside for the moment what Marty got right or wrong with regard to facts …..”
Yes Mirildi, why in the world would we want to discuss the facts when we can bloviate endlessly about things that don’t matter ……….. like Marty’s reasons for…? Marty is lying now or he lied earlier. It’s not that he got it right or wrong Mirildi …….in the real world it is plain and simple that if you have a person in front of you who is willing to tell you a lie, you might want to move on up a little higher and find some other friends.
“You should be posting comments on his videos. Not here.”
Comments are disallowed on his YouTube videos but they are open on his last blog post, which links to the recent video. Surprisingly, Rathbun has actually approved a rather critical comment by Dan Koon (and check out who’s responding to Koon):
https://markrathbun.blog/2017/06/20/leah-remini-and-her-troublemakers/#comment-351986
Incredible. The comments there, apart from Dan’s, are so absurd. If I see the stupid word “troika” again, I’m gonna barf.
What a clown show. The blind leading the deaf…all led by the master of delusion.
I’ve gotten the shark treatment over on Tony’s more than once, so I won’t completely discount the ASC accusations. I’ve never observed anything like that on this site, for the record. But if you want to see a perfect example of cult mentality, you need look no further than those comments! The level of projection coming from Marty and his “followers” is mind-boggling! I’ve never seen a bigger bunch of suck ups! And how anyone could take Mike’s post and twist it into something nefarious or malicious is beyond me. The gas lighting is maddening, but I guess it’s my own fault for reading the comments.
I posted over there and it is still awaiting moderation. Since I was critical, I am not surprised. However, Mike would have let my comment go through which was my point anyway!
Scientology is a criminal scam that hurts and kills people. I don’t care if they can teach me to walk on water, it is still a criminal scam that hurts and kills people. As long as that is the bottom line, no one needs to “salvage” anything “positive” out of that gang.
Perfectly stated, Mrs. B.
??? Mike, well said!
What specific lies did Marty tell about you?
From my perspective, “anti-scientologists” don’t have a problem with the spiritual beliefs of scientologists pe se, it’s the abuses that people like Leah and Mike are trying to stop.That’s the purpose of Aftermath as well as (as far as I understand it) Going Clear. Their purpose is not to provide a balanced approach. It’s the abuses that must be stopped; people are free to have their own spiritual beliefs even if (like LRH’s ramblings) 99% of it is factually and scientifically invalid. It’s not job of people trying to stop the abuses to promote the CO$. That’s something that the CO$ should be doing themselves with SUMP.
You are exactly right. The separation of families, the suicides, the forced abortions, the abuse of children, the ‘Hole’ the imprisonment of people etc., cancels ANY good that may have come from the first few auditing sessions. Mike, Leah, Tony, Tory, Karen, Mark, and so many others are heros. It seems to me that there is a whole lot of jealousy coming from Marty. He makes some pretty narcissistic and envious comments throughout those videos.
Marildi, the comments section of MR’s blog is open for three or four of his last videos. Why not tell him how you feel about what he’s been up to and, while you’re at it, ask him if he’s been influenced in any way by the cult in posting this video series.
I’d do it myself, but MR previews all comments before selectively posting the few which agree with him, or are posted by folks like you and the Oracle, who were part of his petting zoo before he went on hiatus. To me, the fact that he’s unwilling to engage in civil dialogue concerning the claims that he’s been making lately, which directly contradict many of his own prior statements, speaks volumes about the entire affair.
Perhaps you can get him to address a few of the more patently false factual assertions that he’s made in the series and find out why he would do such a thing. My bet is that even though you were regularly allowed to post on his blog, and engage in discussions with others there, you will no longer be able to. Please, give it a shot; we’d all love to hear!
I’m sure marildi will do that, just as soon as you and some others here and on TO’s blog, address, to prove or disprove, the possibly true assertions Marty made, rather than just circling the ad hom wagons so quickly. Perhaps Mike could post his tax returns for last year for us to study? But, I think, like a certain POTUS, I doubt he would do that.
Look a new troll. So, iamatroll, you want MIKE to disprove Marty’s allegations rather than MARTY prove MARTY’S allegations.
That puts you into the insane troll category.
Look – an online psychiatrist giving out free diagnoses ! How precious. The burden of proof is on you, yes? You can post my psych test results, right?
Here’s the proof troll. Only dangerous psychotics think that a person must prove their innocence rather than the accuser proving the guilt.
This is SO true that it was written into the most famous secular document in world history to protect the citizenry from such psychos..
Your WELL KNOWN fundamentalism doesn’t work here, Iamvalkov. You are well know for your antagonism in Geir’s blog and for your self-righteousness regarding Scn. And if you think that you can get Winsky upset, then you are more delusional than I thought, 😉
You certainly have a “Milestone Two” feel in your aura, haha. I think that Theroux should have taken a Scn sympathizer as his bait instead of an ex Scientologist. Then people would have REALLY understood how Scn equates insanity. 🙂
Do you really want to keep this up?
You’re an idiot. Pls annoy another group with your ridiculous comments because no one here is taking you serious, in fact it’s a little scary to think you would believe what you typed up. You must be in need of mental evaluation so I recommend you look into that. In the meantime, I don’t need a medical degree to know you’re either bored and making ignorant judgments and comments or just a delusional sad little troll. No more time spent on you, but thanks for making me laugh. Goodbye.
iamvalkov, given your reference to formal rules of argument, I would have thought you would have known it is a “burden of proof” fallacy to expect that the person allegations are being made against has to defend themselves, rather than that it is the responsibility of the person making allegations to provide real evidence.
Also, Rathbun has refused to answer any of the questions about his motives and financing, put to him even by sympathizers if not supporters who think those issues are important. Mike has at least provided a general answer about his compensation from the show (perhaps you missed it).
So it would be interesting if Rathbun could provide evidence such as e-mails in making his allegations, or even the corroboration of other parties with relevant knowledge. I’ve been trying to watch the situation carefully out of a genuine interest in the truth, and I think that the points on which others have refuted Rathbun’s allegations and claims with compelling evidence and testimony, indicate that his memory for these things is not as accurate as he things is it, and even that he is putting a real spin on his accounts.
It would be interesting to discuss issues like this over at Rathbun’s own blog – and I’ve tried, framing it as respectfully and “middle path” as possible, but have been censored. I think that tells us a lot. What do you think of his censoring, and what that says about his approach and agenda?
Stated very well and very fairly, Peacemaker. The number of ‘acceptable’ comments he has managed to harvest on his blog is also very telling, given the previous averages.
Transparency, balance and the truth appear to be a long way in the distance over there now. Shame.
From his open letter 4 years ago, this cannot be easy to see for Christie either. So sorry for you both and anyone else who knew him well.
Marildi, you NEVER cease to amaze me.
You know, it is Scn “supporters” like YOU that gives the Indies a bad name. You might think that you are helping the Indies by saying these nonsense comments of yours, but you are ONLY succeeding at making them LOOK VERY BAD.
Strangely enough, you ARE – as opposed to most Scn followers – knowledgeable in many spiritual practices, Eastern philosophies, and alternative methods of spiritual healing that I am SURE that you KNOW that they work. That means that you SHOULD have known better about LRH’s and Scn’s many ways to suppress the individual’s Freedom of Thought, Freedom of Speech, and many others Human Rights, so as to make it NECESSARY to alert others of that, and spare them many losses.
It DOESN’T MATTER, Marildi, if Scn has workable technical parts or not. It just doesn’t matter. REGARDLESS of that, the insiduously destructive parts MUST be make known, for the sake of all those kids that might fall prey of the CofS. For the sake of all those families that have been torn apart by Scn’s undue influence. And Mike and many others highly ranked ex-SOs have done a remarkable and honorable job at making those things known in a large scale.
Rathbun is not only betraying his friends, he is betraying the Human Rights. He is betraying those families that had suffered so much due to their connection to Scn. He is betraying the basic goodness of men and women.
Seriously, the more I see your posts, the more I am convinced that Scn ONLY leads to one route : the route to insanity.
On the other hand, perhaps more participations such as yours is what we need as the perfect “Dead Agenting” strategy for the alleged “workability” of Scn. Mike’s manners at handling you is something I can’t have. My hat’s off to him.
Thetaclear, I like where you’re going with that.
In hopes that you’ll catch this response, I want to share an idea I’ve been thinking about a lot, thought I’m going to sketch it out pretty briefly.
Hubbard’s underlying philosophy is end-justifies-the-means utilitarianism. As in, for instance, “never fear to hurt another in a just cause” – the just cause often, if not ultimately, being Scientology.
I suspect any “good” in Scientology comes from processes and techniques that have some power, but come with inherent dangers. Hubbard may well have known that any further scientific study of Dianetics and Scientology would have revealed that they produce more adverse outcomes than is acceptable by therapeutic standards. But by Hubbard’s utilitarian standards, in was acceptable if in making a few clears and OTs (for what that’s even worth), a few weak-minded people broke and went PTS, or ended up in the RPF.
I think I’m going to call this mental-spiritual Russian Roulette – a few people get an experience that’s a least a real high if not even transformative, but someone inevitably gets hurt very badly. That’s acceptable in Scientology’s underlying philosophy, and can of course be seen in the practices of the CofS. The hard question to ask of people like marildi, is if they’re okay with that – maybe they agree with Hubbard about it, or at least accept it, which would be interesting to know, but maybe they’ve never faced up to considering it.
I’m also making the comparison of the pursuit of the supposed “good” in Scientology, to the old alchemical pursuit of a way to turn lead into gold – attractive and even plausible in theory, but just not able to be done after many attempts and much trying, including the largely forgotten later work of some of the great early lights of Dianetics and Scientology like Jack Horner and David Mayo.
Sorry for the delay in replying you, PeaceMaker.
“I suspect any ‘good’ in Scientology comes from processes and techniques that have some power, but come with inherent dangers. Hubbard may well have known that any further scientific study of Dianetics and Scientology would have revealed that they produce more adverse outcomes than is acceptable by therapeutic standards. But by Hubbard’s utilitarian standards, in was acceptable if in making a few clears and OTs (for what that’s even worth), a few weak-minded people broke and went PTS, or ended up in the RPF.”
Thanks for sharing your viewpoints on it. I believe that any technique that gets one to look at the mind with the purpose to become aware of something, is workable to a greater or lesser degree in that it is capable of making unknown patterns of conduct known by the individual, and thus, renders him more conscious of them, so that he can do something about it to some degree. Based on that a analysis, I think that Scn processes are capable of producing new awareness (cognitions) of existing conditions which could be translated into what we call “wins and gains”. That’s the reason why people DO report having been helped with Scn, which I believe to be true.
Now, what we need to analyze is to WHAT degree it helps the individual, and if it is always helpful, or if it has instances of being harmful. My answer to that is, that it DEPENDS on the Scn process being analyzed. Most of the Grade processes – even though are incapable of such exaggerated and even silly “EPs” that LRH wanted us to believe – are harmless, IMOH. Most of them are capable of producing good changes IF delivered by REAL auditors who have freed themselves of the authoritarianism of “Standard Tech” and the alleged infallibility of the “E-meter”; in other words, if they are capable of thinking by themselves. I have no knowledge of such Grade processes having harmed anybody.
Of course, there are other methods of healing, self-improvement, or just spiritual growth, that are much faster than the Grades, more effective, and much, much, much, much, much less expensive than Scn. Sometimes even for free. So even though that there might be some workability to Scn in relation to lower Bridge auditing (“workability” as in “they can make you feel better and happier”, but NOT “super human”), the amount of hours it takes, the time, and its cost, makes it, IMOH, not “cost effective”.
Just to give you an example, a person COULD (I am not saying that everybody will) achieve the same (or even BETTER) results with “Meditation” if he knows how to really do it. Meditation is a subject GROSSLY misunderstood these days due to many “gurus” out there who only want to make a few bucks by selling books. You don’t see REAL enlightened teachers advertising themselves nor making money out of their spiritual teachings.
There is also – just to give you another example – something called EFT (“Emotional Freedom Technique”) which as silly and stupid as it might look at the beginning, I have learned that it has helped a LOT of people (it helped me in ways that I never thought possible), and if one is smart enough, one can learn to apply it to ourselves. Just make sure to use the tutorials of its original creator Gary Craig. I was able to handle something that I had been trying to handle with Scn for DECADES in less than 20 hours using EFT.
The problem with Scn processes is that they promises things that they normally just CAN’T deliver, thus sticking the individual’s attention to an “EP” that never really occurs. I don’t think that LRH’s intention was to fool others. I think that in his delusional mind he thought that he really had the solution to EVERYTHING, and that when it didn’t work, is was “violations” to “Standard Tech” that were at fault. He really believed this as delusional as it may sound. That’s why it is called a “Delusion”.
If people weren’t expecting these magnificent EPs, perhaps it wouldn’t have been so bad for them. What made them “bad” for many, was the high expectancy that never materialized. And this expectancy gets one to become anxious and severely introverted as one tries to find out “why isn’t it working for me as I want to?” BELIEVE me, I KNOW how introverted one can get. So much it is just unbelievable. The damage is not necessarily done by the processes themselves, but by the “waiting for something specific to happen that never happens”.
Now the “OT” levels is an ENTIRELY different story because these processes CAN bring a lot of harm to the individual in many insidious and unsuspecting ways. But this reply is already getting too long, so you would have to excuse me for not getting into the details of it now. But suffice to say, the OT levels are based on lies and delusions dressed up as facts “discovered” by an electronic instrument. I’ve seen these OT levels change many people for the worse, even to accelerate their deaths , or to make them insane. I have no problem if someone wants to do lower Bridge auditing. But I DO have GREAT concerns with someone adventuring on these insane levels.
As regards to Marildi and the such, as much as I am very knowledgeable in many spiritual practices, philosophies and different methods of spiritual healing, I have ABSOLUTELY no explanation for her behavior. This just eludes me as it eludes me the mentality of the KSW followers. It seems that I am not knowledgeable enough, 🙂
I
I think he is mentally in too deep. He goes in and out I am not sure if he knows what he is doing. What does his wife think about his actions as of late?
This saddens me too. Marty helped me in very profound ways and for that I will be forever grateful. I hope he gets all of this out of his system and then gets on with his life. After the first couple of videos, I decided not to watch any more of them. I backed away from this drama almost three years ago when I went back to college full time and now have my life to get on with. Thank you for taking the high road, Mike.
Wise decision.
Marty started acting weird much earlier. I had problems understanding Marty when he began with his philosophy books. They were a kind of Methadone for him.
https://barefacedmessiah.wordpress.com/tag/marty/
My words at the time:
“Marty’s writing style has changed in the last couple of weeks. I have to admit his blog has overall become weird and boring. Obviously there is a change going on. And his cautious stance to LRH’s dogmas becomes more and more visible.”
And I wonder why nobody seems to realise that the “My Scientology Movie” was actually about Marty and not about Scientology.
The outcome was very, very bad for him. Marty openly showed his personality and Louis Theroux didn’t hide it at all. Furthermore the discussion between the two, which possibly took place outside of the studio, was not against Scientology. Marty was the subject and it must have upset him like mad. I am sure, Marty feels the same way. He was tricked by Theroux.
Marty is still sitting on his big overts, the small ones are told. In Hubbard’s words I would say: “Marty’s witholds are constantly being missed.”
And gosh, they are too big to be dealt with.
Regarding the court case I only see two options:
a) He did it for his wife.
b) He accepted the Swiss bank account after being asked by his wife. Monique wouldn’t care as much as others. It wasn’t her fight. I would also have taken the Money if I had been her.
I completely agree with you about My Scientology Movie. I watched it long after him dropping the law suite and the rue the day remarks about Tony and his ASC posts. When I watched it I was like we are watching him on the edge of breaking before our eyes and his law suite behavior was much clear at that moment. He broke after filming stopped. It’s really tragic when you think about it. However nothing excuses trashing your friends
There’s a type of therapy called psychodrama that involves role-playing, and it can be really powerful in pulling up buried emotions. I’ve participated in it in a class I was taking, and even role-playing in that setting with a made-up scenario was very emotional. Jeff, your comments got me thinking that participating in that movie could have been a dangerous trigger given that it was outside of a therapeutic environment with no mental health supervision. Especially given that pretty much anyone who’s left Scientology has to have some PTSD effects going on.
When did that filming take place, in relation to the lawsuit and ruing business?
Filming was during the lawsuit and about a year before they fired the lawyers
I think you might be right. Did anybody see that during the filming the camera was always pointed at Marty and not at the “scene” of the movie. I think Theroux used Marty and exposed him for his benefit.
As my husband mentioned before, we met Marty just days before the premier of the documentary and he was very angry and upset. He was very harshly criticizing all anti- and ex-scientologists. After I saw the movie it made sense to me. I think he felt absolutely betrayed by the people that he helped with his blog and otherwise over the years, me included.
I feel sad about these developments and wish that he finds relieve of his anger and emotions and stops alienating friends and people that were always on his side.
IF Theroux’s movie WAS a catalyst (which I think is plausible, albeit highly speculative at the same time), I’m not sure Theroux could have necessarily anticipated the fallout that (we’re speculating) may have come after.
I can easily see Theroux thinking he was on to something golden from a documentarian’s point of view without realizing how fragile Marty’s grip was in keeping ahold of his sanity.
I think Theroux went in there to make a movie about Scientology and found his voice with Marty. Here was someone who left the cult but not the mindset. He also was not apologetic for his past actions. How could Louis not explore that. He had found his willing Scientologist. It just happened to be Marty.
No Jeff, that doesn’t give Theroux the right to capitalize on anyone’s weaknesses. That’s inhuman. How much better than the CofS are we if we start using people PUBLICLY in treacherous ways with the CORRUPTED viewpoint that the “end justifies the means”?
Rathbun WAS a part of the team who was HELPING Theroux to make that movie. Theroux found that Marty was apparently still being the unknown effect of the cult mindset, and USED him to advance his OWN selfish journalistic goals.
I can’t even believe how it is that you and a few others here are justifying such a CLEARLY unethical conduct.
This is EXACTLY why I keep on saying that many exes never REALLY left Scn. Because they STILL have embedded in their psyches the WELL known Scn attitude of lack of compassion and empathy.
Rathbun is very misguided in his new change of attitude and he WILL pay the price for that, make no mistake about it. A price that might very well encompass his sanity if he even has any remaining. But the fact that what he is doing is wrong, doesn’t give us the right to act and think in inhuman ways. He, like most ex Scientologists, is the victim of a VERY destructive cult. Some of us were strong enough to break free of the cult mindset; some of us are not that strong for whatever reasons, most of them having to to with their OWN blind spots in our OWN moral conduct. But the correct attitude to have is one of forgiveness and compassion. Rathbun also helped a lot of people to get out of the cult. He also helped to disseminate the lies of the cult. So now he changed gears? Well, that can only demonstrate the power of Scn to destroy the sanity of those who come in contact with it, even if such a contact is only as a critic ex Scientologist.
We should expose Rathbun’s lies, yes, we should not justify his betrayal to truth and to Human Rights. But we DON’T have the right to USE him as Theroux did. For me, Theroux is no better than the CofS. He lack honor and decency. He is NOTHING like Gibney, Mike, Leath and others. He is just an opportunist. That’s all he is.
Well, anyone who has seen Loius Theroux’s body of work would know before getting involved that he as an equal opportunity niggler and his sarcasm and sardonic style are the weapons he used to elicit responses out of people.
He interviewed me for his film too — just didnt make it into the final edit. But I looked him up before being interviewed and knew what to expect.
He is neither hero nor villian. He did what he does. Anyone agreeing to participate in filming with him should know beforehand what they are getting themselves into. You are correct, he IS an opportunist. He has made a successful career out of doing just that and doesn’t hide it from the world. It was not a “sneak attack” or “ambush interview” and if you have no control over the editing of whatever you appear in, you can often be disappointed.
Marty was NOT a novice dealing with the press, authors, journalists and documentarians. Not by any stretch.
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint on this, Mike; I can understand your point, and seeing it from that angle, one can see that Marty should have known better and should have anticipated all the possible scenarios. That being said, I personally don’t like that kind of journalism, and regardless of Theroux’s “success”, I would prefer to starve to death before using others that way to climb on my professional ladder. I think that there is an obvious difference among Theroux’s work and that of Gibney, Leah and Lawrence in terms of the general respect for human dignity. I would personally not recommend him as a “Safe Point” if you know what I mean. “Success” means different things for different people. For me, it is not measured in money, books sold, or number of amount of viewers, but rather in how much my work has influenced others positively, and brought them closer to a brotherly attitude towards their fellow beings. But that’s just me.
Louis Theroux made a film about behavior in a cult. He decided to reenact events that allegedly happened at Int. He let Marty write the scenes and chose actors that would show how things went down.
The scenes turned out were real and the actors
pulled it off, as could be observed by the emotions of the
participants and by Marty’s indicators and comments after the shots.
This was how it went down! This is the truth and tells you something about the human condition, which IMHO was Theroux intent as an artist and filmmaker.
However, it was also obvious to the spectator that Marty had himself been doing the very things he accuses DM of,
and it was only normal that Theroux would question Marty as to why he himself had been acting that way or how he felt when he punched Mark Headly on a sec. check. Marty’s response, “I hurt my fist… ” clearly showed he was not and is not ready to take responsibility and/or come clean.
Theroux and the spectators know this and there was no way the movie could let Marty get away with it and let him
be the hero of the piece.
I also was disappointed in the movie. His treatment of Marty made me feel uncomfortable. It probably wasn’t enough on its own to send someone ‘over the edge’, but combined with other things of a very stressful nature, maybe. Sabine, thanks for your personal account, and I share your wishes for Marty to find a more serene outlook on life and all in it.
Purely coincidentally, I happened to be reading a page at Marty’s blog (which I have seldom done before) – but I followed a link from somewhere and it was to a page from exactly 4 years ago. There were wonderful photos from Mike Rinder’s wedding, with Marty giving away the bride, the beautiful Christie, in stead of her father, with a heartfelt message from Marty. Such a happy time, such loving words, what an abrupt turnaround just 4 years later. Happy Anniversary Mike Rinder!
Thank you for this blog, where we can freely explore our ideas and tell our stories. Best wishes and love to all.
Sorry. That really sucks to watch a friend fall apart and know you cannot help.
His videos are indeed rambling. Unfortunate. 🙁
Spoken like a true gentleman.
Yes Mike, you have taken the higher road as Janis says. It is very sad to see what is happening to him and all I wish for him is that he gets the help he needs. He has done a lot to help many people get out of scientology or the SO and I am sure all those people will have empathy for him.
Mike, You are in a league of extraordinary gentleman and your measured response & personal restraint to not say any more than necessary…is about the classiest …and kind…retort that I’ve ever seen under the circumstances.
May you be blessed…whatever you do…and wherever you go…
Hear, hear 🙂
Thank you for addressing this, Mike. We have witnessed far too many human beings being shredded and broken before our eyes. One is too many. I’d hoped to never see another. I agree with you that there is something terribly wrong. You are good to remember those who helped you as you are helping us all now.
Thank you Mike. I know this must be difficult for many folks to see these videos.
I am sorry Mike. I nothing but the up most respect for you and what you do. Good luck with season two of Aftermath. Wish you the very best
Thank you making this comment. Very well stated.
THIS is how credibility is established and kept. Marty, take note, because at this point most of the people who are observing the whole issue consider you as a joke. That is a far step removed from your previous iterations of yourself.
Too true SA. PR is a delicate thing to do correctly if you want to play in the public arena. But your actions can turn out to be a blunt instrument of immense power against you which the public will never forget if it’s aligned with something gruesome. Marty has now associating himself with being pro Miscavige. In the field of public opinion, truth, facts and prior endeavors mean absolutely nothing. He is a very silly boy imo, but he has his reasons… insane or not, what you see him do in his latest escapade is what you get with Rathbun.
What is sad is that he is defending an organization that harassed him and Mosey, and called him a liar and a perjurer.
From my observations, he may be trying to just defend the subject of Scientology, and Hubbard’s record, rather than the CofS itself. For instance, all of his critical writings, are still up on his blog, as are videos that paint Miscavige’s operatives in a very negative light. We’ll have to see how this plays out – if anyone still cares.
All the stuff that paints Hubbard in a very negative light is also there.
Mike, I think Rathbun is defending Hubbard’s biography in a limited way, attempting to challenge attacks such as on Hubbard’s war record (though he seems to have picked a losing battle there) while apparently letting other criticisms stand.
He appears to me to be following in the same line of thought that we’ve heard expressed here recently by some loyalists, that despite all the terrible things about Hubbard that can no longer be denied, he wasn’t all bad and still left behind some valuable work.
The other familiar refrain, of course, is that the “good” in Scientology isn’t being given the acknowledgement it deserves. It occurred to me recently, that is similar to the old alchemical attempts to make gold from lead – attractive and even plausible in theory, but never actually able to be accomplished despite many tries.
I don’t think anyone can assume what Rathbun thinks, least of all Rathbun. He plays a very calculated game in a very dangerous environment. That in itself is motivation and can acts like an addictive drug. He disappeared for a few years and then suddenly reappeared with “guns a blazing.” Now he’s in the limelight again or so it appears. Ha… maybe what you resist you become has a wicked sense of humor. Trying to analyze insanity… defies the very term itself. Why is he doing what he is doing… probably the same type of answer as those people who climb frozen waterfalls in Utah.
jjg2012, What makes you think he is “defending the organization”?
An honourable response.
Well said Mike. The higher road is more pleasant to travel and has better views.
Agreed, Janis. For the past few years Marty has been kind of hard to figure out. Not any more.