This is an ideal org?
I thought they were supposed to go into instant “straight up vertical” expansion? Phoenix was opened in June 2012. More than 2.5 YEARS ago.
The org is empty, we have had a number of people report on the empty org, here is a report from 2013. Now there is more proof of what a failure this “ideal org” is.
They are announcing a “special” graduation because two people finished their Objectives. WOW. And of course, I was curious, so I looked them up. They couldn’t possibly be NEW public. If they completed two NEW public on Objectives it would be a MONUMENTAL Graduation, not just a “special” graduation.
Sure enough, it appears Virginia completed her first scientology courses at CCLA in 1994 and is at least Clear. KC White seems to have completed the Student Hat the first time in 1997.
It’s a “special graduation” I suppose because they have ANY completions.
Errol, Thank you for sharing that. I listen to a lot of alternet news for data and this is the sort of news that is shared. After my last 40 years of S, well, I’ll just say I have a lot to catch-up on and this is some so thank you.
I agree with Yawnalot. You shouldn’t bite your auditor.
i guess no one would disagree with this statement.
Let the tech and it’s results speak for themselves.
whatever gets someone through the day without bothering anyone else is okay with me.
Hmmm, I have no comment, except to say, no comment.
Here is the statue by the Iraqi sculptor Kalat and the story behind it.
I think a similar tribute is fitting for the families forced into disconnection
https://asknod.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/securedownload-1.jpg
This statue currently stands outside the Iraqi palace, now home to the 4th Infantry division. It will eventually be shipped home and put in the memorial museum in Fort Hood , Texas . The statue was created by an Iraqi artist named Kalat, who for years was forced by Saddam Hussein to make the many hundreds of bronze busts of Saddam that dotted Baghdad .
Kalat was so grateful for the America ‘s liberation of his country; he melted 3 of the heads of the fallen Saddam and made the statue as a memorial to the American soldiers and their fallen warriors.
Kalat worked on this memorial night and day for several months.
To the left of the kneeling soldier is a small Iraqi girl giving the soldier comfort as he mourns the loss of his comrades in arms.
Do you know why we don’t hear about this in the news? The media avoids it because it does not have the shock effect. But we can do something about it.
We can pass this along to as many people as we can in honor of all our brave military who are making a difference.
Therefore, I pass it along to share with you.
Scientology IS changing the planet. Scientology IS making people smarter. Every time any individual researches Scientology, he/she becomes smarter than they were before and KNOW they should never get involved in it!!!!!!!!
Right, Alex! Miscavige’s cult is clearing the planet of Scientologists. (That’s not original.)
Didn’t work for me, it dulled my intelligence so much I believed all the lies they tell without checking them for myself, the result was being several hundred thousand $ poorer before I eventually came to my senses and said “enough!”. Yes there are some benefits to scn but the clever person takes what they can then gets out, the good soldiers become lifetime members – broke, broken family and unable to deal with the real world, fully believing themselves to be a superior being to those around them – “the wogs”.
If you ever wonder at the bitterness expressed on this and similar forums I think it can be summed up by saying that none of us like being conned, we are the ones who have woken up and realize we have lost money, time, family and friends to a huge lie.
Jesus! Don’t these people know that LRH expressly trashed the name Survival Rundown in 1982 for an Objectives Rundown because it was positioned with Indians and Buffaloes, neither of whom survived particularly well. Melanie Seidler Murray put it together when LRH was off the lines in 1980 as a follow up to the Purif, based on LRH orders. When LRH reviewed it, he torched it. Scientologists don’t know their history anymore, it seems.
Indeed they do not. For myself I have empathy with our american ancestors
and our Neanderthal ones whose DNA comprises up to 4% of ours and helps
resistance to many diseases.
Look at Geronimo and Chief Joseph of the Nes Pierce who in warfare
despite being severely “outgunned” persisted despite being essentially stone age citizens. The human spirit.
Later we have Russel Means. http://www.russellmeans.com
“Thirty years ago, reflecting the consciousness of the sixties, he captured national attention when he led the 71-day armed takeover on the sacred grounds of Wounded Knee, a tiny hamlet in the heart of South Dakota’s Pine Ridge Reservation. Means joined The Longest Walk in 1978 to protest a new tide of anti-Indian legislation including the forced sterilization of Indian women. Following the walk, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a resolution saying that national policy was to protect the rights of Indians, to believe, express and exercise their traditional religions, including but not limited to access to sites, use and possession of sacred objects, and the freedom to worship through ceremonials and traditional rites.”
This is not some fake expression of a Creed honored in it absence. It was
delivered in blood!
I would be honoured to do a survival rundown represented by
Amerindians and Neanderthals But I and they, I’m sure would consider that after
doing it previously taking a next step upward would be more
appropriate than redoing the last step. Such is human progress.
Russel Means can be seen in the great movie “Last of the Mohicans”.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/
That’s a wonderful post Terril. Good on you. 🙂
Mike, this Phoenix org was the subject of a lot of Scientology excitement, as many of us remember. Here is “Dede from Phoenix:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzUbvJW2vcw
I thought Dede was from the valley. She cracks me up.
Wow, look at all the customers! That place is with it! Happening! Now, ya know?! It’s *the* place to be if you’re young, hip, and toadally groovy. I mean just *look* at all those happy young customers flooding that parking lot and business office. Toadally.
Volunteer, you beat me to my comment. I was going to ask, rhetorically, if its now off-policy for anyone under 60 to do a course. Where are all the bright, shiny, young faces indicative of the church’s “unprecedented”, massive expansion?
There are still a lot of second or third generation Scientologists, meaning young people who are doing their Bridge these days. I can’t think of any brand new ones though. Actually I met one young lady from the Middle East about six months ago. All of the young people doing courses theses days pretty much come from Scientologist families.
Got it, Pepper, and you’re right. Now, without any brand- new, young, raw meat, for the Church of Scientology to survive, these 2nd & 3rd generation Scientologists are going to need to reproduce quite a bit. Yet, are they? Are they having kids, much? I’d love to know the percentage of them joining the Sea Org, because if they stay in the SO there won’t be a 4th generation.
From Tweets: “David Miscavige makes Top Ten most infamous & dangerous cult leaders.”
(www.xenu.net) fb.me/3z1ptpuls
Just to give my subjective view re SRD. I did the old and good HQS. Drilled
objectives, coached them, ran them, was run on them. Then did this all over again on the standard dianetics course HSDC. Then switched to NED and then somewhat reluctantly did all this over again. I was then C/Sed to do the survival rundown. This coincided with my time on staff so could have got this all for free.
But had no interest and didn’t do it. Or anything else at that time.
It’s not that people cannot make gains while in the cult (I did), it’s that they make gains in spite of the cult. In the words of Jason Beghe, “Show me a fucking Clear”. For that matter show me an OT that even approximates cause over life, never mind cause over their own bank account. I’d say anyone pursuing OT via the Indie path is just as deluded and sucked into LRH’s con as those ‘still in’. The only time Ron attempted to show a Clear he failed miserably. And he never again make that mistake. From my mid- level perspective of OT 3X, it’s all a sham, including the tech, whether in the hands of Flag or Indie.
Of course it is, Rob! It’s all MAKE BELIEVE. If this was just a game you would play, it just might be a lot of fun! Unfortunately, the cult members take all this shit seriously.
In response to Rob about gains, etc.
Yes, A lot of people did get gains in spite of the Fascist virus in the modern-day cult of Miscavige.
What concerns me about the polarization of everything that is going on is that, once upon a time, people did get gains. There was something to learn and there are benefits. Also, the PEOPLE (most people) who got involved really do have a purpose to help people and improve man’s overall condition. I still feel that there are tools that Ron did put together to help that.
I’ve often thought of how much better the world would be if everyone only did a Comm Course.
However, with the message being, “Scientology is evil,” people can come to the conclusion that every Scientologist is a raving nut ball like DM and that there is no benefit in Scientology, the actual philosophy.
Also, we can get to the point that now, Scientologists who chose to pursue Independent Scientology are derided and ridiculed about a choice that they have a right to make.
Everyone has their opinion and their right to it. You, me, them.
I just hope that we all remember that everyone has a choice and not to spread the hatred and the venom to the people who were actually the adverse effect of the fascism in the first place.
My two-cent’s-worth.
Good comments Indie. If you use something of the tech and help someone, that is perfect. Many have. And many still do.
To just trash and trash everything and all who claim any benefit is just fundamentalism.
The tech is 100% standard and perfect and we are on our way to planetary clearing. Fundamentalism.
The tech is 100% bad and does not and never has worked and all is bad. Fundamentalism.
Yes, once upon a time all that was needed was to DO.
Now that’s gone. What’s needed now is to UNDO everything just to get back to zero.
Thanks David Miscavige!
Subreption – Thanks for that.
Yeah, I’ve been seeing that a lot. Very good point that it’s Fundamentalism.
If you go over to Tony’s blog (which I do read and like – including many of the comments) and say anything Ron or tech friendly, “Whoosh!” down swoop the witch’s monkeys to try to condemn and ridicule you for thinking that there is anything right about Ron or Scientology.
I don’t take it personally but it’s just as much as a hate crime/comment as when DM says that anyone who speaks out about the church is a bitter apostate or a “crocodile liar”.
There was good research done by Hubbard. If you read the Emerald Tablets of Thoth or the Vedic Hymns or watch “Ancient Aliens” for that matter, you’ll find a lot of what Ron studied to come to his conclusions. Not so outrageous really.
And as far as Scientology not making OTs, I don’t know. I think we’re all OTs anyway.
If you read BAS 10R, “Recognition of the Rightness of the Being” you’ll see that his original intention was just to get rid of enough self-limiting baggage so that the rightness that IS you can expand and expand. So, in essence, we, ourselves are already there. Scientology technology just kind of takes out the trash and cleans the windows so that we can move freely about the cabin of life without interference and see a little better. What we do then is up to us, individually.
So goes my thinking.
OverruninCali – So true.
Yeah, I was in a not-so-great part of town a while ago and saw all of the human distress that could be helped with just the basic tech
People were fighting, drugged, crazy and all of the windows had bars.
I’m not saying that all of that could have been repaired with Scientology HOWEVER, tiny fists really impeded any progress we hoped to have made.
35 YEARS of embezzlement, diverting funds and closing down missions. He cut a wide swath.
The people who were in Scientology 35 years ago WANTED to be able to do something about it. We felt we did have something which with we could help people.
As I looked around in that part of town, I thought, “Wow. What would this have been like if we would have been allowed to really DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?” No one can handle everything but even if we had helped some people communicate better, or helped them study better so that they would have a fuller comprehension of life so that they made better decisions for themselves?
Even if we did a little part and others did theirs; it may have made a dent or two.
Like you said, Overrun. Now we have to fight back UP to zero. That may be Miscavige’s biggest crime against all of us.
Fortunately, some of us still want to help. Good thing the tech is still here, outside.
There is nothing right about Ron. He lied about his physics education. He lied about his military honors. He condemned psychiatric medication. He condemned gay people. That’s four strikes against him that affect me on a very personal level. If he was on fire, I wouldn’t piss on him to put it out. But, hey, guess that means that I’m only a witch’s monkey and can be made subhuman. If it was happening to you, you’d call it a hate crime. What’s good for the goose is sauce for the gander. Have a good long look in the mirror before you call me and my tribe bigots.
Thanks for your comments. Makes sense to me and I appreciate your compassion for your fellow posters.
You know the interesting thing about what is probably going to happen in the future is this. The Cof$ are being de-fanged as we type. It is only a matter of time before the corruption is exposed and miscavige is removed, he runs away, disappears or some misadventure occurs or legal calamity befalls him.
Then a feeding frenzy will probably occur by those in the know/legal profession, political pervasion, or whatever to gobble up the assets.
What will be left is us. I’m sure some will miss the randomity and others will just drift off, others will rejoice and party and yet others will continue to fight the “Scientologists” still practicing it in any form. All I can say to those types is stay behind your keyboard, it’s the safest place for you.
The post anti-scientology movement will lack human rights as much as miscavige does imho.
Real people can be a bitch to run into with bigoted ideas.
Indie, I largely agree with what you are saying here. I have no problem at all in recognizing all of the CoS’ similarities with the old USSR and its fascistic tendencies, while at the same time recognizing all the case gain I made in 35 years in Scientology and the thousands upon thousands of great personal wins I saw in the pc’s I audited and CS’d. (though I do think that after a certain time in the CoS, there is an inversion and by one’s own agreement, one goes severely downscale as far as any indpendance of thinking or acting goes). Similarly with LRH. Fucked up and often delusionary. And yet, he came up with (in my opinion) some absolutely brilliant observations about life and the spirit which I use every single day to understand life and make it better for myself and others (which isn’t to say I’m not somewhat fucked up myself still). On balance, VERY glad I got into Scientology as a teenager. Mixed bag? Like sooooooo much of life and so much of many famous and idolized individuals. Jesus (who, like Moses probably was not a real historical figure) is quoted in the New Testament as giving out some extremely wonderful and loving advice/commands (which few Christians follow) on how to live life and treat one’s fellow human beings. At the same time he was saying not to judge others, he condemned all who would not love and follow him or who did not recognize him as God. Yeah, people are often mixed bags. If you take Genesis literally, and God created man in his own image, then the Supreme Creator of everything was also one fucked up dude (ok, I’m channelling George Carlin here)
“Changing the face of the planet”.
How about Virginia and K.C head on over to Mosul and do a little ‘changing the face of the planet’ over there?
“Changing the face of the planet”; based on two people completing the SRD in Arizona: a delusional, grandiose and glib fantasy.
I drove by this building last May through June. Always looked abandoned. Other than ther two preserved corpses they dug up in the desert (pictured) are there any other Scn’ers in this 4+ million population area? The 12th largest in the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas
Now I know why Clearwater ‘graduations’ are better than other mOrgs. You get a frame with the big piece of paper and don’t have to adopt awkward poses to keep the ‘certificate’ straight. Good thing there were two of them, otherwise no one would be able to do the ‘thumbs up’ salute. In some parts of the world, that ‘thumbs up’ means f**k you. Freudian slip anyone?
In a roundabout way, yes, they have absolutely changed the face of this planet! So very well done guys! KSF! (Keep Scientology Failing)
I guess using the subjects of botox, fake smiles and using too many trees can be linked
to this but that does not reach the true meaning to this post. The truly important message
is how low the bar has been set for the success of an ideal org. A special graduation for
two SRD grads is surely a pathetic showing. This post is yet another indication of the failure
of the ideal orgs. And an indication of the failure of Miscavige to deliver what he has promised.
And be sure it is indeed Miscavige who has distorted what an ideal org is. It is Miscavige who has
decided this to be done no matter how much it costs or how much it hurts/destroys other people. Yes the photo
does open the door for making fun of those in the photos….I’ve done it myself in past posts…..but this post
is a glaring testament to the obvious intention of Miscavige to destroy the training side of the grade chart,
and most important a glaring testament to the abject failure of ideal orgs. Hopefully after March 29th many
of those still in will say that’s it, I’m done with this bullshit!
There needs to be a statue commissioned to memorialize all the families affected by disconnection. It should be made from materials
taken from the ideal orgs; after they are scrapped. It would be similar to the Iraqi sculptor who made his statue from the bronze of three of Saddam’s busts that were melted down. I’ll post a picture first chance.
Wonderful Idea, Errol! I like it! Create a statue to all the victims of DISCONNECTION (which doesn’t exist) from the rubble left behind! Classic!
The Objectives…
You’re talking about two Objective completions – that’s a graduation from a 2 & 1/2 year old straight up and vertical Ideal Org ~!!! That’s it? No auditor’s made, co-audits, comm courses, admin crse completions, staff statuses or anything like that?
OMG! Prior to GAT I was a sup and 250k plus points a week was nornmal, at least one auditor made, often more, too many co-audit completions to mention easily but always objectives, drug rdn, review completions etc. Quad grades (remember those – great for new public and instantly made new scientologists out of raw public) plus always an intro crse or two AND that was just the academy in a Class 4 Org in those days. We kept the HGC and Qual separate (yes Qual use to have completions too!) There was generally a friendly competition between Day & Fdn, it got a bit noisy when students/PCs studied on both Day & Fdn working out who got the completion stat.
It always makes me scratch my head in wonder when people say Scientology doesn’t work and it’s all a sham – you sure weren’t around my org or the AO in the early- mid to late 80s. It was busy and fun before Dave’s poison filtered down lines and his Flag Reps & missionaries turned into complete assholes and before reges & execs turned criminal with finance.
Making auditor’s was tough but fun and being a tough sup brought the best admiration of all. Modern or Dave made $cientologists don’t understand diddly squat about Scientology or what an auditor is, does or how to make one. The subject to them is like their orgs – an empty space.
“It always makes me scratch my head in wonder when people say Scientology doesn’t work and it’s all a sham – you sure weren’t around my org or the AO in the early- mid to late 80s. It was busy and fun”
How does that equal to OT’s (cause over MEST), & Clears (with the abilities described by El Con) were being made? (the reason El Con created Scn) It has been EXHAUSTIVELY shown that it has NEVER happened. So, what do you mean by “scn works?” There are more people in the Church of the Jedi than in Scn. So, that means/proves that Jedi mind power “works”?
Of course DM is a criminal. You don’t have to be blind to the truth about Scn to know that. It Scn REALLY worked, SURELY El Con would not have promoted an OBVIOUS 1.1-1.5 crim like DM to power. Right?
Church of Jedi: 14,000,000
Cult of Scientology: 20,000
It always amaze me that I can be told so directly and positively that what I saw and experienced is wrong – dead wrong and so I am I. I agree DMSMH is a difficult book and makes outlandish claims but I didn’t reach the same scenario with the PDCs nor any of the later 50’s & 60s data. I did R6EW and it was a blast. But understanding R6 took a bit of heavy duty study but I found it worked. So, am I wrong there too?
As I’ve posted earlier, imho this cause over life stuff is not applicable to the MEST bodies as such, and moving mest around by thoughts etc. or other ridiculous claims of cause over life & OTness. I certainly of the agreement, your universe (which is life too) is yours and it’s auditable and you have the right to do anything you want with it. Most people don’t know they have their own universe and rely completely on this one. This mest universe is the common ground we share, the one we die for and raise families in and make careers out of and is a universe we agree to be this way, nutty as it is sometimes. I don’t have a problem with the Axioms.
Just because you don’t get it or expect something different and bought the hype doesn’t mean I did. Why is it so important to you to correct me? I don’t steal from people. I let you have your opinion and stand beside you in the fight to stop the abuses yet I’m not allowed via you to see something else in the tech of Scientology. I have over a dozen of PCs that would spit in your face if they heard you call me a mindless Ron bot.
Not all is as it seems, but I’ve always accepted manners as an obligation.
I’ve been a soldier this lifetime and I accept the VC as people now and grant them the same beingness I grant you. Unless their present actions prove otherwise. There is the concept of letting something go and look at what is front of you. I just happen to like the tech and get something out of it up to the mid 70s. After that it self imploded and went rotten. The SO was the worst idea Hubbard ever implemented imho.
It’s obviously too early for people like me to voice that have the same rights as everyone else – there’s a witch hunt in progress regarding $cientology and it’s going to get worse before it gets better. The bandwagon wheels have been greased and there’s plenty of room.
Well said Yawn.
Frankly, I think anyone who presumes to determine for anyone else what makes them happy or brings them inner peace is simply the other side of the fundamentalist coin. On one hand these people know what cannot bring you peace and on the other they know what can. Both assertions are ignorant.
What is most amusing is the anti-fundamentalist and fundamentalist squaring off – getting themselves all in a lather, absolutely convinced the other is a fool, too stupid to see the truth.
Belief and faith are VERY personal things. They don’t accept outside opinions well.
Whether Scientology works or not is better phrased as whether it worked or not. It is history now. Scientology as it once was is only to be found among the Independents. The Church of Scientology does not practice it any more. GAT I ruined the Tech and GAT II killed it off. Now they are ditching the Policy Letters so the way to run the organisation is being killed off as well. But to give DM credit, this has removed the uncertainty that once existed in the Church. Now, everybody knows for sure that it isn’t Scientology any more. But some parts remain the same. Using the law to harass is working better than before. Fair gaming people has been extended. Disconnection has developed into an art form. But where they really excel is in the fleecing of the chumps. Donations for this – donations for that. Fleecing the whales has become a science – they know who has how much and they match ranks with them from within the Sea Org to engineer geting the most out of them. This is the modern day Church of Scientology. Donatology – the science of fleecing whales.
Yawnalot
if you want to say the tech works, you have to define what you mean by “work” in a non vague way.
because “work” can mean anything.
while making auditors is a good thing from a scientology point of view, isn’t making clears, that actually and in reality are clear and have all the abilities and qualities of a clear, just as important?
there is another level above clear that provides fodder for why a clear still doesn’t have the expected abilities. so in essence being clear is meaningless. not because i so say but because the mere presence of higher levels says so.
without knowing anything about you, odds are you’ve never done any better or worse than your neighbors at any given point, more or less. which means everyone else has been just as successful as you without the tech, more or less. so even if you got real and good tangible wins, they can’t be anything overwhelming because those other people have achieved the same thing without the tech.
if the average person gets wins and even goes clear and yet by all evidence they are still the average person, then it made no difference. average before the wins, average after the wins equals no change.
who doesn’t want all these abilities, that they would be stubborn and insist the tech doesn’t work when in fact it does, who would argue with it.
they teach swimming, no one says it doesn’t work because it does.
there are no anti-swimmists.
there was this technology, where you could pop a pill and get muscles.
some didn’t believe it, they said that was wishful thinking. then results started to appear, more people starting using this tech and getting the expected results. the non believers became believers and now no one argues whether steroids work or not.
Nobody wants it to not be real, everyone would love it if it was. but it is what it is.
if it worked there would already be billions of clears and OTs.
I hear you and thanks for your thoughts. I’ve had two stents put into my heart after an heart attack in 2013. Have a completely replaced hip and 8 screws with rods etc. securely fusing my lumbar spine and both knees operated on. I was severely (crushed) wounded in military service but can still get around just about as well as you can I imagine. I’ve never wanted sympathy and most people don’t know what a mess my body is in and up to last year could do a solid days work. Mechanically I facing a few challenges in my older age.
But that’s body stuff. It won’t live all that much longer anyway, my BP is out the roof but this scenario of having to prove to others you’re Clear and to demonstrate OT abilities I personally see as an invitation to be ridiculed. Why does something that is so personally yours, such as that universe you dream with and it generally only awakens when your eyes are closed have to be demonstrated to the likes of you.
The marketing hype used in $cientology is criminal along with it’s suppressive CSing. The whole organisation imploded in the mid to late 70s imho and was ripe for the likes of someone like miscavige to come along. Hubbard admitted openly he couldn’t control it in 1965 – KSW1 says exactly that. That’s the way I read it.
I don’t have to be pretentious nor explain myself to anyone. I post here because I like to. Mike Rinder… I don’t know him but I take him at face value that his objective is to stop the abuses. That I agree with and consider him a comrade in arms so to speak but he was also upper management through $cn unopposed era of abuses. What he thinks of the tech personally is something I’m not particularly concerned about but he moderates without bias or prejudice – I like that.
This expecting of some kind of magic or super human abilities displayed while running around in a body are imo fodder for the gullible. There is a technology of the mind imo but it’s been so bastardised and purposefully bobby trapped by miscavige and those who haven’t a clue what they are playing with.
Just because I put my hand up and say, hey I’m Clear and know it and don’t particularly have a problem with imminent body death and moving on seems to incite a “prove it to me!” or else you are a liar response.
At the end of the day there’s only you. Time isn’t a friendly thing if you’re hooked on bodies but expecting everything to be explained to you is folly. My advice is go find an auditor who knows their stuff and isn’t a suppressive mind control freak like they are in the Cof$ and find yourself and your own answers. But don’t bite him, he has just as much right to exist as you do.
I Yawn a Lot, wonderful post. I love what you said and you were very articulate and made good points.
As much as people come on this blog and attack the tech and its validity, those of us that experienced the wins, won’t and can’t be persuaded that it doesn’t work. I feel for those that had non standard delivery or those that had and lost wins or never had them in the first place. Self realization is a fantastic thing. Personally I gained a lot. You’ll never take that away despite what you say.
There is good in Scientology. How much depends on what one can get out of it. (That is very personal and subjective.)
Meanwhile, the church is self-destructing and the sharks are circling, setting up for a feeding frenzy. (This is almost like something from ‘Outer Limits’.
Thousands of Scientologists put their “heart and soul” in the early orgs. and we trusted management to apply the tech because it worked. Compartmentalization,status, divide and conquer and being reasonable took it down. Fortunately dedicated people are applying the tech out side. I feel for my old friends who are still in the orgs. trying to make it go right against all odds. Deranged Misanthrope is the quintessential psychopath.Watch his first public event. This hollow suit needs to be hung out to dry.
Ron, if “the tech” worked, a little twerp like DM wouldn’t have been able to fool the Great OT (and Most Highly Trained) El Con and overcome all the other highly trained OT’s at Int to ruin it all. THAT is axiomatic. If you apply logic, your statement turns to dust and blows away like sand in a Phoenix sand storm.
John, Ron has as much right to voice an opinion as you do. Applying your ‘logic’ to your statement is also flawed.
Wow. That is very true. If all those OTs couldn’t see who is is and just went blindly along… even when LRH said “when someone make the buildings more important than training and auditing…” then, of course…. those OTs canNOT confront. Literally. The tech does NOT work.
My experience was that it helped with some low-level, early stuff that I consider to be “self-help” and “therapy.” Other than that… all this OT stuff was literally uninteresting and now it is obvious that NONE of it works. If it WORKED….then families would be in communication, happy, thriving and loving each other… rather than broke and suffering disconnection.
“…. and being reasonable …”
Oy vey iz mir.
1984dejavue, I’m not voicing opinion. An opinion would be, “Apples are better than oranges.”
Stating, “Humans can jump to the moon.” is not an opinion. It is a LIE. I stated FACTS. One can have their own opinions. NOT their own facts.
Stating that Scn produced Clears as per the abilities El Con described and OT’s that are cause over MEST is a LIE. NOT an opinion. Do you understand?
It seems that ‘absolutes are obtainable in this universe’ especially if it is your opinion (assumptions).
IMHO, you seem to be demonstrating the same sense of logic that the churchies demonstrate.
Ron, I used to feel for the staff also. I don’t anymore. The other day I realized that – the old timers are afraid of being in the condition of Doubt, so their solution is to not look, which puts them squarely in Confusion, or, at the very highest, Enemy.
These deluded staff would have to come UP to being in Doubt. Doubt would be a good goal for them.
But they couldn’t confront the Doubt formula steps when it occurred to them that that’s where they actually were.
Too scary, doing the Doubt Formula steps. Examining statistics. Uh, oh. Too scary.
So now they’re lower than that, because they refused to confront doing Doubt.
A portion of them are in Treason, not knowing anymore what their hats are.
Some of them, the highest, are in Enemy. They know how full of shit it all is and that its not working but they’re going along with it anyway. Enemy.
But the rest, the majority, are in Confusion. They’re confused. They don’t know where they are.
They “think” they’re in a world where Scientology is making many positive effects, expanding (except in their own areas) by leaps and bounds
Whereas, where they REALLY are is in a world that considers the Church of Scientology at best a joke and at worst a dangerous cult which is thankfully shrinking.
Confusion. These old timers, these long term staff, they put themselves in this deluded state because at one point, each of them refused to look.
Feel sorry for them? Not me. They can handle the truth. We did. We faced it and didn’t die. They can face it too. There’s lots and lots of help out here for them – help and no blame, because we were all there. But first they have to take a deep breath and grow up.
Indeed. The common denominator of all staff on lines is that they are in lower conditions and to be honest that goes for the public as well. They have bought into a suppressive organisation and support it, of that there is no doubt. I do like your viewpoint that no blame should be employed. The lower part of most scales is already in effect, we really don’t require to rub salt into the wounds.
Any solution worthy of any lasting value has to be an uptone one.
However, you can lead horse to water, if it drinks or not is always a challenge.
I don’t want to get too philosophical here but the order of magnitude required for those staff members to realise what condition they are in is similar to those who insist there is no workability in Hubbard’s tech.
The mind is knowable and fixable imo but ownership of the truth comes at a price, and that is self realisation of the game(s) that one has insisted on playing.
Is it genuinely in one’s best interest? Or does it need a condition applied to?
Nothing supports life better than an honest approach to helping.
If a negative goal is continually employed, one could ask what is it that you really want to communicate?
genially strong org. Phoenix, it was called? Wow!
Mike, you and your suppressive stat time lines and vertical scales. This is straight up & vertical according to how LRH wanted stats tracked as revealed in Double-Gold-Plus-Good Stat Tech as found aboard the newly restored Royal Scotsman. I don’t know if you’ve heard but newly minted SeaOrg members who are of coarse total OTs; a tautology if I ever heard one; tracked down the original scrap metal of the ship even after it had been recycled and made into new products. In some cases they’d been recycled more then once. The Tech f’in’ works. Then metal crystal analyse revealed that LRH had hand stamp this lost stat tracking tech into the very metal of the boat. He considered it that important but the SPs recycled the boat which was in every way ideal up right up until it meat the scrapper. They ruined an ideal boat just to suppress this Tech Revolution and to pay a gambling debt. But they where finally spotted and declared just last week by COB!!!
You see SeaOrg members sign a billion year contract. Yet, you and other SPs unfairly expect them to keep track of their stats on a week to week basses. That’s just plain suppressive on someone who is going to be there for a billion years, they don’t renew just for the fun of it at the end. Stats should be tracked with 40,000,000 year units aka there whole eon of service should fit on one page, Otherwise it will be very hard to look over all of there stats pretty soon, wouldn’t?
The Vertical scale starts at zero since this is the first time this stat has been tracked, aka the first graduation for this course at brand new ideal org that will probably exist for billions of years!. But how high should the vertical scale be?? Obviously, to the next ORDER OF MAGNITUDE aka 10 that’s the only fair number!!! Now imagine this on a chart paper. It’s plain straight up a VERTICAL, baby. I can see you shattering from here. Where flourishing on a time scale you can’t even comprehend.
A few more stats like this and all you SPs will probably drop your bodies and leave the planet for somewhere less hostile to your kind like the sun!!!
Should have been “if they don’t renew just for the fun of it at the end.” But SP keyboard manufactures. Bridge is coming out with a new keyboard that not only will help you type as COB, err, I mean LRH intended you to type but it will also report on everything that’s typed directly to COB…
From 83 … stats week to week??? Brother, you are old school and way behind the times. It’s hour to hour, baby, and you’re freakin’ lucky it ain’t minute to minute, ya follow?
We shouldn’t make fun of the victims of Scientology. They might be losing their live savings soon.
Generally the ones making the fun, have already lost theirs, plus a good hunk of their working lives. It’s a tough scenario and that’s why they post, they will try anything; seriousness, anger, amusement, anything on the tone scale to try to get their point across so as to stop those abuses. It’s no fun being a veteran Scientologist really but we have earned certain liberties… can you see that?
Don’t apologize, Yawn. We on the outside cut our losses and faced the music. We began to look, not listen. We left or went UTR. We now have to deal with the Still-ins turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to all the crap that is right in front of their faces. What better way to ongoingly do this then to be able to laugh? So we laugh at these people, so what? Should we be crying for them and feeling bad all the time because “there are none so blind as those who will not see” ? Not me. I’m done with that, mostly, except for the current real tragedies of any Still -ins as re the Disconnection and Fair Game policies. But for the rest of them? Fair Game for laughter, as I once was, when I was a Koolaid drinker. One day these Still Ins will have their “Aha” moment and they too will begin to look. Until then, I’m not crying for them anymore. End of rant.
Aquamarine, I think we can laugh at the out-points but still cry or at least be understanding of the people still in.
The salad days are long gone. Now it’s tumble weeds and whistling wind.
They’re like a plant without a root system. Desiccation has already begun, it’s just a matter of time.
“Now it’s tumble weeds and whistling wind.” AND CRICKETS!!! DON’T FORGET THE CRICKETS!
Plain Old Thetan used to bring us some great updates on this org. Miss that guy…
+1
Me too. I enjoyed Plain Old Thetan. Peace, POT.
+1
A service that is changing the face of this planet…and that face is frowning and by shaking a finger towards the ‘church’, its leader and minions, is saying:
tsh, tsh no more abuses; your coffers may be full, your real estates properties have sure gone straight up and vertical, fine you can keep it all. But the false advertisements, the abuse of parishioners, the non caring attitude towards staff, no sir, no more. So, yes the face of the planet is changing and telling you NO MORE of your lies, abuses and crimes.
+1!
Right on, Silvia! And I noticed that the two graduates probably twinned with each other on their re-do of lower Bridge actions. That coaudit means the church doesn’t have to deliver, so it’s much more efficient money-wise. Who wants to pay professional auditors and CSes? This way you can get a course supervisor to supervisor lots of twinships at the same time and save the money you would have had to pay auditors and CSes. And it takes less time to make a course sup than it does to make an auditor. DM gets better and better over the years with his creative ways to be out exchange and fill his coffers.
Changing the face of this planet? How?
The number of trees destroyed to print the course materials and checksheets should have a significant impact regarding oxygen depletion and global warming.
Espi, are you saying EVERYTHING this vile, evil, toxic cult does is detrimental to our world as well as our lives? Wow! But…but.. what about being THE most ethical group on Teegeeack as we know it today? My stable datum is no longer stable. Think I’ll go grab my surfboard and head for the beach. My surf sessions always relieve me of my engrams…
There is no way they can explain how they are changing the face of this planet. I almost cringed when I read that.
Wait, I get it now.
Changing the face of this planet two re-do’s at a time.
Maybe they meant changing their own faces when they realized they only got paid $5 for one week.
I wonder if it hurts their faces to smile like that…
Virginia looks like she’s had enough work done on her face to ensure that she feels absolutely nothing up there. I wonder if you have to eliminate Botox from your body on the Purif.
That’s a good point Espi…..clearly the aging OTs/movie stars Tom Cruise and John Travolta have had some work done. A snip snip here and a shot of botox there….(we’ll ignore the premise that as OTs they are supposed to be able to postulate away the wrinkles).
Does Botox come out after an overdose of Niacin and hours in the sauna? Why do these stars even waste their money?
Of course! Botox! Completely slipped my mind, Espiando! They must purchase it in bulk to keep smiles, effortlessly, on their pained faces.
Krusty Alley suffered from Narconon’s “New Strife Botoxification Program” when they told her that it would remove residual “Orgasmic Liaison” toxins from her body. Read the full lawsuit, filed by Bryan A. Hamiltown, Esq:
“Narconon’s Where the Sun Don’t Shine Plummet Lodge,”
https://jennyatlax.wordpress.com/2015/02/21/narconons-where-the-sun-dont-shine-plummet-lodge/
What a great question. It made me realize that the perpetual smile and uptone-ness of Scientologists is just one more brain hack.
Making yourself smile does have health benefits and smiling, like yawning, tends to be contagious, thus spreading is positive benefits around like an unexamined contact high.
What really works best about Scientology tech may be the contextual things that are not specified as part of tech itself. Like the effects of smiling and striving to be up tone at all times. Like being in a group where everyone is supposed to have VGIs (very good indicators) and where you must learn how to have VGIs and trigger a floating needle in each and every auditing session, if you wish that session to ever end.
So even if the tech really doesn’t work, Scientologists still think it works because they do perceive that they feel better without realizing that they feel better because they have been surreptitiously trained to learn how to make themselves feel better.
Do you really learn such skills in Scientology? For me, the answer is absolutely yes regarding myself and regarding others whom I observed. Right this moment I can put myself into a smiling, end of session, VGIs state of mind. And presto my needle is floating.
There is a lot of discussion on the positive effects of smiling available on the Internet. Here is just one example: http://positivepsychologynews.com/news/emiliya-zhivotovskaya/200809271036.
The mind can influence the body. There is a scientist at McGill University in Montreal: Mario Beauregard who conducted experiences with nuns, Buddhist monks, actors and the results showed that by being in a certain mindset they could alter the secretion of hormones or the electric flows in the brain. He wrote a book called “the Brain of God”. He is a neuroscientist specialised in brain imagery and his quest relates to the spiritual aspects of life.
Then, of course, there’s all of the Law of Attraction stuff. Basically, the law of attraction is the same thing as “Force yourself to smile and you will soon stop frowning…” which is the same as “The Magic of Believing”, and “Think and Grow Rich,” etc., etc.
Not to say that Ron was wrong. On the contrary, he was right, as are these other fine people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5na6pNKSvHU
I think I’ve given up on this power of the positive postulate shit.
I’m depressed about losing my son. Period. I can’t fake it anymore.
Dear Mary – I just saw your response. I googled you and read your story about you and your son. Believe it or not, we have more in common than you might think. I have had a similar experience but on the reverse vector.
I’m still under the radar (absolutely out but only a few know) so I don’t want to give too many details here. I would love to talk with you about this, if you’d like. Please ask Mike for my email if you’d like to connect.
I can’t say that “I know exactly how you feel…”, but I do know how I felt when I came 1,000 miles to see my young son on his birthday and my ex decided they would have my son 600 miles away so that I couldn’t see my boy at all, after having arranged the time beforehand. I was told, “I don’t think it would be good for him to see you right now.” No choice, Only told once I got there. I walked and walked and walked on the day I found out. Locked in a vortex of quiet, impotent rage vs. stunned and confused, apathetic frustration. Like being held in electrical currents pulling every way, all at once.
These are enough details so that people who know me intimately will recognize who I am. I hope that, if they do they’ll keep looking at this blog, read Debbie Cook’s letter, and finally know that they are right. There IS something wrong. Wrong in the sense that, if another group was doing this, they would be appalled and would make a public outcry against it.
And that they step away from the Church of Miscavige. It’s no longer what we signed up for.
Anyway, please write me, if you’d like.
Besides holding up the walls, when did they have time to do objectives?
Well, for one thing these dimwitted idiots bought several cases of alcohol for their shitting dwarf leader. That’s something they accomplished.
Purchased cases of scotch for D.M. ?
Boggles the mind.
Easy – “Look at that wall” is easy to do when you have no bodies in the shop.
It is a scenario played in all Orgs around the Globe, Nothing changes even after they open the big building after 99,90999999% of members went broke to make it happen. Nothing is said – it is too hard to confront. It is easier to pretend. Scientology IS the science of “lets pretend”.
They don’t call em “Idle Morgues” for nothing.