A few days ago I posted something about David Miscavige’s response to the Tampa Bay Times — Miscavige Media Handling.
And now this. An article published in Business Insider yesterday continuing the discussion about John Oliver’s brilliant piece on televangelists and tax exemption. (And, in case you missed it, Oliver took another jab at scientology in his show last Sunday).
What is remarkable here is not the article itself. It contains virtually no new news other than an inaccurate statement from Anthony Ole, the president of Trinity Foundation where he seems to think scientology changed the law. It didn’t. But any article that keeps this subject of scientology’s exemption in the news deserves a round of applause. And the author ties together John Oliver, Lawrence Wright and Going Clear — and that is a sure-fire recipe for goodness.
But what is notable is the response from David “Karin Pouw” Miscavige.
Unfortunately, unlike the TBT, they did not publish the entire Miscav-o-gram because I am sure it contains plenty of amazing bubble statements, just like the TBT letter.
But here is what they DID publish:
The Church of Scientology, however, disputes the claim that it charges its members more and more money over time. A Church representative told Business Insider that Wright’s book was “sloppily researched.”
“First, the Church of Scientology should not be compared to the fundraising practices of televangelists. The Church of Scientology does no fundraising in the televangelist manner, so the comparison [is] inaccurate,” the Church said in a statement to Business Insider. “Second, due to the unique nature of its ministry, the Church of Scientology has found that a fixed donation system for participating in religious services is the fairest and most practical method of support.”
Now, let’s take a look at these words of wisdom.
The brilliant handling for denying that they “charge [] members more and more money over time” is that Lawrence Wright’s book was “sloppily researched.”
Hmm. I think one would conclude that your response was “sloppily non sequitur” and the alleged sloppy research in Going Clear has nothing to do with how much money you extract from your sheeple (and by the way, having read the book very carefully, there are a few inaccurate statements in it, but on the whole, it is remarkably accurate and certainly doesn’t approach the deliberate lies you can find on any page of a Miscavige speech or screen grab of scientology.org or Karin Pouw statement to the media).
And of course,there is the fact that this is just a lie. Everyone who has ever been involved in scientology knows that the higher you progress the more it costs you. By the time you get to OT 7 you are required to fork over for at least an IAS patron status in addition to paying at least $10,000 every six months for the pleasure of being sec checked at Flag… But who is going to quibble over a penny here or a penny there?
But here is the biggie. Miscavige’s clever parsing of words in the finest tradition of “I did not have sex with that woman.” Miscavige apparently chooses to define “televangelist manner” (an invented term to fit his logic here) as being a direct pitch into the camera on your broadcast sermon to mail in money with an address and phone number across the bottom of the screen.
It is true, he does NOT do that. And in his mind therefore, it is the height of unfairness (and no doubt bigotry) to lump him in with those detestable creatures who pitch for “seed money” on their TV shows.
But of course, the point is NOT the medium in which they make their pitch.
The point is that they pressure people into giving them money they cannot afford to give in the name of religion and “salvation” and they use it to buy planes, extravagant “parsonages,” expensive suits and flashy cars.
The point is that they tell people that if they hand over their hard earned cash, they will reap the rewards for doing so.
And that is exactly what happens 24/7 365 in the scientology bubble and it is expanding straight up and vertical. Regges are telling people that even though they are broken and their credit cards are maxed out that if they “flow” some money their “flows” will open up. They are telling them that to be prosperous they need to attend one of scientology’s prosperity seminars. That people “moving up the bridge” become “more able” and flourish and prosper and suddenly make money. They are telling them anything that will extract the dollars.
Now, if this is accomplished with TV sermons, smoke signals, internet messages of Nuremberg Rally style events isn’t the point. Again Dave, the point is that they fleece their flocks, accumulate massive wealth and are patted on their inevitable pompadours by the IRS with special tax exempt status.
By these measures, you Dave are a televangelist of the first water.
And just wait til you get your hands on on your own 24 hour scientology TV channel. You will have the final piece of the puzzle in place to become a full blown televangelist in EVERY respect (one suggestion, get Lou some REALLY big ole fake eyelashes and goops of mascara and have her sit beside you). I guess you wanted to fire off this letter before you yank the ribbon on the KCET studios so you still had a loophole to ram the big lie through.
Keep watching the video clip of Bill Clinton “I did not have sex with that woman” and then say into a mirror with feeling, “I do no no fundraising in the televangelist manner.” Repeat to EP.
And then there is the second part. The well-known fixed “donation” system for participating in religious services (let’s not bring up “Free Service, Free Fall”) is an interesting topic to raise. Especially as the majority of scientology income these days is NOT from payments for services, but handing over cash for the IAS or Ideal Orgs or CCHR or Book Campaigns or Planetary Dissemination or, or, or… It’s like the church claim “you can get service for free in the Chaplain’s Department”, yeah right. Every scientologist knows all about the free auditing (wink, wink) that is available at the same church of scientology where there is no such thing as disconnection.
But put all this aside. The reality is that everyone outside the scientology bubble who reads this response is amazed at the stupidity of it. Methinks he doth protest too much…
Apparently Miscavige’s media motto is: Why tell the truth when a lie will do?
Just for the hell of it, I pulled up one of the promo pieces sent to me by a Special Correspondent this week. It’s not an isolated example, there are dozens every week (just flip back through Thursday Funnies, there are usually a selection of similar “fundraising” posters).
Now, I ask you Dave, do you see ANY resemblance at all to the pitches from the televangelists?
Oh, and just a total coincidence, check out Tony Ortega’s blog this morning for the latest video from Aaron Smith-Levin which Tony titled “What lengths would a Scientology “registrar” got to pry $3,000 out of a 13-year-old?” More proof that scientology is nothing like those awful televangelists…
As the old saying goes, when it comes to scientology, it’s always worse than you think.
I think that with the dwindling enrollment that all these people will have a beautiful mausoleum when they join LRH on Target 2, or 3 or where ever he floated off to……..
I have an observation about their media machine. 3 days ago one of their Twitter pages that is blatantly a front has said why didnt Alex Gibney request a viewing of a church to see what they are really like yet a few years ago when a UK journalist wanted to do a piece on the church because he wanted to do find out about auditing and experience what life was like in the church they said no we want nothing to do with it, and in the end had to fly to another country in Europe to experience it in the freezone. What was funny the piece was part of a series of different religions rather then a bash the church program.
I do see the goodness in others, John. Even IAS bloodsucking regges. Even you, despite the fact that you insult me continually. I’m not a martyr, but I do try to see the good in everyone. I almost always succeed.
Hi Espiritu,I always like your posts.I like all posts here,even when some get me riled up.But I was thinking in Sea Org,there was total application of the Tech but all of us were also our own beings in our own valences at times too.So there I learned I would not always get on with everyone all the time.It was a completely different experience than any before or since.Because of the twists that happened to me,I try and see good in all also.But I am far from perfect so mess up still with stuff. Sometimes I just ignore the negative bombs,make them miss you.Keep posting I need all the wisdom and love I can get.XO Always Ann B.
Lol. Yes, I’ve seen you and your friends over at Milestone2. Why are you posting over here at the “Den of iniquity” as its called over there? I mean since Mike has gone over to the dark side…Should rename that site Taliban2.
I’ve had a brief tour of Milestone2 and it seems like a playground where scientologists can reinforce their scientology pretend reality on each other. I’ve left several comments in which I’ve criticized a few assertions and they’ve all been deleted without reply. I even challenged a guy (who said non-scientologists suppress creativity) to stand up and defend his statements and not run away like a typical “run and hide” Hubbardarian. Guess what I got? Crickets and deleted. LOL! They’re a bunch of milquetoasts who like to talk talk talk but can’t back up any of it, and THAT ladies and gentlemen is what you could call, ‘incapacitating indoctrination’.
Hi Roger Hornaday, Thank you for the info on Milestone2.I had no idea what that was and no desire to visit it.If I do post with some one from there forearmed is forewarned.Always, Ann B.
Hi Ann, I’m wondering if you were to post a comment at M2 (as an experiment) in which you called for the extermination of all those critical of scientology and Hubbard, would you receive sympathetic responses? I’m guessing you might be gently admonished that such a radicle solution should only be considered as a last resort! 🙂
Hi Roger Hornaday,Thank you for your suggestion.If I decide to ever post there I do see which way the wind may blow.Mike had a post where he talked about stopping abuse and real hurts within the cult.To be totally honest that is one of the reasons I decided to,post here.I needed to get out what had happened to me and also to many others who knew that Scientology also held the keys of abuse and pain : disconnection and total make-wrong.That is what I would like to see exposed.That is what haunts me still those events.I guess there will always be groups of those who feel their way is best.The trick for me is to walk my path amongst all the twists and turns of others and to know with a pure view that I may walk alone for a time but ahead of me are those who understand.I have to keep on and let others do their thing as long as they do not abuse or hurt in mind body or spirit others.OK going to go play with my16 yr old inside Siamese Cat Jade.She is always up for patting.XO Ann B.
Correct roger. Notice how he quickly devolved into wanting to get into a physical fight once he was trounced otherwise? Those Taliban over at Milestone are totally psycho. They ACTUALLY believe in that El Con trope that those opposed to Scamology & El Con MUST have secret felonies that they could be prosecuted for? If you take out their attacks on DM you could swear that your were listening to current CoS members jawing.
I hate to say that I told you guys about Milestone 2, but…well, let’s face it, these guys turned vehemently on Marty (who didn’t deserve any of what these little obergruppenfuehrers were dishing out), they turned on Mike when Mike turned out to be “impure”, and they refuse to deal with any criticism on the predication that it gets them involved in “games conditions”.
They are actually at the top of my destruction list, even above the cult. They’re out of the cult. They have no excuse for their behavior.
Well, I don’t think that anyone should be on anyone’s “destruction list.” The aim should be to stop ABUSES. As far as I know, Milestone 2 doesn’t reg anyone in bankruptcy, and while they may practice disconnection themselves, they are not enforcing the breaking up of families or costing people jobs. It is not a crime to be misguided or even ill-intentioned (I am not saying they are ill-intentioned) unless it HURTS people. That they complain about me or you or anyone else or won’t respond to fair criticism doesn’t condemn them to “destruction”. How is doing so any better than Hubbard condemning 1.1’s to be disposed of without sorrow?
If the people involved in Milestone 2 are not hurting others, then I have no beef with them. If they have a negative opinion of me for whatever reason, it hardly condemns them in my mind, and they have a LOT of company.
I don’t think one’s beliefs are a good enough basis for condemnation, only one’s acts.
Your aim is to stop abuses, which is a good aim. It just isn’t my aim. My aim is to stop Scientology. Its existence offends me as a scientist, as a gay man, as a military veteran, and as a human. I don’t care about the moral high ground. I’ll use any tactic available to reach my goal. I’m going to destroy them without sorrow before they have the chance to do the same to me. If you believe in Hubbard’s Tone Scale as written, you’re my enemy.
It’s just a matter of perspective, really.
I won’t wind up until you insult me to my face, Macho Man. Or then again maybe it will be a short jab. Or then again maybe I won’t bother.
John,
The term “Boomer” comes from the term “Baby Boom” referring to the children who were born to the World War II vets, a.k.a., “The Greatest Generation”. They had been so busy fighting a war to secure your right to free speech among other things that they hadn’t had time to start and raise families. When they came home at the end of the war, they made up for lost time which resulted in the “baby boom”. In fact my parents were both in the US Army when they met. I was one of those babies.
To characterize all of the children of their generation as “druggies” is insulting as well as untrue. It is a bigoted generality.
But then again, that’s your MO, isn’t it?
Every generation since then, including your own, and the one that is growing up today has had it’s own drug problems, some of them worse than the well publicized and sensationalized ones of the 1960’s.
Sorry John, but I did not get interested in Scientology for the reasons you state. I got interested in the subject in order to learn ways to improve my own life and to help others do the same. I found that it had very useful tools to help a person do that. That’s what interested me in the subject. No other reason. So, stop hiding behind Mike’s blog and throwing your hate bomb generalities at me, Jerk.
Hilarious Espiritu. Having El Con the criminal exposed really gets you wound up. Hmm, now THAT is interesting.
BTW, corruption of blood isn’t allowed in the US. The reverse also applies. 😉
For anyone still experiencing this problem who is unwilling to simple call the cops, I have a solution which I found worked great. One evening late at night there came a knock, knock, knocking on my door. I kind of figured who it must me and looked through the peep hole to verify my suspicions. It was a group of SO girls and ladies who I recognized as IAS blood suckers. I was in my underwear (just boxers, I swear) at the time, so I just opened the door and said enthusiastically ” HI ! “.
Immediately, they all either covered their eyes or turned away.
They left and never came back. Thank God for the prudish SO 2D policies.
Hi Espiritu,Thank you your post kept me laughing it was great!I guess the 2D Policies have really been ramped up since my SO Days.Back then those girls would have pounced on you!Always Ann B.
“IAS blood suckers”? I think that you should recognize the “goodness in everyone” Espi. LMAO
John,
You obviously have an agenda. That is patently obvious to everyone who posts on this blog at this point. We understand that. But unfortunately, your comments also seem to be rather “knee jerk” in nature. And, worst, you habitually insult anyone who does not share your viewpoint . I have a feeling that if I wrote, “There was an old woman who lived in a shoe. She had so many children she didn’t know what to do”, that you might automatically come out with some negative comment about L. Ron Hubbard, and then tell me that I am an idiot. Basically, you don’t seem to really listen to or address anything said that does not fit into your negative agenda. I doubt that you would dare to spew the personal insults you regularly dispense to others on this blog if we were having a discussion face to face. Perhaps at least recognizing the goodness in everyone would be in order.
Oracle,
You are always a voice of clarity and sanity. I love your posts. This one is no exception. It has been said that intelligence is the ability to perceive differences and similarities. Your comment, “The shortest distance between two people is humility” is a classic.
If only more people would heed this sage advice.
Humility is an issue in religion. You walk into almost any Church in America, you will be told that Jesus Christ is the leader of that Church. You walk into the Church of Scientology, you will be told David Miscavige is the leader of the Church, the religious leader. He doesn’t even credit Hubbard with being the leader of the Church of Scientology!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can tell you this from own personal experience, the most difficult thing for me to adjust to when I distanced myself from the “Church” of Scientology, was realizing what a complete asshole I was when I had to mingle with people from a real church. I said and the dumbest, stupidest, I mean, sometimes I wanted to punch myself in the mouth. Really. I wondered why people just didn’t slap my face sometimes. I had mingled with church people before Scientology, but that was before grade zero, so I never had conversations. Coming back in these groups as a motor mouth was disastrous. I was made to see how socially dysfunctional and arrogant I had become. Finally I just had to face the fact that I was an ass hole. And move up from there.
But here is Miscavige, positioning himself with Jesus Christ in his church. Calls himself a “religious leader”, the “leader” of the Church of Scientology. And relegates Hubbard to “founder” and stuffs his belongings into a museum to drive the point all the way home.
Humility, not. Religious, he is not. Peer to Jesus Christ, he is not. Leader, he is not. Counselor or minister, he is not. Sea Org member, he is not. There is no “Board” in fact, so he isn’t even the Chairman of any Board!
Hi The Oracle,Wow you are as hard on yourself as I can get with myself looking back at things I said and did while in.Your posts always speak to me because they are honest real funny insightful and true.What you say about humility is so strong.The more I was abused by the former then the GOI that became OSA, although I’m not sure,it was at those tough times that the humility I had buried helped me cope.The more that was piled on me I became quieter and began to close down because I could feel humility again but those on charge would not know it if they tripped over it.That is one reason I feel David Miscavige is so out of control and dangerous.He has no soul and he has no check and balance all he has are billions of $ and the meanest streak seen in many a year.He has allegiance to no one but David.I find the celebs worship of him so convoluted and appalling.Giving up your kids your marriages your essence to play around with David knowing he has all the goods on you via cameras auditing folders and spys so you can never be free of him,Sad and still very scary to me.XO XO Always Love,Ann B.
Right on, Oracle!
It is high drama now, and interesting to watch. I have learned a lot about people, their wants, trust and treason. When I first became involved, it a highly symbiotic culture. So, I know people can make it that way. It was not wholly symbiotic, but highly symbiotic. That reversed it’s self somewhere along the line, I think now there are many reasons and I find out more as time goes by.Replacing div 6 staff with video equipment surely had to close down every lobby. “Your terminal here is a television monitor” is actually a menacing greeting. Laughter! But I have so many good memories, and I met so many incredible people. I can not bring myself to think I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I know others had a different situation, were more devoted too. Gave more than I did and did more than I did. Were set up for losses I was not. I believe their stories too. I didn’t come in from a good place. Other’s were in a good place before they came in. But for everyone, the culture became less and symbiotic. Among these ruins I still find good company, good conversations, and good people. That is a lot more than the people in the Church have. A lot more than a lot of people have. The things that were truly valuable, we did not leave behind in loss. We took it with us when we left.
Speaking of media madness, I think Miscavige has probably figured out by now, that it is easier to put a world famous Movie Star in your pocket, than a world class P.R. man.
At the end of this most sad P.R. chapter for Scientologists, who have all been burdened and taxed by Miscavige’s out P.R. and ill repute he has bought upon the Church, (that pays him so very handsomely per his own orders), what do we have as a sum total?
Tom Cruise will always be remembered as a world famous movie star.
Mike Rinder will always be remembered as a world class P.R. man.
Miscavige will always be remembered as a world class bully.
That group shot of the Valley org (AND every org’s never-ending-handling-of-central files “backlogs” going on now for 22 years) looks like it’s all of the people who got in to scientology through the missions of the 70s. I have observed that those people are the die-hards who came in got wins fast and lasted with the hippies era of peace and love in their hearts to not give up on building a more loving world. If scientology lasts it’s my opinion that it will be because of these 70s era public who know for sure that the tech gave them wins and that it must be saved. I just wish they’d take that energy and focus it on the correction of the internal beast they’ve ALL seen it become.
Good observation Gayle that demographic you are writing of was the LAST group (of any measurable size) to enter scamology. >90% of them were drug users who, upon coming off drugs to do basic courses experienced “huge wins”. (I guess when you stop frying your brain cells you feel better). That was the end. The boomers who were born in the early 60’s didn’t fall for scamology (in the statistical sense) and neither did any generation after. I started on services in a Mission group around that time period. 95% of the people were that demo. I checked back last year (where I started) and their are a lot less of them but still the same group except for a few of their now grown children. Very few of those.
They hung around trying to go OT hoping to get what they got when they came in scn and got off drugs. The people who came in later who were not druggies, for the most part didn’t stay in scn long. That is why all the pics coming out today are populated by boomers in the main.
Bob and Jan Hall of Sacramento filed bankruptcy – the only thing they had left was their home which was underwater due to borrowing every ounce of equity they could when real estate prices were high – they eventually were able to get a loan modification to reduce their monthly payments – last I knew Bob was no longer auditing on OT7 due to financial restraints…but then again last I talked to him was a couple of years ago when he was making a list of the flawed workmanship at the Sac IDEAL org due to the landlord’s office having hired slack “contract” labor by the cheapest non-scientology building contractor they could find – but still charged more than the $50/wk Miscavige’s minion laborers get (when their stats are up) – which contract ended in dispute due to lack of payment! My, my what a surprise!
Am I the only one who has to wait to get a comment approved? Usually takes a few hours.
No, it all depends on when I look at them.
Comments seem to be approved fairly quickly on this blog, but I wonder if there is a way to “auto-approve” comments from certain posters, like trusted commenters that are well known to make good posts and so forth, a small list of regulars (not me, I haven’t been here that long and might go crazy and write a bunch of gobbldey-gook) oopps… like that. :p
Nope — I have to read (or at least glance at) every one.
I have really benefited hugely from my involvement in Scientology. But I love puzzles. And I have always had a “faith”, that the things laid before me, are for a good reason and purpose. I have always had a feeling, that I have been in favor with the Gods. I would not have, if it were not for some miracles I witnessed. At one point this truth became so apparent to me, I could no longer suppress it.
There are evil people in the world. I do not think Hubbard was one of them. He was gifted and flawed in balance. Like all of us.
People really have to grab their own qual hat. Every night when I lay down in bed, I ask myself how I have a liability to myself, and/or others that day. There is always something there to confront.
The shortest distance between two people is humility. Perhaps that is why, “giving up a crime”, restores proximity. I do not think it is about the overt with hold or crime. It is about the humility.
There is a very thin line between humility and self abasement. And a very wide distance at the same time. You really have to be able to walk a tight rope. And measure spaces and distances.
I do not think David Miscavige has these capabilities.
Oracle, I’m glad that beating your wife, kidnapping, threatening to cut up a baby into pieces to be thrown into the sea, having your other wife go to Fed prison for YOUR crimes, et al (other felonies too numerous to list) doesn’t make one “evil”.
I was getting worried! LMAO at Ron Bots.
Eckhart Tolle in his book “A New Earth” talks about how people have a propensity to label people and things and thus dismiss them out of hand. This arrogant attitude prevents really looking at people and just being willing to let them be who they are without any commentary to the good or bad. Just let them be. He also says that by immediately pigeon-holing or labeling people, it hurts not only them but yourself because you have denied yourself an opportunity to really know someone as they truly are, and have denied yourself to really look at other’s opinions as a way of possibly enlarging your own understanding. But if you think you know more than all others, that you know it all, and you are better than all others and thus have to label them, then you will never be in real ARC with anyone. By calling anyone who voices a win with the tech for instance, those people you call “Ron Bots.” I’m sorry but I can’t distill all of Ron’s actions and writings down to a one or two word epithet. And Oracle, keep writing. I love your posts now and in the past and probably will love your insight into the future. Your underlying intention is not to tear down but to build up, a lesson we can all learn from.
Cindy, Thank you for the info on the new book! I will order it today. I have read his earlier ones and they were very helpful to me. And thank you for the kind acknowledgement.
I have been going through my own times with current discrimination, in the form of attitudes. Some comments. I am living and working as a minority, in a very religious culture right now that is not my native religion. And I have had to bear the burden of seeing discrimination hit my children and husband too. And at the same time, I am in the position of contributing to them as a duty. So I have to defend them, from hate against them. And work on improving their public relations. It is quite a balancing act.
I really do love these people and admire them. They are good people and they have created a wholly symbiotic culture. .And 98% of them have been very kind to me. It pains me to know they get attacked, harmed and suppressed. But being who I am, I am perceptive to attitudes and “subtle” comments.
I think you have seen both of my sons. Two days ago I was at an event, all of the people there were white, and in that city I think all of the people living there are white. I took my son with me, and my son is white too. Which you know. Can you believe some woman walked up to me and made a derogatory comment to me about my son not looking “white” enough? And she began to interrogate me as to the origins of my husband.
It takes a lot to put me into a mode of speechlessness, but there I was. You can fill up a room with clean, affluent, well dressed white people, and one of those people will attack someone for having dark hair. I just never knew the want and need to unmock others, could go that far south. I would not have believed it if I did not see it for myself.
When it comes to “Scientologists”, those people are not just “Scientologists” either. They are someone’s child, someones father, someone’s mother, someone’s uncle or aunt, sister or brother. They are working for a living at their craft. They are professionals. Mike Rinder wasn’t just a “Sea Org Member”, if you look at the video of his address in Ireland, you can see he is also one the greatest P.R. people on the planet. Given he has had some nutrition and air.
I don’t think it is possible to degrade someone completely by calling them a “Scientologist” or a “Ronbot” or a “darkie” or any other slur meant to unmock them. Because always behind that, there are many facets to their existence that make them so much more.
We women that have children understand better, that everyone you meet in this world is someone’s child too. And they were that before they ever became something more.
Cindy, I label violent, insane felons just that. If I personally encounter them I do more than label. You may deal with them as you see fit.
Hubbard was a flawed but gifted man. Complicated and misunderstood by many, he only wanted all of mankind to live in peace, to flourish and prosper as he himself did. Sure, he made a few mistakes, haven’t we all? He didn’t invent the idea of granting beingness to people but he spoke of it as he spoke of many lovely ideals, that’s how we know what kind of man he REALLY was. He invented engrams so we could get rid of them and be “clear” and when that didn’t pan out as desired he invented body thetans and OT levels so we could get rid of them and attain higher states of consciousness than any human being ever experienced before. He did all this for us and all he asked in return was that we accept everything he said unquestioningly and adopt a contemptuous attitude toward the outside influences of entheta and standard philosophical reasoning. In other words, he gave us the “tech” and now mankind has a means to achieve the happiness and joy exemplified by its founder. How can anybody call him evil??? (rotten to the core maybe)
Hi Water Your Crimes,Each person has their own experience with Ron.Perhaps somewhere in him,he did have an urge to help mankind.But as one who knows as do many many here on Mike’s Blog,Ron knew how to use evil when he wanted to.Good luck on your path.Ann B.
He was a master at smoke and mirrors! He bombarded us with pedantic speeches and so much “tech” that it took legions of SO to only now (-hahaha) be able to “correctly” document that “carefully taped path” that he promised us was in place – some fifty years ago!!!! Not one true “clear” (including LRH) as defined in DMSMH, has EVER been made. With the truth right in front of us the whole time, it’s still amazing how many of us fell for his snake oil!
Oracle, I disagree with your statement that Hubbard was “gifted and flawed in balance, like all of us”.
I don’t think we are all “in balance”, nor was Hubbard. In your opinion then, Miscavige is also “in balance”?
Hubbard was smart enough to invent interesting “tech” and crafty enough to sell people on his ideas and amass a lot of money.
But I don’t think his primary motivation was altruistic. I believe his main goal was to make money (based on his own writings and statements).
Miscavige is canny enough to take the movement and keep it going for the past almost 30 years, and became very wealthy in the process. But he isn’t creative enough to devise “tech” as Hubbard did.
I’m glad to hear that you feel you benefited from Scientology, but I think you have to admit that there are huge negatives in it for many people. To name a few: disconnection from families and children. Depletion of personal savings, creating serious financial problems for people. Actual harm done, both physical and psychological (Lisa MacPherson? Nancy Many? Deaths at Narconons?)
People can “benefit” from almost anything, if you consider increasing knowledge a benefit, and one can learn from everything, even if what you learn is just that what you’ve done is a waste of time and money.
So what was the point of this post? Heck if I know.
Good point and fair. No, I do not think Misgavige is balanced with flaws and gifts. When I used the term “all of us”, he was the furthest thing from my mind. I view him as a separate species. A separate program.
Yes there are negatives and they are held in place. Every day. Policy is supposed to support purpose and the “Commander” of the (few) soldiers ,can’t think with an admin scale. What can I say? He is all the way down into “Ideal” scenes, to hell with purpose, goals, and everything else. I do NOT see him as an example to follow. He is not very bright as some people have implied. I would think that has become very obvious. He thinks power is getting people to listen to him!! Who may I ask, listens to him? Kim Kardashian has a larger following. By his own measure he is a total failure. .
The fact that he shows his face at muster in front of those staff, on a daily basis, with out them having a clue as to the damage he has done and the ill repute he has burdened them with, and the “good will” stripped of the Church, whatever good will had been created, and he comes to these musters and faces these people swirling in complete fraud as their “savior”, is an indicator of how very desperate and cowardly he is willing to be, for the sake of a little applause. That, I admit, is extraordinary. And very sad. For crying out loud the Church had to pony up money to pay for his Facebook likes.
Yes, I agree that Hubbard was greedy and out exchange. Is any company out here had free labor they could keep the doors open. But I am fine with my exchange that I got from walking the halls of Scientology. The auditing worked for me. What can I say? Some people pay for sex, some people pay for food, fancy cars, vacations, etc etc. I paid for conversations. I paid to learn something from an experience. I appreciate that I had that choice, the freedom to make that choice. And I am glad everyone has the freedom to write their own review.
The point of the post? The conversation?
What everyone else said.
*at least Bob Tilton is worth a few chuckles as he cons the senior Christian folk. (yes, he really said that midgets got bigger!)
Then how in Xenu’s balls do they explain this?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z9o6J4R3u28
Directly out of the mouth of the beast.
I had noticed that $cino ‘flows’ were similar to the ‘prosperity preaching’ that televangelists do, But Mike is perfectly correct, they aren’t similar, they are exactly the same. An excellent example of ‘true equivalency’, as opposed to the usual ‘false equivalency’ in so many clam writings.
Now that Jon Stewart and Dave Letterman are gone, I will look to John Oliver for my weekly $cieno jokes. And Mikes Thursday funnies.
I would never go to any event that featured a c-note. I just can’t sing that high…..
Hi Mike, I had a thought.Some may love this blog,some may like this blog,and some may hate this blog so intensely they lose any sense of reason or spirituality.I love it because you welcome all viewpoints.The trolls and my Rats may dance here but you know when to escort them out the door.Seriously since I collided with your blog I have seen and felt a shift in the wind,better reset those sea anchors.Perhaps not in my life time but Mike in yours and Christe’s and your children’s lives this Cult Will Not Stand.Always Love Ann B.
Hi Mike, Sorry Christie this IPad gets a time out and has to clean toilets.XO Ann B.
Miscavige comes from the mold of
Border Radio “Reverend Ike”
Blessed are the Rich, Damned are the Poor !!!
Send me $100. cash,check or money order now
for a self autographed photo of Jesus
and a sticky back glow in the dark cross !
Amen!
When DLMDM is in jail I want them to put a tv in front of his cell playing nothing but televangelist programs! 24/7!
There are a couple of other interesting parallels here.
Legitimate churches collect money to pay the bills that arise from offering services to their constituency, as well as providing charitable services to the church and community at large. Congregations are encouraged to contribute according to their means–kind of like progressive voluntary self-taxation where the better-offs support the lesser-so’s. Nobody is left out from spiritual progress due to their inability to pay. However, both televangelists and scilons make it perfectly clear that if you don’t pay up (in advance!), you will be spiritually stunted.
Legitimate churches offer no quid pro quo. You give voluntarily. Why? Because it’s the right thing to do. Not because you’re “seeding” or unplugging your “flow.” You are not given any promises of financial return. Televangelists claim that the more you give, the more you’ll get for yourself. Scilons claim that the more you give, the more you’ll get so that you can give that to us too.
Legitimate churches make financial needs known and then don’t dwell on the topic. Televangelists and scilons alike will harass the shit out of their “congregation” with constant campaigns to give more. They also offer gimmicks, whether they be prayer cloths, gaudy jackets or hideous trophies. These gimmicks may serve as status symbols–although even televangelists will not go there.
The most important thing televangelists and scilons have in common is the total lack of oversight and accountability. Legitimate organizations (not just “real” churches) can (and will) account for the purposes for which money was collected, and how it was actually spent–even if the IRS does not require that. These decisions can NOT be made by one person alone. The books are open to the congregation to inspect.
And this of course, once again, brings us to one of the defining characteristics of any cult: One person gets to make all the decisions. It’s no longer about God. It’s about that one human having the power to dispense or withhold salvation, lord it over people (or disconnect their families) and provide their path to success.
Politicians love to claim that they are “public servants.” Prisons are full of politicians who served themselves a bit too enthusiastically (and got caught–too few of them). Ministers are supposed to serve their congregations and the world at large. That and only that is the meaning of their title and job description! Televangelists and scilons not only fail at that criteria. They don’t even try!
On a lighter note: That C-note Sunday picture is pretty interesting. At the risk of stereotyping, I’ll say it anyway: the people in that picture kinda look like the rubes you would find in a televangelist crowd.
Hi Todd Cray,I enjoy your posts and understand the tie in with other groups re oversight snd accountability.However perhaps those in the picture are rubes yet the pull of cis is like a lava flow you either go with it or get burned to a crisp.I do see and agree with your post,my point is the layers of Dianetics And Scientology are so much deeper and darker than people want to confront.The people one sees today in these promo pieces are not promoting Scientology they are promoting themselves.The IAS was way after my time, but that is such a colossal scam there is no way in hell I would have promoted it as a letter reg.I,would be ten feet under before I ever followed any order given by David Miscavige,Always Ann B.
Hi Todd Cray, My Rats are at it again. Should be cos in my sentence and the word and.Still a letter reg but free!Always Ann B.
Hi Ann: Thank you for your nice responses to a couple of my posts.
I couldn’t help myself from commenting on this group. I’m not sure what it is but there is something really “dead” (for lack of a better word) in their eyes. They strike me as a bingo crowd in one of those facilities where people go in and never come back out. Which of course would be a fitting metaphor for the cult…
It’s all just too unbelievable to comment on with any conviction. The lies spewing forth from Captain miscavige’s ship of peril know no bounds.
In a weird sort of masochistic way I’m kind of looking forward to the scientology TV station. It will be a never ending source of wonder just how degenerate and debased that organisation continues to devolve into something even more uglier than ugly – sort of like home shop for the suicidal. Good grief!!
Heard an interesting line in a movie recently – “if it has no solution it isn’t a problem”. Fortunately there is a solution for the church of scientology – erasure.
I nominate Dan Sherman for Sientology’s televangelist!
I can see it now. Dan Sherman as a Televangelist:
I’m sensing something! I’m…I’m getting a picture of someone is distress. It’s getting clearer! It’s…it’s Gloria Medina! (Gloria stands up). Gloria, what you need to do to assure your future of eternity is to give a MINIMUM of $50,000 to the IAS, another $50,000 to the Idle Morgue scheme. Another $50,000 to COP for all he’s done for you. If you do this, you WILL be saved! Also, you need to redo the SRD, Student Hat and the purif. What’s this, your 4th or 5th time in the purif? Way to go, Gloria! BTW, Gloria, how old are you now? What was that, 75? Really? You don’t older than 70…
(everyone standing and clapping)
My first impression of the c-note oldsters was: How many would survive another purif re-do? Not a pretty picture! 😛
That’s a shocking thought, Sir Up. Not many, I reckon.
Getting raped and swindled by organized crime apparently is fun! Look at those Scientology customers with happy smiles-for-the-camera as they get fucked out of ever more money.
Actually, Michael, it costs $30,000 a year to be “on the level) Solo Nots. because of the 2 6 month check 74 questions that must each swing the needle 3x GAT procedure. The $30,000 does not include other enforced reg cycles for all the *Causes.*
Hi Karen#1, Your post really made me think.In 1974 Sea Org Days my $25,000 adding a few more checks on was considered quite good to donate when I was joining SO.I feel that what is being sold now it just feels so different from what I pushed from 1974-1978.I had enough trouble with electricity and the scam meter but the auditors who did figure me out we burned some rubber.Then The Guardians Office Intell gave me a whole new set of parameters.I had so much much sec checking the 74 questions reminded me of that time.Wild unpredictable and dangerous.I love all your posts.Always Ann B.
True. My husband was on OTVII and it cost him a little over 30,000 a year. He set aside 3,000 per month to cover the cost of “the level.”
I should add that he is auditor trained and doesn’t get into trouble. However, one will find it difficult to be on the level for a period of time where trouble will not find the person.
One day, he left a worksheet on the desk and left his auditing room which was locked with the alarm set. He quickly realized that the worksheet was out and went back in and put it away. He had to report himself to ethics for his out-security.
For his ethics cycle, which was done by an 18 year old girl, he was told that he had to pay $20,000 for books in order to get out of his lower condition and be allowed to continue on his auditing. He refused to pay his way out of lower conditions and was not allowed to audit. He had to make a special trip back to Flag to call their bluff by telling them that he would turn in his materials and get off the level for good. It worked.
There was also the Flag directive that was forced on the cash cows – OT 7’s, that they had to be Patrons of the IAS.
They got $40,000 out of him on that one. He fell for it, believing that if he didn’t pay for Patron – which he didn’t want, he would be taken off the level. This was what he was told at the time.
Later, he found out other people didn’t pay it and they were allowed to stay on OT7. To my knowledge, the people on OT7 are still asked to become a Patron of the IAS.
Sorry, but I forgot to add that while on OTVII, my husband was regged for FUEL for the Freewinds too.
These guys have no limits. Embarrassment is a non-existent concept to them.
Hi Pepper, An amazing post in fact I felt sick after reading it.All is now money for cos, not that it was not in the pas but now reminds me of S& H Green Stamps your Mom might know of that.Every bit of this cult is a total scam and then some.What you are telling me about IAS and what happened to your husband is unbelievable for me. The Smoke & Mirrors deep space, amazing insight ,help mankind get to another planet where all really love & understand you,all that which I know now was bs but at the time it was my world,all that has been boiled away to nothing but give me your money.The biggest Beings On The Planet are right here on Mike’s Blog Always Love Ann B.
This is the ultimate R-factor (reality factor) for Scientology: “When it comes to scientology, it’s always worse than you think.”
That sums it all up. The phrase should be the Church’s official tag line.
SERIOUS QUESTION:
Does anyone have certain knowledge of someone who has filed bankruptcy as a result of turning over too much money to scientology? Not looking for “I heard that this guy might have filed bankruptcy…” but real first-hand knowledge. I am not looking for documentation, your personal knowledge is good enough.
If for some reason you do not want to post the details in the comments, email me directly.
Richie Acunto
https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/83026/Richard_J_Acunto
@John Locke That bankruptcy you refer to was a Chapter 11 business bankruptcy for Infinity Insurance with him as the sole owner, it was dismissed (Debtor abuse) but he did file again in California Central Bankruptcy Court, Chapter 7 on April 17, 2015 2:15-bk-16052 and it is already being challenged by several Creditors.
Interesting Valerie. I knew he filed BK personally. Wrong link.
Way to appeal to the bingo demographic, COP. Nothing but half dead bodies in the shop!
Long answer here Mike,
Bob Hall and Rod Daniells had a construction company called IDEAL BUILDERS in Sacramento back in the 90s. They were big on running it on standard teck! Rod was also heavily regged for everything including the BC.They went belly up and filed bankruptcy and Rod moved to LA and started another company repairing chimneys damaged by the Northridge quake. When the chimney work ran out and he was still trying to finish the BC he re-joined the SEE OGRE to become a Freakwinds auditor. He couldn’t file bankruptcy again because of the recent one in Sac.
Then in 2006 he left the cult again and my wife and I took Lori and Rod in (put them up in our house and gave them both jobs). By 2009, I was being sec checked at Clive Rabids Flog World Tours and my wife was being hounded to donate without my knowledge because she was the big being. Rod and Lori’s son Adam was getting his wife Mira pregnant at Flag so he could leave the SO and once he was out, went to work on his mom and dad to figure out how to wrest control of my business from me ( Rod deserved to be a full partner because he was my brother-in-law and was a Class VI and was a really sincerely nice guy)
When that didn’t happen Lori went to work on Sheri (my wife and her sister) to discredit me because I spoke poorly of the cult and was just a mouthy guy in general. Besides, her sister (Sheri) had more money than she did and I would not give half my business to her husband. The cult (spelled Julian Schwartz) also went to work on me along with Sheri, Lori and Rod, my kids Haley and Phil and Rod and Lori’s kids Ken and Adam Daniells. Then Mike Sutter, Marion Pouw, Hansuli whatever his name is really began a job to salvage or DA me.
Rod ended up having a heart attack (yes, working for me was too stressful) so he left and moved back to LA in the Fall of 2012 where he is working on creating his next bankruptcy. But he is now closer to source so that should help.
He has another construction company which he formed in partnership with a guy (forgot his name) who is a contractor/scientologist from New York back in 2012. Now Rod is filing suit against him because he wants full control of the business rather than only being a partner. I suppose he is on course and helping Valley go Ideal and he did purchase a full new set of the PDCs not long ago so we shall see whether he can avoid another round of bankruptcy. Rod also has his son Ken working for him and Ken completed the Model of Admin Know How from the Hubbard College after he finished working for Tom Cruise back in the late nineties. So they have some stellar Scientology credentials and the business should do at least 47x.
Yo Julian,
Better get those Daniells folks on the bridge and winning on course so they can really boom the business!
Got the question, Mike; roger and will do.
1) I knew a guy who declared BK after donating for his Ls at Flag. He declared BK because he couldn’t keep up with the payments for the amount of money that all of the Ls cost. This was over twenty years ago.
2) I think televangelists are insulted with the $cientology comparison. They would never do something as tacky as a “C-Note Sunday”.
Tony Ortega has a new post up about Tom Cruise showing up in Bogota ideal org. You may remember this post on 26 July?
Why Bogota? https://www.mikerindersblog.org/why-bogota/
T.C. is going to leave scamology Boots first…
Mike, is there a secret level beside OT8 where the EP is: ” I know the other better, than he knows himself.”?
Valley Org should have added “Free Oxygen” to the flyer.
Wait…what??? You mean they don’t advertise “Free Oxygen?” Oooohhhh baby! Someone’s in for a looooooonnnng sec check!
Thank you for the accurate description of how David Miscavige gets money for his cherch. He and his lawyers are really the only ones who benefit from the fund raising. Miscavige is a crook and no matter how much he protests the truth about him and his cherch is being disclosed far and wide.
Hi Dean! The ONLY thing that works in scientology are the lawyers…
OSD, your on a roll today .
Every so often, Gary, this old surfer dude does get on a roll. But with so much material coming from the cult, I do have give them props! Every day there’s something new and stupid coming from them. I’m never, ever at a loss for material.
A home run Mike. Terrific article and link. Thanks!
Just in case anyone wants to try to defend the COS and say that the promo featured above is not what the Church of Scientology is really about, take a look at the fine print in the black bar at the bottom of it.
Here you will see the copyright info. Scientology owns the trademarks to the symbols used in the promo. Look at the Scientology cross on top of the handful of c-notes! The church has ‘ownership’ of this promo featuring it’s parishioners cheerfully engaged in the typical money grubbing activities, which are the order of the day in the Church of Scientology.
The church is prideful, it has no shame.
Brothers and Sisters, can I hear an Amen?
Hi Pepper,Amen x I billion!XO Always Ann B.
Hey Ann – I was happy to hear your good news recently. Stay well and HUGS.
Hi Pepper,Thank you so much.You always send sweet thoughts my way and I’ll flow the same x 1 billion to you and your Mom.I will try my utmost with full Intention that this body has some more miles to go.Now if I can just do the same with the old brain.You are good for my soul.Look forward to,your posts always.
Hi Pepper,Forgot my name!Always Ann B.
Amen to that!
Amen, Pepper! Amen!
Amen, sista
Hi Mike,A brilliant piece today.You nailed David’s take on televangelism perfectly.Now I am part of that baby boom crowd but when I saw C-Note Sunday I swear I had to run and eat some prunes,try to remember where the heck I put my purse to take to C -Note Sun because I just live to donate to the cos.Better round up my canes that I keep for my eighties & beyond,with the food and drink that will keep me happy all day,did Big Being Bob Duggan spike the food and drink with happy pills?That crowd is so thrilled that they will not have to have a CF Party in conjunction with the CNote Sun.And I too love I’ve image of the empty classroom in the mirror.Alice’s looking glass telle the truth.Empty seats =bodies not in the shop!Always XO Ann B.
They were told if they posed for the picture they could go home and enjoy their Sunday .
Scientology …. Now is all about the money. Is no compassion no philosophy no nothing! This is the religion of the Duggan’s, the Cardone’s, the Feshbecks and you name – is money money money And you are completely right:
“when it comes to scientology, it’s always worse than you think.”
http://youtu.be/-0kcet4aPpQ
From the promo pics it appears that “Miss I’m NOT a Televangelist” is targeting the Social Security checks of the retired. Anew low for the Cult of Scamology.
John, I know if they try hard enough they can, indeed, go even lower.
I can see it now OSD. DM sitting at his desk drinking heavily while pondering an even worse scam than his last.
Oh, no doubt! But, maybe, just maybe, he’ll drink himself into a coma.
Can someone explain c-note to me and how that works? The pic seems to shows a penny share boiler room in action just with old people and no young go get ’ems
It’s a fundraising “game.” You come into an Idle Morgue with a 100 dollar bill (or many 100 dollar bills) and donate it. Then, when you’ve done that, they ask for your first born male child to report to the SO.
dyir, old people are about all they have left. These folks have Kool-Aid woven into their DNA and can’t see what’s being done to them. Scientology is graying quickly…
OSD – They don’t care if your child is male or female! It does have to be breathing. The Cult simply wants anything and everything you produce…..time, money, kids, what else ya got?????? then they come for you.
Yo Dave,
Eat my shorts good buddy.
LMAO!!! Indeed, they want EVERYTHING! And will not accept anything less. I do have a question, though. You said, “It does have to be breathing.” Really? I thought Hubbard said with the “tech” you can raise the dead! And then put them to work, I guess…
John Oliver takes a shot at Scientology every week. I love it!
John Oliver is ruthless when it comes to the cult! This guy, REALLY, pulls no punches! I wish he’d talk about Tom Cruise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHXHlqybK1Y
As far as the 10 C-notes are concerned, I’ll keep my grand and raise you 2 statuses.
Join the FUN!!! (insert picture of smiling octogenarians)
“Hi my name is Clammy Kool Aid and I’m calling you so you can join us for C-NOTE SUNDAY it’s a BLAST here’s how you play you send us your money in amounts divisible by 100! hello? hello? are you there? hello? oh well…..Hi my name is Clammy Kool Aid and I’m calling you….”
LMAO Roger
You nailed it Roger. And that folks, is the way it is inside this cult.
https://youtu.be/uzWJAcwi_Yw
Oh man!! This one hit me hard.
First off the COP IS like a TV evangelist and that pompadour is perfect.
Secondly, I have to admit that I bit on all the “science” in scientology but ultimately I was had, just like the poor little old lady watching TV at home and sending in her rent money so CHeezuss would have mercy on her.
My bad.
Don’t sell yourself short. It takes a lot of science y to enslave people. It’s just that they weren’t teaching the science, they were using it.
Televangelists are saints compared to RCo$. At least they are up front about wanting your money for their “ministry”.
RCo$ on the other hand openly lie, and have been known to steal (unauthorized credit card transactions) and if you protest it’s off to the MAA and Sec Checking (at your expense of course).
They abase the very concept of a “Religion”. Their Regges are the most dispicable people after the demeted midget.
Do I point out the obvious……the average age of the volunteers at ‘C-Note Sunday’ is 70…
Ah, C-Note Sundays! I remember those growing up in my Catholic parish……..wait a sec…….
As Peter Griffin might say, this really grinds my gears….
https://youtu.be/Q685Ko2DHDs
That John Oliver piece is brilliant. He really nailed it.
Howard Becker and Michael Roberts do that exact schtick on stage and in the back room reg sessions.
Becker even came to my home very late one night and was bragging about how much money he made and donated back to the IAS. He attributed his wealth to his flows.
You have done some brilliant work putting it all together, Mike. This one is up at the top of the list.
“But here is the biggie. Miscavige’s clever parsing of words in the finest tradition of “I did not have sex with that woman.” One of your bests posts, Mike.
Howard (the coward) Becker once wrote a KR on my ex because she donated money to the CCHR rather than the IAS. Howard felt that was being covert ……….. because the IAS was regging for a CCHR project.
Yo Howard,
How did your life work out for you? Last I heard you were looking a tad abused.
All of the above, plus the church has a really devious, cunning and criminal way of getting money out of their parishioners who are stupid enough to get onto OT VII. It amounts to unnecessary counseling and sec checking that can get very expensive (not to mention the psychological torment) and as Mat Pesch can attest and as I saw for myself, the C/Sing and programming is done according to what the regges “qualify” the parishioner for.
This is a betrayal beyond the pale and far worse than any televangelist.
Interesting flyer there…bunch of old folks holding a “Chuch Bingo-style” get-together to burn up the phone lines, regging members like a fundraising telethon….and OOPS! Oh, take a lookie in the mirror in tge back of tge photo, which happens to show the rest of the EMPTY room, with rows of empty chairs! Yeah, a real popular event, they had to pack the house! (LOL)
I actually thought it was a home for the aging.
Hey hey hold your horses there OSD, I resemble that remark. I look like all of them. And I’m only a few dozen years old. Oh. I get it now.
Hey, you and me both! I look in the mirror and see the old OSD in my face.
BTW, how old is a few dozen anyway?
@OSD, Well, I haven’t hit 30 yet. I went 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 20-10, 20-11, 20-12, 20-13, 20-14, 20-15… I turned 20-20-20 on my last birthday.
Ha! You’re still a spring chicken! Hey, maybe we should just walk into that org and make ourselves comfortable. They’ll just think we’re aging members! What hoot that would be!
Yeah, me to OSD.
Another item of note (albeit small), there are no phone lines. It appears as if they’re using cell phones. My point (perhaps petty) is that there’s a possibility they are personal cell phones as opposed to church funded lines. This would serve several functions. 1) No expense to the church as it’s the callers’ phones/minutes (though I admit, they could be church supplied cells). 2) A person is more likely to pickup a call from a friend as opposed to an unknown # or known # of a reg. 3) May (big may) give the church plausible deniability if something is said/done by the person who was acting on their “own” w/out church sanction. Among other potential benifits.
Seriously, a call center set up, with persons calling to elicit donations (think telethon-ish) which doesn’t even provide ample phones for the volunteers. Obviously, there is at least one phone number, as listed in the picture, to call in, but I have a guess (though it may be wrong) that many more calls were made in this endeavor as opposed to calls received.
I know its a small point, which could be baseless if all the cells were CoS owned or provided to those personnel, but it struck me after seeing the median age of the group, and all the pinned up white board paper on the walls of what I believe may be previous pledges or donations as another odd or out of place aspect.
A picture tells a 1000 words, and this picture speaks volumes – true to the saying – even if my perception is incorrect.
After about 50 calls they started blocking the number when they called me.
But what’s on the guy’s head in the back row? First I thought he might be a lost longshoreman or truck driver wearing a knitted watch cap. Now, I’m just not sure.
Oh, that guy! Big guy with knitted cap? Homeless man. He just wanted a place that’s safe to relax. However, when the fundraising started and he didn’t donate, he was unceremoniously kick out and told to never come back until he had some money to give them. Or something like that…
All LA church calls go through their central switchboard so seeing anything with 323-960-xxxx is 95% certain to be from RCo$. So ignore it!
Hey, Mike, credit where credit is due, he is right, they should not compare their fundraising practices to those of televangelists. How dare anyone accuse him of that?
Any televangelist who did what scientology regges did would be serving hard time for extortion.
Televangelists limit their mail to only a few dozen pieces over a period of months.
Televangelists do not call you dozens of times a day.
Televangelists do not follow you to your car.
Televangelists do not do credit checks on you then sit with you one on one forcing you to max out every possible avenue of credit available.
Televangelists do not force you to quit talking to family members if you run out of or refuse to give more money.
Wait…what??? Valeria, are you telling me that scientology (which is ALWAYS far, far more worse than you think) is even worse than televangelists??? Shocking! You could knock me over with a feather.
Feather, meet OSD. Tap tap.
I’ve fallen and I can’t get up!
Valerie, to add to it: televangelists don’t come to your house at 10 and 11 at night to get money. They don’t come at 1 am and continue knocking till you open the door (the IAS did this to a friend of mine). Televangelists don’t call all your credit cards (which they keep a list of on file), and con the credit card company into raising your limits, which the registrars then immediately max out. Televangelists don’t use your kids to beg for money from you. With Scientology, it is always worse than you think.
Edy Lundeen drove from Los Angeles to Sonora (5 hr drive) to sit outside of my driveway gate from 9PM till whenever she left later that night. I turned off the phones and went to bed. Next day, I listened to the messages ………….my my what a sweet lady Edy is.
Do they call ahead to tell you they are coming or just show up unexpectedly? That is a fascinating story.
@Newcomer, do I detect the slightest note of sarcasm in your comment? Nah. I’m sure you really mean it.
The big question I have, and this is a serious question if you can possibly answer it, although there may not be an answer.
How many people actually give in to these type of incessant reg cycles and for how long before they finally just leave the fold permanently?
Do the people inside truly believe that they can continue this type of pressure indefinitely without breaking someone?
How is it possible that they don’t see the effect these actions cause on people like you? Are they truly that blind, or just that desparate.
You have a gate to keep cult members at bay? Way to go! You must be pretty important to have Edy drive 5 hours to your home only to sit in her car leaving voicemail messages for you. What, did they un-declare you? But what I think is on everyone’s mind is, what kind of messages did she leave you! Inquiring minds want to know…
That must have been enjoyable Newcomer. Once Howard B and the great Michael Roberts arrived at my house unannounced and I told them to leave after a few minutes. They kept trying to regg me but I was good at getting them out. They didn’t like it. 🙂
Wait…what? Tony, are telling me they didn’t like you shooing them away? Once again, I’m shocked and appalled! Who would have thought that their manners would be so crass. I hope you threw rotten tomatoes at them as they left. That would have brightened up their clothes….
Newcomer, Edy and company kept coming to my house at 10:30 or later at night and I never open the door after dark unless I am expecting a friend. They got mad that I wouldn’t open the door. I let it be known via my FSM that I would not open the door for them if they came after dark. So she wrote me a threatening text message that unless I came in to the FSC office for my “interview” that she would continue coming at night and knocking on my door and calling me. I told her she was threatening me and that I would have none of it. She said she was not threatening. I saved the message from her and showed it to my kids so they would know what I was dealing with. They were shocked and on my side until the org terminals straightened them out. They got so straightened out by the org that they eventually disconnected from me because my big crime was reading the blogs. Good on you for having a gate and turning off your phones and getting a good night’s sleep. I bet the messages the next day singed your hair!