Mike I love when you ramble. So please keep rambling, so your life is so interesting . I listen to every interview and think its amazing how you’ve been thru so much but still have a such positive outlook. I will continue to support whatever projects you undertake. Please write an autobiography.
Mike – am loving your interview – great job. They certainly bring back memories. Don’t forget LRH you to call you and Ronnie when you both ran CMO CW, the Duke and Earl. The dreams – your right they are there and you never know when they will happen. I’ve been gone from the Sea Org for 28 years and I still have that occasional dream of being back on Messenger with Hubbard!
Really enjoyed both podcasts Mike and once again I come away a little wiser. This time with a much better understanding of that ingenious corporate design behind CSI, RTC & CST and your close involvement in it’s conception. And how it’s nevertheless been completely over-ridden.
I am also now consequently curious as to whether the threat and nature of its subsequent subversion was ever envisioned as a possibility at the time, given the apparent ease with which Miscavige was later able to circumnavigate (or perhaps simply ride rough-shod over) the checks and balances put in place. Or was this considered an inconceivable proposition?
And how does ASI fit in, given the title COB originates from here?
Perhaps these are questions you could address on the next podcast, if not here, as I understand they may not necessarily be straightforward explanations.
One final point, on the nightmares, it may be comforting to know that this isn’t unusual and it doesn’t surprise me that it affects ex SO and particularly those of you who were at Int. It also affects some of us who were at lower level too such as ex Class V staff like myself. Not so regular any more but still weird and a little unsettling. Bob Keenan’s featured in a couple more recently…which may or may not amuse you (I did know him since prior to the SO).
Loved both parts of the interview! Plan to watch again. When so much new info is given at one time I usually need to watch a 2nd time to really understand. I’m a never in but love all the exes. I pray for emotional healing, peace and joy for you all.
As a suggestion re the book, how about a full version many of us exes would be interested in, then get it edited by maybe a non-scio that would be interesting for non-scios.
Sorry to hear about the nightmares for you guys!
Re Rons lack of a final message and just to clarify. So the appointment of the Broekers was not written by him? Could he have written a final message and it not been passed on, so it may still be out there? Or was his medical condition such that he was not able to and the end was a free for all?
So the appointment of the Broekers was not written by him? I dont know. I was not there. I think if he had the mental capacity he would have done something on video so there could be no doubt it was his intention. But that being said, it is FAR more likely he would have turned over to the Broekers than to Miscavige. Miscavige was not even in Creston. He didn’t call for him to come like he did Ray Mithoff.
Could he have written a final message and it not been passed on, so it may still be out there? Highly unlikely. Sarge would have mentioned it.
Or was his medical condition such that he was not able to and the end was a free for all? That about sums it up.
A little off topic but…
I was reading some older articles here on Mike’s blog and I need to ask….where does Tom Cruise think Shelley is? Is he also not allowed to ask? Is he so stupid to be fobbed off with a bullshit answer then just believe whatever he’s told? I find it hard to believe, given the amount of time he spends with DM, that he just accepts that Shelley vanished without any explanation. One day shes there and the next shes gone and he never questioned it ….more so after all these years. He must have seen or heard stuff in the media. Its so strange.
You know, I’m very sorry to say this … but if I was TC … I must admit that I would likely do everything that he has done in pretty much the exact kind of way.
What is there to object about this from his POV? I mean except for all the horrible human degradation, suffering, and very probably murder as well. What else is there to object to?
I’d get all the greatest cars and airplanes in this world. All the girls I wanted and when I got tired of them, I’d just get DM to arrange to have them go away somewhere somehow. I’d never even have to know any of the details. Where else could I ever find success with women? For the most part, women had always kicked my ass until I met DM. Then, he explained to me how I could use TS to “win with women”. I can have all the fun I want with them and when they start bitching …. well …. I just ask to have them disappear and … POOF! They are gone.
No man has ever had such a happy and successful formula for dealing with women.
And then … there are all the toys! Wonderful toys! The best toys in the world and they are all free. In fact, all I have to do is read some scripts that DM gives me and I get all the greatest toys in this world for free. When I was a youngster, my cheap-skate, tightwad parents never bought me any toys. I had to make due with second-hand crap they got from Sally Ann. So this is a real joy for me. Plus … I get all the lolli-pops and visits with Santa and I get to play all the fun games in this world with all my new friends and anytime that any of them get to buggin’ me, I just get my buddy DM to make them disappear.
Best of all? There is all the free anal sex with my good buddy DM. Sometimes I’m on top and sometimes he’s on top. But it’s all good. So, just tell me, how could life ever get any better? Why wouldn’t I love this life?
DISCLAIMER: The above post was mostly sarcasm. I saw an opportunity to have some fun with Asshole Tom Cruise. I hope everyone who read the above understands there is no excuse for TC to swallow all the lies told to him in return for some fancy toys. It is completely monstrous that he would consider it to be a fair exchange that he gets a few fancy toys (that he could afford to buy for himself anyway in return for the outrageous suffering and terrible crimes that DM perpetrates against innocent victims in order to make a few dollars.
That was amusing! Turning the other cheek and pretending he doesnt know or doesn’t see what’s going on is just unbelievable to me. He has the power to shut the whole thing down if he ever wakes up
Celebrities are the absolute best people to be sucked into this. Think about this for a minute.
Every day of their lives, they have someone telling them where to stand, how to stand for photos, what to say, how to dress, what their schedule is, how to answer questions….
When they go to “work” there they have someone telling them where to stand, how to stand for the camera angle, what to say, how to dress, what their schedule is, how to say their lines…
It stands to reason they would fall for a church that tells them how to think!
Not all – but many celebrities are insecure and only feel ‘important’ when being praised or noticed etc. Notice that the celebrities who do not make the covers of tabloids and magazines…are also those celebrities who are not involved in the CoS.
Really enjoyed the podcast. Why was Ron wearing an OSA uniform? I’m kidding – he always looks fabulous. I bet you, Mike, will never wear black again?!!
Is it true that Tom Cruise is moving to a penthouse in Clearwater Florida so he can be closer to his “in the closet” boyfriend and fellow scientology nutcase David Miscavige?
Loved the first part. Will def watch Part 2. I’m a never in but am obsessed with all of this about Scientology. Love the Aftermath series, watch all videos and podcasts I can find on it, listening to Blown For Good. Really enjoy Mike, Leah, Marc and Claire, Ron ,Sr and Tony Ortega’s sites and blogs. Keep up the FIGHT guys! You all Rock!
In this phase four of my life, I have discovered that the discovery of myself and the enhancement of what I truly love the GREATEST gift of leaving the church of scientology. There is SO much I could say about this but as just one example: Kayaking. I had never kayaked and now I’ve kayaked the Wiki Wachee, the Bay, and Lake Tahoe and it is mind-blowing and breathtaking. There is so much more. One day I ought to make a list of firsts since leaving the church of scientology.
Note to all of you Under The Radar: Getting fully out will enhance your life in ways you cannot imagine right now. Be true to yourself and don’t be afraid of the church of scientology any more. Wave your own flag.
Good for you Mary. The greatest gift of leaving Scientology is the ability to enjoy life.
Lurker’s – quit wasting your time and money on $cientology. We don’t come back, there are no Clear’s or OT’s. You are getting hornswoggled, bamboozled and duped. Do your research and stop being willfully ignorant. David Miscavige is a monster and Tom Cruise helps Keep $cientology Abusing and Harming people.
Go out there and live life. Travel. Learn a forgeign langaute. Take art classes, piano lessons – there are a ton of things to learn that will bring you joy. Stop sacrificing. It does not good. Buy a nice car. Buy clothes and other Mesty objects that are fun to have. Love your family and hold them dear. Family IS the most important group you can have in this world. If you don’t have a family – love yourself and take care of yourself. Find 1 or 2 good people and make them your family.
Life is to live. Stop needing religions to tell you how to live. None of them know what happens when you die. Who cares – you will be dead. Stop living in fear. Religions put people in fear. Live a good life. Be kind to everyone but BOYCOTT Scientology and Scientologists. If the rest of the world would ignore them- they will go away.
This is True. I am Oat Tea Ate and I know who I am – oh, you won’t ever get rid of your BT’s so embrace the.,
Agree that Lake Tahoe by kayak is amazing, although very very very cold, even in high summer. I tried taking a dip one hot day with just a swimsuit, without my wetsuit. Lasted about a minute and I was back in my tent, drying off and putting my wetsuit on. (It’s a Farmer John custom made for me decades ago in purple and blue, designed for long days kayaking on large, cold water like Lake Tahoe and San Francisco Bay. Before I moved to the PacNW, I was born, grew up, and mostly lived in the Bay Area and got both my kayaks while living down there,along with all my gear.) A friend has been keeping my boats for me for many years now, and I need to get my Yakima rack mounted on my car before I can go get them back and take them home. I love solo kayaking but it’s important to do it safely: I always call my husband or a responsible friend and tell them where and when I’m putting in, where and when I expect to be off the water, and if I don’t call within half an hour of that time, my responsible shore person is to call the Coast Guard immediately. One reason all my gear, kayaks included, are different bright colors is to make me easier to see and recognize. So far, nobody’s ever had to call the Coasties on me, but it’s good to know they’ll look for me if it’s ever needful.
Oops- off topic again, but humorous- I just reported Scientology to STAND for supporting Nation of Islam- they are supposed to be fighting bigotry, and are definitely that!! Wonder what they will do with that one.
Indeed the irony of beleaguered $cientology supporting the hating bigots of NOI while protesting bigotry of their non-existent church in the same breath! Two-faced EL Con Blubbard fools that fool no one. Their day of utter cult collapse is coming.
Sunday morning video fun for those who have never seen it, and where Mike has no gray hair!
The 1990 Co$ Choir front rows: Shelley Miscavige, Ray Mithoff, Mark Yager, Mark Ingber, Mike Rinder, David Miscavige, Heber Jentz, Greg Wilhere, Marty Rathbun, Guillaume Lesevre.
Mike, LRH PL What Your Fees Buy states the Sea Org “neatened up” an area messed up by the US Navy. A FB friend asked (long-time SO) Amos J about this and he had no info. Can you , or anyone here, shed light on this?
Hi Mike, thank you for doing Part 2. You and Ron make for an interesting, entertaining and informative interview and discussion. Please try to find the time to continue doing these valuable interviews with Ron Miscavige, Jeffrey Augustine, Chris Shelton, Aaron Smith-Levin and others. Maybe even consider doing your own podcasts where you interview your own chosen guests.
Thanks again and have a great discussion.
** PS: I am still lol’ing after watching you, right behind the dwarf dictator, swaying back and forth singing “We Stand Tall”. I’ll bet if you could get any video erased from the internet, that would be it. 😀
Mike I love when you ramble. So please keep rambling, so your life is so interesting . I listen to every interview and think its amazing how you’ve been thru so much but still have a such positive outlook. I will continue to support whatever projects you undertake. Please write an autobiography.
Mike – am loving your interview – great job. They certainly bring back memories. Don’t forget LRH you to call you and Ronnie when you both ran CMO CW, the Duke and Earl. The dreams – your right they are there and you never know when they will happen. I’ve been gone from the Sea Org for 28 years and I still have that occasional dream of being back on Messenger with Hubbard!
Can someone answer this question. Is Marty Rathbun still out of Scientology or has he returned to the fold?
Judith, only DM, Marty and his wife knows the answer to that. The evidence that he made some kind of deal with DM is undeniable though.
What I’m the hell is Marty Rathburn thinking? Why make a deal with the devil?????
Jill, in todays PC, unicorn worshiping culture people sometimes lose sight of the fact that some people are just evil.
Apparently, it was too good to pass up. And Marty is a back-stabbing, lying lunatic who has no shame whatsoever.
Really enjoyed both podcasts Mike and once again I come away a little wiser. This time with a much better understanding of that ingenious corporate design behind CSI, RTC & CST and your close involvement in it’s conception. And how it’s nevertheless been completely over-ridden.
I am also now consequently curious as to whether the threat and nature of its subsequent subversion was ever envisioned as a possibility at the time, given the apparent ease with which Miscavige was later able to circumnavigate (or perhaps simply ride rough-shod over) the checks and balances put in place. Or was this considered an inconceivable proposition?
And how does ASI fit in, given the title COB originates from here?
Perhaps these are questions you could address on the next podcast, if not here, as I understand they may not necessarily be straightforward explanations.
One final point, on the nightmares, it may be comforting to know that this isn’t unusual and it doesn’t surprise me that it affects ex SO and particularly those of you who were at Int. It also affects some of us who were at lower level too such as ex Class V staff like myself. Not so regular any more but still weird and a little unsettling. Bob Keenan’s featured in a couple more recently…which may or may not amuse you (I did know him since prior to the SO).
Loved both parts of the interview! Plan to watch again. When so much new info is given at one time I usually need to watch a 2nd time to really understand. I’m a never in but love all the exes. I pray for emotional healing, peace and joy for you all.
Really enjoy the podcasts!
As a suggestion re the book, how about a full version many of us exes would be interested in, then get it edited by maybe a non-scio that would be interesting for non-scios.
Sorry to hear about the nightmares for you guys!
Re Rons lack of a final message and just to clarify. So the appointment of the Broekers was not written by him? Could he have written a final message and it not been passed on, so it may still be out there? Or was his medical condition such that he was not able to and the end was a free for all?
So the appointment of the Broekers was not written by him? I dont know. I was not there. I think if he had the mental capacity he would have done something on video so there could be no doubt it was his intention. But that being said, it is FAR more likely he would have turned over to the Broekers than to Miscavige. Miscavige was not even in Creston. He didn’t call for him to come like he did Ray Mithoff.
Could he have written a final message and it not been passed on, so it may still be out there? Highly unlikely. Sarge would have mentioned it.
Or was his medical condition such that he was not able to and the end was a free for all? That about sums it up.
I’ve known Bitty, Rinder Terri, Janis for years, and was on the Apollo, this is amazing, I never knew this shit. Wow.
Great interviews Mike Rinder and Ron Miscavige Senior. We love you both. The stories and history are very helpful. Thank you so much for all you do.
A little off topic but…
I was reading some older articles here on Mike’s blog and I need to ask….where does Tom Cruise think Shelley is? Is he also not allowed to ask? Is he so stupid to be fobbed off with a bullshit answer then just believe whatever he’s told? I find it hard to believe, given the amount of time he spends with DM, that he just accepts that Shelley vanished without any explanation. One day shes there and the next shes gone and he never questioned it ….more so after all these years. He must have seen or heard stuff in the media. Its so strange.
Yes, Tom believes whatever he’s told by DM. And yes, he’s that dumb.
If he were to ask, which is highly unlikely, DM would give some bullshit answer and Tom would absolutely take him at his word.
Unbelievable….
It really is unbelievable. He should be ashamed of himself
You know, I’m very sorry to say this … but if I was TC … I must admit that I would likely do everything that he has done in pretty much the exact kind of way.
What is there to object about this from his POV? I mean except for all the horrible human degradation, suffering, and very probably murder as well. What else is there to object to?
I’d get all the greatest cars and airplanes in this world. All the girls I wanted and when I got tired of them, I’d just get DM to arrange to have them go away somewhere somehow. I’d never even have to know any of the details. Where else could I ever find success with women? For the most part, women had always kicked my ass until I met DM. Then, he explained to me how I could use TS to “win with women”. I can have all the fun I want with them and when they start bitching …. well …. I just ask to have them disappear and … POOF! They are gone.
No man has ever had such a happy and successful formula for dealing with women.
And then … there are all the toys! Wonderful toys! The best toys in the world and they are all free. In fact, all I have to do is read some scripts that DM gives me and I get all the greatest toys in this world for free. When I was a youngster, my cheap-skate, tightwad parents never bought me any toys. I had to make due with second-hand crap they got from Sally Ann. So this is a real joy for me. Plus … I get all the lolli-pops and visits with Santa and I get to play all the fun games in this world with all my new friends and anytime that any of them get to buggin’ me, I just get my buddy DM to make them disappear.
Best of all? There is all the free anal sex with my good buddy DM. Sometimes I’m on top and sometimes he’s on top. But it’s all good. So, just tell me, how could life ever get any better? Why wouldn’t I love this life?
DISCLAIMER: The above post was mostly sarcasm. I saw an opportunity to have some fun with Asshole Tom Cruise. I hope everyone who read the above understands there is no excuse for TC to swallow all the lies told to him in return for some fancy toys. It is completely monstrous that he would consider it to be a fair exchange that he gets a few fancy toys (that he could afford to buy for himself anyway in return for the outrageous suffering and terrible crimes that DM perpetrates against innocent victims in order to make a few dollars.
Fuck both of those cocksuckers!
That was amusing! Turning the other cheek and pretending he doesnt know or doesn’t see what’s going on is just unbelievable to me. He has the power to shut the whole thing down if he ever wakes up
Celebrities are the absolute best people to be sucked into this. Think about this for a minute.
Every day of their lives, they have someone telling them where to stand, how to stand for photos, what to say, how to dress, what their schedule is, how to answer questions….
When they go to “work” there they have someone telling them where to stand, how to stand for the camera angle, what to say, how to dress, what their schedule is, how to say their lines…
It stands to reason they would fall for a church that tells them how to think!
Not all – but many celebrities are insecure and only feel ‘important’ when being praised or noticed etc. Notice that the celebrities who do not make the covers of tabloids and magazines…are also those celebrities who are not involved in the CoS.
Just my observation 🙂
O will never watch a movie or interviews with TC because I’m convinced he’s crazy!
Thanks to both of you, it was great and so much even I did not know. Love your videos Ron & of course love Mike and all his does.
Really enjoyed the podcast. Why was Ron wearing an OSA uniform? I’m kidding – he always looks fabulous. I bet you, Mike, will never wear black again?!!
Is it true that Tom Cruise is moving to a penthouse in Clearwater Florida so he can be closer to his “in the closet” boyfriend and fellow scientology nutcase David Miscavige?
Well he did build quite the condo at the top of a high-rise in downtown Clearwater.
Loved the first part. Will def watch Part 2. I’m a never in but am obsessed with all of this about Scientology. Love the Aftermath series, watch all videos and podcasts I can find on it, listening to Blown For Good. Really enjoy Mike, Leah, Marc and Claire, Ron ,Sr and Tony Ortega’s sites and blogs. Keep up the FIGHT guys! You all Rock!
Am so happy to hear you’re taking piano lessons!
In this phase four of my life, I have discovered that the discovery of myself and the enhancement of what I truly love the GREATEST gift of leaving the church of scientology. There is SO much I could say about this but as just one example: Kayaking. I had never kayaked and now I’ve kayaked the Wiki Wachee, the Bay, and Lake Tahoe and it is mind-blowing and breathtaking. There is so much more. One day I ought to make a list of firsts since leaving the church of scientology.
Note to all of you Under The Radar: Getting fully out will enhance your life in ways you cannot imagine right now. Be true to yourself and don’t be afraid of the church of scientology any more. Wave your own flag.
Good for you Mary. The greatest gift of leaving Scientology is the ability to enjoy life.
Lurker’s – quit wasting your time and money on $cientology. We don’t come back, there are no Clear’s or OT’s. You are getting hornswoggled, bamboozled and duped. Do your research and stop being willfully ignorant. David Miscavige is a monster and Tom Cruise helps Keep $cientology Abusing and Harming people.
Go out there and live life. Travel. Learn a forgeign langaute. Take art classes, piano lessons – there are a ton of things to learn that will bring you joy. Stop sacrificing. It does not good. Buy a nice car. Buy clothes and other Mesty objects that are fun to have. Love your family and hold them dear. Family IS the most important group you can have in this world. If you don’t have a family – love yourself and take care of yourself. Find 1 or 2 good people and make them your family.
Life is to live. Stop needing religions to tell you how to live. None of them know what happens when you die. Who cares – you will be dead. Stop living in fear. Religions put people in fear. Live a good life. Be kind to everyone but BOYCOTT Scientology and Scientologists. If the rest of the world would ignore them- they will go away.
This is True. I am Oat Tea Ate and I know who I am – oh, you won’t ever get rid of your BT’s so embrace the.,
✨☺️✨?
Agree that Lake Tahoe by kayak is amazing, although very very very cold, even in high summer. I tried taking a dip one hot day with just a swimsuit, without my wetsuit. Lasted about a minute and I was back in my tent, drying off and putting my wetsuit on. (It’s a Farmer John custom made for me decades ago in purple and blue, designed for long days kayaking on large, cold water like Lake Tahoe and San Francisco Bay. Before I moved to the PacNW, I was born, grew up, and mostly lived in the Bay Area and got both my kayaks while living down there,along with all my gear.) A friend has been keeping my boats for me for many years now, and I need to get my Yakima rack mounted on my car before I can go get them back and take them home. I love solo kayaking but it’s important to do it safely: I always call my husband or a responsible friend and tell them where and when I’m putting in, where and when I expect to be off the water, and if I don’t call within half an hour of that time, my responsible shore person is to call the Coast Guard immediately. One reason all my gear, kayaks included, are different bright colors is to make me easier to see and recognize. So far, nobody’s ever had to call the Coasties on me, but it’s good to know they’ll look for me if it’s ever needful.
Oops- off topic again, but humorous- I just reported Scientology to STAND for supporting Nation of Islam- they are supposed to be fighting bigotry, and are definitely that!! Wonder what they will do with that one.
Also reported it to multiple news outlets-I will keep looking for opportunities! Can’t wait for the podcast.
I love it Kat!
?
Indeed the irony of beleaguered $cientology supporting the hating bigots of NOI while protesting bigotry of their non-existent church in the same breath! Two-faced EL Con Blubbard fools that fool no one. Their day of utter cult collapse is coming.
LMAO. Good one
??
Sunday morning video fun for those who have never seen it, and where Mike has no gray hair!
The 1990 Co$ Choir front rows: Shelley Miscavige, Ray Mithoff, Mark Yager, Mark Ingber, Mike Rinder, David Miscavige, Heber Jentz, Greg Wilhere, Marty Rathbun, Guillaume Lesevre.
We Stand Tall:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyNh1j3dsp8&t=2m30s
Saturday Night Live – Neurotology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOpapeX6Vzs
Chris Shelton – Cringeworthy Scientology Music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5bK7d6xkt4
Thanks for the links! I know Mike probably cringes when the dopey song is shown, but it’s so funny seeing the SNL take on it.
Mike, LRH PL What Your Fees Buy states the Sea Org “neatened up” an area messed up by the US Navy. A FB friend asked (long-time SO) Amos J about this and he had no info. Can you , or anyone here, shed light on this?
NO, it’s just another invention. Could be referring to Greece or Morocco or Spain or Portugal. All countries that eventually kicked the Apollo out…
Hi Mike, thank you for doing Part 2. You and Ron make for an interesting, entertaining and informative interview and discussion. Please try to find the time to continue doing these valuable interviews with Ron Miscavige, Jeffrey Augustine, Chris Shelton, Aaron Smith-Levin and others. Maybe even consider doing your own podcasts where you interview your own chosen guests.
Thanks again and have a great discussion.
** PS: I am still lol’ing after watching you, right behind the dwarf dictator, swaying back and forth singing “We Stand Tall”. I’ll bet if you could get any video erased from the internet, that would be it. 😀
DM stands tall? How tall can he possibly stand? Is it “lifts”?