Mike: I’m a Scientologists living out in the sticks in British Columbia, Canada, quite far from any Org. I have been working on a Doubt Formula and I’m making my announcement. Thank you for this blog.
Nora Curiston
Step 6 of my Doubt formula submitted by Nora Curiston
I want to be perfectly clear here that this is a Doubt formula on the corporate Church of Scientology, not on the works of L Ron Hubbard. I have always found his technology and philosophies to be true for me. The fact that he insisted that I accept nothing unless it was personally true for me was a large part of what I respected in the philosophies of Dianetics and Scientology. And, although many who read this might consider that I abrogate the right to say this, I feel that L Ron Hubbard is my friend and would expect no less than that I should freely and honestly do this formula.
In doing step one of the formula, I had to remind myself of the following from the Creed of the Church of Scientology: “That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others.” This means I have a right to investigate all aspects of the Church, not just magazines, promo pieces and events provided by the Church. In pursuing this inalienable right it does indeed take one to some very dark places regarding the Church and it is necessary to be strong and hold a location and honestly decide for oneself what is correct and what is not. Just as anything can be put in a Church mag, anything can be said on an internet website or blog. In fact with these as my two primary sources of information, along with personal experience within the Church and with the technology and also personal stories from trusted friends, I was left with three specific areas that I felt I could personally verify and would therefore consider valid data upon which to base my decision. Believe me there is a world of difference between the fabulous and glossy pages of an IAS mag and the terrible stories online from former Sea Org members and the like (these are from people who have devoted 20 and 30 years of their lives to the Church and works of L Ron Hubbard – not just goofs who have not read a book). I am not saying any of it is right or wrong at this point except for these three specific areas about which I have some personal knowingness:
1) The Ideal Org program is off policy. Ron never pushed for lavish MEST premises and did not condone solving Scientology with anything other than Scientology. It is simple to find the LRH references on this.
2) The use of confessional and O/W auditing for anything other than the unburdening of the individual in order to allow for his or her own spiritual freedom is out tech. There may be instances of sec checking to spot and route out plants etc. but the use of endless hours of this type of auditing as a response to any small gesture of disagreement with the Church, as is our inalienable right per the Creed of the Church, is out tech and an abomination of the original intention of LRH’s technology in this area.
3) Arbitraries being added to the definition of a floating needle. Ron clearly defined a floating needle, period. This needle manifestation is our indication that the entirety of the purpose of LRH’s technology has occurred at any given time. Something has been released, something has blown, some measure of freedom has been achieved. To tinker with the definition of this manifestation is to block or at the very least mess up those moments of release and freedom. Ron is very clear about the problems of overrun.
Ron says to LOOK.
That is what I did.
I looked and looked and looked and looked and was amazed to find that I didn’t melt! Instead I felt the biggest TA blowdown I have felt in years. If we are creating free beings it makes no sense to me that we are not strong enough to see whatever is there and make our own decisions. In fact, provisos against looking on the internet basically make it impossible for any Scientologist to thoroughly do a Doubt formula.
And so I looked and looked and looked and looked and waves of charge began to blow. And so I looked some more. When I first began this search, I was devastated. I know to most of you I am just someone out in the field, not doing much except Extension Courses, but I assure you that I and many others like myself have been Scientologists through and through for decades. I have always conducted myself as a Scientologist and continued to study and apply the works of L Ron Hubbard. I was on staff in the ‘early days’ and I am Clear. My main crime was that I put my Church on an automaticity – just let it run tickety-boo ‘knowing’ that it was winning and believing everything that I read in the promo. When I finally started to take it off automatic and take some personal responsibility I realized that I had committed the biggest overt of this lifetime: not being ever vigilant about the most vital technology on this planet.
I would also like to say that I have the utmost admiration for staff and sea org members who in the past and present continue to work tirelessly to forward the works of L Ron Hubbard. I have no quarrel with most staff and public and it fills me with an unfathomable sadness to have to separate myself from this group. It is solely with the current management of the corporate Church of Scientology that I have disagreements and those disagreements are enormous. I believe that they are in the process of degrading the very tech, ethics and admin they have been entrusted to safeguard.
I cannot softsoap the contempt I feel towards David Miscavige.
It breaks my heart to know that many old friends and associates will feel they can no longer associate with me. But I have come to realize that if the cleared planet that we all so dearly would love to see would be this world that Miscavige is creating then it is not worth fighting for. It is not Scientology.
When I realized the enormity of the fraud that has been perpetrated upon the parishioners of the corporate Church I truly experienced that familiar ‘stars have fallen’ sadness. But as I continued my research, I found that Ron’s works are in fact still being honoured and utilized in the field by people seeking original LRH checksheets and materials and that needles are still floating and that people are going free in the fullest sense of the word. I found that the stars had not fallen but are in fact still in place just as Ron said they would be – waiting for us.
And so, I hereby declare myself to be an independent Scientologist.
I wish you all well in the days that come and hope that you will always be just a little suspicious when someone tells you not to LOOK.
Nora,
Thank you for your very personal write up. I could feel every line of it resonating in me. VWD!
and welcome outside!
Some of my favourite Ron stories are ones where he punched somebody in the nose, drank rum on the bridge of his ship at sea…stories he himself told and had no compunction about telling, stories old-timers used to sit around and tell, reminiscing, smiling, laughing…remembering an old friend. I have no patience for people who, if they could prove Michelangelo was a wife beater, would run out and tear down the Sistine Chapel. I know a man who, because Roman Polanski was once convicted of statutory rape (he slept with a teenager who was a few months away from legal age, a mistake I myself made once in my twenties) refuses to watch any movie Polanski ever made, as if they aren’t the great movies they are. I separate the man from his work. Ron might well have been an asshole. Let me spell this out: I DON’T CARE. His work stands. I’ve witnessed actual miracles, and I mean, stuff the Catholic Church would shit if only they could get their hands on it. Go, mutter about LRH and deprive yourself of the wins available from using the tech. That’s your business. I got my own to attend to.
Heh heh. You’re my kind of man, Dave. Always have been. Glad to see your integrity intact. Glad also to see you’re still strumming, still loving coffee, and still living the good life. We got some catching up to do when you’re ready. 🙂
ARC,
Chris Black
…(grin)…thanks, Chris. You ever get out to BC?
I’m coming out again next year. Plan on being in LA for a month or two, then up to Vancouver, and as I need to pay Les and Anita a visit again, I imagine I’ll have to pop through Grand Forks. Spoke to Nora tonight. I’ll forward my contact info via email to you both. Been a long time. Glad to know you’re both doing wonderfully. All my best….
All those stories and comments have been “sanitized” out of Scientology. I also used to love the little asides and stories. They gave such insight into the man (as opposed to Ron the demi-God or whatever the current promotion is).
So does that mean the BC tapes have been altered too?
Oh, most indubitably. 😉
CB
Nora,
Great write up, beautifully written. Wise and courageous. Welcome back to life.
I am sure this will be the beginning of a beautiful friendship with yourself, and all else.
Do not WORRY too much about discovering that Ron was not a God, and that not 110% of all he wrote was true…He was still a genius who discovered and developed great tech. to help man go free.
There is plenty of it for you to use and enjoy in the Indie field. I do!! Many others I know do too. In a Free way.
And what’s not right and not true to you, you will find out and not use. Simple, because now you are out of the hole and up on the hill, so you can observe. And having the courage and wisdom to see what you saw and act as you did, the rest will be much easier.
Doing the Bridge as an Indie is soooo nice…soooo much fun. When I left, and living in a small, far away country, (Israel) the bridge and the Tech. seemed so difficult to reach for and do. And wonder of wonders,
soon enough a whole Indie group materialized right under my nose (Dror Center) with anything I could dream of, and more. And I’m having a ball doing the OT levels there. A true ball – No arbitraries, no enforced anything, just Looking and Being. And if you think Ron is wrong on whatever…that’s fine, he’s wrong, who cares? You just use the many things he was dead right about to go free.
Welcome, well done. Have fun!!
Hemi
Hi Nora, Congratulations and welcome. I live
in Canada too. Hope to see more of us on this
blog.
Woohoo Canucks!
RCS like to drape itself in the Creed for PR purposes, but what they don’t say is that in the hierarchy of their cherry-picked Orders, Policies, Bulletins and whatnot, the Creed ranks at the very bottom rung of precedence for what must be obeyed.
I’ve read so many stories from ex-members where they tried to adhere to the Creed in the face of some arbitrary edict from Joe Schmoe Ethics Officer, and they got tossed into the meat-grinder for it.
I think if RCS really did follow the Creed, they’d shortly be unrecognizable or out of business.
Hi Nora,
Been a long time. Do you remember the days when I supervised you? Long time ago. You mention the loss of friends in the org, in the “church”. Well, you’ll meet many old friends and make many new friends out here. And some of your friends still “in” will eventually confront the scene and make their own doubt decision. You may see some of them again, too. 🙂
Anyway, Les and Anita had mentioned to me Dave went to see them for clean up. Great success story of Dave’s by the way. And say hi to Dave from me. So I knew you were “out”. It’s good to know you’re there. If you and Dave want to get in comm, my email address is “standardtechauditor@yahoo.ca”.
All my best to you both,
Chris Black
OMG! This just keeps getting better and better. Great to find you again Chris!
I like your doubt formula and when I left I felt the same as you but as I looked more I started to look ar LRH himself and now I have many doubts on him and the tech all together.
On line I have met a woman who as child was were up in the ship’s anchor room where she could have been seriously injured or killed, also she was separated from her father and all this was well before LRH was sick or went insane.
That is just one story.
All I say is if you are looking keep looking.
I think there is a lot of good a person could get by applying tech but at this point I question all of it. I think auditing may very well be a form of hypnotism or maybe you are going past life. I don’t know if anyone knows, and I no longer think something is true simply because LRH said so. All I am saying is that at this point I question all of it while still admitting that I could benefit by using it as well.
Good Luck and welcome
You bet. I’ll continue to look and find out what is real for me.
Hi Eric. I’m glad you posted this. I have to admit that looking at stories that cast LRH in a negative light are still the ones I find most difficult to confront. He has been such a stable datum for me this life time and still is throughout all of my researches. I have to admit that I still have the tendency to glaze my eyes over and not really look at such stories – as if just looking could actually hurt me. My solution to this is simply to be willing to see what is there and make my own decisions. I am actually brushing up on the Data Series right now to help me sort my way through all of the info. Where I’m at right now is that for me LRH is somewhere on the spectrum between an infinity of wrongness and an infinity of rightness, as are we all. It is OK with me if he made mistakes, had bad moments, let his dynamics get of whack etc. If you follow the time track of his researches you will find that he often changed his mind about things. I don’t need him to be a God. A lot of it comes down to intentions. So far I haven’t found anything that leads me to believe that he wanted anything other than to make people more free and able (quite the opposite of what I see in current Church management). And for me I have no doubts about the workability of the basic auditing tech. I’ve had enough wins to know that it works. As my husband Dave suggested, it helps if I separate the tech from the man himself. If the tech works it works. Ron may have made mistakes and possibly even have done some ‘bad’ things but I’m willing to let my friends be imperfect.
“it helps if I separate the tech from the man himself. If the tech works it works. Ron may have made mistakes and possibly even have done some ‘bad’ things but I’m willing to let my friends be imperfect.” Nora I think that quote from your husband and you states it perfectly. Marty said something similar on his blog lately which was that he doesn’t look at a person’s pecadillos, but instead looks at their products, and if their products are good and if the tech works, then it’s good and the rest is irrelevant. I know the tech works. That is my stable datum. I am willing to not expect perfection from my friends and I hope they grant me that same beingness too. Welcome to the free world! I’m so glad you’re here.
Reply Comments
Congratulations, Nora. You’ve passed the Final Practical. Welcome!
Inspiriing and eloquent, Nora. Welcome to the sunshine! I am sure yourcourage will inspire others to do the same.
New friends…..yay!! Great writeup and picture. It’s a breath of fresh air to engage in free conversation and ideas with others who can have viewpoints. Welcome to freedom of thought!
Nora, well done on breaking thru the Iron Curtain, we welcome you and may you do well! There are so many out here in the Independent field that will help you along the way, the horizons are wide open now that you have broken free, it only gets better.
Congratulations and welcome, Nora!
“When I realized the enormity of the fraud that has been perpetrated upon the parishioners of the corporate Church I truly experienced that familiar ‘stars have fallen’ sadness. ” So well stated…
Nora, it looks like you’re not the only one who got out. Look at the few public here, getting VERY well serviced by the 30 staff who are there to suck the money out of their wallets, I mean, service them. All 4 of them.
http://www.freedommag.org/english/LA/issue02/img/pg01c_1.jpg
“It breaks my heart to know that many old friends and associates will feel they can no longer associate with me. But I have come to realize that if the cleared planet that we all so dearly would love to see would be this world that Miscavige is creating then it is not worth fighting for.”
Beautifully stated. Now the new chapter begins. I think you’re going to really like the sense of freedom that LRH did want us to have all along.
Thanks again for all the wonderful comments. I feel very welcomed!
Thanks for your wonderful and courage write up. Please keep reading and sorting things out. Keep an open mind and follow those outpoints!
“It would be clean and attractive enough not to repel its public.”
LRH ED 102 INT, 20 May 70
The first person that vocally took issue with the Ideal Org fundraising in my org was worked over in Ethics. He responded submissively and was not a problem again. The rest knew to keep their thoughts to themselves.
Great write up Nora!
I congratulate you on your courage and ability to look. Really liked your 3 points and you are correct. I started in 1969 and left in 2010. Watching the slow erosion of everything good I liked about Scientology getting altered and trashed, finally I had to make a choice. The phone calls and attempts to reg me for the basics failed miserably but the missed FN’s and out tech almost killed me. Had to go! Thank God I did. Much better out here for sure. Enjoy yourself. The nightmare of suppression and gross FRAUD should be ending soon. You will find everything you need and many friends, for sure. Your write up will help many! Warmest Welcome!
I will echo most of the others:
Welcome Home, my friend. You were missed.
Thanks for your Doubt Formula Nora. Your integrity is shining through.
If I might make a suggestion, it would be to stick with the Creed as your guide. The principles in there will get us through. Our survival does indeed depend upon achieving brotherhood with the rest of the universe and our ARC for others must continue to increase. In the wake of the treachery in the Church, some have turned aside from this truth and succumbed to their BPC. That’s not the way out.
Steve
Well said Steve! So true. Can I post a quote from what you wrote on my blog?
Nora – what a bold statement! I applaud your courage in making this public announcement. Congratulations and I wish you all the best . Enjoy your freedom.
What a beautiful, heartfelt, and sincere write-up, Nora. Thank you so much for taking the time to pen those thoughts. It is truly one of the best that I have ever seen. You’ve put into words, the observations and conclusions that most Independent Scientologists have had at one time or another, and have quietly shown the way out for thousands of others who remain behind.
Thank you!
Nice write up Nora glad to see you out and about.
Wonderful, wonderful write-up, Nora. Thank you!
http://youtu.be/HDmhIa4zjgs
Thank you for this film clip. I watched it all the way through.
Nora, with all due respect, your comments about staff are almost a complete deniability of the LRH view on responsibility (an election of cause). I worked in Scientology over 35 years, mostly as an auditor, CS and course supe. At this point, I certainly do NOT have much admiration for staff and sea org folks. In fact, quite the opposite. I have not just contempt for those who forward the orders re: disconnection and the breakup of families and the promotion of bankruptcy, but I find NOTHING to admire or even respect in the way these people act. As beings, they are in TERRIBLE case conditions generally (cannot observe, very low self determinism – almost nil, unhealthy physically, robotic, etc). Admire? If I was reasonable, I’d pity them. But I’m kind of unreasonable in this area. Miscavige is responsible for his own actions of course, but would beentirely powerless if others didn’t carry them out (as is such with all dictators).
Joe — I dont think you should generalize so heavily. Look at the purpose people have for what they are doing. To claim that every staff member should be looked upon with contempt is not logical. Believe me, I am no defender of disconnection or taking people’s money and driving them into bankruptcy with false promises. But I have met a lot of decent, caring people on staff. Perhaps they can all be categorized in some way or another as dupes, but they cannot all be categorized as lowlifes deserving of contempt. That is a fundamentalist attitude that is too similar to the other side of the coin — ie the true believers who condemn whole categories of people because they dont see things the same way they do.
I agree with what you are saying here Mike. I just said I have contempt for those who participate in forwarding disconnection policies. I’m sorry if I came off as broadly condemning everyone.
I recognize that while I do not admire most of what the people currently do on staff, most of them also have the same purposes I did when I joined staff, that of helping themselves and others to states of greater awareness and happier lives.
🙂
+1
I totally hear you Joe. I guess I’m just so fresh to this new view that I still have empathy for most of the staff I know in my Class V org. Truly until recently I was completely lazy about my Church and just toddled along with the group. I understand that there are bad apples – I can think of one in particular in my org, but the majority just need a wake up call. It’s the fear of looking that seems to be the real hook. Once you start to look I would hope that the majority would finally see the light. Those that don’t, well….
Thanks for your reply Nora. Essentially I agree with you. Actually I didn’t know too many bad apples in my years in the CoS, Almost all were good friends of mine. I’ll just add that what I’ve seen is that in totalitarian groups, usually the only way that one can look and continue to look is to LEAVE the suppressive atmosphere.
I agree. There comes a point where once you’ve seen what you’ve seen and know what you know it’s just not an option to continue to support the suppressive group.
To Nora – Awesome write up. I admire your courage and wish you well. Your future is bright and you are free!
I haven’t been able to cross over publicly yet. However, I privately did when I wrote to Anderson Cooper after he did the “Scientology: A History of Violence” program to thank him for the piece. I relayed some of my own experiences in Scientology, including observations of fights and screaming I witnessed in the orgs. I know how you felt when you hovered over the “send” button. I felt the same way when I posted my letter.
Mke,
I think I found Julian Swartz:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom%C3%A1s_de_Torquemada
Superb write up Nora! It glistens so beautifully and clear in the sunshine, just as you do. Your clarity in showing appreciation for the gifts passed on to us by Ron, are as simple as they are effective. I myself had a great LFBD just reading, (and FEELING, BTW,) the sincerity with which you expressed yourself. And you’re so right on about David Miscavige too! Hopefully this announcement will get some penetration into the sheeple valence of those who need some spark to jolt them to their senses.
Welcome to the Independents
ML,Calvin.– Announcement on 12 May 2012 (Mothers’Day) on Marty’s blog
Julian Schwartz is the son of old-timers Louis Schwartz and the the late Gretchen Schwartz, both posted at the Flag office in the CLO building at PAC base. He’s been an MAA at AOLA for at least 10-15 years now.
I had brief dealings with him and he was okay. However, things are very black and white with him and he can’t think much in differences and similarities.
I had an 18 year old niece (at the time) who was taking antidepressants. This came up in a KR written by an auditor, although I had no attention on the subject. I was helping her out, being a terminal for her and we have a very good relationship. She is a Catholic, never was a Scientologist. Julian flat out told me that if she didn’t stop taking her meds, I cannot ever speak to her again. Whatever tech he thought he was applying, I have no idea. I have met people in the orgs who had seen psychiatrists or psychologists and had taken medication in their past. I guess if you’re paying into the giant sponge, it’s overlooked but if you’re not, well, nobody should talk to you; certainly not a Scientologist.
I completely ignored him and carried on. I knew of countles disconnections in families and had earlier vowed I would not subscribe to that practice.
Good for you Pepper. YOu demonstrated the definition of “Responsibility”….the nonrecognition and non interference etc. Anyone know that verbatim for us here?
Nora,
Thank you! You really came through on your own, a very well put Doubt condition.
Great to have you out here!
Welcome back into the sunshine Nora!
Great write up Nora. Well done on making the move. Courageous and smart.
Nora,
Congratulations! Just as you said…the more you looked and thought about it, the bigger
the blow down (paraphrase)…but I get it! Same happened for me: At first there’s this wave of
loss…of losing SO many dear friends. (I lost ALL of my 30 year friends and my husband of 27
Y E A R S, over night). Then you make the leap, as you have, and bingo…you
enter an entirely new world of true free “theta”, joy, friendships from ALL kinds of fantastic people.
““That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others.” <<< That was key for me waking up, and I think many others, too. Thankfully, as bad as "Dave" is….he's helped many of us actually SEE how destructive that organization has become, and he continues to do so, to this day!! Be well 🙂 Tory/Magoo
I hope you do realize though that LRH himself stopped believing in or following the Creed. You can just look at the list of Crimes and High Crimes in the ethics book and see how many different forms of communication a person can be found guilty of and then expelled as a suppressive person. Check out the 1983 bulletin in which Ron says you have to disconnect from a declared SP (stop communicating by ORDER even with family and loved ones) otherwise you yourself should be declared as giving aid and comfort to an SP.
So please let’s not pretend that LRH wanted anything but complete control over his parishioners thoughts and communication. Yes, his early work is beautiful and I apply his teachings every day of my life to good benefit. But when he slowly over a period of decades went insane, we as his loyal followers simply continued to buy everything he dished out as truth. And now you see the result. LRH built his church, could not control himself, and then sowed the seeds for its destruction.
“1983 bulletin”…..LRH was already bypassed by this point in time.
Hi Joe, yes, I’m in the process of sorting through all of that myself. I’m thinking that LRH developed some of that heavy ethics to handle genuine attacks on the church that were happening at that time and that now they’re being used against it’s own parishioners. I do get what you’re saying and it’s an area that I’m still trying to sort out for myself.
Nora, wonderful to hear that you are out of corporate Scientology and can now communicate to the rest of us. You will find many friends out here, people who are looking and sorting things out for themselves.
Your doubt formula shows some real thought and research went into it. Well done.
Regarding the disconnection policy of ’83 that is being discussed, it is not an LRH policy. Just google “Robert Vaughn Young Disconnection” for the full story. It truly is one of the nastiest control mechanisms ever dreamed up. But don’t forget that disconnection first appeared in the 60s and it was LRH that time.
If you think back about 40 years, you will remember me. I was Carla Bohn at the time. I often wonder about people I knew in Vancouver and later on in LA. I left the SO in ’91 and married a declared SP so have been pretty much incommunicado with anyone still in since then. I would love to hear from you and get caught up on mutual friends. I check ESMB almost daily. They have a PM system so can talk about non public stuff without everyone who is on the internet reading it. Someone posted your doubt formula over there so you already have your very own thread! Or you can email me at bluekookaburra@gmail.com
Cheers,
Carla
Loved your writeup Nora 🙂
+1 Plenty of F/N’s “out here” – I think it’ s the normal state. Also plenty of people starting all over, and actually getting their auditing and training after decades of nothing.
Nora,
VWD! Your (assumed husbands) face reminded me of my feelings some time ago when I received an LRH Quote …..(below)
A few years ago I was sent this LRH quote by Bridge Publications. I thought it was appropriate because my family was in the process of being dismantled by the MAA at ‘the friendliest place in the world’ . The MAA Jasmin Arellano was working with my daughter (in the SO) and my nephew Adam Daniells (Flag trained Class IX, OT V auditor and SO member) who were both at the time trying to move uplines into the RTC.
My observation at the time (Fall of 2006) was that Adam had been successful in getting my daughter to divorce her husband because he(her husband) was not qualified to go uplines and Jasmine was working with my wife and her sister (Adams Mom) to get both of our families to disconnect from their other non Scientologist sister and her family. So I sent this out at the time as a reference from LRH:
:
“There are people right here right now that still, maybe, are grieving to some degree about some incident like a marital separation of the loss of a child or something like this, that find that persistent with them, who are saying to themselves, ‘If I just could admit that I really did it.’ Or, you know ‘I really realized to a large degree that it’s my fault. (sigh)’ And it doesn’t go away. They’re trying to accept the responsibility. They’re trying to accept the blame for this incident and they didn’t do it! Somebody else did.
“Full responsibility contains the willingness to let somebody else be responsible, too.”
— L. Ron Hubbard
Excerpted from the lecture The Descent of Man delivered on 5 June 1955.
The situation today:
Adam Daniells and his Wife Mira have left the Sea Org to have a family and are doing so in LA. Adam has worked with his Mom Lori Daniells (former SO) and his Father Rod Daniells (Class VII, OT III, and former ASHO Power auditor and C/S) to continue the carnage. Adam has been able to get his Mom to third party her sister (my soon to be ex-wife) and my kids about the potential problems that would arise in their lives should they remain connected to me. They were able to work with Julian earlier in the year and come up with an SP declare on me. Each have also chosen to take a safe route and disconnect from me with the help of AOLA MAA Julian Schwartz even though the Church of Scientology has no policy on disconnection.
MY Crimes:
1)willing to speak out about things that should not be.
2)willing to observe data on the internet and elsewhere to find data about the sit.
3)willing to think for myself and refuse a direct order.
I would like to ask you Julian, Adam, Rod and Lori to review the LRH quote above and perhaps listen to the lecture again to see if you can work out a correct application for the tech. Take an an example from Nora and please think for yourselves today. A fresh breeze is about…..
Lori’s other sister Micki Dambacher and her family have shown a very high level of integrity and they refuse to abide by any sort of disconnection rule and refuse to disconnect from me whether I remain a part of the family or not. I want to thank Micki and Karl Dambacher and their kids Kip (and Kips wife Bree), John and Sara for remaining true to their values. I will always consider you a part of my family and you have helped me a lot through this process!
To Adam, Rod, Lori, Julian and Jasmin ………get your ethics in and a life!!!!!
By the way: Jasmin, I have all of the e-mail files that we sent back and forth over the years which describe your answers to my questions about what your were doing and why. It is really pretty funny reading and your boss Dave could be pretty pissed off about it I expect. Perhaps you should break the news to him first……
Coop — This Julian Swartz seems to show up on a lot of lines as being an instigator of human rights violations. Maybe he should be reported to all the “Humanitarians” the church is certifying so they can do something to put an end to the serial abuses?
Seriously, I am not familiar with this guy, but he keeps popping up as the front man who is carrying out the dictates of the gestapo….
He probably needs some attention. If anyone has information about inhumane/squirrel activities of Julian Swartz, please send them in here. He seems to be a bit of a menace to society.
Mike,
When I got into Scientology at SFO in 1975, Louis Schwartz was a reg and I became good friends with him. He was married to Maureen Schwartz at the time (Tech Sec) and I think she left the church ages ago. But to the point, I really liked Louis (he is a very friendly and compassionate guy) and I think Julian is his son although I have never met him. I have heard that Louis is now a shell of his former self and lives near Pac Base in an apartment where the aged SO staffers are kept. They apparently can still get around and can still do a bit of production but are on limited duty. This is second hand info.
My point is that Julian has grown up in the cult and is a classic cult product. DO NOT THINK FOR YOURSELF. Do what you are told to do because that is what LRH would do. Be unreasonable, be hard, be cold and be swift. The future of Scientology depends on it.
My wife Sheri is a very caring person and has a huge help flow (read button to be exploited). I have observed her many times before and after her trips to LA. She leaves cheerful (except when I have cautioned her about the reg cycles) and returns gaunt and stressed and very often confused. Julian is a common denominator to these observations.
But Jasmin Arellano at Flag produces an even darker result. And Jasmin lies straight up and does not miss a blink. She is one tough nut and I do have experience in dealing with her and I have observed the result she produces on my wife as well.
My viewpoint is that the MAA lineup at any org has been grooved in by upper management to the point they become OSA goons. Sheri’s sister Lori had MAA training while in the SO and she has become a real piece of work. She has a wonderful warm smile and has no problem being sweet and nice while she is deciding which rib to stick the dagger under. Meanwhile, since I got her into Scientology in 1982, she has not completed a life repair program or a course other than what she did as SO staff training for the EO post. Classic NCG. And now that her family is fully out but in good standing I wonder how much auditing she wants. Her son Adam is a Class IX, SHSBC grad and a C/S and he has not audited her. Her husband Rod is a Class VII Power auditor and C/S and he has not audited her. She remains in close contact with her sister Micki who is closely connected to me but of course keeps the data carefully hidden from Julian by keeping the attention on the big new SP in town (that would be me). She is also paying attention to whether or not her sister Sheri is seen having any contact with me (which she will not do for fear of being declared) and if so I’m sure gets the info to Julian via Adam but likely does not do so directly. And of course Julian laps it up as he has something juicy to sink his teeth into because Sheri has a program to do at AOLA and she will be getting a divorce so there are likely some monetary scraps to pick over. I guess I better close off the rant. Sorry to hijack the thread….I’m done now!
Google Julian:
https://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=1ce580f5ec6c3915&psj=1&q=julian+Swartz+scientology
Indie 8Million, I went to the link you gave about Julian Schwartz and read the letters back and forth and got an eye full of how the church “investigates” someone. Boy it just turned my blood cold. I recognized how they did it to me. When reports of my own somewhat disaffected statements came to them by other Scns who named me to get the heat off of them and save their own necks, some of my Scn friends were surrepticiously approached and asked what I’d said to them and were told that I was under investigation just like these letters back and forth do. Now I got the mass on the whole process that was used against me. It is Nazi Gestapo all over again and turns my stomach. The next gradient really will be al la Torquemada and the Grand Inquisition. Thank you for this link.
Jane – I’m so sorry you were the victim of this vicious whispering campaign.
That is exactly what it is. “She is under investigation” has come to be redefined as, “She is almost declared.”
I kid you not. That’s what one of the Facebook Police said to me. “That person is in trouble because they won’t unfriend someone who is “almost declared.” I asked what was meant by “almost declared”. “How can a person be almost declared? They either are or they’re not? “Well,” the answer came back to me, “look at all those terrible things they said in the press!! All of those are suppressive acts!” so, their logic went, they were going to be declared anyway. No investigating why they said them, if they were true, none of that.
Monkey see, monkey do. What OSA is doing, their little monkeys are doing it too.
It’s fascinating to me that DM will take ANY Scientology reference and reverse it to his manipulative purposes. Hopefully this true LRH data will help blow a little charge. Again, so sorry you got done that way. You don’t deserve it, theta patata. http://www.scientologycourses.org/courses-view/public-relations/step/handling-rumors-and-whispering-campaigns.html
Thank you for your kind words and reference, Indie8Million. I agree with what you wrote and have experienced the FB police too. Ron wrote that if it isn’t written it isn’t true. He wrote how to defeat verbal tech checklist and many other things on the subject. But in the times of DM, everything is verbal and references are not used unless as a last resort. Instead of a written SP Declare, you get a whispering campaign which has the same effect, to make people disconnect from you and ruin your reputation. But by not having anything in writing, the victim of this vicious covert attack cannot fight it point by point cuz nothing is in writing. And by not putting anything in writing, no one can sue the church for libel and slander. There is a method to DM’s madness and black dianetics and twisting of LRH’s tech.
Jane Doe – +1 and YW.
Ditto on all you said. Also, it all ends up in one Suppressive generality against which one can not fight back.
Not only does DM get the product of everyone disconnecting from someone, there is also the potential product of the spun thetan by wrong indications and nearly impossible to correct out lists.
Orchestrated? You bet. Just like 76 trombones.
Good thing we have 90% of the LRH trained auditors out here in the Indie field. Because of that, it will all get straightened out.
But oh. So evil. Ron Sr.; was little Davey cruel to animals too?
Coop, I’m very sorry for what you have been through. Let the healing begin in the Independent world.
Good rant, Cooper, you say a lot and I appreciate all of it.
On your point about OSA Goons, I have to concur. My own experience is that you sign for a course, the information goes up-lines. A day or so later, you’re called in to be asked specific questions. You answer, the info goes up-lines. A day or so later, you’re called in for a handling. The results go up-lines and a day or so later, you have more questions to answer and handlings to do. You do those, the info goes up-lines, and a day or so later you’re called back in,… etc etc etc. From the day I walked into the org, fully paid up to start the Purif, it took them SIX WEEKS to OK me. I was waiting full-time every day to start, but my folder had to be sent away each day for remote handling. In all that time, I observed only one person to do a Purif. The Purif is the lowest-level entry-point for the public. You start there. Anybody walking in off the street would do that first. Yup, I can confirm from first-hand experience that if you’re in good standing (as far as you know) it’ll take OSA SIX WEEKS to let you start. That delay completely crashed my work schedule, as I’d only allowed for a max of 4 weeks to do the Purif (I’ve done two before).
Not only that, but there was absolutely no explanation for the delay, no R-factor, nothing. They just talk at you.
When the final OK came, I told them to keep the money, I wasn’t interested anymore (I was suicidal, but I didn’t tell them that).
Paid, scheduled, STOP. OSA pulls the strings.
Are you reading this, OSA UK? Of course you are, you saps. For all you know, you might be being controlled by a sleep-deprived 15-year old in Hemet. You lost a 40-year devoted, ex-staff, ex-SO, trusting member with unblemished ethics, and gained an enemy.
Mike – to address your request and to give some correction to Coop’s data:
Coop, I don’t think that Louis is Julian’s father. If I’m not mistaken, I believe the spelling of his name is Swartz, not Schwartz. Julian’s mom’s name is Michelle (I don’t recall her current last name) and she is a long-time Scientologist. Just a hunch but, knowing how hard-core LRH she is, she might be under the radar in her thoughts but won’t come out because of family, and having Julian as her son. That last part is my conjecture NOT based on anything she has said, except that she is very pro LRH and won’t give up her old OEC’s etc.
Mike – Julian is a piece of work. 6’5″ and solid as Lurch from the old Addam’ s Family show. He is severely out of comm in his dealings with people (solid), lumbers around the AO with a non-flow expression on his face (nothing out-nothing in) and when I have attempted to say hello to him over the course of 3 years, he has only responded once. I was actually running it as a process to see how long it would take him to respond.
The only time I’ve seen him actually smile was one day at AO when they had the window’s papered up like Anonymous was outside but no protesters were out. Instead, later, there was someone in the org, dressed in military camouflage, making himself at home, looking very comfortable in the org, rather than a soldier on duty. My perception was that he was there, hatting the HCO personnel on some sort of security procedure, hence, the papered windows. This is only a perceptic guess on my part but ,I feel, a pretty darn good one.
I tried to see him many times regarding a couple of very suppressive individuals in the org but he wouldn’t even take the time to see me or speak to me about it.
When DM is at the Pac Base, Julian is on guard detail.
This one must have been at Sea Org Day. There’s old Julian gettin’ as wild and crazy as Julian can get. Any C/Ss out there want to take a crack at that case? 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phLFkIGE1Us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCc-RWIp7XU
Here’s video that I was saying was the Sea Org Day one. Look at Julian go!
Hey, Sea Org Day is coming up again on the 12th or the 14th. Anybody wanna get some video of the SO guys gettin’ down this year? Maybe Julian will do this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phLFkIGE1Us
Another Julian bit.
“But she’s also heard from friends in Scientology who tell her that they’ve been ordered to “disconnect” from her immediately. That campaign is being orchestrated by a church “ethics” employee at the Advanced Organization of Los Angeles (AOLA) on behalf of the church’s Office of Special Affairs, Scientology’s intelligence division. The employee, Julian Swartz, is ordering people to cut off all ties with Remini. (In 2011, at his website, former top church official Marty Rathbun revealed documents in a previous OSA operation run by Swartz to disrupt relationships of a Scientologist who was targeted after she asked questions about fundraising and disconnection.) Our sources inside the church tell us that Swartz is calling people down for interrogations about their connections to Remini and what she has said about Miscavige.”
http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/14/leah-remini-blowback-kirstie-alley-calls-for-scientology-celeb-strategy-session/
Coop,
If I were in their shoes, your “fresh breeze….” should be of concern.
I see some ominous Thunder clouds ahead…..
Love your write up! Thanks for posting.
Very well done!!
Good for you Nora!! Welcome to total freedom to think and speak for yourself. Awesome write up!!
Hi Nora, that was a good read and I agree, ARC, Forrest
Forrest Cole?
Brilliant Nora!
Amazing write up! What an incredible display of courage and integrity! LRH would be very proud of you!
Thank you all so much for your responses. When I sent this write-up in to my local org my finger literally hovered above the ‘send’ button while all and sundry physical and mental manifestations kicked in! When I hit the button everything became calm and I felt such an enormous sense of relief. I also felt that things started to move and shift quickly – something that feels a little more like native state than the rigid controls I had been agreeing to for so many years!
Sweet!!
Very refreshing to read another series of thoughts and discoveries sooooo similar to my own, but written a heck of a lot better! If you Look you can’t help but see these exact things. Takes some determination and confront, which you described. To paraphrase LRH, he said “All I’m trying to teach you to do it LOOK.” I think your formula here truly invites others to look also, and I’m glad you mentioned the relief and release you experienced while doing so. All of them still stuck in there could use that relief! I hope this moves them closer to starting their own examination of the RCS. Thank you for this and Welcome!
Nora, very true words and wonderful expressed sentiment. Welcome, and thanks for the courage to speak up.
Hi Nora!
From my own personal experience, I can assure you that many people who read your doubt formula will keep silent for a while, but will secretly wish they could muster the courage to publish their own.
You said, “But I have come to realize that if the cleared planet that we all so dearly would love to see would be this world that Miscavige is creating then it is not worth fighting for. It is not Scientology.”
It takes an honest confront of evil to face up to what miscavige is actually creating. That would be a pass on your TR 0 bullbait.
See you soon,
Les
Thanks for having the courage to say what is real to you Nora!!
Welcome!!
Sorry, Tickety Boo means going along on auto, doing the same thing and doing nothing else.
Oh.
Nora, what you have written is so very gentle, so strikingly clear and so obviously and touchingly sincere. People like you are heroes to me.
Hi Nora.
Can you post e-addy?
Hi Formost, My email address is rattlesnaik@hotmail.com
Cheers!
TIckety boo means doing nothing, it is a British word.
Ah!
Very well done, Nora!
Beautifully written letter. Now you can really breathe the fresh air and practice Scientology as it’s meant to be.
Dear Nora,
Very well written. Clear, concise, to the point and crux of the matter.
Congratulations.
Very well written, clear and concise and TRUE. Thank you! Every person who steps out from under the influence of the Dark Lord, the Close Of Business RTC, weakens his strength. I find it strange that DM is so similar to Voldemort in the Harry Potter books. Did you know that at the height of their popularity RTC banned SO members from reading them? Close Of Business RTC has great power that could be used for good but instead using he is using it to punish and destroy. And his power depends completely on his supporters. To many parallels I guess. As more and more of his supporters turn away, he becomes weaker and weaker. So thank you Nora for withdrawing your power. David Miscavige just shrunk a little more. (hard to imagine I know, given his existing size). People think that “just me can’t make a difference” but that is not true. Every person who stands up and says “NO!” to the bullshit pulls DM down another notch. 5 Years ago the man was invincible. Now he is fighting for his life. I bet another few hundred Indies and it would be all over for him.
Nora, thank you for your write up; it is very clear, factual and to the point. We, and many others, do wish you the best and we are here to share good moments. You are right, Scientology is being used and optimum changes are occurring in peoples’ lives. Do well.
Fabulous Nora !
Hi Nora;
You speak wise!!! Welcome to sanity and having fun once again in your life. The very best for your future.
Nora, This is a spot on write-up. Congratulations and I hope you have great success in starting your new game of being an Independent Scientologist.
What an excellent read. Well done Nora for being true to yourself and not remaining with those who blindly follow the Church of D.M.
+1
+1 also
Excellent write-up, great stuff, Nora!
AMEN! Couldn’t have said it better myself.
GREAT LETTER NORA! and welcome to the land of The Free Scientologist!
Thank you! I am so happy to be here!
Very well written. I have only one stylistic critique: “tickety-boo”!?
haha! You know, the sound that a little automaticity makes when it chugs along…tickety-boo,
tickety-boo, tickety-boo. Even an automaticity can make a cute sound…but watch out!:)
Tickety-boo and boffo too!
Wow, Nina, what a beautiful and clear write-up. Thank you for sharing it.
Thank you. And thank you for reading it!
Wow Nina! This is one of the most beautiful coming out stories I have ever read! Your process parallels my own in some ways. I”m very glad you followed it through to the end and that you are very happy you acted on your knowingness. The tech is alive and well in the Indie field and awaits you! Welcome! And great picture of you two too!