Scientology is often criticized by those who claim it practices medicine without a license. They protest this heavily, claiming they do NOT treat or cure illnesses.
Of course, in the scientology world, mental illness is NOT an illness. It is just a bunch of false labels used to persuade people to buy drugs (kind of like scientology is a bunch of false information used to get people to buy scientology)… In scientology, being prescribed a “psych drug” makes you an “illegal pc” ineligible for auditing (though plenty of illegal pc’s have been persuaded to hand over money, only to later be told they do not qualify for auditing, but cannot have their money back).
Scientology’s stance becomes especially problematic when they induce people to come off drugs they have been prescribed to treat mental conditions. This is a dangerous practice. Scientologists believe they know everything about the mind and personality and have the ONLY means of improving one’s mental health. Hubbard even proclaimed that the “last reason for psychiatry to exist” was gone once he developed the “Introspection Rundown.”
So, this is a very odd promotional item — but indicative of how desperate scientology has become to persuade anyone to cross its darkened threshhold.
I also not, the London “ideal org” is now calling itself “Scientology Celebrity Centre” which is a reminder that there used to be TWO orgs in London. Now there is only one. And its empty. Perhaps they are the ones that need to get rid of their depression!
I made a video on exactly what one can do if they are declared ‘illegal’ by the church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwtIlMSOXV0&list=PLHxndOzKf0tAapXQ76gqHk6EGf4095v1B
Typically, Hubbard – and Scientology – took a point with a bit of validity, and stretched it into such a broad generalization that it has almost no validity. Also, typically, Hubbard ran with older and already dated ideas, in this case those of the nascent anti-psychiatry movement, which had for instance already succeeded in shutting down one particular quack practitioner who had caused a small spike in always-rare lobotomies, by the time that Hubbard wrote hysterically as if they were prevalent and increasing (see, for instance, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-psychiatry#1940s_and_1950s).
And ironically, when I read about that one wayward doctor who went around for a couple of years performing assembly-line ice pick lobotomies, he reminded me of Hubbard – a self-promoter certain that he’d found a quick and easy answer to the problems of the human mind, and with a pocketful of anecdotes of success, but a tendency to ignore or dismiss his failures, all in the absence of proper scientific research or rigorous follow-up of actual results. It occurs to me that for some historical perspective, fewer people have received lobotomies in the entire history of the procedure, than have tried Hubbard’s “tech” and rejected it as ineffective pseudo-science in the history of Dianetics and Scientology.
Psychiatry and psychology of course learned their lessons, and shifted to research and evidence based approaches. Scientologists continue to push their same ice pick lobotomy-era theories, which would be shut down for being ineffective and even doing harm, if they were subject to the standards that would be applicable if Hubbard hadn’t worked the “religion angle.”
When I got into Scn in 1975 introductory auditing and dianetic auditing came first. Addressing unwanted attitudes, emotions, sensations and pains seemed logical and metered auditing was fun. Who’s Xenu and what’s a body thetan? I didn’t find out about that until I watched “Going Clear” 40 years later. Ignorance was bliss?
I don’t know what DM is presenting these days but in my time most of Scn up to and including Clear seemed to be a description of real life human emotion, experience and behavior and that’s how I looked at it. Hubbard renamed everything to make Scn look unique and new. Accepting EVERYTHING in Scn as factual and with Elron’s twist on things is a gradual process. Too bad he came up with his Wall of Fire but I guess it was inevitable. He and his associates could have come up with any number of “mental processes” to explore the extrasensory and the paranormal which would have kept people interested and the money coming in. One time I looked at the Freezone site and Captain Bill Robertson had written down twenty or so such processes. With organized religion stats down and world population approaching eight billion people, up from three billion in 1960, there’s plenty of fresh meat with a fraction of the population wanting to explore the paranormal and the supernatural but DM pushed Scn out of the picture.
In Moscow people from cchr and from the org are standing near psychiatric clinics and promoting “alternative truth and alternative methods”
An identifiable enemy the group can unite against is a part of cults and that group of scientologists figures it’s doing something useful. Russians have more history of governmental attempts at thought control and surely scientology is not thought control. oops
“We are holding an exhibition at our prestigious venue…” Like anyone else but them gives a shit about their empty buildings. Like that’s important to someone who is suffering depression.
Hey Mike today I re read the piece about discontion and your mother. I have to say it hurt my heart. What you have gone through is terrible. I know nothing can make rhings right but just know that there are people out here that have your back and if I could make it right I would. You are one of my hero’s. I look forward to hearing about the end of cos and will be at the party in Clearwater when it happens.
You have my admiration .
Until then .
Butch coon .
butchcoon44@gmail.com
Ditto. Mike, you are there for so many others. Never forget that we are also all here for you.
Mike, I have followed your blog and various others for sometime now and have read alot on different stories and aspects of scientology over the years but I’m curious about something I’ve never came across before….what OT level is DM? I would imagine the highest as he is the ‘leader’ but does someone actually get to audit him? And does he pay for ‘services’ and auditing same as everyone else? Thanks 🙂
I think he is level 5 or something and hasn’t been audited since 1994.
Thats crazy. 1994? Thought he would have been higher up. Surely he needs to practice what he preaches? Nah…he can basically do whatever he wants…and continues to get away with it. Whole thing is a sham of epic proportions
qu33, why would DM waste time doing something he knows is a scam?
D m is David miscavich
I surely do hope A&E will continue broadcasting Aftermath until The Scam finally collapses or the leader is finally arrested and imprisoned.
I would think when it does finally collapse, it will be – in part – a testament to the power of broadcasting and The Internet and of course, a testament to the great work done by Leah and Mike. I would think its collapse will bring A&E a great deal of recognition and give the public hope that the evil in this world can be defeated by people exchanging information and ideas.
After all, one of the biggest reasons evil is able to flourish in this world is because so few people know or understand what’s going on. By exposing this evil, I would think A&E is doing a great service and their viewership would only grow greater as a result.
I would urge A&E to continue broadcasting Aftermath until we see the end of this cult and perhaps the end of all cults. After all, it’s not like they do any good in this world.
As someone who is unashamed of her mental illness, I greatly appreciate you sharing this post. What bothers me most about Scientology’s treatment of mental illness is that this so-called “church” makes it the fault of the person. If only you were stronger, if only you had more control of your mind and emotions, then you would master your mental illness. It doesn’t work that way. I cannot master my mental illness any more than a person with a heart attack can stop that from happening. Scientology shames people with mental illness into thinking it is their fault, and then kicks them when they are down by taking their every last dime. When I see an advertisement like the one you shared today, it makes me do two things: 1) Give thanks that I never had to personally experience this horrific cult, 2) Join the effort to stop this cult from doing more damage to innocent people.
I was one of these people. I have been successfully treat for my mental illness for almost 20 years. My life is full, responsible, and happy. My work is something that makes Mondays one of my favorite days of the week. I am on the Board of a wonderful and growing non profit.
Scientology convinced me that they could do much better. They took my money and declared me. So much for the help.
But it was a great experience. I can’t talk to them and they can’t talk to me. How cool is that???
This isn’t so different to how some other cults operate. Often there is a theme of enlightenment that gets the broad stroke & then once you’re in it you sometimes start seeing the really alarming side of the reality. Most people don’t even see that because they don’t have access to certain parts of an organization. THEN, for all those who think they couldn’t possibly be taken in, you’re well & truly stuck, especially if you have given financially to the point that some do, moved far from where home was, etc.
I have only read the comments on here a couple of times but I am taken aback by the all knowing critics who just don’t get it & are then leaving nasty remarks about human beings who probably had all the best intentions & were taken advantage of because they believed they could help bring change to our world. That actually takes a degree of compassion for others that comments that name call & mock do not. Be careful what & who you judge. The nastiness & disregard sounds an awful lot like the organization & creators/leaders of it.
When Scientology is shone in the light of not being particularly special (except perhaps the writings & how far out Hubbard got) to other cults, maybe then something will change. It takes no real genius to hold people hostage, to brainwash, to hurt. The real genius is in finding a way to make a big difference WITHOUT hurting people. That is why Scientology & other cults wrap themselves around their people like a choking vine to a tree that is living.
Please, start some compassion here. Walk a mile… or don’t. Either way it only reflects who *you* are & how you choose to interact with other human beings.
What the heck are you talking about?
There are rarely people who insult, mock, or be nasty to ex-$cientologists. Almost every person who posts here (who was never in $ci) is compassionate, understanding, and empathetic.
There’s been a few such comments from time to time, and yes, that’s not cool.
Most critics do “get it”, particularly people like Tony Ortega, Mark Bunker, Rick Ross, John Sweeney, and many others. They don’t go around saying things like, “what idiots those people are, how could they fall for such obvious bullshit, they’re just stupid…”.
I feel for every ex-$ci who was abused, exploited, lied to, bankrupted, held against their will, and most of all, disconnected from family. It truly breaks my heart.
Maybe you feel for the ex member but what about the person a few lines down? Were you critical & unkind just because you could be? Do you feel better for that? What if that person is being punished & made to write what they are? What if that person is Mike’s son?
Every ex member was once a member. That’s what I was talking about, on today’s topic of mental health. Showing compassion might be a sign of weakness for some people. But it can’t hurt to try it.
Peace.
Show Compassion —
If you’re talking about my replies to Foolproof, you may want to read his posts. He’s a fanatical $cientologist who comes here to insult, belittle, and mock people who don’t think Hubbard is the “end all be all”, or those who think the “tech” is nothing but nonsense.
His colossal arrogance and know-it-all attitude is present in almost everything he posts.
No, I get no pleasure in being unkind. Only someone who gets a kick out of belittling or insulting others would enjoy being unkind.
Read FP’s posts — not just yesterday’s, but others. You’ll see what I mean.
Someone else’s behaviour on a blog should never be my only motive for a response to them. People are not made of teflon. That was my point.
There is a place for active opposition & active assistance where it can do some good. I fully support those actions and I fully support people who quietly wait to discern the best actions for them and people they might affect.
Best to You.
Actually my comments are usually always in response to some sort of criticizing, belittling nonsense from others. And even when I “attack” first, and which is not that often, it is again aimed at those who spend all their comments doing so. So your comment is not actually true and is misrepresenting what I post. And 99% of comments posted here are critical, belittling, etc. It is a trolling web site for God’s sake!
So yes, please read my posts. You’ll see what I mean!
KatherineINCali, thank you. I was thinking of a reply to SC’s post but no need: you put it perfectly. This needed to be said.
Thanks! ?
This was a very crafty way of presenting these critics are being somehow benevolent and kind by pointing out something that they don’t do specifically against the rank and file of Scientologists, meanwhile forgetting the other elephant in the room stuff. Very cleverly worded. These people are making a living out of criticizing Scientology if you can call that making a living.
After reading this I propose a “Be kind to Foolproof Week!” Mike may have to buy one of those Hannibal Lecter masks for Wynski but it could work! Couldn’t it?
But the real question is this: Can you be kind?
Mike – I am hoping you and Leah do Season 4. Please do an entire episode on the Illegal PC and how Scientology gets money out of these poor people and then does the bait and switch – won’t let them have any help. It is very common and I know a ton of people Scientology did this to. Just look at the list of “Illegal PC’s” – anyone could be one.
One guy from the Midwest was regged for his inheritance – $1,000,000. His parents did not want Scientology to get any of that money and even put it into the will….but they got it all. Then the Cult got him to go into debt after they duped him big time.
He had electric shock so he could not have auditing…but they got ALL of his money…..and got him to refinance his house to make more donations.
After he gave up most of his inheritance, the Planetary Clearing Boys regged him over the phone for another $80K or so. He did it – like a fool.
They sell this guy services which is only a carrot on a stick. Then he routes onto the service and signs the legal dox. After a bit – they tell him he can’t have the service because he is an Illegal PC. This has happened many times to this guy over the past 2 -3 decades. We have witnessed it over and over with him and others.
The poor man is elderly. He was paraded around the Ideal Org Grand Openings and used as a SHILL for fundraising.
They called him “The Catalyst” and they made a fool out of him. He ate it up because he was loving the attention, which is normal. He was exploited and it was hard to watch. It was sad and pathetic. He was purchasing admiration because he was lonely and Scientology capitalized on that.
The 20 something year old Scientology Church Executive was the culprit who got the most money out of the poor fool. Staff members said it was a million dollars from his inheritance. He was going through a nasty divorce and was all upset. He kept going to the org to get help. They took advantage of this poor guy.
I sure hope this gets exposed. It is very criminal of Scientology to do this.
Thank you from my heart SP in hiding. What you have posted is the true face of The Cult of Scientology. The rest is cob’s very expensive window dressing.Since Ron first sprung his fake religion on to the planet, taking advantage of Sea Org, Staff & Paying Public is a Ron/cob rite of passage. Did it to me my four years in @ Asho F 1974-1978, & do it today. It makes me cry & get riled up but also makes me more fiercely determined to help bring the total Truth about Scientology into the disinfectant of sunlight. ?☀️
Wow, what a story, even for Scn standards I hope this makes it onto Mike and Leah’s show. I knew a woman who had worked for a psych hospital as an admin person while going to college. She worked there part time some 30 years earlier. But the church told her this made her an illegal pc. She was denied her OT levels. They allowed her training but not OT levels. Well fast forward to now, and a few years back she got a huge inheritance. The church got wind of that and all of a sudden after 30 years of no no no, the church contacted her and said yes yes yes. They told her the earlier stuff had been just an “arbitrary” and she was now OK to do her OT Levels. They regged her for everything from Clear all the way through OT VII. She started on OT VII, wasn’t even on it six months when she found out she had cancer. She was dead within months. The church kept the money.
This is a misrepresentation of the facts here. Firstly it is correct that she was not an Illegal PC if she was just shuffling papers around 30 years ago and that is all she did. But to imply that the Church “kept the money” for her OTVII is a misrepresentation – she paid for the OT6 course and did that. She then started on OTVII and people pay (it used to be) $1700 or so every 6 months in blocks for C/Sing and pay perhaps for other things but this is only at the time of requiring them. Just saying, after all you want the truth here, do you not?
If there was money left over after she died, the right and moral thing to do would’ve been to give it back to her family and/or estate.
But $cientology is literally incapable of doing what’s right and decent.
Apparently, having millions and millions of dollars isn’t enough.
Foolproof, I need to ask where you are getting your information on my friend who was an illegal pc for most of her time in Scn until she came into money? Just saying that the church policy states this or that and therefore your info is wrong doesn’t cut it. The church has many policies that they blatantly ignore while they do outrageously cruel things.
I got my info from the horse’s mouth: first from her mouth herself and after she died, from her husband’s mouth. YOu can’t get much more “on source than that.” Don’t try to tell me she wasn’t illegal for the reasons given. They wouldn’t give her OT levels for decades all because of a part time job she had during her college years. She told me that and her husband confirmed it. The MAA told her, “well you must have had some agreement with psych stuff and electric shock to have worked there.” She had also paid in advance for OT VIII with her inheritance and that of course, was kept when she died.
Yes, this is what happens when Church staff ignore the policies set by Hubbard. Of course such happens and has happened and as is evidenced by the Church admitting it was an arbitrary action later. As to “my information” this comes from the several HCO Policies on Illegal PCs and PTS A-J etc. This is based on my 30 year old knowledge of HCO Policies but I think it is accurate. You and the husband should read them and then you will have your information.
As to the repayment for OTVIII, Registrars or Treasury staff are usually quite adept at “re-arranging” the advance payment either into the account for her husband if he has one or if he wants he can get a full repayment of the amount. I don’t see what the big problem was here. And I think you must also respect the decision of the deceased lady to spend her money where she wished and not imply that she did something that she didn’t want to do.
Your words are all predicated on lies. $cientology is a lie. It doesn’t work. You have been brainwashed from day one. I am so sorry for you.
My God. How sad. Another terrible story. I am so sorry.
OMG – we know the guy you are talking about. This man has been exploited beyond belief.
We heard he was duped AGAIN by Scientology – recently.
The ole bait and switch trick used by Registrar’s in Scientology. They are some of the most deceitful people on the planet.
According to some inside moles UTR, the guy was told he could have auditing out in LA and they regged him for allegedly $100,000. When he got out there, they took it away stating he was an illegal PC.
Some OT from his local Org got him back 1/2 of that but they kept the other half.
IDEAL SCAM, eh?
IRS and Government officials – if you want names – we will get you the names of everyone involved.
This man has been financially exploited and the story needs to be told and the government needs to yank the IRS status.
A Walking Cluster, this isn’t the person I’m talking about. Your person was a male; mine was a female. But the fact that we have two instances of it just on this blog alone tells me that this shit went on and they did it to more than one person. Shameless. I hope A & E gets a 4th season.
That’s heartbreaking and despicable!
Hubbard states in policy that a degraded being is only finally “handled” on Section 3 OT, (OT 3 today, in other words, exorcism of all their infestation of Xenu’s “body-thetans” surplus souls infesting their bodies).
What bears repeating is OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are all exorcism, to rid a person of their load of Xenu’s “body-thetans”.
Scientology’s “upper levels” OT levels 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are the ultimate Scientology iceberg of quackery.
Would ve they never had them in the first place..??
BTs or whatever they call them…
Depression, mental illness and so on can only be made worse by Scientology.
On one hand they encourage people to abandon medication, on the other they offer nothing useful to replace it. And in many cases they will eventually decide that you are someone they can’t help anyway, but only after extracting mountains of cash you can’t afford.
Sort of like going to Mexico to get a Laetrile “treatment” for your cancer – after tens of thousands of dollars down the drain your cancer is worse and may need more draconian treatment. Or may now be beyond treatment.
Take an example – someone is sorrowing for a loved one.
Most therapists would help the grieving person on their journey to healing. It might take weeks or years.
Not in Scientology. In a Scientology session you are taught by example that the only reason for the grief, labelled insidiously as “mis-emotion”, is just a symptom of some earlier loss. Taken down memory lane by a robotic but merciless auditor (Scientologese for “counselor”) you are brought to believe that you can assuage your grief by locating the first time you felt grief or some such foolishness. The auditor works this over from many angles, too complex and silly to detail here, but in the end you are smiling and laughing about it all.
Get that, in an hour or two, with no actual counseling, a grieving widow is smiling and laughing! All the sorrow is suppressed so thoroughly that it might never have been. And the damn fool Scientologists are taking that as a success!
We know that emotions suppressed become expressed in some other way. Sometimes in very destructive ways. But the Scientologist is trained that his emotions are not even real enough to feel, possibly mirroring the unfeeling sociopathic characteristics of the founder L Ron Hubbard.
They are not only practicing medicine without a license, they are pushing snake oil instead of medicine. Sadly not enough is truly known about how the mind works to make that as obvious as it should be. So they get away with fraud that in another field would be clearly criminal.
If someone was taking in appendicitis patients and giving them a snake bite as “treatment” they would be prosecuted so fast it would make your head spin. But the religious cloaking and film flam protects the Scientologists. Not for much longer!
Dear Bruce: to me, this was THE most precise comment on what I feel is THE most disturbing aspect of this “Scientology” thing.
This is a DANGEROUS, half-assed, crackpot, slapdash approach to psychoanalysis. It is deliberately detrimental to mental health, and it’s a shame this is allowed to go on under the guise of “ecclesiastical protection”.
This creepy cult – whose members actually pursue becoming similar to a clearly narcissistic and mentally unstable person: that LHR “founder” – seems to bring out only the very worst in people.
Take this for an example: when you see Mike Rinder and Leah Remini in interviews back when they were with the cult, do they sound natural and, well…”whole”, for lack of a bette word? Even in interviews when they were speaking well of the church, they look brittle and not quite really there. It sounds empty. In attack mode…it’s awful to watch, and it’s really really scary. The sneering, the adolescent-sounding petulance, the absolute lack of room for any reasonable discussion. When you see them now, even when they are angry or uneasy, they come across as 3D people, articulate, charismatic, and most of all: people you instinctively feel you can relate to. They’re real. Fully there in their skin. These are the same 2 people, and only 2 examples. Have you watched Scientology TV? It’s all empty-looking people, sounding completely scripted, spewing crackpot “science”. Sad to watch. Footage of that Tommy Davis guy? And Kirstie Alley? Do they come accross as people who have achieved mental balance and maturity? By ANY standards? What does it say about this organization? Like any toxic environment, they seem to bring out, and nurture, the very worst in people. And then it feeds on them. Horrible, horrible values. This is the opposite goal of proper psychoanalysis.
Thank you again for your post. It was succinct, to-the-point and very educational. I’ve kept it for my own reference and hope a lot of people do the same.
Scientology makes people mentally ill.
It implants confusion and plays tricks on the mind with gaslighting and lying to members.
Scientology lies more and more and more until the members think in opposites.
Good is bad and bad is Good. They will file bankruptcy after giving a ton of money (using credit cards) to Scientology. The justifications are endless.
This needs to be explored and exposed to the government officials.
Mike, been following your blog for a while. But must ask the question, what happened to the two other specials, particularly the one about Danny Masterson?
I do not know what A&E plans to do
Quackery is a sacrament in $cientology. One they practice every day. Throw in the verbal promises about the Purif that are contradicted in the contract you have to sign and one should just scratch their head and walk away.
I heard Tom Szasz give a talk in 1974, he came across as a ‘reformer’ but his assertion that there was no such thing as ‘mental illness’ got some boos from the audience. It was much later that I learned about the CCHR and their take on ‘mental illness’.
$cientology and the CCHR have as much right to discuss ‘mental health” as I have discussing how to repair a space shuttle. I am no rocket surgeon and $cientology is no brain fixer either.
I heard Thomas Szasz on one of those late night talk shoes. He did a lot of damage and hurt a lot of people with this “anti-mental illness” blather. He was in vogue at the time because he sounded so “anti-establishment.”
Obviously as a Mental Health professional, I have a particular interest in this area of Scientology doctrine.
This exhibition is chock-full of half truths, huge bending of fact and indeed outright lies.
I know people are entitled to believe anything they wish, however surely it is wrong and indeed dangerous to pass off such nonsense as verified truth.
Then again, it’s Scientology so I probably shouldn’t be surprised.
Ronnie – Here’s a reference to an old Scn “Classification and Gradation Chart” which shows what Scn addresses. I don’t know if the current Grade Chart is published. On a now inactive Scn blog a university psychology professor participated for a while and her input was valuable. She suggested that auditors would make good psychologists since they were interested in helping people and that many of the procedures on the “lower” Grade Chart cross referenced mainstream psychology.
In short, Scn auditing on the lower Grade Chart addresses improving abilities in areas such as communication and problem solving and Dianetics addresses negative attitudes, emotions, and psychosomatically caused sensations and pains, or AESPs as they are referred to.
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~288971~90060483:Text–Classification-Gradation-and-
Yikes! It’s like they are actively soliciting mental health patients! Depression? Drugs? Who do they suppose will show up for this? They don’t take insurance and that’s one big difference for that public. They will end up with a lot of dependent people on their lines. Sigh.
RON HUBBARD’S revenge beyond the grave (or Target 2)
Maybe this attack on the psychs, and many others , is simply a bitter and angry mans way to get even with those who have rejected him along the way. It was after DMSMH that the rejections got underway and multiplied.
There was a long progression: Rejection of DMSMH by the medical profession, kicked off the original Dianetic Foundation Board, rejection by the psych community, attack by the FDA, raided by the FBI, rejection by 2 wives, creditors after him, potential lawsuits from many ex-business associates, disputes with ex-followers, threats by the IRS, etc. The religion angle gave him some protections in the USA but still, Rhodesia kicked him out, England banned his followers for a time and even ports denied him access—or the authorities of the US government were at the dock waiting to arrest him.
In the end Hubbard viewed EVERYONE not in his thrall as the enemy. I can see Hubbard setting out to punish them. Use the protections of the USA First amendment religion cover, set up shell entities to hide the money, dangle the immortality carrot to those willing to pay, recruit others to blindly obey as slaves for a billion years, set up policies to attack and destroy anyone or any group that tried to counter Hubbard’s goal, have a multi-billion war chest to hire lawyers, PIs (or worse), bribe or pay off when needed . Even with Hubbard gone 33 years his attack machine will continue to punish for many years all who oppose(d) him. Hubbard’s revenge forever.
I have think you nailed it Jim. Hopefully not forever though..
“Maybe this attack on the psychs, and many others , is simply a bitter and angry mans way to get even with those who have rejected him along the way.”
Absolutely, Jim. With his monstrous self-image, he thought he could walk into the American Psychological Assocation (best guess at the name) and mostly likely, dominant it, as he had the sci fi round table in New York in the late ‘thirties. When they told him to take a hike, he blew a gasket. The whole “war against the psychs” that’s become ingrained in scientology, is the creation of a very vindictive psychpath who couldn’t take (well-deserved) rejection.
Absolutely agree Bix!
Mike,
Are there 2 more specials or is the season over…..so many people are wondering and confused…
Thanks for all you and Leah are doing. ❤
The season is over
Very sad to hear that. Hoping for a season 4!
Isn’t there the Masterson episode coming up and one more?
What about the Danny Masterson episode? And The Disappeared?? Will there be any specials upcoming?
This is totally up to A&E. I don’t know what they plan to do.
That’s because the ratings for The Aftermath are in the crapper this season. “Princess Leah the Enturbulator” asked for a big raise and then proceeded to act like a diva. The word on the street is that she may even get fired from her own show. “The Talented Mr. Rinder” may have to do the show alone next season, or perhaps go back to selling used cars. His 15 minutes of fame may be up. I knew this season was in trouble when they had someone like “curbside bullbaiter” Mark Bunker on their show; that’s really scraping the bottom of the barrel; they probably paid him in hamburgers. But that’s the lonely world of ex-Scientologists and critics for you: nothing but losers, low-lifes and weirdos. The Danny Masterson episode is never going to happen; they don’t have the balls.
Obviously you are completely ignorant but believe anything you are told by scientology.
Comments like this serve to prove the point of what scientologists are like and what belief in Hubbard teaches you.
Keep on ranting.
This guy’s a f****n lunatic.
Con man Hubbard would be so proud of this guy’s delusion and gullibility.
That sounded like a total “Scientology” response…
Mr Meat: Meat body obviously includes meat head.
Aftermath has done far better than Scientology TV, with endlessly repeated and vapid content like the banjo makers ridiculously claimed as having saved the instrument from extinction (there are much older surviving manufacturers).
What does that tell us? What’s your opinion (if you’re allowed to have one) about the failings of ScnTV in comparison?
Dear Meat Body on Prison Planet (I can’t believe you use that asinine username) —
You cannot possibly be serious. Aftermath ratings are “in the crapper”?? Clearly, you have no idea why a network would continue to air a series. Here’s a hint: the series is a success. Duh.
Aftermath just wrapped up its third season. It was nominated twice for an Emmy and won an Emmy Award for the first season. Hello? Anyone home?
So, Leah asked for a raise and might get fired? Now you’re just making up bullshit. Leah is financially set for life…that’s a fact. Check her net worth online if you dare to confront reality.
Isn’t $cientology supposed to be oh-so-spiritual and help people become enlightened, happy, kind, and peaceful? Apparently the “tech” hasn’t worked for you. Too bad it hasn’t worked for anyone else, either.
Show me a single person who can demonstrate their non-existent super duper OT powers or the state of “clear”, and I’ll gladly donate to the cult’s unhinged front group known as CCHR.
Aren’t $cientologists supposed to be masters of confront? If you’re so sure of your ability to confront, do some actual research. Watch Aftermath to find out what vile things Hubbard and Miscavige have done and all the lives they’ve destroyed. Read about Lisa McPherson’s death at the hands of $cientology. My guess is you don’t have the balls. Didn’t Hubbard say, “Look, don’t listen”?
Read some books by ex-$ci’s. Look at court documents which prove that Hubbard was a criminal (Snow White Program comes to mind in which 11 $cientologists went to prison).
A&E does have the balls to air the Masterson episode. That rapist pig will get his due for what he’s done. A few $cientologists, at the time that the first rape happened, said they were there & knew what he’d done. But then they changed their story. How very convenient.
So, Mark Bunker was paid in burgers? Bet you think you’re clever. What’s your pay? About $40 dollars a month if you’re lucky. What kind of “church” pays such a pittance when staff slaves for endless hours day after day?
You’re in for a rude awakening once you actually confront reality.
Whats the matter Meat ? ? body? ?
Stats crashing again? ?
Get used to it. Leah and Mike are kicking your evil cults ass??????
If you come to a place in your life where you can get out, I hope there will be someone there for you. There is doubt in your heart and there is hope, or you wouldn’t even bother to comment here.
I wish you peace.
Show Compassion, people like that work for OSA and are ASSIGNED to post here. Not sure you really have a grasp of the situation.
Nothing so see here, move along, move along.
PS: Don’t feed the trolls
For the uninformed, “Meat Body on a Prison Planet” is an obvious and blatant OSA troll. Thiscouldn’t be any more obvious and the heavy indoctrination couldn’t be more apparent. Perhaps it is the rest of us that should be compassionate towards him; maybe he has no clue just how severely compromised as a human being he’s become. If I had to guess I’d say it’s Ed Parkin himself doing ethics conditions and attempting to “put himself at cause” after being so brilliantly and thoroughly exposed by so many viewers, followers and ex’es of the twisted joke called Scientology. Poor Ed, you’re completely lost and bewildered. aren’t you… You’re PTS to Miscavige. Time to confront all your repulsive ser-facs and overts Ed. Looks very much like you’ve become completely unable to “think for yourself”. Scientology can supposedly help with that, can’t it?
Scn911 – Maybe you’re responding to Meat Body in his own language. Otherwise it’s interesting how scn-speak sticks. King’s English translation of two sentences above:
“You’re negatively affected by Miscavige. Time to look at all your ways of repulsively making yourself right and your transgressions Ed.”
I could get a job as a scientology translator if the thing was expanding instead of contracting. Not a lot of job security.
That sucks. I thought they already decided to air the Masterson episode.
Really hope they do. $cientology will lose their thetan-ridden minds.
KatherineINcali,
While I would love to see a show on Masterson, there are doubtless legal issues that would arise from airing things on television. Not only could it jeopardize the prosecution by tainting a jury pool due to publicity, at this point he is considered innocent until proven guilty, so it could open up the show to lawsuits. Once the case is tried- then a show could easily be made about the episode as freedom of information act would kick in so testimony would be available. That’s when they could look at possible suppression of evidence by the church and any attempts to sway or coerce witnesses. Everything has a time- and this ones will come! I think the network will look into all of the legal issues before making a decision. In the meantime, I plan on visiting the A/E site to give support to the show!
From cult expert a few days back, to mental health expert and now legal expert all in the space of a few days! I wonder what it will be tomorrow?
I don’t think airing the episode would necessarily open up the network to a lawsuit. The women who say Danny “allegedly” raped them isn’t exactly slander.
$cientology would be hard pressed to prove the allegations are false. Just my opinion. Cheers.
KatherineINcali: if it was any other church, I would agree. I don’t think winning a lawsuit would be the goal but getting the show cancelled would be. From what I’ve read, they don’t hesitate to sue even when it’s not warranted/ not valid.
I just want to know why the Danny Masterson episode isn’t airing on February 18 as reported on Tony’s blog?
Amazing isn’t it Logicproof? How much REAL education one like Kat LaRue can obtain when ones brain isn’t frying in the scamology skillet. LOL
They have sunken to a new low. They are also playing with fire by actively recruiting people who may be grappling with mental illness. Unfortunately it may actually bring in some desperate people. And it may work for short term- from what I’ve seen, auditing is essentially psychoanalysis with some added bells and whistles (e meter). Psychoanalysis basically allows someone to talk to a practitioner and explore areas in their lives that can be causing pain, anxiety, depression etc. which sounds exactly like Scientology auditing. (If I have auditing wrong, please let me know) However, this may not work long term, and if they add monetary crisis on top of whatever the individual is grappling with, it could cause more harm.
It’s kind of like the quacks and con men who sell cancer treatments to desperate, dying people and take all of their money while giving them no tangible releif- it’s the placebo effect. These people should be ashamed of themselves, but unfortunately they probably actually believe they can cure mental illness. I also noticed the claim that they can ‘fix’ people with depression. I’m not familiar with English law, but if they advertise something like this in the US, it could be construed as false advertising and fraud (especially since they charge people for the services provided). Although I guess they could claim it’s like faith healing and get away with it.
Do Scientologists know that psychologists, therapists and psychoanalysts cannot prescribe medication? (I think several states may now allow it but most do not). Psychiatrists can, but therapists can’t.
Good points, particularly regarding the placebo effect.
The other illusory phenomenon at work, that fooled the first psychiatrists early on, and, ironically, is at work in Scientology and fuels diehards like “Foolproof,” is that lesser psychological complaints like minor depression generally just get better with the course of time, regardless of what is or isn’t done. It’s like standing at an intersection and telling stopped cars that it’s okay, they can go, and visualizing them moving – eventually they will, but what was done by the bystander actually had nothing to do with it. Scientology could almost be said to be based on false attribution of cause, including the whole mechanism of required production of “wins” that indoctrinates members to attribute anything positive in their lives to the “tech.”
Even some more significant problems may tend to improve over time and as people mature, which could also be mistakenly attributed to external factors that actually had little if any effect, though that’s not to downplay the importance and usefulness of therapy and even medications. And where Hubbard’s theories and Scientology’s “tech” really fall apart are with more severe psychological problems, which science has increasingly shown to have a basis in brain function and structure (disproving Hubbard’s view of the mind), such as manic-depressive (bipolar) disorder – another example, actually, where the sufferer will cycle out of the depressive phase as a matter of course
Peacemaker:
Great points. The definition of magical thinking also applies to most of the things LRH and Scientologists claim as proof. Your examples were spot on and are very easy to see when you look at some of the “proof” given by Scientologists to validate their “successes”. There is very little/no actual proof of success for most of his proclamations, yet they are believed to be absolute truth. Certain mental illnesses have an actual physical cause, like other illnesses. These can be helped (not cured) by medications. It’s like a diabetic needing insulin to control blood sugar levels- their body isn’t producing the correct chemicals to regulate itself. In these situations, medication is the only known effective treatment (you cannot “cure” mental illness by locking someone in a room and remaining silent). I’m not saying that medication is not over prescribed for some disorders, or that some medications are likely unnecessary- the drugs given out like candy for ADHD is a perfect example of medication abuse (to me), but I also recognize that for some, meds may be necessary. While I was reading I came across examples that clearly show the dangers of this cults approach to the mentally ill. It borders on malpractice or practicing without a liscence. At the very least reckless endangement.
Great post
“It’s like a diabetic needing insulin to control blood sugar levels- their body isn’t producing the correct chemicals to regulate itself.”
That is faith, not science.
ADHD is not a “Ritalin imbalance”. No conclusive evidence exists to validate the neurochemical model of mental illness. (I’m not saying that biology may not have a role but it is totally irresponsible to suggest it has been established as a sole cause when it hasn’t). Mental illnesses, per the DSM, are diagnosed by questionnaire and observational box ticking – not by lab test, blood test, biopsy, brain scan, etc.
The DSM, it should be noted, is compiled via consensus. When that fails, a vote. Because there is no conclusive scientific means of proving a patient actually has any of its listed mental “disorders”, the only thing the DSM can reliably show is how much two people agree on specific categories of symptoms (via Cohen’s Kappa). It is also a fact that kappa reliability standards for the DSM V are lower now than when they were first introduced for the DSM III.
#giyf
Mwestern,
I think you are intentionally misreading my response. I said that I do not agree with medicating ADHD- I never suggested it was a “Ritalin imbalance” in any way, shape or form. The DSM V is indeed a compilation of different symptoms and criteria. However, there are some mental illnesses that can be linked to chemical irregularities in the brain- we can’t “test” for these at this time, but stating that the premise is false is like stating that other galexies dont exist because we we can’t see them. The entire body runs on chemicals, as does the brain. When imbalances happen, the body gets “sick” just like the brain can. While behavioral and other factors play a large role in mental health, the statement that it is faith not science is ridiculous. The DSMV is a set of criteria that was compiled to help make a diagnosis- just like someone walking into a doctors office with a set of symptoms may be diagnosed without a lab test. It doesn’t necessarily follow that medication is necessary- you can’t treat a virus with antibiotics just as you can’t “treat” some mental illnesses with medications. You can alleviate symptoms, you can give someone a better quality of life, but medications for psychiatric illnesses are not to the point of a cure. There is hope that in the future a final cure can be found- especially if we can isolate the genetic sequences that lead to imbalances. At that time there may be a permanent cure. however, that time is not yet here. I am very practical in my approach to this subject: if someone is in emotional pain that is interfering with their ability to lead a healthy and happy life, then that person should have every treatment option available before they make a decision on how to procede. Having some cult decide that an entire treatment option is invalid just because their leader threw a hissy fit like a little girl when his “great breakthrough” was laughed out of the AMA and the APA is ridiculous. Also, don’t forget that Hubbard himself went to the APA with his “discovery”- obviously he considered them a legitimate and a valid entity UNTIL they disagreed with him- how does Scientology reconcile this with their complete disdain of psychiatry?? Or do Scientologists conveniently forget that little fact??
“I think you are intentionally misreading my response. I said that I do not agree with medicating ADHD- I never suggested it was a “Ritalin imbalance” in any way, shape or form.”
You are equating mental illness with an insulin deficiency. That is pure quackery. Diabetes is an established medical condition. It can be biologically verified and treated. The same cannot be said for any mental illness.
“There are some mental illnesses that can be linked to chemical irregularities in the brain…”
Correlation does not imply causation. Whilst changes in neurochemical activity can indeed affect one’s emotional state, the reverse is also true. There are also any number of environmental, behavioural and social factors that could have significant influence. This is the primary reason why many psychologists are at odds with the bio model. A link might be obvious. The cause is not.
“[W]e can’t “test” for these at this time…”
Correct. Diagnoses are typically made via questionnaire and rating scales, based on tenuous criteria voted into the DSM.
“…[S]tating that the premise is false is like stating that other galaxies dont exist because we we can’t see them.”
Your claim that mental ills have an “actual physical cause, like other illnesses,” has not been reliably established. That is all I have stated. You can argue this point all you like but I’m afraid this is a fact. Your assertion is a leap of faith.
Yes, I too hope that one day we will reach a point where mental health is better understood and where better, safer, more effective treatments are available (and more accessible). But let’s not pretend we are there yet.
And just because I am making this point does not mean I am endorsing scientology.
You calling something “quackery” is extremely telling. Completely disregarding what I was saying also raises eyebrows. I believe I pointed out that there is a link to brain chemistry in some mental illnesses- this is a fact- I never said ALL mental illness is a chemical imbalance that needs medication to alleviate symptoms. You are again misrepresenting what I was saying. At this point, you seem entrenched in taking parts of what I am saying and not seeing the whole picture. Yes, some mental illness, especially mild ones do not need medications to help with the symptoms. However, there are extreme illnesses that DO require medication to make the ones suffering able to function. For example, severe paranoid schizophrenia cannot be “talked” through. Someone who suffers with this generally cannot function without medications. It is also true that many disorders only respond to medication- a suicidal person may have an issue with the levels of serotonin in the brain- that was the analogy that I was drawing on when I made the diabetes reference- mental illness can be a physical issue due to chemical imbalances. I am not sure what your agenda is here but you are off base…or do YOU have a PhD in psychology that you are sitting on??? You pulled out a statistical model to make a rebuttal to my post, but how many years have you studied mental illness?
Oh my. A strawman and an appeal to authority in the same comment.
Let me be very clear.
* Correlation does not imply causation
* Drug efficacy is not a diagnostic marker for mental illness
* “Schrizophrenics” may actually function better off neuroleptics than on [1]
* No mental illness has been established as having a biological cause.
By all means, prove me wrong. Dox or stfu.
1. Jung, E., Wiesjahn, M., Wendt, H., Bock, T., Rief, W., & Lincoln, T. (2016). Symptoms, functioning and coping strategies in individuals with schizophrenia spectrum disorders who do not take antipsychotic medication. Psychological Medicine, 46 (10), 2179-2188. doi:10.1017/S0033291716000775
Still avoiding answering the questions I see. Your Scientology is showing!! You have added nothing but are regurgitating the same arguments you originally started with. That shows me clearly that you have no interest in engaging in an intellectual discourse on the issues at hand. I see you dug up one reference- I could rebut with a lot of references for my points, but as this argument is pointless and you will never directly respond to the points, I refuse to further engage in this waste of time.
Mwestern
In the spirit of the debate, I have no ill feelings regarding our disagreement here. However, I believe your thinking is flawed – as you also believe mine is. I do think you have closed your mind to an entire area of research. It’s like the anti vaccine groups who still believe that vaccines cause autism regardless of the fact that Wakefield admitted to the entire thing being a fraud- very welll documented and disproved through research- yet we still have people who believe it wholeheartedly which is very dangerous to every man women and child. Please take the time to research neurotransmitters and the newest papers regarding the biological and chemical components to mental illness (not on the internet)! You may have your mind opened a bit. I cannot Unread all of the information that I have studied, and cannot unlearn all of the education I have had, so we will never agree as I will not change my position on this matter. I think you have a bad reaction to medication for mental illness that has a root cause somewhere, and it might behoove you to try and figure out the source. Generally someone who is so set against a new idea has a deeper reason somewhere, and your whole hearted resistance to even acknowledge that there is a valid point in medications for certain mental illnesses is very strong for some reason. I assert that my stance is backed by scientific research which is available if you care to look. Let me know if you need a place to start.
Regards,
K. LaRue
You made the claim that (some) mental ills have an “actual physical cause, like other illnesses.”
You have not established this claim to be true.
The implication there “may” be a “chemical imbalance” is not evidence of causation.
It is a leap of faith.
I ask you again to prove your claim.
Despite your lengthy diatribes you have not yet done so. Instead, you have resorted to the typical logical fallacies of someone who is unable or willing to think critically and make a reasoned argument.
1. Questionable Cause (eg. cum hoc ergo propter hoc, single cause fallacy)
Despite the fact you have already admitted there is no way to actually test for a neurochemical imbalance, you continue to repeat the claim that said imbalances exist and are the “cause” of (some) mental illness.
You don’t say which ills.
You also fail to distinguish between causation and correlation, and ignore the multitude of emotional, behavioural, social and environmental factors that influence mental health (and any possible resulting changes in brain chemistry).
To support your argument you introduced the subject of psychiatric drugs (strawman), inferring their efficacy is validation of a biological illness (false cause). I asked you to support this claim. You didn’t.
2. Strawman
I never expressed any opinion on psychiatric drug use or whether they can be useful for some people. It is irrelevant to your basic proposition. Either a mental illness has been established as having a biological cause or it hasn’t.
It goes without saying that evidence of methylphenidate’s effectiveness at “treating ADHD” ≠ evidence of the existence of “ADHD” as a distinct biological disease.
In response to your claim that schizophrenics “generally cannot function without medications”, I referred you to a 2016 study that found this wasn’t the case. In fact, over six decades of clinical research suggests long-term neuroleptic use actually worsens patient outcomes and increases vulnerability to psychosis.
See also:
Hopper K, Wanderling J. (2000). Revisiting the developed versus developing country distinction in course and outcome in schizophrenia: results from ISoS, the WHO collaborative followup project. International Study of Schizophrenia. Schizophr Bull. 2000;26(4):835-46.
Harrow, M., Jobe, T., & Faull, R. (2012). Do all schizophrenia patients need antipsychotic treatment continuously throughout their lifetime? A 20-year longitudinal study. Psychological Medicine, 42(10), 2145-2155. doi:10.1017/S0033291712000220
Wunderink L, Nieboer RM, Wiersma D, Sytema S, Nienhuis FJ. Recovery in Remitted First-Episode Psychosis at 7 Years of Follow-up of an Early Dose Reduction/Discontinuation or Maintenance Treatment Strategy: Long-term Follow-up of a 2-Year Randomized Clinical Trial. JAMA Psychiatry. 2013;70(9):913–920. doi:10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2013.19
Hammer J, Heggdal D, Lillelien A, Lilleby P, Fosse R. (2018) Drug-free after basal exposure therapy. Tidsskr Nor Laegeforen. 2018 Mar 19; 138 (6). doi: 10.4045/tidsskr.17.0811
3. Appeal to Authority
Rather than providing any evidence to prove your claim, you instead questioned my credentials. It’s worth pointing out that this is a common fallacy used by scientologists to imply that only a highly-trained, certified auditor can possibly comment on or criticise the mechanics of scientology therapy.
4. Appeal to Popularity (eg. argumentum ad numerum)
Rather than providing any evidence to prove your claim, you suggest the number of years you have spent “studying mental illness” is indicative of its truth value. This is a common fallacy used by scientologists to dismiss criticism – particularly from “never-ins” (such as yourself) – as if to suggest that only long-time scientologists can possibly comment on or criticise scientology.
4. Ad-hominem (eg. appeal to motive, guilt by association)
Ahh yes. When all else fails, ad-hom. Rather than providing any evidence to prove your claim, you question my motives, my “agenda” and accuse me of being a scientologist. This is also a common fallacy used by scientologists to dismiss arguments, accusing critics of having “O/Ws”, “M/Us”, of being on the payroll of Big Pharma, of being evil, insane and/or “suppressive”.
* * *
There are legitimate criticisms to be made against the current mental health system, the biological model, psychiatric drugs, diagnostic criteria, clinical research (and funding), drug lobbying, ghost-writing, DTC advertising, drug pricing, the list goes on and on.
And I am more than happy to engage with you on these issues if you can adhere to basic logic and reasoned discourse.
Until then, I will ask you once again: dox or stfu. The burden of proof is on you. Please provide evidence that any mental illness has been established as having a biological cause.
#tyia
To being with, while it’s not a formal line of argumentation, I have to point out that to reject the idea that mental illness can have physical causes, is essentially to hold instead that the brain is then unlike any other part or organ of the body, and never suffers from inherent abnormalities or pathologies that impair or affect its function – not to mention the obvious ones with specific onsets, like injuries from trauma, and strokes. That itself might be said to be a “leap of faith” given what we now do know, and has been proven, about how the rest of the body works, which itself supplanted not so long ago ideas about things like “humours,” and associated practices like bloodletting – supported by compelling-seeming theories and apparently impressive accumulations of anecdotes, and yet which turn out to actually be ineffective and even harmful when subject to rigorous scientific scrutiny, much like Scientology.
I’m not going to drill into the research here, but instead reference a piece intended for general audiences:
“Thanks to new tools in genetics and neuroimaging, scientists are making progress toward deciphering details of the underlying biology of mental disorders. Yet experts disagree on how far we can push this biological model. Are mental illnesses simply physical diseases that happen to strike the brain? Or do these disorders belong to a class all their own?
Eric Kandel, MD, a Nobel Prize laureate and professor of brain science at Columbia University, believes it’s all about biology. “All mental processes are brain processes, and therefore all disorders of mental functioning are biological diseases,” he says. “The brain is the organ of the mind. Where else could [mental illness] be if not in the brain?”
That viewpoint is quickly gaining supporters, thanks in part to Thomas R. Insel, MD, director of the National Institute of Mental Health, who has championed a biological perspective during his tenure at the agency.
To Insel, mental illnesses are no different from heart disease, diabetes or any other chronic illness. All chronic diseases have behavioral components as well as biological components, he says. “The only difference here is that the organ of interest is the brain instead of the heart or pancreas. But the same basic principles apply.”
A new toolkit
Take cardiology, Insel says. A century ago, doctors had little knowledge of the biological basis of heart disease. They could merely observe a patient’s physical presentation and listen to the patient’s subjective complaints. Today they can measure cholesterol levels, examine the heart’s electrical impulses with EKG, and take detailed CT images of blood vessels and arteries to deliver a precise diagnosis. As a result, Insel says, mortality from heart attacks has dropped dramatically in recent decades. “In most areas of medicine, we now have a whole toolkit to help us know what’s going on, from the behavioral level to the molecular level. That has really led to enormous changes in most areas of medicine,” he says.
Insel believes the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness is today where cardiology was 100 years ago. And like cardiology of yesteryear, the field is poised for dramatic transformation, he says. “We are really at the cusp of a revolution in the way we think about the brain and behavior, partly because of technological breakthroughs. We’re finally able to answer some of the fundamental questions.”
Indeed, in recent years scientists have made many exciting discoveries about the function — and dysfunction — of the human brain. They’ve identified genes linked to schizophrenia and discovered that certain brain abnormalities increase a person’s risk of developing post-traumatic stress disorder after a distressing event. Others have zeroed in on anomalies associated with autism, including abnormal brain growth and underconnectivity among brain regions.” https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/06/roots
For just a bit more detail, see for instance: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234144/
Mwestern,
As I previously stated this is NOT the forum for this debate. You obviously went to school as you know how to cite a source, but I would suggest that instead of using “Dr. Google” you actually crack a book! As I said. The discussion is over- I have no need to prove myself to you
Thank you, peacemaker for stepping in
“I have to point out that to reject the idea that mental illness can have physical causes, is essentially…(snip)”
PeaceMaker, I have not rejected the possibility of anything. Read what I have said. I am simply asking for evidence that reliably establishes the truth of a proposition. #logic
Eric Kandel, MD, a Nobel Prize laureate and professor of brain science at Columbia University, believes it’s all about biology. “All mental processes are brain processes, and therefore all disorders of mental functioning are biological diseases,” he says.
Circular logic and causal reductionism. (See also cum hoc ergo propter hoc and the single cause fallacy). The premise is not evidence of the conclusion. Such “neurocentrism” reduces what is arguably a complex and multifactorial issue into a one-size-fits-all religion.
That viewpoint is quickly gaining supporters, thanks in part to Thomas R. Insel, MD, director of the National Institute of Mental Health, who has championed a biological perspective during his tenure at the agency.
“I spent 13 years at NIMH really pushing on the neuroscience and genetics of mental disorders, and when I look back on that I realize that while I think I succeeded at getting lots of really cool papers published by cool scientists at fairly large costs – I think $20 billion – I don’t think we moved the needle in reducing suicide, reducing hospitalizations, improving recovery for the tens of millions of people who have mental illness. I hold myself accountable for that.” — Thomas R. Insel, M.D., former director of the National Institute of Mental Health (2002 – 2015), May 2017.
See https://www.wired.com/2017/05/star-neuroscientist-tom-insel-leaves-google-spawned-verily-startup/
Blah blah blah, more blah blah blah. I got depressed just reading this blather!
Then why did you keep reading it?
And if you really did become depressed, maybe you should get some psychological counseling. It really helps to treat depression.
So, you got depressed, huh?
I guess $cientology’s bullshit claim that “mental disorders don’t exist/are made up” isn’t the case then.
Hubbard the lying liar would be so disappointed in you.
Perhaps you should consult the soup cans to see if your body thetans are depressed as well. After all, the e-meter can read everyone’s mind, as evidenced by the millions upon millions of $cientologists around the world.
Haha! One can always rely on the daft and literal understanding of some commenters here to provoke daft comments to try and score some sort of daft point. Daft! And Katherine, did you not heed the words below about being “kind and compassionate”? And now a comment about the e-meter as well! Yes, the e-meter would definitely enable an auditor to be able to read your mind. I wonder what would be discovered?
As for Andrew Gavinator above, he seems to have descended from Cloud Cuckoo Land with his oxymoronic assurance that psychological counseling can treat depression.
Foolproof,
Did you people (Scientologists in general) learn nothing from the Elli Perkins murder? You simply cannot treat serious mental illness with vitamins- it will not work. Then there is the Lisa McPherson case- another Scientology enabled murder. We now have Kenneth Thompson, a Scientologist who claims he killed because someone in his family sought mental health counseling. When will you open your eyes and realize Hubbard was absolutely wrong in his certainty that he had the answer to all mental health problems. It isn’t very common for mentally ill people to react with violence, but it can and does happen- especially when it is untreated (in an actual way, not by shoving vitamins down their throat, doing some auditing, being locked in a room watched over by silent people, or going through some ridiculous “run down”). In fact, placing someone in these situations when they have a disorder such as paranoid schizophrenia would likely make them more paranoid and more likely to erupt into a violent act.
I’m sure that if you respond to this it will be with some comment that displays your absolute ignorance on the fundamentals of mental health treatment, or- even better- some personal attack on my life experiences and educational background that you also have no knowledge or understanding of. So please, post away- I could use a good laugh this morning!! Oh, yeah- just to address it prior to you posting it, I don’t just depend on web sites to research information…I guess you really HAVEN’T heard of libraries and books…and I really overstated when I posted that you seem to have some intelligence- the more you post, the more you display your lack of intelligence and your lack of education (but I will leave you to your self imposed ignorance- you seem happy with it! Lol)
Perfectly said Kat! I’m thoroughly enjoying your presence here on the blog! ☺
Thank you Ann! I really should have refrained from personal comments about foolproof, he can’t help it that he is so ignorant about the real world. I just couldn’t resist. I am enjoying learning about the strong, brave individuals who have broken free of something that is so pervasive in repressing free thinking. You should all be very proud of what you are doing here! It takes the kind of fortitude that very,very few people have and is a testament to the human spirit that you’ve all come through it as survivors and not victims! I admire you all.
Hi Kat. Just to be clear I’m a never in as well. I’ve been reading this blog every day for about 18 months. I’m very passionate about the demise of scientology! I stand with all here. I think your comments are quite thoughtful. Keep it up. ☺
I admire those who stand up for what they see as injustice, so you are definitely included in the above!! Im Glad I’m not the only “never in” here!!!
So your “research” then omitted this in the case of Kenneth Thompson:
“Prosecutors, in pretrial briefings arguing that the Scientology defense not be allowed, noted there appeared to be no evidence that Thompson practiced Scientology at all.
Thompson’s grandmother, Eva Harvey, said during a phone interview from her Doniphan, Mo., home, that though Thompson was raised in Scientology from the time he was about 5, he shed the religion as an adult. “I don’t think he really believed it,” she said. Thompson, who until his arrest lived in a house on the same property as his grandmother, was an occasional churchgoer, Harvey said. But those services were Baptist, she said.”
Foolproof,
As that case hasn’t been to trial, I can’t read the transcripts and am bound by what is available- however, I looked up the Elli Perkins case file on Westlaw, went to the law library and read the court records regarding that case. I have pulled the cases related to the Lisa McPherson case but those are civil documents and I haven’t slogged through them yet. Depending on which news outlet you read about Thompson, stories are different- I’m going with mainstraeam news- not “Scientology news” which seems to have a decided bias
You’re seriously gonna talk about being kind and compassionate?
Before advising others to do that, take your own advice.
An e-meter would “enable an auditor to read my mind”? You’re killin’ me. That’s hilarious.
I see you’ve moved on (within a few days) from being an expert on mass suicide and cults (after reading a few web sites) to proffering your opinions now on what you think is Scientology auditing and then mental health problems. Keep this up and Mike might yet offer you a slot on the next A-2-E episode. And yes, you’ve got the idea of auditing wrong. But don’t worry, you have an audience here that won’t scoff for once, in fact they will lap it up.
Foolproof,
You make me laugh every time I read one of your posts! It’s so predictable.
Well, it’s not hard – just following in your predictable footsteps here. All you are doing after all with your “research” is regurgitating hackneyed stories that are long since dead in the water or ignored anyway and trying to make out you are adding something new.
Not only they need to get rid of depression, but also of desperation.
Talking about betrayal and hypocrisy, the infamous Introspection Rundown is what accelerated Lisa Mc Pherson’s death. The Snr C/S at that time – Richard Reiss, a very caring person – wrote the instructions, the auditor was drilled and the commands that were expected to get her out of her introspection, just drove Lisa further inwards.
Not only people should not take heavy psych drugs, they also should not put a step into any scientology cult org or mission, as their minds will be abused…and their pockets emptied.
A tragic example is of course Lisa McPherson on the Introspection RD. How well known is she in the cult bubble today?
The church of scientology is the king of labels – false, made-up or accusatory labels – that will become attached to you and those around you the day you walk through its doors. Stay away. Stay Far Far Away.
If it walks like a Quack and talks like a Quack it MUST be El Con Huntard!
You gotta love the fact that Hubbard came out with his best seller Dianetics the Modern Science of Mental Health in 1950 and had the answer for so many ills suffered by Mankind. This was the result of exhaustive “research” into the mind that resulted in a state of existence hitherto unknown and unattainable; ‘clear’. Of course no one has ever seen a ‘clear’ since the state was first described, but apparently the auditing didn’t really work as advertised because the old grifter had to come up with something like the ‘Introspection Rundown’, which was also the result of exhaustive “research”, to really handle mental illness once and for all.
The “introspection rundown” was necessary because Hubbard’s techniques run a relatively high risk of making people go psychotic – for instance, “exteriorization,” or disassociation, is considered one step short of psychosis, so in trying to push people towards the impressive-seeming though illusory state of feeling like they’ve left their body, a certain number will go further and go over the edge. The abreaction therapy that Hubbard had seen in the Navy was actually abandoned not long after, because it turned out not only to make people worse in some cases, but, in spite of seemingly impressive short-term changes in apparent mental state, not to to be effective in producing meaningful change and improvement in the long run.
I think that Hubbard was well aware of the risks, and that in his cynical, ends-justifies-the-means calculus he considered it acceptable to break some minds in the process of trying to create “homo novis” supermen. Miscavige has had to dial back on and more tightly control the delivery of Scientology auditing and processing in order to control such inherent risks, after the Lisa McPherson case and other fiascos.
And Hubbard, unlike the early psychological investigators whose techniques he adopted, was not rigorous and insightful enough to realize that he had fallen into a trap of mis-perception, and his techniques were not really working in the long run. Instead, he literally went down the path of insanity, doing the same thing and expecting to get a different result – and unfortunately many people, like “Foolproof,” have followed him.
I notice you are including me in many of your comments now even when I haven’t participated in the theme. I wonder why? After all if I was spouting nonsense there would obviously be no need, would there?
Ah! The uninformed spouting again! The Introspection Rundown is rarely used, in fact I have never known anyone who has received it in all my years in Scientology. Basically it handles someone who has suddenly gone “wild” and in a psychotic state of mind. Basically it simply handles the wrong indications that cause this.
And because you couldn’t run engrams doesn’t mean that others can’t and also that you can’t eventually. Instead of blathering here why don’t you go to an Indie auditor and get yourself up to a point where you can do so.
Wow. I know a number of people who have had introspection rundown. Surprised you ar admitting your lack of experience as you usually claim all encompassing knowledge of all thing scientological up through OT VIII and Class XII?
Cue meaningless retort when said shock/horror “mountain” is shown to be not even a molehill.
But do you have an “Encountering People” certificate on your wall then? Or how about this certificate – “I knew Joe Blow and his cobber Billy Blowdown in 1989 (Interned)”!
No no, no defamation please – I admit to being nowhere near the level of experience and knowledge of a Class 12, unlike many on here who haven’t even read Dianetics nor even “Idiot’s Guide To Mental Health”, nor for that matter the label on their Prozac bottle.
But, Mike! FP has “never known anyone who received the Introspection Rundown”.
How does he know this? Apparently, he spoke with every single person over many years, was present with everyone simultaneously 24/7, and floated to the ceiling every day and night to watch everything and everyone… after exteriorizing, that is.
And of course, the people who administered the crazy Rundown would’ve certainly told him about it. After all, $cientologists are known for their honesty.
Sounds plausible.
Foolproof, “Wow. I know a number of people who have had introspection rundown. Surprised you are admitting your lack of experience as you usually claim all encompassing knowledge of all thing scientological up through OT VIII and Class XII?roof, ” I couldn’t have said it better than Mike did.
Anybody with any sense reading the above will realize what is going on despite Mike’s and your pathetic attempts to veer off the simple fact stated above by thinking you are somehow belittling me for not encountering Joe Blow or Billy Blowdown. Let’s ask Mike how many people he knew who actually had the Introspection Rundown then? 2? 3? Certainly less than 10 people in 50+ years and hundreds of thousands of preclears. Alright now? Your comments are pathetic childish retorting.
What a great posting Mike – the Ole “Illegal PC” Scam.
This is a very common scene in a Scientology Morgue.
$cientologist is regged for large sums of money for the Bridge. Scientologist is routed onto the auditing service THEN the Illegal PC signs the clever and covert legal contracts where they unsuspectingly agree that all money is a “donation” ….and $cientology gets to KEEP IT ALL if they want to. The account is “debited” for an intensive… they get the illegal PC in “session” and soon the auditor stops the session and says they have to see the Ethics Officer or MAA.
It is planned by Scientology. It is COVERT. It needs to be exposed.
The Scientologist, having no clue they have been scammed, are told they are an ” illegal PC ”
and can’t have auditing.
Then – taken to a room where they are gang banged regged into handing that money over to one of the fake $cientology Front Group.
This scam has happened to so many people – it is sickening.
$cientology is FRAUD! Yank that tax exemption IRS – please. $cientology is a criminal organization hiding behind the religious cloak and tax exemption.
If only those people knew that OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 were exorcism “secret levels” of Scientology, where Scientologists learn of the ultimate iceberg of Scientology’s quackery. Xenu’s “body-thetans” take a lot of exorcism, 5 levels of exorcism, to rid a person of all their “body-thetans.” Just the ultimate iceberg quackery, the average Scientologists are not allowed to even explain OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are exorcism of Xenu’s “body-thetans.”
If everyone in the public knew, then the Hubbard rule about “know before you go” would be used to keep people out of wasting their lives to learn how to do the Hubbard exorcism of Xenu’s “body-thetans” at the start.