Scientology often claims that it does NOT require money before auditing services will be provided. Anyone who has ever been in a scientology org KNOWS this is a lie.
But scientology continues to make this claim, because it makes them sound “humanitarian” and beneficent. It is also one of the lies they foisted off on the IRS, claiming a large percentage of their services were delivered “free of charge.” Of course, they did not mention that “free services” are “introductory” services, the ones designed to get you in the door and sitting in front of a “registrar” who gets you to pay for your first “real” service (still inexpensive compared to what is to come). Or they are free “tape plays” or “Sunday Services” — that nobody attends.
Scientology even claims they have a “Free Scientology Center” where auditing is provided at no charge to charity cases.
Here is how they describe their magnanimous attitude on the scientology website:
But let’s take a look at the actual POLICY of scientology.
What follows is the UNALTERABLE (and unvarnished) truth about how scientology operates. Not the PR spin they want the world to believe.
These are direct quotes from HCO Policy Letter of 9 May 1965 — the boldface is mine:
AUDITING FEES PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT OF PRECLEARS SCALE OF PREFERENCE
There is a definite and positive Scale of Preference for accepting and scheduling preclears (including students sent to Review) for auditing in the HGC and in the Case Cracking Section of the Department of Review.
Last on the list is any person who seeks auditing as a favour “to demonstrate to others what it can do” or “because of importance as a person”. The auditing of someone just because the result would “prove” something or other or because the person has money or power and might donate, by firm policy since 1950, has been relegated to the “circular file” (the waste basket). Giving auditing away to such persons or their friends or children or psychotic brother in the asylum is in fact forbidden. Giving preference in scheduling to such persons is governed, when for pay, entirely by the Scale of Preference. Such bids are a snare and a delusion; it sounds good; it doesn’t work out. Mr. Big takes his place in line with Mr. Little, and the Scale of Preference alone applies.
The person who has to be audited AT ONCE for desperate reasons is also governed only by the Scale of Preference.
The person who will only be audited by a certain or special auditor is also governed entirely by the Scale of Preference (See A).
SCALE OF PREFERENCE
Assignment of Auditor and Preferential Scheduling is governed as follows:
A. Best Available Auditors, earliest possible commencement;
Pcs Paying full rate Cash in Advance with the longest consecutive auditing period purchased. Where two pcs have to be chosen between for the best auditor, the one who has purchased the most auditing in consecutive periods is given the best auditor at the earliest moment. (It is obvious that to get a special auditor one should pay full public rate in cash even when entitled to Professional Rate. Otherwise there may be no pc requested auditor assignments. Buying additional auditing or offering a specified donation in addition to the full rate as per A can also influence the assignment of a requested auditor. The auditor does not have to accept.)
B. Skilled auditor (but not specially requested auditor), early commencement;
Full rate pcs whose credit has proven excellent and prompt by past experience.
C. Good auditor, early commencement;
Pcs paying cash in advance professional rate.
D. Auditor staff available scheduling;
Full public rate pcs with 50% deposit and unknown or not established credit.
E. Interne Auditor and any scheduling convenient to org;
Full public rate pcs requiring up to 75% credit, credit unknown.
F. Any Interne Auditor, and any scheduling convenient to org; Professional rate requiring credit.
G. Any student, any scheduling convenient to org; Total credit at any rate, credit unknown.
H. Students who need practice, cases not supervised except for student check sheet in Examinations, scheduled randomly or by waiting list, charity or pcs on full credit of a pcs unknown nature.
…
It will be found that those who will pay were the most able to begin with and have the greatest value to others. Their worth as persons is greater. Thus good, swift auditing brings up even this value.
I have never thanked myself for giving any concessions on fees or scheduling not based on the above. I can say with complete case histories that giving free service to those who demanded it or sought it has never resulted in any useful gain for Scientology. On the contrary some of our biggest headaches administrationally come from those who continually sought free courses and free auditing.
…
The “the world owes me a living” preclear (or student) is a candidate for the Better Dead Club. There were two branches of this Club, by the wayBetter Dead for their own sakes and Better Dead for the sake of others. Demands by individuals for free service on any pretext should be given a light, airy laugh. It doesn’t do anybody any good, often not even the person who received it.
Real charity cases who never pay are actually hard to find. In Charity Auditing one must always give them a chance to pay.
A Registrar’s matter of fact attitude about paying for auditing or training is a valuable asset. Giving the person a problem about how and what they’ll pay is poor Registraring. Don’t make them choose about paying in full or not paying in full. Just tell them “Go to the Accounts Cashier”. An evil laugh when they advance the idea of some tiny down payment on auditing and a remark, “Well, that would put you on the waiting list and give you a new student,” might be very effective.
Printing up the above preference scale for presentation to falterers on payment might be effective.
This policy letter is not canceled, but it was later modified to eliminate ANY idea that someone did not have to PAY IN FULL BEFORE STARTING any service in scientology. The concept of accepting someone’s “credit” as a promise of future payment was completely canceled (except that one’s credit standing became important when it came to the ability to borrow money from someone else to pay in advance for scientology services).
Money is worshipped in scientology despite the PR they fob off (Hubbard too made Money the “lowest” motivation on his scale, but set up his organization to run exclusively on this). Their motto should be “Scientology: where absolutely nothing is free.”
Away with all this nonsense. Wake up. The Love of God and path to Nirvana and Enlightenment is free of money nonsense, for money nonsense is the root of all kinds of evil.
Hey Mike, I just wanted to let you know that I just wrote to my Congressman and Representative about the tax exempt status of “the church” . Maybe if more people do it, it will wake the IRS up and have a thorough investigation. Thank you for everything that you and Leah do for the families that are out and even the families that are still “in”.
Thank you for doing that. More people doing so might eventually result in action.
Does anyone have a youtube link where I can see a Scientologist perform the “light, airy laugh”?
Never-in question here:
So, there are levels of quality among auditors, with some costing more than others. What differentiates the “best-available” auditor from the “skilled” auditor from the “good” auditor? Aren’t they all basically following a script that they mustn’t deviate from?
If it made sense, they wouldn’t need to be a high-control environment to sell the product…
Getting the victims to accept this sort of illogical and contradictory notions (“$cientology always works!” and “$Flag is better!!!”) is what it is all about. After the victims accept these absurdities, they are ready to commit atrocities (to their bank accounts, to their children, to themselves).
There were/are auditors better than others. Some are more highly trained. Some have more empathy and compassion and communicate better with their preclears (PC). Some just have that special something that you can’t define. A good auditor and a bad auditor affect the E-Meter in different ways. (This is something that is rarely talked about but lends credence to the fact that the E-Meter is not omniscient and also lends credence to a fact I happen to believe that “the E-Meter responds to the amount of ARC in the session'”)
Some PC’s click with certain auditors and “do better” with them so much so that they will (1) request that auditor (for which they might be charged “preferential rates.”) or (2) be assigned that auditor whenever possible.
“…I happen to believe that ‘the E-Meter responds to the amount of ARC in the session'”.
Totally!
??? I NEVER heard of an org offering “free” service. Of course, staff who wanted auditing, which was promoted as a reward for their servitude, were treated as if they were totally out-exchange for even considering they might get training and auditing in their lifetime. Those of us who persevered on the “training route” sometimes, but not always, got co-auditing where they got exactly the quality of student auditor they produced on course. In my experience, there was a real difference in the Flag-trained auditors, even though the checksheets were identical to the lower-classed orgs. There was a real difference doing TRs with a Class 12, for instance.
And that reminds me: HOW can Flag produce Class VIII auditors, as I noticed in passing the other day, when the SHSBC no longer exists?
I’ll affirm too that never once did I receive any auditing or start a course which had not been already paid in full.
(Oh…wait – I was given a free ARC break session once because of having been regged for staff immediately after coming out of an auditing session, feeling great and willing to talk to anyone about anything, if you catch my drift. Well, staff picked up on that and whoa! I was in this little room for hours…had felt so good, didn’t want to be rude or unkind…but the truth was it ruined the auditing for me and month’s later this got spotted and so they “rehabbed” me for free, which was nice of them, I thought at the time. 🙂 )
Nope. No more Class 6 or Class 8 Crs, i.e. until david miscavige produces what LRH really intended in these two courses or until he’s done sucking people dry for Basics or for buildings or for IAS.
There is no state of clear or OT
So “having” trained CS’s or trained auditors means nothing
People reach levels of confusion never achieved by man before
And become arrogant and full of themselves
Scientologists are manipulating each other out of time and money
That’s Scientology
Computer Guy, have you ever been received any Scientology auditing? That’s not a hostile question, by the way. I’m merely curious.
So true Computer Guy
“t will be found that those who will pay were the most able to begin with and have the greatest value to others. Their worth as persons is greater.”
I’m not sure why you would need more than this quote to prove that Co$ is not a charitable or humanitarian organization by any stretch of the imagination. Able to pay = worthy human being. Barf.
I’m with Heinlein: slaves are the most expensive form of employee. Add the costs of upkeep, guarding them, etc. to the low quality of product and slow production, and it’s a net loss, perhaps a loss on the gross level.
Certainly, the conditions they’re kept in is gross. They might not physically be flogged, but mentally and emotionally, they’re beaten down, mistreated, misinformed, and outright lied to.
Jere, you’re talking about NORMAL slaves. People who DON’T WANT to be slaves but are physically forced to be. These people have to be watched and they do slow, poor work unless flogged or something. These type of slaves are very expensive, yes.
Scientology staff and Sea Org, and to a lesser degree Public, on the other hand, are MENTAL slaves. They imprison themselves. Its not a physical slavery because they are legally free to leave at any time. Its mental. They turn over all their power and free will. That’s why Lawrence Wright called his work, “The PRISON of Belief” (emphasis mine). These people willingly work their guts out for low pay and execrable living conditions. They do it willingly.
In awareness, these people are FAR BELOW your mere physical slave. These people think they are free!
At least a normal slave KNOWS he’s a slave! So the Scn staff and Sea Org would have to come UP – WAY UP – to equal the awareness of a merely physically imprisoned slave, who might very well in his mind KNOW that his slavery is only due to physical detainment, and that he DOESN’T want to be there, and SHOULD NOT be there, and that he will break for freedom at the first opportunity.
Anyone watch “Cult s& Extreme Religion” on A & E last night & this afternoon. Seems so similar to “the organization” in that they charge a lot of money for “instructions”…..also try to “rebuild” you into what THEY want you to be…….all eerily similar……. Tonight they’ll show J.W. and sex crimes against children…..that go unreported….that too sounds familiar.
I forgot to add that I find it truly mind boggling and disturbing that NO one has physically SEEN Shelly M for over a decade…..I mean WTF? Really? The “authorities” are going to take the word of someone on the INSIDE of COS that Shelly is “fine and dandy” WITHOUT having even seen her? Then again…how do we trust DM….he could come up with someone who looks enough like her to pass FOR her….
Are ANY of the LEGIT authorities every going to listen to US.
Yes it is mind boggling that the LAPD would take the word of someone that Shelly is alive and well. I’d not only demand to see her but make her do a DNA test too!
Something horrible is going on with Shelly M., and we have no idea. This could bring down the cult, unlike what they did to McPherson.
cops, I doubt that Shelly is being abused. Not because of any morals, ethics or sensibilities on Miscavige’s part, but because he’s afraid. There are too many people, not to mention high profile Leah Remini, who know that he banished his wife. If Shelly were to die the Dwarf would be in big trouble. There would be an investigation too, and the LAPD would be part of that investigation. He has to keep her alive; he cannot afford to let her waste away and die. My 2.
Naw (the cops are corrupt says), like everyone else she is voluntarily where she is at. Brainwashed like the other S.O. members.
I did not see it, but if tonight is Jehovah’s Witnesses, I’ll need to try and watch. That “cult” has affected members of my extended family, although I hope and pray not that way…..
I posted over on Tony’s blog this morning after seeing the show last night. One of the former members “Romy” spoke of how if you want to leave you have to notify them in WRITING…once you’ve voluntarily left….the “still in” members DISASSOCIATE from you, i.e. “disconnection”. To them you are DEAD & they can’t have any contact with you, including even looking at you.
She also spoke of the sexual abuse she endured from an adult member who is “still in” with the abuse starting at age 4 up to her teens & how this person got away with it. Another woman spoke of “hush money” being paid out to silence the victims & how the names of the abusers are never reported to the proper authorities & how the “elders” well…watch for yourself….it sickened me.
test
This is a test post Mike. My comments never appear on ANY Word Press blog any more.
Maybe they don’t like you…just kidding.
Yea. I’ve been commenting blind for several days now.
Asked the web master to look into this.
Word Press updated their software and it seems to have caused problems. Perhaps because he added an “editing” function and that needs to also be updated or something….
The only “Free service” C of S actually gives is that any registrar is glad to consult you for free as to how you can pay them more money for services or in donations for their ideal orgs, TV studios, commemorative DMSMH volumes, Basics sets, WTH packages, etc etc.
PS 4th word ‘that’ shd be ‘it’?
“Scientology: Where absolutely nothing is free.” Truer words were never spoken.
Their worth as persons is greater.
The essence of Scientology’s ideological evil in a nutshell.
A good reference book along this line is Fractured Journey by Chris Shugart.
A Personal Account of 30 Outrageous Years in the Church of Scientology.
“An evil laugh when they advance the idea of some tiny down payment on auditing and a remark, “Well, that would put you on the waiting list and give you a new student,” might be very effective.”
He was so friendly eh?
Man’s Best Friend. Hiphiphoray.
Don’t laugh, it could happen to you too. Doesn’t pay to take a short cut.
wOw. I always knew that $cientology was always about your money and how they want it, but it’s nice to see actual LRH policy guidelines to that effect. I really enjoy those.
I was going to say “can you imagine a church writing something like this?” but then i remembered the prosperity gospel and the current megachurch trend…so never mind. 🙂
“I can say with complete case histories that giving free service to those who demanded it or sought it has never resulted in any useful gain for Scientology.” In this, and most ‘cases’, Gain for $cientology really means Lron’s cut of the business. And a business it is.
Lron is trying to establish the concept of the ‘valued customer’ and to monetize the time of the ‘best’ auditor. That is just another type of snob appeal.
From my decades in the cult I know the emphasis has always been on the almighty dollar. The only “service” never charged for was a visit to the ethics officer. But but in later years these always culminated in solicitations for a donation of some sort. Buy a bunch of books for some PR campaign, raise one’s membership status, and so on.
Mike, thanks for showing us the Preferential Scale; never knew it existed. My last service was at flag where I was given “in training” student auditors on their internships even though I’d paid full asking price for auditing years in advance. Disgusting that I was relegated to nearly the bottom of the scale even though I’d paid about $150k up front. One of the student’s command of English was so poor I finally protested but got only the next available student.
I conclude; they already had my money so preference didn’t matter one iota. I mean, what was I going to do, walk away and leave all that on account?
Sorry Mike I am a bit tired but where is this thing about donations(without a purchase) did I miss it? I did catch however “Paying full rate Cash in Advance with the longest consecutive auditing period purchased.
PURCHASED??? BUYING? This is policy? Was this exact Policy shown to the IRS during the quest for tax exemption? Or is it on the hidden data line? Is it in the green volumes?
ps The word IT is missing in your first line.
Mike…I cannot understand how the IRS lets them get away with paying no taxes!! What would it take to get their tax exempt status taken away? As a resident of Pinellas County, it galls me that this cult gets away with this.
Thank you Mike. I love your blog.
Yes indeed; a business and a scam.
DM will stop at nothing to continue the ponzi schemed LRH started with scio. Lying is justified and beneficial to the person at the top – the top blood sucker DM!
Dear Mike. Let me dissent. Slaving is always free!
Really? I’ll do it! I mean, if slaving is free, why not!
I was aware of the payment policy and followed it whenever I received Scientology services.
There was a charge on a recent parishioner’s statement stated that I owed almost $4,000 for a loan given to me 30 years ago for auditing from the church (I never heard of such a thing). I was not even near a COS at that time.
Also, there was some $385 on account for auditing services that I had not used.
I sent several letters to remove the fraudulent negative balance on my account and asked for a refund for the auditing services that I was never going to use.
Scientology stood their ground and refused to remove the fraudulent negative balance on my account. Furthermore, the church took the $385 and applied it to a public tape play which also never happened. I indicated to them that I did not authorize such a payment (another fraud) nor would I ever pay $385 to listen to (or even purchase) a tape public or otherwise.
So, I contacted Consumer Protection agencies and AGs of Florida and California.
Scientology answered by saying that the negative balance was a clerical error and that the $385 was a donation since it was a religion. Case closed.
I consider myself lucky since I know that there are many that cannot get tens of thousands of dollars refunded for services never taken for which there is no time limit according to LRH.
Peabody, The Scientology Money Project dot comm has a survey concerning CofS refunds. It would be good of you to contribute your experience. Thx for your story.
At this point there isn’t much hope of taking down Scientology with legal because of so few players and not enough money.
But there is hope with a class action suit because there are more of us and too few of them and the prize could be billions.
Peabody, I think what happened in your case was that someone needed to get his GI stat up (and nowadays everyone in the SO has a GI stat; not just the registrars.) So they just fabricated something in order to get your money on account. Same thing only with larger numbers happened to me. I got it straightened out with one treasurer and had his senior write a note in the folder and give me a copy that the $2,000 or more was due me in auditing hours. When I got to Flag for auditing, they didn’t want to have to deliver that $2,000 in auditing that was owed me so they figured a way to say not only did they NOT owe me that money or time in auditing (even though their own treasurer and his senior both agreed and put it in writing in my folder), but they went one step further and tried to tell me that I owed them and I was out exchange. They tried to brow beat me into that one so that I would propitiate to them. I refused. But I knew they were crooked and scamming me and I got out not too long after that.
I watched an old 2006-08 Mark Bunker vid in which he was educating two Scn protesters picketing his house. They showed up within days of Mark’s very first filming of a Scn activity. Their picket posters read “Mark Bunker (photo) is not all he seems” and the reverse “Mark Bunker (photo) is a Religious Bigot” They also handed out flyers with (name) (photo) (half a page of crapola). Mark had a good spiel for the two picketers even way back then. He told them of Xenu, body cooties, and a $250,000 – $360,000 price tag just to get to OT 3; he mentioned cherch documents that were presented in evidence by the cherch itseelf, thus becoming public fare. One picketer heard so much entheta (though it was all the truth) that he turned and walked away, and didn’t return.
The remaining naive poster-holder held out for awhile, moving down the street aways, but Mark stayed with him. The poor guy had nothing but stock and specious non-answers to Mark’s questions and comments. Finally, after Mark told him the huge cost of OT 3, the young Scientologist huffed sarcastically and asked Mark “do you really think all those people at the Celebrity Center have that kind of money?”
They were sad picketers, but at least they were polite and non-aggressive. I think Mark might have got through to both of them on some level.
If the motivational scale is (highest to lowest) duty, personal conviction, personal gain and money, then how the hell did it get flipped upside down in Scientology? The top person gets $ millions and the rest pay their life savings and/or work as a slave for no money.
“The auditing of someone just because the result would “prove” something or other or because the person has money or power and might donate, by firm policy since 1950, has been relegated to the “circular file” ”
Yes, that policy was needed because a person who is independent enough to observe without being invested in the Cult always found that the “tek” didn’t work and was all a fraud.
I remember a Robin Williams quote from the ‘80s: “Cocaine is God’s way of telling you you are making too much money.”
With a nod to Robin, I offer this:
Scientology is God’s way of telling you you will never be able to make enough money.
When I completed grades I- IV at the Miami Org in the early 1980’s, I audited more than a dozen PC’s for free at various stages of the “bridge”. I was in great demand and the registrars used me to move people onto higher paid services. Most of my PC’s were working class people who could not even come close to paying for an intensive. I remember one person in particular who pressured the registrar for more sessions. I was not really a serious Scientologist at the time but more curious about Hubbard’s theories. After forty years, I think the reason for my popularity as an auditor had little to do with Hubbard’s core technology. I was in a very good financial situation at the time, well dressed, and very kind to those who were less fortunate. These people were responding to humanitarian values because someone was just listening to them with kindness. In fact, I considered “Keeping Scientology Working” as a mere suggestion. Hubbard’s auditing tech was very rough and it seemed illogical to me. My best results on PC’s were in the first and second sessions. People who were eager and who had been built up by the registrars seemed to just float through the initials sessions on a cloud. I observed paid PC’s getting more and more negative as they experienced more auditing. My own experience with Scientology is that “Life Repair” in 1972 by a kind auditor was the highlight of my experience with Scientology. By contrast, the worst possible experience I had with Scientology was on OT VIII in 1988. Hubbard tried to go where he was not qualified. Hubbard studied a bit of Occult and tried to “show off” in his anti-Christ rant. In the end, Hubbard’s lack of depth caught up with him and he wrote a document which proved his confusion beyond a doubt.
“I was in a very good financial situation at the time, well dressed, and very kind to those who were less fortunate.These people were responding to humanitarian values because someone was just listening to them with kindness.”
George, you just stated the precise factor that got me INTO Scientology. This was back in the early 80s.
Except for having read Dianetics I knew nothing about it or Scientology. I was not reaching for Scientology and by that time not only was I in a lot of emotional pain and grief that I couldn’t shake off, but I also had a wall up about people who seemed overly eager to help me. From trying various things I had found that overly zealous people and groups were just snake oil salesmen,
However, , as opposed to Hare Krishnas, ranting Bible Belters and other Jesus Freaks, the intense, bug-eyed Werner Erhardt Est fanatics, Moonies and other loonies, the people in my org were normally dressed and appeared normal in every way, AND they LISTENED to me – wonder of wonders, they were, or appeared to be, INTERESTED in what had happened to me, in the soap opera that had been my life, and when, because I was not used to sharing grief, when I would ramble or become incoherent, they overlooked that, and kept listening and acknowledging me. They were kind – so very kind!
Again, knowing zilch about Scientology, having only read DMSMH, at that point TOTALLY suspicious of anything that purported to “help” I was taken with these people, I just wanted to be around them. In fact, I considered finding a group like this to be a kind of miracle.
Without knowing anything about them or what they were selling, and without having any faith at all that anything could or would make me feel better again, happy again, THIS is what drew me in.
Back in those days, it was called, “Caring for the person in front of you”. LRH did, I believe, write this,somewhere but I couldn’t tell you where to find it.
That said, whether he wrote it or not, it definitely worked on me!
Aquamarine,
Thanks for the feedback. It makes me feel that I was not alone and that my time as an auditor had some meaning. I was recruited by the Moonies but never joined even though I was “love bombed” almost beyond belief by some sharp, beautiful women. Somehow I saw through all of that because it seemed staged. The Moonies were easy to reject after I heard the lecture about Abraham and the cycle of truth. Having spent a year in Korea in the 60’s, I also had a very good idea of the fringe element of the South Koreans. They were converted to Christianity by a strange
group that burned temples and beheaded Buddha statues in their spare time. Somehow I figured out that Moon had to be a wacka-doodle. When I got a new fresh PC to audit, I always felt in control. People just seemed to respond if I was kind to them. Personally, I thought Hubbard’s technology was very rough and lacked meaning in some cases. When I audited a very intelligent lawyer in Miami, he liked the initial sessions. When I started to get into advanced Hubbard, he lost interest. He said that Hubbard’s commands were going in different directions. As long as these people could talk and tell their story, the needle floated. But when Hubbard’s words were used in a series, they lost interest. I have heard similar stories from many who were in. I will never forget the individuals I met in the cult. Most were kind and did not have a clue about what was in store for them at the upper end of the bridge. I finally concluded after OT VIII that even if Hubbard’s Xenu story was totally true, Hubbard was still very, very wrong in his approach. Hubbard’s lack of compassion was just more proof of his duplicity.
George, thank you for sharing even more of your history. Sounds very much to me like you were my kind of auditor!. The ability to be kind and patient – when it comes to auditing I just can’t put a price on those qualities, they are invaluable. Even simple listening with these qualities can help heal someone in distress. Thank you for the way you helped people. Your instincts were good ones, and guided you correctly while in, and also let you know when it was time to get out!
“Hubbard tried to go where he was not qualified”
Where exactly was Hubbard qualified?
“The Better Dead Club.” Nice guy. But this does feed into the compassionless mindset of the whole group and it’s not just this one statement that molds this empathy-free group.
Policy seem reasonable. Counselling is a business like any other.Scientology operating like a (tax free)counselling business does not seem objectionable.
Grades are a pretty reasonable counselling service and communication courses are not up to Dale Carnegie or Tony Robbins other levels but they are always useful.
BTW 97% of people who paid for counselling or coaching or mentoring last year said they were was happy with the service.(data international coaching federation)
In my opinion I can think of at least 5 Scientology techniques who would make it in the top 40 compared to other techniques from other systems.
Problem: is if the space cooties get introduced,evil psychs must be thought,billion year contracts get signed based on rather average services with sometimes a real good one the poor weak donkey cannot draw the heavy wagon.
Dale Carnegie and Tony Robbins are not tax exempt “religious” organizations.
The IRS will never admit they were in error granting tax exempt status to DM and scientology, they’re afraid of DM and his attorneys and don’t want personal lawsuits filed against them again by DM. The IRS terrorists have been terrorized, ironic isn’t it.
Rod M, the CoS CANNOT file personal lawsuits against those people. They are immune.
I can’t speak to Tony Robbins because I know nothing of how he does his thing directly. I have, however, know of two people who took Dale Carnegie classes and both benefitted from the training. They are expensive, and I can’t say they’ll work for just anyone.
I suspect they help plenty of people. They have been around for a while. Self-affirmation is a pretty effective technique for many.
It’s more than that. Self-affirmation doesn’t cure a mumbling problem, as in one of the cases I know of personally.They teach effective communication techniques, and they also recommend Toastmasters for people who want to improve their public speaking skills still further after taking their course.
Because they knew that counselling wasn’t religious and didn’t have the funding nor the vicious tactics used by Scientology to cave in the IRS.
Other religions have tried after Scientology’s success, but failed because they had no idea of how much energy it takes to challenge a Federal agency and win.
It’s extremely objectionable that a for-profit business is being subsidized by taxpayers by hiding under the cloak of religion. I don’t pay my taxes so this dumb cult can horde billions of dollars and not do a damn thing to help people in need.