To be honest, I am still catching my breath from the airing of Going Clear last night. Thank you to everyone who wrote, texted, tweeted, called and otherwise made their support and appreciation known. It was a bit overwhelming.
Also, I am not as industrious as Tony Ortega. And despite what the church says, I have work I need to do in order to make a living.
Those are my justifications for not doing a posting of my own this morning, and I am sticking to them.
But I am not in any way apologizing for telling you that you must read the article Tony Ortega has on his blog this morning.
It is stunning and undeniable evidence of disconnection in the church of scientology today. Truly, the Thought Police are in full bloom. And it is poetic justice that their penchant for recording everything is coming back to bite them in the ass.
I know Sylvia and Tim DeWall. I became friends with them as a result of the ordeal they went through. They are great people. Just the sort of people that the church cannot afford to lose. They represent the substance of what used to be the scientology community. Hard working families who volunteered their time to do what they thought was right and beneficial to the community. Of course, these days they are the serf class in scientology. The whales are nurtured and protected. The real people are discarded without so much as a second thought. I DO want to sincerely thank the church for helping me make many wonderful friends, some of the greatest people I know I have met because they were driven out of the church. We were sad when Sylvia and Tim decided (understandably) to move away and no longer live in the shadow of scientology in Clearwater.
Scientology doesn’t have Tommy Davis, or anyone at all for that matter, to deny that disconnection exists on national TV. But they have done their best to try and “dead agent” Sara Goldberg’s heart-wrenching story in Going Clear. Well, here is some extremely recent evidence that supports everything Sara and hundreds of others say.
You have to hear this recording to believe it. Though anyone who has had the dubious pleasure of sitting in front of one the Nazi Youth Automatons called Flag Ethics Officers will find this eerily familiar.
To steal a very appropriate turn of phrase from a regular commenter at Tony’s blog — Scientology, it’s always worse than you thought.
Part 472.
VERY WELL DONE MIKE!!! I WAS STAFF MEMBER IN SCIENTOLOGY MEXICO FOR 8 YEARS. THE BEST WERE BEING DECLARED SUPPRESSIVE. WOW WHAT RELIEF!!!
THE ETHICS IS USED FOR MENTAL CONTROL AND THE BRAIN WASHING IN THIS NAZI SYSTEM-
THE TRUE ETHICS BORN WITH PLATON AND ARISTOTELES, THEY WERE AUTHENTIC PHILOSOPHERS, AND NOT PSEUDO-FILOSOFIA OF AN OLD-MAN CRAZY.
I ALSO HAVE MANY STORIES OF SCIENTOLOGY IN MEXICO AND I GONNA DO!!!
IN SPANISH: SOY TESTIGO DE MUCHOS ABUSOS Y ESCLAVITUD HACIA EL STAFF, IMAGINENSE SI EN ESTADOS UNIDOS EL STAFF MUERE DE HAMBRE CON LA MISERIA DE “PAGA” EN MEXICO SIENDO UN PAIS LATINO SUBDESARROLLADO “ES PEOR” EL MISERABLE 30% DEL CGI (CORRECTED GLOBAL INCOME). EN LA ORG PUDE PRESENCIAR MUCHA CORRUPCION POR PARTE DE LA TESORERIA (DIV 3) EN EL MANEJO DEL DINERO- ESTA ORGANIZACION DEBERIA DE DARLE CLASES A LAS MEJORES MAFIAS DEL PLANETA.
SORRY BY MY POOR ENGLISH!!!
CONGRATULATIONS MIKE!! WE ARE THOUSANDS O MORE WITH YOU.
Hey Dog,
I assume that you are reaching out to me. If so, my handle is actually Espiritu.
I am not sure what you are talking about regarding DVDs. You may have me confused with someone else.
In any event, I can see the reply buttons on my computer. But that same thing does happen to me occasionally on this blog. I’m not sure why. I would try refreshing your computer, and if that doesn’t work just post your message here saying “Hi Espiritu”.
I will search for my name and find it your message.
Thanks for your reply. The person I wanted to address my reply to has the handle of “Spirit”. His post is about the 63rd down from the top (including the reply posts). Actually, his post is a reply post. It’s confusing because of the unusual number of posts on this special day.
Great observation, Tory. Mike could be the “before and after” poster guy for a new health improvement business targeting SO members and suppressed bubble dwellers. The business could even become multilevel in nature with clients promoting the product to others and, uh….oh, that’s right. Good Job, Mike!
Spirit – Your post didn’t have a reply button. We need to talk on-line privately or by email, about the DVD you requested. Is there a way?
They are actually mad. They really think that applying those mad policies protect them. And is the only way scientology will survive. And ultimately will bring total freedom. A complete utopia, like communism. They see a kind of magic thing, ritual, which has to be respected which will bring survival. Like human sacrifice. So, there is no hatred but a complete acceptance of the rules.
This exist also with the laws sometimes. Actually when a rule become more important than common sense, it become totalitarian state. He could have said “Ok, I don’t declare you, but please stay out of those ennemies of our group.” She would have more or less agreed. Gone fully dissafected but they would still not have a couple of dedicated ennemies.
They should read PTS SP course about creating antagonism.
The tech works. So does cancer.
Hi Michael, From very personal experience with both,you are so correct! In Truth, Ann Watson.
This Daniel is so cool. Very calm. He is like a good compassionate STASI agent. No arbitrary, he is applying the rules. That’s it. No flinching in applying the law, with good Trs 0 to 4.
They apply the disconnection policies to the details. No “tech degrade”. Real “confronting”. They apply it to each word.
I read a book about the nazi einstatzgruppen in Poland to exterminate jews. They also did it “on policy”. There was a mountain community of jews, but they weren’t sure those people were fully jews, fitting the definition. So an expert came from Berlin, to study those people to see if they were actually jew. Very polite experts, handling questions. Saying that if the finding was that they were not jews, their heart will be happy. But if they are jew, so unfortunate. Then they would have to apply the policy. No hatred, no hard feeling. That was the rules and one lives by the rules.
How a philosophy of freedom like scientology has become a totalitarian group?
The actions of corporate scientologists are a complete reversal of humility. The MAA is one who is the suppressive, and that is the truth!
Seldom have I felt sick to my core but to witness such atrocities strikes at the very integrity of being a human being. The roboticness and savagery employed by that MAA upon a woman expecting here to originate either slave devotion to a insanely constructed and dominated lifestyle or disconnect from her family are something even the most primitive of mind sets would find abhorrent.
The last comments of Sylvia I find really particularly chilling in that she indicates that MAA has drilled and finely honed his ability to calmly rip families apart in the name of $cientology. In other words he’s had lots of experience in doing what he does and has been nurtured and granted that power by his seniors. He is seen as an upstat by his organisation and hence rewarded. Given a different decade and circumstances and that MAA would have had the silver death’s head insignia of the SS or Gestapo on his collar but still have the teenage face.
Please wake up world, disconnection as practiced by the Cof$ is a stepping stone from that sort of pure evil, it must be stopped!
Mike, I cannot thank you enough for your fantastic presentation in “Going Clear”.
Truly, each of you were fantastic! It was amazing to see you look SO dark, thin and hollow when “in”,
and SO full, smiling and fantastic now out! Great job and thank you very, very much!
Tory/Magoo
“Miscavige, I assume, is hoping to milk a few more million out of the whales before they too become aware.”
Hasn’t Captain Dave ever heard about what happened to Captain Ahab?
(Hey Dave …”Thar She Blows!”)
Hi Paul,
The story of your experience with Scientology mirrors mine pretty much exactly. At one time the Tech of Scientology was not usually applied so robotically and devoid of understanding, intelligence, & kindness as has been done for the past couple of decades. I too had many wins which I continue to have and expand upon today. To get where the COS is today has been a very gradual process kind of like the proverbial boiling a frog by starting him out in cold water and gradually “warming it up” until he is dead.
Yes, I was allowed to disagree with anything about Scientology back in the day. The only thing that a good course supervisor wanted from me was to make sure that I actually understood what I was disagreeing with. And yes, I too would be a happy customer if the DM had not so cleverly engineered his big bait and switch scheme.
However, what we have going on today is just as Mike describes it and as the recording he links to on Tony Ortega’s blog demonstrates. This is the casual, “Brave New World” , no-sympathy-tone-level “product” being dispensed by the Church of Dave today. The people dispensing this (like the MAA in the tape) are not “Cold, Chrome Steel” heros…they are really just broken people with tape recorders shoved up their butts so that they can avoid personal responsibility for what they say and do.
LISTEN TO THE TAPE.
As an actual Scientologist it is disgusting to hear this, but it is better to know the truth about what is going on, because only then is is possible that SOMETHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT.
Been there, done that in 2004. I know the DeWalls and you guys are good people. Well done on keeping your family in tact! Having moved out of the Clearwater environment myself I truly understand your need to get away. Listening to the video reminded me exactly what I went through in 2004 when the church tried to force me to quit my job because they “knew” the company I was working for was going to be raided by the IRS. Not true, but they never let truth get in their way. Jeez what jerks those little Nazi MAAs were and still are. I hope your life is great!
I again watched Going Clear tonight. I believe I got even more out of it tonight than last night. If only the remaining faithful could see this, enough doubt would be planted that many of the them would leave. Too bad that won’t happen, but a lot of never ins have been educated and no doubt are shocked by what they have just seen.
I’m just wondering if Greta Van Susteren will be forced to disconnect from Fox News and Megyn Kelly since Megyn interviewed Mike on Fox News….just sayn
If Greta donates enough to Dave’s slush fund, we’re all good.
Another strong article. This one has already hit half a million views and is on the yahoo home page: http://www.businessinsider.com/going-clear-hbo-scientology-documentary-celebrity-reactions-2015-3
I watched GC last night, and will again tonight. RE: the above discussion about how ethics is applied– if the PC is public and can pay the freight and he is making case gain, all an ethics officer would be concerned about is what is keeping him from further auditing or training and more inflow of money into the Church. The Sea Org ethics experience usually concerns one’s performance on post, and it has been noted over and over on this and other blogs just how much harsher Sea Org parishioners are dealt with than are public. Unfortunately, the Church wittingly or unwittingly has treated Sea Org members as chattel.
I am addicted to following Scientology and their apparent full from grace.
My hats off to Mike and Marty and guys like Tony, they are natural leaders and presented themselves as sane men who were involved in an insane CULT.
Cheers Mike, you are one of the good GUYS>>
This is sick. For fuck sake this is sick. How come this organisation is still legal?
They made the IRS an offer they couldn’t refuse.
Ravrak, because in the US, the gov cannot legislate religion. (thank f-ing G-d) One of the items that made it the greatest country on Earth. Freedom of Association is a human right. I don’t want to belong to the insane cult, so I don’t. Others (less than .003% of the population) do… The truth about the insane cult is available for ALL to see.
Just done reading the DeWall’s story at Ortega’s. Quite shocking, but then DM’s only stat that’s in Affluence is number of declares. He can’t help himself and he’ll obsessively chop himself up to pieces.
With so many declares and people leaving and now the film, it can’t be too long for us to be rid of him. Haven’t seen the film yet in Israel, is there any way to buy it in the U.S.?
Dear Dani,
As soon as I get some HBO Going Clear ( DVD) will send you a couple copies..
You know, if the church just let people leave who were unhappy, and said “we’re sorry you were unhappy, but you’re welcome back at any time with no hoops to jump through, and we wish you the best. In addition, you’re welcome to come to any of our events and please communicate with as many Scientologists as you can.”
If they would just say that, they’d have very few enemies. And lots of friends.
Yeah, but then it wouldn’t be an exclusive club. Where’s the fun in that?
The part of the recording that really got to me was “you’ve committed a lot of suppressive acts: you talked to a person, you wrote a letter, you sent a person mail.” Holeee CHIT! A true suppressive in our midst. Someone who communicated. How much more evil can you get than that? Everyone batten down the hatches.
Huh?
“Communication is the universal solvent; it solves all things”. -LRH And so it is and does. Naturally, the czerch does its best to stamp it out! LOL
I agree Valerie, it’s no wonder they got declared after doing all of those horrible things!
A little late to think of this, but tprelistenung to,that ethics cycle describes Scirntology in a nutshell.
Sylvia was declared for:
1. Communicating
2. Telling the truth
The two worst possible things someone who wants to remain inside the cos walls could possibly do.
Nice to see that MAA 47x standard. He’s a great example of the Golden Age of Dreck.
My son watched #goingclear last night. I haven’t seen it yet, won’t get to see it until I get to the big city again on April 2. It doesn’t matter. I know what’s in it and I can wait that long. We had a conversation this morning. He found out who his mom used to be. He is digesting that now. He’s going to watch the movie again with that knowledge.
I listened to Sylvia’s recording, then read the aftermath of that recording and realized that the strongarm mob tactics of the cos are no longer effective and I laughed. Trying to make one person robotically conform lost them a whole family. Yep, that’s the way it’s done.
There are so many families that scientology has ripped apart in the name of “religion” it is always heartwarming to hear of one that didn’t suffer.
Good on Sylvia for sticking to her guns and good on Tim for loving his wife and standing by her side.
Mike – I just want to tell you how great you look. The most shocking thing for me last night watching Going Clear was your appearance. Man, you look like a million bucks now. Then,
you looked a little like that expression – “one foot in the grave.” It is so great to see you looking healthy and alive plus you got a great accent.
What a trooper you are Sylvia! I’m proud to call you a friend. It took incredible guts and courage knowing the consequences to speak your mind to this punk. Godless bastard was probably told to take you off premise in case there be a flap. And you flapped well 🙂 Amazing what the church has devolved into under the guise religion of religions. The divine one, appointed by none other than himself, the pope of all popes, Miscavige, the wicked heartless bitch of the west.
Note: I’ve posted this same request over on Mark Rathbun’s blog as well.
Hi All,
This comment/question is addressed to ex-Scientologists or any independent Scientologists:
I am a clinical therapist (LMSW, although my “C” clinical supervision hours are completed). I’ve been involved in anti-Co$ work since about 2007. One of the things that has always been of central interest to me is the auditing process, in part because many ex-Scientologists point to basic auditing as something they in many cases found beneficial.
So here is what I have been curious about for the better part of a decade: In clinical therapy (I’m talking about forms of Cognitive Therapy and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, as well as Exposure Therapy), one of the tools we use to assist in treatment is biofeedback monitoring. This is especially important in treatments for anxiety disorders and PTSD. Although use of GSR devices is fairly limited (you mostly find them used in “relaxation” kits for home use on Amazon), I am wondering about their potential for application as a tool alongside normal evidence-based forms of therapy in the effective treatment of a range of mental health conditions. Past clinical studies have had not-so-great results with normal GSR devices on the market. However, what I have read repeatedly from ex-church members is that the E-meter is essentially a finely tuned, highly sensitive GSR meter. And so, I’m wondering if there are any ex- or independent scientologists, particularly those who have experience working as auditors, who would be able to speak with me about this a little more, and maybe answer some questions I have about the role of the E-meter in the auditing process.
I understand some people will be sensitive about this request, and I would like to emphasize as much as possible that my goal here is not to ruffle feathers or bring up hurt feelings. I made what was an apparently huge mistake and posted this same request in the comments over at Tony’s site, where I was immediately accused of working for Co$ or not understanding my own profession. Some people recommended that I post this request on Mark & Mike’s blogs for more level-headed feedback.
Anyway, if you fit the description I’ve mentioned and would be willing to let me pick your brain a bit, I’d be much obliged, and if you can reply to my comment, hopefully we could find a secure way to exchange email addresses or other contact information. I’d be more than willing to answer any additional (sincere) questions people have about the nature of my inquiry.
Regardless, thank you to all who took the time to read this,
Daniel
As far as my own experience with the e-meter, it’s really just an “indicator” of mind activity. It does nothing specifically for the individual.
The “indicator” of activity is actually what I’m curious about, specifically. Please let me know if you could spare a few moments to discuss it via email. Either way, thanks for your response!
Hi Daniel,
Good question. I was familiar with some of the GSR units that were available back in the early 70s when I was studying psychology in university.
I would agree that when you know how to interpret the needle reactions, it does give you an edge in helping a client isolate sources of trauma or concern and it helps in knowing when the procedure is done.
My recommendation would be http://www.theta-meter.com.
The units they produce are comparable with Hubbards emeter but cost $400 instead of $5,000. We’ve been testing them lately and are quite happy with the results.
I’ve trained a couple of practicing psychologists in the use of an emeter and taught them some simple processes they can use it with. Both of them prefer not to have the device between them and their clients, but both found it useful under a number of different conditions.
Les
Hi Les,
Thanks so much for the thoughtful response. Would it be possible for me to contact you directly in some way? I have a number of other questions and concerns, but it would probably be easier to discuss them privately via email, if that’s something you’re comfortable with (I realize that, being a total stranger on the internet, it may not be).
Daniel – Just trying to be practical here. You may run into problems that date back to the early days of Dianetics and Scientology and the use of an e-meter, and those are very simply that Dn and Scn are a distinct and integral science. You don’t use a parka in summer, or paper scissors to mow the lawn, and so on. Bits and pieces of Scn here and there is not a good idea if you do not understand the entirety of your training level specifically in Scn. The e-meter was designed for use in Scn and comes with necessary training for various types of needle phenomena which very probably are not germane to your practice. It registers changes in mental mass – and really that’s all it does, and that’s all there is to it. It is up to the auditor with the proper training to interpret, to some extent. The essential to auditing is communication, which provides the context for interpretation, so in some circumstances one specific movement could be expected and good, while in another context the same movement would be unexpected and either not good or indicative of some other action. Ideally, an e-meter merely confirms the auditor’s observation and knowledge. So you in your use might see some movement, and not know how to interpret it – possibly that’s one reason other GSR devices have not been so successful in use. They may register with varying sensitivities, but essentially are measuring the same things – which may not be interpreted properly. For example: It might be thought of to keep airline pilots on an e-meter somehow, but the same difficulties arise, that the meter is a specific design for a specific purpose and monitoring airline pilots even if someone figured out how, would not yield the results intended. I think most auditors would say something similar to what I’ve said. It isn’t that we want to selfishly restrict use or be snotty about it, just that we understand – if I read you correctly – that you’re thinking of using it for a use it was not intended for and it seems to me very doubtful you would get the results you may expect. All I can think of is that you would wish to observe a relaxed state, which would probably be a “free needle” or a “floating needle” but if you observe something other than that, what would you do? An e-meter is not used in Scn in a “passive state of monitoring” but in an active state of auditing. The FDA already put up a big stink about the e-meter being “an unlicensed medical device” (they didn’t care if it was beneficial or not, or how it was used, just that the FDA was apparently prompted by the AMA to shut it down because that would accomplish whatever their objectives were). That was resolved with a sticker on each one stating that it is not a medical device but is used for spiritual counseling, and if the spiritual counseling results in an improvement in health or a cessation of psychosomatic illness, then that is an incidental result, which no one in their right mind would seek to restrict or prevent as that would restrict freedom of thought, and from there it went solidly to the First Amendment. The idiocy never ceases, sometimes, but you see what I’m driving at? The e-meter is designed for use in spiritual counseling specific to Scientology methodologies. If you wish to do spiritual counseling (auditing) then try it, but I think that if you want to do something else, you probably would be better off designing something that served as a passive monitor, and in that regard, a simple course in auditing would go a long way towards explaining what you are looking at when you see a movement, and how to interpret it.
For a specific example: Scn training teaches the difference between a free needle and what is called an “ARC-break” needle. The former is a relaxed and tranquil state, while the latter is indicative of what you might call a sadness, or even a “tranquility of grief.” The two states are very different, but the needle phenomena are similar, and it takes a certain amount of training to tell the difference – which is why I say that the auditor is the essential element of interpretation, and not the e-meter, since any fool should be able to tell the difference between a smile and turned down corners of the mouth, and should have a very good idea of what just happened without having to stick his face into the e-meter dial. But the difference in phenomena is discernible, and the meter is there to confirm – provided the guy knows how to read one. An eye on the PC is essential. Hubbard once quipped something to the effect: ~~ What are you waiting for? The e-meter to whistle Dixie? It won’t. It was made in the Nawth. ~~
First of all, thank you so, so much for taking the time to write such a thorough reply. From what I understand, you’re essentially saying that 1) the meter should be viewed within a specific kind of counseling context, and 2) the counselor is the most important part of the counseling equation, particularly when it comes to even knowing what to make of a reading. The second point (the counselor and their skill set), I think, is a given for any therapist. The first point is a big part of what I’m curious about, such as with the helpful examples you provided. If it’s okay with you, as I’ve mentioned to someone else as well, I have some more questions that I’d like to ask, as well some other things I’d love your perspective on. If I set up a temporary email address to exchange contact info (even DM over twitter would work, if you use twitter), would it be possible for me to borrow a little more of your time and insight? Thanks again, honestly it was very helpful as a starting point.
Also, before I forget to ask: Do you think there would be a significant difference in outcome or benefit on the part of the person being counseled, or on the part of the counselor, if counseling took place entirely without the use of the meter?
Daniel – Very courteous of you. Les has about 1,000 times as much auditing experience as I do, and apparently he has some familiarity with GSR’s as well as some experience in coaching non-Scns in possible uses, so I defer to his opinions on this. But yes, you interpreted what I was saying correctly. On your question about whether use of a meter is better or worse, part of Scn training and experience is transparency of the e-meter. In other words the PC is not aware of either the meter or the auditor taking notes (unless the PC checks to see if the auditor is “writing this all down because it’s very important” in which case the auditor busily scratches away with his pen and makes paper noises with an intense look on his face. Auditing without a meter is by-the-book at times, depending on the style (e.g. a simple form is “listen style” which is what it sounds like), and processes (e.g. objective processes in which auditor and PC are ambulatory), but for some specific auditing actions a meter is really a necessity. I just have a bit of a beef with “robotic” auditing in which the auditor pays more attention to the meter than to the PC. There is a lot to auditing – but I’m way over my head compared to Les’ expertise and would just confuse you. My real feelings are different from Les’ more broad-minded view, and I would suggest that Scn is better than other forms of therapy, both in rapidity and in depth, but Scns (like me) get hit with the “you are so convinced and so close-minded and so pushy” syndrome, so you see another reason why I defer to Les. To me, 2+2=4 and there is no other correct answer. (Watch … someone here may attack me for having said that.) In auditing, 2+2=4 means communication and a good, clean comm cycle. Les has miles and miles of experience beyond mine, and there is no substitute for that.
While I wait for a response from Les, I definitely see what you are saying about a preference for auditing over other modes of therapy and why you would be naturally hesitant to see the meter used out of its intended context. I understand your feelings about not wanting to mix things up too much: one of my pet peeves is when a therapist advertises themselves as “eclectic” on their website or online listing, going on to give a laundry list of different treatment modalities they use. Almost 100% of the time this just means they are a jack of all trades, master of none. Moreover, there are plenty of treatment forms that are comprehensive and manualized, and not designed to be mixed with other treatment approaches. That is to say, we have a number of reliable studies saying, “Yes, this method works to treat X, Y, and Z types of problems,” but once you start mixing in a lot of other treatment methods or philosophies, there is no evidence to support that kind of practice anymore. It might work, but it just as well might not be effective.
On a related note, sometimes we conduct (or in my case, read a lot of) what are called “component analyses,” which basically means you take a look at all of the different components of a formulated treatment method and see which ones are actually producing effective outcomes down to a statistically significant level. For instance, a very popular therapy in the last ten years, especially for treating Borderline Personalities, has been DBT. However, when at least one component analysis of DBT demonstrated that all of the effective aspects of the therapy are common to most standard forms of cognitive behavioral therapy, and all of the novel stuff about it yielded no statistically significant results, either positive or negative. All of this to say, I think good therapy models stand up to scientific scrutiny, as do their individual components. Once you can isolate one component as effective, it is then possible to consider transferring it to another similar model of treatment. This is the way treatment models can cease being package deals all the time. But like I said, it’s always something that should be approached with caution.
I would be quite interested, even if just for curiosity’s sake, in seeing what results the auditing model of counseling can produce outside of the rest of Scn itself (minus the rest of “the bridge,” especially all the added stuff beyond “clear”). This is especially because even among many ex-Scientologists, one common thing I find in their interviews is that they have a lot of positive things to say about certain components of auditing and early levels, but as soon as things move beyond “clear,” many seem to not see much benefit at all. Of course, it’s entirely possible I’ve misunderstood all of that. There’s also the important question of: how much of a difference is there between “spiritual counseling” and “mental health [emotional] counseling,” when dealing with things that don’t exceed your typical kinds of mood disorders and neuroses.
It’s also worth noting that there are some persistent treatment approaches that remain wildly popular and even after decades have been shown to have no scientifically valid results. The biggest offenders in this category are psychoanalysis (best data only shows that it’s better than no treatment at all, which is not a very useful point of comparison), and the 12 Step model for addiction treatment (tons of anecdotal evidence to support it, but all actual studies have shown it produces zero meaningful results–it works for the people who would quit X on their own regardless, and fails for people who wouldn’t). Every treatment approach has its true believers. My feeling is that deciding on a treatment approach is best left up to a collaboration between the therapist and the client, but that it’s certainly the therapist’s responsibility to give the client as much objective information possible about different models, their success rates, and their applications, before proceeding; and where they can’t provide the kind of treatment the client needs, to refer them to someone who can.
Anyway, sorry for such a long response, and again, I certainly appreciate your feelings and input on the matter. Hopefully I’ll hear back from Les!
الشيخ دانيال الجعفري The e-meter is nothing but a Wheatstone bridge, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheatstone_bridge It was used on me by the highest trained people in Scn. As the PC (patient) I could make it do whatever I wanted. As it ONLY measures resistance of the body to electricity, one trained in electronics can easily manipulate the readings while holding the “cZns”
Thank you for the feedback. I see what you’re saying. I’ve had clients who were exceptionally good at lying in therapy even without a biofeedback device, especially when the client is mandated to treatment. Let me ask though: if someone did not go out of their way to manipulate the readings, what are your overall thoughts on its general or potential efficacy as a tool (obviously within the context of manualized/trained counseling)?
You have a misunderstanding. A Wheatstone Bridge (go back to your basic electronics education) ONLY measures electrical resistance in ohm’s. It does NOT detect lying or any other condition. As the brain’s neurons “fire” that can change the resistance to the small current. As any type of human behavior, diagnostic tool, the Wheatstone bridge is useless.
John, Sorry I don’t think I was clear enough in my response. I’m not suggesting it would detect lying. I was just giving an example of how the therapist and their skill set is the most important part of the equation in any kind of 1:1 counseling. But yes, I believe I understand your point–although it’s impossible for me to return to my basic electronics education, since I have never had any (I guess I learned soldering once in middle school, but that was ages ago, and not really electronics-related in and of itself).
There’s lots of emeter information online if you google emeter and include Scientology in the search. One basic principle you might not see in the online information is that auditor + pc > (is greater than) the pc’s bank. To liken this to your area of study, therapist + client > the client’s issues. The emeter is used for many Scientology processes but not necessary for all of them. The above basic principle IS necessary to bring about results.
“Greater than” in what sense?
Hi Daniel. I don’t have a lot of auditing experience, but here’s the link to a pdf copy of Hubbard’s book *Understanding the E-meter*, subtitled *A Book on the Basics of How the E-Meter Works*. It explains the mechanics of the mind as well as the e-meter. It’s very interesting information: http://e-meter-star.com/books.files/Understanding_the_E_Meter.pdf
Thanks for the tip!
I’m sure that more than one wise teacher has taught that sometimes, in order to see clearly what a thing or being is, often one has to learn what it isn’t. Out of the experience of mass betrayal at the hands of corrupt forces masquerading lies as truth, the good and earnest people still trapped in Scientology and other controlling cults will inevitably gravitate to the light and be freed from their prison of belief. Rather than be just a neutral, silent, relieved group of individuals, I believe their collective intention to correct wrongs will be incredibly powerful.
The evolution of Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun and many others are perfect examples.
I believe the out-flowing tide of good people from Scientology will build into a wave of desire and intention to heal what’s truly wrong with the planet – egoism, lust for money and power, and the dehumanizing of others – everything Scientology has become.
God Bless all of you.
Wow, I slept in this morning. A mountain of news about HBO Going Clear
and one ad that D.M. has ordered Ludicrous speed !!!!
Having a few cups of hot coffee and Cold pizza from the Going Clear party.
So my guess is over 50 million SP’s were declared for watching the Boob tube,
my question is if the 4 foot 13 inch giant will respond with a bigger, newer “Hole” or
a snazzy new CD that is a must have for the sheeple.
This is all just proof of how effective the Co$ is!! All the SP’s are attacking the Opinion Leaders!! THAT is PROOF!! And above and beyond that, extending the boundaries of imagination further than the impossible made achievable, and moreover … etc..
Kind of off topic, but just a quick note. I twice walked by the “ideal org” in Madrid, Spain today (wasn’t Cruise at the opening?). First time at 12:45 so lunch time, but completely empty, a body router (I think that’s what she was doing out front). Then again at 2:30. This time I walked around the whole perimeter of the org. They have largw windows encircling the building, maybe 20 feet high, so easy to see in. Again, virtually empty. There were three reg desks, no regges, no prospects. Bookstore empty, no one. Two people standing up at reception (looked like staff). I didn’t see the academy area of course, but … uhm … NOT straight up and vertical, folks.
Over the next 12 months there are 3 groups of people that will start to come out of the closet: 1) People “in”, will walk out and talk. 2) Reporters afraid to report will report the talk. 3) Government agencies will investigate the reports because the the general public (due to HBO) is on their side…
Miscavige will attack all 3 groups and prove the church of Scientology is no “religion” at all because it is blackmailing departing members with their confessional secrets… only criminals extorting money do this sort of thing and the church of Scientology does this on a regular basis. LRH said it was not done “for the money” so it is not against the law?? But today of course it is for the money. It keeps the whales and celebs in line, that’s for sure.
HBO’s Going Clear Part II is already on the drawing boards I am sure…
Tony comments in his interview this morning on HuffPo Live that Gibney’s ‘first cut’ was 4 hours long! There are other comments that make this 35 min interview that includes John Sweeney and Sara Goldberg worth watching.
http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/hbo-going-clear-scientology/5514adee78c90a68c7001153
as a ps, Mike, there was also an article reporting on Andrew Sullivan’s life as a blogger…how the stress of it wore him down to the point where he quit in February…please take good care of yourself…for your immediate family and those of us who have come to care about and admire you so much from meeting you here.
Hi Aurora,I totally agree with you as to Mike & his family.I really send them many good thoughts for much health & happiness & freedom all the time.I know stress plays a big role in our body & mindset.I know my spirit soars above the other two,but after I blew the SO @ Asho F after almost 4 years of true belief that I was living the dream for Ron,after enduring a year of sec checking & treason conditions,& being on The Excaliber which I loved back then & scrubbing asbestos off the pipes of what is now CC,but we knew as the Hotel Org,with no family history @ all, I have battled back from 2 different cancers.I laugh about it today,otherwise I would cry all the time,but stress from all the above definitely contributes.Yes I do so care & admire Mike & all those that I have met & will meet on this blog.A Forever Friend Ann Watson.
“It is stunning and undeniable evidence of disconnection in the church of scientology today. Truly, the Thought Police are in full bloom. And it is poetic justice that their penchant for recording everything is coming back to bite them in the ass.”
Since their juvenile vilification of anyone and everyone who dares to proffer the truth about their own crimes is not working, they have no choice but up the gradient on disconnection. Miscavige, I assume, is hoping to milk a few more million out of the whales before they too become aware.
You guys all did such a great job on the documentary, Mike. Hope you are requested to do a lot of follow up interviews with the now unafraid media.
Someone commented about the I-phone in a handbag caper.
Sylvia surely did something like this. I presume the photograph
is the location of the event.
Congrats Sylvia you made the MAA look like a jerk and gave
a weapon anyone can use when the CO$ says “no disconnection”.
Lol! SP for watching “Dancing with the Stars”. How can anyone
now take seriously anything that comes from that dying corpse
of an organisation.
It is quite obvious to me that those scientologists who watch ‘Going Clear’ with an open, questioning mind have completed OT IX. Those who leave the church and publicly condemn its abuses have achieved OT X
Another great article – there http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/movies/news/a38394/scientology-going-clear-tom-cruise-girlfriend-groomed/
Tim DeWall is a fine man for standing by his wife and family. What a great husband and father!
Sylvia did her best with the ethics officer Daniel. It was never going to go her way, no matter what she said or did; past or present. I admire the volunteer work Sylvia did on behalf of the church when she really didn’t consider herself a member, yet saw some good to be done and did her part. It shows how thankless the church is and really doesn’t care about people or what good they do. It only cares for its dogma and the conformity of its members.
Yea, but it only cares about its dogma enough to use to control its members.
Mike, rhank you for all you have done to get the truth out. I felt very liberated watching the film. Especially when Haggis said WTF! I cheered! So good to be free!
Sylvia,
I can tell from your interview that you’re a great person . . . so real, so authentic, so kind. I hope you never second guess your decision. Actually, you’re all the things anyone would want to be . . . smart, decent, curious, caring, and more. It comes across. I admire how you stood up for yourself.
I don’t know if this will help, but I can tell you I left twenty years ago after doing a lion’s share of the entire bridge on both sides. Leaving, without a question, was the BEST decision I ever made in my life. I stood up for myself too when pushed over the line. That’s what people should do.
Over the years to come, you’ll see again and again you dodged a serious bullet and then some.
I wish you the very best from the bottom of my heart!
Dave, while you’re making that big order of Macallan, do everyone a big favor – scotch the whole operation and move on to Target 1.1.
The problem is that, for him, Target 1.1 is Hollywood Boulevard. That’s still not far away enough from us. As to what is far enough away, we can start off with the New Horizons probe and move on from there.
I had another location for Target 1.1, far from Teegeeack.
I was thinking that Pluto was the perfect place for someone this fucking Goofy.
Pluto is too close.
47 light years beyond Arslycus.
DM should aspire to be a thetan circling Uranus in the next life. Get it? YOUR ANUS!!!
Maybe we will be lucky enough to see Him go into orbit around the black Hole known as Hisanus.
Or perhaps he could join that famous overlord dude who’s stuck in an electronic mountain trap. Where is that, by the way?
“I made the decision that my wife was more important to me than a disconnection order on a piece of paper.” Perfect.
Silvia and Tim, you’ll love your new found freedoms. I love your integrity.
I wonder … does OSA still keep an entheta/theta ration graph?
Hmmm …. would be nice to see.
Speaking of theta rations, I think they could use some more.
Yea, Michael, but OSA has no where else to suck it from. It declared all its theta sources.
Yeah, it’s a real problem. Carry on guys!
Dear MIke
HBO will show the Docu again this evening. I looked at it on the Internet last night with the link that you finally deleted. As I’m a computer technician I’d no problems with the malware and all this nonsense wasn’t popping up on my computer and I could see the whole program here in Switzerland.
If you want you want you cn publish it again, and I give here some recommendations so that nobody will have any trouble watching it. I can garantee it. Any person on this Planet can then look the docu over the Internet.
The first thing to do is to install this ad and malware blocking Software that one can download here:
https://adblockplus.org/en/
Its the best adware blocking software, after installing it all of ad and malware is gone , you see only the ads from the companies that paid for a certificate that their ads are not obstrusive.
Your browser will become very calm .
then you start the link and can enjoy HBO…
I just wanted to help
Not speaking for Mike, but perhaps keeping calm and waiting for it to be available legally is a better alternative? In the meantime, reading the intros on the Underground Bunker last week and the book itself will give you 90% of the information.
I say this as a fellow regionally disadvantaged person (in this respect).
Hi Roger, I did a checkup on the site from here in the US. What I saw was not adware. There were browser hijacks, links to ransomware and other malicious software. These types of servers publish different contents on some round robin type schedule. Sometimes it is rather harmless adware and then the feed some very malicious content. It is not a static site and they keep it that way so some people have apparent success promote their link and they can hit randomly others.
Not everybody gets lucky to just get the adware has computer skills like you to know ways to protect themselves.
Posting and thereby promoting these types of links is IMO a bit reckless as it puts a lot of people in danger to loose important information, being hacked or subject to ransom demands.
So my recommendation would be not to promote this.
Well, I’ve been using adblocker for years with no problems. It’s a free app for both Mac & MS.
CNET reviews gave this adblocker a great review…..I loaded it.
Thanks Gerhard for checking into this. And thanks Roger for wanting to help. I had commented yesterday on this when my anti-virus and my anti-malware had both flagged me not to proceed after I clicked the link that Mike then deleted yesterday. So I didn’t proceed. I’m not a computer expert. So this is good info for me. If anybody knows how I can buy the HBO movie on DVD please let me know.
I just finished watching “Going Clear” and I have to say it was compelling to say the least. I was on lines in scientology from ’78 – ’94. During that time nobody could ever have called me a kool-aid drinker. My overriding stable datum in scientology was “what’s true for you…”. I openly disagreed with Keeping Scientology Working. The notion that we have this one chance to save ourselves or be lost forever is laughable. Given the almost infinity of space and time, it’s absurd to think it’s happening here and now. I was OK with it if it created urgency. I was never invalidated for communicating this to supervisors. When I read Dianetics, for the first time, on the the solo auditors course, I told the sup that this couldn’t possibly be true because there are no clears as described in the book. He just acked me and I went on. I’m not writing this to pat myself on the back. I just want to establish here that I’m not a kool-aid drinker.
One of the problems I had with the documentary was that it portrayed the benefits in scientology to be a promise that would be gained on the next level until you’re finally betrayed in the end. The truth for me was that I had remarkable gains all the way and I wouldn’t trade them for anything.
I also want to comment on the subject of scientology ethics. There seems to be a difference from how it was applied in the sea org and the public when I was on lines. They repeatedly commented in the film that according to scientology ethics whatever happens to you is your own fault. For the first 15 years I was on lines I had it interpreted that it wasn’t what happened to you but rather it was the misemotion you are sitting in that is caused by your out-ethics. It’s incredibly liberating to realize that your misemotion can be caused by your own out-ethics. I can see that it could be a trap to think that whatever happens to you is your own fault. Until my last year on lines I dealt with a lot of different ethics officers and I never had a single experience that was negative. Things were always handled with a high level of ARC. I can’t ever recall being told that whatever happened to me was my fault. There may be an LRH reference saying it was my fault, but I’m only going by how things were applied to me.
I think it’s important that everyone sees “Going Clear”, but I also want the full truth to be known. I would still be a happy customer today if I could have I practiced scientology the way I did for the first 15 years.
Paul, (I’m Paul’s wife by the way, we’ve had this discussion several times) I was a Kool-Aid drinker. To me Scientology had become a belief system. I would have sworn it was not, I knew, I’d seen with my own eyes etc.. I was on staff for 12 years (1975-1987) and I “believed” that LRH had it all figured out and as I would progress “up the Bridge” it would all be revealed to me. I “believed” we were saving not just mankind but all life for eternity and that justified everything. I know how people like you were looked upon behind closed doors. If you were not thought of with disdain then it was at least condescension. You were at a lower level on the “know to mystery scale”. It was easy for us to unwittingly be con-artists because we could “grant you beingness” and take you upscale by gradients, read you the “if it’s true for you” act, etc.. Like in Paul Haggis’ case, he was told, when questioning things, that he was an individual Scientologist, just like there were different kinds of Christians. He was “granted beingness” to question but the core of what he questioned was never addressed because of that condescension from the Ethics Officer(s).
I also had tremendous wins in Scientology and apply much of what I learned on a daily basis and I wish I could live in a parallel universe to see how it would have worked out had I not surrendered to the “belief system”. I have no regrets, after all my involvement with Scientology led me to you, our family and my current life, which I all love. But I don’t know that Scientology could exist without the “belief system”.
Paul J. There are “pockets of sanity” existing inside the Co$ historically and all the way to this day…. But, these pockets of sane people are getting smaller and smaller. Some would say non-existent.
Keeping Scientology Working Policy is now 50 years old. (February 7, 1965) and any disagreement with this fundamental policy today will get you declared faster than you can say “really?”.
Well, like Ron said, it’ll be true from here on out.
To see the different take on “ethics” you might want to check out “Closing Minds: How Scientology’s “Ethics Technology” is Used to Control Their Members” by Jefferson Hawkins. I’m not saying you must agree with it, I’m saying that it gives a reading consistent with that in “Going Clear” based on personal experience backed up by well selected sources and that might cast some light on this negative view (in case you were curious – a good thing 🙂 ).
Paul J –
The subject of ethics (real ethics in the classical philosophical sense, and personal ethics) is a deep subject, but not hard to grasp with an understanding of how admin scales work and interrelate. The subject goes down as deep as what one perceives and what one makes of it – that is, perception and consideration are fundamental to ethics. Look at the Condition of Confusion, and perhaps you see that the formula is satisfied by the being with the extension of points to view; he determines for himself where he is. That’s pretty fundamental, but it applies to everyday life, really: those who plan and study end up with better jobs, usually, for example. Those with goodwill usually end up in better company.
The subject of ethics includes the present scene as it exists, and the realities of individuals, and their agreements. Back in the 1950’s, it was a different world. Very different sets of “of course it’s this way” existed. These had to be “played to.” By experiment, one finds that the way to reach someone is to address their reality. That is what Hubbard did, and he did it remarkably well.
Scientology is an “applied religious philosophy,” with the noun there being “philosophy.” Auditing is there to make philosophy possible. Ethics is at the heart of philosophy, but Scientology, correctly done, leaves ethics up to the individual. Agreements are not truth. Some may have coincidences of viewpoint on truth, and say “I agree” but it’s a manner of speaking, often sincere, but not always. This is very old wisdom dating back to Buddha. But agreements are very much a part of the fabric of our lives. It becomes a puzzle to work out, really, and that is very much what auditing is about – flying rudiments, for example, looking for any or some of CDEINR (curious about, desired, enforced, inhibited, no, refused) breaks in realities.
I hope this doesn’t require too much reading between the lines. It all gets as involved as our everyday realities are, and that is one good reason why TRs are important for auditing. What a PC may describe is not necessarily what one would call “truth” but that is the PC’s reality at that moment.
Paul J –
” It’s incredibly liberating to realize that your misemotion can be caused by your own out-ethics.” Forgot to comment on that. Ethics and admin scales are pervasive, and what you said there is very true. Some days I feel out-of-sorts, do a workout, even a brief one, even a walk, and I feel much better – the out-ethics of lack of physical exercise creates a kind of ‘body-misemotion’. Which in turn can affect the being at effect of the body. Or just ask anyone with a hangover. I think this is what LRH meant when he urged people to be “at cause.”
That’s why the “Punching Pontiff” is beating the crap out of his staff today !!!!
Somebody pissed on Pee Wee’s cheerios. Again!
Thank you for your wonderful story.
One thing I am interested in was how you were doing financial during your time as Scientologist??
I feel that you may have benefited from friendlier services because of your financial status.
Taking a guided tour inward with a safe person* can be very up lifting spiritually.
I personally miss the community aspects of going to course and church. I actually consider attending some events put on by a local christian church. It would be interesting to see how heavy the reg’ing is there. LOL
*A safe person being someone who doesn’t care what answers you find only that you find them. They don’t judge or intend to use them against you, etc.
My dad also benefited from not being forced to believe. He never actually completed OT3 incident 2 though he did go higher on the bridge. His auditor asked if he wanted to do it and he declined. I’ll have to get him to write down his full experience it’s pretty amazing. You would be surprised that stuff they pulled even in the 70s. For Exampe, I believe it was David Mayo who refunded a few intensives when my father complained about the quality of the auditing he had received at Flag. 2 decades later my Mother, would never receive a replacement for a faulty remote tone arm under “warranty”.
Paul J: “The truth for me was that I had remarkable gains all the way and I wouldn’t trade them for anything.” Ditto. I’ve stated this on the Bunker and here, as well. It really WAS different in the earlier years, especially for those of us not in the SO. My Lady, and best friend for 38 years, was in the SO. Marvelously talented and wise human being. And you may be sure I’d not give up either the friendship or the romance for anything I can think of in this world.
Paul J thanks for your comments. I agree with much you stated and I would also say again that there is much to be gained by observing what works in Scientology. Truth is truth and it’s not going away. Historically it can be observed that most splinter groups away from Dianetics and Scientology sought in some way to carry forward some aspects of Scientology that it’s proprietor deemed most useful. Notice that EST or Avatar or anybody else wasn’t trying to perfect the worst aspects of Scientology like overboarding, chain lockers, chain smoking RPF, or disconnection. This is why I regard the actual time line of the organization fascinating. While Hubbard was tweaking things along the way he was also reacting to situations that were somewhat caused by his mistakes or misestimations of effort. I think it’s heartening that people are willing to pick up what has proven to work under practice and discard the rest. I disagree with Hubbard on one thing, a group CAN evolve a workable technology. Hubbard railed against people doing what he actually had done himself, and that is “squirreling” or synthesizing from the previous work of others and recombining the data into a new arrangement that would yield better results. (Or make money from) Fortunately I have gotten to a place where I can appreciate Hubbards accomplishments without being locked into a mental straighjacket whereby I must condemn everything he wrote based on his errors. I wish to thank Mike Rinder for what he is doing in present time to help correct the Scientology organization. I don’t see him attacking the subject or the philosophy at all. I hope Scientologist recognize that what he is doing is helping to shine a light on the very worst aspects and behavior of the organization that is doing to most harm to the very best that Scientology has to actually offer people. The fact that he is accomplishing this, while making it clear that he himself has no desire or aspirations to continue as a Scientologist is actually quite laudable. After all, he could have just simply walked away. But he didn’t and he continues to get on planes and make time in his life away from his family and his livelihood to shine the light every brighter on the abuses as being perpetuated by Miscavige. I don’t see Mike “making up the damage”. He walked away and has spoken clearly from his own conscience on the matter. The fact that he is doing so while having the distinction of being the former spokesperson and officer in OSA, and also subjecting himself and his family to the travails that only an outspoken critic of Miscavige can appreciate, sweeps away and negates his past actions. It’s who we are NOW and what we do NOW that counts.
+1
“…a spiritual beheading”
Well said Emilio. It does kill one’s soul and the road back can be very long and disturbing.
To Mike and all your posters, no matter their opinions, and also to Tony Ortega’s blog and all his posters – all have been so very important in my life and I’m pretty much a new comer, only coming into the knowledge of the evil best that $cientology truly is, in last 4 or 5 months (never-in).
Through this experience, my eyes have been opened to many things, in many ways, and not just about $cientology, but to all sorts of other things. My soul needed this experience in order for me to grow and to understand love to an even more greater depth, than I already thought I had understood it. It’s hard to put into words, but I have a feeling most reading my post will know what I mean.
I woke up with my heart so very heavy, it still is, and my thoughts crashing into each other about important unanswered questions that lay still, deep inside of me in terms of what I should do or could do to…ah, so hard to think of the words to describe it… what I want to do, to show people how easily love can be corrupted, and to try to figure out together with others with the same concerns, what can we do? That’s the best way I can think of. I’m not good at describing deep feelings and thoughts.
These blogs have been so emotional for me throughout this amazing chapter of the last days of $cientology, as it exists, in it’s current form, and thank DOG for that. I have been on the same emotional roller coaster ride as many other people that have been posting in these blogs, and it has been exhausting, and that’s for damn sure.
I don’t know how much longer I can keep on going until I’m going to need a complete recess for at least a few days, but I’m going to keep on going until I reach that point. So now I’m going to head over to Tony Orgeta’s blog, and whatever it is he has going on today, that Mike Rinder was speaking of in his blog entry this morning, I know for sure, already, without a doubt, it is going to be emotionally overwhelming, what else is new? lol Whew, dog, gimme strength!
In Dog – You expressed yourself just fine and I feel much as you do.
I’m also a never-in and have had an evolution of thought and empathy that I’m extremely grateful for. I think a lot of us have.
To all of you who here who found your way out and have shared your comments and stories – thank you.
You have shown real courage and in many ways reminded me about what is best in human beings.
In Dog and Katherine like both of you I’m a “never-in” too. If Mike R and Tony O are not aware please be advised your contributions to “informing” the “never-ins” of the horrors of Scientology extends FAR beyond understanding the horrors of Scientology. Scientology has specific doctrines but so do other religious cults. Both websites are educational tools and all those tools are transferable to understanding other religious cults. In many instances all we have to do is substitute Scientology “doctrine” to “doctrine” used in spouse’s former religious cult. Both websites and others have been a key component of spouses healing and as a former member of a religious cult and a “never in” we want to thank Tony, Mike and ALL the other contributors and commenter’s.
The same goes for the documentary Going Clear. Years ago spouse exited the religious cult his family established generations ago. Spouse cried though much of Going Clear as it reverberated with the experiences in spouse’s former religious cult (fair game, shunning, and disconnection). Going Clear’s dual power is its ability to inform millions of “never-ins” of the horrors of Scientology while also helping those in other religious cults to understand the horrors of their specific religious cults. The words THANK YOU are not adequate enough to express the power of all your work to free people from Scientology and other religious cults. We are indebted to all of you.
Nice.
Got no where to run to baby…..no where to hide.
Wonderful to see how it has turned out for you Sylvia. Nice work on having the presence to get it recorded. You rock girl!!! Tell Tim he is one smart cookie, he obviously knows integrity when he sees it.
Some of you with closer understanding of how that crazy outfit works, please tell me – how does the guy administering a sec check get to pocket the cost of the sec check?
This snake Patricio got his house painted!
Sylvia and Tom should have sent that sack of crap a 1099 for the value of the paint job. The IRS certainly would not accept that sort of “compensation for services” to an individual as a “donation” to the Cof$.
Just when you think these schmucks can’t get any sleazier, they always rise to the occasion. Ron would be proud.
Some church.
I watched Going Clear last night on HBO…I was so upset about the disconnection process and the degradation of humanity that I cannot stand still. I need tools and ideas to fight this pseudo-nazi structure hungry of money and power. I wish I could confront this abusive 5’1″ Miscavige midget and crush him like a bug… Disconnection methods kill a person’s soul…. a spiritual beheading…. This guy needs to be told that all totalitarian regimes, when they come down.. it doesn’t turn out too pretty for their leader…. WE ARE COMING FOR YOU MISCAVIGE….hide in your golden cage while you can….
Correction, Emilio, David Miscavige is 4’13”.
Yes, Emilio, Disconnection does feel like a spiritual beheading. The son I lost to this practice was my everything. I feel the loss of him every second of every day. I have learned how to create around it and build a life greater than I have been able to create for a very long time.
Mike said here, “I DO want to sincerely thank the church for helping me make many wonderful friends, some of the greatest people I know I have met ….” I was happy to be able to host the Going Clear party last night. At one point, I looked around at a capacity-filled room and saw some of the greatest people I have ever known and I am now proud to call them my friends. While the documentary was sobering for me, the night was celebratory and I have hope that one day my son will be home.
The light is on.
Mary you are too funny!!!LOL
Scientology, the only game where everybody sins.
What a great gal !… She clearly just wanted give her time freely, help kids out and didn’t want any special recognition for her efforts. There are so many organizations who would love to have her on their team working to solving social problems and working for a better community. Clearly the thing to do was crush her desire to help
If the church Dave has created could be represented by a single individual that person would be a severe neurotic flailing his way through each day while on suicide watch all the while.
There should be a fun place that anyone escaping the church can go – to unwind, find a job, find old friends… or does that exist?
Is there a place ex-scn people can unite online – not having to be mysterious or scared to reveal their identity?
Is there a reunion sort of thing anywhere?
I’m so happy the DeWalls got themselves and their kids out. That may blossom to save more families.
What’s going to happen next!?
Hi Sarita, lots of places you can go to. It all depends where however on if you still are into practising scientology one way or another.
Mike Rinder’s site of course is a great place.
May exes (by far most of them not into the tech anymore) land on the Ex Scientologist Message board http://www.forum.exscn.net/forum.php where there also are people like me who were never in.
There are also may Facebook groups which you can access if you have an account there. Just search for “Scientology” on Facebook.
I’m sure there are plenty of other forum sites and the likes where people share wins from using the tech. Just google!
There is such a place. Google Ex Scientologist Message Board. Everyone is welcome and we have stories from hundreds and hundreds of Ex Scientologists as well as some great advice.
I guess the part about sending a copy of a knowledge report to the person the report is on doesn’t apply anymore. And the guy didn’t bother to bring those KR’s to the bloodbath he was administering to Sylvia.
I wonder if Daniel felt good after delivering Sylvia her Scn. death knell? I wonder if he enjoyed his rice and beans for lunch after robotically destroying a person’s life for no good reason? I would cherish the chance to get the little prick on a meter….I bet even those who don’t agree with Scn and the use of the meter would have fun watching me stick his needle so tight a hammer wouldn’t be able to move it.
Isn’t it interesting to see the mechanics of an SP (or a dramatizing SP) declare a person SP who isn’t even close to such a state. Well done Tim for seeing and separating out what is more important in life and livingness.
And for you Daniel……good luck dude….you’re gonna need it.
The real job on down the road will be in dealing with these ‘Lord of the Flies’ kids after Dave has left the building. I am concerned that there are some real ‘wards of the state’ here with few options on rehabilitation.
Unfortunately, two of my kids are among them. I shudder daily to think about what I have done to allow my daughter Haley to join the cult. She has been in the CMO – IXU for many years now …………….. as Dir I&R. Does it get any worse than that? Regardless, I’ll do what I can to help fix things….. except for Dave of course.
Yo Dave,
You are dead meat dude. Your empire will crumble and I’m all in on helping with that. You see Dave, folks like me have nothing left to lose. That translates into doing whatever it takes to see your sorry ass twist in the wind. We are coming for ya and today is the equivalent of May 10th, 1950 only this is the end of the cult, not the beginning …………Dave.
Newcomer, am I right in assuming you don’t have a soft spot for Dave in your heart? 😉
Newcomer, “‘Lord of the Flies’ kids ” is an accurate description. Handling these will be a problem we should start preparing for.
May 9th, Coop. Let’s get our National Holidays correct.
Love your kick ass attitude. If you need a partner in crime to help “blow up Central Headquarters” (OSA: That’s a joke that you have to have a sense of humor to appreciate.), then let me know.
You nailed it MM! Just the sight of Him brings a smile to my face. ):
Tom’s real mission impossible is to disconnect from Miscleaver.
Great book and documentary. Loved it and so did my family. Hope my sister gets out now. But maybe she has been in too long.
Nobody has been in too long…. it took me 40 years but I am out and very happy.
We have been trying for years.
That’s true. As long as there’s life in our bodies, it’s never too late.
Everyone has their bridge too far; it’s different for everyone and some take loner than others but we all have that bridge too far. Be patient Dan, your sister need her brother when she crosses that bridge.
Dan, hang in there for your sister. She will need you when she crawls out.
My brother was in a horrible situation not related to scn. We used to be best friends. I haven’t had a real conversation with him in a few years. He needed me Friday. I took a deep breath and dove in to help him. We shared a long hard hug and a lot of tears.
Family love transcends the years. We have to keep saying that here on this blog so those who are wondering if there is anyone out there who cares understands how much we truly miss them and how thrilled we will be to see them.
I couldn’t listen. I have to admit. Read enough to know. The act of sitting in front of an MAA while they read my “crimes and high crimes” and dictate my punishment… oh gawd! I could cry.
Instead, I will rejoice that I am out. That so many good people, like Sylvia are out and speaking out.
Sylvia! You’re the bomb! Love the way you taped this cringe-worthy conversation. Congratulations on saving your family. Thank you for loudly speaking out!
Sylvia and Tim,I would like to congratulate you for confronting the situation that this vile cherch put you through and handling it in a way that makes me proud of you both. You did the right thing and will only flourish and prosper more than you ever had while being connected to this evil organization.
Obtaining actual proof that disconnection is occurring despite the fact that it has been denied by the liars that represent Scientology is priceless! David Miscavige, Tommy Davis, the “square inch ladies”, and all of the representatives of the cherch are proven liars.
I only wish that you had moved to Texas instead of Arizona as we need people like you folks here in our great state.
You’ve got money Dave. Better invest in a titanium umbrella. The hailstorm is just starting.
Congrats to Syliva and Tim. You chose love over the David Miscavige Prison Program. Enjoy your freedom.
Newsflash NOLAGirl,
It isn’t hail. Hail is white and the stuff coming down on His pea brain and body is BROWN! More Daveshit!
BTW, I wonder how His week is shaping up?
Not good Newcomer, not good at all. Time for an extended vacation in a galaxy far, far away.
Check on our shares in Macallen Scotch, Coop. Their value is sure to be going up this week. 🙂
Dang, now why didn’t I think of that? That’s why you get the big bucks NOLAGirl!
You know, Mike, in the business world or in government, if a company or an agency is doing badly,
is having major setbacks and losses, and if their repute is trending markedly downward, then the head of that
company or agency is sacked and replaced.
This is based on a very simple concept of responsibility: The leader of an organization is ultimately
responsible for the fate of that organization.
The Alex Gibney documentary is a disaster for Scientology. This disaster happened on David Miscavige’s watch. It is David Miscavige’s responsibility that this happened.
This disaster did not happen because of a few “defrocked apostates” or out-ethics members of the media. It
happened because of David Miscavige. Therefore David Miscavige should be immediately removed as the head of the Church of Scientology and replaced.
Maybe this very simple logic can be used when talking to people who are still in the Church.
Yea, Morris, sounds good, maybe they will actually listen to that logic. I know I tried the logic of anyone that beats its execs or extorts from its member should be removed at a minimum and jailed at a maximum. Somehow, even with those that KNOW that Dave is abusive, that didn’t resonate.
I’ll try what you said. 😉
Thanks Mary. I appreciate your comment. It’s nice to hear from you! 🙂
You too, Morris, I hope and yours are well.
Will do and yes. me and many others watched HBO Going Clear. It will have 47X ripples.
Thank you very much for what you have done.
You have my full ARC. The truth really is “Scientology was worse than I thought and worse than I ever even imagined such an activity could be”. It is a relief to know other beings in the universe share this reality with me. Thank you Mike, Sarah and all those who have left, spoken out and like me been understood for a change. The Church is Scientology is worse than most human imaginations can conceive of at the moment, but there none the less! 🙂
Over 2,500 ex-COS members have spoken out: http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Former_Church_of_Scientology_members_who_have_spoken_out
I wonder if we have achieved the 10,000 on or through ‘Going Clear, $cientology and The Prison of Belief’? It may have been a slam dunk on the initial showing.
Yo Clive,
How you doing on your target? Don’t forget to take me off your list. I’m not clear, I’m not OT and I am a failed $cientologist but I am truly happy for the way things have worked out!
No one is Coop, but I’d say you are closer to OT than those that are in the church of scientology.
I call it Operating Turd …… for those still in!
Shorter link to TrevAnon’s list: http://bit.ly/XScisSpeak
A warning about link shorteners like this one: clicking on them logs your IP address, which the link creator can look review. Don’t click on shortened links unless you trust the person who shared it… Including trusting their judgment in passing along shortened links from others.
I created this link. Mike knows my real name.