It’s Saturday, so our old friend Terra Cognita has something for us.
I will likely not be doing a post tomorrow — attending the TV Critics Awards tonight. The Aftermath is nominated for an award. Fingers crossed.
Scientology End Phenomena
At the end of a process in Scientology, it isn’t enough for a PC (Pre-Clear; basically anyone receiving auditing) to say “Thanks, I feel a little better,” and walk away. Likewise, “I feel like I’m done,” or “You know…I think I’ve gone as far I can go with this,” doesn’t signal the end of a session. “I’m already in PT (present time),” or “Nah, I really don’t believe in past lives,” will not be accepted as an “end phenomenon”—EP for short—in the Church of Scientology.
Unlike other therapies, L. Ron Hubbard thought it necessary to append specific EPs to every auditing process, rundown, course, or level of his Bridge to Total Freedom. Rarely, have other practices in the field of mental health made such conceits. Nor guaranteed unqualified cures or promised patients they wouldn’t relapse. LRH never had such reservations.
Why couldn’t he have left well enough alone? Why did he feel he had to make such fantastic claims? Why did he have to append specific EPs to the end of everything? Did he really believe his processes produced these phenomenal “gains” on everyone, uniformly, without exception? Was the man so sure of his genius that he couldn’t conceive his processes wouldn’t work unvaryingly, one hundred percent of the time? Or did he devise these EPs as simply another carrot to lure people up the Bridge?
Ya Just Gotta Have Faith
If people are to believe in LRH’s EPs, they must presuppose:
L. Ron Hubbard was a genius and everything he wrote is the truth. And workable.
The Bridge is real and achievable.
The e-meter actually works as he said it did.
There is a reactive mind as described in Dianetics.
Man is a spiritual being who has lived for quadrillions of years—millions of them on planet Earth.
Every last second and detail of these years have been recorded unerringly in people’s minds—all of which can be recalled.
Millions of years ago, people were flown here in DC8-looking space ships, dropped in volcanoes, implanted with memory-blocking commands, and covered in spiritual beings who apparently couldn’t scrounge-up human bodies of their own.
The only reason one wouldn’t achieve an EP is due to all his overts and withholds.
All EPs are predicated that the above is true. (I’m sure I missed a few.)
You Can Really Do That Now?
Many—if not all—Scientologists attest to EPs that they haven’t achieved. The Grade 0, EP is a classic example. Few who’ve completed this level have “the ability to communicate freely with anyone on any subject.” The overwhelming majority would rather jump off a high bridge than have to talk with any of the people who comment on this site.
Many Scientologists perform mental gymnastics in order to rationalize they’ve actually achieved a particular EP. For instance, the EP of Method One Word Clearing is the complete recovery of one’s education. Considering we’ve lived for quadrillions of years (according to LRH), think of the incredible devices, contraptions, and gadgets we must have been exposed to—or invented. Like warp-drive engines!
As someone who “completed” Method One, I can’t remember half of what I learned in this lifetime’s high school chemistry. But did I attest to this process? You bet!
Like Forever?
There may not be a Grade Chart EP that has ever been permanently achieved. To a point where a PC hasn’t backslid or lost his ability at some point. Often, EPs disappear after only a few days of living in the real world.
The EP of Grade 4 is, “Moving out of fixed conditions into ability to do new things.” All the Scientologists in my town completed this level thirty or forty years ago, and yet, their local org has been insolvent and “fixed” in failure for over three decades.
Remedial Scientology 101 or If an EP isn’t Achievable…We’ll Just Change It
Over the years, EPs have changed. Or been dumbed-down. The 1970’s Grade Chart not only included the “abilities gained” for each of three flows, it listed “inabilities lost.”
(Flow 1 is “something happening to self;” flow 2 is “doing something to another;” and flow 3 is “others doing things to others.” Typically in auditing, all these flows are addressed for every question or incident taken up.)
Per the current Grade Chart, the EP for Grade 1 is simply, “Ability to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish.”
In 1970 these were the EPs:
Abilities gained: F1: Ability to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish.
F2: Feels free about any problems others have with him and can recognize source of them.
F3: Free about others’ problems with or about others and can recognize source of them.
Inabilities lost: F1: Has no problems
F2: No longer worried about the problems he has been to others.
F3: Loss of inability to have others having problems with others.
“No problems?” Apparently, David Miscavige hasn’t completed his Grade 1. Nor has anyone else in the organization. Or…they thought they had and… Obviously, the EP had to be changed.
The current EP for Grade 0 is, “Ability to communicate freely with anyone on any subject.” Here’s how it looked in 1970:
Abilities gained: F1: Ability to communicate freely with anyone on any subject.
F2: Willing for others to communicate to him freely on any subject.
F3: Will permit others to communicate about anything to others.
Inabilities lost: F1: Freedom from, or no longer bothered by communication difficulties. No longer withdrawn and reticent.
F2: Lost any resistance to others communicating to him on unpleasant and unwanted subjects.
F3: Loss of reaction to others communicating to others.
Oops. I guess DM flubbed Grade 0, as well. As for other Scientologists, I’ve yet to meet one who’d ever demonstrated he’d fully achieved this EP. If there’s one thing Scientologist’s are hung up on, it’s communicating freely—much less on “unpleasant and unwanted subjects.”
FN, Cog, VGI’s: The Holy Trinity
Most all auditing sessions in Scientology must end with an FN, cog, and VGIs. FN is short for Floating Needle: an e-meter phenomenon said to indicate everything is good. Cog is short for cognition: a realization, an awareness, an insight, an “Ah-Ha” moment. VGIs is short for Very Good Indicators: PC smiling, happy, positive, having wins, in a good humor.
Major auditing completions require specific attestations, as well. Course completions entail similar testimonies.
At the least, EPs are another layer of control in Scientology. Unless a PC achieves the specific EP for the level he’s on, he did something wrong. And must be corrected at his expense at a qualified Scientology organization. Because the Case Supervisor knows exactly what’s wrong. At every step of the way, he’s controlled and molded, and pushed and shoved, until he “cogs.” Until he finally rationalizes he’s achieved his EP.
As an added step to this whole process, LRH created an Examiner where Scientologists are required to prove they actually attained what they said they did.
After every course completion they must answer in the affirmative to the question, “Would you want someone to achieve the knowledge you now have?” After every auditing level completion, the question is, “Would you want someone else to have similar gains to yours?” (I’ve never heard of anyone ever answering “no” to these questions.)
And of course, their needle must float while holding the cans. If it doesn’t, they’re “Red Tagged,” indicating something is wrong and must be corrected within twenty-four hours. Nine times out of ten, “something wrong,” means the PC is withholding something. It’s never the auditor’s fault. It’s never the tech. Inevitably, the PC didn’t tell all.
But Wait! There’s More!
All students and PCs must write “success stories” before they’re allowed to finish. They must gush over how great everything was. If they don’t, something was “missed.” They did something wrong. They falsely attested. Because as every red blooded Scientologist has been taught, the tech works one hundred percent of the time with perfect accuracy.
Often times, students and PCs feel ambivalent about writing success stories but know if they don’t, they’ll never make it home that evening. In the end, they thank Ron and David and their auditor and say they feel better. The stress—and cost—of being routed to Qual and/or Ethics is not worth the time and energy of fighting the system.
Last Words
LRH promised the world. Rarely did he deliver.
Still not Declared,
Terra Cognita
The true EP of Scientology is an SP, clearly!
” If it doesn’t, they’re “Red Tagged,” indicating something is wrong and must be corrected within twenty-four hours. Nine times out of ten, “something wrong,” means the PC is withholding something. It’s never the auditor’s fault. It’s never the tech. Inevitably, the PC didn’t tell all.”
What you say is in direct opposition with the CS series or any other bulletin. Actually it is always the auditor responsibility, never the PC’s fault.
Withold is not the only by passed charge a PC can have, there are 100 more possibilities.
Pc’s fault is Miscavige universe, means full antiscientology.
The worse ennemy of scientology is Miscavige and his completely altered tech.
I respect those who think that scientology is a complete shit but please to prove your point don’t quote idea and action which are NOT scientology.
That’s right, FG. I may be dead but I still remember what it is like to be alive.
FG: You’re half right. Per policy, it is the responsibility of the auditor to ensure everything goes right in session.
However, you’re assuming the tech works 100% percent of the time and that the auditor, D of P, and C/S are all capable of following policy.
Despite what policy states, there is tacit agreement among Scientology staff that, except for egregious errors by the auditor, the PC is at fault most of the time.
Furthermore, it is the PC that has to pay for all mistakes.
Congratulations to Mike and Leah!
As a never-in, it seems to me that all the seeming contradictions disappear once you assume that L Ron Hubbard devised all this as a way of controlling people. Now, for controlling people, all of this works beautifully. As a way of allowing those people to achieve something that they want, weeelllllllllllllll…
It could also be that he actually believed he had discovered the solution to war, criminals and insanity and he might as well get rich while doing it. There are plenty of other philosophies, religions and cults doing the same thing. Scientology currently gets the most publicity.
“It could also be that he actually believed he had discovered the solution to war, criminals and insanity and he might as well get rich while doing it. There are plenty of other philosophies, religions and cults doing the same thing. Scientology currently gets the most publicity.”
Well Richard, most lunatics think that they are right about their insanity; that’s why it is called, “Delusion”, 🙂 But in the case of LRH, I am afraid he was just a con man. Please read his handwritten letter to Hellen O’Brien. That’s evidence enough.
Elron believed that disembodied beings affected himself and everyone else and addressed them to the very end of his life. Delusion and belief might be close cousins for some people. I left scn before doing the OT levels so I never pursued that cosmology.
A more rational explanation is that I’m a product of many people in the sense that I’ve adopted many of my beliefs or personality traits from parents, coaches, teachers, friends, people I admire, identification with characters from books, television and so on and so on.
If I had continued in scn would I have been softened up or indoctrinated enough to give credence to Elron’s BT theory? You mentioned this factor on an earlier post, Thetaclear, and it was well taken by me 🙂 I’d like to say no but the answer might very well have been yes – laughter.
A worthwhile conversation on this thread continues below, so no need to repeat it here Thetaclear. Yours and other viewpoints are clearly expressed below 🙂
“Elron believed that disembodied beings affected himself and everyone else and addressed them to the very end of his life. Delusion and belief might be close cousins for some people. I left scn before doing the OT levels so I never pursued that cosmology.”
Yes, they might indeed, be “close cousins”, 🙂 Personally, I studied every written OT level in great detail (including the “old” ones), but at the end decided not to do them, after a few years of research into the lives of those who had done it. I didn’t like what I found out, you know. I already knew about them, particularly about OT3 – since loooong before I had left the CofS. As always, I was a rebel who never followed orders (sort of “Captain Kirk”, you know), and thus, my curiosity was bigger than the “recommendation” not to look at anything about Scn in the web. Besides, I was totally moneyless and I thought that the chances of me doing the “upper” levels this lifetime was very slim. So I decided to avail myself of the “secrets” before dropping this body, haha. The 1991-92 “Time Magazine” article was my starting point. That HUGE “Missed Withhold” – luckily enough for my sanity, 🙂 – kept me from doing further metered auditing for the next 10 years or so. There were a few instances of me having to “pick up the cans” again briefly, but I was extremely good at “influencing” the e-meter, haha.
“A more rational explanation is that I’m a product of many people in the sense that I’ve adopted many of my beliefs or personality traits from parents, coaches, teachers, friends, people I admire, identification with characters from books, television and so on and so on.”
Same like me, Richard. I am the product of MANY individuals.
“If I had continued in scn would I have been softened up or indoctrinated enough to give credence to Elron’s BT theory? You mentioned this factor on an earlier post, Thetaclear, and it was well taken by me. I’d like to say no but the answer might very well have been yes – laughter.”
Welcome to the club, my friend! 🙂
“A worthwhile conversation on this thread continues below, so no need to repeat it here Thetaclear. Yours and other viewpoints are clearly expressed below.”
Great! We’ll keep in touch. 🙂
Hi Thetaclear – There are some similarities in our stories. I might have been considered a non conformist or rebel “back then.” I hitchhiked back and forth across the U.S. twice in the early 1970s which was possible back then. People were more trusting and if you had long hair the hippies would usually stop and give you a lift.
I had no problems with the subject of scn when I blew around 1982. I considered my role as an auditor to be similar and even superior to that of a certified psychologist.
I had “gone Dianetic Clear” and was in the “non interference zone” (no further auditing – go directly to the OT levels) when the monthly price increases resumed. I decided that the CoS was more interested in enriching itself than causing any planetary influence.
HOWEVER (lol), if I had been wealthy I might have just paid for the rest of The Bridge and become acquainted with my BTs – laughter
P.S. I’m also an Aries, April 12, 1946, 71 years young. I take no medicines and have no disabilities. Maybe going Clear had an effect? (That’s just joking but I’ll keep it in the belief bin as long as it keeps working – lol)
My grandmother on my father’s side was a devout Methodist and also followed astrology and gave readings. Her viewpoint was that God created the Heavens so we could admire and use them.
“Hi Thetaclear – There are some similarities in our stories. I might have been considered a non conformist or rebel ‘back then’.I hitchhiked back and forth across the U.S. twice in the early 1970s which was possible back then. People were more trusting and if you had long hair the hippies would usually stop and give you a lift.”
Haha, yeah, I can imagine how the hair might have helped. And if your hair was long, back then in the ‘70’, then you definitely was a non conformist, 🙂
“I had no problems with the subject of scn when I blew around 1982. I considered my role as an auditor to be similar and even superior to that of a certified psychologist.”
Gee, another self-righteous Scientologist like me, haha. I even thought that I was better than LRH; can you imagine my “delusion”? 😉
“I had ‘gone Dianetic Clear’ and was in the ‘non interference zone’ (no further auditing – go directly to the OT levels) when the monthly price increases resumed. I decided that the CoS was more interested in enriching itself than causing any planetary influence.”
Luckily, you that walked out soon enough!!
“HOWEVER (lol), if I had been wealthy I might have just paid for the rest of The Bridge and become acquainted with my BTs – laughter”
Uhmmm, something tells me that you would have walked out the door by the beginning of OT3, 🙂
“P.S. I’m also an Aries, April 12, 1946, 71 years young.”
Haha, I like that, “years young”. I am going to start using it myself now that I am approaching my 50th birthday, 🙂
In astrology we have the “Sun sign”, which means the area of the zodiac that the Sun was transiting over when one was born; the “Moon sign” which refers to the same, but with the Moon; and the “Ascendant” (or “Rising sign”), which means the zodiac sign that was “rising” in the eastern horizon when one was born. Those 3 are equally important. When a person says, “I am an Aries”, he is referring to the “Sun sign”. I am a “Virgo” Sun with a “Pisces” moon, and with an “Aries” Ascendant. The Ascendant is the first thing that others notice about you when they still don’t know you intimately. Thus my “Aries” side is what is mostly shown here at this blog. Personally, I am a little bit less “angered”, haha.
“I take no medicines and have no disabilities. Maybe going Clear had an effect? (That’s just joking but I’ll keep it in the belief bin as long as it keeps working – lol)”
No, really; I do think that having received NED might have something to do with it. I have always thought that NED is workable enough.
“My grandmother on my father’s side was a devout Methodist and also followed astrology and gave readings. Her viewpoint was that God created the Heavens so we could admire and use them.”
That’s a very interesting thought, the one your grandma held! As unscientific as it might look – which it DOES!! – astrology has explained soooooooo many things about myself. So, even though that I feel silly talking about it, and that I don’t necessarily buy into its explanation regarding planetary influences, I find it workable enough for me. But it is in the realm of “faith” or “mysticism” for me, and not under the heading of “Fact”. Am I making any sense? Haha
Thetaclear – This conversation could continue, which I would like, but since this is a daily blog I’ll make this my last comment.
Grandma also told me that angels helped her and they would help me too if I asked them. She also sold some type of seaweed supplement as an aid to body and mind. She was a regular New Age person way back in the 1950s!
Maybe grandma left a genetic trace in me which caused me to be a sure candidate for scn – laughter
Yes, you’re making sense. Maybe we all have some articles of faith or mysticism. I have mine and I feel no need to question them or toss them out.
“Thetaclear – This conversation could continue, which I would like, but since this is a daily blog I’ll make this my last comment.”
Agreed! We are making Mike to work more here with you and me, 🙂
“Grandma also told me that angels helped her and they would help me too if I asked them. She also sold some type of seaweed supplement as an aid to body and mind. She was a regular New Age person way back in the 1950s!”
Your grandma seems to have been a very unique and interesting individual!!
“Maybe grandma left a genetic trace in me which caused me to be a sure candidate for scn – laughter”
I think she did! 🙂
“Yes, you’re making sense. Maybe we all have some articles of faith or mysticism. I have mine and I feel no need to question them or toss them out.”
Yeah, you are right about that; thanks!
It looks like the television critics who sit in judgment of the entertainment that many of us watch on our multiple screens knew what they were doing. Reality television has produced its share of bastard children since it became a “thing” many years ago, but like most brilliant, truly unique ideas, it matured and grew into a genre that declared boldly and proudly that entertainment, whether on screens small or large, could be so much more than the formulaic molasses we’d been served for decades. (Of course, there were also those who demonstrated that it could be so much less, as well,)
It seemed that television “grew up” right before our jaundiced but ultimately delighted eyes, and it is not surprising that within a very short time after the birth of this brash youngster that became the legitimate and respected genre that viewers and critics alike have come to honor and appreciate,* creativity in the television arts and sciences in general matured and offered us programming that transcended all that had come before.
This emancipation of hitherto restrained creative momentum was as much sparked by the “glasnost and perestroika” taking place in the motion picture industry, which led to the eventual dismantling of the ideological walls that had separated those working in motion pictures from their counterparts in the television industry. The cross-pollination of creativity that ensued saw many well-known producers, directors, and actors
from the cinema turning their prodigious talents to creating for the “small” screen, and audiences everywhere were the delighted beneficiaries, treated to productions that often eclipsed the great works their creators had produced for the cinema. Those who had been working in television all along did not necessarily gravitate to cinema, but began to explore the new possibilities that had so dramatically and profoundly opened up for them. The old canard of “small” and “large” screens dissolved like so many adolescent pissing contests.
I have gone to some length in describing how an industry matured and overcame a decades-long ideological straitjacket to emerge stronger and more vital as a result. Contrast this with the almost contemporaneous path that Scientology has taken. It seems to me that it has stagnated rather than matured, and instead of bringing people together it is heartlessly tearing them apart. Where the entertainment industry produces so much goodwill and happiness on something like a one-to-many ratio, Scientology does almost the opposite, where one person’s “win” often leads to loss for so many others. It is almost a sick caricature of a reasoned and rational approach to organizational behavior, replete with its own, internally evolved caricature of awards that it doles out not for anything like a humanistic achievement but for the most crass of reasons: who donates the most cash to the enterprise. And the judge here is no panel of 220 educated journalists drawn from the length and breadth of North America, but one diminutive, rather elusive if not reclusive man-child known as COB who, like some hideously stunted adolescent narcissist begrudgingly thanks those whom he despises for not giving him enough, for there can never be enough.
*As demonstrated Saturday night when our host and Leah Remini received a TCA award for their contribution to an “Outstanding achievement in reality programming”.
Sorry to reply to my own post, but the preceding paragraphs were meant to b a preamble to thanking Mike and Leah, So thank you, Mr Rinder and Ms Remini, for opening our eyes to this sickness among us. Whether in, out, or never in, your program, while disturbing and often heart-breaking, also offers so much hope – and that hope is essentially communicated by the humanity and openness you both have shown throughout this harrowing yet absorbing program. Kudos to all involved in the making of Aftermath. With thanks.
Well said.
Here here!
Michieux, to say *well said!* to this post seems horribly inadequate. I wish I could give you an award for it!
Yes, television has matured, so much so that I never see a movie in a theatre. Since the Dollar Movie Theater closed, new shows are too expensive, and I got tired of smuggling my concessions in via my buffet bag. Im older, more patient, and i can wait. We now pay for “home theater” 24/7. Its cheaper for the entire family.
Yes, I believe Scientology has spiritually stagnated. I’m never in, but fair game, squirrel busters, slanderous smear sites. Those are filled actions, and I fail to see a road to freedom in those nanny nanny boo boo responses.
Even Indie Auditors charge ( a lot!) for their services, and I’ve very recently seen some of them attack, and even align with Corporate Scien… It’s my opinion that a true spiritual mentor will not charge you. In my experiences, a church will give you a hymnbook, or bible. Prayer is free. A good friend will listen. For free.
In days of innocence, blind patriotism and in some cases, gullibility, LRon tried to use the famous to attract well meaning good people to flesh out his workforce camp. But those famous people are aging, retiring, or will no longer wave a banner for CoS, instead hiding behind front groups. So, there’s little draw, especially in this electronic age.
McSavage? I can only quote Steve Earle..
“Where you gonna run to
Where you gonna hide
When the people find out that you lied.”
I think Mr. Dave needs to check into Narconon. Sometimes I read these stories about his mindfuck, verbal and physical abuse, and I spiral back to my ACOA mom place.
Wow. This was a well-written and fun read. Nailed an understanding of the “cross-pollination” of the motion picture industry with the television industry.
This video is the most accurate description of Scientology’s “End Phenomena”. But careful; if you are not yet an OT8, Super-Power completion, you might become seriously ill by watching it. Don’t tell me that I didn’t warn you, 😉
https://youtu.be/qfb5FYd83Ao
This looks like a really meaty article from Terra which due to time constraints tonite I’ll be enjoying tomorrow, but I just want to give an echoing shout out to you, Mike, “Fingers crossed”. I so want Aftermath to win but in any event the fact that it was nominated is alone a huge win! Fingers crossed!
I know I’m late to this and it doesn’t have anything to do with the post (which was great), but I just wanted to say congratulations!!! I hope you guys win the Emmy.
Mike, I just wanted to say that I am so proud of you and Leah and all the brave participants of “Aftermath”. I am so happy that your efforts have been acknowledged by the television critics forum and I look forward to the Emmys. There is work still to be done but you are paving the way, breaking down the walls of enforced silence, letting the world know about the crimes committed in the name of a “church”. Bless you, each one who has risked personal harm to bring this truth to the fore. My prayer is that those who are imprisoned will somehow, miraculously be exposed to the truth that is now everywhere for the viewing and that it will truly set them free.
Outstanding Achievement in Reality Programming: “Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath.”
Congrats Leah & Mike….
Better to light a candle then curse the darkness….
Keep lighting those candles to shine the light on the TRUTH as to what’s really going on….
I just had to post this under the article on Yahoo about Mike and Leahs win:
‘Hooray! Reality rears its head and bites scinos in the a**. I read that Elizabeth Moss, a practicing scineo, had to leave the area so as not to hear Leah’s speech. So much for their conquering the psychs, the ‘suppressives’, the earth and the universe. They cannot even confront free speech.’
Was it televised. ? If so. Maybe it will be shown soon….hmmm
“There may not be a Grade Chart EP that has ever been permanently achieved. To a point where a PC hasn’t backslid or lost his ability at some point. Often, EPs disappear after only a few days of living in the real world.”
That’s a VERY accurate description, Terra Cognita. Coincidentally enough, that dilemma was what got me to stay away from orgs even though that I still read and practiced Scn outside of church’s lines, and did so for more than a decade after I left the CofS. I witnessed soooooooo many “Clears” manifesting “out-Grades” phenomena, and in fact, most of the “OTs” as well, that I grew disheartened about doing any further Bridge steps.
I had allegedly been a “past life C.C. Clear”, so I was not C/Sed to do the Scn Grades nor I felt that I needed them at all as I felt perfectly fine as I was. For many years, I attributed to Scn (but as a “past life” experience) my rather unusual difference in terms of abilities and behavior, from most Scientologists I knew. I used to think that “I had gotten Scn directly from LRH, and therefore, I had received ‘Standard’ Scn instead of the ‘quickie’ and ‘watered-down’ version of the ‘modern’ orgs”. And that the difference that I was observing among myself and most Scientologists I knew, was due to “Out-tech”, and not due to any inherent wrongness with the Scn Grades (or other processes) themselves.
Of course, I just was under the charming spell of LRH regarding the “past life Clear” bullshit, and about the alleged “workability” of Scn. As I later found out, the Grades (standardly run) never delivered what they promised to deliver, and the perceived difference in abilities and behavior among most Scientologists I knew and myself, was due to the fact that I was a lot less affected than them by the cultic nature of Scn, and not because “standard” Scn had made me “better” than they in ANY way, as a product of the Bridge.
I remember how my then lovely wife (she is still lovely; she just isn’t my wife anymore), used complain about the SAME EXACT thing. She had always aspired to do the Scn Grades and become “Clear”, but she was dismayed and baffled by the conduct of most Scientologists she knew, as it was a VERY huge and obvious manifestation of EVERY Grade being “out”. Naively, I used to “comfort” her by “Ronbot(ically)” alleging that those manifestations that she was witnessing were due to “Out-tech”, and that the Grade of such individuals had not been actually completed. It all was an “unwitting” and “unaware” error by both the PC and the auditor. My naiveness finally led me to take her out of the lines of the CofS, and to introduce her to the “Indie field” where a scammer Indie auditor basically robbed her of $16,000 USD. Most people involved in this, either directly or indirectly, basically washed their hands of it all. Now I have ANOTHER overt act in my back besides all the ones that I had already accumulated by just the fact of practicing standard Scn.
Scientology’s “EPs” are the “Cheese in the mousetrap” to keep others waiting for the final price (The state of “OT”) that will NEVER come. So even though that most Scientologists DID FELT (as opposed to what delusionals Bob G and Foolproof alleged) that what they got from their Grades and other Scn procedures was QUITE different than what the their listed EPs claimed it would be, they someone kept this to themselves (for OBVIOUS reasons) and thought that their cases were somewhat “different”, but that it all “would sort out sooner or later” as they approached the “upper” level stuff. The “EP” of OT8 is “A realization that LRH fooled us all, and that the ‘OT dream’ was nothing more than his OWN delusions”.
LRH HIMSELF was a failed case if one is to be honest in analyzing his life, particularly his last 10-12 years. Scientology has ALWAYS been about that next “breakthrough” intended to “handle” what the previous tech DIDN’T handle because oddly enough, “Most auditors just couldn’t duplicate LRH”, was his logical fallacious argument/explanation.
Then he blamed it all on “BTs” as to why the original OT levels NEVER delivered what they promised to deliver. “Exteriorization wasn’t possible or stable because we were only exteriorizating BTs and not the actual being”. “We were not behaving as ‘Clears’ and our Grades seemed to be out, as these BTs were causing these behaviors unknown to the individual”. “A DNs ‘Clear’ wasn’t really a Clear because he still had not handled his R6 bank that the Clearing Course allegedly handled”. “A ‘Clear’ manifested odd behaviors and conduct not because he still had a ‘Reactive Mind’, but because he now had ‘evil Intentions’ which gave the ‘appearance’ of being uncleared”. So a “breakthrough” called the “False Purpose Rundown” (FPRD) was geniusly discovered by LRH. And on, and on, and on, excuses, excuses, yawn, yawn, big yawn, Zzzzzzzzz!!!
What LRH had as a “researcher” I have it as a “movie star”, 🙂 LRH was just a failure as a “leader”, as a “researcher”, as a husband, as a father, and generally as a human being. Karma is a bitch, isn’t it, 😉 It ALWAYS catch us sooner or later. There is no escape from it, fortunately so.
Again this is just a hotch-potch of altered or made-up “LRH” quotes and general (and very poor) attempts at defamation. Where do these quotes come from:
1. “Exteriorization wasn’t possible or stable because we were only exteriorizating [sic] BTs and not the actual being”. Never read or seen that.
2. “A DNs ‘Clear’ wasn’t really a Clear because he still had not handled his R6 bank that the Clearing Course allegedly handled”. Never read or seen that.
This is the best generalization though:
“… even though that most Scientologists DID FELT [sic] (as opposed to what delusionals Bob G and Foolproof alleged) that what they got from their Grades and other Scn procedures was QUITE different than what the listed EPs claimed it would be, they someone [sic] kept this to themselves (for OBVIOUS reasons) and thought that their cases were somewhat “different”, but that it all “would sort out sooner or later” as they approached the “upper” level stuff.”
Oh! Really? Who were these “most Scientologists” then? Who are “they”? This is just pure invention and “everybody knows” from ThetaClear’s bank of “facts”. If anybody believes this drivel then they need their head testing.
As for “karma” please refer to the tape “Overt- Motivator Sequence” – it doesn’t exist unless you agree to it. So yet another load of nonsense.
Now, as ThetaClear has a seeming license to invent “facts” and spout what he wants then I will hazard a suggestion (note I use the word “suggestion”), that ThetaClear was probably thrown out of the Orgs he attended for getting on everyone’s nerves and being a complete bother. And because of this rejection and instead of becoming a bit more sociable has been sour ever since. Now, that is pure invention from me – but at least it does have a ring of truth about it eh?
FooledProof, we can cut to the chase in any discussion concerning the efficacy of $cn processing by simply asking: Where are the clears and Oatees who can actually demonstrate the abilities awareness characteristics that they’ve all attested to having achieved?
If there’s not one single solitary $cilon who can objectively demonstrate their supposed ability to be stably exterior and at cause over all 8 dynamics, both objectively and subjectively, then unless we wish to engage in some very convoluted rationalizations in order to try and explain why $cn is still valid despite that lack, every unbiased observer is going to be forced to conclude that $cn DOES NOT WORK as promised.
Of course, everyone in the cience community is perfectly happy to re-evaluate that tentative conclusion…that is, just as soon as you, or some other true believer $cilon, can demonstrate for us any of those super nifty psi abilities that $cn claims everyone can achieve.
However, if you can’t, then it’s just madness (or fraud) to continue to insist that something which very obviously does not work as promised should continue to be believed in and promoted as if it did.
We can continue to parse and deconstruct the elaborate and voluminous con that $cn is and has always been 20 ways to Sunday — as if the entire system was not fatally undermined by the lies, frauds, deceptions and, above all, failure to deliver promised gains — but the reality is: If you’re seeking your spiritual freedom and immortality, then you just can’t get there using Elron’s Holy Tech.
But what I really want to know is, given $cn’s total failure to deliver what it’s promised, how do folks like you continue to act as if it did!!? How DO you do that?
“But what I really want to know is, given $cn’s total failure to deliver what it’s promised, how do folks like you continue to act as if it did!!? How DO you do that?”
Because they are INSANE, Harpoona Frittata! 🙂
Three days later and still nothing but crickets in response to my polite request of FooledProof to address the herd of theta elephants sitting in $cn’s living room.
We could go on for months in debating the minutia of Elron’s cosmology, but if the ultimate purpose of $cn is to free spiritual beings and return to them their long-lost native state super powers, yet there’s not one single person who can demonstrate the Clear and OT 8 EPs that they attested to, then any objective investigator would be forced to conclude that $cn DOES NOT WORK as promised for anyone with respect to the ultimate claims that Elron made for it.
If $cn worked as promised, then the demented midget wouldn’t need to fear-condition his followers in order to keep them in the cult; folks would be bustin’ down the doors in order to get them summa dat. They’re not because, once again, $cn DOES NOT WORK as promised!
The fact that some folks experience brief moments of euphoria and of being “keyed out” on lower level auditing processes is just the ‘cheese’ in the theta mousetrap which makes the long con of $cn so effective.
FooledProof just needs to show us one single individual who can objectively demonstrate any of the truly marvelous superhuman abilities that Elron promised could be attained by all in order to be taken seriously here. But since he’s “pulled an Elron” here in response to having this exact same challenge posed to him here in the past, it’s not at all surprising that he’d do the same thing now.
If Clears and OTs who can actually demonstrate any of these miraculous super powers DO NOT EXIST, then $cn MUST be a criminal fraud operation because folks continue to pay big bucks to achieve their super-powered Eternity, yet die the same kind of mere mortal deaths that the founder did.
When dialog is lost, slander is the tool of the loser.
“When dialog is lost, slander is the tool of the loser.”
Yes indeed, Brain! 🙂
You are of course referring to ThetaClear’s remark about me and BobG I assume?
“You are of course referring to ThetaClear’s remark about me and BobG I assume?”
Actually, I think that he referred to BOTH, you and me equally, 🙂
Yep!
And here I thought that you were a “trained” auditor, Foolproof. “Never seen that; never heard that”? Uhmm, it seems that you are not allowed to see the “confidential” materials of the “Clearing Course”, “R6EW”, and all the “confidential” HCOBs that led to that. But just to amuse myself and to correct a little bit your apparent illiteracy with Scientology, I will quote from an HCOB which every OT2 student must read as part of the checksheet. HCO BULLETIN OF 30 JULY 1980 “THE NATURE OF A BEING”.
This was right after the release of NOTs (2 years after) and it SHOULD be very obvious for a “152 IQ” guy like you, that LRH is referring here to “BTs” when he talks about “composite”. As this HCOB was not meant to be “confidential”, LRH of course, can’t mention “BTs” as such, but it is OBVIOUS he was referring to them. He put it on the OT2 checksheet as a sort of “preparatory” step because, even though that OT2 does not mention anything about BTs directly, the PC will likely stumble upon them, as LRH alleged on his Class 8 lectures, which I ASSUME that you have listened to???
On the mentioned HCOB, LRH is giving an example of how he “exteriorized” a lady who was exhibiting “insanity”, making her temporarily sane by the act of Exteriorization itself. He then comments how it was that she became “insane” again due to allegedly having gone “back into the body”. He then offers the “An individual is a composite” logical fallacy to explain this phenomena :
“If a being were a single unit, separated from all other beings, conditions and current influences, the task of understanding him would be relatively simple and philosophers would have had it all worked out long before Dianetics and Scientology.”
“A single unit being responds to the most elementary and simple rules and laws you will find in Dianetics and Scientology. Affinity, Reality, Communication and Understanding; the time track; mental image pictures; the earlier incident holding the later in place; responses to Matter, Energy, Space, Time, Form as well as force; and the axloms. On this you can rest assured. And one might even wonder why we need all the additional bulletins and cautions and provisions and lectures.”
LRH then gives a few faulty explanations as to the “why” of the “apparent” variable “workability” (relapses, taking too long, etc) of Scn processing :
“The fact of the matter is that when one addresses a person, a human being ‘in the flesh’ one is not addressing a simple being. Possibly an example will illustrate this : “
LRH then gives the example of this “insane” lady he made temporarily “sane” by allegedly exteriorizing her. Btw, in the above quote the word “not” is underlined in the original text, but I can’t post it that way in this blog’s settings. He is, OF COURSE, referring to “BTs”. Remember, this reference is right after NOTs, and a study prerequisite for OT2. LRH then concludes as his “explanation” for the “apparent” (“apparent” just for HIM, of course) relapses in cases and the great amount of time that it takes to handle a case :
“But mainly it tells you that full recoveries seldom happen last and that cases require an awful lot of work and often for a very long time. And like the woman at the Congress, one sometimes gets a sudden near-magical result. The trouble with that one was that she soon went back into her head and became again a composite, even though she now did have a sane plan of action to follow.”
“But don’t become discouraged if it all doesn’t happen fast and if it takes a long time. When you are handling a human being, you are handling a composite.”
“If we were working with single beings, it would be a nothing to do. We are not.”
Not it SHOULD be PLAIN obvious to infer from this reference – though he didn’t say it directly as this is a “non-confidential” issue – that LRH thought that the “Exteriorization problem” (its alleged instability), and the alleged “rare” manifestations of cases in terms of relapses, “taking a long time to clear”, etc; were a DIRECT result of the alleged “composite nature” of the being, meaning BTs.
Now if a “152 IQ” can’t still get this, then perhaps you should SERIOUSLY consider doing the “Primary Rundown” so you can duplicate LRH. 😉
As to the rest of your silly comments about my “undisciplined” character which allegedly caused me a lot of trouble with orgs, YES, you are damn right about that. You see, Foolproof, unlike most Scientologists who were slaves of the system and who thought that LRH was a demigod; I was not and I did not. And I had enough balls and self-respect to not give a rat’s ass about Disconnection threats if I failed to disconnect from such and such person, or if I failed to follow such and such LRH policy or HCOB. That’s the MAIN difference between myself and most Scientologists I knew: I was not anybody’s slave and I had honor and balls.
Now, do me a favor please? Get some cramming done on yourself by Jim Logan. He is REALLY good at it. You are full of misunderstood words on your own field of action. 🙂
Ok you have somewhat clarified what you originally meant . apart from the big generalization thing. How about that one?
“Ok you have somewhat clarified what you originally meant . apart from the big generalization thing. How about that one?”
Well, that’s the way I honestly perceived it from my own experience as a technical staff member for several years. I was honest about it, Foolproof. Perhaps your own experience has been different than mine, and I can accept that. So from your perspective, it could be considered a generalization.
I am aware of auditing having worked for many to varying degrees, but in my own personal experience, I seldom saw any Scientologists whose Grades could be considered as “in”. And the degree of this was such that I honestly decided that something terribly wrong with the Tech was not being objectively looked at. At first, I attributed it to plain “Out Tech”, but then I saw the same exact manifestatios in many who had received their Grades when LRH was still in charge, and with excellent auditors and the best C/Ses. It wasn’t as if they had turned into “bad” individuals nor anything like that. But they were struggling with many things in life that according to their case level, they were NOT supposed to be struggling with. It became obvious to me that – even though that good stable wins might in fact occur under responsible auditing – the results as advertised, are very far from being realistic.
I don’t know about you, Foolproof, but I don’t like to be lied to; and LRH did lied to us. Whether he did it on purpose or not, is beyond the point. His research wasn’t neither scientific – as there are not even records kept of any research having been done – nor honest. You might not see it that way, but many trained auditors do. Privately, many of these highly trained auditors – whose names I can’t give you, of course – have confessed that even though the Tech works to varying degrees, it has never to the degree LRH told us it would. Not nearly as close to that. But they keep on using it for “lack of a better thing”, according to them. But then again, they have never actually tried anything else. However, I have personally studied and applied a few of them, which ae a lot simpler, faster, workable, and a lot cheaper (or even for free) than Scn. So it wouldn’t make any sense for me to be a Scn practitioner, besides the fact that I don’t like to be identified with a subject whose texts contain policies that violate Human Rights. I am simple guy who like simple stuff and a fair/honest game. I am not an “SP” with horns and everything.
That Theta clear was a theta clear statement. Thank you. You said a lot and supported your argument by just expressing ideas. Thank you!!
See Foolproof, it can be done. Now you can share your ideas without denigrating TC as a person. Support your argument with ideas not attack critics.
It’s called communication. Communication with no HE&R. Scientologists and critics can be civil to each other.
Ron taught us to attack critics. Some habits are hard to break.
“That Theta clear was a theta clear statement. Thank you. You said a lot and supported your argument by just expressing ideas. Thank you!!”
Thank you, Brian! 🙂
I know that I can get nasty sometimes (or is it frequently? Haha), but I do care. But as it is usual when we feel that we are failing to help others, we sometimes get impatient and make errors in communication, and errors in strategy.
The way that I portray myself publicly here, and the way that I actually act in person when I am talking or handling anybody, are two very different things. Here, I am an “angered” Aries personality mixed with a critical “Virgo” mind. But in person, I am a Pisces personality mixed with the trait of “service” and “kindness” that Virgos also have, 🙂 Hey, I might even do a free Astrology reading for you, haha.
Take care, Brian; you are part of the really kind/fair ones, 🙂
🙂
You sound a whole lot like I’matroll! Any relation?
That’s very chummy of you! Do you mean the anti-Scientology trolls abounding here or the anti-anti-Scientology trolls here, who are not so abounding? I suppose I fit into the latter category if that answers your rather facetious troll-like questions.
Ha Ha Ha…. Foolproof… you make me laugh!
Deja vu
ThetaClear, hello! I have audited past life scientologists, I was really doubting that it was true, but I had quite often some clue that it is true… But anyway… You are disabused with scientology, you actually just go beserk about it (it looks like).
I know you can tell actual scientology from Miscavige’s bullshit altered tech.
I am not so much proscientology, I actually don’t practice it anymore. I’m in a kind of apathy, very deep. I know from CS 78 that I am under out list or variation of this type of cherge.
You’re so incredibly furious about Hubbard.
Being now a kind of “wog”,I still don’t reject what I learned with Hubbard. And about the EP, if you do any process with good comm cycle, intention to help and auditor’s code in, you always get FN cog VGIs. And tt means PC is happy, not forced to be happy, he is really happy, feel very light, yes… it is.
Love to you my friend.
“ThetaClear, hello! I have audited past life scientologists, I was really doubting that it was true, but I had quite often some clue that it is true… But anyway… You are disabused with scientology, you actually just go berserk about it (it looks like).”
Hi FG. I don’t necessarily doubt the existence of past lives. In fact, I have recently studied in detail something called, “Evolutionary Astrology” which deals with that concept, though not necessarily as a scientific endeavor, but mostly as possible scenarios of past behavioral patterns which we might still dramatizing from a long gone past. It works for me, at least, and some friends find it interesting enough. I make no claims about it, though, only that it has explained for me, my past to my complete satisfaction.
Do I believe that I was a past life “Clear/OT” personally trained by LRH? No, I am afraid that there is a big difference between suspecting what possible issues we are dragging on from past existences (without any actual “recalls” of them), so as to recognize possible patterns of self-sabotage; and to ACTUALLY had lived such and such existence as a “verified” thing. In Evolutionary Astrology, the emphasis is not is the accuracy or lack thereof of the concept of past lives. It is more into the “possibility” realm and a possible explanation of why we are apparently born with certain patterns of self-sabotage. But the stress is not on recalls nor “mental images”, but mostly a sort of “intuitive” approach.
“I know you can tell actual scientology from Miscavige’s bullshit altered tech.”
Of course I do!
“I am not so much pro scientology, I actually don’t practice it anymore. I’m in a kind of apathy, very deep. I know from CS 78 that I am under out list or variation of this type of charge.”
Be careful with analyzing your case, FG; Scientology’s is rigged – either intentionally or not – to cause severe introversion on the individual; a continual “looking into our minds” to see what’s wrong with it. Most of Scn processes are inherently introverting. I know, as I tried hundreds of them from all possible angles besides the “Standard Tech”, “KSW” kind of angle. Result? A VERY severe introversion that almost ended my life. I would have been another “Captain Bill Robertson”, if I wouldn’t have decided to disconnect from Scn as a “psychotherapy”. But when I did disconnected, my life gave an 180 degree turn for the better. It was as if I had “Seen the Light”. The pieces of the puzzle finally fitted perfectly.
“You’re so incredibly furious about Hubbard.”
He have it very well deserved, my friend, but I don’t hate him any more than I don’t hate anybody else in life. What I say and how I say it, is part of the strategy. It isn’t personal, I assure you. With me, it is never personal.
“Being now a kind of ‘wog’,I still don’t reject what I learned with Hubbard.”
Perhaps you should reject a few things, FG, otherwise, new useful data might be difficult to assimilate.
“And about the EP, if you do any process with good comm cycle, intention to help and auditor’s code in, you always get FN cog VGIs.”
I agree, but a general EP like that isn’t the same as the EP of a Grade, you know, about the specific alleged “ability gained”. But you have to consider that if one REALLY listen to someone (what any real good auditor is supposed to do as almost 80-90% of his job), that ,all by itself, and the fact that we got the person to “ITSA” on something whose mind was fixated on, will practically ALWAYS bring about wins. Any good psychologist or psychiatrist can do that as well, and there are quite a few good ones out there. We were just sold on the idea that ALL of them were “bad”; that’s a logical fallacy.
“And tt means PC is happy, not forced to be happy, he is really happy, feel very light, yes… it is.”
Yeah, that’s a good thing, and many of us were capable of doing that; I being one of them and you too. But as I said or inferred, there are many good therapies out there who can ALSO bring about Cogs, VGIs and a release. Fortunately, most of them don’t come with twisted “facts”, or any need to trademark or copyright their techniques for selfish purposes, or are bent to attacking the ones who criticize them, or are not willing to share their research with others and willing to improve their techniques. Those therapies are ACTUALLY meant to help with NO strings attached. Get with me, and I’ll show them to you.
“Love to you my friend.”
I love you too, my friend! My best wishes to you and your family. 🙂
Thetaclear – “; Scientology’s is rigged – either intentionally or not – to cause severe introversion on the individual; a continual “looking into our minds” to see what’s wrong with it. Most of Scn processes are inherently introverting.”
Ain’t that the truth! And do it for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS. OMG. Get out of your head and live a little! Go help the disabled veterans or teach school or what-the-hell ever – GO DO SOMETHING. Extrovert yourself!
(This was Flow 0 – self to self, when I finally left!)
I didn’t do any OT levels but one time I decided to read the procedures on one of the levels, perhaps OT2, on the internet. While reading, thinking about and considering what was in the procedure I realized that I was beginning to run the process on myself. That might produce some benefit in a structured environment, but jumping in on my own was not for me so I quit reading.
That’s right, T-Marie; the “Flow zero” aspect that was soooooo missing in Scn. When I finally embraced that, I literally felt as if I had born again, 🙂 I wish that some Scientolgists good friends of mine, could do that, 🙁
Yes ThetaClear, you write : ” He have it very well deserved, my friend, but I don’t hate him any more than I don’t hate anybody else in life. What I say and how I say it, is part of the strategy. It isn’t personal, I assure you. With me, it is never personal. ”
A strategy ? You really want to decredibilize Hubbard? Does he desserve it to such a degree? Didn’t he left positives things behind him?
You might be right, the stable data I keep about the tech might let no room for new data. But I am kind of lazy about studying new things and even about studying scientology. I miss the discipline of a course room. I really was framed with GOOD course room, (not with suprevisor interrupting always for checking.)
Also, I read many things and always found that the basic of Hubbard’s tech could improve that field. You see, I remember a Dof P interview on the very begining of my scientology experience: “What would you like to see handled ?” Magical question. I started to itsa, the auditor simply listened. Never I felt to deeply expressed my feeling. Actually you suddenly discover your deep thoughts and you really suddenly feel so good and you realize something and feel so light. Just plain listen style, it’s a miracle. Any psychotherapist who can do that has happy customer. This communication cycle is such a wonder.
Before scientology I would talk endlessly without to be really understood, and I was unable to listen and understand someone. That was the huge ability gained with studying the subject.
So of course it became a stable data.
You know, like you I never bought the cultist aspect. I think it’s part of some culture which I reject strongly. It’s a fascist frame. Hubbard on one hand was for freedom of the being, and to some other degree behaved as a fascist.
Well I can spot the “fascist mind” It’s also inside of us to some degree. It surface when you think enough is enough and you will apply a strong control, of course sometime it’s nedded, but it has to stay temporary not become a permanent rule.
Hubbard forgot to cancel some policies he passed when he was pissed.
And some fascist oriented member grant those policies importance while Hubbard couldn’t really control. Of course he failed to make scintologists immortal and himself, this part was not achieved.
Yes back to reality, invalidation blew it off. You’re still a mortal being, not better than any “wogs”. What seemed a great hope is now a vintage memory.
And one wants to find new adventures, but one has to have the strength for it.
You see I tell you all that because you can be a terminal and that’s the ultimate auditor’s ability.
Also to add on the subject of “fascist mind”, it’s quite common to any ideology. I have known in my youth quite many extreme left militants, the militants scientologists have exactly the same mind. Zealot type, often very stupid. With such people you make SS, OSA staff and all.
This is not so much Hubbard responsibility, if you listen to RJ 68 he wants to avoid to fall into that. But this is the plague of groups with “total” ideology which explain the full reality of things, but surely enough, nothing ever explain all.
“A strategy ? You really want to Hubbard? Does he deserve it to such a degree? Didn’t he left positives things behind him?”
Yes, my friend, the purpose is to discredit the Oldman (and his work as well), and YES, he deserves it, but most importantly, others deserve to know with whom they are REALLY dealing with. Liars doesn’t deserve anything, FG; I really don’t know where you got the idea that they do. In order for a liar to deserve anything, he must first come clean, and take responsibility for his actions. LRH never did.
We are all guilty, some way or another, of wrong actions – I myself have done pretty bad things in my life – but if we fail to take measures to correct what we have done, and if – to make it even worse – we ATTACK others for what WE ourselves are doing to THEM – then I am afraid that being “compassionate” with them is not the correct way to go about it. There is such a thing as “correct justice”, you know.
“You might be right, the stable data I keep about the tech might let no room for new data. But I am kind of lazy about studying new things and even about studying scientology.”
It is never too late to learn, my friend. And discipline is everything in life. You owe it to yourself to learn new things, new perspectives. Just get over the apathy of doing it. You can do it; I know you can.
“…..Actually you suddenly discover your deep thoughts and you really suddenly feel so good and you realize something and feel so light. Just plain listen style, it’s a miracle. Any psychotherapist who can do that has happy customer. This communication cycle is such a wonder.”
Yes, “The Magic of Communication” indeed! That’s an art in itself. Not that many therapists have an actual professional command of it.
“Before scientology I would talk endlessly without to be really understood, and I was unable to listen and understand someone. That was the huge ability gained with studying the subject. So of course it became a stable data.”
I know what you mean; I changed soooooooo many lives with teaching them correct TRs, alone. “Squirrelly” so – haha – the org got the “wealthy” ones to pay “auditing” hours to have me to personally deliver the TRs course to them, and more frequently, the long gone, “Success Through Communication” course. That course was ACTUALLY about REAL life communication skills, and it was good; oh yeah, it was good indeed. I used to get the most silent, introverted types and turned them into very extroverted and talkative individuals. The chances were soooooooo marked, that it was very obvious for almost everyone who knew them.
“Hubbard forgot to cancel some policies he passed when he was pissed. And some fascist oriented member grant those policies importance while Hubbard couldn’t really control.”
I wish that were the case, FG, but I am afraid that it was much worse than that. You see, you are not not properly assigning LRH authorship for most things wrong with Scn. It was not just “some” policies, FG, and this wasn’t just for a few years in the mid ’60s. This actually began from day 1 of Dianetics, and more obviously so, since 1953. The evidence is right there, FG.
I think that you might want to read the excellent book by Janis Gillham Grady, “Commodore’s Messenger: A Child Adrift in the Scientology Sea Organization”. This is far, the BEST account of how was LRH REALLY like and the ACTUAL things he did, told by one of the original 4 “Commodore Messengers” who was ACTUALLY there with LRH. The book is REALLY eye-opening. You can get from Amazon.
“Yes back to reality, invalidation blew it off. You’re still a mortal being, not better than any ‘wogs’. What seemed a great hope is now a vintage memory. And one wants to find new adventures, but one has to have the strength for it.”
Welcome to the club, my friend! 🙂 But regarding “having the strength”, don’t let Scn take it away from you. Don’t do that to yourself. You are stronger than your Scn experience.
“You see I tell you all that because you can be a terminal and that’s the ultimate auditor’s ability.”
Thanks for the validation; most kind. It is always a pleasure for me to listen to others, 🙂
“Also to add on the subject of ‘fascist mind’, it’s quite common to any ideology.”
Yes indeed, it is!! That’s why we must trained ourselves in the subject of “Critical Thinking” so as to always be able to spot the scammers and the faulty arguments.
“This is not so much Hubbard responsibility, if you listen to RJ 68 he wants to avoid to fall into that.”
Uhmmm, read that book, FG. Then re-evaluate that assertion, and decide for yourself what is what. Fair enough?
Hubbard was a liar? Well maybe in life he had some bad autoritarian habits. I will read Grady’s book.
But, all what he wrote, about communication for exemple, as you said you used it, so many things which were right. I don’t claim he was right on everything, but my view is that he was more right than wrong.
You certainly know “An essay on management” doesn’t he describe the whole mechanism of autoritarianism?
And yes you’re right one should make an effort to learn new things.
“Hubbard was a liar? Well maybe in life he had some bad authoritarian habits. I will read Grady’s book.”
I am afraid that he was BOTH, FG; an authoritarian and a liar as well. Read that book and Jon Atack’s “Let’s Sell These People a Piece of the Blue Sky” (the new edition). Do it from an open-minded approach, and examine the evidence referred to in the books – particularly from the latter. Then decide for yourself how to describe LRH.
“But, all what he wrote, about communication for example, as you said you used it, so many things which were right. I don’t claim he was right on everything, but my view is that he was more right than wrong.”
I agree that LRH got many things right – though most of those things were not his original discoveries in any way, shape or form. One of LRH’s insidious methods of thought reform and conditioning, was to “Dead Agent” the concept of “Other practices”. This is so much the case, that part of the “Expanded Green Form” correction list (intended to handle “Resistive Cases”) is section J and K which basically covers psychiatry, psychology, and EVERY known “former practice”, and with “Recall” the auditor is expected to “blow” all “Locks” that the PC might have accumulated that is “preventing” him from having changes from Scn processing. In other words, his case was made “Resistive” due to his involvement into these “unworkable” and “booby-trapped” forms of therapy.
He also “Dead Agent(ed)” science as a subject, and basically put it in in the category of “unworkable”, “misguided”, and “full of falsities”; thus, making it unnecessary for the Scientologists to use the scientific methodology and even “Critical Thinking” to understand things in life. This was extremely convenient, as the actual thing that would have woke up others from the many logical fallacies that he used to support Scn, was Dead-agent(ed) by him. So even people with a formal science education like me (3 years of engineering and hundreds of hours of independent research), were stupidly fooled by his crazy claims.
But even an amateur-like application of the concepts of “Critical Thinking”, would be enough to destroy the “foundations” in which Scn was allegedly based upon. Which, by the way, it is a subject that you can look up in the web, and study it, which I am sure will bring about many great realizations for you.
For each “good/right” thing in Scn, you have 5 or more things wrong. And even the “right” things are frequently sprinkled with many false assumptions and wrong causes. LRH was by far, more wrong than “right”. If the case were the opposite, you would have a thriving field full of Scn practitioners wanting to receive and deliver Scn to others, but what we really have instead, is a dying field whose numbers are diminishing at an exponential rate. There a LOT more ex members of the CofS who decide to give up Scn in its entirety, than there are ex members who remain as Indies. That’s a known FACT. It is not difficult to theorize why is that the case : Scn is not workable enough, and whatever workable parts it does possess, are by far outweighed by the booby-trapped parts.
“You certainly know ‘An essay on management’; doesn’t he describe the whole mechanism of authoritarianism?”
Yes, of course I know that issue/article. But that he understood “authoritarianism” doesn’t mean that he was not an authoritarian himself. The thing with LRH was, that the things he got right, he seldom applied to himself.
“And yes you’re right one should make an effort to learn new things.”
Yes, please do so. LRH heavily planted in us the seed of fear towards other practices and knowledge that were not part of “Standard Tech”. IMHO, that’s the worse aspect of Scn, because it drive us away from the actual things that would free our minds; that would get us to BE part of society again, instead of the adopted “They v/s us” mentality that we were conditioned into. I mean, FG, as close to only 2 years ago, I was STILL sort of functioning under that conditioned response to some degree or another. I was hesitant and “careful” with getting myself involved into other forms of therapies, philosophies, and general mysticism and spiritualism. The thought reform had worked marvelously with me, haha. But when I finally decided to put aside Scn and study those subjects with an open-minded approach without comparing them to Scn in ANY way, my whole life had a 180 degree change for the better. It was right THERE, that I started to have stable wins which could be applied to REAL life. I’ve never been the same person after that; I had been blessed by Life again – a second chance.
Theta Clear,
Very well said, and very well done.
I couldn’t of said it better myself.
🙂
Dio
Yes, I got you ThetaClear, you’re quite convincing. But there are some part of scientology that I own really, like my own thought.
It doesn’t happened with scientology only but with some other philosopher or writer, a sense of complete duplication let’s say.
Maybe it’s part of a kind of cultist hypnotism. But the phenomena occur with anything really, and is not particular to cult.
With the time I spent to study scientology, of course to some degree I have it inside of me. But I never agreed with some of the bullshit ethics policies.
I have a bit the position of William Burrough : tech is really incredible, why those stupid and totalitarian ethics policies.
About class VIII “resistives cases” many are former practice type. Doesn’t mean that thoses practice were mainly wrong but to some degree they stuck the PC in it. Like drugs where one can be stuck on an exteriorization under LSD, which needs to be rehabed and run out. It makes sense. I really kind of cognited on this. Mainly practices earlier to scientology maybe worked but overran the person. A by passed win resulting to invalidation. Probably some have by passed the state of Buddha.
You see the idea of “overrun”, “invalidation” have very much released me on different matter. It also give another perception of time which is not a long boring waitingness, but very short units. To some degree it sent me into action.
Miscavige being an homo sapiens cannot understand the concept of overrun.
The big problem of scientology has been to become “human” again. Betrayal of “thetan” or “OT”. And even Hubbard appeared to have lost it.
Time, space, solidity was reintroduced in scientology. The whole subject is “Out Valence”.
We have lost our lightness to become realistic human, mortal, tired etc…
Maybe you’ll judge that my position is an addiction to Hubbard, but it’s not so much to Hubbard as a person.
But I couldn’t less care about Hubbard as he was flesh and blood. I hate ships, uniforms, and mostly I’m a bit racist with anglo/american, puritan. And I have a particular antagonism to monothéism, churchs etc. So I didn’t like the DNA of Hubbardand wasnot interested in his life experience, true or false.
But about many things he wrote, really, i consider he should have had the Nobel Price.
But maybe I didn’t like him as much as you did, so I’m not dissapointed.
“Yes, I got you ThetaClear, you’re quite convincing. But there are some part of scientology that I own really, like my own thought. It doesn’t happened with scientology only but with some other philosopher or writer, a sense of complete duplication let’s say.”
I understand you, FG; I really do. I am very much like you, actually. There is no need to throw away what works for us. Why should we, you know? Knowledge doesn’t belong to LRH nor to anybody else. Knowledge – workable knowledge – is there waiting for whoever is ready to make good use of it.
“Maybe it’s part of a kind of cultist hypnotism. But the phenomena occur with anything really, and is not particular to cult.”
It is not. You are just using what works for you. That’s perfectly fine.
“With the time I spent to study scientology, of course to some degree I have it inside of me. But I never agreed with some of the bullshit ethics policies.”
I also have a lot from Scn as part of me. The ones who know about my “bitter criticism” towards Scn and LRH, would never suspect how much from Scn I still use in my life. What works, doesn’t have anything to do with its originator or discoverer. One doesn’t immediately stop using the concepts of electromagnetism, for example, just because one finds out that Maxwell was a criminal (he was not; I am only offering an example). If the concepts work, then it is logical to use them, and rejecting those workable concepts based on emotions is a logical fallacy (something illogical).
“About class VIII “resistive cases” many are former practice type. Doesn’t mean that those practice were mainly wrong but to some degree they stuck the PC in it. Like drugs where one can be stuck on an exteriorization under LSD, which needs to be rehabbed and run out. It makes sense. I really kind of cognited on this. Mainly practices earlier to scientology maybe worked but overran the person. A by passed win resulting to invalidation. Probably some have by passed the state of Buddha.”
I understand that, and can even agree with it, but LRH’s main reason for that was based on his fixated belief that those practices were unworkable and booby-trapped. You are interpreting it in a correct way, in that one might be – for example – stuck on a past win, or on a past failed purpose, etc; but that was not necessarily LRH’s reasons for that CL. He actually thought that those practices were unworkable and booby-trapped, and “therefore”, had produced locks and even engrams on the PC. And that’s a unfounded generalization and a faulty logic.
“You see the idea of “overrun”, “invalidation” have very much released me on different matter. It also give another perception of time which is not a long boring waitingness, but very short units. To some degree it sent me into action.”
Yeah, I see your point, but LRH put just TOO much stress on “Overrunning”. His story about how many cases had allegedly been overrun before his discovery of the “F/N”, and had allegedly “bogged down”, wasn’t a reality. Hundreds of PCs from before the SHSBC era were run for many, many hours in 1951-’55 processes with great wins with no symptoms of “overrun” whatsoever. And in the BC, one could run for hours and hours constructing a specific GMP with no thoughts about “F/Ns”. And nobody died. Well, a few went crazy, haha. Really, so much emphasis on Overrunning is just silly. I never put my attention on that when I audited others, and I did just fine. Most things before the “F/N bullshit”, was more or less OK.
“We have lost our lightness to become realistic human, mortal, tired etc…Maybe you’ll judge that my position is an addiction to Hubbard, but it’s not so much to Hubbard as a person.”
Actually, I have affinity for that concept, but that concept you can find it on almost every easter philosophy. But as I told you in an earlier reply, we need to educate ourselves in other philosophies and healing techniques to have a broader view of it all. Then, we’ll be able to recognize that Scn only copy-pasted those concepts, but that they are even more understood outside of Scn.
“But I couldn’t less care about Hubbard as he was flesh and blood. I hate ships, uniforms, and mostly I’m a bit racist with anglo/american, puritan.”
Haha, I am Hispanic, so you might have an idea how I feel about my relationship with USA. We are US citizens, all right; but that doesn’t necessarily make us Americans. I am not. I am Puerto Rican. And our cultures couldn’t be more different.
“But about many things he wrote, really, i consider he should have had the Nobel Prize.
But maybe I didn’t like him as much as you did, so I’m not disappointed.”
Uhmmm, If you were to study the history about where exactly LRH took most of “his” principles from – as I did in GREAT detail – I feel that you might change your mind about it, my friend. When one has read and study as much as I have about so many different methods of healing, philosophies, history of philosophy, etc, Scientology suddenly loses its “magic” and its “grandeur”. And it wasn’t that I didn’t like him; I DID. It is just that I never thought that he was smarter than me. He wasn’t. Yeah, I know; that’s my “Aries” self-righteous side speaking, haha. But I love that side of me, 😉
We can keep this up on email lines, my friend; I don’t want Mike to work too much on having to read our loooong replies, 🙂 You kept my email, right?
Yes I have your mail, and you have mine. We could continue our interesting conversation.
And thanks to Mike for reading and publishing.
“Yes I have your mail, and you have mine. We could continue our interesting conversation.”
Great! Yes, we will!
Mike, congratulations. The clampire takes another big blow. And Elizebeth Moss only made it worse for the Sciebots. You all rock. What a team!
Terra,
I try my best to always maintain intellectual integrity and I am objective when I make an evaluation and analysis and criticism of everything.
I did scn mostly on my own. Therefore I was not under the mind control and indoctrination of the church while I was doing it.
Therefore I kept a critical mind and questioned and tested everything. With partiality only to workability and the truth. (Actually the samething)
I read 100s of books before I got into scn.
I was actually doing my own version of bk 1 and scn. But never got anywhere close.
I only had lots of experience in what did not work.
So I had other reference points.
Long, long story short:
I found the most valuable data in the world in dianetics and scn
But it is also highly flawed.
Only a small percentage is good.
I found the good data in scn to be more than helpful.
It saved my life more than a few times.
But there is still more to do.
I would say that bk 1 is the most important and most valuable book.
(That is not discredting scn. SoS is an equal in value, to bk 1 for me.)
But bk 1 also contains some false and limiting data.
RE: bk 1 engrams are real.
So are secondaries.
I have lots of each. And have reduced many.
But I have not been able to find or see any
locks. Or figure out what they are.
I have lots of flashbacks, though.
Flashbacks: a sudden and disturbing vivid memory of an event in the past, typically as the result of psychological trauma, or taking LSD.
(I have never done drugs or did any substance abuse. Just have lots of traumatic incidents. )
I am wondering if “locks” are something that Hubbard made up and convinced people that they are real and need to find them and audit them out. (And of course, pay the church to audit them out.)
I suspect they are.
And if so, that will cause some real serious problems. And endless auditing.
I want to know what your viewpoint and experience is with locks?
Do they exist?
Dio
Terra,
Post script:
You can make “locks” the subject of your next week blog, if you agree that “locks” do not exist.
Or any related subject.
Anything you have to say about bk 1. Pros and cons.
Dio
Dio: If engram chains and locks exist, I would think practically everything a person encounters in life could or would key him in.
Dio, you could call locks “triggers” if you want to use a psychology term. But, studies are showing more and more that we DON’T have to address the past necessarily to “de-stimulate” those triggers.
You subscribe to the idea that engrams and secondaries are the cause of those triggers (locks) getting stimulated. I no longer subscribe to that story. Of course, I have losses and things that make me think about those losses on occasion, but that has nothing to do with engrams.
I think that if you have gotten rid of engrams and secondaries then the locks have probably blown too.
This has nothing to do with the subject,
I’ve watched Jason Beghes video a few times and at the very end he’s taking about Mike being so Mean he looked sinister,it is like night and day,the Mike I see now has such a big heart, sweet father I’m just so happy for him you definitely took the right path in life Mike you are helping to change people’s lives the must feel good even though the road to change things is rough I’m happy you’re still on it!
Dave,
Is your Mark begging you to let him lecture Hollywood about what constitutes Reality Programming? Just tell him to get back to writing the script for his next disinformation propaganda video to his End Phenomena: Psychosis.
Congratulations Mike! I just heard you guys won the Television Critics award!!! You guys SO deserve it. I’m so happy all the hard work you guys are doing is getting the recognition it deserves.
(Oh, I also heard Elizabeth Moss walked out while you guys were on stage. LOL Too funny! I reckon she was just trying to save herself from being interrogated about what she heard those BAD SPs say.)
I thought she was supposed to be able to receive communication on any subject? (You know, speaking of EPs)
Or maybe she was afraid of getting KRed, comm-eved, and declared.
Congratulations Mike! To you and Leah. The show would not have received this award without your input and knowledge. You are changing the world for the better bit by bit, person by person. Every person that wakes up and gets out or never gets in this abusive church is a life saved.
I am very proud of you and Leah!
To Mike and Leah:
CONGRATULATIONS, AND THANK YOU.
What Mary kahn said.
Just so all of you people out there know and can all keep your money and/or do more useful thing in your life: the end phenomenon of scientology is here:
http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Former_Church_of_Scientology_members_who_have_spoken_out
🙂
Just went to your page of X members. Great page, TA! I hope everyone clicks on.
There I am, Old Surfer Dude 😉
Congratulations to Mike & Leah, A & E, and the entire crew and guests of Season 1 of Aftermath!
It’s not going to be a pleasant day for the staff in RTC. When Dave wakes up at noon and reads the news, he’s going to be mighty upset!
Great post, Terra Cognita,
I was in the “church” for 40 plus years and left in 2010. Smartest move I made in so many years. Every time I remember my past mind set, I am so happy to be out of the “church of total betrayal” and free from all the accompanying brainwashing’!
Just read the great news about the award! Congratulations to you, Mike Rinder! Thrilled for you completely!
Warmest Regards,
Penny Krieger
2017 TCA award for Outstanding Achievement in Reality Programming: LEAH REMINI: SCIENTOLOGY AND THE AFTERMATH (A&E). Congratulations on the TCA award Mike & Leah – well deserved. Next stop, the Emmy’s! 🙂
Not to upstage Terra Cognita’s brilliant columns but …….Congratulations to Leah and Mike and the A&E team for winning the Television Critics Association award for Outstanding Achievement In Reality Programming. Ironically it will be a big factor in dismantling the reality of our favourite false religion
That is quite the aftermath and success story.
Oh, I forgot to thank to LRH and especially the current circus master for running the whole shebang into the ground. Gotta just love the recent results from Australia that show the number of scientologists in the census declined ~20% between 2006 and 2011 and by the same amount from 2011 to 2016. Three points make a trend line and we have numbers on the axes unlike those fake graphs facts that the church puts up to pull the wool over the sheeple’s eyes.
Take the whole bottle of single malt to bed with you tonight Dave.
Congrats on the win with Aftermath!!!!
Dave,
FYI:
Outstanding Achievement in Reality Programming: “Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath”
Enjoy! Be sure to let Tom know, LOL.
You won! Awesome! Now, on to the Emmys!
Congratulations to Mike and Leah and the whole Aftermath crew and the brave folks that appeared on the show! A major win tonight and I am sure there is more to come.
A&E’s investigative true-life series LEAH REMINI: SCIENTOLOGY AND THE AFTERMATH received the award for Outstanding Achievement In Reality Programming.
Applause! Applause! Applause! This is wonderful validation for ALL the brave souls who exposed their personal lives and pain on TV for us to see and to A & E for the dignified way that their stories were presented. Congrats to all for taking the high road. Can’t wait for Season 2.
(Oh heck – take Sunday off Mike!)
The EP of these essays is that anything considerd to be a new spiritual or subjective reality must be rejected in favor of materialisic atheism.
No r. What is being discussed is OBJECTIVE promises made about OBJECTIVE states. Take some ESL classes.
By the by, (“apologies to Chuck Beatty”), but one CAN be an atheist, that is to say does not believe in a Supreme Being/Creator of the whole universe and not be a materialist (but an atheist who believes that man is a spirit/soul, and not a body.)
Very True Joe P. Very true.
Well then if THE definition of “atheist” is,not believing in a SOLE supreme being/creator of the whole universe, then, I guess I’m an atheist. Who knew? 🙂
The American Atheist Society states:
“Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.” (and) “To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.”
There’s no way to prove it but I don’t think most atheists spend much time thinking about “spiritual” matters. What’s real is real, existence exists, consciousness is self evident.
Maybe where speakers like Sam Harris fit in is in reassuring atheists that they too are spiritual beings (people).
My best friend is a skeptic and an atheist and he’s living a full and happy life. He and his wife recently took a vacation in England and they visited Stonehenge and took a guided tour. The guide placed two right angled wires in his own hands and when he walked through a certain area the wires started spinning. My friend wanted to try it himself and the guide let him do it. Guess what? The wires started spinning. He’s now a tiny bit less skeptical.
He sometimes worries that I’m still stuck in scn. I’ll occasionally mention some concept from scn I find funny or useful and that gets him worrying – lol. For example, “The human mind is engaged in the estimation of effort.” is one I like.
Thanks for your article Terra. The true EP of Scientology is recognizing it’s a complete scam concocted by a two-faced manipulator, and exteriorizing from the organization for all eternity.
Do you think little davey will feel a “gain” after Season 2 of AFTERMATH airs on August 15 at 9pm (EST)?
I’d like to see that “success story” !
Little Davey wii definitely feel some gain. He’s not going to like the kind of ‘gain’ he’s going to get. But he’ll definitely get gain.
OSD,
I bet that little davie will slap around anyone within reach when he gets the news that:
LEAH REMINI HAS THE RANK!
Congratulations to Mike and Leah.
As well as winning one of the awards last night! Who Hoo! Go get ’em, Mike & Leah!
Poor Lou. Good thing she’s a martial arts aficionado. Miscavige – bully/coward that he is, would avoid belting a Black Belt.
No pain, no gain.
“Loss of inability to have others having problems with others”
WHAT??? What does this even mean?
Hubbard speak. Remember, Scientology has it’s own language.
What does it even mean in Hubbard speak? LOL Just the first part, “loss of inability,” you can’t lose something you never had. And the rest, “to have others having problems with others,” that’s just gibberish.
I think it means that you no longer care if , for example, Nancy and Susan are fighting (or not). But it doesn’t sound half so grand as “others having problems with others.”
Well, that’s what Scientology is all about, gibberish. So when you’re reading Hubbard’s words, just remember it’s all gibberish. And you need to become fluent in it.
best of luck tonight Mike and Leah !! i made a phone call to the public relations person for the show and found out they will not be televised.
Wishing you and Leah all the best, Mike! Break a leg!
Good luck Mike and Leah, my fingers are crossed hoping you win!!!!
LRH was a criminal con man who delivered anything but a “show” of delusion and fraud….using smoke and mirrors
so that followers
Chase that carrot on a stick for eternity
Scientology is nothing but FRAUD!
Criminal fraud, Idle. Massive criminal fraud!
Yeesh. Auditing sounds like something that should be disallowed under the Geneva Convention, not a positive, affirming experience.
Auditing is and of its self, is a fraud.
Actually I have benefited greatly by auditing, I found it very affirming and gave me opportunity to recalculate my earlier opinions (mainly about myself) and I came out of those sessions with a renewed sense of dignity and integrity. I realize there are a vast array of opinion on this topic. I also realize that auditing under the big tent of Scientology can be a dicey experience mainly due to how people were trained and the intelligence level of the auditor. The best auditing I ever got was with an old school auditor who trained during the early years of the Sea Project. (But that man is just plain brilliant.) I don’t trust the C of S to train auditors to take people into session. Once you get a taste for auditing outside of the walls and confines of the paramilitary cult you never go back. (Unless you need that “group dynamic” to reaffirm things for you to keep them real)
Thanks for your insight. Do you mind if I ask a few questions?
Did you ever feel like it was too regimented, like there was pressure to get the ‘right’ answers? Are you still in contact with the brilliant auditor?
How exciting for all of with Aftermath! Best wishes on taking home the award! KAW!
LRH didn’t promise the world, he promised the universe throughout time. Of course, he didn’t deliver on ANY of the miracles he promised; No Clears, no OTs, no stability, no more sanity than he, himself had
Yep. And we were all taken in. I was one of the lucky ones as I got out in ’82.rburns
Brilliantly written, as always.
Good luck at the TV Critics award show toninghy Mike! Did you ever imagine how wonderful your life could be when you were stuck in the hole? Seems your blessings have skyrocketed 47X since leaving the CULT of Scientology!
“LRH promised the world. Rarely did he deliver”
I’m surprised you would say “Rarely”; did LRH ever deliver anything of major consequence or significance, or even minor achievements that would somehow redeem him? Your last line seems to suggest that he did.
Excellent and spot on observations. No one has reached the EP’s as described; that’s why it’s easy for the reges to extract a small fortune from the PC for the next incredible level, which will supposedly and no doubt deliver the real goods and so goes the gerbil wheel. As I recall after writing the success story and the public announcement of your win one is swiftly directed to the registrar 🙂
There is one EP I got from the Church.
DEATH. It took many years to get there but, like you said, these states are not permanent. I hope that I can just do a retread. Otherwise I will have to do my A-E before my retrain. I don’t really want to do all that shit again.
Cognitive dissonance in the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort (psychological stress) experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. The occurrence of cognitive dissonance is a consequence of a person’s performing an action that contradicts personal beliefs, ideals, and values; and also occurs when confronted with new information that contradicts said beliefs, ideals, and values. ……Two problems with this, any mention of the word “psychology” will trigger an automatic dismissal on the part of the reader who is trained via Hubbards worldview, and the fact that their own “personal” values have been replaced by the values of the organization. This almost guaranties that a Scientologist will be intellectually derailed early on in their Scientology career, sufficiently to allow for the group to install their own synthetic personality. He or she is then considered “on board” and they will routinely lie at exams about their gains in auditing. (Or lie to themselves convincingly enough where they actually believe all of their problems have vanished) Group think is powerful.
Congratulations Mike,Leah and All. Fingers crossed and polishing the ruby slippers… Thank you Terra. Love the last words! To me he delivered a new triangle Ommand Control Obey. Although when in SO I would have said I was a traitor. So glad to free. ?
Edit To Me Ron delivered a new triangle. Command Control Obey. ?
Yep. And that old real fast.
Sure did! Hugs to you & yours.?
Thanks Ann B! Right back at you.
Enjoy the awards! Good luck to all!
Wow,
You really opened a can of worms, Terra.
I will not pretend to try to answer all of the questions and the cynicism that I am reading.
I am wondering how in the name of Allah that you can remain undeclared. Surely, in the Church that I knew, you would have been declared 10 times over for the statements that you have made. And if I was on the Comm-Ev I would have confirmed the declare as it would have been the most straight-forward decision I ever had to make on a Committee. Now, I don’t believe that you are suppressive. I believe that you are human.
It is human nature to believe the worst about people and LRH knew that most people would make a dog’s breakfast of of the tech. That is why he came up with policies like KSW. First of all, noone in the Church ever asked me to believe in past lives. Anything in my files (assuming that they are accurate) about past lives are thing I told my auditor. I will continue this later as usually when I make a long comment, my phone screws up and loses it before I finish it.
“First of all, no one in the Church ever asked me to believe in past lives. ”
Of course not, the notion of past lives is implicit within the fundamental beliefs and core doctrines of the ‘faith’. No one in $cn asked you if you believed in past lives, just as no one out here in the real world is going to ask you if you believe in gravity, because its presupposed as an immutable law that doesn’t require your belief in order to be true.
Time to wake up, sir, and come out of the Kool-aid trance; I promise that when you do, reality will once again be real for you 😉 The Holy Tech IS a “dog’s breakfast” and Elron was his own “failed case,” who died the exact kind of death that any other old, sick, demented mere mortal would suffer.
Maybe no one verbally demands that you run past lives, but if you don’t, I promise you that behind the scenes, the case supervisor is pulling out case remedies to make sure that you get beyond that block and DO run past lives. Just saying.
Ou how everything here is common through countries and continents!
Aaron smith-levin said ones in his video “no one ever wrote in success story well i didn’t gained what I was promised but it was still pretty good after all”.
Almost everyone at a point somewhere between Purif and arc straightwire learns this mental gymnastic “well I maybe don’t achieved everything but I feel really better”
In my case it were:
1. “Well a really feel that toxins are leaving my body”
2. “I’am not so shy and misanthropic anymore, I don’t afraid to talk to new people, let’s say I can talk to anyone”
3. “Well if I stop to think how awful were my high school years than I relived from it, well I’am free from this upsets and ready to see the future”
4. “I was braved enough to change oil in my car myself for the first time in my life, well let’s count it as doing a new thing”
And etc. but of course my official success stories were about wonderful miracles which happened to me
And all of this privately designed techniques to pass the Examinare!
I pearsonnaly was always thinking about something warm and fuzzy while giving standardized answers.
Fingers & toes crossed Mike!
Correct Terra. The E.P’s (which is what is sold in scamology are not obtained. It is a COMPLETE scam.
It’s actually a criminal scam. A global criminal scam. And they’re focused on only one thing: MONEY!
Very true!
This was actually the core of the criminal trial in France, and the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology lost it spectacularly.
So, the Co$ got a criminal verdict as guilty of organised criminal fraud, and the court wasn’t even getting into the other lawbreaking activities (obstruction of justice type activities).
What is needed is enough public awareness and some gutsy and well prepared prosecutors. I recommend Arnaud Palisson’s “Grande enquête sur la Scientologie.”
Remember, it’s not about the unusual beliefs, it’s about the criminal actions.
Yes, the court nailed scamology for fraudulently promising the OBJECTIVE gains listed on the Grade Chart and not delivering.
One thing that strikes me as sooooo ironic is that their pride and joy, the one thing everyone says they got in for and stayed because of, their claim to fame, has been the Communications courses. And yet they don’t have ONE Scientologist they can send out to speak for them. Nobody. Zip. All they can do is send out their paid non-Scientologist lawyer to defend them. Where in the hell are all those communication skills?
The Delphian School is Scientology’s premier boarding school in Sheridan, Oregon. Shortly after graduating, I completed my Method 1 Word Clearing at the Portland Org. I found the end phenomenon of the supposed recovery of one’s education to be laughable, and said as much in my success story. One month and two cycles of lower conditions later, I revised my success story to omit any mention of the absurdity of a 19-year old “recovering his education” and merely effused praise to my auditor and L. Ron Hubbard. I never thought about the possibility of recovering the educations of my past lives, because it was never mentioned. Seems like an oversight now.
When I was the Cramming Officer at the Delphian School, I always got a kick out of the snarky success stories that would get kids sent to me or to the Ethics Officer—or both. “I already knew this stuff, but I guess reviewing it didn’t hurt.” “The course was okay I guess but I could have finished it faster if my supervisor stopped bugging me so much.” “This course sucks and I hate it here!!!!!” “I can’t believe you seriously expect me to write a success story about everything in this horrible school. What are you guys nazis?”
Students at Delphi quickly learn to write short and effusive success stories if only to keep the adults off their backs—and to be allowed to progress to the next course. I’m sure there were plenty of genuine successes, but 90% of the stories read, “I learned a lot about (subject). I’m glad my supervisor could help me.” Extra points for “Thanks to Study Tech for helping me learn!” I suppose all that success story writing could be counted toward improving one’s essay skills.
I attended Delphi’s summer session in 1981 and loved it so much my parents moved heaven and earth to come up with the money to send me there full time. But it took them a year to work things out, and I didn’t start at Delphi until the 1982 fall term. The very first course for new students is The Learning Book, an idiotically simplified picture book which teaches the basics of Hubbard’s Study Tech. When I returned to the school, the course supervisors demanded I redo the Learning Book even though I had already finished it the year before, and earned 100% on the examination. When they demanded I redo the course for no other reason than having been away for a year, I refused.
Thus, I spent my very first day at the school in the Ethics Department waiting for the Ethics Officer to grace me with his presence. Now, students waiting in Ethics were not allowed to sit idly; I had to dust some plants and run some errands while the adults in the room looked at these curious creatures who would get themselves in trouble on the first day of school. Of course the Ethics Officer was a terrifying man of 6’2” who convinced me in about thirty seconds that it would be in my best interest to redo the Learning Book.
So I did, even while I seethed inside at the unfairness of it all. I redid that Book in a single day, and then aced the exam (again). I glared at the Examiner when he asked, “Would you like to write a success story?” It was the question he asked every student, of course, but his insufferable good humor did not make the task palatable. Would we, indeed?
“It was good reviewing the Learning Book, even though I already finished this course last year. I’m glad I got 100% on the exam. Again.” I thought my story genuine and succinct. What more could they expect in this whole rotten affair?
As I would discover, they expected much more than I could ever imagine. Demanded it, in fact. It would be the second time in the first two days of the school year that I would be marched down to the Ethics Officer. And he wouldn’t be nearly as pleasant as the first time.
Until my snarky Method 1 Word Clearing story eight years later, I never again tested the waters of truth in the telling of success stories. It was one of the surest ways to, at best, invite scrutiny and, at worst, to experience the seven hells of Scientology punishment for daring to speak one’s mind.
Was that EO a dude named Robert, by any chance?
It was Kirch. If I remember correctly he was new in that position in the fall of 1982.
“Technical Downgrades” is an additional important reference. It gives the either/or predicament, in that it is the follower’s fault, if they false attest things that are not attained.
Hubbard’s rules have the followers coming and going. Staff are just put on the chopping block for all failures, and Hubbard never accepted it was his fault, not until the final moments, as told so importantly, for history, in “Going Clear….” book final pages, and in the “Going Clear….” DVD and the Kindle extended version on Amazon Kindle of the book “Going Clear…” which has a bit more of the Wright interview with Sarge, so important to the only moment that in history were Hubbard took a tiny bit of responsiblity that it was all a failure, and he admitted he failed, to Sarge.
That is so important, to get that Amazon extended “Going Clear….” Kindle edition and listen to Sarge’s interview wtih Wright. Just the most devastating final admissions by LRH, which ought to be a Video “Ron’s Journal” “Source” briefing that ALL Scientologists former and current, ought to hear!!!
Wright’s final pages are just the still unappreciated most blockbuster final admission of Hubbard’s.
I feel compelled to comment.
“Many—if not all—Scientologists attest to EPs that they haven’t achieved.”
Nonsense, and surely you know it. The vast majority of Scientologists are sincere in attesting to the result of a level or whatever. No doubt some don’t, but your comment, “Many – if not all –“ is utterly false.
“The overwhelming majority would rather jump off a high bridge than have to talk with any of the people who comment on this site.”
“If there’s one thing Scientologist’s are hung up on, it’s communicating freely—much less on “unpleasant and unwanted subjects.”.”
True, but not for the reasons you are implying. Just because someone who can comm to anyone on anything doesn’t mean they have to do so. Who wants to talk about unpleasant things, is a choice, not lack of the ability to do so.
Your comment; “… would rather jump off a high bridge …” make that choice for other reasons that have nothing to do with their ability to do so or not. Again, I believe you know that.
You are right though, in one aspect. The one area Scientologists fear to discuss is the CofS itself, other than that … all is free.
“Many Scientologists perform mental gymnastics in order to rationalize they’ve actually achieved a particular EP.”
Again, a generality. Yes, of course some falsely attest, but ‘many’ … how many? More than those who honestly attest? You haven’t any idea.
“… think of the incredible devices, contraptions, and gadgets we must have been exposed to—or invented. Like warp-drive engines!”
Misleading. Any education you recover would be in the language of the M1 you received. I agree though that the previous education wasn’t fully recovered every time, but probably cleaned up quite a bit.
“As someone who “completed” Method One, I can’t remember half of what I learned in this lifetime’s high school chemistry. But did I attest to this process? You bet!”
You false attested. Why? Maybe if you hadn’t done so, and were taken back in and had the rundown cleaned up, maybe you would have recovered you knowledge in high school chemistry, but you’ll never know because you false attested.
“There may not be a Grade Chart EP that has ever been permanently achieved. To a point where a PC hasn’t backslid or lost his ability at some point. Often, EPs disappear after only a few days of living in the real world.”
The lower grades are not permanent, they relieve the symptoms of the underlying causes, which are not addressed in the lower grades. So, over time those underlying causes can kick back in, ‘undoing’ the ability. How long would they last … who knows? This is known and understood by … well … anybody who has ever taken the time to study the levels.
As far as I know, there are no permanent solution in any of the grade chart, and offhand I can’t think of where LRH claimed that all abilities were permanent. He may have, but I don’t recall any. What is handled is handled, but existence is full of unpredictable variables. Get rid of all the hindrances in one area, regain an ability, absolutely permanent from those hindrances, but maybe new hindrances comes back into the same area and you get walloped! Who knows? Beings can do weird things at times, even shove themselves back into the mud.
Don’t forget, at one time all Beings had these abilities and for whatever reason surrendered them, could happen again.
It was a real pleasure to read those earlier Eps from the earlier versions of the green books. Do they no longer do flow by flow EP attests?
“At every step of the way, he’s controlled and molded, and pushed and shoved, until he “cogs.” Until he finally rationalizes he’s achieved his EP.”
False. I don’t know any PC who was pushed and shoved until he ‘rationalizes’ his EP, and I’ve audited well over ten thousand hours … never happened, not once.
“As an added step to this whole process, LRH created an Examiner where Scientologists are required to prove they actually attained what they said they did.”
Again, false. The purpose of the examiner is just to record the needle phenomena and PC indicators, and any comments. On attests cycles, the examiner has the PC read what the EP of the level, and if the PC agrees they have that EP, or disagrees, that’s the end of it. I’ve seen many, many cases where the PC didn’t feel they could attest, and didn’t. So much for your comment about having to ‘prove’ anything.
“It’s never the auditor’s fault. It’s never the tech. inevitably, the PC didn’t tell all.”
Again false. Ever heard of ‘cramming’?
Bob G, bring one person who can DEMONSTRATE that they achieved the E.P. of Grade 1 and I’m sure we can dig up a million dollars for you.
But, NO ONE ever has.
You’re talking to one.
And me! And about 50,000+ others. Thing is they can’t be bothered to satisfy your urges and problems.
I was sent to attest the E.P of ARC-Straightwire at L.A. Org. in 1971.
When I read the EP “Knows he or she won’t get any worse”, at exams,
I said, “how can I know that?” and refused to attest. A few months
later back in Switzerland something happened that would normally
have me go: “oh damn, now this, tomorrow this, things are getting worse!”
But strangely this did not happen and I cognited that I had had the EP of ARC-Straightwire.
There was no place one could attest in Switzerland at the time, so I went
to Saint-Hill. Later on the Briefing Course I learned the theory behind
ARC-Straightwire and thought: LRH is a genius! I still think so…
Demonstrate it in the real world and you win. Don’t and continue to be an insane cult member.
He did demonstrate it in the real world Wynski. It happened when he went back to Switzerland. Give credit where credit is do.
This man is honoring us with a realization about life he had getting auditing. But the gain manifested after session.
Sometimes you disrespect other’s real life realizations. As sentient beings endowed with intelligence, it is absolutely impossible to not learn knew things; ANYWHERE
People have had profound experiences in Scientology. You may think we are all looney. I’m ok with it.
Are you ok me telling you you may have some emotional issues lurking, regarding Scientology?
When you dis people for having wins, by telling them how wrong they are, you become the person you complain about.
I agree with you 99 percent of the time. But you get angry and emotional. That clouds my ability to get you.
Hugs
B
“He did demonstrate it in the real world Wynski. It happened when he went back to Switzerland. Give credit where credit is do.”
I agree with you, Brian, that we must be very careful not to make invalidating comments when someone is communicating about any wins that they might have had with Scn or with any other form of therapy, for that matter. And this, even if we feel that the person might be acting delusional about it, which I am NOT inferring in any way that Marcel was.
That having been said, and without in any way referring to Mercel’s win with Scn SW; the cult aspect – you know, the “thought reform” and indoctrination methods used by cults; especially by Scn – can condition a person into believing that he/she has some “special” powers and abilities that IN FACT, he doesn’t have. And I have experienced this myself when I was still a Scientolgist. I felt many “abilities” that I in fact, never had, but I had been insidiously conditioned into believing things that were just mere delusions. This isn’t to mean that I got no wins from my Scn experience; I had quite a few of them. But an important differentiation should be made between reality and the apparency brought about by thought reform.
It is all kind and gentle to acknowledge when someone says, “I no longer have any problems in life, and when I do, I immediately blow them by inspection”, but is he/she being realistic about it, or is he/she being into the delusion of it caused by cult conditioning?
For me personally, Brian, when I see anyone admiring so much an individual who have destroyed so many lives, and who used others as slaves while he got rich, I can’t help it but to suspect that person’s originations of his alleged wins, even if I don’t voice – which I don’t – my suspicions directly in his/her presence.
You got to understand that in most cases, many Scientologists have never known and/or practiced any other form of therapy besides Scientology, and thus, have nothing to compare Scn against. But perhaps if they decided to avail themselves of over therapeutic experiences, they might change their minds about their wins with Scn, or the way that they now look at them.
Anyway, my ¢2 cents, 🙂
Indeed, there is always a danger with “only way” “you’re going to hell” type thought clubs.
But even in Aushwitz, Victor Frankl rose victorious with his epic book “Man’s Search For Meaning.”
It’s our nature TO LEARN. It’s what intelligence sentient humans do.
Yes there are traps everywhere in these types of groups. But there are still those who will learn whatever they are.
Lessons are learned in the mind. If this man got this great cog in the grades than who are we to tell him it did not happen.
I may have another essay dealing with the delusional aspect MyTwo Cents.
Regarding the OT levels.
“Yes there are traps everywhere in these types of groups. But there are still those who will learn whatever they are.”
“Lessons are learned in the mind. If this man got this great cog in the grades then who are we to tell him it did not happen.”
I do get your point, Brian, and I very much agree with being careful not to invalidate – in any way – the wins that others comment about, even if those wins seems too far-fetched or delusional; which in the specific case of Marcel, I am not doubting neither his sincerity nor the reality of them.
That having been clarified, I also agree that as humans, we can learn and get good things out of the most extreme situations in life. This is a “shades of grey” world, and not a “black and white” one. However, IMHO, I think that we must watch for the adopting a “Buddha” type of attitude regarding this specific dilemma about the “good v/s bad” from Scn, because otherwise, we might fail to save others from getting injured by Scn’s booby-trapped “knowledge”, beliefs, and techniques.
The important point is not – IMHO – whether or not people have had wins with Scn processing, or have benefited from it in any way. The important point is whether or not their involvement with it represents more dangers than “benefits” to them. And it is my educated and professional opinion, that the possible dangers by far outweigh any “benefits”. That’s has always been my central argument to which I will adhere to, driven by a genuine concern about the welfare of others.
This has never been, and will never be, an issue of “hate”, or “revenge”, or “destruction” for me. It has always been, and will always be about really caring for others. That’s who I really am, and who I have always been.
I agree with you Theta Clear re dangers vs wins. It’s like a bunch of divers diving for pearls in shark infested waters. Some surface and say,”wow I have a pearl!”.
Others become lunch.
Then who wants to promote this place? The danger is not telling people about the sharks and only speaking about pearls.
And what makes it worse: making it a punishable offense to reveal the existence of sharks!
Thus we are here talking about sharks.
“Thus we are here talking about sharks.”
I love your analogy, 🙂
Indeed, we are talking about sharks!! And the BIG white ones, haha
What is the EP of grade 1? Communication?
No, ‘problems’ release..
Thanks. It’s been a long time.
The EP is to be ability to make the sources of all your problems vanish at well.
In other words OSD, COMPLETELY false. As is everything Tubbolard claimed int he real world.
Bob G
Thank you for your excellent critique of the article. I agree completely with every one of your statements.
Also LRH said that “There are no “dog PCs only dog auditors and C/S “.
Bob G, this is refreshing. In line with what I experienced on the bridge decades ago. Thank you for this.
Bob G, I experienced early auditing and yes in almost all cases it seemed genuine at the time. However no one I know achieved the EPs of the early OT levels. It was a sham and everyone knew it. Few talked about. It was not until around 1979 when NED for OTs came out did members feel that they would be attaining real EPs on the upper levels.
And look where that ended up. And I do not know any old timers who had full EPs on their grades or clear. Hubbard was obsessively adding or changing the processes.
Why because generally no one was able to truly become OT. And that includes him.
Ultimately the untruth of Scientology kicks in.
Where are all the old OTs? If Scn worked they would still be around.
Nope, dead, out or in a few cases, old Sciebot still ins who are shells of their former selves. And I see them every day.
Bob G asserts that”The lower grades are not permanent, they relieve the symptoms of the underlying causes, which are not addressed in the lower grades,” but this is not just verbal tech, but a false statement. There’s no mention of the impermanence or transitory nature of these supposed gains. Rather, they’re presented as stable gains which, once you’ve attained them, you’ll never be bothered by or have to deal with again.
You’re just trying to rationalise the failure of the cult to deliver what it’s promised by delusionally imagining that no promises were made to begin with…shame on you, sir, for not KSW and providing false verbal tech…it’s off to ethics and interrogation for you, I’m afraid!
“There’s no mention of the impermanence or transitory nature of these supposed gains. Rather, they’re presented as stable gains which, once you’ve attained them, you’ll never be bothered by or have to deal with again.”
Right, Harpoona Frittata; the key operational phrase in Scn is “If it isn’t written it isn’t true”, and not, “If it isn’t written, ANYTHING can be inferred by Scientolgists” as Bob-G did. There is ABSOLUTELY no mention in ANY known HCOB – and I know almost ALL of them having studied all the Tech vols for years! – about anything “impermanent” or “transitory” about the Scn Grades. Of course, the Grades were considered a “Release” and not an “Erasure”, but by “Release” LRH in no way meant that the PC would “Rollercoaster” on the wins/EPs of his Grades, or show any “impermanence”, except by PTSness, “False PTSness” (“Overts and Withholds”), or “BAD auditing” scenarios by the auditor or by Life itself (which covers O/R, Out-lists, Out-int, etc). And in my post, I wasn’t referring to Out-Grade manifestations due to such specific situations that – even though are mere excuses to hide incompetence – at least they are mentioned in HCOBs about C/Sing Repair actions.
I was referring to supposedly “standardly” run Grades, and how the PCs who had no need for such Repair actions STILL manifested All kind of phenomena of their Grades’ EPs being OUT. I was also referring to “Clears” and “OT” where the “impermanence” of a “Release state” could be discarded as the individual allegedly had ALREADY dealt with Erasure. And it is EXACTLY on “Clears” and “OTs” where the Out-Grade phenomena is mostly observed, because Scientologists were always analyzing the behavior of such people because the looked up to them.
“You’re just trying to rationalise the failure of the cult to deliver what it’s promised by delusionally imagining that no promises were made to begin with…shame on you, sir, for not KSW and providing false verbal tech…it’s off to ethics and interrogation for you, I’m afraid!”
Haha, that’s a good one, 🙂 Yeah, Jim Logan ought to Cramm these “Scientologists” into not “alter-ising” the “Tek”, and giving “Verbal Tech”, 😉
The OEC Vol 6 has the Success Story question to be asked the graduate of a course or preclear completion question, one question for each category, and that policy gives a wee bit of Hubbard background.
He intended for the members to be given that bar for having attained something, and it had the double reason of then providing written acknowledgement that could be shown authorities if the authorities wished ‘evidence’ that Scientology was doing supposed “good” in this world.
But the Success Question provides also, inducement to the members to be complicit in this whole operation, and give the operation a pat on the back, when a pat on the back really isn’t deserved.
Hubbard rigs the administrative lines in the churches to USE the failure answers to the Success Questions, to “correct” the student/preclear/staff who caused a failure of positive answers to the Success Questions.
“Handling The Public Individual” policy, and the “Routing Forms, How to Write One” policy, both give Hubbard permanent control over the graduates, to either have “wins” or face correction or ethics for their failure to have “wins” from Hubbard’s courses and auditing.
That is an untenable position for followers of Scientology, if they are doing Scientology “standardly.”
The sad Hubbard choices are “get better and have wins you wish others to have” or face Cramming/Ethics/or have the staff who gave you the training/auditing face Cramming/Ethics for failing to deliver “good” Scientology to you sufficient to cause you to bubble up and praise what you got so highly that you wish others to have it.
It’s a standard that is immoral to enforce, but that standard of participation results is Hubbard’s scapegoat system that keeps any blame from reaching back to Hubbard, that this whole failure of Scientology is NOT his fault, but the participants and staffers’ fault for not attaining uniform “Success Question” positive answers.
Devious scapegoating institutionalized, which weighs on the longer term members who learn to be trained seals to get their next meal in the movement.
I was having the exact same thoughts Chuck. Yet another layer off the onion. Does it ever end? 🙂
chuckbeattyexSeaOrg75to03 – excellent analysis
Regarding “Success Stories, I learned that lesson the hard way. I finished some course. I was asked to write up a success story. I told them the course was ok, but, nothing to write home about. Their anger blew up immediately! I mean, these people were pissed off beyond belief! I guess saying what I did was a slap against Scientology. So… I wrote up success story.
Well Terra’s last article at least had some semblances of truths but this one returns true to form. Firstly WHAT other mental “therapies” (are there that work)? There are EPs listed for Scientology auditing because there ARE (underlined) EPs – in other therapies there are none. Zilch. Nada or whatever the modern terms for nothing are. I have examined hundreds of PCs sitting in Qual and there were some who had not achieved the EP or who red-tagged a session. No one is forcing anyone to “EP” when they haven’t. And the assumption that the reason for all this is that the PC is withholding something was very rarely the case in these instances – it was usually that the process wasn’t run correctly or had not actually EPed. I know – I have been an Examiner (HFA) for years. And so the stressing of this (false) reason of “withholds” by Terra is of course bound to attract the sympathy of those people on here who do have withholds or rather missed withholds and they will all nod heir heads wisely and scoff at the idea (but in their case it is then correct – haha!) And if anyone has faked an EP for himself then what were they doing there in the first place – getting audited for a certificate so they can get back to donating? True, in Miscavige’s Church now the scene is far less results-based which is indicated by the empty Churches these days but that is another matter. The Churches are (now) empty because of out-tech and enforced donating. But the thing is in Scientology the subject is (or was) results-based unlike other therapies (who haven’t got a clue as to what they are doing with the mind).
To (attempt to) deride the idea of an EP and also the only mental therapy that can produce such is again, Terra scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to dig up some sort of “curved” story to satisfy his assumed-now weekly stat output of stories. Why doesn’t he concentrate on the actual goings-on and depredations in the Church and attempt to get those corrected rather than inventing nonsenses and bending facts to suit his particular “cloth”. The Emperor has indeed no clothes with such a story.
Foolproof sez:
“…the thing is in Scientology the subject is (or was) results-based unlike other therapies…”
Bingo! Just as Terra pointed out with a few specific examples of results to be had from grade chart actions. The problem is, although these specific results are outlined as the goal of the processes or rundowns, no such goal is achieved. These states of ‘release’ seem to disappear soon after they are reached. As for ‘clear’ and ‘OT’, I haven’t seen one yet and I’m not going to hold my breath until I do.
From my own experience, I had lots of times I felt great after an auditing session. Blown out or blown away was a common term. This was very short lived I found out. There was no deep seated fundamental change that took place. After leaving the cult, I found myself reluctantly going to a marriage counselor to try and save my marriage. I still had some serious cult-think going on and didn’t trust the therapist because I thought she was an ‘evil psych’ or something similar. It turned out that I often found myself leaving a counseling session feeling good. Not blown away or anything like that. Nothing much happened in those sessions other than just talking to another caring human being who wasn’t pushing me in one direction or another. There were no results or gains promised. To this day I feel that I still got much more from those counseling sessions than from any auditing I received. This is just my personal experience and can’t be measured in any way. A scientologist would probably just relegate me to some lowly status as a sub-human being by calling me a dog pc, no case gain, degraded being weighed down by overts, withholds and evil purposes, to justify the fact that their ‘tech’ doesn’t work as claimed. That’s ok with me.
The bottom-line, indisputable fact is, if the ‘tech’ produced even a fraction of what is claimed, scientology’s only problem would be to keep the teeming masses of people from breaking down the doors demanding services. I guess that as a group, scientology has achieved the level of Grade 1 Release because they sure don’t (and never have) had that problem. They just made it go away.
Well said, Foolproof!
Thanks Spike!
Wow, I FN’ed reading that.
Me too. Thanks, Foolproof.
“Your needle is floating!” Haha! I can’t observe your indicators but let’s just assume that they are good eh? And I can’t or shouldn’t say anything more than that. However, I believe now in Miscavige’s church where they don’t know what an F/N looks like anymore, the “Examiner” gets away with stating “your needle floated” (past tense) as they have spent 2-3 minutes staring at the needle and looking for a persistent F/N which didn’t occur, but an F/N did – 3 minutes ago! Might partly explain all the nonsense one reads on here.
Speaking of end phenomena (EP), I came across an interesting connection. People have pointed out the similarity of the Scientology cross with Crowley’s Tarot cross. What I came across was a connection between Thetan and God.
The early Christian symbol of the fish (Ichthys) was spelled out as follows. Note that the letter Theta was taken as a symbol for God. Theta — the Static — certainly has some godlike properties, and an Operating Thetan (OT) as originally defined was certainly a godlike figure — at cause over matter, energy, space, time, life, and thought both subjectively and objectively.
I (I, Iota) : ΙΗΣΟΥΣ (Iêsoûs) “Jesus”
Χ (KH, Khi) : ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ (Khristòs) “Christ”
Θ (TH, Theta) : ΘΕΟΥ (Theoû) “God”
Υ (U, Upsilon) : ΥΙΟΣ (Huiòs) “Son”
Σ (S, Sigma) : ΣΩΤΗΡ (Sôtếr) “Saver/Savior”
One author characterized Hubbard as a bricoleur — someone who puts together a construction from various diverse and disconnected parts that are available. It does seem to be the case in many ways (e-meter from Jung and Freud, Theta from Greek symbol for God, auditing in part from abreaction therapy, elements of Crowley, cross from Tarot, religious collars for ministers from Catholicism or Anglicanism, Sunday services and calling Scientology a church from Christianity, and various other sources — a cobbler topped with an insane layer of delusion (e.g., “History of Man”) and pseudo-science (e.g., “All About Radiation”).
All, perhaps, toward the ultimate EP of reaching God-hood.
Hubbard was influenced by Crowley, but never actually met him. He was ritual buddies with Parsons. I believe Hubbarx read some of Crowleys writings, and took what he wanted from them, such as cult..ivating a following, then declaring it a church to avoid paying taxes.
In ancient Greek, Theta symbolises death.
GOOD LUCK MIKE & LEAH!!!
$cientology was always a smoke and mirrors operation. Using word salad, false equivalency and straight out lying, the mark is supposed to buy in to the ‘ruin’ that the salesperson has found. It is surprising how often this works, in like 1 out of 500 tries.
One need not be a fool to fall for the patter. Lron and his minions had 35 years to perfect the swindle. It is still one of the most successful, longest running cons out there. It just can’t survive in a world where perfect recall is only a google away.
I was on staff in various Scientology orgs for many years, and a few of them were when I was posted as the D of P in a fairly busy (mid 80’s ASHO Day – 300 – 450 non Purif WDAHs a week).
I’ve seen lots of very happy public pcs. In my time in that HGC, there was only a tiny fraction that did not meet these qualifications for an EP. Very, very few had any problem with them at all.
There are lots of HCOB’s where the characteristics of an F/N are described. Some of them quite general, some rather specific.
But, even in the most specific definitions of an F/N, there is some ambiguity. Even if we were to take the filmed examples of F/Ns from the tech films, there is ambiguity. (Must it be EXACTLY that smooth; that slow? How loose is “loose”.) In filmed sessions, the auditor might give an F/N a pass; the auditor’s case supervisor might OK it, but then here comes a Sr. C/S who inspects the video and it’s an F/N no longer and off everyone goes to cramming.
But, for the longest time, it seemed to be true that the p.c. was more important than the meter.
The auditor would do his job, the pc would cognite, there’d be visible relief, smiles and laughter. More expressive pcs might move their arms around as they were talking and the needle would flail about in consequence. Or, the auditor would know that, even with a rather still pc, there could be a varying grasping and releasing of the cans that would obscure an F/N.
So, the auditor’s figure out that this is the time to calmly regard, listen to, and pleasantly acknowledge whatever the pc said. As the pc’s chatting away, the auditor’s got some bit of his attention reviewing all the information that’s coming in, and he’s evaluating whether he should call it or not. For me, the major bit of that calculation were a couple of things only – were there plenty of good indicators in the Pc and did the needle loosen significantly.
There is even an HCOB that schooled auditors on how some beginning pcs’ needle might be VERY tight and that ANY loosening of the needle might be taken as an F/N, iirc.
But all that got thrown out somewhere about 2001, I think, when someone found some video critique that Ron made for someone’s metering years and years before – like in the mid 80’s. For that person, he described what an F/N should look like and it was taped.
Then around 2001, that critique was exhumed, transcribed, and eventually became the newest and latest definition of an FN – and that was the law from then on. (I can only personally account for up to 2004, when I left, but from talking with others who have remained in longer, I think that this is still the case.)
From that moment on (for auditors auditing in any SO environment, at least, where virtually every session is video’s) the wins of the pc became a second place consideration in the eyes of C/Ses and cramming officers. Auditors who indicated an FN without seeing all the characteristics mentioned in this new HCOB would go to cramming.
The p.c. could have articulated realizations that rivaled the utterings of Lao-Tze, and originated that his eyesight had notably improved. None of that mattered. If the Auditor did not see ALL the characteristics of the newly defined F/N, it would not be indicated.
I audited for a few years in that sort of an environment in an SO RPF. God was it awful. I really think that it is one of the main reasons for the continuing fall of production in Scientology orgs. For every Scientologist, over the years, it’s just been harder harder to “get a win”. Most 60’s and 70’s Scns will make some mention of it being the “good old days”. Well, part of that, I think, was, at the time, Scn execs and staff members were really behind “getting wins” for people, for themselves (and not just for contributions to the org). It USED to be that people getting wins were all over the place!
Now, you can’t even buy one in an HGC.
Very good Daniel.
“…Scn execs and staff members were really behind “getting wins” for people, for themselves (and not just for contributions to the org). It USED to be that people getting wins were all over the place! …” Thanks Dan. That was my experience as well before I made the fatal mistake of going to Flag. At some point (late 70’s? early 80’s?) The goose-stepping-holier-than-thou Sea Org presence moved in with a VENGEANCE and slowly turned the atmosphere away from “gains” and creating a feel good-theta environment to a bunch of hard asses running around in uniforms specializing in punishment, attacks, accusation wrong items enforced items and make wrong for being in Scientology to help yourself.
LRH says ” What do you see,not what do you hear “. I did “see” that in 1978 the Riverside Mission was busting out at the seams with people doing services,and the Mission having 127 staff members when I joined staff in ’78. Forty years later , I see the Clearwater Mission EMPTY. I drive by it twice a day ,one or two cars in the lot. I “hear” DM talk about global expansion.
Nice to see that there are still some stalwart souls who take the time and trouble to comment positively.
As to the F/N thing, Miscavige has simply taken the definition of a persistent F/N and applied that now as an “F/N”. Deliberately destroying Scientology results? Of course it is! I think “instant reads” also got his attention as well and thus that has been “revised” although I haven’t seen the “new” data on that one. Dan Koon did a good article on this (new “F/Ns”) on the scientology cult website. So we have the “minimum 3 swing F/N” thing now (even) at Flag and elsewhere now, which is nowhere stated even in the “new” HCOB I believe and is an RTC added arbitrary to explain away a false premise in the first place.
Seems we are the lucky ones who received auditing before all this nonsense started!
And I wonder with the “new” but false definition how he “got around” the “fleeting F/N” from a 1977 HCOB as I recall? That will be a hard one to explain based on his premise eh? He probably cancelled it as usual. What a dog’s breakfast! RTC hang your head in shame.
foolproof. “Your needle floated !” What a shit. You are so right ! Miscavige has killed the tech with the 3 swings. It’s too painful.
Yes prior to 1982 case gains were available.
Miscavige is a monster. And those who hate scientology have mostly experienced Miscavige’s tech.
Yes, that seems to be the case. And the end result was and is huge wrong indications.
What’s the EP of that? Insanity.
Welcome to Scientology 2017.
May your, and Leah’s, great works be fully credited and acknowledged to the world tonight.
Great post, Terra Cognita. And good luck at the awards tonight, Mike!
Mike, you and Leah break a leg. We have toes and fingers crossed.
TC, excellent as usual. Yes Scientology promises less and less and takes more and more.
Mike, Good luck to Leah and you tonight. Fun Fun Fun!
And we’ll have fun, fun, fun till her Daddy takes the T-Bird away…
Nailed it, which is why, besides the abusive cult-like characteristics of this church, it cannot survive even its simplest bottom-of-the-bridge credibility test. The emperor has been exposed and he is butt naked; the only ones left in are those that refuse to look.
Having said that, the Grades, I found fun and beneficial.
I did too.
I found them fun and beneficial as well. But the EPs really are limited to whatever time you’re in. Not everlasting. Too bad they’re part of the whole package. Counseling on all of those subjects would be beneficial to anybody who seriously took a look at them.
Good luck to you and Leah and the entire Aftermath gang! Wheeeee!
Terra,
At the cost of likely inflating your ego, I have to say,
I have to give credit where credit is due:
Every time I read your posts, I feel better, I feel a little more intelligent.
I gain a few more theta units.
Thanks.
Dio
À brilliant method of conditioning, of hindering one’s ability to observe reality and develop critical thinking. And it’s mainly done by oneself !