This was sent to me by a dear friend and fellow survivor of the trenches of scientology.
It seems awfully appropriate to post this morning, a day when it seems somewhat pointless to say much other than: enjoy Going Clear. I do realize there are other places in the world who cannot see it today, but it is dominating the scientology narrative today nevertheless.
It has been a long time coming. It has already changed the world of scientology and the ripples from this landing in the middle of their pond will continue for many years to come. The media is emboldened. Individuals are stepping forward to tell their stories (see article in Washington Post). Hopefully it will also stimulate some legislators and government agencies to act.
It’s a great day for the spotlights to be turned on. And while the church will try to shield the eyes of everyone in the flock, they will not be able to succeed. This has become a cultural phenomenon and every scientologist who has any friends, neighbors, workmates or family NOT in the church will be watching this program and will ask those scientologists about it afterwards. The light is seeping into the blackness.
It’s about time. It’s been too dark for too long in there.
Mike, I saw the film last nite, watching it from the viewpoint of someone never in and unfamiliar with Scientology other than it being Cruise’s and Travolta’s religion. What I saw looking from this “never-in” viewpoint was nothing short of devastating for the cult. If I had seen this documentary back in the day I would never, never, ever had walked into a Scientology org. Now, I would have read Dianetics for the reason that I did read it; because I will read anything. That’s why I read Dianetics – I just needed something to read. But walk into an org? After what those Int events looked like, after hearing you and Paul Haggis and Marty, Spanky, Hana Whitfield and Sara Goldberg and Jason Beghe each tell your truths very naturally, just being who you each are, communicating these devastating truths in your own different styles – OMG, I have no words. This is IT for the cult. Thank you, Mike. Again, there’s an enormity to this that I sense and I haven’t fully processed as yet. Just thank you, ok?
Dani,
I do have the experience the Tech works. It is a subjective experience, but a very true one. It works 100% when applied correctly and DOES NOT work 100% when applied incorrectly. This was true since I was exposed 35 years ago, due to your and Tami’s efforts, and true till today. However the actions of the Church have nothing to do with Tech of auditing. More than once LRH talks that auditing is for the PC, not the C/S, and not the organization. He talks very firmly against executive C/Sing. As a SO member for 4 years I have experienced 1st hand the corruption of “executive C/Sing”. Orders and cross orders were part and parcel od daily life in the Solo HGC at Flag. RTC personally did the “selection” whose can attest to OT 7 and who can not. It had nothing to do with the Tech. It reached an extremely high level of corruption. Lots of good and honest people fell into the category of beyond help.
It lies on the shoulders of those indie auditors who adhere to standard tech to “undo” that corruption. It is possible, but those people need to come voluntarily. My wife Ronit, also joins Dror College by extending an open invitation to produce results.
Yes, and today after watching this powerful documentary, I feel more determined to do all possible in order to promote Standard Tech. The CofS engram should be erased. Nobody should walk with the amount of charge that CofS produced on the individuals.
The doors of freedom are open. Mike, with your blog you keep the doors open and a great platform of free communication. Thank YOU and kudos to you.
I’m curious to know what people mean when they say the tech “works”. What does that mean?
It means whatever the speaker wants it to mean. Nobody knows truly what the sentence means as the subject of scientology itself doesn’t define what it is supposed to DO. Now, many Indie auditors will probably take issue with that I just said, and claim that each grade and process have a defined published EP (End Phenomena). So lets look at some of those:
Grade 0 (Communications Release) is “the ability to communicate freely to anyone on any subject”. Take careful note of what it says; it does not say that the person then does communicate freely to everyone, it says the person has the ability to do it. If the Case Supervisor thinks the pc has achieved this ability, they might offer the pc the chance to attest. If the pc believes they have this ability (said belief could easy be euphoria, or truth, or anything in between), then they attest to the grade and can now lay claim to having “the ability to communicate freely to anyone on any subject”.
THIS is what most scientologists and auditors have in mind when they say “the tech works”. The closest objective statement you can get to it is “it seems to me that this fellow is acting happier in life” or something like that.
Each other level has their own EP, example Clear “A being who no longer has his own reactive mind”. Well that assumes the person ever had a reactive mind at all – an entirely unproven assertion. It also doesn’t make any sense – the fellow no longer has his own reactive mind. Well if the reactive mind was never his, then what the blazes *did* he have? Body Thetans? My reactive mind, or yours? Something else that was pretending to be a reactive mind but wasn’t? The pc cannot possibly answer these questions, the intended meaning is probably on the higher OT levels and a Clear isn’t there yet.
I know this was a long reply, probably longer than you were looking for, but I thought it important to lay out these simple ideas. No matter which way it is spun, Scientology cannot possibly be claimed to work, as Scientology does not state in real terms what it actually does. So “it works” eventually means whatever the speaker wants it to mean.
Thank you, splog. What you said makes sense, especially about the definition of “clear” which doesn’t make sense as it is written because it begs more questions than it answers!
Indeed. I have one of my own that I could never make sense of. The Treason Formula:
Find out THAT you are.
I offer eleventy interwebz as a prize to anyone who can fully explain it, including why “that” is capitalized.
Practical treason formula: Stop betraying yourself by following anyone who offers pat answers that only you can figure out for yourself.
LOL! How about any one of his axioms…let’s see if we can make logical sense of this: “Space is a viewpoint of dimension”. (I used to think the axioms were so deep and way over my head!) Or: “Energy is postulated particles in space”. It is genuinely cathartic to call out this gibberish!
Space is the distance between yourself and the Org. Energy consists of telling MAAs and reges to go to hell.
Gibberish. Yes, that’s exactly what it is.
Don’t forget the Factors, the Qs, the Prelogics. None of it makes any sense, they look like deep statements of how things really work but really they can only be the product of a confused mind.
The Affirmations on the other hand – those make perfect sense. It’s immediately obvious what they are and they pre-date all his other crap
Roger,
You are welcome to E-mail me personally and I can reply to your answer the best way I can. Thank you.
Thank you, I will take you up on that invitation.
Mike:
I watched going clear last night, it was very hard to confront the whole truth and well this show really made me confront it. I want to thank you, Marty, Tom and all the other courageous people who stood up and spoke the truth about Scientology.
I was raised a Scientologist and our family was destroyed by it. I was forced to disconnect from my Mother, my father passed away after refusing medical treatment for fear of being labeled PTS. My sister suffered and still suffers from a hereditary mental illness, that my parents never sought treatment for outside the church, because all scientologists were told psychiatry was the enemy.
I have many friends whose lives were also destroyed. I hope that enough people have the truth now, and are able to get out.
Thanks again to all that stood up to this horrific cult!
Mike Rinder
Thanks you for exposing the destructive cult of Scientology. i have flirted with Scientology back in the mid eighties while i still in senor year in high school and took some basic courses including Comm .Course and HQS. I even have put in an application to join the Sea Org at that time. I have to complete my HS and vocational school after prior joining the SO You would not believe the high pressure sales tactics to convince me to drop my plans finishing HS and Vocational school to join the Sea Org. After completing HS and was about one month left on vocational school.. I’ve crave in their high pressure tactics and went on EPF at the LA Org. After one week on the EPF, I told him that wanted out. After waiting one week to get routed out and still was not routed out. On that Friday afternoon, I just went out the course room and went back upstairs and pulled my bags and called the cab to take me back to the airport. After getting back home and finishing up my vocational school. I went back to Mission in Houston, to finish up the HRQ and Book One courses. Ethic officer there said I went to go the Org In Austin and drop more of my cash to the steps in order to get back on both courses. I finally said fuck it and I am not going back. .
LRH is a con job and CO$ is a criminal enterprise as I see it. One last point, most of the “independent Scientologists will deprogram themselves over time and realize that the “LRH tech” is pure horseshit. I am glad that I didn’t pay $$$ to find out that I got some dead aliens floating around my body. . -. .
Mike,
I just wrote you an e-mail, but am also sending as a comment here in case you do not see the mail. Your last comment to me was a result of a real sad misunderstanding. Here’s what I just wrote you:
Mike,
I am sorry to see I am being totally misduplicated. I am eagerly waiting to see the film. I’m trying to get a copy of it here.
My line about “Please don’t translate…” is a pure joke. I was stunned to read what you said:
“This back and forth is now going to end. It serves no purpose at this point. I am saddened by the fact that you think this film should not be seen, even though you have not seen it. That is what the church says. Disappointed in you Dani.”
If you read all I am saying, you would see this is a joke. Of course I want people to see the film. I am the last person to block free flow of data. I read the New Yorker interview with Haggis when it first came out and I was still in the church. I just finished reading the Wright book, “Going Clear.”
I may have some differences of viewpoint with you or Marty but I consider myself a friend and we share the same basic views and goals. To think otherwise or liken me to the church is a gross error.
Please, please, enter a comment to correct what you put there. I will try to keep my jokes and cynicism more duplicatable.
You do know that I admire and support what you do. I have said so publicly on many occasions. To think otherwise and publish this about me is a severe mistake and damages how I am seen by our many mutual friends. So please do add my clarification on this.
Thanks, Dani
Mike, Please do with this as you see fit. I will be grateful to you for a comment that corrects what you just posted, it really does not reflect who I am and what I do daily. Man, I’ve spent $50,000 recently suing them and am winning on this suit. To liken me to them or suspect that I am not with you and Marty on this is a terrible mistake. We must continue to work together. I am yours and Marty’s friend and do want us to continue to support each other.
Thanks, Love (I DO mean it), Dani
Dani after reading all of the comments that have been posted over the last 48 hours I would have to agree that you have been misduplicated. I never got the idea of any arrogance when you mentioned “
fixing”anyone .It was clear you meant fixing their cases and meant no invalidation of anyone as an individual.
Our individual cases do get wrapped around us. Jason Beghe described this very thing in the HBO film. He stated he had achieved a very high state and was ready to leave the church with what he had achieved and the church would not leave him alone and consequently brought his case right back down on his head. This doesn’t mean Jason is any less of a person but it certainly may mean his case needs “fixing”. Just a few sessions would likely recover the states he had achieved and were then lost.
When I walked into the church 35 years ago I know I did need fixing. I was a broken human being with my case wrapped all around me. I would not have made it back with the fix I got with training and auditing.
Love what you, Tami and your team are doing in Israel.
……I would not have made it back without the fix I got with training and auditing.
I was so impressed by the interviews with Mike, Marty, Paul, etc. They were so credible, likable and sympathetic. Really unbelievable what it took to get to there. The still shots of Mike during his BBC appearance(assault?) fresh from the Hole tell their own story of a broken man. The contrast to his healthy, rational, talking head in the interview is the whole story. Alex Gibney is a masterful storyteller.
After watching, here is what I think the impact will be:
The HBO platform will greatly impact Scientology’s “rep”, and make it difficult to avoid the questions and side-eye of the public. The Whale population will shrink, membership will continue to fall. The “church” will limp along with a small base of passionate support. Celebrities will be embarrassed and go “underground”. Leave? hmmmm, all this info has been out there and they are still in. Travolta came across as just a fool, and Cruise is already considered a weirdo to the greater public, especially after Katie Holmes. Getting smoke blown up his a#$ by DM and the cult will be a reliable ego sanctuary. He’s all in. Let’s look for the agreed-to equivalent of “no comment” that all members will now give when asked about Scientology.
Cathartic for those with stories still to tell, disconnected family members, etc. Truth will keep flowing, fear will be replaced with relief, and healing will continue for those who have “escaped”.
Unfortunately, I doubt those still in deep will be impacted.
While revealed as a fiction and scam, I do not think there will be any change in tax status. Most established religions have huge real estate holdings, rely on donations from “whales”, require suspended belief to buy the message of resurrection or eternal life after death, etc. The arc of the Scientology story, from Hana Whitfield’s tales from the Freedom to the images of the Medal of Valor presentation – It struck me that it is a tale not dissimilar to many religions. Early apostles bonding in mission, then the organization growing and evolving. Power corrupting men and the message, the money, the money….Cromwell, the Popes, etc.
Finally watched the movie. I was expecting to be shamed for my 16 years of involvement, but i didn’t feel that at all. I felt relieved, that people would finally get what happened to me and why it was so hard to leave and what a relief it is to be free of the oppression that Scientolgy is.
Thank you Mike, for all you do.
Just watched Going Clear and I can sum it up in three words:
“Scientology: Done, sir!”
Thanks Mike and all who spoke out.
It’s going viral, Twitter is blowing up. I saw that on Tony Ortega’s blog and although I do not have a Twitter account I have been watching the hashtag #goingclear. It is just so great that the side has finally been let down and the world can watch and listen to the horror stories of people that have left the church. What is also great is that Tom Cruise has a new movie coming out and he has to do the press interviews for publicity. He is going to have a really hard time just talking about his movie when the person interviewing him is only going to be interested in what his take is on Going Clear. It will be interesting to watch for sure 🙂
Mia Farrow
11 hrs ·
Scientology leaders bullying outstanding filmmaker @alexgibneyfilm re his doc tonight 8pm EST, HBO #GoingCLear http://t.co/mxpYaHgzvI
Explosive Scientology Doc ‘GOING CLEAR’ To Debut On HBO This Sun.
US3.CAMPAIGN-ARCHIVE1.COM
Just watched the Doc on HBO. IMHO this was well presented but didn’t go far enough. I went through hell and back in the SO when on staff at AOLA. I was hoping for more but what was presented was ok.
Richard, I think there will be more,much more. It is all going to come out. Little,by little. This is the calm before the storm.
Tell your story Richard.
I don’t know where this comment will show up in the list, it’s a reply to Richard Lloyd-Roberts.
Richard, there is so much to tell and only two hours to tell it in. Gibney and Wright both made it very clear from the outset that their works were all about the prison of belief – they primarily wanted to understand the people and why they became Scientologists. The fact that it makes an expose of abuse is a wonderful secondary effect.
The story of what Flag did to Lisa is tragic – no person should have had to go through that. But it doesn’t help explain or show why we all got caught in the prison of belief. What OSA did to Gerry Armstrong is vile, but also doesn’t add to the film’s main thrust. Neither does my story, and likely neither does yours.
But this is the important part – all those other stories, including yours, will have their day too, and someone is going to tell Lisa and Paulette Cooper’s stories on the big screen.
Meanwhile, if you want to tell your story, there are hundreds of people here who will listen, and they won’t just listen they will understand.
When you’re ready. The good folks here aren’t going away.
Thanks for the comments. I realized today that as an insider they has been keeping up to date with all the “goings on” within the Church and those leaving that none of this was really “news” to me. What I forgot is the other billion people that don’t know about the abuses etc. I met at least 20 people today that watched the show who loved it. This is in a state that is dominated by Christians and where Scientology never existed to any degree. I think the impact is going to be global. Now I think about it how do you cram all the damage done by Mis Manage into 2 hours. Maybe I will share my story…
Hey to all the OSA and UTR and others here to attack.
The reason you are here to attack is only because of your own doubts with the church. If you had no doubts about the church you wouldn’t feel a need to come out here and attack us SPs. You would simply go about your business and flourish which is the only way to prove us wrong. But instead you come here to attack us which makes you feel better about yourself temporarily until the next time you’re confronted with something you know is wrong coming from the church itself. Being made to fell less because you don’t have enough money, simply want to get a “wog” pleasure out of life, etc.
Seat down and do the doubt formula towards the church, Miscavige, the materials, and lastly LRH. You don’t really need anything but the info you already have but there are many great ex-scientology websites like https://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/. That contain a very particle guide to leaving should you choose to. But I only want you to consider your life for yourself. You are a capable being? Self-determined? Do you really need an MAA telling you what and who is in-ethics or can you do it for yourself? Get an ethics book out and do the doubt formula towards the above. And the higher up the bridges you are the more capable of doing those things for yourself you are, right? Also, it’s okay to do it on a very soft graduate. Once you make up your mind, realize that yes you can change it but only if you see factual changes not just pressure or reasonableness arguments.
You can still believe in the Tech or LRH and find other like minded people online. Or maybe you want to try the Tech out free from the pressures of the church that’s not a bad idea in my mind.
Always seek the Truth for yourself
Bjorn d.
Mike thank you for your courage.
Mike,
I tried to email this to you but the inbox was full, so I figured this would work…..
I know it’s been awhile since I’ve to touched bases with you (and I doubt you recall out previous correspondence), but I once again appreciate your input in the past. As I watch Going Clear on HBO (which I signed up for just for this) I have to say thank you.
Your commitment and dedication to the truth and getting the word out are admirable and courageous. Now that I’ve moved north to Citrus County, (and after the mass release of Going Clear) I am debating refocusing on Narconon up here in Hernando County, but still thank you for putting up with the random outsider questions of some guy you’ve never met.
Just watched Going Clear on HBO go. You were magnificent Mike. The best. Managed to be real, honest, tell your stories, convey your pain. None of that could have been easy. Thank you.
I saw the whole docu in my Internet browser on that webside that is full of malware. Here in Switzerland and my Computer is still working !
I just watched the documentary–awesome.
It seems to me that Rinder has admitted to having personal knowledge of a very serious criminal act, as wiretapping is a federal offense. He unequivocally answered “yes” to the question asked by Megan Kelly “did the Church wiretap Kidman’s phone?” Someone in their posse must know “who” actually planted the “bug”. Rathbun claims he was told by the Church to place the order to wiretap Kidman’s phone – who did he then go to. This is a felony!!
I would push for either a State agency or the FBI to take a formal statement from them and others, under oath.
In all the attacks that have been brought against Scientology over the years, by some that have had many hours of confidential auditing, not once has the Church ever divulged the contents of a Preclear’s (person being audited/counseled) auditing session – the whole blackmail claim is bogus and disgusting. Marty, Mike and the Headleys (who claims he installed the cameras) all know that auditors often times record auditing sessions for training purposes and this is done SOLELY with the permission of the person being audited. They are the liars for the money!!!
Oh, bullshit. The hate websites that the Church flat-out admitted they put up are loaded with material culled from PC folders, as Mike, Marty, Tory Magoo, Jason Beghe, and anyone else who’s been victimized by one of them can tell you.
Lying for your “church” is still lying. Oooooh, your pants are on fire (with all due apologies to Kings of Leon).
Oh, yeah, considering the handle you chose, are we being graced by the legendary Jojo Zawawi, failed musician and Facebook Police Chief? Hey, Jojo, those pictures of you from the 70s with the two-foot Afro are circulating out here in the wog world. Talk about blackmail material.
OMG, the Troll alert just went into hyperdrive. Right on you OSA bots! I recall what your buddy El Con used to say about the criticism when it would be on the increase………………that just means we are being effective and the SPs can’t stand it or some jibberish similar to that.
Yo Dave,
I think your Idull was spot on about that one! Sounds like you have a gasket problem in the making!
Musicmaker you are dreaming if you think they don’t use pc folder data. It’s published in their magazines and they have given reams of it to the press. Just watch the videos on the Freedom Mag website. They are a vile concoction brewed with the contents of pc/ethics folders. The pungent odor of trust betrayed reeks from their pages and videos.
Perhaps this (your blog statement) is your amends to get back in good standing and keep them from publishing your confidential data but it won’t Musicmaker, not unless you continue to compromise every ideal you hold, betray every relationship you have, fork over all your money and forfeit your own life goals. Then maybe you can hold if off Musicmaker.
musicmaker, time to change your tune.
I am a never in who has interest in how cults operate, how people become involved. I don’t remember how I came across Tony Ortega’s blog, but I started reading back when he was with the Village Voice. I live in San Francisco and saw Going Clear when it was showing here. It was a Monday afternoon (not even the matinee discounted show). There was about 30 people there. I wish those who have been in and have lost so much, family & money & friends & sanity, much healing and love and peace. Mike and Tony, et al thanks for shedding light on this insidious group. And of course, Alex Gibney for the insightful documentary. Tick tock indeed!
Wanhhhhhh!!!! Congrats yall
For Dani:
It is inconceivable to me that you come on this blog, on the day that Going Clear is being sent around the world, when all of us are so excited and celebrating, including all of those who have been tortured, kidnapped and abused by the Kult, barely escaping with their lives, having to start life from scratch with no family or friends or money, since the BEGINNING, and you have the GALL to push the tech?
Are you kidding me?
Your lines of sweetness and kindness and light, saying ‘it is ok if you don’t like the tech, blah, blah, blah,” do not ring true.
you are hurting souls right now Dani. Get off the blog. Do your tech but do not force this on people who have have been HURT AND ABUSED by your precious non religion.
It is particularly arrogant to tell those who bolted to come to you and fix their scars. You sound like a caring person, but one who is still caught up in the madness and sickness.
I don’t hear Dani “forcing” anything on anyone, just expressing opinions based on current experience. We do still have free speech, don’t we? If you are offered something you don’t want, you can just say “No Thank You.”
Dear “Ouraged”,
I have no idea who you are, but all readers here know who I am. I write with my name and picture, you remain hidden.
I don’t know what you have done in Scientology and what is your contribution to bringing down the terror reign of Miscavige. I left the church loudly in 2012 and am currently waging a major legal battle against the Church. All of this is well documented and has been made public on this blog and on Tony Ortega’s.
I know I have directly encouraged hundreds to leave the Church and make public statements of it. There is a constant flow of people from the Church to “indie” centers like ours, for those who still want to practice Scientology. This flow will ultimately bring the Church down, maybe even more than Wright’s book and Gibney’s film. But we definitely work for the same purpose: Get rid of Miscavige and his criminal operation.
At the same time, I am the Managing Partner at Dror Center, where Scientology is being delivered to 60-70 public from Israel and Europe. Fact remains that people have huge gains when the Tech is administered correctly, with love and care. This is a fact. It is a demonstrable and an easy-to-prove fact.
If you are upset with it, it is only beacuse you do not want to confront the truth and possibly have some other hidden agenda. You can write me at: info@drorcenter.co.il for further discussion of this.
To accuse me of “madness and sickness” is hilarious. You’ve never met me, nor ever inspected our work. How can you pass such judgement?
Those who cannot make the distinction between Miscavige’s brutal mob (AKA “The Church of Scientology”) and the hundreds of auditors who deliver Scientology world-wide in a free, caring environment, they are the ones suffering from an A=A=A aberration.
I have no doubt that there is much more auditing and OT Levels being delivered nowadays by “indies” than inside the church. We don’t hear of it because those attacking the church fail to separate the two and because the “indie” guys are too busy delivering and can’t be bothered with all the noise.
Thank you for the long response. I would be very afraid to write you. I know you say you left the org, but….your words still scare me.
I was in a cult. A different cult. So I am VERY sensitive to the words of those who have escaped your brutal Kult. It is extremely hard for me to understand your position. But I do apologize if I came across too strong.
After watching Going Clear last night, it is even harder. My cult was not that disimilar from $ceintology. We had a ‘tech’. We had ‘trainings’. Even tho it was definitely a cult, like $ceintology people were abused and they died, the teachings do have some merit.
But the tech of $cientology grew out of LRH. A man it seems who was insane, abusive, narcissistic and selfish.
And it was your words Dani that got my dander up. If you are just teaching tech to those who want it, why come here and push it on people who don’t?
Mike Rinder,
The names you listed are from 15 to 20 years ago. Present time please.. Completly different game now. Lots of assets, lots of money, established in over 150 countries, psych abuses coming to light – many many upstats involved, many able, winning people with excellent intentions for their fellows – there are millions and millions of scientologists, there maybe 50,000 (as you report) Staff and SO in the world, but millions of others who subscribe to the AIMS of SCIENTOLOGY, what are you offering????? What are your solutions?????
Name them — please Mike, just name 1 viable solution to spiritual well being.
There have been no children in the SO for 25 years, the Church did its very best to feed, cloth, educate and deal with all the SO kids back in the 80’s that were “abandoned” by their parents. These are old stories. After 30 years of eating the SO food, sleeping in SO quarters, wearing the SO clothes – you went out exchange and wanted a free ride while your co members did the heavy lifting on post – you slept at the wheel. Grow some balls, own up. I hope someone sues, your sponsors will leave you high and dry. After 30 years all you 200 guys have produced are “jokes” about the promo. Where’s the MEAT – who who who who tapped Kidman’s phone??? Names please.. The parent(s), who’s kids have trouble speaking to, unfortunately brought it on themselves by their own controlling personality – Yes it is pitiful, makes a great story and I would not want my kids to shun me – but – I SUPPORT MY KIDS, I DO NOT WANT TO RUN THEIR LIVES IF THEY ARE ADULTS – suck it up, dry your tears and get over it.
SUPPORT THEIR EFFORTS and GOALS. Love them for who they are, they will love you back.
Hey Mike, a little food for thought, I’m just killing time before the big event. I have a feeling the CofS will come out on top, I see it as 2 hours of entertainment, a long soap opera type thing.
Remember, on Earth, the first 100 years are the worst!
Troll convention this evening…
Even heroes need lice.
Maybe the trolls had no where to go, so they joined your blog.
Who/What ever 1.1 is, he/she is drinking the hard stuff for sure.
Many upstats? Psche abuses? This is ALL he can muster about the good $Cientology is doing today.
And to actually BLAME parents for their forced disconnection from their children because the parents are too controlling? It is all so ridiculous I don’t know why I am even responding. ugh. double ugh.
There is a tinge of sleazy superiority to 1.1’s post above. A stain that is rubbed all over anything that has to do with $cientology.
Except that real lice have typhus. These lice have Doofus.
“The names you listed are from 15 to 20 years ago. Present time please..”
Xenu is from 75 million years ago and you all trip all over that. Then make a huge deal over the time lapse on the testimony of the Sea Org abuse as if that discounts it all.
What’s up with that?
30 years of eating Sea Org food (if you can call that slop food) . clothes (those funky crappy assed polyester sailor uniforms) and bed (God knows how old) and you fail to mention the 30 years of hard labor on double shifts equaling 60 years of labor in the regular world! In exchange for something he could have gotten in a homeless shelter!
The big event? Check out the from the first review:
” And the evidence of Scientology leaders’ heinous crimes are hard to ignore. After watching this film, it’s no wonder the Church is taking such drastic steps in trying to silence these critics. By the time you finish watching Going Clear, you’ll be left “clear” and hungry for justice.”
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Going-Clear-Review-HBO-Scientology-Shocks-Startles-Enthralls-70989.html
Sounds like your efforts to silence haven’t gone unnoticed. Take a bow for talking trash mouth.
Well hello there trollie poo. Is OSA ordering you to post is is tis your A-E? I’m sorry you still have to lie. I hope so,easy soon you are free to tell the truth. It feels good when you no longer have to spout the lies they feed you.
What I see in you and other trolls is you have lost contact with your own empathy and humanity – and you probably think that’s a good thing, too. It saddens me to think you might be a relative of mine.
Actually, the promo IS the joke. Mike was just pointing it out.
I remember how embarrassed I felt when I stood back and realized just how badly I’d been fooled. Happens to everyone. Hope you recover.
Better troglodytes than you have tried to Dead Agent Mike, and none have succeeded. You will not do a damn thing to change anyone’s mind here about him, so why are you trying? Oh, yeah, always attack, never succeed. That’s what L. Fraud Flunk-Out said.
Hey, Hot Hips (and memo to Shakira, hips do lie), I passed all of my physics courses and have the paperwork to prove it, and I’m a degenerate 1.1 who takes psych drugs. How come your dead lord and master, the Ultimate Big Being, couldn’t do it? Could it be that you take as literal truth some guy who was an utter failure at life in every respect?
I use his books for toilet paper. Too bad you can’t think of doing the same thing at most orgs, because we know for a fact that they’re usually unsupplied with said material.
Now there’s a Truth Rundown for you, OSA.
So my friends didn’t have to disconnect from simply because I said I was thinking of look into the freezone or going setting up a meeting with Dexter????
It must be really heating up in Hemet. Dave is beating the OSA bots into a lather for sure. Go get em trollmates!
@ 1.1
you are Italian, correct?
I’ll bet you’ll never guess how i can tell.
Mike,
I regret the poor choice of words on my part. I certainly did not intend to offend anyone. I explained myself in my reply to a comment by Jens Tingleff. He wrote:
“Haggis and Rathbun need “fixing?” Really?”
to which I responded:
“Jens,
This is a “Scientologese” expression. Sorry if I was not understood. No person needs to be “fixed”. I am in no position to say anyone is “wrong” or “bad”. What I meant is that their “case” or auditing was screwed. ……….. So, a case can be “screwed” by suppressive C/S’ing and can be “fixed” by “Standard Tech”, delivered with love and care.”
In short, we don’t fix people, we try to ease their suffering, “handle their cases”, by means of auditing. And I believe we are quite successful at it.
I try not to be arrogant but I do have a high level of confidence in our ability to handle the misfortunes of life and thus to create a happier future for people.
Hope this clarifies it. Thank you for reading and understanding.
Thanks Dani. Not going to keep this going. This to me still assumes you know what is “wrong” with someone if they don’t agree with you about scientology. In itself this is an arrogant position to take. The other side would say they know what is “wrong” with you that you “buy the bs.” It’s a problem with scientology, it assumes to have the “answers to all of life.” That is inherently arrogant.
Got it Mike.
I attend Yoga classes near home in Haifa. Our Yoga instructor believes firmly that Yoga is the answer to all of life’s hardships and the only way to enlightenment. I love the man and have been going to his classes without fail for five years. So he and I differ on what resolves life. He is 100% confident about his way, I am just as sure about my way.
It’s already been noted that Israelis suffer from an abundance of chutzpah.
Today is an important day and all people involved have my thanks and great appreciation.
I have heard some of “going clear” creators speak, and enjoyed and respected their wise, sane and serious approach. Seems to me, before watching this work, that it is all about finding and then establishing truth. If that is the case, it will make me really happy.
Because the truth DOES set you free. And the truth is what matters, and seeking it IS ASPIRITUAL QUEST. I read comments here, many of them fascinating, so much passion, care, important issues, people try to correct/help others regarding this subject. Why? Just because of a great con story? There have been countless con stories, with MUCH LESS bother. No, I think this whole thing revolves around the good old great and important issue: Spiritual work/development. It is so important it gets us all “on fire”, worried, looking, trying, arguing. I wish people remember… Why they bothered in the first place? Why they came to scnt? Looking for spiritual growth. Why did they leave? couldn’t get it done in the CoS any more! And worse, got abused and used.
Today is the day to cry against, eradicate and stop the huge abuses in the name of spiritual quest, as practiced by the CoS and DM. And rightly so! I just hope that tomorrow, many of us will debate and share their minds and hearts, not on what not to do but on how to get back to the positive and great value of Spiritual work. Whatever the path/system/school. It is a great joy, mind and soul expanding, and a miracle of the heart. It is.
I personally left the CoS very loudly because there was no more true spiritual work there. And worse. And I got back to it as an Indie, and it has been very good. Extremely! (Dror Center, Israel). But as part of my spiritual growth, and knowing what it means and does to me and others around me, I care less which way is taken as long as a path taken and people are happy and expanding, finding themselves and exploring their potential. IT IS SO MUCH FUN TOO! Love and respect to all,
Hemi
Corporate Scientology is already circling the drain. If this movie speeds up the flow, that is only a good thing.
Twitter is heavy with #GoingClear, something like 100+ postings every 30 minutes right now. 🙂
So excited for the show tonight. I saw it, I was in the Sea Org at Flag and Int – the movie info is true!
I hope it deepens that largest crack that exists to force our government to revoke their religious status. That’s my big wish of all the many wishes I’ve made.
I didn’t have the chance to see the hole personally but I witnessed and experienced plenty of other activities that would be considered unacceptable treatment of another human being.
The whole time I BELIEVED that I was being kept “safe” behind those tall gates and the security guards on Old Gillman Highway. I was too young (15) to even know where I was (remember we had to keep it a secret from everyone on earth!? I had no idea myself) but I hated it and wanted to leave. So I stowed away on an IEC van that left in the middle of the night! That place was and still is a prison.
Now I wake up grateful for what I have, happy for the successes my friends and family are working toward, I love animals (trying veganism) absolutely LOVE the planet and try to do things to take care of it.
I read Mike and Tony’s blog every single day (anxious for whatever is being reported).
All of this exposure has given me courage to speak out to everyone I know about my experiences using my real name.
You are both on my Christmas Card lists for sure!
If you want to go on a journey that will make you feel good – try eating healthy and getting OUTSIDE (not the gym) and enjoying the planet and good creatures of all shapes and sizes every day. Sign up for a local trail run and make a plan.
Don’t use your age as an excuse either – we have a guy born in 1940 running around with us at our outdoor boot camp here in Simi Valley California.
PS: it really does make you feel good, feel happier – and there is nothing any one in the church can do to stop you from doing it. Heck, they’ll see you happy and healthier and it will make them mad as a hornet.
Hi Sarita! Wow, so nice to see you posting here under your own name. It’s a great day, if only for that reason. That you feel enough support and strength in numbers to stand tall and make this comment. You go girl!
Sarita,
I got goosebumps, then tears reading your comment.
This is what I hope this movie does. Hundreds, maybe thousands of people saying they escaped and this is true. The voices that were mere whispers have become a roar. I hid in the darkness for so long after I escaped. The Internet has made hiding a thing of the past.
Great to see you out and happy Sarita!!! VWD on leaving Hemet. I would love to here your story ….. if you are interested to share it sometime. Carry on with the good life!
smiling says – could be TC and JT that file, and or the people dragged into the doc. ??
Yeah, could be. Would love to see a lawsuit from them or anyone else. The exposure would be tremendous. And everyting would be court testimony and libel proof for the media all over the world. And just think of the people that could be subpoena’d to testify in addition to Tom and Dave. Tommy D and Jessica. Angie Blankenship. Bob Wright. Mark Ginge Nielson. And on and on….
It would be interesting to see a lawsuit brought by someone mentioned in the movie, that’s for sure. I have a feeling it might have the same kind of effect the Debbie Cook lawsuit did.
Now, just to refresh my memory here:
Debbie wrote an email dissing COS
COS sued Debbie
Debbie testified under oath court, that testimony was damning to Scientology and is public record
COS paid to make the lawsuit they brought against Debbie go away
Hmmm, yes that would be a fun show to watch again, only this time, the person who brought the lawsuit might not be so lucky and be able to make it go away after it blows up in their faces.
Hi Mike,Today I want to send you & your beautiful family an enormous thank you & know that heros come in many forms.You & yours are heros to me.All of us are having an effect,the tone of some of the posts today tells me that.I believe that I can not extricate Ron,dm etc.from The Tech.What happened to me came about because The Tech was applied exactly as written.I will not travel that path again.In Truth & love,ff Ann Watson.
I just want to join the chorus of people saying I hope this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back. I stand with Espi in agreement that today is not the day to debate the pros a n cons of technique, today is the day to hope the scales are tipped.
The ‘camel’ is toast. All that is left is to skid the carcass over into the Hole.
Yo Dave,
They call what you are doing ‘Circling the Drain’ good buddy.
A wee link to a movie review website that has compiled exerts from various top reviews of Going Clear!
Looks like its a resounding critical success!
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/70900
Open Letter to MR,
The WP story about Tracy is touching, and yes, she was never sued. Simply put, Tracy has no money, no media following, resulting in no upside for a lawsuit by the Church; however, regarding HBO, the film makers and the participants, there are very deep pockets to drain. Along with the extremely well crafted legal letters sent to the HBO Executives and their attorneys, in advance of the official release of the film, I am certain that many lawsuits will hail down. MR is a plant!! He has played his OSA cards well and successfully completed his MISSION, you just need to look at how this whole thing played out over the last 10 years – wow!!! MR has rounded up ALL the rats, many with deep pockets, in one big trap. He has duped you all. Tonight is THE night the Church will spring its trap, not just with $2B, but closer to $9B in liquid assets to wipe out many enemies, under the guise of defending the Church from the criminal allegations publicly distributed by the “Going Clear: A Prison of Belief “ film. Through the many hours of depositions to come, MR will provide much proof of the where the real corruption and greed lie.
MR, think about it!!!!!! TC, JT and the other $3B that is available for the asking.
CC. Too many to list.
Arc
music
Hahaha — one of the most entertaining comments of the last couple of years. 🙂
I think “Smiling” (or should named himself better “winning”) tries to be the living proof and support for the concept to measure sanity of a person by the gap between reality and his perception thereof.
Somehow he managed to get so far out in Lala-land, that his perception does not even have the slightest shadow of the real world in it.
The moment David Miscavige sues he finds himself deposed and the millions he spend to silence ex sea org are all wasted as they too will be able to speak out in court and being ordered to do so in depositions.
So, “winning” I really hope DM sues that would be a unprecedented footnuke of epic proportions.
In any case 5 bags of popcorn are waiting at our viewing party tonight.
And Mike, thanks for what you do. I cannot tell you often enough.
And they say that my mind is scrambled because I take psych drugs.
Is this satire or Dr. Evil’s new plot?
“In the months leading up to Going Clear’s Sunday premiere, the Church of Scientology has resorted to the strategy pioneered by founder L. Ron Hubbard: “Never defend. We always attack.” You can see the nadir of the church’s anti-Going Clear tactics in the ludicrous, Scientology-funded Twitter account @FreedomMediaEthics, which has been relentlessly campaigning against Going Clear. For weeks, I’ve had @FreedomMediaEthics tweets pushed into my Twitter feed as paid sponsored content, smearing the names of pretty much everybody involved in the production of Going Clear. (For the record: I spent a fair amount of time clicking around the church’s anti-Going Clear websites, and the attacks are uniformly petty and unconvincing.)”
http://theweek.com/articles/546506/hbos-going-clear-should-final-nail-scientologys-coffin
In looking at several very recent articles and reviews, I see a definite pattern. More and more bold statements about the “uniformly petty and unconvincing” rebuttals from the cherch apologists.
I’m wondering how many people like Mr/Ms smiley actually think miscavige is going to sue anyone when miscavige knows full well that Mike and company are telling the truth?
A few months from now Mr/Ms smiley is going to be totally mystified as to why no law suits have been filed. At this point all manner of mental machinery will whirrr and clank a number of logical justifications firmly into position; protecting and defending him/her from even daring to entertain the idea that Mr. Rinder, Mr. Gibney, Mr. Rathbun et al. just might be telling the truth.
In any case, Mr/Ms smiley, they obviously have the power since everyone, including you, is listening to them.
Wow, another rotting troll!
Yo OSA,
You guys are really getting some TA tonight. Is it really just you or is Mr. Fourfeet Thirteen down in your bunker kickin ass and takin names?
I woke up this morning, and had an epiphany.
Last night, David Miscavige got to try and sleep through that sick feeling in the pit of his stomach that he has inflicted on countless people, over and over and over for decades.
I hope he was and is, too sick to eat. I hope alcohol didn’t block it. I hope it keeps going for weeks and weeks and weeks.
I hope his subsequent uncontrolled emotional response to it drives away even more people working near him. He has no real friends. He has no children. He’s sent away his wife. He literally has no one to talk to, to try to alleviate that horrible feeling. Welcome to your correction cycle, David.
” I hope it keeps going for weeks and weeks and weeks. ”
It’s nothing a couple of gallons of Kaopectate won’t fix! But He will need to change out his thong for a Depends after watching the documentary.
It’s kind of sad that I am not able to watch it in my country. The only way right now is to download it illegaly. I can’t wait to see it. Pathetic scientology contre-propaganda just made me even more interested.
Donations – to you??? from your sheepal, and haters no less. wow mike you have no honor at all. your headline quote was very nice – you should apply that to your own life. see you in court. you stated “yes” emphatically to megan kelly that scio tapped kidmans phone line – a wide open door there.
Like most scientologist, your sense of humor seems to have vanished about the same time your wallet was lifted.
That comment about mailing DVDs to “Opinion Leaders” was about as tongue in cheek as it could be.
The fact that TWO trolls are here today is just another indicator of the fear sourcing through the vampire veins of those inside the bubble.
You would have more success joining your colleagues making death threats on twitter to random strangers who tweet about Going Clear.
Enjoy the movie 🙂
if there’s two trolls here, then who minding the org?
Beastie,
LOL I considered tweeting something about “Going Clear” simply to get someone to make a death threat to me so I could capture the IP for FBI reference, but your childish attempts at derail are so humorous and patently obvious that it’s amazing Mike wasted his time replying to you.
You can bet your ass COS would not have allowed a comment such as this to even make it on their site as they fear the criticism we truth seekers laugh at. I wish you were allowed to watch the documentary tonight. It would do you a world of good.
Calling yourself “Beastie” is such a disrespect to the late, great Adam Yauch (who actually did good things with charities for Tibet and other places, unlike your cult) that your asinine statement didn’t deserve Mike’s response.
This little guy is also Beastie:
https://www.freebsd.org/art.html
IT geek that I am, I have a stuffed toy of him 🙂
People should not insult Beastie
Nice to see a troll out and about for a change.
Yo Beastie,
I’m thinkin that it would be a good time to take in a movie good buddy. You and your other friendly losers that like to read other peoples communications about your Cult must get some real indigestion after awhile. Do you get any sessions to clean up your ARC broken lives …………….. or is it just more rice and beans and an hour or two of tortured nashing in your bunk bed?
“See you in court”. Is that a threat against Mike? Laughter! Lawyers and attorneys world wide must be lying awake dreaming of the opportunities after this HBO release. They will be out scouting tomorrow early morning for victims. You have no idea. Ryan Hamilton is going to look like small fry. I don’t think Mike is the one to worry about being in court.
Right on TO,
There should be a replacement word for ‘ambulance chaser’ for this new situation.
Greta
I’m having difficulties with the quote. On it’s face, yes, I should not make myself unhappy so that others can be happy. Yet if I were a shopkeeper and were to say, “I don’t serve gays, sorry”, wouldn’t I be applying this very approach? Not my problem if gays aren’t happy in this theoretical example, main thing is I’m happy. The CoS could claim the same thing. They disconnect for their own happiness.
Human rights are part of a social contract, enacted so that we can all live better. This contract seems to be coming apart right now. If everyone disconnects from everyone they don’t like, what are we left with? If a client contacts me for work, should I ask what their stance on LGBT or environmental issues is before working with them, or their stance on any number of ethical issues? In an increasingly connected world, this may prove a challenge.
I hope scientology serves as a case study for cult education and the lost cause of disconnection in a hyperconnected world.
We think this is a day for celebrations. A LOT of actions and intentions made this major event possible. Every single person that had the guts to stand up and fight the abuses, the craziness, the violence, the brutal disconnections, the forced abortions, human trafficking and exploiting contributed to this, and all of them are heroes in our agenda.
This thing that we knew as Scientology, morphed into a vicious cult, and dreams have been broken, families have been broken, souls have been broken.
Tonight JUSTICE IS COMING ….. big times.
Thanks to all of you.
Renata & Claudio Lugli
Mike – brilliant idea. I would definitely contribute to that!
A little off topic but perhaps not. Yet another instance of Scientology shenanigans.
http://www.showbiz411.com/2015/03/28/going-clear-about-isaac-hayes-and-scientology-the-real-story
Im so happy for this day. hope that people will open there eyes!
The embarrassment alone of being associated with this organization will
help many start thinking.
You really should consider writing a book someday Mike. Your writing just keeps getting better and better. Thanks for all you have done to help people Mike.
Thank you, Mike Rinder, for all you do.
Your story is one of those things that didn’t make sense while I sorted out whether or not to stay in Scientology (at that time, I didn’t know about Scientology Inc., or “SI”). While I maintained an active role as a Scientologist, I knew you as a spokesman and a high level executive. When I toyed with the Doubt Formula in August 2014, as far as whether I should support/not support SI, the fact that you had left SI just blew me away. With so many people of your caliber who have left, I knew that the truth lay outside SI.
I want to salute everyone having a Going Clear viewing party tonight. Break out the popcorn and caek! Unfortunately, I’m still waiting for HBO Canada to get their asses in gear, but I think it’ll happen up north soon. When it does, I’m subscribing.
I am really jealous of all you in America, hopefully we shouldn’t have to wait too long in the UK before it is aired here. If it does come out on DVD I will certainly be buying it.
Mike, if you had to guess (based on your experience) what is going on in Miscavige’s inner circle today? Lots of screaming? (a given) …..mass postulating that the HBO satellite blows up? Frantic last minute celebrity calls to Shelia Nevins?
Has there even been a scenario that you can recall, where Miscavige has been more up against a wall?
I’m not Mike, Chee, but I think there was only one situation where the Toxic Dwarf was up against the wall like this: Lisa McPherson. If the Net of twenty years ago was the Net of today, and had the LMT and Bob Minton (who I shamefully forgot to include in my No Longer Here List above) had /b/ackup like there is now, there would have been no way he and the cult would have survived the exposure. As it was, didn’t Marty say they spent $30 million on trying to make the situation go away? Today, $300 million wouldn’t have been able to do the job.
Remember Lisa tonight. Remember the Fort Homicide. We still need to do right by her.
What do you hope legislators would do?
Yeap, it is going all over; Mexico is also airing the documental Going Clear and I know of several individuals ready to watch it and share it with others.
Never ceases to amaze me how ‘karin pow’ – aka as DM – always denies everything that any other person states in the media: never happened, is not true, she/he was never trusted, blah, blah, blah.
No use in continue pretending, this film is going to shatter more than one wall.
http://www.wnyc.org/story/scientologys-true-believers/
Leonard Lopate radio show interview of you Mike and Lawrence Wright.
Leonard Lopate who does such intelligent interviewing, he’s one of the two interview shows I listen to almost daily, routinely. Leonard’s show and earlier in the day on the same WNYC radio station, the New York City public radio station. All streaming shows available to download, etc. on the WNYC radio site.
New Yorkers get just excellent radio shows daily.
And in the NYC context, with New Yorkers also having the “New Yorker” magazine, where Lawrence Wright has written for years, now “Going Clear…”, this interview is so welcome. I don’t live in NYC, but that’s also where Tony Ortega is, and the atmosphere of intelligent understanding of the world is represented on this show.
Covered so much ground in a short time.
Thanks so much Mike for all your years of getting to this point of telling inner history and summarizing Scientology so well.
This really helps the outside world get Scientology’s recent history straight.
I personally have waited for years to see things get up to this point, where intelligent ex members appear with excellent NY journalists and writers being interviewed.
Lawrence Wright gives constantly more details in each public interview he does, just amazing material, and your answers were excellent Mike.
Chuck Beatty
ex Sea Org, 1975-2003
Thanks for the link Chuck.
Today’s not the day to be snarky or malicious or even start needless arguments (I restrained from commenting on Dani’s post, which is miraculous for me). Today is Celebration Day, a day we’ve been looking forward to for years. It’s a day to remember the people who’ve suffered and are still suffering. It’s a day to remember the people who’ve fought against the tyranny of the cult. It’s a day to unite around our common cause. Today, it doesn’t matter if you’re Ex, Indie, Old Guard, Anon, or Anti. It only matters if you took up arms in the fight. Today, we see our work fulfilled in a way that was unimaginable only a few years ago.
Today, the Fourth Dynamic Engram known as the Church of Scientology takes a fatal body blow. And we’re here to see it. We can only wish that others could have done so as well. Shaun Lonsdale. Ida Cambrun. Denise Brennan. Lisa McPherson. So many others…this day is for them as well.
My only regret? That HBO had moved it to a date and slot that didn’t compete with Wrestlemania. I can live with that, though.
+ 1000 Espiando! Let’s celebrate our wins.
One of your best comments ever Espi. Perfect thought for today. Thank you.
Thank you for that Espiando. Most of the people on this blog have bled emotionally, financially and in some cases physically, in their journey to this moment. Your comment captures the moment.
I will unite under that banner! Lets have our win and satisfaction. This day marks the turning of the tide, D-day for DM and his cronies!! I read here because Mike and commentors follow and keep exposing the RCS better than anywhere else. Tony does an important job too although he is a never in and Mike breathed upper level management for a long time. That reality I appreciate.
Dani and Tami you guys are braver than I could ever be, your reality has my respect and place. Tami I saw you recently and the ARC radiated in tidal waves from your space, thats real for me!
The only beef is that I cannot watch Going clear in S.africa yet! Our version of US cable does not have all of HBO’s offerings BOOOO!
Maybe someone with some influence or good commline to HBO can ask them after a reasonable amount of time (to make the neccessary money) to release that going clear for worldwide viewing? As an exception.
Cool detail from that Washington Post story about Tracy Ekstrand — when asked to comment, the COS actually brought up “Going Clear” even though the reporter was asking about something else:
‘Pouw, a spokeswoman for Scientology, wrote in an e-mail that no one in her office has met Ekstrand or heard of her. “We aren’t naive – this is a publicity ploy orchestrated to promote Alex Gibney’s propaganda film,” Pouw said. “Why else would you be asking us, out of the blue, about something that is beyond ancient history?”’
Isn’t this kind of amazing? Dave Miscavige, writing (as Mike says) under his nom-de-plume “Karin Pouw,” simply can’t stop himself from obsessing about Gibney and his movie. Here is a major newspaper giving him an opportunity to make some credible statement on behalf of the church — and he uses it, once again, to remind everyone of “Going Clear.”
He also, incidentally, reveals his own extreme paranoia — accusing the Washington Post of being part of an “orchestrated” conspiracy to promote the film — and shows an appalling degree of callousness by dismissing a child’s disfiguring injury as “beyond ancient history.” But that’s our Dave — always true to himself, and nothing but himself.
To paraphrase the musical South Pacific:
“There is nothing like a Dave.”
I’m gonna wash that Dave right outta my hair…
And send him on his way!
Just a SMALL peek into the insanity of the S.O. under El Con. This insane cult is dying faster under Miss Cabbage. I remember in the late 70’s when S.O. children ran wild around Hollywood, unsupervised, unschooled, barely fed and dirty, stealing from local merchants, etc. All part of El Con’s evil little world he built.
Well who will DM blame on not stopping HBO?
Some heads are going to roll.
Sorry to be crass but fuck Dave.
I’ll drink to that!
Bottoms up mate.
Zero hour 8pm est.
I wonder how miscavige plans to spend his evening. I think he’s going to watch it.
the tale of scientology is truly epic.
Menu for this evening: pizza, soda, cake, coffee, ice cream.
I wonder what DM is doing right now. Is he frantically penning letters to HBO, and parent company? Is he extra violent today? Is he packing up his motorcycles? Is he shaking and crying? Is he watching the clock tick-tock?
He’s walking around with a hunted look and major missed withold phenomena and ‘without clothes’.
He is in his pink pyjamas on his Hello Kitty phone with BFF Tom “Missile” Cruise, trying to have him make this go right, darnit !
There are discarded bottles of scotch everywhere in the room, and Lou is sobbing in the corner.
Time for li’l Dave to do a reality show with the Kardashians.
Maybe he can do a live auditing demonstration …….. like El Con used to do, and then slap the pc to get him to wake up!
He’s probably ordered crates of whiskey to drown his sorrows.
This documentary reminds me of Bane (The Dark Knight Rises) speaking to the sheeple:
“I am Scientology’s reckoning, here to end the borrowed time you’ve all been living on.”
While being escorted away from my work area at the Gold Base, in 1984, I was made to stop and meet David Miscavige in his office, who swiftly announced to me with one of his normal petulant smirks that I had been assigned to the RPF.
And there I was, standing in front of the bully who had physically assaulted me in Editing, some weeks before, and who was now offering me a path to redemption…
But before I was escorted out of his office, Captain Bully was kind enough to ask me if I was finally going to start applying ethics in my life.
“Yes Sir!”, I replied.
I took some months, but I did finally get my ethics in…
I left.
Dave needs to do his liability formula to be allowed to be in the RPF’s RPF.
BP – Congrats.
That’s fascinating BP. I was kicked out for saying that you guys (in editing & mixing) were NOT out ethics. DM wanted me to write up declares on you guys and I told him to F off.
Thank you so much for your blog and for everything that you have done, Mike!
It looks as though we are finally embarking into real planetary clearing, with all those many people of Earth asking scientology: “Has a withhold been missed?”
HBO Going Clear Party Menu
David Miscavige platter—-Fried Chicken
Karin P. Plate—- Hot dog with Kraut
Pizza, Chip/dip, goodies
Don’t forget the sheep dip and the spiked kool-aid.
I’m looking HBO here in Switzerland for free with this link:
[According to some reliable commenters here, this link contains malware, o I have removed it]
works nicely !
Roger, I clicked this link and my anti-virus gave me a flag on it and my Malwarebytes anti-malware also gave me a “malicious website” flag, so I didn’t proceed. I’m here in the USA.
Spirit
It works nicely on my Computer 🙂
I got a good adblocker.
OK, I’ll check out ad blockers.
It works nice on my computer, too.
I cannot express properly in words what it meant to me that this movie was made – thanks to all, Mike, Marty, Tony, Lawrence, Alan and all the others who participated.
Whatever the results of the movie per se, I believe it will start an avalanche of stories poring forth and this can only be good.
As for those who don’t watch it, there’s nothing more to say. It’s all been said.
Mike, thanks to you and all the others who contributed to this film and made its HBO debut today possible. This film won’t be the last investigation of Scientology by journalists and artists. But it will be the most authoritative and widely seen description of Scientology for some time to come. Thank you again.
Hats off to the many brave individuals who stood up, exposed themselves, withstood threats and personal danger, to tell the truth of the criminality of Miscavige and his operation.
Scientology will be all the better for it, once it is free of the perversion and criminality committed by the Church of anti-Scientology. I know many will disgaree with me, yet I see, in our daily work at Dror Center, the wins and benefits available from Hubbard’s Technology.
It pains me to read some of what Paul Haggis wrote or Marty Rathbun contends. My reality is that they have never had the opportunity to enjoy the Tech delivered correctly, with passion and caring for the individual. We, at Dror, could fix Paul Haggis and Marty and many others, but I know the betrayal of Miscavige’s operation was so severe, they will never give us a chance.
But we have the stats and daily facts to prove we can help and we can improve a person’s condition significantly. And we are much better at it than any psychologist, psychiatrist or other practitioner. I would love to be challenged on what I claim.
When I interviewed with Tony Ortega , in July 2012, after my expulsion, I offered him to come for some auditing. He has yet to show up. Others who have been damaged by the Church are welcome, free of charge.
Hubbard may have been a nut, or worse, a fake. He’s been dead for 30 years, so I don’t really care about him. The Laws of Relativity aren’t valid because Einstein was a nice guy. I once proposed that Hubbard’s name be whited-out from all Scientology materials and then their workability will not be confused by his personality.
And I do think Hubbard erred severely when insisting Scientology be labelled a religion rather than a philosophy or a branch of psychotherapy or a study of life. And I think he should have encouraged academicians to teach and research Dianetics in the Psychology Departments of universities.
We, “Free Scientologists”, carry the heavy burden of practicing and spreading Scientology despite the huge damage caused by Miscavige, possibly assisted by some of Hubbard’s folly. This is a burden we carry, but see a wealth of rewards, daily.
Dror now delivers the full Bridge, even the ridiculed “OT 3 – The Wall of Fire”. It is weird, but results from these actions are no less than miraculous. I shamefully admit, I myself do not grasp how it works, but the fact reamains that it visibly and undeniably does work.
OT Levels did not work for Haggis, Marty and many others because they were purposely mis-administered by criminals. Like medicine practiced on Jewish twins by Dr. Josef Mengele in Auschwitz (forgive the analogy, but then, I am also a Jew.)
I do believe Scientology will continue to be practiced and will steadily expand, long after the “Church” becomes a failed curiosity, studied in history classes of forgotten freak “religions”.
Dani, in time, the truth of the OT levels and why things read and run WILL be known. And what will be revealed is not that what you are running is true.
What will be revealed is that Ron concocted a form of dream therapy whereby people are invoking concepts that have mental energy attached.
It is a form of dream therapy. The down side is that a pc is left with false notions of the cause of personal problems. That is leaving people with untruth.
In that regard you are helping the lie continue. I believe in your goodness. I do not believe in what you are perpetrating. The OT 3 is a lie and fantasy cooked up by Ron when he was doped up. That is the source of OT 3.
I hope one day you can see through this lie.
And Dani, you may think that people are going free with OT 3, but just see where they are years later.
Marty Rathbun was the go to auditor so your judgement of his technical prowess is a down right falsehood.
There are countless folks who did the OT levels all the way up to OT8 that now see it as a complete sham.
Are they all a product of out tech?
Or could it be you are still in a bubble?
I ask this respectfully as your own personal goodness seems obvious to me.
It is possible you are continuing a lie.
Warm Regards,
Brian
And Dani, I could not let this rest.
You said:
“And we are much better at it than any psychologist, psychiatrist or other practitioner.”
This to me is evidence of your still being affected by Hubbard’s way of thinking and being.
Scientology is a philosophy not a science of the outer world. Hubbard is not dead. Scientology is about behavior, world views, cosmologies and thinking.
It is not an invention or physical product that CAN be separated from its creator or inventor.
You teacher, your guru, your inspiration for spiritual advancement was a dark creepy guy who harmed people.
And his ideas are still in people’s minds. You are continuing the falsehood.
Hey Brian, you make a lot of points. I don’t think I can address them all.
If OT 3 is a form of “Dream Therapy” then Hubbard owes a lot of royalty money to whomever invented it. I did OT 3 at Flag in 1989 and it was, for me, a powerful adventure. I have then spent 15 years on “NOT’s” (OT 5, 6, 7) and feel it has made me better and happier.
Prior to Scientology, 1975-1980, as a young restless man, I spent 5 years with a psychoanalyst in Haifa. He did me a lot of good, at least I had someone to talk to about some very embarrassing stuff kids are up to. I also did tons of meditation, Yoga, Zen and drugs. Of all these techniques, I find “Hubbard’s Auditing” to be the most workable.
I am in no bubble, the people now coming to Haifa from abroad are neither nuts nor blind. If it’s good for them, who am I to argue. The proof of the pudding is, ultimately, in the eating.
I like your point, Brian. Scientology can have a person believe their problems are the results of things that happened trillions of years ago on a galaxy far far away. That belief causes a dependence on an agent who wants ALL your money, ALL your heart and ALL your mind. In truth, our problems are due to BELIEVING our counter-productive thoughts and feelings which are merely habitual thoughts forms. The real results happen when we become adults and break the habit of believing our habitual erroneous thoughts, not looking for fantasized recollections in the Star Wars universe.
Dear Brian,
Thank you for stating your opinion.
IMHO, the truth is reached on a personal basis through experience, observation, making decisions and taking actions based on these decisions. I doubt if the truth can be reached by a general statement or opinion.
You state: “Ron concocted a form of dream therapy whereby people are invoking concepts that have mental energy attached.”
So, you do agree there is some mental energy attached. Good. Me too. So where this energy comes from?
I did my OT III 5 years ago. I feel great ever since. I’m helping others to get through this level and they do just fine. They have more life energy, less body pains and do better in life in general.
Should I tell them that they are living a lie? That they are fantasizing? Why? Sorry for oversimplifying, but if you eat an ice-cream and it’s tasty for you, would that be a truth or illusion?
Now, regarding “living in a bubble”. I do not owe anything to LRH or even the God. I do what I do because I want to. Because I think it’s right to do. I’m doing Scientology myself and I practice it on others just because it works and it is FUN for me and for others. The moment it stops working for me will be the moment I”ll stop applying it.
If the Tech wasn’t workable I don’t think there were so many strong and emotional debates over it. You can’t be ARC Broken with something that you did not have prior ARC with. And I think many people had HUGE prior ARC with the Scientology Tech. That’s why, in my opinion, they became so ARC Broken when they got deprived by the Church of the real and genuine Tech. I don’t think there are so many debates over other practices. At least I ‘m not aware of it.
I see, Brian, that you care about other people. You want them to find the truth. However, the only way they can find the truth is by experiencing it themselves and by reaching their own opinions and conclusions.
Regards,
Aviv
As I said — this back and forth is a complete waste of time…
Brian,
I’m just curious. What scientology have you done? I read a few of your comments but it would help me understand your comments better if you would say your own personal experience in the subject of scientology. Such as, have you received auditing? Given auditing? Taken training in scientology? Worked in a scientology organization? What is your background with the subject? I’m not asking these questions as any kind of challenge to you, I sincerely would like to know. It would help me understand your conclusions about the subject. Maybe you have said somewhere else but I don’t read too many comments.
Me personally, I did all of these things I list over a period of 30 years with mixed results, some good, some bad, and varying success. I see that Dani has given his background in the subject and his results. How about your’s?
Brian, unfortunately you do not seem able to notice the ‘bubble’ that you are evaluating from. Your opinion is only your opinion. You have no right to force it on another.
And, BTW, truth is a double edged sword.
Avivdror – I thought yours was a great reply.
You speak the truth, Brian. Thanks for saying this. So many still tippy toe around Hubbard (his drug addiction), OT 3 and the OT levels in totem. It’s the brainwashing that we are still throwing off, IMO.
It has to be said. There are good people still under this illusion that it’s good and clean. Hope they wake up soon and get it!
Hi Brian, what I’ve realised is no matter that you speak the truth and are one of the few who’ve have the courage to face it, Hubbard’s supporters won’t go away. He’s in their heads, their lives and their dreams.
I’m learning, not easy to do, to try to stay away. It’s so frustrating to listen to those still hooked. I’m even thinking of not reading any blogs for my own salvation.
Scientology is such a small group of people but those of us who were in the bubble still think it’s important in the bigger scheme of things. It’s not. It is only to us few.
Haggis and Rathbun need “fixing?” Really?
Jens,
This is a “Scientologese” expression. Sorry if I was not understood. No person needs to be “fixed”. I am in no position to say anyone is “wrong” or “bad”.
What I meant is that their “case” or auditing was screwed. It is a long subject, I can elaborate but not here or now. The auditing Paul Haggis received, per what he says in Wright’s book and in the New Yorker interview was gross “out-Tech” and totally suppressive. Typical Miscavige work. There are many more such examples, say Lisa McPherson and many more. Myself included in my last years at Flag, on OT 7, 2005-2010. I am even suing them for this. They promised me “Standard Tech” and cheated me. You can read my lawsuit on Ortega’s blog.
So, a case can be “screwed” by suppressive C/S’ing and can be “fixed” by “Standard Tech”, delivered with love and care.
It can be fixed by a caring and trained professional with no Scientology thrown into the equation or by the individual himself.
Certainly there is a lot of powerfull knowledge in Scientology that cannot be denied. Too bad it is associated with all the shameful things being done by the Church over the years. Lets have a new start for those who have sincere intention of improving themselves and others with Scientology.
Dani et al…….it’s called brainwashing. Psychologists and psychiatrists have looked at Dianetics and declared it bunk (as well as brainwashing).
Why do you think Hubs went after them so hard (Psychlos, etc.)? He went after them because they dared to disagree with his ‘brilliance’.
There is no way the Xenu story helps anybody with anything, except that it could have been made into a ‘so bad it’s good’ science fiction movie……..oh wait….
Dani, to use your analogy…….what if Mengele had made some true and real discoveries with his gruesome experiments? Does that justify the experiments? Sure, perhaps some of the stuff LRH ‘borrowed’ from others works some of the time, but I think if you dissected LRH’s ‘work’ and researched where he got his good ideas from, you might get more use out of them.
Here’s an example……..LRH’s ‘the overt does scream loudly in accusation’ ………even Shakespeare had a version of that…..(methinks the lady doth protest too much). I think your idea about removing LRH’s name is an excellent idea. Unfortunately, you would also have to remove a lot of the tech.
If the OT levels are still being portrayed as truth, it is the duty of every rational person to expose these lies.
The theory of OT 3 demands that you define other religions and our culture as a product of an electronic torture.
OT3 relegates thousands of years of cultural and societal advances as nothing more than R6 dramatization.
Being part of this culture I find it singularly repulsive that any rational human being can actually buy into this hypnotic drivel.
It invalidates our civil society and leaves its believers with a cosmology of make believe.
This should be fought everytime and all the time.
To equate one’s personal problems with being the victim of Ron’s space aliens is not the road to truth.
Being relieved by an OT session and then equating that relief by assigning cause to an outside source, BTS and druggie BTS…………
IS THE PHILOSOPHY OF NON RESPONSIBILITY AND UNQUESTIONABLE DELUSION.
Moti-Dori Center, I’m intrigued to know what powerful knowledge there is in scientology. I would love for somebody to point out specifically what knowledge in scientology is powerful.
Roger, I suggest you check out “Closing Minds: How Scientology’s “Ethics Technology” is Used to Control Their Members” by Jefferson Hawkins. Underestimating the strength of the psychological hold that the criminal organisation known as the”church” of $cientology has over its victims is an easy mistake to make.
To me, that power is the real power of $cientology, and it’s not a friendly one.
Dani, the way you communicate, with no make wrong but with your points well made, reminds me of why I got into Scientology so many years ago. To me you exemplify what Scientology is, or possibly what it should or could be. Something either works for a person and makes him better and happier and more able, or it doesn’t. I agree that the personality and character of the person who discovered it or compiled it or whatever is not relevant, and you will see me at Dror Centre someday.
Dani, thanks so much for posting here. I agree with you 100%. I was just telling my friend the other day, that in the future, when I retire, I will probably come to your center for some auditing.
Although I wasn’t overly fond of OT3, I loved OT7 and OT8, and the vast majority of the auditing I received.
I also enjoyed auditing others and saw great results doing so.
I also believe LRON to be a bonafide nutjob, albeit a brilliant nutjob, and I certainly don’t agree with a lot of his policies.
That is one of things I love about being declared – I can think and say whatever I please – and still enjoy the parts of his technology that I find workable.
And none of the above is going to prevent from doing everything in my power to have the abusive policies of the cherch legislated out of existence.
Shel,
Thank you for your very kind reply. I do hope you retire soon. But then, you and Sara can also come on vacation. And if you claim you were damaged by the Church, your auditing is free.
You say OT 3 was not great but you loved OT 7 & 8. Others tell me OT 3 was a blast, OT 8 a drag. So wins and benefit are individual and vary greatly from one person to the other.
If it weren’t for Miscavige’s horrendous crimes, nobody would even bother with what was Hubbard like. Since the Church has given Scientology such an atrocious reputation, people look for the source of the monstrosity.
So yes, we must get rid of the Church fast and then hit the “reset” button. If you, my American friends, can’t take ’em out through the courts (see Garcia’s failure) please get them legislated out of existence.
Dani, if some people like OT 3 and some think OT 8 was a drag, how is this standard?
How is the promise of standard outcome illustrated here, as scientific as you say, and there are different results?
Scientofic and mathematical laws are not open for personal opinions and feelings?
To equate Scientology as a science and then accept that some like this and some don’t like this is evidence that you are not using the word science correctly.
I would consider that an MU
And also the product of believing in Ron as that was his “ape in the taxi,”
I am not countering any spiritual gains you have made by looking within.
I do it every day for free I’m meditation.
Anytime we go within to look we can find something to cognize on.
That is out ability, not Ron’s discovery.
This sort of debate is a total waste of time. He will simply respond that you made his point. They were NOT standard. And that you may think its science and he does not. Neither of you is going to convince the other, so why keep going?
I like Espiando’s comment today. Why not just let everyone be what they want to be — critic, believer, KA drinker, hater or whatever and enjoy the fact that something that EVERYONE agrees is bad is getting some measure of comeuppance today.
Hallelujah Brother Rinder. Can I get an amen?
Absolutely right Mike! And allow me to join others who have thanked you for all you have done to make this a reality. Today is a day of celebration. And Scientology being the paradox that it is, loyal Scientologists (like myself) and haters of Scientology (whom I respect) alike are celebrating today.
And I would like to also thank Marty Rathbun who has helped us enormously and has paved the way out for Tami and myself and many others.
Today’s victory is the toil of thousands and will benefit millions.
Now, how the f— do I get to see this in Israel? Any tips will be appreciated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0&feature=youtu.be
Last thought:
Thank you Mike first off for allowing this exchange. The beauty of it is that we can have a free open conversation about things that, in the past, would have us all declared.
I appreciate all the comments. We have truly communicated freely. We have shared with each other our experience as we see it.
I would consider this a success not a failure. Dialog about the tech was outlawed with fear of punishment.
We are in a better world now. I hope I did not upset anyone. And I am glad to have given and received in this communication.
Warm regards to to Dani and may you always help to bring happiness to others.
May all beings be happy:-))
The church and the Tech are two distictly different things. When I was in the Church, until July 2012, I thought the two were the same. Ever since leaving the Church, I have not stopped to deliver the Tech to my pc’s and to C/S other auditors on their pc’s.
The results on pc’s, since we left the church, have become even more powerful and faster because we are constantly ridding ourselves of the evil application of the Tech as enforced in the Church. This is still an on-going process. We continue to study more of the Tech, major sections of which have been perverted or hidden by the Church. As a result, our application keeps improving.
Whereas Dror ceased expanding under the Church, it is now steadily expanding. I now have pc’s and pre-OT’s from Israel, Russia, Germany, the U.S. These guys have left the church for no results and are now winning and grinning.
After working as an auditor 34 years, I can say it is a fun game again!
I am thankful to the hundreds who have left and have helped us with materials and training.
Dani –
I like LRH. I think he’s a great guy. His sense of humor is, in my opinion, vastly underrated. Just as Scientology has suffered, so, sadly, has Hubbard. When you look at what he accomplished, it is astounding.
Miscavige is an entirely different matter. I think I see that a large battering ram is crushing in Miscavige’s castle doors. I thank the many dedicated and brave people with the battering ram.
At the same time I thank the people with the battering ram, I must also thank you and the hundreds if not thousands like you who will not permit Scientology proper to be burned along with the church. I know for a fact that the original LRH Bridge of the 1970’s works to produce full OT VII exterior at will with perceptics. The EP for original OT VII is really a huge understatement. What one gets in understanding makes exterior just superficial, really. And the logic and data of Scientology in its definition of life and its function, is plainly evident to me. It is a matter of perception. But one must do the entire gradient of the original Bridge.
And it is a matter of understanding, setting a good example, and continuing. Those who may be curious are welcome. Some will do better than others, in my opinion – it does, after all, seem to be the way of things. I try to keep things in perspective. Men were killed for discovering that the Earth is not the center of Creation. Sometimes, it is better to keep quiet, and be patient. I have a tiny bit of my own experience, pre-Scn, and believe me, academia is not open to something that threatens to upset their paradigms, and their bread and butter. Any who would get serious about it would warp it into something unworkable in very short order, by trying to “work it into” their practices. It’s something like the General Electric / Westinghouse battle – alternating current or direct current.
Outside of the arrogant pomp of blogs, In my own personal experience, Scientology is always well received, but not everyone is immediately interested in pursuing it. The funniest thing I run into is people who instantly brighten up just glancing at it, get it, and then ask, “Is this for free?” (A bit of a jump there, just a bit out-gradient. I suppose I could say, “Yes, of course! Happy I could help!”)
Just a bit of a sticky wicket with the church under Miscavige.
Dani and Tammy Well done on your wins with your pcs. I think the haters on this blog who say the OT Levels are a sham are people who have never done the OT Levels. One has to be able to differentiate the tech from the man. Yes Ron went insane in his later years. Miscavige controlled all comm to and from him and he messed with his comm lines and messed wit the comm he gave him. So Miscasvige has some culpability. But Ron had his own personality failings and faults. I don’t agree with much that Ron did. But I have seen the tech work on myself and others, OT Levels included. If someone is not doing what someone else considers to be “doing well in life” (by the other person’s standards), it is easy to point fingers and give “reasons why” such as “he was f’ed up on the OT Levels or by the church of Scn…” But that Why is a specious as the Why being harsh toilet training. IMHO for Scn to survive, the corporate church of Scn has to come down completely and the reformation will happen in the outside. And if haters don’t want to do it they don’t have to. But just curb your enthusiasm for hating please!
Again, VWD to Dani and Tammy and your crew at Dror.
cindy, “haters” is a thought-terminating cliché and a label much like “SP”. It does nothing to dispell the idea that scientology contains the seeds of a totalitarian cult in which all contrary opinion is crushed from the get-go.
Geeze thanks Cindy! Glad to know I am back in the haters club due to my viewpoint of the OT levels. But I am OK with labels these days and I take no offense to your viewpoint. We are all entitled to have one and to communicate about it.
Enjoy the documentary and keep swingin!
Thank you Nickname & Cindy for your words of encouragement. We apply what works and we see great results.
Mike is right, there is too much debate of it. You do LRH’s Tech if you enjoy it or can meditate, go to a shrink, fast or get high, if that works for you.
We have people come and go, some return some not, and it’s never a problem because nothing is enforced.
I owe good service to those who come and pay, and nothing to anyone else. We are free, unmanaged, except for self-discipline.
Scientology is fun for those who choose this game and the rest are totally right in doing something else.
Dani, ‘enjoy the tech delivered correctly?’ What a fucking joke. I made it as far as OT3 X, and let me repeat someone else’s challenge – Show Me A Fucking Clear!, show me the super powered thetan – the homo novice. Much more harm than good and if you can’t see that you need some more ‘processing’.
Where and when did you do OT III X? When were you last doing well?
WOW!!! Zola, you sound angry. And I dare say you’ve used the f— word twice too many. I believe myself to be a genuine Clear, you are invited to come check me out. I am not being sarcastic, I feel great about life and with myself and my surroundings, so to myself I qualify as a Clear.
You sound like you’re mad at me, I have no idea why. I have never harmed you or anyone else to the best of my judgement. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Dani: Whether there are gains to be had with Scientology or not is certainly open for debate. That being said I personally have zero interest in availing of myself of gains from a technology created by a pathological liar who tried to destroy Paulette Cooper and so many others.
Hi Kevin, I respect what you say and regret that the good of Scientology was shadowed by so much evil. It is true that LRH shot himself in the leg many times over. That the Tech still exists, outside the church, and is still available, is actually a miracle in itself.
Kevin, a man after my own heart. How can one accept anything as true when “produced”by a pathological liar, for one, or a criminal and someone so beligerent that he became a dangerous criminal. He also refused contact from Mary Sue and then dumped her after she went to jail for him.
His own case was a mess which scientology processing didn’t handle.
This is where I’m coming from. I won’t do another thing in scientology. I won’t touch it. I’m not angry, just stating a fact.
Dani, LRH was a product of 100% Standard Tech. He ended up trying to commit suicide and was a druggie. You are stating that YOU understand and apply his tech FAR better than He. FORGET DM. I know HUNDREDS that received “the tech” under LRH and were NEVER any more capable than an average “wog”.
Just wanted to interject some omitted truth after reading what you posted.
Auditing can make you feel good for a couple of days. After that? Your life is still the same and so are you. BUT LRH lied to us about what we could expect from it. It is a con. Sorry. But it is.
You are correct Jonty. Which is also why I didn’t get an answer to a VERY straight question. A straight/honest answer would require acknowledging the scam.
Dani, I agree if Scientology auditing is used with compassion and the goal to help another person it makes all the difference to the approach of the CO$.
But then again one cannot overlook the very basic fault of it all by stating: ‘Hubbard may have been a nut, or worse, a fake.’ But yet anything in Scientology is so because Ron said so. As long as red on white and green on white are the final reference for you, you are directly tied to that man, not matter what other statements you make.
And then you are right again, there are principles, concepts and techniques that are workable to the degree that a person feels better after a session and I myself can attest to that. If we would be satisfied with that we would not need to audit, there are drugs that create the same effect, – feeling better or more energetic. The point is the long term effect. And while I have yet to see anybody who has long term improved with Scientology alone I have seen more examples where Scientology has actually destroyed people. One look at the Sea Org and the current population of the CO$ their delusions and nuttiness will show that. Now this ‘negative’ proof could be invalidated by the misapplication argument, but yet there is the lack of positive proof.
I think your challenges to Tony Ortega and Marty and your comment you can “fix” them is the worst I have ever read from you. I find it arrogant and condescending and I wish you had not said, as you are a good man.
In my eyes the task for the freezone has to be to move Scientology from dogma to scientific methodology. Separate it from “Ron said it” and focus on the underlying concepts, theories and techniques and apply full scientific scrutiny to it.
So I challenge you as a tech trained person to write a thesis paper on ‘Scientology Therapy’. This should cover the general theory, the basic guiding principles, standards by which progress is evaluated long term and short term and so forth. I can offer you my help to play the ‘advocatus diaboli‘ in compiling it. If that is done you would have a paper you could share it with academia as you state Ron should have done.
10 red volumes, years of listening to tapes and indoctrination techniques are a barrier that will kill the working principles of the subject, – so they exist -, by themselves.
To my Knowledge nobody has written a scientific thesis paper by any standards before, in part because ‘they’ lack the conceptual understanding and are too much indoctrinated into dogma. “They” are Class 8 and Class 9 I had the chance to discuss and observe. And in another part that would be squirreling in Scientology as nobody is allowed to express and discuss Scientology data than source.
To shake the nuttiness, meanness and fakeness of LRH it requires more than lip service. It requires a change in attitude. ‘I know it all and can fix you’ is not going cut it. If there is anything of value it should be preserved and it can be done with a humble approach like writing this thesis paper for others to discuss.
Great comment Gerhard. Thanks.
Very well stated Gerhard.
That’s a great idea, actually.
One thing that would have to be made clear in writing a scientific paper about it though is to make it clear what it is you mean about it being “workable”. I’ve seen many indies claim that, and I’m sorry guys, but I have no idea WTF it means except some vague stuff about feeling better or euphoric, which are things I can get with any meditation technique, after a nice run or watching an enjoyable movie.
You cannot write a paper on a therapy by just claiming it works better than so-and-so without specifying what it actually works for. After that, you’ll need numbers, and not stories, to make your point. A few people claiming “It worked for me while therapy A did not work” will not do.
@Kemist, you are correct and your point is well taken. The first think such a paper would need to address is how to define “workable” or “progress” or “improvement” in a person. Cocaine I hear is very workable in some aspects to give a person a temporary high, many normal slackers are apparently able to party all night long with it. 🙂 But that temporary high is not the whole story, even if the drug addict tries to convince you it is all that matters.
In my life I have found there is reality and a perception of reality. All a person ever sees is their perception and that is what they act on. Some peoples perception is closer to reality than others. And typically a person has a better chance to live a happy life the closer the gap between reality and his/her perception is.
This could be a basis for a criteria. Does the process/therapy moves a persons perception closer to reality/truth or does it move a person closer to delusion and failing perception of the real world. This tells you something about the folks in the bubble.
Having a grin on ones face after session is really nice, but not a criteria for improvement or worsening of a person.
Funny thing, when I mentioned that in a indie group I got instantly PTS declared. 🙂 The mechanism to delude people are still in full swing, not only in the CO$.
Dear Gerhard,
I think you have misunderstood me when you say:
“I think your challenges to Tony Ortega and Marty and your comment you can “fix” them is the worst I have ever read from you. I find it arrogant and condescending and I wish you had not said, as you are a good man.”
Tony Ortega has been covering Scn for over twenty years, so I proposed to him he should experience some of it. That’s all. Not attempting to fix him.
Tens of friends I have spoken to, who have spent many years in the Sea Org, have had no auditing at all and hardly any Bridge progress. They were, however, tormented by endless “sec checks”, “rollback” “RPF” and other methods of torture. Many of them leave the SO after years of service and have had little or no gain or benefit. They sacrificed their youth, health, energy for nothing. Lucky for me, I took LSD in my twenties so was never lured in.
Most of these ex-SO’s are very bitter when they leave, renounce the Tech and attack it. They can be helped with correct application of the Tech. Any person, who has gone through any severe trauma or suffering, can be helped with Dianetics and Scientology.
A girl came in last week, shaken after a bad experience she’s had. After just 6 hours of Dianetics auditing she wrote a beautiful letter today thanking her auditor for relieving her of suffering and for gaining a much higher level of awareness, in just 6 hours!
I am sorry to disappoint, I will not write a huge thesis for you to critique. So much has been written by Hubbard and others, what can I add?
I will, however, welcome a team of “unbiased” observers to come and look and measure and test. Even a team of psychologists from a well-known university who want to examine Scientology processing. I will allow them free access, they can check auditing and people who receive auditing and test it to establish its validity.
I think they will be surprised by the consistent workability of the Tech. That its results are predictable and uniform. This would elevate it way above any other mental practice. If you, Gerhard, know such researchers or have the means to finance this research, I am willing to serve as the testing ground.
Until such research, the laws of “Supply and Demand” still work. If intelligent people come for auditing of their own free will, and are even willing to pay for it, then probably there is some merit to it.
Dani — I thought your comment about Marty and Paul Haggis was out of line too. If they were to respond they would likely tell you they would try to “fix” you. It just comes across as very arrogant. Probably not intended that way, but I sort of gasped when I read it.
Dear Dani, not to go back and forth, just one point. No Scientist will come to watch and study auditing. In the world of Science Scientology is already solidly and thoroughly established as quackery and balderdash. I am not saying that understanding is correct; I am just saying what the overwhelming established opinion is.
The reason for that opinion lays in Scientology itself, it makes over the top promises and does not offer anything else than anecdotal evidence and violates in its claims and methods every single established scientific standard.
You fall into the same pattern when you claim you can fix people and “any person can be helped…with Dianetics and Scientology.” The same old bold absolute talk that spits right into the face of logic 6: “Absolutes are not obtainable.”
There are some established scientific standards, discipline and methods one has to understand and to follow to be taken seriously outside of the bubble. And it starts with formulating your thesis in a way it can be reviewed and inspected by others. If you refuse doing that and expect the world to come to you to learn from your wisdom, you will be in for a long and frustrating wait.
The key problem in Scientology is the inherent arrogance that shines through at every level. If the Freezone wants to break into mainstream and not die a slow death as the market of fresh Church defectors dries up because there is no CO$ anymore, they have to recognize their errors and start acting in a way to be taken seriously, otherwise they will be literally dead within one generation after the CO$ has ceased to exist.
This is not for me to critique something this is about starting the activities and behavior to be taken seriously by the rest of the world. I just offered my help nothing else.
Don’t get your hopes up for definitive “scientific research” proving anything one way or another with regards to auditing. In general, scientific researchers are finding that individual variability defeats reproducible results. This is true in cancer research as well as cardio, diabetic etc etc.
Much less in areas which involve a subjective side, like psychotherapy and religious practices. Clinical psychology, for example, has not been validated to any great extent by scientific research.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2015/03/19/science-irreproducible-research-quiet-crisis/xunxnfuzwdwYSpVjkx2iQN/story.html
Gerhard, “The mechanism to delude people are still in full swing, not only in the CO$”. It is also in the ‘anti-field’. The proof is here, if you are willing to see it.
Gerhard,
You say you are offering help, but I do not see that your advice to write a “thesis” is of any use. If “scientists” have already decided that Scientology auditing is “quackery and balderdash”, believe me, I am not concerned.
Our stream of public is not drying up. There’s about 7 billion potential customers around, and millions more produced daily. The ex-Churchies are not our “target market”. At Dror, we have a constant flow of new people coming for services, who’ve never been at the church. They’ve never heard of Miscavige, have no idea we were once a part of anything else but “Dror Center”. They love the place and have gains from the services they receive.
Some decide Scientology is not for them and leave. That’s fine, we don’t harrass them. They can come back if and when they want to.
Many others come and stay and decide they want to “Go Clear” and that’s even finer with us.
It seems to me “indie” Scientology is doing much better in Europe and around the globe these days than in the U.S. Miscavige’s crimes are being committed in the U.S. and the terrible media is mainly in the U.S. and English-speaking countries.
It will be some years before Scientology recovers in the U.S., after Miscvige is gone first, but in Europe and elsewhere we do pretty well.
Please don’t have Gibney’s film translated into Russian, German or Hebrew. Thanks.
This back and forth is now going to end. It serves no purpose at this point. I am saddened by the fact that you think this film should not be seen, even though you have not seen it. That is what the church says. Disappointed in you Dani.
Thank you Dani for your deferenciation here between the workable technology of LRH and the criminal management of CofS.
I agree with you 100% and see the results in auditing in the field. The technology produces mericals and gains can be achieved and is being achieved by many indie scientologists. I see it on myself and many others on a daily basis!
I am an independent Scientologist and I deliver the entire bridge in the field. I disagree with the suppression of DM and my heart breaks when I hear about shuttered families. My family and I were in the SO at flag for 9 years and we all managed somehow to leave together. It was not easy, it was planed and calculated 😉
I do wish that this HBO documentary will create a complete change and that all broken families will reunit!
Thank you Mike for everything that you do!
Hello Danni, don’t know you,
But well said – not only the original post but the responses to chaps like Brian.
It is quite something that people turn against anything – the tech – which as you state might have been develop, copied, or plagiarized from a guy (LRH) whom I for sure would have physically attacked if he ever dew me of a ship or looked me in the engine room. (Probably by being beaten to death, as I am only half his size ☺))
While I was in, I did NOT know he did those things, but now that I know (or think I know due to the data out there) it does not change the fact that I became enormously better on ALL dynamics AFTER auditing and training.
Mostly after training.
I gained a rather supper heath compared to before, managed what can be called the best manage in the world for 26 years now, make better money than before SCN –real great with LRH tech and as well in “WOG” venture, embrace the whole planet as my home, as I literally live in several continents.
For those grammar Nazis who love to criticize English grammar and will most likely make a commented on my one too – remember this: I can write, read and speak this letter in 4, maybe even five languages and the day you can do that you can criticize my grammar☺)) just to pint out that the fourth dynamic means something to me.
All this talk about truth/untruth and lunatic data on the OT levels and about other authorities not having acknowledged it is talk one can expect a “never in” might say.
Tech not working and soooo many out tech cases is prove that it does NOT work?
Maybe, but remember, no matter how good the Tech, which is a tool and no more, its up to you.
The tech gives you only a chance to grab yourself by the neck and pull yourself up.
Even tough everyone should know that it is auditor plus PC against the case – most just want to be at effect (being HEELPED).
Still, what IF this all is a plausiblo effect?
So what?
Do I care where I take a sugar pill and feel good, or the “real” thing?
Actually all it proves is that Ron is right; Considerations ARE above all.
It’s amazing how the “free zoners” became another kind of cool aid drinkers☺)
It’s like with tyranny, if a tyrant is replaced the next one is usually worst.
I never believed that Mardi, Mike and a punch of other left the church because they finally realized the bad staff is not ok or the tech is NOT working.
Being is so long and especially soooo close, it takes a Moran not to realize that earlier.
No they left because they realized that they are NOTHING but a broken piece in Mr. Mismanage’s empire and can never ever be an equal part of it in any shape and form.
If Mardi ever was the auditor to go – it was because Mr. Mismanage made or let him to make sure the Tech is misapplied –that I guarantee.
Congratulation to you and your delivery team, and especially for speaking up and differentiating between, the church, LRH, and the workability or usefulness of the Tech on all levels.
I will never show up in your place as I am not only auditing on Excalibur (OT 7 & 8 if you will) but also because Hellen and I do deliver the full bridge to great quantities ,many in Taiwan, but there is Dubai, Austria, USA, and… .
And to the rest of you “past win deniers” I hope it works out well for you – even tough I doubt that.
Love,
Helmut
PS: my comments about Mike,and Marty, don’t take away the fact that they are being instrumental in exposing the church as a entity and thus give many down the road a chance to get the real tech again. but at the same time they fell of the wagon a while ago and I believe their usefulness has expired .
You’re not the only one that thinks my usefulness has expired…. David Miscavige reached that conclusion long before you. 🙂
What I find amazing about you is your absolute certainty that you have that you know why I left and it was because I was “NOTHING but a broken piece in Mr. Mismanage’s empire and can never ever be an equal part of it in any shape and form.”
Don’t you have any self-awareness that you sound NO different than the bubbledwellers?
Have you no shame?
Helmut,
Your comment started out pretty good but ended in the gutter.
And your wife’s name is “Helen”, not “Hellen” as you spell it.
Lieber Helmut,
On the one hand, I thank you for your words of support. You and I agree the Tech does work and we both deliver it.
On the other hand, I do take offense, like Mike does, with you criticizing him and Marty and others who’ve left.
Marty and Mike have helped me and my group enormously on our path to leaving the church. They took a bold position against Miscavige when it was still dangerous to do so. They helped Debbie Cook with her actions but Miscavige still succeeded in taking her out.
Marty, Mike, Paul Haggis and many others are still here fighting this battle. If it were not for them and their public position, their blogs and their interviews, already in 2009 for the St. Pete Times, for example, there would be no Lawrence Wright book and no Alex Gibney film.
It does hurt me that LRH and the Tech are attacked but this is the direct result of Miscavige’s insanity and criminal behaviour. When we get rid of Miscavige, we can then peacefully get back to just applying the Tech without the public uproar.
I will be happy to get to know you, please write to: info@drorcenter.co.il
Helmut, grammar is the least of your problems.
You are deserving of our sincerest thanks and profound admiration for the amazing detailed work you have done towards getting to today. May you enjoy the moment with the knowledge that you have transmuted your dark past into becoming a shining beacon for all who needed the precise clear information to exit $cientology.
Happiness and love to you and your family.
Can’t wait for HBO to release this on DVD/BluRay. I know a few people who could use a copy;)
My prays go out to everyone whose family was shattered by suppression on the hollowed day.
Donations could be solicited for a mailing to all Opinion Leaders in the church….
” Opinion Leaders in the church……….”
There won’t be such a thing after today!
Yo DAVE,
It’s here good buddy. Let’s see how many are listening to you in the morning!
The Ditzy Wails.
And that’s what I’m REALLY looking forward to: When it comes out of disc (BlueRay or regular). Can you imagine tens of thousands of Going Clear discs throughout the world?! An avalanche of truth! This cult is doomed. And I say good riddance!
Some enterprising soul should rig it so that Going Clear plays in all the Div 6 Fart displays. Now, that’s what I call dissemination!
Remember how the cult used to try to get donations so they could flood the politicians with their propaganda such as “Can we Ever be Friends” (lol) or the way to happiness, or the “Ron Mags”??? Now we can send the real truth out to politicians in the form of the dvd Going Clear when it is released. It will be the best “dead agent” of all time.
Thank you Mike.
Thank you for having the courage to walk away from the madness.
Thank you for deciding to speak out, despite the risk to yourself and your family.
Thank you for teaching many of us who were eager to learn more about these abuses & crimes.
Thank you for giving people a voice who may not have had one elsewhere.
You may not be comfortable with the term ‘hero’, but in many eyes, you are one. I hope you and your family have a wonderful evening and I hope in the coming weeks that more people will find your blog and find their way out too.
Yes, thanks Mike.
Today is a very emotional day for me.
Today is a Celebration of Going Clear! But it’s a celebration of a very serious subject. The subject of an abusive group that has been able to get away with decades of physical assault, extortion, fraud, emotional blackmail, threats, lies and destroyed lives.
“Going Clear…” deserves CELEBRATION because it is breaking a wall of insulation around the church of scientology that hides these abuses. “Going Clear…” speaks for me and thousands of others.
Tomorrow I will go back to doing what I can to end ENTIRELY this “church’s” reign of terror.
Mary, I’m with you 100%
Me too!
Yes Mary, tomorrow we redouble our efforts…
Mike, I have to wait until Saturday to see it where I am, but I already know it has a happy ending. You all are out, and you have a beautiful wife and two wonderful sons.
You are also a hero and an inspiration to millions. Never forget, and never stop speaking out. We stand with you.
What is going to happen is MILLIONS of people tonight in America will watch this program. Like anybody those people will have questions and turn to the internet. There they will find the truth about the Church of Scientology and THEN NOW the Church of Scientology can really relax for an “educated consumer is their best customer. Like the kind that hands out Dianetics flyers in English on the streets in Elizabeth, New Jersey to people that only understand Spanish. 🙂 Thans Mike. 🙂
Good work Mike, thanks for being one of the major catalysts in this paradigm shift of reality for so many people who are really going to need this transition to sanity.
Make it so, Number One!!!
Bad day for the cult. After bad days and other many bad days, in so many countries!
This is how we Clear the Planet Mike!! Expose the cock roaches – shine a light on Scientology Cult Inc. The government is just as corrupt as Scientology Inc., so I don’t expect the government to do anything about it. If they haven’t by now – I doubt they ever will. “We signed Contracts” ( mind you, in a Church under the guise of HELP, with no legal representation (which was covertly prohibited and under pretenses of fraud and deceit) seems to be the Law of the Land.
The next book out needs to talk about how Scientology Inc. got us to sign those contracts.
I know for me – I was lied to! I was told – “The Psychs sent in people who did Scientology and then sued because they went crazy”. and when I asked why my money on account for future services was called a “dontation” – I was told: “We have to call it donations because we are a Church” and that is why the money you put on account is called a donation – but if you don’t like the services – you can always get a refund!”
This is what the Staff driven life creates – liars that lie.
But what will CLEAR Scientology of people – is the TRUTH and PR. This is the necklace of garlic to ward off Scientologist’s lurking on street corners ready to pounce on unsuspecting victims with their stress test. Tell them what you know so they know why their “church” is empty!
TRUTH and PR is the one and only thing you can do to an evil Organization that disguises itself as a Church so it can hide behind the “Religious Cloak” committing crimes against humanity daily.
When one ponders how to deliver a BLOW to the enemy, Scientology, use the tech. LRH laid it all out in his policies. You do what LRH feared most – TELL THE TRUTH about what you experienced and saw this Organization has done to your family and friends.
How do you confront and shatter Scientology Suppression? Simple – use the tech and do the opposite of what Scientology wants you to do – you tell everyone you know about this evil cult.
Scientology Inc. is all dried up and void of people and it has been that way for at least one decade. I know because I was in it grinding away at trying to disseminate to others and the reversal happens – people SHUN Scientology and Scientologist’s. There is some valuable DATA – based on SCIENCE!!
They do manage to keep the “show on the road” by the cannibalizing of its members of every last dime they have. But, what goes up, comes down. Scientology is going down – way down.
‘Going Clear’ is a breakthrough – now the media will have a frenzy with Scientology and be seeking stories to tell.
I can’t wait to see what Saturday Nite Live does with “Going Clear”. Who would play Slappy Mummuar Miscavige on Saturday Nite LIve? David Spade or Chris Kattan would have been awesome at playing the Fuhrer! LOL
Definitely a day for celebration. Millions will be saying “WTF?” What kind of bat-crazy-shit are u into?
They will be saying that to their in-SCN friends, relatives and co-workers. Anyone in the church may as well go into hiding because they will have a target on their face, just like the church is doing to my wife.
Embolden = Tipping point = Dwindling spiral forCo$
1) Staff and Koolaide Scientology public will be emboldened to listen or look at mainstream media because it will be “everywhere” after the HBO showing. Many will be able to feign “innocent” exposure on morning TV news or “accidental” exposure to the main elements of the HBO’s exposé through radio or newstand headlines…
2) Government and official agencies will be embolden to begin official enquiries to Co$ because they have public opinion behind them
3) Muzzled reporters and correspondents will be emboldened to speak out because they will not get sued like Time Magazine, which will increase 1 & 2 above.
The end times are here for DM..
Exactly, Robert. It’s now a 3 step process.
I think young Dave M is gonna have a bad hangover in the morning I reckon the staff of RTC would wanna be wearing body armour under their pseudo navy uniforms this week……….
Excellent Washington Post article on Tracy. whom many may remember then as Tracy Holmes.
Yes, hopefully this opening up happens.
The amount of stories that could be told is books and books worth.
You Mike lived untold stories galore.
On that theme of the untold stories, I wonder what people who’ve suffered just mounds of abuse, like Heber Jenztsch’s story, Marc Yager’s story, Guilliuame Leserve’s story, any of the top existing Apollo vets at the Int Base today have just mind blowing stories that haven’t surfaced yet.
Media have to realize there is a mound of Apollo vets, and top people who could still tell so much, still in.
All the people ever who did time in the Hole could all still tell their stories.
Too dark indeed! The pure stupidity of DM will be finally exposed. I hope and pray that the followers left will wake-up out of there stupor and get rid of him once and for all.
Mike – broken link did you mean this one : http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/hbos-going-clear-leaves-future-of-scientology-unclear/2015/03/26/0b0bd3a6-d3ec-11e4-8b1e-274d670aa9c9_story.html from the Washington Post?
Thanks Kim. Link fixed now. But here it is again: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/03/27/how-one-woman-climbed-her-way-out-of-scientologys-elite-sea-org/
It is the story of Tracy Ekstrand (for those who knew her in the Sea Org, she was Tracy Holmes at that time, married to Hal Holmes).
OMG, Tracy Holmes,.
On my wall, I have my old “Professional Course Supervisor” certificate, with Hal Holmes’ signature when Hal was then the HAS or Supercargo of the Flag Service Org, 1977.
Everything all true.
What John Brousseau said on Tony’s blog today about still wishing so many MORE stories to come out, all so true.
The Apollo vets have a mountain of stories to tell.