Here are a couple of “success” stories from recent OT VIII graduates.
This is the top of the scientology bridge. The ultimate achievement of the tech (they say there are more OT levels and have been saying so since before Hubbard died in 1986 but nothing has ever materialized and nothing ever will). These people have paid hundreds of thousands to achieve these amazing things at the pinnacle of the “Bridge to Total Freedom.”
The official scientology description of this level is “Truth Revealed” and the “ability gained” is: Handles the primary reason for amnesia on the whole track.
Remember, these are “success stories” they select to publish as the best advertisement for paying the price to achieve this vaunted state. And that “success stories” are mandatory in order to complete any service in scientology and receive your certificate.
A new level of ARC for everyone?
I bet if I walked into the same room as K.W. that would be put to the test!
Lots of generic pablum in here…
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NEW OT VIII |
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Over the past weeks I have been lucky enough to hear many New OT VIII Success Stories here at Graduation, and each one has been different. That makes sense since LRH says this level is uniquely addressed to YOU. For me this level was full of surprises. Sometimes the surprises happened in session and I’d find myself laughing and laughing. Other times I’d step out of session and be literally dazzled by the ‘life in motion’ around me. Sometimes I’d walk out of session thinking, ‘Well that was a very gentle session, not very eventful’ – but then I’d look around and discover that everything had changed. And I mean EVERYTHING. The corridor was different. The stairs weren’t the same. I’d arrive in the examiner’s space and think, “Wow. This is unusual.” One time in Curacao I walked out onto the deck and looked up at that famous bridge and thought, “Whoa! They painted half of it yellow overnight!” Of course none of these changes were happening to the physical universe. I was changing, in all the right ways, as more and more truth displaced the falsehoods in my universe. In fact I found there were many types of truth revealed on this adventure. In between sessions I was able to get some Congresses done and I found the most amazing thing! I would come out of session and put on the headphones. There would be LRH telling me the exact piece of data that perfectly completed a major background cognition that I’d started having. The first time it happened I thought, “Oh, that’s a coincidence.” The next time it happened I thought, “Hmm, another coincidence.” Then it happened again and again, and I began to realize that my ability to perceive and recognize truth was being raised session by session. And remarkably, these truths I was discovering were exactly the truths that I needed to know at that exact moment. By my fifth Congress I would put the headphones on and wait for the next big revelation. And I was never disappointed. So for me, New OT VIII has been a dazzling, delightful, exhilarating and breathtaking series of surprises and adventures into levels of truth and certainty that I’d never imagined possible. I am happier than I have ever been and very proud of myself for making it. But I very definitely did not do this alone. I wish to thank my beautiful wife Sophie who Tone 40’d me onto OT VII and who has helped me every step of the way, and our family and the staff of our Ideal mission of Tainan in Taiwan. My certificate says that I am New OT VIII number 3012. Like my three thousand plus OT brothers and sisters, I am the product of the dedication and determination of this incredible team of Sea Org members on this Ship. I thank you all so much for making true spiritual freedom a reality. Without you we would have no hope of fulfilling our dreams and postulates. My special thanks to my auditors and C/Ses, all the Tech and Qual staff and the magical thetans in the OTVIII course room who guided me through to success. My eternal respect to COB and RTC for making it possible for the Truth to be revealed as LRH intended. To LRH, really, no words can express the depth of my love and gratitude for what you have given to all of us. Thank you, Sir! |
And this person is simply delusional.
It’s a “big win” to look at a bridge and believe “they painted half of it in yellow light”?
“Background cognitions”?
“I would put the headphones on and wait for the next big revelation.” I thought this was supposed to be an OT VIII success?
But the big news here — there are a grand total of 3012 OT VIIIs on planet earth after 30 YEARS. One hundred per year. No wonder the Freewinds cannot afford to buy fuel to get from one port to the next… Two people a week for a ship with 300 crew???
Massive fail.
I pictured an OTVIII not really going to sleep, but being able to continue doing things (operating) even overnight. Hence the person wouldn’t really wake up and notice something changed. Who knows. Pretty sure the stories are censored and probably edited by the authorities. Actually believe they are quite possibly completely written by the 14 year old girls that seem to be given charge of things over there.
Not sure I really need to see an OTVIII success story. Seems sort of superfluous. If you were any sort of OT you are kind of over things, like having to write success stories.
As most of us noticed…where are the real wins? I mean is your life better by any visible standard? Do you have more of what you really want in life? Did you get a raise? Do you now have the job you always wanted? Are you and your family getting along better? Did you move out of that dumpy apartment? Are your kids and you happy with each other?
Here we go again…. another set of “graduates” (you’re trying to seduce me Mrs. Robinson), spouting a bunch of gobbilty gook accumulated from years of training, held together by some words of plain english struggling to become a logical sentence. Epic FAIL. Both in word and deed. Real wins are never identified. And the ones that were sound more like sleep deprivation or an acid trip. FAIL. Suspension of any logic or over use of the word WIN . FAIL. ARC for everyone? You buying a round for the world? FAIL. Never happen. The first author struggled to write his little diddy and it was painful. Did he know at that point he’d been had? The second author came from Taiwan, and expected a mystical experience, that’s in his DNA. He got one! But on the ship fir a YEAR.. yea l’d say anything to get off too
Complete and utter mindless, and mind numbing drivel!
“Truth Revealed” is when even one sheep bot wakes up and realises that they have wasted years of their mortal life span and tens of thousands of dollars and thinks, “Fuck me! I’m out of here.”
Peter Stephens says, “Like my three thousand plus OT brothers and sisters . . . ”
It sounds like some Nation of Islam vernacular is cross pollinating into the scientology scene. What think you, my brothers and sisters on the fringes of the internet?
Where did this “Processing” chart come from? Is the entire current chart available for viewing online? I’m interested in comparing it to the chart I looked at in the 1970’s.
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~288971~90060483:Text–Classification-Gradation-and-
@Mike Rinder
October 2, 2018 at 1:51 pm
– “The BT’s remain “real” but all your recall of “past track” is attributed to them, not you.” –
That is interesting new information Mike, as I don’t recall the nature of BTs ever having been presented/explained in these terms either in the OTVII materials back in the early nineties, or in any of the other earlier OT materials from OT-II on up.
What the whole of OT VII was about was identifying one or more past life incidents in each solo-auditing session – and there were several such sessions supposed to be held each day – and blowing the BT or BTs associated with each of those past life incidents to a strong F/N as the EP of each of those sessions. The reality of the BTs as “attested” by the E-Meter movements was never in doubt, and blowing the BTs was supposed to free them from their parasitic status, so as to enable them to get a life for themselves as fully fledged free thetans.
Given however that the E-Meter [phenomena associated with the BTs can easily be simulated/faked without any thought of past track or BTs, what I was saying in my post above is that if the Clear attest about mocking up the reactive mind is any guide, the OT VIII attest could well involve a similar cognition that the BTs are only being mocked up, i.e. that the BTs are self-generated imaginary entities that do not exist except in the thoroughly indoctrinated and delusional mind of the pre-OT.
“I would come out of session and put on the headphones. There would be LRH telling me the exact piece of data that perfectly completed a major background cognition that I’d started having.”.
And there it is, isn’t it? LRH says something in a lecture and you miraculously have that cognition and ability to do whatever it is. Expand your sphere of OT knowingness and ARC with air molecules or something.
Completion of OT VIII is supposed to be the attainment of the first level of OT, given that OT-I to OT VII are all pre-OT levels, which involve endless auditing and solo-auditing processes of “blowing” so called Body Thetans or BTs.
Upon completion, the so-called End Phenomenon or EP of OT VIII would in all likelihood be a “realization” that BTs were and are “all mocked up,” i.e imaginary entities self-generated by the pre-OT. This would be a similar realization to that of the so-called “Clear” status, which is attained upon “realizing” that the so-called Reactive Mind is all mocked up.
It is all a bait and switch con, first putting there something that does not exist and never existed, and endlessly indoctrinating the pre-OT or pre-Clear into a firm belief in their existence, until it is finally revealed that they do not exist and never existed.
That is the essence of the great insight and “win” in Scientology processing after tens and more likely hundreds of thousands of dollars spent and an enormous amount of time and effort wasted.
But that is not the end of the story, because undoubtedly the pre-OT would discover during the course of doing OT VIII that apart from the millions of mocked up BTs that he had already blown since he started out on OT-II, entirely new categories of BTs are still awaiting to be blown, about which he would be confidentially informed that they would be “handled” on the upper OT levels starting at OT IX.
Thus the ground becomes well prepared for the transfer of another few hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars from the pockets of the witless mark into the bottomless pockets of Scientology.
It’s slightly more clever than that.
The BT’s remain “real” but all your recall of “past track” is attributed to them, not you.
This is the doctrine of no responsibility.
This is the doctrine of blame for one’s condition.
This is the doctrine that disassociates one’s own actions from one’s condition. And thus one’s personal power.
The original OT 8 was Total Cause over Life, Matter Energy and Time Objective and Subjective ( paraphrase)
So the present OT 8 is Total Effect of BTs Subjective and Objective
No wonder Hubbard thought suicide was an option. He never saw his own responsibility for his condition.
It was always some external force from him that he assigned his suffering to.
He was deeply insane.
Scientology claims its ultimate goal is to Clear the Planet.
There are 3000 (?) people walking around having passed OT VIII. 3000 people who now are Clear and able to influence the world with just the powers of their minds. With that ability over MEST one would think that 3000 would be a literal army out there Clearing the planet right and left.
So why isn’t the Planet Clear?
At the very least one would think 3000 Clears could zap Mike and Leah out onto a preprogramming base and stop them from their perfidious course!
“At the very least one would think 3000 Clears could zap Mike and Leah …”
Hi Stefanie! Once I asked an OT8 Snr Exec at the Ship why the OTs wouldn’t just incapacitated (like zap with their OT power) the SPs who are attacking Scn. After all, there’s all the talk about OT powers. She was answering annoyed that “it doesn’t work that way”.
Lol, it doesn’t work at ALL!
Each person is a being on this planet.
You, the being, the self, the spirit, the élan vital, dwells within your body as a rule.
You are the driver of the car.
You are a fallen angel.
You may rekindle your believe in yourself and recover.
You may assist other life to recover and survive.
Or you may become a cinder and try to take others with you.
Prove the bullshit you speak Ron Hubbard I mean Howarth. Show me your fallen angel power. I think you are a troll. I don’t think you believe anything that you’re saying. Go get run over by a freight train on venus. What bullshit.
Wow!
3012 OT 8’s in 30 years…unbelievable.
What kind of mental gymnastics do the OSA flunkies who monitor these boards have to go through to convince themselves that they haven’t been conned??
IF the Tech worked, these completions wouldn’t have to write scripted and vetted “Success Sories”. They would be able to demonstrate amazing life skills (not even paranormal stuff). Most OT’s are either a mess or indistinguishable from non-scientologists.
IF the Admin Tech worked, there would be tens of thousands more OT 8 completions and more (not less) orgs than 20 years ago.
Yes, there are some good things in Scn but the bottom line is that neither Clear or OT exist nor is scientology “the road out”. The bulk of Scn is a confused mess and a reflection of LRH’s madness.
Scientology is a crooked business and a lie and lots of people end up getting hurt.
Right! The “wins” from the earlier classes can be gained by more benign methods. Moving up the bridge, you realize that it isn’t to “Total Freedom”, but total mind control. “What’s true for you” = whatever Scientology tells you to think,act,feel, etc.
Actually, to be specific, according to one source* it is:
* 1,148 OT 8s in the 3 years 1989-1991 – about 383 per year
* 114 OT 8s in the 5 years 1992-1996 – about 23 per year
* 0 OT 8s in the 4 years 1997-2000 – 0 per year
* 1,596 OT8s in the 12 years 2001-2012 – about 133 per year
* 156 OT8s in the last approximately 5 years** – about 26 per year
The long-term average is about 100 per year, which would have them hitting the 10,000 mark just before the end of the century. But the average after the first 3 years is just 70 per year, and it seems to have declined to just a couple of dozen per year as Scientology has shrunk recently, putting that goal several centuries further out.
This data trend would indeed make a pretty dismal graph, putting Scientology-style stats in “danger.” I wonder if the flunkies just engage in thought-stopping and ignore such things, or chalk them up to temporary setbacks in the bitter, pitched battle against psych suppression.
The number of orgs is close to stable – though of course it’s hardly budged in decades, suggesting that Scientology is moribund. The number of missions, and particularly of those with any sort of meaningful presence like a storefront, has however declined precipitously, indicating the actual state of Scientology’s decline when international management isn’t willing to prop things up for appearances’ sake.
* http://curiosus-scn.blogspot.com/2012/08/scientology-statistics-ot-6-7-8.html
** reconciling Mike’s number with the above
Great work graphing those stats!
They don’t lie (unlike Miscavige and Sea Orgers and Scientologists who lie to themselves and lie to others).
If you look at the Processing Chart you posted Mike, why everything above OT8 is a “mystery sandwich” for it says “confidential, not yet released” as far as ability obtained.
We are left in a mystery as to the astounding abilities of a person who has completed OT8 is yet to achieve. Afterall, OT1 to OT8 are the pre OT levels, on a gradient, nobody is OT prior to completing OT8, they are pre-OT,
OT9 one would assume is the first OT level with abilities to be cause over matter, energy, space and time.
Oh the sublime of it all.
And then Hubbard died and told Sarge he failed. LOL
No shit Hubbard, you failed.
Hey DM, you gonna produce OT9 with actual OT abilities?
Hey, get this! I just got an online survey from Scientology wanting to know how many events I’ve gone to, what did I think of tnem, and would I invite my friends to future events. I filled it out and sent it in!
They’re probably not going to like the answers I gave but I filled it out and sent it in.
Well, Alcoboy, whoever unwittingly reads that survey is going to be “shattered”. LOL!
OK….have some Mercy on me….I demand that you immediately stop with the “chart” for the Bridge…for the love of Mike (no not Rinder)…..
I am an old lady and I am having great difficulty getting myself back on my feet because I am ROFLMAO……every time I review this damned chart…….scheez…
The OTVIII testimonials read like they are written by people who are under the emotion of fear with desire to escape, analogous to a POW with a gun to the head.
I wonder if any of them would blink out distress messages in SOS if they could? This bullshit requirement that one can only achieve OTVIII on board a prison ship, ironically named Freewinds, is yet another indication that, yes, scientology is a cult.
And another indication that one is in a cult is the outrageous requirement to have some mandatory thanks given to COB.
This is a savage organization. Get out, all scientologists, and take as many family members and friends as you can. COB only sees you as a cow to be milked completely and then cast aside.
These people, these Still Ins, unless they’re under the radar, are far gone. No matter how old, or young they are, they’re just…gone. The only way to talk to any of them is the way you deal with dementia patients. I’m not being funny. One must humor them as one would a dementia patient. “Oh, you say Scientology is having this huge impact on society and the planet? That is so true! Isn’t it great? I understand you wonderful you must feel being part of this…” You see? You MUST agree with WHATEVER they say about Scientology, about L Ron Hubbard, about the SPs trying to stop man from going free – you MUST agree, or else, like dementia patients, they become EXTREMELY upset! Again, I am not being sarcastic. The ONLY times I get angry at or about the Still Ins anymore is when I conceive of them as SANE. They’re NOT sane. They’re mentally ill. When I keep in my mind the concept of them being demented, I don’t get angry. “Yes, indeed! David Miscavige is a wonderful, caring human being, and of course he has so many evil enemies trying to stop him, of course they tell nothing but lies about him because they cannot STAND the idea of man going free!” See, you feed this garbage to them and they spoon it up like ice cream, because they ARE demented, they’re not normal, mentally. I just had exactly this type of experience with a Still In, auditing on OTVII. I made one very mild observation (I really wish I could give you the full details but I cannot at this time) – anyway ONE mild observation that was TRUE but not altogether complimentary to Co$ and WHEW! A half an hour later I was bombarded with texts….enemy line…blah blah…so I went into FULL damage control mode and reminded myself that this person has dementia and NEEDS to hear very specific things. Which I proceeded to slather on. Boy did I slather it on 🙂 Back and forth, back and forth and wow did butter NOT melt in my mouth and I just told this person every lie he/she needed to hear until he/she calmed down and – get this – was finnally ASSURED that I had been handled. I’ll repeat that: He/She needed the utmost assurance and reassurance that he/she had handled ME. Talk about making someone right! Well I did it because., long story, antagonizing this person would be rather inconvenient at the moment. Not catastrophic,I wouldn’t lose any money, this person and I are not friends, but we’re on good terms and it is convenient right now to stay on good terms WHICH MEANS when the subject of Scn comes up I AGREE, that’s all. I just lie and agree, like you do when you want to keep a mental patient calm.
And remember, that should this individual ever wake-up, you have developed a bond of trust with them. IF the time comes, they will feel safe with you, as you have demonstrated that you are a “sympathetic” ear and shoulder to lean on.
Being there for those still trapped in the bubble, something we all should aspire to. It may be the only lifeline they have.
I would be ok being that someone for this person, but I’m not counting on it. The NEED to BELIEVE is just so STRONG…Lawrence Wright was brilliant in calling Co$’s trap, a “prison of belief”. Except for the UTRs, none of the Still Ins are being held against their will. They are where they very much want and need to be. However delusional their beliefs, they are believing what they very much want and need to believe and believing what they do is more important to them than anything else. One can only maintain one’s integrity with regard to the truth. That, and support getting the truth out there to greater numbers of people. But talk to them, reason with them, show them any facts, in their condition? Nah. A total waste of time. Like the proverbial horse being led to water, each of them will drink of the truth if and/or when they’re ready.
Just like each of US did. When we we were ready.
Each of us had a prison of belief too.
Could anyone have talked any of US out of the cherch, back in the day?
Would WE have been persuaded by anyone to leave, back in the day?
But each of us, when we were ready, walked out.
As with each of us, so it will be with each of them.
The so-called “success stories” are always written in an elevated state of elation, euphoria and relief artificially and mandatorily generated towards the completion of each major course of auditing or solo-auditing (that would have demanded enormous amounts of time and effort at a financial cost that could have in many cases mounted up to hundreds of thousands of dollars). The euphoria wears off completely after a few hours or at most days, after which the whole thing devolves into stubbornly persisting and pretending to believe in gains that are entirely delusional – i.e. believing in one’s own bullsh*t – because the alternative would be the hugely embarassing realization that one has been thoroughly conned at an enormous cost of time, effort and money. And that is where the importance of mandatory “success stories” comes to the fore. “Success stories” are mandatory because they form a crucial insurance policy for the “Church” against “parishioners” demanding the refund of their “donations” for “services” rendered, once they come to realize that they have been defrauded by a vast and sophisticated con game.
This is what an OTVIII Marijke Quereshi looks and sounds like:
https://www.davidmiscavige.org/videos/marijke-qureshi-on-david-miscavige.html
OMFG !!!!!!!!! There is actually a web site propagandizing David Miscavige . Joseph Goebbels would be so proud………
Let me see if I have this straight:
He’s on the ship auditing on OT 8
.
OK
Mid auditing, one night he walks out onto the ship’s deck and views a famous Curacao bridge and realizes that HALF of it was JUST painted yellow.
OK.
Except… not in the physical universe.
Uh huh.
In other words, half of the bridge had NOT just been painted yellow.
He just saw it that way.
And this was a HUGE win, and very exciting, because__________.
I mean, I get that this was exciting, for some reason, but…WHY?
Jehovah’s Witnesses ordered by jury to pay $35M to abuse survivor
The defendant said the church covered up her sexual abuse as a child at the hands of a congregation member.
Associated Press / Sep.27.2018 / 7:42 PM GMT+1 / Updated Sep.27.2018 / 9:03 PM GMT+1
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jehovah-s-witnesses-ordered-jury-pay-34m-abuse-survivor-n914146
They should turn the Freewinds into a “Casino Cruise Ship”, whenever it’s not at sea, fleecing the “victims” of Scientology . . . At least, it would be “profitable” then . . . LOL !
What’s that Neil Young lyric…”Old man look at my life, I’m a lot like you were.” You really have to acknowledge that it is policy to write bs if you’re a Scientologist. All that money and misery for a chance to write crap on a piece of paper. It curdles the sensibilities (Chan the gluggy noodle man, take a bow) but really, what does it say about someone who thanks LRH, COB or the tek?
Ummmm…..that they’re completely and utterly insane?
Once you have completed OT XV, you stand, facing the North Star, click your heels together three times, recite the words “Klaatu, Barada, Nicto” and, immediately you will find yourself confined with Xenu, for all eternity, not reaching “Total Freedom” !
Dave F.
It’s Klaatu barada nikto, not nicto. Gort would have destroyed Earth had you been given the responsibility of getting the message to him. There would have been nothing LRH, who is floating around the Van Allen Belt, or his megalomaniac minion DM, would have to save let alone clear the planet. You need to start over from pre-clear and work yourself up the bridge. There are additional fees and fines involved
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7GlgSh2wpk
Yes, indeed . . . “Klaatu, Barada, Nikto” . . . “The Day The Earth Stood Still” is a great movie, loved it as a kid ( the original ) and still do today !
Dave F.
At least I did better than “Ash” ( Bruce Campbell ) did in “Army of Darkness” – LOL !
Dave F.
The day the world stood still.
The day Teegeeak stood still.
OSD..The Day The Earth Stood Still….the end of tax exempt for COS….will have the Tiny Terror’s head spending wondering WTF Just Happened????
Mike, you wrote:
“Two people a week for a ship with 300 crew”
Now, if those 300 were serving the two that would be one thing:
However, my guess is that the two are servicing the 300. That is just ugly!
OT VIII #3.012. September, 2018. I was OT VIII #117 in July, 1988.
#3.012 did some auditing. I was asked to audit the GE and to make a new body for Hub’s return.
Thirty years seems to make a difference. I remember my friend Roxanne Friend who died in the 1990’s.
She sued Scientology and won before she died.
George, Can you tell us more info on why Roxanne Friend sued the church (and won)? What did the church do to her?
Just google it.
Very long story but I will fill in the important details. Roxanne was on OT VII when I met her at the Sand Castle in about 1986. She started talking to me about California and the Celebrity Center. She was very friendly but nervous. Later on a staff member told me she was in Ethics trouble. I did get Roxanne’s phone number and she said to give her a call. We started to talk often on the phone. She told me that she tried to blow from the level but they managed to get her back on. She said she was constantly followed by OSA. I was heading to LA on business and arranged to meet her at the CC. When she saw me, she freaked out instead of greeting me. She said I was following her and I could no longer be trusted. She was also starting to develop a cancer. When I returned to Miami, I gave her a call. She said she was starting a lawsuit against Scientology. A few years later, I learned she settled out of Court for a large sum of money. I saw a note on a blog that she passed in the late 1990’s. Somewhere along the way, I did manage to read her lawsuit. Very smart lawyer and I do not remember his name. She told me he was her personal friend. I got the impression later that men were very attracted to her as she had no known girlfriends but was never short of men – including myself – to help her in any way possible.
I knew Roxanne pretty well. I knew her in the mid-80’s when she was married to William. I got married in ’87 and after that we weren’t in the same professional circles. I think they got divorced… I remember hearing he’d joined the Sea Org. I hope not. Sweet man – I really liked him. I hope he got out. They had a graphic arts company and did quite a bit of work for the cherch, including working on Freedom Magazine – layout, printing, etc. I didn’t cross paths with her after that and then after I was out I read about what happened to her, her cancer, the cherch’s holding her against her will, and her death. I was livid – and horrified. I didn’t remember her winning a court case – good for her. Sadly in the end, the cancer won because she didn’t get a chance to fight it in a timely manner via modern medicine.
George, this partially answers my question at post #308 in the Karen DeLac You Tube Channel #2 thread at ESMB. Would you expand a little on your comment, please?
I have expanded on the Roxanne Friend angle. As far as the auditing on the original OT VIII, it was very technical stuff. Suffice it to say, it was a real challenge to complete the level for them. I would not even touch the stuff today.
My OT VIII ex-mother in law who died of a brain tumor in 1998 sued scientology before she died too. She sued because they took her money off account at Flag and paid it to Bellevue Mission for her son’s Sec Checks at Bellevue, Washington Mission without her permission, then wouldn’t give her a refund. They settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. She never went back.
Good for your ex- mother-in-law!
http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/friend1.html
I would like to know if that number 3012 still includes those who are no longer in that cult or are they still counting people like Mary Kahn who had to repeat that course?
I’m sure they are still counting people like me and many other OT VIII’s that are dead or gone.
That’s what I was thinking. So basically 2 of those “people” are actually you. I guess it shouldn’t surprise me since they photoshop people in and out of pictures lol.
I was wondering about that 3,000 number too. Is it a number made up randomly to make it look like they have more OT VIII’s than they do? Or is it in order and is proof that they only have 3,000 after over 30 years? When you do the math, only 2 on the Ship per week on VIII?
That 3,000 number includes all the OT VIII’s who did it before and had to re do it once or twice again after they already completed. Jim Karlergis said he has done and paid for the Bridge at least 3 times over. And that number includes the people who did it and then left the church or went UTR.
The CofS never reports total numbers, which would be embarrassing, so I believe that’s based on a project several years ago to count all the OT VIII completions listed in Scientology publications. As such it may not be complete, but if I recall correctly they did try to weed out duplicates and probably also anyone re-doing the level (if Scientology even listed such people). Earlier, TrevAnon referred to an aspect of such efforts.
Also, at their apparent current rate of a few dozen completions a year, Scientology won’t get to 10,000 total for a couple of centuries, and will never have more than 1 or 2 thousand OTVIII completions who are members in good standing and still alive – i.e., not blown or dead.
I agree. Just over 3,000 in 30 years is nothing to brag about. And I wonder if the number of people who have left Scn or passed away after completing OT 8 is far more than the number who are actually still in. So I guess when he says he joins his brother’s and sisters, little does he know that he can’t speak to half of them.
Question… for those who had to repeat the OT8, were you assigned a second number?
Don’t know.
Did Mike really mean that the Freewinds has a crew of 300? That seems like a lot.
300 is not a lot. It is just slaves and my ex-wife is one of them. If they were a real crew it would be different. I think that number is about the same old Hub had on the Apollo.
And of those several thousand OT VIII completions, nearly half came during a big push in the first few years – about 3 decades ago. Current pictures, and completions lists, indicate just a handful of people a couple of times a year a year doing the level.
Scientology recently claimed that they make an OT VIII made every day – but I think in their typical weasel-wording, that probably means just every day of the OTVIII cruises, and only those days. If I recall correctly the cruises are about a week long, so that means about 7 people per cruise, a couple of times a year, which fits with the pictures we see.
No wonder the ship is scrambling to fill up the other 49 or so weeks of the year with anything they can. Kirstie Alley’s reports from a cruise that docked in Cartagena a few months ago, indicate that besides the various conventions that the Freewinds advertises these days (and sometimes ends up cancelling at the last minute, apparently due to lack of attendance), they must run some events for high-level members that we don’t know much about.
I am witness of the OT VIII EP 5 close friends have expressed to me: Each one was really disappointed and each one had a very hard time in writing a success story that will fit RTC´s acceptance.
The EP was that each of my friends wanted nothing more than to leave the ship and never again be forced to pretend that all was fabulous, incredible, amazing, unbelievable and whatever other adjectives that them, and we ourselves, have used in the past in our own success stories.
And I was really, really surprised to see there have been only 3012 completions. Out of those a small percentage has departed this life time; yet a higher percentage has departed Scientology and its Church forever.
Miscabage leadership presents stats that just keep plummeting.
Thanks for your comment, Silvia. When you talked to these OT VIII’s who told you what they felt when completed with OT VIII, did any of them mention the ability gained, “the reason for amnesia on the whole track”? It seems to me that in all the OT VIII success stories, there is not even one hint of what the reason for amnesia on the whole track is. I mean I can make an educated guess as to why we have amnesia on the whole track, but I wonder if any of those VIII completions can tell us why?
Scientology sells lies
Amnesia is from you confusing your life with your Bee Tee’s lives
It is all a bunch of made up stuff
No science to reincarnation
I no longer believe we come back
If we did
Where is Tubby Hubbard?
If I see him again
I would like to put my boot up his fat arse!
I always say it’s make believe, DBS. Which it is. There’s no such thing as ‘gains.’ Especially when you’re charged $2,500 to run around an indoor track…several times, paying for each one.
Truth Revealed is there are no Bee Tees. The relief came when it was realized that the person himself did all the bad shit that he blamed on the Bee Tees. Hubbard figured out that a person could more easily give up someone else’s misdeeds rather than his own.
ctempster,
The official reason for amnesia on the whole track from the original OT VIII was the E/P of the level in 1988 which very, very few actually completed successfully. I know this because staff had to set up special course rooms on the Freewinds for those who could not pass the unprompted verbal test. To pass the level, you had to give the answer with no hints. You also had to demo it out. Now you are probably thinking that the answer is very complex. This is why so few actually passed. Those who could not pass were eventually “assisted” in saying the answer. You are probably going to laugh at this. The reason for amnesia on the whole track is because the thetan is actually a very simple minded being. So simple minded in fact that he forgot that he fooled himself. In other words, the reason for amnesia on the whole track is becaused of his amnesia that he was willing to forget that he was all powerful. Really simple, eh?
Almost all versions of OT VIII after the original version are sort of Hindu in origin. The old stuff about being and non-being.
So that “Story of a Static” was really the OT 8 EP (1988)?
As I recall the story of the static, that was the essence. I think that is another reason that OT VIII tanked. Most saw “nothing”
I have a clear memory of new OT8 (didn’t know his name) with a frown on his face. He was not a happy camper. How much is that level?
Yea, bla bla bla. None of this shit matters because the church is still running these peoples lives and thoughts and will try to continue to do so once they get off the ship and get home.
It’s noteworthy to me that none of these Success Stories “thank the Basics.”
I guess the Basics aren’t being imposed any more.
Before writing my Success Story on the ship, I was told, “Be sure to thank, the Basics, COB and LRH.” And so was everyones else, the whole two months I was there because you heard it in every Success given. All Success Stories have to be approved and even edited before one can deliver them.
I saluted to the bust of LRH and said “thank you Sir”
Just like every other brainwashed OT did before me
CRINGE
I never saluted but plenty of “hip hips.”
When you attested – did you copy what others have said before you because you could not come up with any actual gains from the level?
I know I did that during the entire Bridge. Copied what others said.
I noticed that no one ever gave any details – all generalities.
For example: “That level handled a big chunk of my case and I blew so much charge, my tone arm was floating”
In fact, after your OT levels, were you confused beyond belief and financially ruined?
That is the real EP of doing Scientology; broke, broken and confused beyond belief.
Yep! However, you used your Super Powers to walk out the door!!! You’re more powerful than the cult! It can be tough, but, you did it! Congrats!
I guess there must be some kind of a push to get more people through OT VIII and now they get to skip The Basics because Davey Boy needs to do more scuba diving and there’s not enough fuel because no one is paying to get the ship out of the harbor.
It’s always been really arbitrary what the prerequisites were, it was just more hidden before.
That’s because Success Stories are now handed to them, having been written by somebody else.
People in will find a way to extrapolate from these wins , they will manage to dream super abilities and gush over these amazing beings who made it .
From what I know , nobody is talking about superhuman stuff anymore . The favorite line now is ” I am happy , it makes me happy “. That’s a safe statement and kind of end all. Well , this beautiful morning makes me happy .
And I’m happy for both of us!
$cientology’s “wins” are a nearly non-existent rounding error compared to the massive wins by this site, Tony Ortega’s site, Chris Sheldon’s site, etc. and Leah and Mike’s AFTERMATH A&E show. And all the great books by Jesse Prince, Mark Headley, and others adding to the outside-the-cult wins.
Who knew you had to be an ex-$cientologist (or never a $camologist at all) for all the real wins to kick in?
I wake up everyday winning! And thank my lucky stars that that I left in ’82.
Based on your posts here you seem to have recovered extremely well and have recovered your inherent good natured soul and essential humor in the process. I congratulate you on maintaining and saving your humanity in the face of all the meanness and brain-washing this cult is capable. Cowabunga Dude!
Whoa whoa whoa back up a minute here.
I just read the EP of OT IV. Why do people have to re re re re re re do the Purif if the EP of OT IV is “Eradication of the last vestiges of the effects of drugs on the being.”
Second question. With less than 100 OT VIIIs being made a year how does anyone believe that they will ever reach over 10,000, especially when if they were to be honest, they probably have a minimum attrition rate of 25% or more after completion due to death, leaving scientology or other similar situations like not leaving but just flying under the radar.
My guess is they count even the OT VIII’s who have died just to make the stat look better.
Of course they do, that’s why they have numbers, so they don’t have to keep track of the person, only their number. I don’t know my deceased mother in law’s number, but she was one of the early completions and died of a brain tumor in 1998. I’d be willing to bet she is still counted.
I wouldn’t put it past them, Tempster.
Ok, I have a big issue here. Big issue. If this were real, he’d be the target of a world wide media campaign where revealing his new OT powers were awe the entire world, stop cars in their tracks upon hearing, and create a mass hysteria of a newfound, hithetherto unknown, profound new-era record-breaking level of human existence on the level of Khan in Star Trek. I dont remember this Earth stopping event. Nobody does. It didn’t happen.
What he is describing are two distinct pphenomena.First is called Oneness, which is like the Nirvana from eastern religions. The other is called Synchronicity, which is a phenomena known in the New Age spiritual movement (a real movement, unlike Dianetics). So Nirvana-like cognitions and synchronicity realizations are what is described as OT VIII?! Seriously? You could get these watching some streaming videos on GAIA (website), which is only $10/month. Spending thousands of dollars unnecessarily on OT VIII.
This article unequivocally provides evidence the fact that Scientology is the rich man’s man’s religion. It also indirectly proves why Hubbard didnt want his converts mixing religions or spiritual practices; competition.
To be fair, they said, ‘they painted half of it yellow overnight’.
Which itself begs the question anyway – how does anyone not notice the colour (and an unusual one at that) of a famous landmark they are living right next to?!
That’s quite some comment on the perceptions (or serious lack of) of someone who has arrived at that level.
It pleases me to know I’ve not missed out on too much. Or frittered away the money.
Wow! only 3012 in 30 years? Glad there are so little. Keep up the great work, Mike and Leah!
Only 3012 in 30 years!? These people are slackers.
Pathetic! “Delusional” – yes, and living in their bubble world.
Hubbard said about the higher OT levels something of sorts that it will “shake and rattle the hinges of the universe”.
And then the EP (End Phenomena) of the OTVIII level named “Truth Revealed”: “Handles the primary reason for amnesia on the whole track”.
The definition of OT (Operating Thetan): “Knowing and willing cause over life, thought, matter, energy, space and time.”
Nothing of this is manifesting and showing in the real world. After 30 years of the combined OT power, there should be seen some positive changes in the world, not only some pretende expansion with new Idle Orgs inaugurated by the Ribbon-Yanker-in-Chief.
An “ARC for all beings” and so many other orders of magnitude of winning. Time to put down a deposit on OT IX & X!
I just broke into my Piggy bank to pay for it.
OTVIIIs with ARC “for everyone” …please, someone, please!
Hold me up, so I don’t fall on the floor laughing!
That is SO untrue! A HUGE whopper, that one!
Let’s put it this way: they had ARC for whomever they were expressly permitted to have ARC for! And if you were not on this short list, forget it!
The 5 OT VIIIs I knew led quite insular lives with a tight circle of acquaintances.
That said, they were good at PRETENDING to like you, when they had to be.
As when they needed an Ideal M’org donation. Or the IAS. The latest donation kick that the OTC was on. Libraries, whatever.
Their reaching out to us Pre-OT Unwashed would always involve money.
Oh, and LOTS of praise about what “Big Beings” we were, and how THEY had learned that in order to GO OT one had to BE OT. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, all of which meant, “Cough it up, fast.”
In fairness to them, though, its understandable that the VIIIs were so non-inclusive, so NOT reaching out, so not living fully on all 8 dynamics. Its understandable that they lived very narrow little lives. In hindsight its obvious they were coping and trying to please Miscavige under an intense pressure that was actually a severe suppression and the lines they used to get money out of us were the lines used on them.
Well, you do it, I will too.
If you are displacing the ‘falsehoods’ in your universe with ‘truth’ from Hubbard, your brainwashing is nearly complete.
I’m not usually one for bible quotes but this one is appropriate. “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.”
OT VIII success story? They sound more like children playing in a parked car and pretending they are driving to some distant city. Their success stories are about their exciting drive and the imaginary city they visited…… This disconnection from reality wouldn’t be so bad for the world if they didn’t fleece people against their will and then spend the money destroying people who do not agree with them.
Half the bridge had sunshine on it when I walked out of session and I happened to look at it at that particular moment. What? You don’t think that’s a great win. Bwa ha ha ha ha ha
I am one of those unfortunate dupes who did OTVIII.
OTVIII proved that all these pictures you thought you had about your past lives belonged to them space cooties.You know nothing.Just like when you started Scientology.
Except 20 years older,broke,disconnected from family and desperately suppressing the real OTVIII cog:
I’ve bee conned.
As an ex OTVIII, have you listened to the Sarge story where LRH admitted to Sarge he’d failed and LRH is going to go circle the star as ‘rehab’ for himself?
How’s that strike you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpzU2x0PDD0&lc=z23yudtpesyfdjpwj04t1aokgn2qkh0qwroebiuevhf1bk0h00410
Congratulations on you big win from Scientology! Thank you for your honesty!
“ I too have been conned, duped, blackmailed, extorted and deceived by Scientology!
But I know now …. that I won’t get any worse!
I would like others to have these amazing wins!
So – I will make sure every being on the planet will never do any Scientology nor read anything written by the fat charatan L Ron Hubbard.
It’s the right thing to do.
The real EP for confidencial release above OTVIII:
We will figure that out when we cook up those levels.
I would love it if everyone who writes success stories would be asked to do it a month after finishing the level. I have certainty they would be much different if they would be written at all.
Has anyone else out here ever written one simply in an effort to get off the level and stop the money bleeding? I have.
Me me me me me. I faked EPs and wrote success stories because I knew I was overrun too – (translation, I didn’t ever want to be asked the questions that were being asked in the first place and was sick of making up answers for questions I had no interest in.).
Thank you Valerie. I’d totally forgotten about over run. Just like you, I had no interest in any of the questions or topics and so did the same as you. Truth be told I never truly had interest in any of the levels. Well part way through grade 1 I thought being able to spot the source of problems and make them vanish would be a good ability to get. Hell maybe I could even use it to help others too. But hey, guess what. I went through the grade 3 times and with no result at all, So I had to fake my way out once again. I cannot believe I was so drunk on the koolaid and “stayed the course” for so, so many years.
I drudged my way through OTV (and an embarrassing amount of staff and auditor training) before I realized that the “ruin” I came into scientology had never even been addressed and got really tired of pretending to be a “superior being” and decided to be myself again and enjoy life.
OMG Valerie!!! You and I have such similar tracks! All I ever wanted was the ability to be stably exterior just as I’d discovered was possible the first time I did TR 0. 40 years later I realized this was never going to occur, woke up and left. I’d been doing everything I did “hoping” to somehow “win” but in the end realized nothing was taking me where I truly wanted to go. Personal integrity is back and THAT feels so f’ing good I can’t tell you.
“I…got really tired of being a ‘superior being’ and decided to be myself again and enjoy life.”
Beautiful. There’s no better win than that!
Yes, I’d like to hear what their Success Stories sound like a month after the service.
Yo OT 8s –
When credit card bills come in and the cards are maxed out and you’re paying 29% interest and barely able to make the minimum payments. When the mortgage is due and you’ve already been warned by the bank not to be late again. When your kid’s 40K per month Delphi bill is due.. When you’re being regged for your next must-RE-Do service which has to be paid for immediately although you have no time for anything but work now. When your migraines haven’t stopped and you’re wondering how you’re going to pay your taxes because like a dutiful Scientologist you took that money slated for taxes and gave it the the Church of Scientology for something, you forget what now. When you need new glasses and you’re being regged within an inch of your life to increase your IAS Status because YOU are a BIG BEING NOW, don’t you know?
And so what if you declare bankruptcy? You’re an immortal being and you have only this chance , this lifetime, to go free…
Write another Success Story, please. Please do, OT 8s.
Discourse on how powerful you are, how free you feel. How limitless your horizons. Tell us exactly how with utter certainly you’re going to blow thru all these barriers.
Tell us all about it.
.
.
To: Aquamarine
From: David Miscavige COB RTC
Re: criticizing Scientologists for sacrificing for their religion.
Look, Aqua, no one needs a house and the US wog government doesn’t need any more money! What these people need and want is STATUS! Yes, you guessed it! STATUS! That is why all of these good Scientologists you are crying over give me, um,er, I mean, the church all their money is because they believe in STATUS and want more of it!
Now, isn’t that a worthwhile endeavor?
ML
Dave.
To:David Miscavige COB RTC
From: Alcoboy
Re: prior comment.
Are you fucking nuts?
Never mind! I already know the answer to that one!
The very idea that people want to go into financial insolvency in order to gratify their egos is the biggest pile of horseshit I’ve ever heard! Of course, only an egomaniacal SP like yourself would come up with such a ludicrous line of reasoning! I agree with Aquamarine that OTVIIIs need to wake the hell up and smell the proverbial coffee!
Asshole!
No Love At All
Alcoboy.
To: Alcoboy
From:David Miscavige COB RTC
Re: suggesting that I am fucking nuts.
YOU DON’T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE SUCH AN ACCUSATION!
OFF TO THE RPF WITH YOU!
ML
Dave.
To:David Miscavige COB RTC
From :Alcoboy
Re: going to the RPF.
You can’t send me to the RPF because you did away with it!
Dumbshit!
No Love At All
Alcoboy
Dear Captain Miscavige via Alcoboy 🙂
Thanks so much for your response, Sir and as usual you are 100% completely right about this.
Of course, you’re right about everything, always,. but in particular are you right about STATUS being senior to all other considerations.
Indeed, who NEEDS a house?
Talk about a waste of money!!!!!!!!!
Shelter is over-rated.
At best it serves as a false status symbol while draining resources that could and SHOULD be going to YOU, Sir!
Most of your loyal American Scientologists live in warm climates anyway.
What’s healthier and more aesthetic than breathing fresh night air and sleeping under a canopy of stars?
And as for those Scientologists who live in cold climates, well, let them move! They can make it go right.
So much for uptone thetans needing a house.
To continue; many of your loyal, trustworthy Still Ins are aged and have, or soon will have colostomy bags.
Now really, who needs a house when you have a colostomy bag?
Sir, I’m proud to tell you that all my credit card accounts are in collection and the bank just foreclosed on my house. I’ve stiffed everyone and by next week I’ll be homeless, but all of my money is being applied to my next IAS Status.
I’m so happy and proud to be one of your Elite’s.
I might be dressed in rags and rooting thru garbage cans for my evening meal, but I will have Status.
No one can take my Status away from me.
Much love,
Aqua
To:Aquamarine
From: David Miscavige COB RTC
Re: finally coming to your senses
Now you’re seeing things! Glad to hear it! There is nothing more important than donating every last cent you have to benefit me, um, er, I mean humanity!
As for Alcoboy, I’ve got something in store for him and his smart little mouth!
ML
Dave
Handles amnesia on the whole track but can’t remember what you had for breakfast last year on Nov 7th.
Claiming to know what happened trillions of years ago but not what you had for dinner 8 months ago on a certain day is very convenient to justify imagination.
Because the memory of dinner can be set up for a scientific test and proving. It’s reality is perceivable through testing. It can be double blinded.
Therein lies the cult mentality: truth is suppressive and must be destroyed.
Yes I would like to see their “ARC for all beings” manifested in the green room of Mike and Leah’s show. LOL Mike’s comment about that is hilarious! Are they getting the superhuman powers lrh promised? Are there any oatees who don’t get sick, who have psychic powers etc. There are some ot 8’s out there who could comment on that.
Rose,
I am aware of one OT 8 who just had part of a lung removed because of cancer. Guess the idiot couldn’t see the truth about smoking even though the level is named truth revealed.
I have seen three other OT’s who have died of cancer. Two were 40ish and the other 60ish.
In over 40 years in the cult I’ve been associated with many OTs but never saw one of them demonstrate ANY superhuman powers at all. Never. So I woke up and walked out.
Death is common in Scientology.
Good for you, Glenn! As I like to say, you used your Super Powers by walking out the door. NEVER to return. Congrats!
Thanks OSD. Very nice to be here! VERY!!!
The most super human of all powers arrived at my doorstep the day I knew I was done with my membership in the fraternal order of ecclesiastical cults.
I now have psychic powers and I can easily predict how dildo Dave and his merry pranksters will respond to most any situation, especially if it can be easily responded to with the truth.
In addition, my Hole track recall of life and times before and after joining a cult has returned and now that I have freed myself from the ultimate suppressive environment, flourishing and prospering has reached new highs.
And I am no longer sick ……. of call-ins for events, endless regging, mandatory briefings, endless mailings and all of the other tripe that makes the Cult what it is ………. (a trap and an implant station).
Thank you. well said.
0.I am pretty average.Got some problems.
1:Your engrams are everywhere causing all your problems,
2.All your problems are from your past 4 quadrillion lives,
3.All your problems are from you carrying 100.000 are so space cooties
4.Then OTVIII: Your past life memories were caused by the space cooties.You do not know s..t.
Option 1: I am still average.But i paid like $350.000.Everybody agrees I am OTVIII. If i say this it proves i am an SP,loose my wife friends,admit i was a sucker.
Option 2:Oh wait:I feel wonderful.Bridges are more yellow than ever. hip hip hurrah!!!!
“Where are the OT8’s?”
See this list to get an idea of where they are.
(It’s incomplete, as several OT8’s who post here have noted several times. 😀 If any of you guys out there has a better list I’d welcome it! LOL!)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KTq41-3rbSBe2xMWHGwZ-dn4BKDYx6kn13G3p2y9fug/edit#gid=0
This was the result of work I did in 2012.
https://whyweprotest.net/threads/ot-viii-project-where-are-they-now.103693/
Please be aware that WWP currently gets spammed. Only the first 5 pages of the above thread might be interesting – the rest is certainly not.
I LOVE this document. I’d love to see this updated!