It’s SaTerraDay again…
Oh Bless Me Father, For I have Sinned
Catholicism has nothing on Scientology when it comes to sin. When it comes to crime, confession, and contrition, Scientology kicks ass.
On one hand, Scientology preaches that man is basically good. On the other, church members commit overts like springtime rabbits popping out bunnies on a wet year. If a Scientologist has any chance at salvation, he will confess his sins, bend over, and take his medicine.
One thing I can say with certainty about Scientologists: they’re never done sinning and confessing. It’s a certainty that by the time a parishioner picks up the cans for his next session, he’ll have another overt or two he needs to “get off.”
And unlike most other religions, L. Ron Hubbard codified his church’s sins, dividing them into three categories: misdemeanors, crimes, and high crimes. The greatest sin: speaking out against LRH or the church. Questioning the tech or policy is almost as subversive.
Clean Hands Make a Happy Life
LRH wrote that “clean hands make a happy life” and that if man had any chance at salvation, he needed to go heavy on the spiritual Purell and cough up all his overts and withholds. Not to worry. Modern Scientology has taken the confessional booth to new heights. At every step, level, and rung on the way to cause over the universe, Scientologists are asked to come clean.
The simplest form of confession has members write down their sins on a piece of paper and turn them into to an Ethics Officer (EO) or Master at Arms (MAA). Typically, these write-ups are done because something is not right in a parishioner’s life and he’s been assigned a lower condition.
If a PC’s needle isn’t “floating” at the beginning of an auditing session, auditors are required to ask for overts or withholds. Later on, if the session isn’t going well, the auditor will run a “correction list” which includes, once again, asking his PC if he has any overts and withholds. All auditors have been taught that undisclosed sins prevent case gain. Tracking down all of these sins can take hours. And of course, cost thousands of dollars.
Sec Checking (security checking) is basically an interrogation technique conducted by the Department of Ethics to ferret-out “reasons” why someone might not qualify for something—like joining staff, receiving auditing, leaving the church, or staying connected to a loved one. Parishioners are sec-checked if they’ve been bad, sick, or have been arguing with their spouse. They are sec-checked if they’re not doing well on course or in auditing. Any person’s life can set straight with sec-checking.
Staff are routinely sec-checked. They’re sec checked when their stats are down. They’re sec checked when they lock lips with someone they’re not supposed to. They’re sec-checked at the whim of over-zealous seniors.
A decade or so before he died, LRH created the False Purpose Rundown (FPRD) in which people were asked to give up their sins via dozens of long lists of potential overts and withholds covering all spheres of life.
If you thought OTs were immune from the siren call of sin…think again. Luckily for these high level lawbreakers, Flag and the Freewinds have MAAs standing by to hear their declarations of malfeasance. People on OT 7 are required to fly back to Flag every six months to confess the sins they’ve accumulated since their last visit and to “make sure they’re doing okay.” The only difference between fessing up at Flag and coming clean at a local mission is that it costs twice as much at Flag.
Once Again…Control
The concept of sin and confession has been used by churches to control their members since Ned the Neanderthal donned a high-collared mammoth robe and convinced his mates that God told him the only way to be saved—life was hard in those days—was to confess. To Ned. That the only way to go free and be truly happy was to tell Ned what they’d done. Conveniently, God granted Ned the power—apparently the two were related—to absolve his fellow cave-dwellers of their sins and save their wretched souls—not only was life hard in those days, but souls were wretched and susceptible to eternal damnation.
Judeo/Christian religions have their priests and rabbis. Scientology has their EOs and MAAs—who’ve been entrusted with restoring balance to people’s lives and making them whole again. Unfortunately, trips to Ethics usually aren’t so morally restorative.
Not only are these Scientology “clergy” the authority for all sin, they’re in charge of atonement and penance. In LRH’s mind, a dozen Hail Mary’s didn’t “make up for the damage done.” Instead, an Ethics “terminals” typically assign programs for the sinner. These programs include working one’s way up from lower conditions, often demanding that the sinner petition other church members to allow them to “rejoin the group they were pretending to be a part of.” Doing a course on the “ups and downs,” in life is often assigned. These days, large donations to the IAS and the local “ideal org” project is part of the expected amends.
Why?
I’m no scholar—Biblical or otherwise—but from what I remember, we were taught here in the West that sin had to do with Adam and Eve chomping on an apple from the “tree of knowledge of good and evil.” I think this happened about the same time I won that all-expenses-paid, one way ticket to Teegeeack. I’m a little hazy on the details.
Per LRH, sinning has nothing to do with forbidden fruit but is the result of MU’s (misunderstood words). I’m not sure why we felt it was okay to commit overts on things we didn’t understand, but that’s what LRH taught. I would think, as powerful, god-like thetans we would have known better.
Last Words
Life went downhill after we committed our first sin. Once we “borrowed” Ned’s favorite rock and bonked his wife, living got rough.
Goals and purposes got twisted and discarded. Couples fought and divorced. Some of us even questioned the word of Ned.
Committing that first sin was the golden ticket to the mother of all rabbit holes. There was no bigger dwindling spiral than the one we fell into when we swiped our first candy bar at the cosmic checkout counter quadrillions of years ago.
Still not Declared,
Terra Cognita
Read a article on The Onion website that Leah returned to Scientology Dec.2 did you see it?
It was hilarious. Oh the Onion, sarcasm in print form. Best #fakenews on the web. 🙂
The “Onion” is a SATIRE website . . .
Dave F.
I was sec-checked at age 13 by student auditors. Probably had 10 different auditors, and it dragged on for months. I lied through my teeth. It was torture. It was probably my step-mother who thought this was a good idea. She was convinced that i was stupid and out- ethics. Hadn’t even touched drugs at that point, just spent my free-time at the (public) library. Loved to read.
My home life was abusive and I did anything I could to get away. I never said anything to the Church as I knew they wouldn’t help me. I did end up going to the police when I was 18. No regrets.
That sec-check was the last thing in the Church that I ever did. I’m really happy about that. They ain’t got shit on me!
Your comment about spending time in the library has captured my interest. Over and over again I learn from Mike, Leah, et.al. that Scientology traps people who have limited learning, but are interested in philosophy, science, psychology, and self improvement methods.
1 Are you an exception to this “profile”, with your self learning? Did you ever meet Scientology people who outside of Scientology had acquired a strong, working grasp of these subjects, but joined anyway?
We often judge what is true by comparing it to what we already know about a subject. The ancients established the “liberal arts” such as philosophy/critical thinking, and subjects that increased self awareness and self autonomy. The “liberal” meant that slaves were never to be taught these things. A slave could be a great physician or engineer, but must never think for themself. LRH, by these historical standards, was one of the many evil people in history who founded slave cults.
2 I was being treated in a neurological ward, where they attached a number of electrodes that monitored what the “audit machine” did, and additional medical parameters. This was a real hospital. I quickly learned how to control the readouts at will. Has anyone heard about a Scientologist who could do this with the audit machine? What did they do to them?
Thank you, and thanks to anyone who read my rather long comment.
Sec checks and confessing overts. Good god.
Why would anyone ever want to willingly hang the extremely burdensome millstone of scientology around one’s neck. To lug that soul-destroying weight around all day, every day is just absurd to the nth degree.
Any lurkers, please agree, wouldn’t it be liberating and refreshing to just toss that immense burden off your shoulders once and for all? This is killing you. Please take your precious life back.
Hedonists, are worse than COS. At least COS, will marginally pay homage to diety. This blog is turning ‘blacker’…….and ‘grayer’, every single day. Californication, is showing. Hedonism is all about ‘worm food.’ This is what your afterlife looks like.
Do Hedonists beat you half to death, make you scrub toilets with a toothbrush or your tongue, and take all your money to line their own pockets ? CoS does all of that & MORE !
Dave F.
Pretty close but I don’t think was an apple but dose not really matter but they could eat anything But Not from that tree & had they done what was told life would’ve been so different No Death no pain,ect.
Then the Bible says if you tell God whatever wrong U’ve done and mean it he will cast that away to the ends of the world and it’s forgiven never to deal with again & none of that stuff you speak to him & he’ll keep tract of it to throw at you again & again he’s a Loving God & we are all his children and just like we Love our kids even when they mess up we still love them & should,when I hear of any “church” keeping records of making mistakes and seeing were Not perfect due to Adam & Eve I can’t imagine telling whoever stuff I did as a Teen keeping tract of any little thing for what reason all that comes to My Mind is Blackmail and kinda reminds me of FBI & Hoover how he liked getting Info on all sorts of ppl blaming them for all sorts of stuff yet wonder if he was home dressed in his mom’s clothes really dragging ppl under yet he had his own dirty secrets yet why dose a “church” need to do that to anyone it should be Illegal ppl grow learn well should anyway but where’s the Joy are they happy I can’t see it afraid ? will blame them & off to audit,more money to pay…
Luv yah Mike & Family & Crew your doing a good job…
The timing of Tony’s post with Sunny Pereira and Mark Plummer with wisdom thrown in by Robyn Capella on Ron’s Past Lives sins entrapment was fodder for thought. Then this morning Terra brings more on the same topic. I love the confluence of many minds thinking about similar things.
I will say that when I got in I quite drugs, not very hardcore stuff and that made a difference in my life. Then I tightened up my self chosen boundaries and that was helpful. But then the Ethics officer and KR’s started to impinging a new more squeaky clean demand for perfection. I didn’t notice that the standard was unattainable, I just thought I was bad.
How quickly those early gains were drowned by manipulative judgement. I was eighteen when I got in. I am so pissed on behalf of my young self. If I’d been my mom and known what I know now, I’d have moved heaven and earth to prevent that dive into unattainable moral uprightness. Thanks for the great comments.
Well said, Clearly not clear.
When I moved to this area so many decades ago, we lived near a lovely, peaceful local Catholic Cemetery. A neighbor I had become friendly with had several members of her family buried there, & on occasion we’d walk over for her to place flowers on their graves.
I was drawn to one particular area of the cemetery that seemingly was “set apart” from the rest of it. The weeds & shrubs were overgrown, & very poorly kept. I asked my friend “what gives, why is this area apart from the rest of the cemetery & not tended to”. My friend replied: “Oh, those are the graves of the suicides…….they can’t be buried in sanctified ground”.
I was horrified….no one seemed to care about these poor dead souls that for whatever reason, ended their own tormented lives, & even after death by their own hand punished to being left to lay in an area of the cemetery apart from the rest, as if they didn’t matter. I could not bear the thought of it.
Ten days later, I got a few people together (some non Catholics) & we went to that cemetery & CLEARED all the weeds & over growth….straightened some of the wrought Iron grave markers & filled in the holes under some of the sinking grave markers.
The dead should rest in Peace & be honored……not left to be ignored & forgotten due to what had been a church policy on suicide.
That was a very touching story , Ballet Lady. Thanks for sharing it.
Here is a little more information on the Catholic Church’s previous stance on suicide & receiving the “Catholic Burial Rite” BEFORE 1983
https://classroom.synonym.com/funerals-due-to-suicide-the-roman-catholic-church-12085229.html
Which I assure you was not being practiced up to 1983, and is one of the reasons why they changed the practice. Hence 1800’s early 1900’s
The gave site markers were hard to read….what could be read stated dates of death appeared to be in the 1940’s, 1950’s, & early 1960’s… most markers were not granite but simple black crosses made of iron that was rusted….there were graves that were unmarked as well but could be discerned by ground depressions. This was the era of the coal industry……most of the men in the area were underpaid coal miners, the older folks stories talk of heavy alcohol abuse & the expected very painful lung damage from inhaling coal dust. This is a large cemetery & this burial area was as noted set apart from the other burials……basically left to ruin & unattended. I wondered if family ever visited, but either family members were dead themselves or embarrassed by the suicide of their family member & did not visit. All too sad.
When I started OT VII in 1986, I was required to return to Flag every six months. It was living hell because Flag staff tried every trick in the book to keep me from leaving. They did not care if you were late for work. They had me hung up on a situation where I scratched my brother’s record with a needle before digital sound. When I talked to my brother about it later, he could not believe that I would bring up such a minor point. The problem with Scientology sin is that it gets down to minor stupid actions. I think this is why Hubbard had nothing good to say about Jesus. As a Catholic, I went to confession and my sins were forgiven. Scientology tries to make a permanent record of your sins. So happy to be out.
$cientology….
A very precise science of BLACKMAIL and EXTORTION….
It is done very covertly!
Scientology uses human character defects and human frailties
And exploits them for a profit
Whilst hiding behind a “non-profit” status…and it’s criminal activities protected by the religious cloak!
Time to yank that tax exempt status!
Scientology, that is L Ron Hubbard, used his ethics tech, like confessionals, to stop people inside his cult from discovering who he really was. He took a run at enslaving mankind and failed. Thank God.
Mike,
Were you deceived because you believed a lie or because you rejected the truth?
We ALMOST had a Scientologist SENATOR . . . We “dodged a bullet”, in 2016 !
https://www.thedailybeast.com/scientology-could-get-its-own-senator
Dave F.
The “Real World” of Scientology . . .
https://davefagen.wordpress.com/jeff-hawkins/
https://davefagen.wordpress.com/steve-hall/
https://davefagen.wordpress.com/amy-scobee/
https://davefagen.wordpress.com/don-jason/
https://davefagen.wordpress.com/marty-rathbun/
https://davefagen.wordpress.com/debbie-cook/
I have “mixed opinions” about Marty Rathbun, who “zig-zags” on Scientology and is something of a “loose cannon” . . . Not sure he can be “trusted” in the “Anti-Scientology community”, anymore . . . HOWEVER, I do believe the accounts of violence he gave in the link above.
Dave F.
Interesting, Dave F, whoever you are (not me). Although I am the author of the above links, I got the information from several blogs that were popular at the time.
Hi, Dave Fagen !
I found your blog to be fascinating ( read the entire thing ) . . . Glad to see you here on Mike’s Blog !
Best Wishes !
Dave F.
( the “other” Dave F. – LOL )
I won’t be original if I say that like almost everyone here I can easily make e-meter to show what they want during sec-checks. Especially it was fun to do in my last sec-check this summer when I already was reading this blog for several years, read and watched going clear, Scientology and the aftermath, blown for good and etc.
My sec-checker was a 19 years old girl, slim and pale. No honey I have nothing to do with squirrels and enemies of scn, look at your little con-machine it never lies.
Terra is correct with the heavy emphasis scientology places on sin, many of my auditing sessions never progressed beyond running the over/withhold part of the rudiments as there was always a long list of things that came up. The other annoyance was going to a higher level organization eg the ship, in addition to all the other impediments to doing anything fun there was the added indignity of having to do an A-J check as soon as you arrived, just reading over the questions for it brings back unpleasant memories.
Most people may fail to see the irony here: if there was “a long list of things that came up”, then obviously these were reading on the e-meter and thus you had some sort of mental charge on them, whatever the “long list” was composed of. You can hardly blame Scientology for your “long list” of overts which you caused and which is your charge and the simple fact that an e-meter and an auditor has detected them.
Seriously? The meter “detected” them? Is that like the meter “detecting” real dates on the date-locate drill in the course room?
Here’s my understanding: To start with, there’s no claim that the dates on a drill are “real” in any other way than the fact that those are the dates the coach has chosen – which then exist as thoughts in the coach’s mind. And the reason those particular dates/thoughts now read on the meter is that they have the mental energy (intention) the coach invested in them.
So with that logic you admit that all the meter registers is what a person thinks. So if he thinks “I dont like being asked this question” or “I thought about my birthday 3 years ago” that could well be the “thought” — not as you asserted that it means withholds…
I wasn’t actually implying anything about withholds in the context of a drill. However, it’s true that in session you can get protest reads or false reads, but there is tech to determine each – with the result that a pc is not going to be forced, or feel forced, to give answers that aren’t there. This has been my experience on various flows.
That said, I’ve seen comments here and elsewhere where people say they were forced to make up answers. If that was the case, it would have been gross out-tech – and/or it was based on some other agenda than the original purpose of auditing and even sec checks.
NO, I didn’t say you were “implying anything about withholds in the context of a drill.”
Just to remind you what you actually said:
Most people may fail to see the irony here: if there was “a long list of things that came up”, then obviously these were reading on the e-meter and thus you had some sort of mental charge on them, whatever the “long list” was composed of. You can hardly blame Scientology for your “long list” of overts which you caused and which is your charge and the simple fact that an e-meter and an auditor has detected them.
You said that an e-meter and an auditor detected the long list of overts.
I said “like the meter detects a “date” on the date-locate drill.
You responded that it does so because there is some mental charge associated with the thought about the date.
You have no idea what that “mental charge” is. It could be ANYTHING at all.
That was my point.
Okay, I see what happened. That wasn’t my comment you quoted; it was Foolproof’s. I was simply responding to your reply to him about meter reads on the dating drill.
The main thing I was saying is that the meter reads on thoughts and that even though there are times when a pc will protest being given a supposedly reading item which was actually a false read, it can be sorted out – primarily on the basis that if an item reads falsely, the needle will F/N when that is indicated, and a true read will read again as a duplicate read when rechecked by the auditor. I don’t think anybody can call this mere coincidence, either, since it has happened just that way time and time again.
The meter and what reads mean is totally false. Once when I was 16 I was given tailored a sec check and for some psycho reason (T/S’s put in wrong folder?) there was a question about being an international arms dealer (remember I’m 16 at the time) which “read”. Took two more intensives before the C/S (class XII LRH TRAINED) finally believed me rather than the emeter.
No, as Marildi implies above, you just had a false read. Did you start early then at 14 with the arms dealing though? (Joking Wynski, well, sort of – haha!)
BEcause the e-meter is a subject I find very interesting at this point, let me ask you for your understanding of what a “false” read is?
Is this something that reads on something OTHER than what the auditor/e-meter thinks it is reading on?
How does the theory of this work? The meter supposedly reads below the conscious level of the pc. Then is it making a mistake getting that read? Does the mechanism of the mind that causes reads to occur on the meter not always work?
Literally curious as to how some of these questions that I never thought (dared?) to ask in all those years get answered. Even if had raised these questions, I would have been told to find my MU or eventually have been routed to ethics, so this is an opportunity to get an explanation from someone who clearly still holds the e-meter and auditor as an infallible mechanism (providing it is “standardly” done).
Mike: “Does the mechanism of the mind that causes reads to occur on the meter not always work?”
Besides the fact that auditors can misread the meter by calling an instant or latent read as instant when it isn’t, the second sentence in the following quote is probably the best reference for that question:
“Pcs also think about other things while being asked questions and these random personal restimulations also read before and after an instant read and are ignored. Very rarely, a pc’s thinks react exactly at the end of a major thought and so confuse the issue, but this is rare.”
(HCOB 25 MAY 1962 E-METER INSTANT READS)
OK, thanks for that.
So, a pc thinking about something else can control the reaction of the E-meter.
While this is all presented as an exact science, there are certainly a lot of variables and apparently contradictory concepts.
And just so you know, I DO think there is some measurable energy that a person generates, though that terminology is perhaps inaccurate. I feel emotion can be tangible.
But I no longer agree with the dogmatic assertions about the e-meter and auditing and that it has an answer to everything and an answer for everything — if it doesn’t work it’s the auditor’s TR’s or it’s not an instant read or it’s a false read or a protest read or, or, or… I think there are things NOT known and explained by Hubbard and the biggest thing wrong with it is the fundamentalist view that his tech has the answer for EVERYTHING.
So, a pc thinking about something else can control the reaction of the E-meter.
A pc might be able to produce prior or latent reads but not an instant read, which almost invariably comes about as a reaction to a thought voiced by the auditor that matches (energy wise) a thought in the pc’s own memory banks. And there aren’t really that many variables, or seemingly contradictory concepts to do with metering.
“And just so you know, I DO think there is some measurable energy that a person generates, though that terminology is perhaps inaccurate. I feel emotion can be tangible.”
Many others in the fields of psychology and spirituality have now concluded the same. Kirlian photography even provides physical/objective evidence that shows changes of emotion create changes in the energy around the body.
“But I no longer agree with the dogmatic assertions about the e-meter and auditing and that it has an answer to everything and an answer for everything — if it doesn’t work it’s the auditor’s TR’s or it’s not an instant read or it’s a false read or a protest read or, or, or… ”
The fact is that with a well trained auditor, these things don’t occur very often and are easily handled.
“I think there are things NOT known and explained by Hubbard and the biggest thing wrong with it is the fundamentalist view that his tech has the answer for EVERYTHING.”
I very much agree with that. But one thing I give Hubbard great credit for is his discoveries about e-meter reads and the precision, speed and efficiency those discoveries give to auditing/counseling. People like to point out that he wasn’t the one to invent the meter, but it was his discoveries of how the meter can be used as a precision tool that are the real breakthroughs.
Oops. The first sentence in my comment was yours and should have been in quotes.
Foolproof, then why couldn’t highly trained (FAR more highly trained than you BTW) tell that it was a false read? Why did it end with only me refusing to go on with the nonsense?
Wynski-Khashoggi, (haha – sorry but the idea has tickled me) – at the first or early sign of protest from you they should have checked for a false read. I don’t know why they didn’t check. I don’t know what year this occurred for you but perhaps Hubbard created the false read tech after your case – such things do happen. Old Herbie Parkhouse told me once about the creation and first time the Green Form was ever used (Herb was the auditor) which was to solve a case at St. Hill which Herb did with a list of questions created by Hubbard, so all these things have a first and original time.
The auditor DID check for false read the first time I said anything (a moment after the auditor said it “read”.)
The auditor and C/S performed perfectly as per Hubbtard’s training.
In short. The meter (several of them) was NOT registering what Hubbtard said it was. In short, Hubbtard was wrong about what the meter does
I can see that your brainwashing has blocked your ability to use logic.
Wynski,
You said, ” In short, Hubbtard was wrong about what the meter does . . .”
END QUOTE :
Let’s get even “shorter” and say, ” Hubbard was WRONG about EVERYTHING ! ”
Dave F.
Funny but me and all my peers had no trouble with the Date/Locate drill. I believe Miscavige or someone on his orders messed it up in 1996 so that no one could pass it.
Mike, if you had been a good Scientologist you and a few other high Execs from Int Base should have made a coup d’etat and “arrested” Miscavige before all this had happened. I’m sort of joking as I know that DM had tied himself in with lawyers etc. and such was virtually impossible, but maybe there was a way back then? But was there? And did it never occur to anyone, yourself included?
I also don’t get why you sometimes feel a need to negate what I have said by interjecting something that isn’t really related – what I have said is straightforward and can’t really be argued against logically.
I didnt say there was something wrong with the date locate drill or that you or anyone else could not do it?
I said it proves that nobody really has any idea what the meter “reads” on as on that drill it “reads” on completely insignificant and made up dates. What IS it reading on in your mind?
As for the second half of your comment, did it occur to you to “arrest” Miscavige? Did you ever even reported anything to law enforcement?
Date/Locate – ok – I read that that the D/L drill had become almost unpassable – so I misread your intent on that.
What it is reading on is covered quite adequately in the books on the e-meter. Do we have get into that?
As to me arresting Miscavige, I wasn’t being (that) accusatory. I didn’t work next to him or had any dealings with him, whereas you and others at Int Base did. As I said I believe there were reasons why you couldn’t anyway but I wanted to glean if you or others had ever thought of this and indeed if it actually was ever possible? I wasn’t being (that) critical of you here.
Here is an INDISPUTABLE scientific fact about the emeter. When one uses solo set up, the electricity ONLY flows through that one hand. It doesn’t flow anywhere else. It olny flows across the surface of the skin also. So unless you think your thoughts are in the upper dermis it isn’t reading thoughts but something else.
Nope! It is measuring the resistance and fluctuations thereof, between the two terminals, with the body (influenced by the thoughts of the thetan) adding or subtracting from that resistance thus giving various reads. You didn’t really think that anyone would believe your marvellous new theory and throw away their Quantums did you? Sometimes Wynski you are like a drowning man clutching at straws and this was a straw that was already broken.
You can hardly blame Scientology for your “long list” of overts which you caused
Scientology empathy in action. Everyone feel the love of the church and its parishioners.
There was no sense of “make wrong” at all from and by my statement, unlike yours and the original comment. I always find it amazing here that I am accused of something by somebody doing exactly that which I am being accused of.
>Catholicism has nothing on Scientology when it comes to sin
Indeed! $cientology monetizes sin; $cientology – it’s all about the money! Nothing else matters to the criminal cult.
The Catholic Church continues to enforce its own doctrines on others with its continuing and usually successful attempts to block family planning and birth control to third world countries. Women continue to suffer raising large families in poverty.
Good point, Richard.
The Catholic Church enforces nothing.
As evidenced by Richard’s inability to answer my simple questions bixntram.
They are one of the world’s oldest and most professional guilt makers.
Richard, in which 3rd world countries are contraceptives illegal?
He did not say illegal. He said block, as in block access.
Here’s a weird example for you. you can google others, esp., on condoms and the spread of HIV.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/12/509462732/in-majority-catholic-philippines-duterte-orders-better-access-to-birth-control
The catholic church didn’t set prices for birth control gtsix. AND, it hasn’t taken them out of stores. So, WHERE and EXACTLY how did the catholic church block access?
what that link shows is the Pres of the Philippines ordering tax payer funded medicine. NOT the Church blocking access.
I think you love being obtuse.
It pits the president, who says family planning is critical for reducing poverty, against the country’s Supreme Court and Catholic leadership.
Polls show that most Filipinos support the Reproductive Health Law, […..]
But it has been strongly opposed by the powerful Catholic Church.
Are you honestly saying you, Mr. Wynski, in all your long life have never heard of the Catholic Church’s attempts to block access to birth control, ever? You have never heard of this?
You have never heard of the RCC advocating for blocking condom usage, even in the face of HIV?
The pontiff said condoms were not the answer to the continent’s fight against HIV and Aids and could make the problem worse.
“It is of great concern that the fabric of African life, its very source of hope and stability, is threatened by divorce, abortion, prostitution, human trafficking and a contraception mentality,” he added.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids
You have never heard of the RCC blocking family planning access in Ireland? Not once?
1968, Pope Paul VI issued the Humanae vitae which “decreed that artificial contraception in all forms was immoral [and] Catholics [were] obliged not to use artificial contraception.”
In the same year (1971), the Irish Family Planning Association published a Family Planning Guidebook that was met with significant demand. However, by 1976 the Church managed to have the guidebook banned, prevailing in restricting access to unbiased reproductive information.
http://thecircular.org/overview-contraception-ireland-past-present-papal-influence/
On the eve of the vote in early 1985, the Dublin archbishop claimed the legislation would send Ireland down a “slippery slope of moral degradation.” Some politicians were even threatened with violence if they voted for the legislation.
Though it was still illegal to advertise contraceptives and use of the birth control pill remained restricted, the vote marked a major turning point in Irish history – the first-ever defeat of the Catholic Church in a head-to-head battle with the government on social legislation.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ireland-allows-sale-of-contraceptives
Where did you get this magic rock? I might want to vacation under it for a few years.
True that, Richard, but the point Terra is making is that, in Catholicism, sins can be absolved via a few decades of the Rosary and maybe a few bucks in the poor box whereas in Scientology repentance can only be obtained by writing up every wrong thing you did, working yourself up through a series of conditions, and usually outlaying a nice wad of cash. It is far easier to leave the Catholic Church than it is to leave Scientology.
Richard, I did a THOROUGH search and could not find any countries where people didn’t have access to contraceptives Why are you making up stories?
I couldn’t find the reference I had about how the Catholic Church works to obstruct and prevent birth control products from being delivered to poor countries so it’s hearsay. The Trump administration cancelled three or four billion dollars of contributions to the United Nations which was designated for family planning services to be delivered to poor countries, a matter of recent public record.
From the Wikipedia entry “World population”, earth population in 1960 was 3 billion people and is expected to reach 8 billion in six years. Talking about global warming and pollution control without talking about birth control is a waste of words in my opinion. “Climate Scientists” rarely mention population control or zero population growth which is achieved by a reproductive rate of 2.1 children per female. The be fruitful and multiply crowd would have a fit and cause their funding to get yanked, also an opinion.
Hey Mike, this question isnt pertaining to your blog entry but first of all. BRAVO! I pray for you and your family. What you and Leah are doing is so courageous, you two are saving lives. Secondly, upon watching the episode about the Lies of LRH, I noticed in the 8-80 Scientology book, after LRH’s name it says C.E. and D.Sen. does anyone have a clue what it means? I always thought C.E. meant “Christian Era” or continuing education lol Just knowing all the lies set out by him, im wondering what he’s bestowed upon his name. Much appreciation for any ideas! Once again, bless you for what you are doing.
C.E. is known as Common Era. (google it for more info).I guess since LRH apparently thought himself a god type, using the Christian B.C. and A. D. were unacceptable. I am not and never will be associated w/Scientology other then to talk bad about Scientology (did you hear that you crazy ass- bastards?) I’m again guessing D–Dianetics, Sen.–Scientology. Hope that helps a bit.
C.E. is the abbreviation for Civil Engineer. Don’t know what the D. Sen. might be but know the C.E. came from Sequoia University which was discovered to be a “degree mill” and shut down.
C.E. = Civil Engineer, D.Scn = Doctor of Scientology
Self awarded titles to lend credibility to his writings.
In the wog world, CE after a name indicates certification in Civil Engineering. I’m pretty sure LRH didn’t know butkiss about engineering (other than whatever he picked up in his adventures). What does ‘D. Sen’ stand for?
Danielle, I believe the CE stands for Civil Engineer, the degree program that he sort of started at George Washington University and flunked out of. DScn stands for Doctor of Scientology, a degree he conveniently awarded himself. He also at times claimed a Ph.D. from Sequoia University, a now defunct degree mill in CA. I believe that Hubbard’s only true claim to a degree is his High School diploma.
Dave,
Abuse and Assault Update:
Which metaphor is your choice for the news of the day, for you and your ilk — ‘dropping like flies’, ‘falling like dominos’, ‘tip of the iceberg’, or ‘snowball effect’? Have you doubled Shelly’s ration of slop to make sure that she is not overly emaciated when the abuse Task Force interviews her alone and without ‘handlers’?
Surely, Tom has been told to keep his jet topped off with fuel at all times since your cult would not permit you to flee to Arizona for ‘rehab’.
To: threefeetback
From: David Miscavige COB RTC
Re: the abuse and assault update.
I will not tolerate these lies and slanders against my glorious person! Confess your crimes right now or I will come over there, give you a good thrashing, and then throw your sorry ass in the RPF!
ML
Dave
No matter where he might flee, with all the money he has stolen he will become a target by people much more vicious than he is!
For all of the trouble I got into on the Apollo, I think I had at most 2 sec checks the entire 11 years in the Sea Org. When did this sec checking nonsense become so prevalent? Was this a DM thing or an LRH thing?
No doubt it just went hand in hand with the disconnections that went viral inside the cult.
In my whole 7 years (2008-2015) in scn when I was fully on board with the cult I was sec-checked around 12 times.
When this summer I have to “ascend to periscope depth” and to be a good boy for sometime I was sec-checked almost 8 hours.
clearlypissedoff, not sure but in ’81 at Flag (obviously pre-DM influence) I grabbed an S.O. members folders who was having post problems and he had 10 PC folders of nothing but sec checks going back 9 years at that point…
It seems it happened after 1982. Sec Checking/Integrity Processing was used before that but not to the degree after 82. ‘Ethics’ actions like Rollback were also introduced then.
Yes 1982 seems about right. But then Sec Checking became mandatory every 6 months or more when on Solo Nots. I think it was a way to get them on base to reg the hell out of them besides taking money for the Sec Checks.
Yeah, good question. A few old timers I met back in the day who were the old OT4 – 7 recipients, never had the sec checks, nor the crush regging either. They were free to come and go, have a life of their own and spoke highly of the tech. But by ’86 they disappeared with a very sour view of the Cof$. ANZO (Aust & NZ) were a little behind the times back then, but it all caught up. I remember the missions fired into the org and in no time, it was all our fault Scientology wasn’t working. It still is the reason for the failures in the minds of Scientology managers. (Scientologists really are incredibly blind and silly people).
It seems when all else fails in dealing with humans, make ’em feel guilty/wrong is the destination all cults & nearly all religions fall back on as a control method. It doesn’t matter which side of the ledger is made wrong, just as long as control is maintained and the $ flows.
Organised Scientology in actual practice by the mother church is one the most degenerate mind sets imaginable. It is a good example of the negative capabilities the human mind is susceptible to. A knowledge of what this article is actually about is a good thing to know. Scientology took an old method of control and made it into a technically recognisable aberration according the Hubbard. And look how that worked out!
The sins of both Hubbard & now Miscavige sit at the core of Scientology. For all their hype, Scientology is NOT user friendly and enforces that it’s members build their own ‘prisons of belief’ to serve and support the mother Church. The IAS… geezers, enough said!
Good article Terra.
Morning!
Excellent article Mike. It’s amazing how the game may differ slightly but the rules are always the same: round up the little guy and herd him into a big pen with the other little guys. He doesn’t realize it at the time but he’ll be so happy. Just ask the trail boss lol. It really all boils down to fear and someone with enough power to take advantage of that fear (of the unknown, which is what religion is). Down thru history it has been evident that someone with a big idea, a little luck, a goodly helping of charisma and enough BS to get a force behind then, can rule (at least part of) the world. Every infamous dictator, religious leader or cult leader had this going for them. I mean look at Hitler. With nothing more than a little luck, being in the right place at the right time, and wandering into a covert meeting of what would later become the SS, look at what he did.
What does boggle my mind with the COS tho, is how complicated it is. I honestly don’t know how people learn it, never mind staying up on the baffling amount of bullshit. I can’t even remember all the abbreviations when I’m reading you and The Bunker. I know people often know the whole Bible, but once they have it, it’s a done deal. It hasn’t changed one word in thousands of years. The rest of the rules are pretty simple: don’t break the 10 commandments and you’re good to go. Scientology’s massive amount of dialog and all the doublespeak, the loss of train of thought, all of it is beyond my ken. I commend anyone who can wade thru any of that crap and still stay on track. Kudos for tenacity alone lol!
And again, I want to commend you for all you do. Laying your personal life on the table for the world to see, in order to help others get out go the grip of this monster is a wonderful thing. Leah’s tireless work as well, putting her career on the line and using her talent to get the message to the world is amazing. You two, along with Tony Ortega, and all the people who have come forward and shared their lives, their heartbreaks, written books, and spent their own money, are changing the world for good. Those of us out here who can only read and follow, are behind you and would do whatever we could to help. We have no COS in my part of Florida, and most didn’t even know who they were until your show. I have a feeling tho, that they’d never be allowed to get a foothold around my part of the world. Never underestimate the power of a redneck with a hunting rifle and a monster truck lol! My great respect to you all
“What does boggle my mind with the COS tho, is how complicated it is. I honestly don’t know how people learn it, never mind staying up on the baffling amount of bullshit.”
Yeah that would be difficult to wrap your thinking gear around if you’re looking from the outside in. But all those things you have observed, re Hitler & the shenanigans cult leaders get up to, the charisma etc etc are outlined and explained in Scientology. For awhile Scientology gives you hope that it has all the answers you’ve ever needed to know why life is what it is and offers a way out of the mess. Auditing is, or was fun, but you can’t take it seriously the way it is delivered, as it goes nowhere but Scientologists believe it does. The underlying and outrageous lies used concerning delivering such a thing are staggering. There is a remarkable amount of “truth” in Scientology, borrowed and or stolen or reorganised by Hubbard, but it’s enough to rouse your interest. But the way it used leads to a despicable trap. The Cof$ IS a criminal racket! It destroys the dreams and aspirations of the well intended.
But and it’s a BIG but, is that the arrival of the internet was never calculated by Hubbard and has given rise to the continuing exposure of the scam, their public relations is now worse than the KKK. Victims now how a voice. What (especially) Leah, Mike plus Ortega et al on his site are doing is phenomenal and they are now the vanguard of the fight back. Prior to that the system of Scientology was carefully hidden & manipulated. It does expose a rather inept side to the judiciary system that it can be manipulated like that from a pseudo religious angle. Without lawyers Scientology would be just a memory.
The whole scene has changed considerably, yes Scientology would be and is hard to understand, especially now that the truth of its organised crime aspect is being exposed. Maybe that’s a good thing, why bother with it? You seem like a cluey type of guy, glad you’ve recognised that Scientology is a cult. Happy trails.
Nice write up there and I like how you said once read that we don’t usually read it again. Just follow your commandments and your good to go.
Hear hear! ?
TC, nailed it. No matter how big or small a being you are, you are never done getting off overts and withholds. Keeps the members in a constant state of subservience, I’ve been there.
“been there”, but obviously not “done it”! Sorry, couldn’t resist the obvious pun.
Hi Mike. This question doesn’t have anything to do with today’s blog, but after watching Leah and your show on Scientology, then watching all episodes again… I have decided that I am going to learn a bit more about the cult and some of the people who have come out of it. I am a believer in Jesus Christ and I pray often about the whole situation. I’m getting to the point where I feel the need to perhaps do something more. There are no Scientologists in my area, and I’ve never ever talked to a single Scientologist in my life. So I have no clue what someone not involed in any way with the cult and who doesn’t have any outreach so to speak to have since there is nothing in my area or even remotely close to, I just don’t know what more I personally could do, but I will still pray for not only full disclosure and punishment to those whom it is due, but for healing and self esteem and comfort for those who have escaped and left. Dianetics never interested me when it first cam about and over the years I just always thot of it as “off” and never took time to pursue learning anymore about the subject. Even after watching the whole series of your show over for a second time, my brain still cannot compute what I hear! It’s so absurd yet I totally understand how brain washing works and how people become indoctrinated. I also understand the questionable use of drugs from doctors. So I do believe and understand fully, even thou it’s so absurd. I am filled with strong emotion and dare I say I am so proud of all of you who have taken a stand against such evils of Scientology and suffer the abuse in return. When thinking about life… many of us wonder if we could, but as you came to a realization, how could you NOT do something once having your eyes and heart enlightened to the depths of CoS depravity, sickness and evil that all are forced to participate in. I read an old Indian proverb 30 some years ago which touched my heart and still does which goes; “Never judge a brother till you’ve walked a mile in his moccasins” and as we all have our own life stories, when we get the chance to see other peoples journeys and how their walk of life has been, we can all become more compassionate and loving people. I admire the many of you who have broken free from this cult, to find freedom as never before, only to be bombarded with attacks and torture all the more as they try to bomb ya from the outside cause they can’t get ya on the inside anymore.
I will just keep praying for God’s will to be done, as the Bible reads, “Be sure your sin will find you out” and this is the time for that to happen. I don’t know anyone in the mess of it, but I feel it in my bones it will be coming to a full throttle death of the false religion. Even in that, I pray for those who are staunch believers when that does happen because they will still believe and feel betrayed as LRH taught them to be. For those people, I hope many or all of the ex scientologists will reach out and share and show the depts of the lies they have been taught and forced to believe.
Keep on doing what you are called in this season to do and may the Lord be with you in strength, truth and power as He goes before you to make your crooked places straight.
Susan, having grown up in a church like yours, and as a former believer in Jesus, I can assure you that you have been indoctrinated just as heavily as Scientologists. It’s simply another brand. The core message is you are nothing without Jesus, so get on your knees and your “sins” will be forgiven. Before looking at how others are indoctrinated, you might also explore how you got that way. You might find that you were born into it, just as many Scientologists were. I hope you find your way out, too.
Ken, sorry for whatever caused you to deem necessary calling my faith a cult like Scientology. There are so many forms of faith in this day and age, and many are off, I agree. Not everything or everyone is in a cult because they believe and follow. You seriously cannot even begin to compare the love of God with Scientology! I know that anything said from you will be a dig in that direction so I choose not to fight or argue with you, and believe we all have the right to believe as we so choose, but I was merely telling Mike and Leah I was proud and thankful for the strength and courage they had to withstand this battle they are in with Scientology. I didnt write to try get a rise out of anyone, but to thank them. Your perogative to try to bait me but I choose not to participate.
Oh, come on, Keng, you’re laying it on a little thick here. “Indoctrinated just as heavily as scientologists”? Give me a break. Your own prejudices are showing. Okay: Jehovah’s Witnesses and various rigid Christian sects – but even those don’t practice the full horror that is scientology, with all the fair gaming, law suits and the like and the billions of dollars to spend on it all. No, scientology in inevitably worse.
I think that’s a little harsh kengullette. I don’t see Susan proselyting or doing anything but being sympathetic and praying for people and wishing them the best. I’m not a Christian and I don’t belong to any organized religion, but I don’t see anything but goodwill in Susan’s post.
Religion? Bah! Humbug! I have no need of it.
Amen to that brother!
Ken, as a Christian and as a Scientologist, I disagree with the idea that all of Christianity is based on indoctrination. My acceptance of Jesus Christ is due to the fact that the Bible laid out the terms, I studied and accepted those terms, and thus it is. There was no indoctrination involved and everything I believe is based on free will.
kengullette,
The Catholic Church and Scientology share some negative attributes, but Scientology stands alone on so many negative counts, that it’s not worth the comparison. For one thing, you can drop Catholicism one morning and never look back (as so many have done) but Scientology is a sophisticated trap designed by an evil man that screws members for life. This is due in part because an ordinary Scientologist trains far more rigorously and longer than even a Jesuit priest. An ordinary Catholic has a tiny catechism book, little to no “hard core” training and their young people can find a hot date at a Catholic social affair.
Yes, I question anything I’m meant to bend a knee to as well. Faith is trip all in itself but they all seem to walk similar paths as far as I can tell. Some find their “spiritual freedom” in such things. Many however are simply part of a flock. I don’t judge others by the beliefs they hold, just their actions. I am however very wary of those that insist on enforcing their beliefs on others. They are part of a system with unseen motives at the top of the chain imo.
Kengullette I feel sorry for you. At least one can leave the Catholic Church without being harassed for that decision. The church does not demand more and more money from their followers like the COS. I hope you wake up some day and free yourself from this evil cult.
Susan, as a fellow sister in Christ, I completely echo and support your reply. I, too, have watched the series a few times through and have been completely astounded, shocked, and horrified by what this evil organization has done and continues to do to people and families. I can’t stop praying for Mike, Leah, and all the rest of those people who have a direct line of connection to those who are still active in this cult and hope that their efforts will be blessed and that this toxic organization will fall apart. One thing we CAN do, as often as possible, is continue to be prayer warriors.
Susan, don’t listen to Ken. This should not be a judgy spot for someone who wants the help! Hope you have a Merry Christmas and you can go on Change.Org to sign Jeffrey Augustine’s petition to take away tax free status from the CoS! That would be a big help!
When I worked for Social Services…I was assigned to a couple who were in their early 40’s. They were strict Catholics & had NINE children, receiving partial welfare since the husband’s income wasn’t meeting their financial needs. The woman was 41 & thin as a reed….she looked many years older than her years & she had had 3 or 4 miscarriage between these nine live births & nearly “bled out” during her last childbirth.
When she asked their Priest about using “birth control” or tubal ligation…the Priest told her it was a “mortal sin”…& against Catholic Doctrine. When she asked the Priest “what am I supposed to do as I nearly died when our last child was born….her uterus had basically nearly shredded & had to be sewn back together…yet she was told she COULD still get pregnant again but she’d more than likely die in childbirth should she attempt to have another baby.
The Priest told her “next time your husband comes to you for sex, lay there & don’t participate…act like you don’t enjoy it”. WT??? She said “THAT is NOT going to keep me from getting pregnant again”……. the Priest was perplexed & got up & left the room, leaving her sitting there alone.
I sent her & her husband to the local women’s health center for information & counseling…….called ahead to make sure they were going to see the BEST person possible…a close friend….& she & her husband DID receive & use birth control despite her Priest’s bull crap “church doctrine campaign”. Her health improved, she gained weight & was able to care for her family the way she should have been able to before “obeying” the church doctrine. They continued attending Mass, receiving Holy Communion & participating in Church Activities despite their “cloak of darkness secret”…….in plain language…she LIVED to raise the nine children she & her husband had, despite the SAME Priest asking her “when can WE expect YOU to have another baby??”…….
This story and the one above about the catholic cemetery would may be true in like the 1800’s early 1900’s. Born, raised, Still am Catholic. I take birth control, I go visit my father’s grave in a Catholic cemetery, never saw the area for the suicides. I also go to church on Sunday. I have friends from my all girl catholic high school who don’t go to church and really have no religious affiliation anymore, but we are still friends like before and their families are all intact.
I know the Catholic Church is not perfect and I don’t agree with all practices, but I’m not in constant fear because of those disagreements. I read this blog pretty much every day and never commented, but after those two stories I needed to give my opinion.
Also staying with the blog post, I don’t go to confession. That is one of the things I don’t agree with, but I am still welcomed at church every Sunday. My choose is not to go and no one has ever forced me. Except when I was in school and that is a different story lol.
The Birth Control issue is one of the big ones for me as a Catholic. I don’t agree with the Church’s stance. I personally feel that if one is going to say that using contraceptives to prevent pregnancy is going against God’s will ergo all contraceptives are bad, THEN for me one must also, logically, agree that receiving Chemo for cancer, or using vaccines to prevent childhood diseases are also equally bad in that it could be argued that the disease was God’s will. Of course a Catholic is allowed to receive chemo or take any other medication. We are allowed to vaccinate our children. Therefore I believe that God gave us our intelligence and curiosity which led us to develop the medications that help us and keep us safe which includes contraception. Why would God want someone to have a dozen children when they can’t take care of them for whatever reason? JMO
Just want to add this:
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/cw/post.php?id=638
“It is important to note that there are several natural birth regulation methods approved by the Catholic Church such as Natural Family Planning, the Ovulation Method, the Creighton Model Fertility Care System, as well as the Billings method. These methods also assist couples to achieve pregnancy.”
Yes indeed…..the way back then “approved’ Rhythm method…..that was used by practicing Catholics……as in “Sorry honey…..I’m ovulating……..
Never done sinning and confessing? … Not totally true, Terra … There came a point where I was DEFINITELY done confessing … but I guess at that point I was no longer a Scientologist … As for sinning? … Well … I probably just got too old or maybe just too disinterested in that word to be concerned about it any more …
Oh, I hear you loud and clear Joe. I’m done with it too. If I’m ever asked to explain myself, well… I come as a package deal. Sort of a like a take it or leave scenario. My concerns are well and truly defunct about being a sinner. Some of best memories of life were audited as a crime and I was forced to do lowers on them to go OT – what a load of crap! Fuck them for doing that, I took them back with pride!
While no religion is perfect, considering it is run by flawed, imperfect people, I do feel the need to defend my Catholic beliefs here. The first misconception is that the priest has the power to forgive your sins. He doesn’t. The priest is seen as God’s representative on earth. He is a go between. A face we can actually speak to and a voice we can hear. When a penitent is in the confessional, he is kneeling before God and asking for forgiveness. The priest absolves you “in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”. It is God who has the power to forgive. The priest is just acting as a physical proxy, so to speak. It is comforting to actually hear someone tell you that you are forgiven.
Vatican Council II, Lumen Gentium says: “Those who approach the sacrament of Penance obtain pardon from the mercy of God for the offence committed against Him and are at the same time reconciled with the Church, which they have wounded by their sins, and which by charity, example, and prayer seeks their conversion.” we receive pardon from God.
We are all flawed people. The wonderful thing about us, all of us, is that we were created with free will. The most wonderful gift God could have given us. We have the freedom to choose. This is one way that Scientology is so wrong. Scientology seeks to take away that freedom of choice from it’s members. Where God created us as diverse and different and wonderful, each with his or her own gifts and strengths, Scientology seeks to whittle away everything that makes each person unique. Scientology seeks to create an order of followers with no choice. Catholics have the freedom of choice. If I choose not to go to Mass, then I simply don’t go. No one will hunt me down, stalk me or contact my friends or family. Even if I find myself excommunicated I can still walk into any church, sit down in a pew and be at peace before God. I can still attend Mass. I am still considered a part of the apostolic community. Excommunication does not mean shunning. “Any Catholic who has been excommunicated still remains a Catholic and is bound by obligations such as attending Masses but they are baned from receiving the Eucharist. Excommunicated members cannot take an active part in the liturgy in a ministerial position.“ unlike Scientology, Catholics are still welcome to participate, interact with family and friends and *gasp* can come and go on Church property as they wish. Also unlike Scientology, the Church uses excommunication only in extreme cases of misconduct and to be reinstated all one must do is basically apologize, “Resolving excommunication can be by a declaration of repentance, profession of the Creed or renewal of obedience by the excommunicated person and the lifting of the denunciation by a priest or bishop empowered to do so.” there is no time in the RPF, no public humiliation, no working one’s way back. Forgiveness is part and parcel of the Catholic Church and is absolutely non existent in Scientology.
Finally- Sin. The Church teaches that the Soul is made up of the intellect and the Will. In order for someone to commit a sin, the person has to first know that something is wrong, and then choose to do it anyway. If one looks at the Commandments, as a guide, one sees that what is considered “Sin” is all outwardly directed. Sin is harm of others. Stealing, adultery, murder, extreme jealousy that damages one’s relationships, etc. God wants us to love one another and be good to one another. We are a community. A family. And when one makes the choice to harm another member of the community, it damages the family.
The Church recognizes that we are a sinful people, that we all make mistakes. God, who created us, loves us and forgives us in spite of anything we could do. While the Church teaches that there is a Hell (the absence of God) it does not say who goes there because God forgives all of us. No matter what, only God can decide and we have no way of knowing what goes on between the soul and God at the end. Even Judas, who betrayed Christ and then hanged himself could still have been forgiven and is in Heaven.
Scientology, on the other hand, considers Sin to be anything done against Scientology. It does not particularly care about the welfare of it’s members. What it cares about is appearances and who is causing a Shore Flap, making COS look bad. Mary Kahn, during the show, said one of the members stole money from her credit card in order to be OK with his own standing in COS. Mirriam, Saina and so many other members are molested, abused, attacked, neglected and mistreated all in the name of Scientology. The Sins committed, i.e lust, anger, theft, coveting, whatever are overlooked and allowed to continue to damage the community while COS worries about it’s own image. COS believes that only IT has the ability to save mankind. This is the biggest sin of all; placing COS as a god. Pride in Scientology and the idolatry of itself at the exclusion of God is what separates COS from other religions. And this is the difference between what Sin is in the world of LRH and DM and in The Church. To Catholics sin destroys the family of man. It damages the community. Sin hurts others. Scientology’s only “sin” is when it affects Scientology.
I submit this respectfully and only from my perspective as a Catholic. (Full disclosure; I am what one would consider a “lapsed Catholic”. While I do love my faith very much, there are some aspect of it that I find hard to agree with so I struggle to reconcile my love for my faith with what my conscience tells me.)
” The priest is just acting as a physical proxy, so to speak.”
This seems to be the human Achilles Heel with respect to religions in general. There always seems to be an annointed human that inserts him/her self between you and your concept of god/spirit/nature.
Somehow the process reduces down to time/money/commitment in it’s various forms as we choose a belief system that resonates with ourselves and our community.
Such is the way humanity has evolved. Some religions offer/take more than others but it is what we do ………. for the most part.
Governments have also gotten into the act by inserting themselves between ourselves and the earth which supports all life. They also extract a measure of time/money/commitment in exchange for a stipend which is the exchange for the ‘benefits’ provided.
So basically we have an earth/spaceship which provides the resource base to support all life on earth. The religions and governments of the world have laid claims on this resource base (and the living things it supports) and also presented themselves as the proxy to provide the care and understanding to make sure it benefits us and our eternity in all of it’s forms.
So I sometimes look at the condition of things and ask “So how are we doing today?” after 10,000 or so years of spiritual guidance and governmental/dictatorial management?
My take away is a question … “Do we really need a proxy?”
Don’t mean to be harsh, but trying to reason or use logic with a person of faith is an oxymoron
Mike,
What’s “logical” is what’s “logical” for you . . .
Or as Spock famously said on the original Star Trek TV series, ” Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD. Are you sure your circuits are registering correctly? Your ears are green. ”
Dave F.
Precisely, Mike. That’s why it’s so tough to get anyone out of scio. They’ve got a ready made answer for virtually any negative question. I was in a long while ago and out at the beginning of the 80s. (No one missed me. LOL) I was always surprised that I never got called into ethics for my resistance to standing and clapping to a large photograph of Hubbard. ROFL I seriously doubt that so great an omission would be tolerated in the present day czerch!
Mike, pretty much ALL of the astronauts in the Apollo program were men of faith (and expert engineers and some physicists on top of that). Are you saying that using logic with one of them would be an oxymoron? Or, that you are more logical than them?
Excuse me, I take exception to your comment, Mike. Yes I am a person of faith, I believe in God and I believe that there is something better. I am also an intelligent person who believes in questioning. I don’t believe that the Christian creation story is fact. I know that there are actually hundreds of creation stories from all different civilizations who all try and explain our beginnings. I believe in evolution. The very fact that I disagree with some of my Church’s positions proves that I am not some blind, featherheaded follower. But I am proud of my faith. Faith is a gift and my whole hearted belief that there is something better and there is Someone greater who blesses my life is important to me. Faith does not take away from someone’s logic or intelligence. On the contrary my faith is what drives me to seek. To understand. To question and study. My faith is what drove me to find out about Scientology. To read the books and watch the show and hear the stories from those who lived this experience. I want to KNOW. What drives my Catholic beliefs within me? What do I believe in and what do I question? What drives those who joined Scientology? What do they believe in? How does it align with my own understanding? Is there merit? My faith, which you scorn, drives me. God gave me free will and I use it to learn and decide for myself what I believe. I love and am proud of my faith. I am sorry you are missing something so fundamental in your life.
azhlynne: “But I am proud of my faith. Faith is a gift and my whole hearted belief that there is something better and there is Someone greater who blesses my life is important to me. Faith does not take away from someone’s logic or intelligence.”
Faith is even better than logic or intelligence, if by “faith” you mean “knowingness,” in reference to knowledge gained by direct experience or perception.
Many people believe that if science hasn’t proven something, then it has no vallidity. Apparently, those people have science as their religion, since they take it on “faith” that science alone contains truth. 😉
Mike,
You said, ” Don’t mean to be harsh, but trying to reason or use logic with a person of faith is an oxymoron “.
END QUOTE :
The same can be said when a “person” of faith” ( like myself ) tries to reason with an Atheist or an Agnostic, that cannot accept anything based on “faith”, rather than “proof”.
In the most basic sense, ask yourself this. In Physics, the Law of Conservation ( 1st Law of Thermodynamics ) states that “matter is neither created nor destroyed”.
All of that is based on scientific theory, intense calculation, etc., and is very “logical”, UNTIL one asks the question, “How was the universe created, if physics states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed?”
If you believe the “Big Bang Theory”, the same holds true . . . UNTIL you ask the question, “Where did the material originate that “exploded” and what caused it to explode ?
The only “logical” answer is that no one knows the answer, not can they PROVE it. Obviously, it is beyond our understanding and we “made a guess”, based on the limits of our intelligence and abilities.
If we are at the “limit” of our intelligence and abilities, how can anyone “logically” deny the existence of God, since that is also beyond our level of comprehension and cannot be “proven” ?
Rather, we must accept the existence of God, on “faith”, since we are incapable of “proving” it, due to the limitations of Man !
God Bless You ,
Dave F.
I think most Catholics are good peace loving people who just feel the need for faith. The bigger problem is the establishment itself.The Catholic church wrote the playbook on torture, control, murder and mayhem, and lying to it’s people. Even today they cover up a multitude of sin in the name of saving face.
I have often wondered how the various popes lived with all that chicanery, criminality and just plain barbarism. The pedophile priests, too. I doubt not that the same criminality is alive and well in the catholic church in many parts of the world.
No differently than that same criminality being alive and well in every other sector of human life. There are pedophiles, unfortunately, in every religion and cult. There are atheist pedophiles, teachers, pastors, coaches, you name it. The Catholic Church is also filled with a lot of good, kind, loving people who are just as outraged as everyone else over this issue. People are people no matter what they do for a living. Guilt by association is wrong. Some priests are sick individuals and have done horrible, criminal things. That does not make all of us tainted. There are good people and bad people everywhere. If someone in your family cheats on his/her spouse, does that make every member of your family a cheater or somehow less? Of course not. There are some seriously horrible people in Scientology but all one has to do is look at Mike Rinder, Leah Rimini and the others who left and are speaking out to see that Scientology also has a lot of good people in it as well.
I have also always believed that “people are people no matter what they do for a living.” There are indeed good and bad people in every walk of life – I say this all the time. When people bring up sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, I respond with, “I’m Jewish and I’m not naive enough to believe that this doesn’t go on in my faith as well.” The Catholic Church just has a more public profile than most other faiths and, unfortunately, the bad stuff tends to be what people pay attention to. I wish folks could pay more attention to the good stuff. I also wholeheartedly believe that most scientologists went into it with the best of intentions. It’s just a terrible shame that, when many scientologists get an idea of what’s really going on, it can be so difficult/traumatic for them to get out, largely because they were born into it or brought into it as very young children and it’s all they’ve ever known. It’s also a very frightening thought to have to “disconnect” from their families and friends.
azhlynne, this is one of best descriptions of Scientology and religion that I have ever seen! If you don’t mind, I would like to repeat a couple fabulous lines that are very true for me:
“Scientology seeks to whittle away everything that makes each person unique. Scientology seeks to create an order of followers with no choice. Catholics have the freedom of choice.”
“Scientology, on the other hand, considers Sin to be anything done against Scientology. It does not particularly care about the welfare of it’s members.”
“Pride in Scientology and the idolatry of itself at the exclusion of God is what separates COS from other religions.”
“To Catholics sin destroys the family of man. It damages the community. Sin hurts others. Scientology’s only “sin” is when it affects Scientology.”
(Full disclosure: I was a devout Catholic for 10 years and then adopted Scientology for 35 years doing just about all of Hubbard’s “Bridge to total freedom”. Today I have been out of the cult for 10 years and I am convinced that Hubbard birthed, built and patterned his cult as Lucifer, the original Antichrist.)
Feel free Robert. And thank you! As for the other comments, we are all entitled. For me, I completely understand that man created religion. God just wants us to be the best we can be, love each other in ALL our diversity, and be kind. (My own opinion.) I was mainly trying to point out my own ideas of the differences between what defines “sin” for Scientology and for Catholics. There is a broader picture here IMO, in that Scientology asserts that it is a religion based upon the other religions and their foundings. It tries to say that it is no different as a religion as any other. I was trying to point out in a roundabout way that while true religions all attempt to move a soul outward, towards humanity, community and family; Scientology does just the opposite. It’s actions define Sin as anything against itself while ignoring all the anti-social, immoral behaviors of it’s members. It moves a person inward away from society in favor of the corporation. What doesn’t cause a shore flap isn’t an issue. Where religions try and better people as a whole, (and I am not talking about fanatics. Every religion has them) Scientology attempts to pare down it’s members’ humanity and to shape them into a Borg collective. Catholicism (since that is what I know) wants us to come together as community. Sin harms not only the person but the community as well. Scientology could give a tinker’s damn about either the individual OR the community. Scientology has set itself up as god and as long as nothing interferes with the smooth running of the deity’s collection plate then who cares that DM is assaulting his officers?
As for the rest, I suppose that since ALL people are flawed, sinful and less than perfect we must accept that no religion will be perfect, either. While I personally disagree that the Catholic Church has the corner on “torture, control, murder and mayhem” I know my history and understand that we have done terrible things. But was that The Church or was it overzealous, fanatical members being sinful? Also, the thing about being born into Catholicism is that it is not hard to leave. Yes, once a Catholic always a Catholic is a belief but the reality is that there is nothing to stop a Catholic from traipsing off to the Lutheran, Baptist or any other Church. Or to no church at all. We are not indoctrinated cult like into being Catholic. No one hunts us down with a blow drill and drags us back to face punishment if we choose to leave.
However, again we are all entitled and I write this respectfully.
“I know my history and understand that we have done terrible things. But was that The Church or was it overzealous, fanatical members being sinful?”
How about overzealous and fanatical popes? The “creativeness” of the torturers and the wide variety of the tools they invented for murdering many hundreds of thousands, all in the “name of Jesus/God”, completely boggles my mind. And just how long do you think the pedophelia has been going on?
In the various vaults of the Vatican, and other major churches, lie riches almost beyond the imagination, “acquired” from all over the world and sitting in darkness, doing no one any good at all, while dreadfully ill and starving masses go unhelped. Sorry, Azhlynne, but your words sound rather glib to me. (I was a history major at university.)
So what are you doing for the starving masses? Your words sound rather smug to me. I agree that Rome is not, nor has it ever been, perfect. I agree that The Inquisition was sinful and absolutely wrong. I happen to agree with Martin Luther’s disgust over selling indulgences. But what should we Catholics do? Beating us over the head over the atrocities done down through history is no different than blaming modern day people for slavery. What can we do about it now? And yes there are priceless, valuable treasures in the Vatican. And in every museum in the entire world. The Smithsonian has artifacts in it’s storage that the public will never see. OK, so we all get together and everyone, from Rome to The Louvre sells it all. Lock stock and barrel. All proceeds going to the starving masses. Then what. Once it is all gone, then what? What will be our Church’s responsibility then? What will we be scorned for then? I was in the Novitiate for three years in a convent in Illinois. We ran a hospital, a nursing home, we taught, took care of elderly priests, had homes for unwed mothers, a leprosarium in Brazil and more. We served. So do the Sisters and Brothers and priests all around the world. No one looks at the good we do. But the scandal and the history…oh yes…let’s all go there and smugly condemn and judge from our higher ground. Tell me, Sir, what can we do that would be acceptable? Show me a religion that hasn’t some sin.
Bob, I agree with you and I am also a former Catholic. In the role of Lucifer, Hubbard was tormenting humans by stressing minor actions and using the process for control. He did the same thing with past lives. He created chains of imaginary thetan with body lives that break down under analysis. I am now Buddhist, but I belong to a sect which ignores past lives. This is possible for a variety of reasons. Hubbard wrote at a time when bad translations of Eastern religions was common. The problem that Hubbard never solved was that the history of religion in the East contained multiple strands and viewpoints. Hubbard just seemed to take his idea of the thetan and then just make up or manufacture imaginary stories based on how the theory of the thetan would fit into past lives. Hubbard was writing and speaking fiction in his novels and in Scientology theory. In the end his writings and his religion were all fiction.
Since Christmas is upon us, it might be time to get Hubbard and Scientology straight on Jesus. Hubbard considered Jesus a minor prophet. However, this idea was not his own. The idea in modern times started with Helena Blavatsky in the 1890’s. It then passed through Theosophy into Aleister Crowley. Upon Jack Parsons’ death, Hubbard started to carry the anti-Christian torch. Miscavige dropped the cause in 1990 when he eliminated Hubbard’s Student Briefing that made Jesus a pedophile. Hubbard really believed he was in the role of Lucifer as the “light bearer”. Blavatsky had the same idea and even her legacy published a very popular Journal named “Lucifer”. The problem I traced with Hubbard was that he really had a very poor grasp of the Occult and so Scientology fails in all of its super powers.
George, you really shouldn’t believe these little notes with “OT8” in them slipped under your door on your Freewinds cabin.
Fool, those weren’t noted slipped under the door. They were LRH HCOBs
No they weren’t No-Wynski. HCOBs plural now as well? If anybody believed that tripe is or was OT8 they need their head examining.
Including the person who posts here that DID OT VIII when it was first released and says this issue is what he studied? I assume you are not OT VIII though I don’t really know, but you have never mentioned it.
Do you have more information than George White on which you base your assertion?
Wynski says they were HCOBs. All I have ever seen is several pages of A4 with this drivel on it way back around 1989. So only 1 “HCOB” then anyway. AFAIK no one has ever stated these were HCOBs (when apparently “provided” by slipping them under a cabin door!) and certainly what is floating around in the field was never a copy of an actual HCOB – so they are a write-up done by somebody.
So was the “HCOB” or the document smuggled off the ship? If not, and which of course is highly doubtful, then someone did a very good job of writing up the several pages that this “OTVIIII” consists of. It is rather “detailed” is it not? Or was George allowed to take the “HCOB” home with him in his luggage which we all know would be nonsense!
Now this is also ignoring (conveniently) the usual fantastic security measures that exist for Advanced Courses. The OTVI Solo NOTs Course Room is like Fort Knox so are we now to believe that the Freewinds security measures, and also on board a ship, are not? It would be interesting for George to detail all of this, which he may have done on another blog, so a link would be fine for me to look at.
This was either a purely made-up malicious piece of nonsense by some asshole in the field to discredit Hubbard and the OT Levels – or a ruse by Miscavige to see what he could get away with and what people might believe. But I think it was the first.
georgemwhite – I greatly appreciate your comments.
I cannot say with any certainty that we live more than once or that there is a god. However, I continue to look and learn more and more about the universe and how it appears scientifically to have been created. As well, simply looking at the incredibly complicated creation of a single baby, makes me have to figure there is an incredible “intelligence” at work of which we all are a part. Does it make sense, then, that we only get one shot at it all? Seems it would be a dreadful waste. So I go on with my own belief, based on a lot of facts, harming no one and caring not one whit what others may believe on the subject.
Great explanation! If I may add, you note at the end that you struggle with some aspects of the beliefs of the Catholic Church. Another obvious difference with COS is that you can go talk to a priest about that and he won’t put up an attack video about you!
Thank you for a wonderful and very helpful post. Peace be with you.
Hi azhlynne. I am a former Catholic and was never a Scientologist. I have in the past posted a favorable comparison of Catholic excommunication to an CoS SP declare. So I agree with some of what you said above.
However, I think people should keep in mind that the Catholic church used to be much WORSE than what the CoS is today. The Inquisition went on for centuries where people — far from having “freedom of choice” — were tortured to death for not believing or doing what the church wanted; indulgences were sold (just like ethics protection); child sexual abuse was INSTITUTIONALIZED with the church systematically protecting the abusers rather than the past and future victims. The ONLY reason the Catholic church is less bad today is relentless pressure from the outside — from nonbelievers. I can still remember what it was like to see Catholic parents attacking the atheists who were trying to protect their (the Catholics’) children from their priests — the Catholics protected the priests who abused their children just as rabidly as the “What are your crimes?!” Scientology fundies today. Eventually, with persistent exposure and confrontation from THE OUTSIDE, this situation changed in the Catholic church.
I think people should analyze ALL the ideology and practices that are sick, and some of those can be found in Christian churches and other religions as well as CoS.
azhlynne, thank you, good comment. I’m not Catholic but have lived with many. Your expressions are remarkable and insightful.
azhlynne, extremely well said. As a born Catholic and a 30 plus years scio. I’m very impressed with your comment.
This ties in nicely with Tony’s piece yesterday. In Scientology Land, a self-confessed paedo or sex pest can escape justice simply by “making amends” – typically in the form of a hefty donation and/or by joining staff. Because he has done every conceivably vile, sadistic and/or illegal act over the many trillions of years of his existence, what he has done in his present life is of little significance. Certainly nothing a few conditions, a little auditing and a credit card can’t “fix”.
“There’s only one way to help anybody and that’s take some MEST away from him.” — LRH, 3 Dec 1952, PDC10 Specific Parts of Self Determinism.
What is truly wrong with what you’ve stated is that the amends are made to scio, NOT the victim!!! The organization doesn’t give one minutes thought to the victim but BENEFITS from the crime. That, to me, is virtually sadistic! Another possibility for criminal prosecution of the czerch as benefiting from the crime makes the receiver guilty as well.
I also would like to give great credit to Mike and Leah for exposing the incredible hypocrisy of Hollywood which has practiced these sorts of rapes on men, women and children, going back into the early 1900s when the film “industry” was in its infancy and primarily located in the eastern portion of the US. In truth, I believe the situation will never get better, simply submerged further. “Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.” – Baron Acton
I love you Terra. You made me laugh and cry with this one! I’m still not declared too, And I was in a lawsuit with the church for four years! They are still trying to reg to me.
Perhaps you could suggest a big sin that would get me a real SP declare.
Tell them you want to see all of the books on where IAS donations go. Tell them you won’t donate anything else until they show you the financials.
That will likely handle it.
If not, tell them you want to know if David Miscavige ever did the RPF for physically beating his staff. Tell them you want to see his liability formula. That one got me off the Celebrity Center mail and call lists forever.
Wow, great write up Terra!
When one examines the fact that Hubbard was a serial felon it is no wonder that he wanted to keep the members of his criminal cult looking inward at their “crimes” (that Hubbard invented from whole cloth). That way they didn’t peer too closely at his criminality.
CLASSIC cult leader tactic.
Wynski–
Indeed.
The head of Scientology needs to be brought to justice along with the other idiots that run this organization. I don’t know why the government is not involved with all the physical and mental abuse that goes on with adults and children, along with the rapes that have been commited on women and children.
Men as well.
Agreed. Miscavige has committed so many crimes that would land anyone else in jail. It is about time.