This is the bleat they repeat over and over. “We stand for everyone’s human rights” and “we protect the rights of everyone to practice the religion of their choice” — what they don’t say out loud is the rest of the sentence: “UNTIL it is inconvenient for us.”
One need look no further than the recent California Appeals Court decision in the Masterson case.
Tony Ortega covered the decision at the Underground Bunker
It held in part (emphasis mine):
Individuals have a First Amendment right to leave a religion. We hold that once petitioners had terminated their affiliation with the Church, they were not bound to its dispute resolution procedures to resolve the claims at issue here, which are based on alleged tortious conduct occurring after their separation from the Church and do not implicate resolution of ecclesiastical issues. We issue a writ directing the trial court to vacate its order compelling arbitration and instead to deny the motion.
This case involves both petitioners’ First Amendment rights to leave a faith and Scientology’s right to resolve disputes with its members without court intervention. When applied to a dispute that arose after petitioners left the faith, and which can be resolved on neutral principles of tort law, we find petitioners’ right to leave the faith must control.
As Scientology puts it, “An ‘irrevocable’ agreement to ‘forever’ waive civil proceedings and submit to Scientology Ethics and Justice Codes in ‘any dispute’ with Churches of Scientology is a condition for participation in the religion.” It argues that this agreement should be enforced like any other agreement. Enforcing this provision without regard to petitioners’ First Amendment rights would mean that if the Church or a Church member committed any intentional or negligent tort against a former member of the Church, that former member would be bound by Scientology dispute resolution procedures regardless of the fact that the member had left the Church years, even decades, before the tort. In effect, Scientology suggests that one of the prices of joining its religion (or obtaining a single religious service) is eternal submission to a religious forum – a sub silencio waiver of petitioners’ constitutional right to extricate themselves from the faith. The Constitution forbids a price that high.
But the individual’s right to practice the religion of their choice (ie, not scientology) was not favorably to scientology’s position. So, they claim this was a travesty of injustice and they were unapologetic about it. One of their numerous attorneys was quoted in the New York Post:
Hey scientology, your hypocrisy is showing once again. And it’s not subtle. And you are trying to hide it like you usually do by complaining that treating scientology for what it is — a bully trying to enforce its religious belief on those who no longer wish to participate — is harming OTHER religions. Such a tired ploy. No real religion would dare try the stunts you do.
The depths of scientology bs are as yet untapped, as you prove at least once a week.
LOL! “Disparate treatment”. No, EQUAL treatment. No org is allowed to demand partisan arbitrators.
And yet the FZ and the Indies are continually discriminated against by the CoS and labelled “squirrels”, “degraded beings” and “suppressives” – simply for practicing their faith as they see fit. The CoS admitted to sending a “squirrel buster” goon squad to a practitioner’s home to spy, intimidate and harass both him and his family. They targeted his wife, sending sex toys to her place of work. The ultimate purpose was to make their lives enough of a “living hell” so that they’d stop practicing scientology outside the church’s orbit. Some would argue, they succeeded.
It’s a strange kind of absurd to think this church, notable for its long history of lies and abuses, still believes the public won’t notice when it propagates this kind of bs.
In the Catholic Church, sometimes priests and nuns want to undo their vows. It is an arduous process, but it never involves stalking or harassment. It’s even a lengthy process, a lot like a divorce but at least, it’s peaceful.
More pea brained lawyers practicing insanity. Fifty years ago we would not have had a Supreme Court justice who was obviously a drunken ethnic rogue in his college years going after women. It does not surprise me that money is the key motivation for these hopeless souls. Western culture is filled with lies about religion so they could only be protected by the First Amendment. So be it. I met Dave thirty five years ago. He was a real dud. His picture today clearly shows that today his mind can be clearly read. All you need is a little Blavatsky Occult. Thirty five years ago I hedged my bet in Scientology by buying real estate in the Tampa area. Hey Dave I just cashed it in and even with taxes and expenses, I covered my $136,000 cash investment and inflation in Hubbard’s false church.
Religious institutions singled out for disparate treatment under contract law? As a lawyer, Wm Forman should know better. But of course, he does and he is blatantly lying!
If anything, scientology maintains its religious fiction–per hubbard, the “religion angle”– in order to enjoy such “disparate treatment.” Namely, the “freedom” to avoid taxes on “donations” for goods and services (something no other religion gets away with) and labor laws. In fact, they tried to even get Fair Game enshrined as a religious ritual (while claiming that Fair Game did not even exist out of the other side of their mouth).
As Forman well knows, there are legal limitations on contracts when they are found to be too broad, one-sided or unconscionable. As he and his shady employer both know, this ruling does NOT create disparate treatment. If anything, it does the opposite: It puts limits on “disparate treatment” and brings at least some of the cult’s nefarious dealings back in line with what can be recognized as proper contract law.
JustI had a right to leave; IN A BOX. (Actually it would have likely been a body bag) .
After I was sent off of the Freewibds and my then wife was informed by Captain John Michael ( Mike) Napier that my death was imminent and that she should ” End Cycle” on me. He told her that nothing could be done for me. (I had full-blown AIDS from a bad blood transfusion in the ship’s home port Curacao 13 years earlier in 1989. ) It was well known at the time that some of the blood products were contaminated with HIV and other viruses. But that is not my point.
Since my death was expected, ( for no good reason as they had decent meds for HIV by that time) the Captain understandably refused to allow my then wife to leave the ship to help me. I understand his point of view. My wife was one of 4 United States Coast Guard iicensed Black women . Marine Chief Engineers) Of course, they needed her mainly for that piece of paper, I e. the license. after 13 years of repairing virtually every piece of equipment in the Engine Room, and there are hundreds; I knew at least 5 it 10 times what she knew about the Freewibds ER. I actually understand his rational. If someone from the ship had come to me and said: “Bill, the Captain and the Chief Engineer and other execs have thought it over and determined that the Greatest Good for the Greatest Number of Dynamics is for you to die so that we can keep your wife and her certs” I may well have agreed to die. I was surprised to make it off the ship alive as it is.
It just so happened that my wife wanted me to live, probably More than I wanted to live for myself. And the thing that I find incredible is that an S.O. member is expected to make things go right, no matter how tough.
I did that in the 23 years I was in the S.O. If Scientology did not work I would have dead for many years before I got out of the S.O.
How could they have expected me to just lay down and die?
( Continued)
in the S.O. one is expected to make things go right; and I knew that they had no replacement for my post. 5 years after I left there, I was informed that they had still not posted anyone to replace me. I was told ” No- one could possibly replace you , Bill” Now, I do not know if that was the God’s honest truth or total bullshit; but I do know that if no-one is responsible for repairing the machinery eventually you will enevitably get to a point where nothing works.
Now, I canno’t claim that I did it all myself, no-one could do that. But you assign the best person for
the post and get them to make it go right or die trying.
That is what I did. I was willing to die if necessary to get my post done. I could give examples but I prefer to accept the praise of others if and only if they feel like
giving any.
Now the HIV did not merely destroy my immune system. Now I imagine that most of you have never even heard of the many diseases one gets after HIV has destroyed your immune system. The reason you have never heard of these diseases as that a person with a normal immune system never gets these particular diseases. So they are not well known. An example is that HIV damages the heart. Now, the medicos almost discovered this by accident. Your average HIV / AIDS corpse never gets an autopsy. Sort of like the fact that I had to 8C my own Fitness Board. There no members in the S.O. that have medically been declared dead by medical doctors. How many of you have heard about a wife file for divorce from her dead husband?
Since the only Right Arm Captain in the Sea Organization John Mike Napier told my then wife that I would be dead soon; ( And That Was 20 years ago!) there was no need or desire to hold an FB. That could be Dev-T Developed Traffic. Just hold off a while until he is Dead. Hell, by the time the FB is held and the issue written up and sent for approval up-lines it will probably be moot as he will surely be dead by then.
Now I am still trying to explain why I am still alive, or maybe even justify my continued life. Hopefully, I will finish that soon.
Wow, Bill! That was an amazing story! Sorry you went through all that with the Fartwinds. Good luck in all that you do. Don’t know your religious preference but, as a Salvationist I will simply say, Lord bless.
ByThank you, Chuck and Alcoboy. That was no more than a quarter of my story. I have found that when I write a long piece it often disappears before it makes it to the blog
Now I mentioned that HIV damages the heart. Now WOGS are not that different from the S.O. in one respect. Once an AIDS guy is dead they dig a hole and toss the corpse in and cover it up or send it into the ovens.
But eventually some poor dumb bastard happened to get an autopsy.
They found that his heart was damaged, specifically the left ventricle pumped less blood than it normally would have. This was no big deal as the guy was already safely dead.
But what about the poor bastards who are not quite dead yet?
As for myself, my heart pumps about a quarter of the normal amount of blood. I had an echocardiogram, which is bacisally an ultrasound of the heart and my immediate thought was” That is the heart of a dead man. That’s not pumping anything, that is just wiggling a little bit on the edges. I have had a number of heart procedures and I for some reason am still alive. My (ejection fraction with is the percentage of blood expelled from the left ventricle with each beat is 10 to 15 percent. A normal heart produces 55 to 70 percent ejection fraction. So my heart pumps less than a quarter of the blood a normal heart would. This causes other problems for instance the kidneys do not get enough blood flow to remove enough water from the blood. Eventually you get too much liquid in the system and the heart cannot pump that and just gives up.
whoa, great story Bill Straass.
Scientology impairs, exploits, discards, heartlessly.
Pitiful this group attracts any new followers. Only those who’ve not looked into Scientology’s malevolence and debris trail, stumble and fall for Scientology’s lying promotion and false claims of “Success.”
It dawned on me that all of their “Success Stories” are really “Successfully Brainwashed Stories.”
Is there any chance your ex might eject?
(Another thing in hindsight for me, is noticing that the people who hold Scientology together today were capable to begin with, and did essentially “real world” jobs in the movement holding it together with their innate pre-Scientology skills and abilities.
They are the ones propping Scientology up, mouthing Hubbard’s false claims and “Successfully Brainwashed Stories” testimonials of the Hubbard quackery pseudo-therapy and exorcism snipe hunting operation.
To paraphrase a line from an old Goon Show episode, The Scarlet Capsule (send up of Quatermass and the Pit, 6 parts, 1958 – 59):
“Hold $camology up to the light, not a brain in sight.”
As the whole racket continues to shrink and become ever more irrelevant the more strident and pathetic $camology sounds. They have pretty much turned into the crazed grotty food encrusted cellar dweller that we have seen in many a book and film barking at the universe which, frankly, doesn’t give a shit.
If a member of STAND wants to find a hater all one has to do is look in a mirror.
This statement you made is true. Ed Parkin was OSA, he’s been relieved temporarily, he’s either on the RPF or “off post” in any event.
The training Ed did, if you read the Hubbard training for Ed’s career, you have the evidence of what you stated. The OSA materials train OSA staff to be haters, and to produce these counter attack narratives, and the OSA staff have no option to not do that.
Hubbard’s rules/laws require their OSA staff organize and implement this whole Hubbard section of his writings to attack their “enemies.”
It’s a diversion off of Hubbard’s own deeper flawed quackery and Hubbard’s mental ill health.
Hubbard died unsuccessfully employing his own OT 7 mass exorcism procedures on himself, and he admitted he’d failed, at least superficially he admitted he’d failed. (I would bet this is par for the course of a quack crackpot who built an empire of sales of his quackery, and then admits woefully he failed, and then does not share his personal admission of failure, lest it really gets to him that he was a much more massive failure than what really he was willing to admit to.)
I don’t understand why captain Misgavige is so worried about this. Why waste time and money on lawyers. Wouldn’t all he need to do is call in all his OTs with their super powers and just do their postulate thingy to make this just go away?
🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
Haven’t you seen vedio of fight between Super humans, both of them resort to yelling, shouting cursing and last but not the least used Iphone and Andriod phone as magical wand.
LOL Mark, well, I guess that would be another way to go.
> “Every church, temple, and mosque should be troubled by this decision as it singles out religious organizations for disparate treatment under contract law.”
This actually brought something to mind.
Apply their exact case details to a non-religious organization. Let’s use a college as an example. Imagine someone signs up for a class and is asked to sign a legal document including an arbitration clause. Every class they sign up for, they sign another of these. Maybe they become a Teacher’s Aide for a while and sign a more extensive contract. Eventually, though, they stop attending the school. Maybe they’re expelled, maybe they simply stop taking classes.
Some years later they say or do something that is negative toward the school, but not illegal. The school retaliates with a whole series of criminal actions – harassment, stalking, and worse. They bring charges against the school for those criminal activities. The school tries to claim that must be handled by way of arbitration, because years ago those former students signed a contract. Do they get away with that claim?
Arbitration clauses have long been treated as separable, meaning that one can void the rest of the contract, but that clause still applies to events within the term of the contract. There’s even precedent for the clause (and contract stipulations) to apply to certain things that occurred before the contract was entered into. However, “… in the absence of any agreement of the parties, future disputes that are unrelated to the terminated contract itself will not be covered by the arbitration agreement.” (https://www.acerislaw.com/does-an-arbitration-clause-survive-the-termination-of-a-contract/#:~:text=The%20effect%20of%20an%20agreement,or%20invalidity%20of%20a%20contract.)
Basically, the argument the church’s attorney is making claims a disparity, when the truth is that it brings parity. A religious contract with an arbitration clause cannot be applied to events after the contract was ended, the same as a non-religious contract.
The real reason “religious freedom” came into this at all was an attempt by Scientology to suggest that joining a religion is permanent and life-long, giving the religious group authority over you even if they declare you non-members.
The court rightly justified First amendment rights, it was long due.
It has no impact on main stream religion ( Judaism, Christianity, Islam,Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism) as one is allowed to follow them on sliding scale from being liberal to moderate to conservative, as long it won’t effect fellow citizen constitutional rights.
Neither one needs to get registered or become member or pay annual dues , to be follower of main stream religion.
In Canada , we have Charter of Human rights which guarantees same rights to every citizen irrespective of color, ethnicity, language and religious belief.
It gurantees right to seek justice and any contract to restrict it , considers as void contract.
Hypocrisy? Disingenuousness? Nah, straight out lying. Lying bastards who lie. And the CO$ will appeal and appeal and appeal. All in the hope that a higher court will over turn that decision. Well Clams, no such luck, get out your melted butter and hot sauce, its Clam Bake time!
Pretty sure no other “[c]hurch, temple or mosque” needs to worry about this decision as they aren’t busily stalking former members.
Hubbard also says that many people “should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind” in a disingenuous distinction with human rights, allowing his followers to apply situational ethics and treat others with the sort of callous, even cynical disregard that lead Hannah Arendt to coin the term “banality of evil” in her book Eichmann in Jerusalem.
Scientology can both then crow about “human rights” – while also believing in the fascist construct that those who get in the way of the rights of those deemed more worthy, are subject to being dealt with by any means up to and including wide scale killing and extermination:
“In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind, because by abusing those rights he brings into being arduous and strenuous laws which are oppressive to those who need no such restraints.”
along with
“Honest People Have Rights, Too”
and then also
“There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow.“
“Honest People Have Rights” is truly a writing that is so revealing of Hubbard.
It deserves a serious academic take down.
In real life, Scientology’s legal positions violates this.
Hubbard is endlessly ripe for dissecting how foul his mentality was and how foul continuing Scientology doctrines which Hubbard disallowed ever being changed cause the continuing newbie followers to be left holding Hubbard’s foul bag of quackery and pseudo-therapy/Xenu’s-“body-thetans”-exorcism-snipe-hunting. And blaming everyone but Hubbard for all the flaws and failures of the doomed quackery pseudo-therapy/exorcism. Hubbard always blamed everyone else, and the members have to do the same.
I know of no religion that would suggest that a member/past member can not take a crime committed by another member to the police but must take it to the church/religious authority.
At least a genuine religion. If it is a criminal complaint, which this is, it belongs in a criminal court not in a church Kangaroo Court.
But that is just me.
and speaking of which, if a “church”(1) victim were to take a crime committed by a fellow “church” victim to the police, the “church” reserves the right to exclude the former (by now ex-) victim whilst at the same time claiming that all grievances need to be handled according to the contract signed.
Riiight.
(1) in the case of the criminal organisation known as teh “church” of $cientology
It’s not just you, Safety Guy. You nailed it.
Arbitration laws are questionable enough in and of themselves, but applying them to a criminal matter is really stepping over the line.
To successfully do so would undermine the rule of law and every American’s constitutional rights.
The expensive white shoe law firms who recommended this tact at the request of David Miscavige should hang their heads as attorneys at law.
As the Bridge practically never ends… or better, you cannot leave the church and his faith… you are always under the rules of them… That is practically what Ethics says… You should not leave a friend in emergency alone. Must stay with them. Must. I do not know somebody who did not went into trouble with the church… which is very interesting, because – it is always your fault. Now, what?