I came across this the other day.
It is a High Winds magazine from 1995. High Winds is the “magazine of the Sea Org” and only a few were ever published, usually to commemorate “Sea Org Day”.
This is the edition where Captain Miscavige (he now considers referring to him this way to be improper/derisive and had his lawyers complain about it in court — because it indicates he is the capo of the SO and he fears this being used in litigation to hold him responsible for the things he is actually responsible for…) announces the “requirements for the release of new OT IX and X”,
Of course, there is no “new OT IX and X” but that is a story for another day. It has actually been told quite often including by Marty Rathbun at his blog, back when he was not being a shill for scientology.
Miscavige knew there was nothing — but he also knew that at the Hubbard death announcement event, it had been stated that Hubbard had “completed the research through new OT XXIII” (or something) in order to give the impression that he had “knowingly and willingly dropped the body which had become an impediment to further OT research” (paraphrased because I cannot be bothered to go and find the transcript) rather than the truth which was that he was in failing physical and mental health and had died after a stroke (not his first) without leaving ANY message for scientologists at all (the biggest “omitted” of all in scientology).
So, Miscavige came up with a list of “requirements” that he knew could never be attained.
You gotta love #2. After proclaiming this as a requirement he subsequently “withdrew” the SHSBC as being “out tech” and a decade or more later it is STILL not available. Remember, this is the course that indisputably, Hubbard taught himself. The only one in scientology. How do we know? It consists of a sequential study of his 350 or so lectures to students on “The Briefing Course” at St Hill in the early 60’s. It is PURE Hubbard. It also tends to teach auditors that the methods of Golden Age of Tech and Golden Age of Tech II are NOT how Hubbard did things and that’s a big no-no for Miscavige.
#3 is also a doozie. Since that time, no org has achieved St Hill Size. In fact, HE has diverted all efforts from building SH Size orgs to raising money to buy buildings for “ideal orgs”.
If you believe in Hubbard — which Miscavige and his followers profess they do, “the Commodore” laid out what had to be done to build a SH Size org. And he NEVER mentions buying a building. In fact, Hubbard’s genius plan was to do “5.4X plans” for every part of the org and that the “International Executive Strata” would be there to help make them happen. Miscavige also disbanded the International Executive Strata by putting all of them and the ED Int into The Hole. If anyone else had done such destruction to clearcut directives from “Ron” they would have been pilloried as an “SP Squirrel” an declared Fair Game.
And #4 is a failsafe in case everything else miraculously gets done, so he can say “Oh, the environment is not yet safe. We need $100 million to eradicate psychiatry.”
Marc Yager (brevet Captain who is now swamper Yager) and Ray Mithoff also make an appearance here. This is before they were banished by Miscavige.
The clubbed seals that are still thinking OT IX and X are coming should actually step back and look at reality.
Hubbard never came up with any new OT levels — he was still trying to get rid of his BT’s to the very end.
And even if he had invented some new “levels,” the person who is lauded for leading everyone to the holy grail of the “real” OT levels is in fact the pied piper leading the lemmings down the garden path. The only thing this “push for OT IX and X” has accomplished is fattening the bank accounts and real estate holdings of the organization. Not a single thing for any scientologist.
David Miscave IS the Wizard of Oz.
Every fence-sitting Scientologist should watch this movie again and again.
Dorothy wants to go home, to Kansas and God only knows why but that’s beside the point, she wants to go home in the worst way and will do anything to go home.
The Still Ins are clamoring for OT 9 and 10 and David Miscavige has been holding out one hoop after another and they have been jumping, and jumping and jumping now for going on 30 years.
Dorothy jumped thru EVERY hoop. Against all odds, did EVERYTHING right. Came thru with everything the Wizard wanted, and more.
And finds out he’s a fake with no power to send her home, no power to do anything for her.
Well, Dorothy was lucky because she was only having a bad dream. And to his credit, the Wizard DID admit in the end that he was a fake.
The Still Ins are not so lucky. Miscavige is a fake, there’s no OT 9 or 10 but he will never admit anything of the sort. All he’ll do is dream up some other hoops for the Still Ins to jump thru.
Dorothy woke up from her bad dream; the Still Ins are living this nightmare.
How can someone be so taken in by such ridiculousness. All the Scientology garbly-gook nonsense words and writings. All the made up stories. All the lies. How empty and lost must you be to be taken in by such nonsense. I say this as my once beloved Aunt has been enveloped in this horror show for 40 plus years now! She had just gotten a divorce and was at a low ebb and was sucked into the muck of Scientology. I have read all the Scientology level descriptions by Claire Headley and survived! No spins, no break downs! Thank you Mr. Rinder for bringing shining a bright clear light into the darkness that is Scientology.
What you know you know. What you not know costs money. The price of the making of indiviuals costs no money.
ARS
Hi Mike. I’m an every day reader and occasional commenter.
My route out was gradual, from playing the game to withdrawing to fully fledged UTR for now.
One specific milestone on the journey was this article you have shown us today. I heard this news and had a good look at what he was saying.
All orgs Saint Hill size. Okay. So, all orgs in the St Lois and Zimbabwe and Detroit areas of the world. Or, what, Port Elizabeth in South Africa? I knew clearly and absolutely that this was not going to happen. Therefore no OT IX and X would happen.
Later we saw the targets morphing into orgs needing to be ideal. Then we saw orgs become Saint Hill size and shrink back to default sizes. One or two here and there.
Following this realization I experienced a gradual eroding of my faith in the game. It wasn’t a sudden thing.
Thanks for this article. I did not know where to dig it up or where it was originally made know. I seem to remember a bunch of then OT 8s discussing this requirement after some event or other. They had similar reactions.
It’s very enlightening for those I know who read your blog who are not yet fully out, to see these older articles. Thanks again.
Calling Miscavige Captain invites comparison with the real Captain in the Sea Org, Napier.
Can Misc take command of Freewinds? Doubtful. But he finished his AB checksheet in record time!
In the real world it takes three years !
Trained or not, he can do it. After all, he’s a Sea Org member!
‘Trained or not, he can do it’. No he can’t! And, he never will! Why? Because they’re Scientologist. The stupidest people in the world.
Of COURSE Miscavige can take command of the “Fleecewinds” at any time. Hell, all he would have to do is give orders to do this or that. AND if they’re conflicting orders, that’s the CREW’s fault for being CICS; HE’s by definition perfect, infallible, never mind if he gives orders impossible to carry out in the real world.
Here I am, breathlessly awaiting the release of OT IX and X (so I can have a good laugh), and it turns out I have to wait for Miscavige to finish fixing all of Ron’s fuckups on the Briefing Course first! Wah! I suppose the release of the GAT II BC should be good for a few chuckles though, if ol’ 4’13” ever gets around to it.
Christ, it’s been 24 years since He announced the requirements for OT IX and X? C’mon, Cappy Dave, get with it! People have lived and died waiting around for this crap!!!
Hello Ron Hubbard, wherever you are
I trust you like Target Two
All of my BTs go with you tonight
No one deserves them but you
Be bold, Ron Hubbard, go have a cigar
Be bold, the all knowing dude
Cling very close to your clusters tonight
Smoke a whole carton of Kools
I know how it feels to have feds on your heels
And to cruise down the street in a trance
You cruise down a street on the chance you won’t meet
As you hide, it’s all a big dance
Don’t cheer Ron Hubbard, whatever you do
Don’t cheer ’cause you’re all alone
All Org statistics are crashing tonight
All the old timers have blown
All the old timers have blown, poor man
All the old timers have blown!
Hilarious, Scribe!
“The external environment must be a safe environment for Scientology”
Well, that will never happen as long as Mike and Leah are around.
OverRun, the external environment of scientology won’t ever be safe as long as Captain MustSavage retains control.
O/T. A brief update, if I may. Yesterday, I noted that on July 26, 2019, Scientology Freedom Medal Winner Nation of Islam Minister Tony Muhammad spoke at the Muhammad University of Islam graduation held at a Church of Scientology facility (i.e., a COS church or community center) in Los Angeles. Today, I want to post the second of the two (for now) expected Twitter excerpt videos.
At Muslim University of Islam graduation held at a Scientology facility, Scientology Freedom Medal Winner Nation of Islam Minister Tony Muhammad refers to:
“White people, our enemies” and “infidels.”
https://twitter.com/ISNOINews/status/1163873576472072194
ESMB post with link to full video: https://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/scientology-awards-freedom-medal-to-nation-of-islam-min-tony-muhammad-who-promotes-anti-semitic-book.44564/page-17#post-1221229
/
Very sad days, had to take our 13 year old medium hair Tuxedo cat MISCHA to the Vet to be put to sleep….kidney failure….my shadow that followed me all over, that slept with me & ON me for 13 years, the cat who “owned me”….she objected to being handled by anyone else, & was always looking for me…. went to Rainbow Bridge to meet her “adopted brother” Flynn (our long haired Tuxedo) that we lost to cancer 18 months ago.
Loving a pet has it rewards and down falls….I could NOT sleep last night, her presence was greatly missed.
I feel for you.
The loss of our white German Shepherd was very traumatic, especially for the boys. She had nuzzled, protected and played with Jack since the minute he was born. She was literally sitting next to Christie when she was in labor. Jack could do no wrong in the eyes of Nikita. As a baby he poked her in the eye, pulled her ears, rode on her back and generally did everything to try to make her life uncomfortable. She just smiled. But a stranger who approached Jack had better beware…
Animals provide something scientology beats out of humans — unconditional love. It is a terrible loss.
Thank you for your very kind & heartfelt words of sympathy. My heart aches for your loss as well…..I had a Golden Retriever “Nugget” who we lost at age 14 due to cancer….she was the protector of myself & our kids & wouldn’t let anyone near them or me if she felt they were threatened. She was like Mischa, followed me everywhere & slept on the floor next to our bed…my side of course. My husband would say “YOU love that dog/Cat more than you love ME”…I’d tell him “You really don’t want me to answer that do you?”
Nugget didn’t want the Vet to touch her UNLESS I was standing in her full view in Front of her & she could see that I was ok. Mischa put up quite a fuss if ANYONE at the Vet’s put her hands on her….the TEN POUND Cat From Hell, who was at the Vet’s “RED FLAGGED” for simply being feisty & self protective…she trusted no one but me…
Mischa was so very sick & hid it well, it was only after she barely ate, but began drinking a lot of water & using the litter box to pee…horrific to think they cannot TELL us what’s wrong.
I can’t express to you and Leah the MAGIC you brought into so many lives with the Aftermath Series. I KNEW a good deal about cults like Hare Krishna…Children Of God, The Moonies” as high school friends wanting to “do good” got heavily involved…and many paid the HIGH price as they did with COS.
The Magic you wove was to have former members & YOURSELVES bare the horrors of the treatment within the realm of COS….& knowing as you said “I was a COS father”….HONEST, accepting blame for anything wrong you did while on Staff…..YOU HAVE CHANGED….you face has softened, your voice is now full of caring & love…AND defensive for those who have been HURT…stepping up to the plate to help….you ARE the MAGIC THAT HELPS HEAL.
MAY GOD BLESS & KEEP SAFE YOU, CHRIS & THOSE GORGEOUS BOYS & WHAT COS HAS STOLEN FROM YOU….YOUR OLDER CHILDREN…BE RETURNED!
Really sorry for your loss. I know how hard it can be.
I’ve had many cats over the years. Love those little pocket lions. I’ve had, over the years, a few who developed chronic kidney failure, (CRF). In my case, it was the food. If you look at the ingredients of most cat food you’ll see “wheat gluten” “corn gluten” and all sorts of poisons. There’s a good documentary called “Pet Fooled” which covers a lot of this. The best food I’ve found for cats, (other than mice and birds), is called “Orijen cat and kitten”. I currently have 3 healthy cats who are all over 18 years old. Check out the ingredients in most cat foods, compare to the “Orijen cat and kitten”. I haven’t found an equal to it. There may be one, but so far the Orijen is the best food I’ve found. Diet makes a huge difference in the health of cats. (And everything else for that matter).
Thank you for your loving kind words of support & care & concern. I will definitely look into the “Orijen cat and kitten” brand. We’ve had cats live older ages as well…BOTH Mischa & Flynn had “Persian” in them…..and some research indicates they may be more prone to kidney issues. My son’s cat Lexi…is a rare cat a “Black Smoke”…from the skin out her fur is white…the tips are black. When Lexi walks her fur ripples & you see both colors….Weird but pretty.
Flynn was an 18 lb terror…very long haired & beautiful with a huge white mane & “old man fur” coming far out of his ears….one of the Vets thought he might also be part Norway Tree Cat & he had paws like a Catcher’s Mitt…..he was a foundling…came into my son’s worksite from California on a flat bed 18 wheeler….. all the way to Pennsylvania at ONE MONTH OLD…”the idiots in the shipping dept were going to “throw him in the woods” (mind you ONE POUND) so my son refused to let them do that & brought him home.
Mischa and Lexi came from the local SPCA at 3 months each…I was LUCKY to have Mischa for 13 years & 3 months…..She is being cremated & will be home hopefully tomorrow to sit on my nightstand as was her habit.
Thank you for everything, I deeply appreciate you & Mike’s loving words & wonderful stories & information! Stay Well my friend…God Bless, & hug & kiss those fur babies… wish I could do that with Mischa & Flynn!
Balletlady,
I want you to know that although many people do not reply to your post today, it surely means a great deal to many people – like me, for instance.
I fear you might mistakenly feel that people do not appreciate the sincere nature of your participation and I want you to know that would be a mistake. I’m quite certain that many people appreciate your words of comfort. I most certainly appreciate them and I feel it’s important for you to know that.
I fully understand…I KNOW everyone feels my pain……..we are all animal lovers & we care DEEPLY ABOUT EACH OTHER’S HURTS….I certainly did not even anticipate ALL THE LOVE GIVEN TO ME from people I only know on this blog…who did respond, & I DO I KNOW that even if someone did not respond…. everyone really DOES cares & sends their love & concern me in different ways.
The blog is to share concerns about COS, & also for updates on our own situations….just to say MY LOVE & PRAYERS ARE TO EVERYONE….I hope & pray that whatever or whoever was TAKEN from you by COS is returned.
Thank you Skyler!
I feel for you !
When I lost my cat ,I couldn’t have another and right or wrong , still can’t.
And you are right Mike. My grand daughter was watching her mother’s wedding on disk , and it was so beautiful. But I cried because 85% of the people are disconnected from us today. Scientology sucks. Where did the love go ?
And one day my grand children will be old enough to ask questions .
Marie, I also recently looked at our wedding photos and video. I was amazed at how many people in attendance are now routed, left for good, still-in, or today would never talk to me for fear of getting into trouble with the church. Crazy crazy.
I’m sorry for your loss, Balletlady. I know what you are feeling. Losing a beloved pet can be like losing a child if one does not have a child. Hugs to you.
These wonderful creatures are family. My wife and I put our kitty Mira on the rainbow bridge. She was 24. A hole in my heart that will always be a holding place for her.
God bless your sweet kitty
We’ve always have cats. And they are wonderful. And I believe we will see them again on the other.
And when they cross over, as we all must do, high upon that ridge, you’ll see your precious cat running, towards you, across the Rainbow Bridge.
It’s tough to let them go. I’m fighting back tears now.
Thank you Surfer Dude for your kindness and humor. I’ve been meaning to say that – thank you
Thank you, Brian.
Thank you for your kind caring thoughts, I appreciate it
I am so sorry for so many of you who have families who either won’t or can’t leave COS…it’s so heart breaking….
My heartfelt sympathies also. We had to have our beautiful calico put down last year. We had her for 18 years – the last two, she existed on baby food and tuna juice, but she had so much heart! I can’t remember who said that giving your heart to a being whose life span is less than a quarter of your own has to lead to heartbreak – but you do it anyway – true words. We’re not ready for another cat yet – Squeaks (she squeaked when she purred as a kitten) was so special – but sometime. And I agree with Mike, one of the main problems with Scientology is how it brainwashes human feelings and reactions out of people. Disconnection couldn’t happen had that not been done.
My deepest sympathy for you as well…three decades ago we also had a “Tortie”…she was 14 & had a stroke and had to be put down…of course through the decades 3 aged dogs as well. 18 months ago as noted our male Tuxedo & now our medium haired Tuxedo who was Mama’s Girl 100%….We’ve got our 14 year old son’s cat….times is going fast for her too.
It makes me sick to know what COS does to people..all these cults work their game to their own benefit. I hope somehow, someway, someday COS is brought to it’s KNEES & that what was taken from everyone is returned.
Well, here (above) is another false assumption. I have had to bury 2 of our cats and the first one I was upset about (but had only been with us for a few months as he was a stray that found a home with us) but the 2nd one was one we had chosen from an animal home and was with us for quite a while. I was distraught abut him and shed quite a few tears as I was burying him. Our 3rd cat is still alive but over 15 and I dare say I will probably crack up when he goes on his way.
My point here is that I have had a lot (a lot) of Scientology so don’t cast the aspersion that Scientologists are unfeeling and uncaring robots. How anyone can throw in little barbs to make agenda hay (actually more like cat litter here) out of cat stories perhaps shows how bias you are? Meow!
Thank you for your sympathy & mine goes to you for the loss of your beloved pets…..and I do understand “anticipatory death”….our last cat is 14 & hanging in there, but we know what will come one day.
Pardon me but I DO have to add….Never have I said “ALL Scientologist” so for once why don’t you stop making assumptions… So many loving, kind, caring, people thinking they are doing good for the world….& in some respects they are.
Mostly it’s all about the constant money drain, paying HUGE amounts for so called …let’s say “lessons” in Scientology. Thousands of $$$$….to move UP a Bridge that in reality is the whim of some Science Fiction writer who came up with an idea on “starting a religion for PROFIT”…in HIS pocket.
Tell me once more how David M is living the “high life” with plenty of booze & great food, spending thousands to go anywhere & do anything on a WHIM while his “staff & Parishioners” are trying to scrap together a few dollars to pay for “lessons”.
I’ll save time by NOT mentioning too much about the policy known as “disconnection” that does NOT(?) exist…….& that’s why some families are torn apart because it does NOT exist…THEY choose NOT to be involved with their family who are no longer members and speak out against COS…but “it” does NOT exist…….sounds like SHUNNING or DISASSOCIATION tactics used by many CULT groups…..
I am so sorry for those who are still BLINDED BY THE LIGHT & will try to explain or defend COS until their death or old age where they are dumped by the side of the road like unwanted trash…..because there ARE NO old age homes for them to go to….but then THERE’S a new idea……
Let COS start building or turning unused buildings into Nursing/Care facilities for their “useless/ill/dying” members….then they can collect their “Social Security Check (oh wait they may not have one if they worked for COS)….or their Pension (no they don’t have one, signed over to COS)…or their Bank and Checking Account (no they don’t have that either all money goes to COS)….College Fund (nope…all $$ went to COS)
hhmmm…doesn’t sound PROFITABLE so forget it.….
I’m so very sorry for your loss. I’ve been a dog/cat lover all my life and, no matter how many wonderful four-legged companions you’ve had, it never gets any easier to lose them. They take hold of your heart and won’t let go.
Is the love you have for these beautiful animals worth the heartache when they die? Yes, it is.
You have to remember the magic and the happiness these creatures brought to you, and you to them.
These are all beautiful stories. Bodies only last so long. From what I hear from all of you, you and your furry friends were very lucky to have one another. So even if you don’t think you could have another cat after your loss, get one anyway. They need you, and seriously…I’ve personally never met a cat I didn’t like.
Sorry for your loss. My 14 year old pug passed away over two years ago and I have never really recovered from that. It was totally devastating to me.
Oh my lovely, I’m so so sorry! Huge hugs from here (and brand-new baby snuggles… she smiles now and I hear the combo is excellent for hurting hearts) and so much love to you. You’ve had one hell of a 2019 and wish I was closer to bring comfort or support in person.
I tend to be way too verbose, so I’ll shut up and just send my love, prayers and thoughts to my dear friend during such a tough time.
Thank you Jen….I am so happy to hear my little niece is doing well, growing like a beautiful flower like her mom & Big Sissy my “Nellie Belle”..
MIKE RINDER…PLEASE GIVE JENYFURR MY EMAIL ADDRESS! thank you
My heart goes out to you… The loss of a beloved pet is so hard on the soul. They leave such a hole in our lives after being such a part of the very fabric of it. I’ve had cats all my life but the one that owns me now is an 11 year old marmalade tabby who like your Mischa sleeps with me and on me. I pray he has a long life and I don’t have to say good-bye anytime soon. Sounds like your Mischa had a great life in your loving home with you and I am sure she was grateful for your care and love.
Mike,
Marty is not being “a shill for Scientology”. What happened is exactly what he
described. After years of witnessing firsthand the lies and corruption of Miscavige and his “Church”, he began to witness firsthand comparable amounts of lies and corruption from those attacking it. He had already detailed the former. He decided to do the same with the latter.
Hahahaha…
Grade … Where obtained … Ability gained
OT IX – XV … Not yet released* … Confidential until released*.
OT XVI – XXIII … Mentioned by LRH. To be released* from LRH bowels once he has reincarnated.
*Never to be released. Does not exist. Will not exist. LRH and his BTs were cremated.
added bonus:
OT I – VIII … From CoS … Mastery of advanced delusion, blockage of cognition ability to deception by self and others, likely impoverishment, arrogant self-assurance of superiority in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence.
Perfect response Mike!
My response would be to ask who won all the Emmys and who won zero Emmys and who won zero respect and zero acclaim and why do you think that is?
Or rather didn’t you mean “Aha!”
Well he certainly has improved his lifestyle since he decided to get the word out on the lies and corruption of those attacking the church. Funny how his move to a bigger, more expensive house, how his wife quit her job and opened her own business, kid has a ton of expensive toys, funny how all of this is date coincident to Marty’s attacks on the very people he had called his friends.
PS, I’d love to see if Marty has a trust fund put there to educate his son.
I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.
Really? How much do you want for it?
Yes, Marty has been so gosh-darned fair and balanced lately, the little dear!
Speaking of Brooklyn, as residents of Leah hometown would respond to your nonsense, pun unintentional:
“Oh, Puh-LEEZ!..enough already!”
Hey, Enougb Already: Pass that blunt😂😂😂
I’ve got it right here in my pocket, Mark!
Wow Enough Already, your insanity is almost equaled by your stupidity.
Alanzo? Is that you?
Seems to be
Oh, no wonder.
Captain Miscavige? Defendant Miscavige surely?
That’s my dream.
I’m waiting for the day when he will try “Emperor”.
I’m hoping for the day he will try something else that is even more outrageous causing all his dupes to just roll their eyes in disbelief and split.
Talk about cult “loaded language”
“St Hill Size”
It sounds so stupid.
David Miscavige, super-sized me.
What. Were you a little fat?
Summary of the ‘OT’ levels. Trying to rid oneself of nonexistent ‘BTs’ is a Fools errand. But, once a mark is convinced that there are ‘BTs’ (or ‘engrams’ or a ‘reactive mind’ or…what ever else Hubbard pulled out of his ass during his extensive “research”) one helluva lot of money can be made with this con. Hence the old maxim holds true, “a Fool and his money are soon parted”.
I’ll have you know that I have many BTs as friends. You just have to get to know them.
I always thought that since they eat all that beans and rice in the Sea Org, that “High Winds” was a rather unfortunate name for this magazine.
That’s why they changed the name from Break Winds.
But…but… I love breaking wind. I love the sound.
Don’t be such an old fart.
Hey! I’m only 95 years old!
There is one dreck and that is standard dreck.
I owned a Dreck once. But my wife didn’t want me playing with the Dreck. But, i do it secretly.
I once dated Shrek, but he wasn’t the right sex.
Captain Miscavage, eh? That must be the same kind of captain as Daryl Dragon. Since Toni Tennille was with him at the end of his life, I consider that love really did keep them together. We can’t say the same for Dear Leader.
Miscavage will die a slow and painfull death, my guess to be both lung cancer and cirrhosis of the liver. But hopefully, he will not die alone-I envision his long time cellmate Bubba will be at his side
I’ve read that one of the most painful ways to die occurs after suffering a bite from a Komodo Dragon. Apparently their venom is extremely poisonous – especially to humans – and it causes people to writhe in pain and tremble and shake and spit up all kinds of terrible bodily fluids.
Even OT 12’s (a super secret OT level known only to those people who have donated more than one million dollars) who can exteriorize and trans migrate to a different form on a different planet cannot escape the terrible suffering after being bitten by a Komodo Dragon.
Just sayin’ ……
Thanks for this, Mike.
A copy of this issue would be a good tool to have.
I’d like to gather a copy of any type of publication that contains the release lies. I heard that achieving Patron status of IAS was once a prerequisite, but that might not have been official.
Questions for an EO/MAA:
What type of issue lays out the requirements for release of IX and X?
What’s the distribution? (Obviously it’ll be limited distrib, confidential/ FO/ SO only) ….
It makes zero sense to have such an important thing secret, Hubbard wrote LRH EDs for this type of thing.
…
If one had copies of the changing goal posts, … It’s be fun to chance questioning along these lines.
Since BTs are the thousands of beings that attach themselves to bodies , when an OT8 dies and picks up a new body , wouldn’t this new body also come with its infestation of BTs? Always wondered about that …
It’s a ready made reg cycle. As most things in scientology!
BTs as a reg cycle?! Who have thunk it!
Nope – completely false assumption. But if you don’t do it (remove them that is) this lifetime then they will be accompanying you for a very long time. But don’t worry, Mike has stated that it is all imagination. Good luck!
Curious what they are attached to if you don’t have a body for the Body Thetans?
For the purpose of clarity, by BODY THETAN is meant a thetan who is stuck to another thetan or body but is not in control. L. Ron Hubbard
Auditing out BTs is comparable to the hunting of the snark; you need a lifetime of patience!
Except hunting for snarks is free, while hunting for BT’s can cost hunderds of thousands of dollars, and your lifeblood.
Nah, I don’t pay. I figure if the game is to free them, it might as well be free!
Double stick tape?
The buddhaists hold that the spirit can go through the after-life Bardos without resisting nor agreeing with the numerous ‘imagery’ presented to them. If the spirit resists or agrees with any specific ‘imagery’ presented then that spirit gets sucked into a life involving that particular ‘imagery’. The spirit that neither resists nor agrees is left alone after some time and utterly free to do as they wish.
To my mind, if you carry around ‘imagery’ youre likely to get attention from any quarter.
Yes, that would be nice, but is complete crap.
“Yes, that would be nice, but is complete crap.”
Provide evidence to back up your idiotic comment and prove what FPjr said is incorrect.
And queue the…
Well, prove what he states is correct! What’s good for the goose is also good for the gander eh?
…inevitable FP, in this case, no reply to this type of question because his mouth worked faster than his brain as usual and can’t provide evidence to to back up anything he spouts. If he does reply it will be one of his, oh so unexpected, evasive and petulant manchild rants and/or tantrum.
“Well, prove what he states is correct! What’s good for the goose is also good for the gander eh?”
All you have done with that petulant comment is further my point that you are an even bigger fool than you accuse others of being. You duck and weave and evade then descend into name calling and going on little rants when you are pushed.
You made the statement; “Yes, that would be nice, but is complete crap.” The onus is entirely on you to back up what you said or just be shown up, as is usual for you, the git and manchild you are.
Foolproof you are giving me inspiration to write an essay. I will credit you. And if Mike accepts it and publishes it you will be the reason I wrote it.
You are no doubt in agreement with your ‘knowingness”. And that’s the problem.
Your Scientology “knowing” is really certainty of delusional imagination. Not all of it, as some things in Scientology are true. But boy is Scientology “knowingness” a word that really represents the collapsing of objective truth with delusion.
When delusion becomes objective truth, as in all psyches are from the planet Farsec; that’s when the personality becomes like you FP.
Knowingness……….. that’s where reason gets derailed in Scientology.
Brian,
When does knowing become no-ing?
/s
FPjr
When you are in a state of denial.
Or in a state of intelligent differentiation and seeing that which one “knows” is found to be false through self inquiry, analysis and brutal self honesty.
Then we say ‘no” to make believe, and label it as it is: wrong knowledge.
Foolproof is really a mini Hubbard. And like Hubbard, he degrades all other views but his own.
And like Hubbard, he derives a sense of self value by deriding the worth of others.
I think you are a narcissist FP. So far everyone has been wrong and you are the only one who is right. You only agree when you are agreed with.
Your thoughts are fixed like Hubbard’s. Your certainty is based on degrading and devaluing others. That was Hubbard’s trait. You are a good student.
And yet I am called more names under the sun here by you and others. Something actually i rarely engage in but do so when given the license of insult from others. It is always amazing that I am accused of what goes on here all the time.
“And yet I am called more names under the sun here by you and others.”
Usually after you start using insulting nicknames, Brain for Brian for instance, on more than one occasion, ring any bells? I don’t seem to recall Brian using insulting nicknames for you yet you do it when he gets you wound up. You can do the checking to see if Brian has been horrible to you up and set me straight because it’s so tiresome having to bother with such trivialities.
“Something actually i rarely engage in but do so when given the license of insult from others.”
Spell check; it’s “I” and yes, I did it on purpose. What a crap laden justification for why you use insults. Singular lack of control and maturity even for a supposed super-dooper Independent Scamologist, hm?
The LRH tape “ANATOMY OF THE THETA BODY” 1952, is the reference you need, which actually also details or starts to describe the NOTs case – in 1952! The answer to your question is of course “no”. They come along with the thetan at birth if you listen to the tape, and not with every new body. There is not a horde of BTs awaiting every new birth which you would then need to audit off every lifetime, this is a complete fallacy. So “body thetan” as such is actually a slight misnomer although admittedly difficult (even for LRH) to find a suitable and/or less restimulative name or term otherwise.
Ok now?
So his later HCOB defining BTs is wrong and his lecture from the History of Man Piltdown Man era is right?
You have really outdone yourself with this one…
Oh! Ok. No, I haven’t. “On the time track BTs were lied to and told they were being built to a body – they have nothing to do with the body track at all, except to sit in or on the body.” – from later material. But of course you have to think a bit as to why it has been arranged this way and not just assume from your first glance at the material. Bit like the usual misunderstanding on OTIII that one’s body is composed of them, which as I say is a quite usual MisU on OTIII.
And there is no need to bolster your argument with what you think is a silly put-down.
I’ve never been in but I’m just curious if it would be possible for me to become one of Leah’s body thetans?
Foolproof, I believe you’ve chosen a “nicklname” which clearly demonstrates how much you’ve been fooled. “KnowItAll” would have been closer to the mark.
When I did OTIII, my cog was “Christ, I’m running LRH’s case!” Instant dial wide F/N. I attested to the level (of course using a different cognition) was sent happily on my way. The F/N, btw, lasted for well over three months. So much for the OT levels. LOL
OMG! How amazing! Where did you do your OTIII? I must go there immediately and recant all of my very good wins! CHRIST!
Seriously -are you trying to impress people with your seeming astuteness and cleverness? If you have actually done (or rather not done) what you stated you realize that this is even worse (for you) than what Back Porch Brian did with his “OTIII” – at least he ran it for 3 weeks albeit without a meter and no previous Grades, let alone Clear. Perhaps the word “KnowItAll” is better directed in your direction! And do tell at which delivery centre you did this – we need to know this to be able to route people like you there.
But then you a) probably didn’t do anything of the sort and b) had no prior auditing or grades and is not even Clear c) both a and b, d) doesn’t make any case gain anyway, and e) all of which are quite likely eh?
Anyone who has done the level properly scoffs at your nonsense. Why don’t you try George’s April Fool’s version of “New OTVIII”, you can run those processes wrongly and you are in for a surprise when you do! Well, according to George anyway…
Hold on a second there Mr. Auditor extraordinaire and expert on application of all things “standard tech”:
1. The meter never lies
2. You never invalidate the gains of the pre-OT.
If “running Hubbard’s case” was the right indication for him, how, as a good scientologist can you dispute this especially when the meter confirmed it?
And it he seems he inadvertently also attained the EP of OT VIII. One’s case is NOT one’s own… It’s ALL misassigned ownership.
Eh what Foolproof?
Perhaps you are not such a good scientologist after all?
You’re not serious? Read the C/ S Series. I realise that you feel compelled to defend some of the looney comments on here with a load of attempting deflective waffle but really it would best for you not to do so in these cases.
Am I serious?
You can’t tell…
And that tells you everything you need to know about the precision of the tech….
You squirmed out of that one well Mike. Applause!
I knew that there would never be an OT IX and OT X when I finished the original OT VIII on the Freewinds in 1988. Hubbard was so confused. He claimed that auditing is all wrong because he never audited the GE. He claimed that he will return as the anti-Christ to usher in the “golden age of Scientology”. No room for Miscavige or anyone else. When I got on the Scientology Message Board in 2008 and announced that Hubbard had trashed Scientology, the outcry was so intense they had to shut down the thread. But look at Hubbard’s history. He crushed anyone who even came close to being leader. It is ironic that Hubbard wanted “genetically pure” bodies out of the OT VIII’s so that he could be born into a clean line. This is not a sane man talking about Scientology and its future. It is obvious that he was a massive ego trying to continue his influence.
George, I think it is El Con’s OT 8 that caused the then Snr. C/S Int to leave Scientology. I could be wrong, it could be that he just got to know Miss Cabbage and knew the game was over…
I DO know that the Snr. OT VIII C/S had misgivings before the Maiden Voyage and release of the level.
I do remember that the then senior C/S was under a lot of pressure before the Maiden Voyage and after the release. In my opinion, OTVIII’s were not prepared for the level. The briefings were very simple. “History of Man is you textbook. “Read 08,880, and 88008. Know the PDC’s. Nothing prepared us for the anti-Christ or the auditing of the GE. It might have been Mithoff but I am not certain. Miscavige had a bird. I met him on the Freewinds after OT VIII. He did not know what to make of a completion with no complaints. He could not even speak to me.
George, Hubtard left almost no material about 8. That makes sense as he himself was still trying to pick space cooties out of his naval and wasn’t ready to do it himself. I mean it didn’t result in ones amnesia on the whole track being handled as promised. None of the objective claims he made for his tek were true though. So par for the course. Jeff Walker was the Snr. C/S who left at that time. Mike might know what went down with that as I’m sure the incident was considered a possible legal/PR problem…
The pressure to put out OT VIII after Hubbard died was intense. Someone reported that the origin of the OT VIII material was on the CLASS VIIII auditor course. They probably just transferred it and made up the level to please people. It was given to me on the Freewinds on the OT VIII level.
George, I bet the Young Guns of Scientology thought that they could spin out new “tech” after Hubbard died, the way that Hubbard himself himself had continually come up with “latest, greatest” type introductions. I think it has to be considered from the perspective of the time, not all the subsequent history that has brought us to where we are now.
Miscavige of course found out that it wasn’t that easy, probably because there was no one left with either the knack or the charisma to pull off what Hubbard had. Eventually he figured out to stick to claiming that cleaning up commas and semicolons would result in the “latest, greatest” – that relies on placebo affect, and the faith of the foolish, without much risk.
OT IX & OTX … and beyond
The big OT (= Operating Thetan)* Hubbard was not even causative enough “to go exterior” and “end cycle” or “drop the body” by himself but was pushing his longtime servant Sarge to build him a suicide device with which he wanted to electrocute himself.
He was trying to get rid of his BTs (= Body Thetans)** for years and years and in his psychotic delusions still fighting and trying to get rid of them till the very end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20nvdIzZbd4
* Hubbard’s definition of Operating Thetan: “Knowing and willing cause over life, thought, matter, energy, space and time”.
** Body Thetan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_thetan
(also: https://www.mikerindersblog.org/bts-in-the-belfry/ )
This bogus version of OTVIII that somehow miraculously got off the ship has a little clause in it that one will “spontaneously combust” if one gets the “processes” wrong (the processes were also a mish-mash and disappeared when people saw how ridiculous they were). Now George wants people to believe this ridiculous shit! And some of you nincompoops actually believe this nonsense?
Can you tell me why this is so ridiculous when compared to the idea that premature exposure to the story of OT III will cause you to die? Don’t the consequences have to increase as one gets higher?
I offer no opinion here on the validity of anything — just a simple question.
The simple answer: if the pneumonia don’t get ya, the combustion surely will. Hope that helps. 😂
If Foolproof ever considered that the Lucifer OT8 was true, he may need a Doctor. The shock would destroy the very foundation of his being.
And that’s bad how?
Ha ha! Indeed OSD. It’s a good thing indeed!
I know personally of 2 people who were exposed to this material (OTIII) with no previous auditing and went for a spin. One is still suffering (badly) from it, the other I don’t know about anymore. It is all very well for you and others to glibly state what you say and blithely remark like Brain does that he “didn’t get pneumonia” and like Scribe facetiously mutters below, but some people are damaged because web sites like yours publish this material in order to forward whatever agenda you have.
So tell us Mike, without deflection or whatever, do you believe that one could “spontaneously combust” by running the so-called OTVIII processes wrong?
It seems you are not so much interested in the truth of the matter but obfuscate and deflect in favour of your cohorts on here, by that action of (your favourite phrase of) “what aboutism”! You always make out that you don’t really know, and take a sort of pretended neutral stance, but you do know, don’t you.
You have one anecdotal example of someone who “went for a spin” — maybe it was because the material was crazy? I dont know. But to your one case, there are tens if not hundreds of thousands or perhaps even millions who have read the OT III story and suffered not a bit… No epidemics of deadly influenza anywhere.
To answer your question simply. No, of course I do NOT believe AT ALL that one could “spontaneously combust” by running the so-called OT VIII processes wrong. Not remotely. Not even a mild sunburn.
But that proves absolutely nothing. I also don’t believe you can die from reading OT III. Does that mean OT III is not the real thing written by Hubbard? Because he DID say that…
You are completely missing the point. You think it is just too insane for Hubbard to say that you could spontaneously combust. But Hubbard has said an ENORMOUS number of completely ludicrous things (you don’t need a list do you?) and those ARE things he wrote. OT III is just ONE example.
Your argument is so flawed I am surprised even you can’t see it.
It’s like arguing that Richard Pryor could never have told a joke about setting himself on fire taking drugs “because can you ever imagine Richard Pryor saying anything as outrageous as that — see it proves he didn’t say it.”
You are absolutely crackers Foolproof. So bent on trying to protect the “good name” of L. Ron Hubbard at all costs that you did a Tommy Davis “Hey, if what he said about being blinded and wounded in the war is not true then all of Dianetics and Scientology is based on a lie…”
Cough, cough.
PS: as for deflection, you didn’t respond to MY point about OT III and how that is any less unbelievable than spontaneously combusting? Both assert these things are so dangerous they can kill you, it’s only a matter of method.
You’re waffling and deflecting and looking for an excuse with a barrage of verbiage to the simple point I made above.
I like waffling waffles.
We are looney FP. We try to talk sense with you. And somehow you do not see how you embarrass yourself. There is not one person hear who sees the sense in your words.
You enturbulate no one. We all feel sorry for you. And maybe a bit of pity.
Mike lets you continue because you are an example of Scientology insanity FP. That is all you represent here for the hundreds if not thousands who pass through this site.
You are aversion therapy: FP is an example of your mind on Scientology.
Are there positive things that can be had in Scientology? Absolutely.
Unfortunately you have not demonstrated that you have achieved the positive things in it.
You represent the worst. And that is why you are allowed to be here.
Mike, FP ALWAYS has to use anecdotal evidence because he knows full well that he has nothing that can be vaguely construed as concrete proof to back his claims. As to getting straight and unequivocal answers to questions put to him…well, we’ve seen what happens time after time.
Alas Kronomex, he’s the proven fool.
Amazing that when I state something then that it is “anecdotal evidence” – and yet when I mentioned that in about 70 years of Scientology history you could only come up with a few actual “anecdotal” court cases where Scientology was proved to be in the wrong. And because I stated the small amount of these cases you retorted “one is enough”. And so then are my 2 people mentioned above not “enough”? And that is just the people I know personally and I have been off lines for decades. You are cutting your coat to suit your agenda’s cloth.
Again with the illogic. One person who “spun” (didn’t die) vs thousands who had no effect. Don’t even know what court cases you are referring to? Do you mean trials? The outcome of Christofferson, Wollersheim, NN NorCal, Yanny case, Armstrong (the only trials I am familiar with — enlighten me if you know of others) is not anecdotal. It is simply a statement of fact. 5 trials all horrific outcomes for scientology. No positive outcomes.
I think you have a misunderstood on “anecdotal” among other things. Perhaps also “case” and “trial.”
Maybe “logic”…
Foolproof, here’s more anecdotal evidence to the contrary of your claim about non-OTs reading the OT III story and getting pneumonia:
I am not OTIII (not even Clear, actually) and I’ve known the OTIII story for 8 years.
Not only have I not gotten pneumonia (I’ve never had pneumonia by the way) but the last cold – consisting of some nasal congestion and a slight fever for a day or so – was 5 years ago. I happen to be ridiculously healthy and I don’t take any medication, even OTC stuff like aspirin, because I never get headaches.
The concept that one must not read the OTIII story before being on OTIII is IMO on a par with how, back in Christopher Colombus’ time, people were scared to sail the oceans because they were told the world was flat and they’d fall off into the void, OR that there were monsters and dragons and other creatures in the ocean – that sort of nonsense.
People believed all kinds of rubbish in those days and today one still finds ignorant, credulous people preyed on because of their irrational fears.
When I was in I didn’t read the OTIII story because I wanted to do my courses and auditing actions correctly. Of course, the datum that I could get pneumonia cinched it for me as I was ignorant; I didn’t know what the story WAS. This is just ignorance and today I laugh at myself about it.
From my viewpoint, if anyone reads the OTIII story and THEN simply proceeds to contracting PNEUMONIA, his or her immune system was seriously weak and at risk for disease ANYWAY, and something else could just as well have stressed them to the point where’s they’d get seriously ill.
Firstly I never mentioned anything about pneumonia. I stated that 2 people I knew had spun.
Secondly, when I mentioned that in 70 years of Scientology history there had only been a few cases where Scientology had had to answer in law I was told “one is enough”. And yet I could now also use the same language on this topic and am upbraided and criticised for it. Double standards prevailing eh?
Thirdly, you (and others) are assuming that because such did not happen to you, then it hasn’t happened to others, but as I related – I know 2 persons affected from my limited amount of contacts and I have also been off lines for decades. We don’t know how it has affected the probably thousands of others who have read it. So your statement is rather trite.
The upshot of it is is that sites that publish this are effectively saying “we don’t give a shit who is damaged by this, we just want to ridicule the whole subject!” Usually followed by the trite observation that my observation is “anecdotal” – notwithstanding the fact or assumption that the lack of evidence that it is not harmful is not even that – anecdotal that is, as those that may have spun have never been reported about. So we can just throw those 2 persons that I know of who have been damaged to the wind as “casualties of war” eh?
No pneumonia. No deaths. But still you try to hold the line that Ron was right. I know 2 people who spun from doing objectives. So is this proof Objectives are dangerous?
You ignored my question about how claiming you can die from pneumonia from exposure to OTIII is so different from death by spontaneous combustion on OT VIII? Why is it ridiculous to think Hubbard could have written that you die one way when he said you would die a different way and this is “proof” he didn’t write it?
Ha! Your question is a deflection on behalf of your silly friends. You are very cleverly covering up the difference between dying from pneumonia which many people do and dying from spontaneous combustion of which there are no actual provable cases and the whole concept is just theory, although I dare say that Peacemaker will now weigh in with a long tome on spontaneous combustion. And we simply don’t know if people have been affected or rather died from pneumonia etc. from reading it. Alright, one of the people I know, a relative of a friend, has been institutionalised because of it – so that’s alright then?
So Mike you’ve obviously run OTIII, tell us what happened when you did? And my question for you about the New OTVIII – do you seriously believe that such is from LRH – no quibbling or waffling!
But I really don’t want to argue about this daft bogus New OTVIII anymore.
Mike, I am curious about this dude who is repeatedly and desperately trying to post stuff (to my comments) about Scientology’s legal stance as a religion based on what I state, which you are obviously not letting through, probably for the obvious reason that he is a looney and religious zealot. But does he know that I am a not a Church official?
And perhaps you could set up your site so only comments that are allowed and thus posted would create a reply to an original comment that people receive in their mail boxes? Save us all a bit of time, although it is mildly funny sometimes, reading such stuff.
I have no clue what you are talking about…
Foolproof,
I’ll grant you that because I’m healthy I tend to think that because something doesn’t harm me it couldn’t or shouldn’t harm others.
And what you point out is true insofar as we don’t have data on the effects that might have been created of possibly thousands of people. That data is missing.
I’ll also grant you that the way my communication was phrased it could be construed to mean that I consider the two people you know who were harmed by reading the OTIII story prematurely were, or are, “expendable”. Now, I did not intend to convey that impression at all because I believe that no lives are expendable, but reading over what I wrote and the way I banged it out with no editing I can see how that impression was conveyed.
What I wrote was meant to convey one sole point, and its my opinion, that’s all:
That the people who were harmed – people you know or knew who claimed they were harmed (spun in) by reading the OTIII story were very possibly highly susceptible to be spun in by anything.
There is missing data about these two people.
How physically healthy were they BEFORE they read the story? Did they have chronic physical pain or some other not-handled physical condition that weakened their immune system? And very key: How MENTALLY healthy were they BEFORE reading the story?
I would consider this pertinent information to be factored into any diagnosis of why they spun in.
About 25 years ago there was a popular movie in which 2 kids lay down in a street with traffic coming. Not long afterwards 2 kids who had seen this movie did this FOR REAL and died. Now, what would you say about these kids? Would you consider them mentally balanced, to copycat something they saw in a movie that clearly put them at extreme risk for being roadkill? I’d say both of them were not shooting from all guns. But never mind, there was a HUGE backlash against this movie – people were up in arms – this sort of thing should not be shown, 2 young lives were lost because of this movie, etc. etc. Now, am I saying that these two kids’ lives were EXPENDABLE? NOOOOO. I’m saying – opining – that these two were highly SUSCEPTIBLE, mentally vulnerable in some way.
Is it POSSIBLE that the two people you knew who spun in as they did were ALSO highly susceptible and that SOMETHING ELSE could have spun them in and made them go off the deep end mentally if it wasn’t the OT III story?
Respectfully, you must acknowledge that there is a great deal of missing data in your anecdote about these two people you knew.
Nope, neither of them had any adverse history beforehand. They weren’t even Scientologists. Aqua, I realise that you are at least trying to be fair on this but you do see what you have just written (again) is somewhat of a justification? “Oh! They were perhaps susceptible anyway so…” That is exactly the point as to why Ad Course materials should not have been opened to the light of day. Whether they are susceptible or not is again not the point. You are advocating or justifying a sort of Russian Roulette and that one shouldn’t feel responsible if 5 of the chambers are empty and 1 isn’t – it’s just “bad luck”.
The other factor on this is that most of the people going on about them have had no previous auditing and haven’t got a clue as to what they are talking about anyway. And fortunately (for) those who claim to have done it and criticise it afterwards have – one-for-one as I have seen on here, altered, misduplicated and misapplied the materials and so they skirt over the meat of the subject. They are lucky, that’s all.
The most usual logic error made by those who lack an education and who have been trained to NOT think.
Correlation does not imply causation.
A MAJOR reason why Hubtard didn’t want any of his flock to be educated above a 4th or 5th grade level.
@FP, if what you suggest is true there would arguably be major spikes in hospitalisations (eg. affective psychosis, reactive psychosis, episodic mood disorders, etc) following major OTIII exposès. A quick analysis shows no such evidence.
Take South Park, for example. First aired in late 2005. You’d think there’d be something to show for it. Yet stats for all ICD codes for psychosis and psychotic-related disorders are down for both 2005 and 2006. There’s not even a blip. Why do you suppose that is?
Ref: https://hcupnet.ahrq.gov
Foolproof says
August 23, 2019 at 4:46 am.
First it was, “I know personally of 2 people who were exposed to this material (OTIII) with no previous auditing and went for a spin.”
And all of a sudden it has become, “They weren’t even Scientologists.”
You really expect anyone to believe your bullshit when it changes from comment to comment? You come close to outdoing Baron Munchausen with the fantasies you spin. The miasma of desperation that oozes from you as you try to keep $camology and yourself relevant is sickening. I expect your almost inevitable reply will be full of your usual bile as you work yourself into a seething frenzy of acrimony. Boil away little bubble of anger, boil away.
Then again you might prove me wrong, but somehow…
Well, I don’t need to prove you wrong – you do that yourself as obviously you can’t see that there is actually no discrepancy between the 2 statements. In your haste to denigrate and vent your chagrin again you launch into a huge tirade and your embarrassing failure to duplicate is now there for all the world to see. It is fortunate that you have excluded yourself from Scientology as it has no doubt saved course supervisors a huge amount of time with trying to make you understand anything. I suggest you stop embarrassing yourself.
Are you really so blind that you can’t see that you are digging yourself into a hole that will eventually collapse in on you? You duck and weave and dodge and prove, yet again, that you have no real answers to any questions put to you. Just petulance.
“Well, I don’t need to prove you wrong – you do that yourself as obviously you can’t see that there is actually no discrepancy between the 2 statements.”
I will repeat again,
First it was, “I know personally of 2 people who were exposed to this material (OTIII) with no previous auditing and went for a spin.”
And all of a sudden it has become, “They weren’t even Scientologists.” Stick with one story and stop changing it to suit yourself. They either were or were not $camologists.
Yes, you do need to prove me wrong. How did these two people get ahold of the OTIII material in the first place if “They weren’t even Scientologists.” Did the material they look at also include the following crazed pulp ravings of O’Tard?
” The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here) (founded 95,000,000 years ago, very space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet – 178 billion on average) by mass implanting..
He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the principal volcanos (incident II) and then the Pacific area ones were taken – in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic area ones to Las Palmas and there “packaged”.
His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc was placed in the unplants. When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people) captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic mountain trap where he still is. “They” are gone. The place (Confederation) has since been a desert.
The length and brutality of it all was such that this Confederation never recovered. The implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it. This liability has been dispensed with by my tech development. One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is approached as precisely outlined. The “freewheel” (auto-running on and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc and one dies. So be careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plow around and fail to complete one thetan at a time.
In December 1967 1 know someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful.
One’s body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or to the body.
One has to clean them off by running incident II and Incident I. It is a long job, requiring care, patience and good auditing.
You are running beings. They respond like any preclear. Some large, some small.
Thetans believed they were one. This is the primary error.
Good luck.”
Once more I expect I will get nothing relevant from you in reply although it will rather be intriguing as to how you spin your “reply.”
He still doesn’t get it. Can someone help him out, to put him out of his misconceived misery? A clay demo? Demo kit? Dictionary?
“He still doesn’t get it. Can someone help him out, to put him out of his misconceived misery? A clay demo? Demo kit? Dictionary?” Don’t try and rope others in to try and explain what what you personally should be doing, that can be construed as an act of intellectual cowardice and sheer laziness. Then again, you always run away don’t you?
Once again you prove my point that you won’t give an answer or explanation that has any relevance to questions put to you. You just go on being the petulant and increasingly angry little man you are. That’s alright, (pats FP gently on the head) you go and put on your O’Tard pyjamas and climb under your O’Tard sheets and blankets and hug your lifesize O’Tard doll and dream of the brutal and blistering things you want to say to all the nasty people that keep calling you out for the quacksalver you are.
Tomorrow is another day for you continue squirming, twisting, ducking, weaving, and avoiding.
Haha! This has got to be a Guinness book of records record for the longest running set of comments where one dude has a complete misunderstanding obvious to everyone but himself in his lust to be right and make wrong. Now normally if he (she?) were someone nice or fair(er) like Aqua or Cindy I might put him out of his misery and painstakingly explain it to him, but as I am regaled with a barrage of entheta from him, as well as him “nicely” quoting part of the OTIII materials, please carry on Kronomex making a fool of yourself! I might even open a book (bet) on him as to will he carry on doing so? 4-1? The bets are rolling in already.
“Foolproof says
August 24, 2019 at 5:14 am
Haha! This has got to be a Guinness book of records record for the longest running set of comments where one dude has a complete misunderstanding obvious to everyone but himself in his lust to be right and make wrong. Now normally if he (she?) were someone nice or fair(er) like Aqua or Cindy I might put him out of his misery and painstakingly explain it to him, but as I am regaled with a barrage of entheta from him, as well as him “nicely” quoting part of the OTIII materials, please carry on Kronomex making a fool of yourself! I might even open a book (bet) on him as to will he carry on doing so? 4-1? The bets are rolling in already.”
Sigh. As is expected, yet another duck and dodge petulant nonanswewr from you. Pitiful even for your low standards and can only mean your frustration levels are rising as you become more and more annoyed that someone is taking you to task for your bs. How about surprising me and answering the questions I put to you? Will you? Not very likely given your track record.
“…I might even open a book (bet) on him as to will he carry on doing so? 4-1? The bets are rolling in already.”” So the bets are rolling in already are they? How can they be rolling in if you are only considering opening a book (bet)? Make up your mind you clown!
“…please carry on Kronomex making a fool of yourself!” The best part of this is that you are an even bigger fool than you make me out to be because you keep on biting and when you get worked up you tend to repeat your short list of insults, with the ever popular phrase “fool” topping the list. So in keeping with the fool motif; if this was a race to see which person was the biggest fool you would consistently keep beating me into first place.
You are that rarest of creatures, a phoenix oozlum bird so be proud of that because you are one of a kind.
Haha! He still doesn’t get it! I would have thought one or more of your fellow suppressives (LOL!) like George, Brian or Wynski would have stepped in by now to point out your mistake, but it seems they are just hoping you will go away and Mike has a stat of “number of words commented” which he reports to A-E TV every week so it seems you won’t get any help from that quarter either.
No, no, you carry on – it’s a laugh a minute here! Even Ed Parkin and OSA must be chuckling about this. Mike, can’t you install a “riff-raff” or dunderhead filter to nip this sort of thing in the bud?
Anyway, hang on, I’ve got even more bets flooding in here… odds are at 1-2 now!
If I installed a dunderhead filter FP you would be its first victim…
Foolproof,
I have nothing at all to gain by making up the OT VIII story with Hubbard as the anti-Christ. Why would I waste my time? I have a great deal to lose if I am making it all up.
Conversely, I have a great deal to gain by telling the truth. I have nothing to lose.
Why would I waste my time trying to convince a few people on the basis of a lie?
It makes no sense. Since it is the truth, I tell it.
Telling Foolproof that the Lucifer OT8 is true is like telling fundamentalist closed minded “Christian” that Jesus was Satan and Buddha is God.
He has too much investment in delusion to consider the possibility. It would destroy his faith and hope.
Not to mention his “knowingness”
Been thinking about van essay on Hubbard’s concept of knowingness.
The word “know” in Scientology is really certainty of “imagination”
Do I detect your Freudian slip here of your purpose in making such comments – the bit about “destroying faith and hope” in others? Try the FPRD without a meter on your back porch to handle this – do you the world of good!
Well, George you are selling a little pamphlet book exactly on this subject, are you not? How are the sales going?
George, you are an anti-Scientologist (now) and as such will forward the most ridiculous stories to forward your agenda.
There’s 2 answers to your question.
Now how about this “spontaneous combustion” theme? Did you believe that?
Never believed “spontaneous combustion” . But I have mentioned to you at least five times that my FSM was terrified of it.
George, this is Dawn who exchanged emails with you. I think Foolproof is Marildi who wrote lots of the same types of posts over at Marty’s Blog.
Dawn – I’ve had many conversations with marildi over the last four years on the blogs and she’s definitely NOT Foolproof – lol. As of about three months ago she’s been studying Enneagram which is an examination of basic personality types which I also find interesting. I’m a “Type 5”. 🙂
https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions
Dawn, marildi is a more calculating insane person. Although she IS exceedingly stupid. She didn’t know that others on this blog could read her earlier posts in a thread she continued to post on and as she lied had to keep changing her position from statements she made 5 minutes prior.
They are both useful idiots for the CoS
Foolproof said: “George, you are an anti-Scientologist ….”
As we all know, there are only 3 types of people in the world: 1) Scientologist; 2) Anti-Scientologist; 3) Wog. /sarcasm
Foolproof, can you explain why Hubtard left a “bogus version of OT 8” to deliver. Just curious what your hallucinations tell you to type as you were not privy to ANY data about the materials he left nor the instructions he gave Snr C/S Int Office. So ANYTHING you say on the subject is de facto made up lies.
He didn’t. Whether DM knocked it up for whatever reason he had to do so – perhaps to see how daft people were, or some other idiot invented it, I don’t know, but all one has to do is read it and it is the biggest load of rubbish ever seen.
I tell you what Wyn, why don’t you try and run the “processes” that went along with it, but run them wrongly (as you would do anyway), and let us know if you spontaneously combust. Sounds a fair deal eh? Would make you and George right eh?
(Actually I cannot believe I am discussing the validity of this shit – my friends have told me I am wasting my time. It seems I am.)
Interesting hallucination or just made up lies. Why do you do that? Is it some compulsion or do you think that by making up stuff you are improving your lot? Do you want the name of a mental health professional?
Foolproof. Just a note of interest to me. A while ago I asked ten OT8s if they had achieved ‘the solution to whole track amnesia’. They all answered ‘no’. It was a simple survey, a simple test.
LRH said they would achieve this on OT8. They didn’t.
I figured something was a bit off here, to put it mildly, and decided to go no further on the bridge.
You don’t have to rail against George and the original OT8 to know it’s a mess within the church.
I asked a Ron’s Org Indy if they had whole track recall. They didn’t. They were on their version of OT IX.
Just simple observations with no judgement of the rightness or wrongness of those who are doing those levels.
Yes, no actual and full OT Levels have been released. The (actual – not George’s silly April Fool’s version) )New OTVIII that was/is done I am told was a minor part of the actual and unreleased as yet original OT8 (still a pretty good process though and many have reported excellent gains on it). The earlier OT Levels (4,5,6, and 7) founded on the rocks of NOTs. I know, I did old OT7 and the abilities lasted for a while.
Asking for information from Ron’s Org people about OT levels is a waste of time.
And who were the “10” OT8s you asked? Or was that just made up to bolster whatever argument you are making here?
Ok now?
You’re pretty quick in allowing these posts through on this subject Mike! Less than a minute or so! Don’t tell me, you’re harbouring thoughts about getting back on to your NOTs? If so, I can recommend a few good auditors.
I happen to be sitting at my desk after dinner.
And you are endlessly entertaining in a morbid sort of train wreck fashion.
Haha! Trains are part of OTIII!
You mean they’re not?
Foolproof,
I find that my intentions still work when I am acting from above Tone 20(action), completely pan-determined, and as a single source. It feels so good that I work at staying in that groove as much as possible.
Wishing you the best.
Also, did Marty take a payoff to become a Miscabbage stooge once more? What happened there?
MarcAnon I will answer your question with a question. Why did Marty shut down the litigation against the CoS that was free for him and was gong pretty well?
Good point. Why did Marty shut down the litigation against the CofS that was free for him and was going pretty well?
And stiff the lawyers? Even if HE didn’t want any money as some have claimed.
Mike, it’s not like he had stiffed any other people who tried helping him… That would be SO unlike Marty.
I’m guessing that they waved enough money in front of him to change his mind about Scn.
MarcAnon, your answer would comply with Occam’s razor.
Hey Mike, The Auditor Update Service should handle any and all out-tech and speed the delivery of OT IX & X, just as Ray is pointing out to us. Ray?
Must admit Scribe, it made me laugh!
He’s good at that.
Even if one balks at Miscabbage and where he’s lead the “church” after his coup took it away from his chosen successors, you can’t ignore the fact that LRH had numerous health issues in contradiction to his own statements about Clears and OTs not dealing with such problems.
The fact that LRH died of a stroke, alone, insane, and with psychiatric drugs in his system should tell everyone – the clubbed seals and the squirrels – all they need to know about the truth of this man’s claims.
Maybe Ron was just bogged on OT22 and there was no one to audit him on the correction list … (but more probably, it was just his overts stacking up).
That’s been my problem for eons! OT 22 has been my toughest level yet. But, I heard that OT23 is coming “very soon!” And that will solve EVERYTHING! I’ve never been so excited in my life! Now I can leave my body! The money I paid is well worth it!
MarcAnon, Hubtard didn’t leave any “chosen successors”. Also church members are taught to ignore data from Hubtard’s enemies.
Actually the so-called psychiatric drug that was found was in his body for another (medical) reason, so I read on a less insane web site.
Will this help to make this a less insane website? An actual description of the function of Vistaril.
Vistaril (hydroxyzine) reduces activity in the central nervous system. It also acts as an antihistamine that reduces the effects of natural chemical histamine in the body. Histamine can produce symptoms of itching, or hives on the skin. Vistaril is used as a sedative to treat anxiety and tension.
Hubbard, along with his strokes, did have pancreatitis. And Vistaril can be used to treat pancreatitis. This is how the presence of the drug was explained.
But arguing about what it was treating is missing the forest for the trees.
Surely a condition such as pancreatitis should respond to Dianetics auditing? Or NOTs auditing? Or a PTS handling?
How come he needed a drug like this at all if he was at the highest levels of OT research?
Mike please, no tough questions!
Pussy!!!
I was being nice to Foolproof dude!
Ouch! My bad!
Thanks for that info on Vistaril, Mike. When my mom was on hospice and dying, they gave her a drug for anxiety. The hear nurse told me it is pretty much standard to give some kind of anti-anxiety drug along with morphine (if needed) on hospice patients because dying is a scary and stressful idea to grapple with for most people, even the most religious ones. She even told us not to say things like, “It’s OK to go” and “go now” as in drop the body, because she said this stresses patients out even more.
Correction, that should read, “the head nurse told me…”
You know how to know who the head nurse is: dirty knees.
Ah! So, thank you for the correct information. So why don’t you mention that when someone on your web site states he was stuffed full of “psych” drugs?
I think you have missed the point on the OT Levels – they are , er, not designed to make the body immortal. And er, bodies wear out… Quite simple in the end eh?
So, past what age is Dianetics or NOTs or PTS handling no longer the valid therapy and it’s just “worn out bodies”?
Seems like this is the excuse that is offered when the tech doesn’t work… Even on Hubbard himself.
He was only 75 which is 3 years LESS than the average life expectancy of a man in the US?
Well, I’m just going to pile on here and rhetorically ask why it is that so many 7’s and 8s are in such poor health?
Isn’t the EP of 7 “Cause Over Life?”
IF that IS the EP of 7, and one IS now “cause over life”, would that mean that an unhealthy, chronically sick or disabled OT 7 or 8 has CHOSEN to be that way? Because he/she IS, purportedly, now “Cause” over life.
Also, while we’re on the subject of the EP of 7, are the financially strapped 7’s I know CHOOSING to be poor or low income?
Kirstie Alley is OT7 and still blubbering about having to lose weight and having to find her Soul Mate. Are these her CHOICES? Despite her OT7 power over MEST (Matter, Energy, Space and Time, all part of “life” as in “Cause over”) despite what are her awesome abilities to change conditions does she still choose to be fat and lonely?
Or, can this ALL be chalked up to Out Tech that Savior Miscavige will one day spot and begin to remedy, LOL?
Unenlightened minds would love to be enlightened 🙂
How is it foolproof is so incredibly uninformed?
http://www.xenu.net/archive/hubbardcoroner/
* Coroner’s Report
* Toxicology Report
* Death Certificate
* Robert Vaughn Young recalls the death of LRH
Much more on LRH demise:
http://www.xenu-directory.net/topics/hubbardsdeath.html
Ron the Doped Corpse:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/ronthenut/corpse.htm
See above. Not so misinformed after all eh? But your’s and others’ bias made you so.
“Actually the so-called psychiatric drug that was found was in his body for another (medical) reason, so I read on a less insane web site.” Then why didn’t you provide the link to the site in the first place? Sheer laziness on your part and there’s the more than a touch of spitefulness in your replies to anyone who went and found the information that you very sadly neglected to mention . I can picture a research paper by you when it comes to the attributions and references; “I saw it on a web site.”
You really can’t stand the idea of being called out for the fraud you are can you? It cuts into your superiority complex and that hurts doesn’t it? You are almost pitiful in your behaviour which usually involves dragging any conversation down to the (almost gutter) level where you feel strong and intellectually superior to the commoners that you deign to inflict your “wisdom” and “knowledge” upon.
Coming soon, the…
No, quite simple because I knew someone else would or might have the link, I’d not saved it. So, now, now that the true data has come out, the best you can accuse me of being lazy! As to spite, I suggest you look at the tone and content of your comment which is like a small child stamping his feet – one of his cherished entheta ideas has been found to be nonsense and he is “upset”. Awwwww!
Another childish temper tantrum and rant from a fool who can’t stomach the idea of being called out. Thank you for bolstering my points about you.
The last still in clubbed seals are probably literally dying trying to be right till the end.Blub.eh, thas was Scientology finally stopping circling the drain.
Mike, it’d be nice if you had a moderator have the originator review their own comments before posting, or at least bring back the edit function.
I don’t know what it takes to provide a Preview/Edit function for the Comments section. I’m just happy to be able to blow my horn every once in awhile. But I’ve had to start writing all my comments in a word doc, polishing them, then pasting into the actual Comment box once ‘perfected’. I still miss things, realize I would like to edit something, etc, but at least the method provides for some pre-post editing.
👍
I miss the notifications more than anything!
Well, I’m sorry. But I do post here every day, usually sometime in the morning…. So you can check in daily. 🙂
Can you just wake me up?
Roger that, Ammo.
Can I get a box of ammo?
All this trouble, just to write a lot of nonsense!
Yeah…it’s tough being you.
FTW! OSD
Must be tough being you.
It’s tougher defending Hubbard.
Now that’s tough!