Here is another astonishing statement from L. Ron.
It’s accepted as true by the bubble-dwellers, but in fact, it is evident that studying scientology in fact makes you dumber. The more you study, the less you believe you need to think for yourself and the more you are convinced that all you need do to have the answers to every question in life — from why am I crazy to how do I wash windows properly — is to “do what Ron says.”
That does NOT make a more intelligent person.
You can bet there was no “actual testing” at all.
But Ron said it, so it must be true.
This is taken from the same book in which he proclaims:
“…a quarter century of original research by L. Ron Hubbard, have brought the humanities, so long outdistanced by the “exact sciences,” into a state of equality, if not superiority, to physics, chemistry and mathematics.
…
“No such knowledge has ever before existed, and no such results have ever before been attainable by Man, as those can be reach by a study of this brief volume.
…
“Scientology, used by the trained and untrained person, can improve the health, intelligence, ability, behavior, skill and appearance of people.” [appearance?]
L. Ron Hubbard could never be accused of bashfulness.
His conceit is amazing. But he has convinced a lot of people he knew what he was talking about — no matter how bizarre, outlandish or self-promotional.
Quite a feat.
“But Ron said it, so it must be true.” I’m finding that if Ron said it, it’s probably wrong; even the reasonable-sounding pronouncements. The things he said that sounded too good to be true? FALSE, each and every time.
Additionally, each and every claim towards science or scientific was blissfully ignorant of the scientific method. I’d look up to check if he said the sky was blue.
“You can bet there was no “actual testing” at all”
How do you know this Mike?
I hate to complain but such a generality, come off it.
“You can bet there was no “actual testing” at all”.
How can Mike know this? Easy: Show an example of ONE actual test that Scientology/LRH performed, preferrably one published in a peer-reviewed publication. AFAICT, the closest he got was dashing off something new and saying “Try that.” to some flunky.
There’s NOTHING in scn that has been subjected to any testing standard beyond that.
That professor on Aftermath, in my view, describes Hubbard accurately: Malignant Narcissist.
The Malignant part created:
RPF
Attacked Paulette Cooper
Through his wife out like trash
Angry at Quinton for “damaging his PR”
Created the SP doctrine
Wrote Bolivar
Wrote all doctrines of critics
Etc etc etc etc
The Narcissist part created:
I have the only valid path to freedom
I am the only one to rise above the bank
I am the only one to go through Wall of Fire
I am the only one to create standard admin tech
I I I I I me me me me me mine mine mine mine mine
Malignant Narcissist. It describes him to a T
Brian, I think you are totally accurate!
Seems I have stirred up Back Porch Brian who is now foaming at the mouth. I thought Buddhists were supped to be gentle souls?
Notice how FP does not address any of my post. He is still in the bubble of the church.
Proof of his foolishness:
“Never defend always attack” L Ron Blubber
Your “post”? You are not seriously presenting that as some sort of “discussion point”? You mean that vile vicious nasty ad hominem attack on Hubbard above?
FOOL: Had Brian stopped at calling LRH a malignant narcissist, THAT would have been ad hominem. By then going into Lafayette’s actions supporting that opinion, all of which can ve verified, his post was less about his character and more about his behavior, which WAS that of an SP (as HE defined the term).
Meanwhile, Brian’s post DID spark some valid debate; This is part of it.
Thank Jere, facts act like kryptonite to believers. In Scientology facts are the same as attacks. Truth is suppressive.
I’ve learned long ago with Marildi and Oracle that facts make their brains explode.
Expecting decency from people who equate facts with being attacked and suppressed is like promoting Buddha in a fundamentalist Christian gathering: you become the devil.
FP is that type.
Read all of his posts. It’s all atttack don’t defend. Only someone still fighting SPs to save the universe could act so Foolish.
He does not engage in dialog, he only attacks: Ronbot
Getting even more frothy at the mouth now Brian eh? Dialog? With you and that nasty vicious drivel you post above? No I am never going to defend Scientology to the likes of you – attack all the way.
See…. thank you FP. You are still in hypno dreamland having nightmares. You were just honest with this.
Note: FP just announced that attack is his MO: he’s a church member fighting SPs and aliens to save the universe. He boxes with shadows.
We feel sorry for you FP. And that’s a fact.
I’d say I have exactly the right target replying to your daft comments then! You don’t feel sorry for anyone so don’t try and make out you are being nice and decent. And is “nasty” now your new mantra as regards my postings – by using it repeatedly you hope to either convince yourself and/or others that such is true.
Church member? You also keep using this mantra again in some sort of vain hope to deflect my comments about you by trying to tar me with some sort of brush. Anyone who knows any tech Brain will see through your comments immediately for what they are. Unfortunately for you you know that as well. But keep trying, any alleviation of your condition is better than none eh?
FOOL, your post starting “Seems I have stirred up Back Porch Brian who is now foaming at the mouth.” added nothing to the conversation but ad hominem. Additionally, I believe you assigned yourself as false cause of Brian’s comment.
Oh DANG! Bumped up FOOL’s “responded to” stat for the week (or in my case, the weak.)
The only fool here is you! Have you actually read Brian’s comment above – it is a purely rabid ad hominem attack on Hubbard and you accuse me of ad hominem! Conversation? What conversation? You must live in cloud cuckoo land.
Hey Jere! I hope his stats are hi. I hope he can muster up more nastiness. It must be lonely being in the cream of the cream-homo novis-1% of humanity. I kinda feel sorry for the guy.
I think we should all acknowledgement and grade FP in varying degrees of nastiness and agression.
The FP nasty stat graph. We can enjoy him more as a game than a real person.
I’ll start grading from 1 to 10. Maybe our stat and the one he has on his office wall can sync up!
Let’s play nasty FP stat graph sync ? lol!
Here’s a kiss ? FP
FOOL, they might be characterized as “gentle souls”, but that doesn’t make them doormats. Heck, wasn’t it Buddhists who developed Kung Fu? Thems no group to anger unnecessarily.
BINGO, Brian.
Brian, to the “malignant” list, I’d add KSW and word-cleariong whenever a student disagrees with a pronouncement; I’d also add anything that he put forth implying that he was the only-one who could have done the work. At best, he was a sloppy plagiarist, continually conflating others’ valuable insights with his (often) drug-addled brain farts.
I see below that a commenter wants to “disconnect” me from the blog. (I don’t give a hoot either way.) As have many others posting on here. But I thought you all thought disconnection was a terrible thing and shouldn’t happen? Ironic “Pot, kettle, black”?
Fool, I’m with you on this one. I don’t think you or anyone else should be banned from posting here or anywhere else on the internet. There are exceptions to that, like when someone promotes violence, but that’s just my personal opinion.
Also, I have no problem with disconnection as long as it’s a personal choice. There are certain people in my life I have distanced myself from because I didn’t feel it was healthy to be around them any longer. No one told me to do it much less made me do it. I’m sure others have done the same to me. Disconnection in the cult is a whole different matter as it’s heavily enforced and often very destructive to all parties concerned.
If someone is annoyed at your presence here, all they have to do is ignore it and move on to the next comment. If they read your comments and find them (fill in whatever adjective here__________) and that is upsetting, they don’t have to respond. Time to just move on. Personally I find it very helpful to have a diverse set of comments. I get very tired of preaching to the choir or being preached to by the choir. Contrary views give one pause and a chance to reflect on one’s own position and why it seems to be so righteous and precious. Maybe it shouldn’t be so.
Sometimes I find you annoying as hell but I have to say that a lot of things you say are thought provoking. I have had some satisfaction poking fun at you and some of your ideas. None of it too serious and it’s mostly lighthearted. In fact, I think it would be fun to sit down and shoot the shit over a beer or two just for the hell of it. You’re probably a whole lot more likable than you appear to be here at times.
If by “disconnect” you are referring to a call to ignore your drivel, the two things are completely separate mechanisms. Disconnection of you would be the moderator(s)refusing all your comments.
I’m sorry: I just bumped up FOOL’s “got a response” stat. Why oh why can’t I be strong enough to let him wither on the vine? Why don’t I just find something to follow other than the anti-scientology sites? The latter is mostly because I’m hoping to find out what happened to the friends I left behind;That’s how I found the sites at first: idly searching for current news on scn.
Fool, I shouldn’t even comment because it bumps up your “responded to” stat and OSA will take a win if you get people responding. But to clarify about the disconnection thing: it is one thing for a moderator of a blog to ban someone for reasons of not following the rules, being a troll or whatever reason he has. It is quite another thing for the C of $ to force kids to disconnect from their mom or dad, or force a mom or dad to disconnect from his/her kids. Or sisters from brothers and you get the idea. People who love each other are now told they have to shun their loved ones just because the church has worked on them and worked on them and forced lies on them so that they are turned against their loved one enough to believe the church and disconnect from them. These are two totally separate things. One is done without malice and one is done with nothing but malice. It is a self-preservation thing for the church to get rid of anyone who sees and voices objections to the squirreling and overts being done on people in the name of the church. They must cordon off those dissenters from the believers, else the church lose even more parishoners than they already are. So one disconnection is done out of self preservation and self interest, and the other is done to keep negative trolls from infecting the site.
I finally finished the novel “Now and Forever.”
doctors know nothing
science is bunk
medicine does more harm than good
the planet and this life means nothing, we’ve done it all a million times before so don’t waste your time
nothing is as it seems
we have the only answers to anything
Just study LRH.
……..
and now…decades later….I just know nothing at all.
In Scientology…every day is “opposite day”.
Regardless of what Hubbard SAID about scn, you gotta admit it was A LOT more interesting than the other Mickey Mouse cults that were around in the 1970’s and 1980’s. Metered auditing – WOW! The list goes on.
After I split scn in 1982 I hooked up with a gal who had blown about a year previously from a small cult called The Center For Feeling Therapy which was an offshoot of Primal (Scream) Therapy. Compared to scn it was a nothing-burger, consult your deepest feelings to know your truth. I suppose it sounded good enough to hook a few people.
Whether Hubbard was right or wrong about something, I don’t think he missed the opportunity to say SOMETHING about damn near EVERYTHING!
Hedging your bets now Richard? Back on the fence? It’s either one way or the other on this blog (well, apart from a few other incursions (Marildi – come and lend some support – haha), I am the only one on that side).
Laughter – I’m slippery and don’t want to get pinned down. Once again, I was out of scn before Elron put an iron grip on the organization and DM took over. Scn has some but not all of the answers to everything. How’s that for fence sitting?
While I’m here, below you asked why I’m against the idea or actuality of entities. I’m not against the idea or actuality of entities. You must admit that having such notions is not exclusive to scn.
Two quetions for you Mike and I hope you’ll respond.
1. Does David Miscavige really believe this scientology garbage, or is he just a sociopath whose running one of the biggest cons around and he knows it.
2. Why don’t the scientology folks publish this photo of Ron that you use for this post anywhere, or the other one like it with him sitting on a bed? Is it just too truthy? …this image of an old, fat, run down, rheumy eyed, rubber lipped, chain smoking, long haired, unkempt, sick-looking freak — who looks like he’s living out of a suitcase in a grungy room in a flop house on skid row — and who probably just shit his pants. ??
1. Both. It suits his ends as a sociopath to convince people he believes it. Not sure there is really a distinction between believing and pretending to believe when it informs and guid3s every aspect of your life and every decision you make.
2. Nothing even questionably less than perfection about Hubbard is ever said or presented by scientology. They think it spoils the idea that he had the answers to all of life.
Mike, they almost never showed anything from Hubbard after the late 70s except for the one where he is grinning like he is stoned, in the black beret. I am pretty sure that Jeff Baker composited in the beret to hide the cyst.
In those days “Film and Equipment In Charge” Jeff never used photoshop, all the manipulations were done in the darkroom. Not so today!
Spot on answer, Mike. I’ve often thought he is both a true believer AND a con artist. Scientology is all this highschool dropout has ever known. But also, like an old fashioned carney barker, he’s only concerned with people emptying their wallets for him.
Side note: I’m guessing that DM quit smoking at some point. He’s into weight training and scuba diving which would indicate it. However, considering how many scientologists smoke like chimneys and Hubbard’s 4-pack a day habit, he’s not about to advertise the fact.
I wonder what happens if /when Miscavige gets struck with a serious illness as most of us do eventually. I’m thinking of that great scene in a recent movie, “The Death of Stalin,” where Kruschev, Malenkov and the other vultures are hovering around Stalin’s deathbed, shedding crocadile tears while squinting warily at each other. That’s probably how it will be when Miscavige is on his way out.
I agree,bix. When the Dwarfenfuhrer is breathing his last, the vultures will gather around the deathbed, shed crocodile tears, and start positioning themselves to seize power. All this is probably irrelevant to Miscavige because, as Supreme Exalted Ruler of Teegeeack and the MEST Universe, he probably feels that he will always be around.
I’m a wog and don’t know much but today on Tony’s Facebook page there were concerns about Heber J. Does anyone know how to find out if he’s okay? Good grief, the man is 82. I feel bad for him. I would really hate for him to die in the Hole.
We have an episode about this coming
I never met him but I wonder what happened to him as well. I sure hope he is ok. How those years in the Hole must weigh upon a person…
Oh! you wicked wicked TEASE!!
An episode on Heber! Fanfreakintastic!
Mike – thank you for what you and Leah are doing.
You are helping lurker in ways you will never understand.
Members trapped in Scientology’s Prison of belief are watch your show and leaving Scientology
Quietly
Your show is working
We love you and Leah
Thank you!
That’s exactly Miscavige’s intention: that Heber Jentz, Shelly and I don’t know who else, just die in the hole. He can’t risk letting anyone out who’s been in that concentration camp for so long; they might open up and start talking. Bastard! Whatever else he is, he’s also a murderer.
That’s awful bixntram, but could he keep it secret if they did die there? (Love your picture 🙂 )
Thanks, Peggy; I’m not photogenic at all; this one was my best shot.
It’s a great picture. You look really happy.
I am at the age where I just tell the guy at the license renewal place no need to take another one, it’s not going to make any difference. (He always asks if I want him to take another though)
Fellow Wog here too Kati Maines and thought how sad this all is. Poor guy.
Kati, heber won’t(or didn’t(I’m not sure.) die IN the Hole. When he’s determined to be terminal, they’ll ship him off under an assumed name to a hospice, where he can leve the body peacefully and without notoriety, as has happene before; Annie Tidman comes to mind.
I might ring Dave up on this one and ask him to get Compilations Unit to include this story in the Data Series Evaluator’s Course as an addendum to the Outpoint Drills. To wit: Scientology Founder states after actual testing that IQ is raised by receiving Scientology. Church of Rinderology Founder feels this can’t be true and is assuming it is not based on his er, what? So Church of Rinderology Founder then makes statement based on his assumption in the hope that similar biased people will vent their spleens in the same direction (and not spot the outpoint that it is just his assumption). And on top of that, said assumption is not even grounded in the stalwart work of Ms. B. Craven in her white coat and rat-filled laboratory, even with no biased testing for IQ. It is just his assumption – and bias of course. Actually this is such an an easy drill in spotting outpoints that I doubt Compilations Unit will include it.
Yes, indeed, you couldn’t make it up!
Well, I am sure you are certain you are smarter because LRH told you so.
But you certainly don’t demonstrate that increased IQ in your comments here.
In fact, you might be Exhibit 1 in the evidence file that what scienology really teaches you is not to think for yourself. Just “think” what Ron tells you.
Mike, good comment. If Foolproof is an OSA troll why do we even indulge him here? Shouldn’t he be banned from commenting since he is so singularly anti everything you and the commenters say?
Because someone has a different view should not disqualify them from commenting.
As I have said a number of times I think differing views are healthy and the view of a fundamentalist scientologist is enlightening to those who may be trying to understand the mindset of those still inside the bubble. And as an illustration of how corrosive the thinking can be on a person’s humanity and ability to reason.
Dear Mike, I can understand Foolproof, I also improved my abilities with the practice of scientology. Actually, doing my academy levels learned me a lot. I can listen to people, I can help them to feel better and so many other things. I was in scientology since 1973. And I was already quite smart and it made me even smarter and happier. And I didn’t miss in 1982 that scientology ceased to be itself. That the “management” was a bunch of young mother fucker. That real scientologist just left in drove and was only left new people and old idiots who didn’t understand the subject.
Why to have studied the PTS course and not see that Miscavige has all the indicators of being and SP by the book ?
But I couldn’t leave the church without to loose my wife who wouldn’t see what I saw. So I stayed.
The dwarf didn’t slaughter completely the tech before 1996 and GAT.
Finally I left in 2010 with all my family.
Now, of course Miscavige is not a scientologist and never was. Most offsprings of scientologists are not scientologist by birth.
And sometime they only do what the family does like catholics, jews etc.
But one day they rebel. But they never did scientology on their own determinism.
Scientology zealots and extreme anti, are of the same sort : true idiots. I actually rejoin the viewpoint of Marty Rathbun on that.
And I personnaly hate Miscavige for having destroyed scientology and scientologists.
I’m like you, Fritz. Scientology, especially Dianetics, has helped me immensely. My issues are with the church, not with the tech. In my personal practice I take from the tech what works for me and then I just disregard the rest. I know Dianetics works but I don’t accept Xenu, the Marcab Confederacy or whatever you call it. I feel that the Sea Org was a big mistake. I feel that Pat and Annie Broeker were to succeed LRH as head of the church and that David Miscavige pulled a Joseph Stalin and turned people against them so he could seize power. I have actually met Miscavige and the encounter was not a pleasant one. Well, there’s my two cents.
Foolproof, (just going to jump in here then jump out) I am trying to understand (not that I need to know, just curious). Back in July you posted to me that you were no long in scientology, (I looked through my notes)
“Foolproof says July 20, 2018 at 9:40 pm
Hello Peggy, I missed your post so haven’t replied until now. I left the official Church of Scientology decades ago, but I never left the subject – works a treat! Ironically enough the shoe of help would actually be on the other (my) foot but then most on here have a huge button on the subject of help, solved at Grade 1 of course.”
and I got the impression that you believed in the tech. I understood that since on one of the documentaries two of the guest were ex-scientologists but still practiced the auditing tech. I may be off about that, but what I’m getting at, I don’t understand why, if you are out, there must have been a reason for you to get out too.?
Except for maybe an occasional never-in, like myself, those here had their own personal reason for getting out (just as you did). They had their own personal reason for getting in too, but just found that the cost of staying in had no value in return, and/or it was causing harm and it was time to get out.
Jumping out now 🙂
I agree with you alcohol, I had given dianetics data to people practicing psychotherapy, and the idea of running of locks, secondary, engrams was amazing for them. A revelation ! They really helped their patient. Of course I didn’t say that it was dianetics.
The horribles actions of Miscavige has ARC broken the whole universe with scientology. Just to say you ever had anything to do with it put you in jeopardy.
One point I think I have not the same view than you : Pat Broeker was the same kind of gangster than Miscavige. Like in a Martin Scorsese movie, the little blondy was smarter that the two cents actor’s studio actor. He just fucked him down.
Remember Broeker in the “event” of Hubbard departure, with his one page long date ! Don’t you think, if you are an auditor that this bloody date would have blown a bit earlier ?
They really thought that all this scientologists were suckers, which they were !!
Freedom of speech is easy when you agree with the speaker, but the real test is when you seriously disagree. When I edited a small local newsletter, I had occasion to say ” I completely disagree with what you say, but will defend your right to say it to the death.” (As long as you don’t resort to ad hominem attacks.) We got some pretty lively discussions going. FUN times.
Well, no, sorry to spoil your assumed and disparaging theory again, but my increase in IQ (to top 1%), was proven by independent tests (Ms. B Craven and her Lab Rats should take note here).
Could you, perhaps, show us the test results? I’m just some poor sod who can’t exteriorize and fling my thetan over to your house to riffle through your papers, so I’m reliant on you maybe posting a picture of your before and after scores.
Some months ago, while responding to my speculation that he might — coincidentally — also be a high school dropout, Foolproof retorted that, contrary to my assumption, he had ‘an enormous IQ (tested by “offical” “scientists”).’
I believe he meant official, rather than offal.
Now I never speculated that Foolproof had a low IQ. It would be easy to believe based on his responses here (I know others here have been impressed by his intelligence, but I am not). It just wasn’t what I was speculating about.
His response did suggest to me, however, that Foolproof was indeed extremely insecure about his own lack of accomplishment in the conventional sense (diplomas, degrees, actual pursuit of actual knowledge) and the widespread association of that lack with lack of intelligence. I’ll grant him that that association isn’t entirely fair (and remind him that I in fact did not make it). Yet he came back with knee-jerk reaction regarding this supposed testing of his own IQ. Apparently he thinks this gives his viewpoint more credence than it would if he said it without having an enormous IQ tested by official scientists.
Makes me wonder how many official scientists do IQ testing of run of the mill Scientologists like our Foolproof. Are they associated with actual accredited universities or does “official” mean they have some certificate generated by the IAS or a Scientology front group?
Also makes me wonder how many high school dropouts are running around in Scientology with such extreme insecurities about their intelligence based on that.
Of course, Mike’s original point that no scientific research has ever backed up Hubbard’s outlandish claims still stands. In fact, CoS makes you sign a statement before taking any course with them that you understand that it does not make any such claims. So from my standpoint, it not only hasn’t provided a scrap of evidence to back up the claims; it confesses with every sale of every course that it knows that the claims were false and that, legally, it must not ever be able to be construed as standing behind them. Lawyers! They do ruin everything, don’t they?
Here’s another one assuming this, that and the other. Ms B. Craven should you sign you up as Assistant Professor for her lab. Then you can wear a nice white coat and write long screeds about nothing in particular again, like you are doing above.
As usual, Eff Pee claims someone is doing something ‘wrong’, but fails to point to any specifics. Instead, he falls back on his tiresome ad hominem attacks. So-o-o-o predictable.
He is entertaining, though. It is like watching a rat scurry hither and yon as it tries to find its way out of a maze, which it will do, eventually, if the smell of cheese is strong enough, and the maze not too difficult for its higher-than-your-average-rat IQ.
Amazing when you read Cat W’s post it is mostly an ad hominem attack on me, and yet I am the one being accused of attacking ad hominem. Seems like you are all blind as bats on this site,
Well, if you’re not OT then I’m not going to bother pandering to your desires. But don’t worry, I really do have an enormous IQ. Must be very galling for you.
People that boast about their IQ are stupid. 🙂
Haha – a new Rinderine “aphorism” is here being mooted. So on the one hand Scientology is attacked for its claim of raising IQ (which is most of the import of this story) and a commenter (me) is attacked ad hominem as being stupid yet when someone (me) retorts that Scientology has raised his/her IQ then that becomes “boasting”.
Methinks he must assert too much.
Yes, true, Mike is constantly asserting this that, and the other.
Why do you feel so compelled to tell people about your “enourmous” IQ. It smacks of an individual who is trying to over compensate. Instead of talking about your IQ score, perhaps you should actually just prove your intelligence through your posts in the form of intelligent debate and well thought out responses. All I generally see from your posts are just slightly more articlulate then normal trolling of forum members and Mike Rinder.
Feel free to show us real evidence of your enormous.IQ score going forward.
“Intelligent debate” – here? On this comment’s page? You now are showing your intelligence. I’ll let you in on a little secret as you obviously cannot observe your surroundings – if I argued that 2 + 2 = 4 here 90% of the comments would be trying to find some way to invalidate the proposal.
Er, the whole import of the story is about raising IQ! Or didn’t you read it?
Yes, folks, it’s the old “mine is bigger than yours” argument!
On the count of three, everyone drop your drawers and show your IQ!
No prior chubbing-up allowed, Eff Pee! The penalty is two minutes in an ice-water shower!
Ladies may use the bum or chest version of the IQ test as they prefer!
DM may wear his lift shoes without penalty, but a schlonng extender is a no-no!
Modest individuals – keep your pants on! No physical verification is required!
Anyone may obtain an “Average Joe”, “Average Jane” or “Just Average” hand stamp, and bypass the inspection queue!
This allows those with great pride in their IQ to enjoy even longer exposure!
Note to Eff Pee: Shiny Mirrors are available in the LRH Hall!
p.s. Additional Exclamation Marks available on request! Free!
Damn, sad I dont have any time to concoct a witty response. Husband, business, etc. Those with a ginormous noggin don’t flaunt it, but you are like a stripper trying to make the best of her b cup breasts in a world of DD’s. Stop. Put down the keyboard and get a life ffs
This is a good example of the sort of childish and unfunny drivel that gets posted on here. If you are trying to be funny – at least succeed!
FOOL, I’ve found in many years’ experience that a guy bragging about his IQ or prowess betgween the sheets is likely to be embellishing things somewhat to make up for shortcomings.
A huge IQ seems only useful for finding ever more ingenious ways to foul things up. One of the most popular talks at Mensa’s Annual Gatherings is “Stupid things Mensans do.” She’s been doing it for years and just keeps coming up with more crazy things. I’d think she was making them up except I’d witnessed some of the blunders firsthand.
Foolproof,
Do you generally operate on your own assumptions that assertions are correct and true unless proven otherwise?
It has been stated that no one should ever ASSUME…..
It makes an ASS (out of) U (&) ME……………….
Yes, that is the import of my comments. Well done for spotting it!
I assume nothing and yet everything, but I don’t want to assert something, unless I want to. And whether the assertions are true, I would have to assume not, but they could be, but I don’t want to assert anything, unless proven, but that might be an assumption, one could assert?
Quite!
Sometimes their really are no answers…no one is ever going to agree on every thing….add to that everyone is entitled to their own opinion based upon THEIR viewpoint & life experience…….
Good god, I wouldn’t even know where to begin to try and unwrap FOOL’s word salad. It’s going to take more than just donning a white lab coat. If we’re going to have to word clear this stuff shouldn’t we have a competent sentence to dissect? I think there must be some sort of ‘out of valance’ behavior here. The other day FOOL responded with some semblance of sanity and now this post is so far out in left field as to be incomprehensible. You have to wonder whether he even read the Hubbard quote or what you wrote.
FOOL is good to have around though. He’s a prime example of brain damage caused by scientology. Very much like the video of that Bryan Levman dude someone posted the other day. It’s shocking to see their behavior and realize that they think they are completely sane while the rest of the world around them is just thinking WTF?
FOOL is useful playing the part of the court jester, continually giving us some levity. I shudder if that’s a real person not playing a role. If I’m wrong, he’s a sick puppy who needs help, so pity is appropriate for his evident capacity; I’d say diminished capacity, but I have no “before” with which to compare his behavior.
I think it’s valence with an “e”. From looking in the dictionary, Elron might have lifted and redefined the word from its meaning in chemistry and uses it to describe an assumed identity. “He was in his father’s valence.” I don’t think the usage is King’s English. My dictionary doesn’t show another usage besides chemistry. Assumed identities are probably addressed in other practices and psychology.
valence (chemistry)
1) the capacity of an element or radical to combine with another to form molecules . . .
2) any of the units of valence which a particular element may have
In a sense it fits in with Elron’s body thetan theory, identities attached to oneself in an almost molecular manner.
This is where you went wrong Richard – no doubt sitting there wasting your and everyone else’s time in the Academy trying to fit English words into Scientology – you didn’t realize that Scientology has its own lexicon.
And I see you have finally come off the fence now and stopped veiling your comments in clouds of pro and “agin” and joined the rank ranks of the unwashed bitter apostates (aka loonies). The same has occurred with Aquamarine who started off very mildly, but constant hob-nobbing with such types as post here is bound to turn you over to the dark side unless you are a well-audited case and well versed in the PTS/SP tech like jolly old me. This comment now will draw lots of Orc-like attention. Watch this space. Haha!
Hi Foolproof – I figured you would pick up on my apparent change of tone. I was out of scn in 1982 and never experienced the darker parts of the subject. My experience was almost entirely positive. The major negative was believing scn had all the answers to everything. It was an interesting and worthwhile life experience and I’d do it all over again.
What is being delivered by Miscavige is not what I experienced. Whether the subject itself can ever be revised and updated with the dark and fallacious parts removed is too big a discussion for a daily blog. IMO the rational discussion of the pros and cons of the subject ended a few years ago. People from independent groups used to show up and and say that things were free and easy in their groups but they don’t bother anymore. I wish them well and time will tell if they can update and survive. The few remaining scn blogs are hostile toward the COS and by implication the entirety of the subject and want it eradicated.
Richard, there never was a rational discussion of SCN or DN;couldn’t be done per KSW. You either accepted it all, bending things viciously sometimes to make them “fit”, or you were out on yout “but”. Lafayette didn’t brook no reasoning/reasonableness.
Yes, he saw Brian running “OTIII” on his back porch without a meter and with no previous Grades and immediately wrote KSW! I mean he had to – when faced with such stupidity!
Also – If you reread my comments here you’ll see that I’m attempting to apply some rationality to the Hubbard/scn belief that thousands of incorporeal entities are attached to our bodies.
Few people commenting experienced scn in the 1970’s. I provide historical footnotes and I’m a stat on a blog.
I also started in the 70s. But why are you on some sort of war footing against the idea or actuality of entities? If you haven’t gotten up the Grade Chart that far it is all unreal to one.
Foolproof, really now: “the dark side”?
You crack me up.
I’m not that far up the Bridge or highly trained but still there is a good deal that I learned and was helped by and that I like and appreciate and use, and will always use!
I’ve made no secret of my opinions in this regard. My experience is MY experience. I make no apologies for it, nor will I ever.
That said, I AM IN SOLIDARITY WITH THE PEOPLE HERE – many of whom LOATHE the tech – because there STILL exists LRH tech that is TOXIC.
This toxic tech – Fair Game, Disconnection, Ideal M’org fundraising, IAS fundraising and the obsession with “Statuses” – the toxic tech WILL kill the Church of Scientology. It IS killing it. It will continue to kill it.
Because I am in solidarity with those who have been abused by the organization,or who have experienced pain connected to this organization, people who have been disconnected from their loved ones, who deal with the wrenching pain of the loss of their loved ones constantly, because I at one with them in believing that what they are enduring is an abomination in this day and age, I grant them the beingness to have THEIR opinions, THEIR EXPERIENCES, and to be able to share them freely here, in this safe space that Mike provides, to share who they are and what they have experienced and what they think and feel, and to respect them.
I can look from their viewpoint. I was not hurt by the cult via disconnection but I COULD HAVE BEEN. I was not hurt by their Fair Game policy because the cult had no leverage on me but I COULD HAVE BEEN. Just as these people were harmed, I could have been harmed.
I am in solidarity with them because my own life experiences unrelated to the Church of Scientology was such that I can understand their experiencing so much pain related to Scientology that even the WORD “Scientology” can make them angry or sad or in apathy.
That’s what PAIN, emotional pain, DOES to a person, Foolproof. As a trained auditor you must know that, must understand that very well!
And what’s YOUR solution anyway?
It would appear that your manner of dealing with anyone who expresses their disdain for Scientology is to employ your excellent grammar and syntax to ridicule them and show them how thoroughly, how utterly and hopelessly wrong they are.
Whatever works for you in making your point is fine by me, Foolproof. It would never be my way, though, when something is important. I can take it and I can dish it out, but when something is important, if I take another route.
Actually if you would look closely at my comments they mostly deal with people’s absurd attacks on the technology, which is as you say, Scientology. I also don’t like people having a dig at Hubbard as he created the technology. As for the rest of what you say, most of which was not Hubbard’s creation anyway contrary to your statement above that it is – fire away!
Hi Foolproof,
Thanks for your response.
I do look closely at your comments, and indeed your comments almost always deal with peoples’ attacks on the technology aka Scientology.
I do understand that your experience is that Hubbard’s auditing, training and ethics tech has been of great benefit to you.and that accordingly, digs at Hubbard are not well tolerated by you because of the high value you place on the tech that he created.
We also agree that MOST of that which is objectionable and not helpful and downright harmful in the ORGANIZATION that is the Church of Scientology was not occurring when Hubbard was alive; meaning Ideal Org regging, IAS regging, etc. These financial rip offs are ALL Miscavige’s “creations”.
Where I believe you and I disagree is that the toxic policies of Disconnection and Fair Game are, were and always have been, Hubbard’s policies. That they were not EMPHASIZED, that they were not as KNOWN or EXPERIENCED by most back in the day – however germinal their FORM, back in the pre-Miscavige days, still,
they were not Miscavige’s policies. I mean, that’s just a fact. The toxic policies were and are and will always be, Hubbard’s policies, unfortunately.
I am able to look at what Hubbard created that I consider good and beautiful and helpful and look at what he created that was bad and evil and destructive.
In my eyes, what was bad cannot tarnish what was good, nor can what was good clean up what he created that was toxic.
I can admire and esteem someone without being blind to their “dark side”.
To sum up:
I can appreciate and use the tech that Hubbard created that I experience as good while wholly rejecting what he created that was bad and indeed, toxic. Good tech doesn’t cancel out bad tech; bad tech doesn’t cancel out good tech.
I can appreciate Hubbard the man for the good in him and I can condemn him for the bad in him.
I can be in solidarity with the people here who have suffered hugely from Hubbard’s policies and I can listen to people castigate Hubbbard to kingdom come and it doesn’t change a thing a single thing for me because my experience is my experience and their experience is their experience. And if their experience is as you say wholly due to misunderstood words then its still THEIR experience for purposes of this blog
Its really that simple, Foolproof..
I’ll leave you with this one question:
If you knew NOTHING about Scientology other than that families and loved ones were forcibly disconnected from one another by mandate of the Church’s scripture – if this were ALL you knew, what would your opinion of this religion be?
The old chestnut of Disconnection: This practice is practiced by virtually everyone in the universe, in varying degrees. Social Media is a classic example of it – “friending” and “unfriending”, “blocking” and all the other similar terms to do with this, and all that. So – say if you had a Scientologist son or daughter or relative come to stay with you and was constantly chiding and nagging you to rejoin the Church and be a “good girl” now, what, after a while perhaps, might you start thinking? That you should kick them out from your home? Thetans have been connectiong and disconnecting from each other for all eternity. It is the basic ingredient of action in life – “reach and withdraw” etc.
So yes it is unfortunate to say the least and perhaps there is a better way of handling it, such as “yes, we can meet but no talk of Scientology” which was my suggestion a few months back, but how long would that last, and to be fair from both sides of the situation? If that is your only real beef then maybe you should re-evaluate your stance and go and get some auditing from an Indy group or whatever (as in reality I doubt the Church would have you back after your postings here, you “bad girl” you! Hah!) Perhaps Dave might revise the policy based on my suggestion but then do pigs fly, or indeed “do fish swim”?
Classic FP. This is the exact sort of comment that makes it clear you are a card-carrying scientology fundamentalist.
Trying to defend the abusive and harmful practice of disconnection as “the old chestnut” “practiced by virtually everyone in this universe” is idiotic. This is the defense that is put forth on the scientology.org website. You are parroting that.
What you and scientology ignore is that this is ENFORCED as a tool of CONTROLLING and PUNISHING people.
Go and read the story of Mary Kahn, Lori Hodgson, Sara Goldberg, Bernie Headley etc etc etc
I am sure you HAVE read them and choose to pretend they don’t exist.
In this case, you are an apologist for cruelty, not merely an apologist for stupidity as you so often are.
I am not defending anything. Nor am I attacking its obverse. I am simply stating the obvious. And no I have not read the stories of the people you mention nor for that matter the Church’s website. The fact that the Church has an actual written policy on this does not negate the fact that the rest of the universe outside of Scientology circles practices this in one way or another. Perhaps I might see this factor in a different light if I was in your and the other people’s situations you mention, admittedly. The fact of the matter is that nothing will ever change on this unless there is some sort of compromise on both sides, and I thought my suggestion, although admittedly far-fetched and currently improbable, was at least an attempt to resolve it that might possibly occur. There may be other ways of solving it. I don’t have an opinion on it either way – for or against – it is just “there”.
You are defending scientology disconnection. Read your comment above that starts with the old chestnut.
You are on this blog commenting and don’t know what happened to Mary, Lori etc? More evidence you are a fundamentalist scientologist afraid to read anything that doesn’t fit the approved party line.
I truly feel sadness for you FP. Time for you to wake up and smell the coffee.
For what it’s worth, here’s a third definition from dictionary.com
3) the capacity of one person or thing to react with or affect another in some special way, as by attraction or the facilitation of a function or activity.
(sounds like BTs)
body thetan (definition) – a thingy type person affecting ones activity or function, sometimes appearing in groups also known as clusters
Somewhere on the internet I came across a belief that all conscious entities start off as part of a cluster, eventually breaking off into individual entities. – Whatever! – lol
One last thought and then I’m off of this. From the many comments from people who did the OT levels, it seems many of them transposed or altered the concepts to fit their own frame of reference. If someone gives credence to many past lives, then he or she would have many past identities – butcher, baker, candlestick maker – villain, thief, saint and sinner.
Looking at identities as simply that rather than connected to entities might make some sense, NOT saying that it does – haha
“What you and scientology ignore is that this is ENFORCED as a tool of CONTROLLING and PUNISHING people.
Go and read the story of Mary Kahn, Lori Hodgson, Sara Goldberg, Bernie Headley etc etc etc
I am sure you HAVE read them and choose to pretend they don’t exist.
In this case, you are an apologist for cruelty, not merely an apologist for stupidity as you so often are.” Mike, good comment, and I think you have FP’s number down. He can’t fool you.
In my own case, my daughter said, “Oh mom, everyone knows you aren’t an SP; I would never disconneect from you.” And then 3 weeks after that comment, she and her brother disconnected from me not because they wanted to but because the church FORCED them to.
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Yep, it’s a more than useful yardstick to allow FP’s comments as a comparison to the generally more balanced and thoughtful ones on this blog. And of course to further demonstrate the stunning arrogance such blinkered fundamentalists apparently require in order to justify their inability to either recognize or admit to the inherent abuses carried out by its members as dictated by its founders’ demonstrably flawed and paranoid writings and utterings.
Funny, but I read on ESMB that you were regarded as quite an asshole at the Org where you were. “Stunning arrogance” would fit you to a tee as I read. As for “more balanced and thoughtful ones” on this blog are you reading the same blog?
Oh no, not another incisive divisive omnipresent in the present full blown free zone poisonal attack! Eff Pea, have mercy! Don’t hoard all the IQs! Save us some of those IQs so we can think deep thinks like deep thinkers think!!
Yep, you and me both, eh? Yeah, I probably behaved in ways that I otherwise wouldn’t have outside of that environment back then, as did so many others. But I’m my own worst critic and did at least recognize it and do something about it. You, on the other hand, haven’t and evidently seem unable to. You think your ad hominem abuse doesn’t just mirror the very same in you? You only strengthen the case against you.
Funny isn’t it, but the so-called ad hominem abuse is always started by someone leveling something at me, as you did, then when I say something – usually milder – back, I am accused of “ad hominem abuse”. And by the way, I am not making any case for me. The evidence is above. And for virtually every post I make. So stuff it!
No coco was not an asshole, he was seeking them in Hyde Park running around naked. That is why he was booted out as a security risk.
EO available if needed. We all kept copies as it was so funny.
Yes, I thought my use of “big” words and convoluted sentences would send most of you running for the hills, but that’s why you are all here anyway, despite Hubbard telling you how to study.
Hubs: “The study itself is therapeutic by actual testing.” Please reference the testing, FP. Surely that’s not asking too much.
Contact the Church, I am sure they will assist you in your endeavours to find an Achilles Heel.But even if it was proven to you, you still wouldn’t accept it and would try and make out that people “memorized the words” to invalidate the testing.
More ad hominem. It appears that’s all you have to offer here, FP.
You should look up the definition of ad hominem – it doesn’t mean writing a few words. What exactly was the ad hominen comment I made to you? (This will be interesting.)
Okay, FP, here was my first post:
‘Hubs: “The study itself is therapeutic by actual testing.” Please reference the testing, FP. Surely that’s not asking too much.’
Your response:
“Contact the Church, I am sure they will assist you in your endeavours to find an Achilles Heel.But even if it was proven to you, you still wouldn’t accept it and would try and make out that people “memorized the words” to invalidate the testing.”
Sort of speaks for itself. You didn’t give me the reference I asked for and instead made a comment about me, and made the assumption that I wouldn’t accept something if it was proven to me. Weren’t you going on a few posts ago about assumptions? Again, every one of your responses, to me and everyone else here, has been some sort of attack (“always attack, never defend”) or character assassination.
I’m guessing (yes, just a guess) that’s the main pleasure you take from coming on this website. You obviously know what most of the people who post think about scientology, you don’t want to engage in serious discussion, so I think you come here just to amuse yourself with annoying people. Can’t you think of anything better to do with your “wins?” Go help someone else for God’s sake.
Binx! ☺
Hubs: “Never defend, always attack.” FP demonstrates once again how thoroughly he’s learned that lesson.
Here’s another one who has conveniently forgotten that the attack (on Scientology) comes first. Oh! That’s alright then – you can attack Scientology but Scientology must only defend. Don’t bother, you still won’t get the simple logic.
I know of no Indy Scientologist who has taken with them attack nasty critics.
I went to a gathering of about 50 x Scientology critics, Indy’s who practice and new people who practice.
I sat with folks who still like Scientology and we shared ideas. I was very critical of Hubbard and they listened. They told me of gains they had and I listened. We were respectful to each other.
You my dear friend are still in the church. You my friend play ping pong with ideas and have zero capacity to understand critics.
That is because you still believe critics are criminal SPs. Your purpose for being here is to upset and cause inharmony. But that doesn’t happen except in your mind and in the mind of your seniors.
Your stat is chaos because you are saving the world from SPs and aliens still.
Only a bubble dweller could be this nasty consecutively throughout all of their posts.
You are a hater, pure and simple. You think you are doing good, but you are simply verifying for all who read here that being a Scientologist makes you into a nasty self righteous arrogant human being.
Your posts make us sooooo glad we left this mind destroying immoral cult.
Thank you for your service FP. You are better than a clay demo of dangers of being brain washed. Bettter than word clearing the word brainwashed.
You are a thing of pity. I hope one day you can wake up. I truly wish that for you.
Ah! Back Porch Brian is back. Wondering when you’d show up to throw your 2 cents’ worth into the ring. (No-Wynski seems to have disappeared as well under the weight of his mountain of continuous overts.)
So there you are at a meeting of Independent Scientologists, drifting from conversational group to conversational group, dropping your little blood sucking leech-like time bombs into the conversation such as “I didn’t like Hubbard’s style of writing” or “What did you think of OTIII? I did it without a meter on my back porch for 3 weeks and without any setups (brave of me eh?) but it didn’t work!” – with the (hopefully vain and covert) hope that it might deter people from further practising their religion. And you are obviously not there to defame Miscavige or fund raising or any of the usual complaints as these people know all that and as for them being “Scientology critics” this must be a slight misnomer on your part eh?
So if I was the organizer of that meeting a) you wouldn’t be invited to the next one and b) obviously there were no old HCO staff present otherwise you would have been given the old bum’s rush and severely “disconnected” from the premises. Still, Indies can be “polite sorts” these days i.e. a bit namby pamby when dealing with “difficult” people like you.
As for your comments that I am a hater, OSA staff, still in the Church etc. – none of which is true, and which anyone with any savvy reading my posts would have realized. So unless you are a microcephalous idiot I can only assume that this is your attempt again to belittle my comments by tarring me with the usual ad hominem brushes (gasp from the audience!) because I point out things which others don’t see and you and your ilk don’t like it.
And as for your statement of: “Your purpose for being here is to upset and cause inharmony” [sic] it seems to have passed you on by that the vast majority of comments on here are dong exactly that. But it seems like that was your purpose at the Indie meeting or were you just there for a “friendly chat”?
Advice to future Indie Meeting Organizer’s: Disconnect Brian immediately and fair game him as well! He’s sure he deserves it! Haha!
That was good and nasty. Your stats are up. And thank you for demonstrating what happens to a person still fighting SPs.
Fool Proof: demonstrating the effects of Hubbard better than a clay demo.
You provide the service of aversion therapy. The more you talk the more we out here are grateful for being out.
Thank you FP?
You’re welcome! Please stay out. You can try a bit of aversion therapy – confront an HCOB for 3 hours without blinking.
“Flunk! You blinked! And started foaming at the mouth!”
Its hard anymore to put my head around I used to buy into much of that. Jesus. I can say that after enough is enough one day, it becomes to hell with what Ron would do, rather, what would YOU do. 😉
Zen Little, we all fell prey to that fat slob. And, we all learned our lessons. And don’t forget the internet is a powerful tool that we can all use.
Yeah, 30ish years of it, although the last 15 one foot out the door, or genuinely 3ft behind the bullshit by then… but yes, took a while to get him out of my head admittedly, and you all were a big part of that. I’m so done I even changed my moniker ;-). It takes aalot to undo a good round of brainwashing, much less decades. Often a thorough rearrangment of reality just to get back to self, and unfortunately for me a few trips to the hospital over a 5 year period. My wife says I drank my way out, and she is correct. But I’m quite good finally, left the booze and Hubbard, enjoying life now and the grandkids, thank you Old Surfer Dude.
I’m so happy you are doing well now!
Yeah, Zen. Living well, the best revenge.
Well, time to crawl back in bed with my cutie as we (mostly) laze around this lazy Sunday morning. She pops her head up from time-to-time to correct my grammer or spelling. She’s amazed that I fell for Tubby’s PR so long ago.
I suspect that all of our IQs improved by LEAVING that toxic environment, and would increase yet again by finding something better to do than watch that multi-national criminal organization (or rather: DISorganization) implode. I’m sure my BP would drop.
way off topic but anyone from here on the east coast please keep safe
This one is a hellava storm. They’re currently trying to get a million residents inland.
Unfortunately there is no org in the Carolinas. If there were I’m sure the OT’s would send the storm out to sea and away from land.
Well there’s supposedly a mission in Columbia (state capital, mid-state). We’re joining in the million today. Hope the rest left yesterday.
I don’t believe there has been on in Columbia since the 1990’s. My former auditor and another guy started one there but I believe it is long gone.
There is an org in Bogota.
Which is probably right now working overtime to find a way for Miscavige to keep his unauthorized Colombian police medal.
I was referring to Columbia, SC.
Well Doug, lets just hope against hope that there are at the very least enough way to happiness booklets to hand out. If only they could include a recipe for beans and rice and a map to lumber yards they could claim to feed and house anyone who needs food and shelter.
🙂 Peggy.
I know Old Surfer Dude. The important thing is for them to find a safe place to wait this out, but what a horrible situation to be in. So sad.
Thanks, Peggy. Here, we’re hunkered down in a solidly-built house which has weathered its share of storms. We’re also high on a hill, so the forecast two-to-four feet of rain will likely just drain down to the local reservoir, also solidly-built and a true survivor. Guess we don’t have to worry about a draught this year, right?
Sounds good Jere Lull and this isn’t your first storm. Had to smile at your looking at the bright side and can cross drought off your things to worry about 🙂 Please keep in touch. I can’t do much other than send good thoughts.
Jere Lull, I’ve been watching the weather channel and hope that you are safe and sound.
It’s been quite the quandary I’ve worked my way though in the last decade. Back in the early 80s I met a few of the “old school Scios.” Really nice people and they treated me with respect, kindness etc. Their lives didn’t have the heavy regging and they were free to come and go as they pleased. I was told on many occasions by them the tech is worth knowing and keep your nose clean and you’ll do well. They blew the Org when the insanity of money is God reached boiling point and with the enforcement of NOTs.
What I know now is that it is irrelevant what they thought of the tech and I was guilty of not looking for myself. Hubbard delusions are Hubbard’s delusions no matter how you package them or how you are treated. The state of Scientology is a direct result of a belief system, it’s not a science, the research is all make believe and didn’t exist anywhere except in Hubbard’s mind, but it spread like a forest fire through those that wanted to believe. It’ll haunt me to my dying day that I took it all on board so easily. Those nice people weren’t OT or improved human beings, they just wanted to believe so bad that they put Hubbard on a pedestal and believed his every word. Those people are long gone. I wish them well but I’d have to reckon they are singing a different song these days.
Maybe Hubbard believed his own bs in the early days but his character as an officer and ship’s captain cannot be disputed, he’s a despicable asshole. Believe him at your own peril, the above example is typical of Scientology. It’s sugar coated poison.
It has taken me more than 10 years to figure out it’s “sugar coated poison” which is a nice description. You can get a © for that I Yawnalot
You know, if even a small fraction of what Scntlgy/LRH claimed was true, then I’d probably still be putting up with all the bullshit. But, as Jason Beghe would say, “show me a fucking clear”. Purif is bullshit, the L claims…exterior with full perception?,…bullshit. Major stable wins? Bullshit. And on and on. I did like the intro comm courses. I actually still use that stuff. But so much chaff…so little wheat.
Absolutely agree with you. There is a ‘basic’ therapy that Scientology possesses evidenced by the fact you can feel pretty damn good sometimes with some types of auditing & comm type courses. But they are the carrots that lead you into a minefield. It’s all surreal now trying to grasp the fact that Hubbard was actually attempting world domination and we got so caught up in it all. Scientology has got to be one of the more mentally punitive organizations to attempt a take over of the societies of the world.
As Mike so sincerely said on A&E, “what in the fuck were we a part of?”
Thing is, from my experiences here with you exes, y’all are mighty damn smart. Good writers. Good thinkers (at least now that you are post-cult). And pretty humorous too. So, despite having Elron’s smelly foot on your necks for so long, you picked up a positive thing or two along the way.
Unfortunately, picking up a “positive thing or two” comes at so high of a cost, that it’s not worth it…
What Robert said.
We might have picked up a thing or tow, and our IQs might be above room temp, but we got that BEFORE signing up for Tubby’s making the able less able. The OCA, perticularly after several readings, measures nothing real, unless you count how much the test-taker had absorbed Ron’s peculiar take on life and the universe;that would be a negative gain in all cases
Hubbard’s recipe for baby formula (barley water and corn syrup) is an example of 1950’s sensibility, yet Scientologists were feeding this crap to their babies into the 1980’s.
Crap is right. I know one Scientology kid proudly fed with this from his first breath. A more sickly, cranky infant who grew to be a sickly, cranky child one would be hard-pressed to find. His cult parents blamed it on his “case” (restimulation from former lifetime(s) His Scientology mother used cigarettes to keep her weight down and also of course because she was addicted and couldn’t stop. The father was a longterm koolaid drinker who’d do anything LRH said to do. Several times the kid was near death in early infancy because of allergies. Poor little tyke was denied proper nutrition from his first breath. A miserable child in every sense of the word..
There are a few kids who were fed the barley corn syrup and Scientology implants of A=A=A thinking
One tried to kill himself by drowning
He is an alcoholic and suffering
Parents still both in and think it’s “his case”
Another died of drug overdose
Another is really messed up and can’t function
The sad reality is Scientology disables the able
The barley formula is one of the reasons that they disallowed children at the Int Base in the early 80s. The children weren’t doing well and we were told that the “barley formula was being squirreled” which is scio-speak for altered.
Probably the parents were sincerely trying to get their kids off that stuff but at the Int Base it is Hubbard’s way or the highway, So the parents and kids were moved to Happy Valley or left altogether.
For a while there was a gang of feral kids at Happy Valley (not too far from the base), trying to grow up without parents or guidance, but they shut all that down in the 90s. Then the rule was abortion, or move out if you want kids. The big exception of course was Hubbard’s grand-daughter Roanne. Hope she tells her story some day.
Today they just don’t allow children at all. They are all too old for kids anyway.
What kind of “new civilization” has no children? A dying one of course.
Interesting data, thanks, Bruce. Babies sickening on the barley formula so Miscavige’s solution was – No More Babies! “…a gang of feral kids at Happy Valley…” Jenna Miscavige Hill was one of those feral kids and so was Laura D!
“What kind of ‘new civilization’ has no children? A dying one of course.” BINGO! Wow, it THAT ever Nail On The Head, Bruce. IF FOR NO OTHER REASON than this, the Church of Scientology has doomed itself. Its interesting to me. The Hawaiians, the Incas, the Mayas and Aztecs all did themselves in this way. The Roman Catholics, now, they used the old noggin. They mandated celibacy for their clergy, so that any property after the clergy’s death went to the Church.. Their priests and nuns had to be celibate but their BELIEVERS – ah, that was a different story! The RCs made sure that their people had PLENTY of kids and for added insurance on that they prohibited all birth control except abstinence. COS doesn’t allow kids in the SO and they HATE when org staff and public have children too. So really, there’s no way that they’re not doomed, buuuuahahahah…
Aqua, your post brought up an old memory for me. When I was at Flag in the early 80s, I overheard a conversation between a distressed mom on course and a very young sea orger. The mom (who was what Hubbard described as a “Guernsey-type”) was worried about taking care of her infant child and wanted to breast feed. The young and obviously clueless sea orger was trying to convince her she needed to stay on course to complete her checksheet in time and just have someone else feed junior with Hubbard’s ‘whole track’ derived ‘barley formula’. I don’t know what became of this very attractive “Guernsey-type” mom, but I didn’t see her around anymore after that so I’m hoping she followed her maternal instincts and blew that pop stand (the friendliest place on earth).
PS Your discription of the unfortunate tyke with the Kool-Aid swilling parents makes me think of FOOLproof. Perhaps he was raised in a similar manner and that is the source of his present state of mind rather than spending so much time auditing the incidents outlined in A History of Man (What to Audit). Maybe both. Regardless he is a prime example of a miserable homo novis/OSA troll/KSW scientologist.
Oh! Look! Ad hominem comments about Foolproof and I wasn’t even on this particular thread! I think it is only fair to say now Miss Lab Rat, that you are a prime example of homo sapiens.
In the parlance of the cult, that would be Homo Sap. I’ll take that as a compliment. Thank you.
Holy Xenu
Members do feed children the barley corn syrup formula in PT
Corn syrup is nasty for children
Scientology is lethal
Another pearl of wisdom from the Great One: Whatever turns it on, will turn it off.
So many Scientologists died from diseases related to the smoking of tabaco but they continued to puff away even more frantically when they became ill.
Today cigarette packets come with a health warning – scientology needs to have the same.
“What turns it on, will turn it off.” Bwahahahahahahahahahahah!!! Make believe.
Scientology was his final “Affirmation”, only monetised.
That’s one of the best photos of Old Fish Lips.
Old fish lips… mmmm… yep, works for me. Some bottom dwelling sucker fish, you know, the ones that suck their way up the sides of aquariums.
Well, he states you may get a ‘SMALL” rise in their own intelligence”; maybe that is Why people have to redo Student Hat for 3 times, PTS Course 5 times, another 3 or 4 of Solo Course and so on.
Thus, small, by small increments the parishioner may attain a little tiny bit higher intelligence.
So far not good; Miscavige probably needs more training, like a 1,000 times the Student Hat and maybe then his intelligence will increase a mini-nano increment.
A mini-nano © increase would be hard to measure, except on Miscavige, who is so small in so many ways that any increase would be significant…
To put it another way, Hubbard’s conceit is typical of people with his type of mental illness (now commonly known as Trumpissistic). What’s really amazing is that he has followers.
If the study of Scientology improves your appearance, Ron’s barber didn’t get the memo.
His body, face, and teeth didn’t get the memo either!
Nor his dermatologist, who should have taken that gigundo cyst out of his scalp long ago.
Yes, leaving that cyst (I recall reading it protruded from his forehead) is something I really can’t understand. Did he think he could just postulate it away? Didn’t he wonder that it might be cancerous? Sigh.
Ewwwww
He is repulsive
He is a shit stain on humanity
Vague references. Unverifiable ‘facts’. Truthiness. Workable lies. Behavioral conditioning. Fundamentalist competency. Subjective intelligence. Good-time friends. Profound sounding bs. Every-kid’s-a-winner testing. Bwahahhaha.
This is a great testimony for the stories and comments on this site! Well done! I will write a commendation for your Ethics file! You are awarded an intensive of Expanded Dianetics at your local Org.
Not nasty enough FP. You need more nastiness to get your attack stats up. I think your nasty stat is in emergency.
Dig deeper into the SP doctrine. Or maybe word clear Bolivar on the word ruthless.
Yeah, slipping eh? I know what I’ll do – I’ll go out on my back porch and run OTIII for 3 weeks without a meter without having done any previous levels also! That will turn me into one nasty son of a bitch! I will have to become a Buddhist then and make out I am all sweetness and light! But I could squirrel that then as well!
You are still in the church FP. Beyond a doubt. Or a shut in that has never interacted with the real world since getting out.
Being in the real world usually softens a person from the meanness of Hubbard SP silliness. But your mean silliness implies strongly you are still fighting Hubbard’s demons.
But as with all good Scientologists, they are now your demons.
I think maybe your obsession with my auditing OT 3 stems from the fact that I never died, freewheeled, red tagged or got pneumonia from not running it as Ron said. He said to not run it as he mapped it out could kill.
You are stuck in the incident of me disproving your guru’s infallibility. But you cannot think with this as your whole life will fall apart.
Where you are in your office is a place you conjure up insults as your goal and purpose.
You say you are in the top 1% of intelligence. I’d say you are completely unaware of yourself. If you were that intelligent you’d realize you are seen as a laughing stock and a pity.
I don’t hate you Foolproof, but I am fierce when it comes to principles.
Your distorted hateful fight against critics who oppose an evil demonic cult deserves exposure. You are doing a fine job of exposing yourself. You don’t need me for help.
The SP doctrine has corrupted your soul. All of us know who and what you are, what Hubbard’s SP doctrine has turned you into: a sort of demonic Gallum.
Your mean spirited communications only continue to verify to all who read you your unaware maligned nature.
I hope one day you can see yourself. It will be a shock! Just like what happened to us all. Maybe not in this life. But I hope it is.
I wish you well.
BTW, I am not a Buddhist.
No no, that OTIII thing only applies to people who are not dead in the head! Didn’t you know that? And of course you didn’t run it as Hubbard suggested anyway – you had to do it “your way” eh? You still spent 3 weeks running it, or doing something with it. Surely if there was nothing to it you would have desisted in the first hour? Seriously though, I know of 2 people at least who were very badly affected by that, which is why I wish Mike would not post or allow that sort of stuff.
By the way, I am only “mean” to those who are mean to others, for instance Aquamarine is not particularly mean if at all so I am not (particularly) mean with her. And the meanness is always started by someone else on here, but then you and others seem blind to that. The comments section here is just full of mean postings, just look at your “Ad Humanoid” comments – actually insults as you say, about me above!
I see you are saying that you are not a Buddhist now although I recall you distinctly saying that you were receiving Buddhist teachings a while back. Is that another group that you “joined” and “found it bad and left”? Too mild for you eh? So, not content with your rantings on here about Scientology, you had to pop in to an Indie meeting and see if you could disrupt that, somehow eh? I wonder why?
Sociopaths are very convincing.
I have always said that Ron wrote exactly like he was being paid by the word. Lie, back it up with a lie, tell another lie to support that, on and on and on. Define a new use of a word by hundreds of more words that don’t make sense either. (It’s all SCI-fi, the readers will figure it out, right?).
Hubbard is saving social science and raising it to the level of a hard science? I find that hard to believe since he didn’t understand hard sciences, especially physics, his speciality. He drops social science quickly once the establishment don’t bow down and welcome him as their savior.
I guess he didn’t believe in “physician, heal thyself.” He could have used some work on appearance, among other things.
LRH’s launching dianetics is ground zero for scientology – one huge get rich scam and legacy of justifying the scientology cult of abuse. He really was living the dream. His dream, others nightmares. What a putz.
“Actual testing” consisted of re-doing the same IQ test over and over. If you do the same IQ test again and again – voila! your IQ will magically appear higher because you know how to answer the questions and you can do it faster the umpteenth time through.
It took until I got out to realize that’s what was happening.
(*slaps myself on the forehead*)
Yep, like doing that ridiculous OCA over & over. I found you can put that line anywhere you want without much effort after awhile. Does that make me a super duper new type of human or just a manipulative shadow operative… you know a Scientology type person, AKA an asshole with delusions of magnificence!
**like** I EP’d on that while taking the test itself.
When ever I hear outlandish claims for anything, I think of Lron and his scam. The same goes for ‘4 out of 5 dentists….’ What was wrong with the fifth dentist? Was he a paid up member of ABLE? Did all the time he/she spent at the Org prevent them from responding to the survey?
Every human being needs to build and install a bullshit detector in their brain and use it at all times.
I can attest from personal experience that my intelligence rose to untold heights while I was in Scientology.
Well, to be more accurate, it was my IQ test scores that rose.
Well to be brutally accurate, after doing the exact same test dozens of times I had all the vocabulary questions memorized. And the “arithmetic” questions are easily aced by realizing that three of the four choices offered in the multiple-response format are completely ridiculous. No actual figuring required.
So I got a perfect score well within the time limit every time. Either my IQ is 160+ or the way Scientology tests IQ is asinine. Since I like to think I’m pretty smart, I’ll go with the impressive IQ.
That’s how it goes with all the “gains” of Scientology. Self-delusion is the most effective form of quackery. Nobody wants to think they could dedicate their lives, pay tens of thousands of dollars and sacrifice their retirement savings for something worthless. So they invent some gains and talk themselves into believing they are worth it. No hypnosis required.
Bruce, isn’t it also true that if a male and female get the exact same number of correct answers on that test, the female scores 5 points lower than the male? Seems to be what I recalled from them days.
yes. that was true while I was in a position to know. I’ve spread that information far and wide.
“IQ” bragging is quite common, and I generally heard it from men… I still offer a retort which includes pointing out that they get 5 more points just for having a dangly thing. …along with dropping a question of why it was needed.
same test, taken dozens and dozens of times, over and over.
Yep.
I stopped poking the poor examiners with my pointed comments about that aspect of “validity”.