Another recent tweet from the genuises at STAND League led me to yet another of their brain-addled articles.
John Logothetis has apparently caught some sort of mental incapacity from riding in Rodger Clark’s clown car of flawed logic…
As a note, right at the outset, he excuses the “professional critic” who gets paid for their “opinions.” Of course, he must know that this is scientology’s repeated claim about me and Leah. That we are simply “paid critics” who have nothing better to do than make a buck off “scientology’s good name.”
But don’t think he actually excuses me. It doesn’t take long for him to launch into his attack.
But first, he’s really so clueless as to talk about scientologists “happy as clams”? I guess he doesn’t get out much, and certainly hasn’t taken much time to study the “critics” when he uses the most common derogatory term for scientologists derived from Hubbard’s bizarre History of Man ramblings.
Now, it’s funny that, for over 20 years, I have gone to one Scientology church or another, many events and many other activities as a Scientologist. I don’t think I can even count on one hand the number of unhappy parishioners I have met. I would say well over 99 percent were happy as clams, studying their courses, being an auditor, working at a church as a staff member etc.
This guy has never met an unhappy scientologist. After all, who would dare express their unhappiness INSIDE a scientology organization? Nobody is dumb enough to do that. It’s a very expensie lesson that most only have to learn once.
But now, let’s get into the “darker aspects” of getting a lot done, that Scientologists as a group cannot avoid due to just how much good they do in society. You see, we have our naysayers and our critics.
“Due to just how much good they do in society” — this guy is not merely a KoolAid drinker, he has a stand and is passing it out to anyone who will take it.
And the following points about these people are very interesting ones:
#1. They aren’t Scientologists, meaning most of them have not read a book, done a course, received spiritual counseling or done anything at all in the Scientology religion. If they have (doubtful, but possible) they would simply go right into category #2…
Again, obviously that is NOT referring to me. I have rad EVERY book. Done the OEC. Audited through OT VII. Audited others on NOTs. Done KTL, LOC, DSEC and a hundred other courses. So, he cannot possibly be referring to me. Right?
#2. They are largely former Scientologists who committed crimes against the Church large enough to warrant them being kicked out of the Scientology religion. I can tell you that is not an easy task to accomplish with a group as forgiving and helpful as Scientologists.
I was not “kicked out” of the scientology “religion” — I escaped. I was then declared an enemy for talking to the press.
But, surprise, surprise. Who is the poster child for the “naysayers.”
And he knows for a fact that I “attacked my ex-wife so brutally she had to undergo surgery and sustained permanent nerve damage.” Now, THAT is classic hearsay. But that doesn’t slow John down from launching into his opinion about hearsay:
How do you criticize something you know nothing about? But the critic will say, “Oh I heard so and so and so and so.” Try that in a court of law and see where it gets you. NOWHERE. It’s called “hearsay” and is not admissible as evidence or testimony in any way whatsoever.
The word “hearsay” comes from two words: “hear” and “say.” And it means exactly that. You heard something, then said it. So these people are just a part of those #’s I was talking about in paragraph two (when I saved the world). It’s that certain percentage that will be negative and not like you no matter WHAT you do, including saving the world. And that’s not even a joke.
So, here is John, with some classic hearsay, talking about himself…
For point #2, I can tell you that to be totally kicked out of a Scientology church is hard to do. I’m almost laughing while writing this because I find it incomprehensible that some have managed to accomplish it—you would have to work hard at it.
Well, as I said John, I was not “kicked out” but right from the outset, your Founder kicked plenty of people out of scientology and declared them Fair Game and that they should be destroyed. Apparently it was not that hard. The vast majority of the “greatest staff in the history of scientology” (St Hill and WorldWide in the mid-60′) have been declared SP.
Scientology as a group is one of the most forgiving groups out there, without a doubt. Don’t get me wrong, if you start causing real trouble, you won’t be invited to be a member much longer. But this has to be extreme, and I can tell you that these “critics” did some pretty nasty stuff to the very church they were a part of. The Church pretty much had no choice but to tell them they were no longer welcome in our group.
It’s so funny how these guys just bleat the party line — “one of the most forgiving groups out there”?? Really?
And the “church” “pretty much had no choice but to tell them they were no longer welcome in our group” — you mean they claim this AFTER you manage to get away. When I left, I was not asked to leave, in fact John, I was being YOUR spokesperson…
Now these same people are out there criticizing Scientology? Laughable in the extreme.
It’s only “laughable” to those who cannot confront the fact that there are ongoing abuses happening every day. Because you “don’t see it” doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
And then, after making these brilliant points, he comes to the end and of course has to assert that scientology is doing SO much good for SO many people it’s incalculable.
The fact is, Scientology reaches a whole lot of people worldwide. It does a whole lot of good for individuals, groups and communities wherever you find it. Just ask any REAL practitioner or parishioner of Scientology and you’ll get REAL, educated opinions on the actual subject matter. Don’t talk to the haters and the naysayers—about anything, for that matter. You are talking to a percentage of the population that would hate YOU if you caught their attention enough. And Scientology has caught the attention of a whole lot of people. And here’s the deal: go fishing with a large net. When you scoop everything out, you’ll get some fish, but you will always get your share of dirt and scum in that net. It’s just a matter of math. Lots of fish and a little bit of dirt and scum and even some garbage here and there. We do a whole lot of good in society in Scientology and we unfortunately, like the fisherman, get our share of dirt and scum back. But be assured, we will continue to do lots and lots of good, as many of us have studied this exact phenomenon of “the haters” and know what to do about it, which means they cause no real concerns to us.
Oh yes, we will keep doing very well indeed, and help lots and lots of people.
Sorry haters!
How about some facts to back up your claims? How many Clears and auditors have been made in the entire world in the last year? Total? Do you have any actual independent verification of these “good works” that are supposedly being done? If this is true, why can’t you prove you provide a public benefit to the UK Charity Commission in order for them to grant you tax exempt status? This is one country where you actually have to prove your benefit to society and scientology has tried repeatedly and failed the test. How is that possible?
In the end, the only truth here is this, John. You are willing dupe who does what you are told to do despite all the evidence that smacks you in the face.
John makes it too easy. First, describing hearsay only to give the perfect example of it. The more amusing (to me, at least) was this one:
“…Try that in a court of law and see where it gets you. NOWHERE. It’s called “hearsay” and is not admissible as evidence or testimony in any way whatsoever.“
Actually “that” HAS been tried in a court of law. Subject matter expert, John. And not only is it admissible, it (Mike Rinder’s and other former members’ testimony) has then consistently caused the diminutive one to write checks left and right to make even their own lawsuits just go away.
You see John, that “inadmissible hearsay” you attempt to discredit is so scary to Wee Li’l Leader that he pays inordinate sums of money primarily to get ex-members to sign an NDA because what they share is so damaging BECAUSE it is factual.
What I find TRULY AMAZING is that the AUTHORITIES are taking HEARSAY as the TRUTH in that they’ve NEVER SEEN SHELLEY M….but take the word of SOMEONE ELSE that Shelly is alive & well & wants to be left alone & not bothered. Shelly has NEVER STEPPED FORWARD IN PERSON>>IN THE FLESH….to PROVE she is alive & well & not being detained against her will.
HEARSAY…..bah…what bullcrap.
Logothetis, from Greek logothétēs: one who reasons. 😂
“I don’t think I can even count on one hand the number of unhappy parishioners I have met.” — Anecdotal Fallacy, Appeal to Ignorance, Absence of Evidence.
“…Scientologists as a group cannot avoid [criticism] due to just how much good they do in society.” — Questionable Cause, Single Cause Fallacy, Affirming the Consequent, Absence of Evidence, Proof by Assertion
“They aren’t Scientologists…[or] they are largely former Scientologists who committed crimes against the Church…” — False Dilemma, Appeal to Purity, Appeal to Hypocrisy, Irrelevant Conclusion, Appeal to Motive, Traitorous Critic Fallacy.
“I would like to know how you can criticize something you know nothing about. It’s like a movie critic criticizing a movie he hasn’t even seen!” — Inductive Fallacy, Appeal to Authority, Faulty Generalisation, False Equivalence.
“I can tell you that to be totally kicked out of a Scientology church is hard to do. I’m almost laughing while writing this because I find it incomprehensible that some have managed to accomplish it.” — Argument from Incredulity.
“I can tell you that these ‘critics’ did some pretty nasty stuff to the very church they were a part of. The Church pretty much had no choice but to tell them they were no longer welcome in our group. Now these same people are out there criticizing Scientology? Laughable in the extreme.” — Appeal to Ignorance, Absence of Evidence, Poisoning the Well, Appeal to Motive, Appeal to Spite, Appeal to Hypocrisy, McNamara Fallacy, Traitorous Critic Fallacy, Vacuous Truth.
The grammar and use of English in his piece is shocking.
The content is what it is, but the writing itself is dire.
“You see, we have our naysayers and our critics…..
#1. They aren’t Scientologists, meaning most of them have not read a book,”
And yet, most critics know more about the core beliefs for sale in the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology – Xenu, the volcanos, all that nonsense – than the actual members in good standing.
John Logothetis has a fb page. Silly boy. Leave him a message. I did 🤣
Aren’t the STAND stooges themselves “professional critics”- it’s their job to write hit pieces like this, and their twitter feed and website are about little more than denigrating perceived enemies.
Scientology, the ‘science’ of accusing others of that which scientologists themselves are guilty….
Freudian slips may be their most obvious work in the world, at least from this sorry crew. It really does seem that living and working under inhumane totalitarian repression, leaves their repressed humanity to seep out in unintended ways.
Right, Peacemaker. THEY are paid, or at least supported or ordered, by a tiny despot with DEEP pockets to parrot whatever words are the tiny tyrant’s® current fad. His/their opponents, if paid, are supported by throngs who are TIRED of Dwarfenführer’s™ shenanigans going unaddressed by sane people.
“.. we will keep doing very, very well and help lots of people..”
Umm… reality check, jackass. Your criminal organization doesn’t help anyone. Ever. They destroy. They corrupt. They lie. They deceive. They break up families. They stalk and harass ex-members and critics. Etc, etc, etc.
And $cientology has never done “ very well”. This guy is mainlining the KoolAid. It’s so embarrassing.
I guess they lock doors at Scientology events so nobody can escape the vulture-culture registrars to create even more happiness ???
I’ve yet to meet one of these “Most” who weren’t Scientologists at some point in the past.
Only a very small minority get kicked out of the Church of Scientology. Better than 90% simply leave and never come back, and post about the disgusting, despicable criminal nature of the Church of Scientology while they were in, so as to warn others not to get caught up in it’s dark “Money-Machine” webs and Hubbard’s Fair Game policies. The Church of Scientology is a pathological lie factory.
For practicing Scientology within the “Independent Scientology” movement, not only are such folks permanently kicked out, but also subject to Hubbard’s Fair Game policies, to destroy and ruin them utterly.
Yes, and that dirt is called the Church of Scientology.
Then why does Hubbard enable a Fair Game policy against those who point out the crimes of the Church of Scientology ???
John Logothetis is fake news.
Formost stated conclusively:”John Logothetis is fake news”
He is NO news, only recycled PR picked off the trash heap of failed propaganda attempts.
Is his name Logothetis or…. Long-on-the-s**t?
Mike does more good in his public retorts than these davey minions ever do.
Jim Rowles quipped:”Is his name Logothetis or…. Long-on-the-s**t?”
Jim,. that’s cute, but the guy hardly had a say in what his parents named him, so it’s immaterial.
Still, he IS “long on the shit”…. THAT he does to himself
Accurate on both points . Just as dogs copy their masters, davy’s minions are snarly, nasty, and nearly illiterate.
S.T.A.N.D. – Scientology Thugs Against Necessary Dissent
“S.T.A.N.D. – Scientology Thugs Against Necessary Dissent”
Nice one, Michael, but I think we need something better for the “N”.
Well that was the best I could think of at the time. Perhaps a little contest is in order to decide the best ‘N’ word for this ?
I’m scared at the prospect that the guy may actually believe the stuff he’s spouting.
“All the good [they’re] doing”, INDEED.
The standard Scientology argument regarding critics is an example of “heads, I win; tails, you lose.”
If you are a critic of Scientology who was never a member, they say you cannot fairly or meaningfully criticize Scientology because you were never a member and thus never experienced or learned Scientology yourself. That all of your knowledge about Scientology is second-hand hearsay.
If you are a critic of Scientology who is an ex-Scientologist, they say you are an apostate, and then pull out intellectually vacuous dreck by a NRM (New Religious Movement) “scholar” that apostate testimony is unreliable.
The result is that no one can criticize Scientology.
ISNOInews, it’s a reflection of Tubby’s unsupported assertion that all critics are criminals and rapists. Hubbard was never given to honest self-reflection, so didn’t see he was accusing others of what he, himself was, and that he apparently HATED.
Poor Parkin, and Logothetis, the lies drip off of them like a Trump Press Secretary trying to explain disparaging comments about American war dead.
Zee Moo observed:
“Poor Parkin, and Logothetis, the lies drip off of them like a Trump Press Secretary trying to explain disparaging comments about American war dead.”
Agreement, and even though I prefer tRUMP to any professional politician, the Donald really needs to start considering his off-hand remarks a bit. I can’t believe he’s as ignorant as he comes off.
Then according to Scientology, the reason that I was declared SP after OTVIII was because I had “crimes” against Scientology. That is the most stupid piece of logic I have ever heard. I paid $120,000 for an OT level and it was my crime? So I guess it is a crime to donate to Scientology.
George M. White’s unassailable logic:” I paid $120,000 for an OT level and it was my crime? So I guess it is a crime to donate to Scientology.”
Sadly, that might be the truth of it.
supporting that international criminal enterprise, even in ignorance, might be a crime against all 8 dynamics at once.
(continued). For instance, giving any power to Davey-Boy gives him MORE license to rape and pillage those still in who still want to achieve the “star high” goals he’s trashed rom the beginning, along with Tubby: He seems never to have been able or willing to actually achieve those aims; creating an army of slaves seems more his wont.
Sadly, quite apart from Scientology, the kind of fantasy that we see on STAND is similar to the idiotic lies posted on political memes on facebook every single day in great numbers. Along with the content we love on the internet comes the cheap and easy propaganda. Well, no newsprint to buy and in most cases, no actual writers have to be paid.
As far as getting kicked out of Scientology, most people are kicked out like I was … AFTER I already quit …
“Well, no newsprint to buy and in most cases, no actual writers have to be paid.”
and we don’t HAVE to wash our hands afterwards. Nor do we have handy-dandy glass-cleaning or birdcage material.
Great rebuttal! One typo : in the paragraph that begins “And then, after making…”. I think you meant assert instead of asset.
Really? 😳
Cre8tivewmn, by 2:30, that was fixed.
Scientology – a Church who uses “BIG LEAGUE SALES” to manipulate the followers into giving not only all of their money, but to go into deep devastating debt for a cause that is nothing more than a big lie, a delusion. Scientology hides behind the religious cloak and is above the laws of the land. Scientology is not transparent with the money they defraud out of members, they lie every day to members about what it is actually used for. Keeping members broke is a clever mind control tactic that breeds chaos and confusion in their lives. It is easy to control people when you ROB them of their power and self determinism. Scientology has perfected this scam and money laundering racket.Scientology Ethics keeps the victim introverted and focused on what THEY have done wrong. Scientology BILLIONS coveted funds a lavish lifestyle for David Miscavige and a few minions who do his dirty work. It also pays private investigators and attorneys to protect this region from getting exposed for what it is.
A clever mind control trick L RON Hubbard uses and keeps the clubbed seals in the dark is the black pr campaigns they put out on critics. All critics. Fair gaming them to utter ruin so Scientology can continue to manipulate and deceive the followers.
Lurkers, better do your homework ON Scientology. There is a insidious reason LRH made it a high crime to investigate Scientology, himself and Scientologists. He knew you would leave if you knew. Better start looking until Scientology ruins you too.
Yeah, Walker. At the time I thought it so strange to use that as a source. It HAD to be, at minimum, mixing practices. but all the registrars were all agog about it at the time. Sad.
Hey, is he calling US “Haters”? In my case, I feel more sad for those still in the bubble and want to help them break free of the shackles they put on themselves.
Well stated.
John, stop Standing and take a seat, you’ve got some serious self reflection to do if you want a real life. Sorry haters indeed.
He needs to take *several* seats.
“Haters”?? Wow. He sounds like a butthurt teenager. That word is so juvenile. It’s drives me nuts.
KatherineINCali stated:”
“Haters”?? Wow. He sounds like a butthurt teenager. That word is so juvenile. It’s drives me nuts.”
Didn’t I read somewhere that people in cults tend to reflect the age at which they joined? Seems so in this case.
It does indeed.
They’re so ridiculous, to say the least. They embarrass themselves time and again.