The Sea Org coat of arms includes one word, the latin Revenimus – “We Come Back.” It is the motto of the Sea Org.
I received an email recently about the passing of Ken Delderfield which reminded me of how many of the important names from the early years of the Sea Org have now passed. Ken was the LRH Communicator WorldWide and then was on the Apollo and began the Pubs Org. He was the person who got the original OEC Volumes compiled and printed.
Recently we learned of the death of Tony Dunleavy, Hubbard’s “Staff Captain” for many years and then the first Captain of the Flag Service Organization on land. David Light, one of the most famous names in the annals of scientology Registrars also passed in the last few weeks.
They join a long list of others, including of course the Commodore himself and Captain Mary Sue Hubbard.
Not a one of them has “Come back.”
Nor have the many other Sea Org members who have “dropped their bodies” – no sign of Jens Bogvad, Bill Robertson, Phyll Stevens, Allen Buchanan, Bill Franks, Dave Richards, Amos Jessup, Lyman Spurlock, Annie Broeker, Frank McCall, Richard Reiss, David Mayo, Jeff Walker or any of the hundreds I have forgotten or never knew.
Some might argue that a many of these had left the Sea Org before their death and thus would never return in their next life. Maybe so. But many of these were die-hard SO members to their last breath, including Deld. And none of them have ever “come back” — not even the Commodore himself, though he has mansions that have been constructed in anticipation of his return in locations around the world.
And what of the OT VII’s among them — those who been cured of amnesia on Whole Track? Even those who were not Sea Org, like my mother and father? No sign of them.
In fact, in the entire history of scientology, there is not a single person that I have known who has “returned.” There are people who claim to have recalled being “Past Life Clear” and “attended Briefing Course lectures at St Hill” but when push comes to shove, any detailed recollection that could verify their former identity seems to be missing. Not a single person has stepped up and said “I m back to rejoin the Sea Org — my name was ____ and I was [fill in any post title or location or rank or anything identifying]…”
Yet, the Sea Org continues to promote this.
It’s all part of the myth of scientology.
My former husband, John, McGinley is alive in Calif. Let’s keep the facts straight.
What fact are you trying to keep straight? I am happy he is alive. Where did I say he was not?
Oh Give Over Mike Rinder – in the list of those who left their bodies I think I counted three that have been gone over 21 years. If you are going to write try writing something helpful
Seriously? You could only count 3.
Did that include Hubbard and your former husband?
L.R.H. SAID, NOT VERBATIM, HE NEEDED TO BE RELEASED TO ATTEND TO A HIGHER LEVEL, NOT A HUMAN BODY. I WAS IN COLORADO STUDYING ADVANCED CLINICAL COURSES WHEN THIS TOOK PLACE. I VIEW THE PROBLEM IS YOU AND YOUR KIND, STUDENTS OF … IS THAT YOU ARE MIXED UP AS TO THE TRUE PURPOSE… IF… I AM A SEA ORG MEMBER…ORDAINED…I WOULD NOT TELL YOU AS I WOULD DEFINITELY SAY YOU ARE NOT INTRUSTED WITH THAT PARTICULAR KNOWLEDGE. SEA ORG MEMBERS KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND ARE TRUSTED WITH MUCH HIGHER LEVELS THAT MOST CANNOT HANDLE, NO MATTER AT WHAT LEVELS, AND THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS. I DO HOPE YOU STUDY SCIENTOLOGY MORE AS IT WOULD HELP YOU TO GET THE FACTS. L.R.H. WOULD WANT THAT FOR YOU AND EVERY ABLE PERSON TO BECOME MORE ABLE. THERE IS NO “GLASS CEILING THEORY” IN SCIENTOLOGY ONLY PURE KNOWLEDGE. POSTULATE, MAKE-A-WISH AND SCIENTOLOGY CAN AND DOES HELP! HIP-HIP!!!
Look in the thread above – I counted 3 that may have passed 21 years or longer ago – your question for me was had I included LRH and my former husband in that count
Not sure I get your point — you’d think that 21+ years post death would be more than enough time to return.
That no one came back, whether they died last year or 22 years ago, is just more evidence that LRH was just making stuff up. You give over, Jackie – because the CoS’s game is up, but you’re still living in LRH’s imagination. AND paying rent.
I keep thinking that the “come back” claim will start to haunt them, as the passage of time makes it more and more obvious that it’s not working out for anyone. But maybe it’s just another factor that ensures that the remaining members are completely winnowed down to a credulous minority unwilling or unable to look at things analytically and critically.
Particularly for aging members, it seems like we hear about the supposed importance of moving up the “bridge” so as to “come back in better shape” – but I’d think that would get increasingly hard to push.
And what could be more of a barrier to “dissemination” and “expansion” than having a fundamental claim or theory of a supposed “science,” that is testable over the passage of time and yet is failing to prove true?
There is a guy online who is running around claiming to be Hubbard but so far except for some Independent Scientologists nobody takes him seriously. As you and Leah pointed out on “Aftermath” Mike. There is a policy by LRH that details how to handle people who say they were in Scientology in a past life. It would be cool if all of a sudden a bunch of people came into Scientology claiming to have been Xenu or the Duke of Chug in a past life and said they wanted to help clear the planet to atone for their sins. Unfortunately the joke would fall flat because almost nobody at a Class V Org would know what you were talking about.
Wow
David Light passed away.
I will be flippant on this one.
We come BACK
MEANS
We come back for your AMEX, Visa, MC and cash.
We come back for more $$$$$
And when you give, we return because we WANT more…
So we do not come back?
We are mud made from mud, simply animated dust who return to dust.
So Mike why do you bother with anything?
Why not just live until you get that disease that will kill the body and then die and that is the end of everything.
What is the point of going on or even talking about anything.
You have already said “it is all imagination” Only psychiatry can save us.
Save us for what? We are all dust and nothing more there really is no point in even living except for some sort of temporary physical sensation.
Long live L. Ron Rinder
Man kinds new savioir
Well, well, well, what do you know, its Ogre 500 come to visit with Little Us. Hi Ogre! Darn it all! Like the song says, if I knew you were coming I’d ‘ve baked a cake! Or better yet, a pie! A nice, high, fluffy one 🙂
Ogre 500,
*I nominate you to be humankind’s new savior.*
Your profound insights and articulate extemporizations, always proffered with humility and intellectual acuity, underscore your problem-solving and ability-validation skills. Your disciplined avoidance of ad hominem and your focus on presenting carefully crafted, elegantly logical rebuttals to Mike’s posts inspire awe, reverence, and deep reflection in all of the…
Body Thetan’s who read this blog…
All hail El Con Ogre, resident “knows-best” and deep stinker, er, thinker!
😂😂😂
I would not be suprised if NOI started claiming to be returned SeaOrg.
Many NOI Scientologists are actually returned Sea Org. They hide it.
“Revenimus” isn’t a motto.
It’s a threat.
Stephani gave us:
“Revenimus” isn’t a motto.
It’s a threat.
An EMPTY threat, at that.
It’s not because Scientology is a lie that makes us being dust. I believed I was a spirit long before I started scientology . I had some flashbacks of past lives before I was in scientology. I could experience out of the body state (uncontrolled) before I ever was in scientology. I had between lives (in a body) memories before I was in scientology. That’s why I was interested in starting scientology. To get the knowledge of how to be cause over all this. After one decade of courses and auditing, I realised that it didn’t work (at least for me), so I quit scientology. It’s true we are much more conscious (aware) without a body, so the people you named and didn’t return because maybe they had to die to realize scientology was fake and they continue searching on their own. From my experience, if you want to evolve spiritually speaking, you have to stay away from religions, philosophies, religious organisations, any kind of spiritual organisation. Because they are just made to bug you. Something huge is happening these months on the planet that will be a game changer. Just open your eyes and ears and the informations will come in the news (even the mainstream news).
The “We Come Back” thing often comes up on Scn blogs and it usually leads to a scientific materialism discussion which is fine and it’s a point of view. I don’t follow Ken Wilber’s Integral Theory philosophy but I like this quote from him from Wikipedia:
Wilber: “Are the mystics and sages insane? Because they all tell variations on the same story, don’t they? The story of awakening one morning and discovering you are one with the All, in a timeless and eternal and infinite fashion. Yes, maybe they are crazy, these divine fools. Maybe they are mumbling idiots in the face of the Abyss. Maybe they need a nice, understanding therapist. Yes, I’m sure that would help. But then, I wonder. Maybe the evolutionary sequence really is from matter to body to mind to soul to spirit, each transcending and including, each with a greater depth and greater consciousness and wider embrace. And in the highest reaches of evolution, maybe, just maybe, an individual’s consciousness does indeed touch infinity—a total embrace of the entire Kosmos—a Kosmic consciousness that is Spirit awakened to its own true nature. It’s at least plausible. And tell me: is that story, sung by mystics and sages the world over, any crazier than the scientific materialism story, which is that the entire sequence is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying absolutely nothing? Listen very carefully: just which of those two stories actually sounds totally insane?”[18]
“just which of those two stories actually sounds totally insane?”[18]”
When it comes to religious belief, sanity or logic has no place, it’s all about what makes them FEEL best. It’s only after putting some distance between the belief system and their day-to-day that logic and consideration can enter into the equation.
Jere – Very good point. I think Wilber is referring to random peak – transcendental – kensho – satori type of experience rather than religious. Buddhists, nondualists and others might seek to maintain that state of awareness if it could be called that. From a scientific point of view all such alterations in “normal” consciousness might be attributed to a release of chemicals in the brain. “I” as a timeless observer watching the never-ending “Now” go by in that frame of reference would be mental conditioning.
Tom Cruise as the poster boy… ” hey you too ca n be “at cause” like me”! I have 3 failed marriages, don’t have much of a relationship with my daughter, been lied to , used, and purposely kept in the dark , exploited, and financially soaked…56 yrs old and can’t see supressives, can’t see my family, ca nt see the truth. Sounds good ?
Well, he’s still got Dave 🙂
Would someone please compose a parody of Sonny and Cher’s “I Got You, Babe” with TC singing “I Got You, Dave”, so that I won’t have to do it? Sorry for the Hat Dump, btw. Feel free to KR me for “Hats, Not Wearing.” 🙂
Alright, never mind, I’m on post again.
With sincere apologies to Cher and the late Sonny Bono:
“I Got You Dave”
Sung by Tom to COB
They say we’re Clams and I don’t know
I’m in a cult, and really I should blow.
Well I don’t know if all that’s true
‘Cause you got me, for sure, and I got you,
Dave!
I got you Dave!
I got you Dave!
I dumped Mimi,
I dumped Nic,
Kate dumped me, a dirty trick!
And daughter Suri
She has found
Since she’s turned five
I’m not around!
So put your Tiny Fist in mine
There ain’t no Bridge or Grade Chart we can’t climb,
Dave!
I got you Dave!
I got YOU, Dave!
I got you, Dave!
I got you, Dave!
I…GOT…YOU…DAVE!!!!!
Good one!😎😂
BINGO, Robert. Tom Cruise as the poster boy for the gullible sheeple, conned by a second-rater.
So true. I would think that the lack of people returning from the dead and claiming their rightful places in the sea org (as if!) would wake some of these true believers up. Especially the absence of “the old mans” return. Curious, anyone?
Bo. if the “old Man” does return, he’ll be immediately declared.
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if “Revenimus” was chosen with a wink and a smirk because of it’s similarity to the word revenue. Other latin words would have worked as well, but revenimus can be an insiders joke on the clams. Or it may have been chosen because of its subliminal appeal – “there’s just something about that word that I like, so let’s use it”.
That anybody can come back? Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
David Light was a living legend as a Registrar. When I was in New York in about 1972, a staff member told me that Hubbard would stabilize the thetan of Sea Org members after they dropped their bodies. Obviously total BS.
The magnitude of this lie “We Come Back” was so huge few challenged it. Hubbard was trying to ride on Eastern Religions such as Buddhism to justify this lie. Claiming to have been a Buddha and other historical figures were just more lies. Even Original Buddhism hardly mentioned past lives. Western translations in the 19th century by German and British scholars were in error. But Hubbard insisted that Scientology was allied with Original Buddhism in the OT VIII documents. Hubbard theorized that this thetan had a conscious past life pattern that could be controlled. It was obviously total BS.
George,
Yep.
I’m not sure who stated it, but it’s been proposed that if you’re going to lie, make it so big that no one would believe that you’d make such a big one. That way, they’re halfway to believing the BIG LIE.
The myth of Scamology? How’s about, “The Miss of Scamology”?
IMO, that name would be far more honest – although honesty has never had any relevance to This Scam.
The time is long past overdue for the criminals who control this evil scam to just disappear and and never ever return! Not ever! El Bastardo Locos!
I curse them all. May they die in tremendous pain and agony. That would not be anywhere near the level of suffering they have inflicted upon their victim and their families. Miserable fuckers!
And since SO members are not allowed to have babies anymore, who would they come to even if they could? The very few and getting smaller number of remaining young scientologists? Or Wogs?! God forbid.
If anyone did come back, chances are they would stay the hell away from the Sea Org.
It’s so hard to extricate oneself from the Sea Org. Even if they recalled that they were once in it, I have to suppose that this memory would be strongly associated with a sense of dread or fear. From what I’ve gathered from the studies of people, usually kids, who do have past life memories, it’s usually about some kind of unresolved trauma that pushes toward resolution. I could see possible ways that could happen that don’t involve an immaterial soul/thetan. For example, psyches are the mechanisms for all our experiences, and there is a collective aspect to those mechanisms (e.g., the energy of a crowd/mob). So there could be ways that traumas are shared and passed around. Kids could be more vulnerable to that.
What I’m saying is that it neither proves nor disproves reincarnation of some sort that no one comes back to reenlist in the Sea Org. It limits what reincarnation can mean, and what it can mean is already restricted by plenty of other facts. Like people who do have memories rarely get that kind of specific verifiable info. Even those who do might get a piece here, a piece there, not the whole cloth of who that previous person was. What’s important to the people who do have such memories is the emotional resolution they get through it — in the same way that reading or watching fiction can provide similar resolutions. Stories are important to us. Sometimes I think it’s stories that reincarnate — and through art as much as people — not selves. Either way (whether reincarnation is simply a form of fiction or whether there’s something to it but the piece that reincarnates is very little of what we consider to be ourselves), the attitude that one is just going around picking up and dropping bodies and can come back with perfect memory of past lives is unjustifiable.
That’s my translation of your post today.
Spacetime might be quite different in The Void and does not translate into Teegeeack “years”. Hubbard should have figured that out before he departed to Target 2 and set the Leave Of Absence time at 20 “years” and caused all this confusion.
“Spacetime might be quite different in The Void and does not translate into Teegeeack ‘years.'”
Richard, that’s why I found the e-meter auditing of supposed dates going back to before the Big Bang to exact dates and times so baffling and infuriating. How can anyone believe that? What does “year” mean before any galaxies have formed, never even mind before our Earth started going around our sun?
——
Also, to whoever replied to me and either deleted the comment or it didn’t post (I don’t know which or who posted it):
“Cat, the accounts of kids supposedly having past life memories either don’t hold up or have been debunked. It’s some combination of adults seeing what they want to believe, and subtly leading the childrens’ stories – much the same sort of thing that goes on in Scientology auditing, which produces all the false past life recollections…”
You could of course be right that the kids with past life memories are just doing so under influence of adults or whatever other explanations. I don’t think you can say that every single one has been accounted for, since there are thousands; but even if you are right about that, I wasn’t making the point that these are objective facts proving reincarnation. I don’t believe that. My point was that even if some of those experiences have some kind of validity, that validity can’t be so all-encompassing as to justify belief that one can reincarnate with all one’s memories perfectly intact. So one either has to change one’s definition of reincarnation to omit “all memories” (and therefore a great chunk of what we currently consider “us”) from what it is that reincarnates, or one has to look at it as a metaphor that some people find meaningful, just like some people find Star Wars, Bible stories, and other fictional metaphors meaningful.
If we are here for anything, it is to create meaningful lives, so I’m not opposed to these stories. I just think it’s important to recognize “stories that we find meaningful” as simply stories we find meaningful, rather than pretend that they are science, history, or fact. I like to imagine a world where truth in advertising laws were enacted thousands of years ago, so all religious scripture was titled “Stories We Find Meaningful.” How much less torture, abuse, bigotry, violence, and wars would we have had to endure?
I think science says that this universe will last another trillion years yet the Sea Org wants everyone back after a measly 20 year vacation in the Void. Who needs all that stress? I’ll come back when I feel like it. 😇
That’s right, Richard, You’ve really been putting in the hours on the Whole Track. 12-14 hour days, no weekends hardly ever, for the last 60 trillion. Look, you go right ahead and take that well-deserved vacation, my friend. We gotcha covered for the next thousand years. Here’s your routing form 🙂
Aqua – Aarg-hoop. That’s Thank You in Voidspeak.
(That was a joke. Rumor has it that communication in the Void is done telepathically using mental image pictures which which speeds up the Communication Cycle.)
I’m down with that 🙂
Cat W. – “Creating a meaningful life” places an obligation on oneself which can lead to regrets about the past and unfulfilled expectations. Tricky stuff – haha
Cat, the accounts of kids supposedly having past life memories either don’t hold up or have been debunked. It’s some combination of adults seeing what they want to believe, and subtly leading the childrens’ stories – much the same sort of thing that goes on in Scientology auditing, which produces all the false past life recollections including hundreds of Napoleons, Jesuses and Cleopatras. It’s also similar to what lead to the infamous false charges of satanic ritual child abuse in preschools, when impressionable kids’ memories were supposedly “recovered” who were falling into the trap of faulty science, and just finding what they were looking for (again, exemplified in Scientology as well).
There’s also a collective model of human consciousness sometimes known as the Akashic Record that Hubbard was almost certainly familiar with – but it doesn’t allow for ego-pleasing claims of having been grand figures of past history. It’s actually a bit more scientific in its simplicity in explaining possible phenomenon, and could ultimately dovetail with scientific findings about things such as species like butterflies that operate collectively in ways that seem beyond the capabilities of their miniscule individual brain power, but it’s all speculative at this point.
Oh, there it is. Sorry, PeaceMaker. When I posted my reply to you under Richard’s post, it was because when I followed the link from the notification, it didn’t take me to your comment. Probably just a glitch, but I couldn’t find it for some reason. See my reply above (https://www.mikerindersblog.org/revenimus/#comment-311050).
…Betty Filisky (the first Solo Nots completion), Gretchen Schwartz (No 1 Reg for Flag at AOLA), ….
and speaking of the dead: anybody heard from Harvey Jacques? Is he still Captn FSO?
That shows you that despite hundreds of hours of auditing, thousands and thousands of dollars spent on courses and auditing, all were based on a covertly enforced concept (belief) that you will regain full memory, control over life and other abilities that surpassed common, usual human behavior.
The foundations of scientology have been, are and will continue to be a lie.
One can read about ancient philosophies, religions, cultures, psychology, scientific developments, et al and uncover many, many ideas LRH promulgated as his own with the added falsehood that his were the only ones that worked and will save mankind.
Lets not limit our lives to ONE belief. There are plenty of things to learn and use to create a better life.
My mother Claire Reppen former CL XII Auditor died on August 2nd 2001 after a long battle of breast cancer. David Miscavige put her head on a pike during the bs Golden Age of Tech. Well she 18 years later has not come back.
I knew Claire when I worked at FSO. She deserves better than to come back to this hellhole.
A ’57 PAB called “Death” states those in good case shape do not come back. And the ones that do, probably won’t remember because their past life is muddled with millions of other ones.
I’m sorry for your loss. Very similar story here except for the level of training. 22 years since my mom died and she’s not come back. She joked that she’d show up on my doorstep one day. Nope.
It’s not just a myth. It’s part of the trap! And is pure bs, like the tech!💩