Someone sent this Instagram post to me recently. It is the perfect example of scientology saying one thing publicly to be “acceptable” (Hubbard called this an “acceptable truth”) and what they actually believe and practice. As you may have noticed, they also make a big deal about celebrating Christmas but do not believe in Christ. They also claim you can be a scientologist and any other religion but that is a lie that was disproven when asked about it by the IRS and admitted it was not true (it’s an indicia of a real religion that it’s a single faith – you are not both Catholic and Protestant, ChristIan and Jew, Muslim and Sikh etc) – yet they still say it in their public relations pitches.
Scientology says anything to try to appear acceptable, normal and sucker people into walking in the door.
The subject of sexual orientation is very clearly delineated in the “scripture” of scientology as dictated by L. Ron Hubbard. He decreed that homosexuality was a “low tone” that is dangerous to be around. That it equates to sexual perversion. That such people should be avoided. And looked down upon.
I covered the specifics in an earlier post Scientology Homophobia.
Scientology famously supported California’s Proposition 8, an anti-gay measure, which resulted in Paul Haggis leaving scientology in disgust (See Lawrence Wright’s brilliant New Yorker article The Apostate).
Other religions, as despicable as their anti-gay positions may be, at least have the conviction to stand by their beliefs. If you ask the Westboro Baptist’s if they stand by their disgusting “God Hates Fags” chants they will not tell you “we welcome everyone, that’s just how we roll”…
Scientology believes “Hubbard Hates Fags” but will try to persuade the LGBTQ community to come in to see if they can get some money out them and then eventually audit them to “raise them up the Tone Scale.” By doing so, (and this is the “purpose” of auditing in scientology) they will move up from being “chronically 1.1” they will no longer “dramatize those characteristics.” Some Christians believe they can “pray the gay away” – it is scientology doctrine that auditing will move you up to a better state (higher tone) where you will no longer be gay.
Scientologist will argue that Hubbard wrote this in the 1950’s when society viewed homosexuality differently. It’s a very flawed, but very scientology thing to say. Suddenly Hubbard’s “tech” is based on what is acceptable in society and not the thoroughly researched truths about life and the path to eternity? It can’t be both. The Bible is much older than Science of Survival and they don’t use that cop out that it’s an old book. The word of God and the word of Hubbard are timeless.
I hope you don’t mind Mike that I’m posting at the top again. I think it’s important to have this perspective when listening to Foolproof and Marildi promote that Scientology accepts all religions –
Sure, anyone calling themselves anything can join Scientology in the beginning.
But here is the question that Marildi and Foolproof can never address honestly:
Find me one long term Scientologist Hindu that wakes up in the morning, chants mantras, meditates and practices yogic techniques, meditates on the spiritual eye in the forehead.
They’ll find none
Find me one Buddhist that goes to meditation retreats and meditates 10 hrs a day that is on course or getting auditing. Or is even between services.
They’ll find none.
They are liars.
Find me one Scientology Christian that goes in hands and knees every morning and night and offers love to God and surrenders body mind and soul to Christ.
They’ll find none
They are liars
Scientology says that they accept all religions. That’s true, they accept them into becoming Scientologists and then slowly boil the frog until they are convinced that what they believed and practiced was either from implants or part of some evil galactic control mechanism.
They give lip service to inclusion and tolerance. But it is only an acceptable truth they use to garner trust.
And then…………. THHHWWWAAPP!
Taking the cheese triggers the Scientology mouse trap on the neck.
Here’s one I can’t wait for Farakan to discover:
Maybe someone can find the reference.
Hubbard says on a tape or in writing that the sacred Kaaba of the Muslims is a dramatization of an implant and everyone circumambulating the black structure is keyed into an implant.
It would be great if that can be found and sent to NOI.
“By their fruits ye shall know them”
Lies, this is the soul of Hubbard and his followers.
These people represent a metaphysical evil. A metaphysical darkness.
Scientology is evil.
P.S.
Find me one, just one record of a gay marriage in Scientology.
Just one ☝️
There are none.
They are liars.
This sounds like Sunday Service. Hell and damnation. And btw marildi has extensive knowledge of other philosophical practices. I had interesting conversations with her on Marty’s blog, particularly about nondualism which is an area of mutual interest.
No Richard, it sounds like two psycho, pathological liars being fried. marildi has shown her criminal side when siding with people who attacked children abused in the cult who came forward to tell the world.
I agree .
I would love nothing more than for Leah Remini to contact me. I lived in Clearwater back in the mid to late 90’s and experienced first hand, on numerous occasions, how the cult of Scientology treats gays. I have never let how people treat me or what they say about me being gay get to me but, this cult is ruthless and evil.
Bubble Bot definition:
A person caught in an ideological bubble like Scientology, whose mind is a programmed robotic reactivity of delusional doctrines, whose guru is usually a Malignant Narcissist.
Bubble Bots equate hostility and hate as spiritual power. A true Bubble Bot has no sympathy for others. Authentic Bubble Bots think having sympathy for the suffering of others creates out exchange and thus criminal activity.
True Bubble Bots think hate and hostility is an OT power.
Used in a sentence:
Every time the truth was told to a Bubble Bot he spewed lunch ?
I give you……….FOOLPROOF!
Geeze! How many of you are sitting or standing at a desk wondering how to respond to these posts. Peeka Boo ?
Do your best Bubble Bot! Or Bots! Your tone 40 intention to enturbulate is in non existence. We are merely entertained by you and see your utility as aversion therapy to Scientology.
I think you should put Foolproof in a lower condition and send him to the hole. Let’s give Marildi a try. Her angle is that she’s into “other practices” so that we believe she’s a real Indy.
This post got a rise Mike. They are probably trying to solve the albatross around their necks regarding Ron’s weird anti homosexual writings.
Fascinating! My comment was straightforward with no name calling (this time – haha!) and stated the facts of this particular case with no HE&R. So of course now I am a “lying cult apologist” and Brian just spews forth a load of childish invective and name-calling purely because it is me that states the facts. These replies represent the hollowness of your premise – it’s obvious to anyone with any intelligence – and experience of being in Orgs. If you stick to the same sort of arguments that Debbie Cook used in her famous email then no one could really gainsay you, me included, but when you twist and embellish facts to inflate and create a story based on such then I will simply point out the facts.
May we always speak calmness and peace Foolproof. I’d like that very much.
FOOLproof, you were identified some years back as a troll to this community and have given me no reason to change my determination of you, so when I read your posts, I respond from that standpoint. I strongly suspect that others also have working memories and remember your past depredations. That’s what I’m seeing in others’ responses (and bullbaits) to you. You’re almost too predictable to pass up , an easy bubble-dwelling poster to playfully ‘slap’ from time-to-time.
—–
I’m usually good about “Don’t feed the trolls.”, but you’re my one exception;you lighten my day with little chuckles when I read your stuff and others’ responses. If you were at all effective, I couldn’t be so forgiving, I’d simply slap you and be done ith it.
If you’re feeling too beleaguered, try going away for awhile (again), or possibly wise up and recognize the insanity which is scientology for yourself and join us: “contribute to the motion”, so to speak. Many of us have personal reasons to be upset with scientology and transfer too easily that upset to those who mock our efforts to dismantle the evil empire, or in my case, to gloat as “Dweeb Mustsavage” does the dismantling SO effectively. “dweeb” is SO appropriate for the Dwarfenführer — from Apple’s built-in dictionary app, just one click away:
“perhaps a blend of dwarf and early 20th-cent. feeb [a feebleminded person] (from feeble ).” Yup, that describes Davey-boy to a “T”.
Someone can help me; Is there a word that describes what he has looked like recently in the photos where they obviously shooped too-big head and hands onto his tiny little body? AND they artificially over-bronzed his spray-on tan in one of them. Did I REALLY see evidence of corn-rows of transplanted hair clumps in one pic that was a bit too close-up or too-revealingly lit? Only the folks at Bosley know for sure, I guess. He was unimpressive when I met him soon after his blowing off high school. His attempts at a make-over since then haven’t been successful, IMO.
Strange to the theme here of not being able to have more than 1 religion – I knew/know Muslims, Jews (mostly from New York), Hindus and Christians all of whom are or were Scientologists as well. No one in the Church said a word or objected at all. What Mike is cleverly doing is omitting the fact that most of these religions do not have mental practices as in auditing, the only real exception to this being Buddhism with meditation or whatever it is they do in this vein. Jesuit George may chip in now with the Jesuits version of NOTs but apart from that – nothing is similar to auditing thus “no problemo”. There were probably many other Scientologists with differing or even perhaps dual religions but no one ever asked them and it wasn’t important. No one ever excluded anybody from Scientology because of their original or other religion. If they engaged in practices of the mind due to to this then of course that was forbidden, certainly during the time of receiving auditing. And a devout fanatical Christian or of whatever religion is never going to join Scientology anyway. So the slightly twisted idea being presented here is not the full truth of the (invented) situation.
Thanks Fast Eddie.
You conveniently forget that scientology made the argument to the IRS that everyone must eventually accept that scientology is their ONLY belief system. Try getting onto your OT levels — especially OT VII and VIII if you are still a practicing Jew or Catholic. Not someone that attends a Seder or Mass with other family members to keep the “good roads, fair weather” handling in place.
You are simply a lying cult apologist.
But we all love you here as you are a living, breathing testimonial to the insanity of scientology and how it warps people’s ability to think clearly.
Ah! So now it is suddenly limited to the last 2 released levels of Scientology. But even that cannot be true as Jesuit George did his OTVII and Dave’s April Fool’s version of New OTVIII. And I haven’t lied at all, stated the facts actually, unlike you. What do these people “practice” in their religions that is going to be objected to?
Nope. Not limited. Just exemplary.
What do they practice? They are PTS A-J believing anything other than Hubbard Tech will save them. They will be refused service other than PTS/SP course until they “come to their senses.” Any half trained scientologist knows this.
Mike: “They are PTS A-J believing anything other than Hubbard Tech will save them.”
I don’t know of anything in the PTS A-J issue that forbids believing anything other than the Hubbard tech. Even the point about “an open mind with no personal hopes or desires for auditing or knowingness” obviously includes having “hopes or desires for knowingness” and not just auditing.
You and the Fool are entertaining if nothing else. You try to parse sentences of Hubbardspeak to “prove” whatever it is you seek to argue.
You missed this from thge same PL:
Scientology is an applied philosophy designed and developed to make the able more able. In this sphere it is tremendously successful.
Efforts to involve philosophy with medical imperialism, psychiatric sadism, the bigoted churchman, bring about a slowing of our progress.
Oops.
The “BIGOTED churchman” doesn’t mean all churchmen.
Has anyone told you recently how crazy you are? You need some word clearing to reach a full conceptual understanding of the sentences.
He also didn’t mean all psychs right? Just the sadistic ones right? And your response of course is “all psychs are sadistic” because otherwise Hubbard would be allowing the “philosophy” to be mixed up with psychs. And even you agree that you cannot be being treated by a psychiatrist and still qualify to take Scientology services.
Hubbard apologists are so predictable it’s funny.
Gee, Mike, you’re starting to sound like Wynski. You’re better than that.
Every single sage, teacher, saint and adept that I have ever studied always included praise for other paths and teachers.
EVERY ONE!
They teach that the various methods and techniques are created for the different states of being and different mind sets that people have.
An emotional person gravitates towards a devotional path.
An intellectual towards a knowledge path etc etc.
This way all people according to their characteristics has a path that matches their tendencies.
My teacher wrote an Autobiography and each chapter is in praise of other teachers.
L Ron Hubbard denigrated all other paths except Buddhism because Mr. Narcissistic Smarty Pants thought he was Buddha.
Hubbard taught that Jesus was a pedophile, that the Kaaba was an implant station, that Buddha was only keyed out clear, that other spiritual teachers went “up the pole” and are an “inverted Eighth Dynamic.
“Up the pole” was meant by Hubbard that these guys did not know what they were doing and simply went zzzip…… into a transcendent state but they had no idea how they got there and could not teach others. They are like spiritual dummies without Hubbard’s tech.
Basically in a nutshell:
Hubbard denigrated all other teachers and paths. Hubbard held in contempt all spiritual techniques and methods other then his own.
Probably because he did not want his paying customers going elsewheres.
Marildi and Foolproof, your greatest enemy against your arguments are in green on white and red on white.
Saying that Scientology recognizes all religions is like saying preaching Buddhism at a Christian Fundamentalist gathering is accepted.
Scientologists can’t see the truth. That’s because seeing the truth would make them into SPs.
A Scientologist seeing the truth would make them see Hubbard for what he is. And he worked hard to hypnotize you to not see him. If you saw him as he was you would then become like us: an evil degraded being.
That is the mental derangement you have acquired through Hubbard’s doctrinal influence in your cognitive faculties.
Hubbard hated all other teachers. Hubbard hated all other sources of spiritual refuge but the money trap he created.
End of story.
it is your “parsing” of words and ideas that Marildi and I are pointing out. You came out with the premise that people can’t be a Jew and a Scientologist or a Muslim and a Scientologist etc. hoping that all the camp followers here will nod their heads sagely. This never was a problem in Orgs or in Scientology. Fact! So now I am suddenly labelled as Fast Eddie and Marildi is “crazy” all in some desperate attempt to deflect attention. As for Brian’s rantings – well, no further comment, it is plain to see.
You seem to forget that people can actually read your earlier statements?
And also note that if you are doing other religions it is considered “other practices” and you will be C/Sed for an “Other Practices R/D” in which you are audited on each other practice thing you did including church stuff from other religions. The goal on that auditing is that you see the light and drop all the other practices. Once the Other Practices R/D is done you’re sent to the MAA for handling. And even yoga is frowned upon as an other practice, especially if meditation is in the mix.
In reply to ctemspter’s comment above there is no “other practices” rundown (it is 1 or 2 questions on the Green Form) and wearily again, as I have stated above, if people are engaging in other mental practices no they won’t be allowed to receive auditing. Thanks for repeating what I said. But try not to move the goalposts again.
Marildi is quite right and it is you who are twisting words and ideas to to try and bolster your original premise. My remarks above are perfectly accurate as anyone who has spent any time in Scientology and in Orgs can relate to.
Nothing you or Marildi are saying is convincing anyone of the Scientology lie. You two deflect everything Mike and Brian say and don’t actually acknowledge important points. Your way of brushing everything they say under the rug is by simply ignoring it. This is what Scientologists do when faced by any criticism. They brush EVERYTHING under the rug and don’t address ANYTHING with a REAL and DIRECT reply to what it is being discussed. Impossible to have a real conversation with a brainwashed Scientologist, you won’t get anywhere.
Bingo! Thank you Corey. They are masters of deflection. They are like lawyers who simply want to win. Truth has nothing to do with it.
Truth is the enemy of the Scientologist.
They think they are creating some sort of OT effect but they are really degrading themselves publically.
The “Hubbard hates gays” nature of Mike’s post triggers OSA.
Actually Marildi and Foolproof only show up to protect Hubbard. Whenever there is a criticism of the tech and Hubbard they do the troll boogie: deflection, disruption, personal attacks, moral outrage etc.
They think they are protecting mankind’s only hope. They are saving the universe by trolling blogs.
They are great specimens to observe the mind on Scientology.
Carry on Space Warriors!
Absolute nonsense! It is the complete reverse of what you are suggesting. One can be a Jew/Muslim/Christian and a Scientologist. All your protest and hot air doesn’t change that fact. I don’t see how you can get more direct than that. Anyone with any sense will read the comments above and draw their own conclusions.
Foolproof = the essence of all things scientology. And proud of it.
Anyone with any sense will read the comments above and draw the conclusion that you and Marildi are running circles around very important points brought up by Mike Rinder and Brian, and I was specifically pointing out how you are painfully dismissive in your responses and the effort that goes into formulating legitimate replies. Stop skimming through posts and ignoring anything negative that is said about the world’s greatest hypnotist L. Ron Hubbard. I understand that you guys believe that he is greater than life and a symbol of perfection, but that’s only what he wanted everyone to think. Scientology is a religion created by Hubbard FOR Hubbard, tailored to HIS will to benefit his own selfish desires.
A quote from your hero L. Ron, “You don’t get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.”
Mike you are correct: People involved with other religions are categorized as engaging in other practices.
HCO PL POLICIES ON PHYSICAL HEALING, INSANITY
AND POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCES
states:
THE STRESS OF POLICY
All the above “Potential Trouble Sources” are also forbidden training and when a person being trained or audited is detected to belong under the above headings (a) to (j) he or she should be advised to terminate and accept refund which must be paid at once and the full explanation should be given them at that time. Thus the few may not, in their own turmoil, impede service to and the advance of the many. And the less enturbulence you put on your lines, the better, and the more people you will eventually help.
Scientology is an applied philosophy designed and developed to make the able more
able. In this sphere it is tremendously successful. Efforts to involve philosophy with OTHER PRACTICES bring about a slowing of our progress.
If it were limited to the upper two levels, I don’t see how that’s any kind of exoneration for the church. I mean, if the Catholic Church had a stance that Jews or Muslims are welcome to attend mass, tithe, go to potlucks, etc., but they’ll go to Hell when they die… I don’t think anyone would consider the Church welcoming of, and/or compatible with the beliefs of, Jews and Muslims.
Could a Jewish Scientologist openly state that he found the Torah’s explanation of something SUPERIOR to Scientology/LRH’s and remain in good standing? I suspect not.
I don’t know why Scientology continues to push this idea that they’re compatible with other belief systems. Most religions aren’t compatible with other religions. Of course, most religions don’t require you to disconnect from loved ones if they leave the faith in order to remain in good standing. That’s where Scientology is extreme. It’s the behavior that separates them from many religious traditions.
Fool, obviously you don’t know much about real religions. First of all Scientology’s auditing is not a spiritual practice no matter what you or Scientology’s wants to claim. It is an intrusive, harmful mental manipulation that results in repressing one’s emotions and making one susceptible to suggestion. Secondly, auditing is designed to manipulate one’s mind and disconnect one from himself first and foremost.
Meditation and finding one’s center in silence is designed to allow one to reach out and create a spiritual connection with God. As Scientology teaches that, in the end, man can achieve godlike powers and only Scientology is able to save Mankind, there is simply no need for God in your organization. Further, if you are to accept that ALL of LRH’s works are irrefutable scripture then you cannot ignore the fact that he very clearly wrote that God and religion were false implants designed to mislead. You also are clearly taught not to take anything on faith which also removes God from the equation quite nicely. Bottom line, Scientology speaketh with a forked tongue but actions speak louder than words.
FOOLproof, you might have found some folks who HAD been various other religions, as I did in the ’70s, but not while being scientologists, CERTAINLY not after the bulletin describing Heaven as an implant station, CERTAINLY not after OT III material and doubly so after OT VIII(ANY of the versions I’ve seen on the Web). IIRC, any “other religion” is soundly mocked by Tubby in multiple locations, some more scathing than others. At a minimum, the various religions’ icons are discounted as being artifacts of the R6 “Bank”. AND I doubt that “going to church” was an acceptable reason for missing time in the “Academy”, (not that there was ANY acceptable reason short of body death to not show up on time.) His ideas of the Eastern religions were pretty dismissive, showing plainly — even to me, who didn’t know THAT much about them — his dearth of understanding or interest or respect in them. AFAICT, the only religion that he didn’t denigrate at every chance was the worship of HIM being greater than Budda, Mohammed, and Christ combined and that he had built in scientology a society greater than any other in the past quadrillions of years. To that, I say that I found his creation to be particularly soulless, designed to shove humanity down into the muck and ooze, not lift it out of that ‘stuff’.
Absolutely cannot believe they used the term “open minded” to promote scientology. That’s about as squirrel as you can get. Gasp!!!
Scientology lies, must lie, absolutely cannot not lie about most of what it really stands for and its true teachings.
Describing Ron and his creations as myoptic, bigotted and highly prejudiced would be soft-pedaling it.
If it’s not offensive in scientology, it’s something he read in relation to some actual humanitarian organization and decided to appropriate it as his own, but though he might have said the words, he and scientology never actually practiced anything remotely humanitarian. OR anything that actually helped better humanity’s plight. All he offered were his thoughts of what things would be like if he ruled the world. Those of us with experience in that world of his are worse off for it.
What’s the over/under on the amount of money I would have to pay for cramming and sec-checking when I use that “in the context of the time it was written” argument for a disagreement with some other tech or policy of Hubbard’s?
The birth pangs of a new religion. Opening their eyes to the real world, to find it more complex than their old womb. Well said Mike, I hope more people read this article.
Critics, psychs and communists are assholes to attack, attack and ATTACK!
Scientology is a hardcore organisation.
Fascinating post, Mike, along with all the many comments. More actual rational thinking goes on here than in decades of scio.
“What’s the worst that could happen?” says scn HFX.
— How ’bout death, destruction of everything you cherish, and penury (sooner or later), all without ANY of scientology’s promises being fulfilled? Very early in your indoctrinatuion, you’ll read/hear at least a couple of references to anyone in the LGBTQ community being BAD, BAD people: low-toned(1.1 at best)and not to be trusted in any way. As long as I’ve been “out”, It’s tough for me to shake Tubby’s prejudice against them even though I’ve gotten to be friends and co-workers with a few of them. Takes a determined effort to negate Ron’s blissfully ignorant bigotry which runs so close to the surface of all his teachings.
OMG! Scientology LIED about LGBTQ inclusion? and then LIED about its lying? What’s the world COMING to? Oh, that it’s wising up about scientology and the sacrement which is about its lying about just about everything that anyone asks about that corporate conglomerate posing as a faux religion for financial and legal reasons, solely. If scientology says it, it’s probably a lie. If their lawyer or PR person says it, it’s CERTAINLY a lie in whole or part. Betting against those observations is likely to backfire on you.
One of the first Clears was “gay” supposedly. http://www.lermanet.com/exit/JohnMcMaster.htm
You’re right, “gayness” was an aberration to be audited away.
If it is all about the Spiritual being inside the meat sleeve, what does it matter where you rub your smiley parts? The tri-fecta desert religions at least tell you your body is a holy/tainted/made by GOD/fallible vessel, and then lay down doctrine on its uses and abuses. CoS says it is marginal in value but still get their knickers in a twist when you twist your knickers the wrong way. Origional.
Great post Jen!
Hi Mike I believe I have spoken to you before on a site I know you had liked one of my comments somewhere. I have Leah following me on twitter woupd love it if tou would too. I am a member of the gay community I came out late in lifw in my 40’s after I had lived a lie of bei g married for 26 years so when my older daughter came out in college I did as well. I thought if I was living a tortured life at least my husband should be able to gave what he wants out of life. My daughter fills me in on all things lesbian such as companys that don’t hire gays which I will then boycott along with others. She asked me to watch a misic video the other day of a Brandi Carlile song called party of one. She said it has that actress from the handmaids tale in it I said to her sorry I won’t watch it I boycott scientologists. I told her if she started watxhing aftermath I would watch. Lol. Seriously though I said I feel like she’s a hypocrite my daughter said no mom she is an LGBTQ supporter. Now I was really confused bc someone on one of the sites an ex member said to me it’s ok if they are an actor and are simply playing a role. I really don’t buy into that but if it’s true then so be it I still won’t watch but saying she was a supporter of gays sent off all sortsnof warning flares to me bc Elisabeth Moss is the same person that got up and walked out of the room when Leah won her award. I kinda get that even but there is no way she is an LGBTQ supporter I felt as you said it was an untapped resource of money. Our community I hope as a whole does not buy into this crap.
I’m surprised that lil Dave hasn’t come up with some way to change Scientology to fit the times. Maybe there are too many people out there or too much reference material about what Ron said for him to get away with it.
But this is one reason why Scientology is dying, because it’s based on the musings of a 1950s sci-fi writer who wrote the founding books of Scientology off the top of his head. Back in 1957 this all seemed futuristic to some, but today it’s just kooky and very dated. But the only thing that can change about it is the price lists…
From what I understand, David Miscavige ~accuses~ staff of being homosexual as though it is some sort of shameful thing, whereas being an abuse mind control cult leader forcing his underlings to kill their babies to save on childcare costs is quite ok.
It was similar at my org. Shit trickles downhill. My ED at Seattle Foundation Paul Weyn “took a stand” against out ethics by getting rid of a stripper who had been doing fine on course for years because she wouldn’t give up stripping, and a got rid of a homosexual for continuing to engage in homosexuality. To him, those homos are sooooo out ethics. He delivered a blow for total freedom!
OTOH, he didn’t mind ignoring my request to leave to take care of my young family and having my family threatened to work against my will for him for free for three years so that he could get out of hiring somebody else because he knew it was so hard to hire somebody when he had no intention of taking care of them in return for their labor on his behalf. I was just about the only one who would agree to work for him. For good reason.
Yes, Miscavige is extremely homophobic. He accuses Marc Yager ang Guillaume Lesevre of being “homos” and “cocksuckers” almost daily. With a lot more graphic descriptions of course that I will not repeat here. It’s something everyone who has ever experienced him up close and personal will tell you…
AAAhh…”up blouse”…….what does that mean???
Oops. Blouse = close.
I KNEW that’s what you meant….then again, things get a teeny risqué here sometimes, haha! Hope you had a great Christmas & wish you & Christie & family the BEST New Year…..keep hammering out the TRUTH on the Aftermath Series.
I can hardly wait to see more information on their “cash flow”….& having minors sign “Billion Year Contracts”..
Oh man, this really takes me back to my time growing up in Scn. Having had to drill and study both the tone scale and Science of Survival from a young age, I always knew that being gay was just not acceptable in my world. Eventually though puberty hit me, and I noticed that I (as a guy) was really into guys, which meant I had to keep making up excuses for my obviously aberrated tendencies. The “it’s just my physical body, I’m a thetan without gender” line worked for a while, at least to keep my own mental conflict at bay. Then later “it’s just a phase”, and “I’m bi right now but just playing around and once I find a nice girl I will stop and be a heterosexual”.
As I was an org staff for quite a number of years, this tended to become a bit problematic though as the topic kept coming up in sec checks, and my affirmations did not sit well with most of the Ethics Officers I’ve had to deal with. I cannot recount the number of times I’ve had to do O/W write-ups, study programs, conditions, repair past ethics and also deal “effective blows to the enemy” (i.e. gays? Never really understood what was expected of me) which resulted in some hilarious essays about how bad it is for people to be gay and why they should just get their act together and be sane on the second dynamic.
Still thought I could make this work for another 10 years or so, but one fateful day got kicked out of the Fort Harrison as a public. From looking at my folders, it was determined I obviously had gay issues and therefore was not allowed to stay in such an ethical environment. Oh, and my only terminal was the Ethics Officer until this was all sorted out. That night was the only time in my life I seriously considered suicide, in order to pick up a “correct” body next time round and start over. The following morning though I decided they could all go f… themselves and then went to Disney World instead, spending the rest of my vacation days there instead of being at Flag.
Best decision of my life, kicked off my breaking free of Scn and eventually I could help my family get out as well. Took a few more years to find a wonderful partner and finally came out to my (now ex-Scn-)parents just a year ago, something I had always dreaded in the past. Turned out they were cool, no resentments at all, just my mum was a bit upset that I didn’t tell her earlier that the handsome man she met before was actually my boyfriend 😉
Long story short: abandon hope all ye who still think they can somehow make it in Scn as LGBTQ. These people think, from the bottom of their hearts, that you can and need to be saved from your down-tone and aberrated ways. Just be sensible and walk away, keep your sanity (and your bank balance)!
Foreign – OMG – BIG HUGS to you. You are so strong. What you went through is incredible, answering to these idiots. You stood strong and came through the other side. Enjoy and embrace your strength.
^^^THIS. This is the perfect truth counterpoint to the lies above.
I absolutely love your post. Good for you, seriously.
Those bastards think they have some kind of right to pry into people’s personal lives and make them feel guilty or “wrong” about their sexuality — and everything else they deem “unethical”. They go around trying to destroy people’s lives and have the audacity to call themselves ethical. Makes me ill.
It’s so wonderful that you were able to get your family out of the cult. If only everyone could be so lucky. Disconnection is, by far, their most vile and cruel policy. So great to hear you didn’t have to endure that.
I wish you all the best in life. Cheers.
ForeignLurker: BINGO! Nice to hear it said by someone who KNOWS.
FL, thanks for your openness and sorry you had to go through that! Really appreciate you posting here. There’s another ex-Scientologist that posts openly about his being gay. Steve Mango. Another great resource.
FL – Great story and nicely written. You have a talent for storytelling and maybe further writing is in your future. Thanks for sharing.
Wait till the person signs up for a course and gets an “A-J check”, where they find out having an open mind is a bad thing.
The application of this, as any sensible Scientologist or in fact any one with any sense will tell you, obviously does not apply to people who just started their first course as most if not all will be “open-minded” when they first walk in through the door. It only applies to Jesuit George, Brain (sic), Brain (sic) Lambert, Wynski, Katherine Invalidate, Chief Lab Rat, Terra Non-Cognitus and of course not forgetting Tom, Dick and Harry and many other commenters here…
Hey, Foolproof! Good to hear from you again! I’m guessing from your comment that Santa left you nothing this year but a truckload of coal.
Happy New Year! Try not to get too drunk!
No no, I got a huge 42″ HD TV so I can watch Mike’s crocodile tears on A&E and lots of nice clothes!
Foolproof finally openly reveals himself as an OSA Stooge.
Might even be Fast Eddie Parkin using a pseudonym…
Don’t see the “logic” here. And anyway I knew Ed from a long time ago, he was quite a nice amiable dude.
Yep, he is a nice guy who tells horrendous lies with reckless abandon as a brainwashed stooge of scientology. You too might be a nice guy.
FP —
You are vile human being.
Crocodile tears?? You’re gonna talk that kind of shit like it’s funny? It’s funny that the cult of $cientology has forced families to be ripped apart through disconnection for no good fucking reason?
And when people talk about what they’ve been through at the hands of Hubbard and $cientology, and they hurt and cry, you find that amusing?
I can take all your stupid “tech” bullshit and whatever else, but this is just nasty. Shame on you.
Foolproof says, or should I say unwittingly reveals:
“obviously does not apply to people who just started their first course as most if not all will be “open-minded” when they first walk in through the door.”
Corollary:
On the first course having an “open mind” is tolerated. After the first course the “open mind” starts being trained out of a person.
Outcome:
After the first few self help courses, being “reasonable” and having an “open mind” becomes the enemy of L Ron Hubbard and his cult.
Then knowing the truth about Hubbard and Scientology becomes suppressive.
Then the truly dedicated Scientologist becomes OSA
Then they hide behind the name Foolproof
Then they serve as aversion therapy for onlookers.
Foolproof is a human tragedy. Foolproof is what happens when being “reasonable” and having an “open mind” is perceived as aberrated.
Foolproof is what happens when hatred and hostility are seen as an OT virtue.
Foolproof is a great example of a mind on Scientology – tragic.
From HCOB 15.9.81 The Criminal Mind: “THE CRIMINAL ACCUSES OTHERS OF THINGS WHICH HE HIMSELF IS DOING.” Could it be then Brian that it is you that is working for OSA? After all, anyone UTR reading your drivel would immediately think “there’s a lot of loonies out there! This dude ran OTIII without a meter on his back porch for 3 weeks – and he wasn’t even Clear! And he’s trying to make out he’s rational! Well…”
Ran OT 3 with a meter and without. I wanted to connect to BTs without a via. I used pure intuition – the real OT power. And through that direct perception I saw it was Ron’s case I was running.
The point is that I ran OT 3 without set ups and the sequence Ron said is essential.
He warned that pneumonia, freewheeling and maybe death would be the outcome.
Every time you bring up that I ran OT3 incorrectly simply reminds people that what Ron warned would happen did not happen.
Being a Bubble Bot you probably think you are restiming me by bringing it up all the time.
So thank you for reminding us, Foolproof, that Ron was full of delusions.
I think you are stuck on the fact that I did OT3 and did not get sick.
You are stuck in the incident. Stuck because that little voice of reason that’s been suppressed is trying to get out. So you continue to bring it up.
Face it Foolproof. What Ron said would happen if you do not run OT3 properly did not happen to me.
Oh yeah……….. I forgot……..
The truth is suppressive to a Scientologist. Ha ha! Why am I even trying!
In your deluded sense of OT power you think you are causing upset and disrupting the SPs.
You are simply demonstrating the dangers of Scientology. But you don’t know that because the truth is suppressive to a Scientologist.
Carry on Space Warrior. Carry on saving the universe with your nasty OT hostility.
One day you will get through this FP. Maybe not in this life. But you will.
We did, so can you. I am talking to you, the soul.
“Freewheeling” – A few years ago I was fooling around with a Walter Mitty fantasy, imagining myself to be a rock star of sorts in a certain field. It was fun so I played with it, imagining the counters people were making to my rock star status and the clever retorts I was making and the continued adulation I was getting.
This was fun so I let it run – and run – and run. Two days later after much coffee and little food or sleep I realized I was in too deep and the thing was taking on a life of its own! I yanked myself out of it by saying “Go Do Some MEST (physical) Work!!!” which I did. Phew! I won’t do that again!
A point being that I can see how someone getting into an imaginative creation or fantasy like OTIII too deep can spin out.
Hey – I let my ego run wild and for two days in my head I was a superstar!
Hostility? I think you are one of the main culrpits of such here. As for your “OTIII”, Brian it was simply above your head as we can see from your first paragraph and you have been lucky. I know some who haven’t been so lucky thanks to those “nice” people who published OTIII online. Good luck!
Yes we don’t want any ditherers or people with their own altered versions of OTIII, so as Brian likes to feel he is influencing “lurkers” here if you are such a person then please stay away from Scientology – it does us all a favor! You can sit on Brian’s back porch and contemplate your navels.
I live happily with my two roommates who are a married lesbian couple. I am a straight Male and love them to death. They are two truely great people in my life.
My father is OTVII and still indoctrinated with scientology. He would say he doesn’t mind or that it’s okay but to himself, he still judges them and considers them 1.1 and non-survival wogs.
You can’t be in Scientology and NOT constantly be judging people. It’s one of the things I found so incredibly introverting and vicious at the same time.
An that’s Scientology! I rest my case your Honor (until the next round of absurdity materializes on my screen). What an incredible loser’s game Scientology is…
This appears to be a recent and perhaps subtle change. Within the last year and repeatedly, the Church of Scientology said the Church had “no position on sexual orientation,” and “[t]he Church is on record as being opposed to discrimination of any sort, including on the basis of sexuality.” The COS has gone from having “no position” to having a position.
I’ve previously suggested that journalists may want to ask the Church of Scientology the following specific questions, among others:
1) Does the Church of Scientology perform gay weddings? Is the Church of Scientology willing to perform gay weddings?
2) Does the Church of Scientology support adoption by gay couples?
3) If the Church of Scientology supports adoption by heterosexual individuals, does the Church of Scientology also support adoption by gay individuals?
4) Can a gay person become and remain a member of the Church of Scientology in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?
5) Can a gay person become and remain Clear in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?
6) Can a gay person become and remain OT 8 in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?
7) Can a gay person become and remain a non-Sea Org staff member in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?
8) Can a gay person become and remain a Sea Org member in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?
9) Can a gay person become and remain a member of the clergy of the Church of Scientology in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?
10) Does the Church of Scientology perform, endorse, advocate or accept the validity of any form of gay conversion therapy, or any form of therapy or spiritual practice or technology intended, designed or that has the purpose of changing a gay person’s sexual orientation from gay to heterosexual?
/
Exactly, you said it ALL it’s all about being a CELIBATE to be accepted. Bottom line is FU, are you asking the same of herterosexuals. It’s all BS.
The answer to all your questions is “Yes, if they donate enough money, and/or are a significant celebrity such as John Travolta who donates a lot of money and/or prestige to the CoS.” Oh, and they have to stay low with their sexual orientation.
It began as a way to gain money and power. It is still about money and power.
The operative term is “practicing gay person.” They let you do the OT Levels if you are not a practicing gay person. That means if you have given up having sex with the same sex, you are considered to be not practicing it and thus can have your OT Levels. One example of this was Mario Fenninger who audited on OT VII for many years because he and his companion, Ian, were no longer having sex, probably because at Mario’s age, he could no longer perform in the bedroom.
Interesting comment! So it’s not all black and white on this issue but rather shades of grey (no pun intended). But this somewhat proves my point (made a while ago in another story) that such was often down to local policy setting based on the whim, stance or fear of the local executive, MAA or EO deciding such, rather than being based on HCO Policy. As to handling the cases of the people involved that again should not be based on local executive C/Sing but handling what the person needs and wants to be handled, including, or not, his or her sexual orientation based on what is reading on the case.
ISN, ANY person who holds Hubtard’s writings as correct considers homosexuals and other sexual “deviants” horrendous, horrible people.
I’d like to see Scientology’s theoretical position represented and supported by some of their LGBTQ+ staff.
But, wait, there aren’t any of those – any more than there were, say, native (black) Africans in the authoritarian police state of South Africa during apartheid.
Actually there were many black police officers in the Apartheid state.
Actually, I’d originally written “regime,” but revised that when I was looking for a term that best described the government, forgetting that it altered my original intent to limit my reference to positions of real power and authority. Yes, the Boer regime was willing to cynically use native Africans for low-level work, just as African-Americans were allowed menial positions in government in the segregationist Jim Crow South.
You remind us that Scientology is actually worse in that regard than the South African apartheid state, because they completely exclude LGBTQ+ people from even the lowest ranks of their totalitarian ideological apparatus, being too biased against them to have them working for the organization in any capacity. I was trying to find another comparison other than Nazi Germany, but that really is the one that best fits Scientology, especially given Hubbard’s ideological directive that the ultimate way to deal with “low toned” segments of the population such as gays is to “dispose of them quietly and without sorrow,” combined his admiring citation of examples such as a Venezuelan dictator who implemented such a strategy he had all the beggars in the country killed.
It didn’t work out well:
The police increased the use of part-time, specialised personnel – such as the special constables (called kitskonstabels (instant constables) in Afrikaans) – to help quell the growing violence in the 1980s. In 1987, for example, the police recruited almost 9,000 kitskonstabels and gave them an intensive six-week training course. Most of these constables were Blacks and Coloreds. These “instant” police assistants were then armed with non-lethal weapons and assigned to areas of unrest, which were often the most turbulent townships. Even with training courses extended to three months, their often brutal and inept performance contributed to the growing hostility between the police and the public by the late 1980s.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Police
Remind us what LRH had to say about the Black Africans who lived in South Africa, Foolproof.
Man, the mission in Halifax must be as dead as the mission in Victoria, BC.
I have to disagree with one statement — that an indicator of a faith is that you can not be both that and something else. I agree about Scientology, both because they said that in the IRS tax exempt application and because they do NOT tolerate other practices. However, I am Unitarian Universalist, and we have members of all different beliefs, including atheists. Our faith is not about a creed; it’s about community and a shared set of principles. Scientology can’t claim this, because they don’t even tolerate community. It’s not democratic. It’s a hierarchy, a dictatorship. It also goes to great lengths to be intolerant of views that the dictator does not approve, to the point of not only kicking out the member but also forbidding current members from communicating with the former member. So they’re lying about being able to co-exist with other beliefs and practices. By contrast, UU is a valid religion — both the Unitarian and Universalist traditions go back a couple centuries in this country and to the 16th and 17th centuries in Europe — which does tolerate many beliefs within its membership. So it’s not accurate or fair to say that a religion has to be defined to the exclusion of other faiths.
Wow you learn something new every day. I thought Unitarians identified as Christians.
Jewish Unitarians are not practicing any form of Judaism because, for instance the Unitarians’ bible includes the New Testament. That’s a deal-breaker right there. Some Unitarians may believe they are practicing Judaism too but the decision about what is or is not Jewish is not theirs to make.
Unitarians are no more practicing Judaism than Scientologists are. The difference is that Scientology is an abusive cult while Unitarianism is a normative religious movement.
Cat, Unitarian Universalist isn’t a religion. Hence having atheists as members. It is a philosophic group. Apple & trains to what is being talked about. They may call themselves a church but they aren’t a religion.
UU is a religion. It’s not a creed. I think our usage of the word ‘religion’ is more valid than that of the religions who exclude people with their creeds. We’ve certainly been using it long enough that it’s part of the English language by now. You can’t define us out of existence by narrowing your use of the word religion to exclude us.
There are also plenty of practicing Jews who are UUs. You don’t have to believe the New Testament (or the Old) is literal. Plenty of practicing Jews who are not UUs also don’t take it literally. People who take any of the books literally haven’t done their homework, because they’re not factually true. The stories of Moses and the patriarchs were shown to be pure mythology decades ago, and Jews have an even greater tradition of scholarship than UUs. You can’t tell people what they believe by defining their beliefs off the table. That’s the No True Scotsman fallacy.
Mythology is religious literature. It came from religion, it is part of religion. It is not supposed to be read literally. It is used for teaching and finding meaning. It is not science or history. It’s part of history, because it is part of literature and has history. It does not itself provide factual history.
Irrelevant: religion: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
Deciding to unilaterally change the definition of the word humanitarian to “a person who seeks to acquire personal wealth” doesn’t make the word ACTUALLY mean that. It is an old game of the conman,
I recall many years ago when I was in Miami a staff member named Fred told me about the successful handling of homosexuality through a proper ethics program and “False Purpose Rundown” auditing…….
Wow……I wonder what was considered “proper” ethics handling for gay people, besides making everything they did into an “overt” (that’s a SIN for the newbies reading this) ?
“Come in and see for yourself. What’s the worst thing that could happen?” Hmmm, so many bad things to choose from…I will say you might die. What a manipulative comment.
In the late 1970’s I did a lot of co-auditing with a gay guy and it wasn’t a problem at the org as long as he kept his preference off scientology “lines”. The Ethics Officer back then probably figured she had enough to do with handling upsets between straight couples without dealing with upsets between lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and whatever “Q” stands for couples.
“Bill” wrote off his gayness to picking up the wrong body type this time around and it wasn’t any big deal to him. That’s one way to look at things and it worked for him. You would think that Hubbard would have entered that into the mix.
Maybe someday someone with the assumed name of Lynette Ronnie Hubbard will claim to be reincarnated “LRH”. (Ronnie is a nickname for Veronica.) She’ll have a bit of explaining to do about the crossover but I’m sure she’ll explain things.
I checked wiki and it says that Queer is (often) included as “being more inclusive of younger members of the communities who embrace queer as a self-descriptor.”
Of course, Hubbard did “enter the mix” on this with his point in HCOB Pain and Sex “Sex has nothing to do with the body”. Ok now?
Huh? That sounds like incorporeal (non embodied) ethereal (not earthly; celestial) sex. I wonder how that works. Let’s just have a dance with a departed lover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyknBTm_YyM
Maybe the song isn’t implying it’s a dance with a departed lover. Maybe any old spirit will do. I like to listen to Danse Macabre at 1.25 speed which is probably a hangover from my drugs, sex and rock and roll days.
You should really Method 9 word clear the HCOB Richard. Or at least read it – slowly in your case.
Of course, Hubbard did “enter the mix” on this with his point in HCOB Pain and Sex “Sex has nothing to do with the body”. Ok now?
I always thought Pain & Sex was primarily about fixation and addiction/obsession. Hub never mentions homosexuality specifically, nor does he even allude to it (iirc).
He did say that homosexuality “is about as serious as sneezes.” [1]
That “it’s quite remarkable that the sexes stay straight” considering “the way you get scrambled on sexes on the track” [2]
“This fellow decides that being a man fits his basic purposes and his basic personality, and yet 50 percent of the time he picks up female bodies. What’s he going to do with them? Just collapse at that point, and everything he likes to do and so forth, and be a female for a lifetime?” [3]
What a shame he didn’t update DMSMH, SOS, et al., and let this casual indifference pervade church culture.
1. Resolution of the Second Dynamic (October 1952)
2. Child Scientology (July 1957)
3. Your Case (January 1960)
Thanks for the data update mwesten. I somewhat agree with you about the attitude towards gays in the Church (surprising eh?) As we can see from your quotes above Hubbard himself wasn’t that bothered (eventually) but certain Execs in the Church were and I think still remain so, deciding that if they didn’t show a cold attitude they might be labelled this or that. See also HCO PL 2D RULES.
Are you familiar with the later Flag Order 2D Rules that eradicated ANY leeway concerning “out-2D”? And Pain and Sex that claims ALL sex is aberrant behavior?
Yes, but that is a Flag Order and applicable to the SO. Same as most “priesthoods”.
As to “all sex is aberrant behavior” this is from the Church of Rinderology – don’t see it in the Pain and Sex HCOB but then this sort of dub-in thing is pretty usual.
I posted the entirety of the Pain and Sex HCOB so everyone can decide for themselves what he has to say about sex. You don’t see the 5 words in quotes so therefore it is not what it says. Hahaha.
Hubbard wasn’t much bothered by gays Foolproof?
I think his gay son would have a better opinion about dad’s view.
That poor boy had to live with the man who defined his sexual preferences as worse than a snake in the bed.
Or should be removed from society and institutionalized.
Your lies and delusions are diabolical.
People new to this blog. It is necessary from time to to introduce Foolproof. He is a REAL scientologist. Which means, a pathological liar and is quite insane right now.
I will quote the Fool from above: ” As we can see from your quotes above, Hubbard himself wasn’t that bothered [about homosexuals]”
Now, as a REAL scamologist Foolproof KNOWS Hubtard was batshit crazy AGAINST homosexuality and ALL other non-straights.
Here is but one quote from his most famous book written:
“The sexual pervert (and by this term dianetics, to be brief, includes any and all forms
of deviation in Dynamic II such as homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual sadism, etc. and all down the catalogue of Ellis and Krafft-Ebing) is actually quite ill physically. Perversion as an illness has so many manifestations that it must be spread through the entire gamut of classes from (1) to (5) above. Over-development of sexual organs, underdevelopment, seminal inhibition or magnification, etc. are found some in one pervert, some in another. And the sum of it is that the pervert is always a very ill person in one way or another, whether he is conscious of it or not. He is very far from culpable for his condition, but he is also so far from normal and so extremely dangerous to society that the tolerance of perversion is as thoroughly bad for society as punishment for it. Lacking proper means prior to this time, society has been caught between tolerance and punishment, and the problem of perversion has, of course, not been
resolved.”
mwesten: “What a shame he didn’t update DMSMH, SOS, et al., and let this casual indifference pervade church culture.”
He didn’t update books or lectures or anything other than HCO Bs and PLs — which is where many points were clarified and changed over the years. Anyone who was well trained and familiar with the materials knew that LRH changed his mind about homosexuality. Nevertheless, some of them, starting with Miscavige, chose to hang on to their personal prejudices.
What materials are you familiar with that leads you to conclude that “LRH changed his mind about homosexuality.”
DMSMH is “Book One” and Science of Survival is “Book Two” of the subject upon which all else rests.
Waiting patiently….
Your wait is promptly over – see mwesten’s comments above – there were 3 mentioned.
Neville Chamberlain in one of his postings also mentioned that Hubbard knew homosexuality was or may have been occurring at St. Hill in the sixties but nothing was done about it.
And of course the one you ignore all the time is the 1967 HCO PL 2D RULES.
And of course, the one you ignore is the Flag Order and then this masterpiece of propaganda and illogic — one of the last HCOB’s Hubbard ever wrote:
HCO BULLETIN OF 26 AUGUST 1982
PAIN AND SEX
(Note: This HCOB probably won’t increase my
popularity but I would be very remiss if I did
not pass on an important discovery.)
There are two items in this universe that cause more trouble than many others combined.
One is PAIN.
The other is SEX.
One should know more about these things.
They may have applications but they are used by destructive beings in great volume to cave others in.
Despite the false data of Freud, psychologists, psychiatrists and other criminals, they are not native to a being. They are only artificial wavelengths. They have exact frequencies that can be manufactured. A being or a machine can synthesize either one.
Pain becomes a lock on a being’s abhorrence for misalignment of his own electrical flows. It is a lock upon unconsciousness which shuts off knowingness.
Sex is a lock on and perversion of the “joy of creation” which involves a whole being and expands him, but by using just one wavelength, sex, this can be perverted and he contracts.
When pain enters a scene, a being withdraws, contracts and can go unconscious.
When sex enters the scene, a being fixates and loses power.
Destructive creatures who do not want people big or reaching — since they are terrified of punishment due to their crimes — invented pain and sex to shrink people and cut their alertness, knowingness, power and reach.
Thus, you see people who are “experiencing” either pain or sex introverting and not producing much.
Pain and sex were the INVENTED tools of degradation.
Believe it or not, a being can be so overwhelmed by either that he or she becomes an addict of it. Priests become flagellants and cut themselves to pieces with self-whipping. Torturers drool over pain. Lovers are very seldom happy. People do the most irrational things when overcharged with sex, and prostitutes use it as a knowing stock-in-trade. Combined, pain and sex make up the insane Jack-the-Rippers (who killed only prostitutes) and the whole strange body of sex-murder freaks, including Hinckley*, and the devotees of late-night horror movies. Under the false data of the psychs (who have been on the track a long time and are the sole cause of decline in this universe) both pain and sex are gaining ground in this society and, coupled with robbery which is a hooded companion of both, may very soon make the land a true jungle of crime.
Go into an asylum or a prison and look at the increasing institutional population and know what you are looking at. In the main, these are pain and sex addicts, decadent and degraded and no longer capable. They were sent on that route down through the ages by the psychs and here they are still in the psychs’ hands! And do they get well or go straight? Oh no. Whether in prisons or insane asylums they just get worse. And the psychs in both places rub their bloodied hands as they turn their products loose again upon the remaining population! It’s no accident. And the stocks-in-trade of psychs are PAIN and SEX. They will even tell you it’s “natural” to steal!
To compound their felony — if that is possible — they tell you it’s the body doing it. Another crashing big false datum on top of all their other lies.
These are data which emerged from recent thorough research of the whole track. This is not theory or some strange opinion. It is provable electronic fact. The waves are just synthesized.
They are the most-used tools in the campaign against beings in furthering the general goal of those creatures whose sole ambition is destruction. The universe does not happen to be either destructive or chaotic except as such obsessed creeps make it. Statements it is otherwise are just more false data from the same suspect “authorities.” It fits their purposes to make seem natural what they make artificially. The universeonly seems that way to a being because such loathsome psychotics make it seem so. They destroyed every great civilization to date and are hard at work on this one. The one thing they can’t stand is the light of truth, so despite their objections, one must turn it on them. Only in its glare do their lies wither. It is the potent weapon they can’t fend off.
These facts may not be very palatable. But they could clear up some mysteries for you.
For wherever there is a mystery (and both pain and sex have been these for man) there are answers. As both pain and sex could have messed up your life, the above may be some answers you’ve been looking for.
L. Ron Hubbard
Trying to win a popularity contest now I see? The bulletin is straightforward and pithy. Doesn’t pull punches. Doesn’t say anywhere you can’t engage in sex.
Hubbard writes, “These are data which emerged from recent thorough research of the whole track. This is not theory or some strange opinion. It is provable electronic fact. The waves are just synthesized.”
Anyone claiming research/exploration/visions of the distant past speaks as a prophet. Add in some common observations and a nebulous reference to synthesized wavelengths and you have scientific sounding prophecy. Believe what you will.
“Anyone who was well trained and familiar with the materials knew that LRH changed his mind about homosexuality.”
But you see how ridiculous this is – especially if you are gay, curious about scientology, and picking up DMSMH for the first time. You are essentially telling a newbie s/he must study the subject at great length (ie. over a number of years and at great expense) to discover some of its most basic truths.
What’s worse is that they will have to wade through a sea of falsehoods (that they don’t yet know are falsehoods) before they discover Hub’s final address on various issues.
What’s doubly worse is that, unlike progressive revelation (christianity) or naskh (islam), Hub’s earlier revelations are considered equal to those that came later. Suggesting that an earlier datum might be outdated or that his beliefs changed over time is a “high crime” and akin to treason.
It’s farcical.
WRONG marildi. But thanks for proving you too are a pathological liar.
Hubtard put out an issue DECADES after those books were written stating that EVERYTHING in them was current tech and to be treated as HCOBs and KSW applied. Thus it is a SUPPRESSIVE ACT according to Hubtard to state they out of date and no longer valid or were “updated” as HCOBs were issued. YOU know this policy and are lying to hide Hubtard’s insanity.
For newcomers to this blog, marildi is also a scientologist and is quite insane. If you search for her comments you can see how insane she/he/it really is.
You have a common misunderstanding of “Technical Degrades” HCO PL. It was talking about degrading materials that are on authorized checksheets — not all materials. Some of them are factually “no longer in use” and aren’t on checksheets.
Are you trying to say DMSMH and SOS are not on checksheets? That is what this discussion is about….
Yes, but you won’t see any drills or actual application of the statements about homosexuals. Rather, there are issues that contradict those earlier writings (some of which mwesten noted in his comment above) and per policy the later references are the valid ones whenever there is a discrepancy.
You are sillier than even I thought.
Every time you try to argue your way out you dig yourself in deeper.
SUrely you don’t need me to find you the drills and practicals on the Tone Scale and learning them and the characteristics?? They are on a LOT of courses, from basic auditor training, to TR’s and Objectives to PTS/SP course. Your last argument was that it only applied to materials on checksheets. When I pointed out these ARE on checksheets, you now say “well, you won’t find any drills.” But there are.
Really, you need to try a bit harder. What’s next? “But there are no drills about how to practice homosexuality”?
Your vain efforts to make it seem like Hubbard’s writings are not homophobic have taken on a humorous aspect.
It is so incredible to see scientologists who have an almost physical reaction to the thought of “Well, Hubbard was wrong on that one”. It just CANNOT be. He WAS right about EVERYTHING. Right?
I think you’re describing yourself more than me. I specifically said that there were no applications on checksheets to do with the statements about homosexuality in those early books — never said there were no drills on the tone scale. And in a previous comment you asserted that I have defended Hubbard’s views on psychs — not true either. Maybe you’re the one who is trying too hard? Not like you, once again.
The basic point I was trying to make was that Wynski’s statement about “EVERYTHING in [the books] was current tech and to be treated as HCOBs” is utterly false. He just wants to act like it’s true so he can further the false myths.
There’s enough to validly criticize about the CoS, without adding falsehoods that actually take away from the truths as a result.
And the statement was true. Everything in DMSMH and SOS IS regarded as current “tech”
Insane person (aka marildi) all those books are on checksheets. You are so messed up and insane that you can’t even keep scamology BS straight in that otherwise empty head of yours.
mwestern he didn’t “update” them because the latter ones you are referring to were written for his Boomer audience who didn’t hate all those who were not straight and was simply a PR move. Hubtard never changed HIS viewpoint on them.
Richard, auditing gays on the lower bridge at orgs was never really a problem. They just could not advance to “clear” until they were no longer gay. If you read Dianetics Hubtard said they need to be audited to be made not gay. Otherwise society should not tolerate their existence.
Richard, from what I’ve seen, the “Q” in LGBTQ seems to mean “Questioning”; also, the “T” is transgender, which I’ve seen can be meant as being *beyond* sexual categorization, sometimes beyond any gender classification: Neither Male nor female, not both in one body, and not neither. As I’ve seen it portrayed, it might be some element of “None of your damned business.” in some cases. Those in the community might class me as homophobic though I view myself as just not getting their obsession(s). I can’t shake tubby’s bigotry on the subject, likely because I was so strongly brought up as hetero and I just can’t concieve of being anything but what I am: a guy who flirts outrageously with any woman around, including one of my best friend’s gay sister OR her current girlfriend when they show up at one of her sister’s many popular parties. AFAICT, the gay sister doesn’t mind it much; at least she doesn’t run away when I approach., and she’s been known to give me a friendly hug from time-to-time [ We know each other from Mensa, which has a large hugging sub-group which makes itself known at the bigger gatherings and amongst friends. Mensa’s all about making real friends, a lovely respite from scientology’s transactional nature of friendship: ( they’re your friends only as long as you’re contributing to the CAUSE™.)
Hi Jere – As far as also being hetero myself, classifying and categorizing are normal mental functions and I’d like to think I didn’t cross over into judgement on Bill who was also a friend as well as a co-auditor. He had no problem with his sexual identity and to me it was just a single part of his overall personality.
The hugging sub-group sounds like fun as long as you don’t get “categorized” as a dirty old man. (joke)
I may be new to commenting on this blog, but I know this much… there is no amount of auditing that could ever change my sexual orientation. I’m not ashamed to be gay. In fact, if “being gay” is 1.1 on a man-made Tone Scale, then I’d say the common denominator of being flawed lies with the man who invented the Tone Scale and the church that perpetuates the infallibility of the Tone Scale, not with every single gay person on the planet.
Moreover, by hiding its bigotry, Scientology does far more damage to the cause of equality for human beings than those religions who honestly put forth their anti-homosexual beliefs. There is a possibility of an authentic conversation and understanding with those who honestly state their beliefs. There is no possibility of an authentic conversation with Scientology.
By the way, my favorite hashtag after Scientology’s load of crap is #thinkforyourself … Yep, “think for yourself” and get far, far away from this human rights atrocity.
Amen RebeccaM!
I’m with you RebbcaM I’m a lesbian I knew what I was when I was 10 years old perhaps a little younger even. I am 59 years old so maybe you can get how hard it was back then. My mom was a wonderful woman a devout Catholic she passed away 18 years ago. I of course was raised catholic and I got married and had 3 kids which caused me to lead a tortured life that ended in drug addiction I have been clean going on 13 years now. But I stayed married until mom passed away. When my older daughter went away to college she came home with a “friend” asking me if I had been watching the L word of course I was. Later on maybe a week or 2 went by and she said I need to tell you something I said what that you are gay? She said how did you know that? I said believe me “I know” she said why are you gay ( not her exact wording) but the answer was of course yes I am. So my point here is I firmly believe we are born the way we are born. And I believe if my mom were still alive she would understand now. When my daughter turned 21 we went to our first gay bar together. I asked my husband for a divorce bc I truly cared about and loved him as my best friend and I thought it was only fair that he have a chance to find someone who could treat him the way he wanted to be treated. As for me it was a whole new world to finally be able to discover. My daughter asked me last week if I saw the new Brandi Carlile video she said it has that actress from the handmaids tale in it. I was like Elisabeth Moss are you kidding me I don’t watch anything with any of them in it ( she tells everyone my mom is really vested in this scientology thing) anyway it’s called Party of One. My daughter said it’s ok she is an LGBTQ supporter I was like that doesn’t sound right to me. However people on other sites are telling me it’s ok for an actor to portray a gay character I feel that if you believe in this religion so much you should turn down those roles or I guess be a hypocrite like her. But if that’s the rule and they can portray gay characters so be it I still boycott. But being an LGBTQ supporter is a whole other ball of wax I’m sure you get what I’m saying here RebeccaM. Well that’s my back story I read Mike’s blog but have never really commented before today. I’m on the fb site cos and the aftermath and have had many in depth conversations with exmembers on there such as Claire Swazey amongst many others. Nice to reaf your comment here. I will be stopping by more often now.
Welcome Jacqueline. Thanks for dropping by. Look forward to hearing more from you.
Hi Jacqueline. First of all, welcome! You said:
“I firmly believe we are born the way we are born”.
Exactly, and if straight people were to actually take the time and think about it logically, I believe most of them would realize this.
I had a pretty long conversation about this with someone from my church (Christian, Methodist) about 2 or 3 months ago I’d like to share with you. He asked me why I thought that gay people were born that way (throwing in the whole “why would God make people sinful” bit). I pointed out that we’re all technically “sinners” and threw back the “judge not lest ye be judged” scripture, but I also pointed out 4 things since he’s always seemed like a very logical person with most other things:
1. From my own personal experience, growing up in the very deep South, the heart of the “Bible Belt”, I knew a couple of people who were gay and most of their family and friends completely shunned them thanks to the small-town mentality where I grew up, including one guy whose own mother and father basically disowned him (and a mother is always supposed to love you no matter what), and this completely devastated him (fortunately, his parents and him have since reconciled with each other). I can’t comprehend why anyone would “choose” to live a lifestyle that would result in the most important people in their life turning them away.
2. From my own experience, I don’t recall ever waking up one day as a kid, “weighing my options”, and making a conscientious decision that I was going to “choose” to be straight. It just sort of gradually turned out that way, starting around middle school. There was no “moment of clarity”, it’s just who I was, and I just naturally started thinking that some of the girls in my class looked very attractive. I never “chose” to be attracted to girls, it just kind of happened. I asked him if he remembered ever “choosing” to be straight. He said that he never made a choice about that either.
3. I told him that, as a straight person, if he is going to believe that sexuality is a “choice”, then he needs to be intellectually honest with himself and concede that there’s the possibility that he could wake up tomorrow morning, make a decision that from this day forward, he’s going to choose to be gay, and he could snap his fingers and immediately make it happen. I told him that I don’t see any way that I could do that, where all of sudden I could just completely changed the way I am and have always been. He said he doesn’t see how he could do that either.
4. I pointed out that I’m many things, and rattled off a bunch of random stuff about me, such as I’m a father, a husband, a son, an uncle, a nephew, a cousin, dark hair, brown eyes, white, male, straight, American, football fan, musical, business owner, church-goer, golfer, baseball coach, and thousands of other things. I told him he may have noticed that I threw “straight” in the middle there, because ultimately, that’s just one small piece of this very large and extremely complex puzzle that make up who I am as a person, and that puzzle is what makes me a unique individual. That one singular aspect doesn’t “define” me any more than my gender, skin/hair/eye color, talents, activities, hobbies, etc. define me. I told him it’s the same for him and everyone else in the world.
What I told this guy actually seemed to get through to him that maybe it wasn’t a “choice”, but he said he still thought it was wrong. I then asked him how can you judge someone for something they had no control over. I told him it would be like him judging my son because he was born mildly autistic. My son never asked for it, he didn’t choose it, he can’t help it, and ultimately, it’s just one small part of who he is as a very happy and healthy kid. It seemed to me like he was finally starting to get it. Hopefully he did. I should probably start up the conversation with him again to see where he is with that now.
Anyway, sorry this got longer than I wanted it to, but I just wanted to tell you this in hopes that you might see that society is coming around to accepting the LGBTQ community at a rapid pace, and that if someone like me, born and raised in a small town in the deep South with a pretty fundamental Christian upbringing, can finally grow to understand this, then perhaps there’s hope for society as a whole to once and for all, put an end to this illogical form of bigotry.
Thank you for posting your story. Hope to see you around more.
Scientology celebrities like Moss seem to get to live in a different sphere with different rules – there’s even at least one lesbian couple that’s tolerated. Moss had celebrity parents, and apparently grew up with very different “theetie weetie” ideas about Scientology than, say, normal public members at a local org. I also get the impression that she isn’t even very involved with Scientology itself, if at all – and is allowed to get away with being a “dilletante” like that, too
The hate and discrimination against homosexuals and other sexual “deviants” is baked in to the tech & ethics of scamology. ANY scamologist who says otherwise is either 1) not actually trained in the subject or 2) is a liar and what Hubbard would have labeled as a 1.1 (covertly hostile).
Lying is as baked into Hubbard’s opus as the hate and discrimination towards anyone not ‘straight.’ Along with his overwhelming lust for money and control, lying was a main personality trait. He seemed determined to never tell the truth when he could concoct a self-serving untruth. It’s easy to see in his personal history long before he wrote Dianetics, through his means of getting membership in the Explorers Club, his Caribbean fiasco, the motor sailboat trip to Alaska, and his war record. I doubt he knew the difference between truth and untruth from an early age; if he did, he cast truth aside in favor of untruth.
Unfortunately for his minions, he learned early on the technique of hypnosis by confusion, the waking talking hypnosis that lead so many people to wake up years later and say “How could I ever have fallen for that claptrap?”
The truth is, no one fell for Hubbard, they were led down a primrose path with so many control factors built in that the way out became unthinkable, for years, maybe decades. The only way out for many long-timers and bitter-enders is to get declared suppressive, which sadly arrives with Disconnection from their only world.
If one had the time and resources, one could easily put up a website devoted to nothing but Scientology beliefs and practices that are racist, sexist, intolerant, hateful and hate-promoting, covertly hostile, discriminating and in violation of human rights — and the extent to which they go to cover all that up and pretend to be the opposite.
During my first months in scientology, one of the things I had to do was a course on the tone scale. We were taught that homosexuality was 1.1. It was very low toned.
I’ve not had a great time dealing with that viewpoint because all my life, I’ve been associated with some really wonderful people who don’t seem at all conniving, backstabbing or mean. My uncle is Richard Chamberlain, my nephew is gay, my stepson is gay and my hairdresser and banker are gay (and married to each other with an adORable daughter). My daughter lived with a woman for 10 years before marrying a man. My son’s ex-wife’s sister is now her brother. They are all near and dear to me.
At one point in the tone scale course, I had to write a blurb about each level on the tone scale.
My description for 1.1 read as follows:
I greet all my friends with a smile
But I’m really plotting all the while
Unrestrained, I’d do them in
With friendly handshake and a grin
1.1 is my name, covert hostility is my game.
Honestly, the only people I can say who fit that mold are the people who claimed to be my friends in scientology. Until they stabbed me in the back..
If I were to go by scientology “scripture” (and I have no belief whatsoever in the tone scale or any other “scripture”) and take their advertisement at face value, I would have to say that the ad is one of the most 1.1 things I have ever read. Maybe they can cure themselves?
Wow Richard Chamberlain, that brought back memories! It’s so crazy that they can say they are not anti-gay when one of the first things you learn in Scientology is the tone scale.
He was a hoot at family reunions. One time he did an impromptu skit of a drunk who thought he was a jukebox. It lasted for 25 minutes, had us all ROTFL.
Oh my, Dr. Kildare, yes I’m long in the tooth and I remember. Had a crush on him when I was a kid. Gotta love Richard Chamberlain, American Icon!!!!
Thorn Birds……*sighhh
Excellent point, Valerie. In my life the only ones who did me in with no sorrow were the Scns once they got word that I was “not in good standing” but before any goldenrod was even issued on me. When encouraged to disconnect from me while I was still in good standing, no one asked WHY I was no longer the golden girl. They just took verbal orders as command intention and blindly did what was asked of them with no proof to any allegations and no asking me for my side. Only one friend asked my side. And later when she demanded to read the goldenrod, she said it was over the top trumped up stuff and she didn’t believe it.
Also when I was new in Scn I brought a co worker in to the MIssion to get him into Scn. But he was openly gay and they brushed him off and tried to get rid of him. He didn’t go and so they showed him the reference in the Tone Scale about gays people. He left feeling bad and with a failed help from them.
So, I pointed out LRH’s writing about LGBTQ people to Scientologyhfx. I referred them to page 92 from this link: https://ronsorg.ch/wp-content/uploads/Dianetics-The-Modern-Science-of-Mental-Health.pdf. I was very quickly blocked from following them!
Question to ask Bubble Bots:
Ok, if it’s old knowledge, has it been edited out of Science of Survival, the Tone Scale or DIanetics?
And if this is old knowledge, are there any other archaic doctrines that Hubbard espoused that are now considered old and not applicable?
These questions will throw the Bubble Bot into cognitive dissonance and cause them to brand the questioner an SP.
I feel very sorry for those stuck in such a reason and truth killing bubble.
Very sad.
“And if this is old knowledge, are there any other archaic doctrines that Hubbard espoused that are now considered old and not applicable?” And if they have been erased from books, lectures, HCOB’s, etc., is this not – GOD FORBID anti KSW – that was drummed into us ad-infinitum????
These people have been trained to not know how to think. The truth is suppressive to a Scientologist. That’s so weird but true.
That’s one brain that’s been washed.
You are right Ms.P, KSW will always command them to not question the fabricated and agreed upon infallibility of Hubbard. Their faith is based on it.
They can never toss old dated ideologies away. They must stay irrelevant and archaic.
You OSA guys and gals….. free yourselves. Someone will help you. Hubbard was not what was promoted. He was just a guy with a busy creative mind with some personal problems he was trying to work out in auditing.
He decided to commit suicide running BTs. That’s was what the bridge brought Ron to.
Scientology definitely cures existential angst! I read this blog every day and damnit, I feel better. Hey, of all the horrendous mistakes I’ve made in my long and checkered existence, joining scientology was not one of them, and I’m filled with immediate gratitude . Voila! No more angst for a day!
Very good points. Saying hubbard wrote that in the 50’s and it was “different then” is very much like saying…that’s old tech. LOL I thought that why we all had to read number two policy in every single pack you ever read. It said, “nothing is scn is old…it’s all thoroughly researched absolute truth.” 🙂
Yup. My point exactly. TECH DEGRADES.
There must have been an evil semicolon in there somewhere.
Yep, just like any religion. Give people the “peace, love and tolerance” speech and then, later, when they have too much invested emotionally and financially, let them see the fine print. We just went through a holiday when we celebrate the birth of a baby who, if you don’t believe in him, will cast you into eternal torture. Isn’t that a gift of peace on earth, goodwill towards men? LRH, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell — all have their own take on how to indoctrinate people.
“when we celebrate the birth of a baby who, if you don’t believe in him, will cast you into eternal torture.”
That is the narrow, fundamentalist party line. It does not represent real Christian theology, which, IMO is universalist or conditionalist.
“…a baby who, if you don’t believe in him, will cast you into eternal torture.”
Right you are,Bix, about this being the “narrow, fundamentalist party line.”
It is what my southern evangelical cousins believe and what they preach to me and anyone who’ll listen whenever they get the chance, which in case is, thankfully, seldom.
They are filled with fear. All their beliefs are founded in the fear of the wrath of God and eternal hell fire. And they’re afraid for me – very afraid!
On those rare occasions when they’re not getting on my nerves I pity them.
More often I’m pitying myself though 🙂
On a positive note. AND TO ADDRESS YOUR POINT, I’ve recently made the acquaintance of a few interesting Evangelicals who,to my surprise and delight, espouse the true Christian philosophy of understanding, forgiveness, inclusion and tolerance in their church.
They’re devout, they read the Bible a lot, but they’re not judgemental. A whole different energy emanates from them. I actually enjoyed spending time with them! They are able to discuss thing. It was actually – fun! And they’re Evangelicals…who knew?
Nice to know that devout Christians like this are out there, giving a lie to the stereotype.
A nice Christmas present for me, actually.
Evangelism just means to spread the Good News. It’s another one of those terms that has taken on a negative connotation because of some high-profile nutjobs. An MU if you will. 😉
What a wonderful Christmas present Aquamarine 🙂 I was brought up nondenominational Christian and “They’re devout, they read the Bible a lot, but they’re not judgemental”. I have to confess I fell behind more than a few time (rolling my eyes here thinking to myself “ya think!”) but never felt abandoned. I was hard enough on myself I guess.
I read a quote once that was something like“People need loving the most when they deserve it the least.”- something like that. I like that thought 🙂
Mike – what about this idea
Can we ask US Government Officials to have a bill passed that forces $cientology to disclose the average cost of the Bridge upfront before anyone takes a course
And a warning that they are signing away rights to every donation and money put on account and that legal dox prepared by $cientology are 65 years of perfecting the fact that they will keep it
No refunds
The victim signs a statement TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE prior to parting with any money
What about all the credit card debt $cientologists don’t pay
They file bankruptcy
Then justify it with some “Pirates and Bums” reference by L Ron Lardass
Surely something can be done about that
Don’t take any bets on that! No matter how it’s phrased, if it “harms” the current scio status, they will turn up the legal status, the first amendment status and the “investigating – deeply – the background of any pol or bureaucrat attached to the effort of changing things – all with a very noisy round of Attack PR. That’s precisely what they did to get their 1992 “victory”. Blackmail is very much a part of their weaponry.
Mike writes:
– it is scientology doctrine that auditing will move you up to a better state (higher tone) where you will no longer be gay.
Yup, this is the scientology version of ‘pray the gay away’. It works about as well as auditing does in general. That is, it just doesn’t. After a session a person can feel better but I have never seen any long term changes or gains in ability after auditing. Maybe that’s just me. And I’m sure as hell not ‘clear’ or ‘OT’ either.
I know some of my fellow posters will have other experiences. I remember one memorable item that FOOLproof shared. He actually claimed to have cured someone of hiccups! No shit!!! That man is now a certified new age messiah in my book. I’m sure the hiccuppee is eternally grateful too. Of course FOOL didn’t share with us the magical technique he used and he was careful not to claim that he was actually able to replicate this feat using Hubbard’s infallible ‘standard tech’, but I still think he is special. I wonder how many scientology described 1.1 sexual deviants FOOL has cured. Surely too many to mention.
You cure someone of hiccups by feeding them peanut butter. It’s an old nurse’s trick. When my grandson had his appendix out, he got hiccups BAD. The nurse gave him a spoonful of peanut butter. Viola! the hiccups were gone. He didn’t even have to pick up the cans and the nurse didn’t ask him any questions either. I’m sure that’s in an HCOB somewhere and FOOLproof just forgot to reference it. 😉
pffft.
No it’s not in an HCOB anywhere AFAIK so I didn’t “forget to reference it”. As for trying to ridicule the fact of it no one ever said there weren’t any other cures for hiccups excepting the fact that this woman’s hiccups had been ongoing for 3 days and she had tried everything. My simple statement to her based on my knowledge of Scientology remedied it immediately. I didn’t make a big thing of it but you now have jumped on to Chief Lab Rat’s “now feeling sad and gloomy” bandwagon which miraculously and suddenly occurred when I pointed out the silliness of her remark but which wasn’t present when she first posted her silly and somewhat nasty remark. You should “stop resisting Foolproof” and your mental hiccups – and you – might disappear, even spontaneously combust! Hey Presto!
I actually know of two families who tried to “pray the gay away”. Both sent their son to a strict religious based “work camp” with continued Bible Bashing 24/7 for months. No TV, no radio, no magazines, only the continued droning of the Bible & Biblical tapes & testimonies about the Evils of Homosexual conduct. They were under continued scrutiny & watched 24/7 to ensure there was no “hanky panky gay behavior”.
One young man got the guts to leave his family & moved several states away, which was fine with them as they had turned their backs on him & 30 years later still have not spoken to him.
That 2nd young man was the first born son & named after his father who looked at him & cussed him vehemently once “dear ol’ dad” found out “Billy’ was gay. He tried to “buy him female companionship” to get Billy “interested” in women which Billy declined. The four other younger siblings in the family, including two male siblings had to endure their father’s abusive treatment of their oldest brother.
The name calling, the physical & emotional abuse cut deeply, Billy could only take so much since he “came out” at age 16. Billy found release in the only thing he thought would stop the abuse….at 19 Billy took his own life hanging himself in the family garage.
All to sad & sickening…
Quite simple, I said stop resisting it, she did and she was delighted especially as she had been doing so constantly for 3 days she said. I didn’t make anything out of it than that but of course you have to make out that I did – you are really pathetic. And I did share the technique as I do above but as usual you can’t read or you have severe memory lapses – probably both, or you were hoping I would miss this and leave your daft comments unchallenged. “Memorable item” and you can’t remember most of it! Try again with some other inflated nonsense. As I say, pathetic… It seems I have really gotten under your skin and you have to inflate scenarios to try and prove some daft point or attack me. Report back to the Lab – you need adjusting with electro shocks to find the right track in the maze picking up the Prozac reward on the way, so see you in a few years of er, “research”. I wonder when you read DMSMH (if you ever started it) did you “miss” large sections of that and was it all a blur?
And how would you solve hiccups then? 109 years of research
Foolproof – your responses are always so biting with tones of hatefulness. Even today, it’s the 26th of December, did you not have a nice Christmas day with family and friends? If you did, I would think you would let this slide and just answer with no hateful tone.
As for me my Christmas was sad and gloomy. My brother in law died unexpectedly on Nov. 21 the day before Thanksgiving which he and I always cooked together. At times like this, we put things in perspective. It’s true, tomorrow is NOT PROMISED. Anyway, I truly wish you some calm and happiness in your life and to be free from the shackles of scientology and the suppression of DM.
Ms.P I’m so sorry for your loss. Yet you take the time to be kind and decent. I appreciate that and wish you a happy 2019.
Ann – thank you, you have a kind heart, I’ve read your posts, I appreciate your words. Especially all you’ve been through, hugs and a happy 2019!
Well, I am sorry for your loss (really). But then you can take the time to try and ridicule me whilst “feeling sad and gloomy” and then of course when I point out the silliness and triteness of your comment of which there is no suitable retort, you work out a way to deflect attention off your silliness if not nastiness by making out I am the bad guy here! No, you might know me by now that I do not “let things slide”. Why didn’t you “let it slide” then by not posting such inflammatory remarks in the first place – when you were feeling sad and gloomy and being per Ann Davis – “kind and decent”?
Foolproof, you seem to have conflated the posts of two different posters, Ms. B. Haven and Ms. P.
Yes you are quite right – I’ll report to Qual! My apologies to Ms. P.
You’re the one doing the tone policing here, Fooledroof.
Oh! Really? What did I say then? “Dark Avenger” eh? Sounds ghastly!
I’m sure people like Foolproof also have cases they can point to of someone who supposedly went from gay to straight. The thing that I think often gets overlooked is the “B” in LGBTQ(etc.) for bisexual – there are people who don’t really fall into convenient categories, and so sure, it’s not to hard to get some of them who have been in same-sex relationships in the past, to switch to apparently heterosexual relationships. But that’s no “gay cure,” just the exceptions that are used in attempts to prove flawed religious or pseudo-scientific theories.
Also, as far as Foolproof’s hiccups cure, I’d meant to respond to that one. There are actually quite a number of hiccup cures that can work with different people, and I accidentally stumbled across one that works for me when I was playing out with relaxation and hypnotic techniques as a teenager – it still works, and I also “cured” myself of headaches that had plagued me, using something similar that I also figured out (which still helps, with the occasional headache). Some of our kids have different ones they’ve run across, that work for them. None of that is really a great mystery, but mainstream medicine is uncomfortable with such techniques, in part because they don’t work for everyone, so it can seem like a discovery of sorts to someone with limited knowledge of such things – to someone easily fooled, they could even seem like a sort of miracle.
For anyone who’s looking for a hiccup remedy like what Foolproof stumbled across, here are a few to try:
How to Get Rid of Hiccups: 26 Remedies That Can Actually Help
https://www.healthline.com/health/how-to-get-rid-of-hiccups
“There aren’t many studies that evaluate the effectiveness of different hiccup remedies. However, many of them are backed by centuries of anecdotal evidence. “
“Stumbled across” eh? What tone level was that delivered in? The woman had been doing so for 3 days constantly and presumably had tried many if not every cure for hiccups there was. I find it amazing (well, not really) that a simple act of helping someone is firstly ridiculed and then belittled and then pooh-poohed.
As to the sexual stuff in your first paragraph that you are “sure” about see the Hubbard definition of the 2nd Dynamic – “The sexual or bisexual urge…” etc. Already covered in Hubbard’s works…
Hi FOOL. I don’t think anyone is ridiculing or belittling you regarding the hiccup cure. I’m certainly not. I have no doubt that you actually cured someone of the hiccups that they were suffering for 3 days. And hopefully the woman suffering said hiccups was appropriately grateful. If not, she should have been. And good on you for helping someone out of an unwanted situation.
My point here was not about you at all. You claimed to use scientology ‘tech’ to alleviate hiccups. My point is that, while this worked for you in this instance, it is not workable 100% of the time, on 100% of the people when applied 100% standardly as Hubbard claims in KSW. This is the case even if you are the only one doing the application of the ‘tech’.
As for me, I’m headed back to the lab to look for those missing notebooks that contain the case studies that were the basis for DMSMH. Hubbard surely left some where and if I can find them I will be having a HUGE helping of humble pie for my New Years dinner.
ml,
Ms. B. Haven (Chief Lab Rat I/C)
Go to it! May you never be the same again!
Yes, you are quite right, it doesn’t work 100% of the time, only 97.5%, but even those 2.5% could be helped if they could sit down in a chair and pick up the cans – jolly decent eh? You should really do your “research” before making things up and trying to make some point. Back to the Lab RPF for you! (So it seems you did have a MisU on KSW HCO PL after all eh? Tut tut!)
Curious — if it works 97.5 why are there MANY more “former scientologists” than current. More by orders of magnitude.
If the technology works, why would anyone abandon it?
Curious — if it works 97.5 why are there MANY more “former scientologists” than current. More by orders of magnitude.
If the technology works, why would anyone abandon it?
Well, because your cobber Dave and you misapplied it over the decades and drove people away, like you are attempting to do now!
I remember being 8, 9,…somewhere around there…my friend’s grandmother KNEW how to “cure hiccups”…..she’d shove a teaspoon of sugar into the “Hiccupers” mouth……they sure went through a lot of sugar in THAT house………
…and besides, saying some tech or scripture is “old” or “not used” anymore, etc., is a Tech degrade, per TECH DEGRADES, a bulletin that every scientologist HAS to read (along with Keeping Scientology Working) in the beginning of every course they do. Or is TECH DEGRADES old or no longer used? Gosh, it’s hard to navigate around the deceit, lies, fraud, Q and A, and red herrings that scientology throws out.
That’s just tending towards being like many other strains of dogmatic belief, in which the sacred scriptures are claimed to be inviolable and to be followed to the letter – but inconvenient (or disprovable) parts are quietly ignored, nonetheless.
“Just vone in and check it out. What is the worst thing that could happen?” Really? ?That’s a listing question! And it’s a long list. Just say no to all things scientology works much better imho?
That’s the thing that jumped out at me. “What’s the worst that could happen?” Well we all know. Lose everything!
Everything will be okay when you audit the gay away. Come in today!