Robert, who was featured on last week’s episode of The Aftermath, joined Ron Miscavige for his podcast on Sunday. Give it a listen. You will hear stories about his early years on the Apollo, his interactions with Diana Hubbard and David Miscavige that are pretty astonishing. Things we could not focus on in the limited time we had on the show. It is not what you might be expecting!
Robert, Ron and Dave Richards have been close friends for many years. Dave unfortunately passed away a few months ago. I have known Ron since our families met at St Hill in the early 70’s, and I met Dave Richards on the Apollo in 1973. It was Dave who introduced me to Robert and the 4 of us became great buddies — me being the latecomer in some respects and an original in others.
I promised Ron I will do a podcast with him — as soon as life settles down a bit, sometime in the New Year.
Well now….there’s an old saying about a “wolf in sheep’s clothing”……COS willingly inviting NOI with open arms into COS…..all I foresee as “they” become more deeply involved into the inner workings is an eventual power struggle as to who is going to unseat DM….the main question here would be exactly which ONE is the “wolf in sheep’s clothing”….
Also getting paid 10 to 15% for getting ANY members to “sign up for course”, can add up to quite a tidy sum of $$$….especially when the “main man” of NOI encourages it with such high praise.
Balletlady: Two mangy, rabid, greedy, crazy wolves.?
I agree one hundred percent. It was shocking to hear shout the NOI on last night’s Aftermath.
Thank you Mike Rinder and Leah Remini.
I am now an ex NOI and an ex Scientologist
Because of your show and the truth you exposed
My brothers and sisters trapped in Scientology mind control are doomed
Your show may set them free because you speak the truth
Nice to hear. Welcome to the blog if you’re new.
Funny you say mind control. I would conjugate mind with a less polite term. Apparently, it’s an OT ability.
To Muhammad: Congratulations on rejecting two racist, space opera cults led by shiny-suit-wearing con men who love their ducats and hair products! Whether it’s a god-presence or spiritual enlightenment or humanist peace you seek, you can embark on the journey without relying on intermediaries or ” prophets “.
Here’s to your freedom and peace of mind! ?
Welcome Muhammad. I’m so happy for you that you recognized the truth when you saw it. Way to go!
Mike and Leah, when anyone on your progrms weep, so do I. Mike, the most profound thing you’ve said is the difference between a religion and a cult is how easy it is to leave.
I’m so sorry about Robert being ruined and the world not benefiting from his clean ice machine. I’ve been sick all day due to sipping a bit of water last night, with ice in it. Now I’m paying the price.
If you had a program on every day, we’d all be glued to our teevee sets!
It is downright sickening to know that the 1st Amendment protect “the religion” based upon the “religion’s right” more or less to chase down/come after those member who have successfully “escape/blown” & their reasoning is that “it’s for the member’s own good, to save their eternity”…..despite the fact that the member no longer holds any interest in remaining a member of that particular “religion”……
I can’t imagine being Claire H. & they actually track you down to a bus station to try to more or less forcefully recover you for your own good…..or knock Marc off his scooter when he escaped, following after him & nearly hurting him in a vain attempt to recover him for his “own good”… Seems like they never have to worry about facing kidnapping charges because “they” are doing it for YOUR “own good”.
In thinking about this I’ve come to these conclusions.
1. When you join you are doing so of your own free will. (Even 2nd and 3rd generation “born-ins”, even though they’ve been indoctrinated to believe in the cult claims.)
2. Even if you were deceived/lied to concerning the benefits of joining, you did decide to join.
3. Somehow during your time in the cult it seems your right to disengage gets rolled over to the cult and particularly if you have had a position of “knowing stuff” then they can take extreme measures to keep you bottled up.
Maybe the way to combat this is when you decide to leave one of the first things you do is send a letter to your State’s Attorney General stating –
I, __________ joined $ci.. of my own free will and now have decided to quit of my own free will. I wish to get on with my life and want the cult to leave
me alone. Should I disappear, I am probably being held against my will so please come rescue me.
Since $ci.. loves signed quasi-legal documents this could be right up their alley. Maybe even cc them and Mike’s foundation.
Phillip….I just LOVE the fact that a KID who is a young teen well under the age of 18/21 is permitted to sign a “legally binding document” to dedicate themselves to a “billion year contract”…….& they willingly hold these KIDS to that contract…although technically not legal by law….it’s enough to scare the crap out of a kid.
Add to that the sickening “free loader bill”…signed more or less under duress….you HAVE to take the course to move up the bridge & to secure your place in eternity, & with NO $$$ of your own since you are paid little to no money,….you HAVE to sign a “loan contract” to pay for the required courses you are taking over & over & over again.
They have got you by the cojones….escape/blow or voluntarily opt out or kicked out you still owe them thousands of dollars payable on demand…..”cuse me while I go vomit.
Yep! I feel sick as well. It’s soul crushing.
Yea, the purif does nothing but make you hot and sweaty….at best. You cannot make the body give up “bad fat” by drinking pure liquid oil. Sweating is for cooling off the body, not for getting rid of toxins. There may be some residual, small amount in sweat, but sweating does not dig into the fat tissues and release toxins. And Niacin? too much to go into here. NOT WORKABLE folks. I did 4 purifs, a bunch of sweat pgms before that etc. Good placebo though.
Overrun,
I keep this file for reference:
http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/at/narcononevaluation.asp
Thank God for AA
Quick question if I may…
At the time Dave Richards introduced you to Robert, was he (Dave) still a member of the Co$?
From the Aftermath interview, I understood that Robert was in good standing at the time he met you
And, if Dave and Robert were members at the time Dave introduced you to Robert, how quickly were they declared after they dared to speak to you?
Robert is a class act.
Thanks Computer Guy and Brian for saying how I felt as well.
That podcast did remind me of Mike McClaughry and his strange video.
http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/Sten/galacticfederation.homeip.net/mcclaughry/index.htm
It sounded like Ron and Richard were bragging.
I did not enjoy it either and could not finish the podcast.
After many years of being out – It still hurts.
Old Elron Hubbard
Went to the cupboard,
To give little dave a bone
When he got there,
He came to despair
As little dave sat on his throne
Lol
Good one Scribe
Great interview! Amazing, too, to see such incredibly intelligent and SUCCESSFUL men ignored and attacked by scion. And the Purif actually worked…and they IGNORED it????? Something that PROVABLY worked??? Stupidity to the max!!! Further proof – if any is necessary – that Mousescavige is truly running things into the ground and gathering funds for his own retirement.
I was only interested in seeing if dioxin could be detected, measured and lowered. I saw a need for reducing these levels because it was so harmful to vets. But, no one was interested unless drug levels dropped…. And, I had no knowledge of that one way or the other…that was something for the church to do. Obviously, they never followed my lead or, if they did, they never published the results.
I could not listen to this podcast any more because I found it upsetting to hear anyone talk about how they helped L Ron Hubbard design his tech.
Scientology did a lot of damage to my business and my relationships. To hear you both say WISE had good stuff in it is mind boggling to me. I had a great business until I got involved with WISE and Scientology.
The Purification is not good for anyone according to toxicologists.
I don’t really get you two guys. I love you both and are glad you are out but it sounds as if you are bragging about helping Scientology.
Scientology hurt me and my family. I don’t get it why any ex members talk about it like it has some redeeming qualities.
I had a similar feeling Computer Guy. My thoughts about it were that these guys still have some of the Scientology cheese that attracted them to the mouse trap.
If there weren’t something’s in Scientology that are a benefit it would not have lasted.
That being said, Nazi Germany created a great car, the Volkswagen. Hitler was seen as helping Germany before the war.
It’s possible that these two men still see L Ron Hubbard in a positive light. Hubbard’s evil is probably not understood as the basic basic to Miscavige’s violent depravity. Miscavige is simply following leadership instruction from Bolivar and how to handle critics of Scientology.
Maybe it’s part of the de hypnotizing of the Scientologist: to blame DM first. After they hate on Dave for a while a curious, honest person finds Ron and his writings as the source of this depravity.
Maybe the story of Paulette Cooper has not really made its way into these two men’s mind.
When Hubbard is seen in his full glory deviance, then x Scientologists can start understanding that the world would have been better of with no Volkswagen at all. Getting a nice car was not worthy WW2. The bad in Scientology cancels the good in my view.
Spirituality is not a game of Russian roulette with our minds.
The goodness in Scientology is the cheese that attracts its victim. The gains they had are in conflict with the truth of Scientology.
Give them time.
Thank you Brian and Computer Guy
I felt the same way
I love Ron Miscavige and appreciate all he does
I don’t think he realizes how he comes off at times
Another thing that bothered me was Ron Miscavige got $100,000 from the dictator to buy a house
That upset me because I left the Sea Org and got nothing after dedicating just as much time
That was blood money.
Someone was financially ruined.
How does David Miscavige have $100,000 to give away??
That should be looked into by IRS
I think they both need to do some deprogamming
Peoples lives are ruined because of Scientology
I am not impressed that the guy that designed WISE
My brother went bankrupt thanks to WISE
That podcast reminded me of that guy from OSA
Mike McClaughry
The video where McClaughry is describing his years in the Guardians Office.
He was laughing about the horrible things he did to others and bragging about what a clever genius he was that he spied on people and put LSD in their toothpaste
Thank you for letting me speak my mind
The podcast infuriated me
Ok – carry on
I agree with you both Computer Guy and Brian.
I could not listen to the two guys talking about the many ways they contributed to Scientology. It was like being punched in the gut.
I got into Scientology late in life. I was a trusting person that had no clue a church could destroy me and my family and get away with it. WISE destroyed my business. Scientology destroyed my marriage.
My life was shattered by WISE and Scientology. It really hurt to hear how the two guys seemed proud they helped design this deceitful tech.
There is no science to the purif.
Thank you for saying something and for allowing me to say something too.
I appreciate the freedom to speak my mind.
Mike Rinder – thank you.
Thanks Sam
I too got into the cult later in life
It was devastating to my life
The good stuff trapped me in for a decade
Where the parasitical staff and Sea .Org sucked the life out of me
Anything good about Scientology was nothing but the cheese to set the trap.
I am lucky to have gotten out alive…..barely.
Which makes Marty’s 360 turn even more fascinating
Escapes, denounces Miscavige and holds Hubbard up as the wise sage whose tech is being bastardized by COB
Eventually realizes one can’t bastardize a bastard and denounces LRH as a charlatan
Now he’s back to defending Miscavige and contradicting his previous statements
Oh what a tangled web we weave when we try to defend any aspect of Scientology
Great comments Brian and Computer Guy.
I agree with you the pod cast was too much for me to finish.
I found myself getting angry – real angry. Especially when they were talking about how Robert developed WISE and then wanted to help L Ron Hubbard prove the purif works.
Drugs and alcohol do not lodge in the cells – that is not true.
The purif is used to modify behavior – one of the 4 elements that cults use to trap
Steve Hassan calls it BITE – Behavior, Information, Thought and Emotion control.
The Purif changes your behavior because you stop doing what you were doing and now you are going into a Scientology church where they will start to feed you the propaganda – slowly and covertly.
Where are the toxicology reports that the Purif works as claimed by Hubbard and Scientology.
When ex members brag about how they helped LRH create this monster – Scientology – it hurts.
This is nothing you should be proud of and should do everything within your power to destroy Scientology, IMHO. Please stop bragging on how you helped develop and expand this evil cult.
People DIE and are ruined.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Brian, I agree with you on all your points, but as I understand it, Computer Guy’s point – his, not mine – is that there IS no good whatsoever in Scientology admin tech or in anything LRH created or codified.
Aqua – anything good in Scientology was the bait that set the hook to the mind controlling cult tech
This is not complicated
Scientology is a rigged trap that destroys lives
Thanks, Ethics Particle. I do get that concept.
Piggy-backing on Brian’s astute comment: Regarding the purification rundown, check this out :
https://tonyortega.org/2015/07/04/jon-atack-looking-back-on-a-week-of-scientolog-enturbulation-in-toronto/
In the article, it mentions Angela Harris, Phd, a toxicologist who thoroughly debunks the purification rundown. There have been posts on this blog as well about the subject, including the dangers of ingesting too much niacin
( to “handle” a non-existent ” reactive mind ” ).
I always recommend that people who leave the cult read the FULL TEXT of L. Ron Hubbard’s Affirmations. Once you have made your way through THAT cesspool, consider scientology’s definition of ” ethics ” ( quite Orwellian ) and ponder the significance of ” KSW ” , which basically commands you to do as Flubbard says, and to take it on faith that he is The Source of a ” perfect tech ” that works perfectly, always, without exception and without any change, alteration, or evolution ,for all people, everywhere, for all time, period, no doubts or questions or critical analyses allowed, or needed. Furthermore, even though it is, allegedly, the ONLY route to mankind’s ” spiritual freedom “, and is, allegedly, senior to life itself, it cannot be criticized or challenged, and its organizations, per their own guiding policies, cannot ever admit to wrong-doing; because scientology is perfect, and they deliver scientology, they are therefore perfect and are not subject to the laws, mores, and agreements of non-scientology society(fair game, zone control, etc. ). And so on, ad nauseum…
Never mind the lies and contradictions that litter the so-called ” applied religious philosophy “. It’s toxic shit, designed to enslave and degrade. On that note, Hubbard takes the piss in the PDC lectures, when he talks about games, games-makers( who, surprise!,create the game and its rules,but aren’t subject to those rules), players, and pieces; meaning, he shows his true, amoral, no-fucks-given intentions. Check it out, it will blow your mind.
Scientology boils down to this : ” LET’S SELL THESE PEOPLE A PIECE OF BLUE SKY ” L. RON HUBBARD
Awesome post Mark Foster
You nailed it again
Thanks, Kev. If I can get one Hubbard-lover to actually LOOK at this shit that they believe is so awesome and apply some super-basic critical thinking to it, I’ll be happy.
Another tip for any lurking Hubbard lovers: dispassionately examine the current SCIENTIFIC( you know empirical, factual data) knowledge about human memory and human learning and compare it to “dianetics “. Think of it as doing a ” doubt formula ” , if that makes it easier to look at said data. Hubbard’s ” theories ” should hold up, right ? If anything, the last 60 years of scientific research should merely confirm what ” mankind’s greatest friend ” , cough, choke, ” discovered “…Right? C’mon, use that scientological
” confront” , like the old blowhard told you to…
Mark – it is a high crime to investigate $cientology, the founder, the leader or Scientologists.
That awesome piece of tech keeps the clubbed seals clubbed
LRH
Thank you Mark! Your posts always make my day. Even though I’m a never in I have been reading and studying all this for quite awhile and I just want to see the demise of scientology as soon as possible. I spend hours on this every day in case I can help open someone to that moment of clarity because you never know. . Maybe someone is paying attention. I’m devastated by all the abuses of scientology and the literal destruction of good people. And lrh is one evil human being. I can see fumes of evilness coming out of his mouth like a black gaping hole. Disgusting!
Brian, this is just me relaying history in my life….I had a great time, what can I say. But, I always have a great time. That’s just me without Scientology or Hubbard. In any case, I totally understand and mostly agree with your point of view on this and most things. In fact I credit you with cracking some of that hard, hard shell around every ol’ timer. So, it’s like peeling back an onion layer by layer. So, you’re right, Give them time. 🙂
Robert
You seem like a very sweet man
Maybe you have not fully wrapped your mind around the devastation caused by Scientology to 99.9999999999999% of members.
If you got out with your family intact and you were not financially ruined, maybe Scientology was not too bad for you
For the majority of us – we got annihilated by the tech – lost our identities and were traumatized
Some of us were destroyed financially
Families shattered
And now we are trying to heal from this mind fuck
It’s hard when people talk about how great it was for them
For most – it wasn’t
You may not know that
Thanks for speaking out on Leah’s show with Mike
Thanks for helping Mike
Thanks for speaking out about Scientology and that fat fucker L Ron Hubbard – the criminal con man.
Robert thank you for that. You are awesome. Always having a good time: super awesome!
How you took the criticism just shot you out the roof in my respect for you.
Much thanks
In our area restaurant health inspections are routinely done & the results of those inspections are printed in the local newspaper with restaurant name, location & violations! I can’t begin to count the number of times NOTED the “ice machine chute” was found to be “dirty”….i.e. slimy/moldy etc
Add to that the same noted about the soda flavoring nozzle also dirty with “old syrup”…..and the blade on the can opener not routinely wiped clean. Also food in the walk in cooler not stored 6” off the floor as required, dirty refrigeration fans, paint peeling on the steel storage shelving….I could go on and on.
After these violations are handed to the restaurant owner, a short period of time is given to the restaurant owner to bring violations up to code & the restaurants are then “re-inspected”.
If ANYONE out there is interested in Robert’s potentially LIFE SAVING invention please contact him here through Mike Rinder’s blog…….I am going to try to put the word OUT there & poke and probe around a bit with people in the public health depts. that do restaurant inspections to see if there’s anyone who is willing to help you.
If one *had* gains which they considered gains, that’s what they had. I did. Back in the 60s and 70s. That is my reality. So?
I do not condone, in any way, the evils being done. Nor do I excuse either Hubbard of DinkyDick for the crimes they have committed. But scio could NOT have gone so far if there were NO truth in it. And if Hubbard stole from others, were all those others also fakers?
If I had no other gains, I met my beloved wife in ’77. We didn’t connect romantically for over 20 years, but our friendship was a deep and lasting one. We’re still together. And I got nothing of value from scn? LOL Stick it in your ears!
Peter, just ponder this: however you define a ” gain”, having one or more of them doesn’t validate the veracity or effectiveness of scientology. It is full of holes, lies, contradictions, and fantasies, and Hubbard’s primary motivation increating it was to enrich himself ( see his affirmations and the biographies of him by Atack, Miller, and Corydon ). Hubbard was a hypnotist. Scientology is one huge hypnotic indoctrination machine. It induces short periods of euphoria and creates false memories. There’s a TON of data available to read about how cults and cult leaders manipulate their followers. Hassan’s BITE model was mentioned here. There’s Lifton’s and Singer’s lists of thought control criteria. Also consider confirmation bias and the placebo effect. Personally, I see nothing good in a con that was DESIGNED to enslave, degrade, and defraud its followers. Just my opinion, of course…
In closing, I quote a line from El Con’s Affirmations( get this: he recorded these and hypnotized himself with them):
” ALL MEN AND ELEMENTAL SPIRITS ARE YOUR SLAVES. “
Yes Mark. Those undefinable, undemonstrable “gains” come into play when Hubtard’s promised OBJECTIVE Abilities Gained don’t happen. Which is basically always.
I had “gains” when I went to Disney Land. When I got a foot rub. When I heard a joke.
Scamologists get touchy about them because it is easier than admitting that they were completely scammed. We all were. People clinging to “gains” simply haven’t completely recovered from the mind f@ck that was Hubtard & scamology
Sitting down in a formal auditing/counselling session with an interested and caring auditor/counsellor as I once was and introspecting on and examining one’s life is going to result in “gains” for most people, occasionally transformative. I don’t know how accurate the figure is but someone once told me that 30% of all people get “better” no matter what therapy they follow, although I don’t know how many people looked at Scn as therapy. I didn’t.
In hindsight the numerous control methods of Scn in getting people to believe Scn is the “only way” are obvious. Maybe even in whatever DM is offering these days some people still get gains which keeps them hanging on. I still don’t get how they can rationalize spending four or five grand for an e-meter unless they have money to burn. I guess you join staff and get some free auditing here and there or join the Scientology Country Club for the well to do.
I didn’t realize it as such back in the 1970’s but I carried an attitude of superiority for being in Scn. I considered my role as an auditor to be similar to that of a psychologist but much better than whatever psychology had to offer. People were getting to the examiner with a floating needle so what did I know?
Well, if the end of Scientology is your goal, David Miscavige is your agency. Seems to be taking him a while though…
Can’t wait until you do your interview with Ron when you get the chance, Mike.
Would be nice if people would up-vote the video if they watch it.
Just to balance out OSA’s petty little down-voting of all Ron’s videos.
The downvotes are hilarious
There is a correlation between how much butt hurt a particular video causes Dave and how many down votes there are
it is funny to see how bad Dave is getting his frilly bloomers in a twist, and what his triggers are, by the downvotes.
Chee- David Miscavige spends the tax exempt dollars hiring people to go on the enemies sites and podcasts and down vote.
They call them “Click Farms”
yawn
So predictable – David Miss Management – the little midget dwarf dictator
Robert talks about Diana – she did kind of break out a bit and tried to get into music. But Dave got her back to the Int Base and that’s probably where she still is. I know for sure she was there up to 2000 or so. Driving her little pickup around.
I am sure Dave saw her as a potential rival and she was. But at the Int Base he ground her under his heel so brutally that it just about broke her spirit. Not entirely, she has an acerbic wit that comes out at odd times.
Sometimes she used to go to events and sit in the front row in her Class A uniform, and do the odd seminar or something. Never anything that gave her a leadership role of any kind. Just for show.
When I first met her, around ’85 maybe? she was assigned to be the Rushes Projectionist. Basically a menial job for someone like her. She did that for years, later I heard she was writing scripts.
Dave seems to have taken the old adage too seriously – keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
He used to hold out just enough of a carrot on a stick for those trapped at the Int Base to keep some slight hope alive. Let them speak at events or make actual decisions that he would countermand or mock. But something happened early on in the Ideal Org project that turned him sour on the Command Structure of Scientology. He turned to the whales and Tom Cruise and utterly marginalized everyone else.
Probably just because he could.
“But something happened early on in the Ideal Org project that turned him sour on the Command Structure of Scientology.”
Let me take a guess what it was:
He was embarrassed because he knew that his Ideal Org Program was light-years off-policy, and not only did he know it but he knew his immediate juniors knew it too, and therefore found it difficult to confront them?
Informative comment, Bruce. And chilling.