Scientology files kept on people
No Thursday Funnies this week due to Tom Cruise the cruise.
But someone sent this to me as a follow up to the earlier post I had done about the use of priest/penitent files: Scientology Violates Priest-Penitent Confidences — When It Suits Them.
What is so interesting about this issue is the lengths it goes to in order to ensure scientology can assert a privilege to withhold information being turned over in a legal or law enforcement action. This issue comes on the heels of the Christofferson trial and the subsequent jury award of $39 million. The Wollershiem case was coming up. The Legal Department was busy scouring Wollershiem’s folders for information that could be used against him in the case (this was pursuant to an L. Ron Hubbard evaluation of another legal case the “Goodrich Eval” where he had had information culled from Goodrich’s files in order to formulate the legal strategy to win the case).
But while scientology wanted to use the pc folder data as a sword — they also wanted to avoid litigants from doing the same. MANY of the claims of mistreatment and mental torture and infliction of emotional distress were contained in the pc folders. And ARE contained in pc folders.
Richard, I agree with you. It would be fun. I’m of 2 minds when it comes to this though.
Let’s say I HAD a problem that got handled in auditing; sure, reading the comments about it whilst it was being handled would be ok, even amusing.
But let’s say I’m reading and there’s something about me that has NOT been handled…not to be funny but just to illustrate, let’s say I’m TOTALLY paranoid and neurotic on the subject of “rain”. Getting caught in the rain, sprinklers, just rain, period. I HATE rain…this has been a YUGE problem for me all my life. I can’t tell ANYONE about it because its too embarrassing. I don’t go ANYWHERE when it rains. I don’t go anywhere if I SUSPECT its going to rain…again, I’m just making this neurosis up. Ok, this thing that’s ruining my life is STILL not handled so I’m reading my PC folder about what my auditor and C/S have to say about this…according to them it stems from NOTHING to do with actual rain and they recommend a process…I don’t know, it could make me MORE paranoid about rain, reading this. It could make me WORSE.
Point being, I’m not sure I’d want to read my PC folder. That said, I WOULD like it to be in my possession – ABSOLUTELY. I’d like it to be MY property, NOT the cherch’s. But if were in my possession, its possible I would stifle my intense curiosity and forego reading any of it, and just shred it.
Whatever Indie groups are left they probably need to do some explaining about how their auditing folders are kept. Would they be returned to the person on demand? I think it would be fun to read over my auditing folders from almost forty years ago and see what the auditors and case supervisors were thinking about me back then.
Richard, I agree with you. It would be fun. I’m of 2 minds when it comes to this though.
Let’s say I HAD a problem that got handled in auditing; sure, reading the comments about it whilst it was being handled would be ok, even amusing.
But let’s say I’m reading and there’s something about me that has NOT been handled…not to be funny but just to illustrate, let’s say I’m TOTALLY paranoid and neurotic on the subject of “rain”. Getting caught in the rain, sprinklers, just rain, period. I HATE rain…this has been a YUGE problem for me all my life. I can’t tell ANYONE about it because its too embarrassing. I don’t go ANYWHERE when it rains. I don’t go anywhere if I SUSPECT its going to rain…again, I’m just making this neurosis up. Ok, this thing that’s ruining my life is STILL not handled so I’m reading my PC folder about what my auditor and C/S have to say about this…according to them it stems from NOTHING to do with actual rain and they recommend a process…I don’t know, it could make me MORE paranoid about rain, reading this. It could make me WORSE.
Point being, I’m not sure I’d want to read my PC folder. That said, I WOULD like it to be in my possession – ABSOLUTELY. I’d like it to be MY property, NOT the cherch’s. But if were in my possession, its possible I would stifle my intense curiosity and forego reading any of it, and just shred it.
I was mostly being facetious. Reading through my folders would probably be pretty dull. An area of interest might be if I had any “Rock Slams”. A Rock Slam is when the needle on the e-meter slams back and forth which supposedly indicates an “Evil Purpose” or “Evil Intention”. I might want to make sure those are cleaned up before I enter the Void. (still being facetious)
Speaking of the fear of rain (joke) – “It’s Raining Men”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqCarcfhaTE
Thanks for your response. Understood on all. And for the record THAT kind of rain is always OK to be caught in 🙂
The caption under the picture reads, “Scientology files kept on people”. Back when I was active I would have looked at that picture and thought, “Scientology files kept FOR people”. I would have been very pleased that my auditing folders were being neatly stored.
I blew scientology in 1982. Hopefully by now my auditing folders have hit the shredder. Over the years there must be millions of auditing folders which accumulated. It’s unlikely but hopefully the ones discarded got to a recycling center instead of a landfill.
I worked at the Las Vegas Org for about six months. For the last twenty five years I’ve lived in my home state of New Jersey but two years ago I got an “Are you still interested?” letter from the Las Vegas Org so I guess some kind of file is still being stored. I’m gone (blown) but not forgotten.
At our law firm, our file drawers are locked. Only the people with specific reason to access the files may have the keys. Accessing the files not in your purview is immediate cause for termination. The same applies at hospitals, as evidenced in the recent Smollett case.
In scientology, we learned that our privacy was a laughing matter.
Damn wogs and their silly rules.
I beleive the priest penitent confidentiality laws are designed along the same lines as attorney client and doctor patient. That said, the privilege belongs to the “penitent” not the priest. If someone gave permission for their file to be used, I beleive the “church” would have to release the files. I’m not 100% on this since most churches do NOT keep written files on the parishioners, and I’ve never heard of a priest writing down confessions and sharing it with other parishioners. I think that the addition of a third person breaks the confidence. If Scientology uses part of the file publicly it breaks the “confidential” seal given under the law.
The priest penitent privilege belongs to the priest
Actually, it varies by state. In California, absent a waiver [Ca Evid & 912], both clergy and penitent – whether or not parties to the action – have a privilege to refuse to disclose a “penitential” communication.[Ca Evid & 1033, 1034]. In NY and Oregon the Penitent holds it and can waive the privilege.
In twenty-five states, the clergyman–communicant statutory privilege does not clearly indicate who holds the privilege. In seventeen states, the penitent’s right to hold the privilege is clearly stated. In only six states, both a penitent and a member of the clergy are expressly allowed by the statute to hold the privilege.
Does the third party waiver hold true in priest/penitent? And would the recording and videotape without the individuals explicit approval or knowledge breK preist/penitent as it has in other cases? The most notorious run-around the law was likely the Menendez brothers in California where the judge ruled that the presence of the psychologists girlfriend in the waiting room (she said she could hear the boys confessing) broke privilege? If that precedent were used in California, the “confessional” could be broken.
In Florida it belongs to the priest.
Thanks for the info Mike. hope you’re enjoying/enjoyed your vacation!
I note that Hubbard’s issue is all about labeling, and claiming the privilege – nothing about honoring or enforcing it. The one sentence with passive language (often a red flag for scientological weasel-wording) about “confidentiality…be maintained” was obviously always interpreted according to Scientology’s ends-justify-the-means situational ethics,
The bit in the second to last paragraph starting off about “Proper labeling” is also focused entirely on Scientology getting “the protection” rather than actually implementing protections for “parishioners.” This reminds me of the supposed cancellation of “fair game,” which was intended to be defensible for public relations and even legal purposes, while giving the orgs license to continue the abusive practices so long as they avoided using that particular label.
It’s not a Hubbard issue. It was written by Ray Mithoff and Marty Rathbun.
Peacemaker,
You always have the best answers/explanations for stuff. I am assuming that Hubbard wrote this “policy”- yet at the time that it was written, scientology had not been recognized as a church, and would therefore not be allowed the privilege. Was he attempting to circumvent the law or was he simply trying to muddy the waters?
Off topic – right audience:
Tune into Ron Miscavige’s pod cast on YouTube this Sunday.
George M White (Witek) will be going into detail on the original OT 8 course on the Freewinds.
He will be painting a scene of craziness, when the original OT 8 course students read the Lucifer materials and how DM reacted to the emotional explosions and outrage from students expecting greatness but found Hubbard’s metaphysical evil.
Spread the word to ALL! This is important.
Yes, I’ve listened to the first two. Thank you for getting them together Brian. I consider this a break threw along with the Affirmations becoming public and LRHs last wishes. Really the truth ? XO
Uh oh. FP will be summoned. Xenu help us.
You know back in the day I crossed paths with the Scientologist in the little town of Ventura California right after Mr. Hubbard had died. One of the first things they asked me when I went in and sat down to talk with them after I had read the book Dianetics which had peaked my interest was how much money did I make? I found this to be a Holly curious question. The next thing was after I did this so-called personality test wise they wanted me to write down as in in my own hand writing 25 secret bad things that I had done. They had given me examples such as had I ever masturbated in a public theater etc. etc. this was all just extremely freaking bizarre. I declined their invitation to write anything down. The next thing was I was presented with this fine print contract which had all of this stuff in it about it was a religion and all of this nonsense about confidential files and if I were ever committed to a hospital or psychiatric institution that I expressly gave them the authority to remove me from the facility. It was absolutely clear to me after leaving and meeting with these people that they were complete all whack jobs on steroids. At the time I did not understand that I had walked into the cobweb of a cold and the spiders were racing across the web for me as if I were a fresh items off pray for them to descend upon. I was in my mid 20s at the time and I guess that’s also about the same time that that malevolent little leprechaun David Miscavage was making his sociopathic cycle pathic moves to take over the organization. Colts are magnets for these type personalities and they also encourage sociopathic behavior and other members who become in snared in their ranks as well. In many ways I would suggest that Scientology is basically individuals whose thinking has been re-organized into sociopathic modes of expression and then stacked in a pyramid where as you move up in the organization you emanate you’re so see apathy down through the ranks and also to your associates wherever you find yourself with in the pyramid. in many ways I would suggest that Scientology is basically individuals whose thinking has been re-organized into sociopathic modes of expression and then stacked in a pyramid where as you move up in the organization you emanate you’re sociopathy down through the ranks and also to your associates wherever you find yourself within the pyramid. I may not have that word it exactly right however I am just free association dictating this from my phone into the comments section. In any case I think you get my drift. I believe also at about the same time as the cold was trying to suck me into its bowels it was also stalking Tom Cruise and bless his little heart and perhaps it was his blind spot of intelligence that he managed to fall into their trap. I believe also at about the same time as the cold was trying to suck me into its bowels it was also stocking Tom Cruise and bless his little heart and perhaps it was his blind spot of intelligence that he managed to fall into their trap. It’s true he has made a lot of money playing pretend characters but at the same time I don’t think he’s a very intelligent. It’s true he has made a lot of money playing pretend characters but at the same time I don’t think he’s particularly intelligent. It also bears noting that he has been unable to maintain a relationship with a woman throughout his life as evidenced through his numerous divorces which I believe now number three or possibly four. He has exhibited and a naturally close relationship with the cult leader David Miscavage which has led me to believe that there is a very high likelihood that he is involved in a long-term covert in the closet homosexual relationship with him. When was the last time that you saw Tom Cruise out anywhere with a woman or in the tabloid showing that he’s got some new heartthrob that he’s dating. Of course it may be the case that the word has gotten around that he is absolutely toxic radioactive and women will not have anything to do with him. there is the old adage of “don’t spread your legs for crazy”. I forget what his last wife’s name was but after she managed to escape from him and served him with papers while he was halfway around the world she looked like a hunted animal for years. It was absolutely clear she had a tremendous amount of fear for her own personal safety and general well-being after getting rid of Tom. Probably the only thing keeping her safe are the secrets that she knows about him and Scientology which no doubt she has elaborately recorded and has stashed somewhere in fireproof file cabinets and some law office that Scientology can’t get to. If you are a Scientologist who is secretly working this page and hoping you can hide from the cans during auditing the fact that you are doing this think about that that you have to hide stuff from your so-called church which it is not it is merely an IRS scam. If it were all true then you should absolutely be open to researching and reading anything that you see on the Internet about it and asking if your belief in Scientology can withstand whatever it is that you’re reading and learning about. All of the so-called upper level secret scriptural teachings of the church can be found on the Internet in their entirety at wiki leaks. along with reams of additional so-called confidential documents that Mr. Hubbard put out within the organization. Any sane person spending even 15 minutes reading through those documents will have a bullshit detector going off at full tilt. There is no wall of fire there are no BT clusters no planes flew into tease to earth then blew them up and volcanoes it’s all absolutely completely freaking over the top knots and written by a complete whack job on steroids whose name is L Ron Hubbard. You should also ask yourself why Mr. Miscavage his own father and indeed his own niece flood the church and then wrote books about Scientology and Ron Miscavige. There came a time that they realized that Scientology was a fake and a fraud and that Mr. Miscavage that is the younger one who’s the head of the church is a complete sociopathic malignant narcissist maniac and L Ron Hubbard was the same. I have been following Scientology for decades as a Scientology watcher because it entertains me to no end to peer into this absolutely nutty cult. It’s also a great pleasure to be able to post voluminous comments like this on Mr. renters blog and know that David Miscavage and the OSA office can do absolutely nothing about it. You cannot apply fair game tactics to me. I look forward to Mr. renderer and Mrs. Remini and so many other people continuing to attack and assault and tear down the cult of Scientology and the days weeks and years to come. I get such a tremendous satisfaction out of watching the process unfold as the cult continues to be exposed and torn apart. I also enjoy watching Chris Shelton 6/10 of videos on Scientology and also those videos of the angry gay pope excoriating all things Scientology. He does such a great job. I guess that’s all for now. And oh before I forget let me say fuck you David Miscavage because we all know you were absolutely reading everything on this blog and all the comments along with everything that’s posted it Tony Ortega’s site.
OH. MY. GOD! They asked you how much money you make? BTBC, at least they’re up front about it. Holy shit!
Hey BTBTC,
Could I suggest you incorporate the use of paragraph structure in your comments? It would help the read, esp. on long dissertations.
Agreed. It is my opinion that DM owns TC. I think he has meddled in the man’s life so extensively he has mauled him into a corner. TC is surrounded by CoS lackeys 24/7 like Shelly Miscavige is, only in public. I am not sure if it is actual or ersatz, but TC is as good as DM mate in many ways. I think DM manipulated all of his relationships to end them and saw the wives as necessary evil to be used and removed since Mimi Rogers due to TC possibly entrenched heterosexuality. Look (from the outside) at DM mate choices, A wife he didn’t want and removed and a helpmate who does what she’s told. Have there ever been relationships DM had that were love/intimacy based besides TC? And I doubt it is love, so much as ego and possession even here. I think TC is a deeply insecure person, who came from an abusive home who found Scientology as a way to buttress up his low self image and there found a willing partner for pretend power and superiority games with DM. Both men are high octane types with anger issues living in their little fantasy world. IN DM I think TC has both a constantly tolerant “friend” and a bullying father figure to appease once more. DM has a mega-star to show off and play with for his own amusement a source of advertising (however strange) for Scientology and a means of bringing in cash to the organization via other duped individuals. I think TC really loves DM. I think DM is using him. I don’t know if TC would be better off living out his life thinking this guy really cares for him, or having the bandage ripped off. It’s sad, but it is their life. You’re right abut sociopaths here. The cult setting is ideal for pulling in those with sociopathic tendencies (often having been created by them) and encouraging these traits in others. Selfishness, bias, arrogance, disregard for others. Why would you want to join and succeed at that? Asked and answered…
Tom Cruise is David Miscavige’s bitch. The end.
Blow them BT – Back in the good old days somebody would have gotten comm eved* for regging you like that. Things changed.
* comm eved – committee of evidence – guilty until proven innocent
Dr. Hubbard loved his money but I still think he would have been displeased with such a lack of decorum. Maybe not if he could have foreseen how much money DM has raked in.
ummm, Richard, Hubbard was not a doctor. he never finished college.
Kat – “Mr. Hubbard” has been assigned various facetious titles over the years although he himself preferred Founder or Source. So the story goes, when he was cruising around foreign shores looking for a place to set up shop, at one port the shore story was that he and his crew wanted to establish “Professor Hubbard’s College of Philosophy”. Whatever works – lol
Richard, it depends on what org or mission you’re talking about it – it was aggressive tactics like that used back in the 1970s and into the 80s, that helped some of the missions get to the big size they achieved in the supposed “good old days.”
The writer is referring to the Ventura mission circa 1986, so it’s indeed in that era, not too long after you left Scientology and before Miscavige took over.
I know that at one point the Ventura mission had several staff who’d been at Riverside – meaning that they’d probably learned “hard sell” body routing and regging, what we would now consider the hardcore Sea Org approach to dealing with public and staff including “gang bang sec checks,” and tactics like the fraudulent loan practices that got Riverside raided by the authorities.
When I got in, an Auditor was hitting on my twin. He told me he read her folder and she had a tumultuous relationship with her boyfriend. He wanted to date her. He wanted me to help date her. I was appalled that he read her folder for his own personal gain and actually shared it with me. The auditor was a Clear and an OT. He was very sleazy – a total sex pervert scum bag. The entire incident repulsed me from this “church”. At the same time, I felt the Organization was too flawed to be what it proclaimed to be. I did not meet one Clear or OT that had anything but an inflated ego and delusions of grandeur. The staff were a bunch of losers with nothing to show for their dedication. I never did continue in Scientology. After watching all of the documentaries, read all books written by ex members and am absolutely addicted to Scientology; the Aftermath….I was right. My “reactive mind” was telling me to get the hell out of Scientology and never look back. Thank God I hung on to that part of my mind that warns me of danger. Some of the poor blokes got rid of that part of their mind as they went up the Bridge to Total Freedom and ended up Dead, Broke, Divorced and shattered. I am very fortunate I got out when I did.
Good for you, BlownPC! Now, the world is your oyster. Congrats on leaving!
Please tell me your sister got out at well?
Not sure (as I was never in) but I don’t think “twin” is as in “twin sister”. “Twin” here means the person BlownPC worked with, who may or may not be / have been related to him.
Your “Twin” in scientology is the person you partner with when doing certain courses that require interaction between two people to complete parts or the training.
I think many of us are hoping the Garcia’s are successful and the door will open for the rest of us to get our monies back!
I’ll sign that memo!
Keep your receipts for proof of “donations” made.
After I was sent off the ship with AIDS after I recovered I went to AOLA to try to do my Solo to OTIII. It was all paid for. I received a sec check and progress program. When I told the auditor that my wife had been held against her will on the ship I had to find all of the times I had done it to another on the whole track. FINE. Then when I saw the MAA she said “No, they never hold anyone against their will” as I was trying to Black OR the Church when all I did was give a truthful answer to a reading question.
When they operate like that, the value of the auditing is zero or negative gain. I did not realize quick enough that trying to get them to use standard tech and policy is pointless; the only thing to do is depart the scene.
There is no Standard Tech.
There is only space opera, made up in part from Hubbard’s fevered imagination, and auditing, adopted from his misunderstanding of Abreaction Therapy, a psychiatric technique discredited for very good reasons before Hubbard even tried it. Add in the scam of Volney Matheson’s e-meter and Hubbard had the foundation of his lifelong dream – a hypnotic sort of money-making scheme that put others under his control, or else.
He refined things over the years, finally ‘standardizing’ somewhere in the mid-60s, long after he got his cult-MLM scheme rolling. To hear the words ‘standard tech’ said in a certain way is to know there are still believers in Hubbard as a creator of something good… which is highly debatable.
Are looking up MUs standard, when so much of Hubbard-speak can not be found in an ordinary dictionary of the English language? Are the TRs standard, when it is easily provable that Hubbard designed them for their hypnotic effect of reverie, making PCs more suggestible to believe “standard tech applied standardly always works” and much, much more? Is there any reason the members immersed for years in standard tech are so angry, so arrogant, so willfully ignorant and unable to think for themselves, and fearful of even offering good-faith criticism of their own group? Is everything really your fault? Really?
The facts showing there is nothing to Hubbard’s tech except as a means for him to exert control and extract cash are legion. Too bad so many still believe “the tech,” they have not yet rid themselves of their gradually acquired ronbot nature – but it is a long process, and can be done.
Standard tech is supposed to be orthodox Scientology.
But it’s factually just orthodox quixotic quackery
This is the #1 reason to stay far away from scientology and dianetics auditing! Whatever you say is fair game and will be used against you!
What’s the word for that? Oh, yeah. SCUMBAG!
What a whole lot of baloney just to cover up the fact they want more money, more money and more money. Always more money and never any positive result. Please won’t someone please terminate this cult and put it out of its misery. Where is The Terminator when you need him?
I’ll be back.
Heh Heh Heh! Excellent!
I don’t know why, but I always thought you would be treated badly by the Scam if you had AIDS. Maybe it’s knowing how badly they treat people with cancer.
Do you feel that part of the way you were handled was because of your disease?
So glad you’re doing well. I worked with AIDS patients back in the day, and nothing makes me happier than the strides made in treating the horrible scourge.
I am just guessing. But when it comes to AIDS, my guess is The Scam looks at it strictly in terms of dollars and cents. There is just no way for them to gouge and bully AIDS victims into giving them more money.
There is just no money in it and if there is no money in it, you will not ever see The Scam involved in it. They certainly will not spend any of their money if there is no hope of fooling people into giving them more money in return. In other words, The Scam never throws good money away on bad money – or on people who cannot give them more money than they have spent.
The result is AIDS patients – just like the elderly – seem destined to suffer and die in filthy decrepit conditions and The Scam would never even consider sending some of their people to help or comfort the victims because ….
There is just no money in it for them and …
Ain’t that just the most cruel and heartless thing you ever heard of?
Yes, it is. I’m always hoping Mike and Leah will highlight the scam’s treatment of sea arghh members who become ill. It makes me sick to my stomach.