Last week I put up a post entitled Scientology Takes Clearwater For Suckers.
A bit earlier tonight, scientology finally got their response approved through command channels, and it appeared in the form of the comment reprinted below.
Of course, a comment such as this to an old post would be buried and most people would not see it.
I wanted it to receive the fullest airing possible in the interest of fairness.
Here is the response, posted under the name “Walter Lippmann”
Oh, dear, Mike, you know very little — about many things but most to the point here about economic impact studies. When the NFL announces the impact study for a Super Bowl game, who provides the numbers that are then crunched by someone? In that case, both the numbers and the crunchers are NFL. When, as Freedom reported, economic impact numbers described NASA in Florida, the Rays and Tampa’s cruise ship industry, who do you think provided the numbers? The organizations being studied, of course.
When, say, the Clearwater aquarium folks claimed in one of their “studies” they would have attendance in 2013 of 800,000, well, shucks, the actual attendance was almost 250,000 people less than projected. And, the aquarium folks told the city a downtown aquarium would have $1 billion a year economic impact, neglecting to note that, according to the city, Clearwater Beach’s economic impact for every single hotel and other business (including the existing aquarium) is only $1.5 billion a year. (The authors of the billion dollar claim were Univ of S Fla professors and students who have, sadly, no experience in vetting economic impact studies, as a very expert professor notes in Freedom.) The aquarium people refused to release their feasibility study, only an “executive summary” whose authors boldly stated: You can’t believe anything in this. My, my. Yet you give absolute credibility to the aquarium promoters’ assertions.
So, keeping in mind that almost every economic impact study must, almost by definition, rely on source material from the entity being studied, the Church of Scientology (as is clear in the FSU document) relied on “audited” (in the accounting sense) data from real life accountants, which was vetted and reviewed over many months by academics who have many, many combined years of examining such information.
You’re not going to believe any of this — or perhaps you do, but you are invested in only attacking Scientology, and facts don’t really matter to you. Your own little gaggle of followers shrinks and shrinks. No one really cares, except a few malcontents who shout hyperbole at each other. If you cared about Clearwater, you’d take a look at the amazingly unsubstantial claims about the aquarium, and the threat it poses to taxpayers. But you’d do anything to diminish Scientology — and that pretty obviously means that your the last person to trust on the matter (keeping in mind what many others have said about you, you were either lying then or you’re lying now).
Finally, it’s instructive how your lockstep followers suggest extortion and intimidation as means to respond to the economic impact study. High level discourse there.
Let’s start out with a question.
If the poster is such an honest and upfront guy, why does he/she post under the pseudonym of a dead author? He/she/they are so concerned with credibility and credentials, mocking the USF study, let’s have your credentials as an expert in the field of economic impact studies. Or in the field of anything.
My credentials (and name) are in plain sight. I made no claim to being an authority on economic impact studies, though I am certainly an unimpeachable authority on the subject of scientology lying. Which is what my posting concerned. Clearly, any sort of economic impact study that is based on entirely false premises is going to be flawed, if not useless.
You try to make a point that information comes from the subjects that are studied. Not sure how true this really is, but I will, for the sake of argument accept this as true. What is not assumed in any such example is that the “sources” will just plain LIE. You are apparently mortified that the Clearwater Aquarium claimed they would have 800,000 attendees in 20013 but only 550,000 showed up. If the church’s figures were erroneous by only a factor of 32% that would be an improvement of about 500%, but apparently the church’s false assertions do not offend you at all, though wrong predictions are apparently unforgivable. In that case, you might want to look at a recent posting covering all the “ideal orgs” that were “predicted to be open in 2012/2013.” The scientology prediction was off by a factor of 10. Like if the actual Aquarium attendees had been 80,000 instead of the predicted 800,000. And the “ideal orgs” are 100% under the control of scientology, unlike tourism.
And you focus on the information taken from church accountants, as if this is all the conclusions were based on. I focused on the lie that there are 23,000 scientologists in the Tampa Bay area and there are 300 “scientology owned” businesses here. But you don’t respond to that. At all. Just try and brush it off with “everyone gives false figures, that is what these studies are about.”
Don’t you find it just slightly jarring to proclaim the impossibility of the alleged $1 billion economic impact of the aquarium by stating “Clearwater Beach’s economic impact for every single hotel and other business is only $1.5 billion a year” when the church is claiming a billion dollar impact and accounts for less than 10% of the total visitors to Clearwater?
A number of people, myself included, have requested the underlying evidence for the foundation of the study, we shall see what comes from this.
But here is the real point. Had the church NOT opposed the Aquarium, and cited this study as their “authority” in doing so, it never would have come up on my blog.
And had the church not persisted with its policy of breaking up families and defrauding people of their money, I would long since have been doing other things rather than wading through the endless stream of garbage, broken lives and lies that scientology produces in enormous volume. You can believe what you wish. You can abuse your members all you want. But your arrogance in destroying families and taking money from people based on lies and then refusing to give it back when they wake up to your trickery — that has to stop.
Sadly, you sound like Jenny Linson at LAX — “no one really cares.” Clearly, this is disproven by your comment. You really DO care. Just as clearly, it is a dead giveaway that this piece came from the same author as the person who put words in the mouth of Jenny Linson.
As for my “little gaggle of followers,” I don’t seek any “followers”, that is something David Miscavige and scientology is almost exclusively engaged in — if you define “followers” as “people who will give you money.”
Finally, you don’t find it at all ironic that you are alleging that people who commented here with nothing more than WORDS, engaged in “extortion and intimidation”? I seem to recall the church taking the position that the Squirrelbusters were “engaged in constitutionally protected free speech” when they camped outside the Rathbun’s home, set up surveillance cameras, harassed their neighbors and family, shouted at them from the street, came to their door with cameras on their heads, showed up to the airport to “greet”them whenever they traveled etc etc? And was this all “free speech” when the same things were done to me and my family and friends? But you, you big pussy, are “intimidated” by comments on a blog on the fringes of the internet that nobody cares about?
Dave, your vanity and vindictiveness are on display yet again.
As has become tradition, the only answer scientology knows to being exposed as liars, cheats and human rights abusers is to attempt to shoot the messenger.
Yet again, you missed and shot yourselves in the foot.
Mr Rinder, I really like your style. Giving it some forethought , actually I do like most of your methods. Perhaps I was too quick to judge. I only have 2-3 specific instances in mind where I actually heavily objected, but they have never repeated again. So we are ok.
You are really a warrior. Rathbun’s book tittle suit you more indeed.
ARC
THE PHOENIX
Re: Sadly, you sound like Jenny Linson at LAX — “no one really cares.” Clearly, this is disproven by your comment. You really DO care. Just as clearly, it is a dead giveaway that this piece came from the same author as the person who put words in the mouth of Jenny Linson.
“Embarrassing, humiliating, disgusting.”
“a few malcontents who shout hyperbole at each other.”
I simply get Standard Tech outside of the Church and for a very much lower price.
That would be free most of the time.
What LRH policy ever stated that in order to do OTVI you had to donate $40,000 to the IAS and get some “status”.
Getting to the level of OT VI is more status than the Dwarf ever had as he never got past Grade II as he is still dramatising this level.
The shouting back in forth is true as anyone who quotes LRH or the Tech will get screamed at in here and accused of all sorts of things.
Rather odd as we all came from Scientology, so its not wrong to quote the Founder nor the subject when discussing it openly.
As this Blog is dedicated to exposing the current and past crimes of the current caretaker (The Dwarf) and his IAS (we steal 10% each reg) thuggees we should concentrate on that.
Rather than the constant anti LRH and Anti Scientology drivel we have to put up with.
There are Forums and Blogs where the anti Scientology person can spend day and night ranting and raving about how bad the Founder and the subject are. Until they finally go away.
The power of the misunderstood!
Mr. Rinder, YOU ROCK !!!
Excellent work Mike. You are a force to be reckoned with these days. Thanks for persisting with this painful duty. Miscabbage’s dirty laundry needs to be continuously aired for all to see.
The “Never-In’s” are also “Never-Believers” in Scientology’s explanatory diatribes. And those who have blown are no longer lying to themselves. The church’s credibility is dead. So who is left to believe?… Only the remaining Kool-aid drinkers swallow this contrived garbage. It’s better to have a captive audience than captive parishioners. I believe the study and I believe Mike Rinder.
“Oh, dear, Mike, you know very little — about many things but most to the point here about economic impact studies. When the NFL announces the impact study for a Super Bowl game, who provides the numbers that are then crunched by someone? In that case, both the numbers and the crunchers are NFL. When, as Freedom reported, economic impact numbers described NASA in Florida, the Rays and Tampa’s cruise ship industry, who do you think provided the numbers? The organizations being studied, of course.”.
What is missing here? Neither the Church’s nor the Aquarium’s “impact” are currently “being studied” by Clearwater. The citizens of Clearwater voted for the Aquarium, and the Church of Scientology did not object at that time. In fact, it was completely silent. Is the Church demanding a recall of the referendum? Or even acknowledging that a vote occurred? No, it is attempting behind closed doors to get city officials to ignore the voters, then denying its actions when queried by the media. Democracy, and honesty, are, apparently, not in the Church’s lexicon- surprise, surprise.
Is there any chance Ray and Gelda Mitoff blow the Int Base and come to their senses?
It’d be nice for a new beaten up ex senior official of Scientology to come out, and give the recent scene at the Int Base.
Is Ray still being beaten up? I’d think if he had resigned himself to being abused, that Miscavige might still feel safe in beating on Ray.
Could Ray if he came out soon, could he be talked into going to the FBI on the grounds of Human Trafficking abuse violations that David Miscavige might have perpetrated directly against Ray Mitoff?
Who else could be a smoking gun defector who if they blew, escaped, came to their senses quick enough to help the FBI make a solid case, and take down Miscavige!
If any Int Base staff read this, blow! Give Mike Rinder the news! Google Tony Ortega and share Int Base current abuse right away!
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/human_trafficking
Also, any data about Ray’s brother? Bob, I think.
Does anyone know if Ray is even still on board, or was he quietly dismissed? If he was dismissed, where is his family from? I know it’s northern California, but where specifically?
You can see a report of Bob Mithoff showing up to harass Marty, Tiziano and me on Marty’s blog.
Ray is still in.
He is from El Paso.
“But you, you big pussy, are “intimidated” by comments on a blog on the fringes of the internet”
Catty!
Nice response, and, indeed, if the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology stopped breaching the human rights of its victims, then a lot of the fuss would go away. (But, then it wouldn’t be the Co$…)
Fabulous, Mike.
You are nuclear.
The church’s response is infantile.
As is pretty much any response from them, in any form.
Mike,
I think DM is blaming you and Marty for the crashing stats in Scientology. (Of course DM knows the “real” stats in Scientology and he knows how bad things really are… which is really, really bad…)
So, even it is true that you guys are at fault for the decline, (not him, as he has no faults) what can he do about it?
Comment on your blog? Seems pretty ineffectual. Maybe he should just come over and talk with you? He’s a grade 0 release right?
Thanks,
Robert
Well, he may be Robert.
But don’t forget, he also likes to tell everyone how much better things are since he “got rid of” all the SP’s — Marty, me, Debbie, Claire etc etc etc
But then again, cognitive dissonance is virtually a requirement for anyone inside the bubble. Including the guy that is blowing it.
Can I get a TEAM RINDER t-shirt?
Well. I had to laugh at this, and I love your response, Mike. Posting that comment with that telltale voice, under any name other than David, is like one of those gags from a spy comedy, where the bumbling agent hides behind the drapes but everyone can see their shoes. Pure comedy.
Poor DM! He is just in over his head, and always has been, but he drove away all the competent people he used to bully into covering for him. That must be rough. What a pitiful fellow… 😉
Those durned misplaced commas
Wait until GAT III, when they’ll have gotten all those semi-colons and colons nailed down as well.
Silly Me. I forgot to add in my comment that the other main reason the CoS doesn’t want the non-Scientologist “wog” public coming to visit an aquarium in Clearwater is that they not only increase the body traffic to be surveilled by their Security but that this public doesn’t give them any money. Since there is no money to be made off this “wog” public, then they have no business being there. They are a nuisance, they are pests; just “raw meat” in Scientology parlance.
Walter Lipmann wants to keep the focus on aquarium attendence numbers only; not on the practices and attitudes of the Co$, as far as why they are opposing the aquarium in the first place. BTW, how much do the “taxpayers” benefit from having the Flag Land Base in the City of Clearwater?
They don’t want the acquarium because more people will be there; bigger crowds, more of a crowd for a blowing SO member to melt into, or even possibly ask for assistance in blowing. How will security keep track of all the sheeple when there are so many new faces now to sort through. A real problem for Scn. And after all, Scientology owns that town so they should have final say in what happens, right? Wrong!
For me, the last straw was the basic books campaign, where The phone was ringing off the hook for weeks, often at night and at times after midnight (the latest, or earliest, was 2:30 AM) This is a church?
Having been a Mission staff member for 2 years, GO staff for 2 years, and Class 4 org staff for 3 years, I had accumulated my share of doubts, and compromises, and have certainly told my share of lies under the banner of ‘greatest good’. My point is, anyone who has been around the block a few times (i.e. a staff member) understands exactly how the church operates, and can see through the bullshit and lies. Thursday 2:00 PM rules all and stats are king.
I think David Miscavige is not long for this world – you can dress him in Saville Row suits and feed him the finest cuisine, he enjoys nothing. He has nothing. He is an empty shell of a person, a criminal who cannot appreciate even the simplest of pleasures in life. Pathetic fool.
Well, shucks, Luanne, is that you?
You and the Socks Pistols?
Long time no troll, huh?
Mike, haven’t written or been in touch for awhile. Pretty sure the news got to you as to why.
Just wanted to come in here and say: your work, your blog, your courage and all of the facts you set straight, I follow and read and admire. Thank you for carrying the torch when some of us have had to fall by the wayside.
Love to you and your family, for they exhibit just as much strength and bravery. You have every support I’m able to give.
The dogs bark, but the caravan (of formerly trappped Scientologists walking away from the cult) passes on…and on, and on, and on, growing longer and longer as it winds its way forward.
I stand in awe every day of the persistence, dedication and love of all of you who are reclaiming your freedom. Keep telling your truths! Keep getting your friends and loved ones out, one by one. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but IT IS WORKING.
Mike,
In your original post you made a very strong point that the main reason Miscavige doesn’t want the Aquarium in Clearwater is because he doesn’t want “wogs” coming in droves to the City. The Aquarium is an attraction that will bring hundreds of thousands of people to Clearwater a year. This is a problem for the CoS because they feel entitled to ownership of Clearwater and want to keep the “wog” non-Scientologist public out.
Walter Lippmann completely shied away from this point, which to me was the MAIN point of your article, aside from the point of FSU being suckered by the CoS’s lies. I know the CoS is obsessed with crunching numbers but apparently they are also extremely concerned about the Aquarium coming to town with all its non-Scientologist public. Perhaps Walter Lippmann doesn’t want people to talk about how the CoS has usurped the City of Clearwater along with the activities of the church being watched by seeing eyes?
Based on what you said in your original article, it makes sense that the Cult fears large numbers of outsiders in close proximity to the Flag Land Base. What would happen if non-Scientologist public see minor Sea Org staff, and then wonder why they aren’t in school and where are their parents? What about those young Sea Org staff, who will see happy families out enjoying themselves? They might start thinking about their own families or having a life on the outside and want to leave. Let’s not forget that some of the non-Scientologist public might have law enforcement or social service connections, or they could be “psychs”. This alone could create a ‘PTS situation’ for Flag.
The Cos definitely sees the Aquarium as a potential danger to their well-being and I think it’s valid to take a look at why this might be and what they are so scared of.
Last, the Cos definitely cares VERY much about you. And so do we, so thank you.
This is so much fun. Great going, Mike.
What a wonderful group this is.
Hey, Dave…hurry up and get outta town. We have a party to go to!
Looking at all the comments here it is an interesting point that all the abuse,complaints, witty repartee and upset directed at Miscavage would have no effect on him whatsoever, in fact he would take great pleasure in having such an enturbulating effect on you all, think about it, if an SP can actually enjoy anything he enjoys nothing more than this. Don’t get me wrong, I understand more than most that a good venting with a liberal dose of abuse has a most cathartic effect upon oneself, but I also refuse if my restraint allows to feed the satisfaction of those seeking an effect upon me.
What does upset Miscaviage though is when Mike and others reveal exactly what he and his ilk are like and are doing to others, lifting the veil on his and the Church’s activities. SP’s absolutely hate the spotlight being directed at them, being made Wrong, it reduces and threatens their power over others.
The response that “Walter” gave is not remarkable for what is in it but rather the way it gives a window into the mind of an SP and the effect you all are having on HIM. The actual “dumbness” and “reactiveness” of the response amazes me, this is the man who is leading Scientology? WOW. What amuses the me the most is the way Miscavage and the Church jump around like puppets every time Mike does or says something, Miscavage is that weak he just can’t help himself, now that is true power Mike. I smile just at the thought of it!
So Mike keep it up, we all know of all the people in this world you are the one that is making him well, more insane, if that is possible. Well done and keep being a nobody on the fringes of the internet..
To: Lynn Farney, OSA PR
Lynn,
The last thing I planned on today was outing you as “Walt Lippmann”. But your last few posts have been so dirty, so beyond the pale– even by OSA standards– that I feel I have no choice.
Yes, you had your orders. But so did Leni Riefenstahl.
You know better.
Remember Robert Redford’s line to the CIA operative toward the end of “3 Days of the Condor”…
“You guys think not getting caught in a lie is the same thing as telling the truth.”
Well, there was precious little truth and a whole lot of lies in your posts today. And now you’ve been caught to boot.
The Lynn Farney who wrote these posts is not the Lynn Farney I first met over 30 years ago. That Lynn Farney was a lover of truth, a lover of wisdom, a lover of LRH and the magical technology he gave us. That Lynn Farney went after REAL bad guys. And defended REAL Tech and Policy. Not some squirrel version put forth by a small man with a loud voice.
The REAL Lynn Farney would never use lies in PR. Because he, like LRH, knew that all those lies dead-end someday.
Well, that day is here.
Lynn, you were always well-read, inquisitive, insightful, and articulate. I hope you continue to communicate until the end of time. Either with a by-line or anonymously, whichever you prefer.
All I ask is that, before writing or saying anything, you ask yourself one simple question:
“Is this true?”
If it is, go for it!
But if it isn’t, remember that all you’ve done is stiffen the bank, solidify the case, and make things persist. Yes, it may have achieved the short-term expedient of making your boss happy, but at what cost?
Far better to do what’s right in the first place.
Good job Mike! As you pointed out the real heart of the matter is the continuous abuses, breaking up of families and defrauding people of their money, broken lives and lies that scientology produces in enormous volume — that has to stop. Thank goodness for people like you in the world that whistleblow. Despite DM and his loonies spouting out that nobody cares, the fact is there are so many that do care about abuses and won’t just walk away and not care.
Does Lippy know that subscribers to Scientology are not supposed to be on these “entheta websites”? From my experience none of them will dare to look for themselves even if someone close to them suggests it, surely this fact alone is strong evidence that he is being put up to this?
What a strange article to protest about too, there are plenty of other possibly more important ones yet he chooses this as his hobby horse.
It would be interesting to do a survey of the Clearwater residents with the question – “what would you rather have here the aquarium or Scientology?” No prizes for guessing the outcome of this one.
The answer sure conveys ‘snide’ all over; sour, hurt, anger and so on.
And re this: “Your own little gaggle of followers shrinks and shrinks”. – they are talking about themselves.
There are probably more readers of this blog than actual $cientologists. Amiright?
Mike just want to say WELL DONE in holding your position in space and seeing these insidious introverting comments for what they are and spotting who it came from. I admire you and what you’re doing please keep going.
“Oh, dear, Mike…”
The first three words set the tone of condescension and arrogance. Then ‘Mr Lippmann’ gets all “shucks” and folksy as though he’s giving a life lesson an eight year old in the 1950’s.
The CoS is so deluded and out of present time. They have no idea how to communicate to people in a meaningful way. For Mr Lippmann, since you follow Mike and his “followers” so closely, this is for you: Today is the 10th of November 2014. It’s time for you to wake up.
News Flash! Today scientology was shot in the head. Doctors say the bullet missed the brain by six feet.
Wow. It’s posts like your response that keep me coming back to this blog daily. It’s great to see vigorous engagement.
Sorry, Mike, same Walt Lippmann. You see conspiracies all around you.
Why do you keep changing your name and email address Walt? Now it’s a different name and back to the same email address as the first posting? Can’t keep track of your phony addresses?
They couldn’t risk leaving your comment unanswered after Mark Bunker suggested that folk read your analysis at a recent council meeting.
Being UTR and anonymous makes perfect sense for some of us who are still talking directly to fellow Scientologists that are painfully lapping up the lies like hypnotized sheep. We see them spouting trite uninspiring wins after months and months of time and money finishing their redo’s of bridge actions and courses they already did once or twice. For that much effort and wasted time the wins should be mind blowing but instead it’s something like “Finally I can move on! Woo hoo we’re clearing Earth!” or “Wow I won’t say I enjoyed it but at least its done” (actual quote). Funny those aren’t the wins sent out in the mailbox deluge. Or “Now there is so much more to learn on the course!” Really? Reducing the content and dumbing it down to an even lower common denominator and now there is more to learn?
The fact that every certified auditor on Earth has had their certs cancelled and invalidated at least TWICE now if they didn’t jump through the same expensive and time consuming hoops they’ve already jumped through doesn’t dawn on them that only a percentage of trained auditors do these arduous steps repeatedly therefore the number of certified auditors keeps diminishing. Would anyone but an SP create that circumstance? That point really hits previously certified auditors I’ve noticed. All that time and hope and hard work and they earned it then it’s just evaporated and they are back at Student Hat. Pointing out that every other charity out there provides yearly reports of what exactly they did with all their money so why don’t we expect the IAS to provide the same since they are so aggressively in our face demanding our every asset?
I specifically recall Hubbard saying that from new PC to clear just takes a couple months. My experience confirmed that and I was very happy with it. Yet now people are on survival rundown sometimes for MONTHS and again and again try to do a CCRD and fail. Grind those hopeful thetans down into dust eventually they will quit after you squish their every last dime out.
Staying under the radar and pointing out occasionally some of these serious symptoms of an SP at the helm at least makes them have to stutter out some inane justification. For instance did you know LRH endorsed and started the whole fund the Ideal Orgs with donation scheme when he personally bought Saint Hill therefore all good Scientologists must do the same? Yes that is being used to help explain the inanity. Total A=A computation from a group that should be experts at identifying A=A. What I find very interesting is the number of in good standing Scientologists who fully know my viewpoints and yet we still have very uptone and detailed communication about this. They are very much in agreement with some of these observations especially the startling concept that maybe the IAS needs to tell the IAS members where exactly the money is going. The data is percolating in their mind and they return for a little more.
Great post sunnymorning! We might have the same friends in common…
Great post!!
“every other charity out there provides yearly reports of what exactly they did with all their money”
This is a small but ginormous statement. There is so much wrong with Scientology, it is hard to find anything positive. Any charity giving is fleecing money, the rehabilitation takes the form of torture. Whatever you pour your heart and soul into will end up either in a offshore bank account or abandoned building.
Why is anyone still drinking the kool-aide? Everything has changed in the last few years with the explosion of the internet. So many people have fled the spaceship that any aliens left are either jumping off soon or hanging on tighter than ever. The breaking point is almost here. Either you’re on the bus or off the bus. By this time next year anyone who is still slaving to davey will probably never leave.
Brilliant rebuttal Mike – just brilliant.
Tell me this isn’t deliciously tasty! “When the NFL announces the impact study for a Super Bowl game, who provides the numbers that are then crunched by someone? In that case, both the numbers and the crunchers are NFL…”
So what the poster is saying is, don’t listen to sources that are biased. Which means all that baloney about Scientology expansion is the equivalent of a fart in an elevator. Wave your hand and pretend you didn’t deal it.
DAMN, I was out cavorting with my grandchildren this weekend and missed the entire lockstep 😉 following. It’s unfortunate that a lot of us reading your blog usually have gone on to far greener pastures by the time OSAbots have gotten the approval to post their carefully vetted comments. They are always pure comedy gold, though they usually have a passing resemblance to the truth. It’s fun to see poor David Miscavige pee his pants and stomp his feet. Waaah!
No doubt Dave personally typed this post up on one of the most expensive Apple or Windows units that can be had.
After reading your response Mike and replies by the assembled SP “followers”, I’m sure Dave is angry as hell and blaming his laptop for not properly communicating the brilliance that existed in his mind when he wrote this.
Time we dumped these two tech giants and get an honest to goodness ideal computer company going.
“You can safely say that I would never “out” someone and hope they face abuse — while wearing a mask.” No, because what you are doing right now is using a MASK. Idiot.
Ha! They couldn’t just let it go. Someone had to respond back, only providing more asinine childish rhetoric this time! Well, Mr. Lippman/s, keep shooting yourself in the foot. Weird how you’re so anti-aquarium. You’d think you’d be worried about the restim from the clam exhibit or something.
“You’d think you’d be worried about the restim from the clam exhibit or something”.
Good one 🙂 But then, Heidi, if OTs get restimmed, it would just be more money in the cult’s pocket.
God, I so hope this thing gets approved!
I can just imagine how frantic the cult will be to keep all the public the hell out of there, and, as for the SO staff, the aquarium will be strictly off-limits – an evil, suppressive place purposefully put there by Chaos Merchants to destroy planetary clearing, “because we are winning and the SPs can’t stand that”.
This is the kind of crap that will be told in an effort to control the public and staff. I’d bet money on it.
PopcornOrama, people!
The tone of the “comment” couldn’t possibly be more condescending and 1.1. It is pathetic and a laughable attempt at nullification.
Mike – it looks like there are quite a lot of people who would like to see this UTR list published. Please see the comments under the Indie 500 list.
How many of us ARE there?
http://www.scientology-cult.com/declarations-of-independence/268-the-indie-500.html
NOt sure what you are asking? Or saying?
Publishing “this UTR list”?
PS: Funny that they talk about your “dwindling numbers” Mike, when that’s what’s happening with them exactly.
Wouldn’t it be fun to send them your site stats and the size of your mailing list. Your list probably has not only the ‘official’ Indie 500 PLUS the large amount of people under the radar. I’d love to see an article about that – how many are actually out.
Possibly my shortest response.
Mike – “Yet again, you missed and shot yourselves in the foot.”
Literally laughed out loud. This pretty much sums it up.
Oh, and, “Dave, your vanity and vindictiveness are on display yet again.” Ditto.
The very concept of multiple views and facts from multiple sources to attempt a fair, balanced and accurate outcome is obviously foreign to The Lip.
Since the mayor and city officials are already lapping up this flawed study and might use it as a decision making tool affecting non Scientologist residents and businesses in Clearwater, perhaps other experienced academics would be interested and willing to examine this study for analysis.
Professor Steven Kent comes to mind. I would like to see someone from the Florida academic pool to lend a learned opinion as well. One glance at some of the exaggerated numbers and claims along with the response you received prompts me to hereinafter refer to this study as the Clearwater Lip Service Impact.
Oh my my my davey. You seem to be losing your grip. Let me give you some heartfelt advice.
You seem to believe that Power is acquired when people listen to you. What you seem to have missed is that this philosophy falls apart utterly in the modern world. The reason it falls apart is because of a new and quite remarkable invention called, “FACT CHECKING.”
You need to understand, dear davey, that nowadays, when you make bold and false claims, they are going to be fact checked. Just like Ryan Hamilton and the NAFC are doing with your virtually defunct cash-cow Narconon. I seriously doubt that your glowing, but false PR will hold up in court. The facts will win out.
When you utter “millions of members,” these days you are listened to and then laughed at because it’s far too easy to gather the facts. Your utterances, and you personally are merely mocked because it is so obvious that you are lying.
Your claims of 13,000 members in Clearwater are pretty flimsy in the face of the factual photos taken of the crowd (or lack of crowd) at your stupendous Super Power grand opening. People who are not afraid of you are calling you out on your lies resulting in more people mocking you and more people disbelieving everything you say. Do you have any idea of how few people there are who are still afraid of you, Dave? Do you have any idea how few still fall for your lies and fawn at your feet? You might want to do some real fact checking yourself on this.
I doubt you could come up with even 10,000 actual members west of the Mississippi. Am I wrong? Show me the list and I’ll believe you (once I’ve fact checked it for honesty).
And, of course, I should have noted that your friends seeking to intimidate the FSU professors do so under cover of anonymity. What cowardice! You can safely say that I would never “out” someone and hope they face abuse — while wearing a mask. But your gang does.
Well, at least you spelled your name the same this time.
Are you seriously commenting on people doing things “under cover of anonymity” and proclaiming “what cowardice”?
As I have said many times before, a sense of irony, or any real sense of humor is not something a card carrying IAS member can afford.
How do you feel about the Freedom Magazines and the “Religious Hate Watch” site (or whatever its called) that use information from pc folders to smear people? No problem with those I guess, they are obviously the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics, right?
How do you feel about the installation of video cameras to surveil the homes of people the church doesn’t like? Or buying their garbage and sifting through it in a warehouse each week? Does that offend you?
Forcing children to disconnect from their parents and vice versa? All cool with that?
But OMG, don’t let anyone comment under cover of anonymity….
Should I just trash your comments so you don’t offend yourself?
Again, typical for this cult. You might want to clean up your own house before slinging poo.
Don’t you think accusing us gang members of being anonymous is a tad hypocritical Mr. Walter Lippmann???
People in glass prisons should not throw stones.
Mr Miscavige, I presume?
Thank you for coming. You’re giving us a wonderful time. I have never seen so many footbullets going down.
Hmm, Walt, you’re the one who’s anonymous. I gave my full name and contact information when I contacted them. Who are YOU?
” Intimidate the FSU professors do so under cover of anonymity. What cowardice! ”
………………………………..
Walter, Walter, Walter.. You are so wrong on so many level.. I give ya a big ” Flunk.”
Ya don’t intimidate with facts. Facts are telling the truth. We are adults we can present facts without intimidation for God’s sake..We’re NOT in your ” Church” where fear rules. We are enjoying life on the outside.
Freedom Rules. We can go to dinner. We can go to the aquarium..to a movie. We laugh. We work 40 hrs. a week with full pay, benefits and vacation.
I wrote my letter using my full name. Why would I write to them as anonymous. They are NOT the ones that fair game. They aren’t the ones who ruin lives. They don’t cause others to suffer through financial ruin, abuse and family disconnection. Come on now you know how the real world works.
You do remember don’t you?
I for one will be right there in line for the Aquarium . It is the best thing that has happened to Clearwater in a long time. It’s NOT your city. You think it is your city. And that is why you are nothing but a joke.
🙂 😀
What threat to taxpayers are the “unsubstantial claims about the aquarium”? Is the fish going to misuse the Medicare in the same fashion as the CoS?
Still laughing, Snoopy!
They aren’t really interest at the post of Flag. They only try to mislead some posts that they don’t mention. The usual tactic of DM.
Excellent punch back Mr. Rinder.
Unfortunately Mr. Walter Lippmann, aka, The Dense Idiot Who Is Still Running Wild, will never grok a word of your rebuttal. Everything will be twisted and turned and reformed into, I AM King…hear me Roar!
What D’M(onster) doesn’t understand is the disciples are leaving in droves.
Narconon is eating itself up from the inside out.
The Ideally What? buildings are standing empty either in ashes or wearing gold.
His Highest Slaves are coming apart at the seems.
There is nothing left to slap.
We have lives.
We have family and friends.
We have blessings.
You Mr. Mistaken are going to jail.
I grok! Nice post, outraged.
In realtà on sono interessati al posto di Flag. Cercano solo di sviare da qualche altro post di cui non fanno menzione. La solita sordida tattica di DM
I always felt comfortable over the years in Scn when I would be in the
presence of an exec who knew what they were talking about and quite
easily held their position. In those few instances I always walked away
thinking that those execs were the ones truly holding Scn together.
Some big names and others not so well known. But their ability to hold
their position always got my attention and respect.
And you Mike are one of those people.
To add to the above, I have seen those who were in fear of individuals who
could hold their position. I have seen them make complete fools of themselves
trying to stop those whose power they feared so much.
The fearful ones were much more interested in tearing down those few execs than
they were ever interested in advancing the good Scn had to offer.
The few execs that could hold steady were the ones who kept Scn afloat in spite of
the little ones nipping at their heals.
If your site is on the fringes of the Internet, so is scientology. Alexa lists rinderblog at 60,000 and scientology at 54,000. Factoring in the clicks they buy from offshore puts both sites pretty close.
The difference is that after today you will probably pull ahead, while they will founder, just like the Freewinds is sure to do soon.
Wow — if you look at Alexa they have dramatically increased hits on their sites in the last month. They must have been embarrassed. They used to have so much less traffic. But a large percentage has come from India and Denmark(?) and UK. I guess the latter two relate to the IAS event and ideal CLO ribbon cutting and likely some instructions to people to click onto their website. I would not be surprise if Dear Leader had mentioned to CO CLO UK and CO CLO EU how pathetic they were and how their lack of support for scientology.org was a serious blackmark. SO they rounded up some old computers and assigned some SO members to click away 24/7….
I just had a fognition. The Freewinds has actually out lived the famed Apollo by 17 years. Congratulations! Having been on the Apollo in 1974/75 for about a year I can finally understand why. First there was no air conditioning. The food was slop. The Apollo stunk of grime and pretty much crap. But we had a lot of fun. Yeah it was bad, but the Freewinds outlasted the Apollo in hell. amazing.
Brilliant!
I sincerely hope you, along with many,many others are heard by the City of Clearwater and that the aquarium relocates to downtown CW. It will undoubtedly open the door to greater activity in the downtown area. It’s interesting, LRH states stats are held down. For years downtown has been dead. That’s no accident. Now that there is an effort to revive it it’s interesting to see how the COS rears it’s ugly head in opposition. Another datum paraphrased here: one can see how much effort is exerted to hold stats down by the amount of effort exerted to get them up. Also, the stats they use re: salaries. Wonder how much of that is really FSMs for IAS and others paid – in and outside of CW, as opposed to SO members who get paid $50 a week if that. Those salary figures are so obviously manipulated.
Aw Shucks said: “If you cared about Clearwater, you’d take a look at the amazingly unsubstantiated claims about the aquarium and the threat it poses to tax payers.”
What threat could that possibly be? Threat to the TAXPAYERS of Clearwater? That doesn’t make sense at all to me. How can the taxpayers do anything but benefit from a tourist attraction such as this? Anything that BRINGS people to the town, who will stay in hotels, motels, who will eat in the area’s restaurants – i don’t get it, I don’t understand how this could even be arguable as a point. Not trying to even be right about it – I’m frankly stumped how this can even be asserted, you know?
Mike, this is fascinating. I LOVE how you are wiping the floor with old Walter here!
Forget even about tourism, people in the nearby areas visiting, family outings on the weekends, snacks, filling up the gas tank, doing some shopping in town. To continue, salaried jobs created, with these aquarium employees living in Clearwater or nearby, single employees, couples, marrieds with children – I mean, on and on. This is still blowing my mind – how could something like this not be of substantial benefit to the Clearwater ecomomy and withal its community?
Just to play Devil’s Advocate, Aquamarine, the potential threat to taxpayers in a project like this is if it does not bring in enough revenue to justify the expense borne by the taxpayers in building it. For instance, cities hosting the Olympics or the World Cup may find that it was not worth it. The same thing goes for stadium subsidies for sports teams, although that often involves tax breaks for the teams. There may be significant differences between these examples and an Aquarium, but the general idea is the same, to make the expense worth it to the taxpayers.
There you go again, Mike. You inject your aspiration — that I am speaking in some official capacity for Scientology, and that Church officials have vetted (or authored) my words. It just isn’t so. No way, no how. So, you and your twitching band of ne’er-do-wells will have to ponder that.
Nowhere did I say, as you suggest, that everyone lies in these studies. Rather, what I did say — and I have worked with economic impact studies for decades, and similar studies — is that such endeavors almost, if not always, rely on source material from the entities being studied. Reputable and experienced economists, other academics, journalists, public agencies and others need to scrutinize that material. You can look at the CVs for the FSU academics, and it’s pretty clear they know how to do their jobs. There are several items in their conclusions that point to an accurate report and avoid hyperbolic claims. You’re not going to pay attention to such information, but it’s there.
Finally, the overwhelming number of your comments are from anonymous contributors. As is made clear in the initial comments on the FSU study, your band will incite others to intimidate people whose identities are known. When all of your comment makers disclose their IDs, I’m happy to disclose mine. We all enjoy First Amendment rights. Your rather silly “I dare you” attempt to out me is not included in the constitutional protections.
Finally, the illogical tangents in what you write — you probably should think them through. Trying to align proven wrong numbers in aquarium claims, and somehow relate them to Scientology doesn’t work. Your assertions are usually just that.
Well, funny, you don’t even have the same email address as the first “Walt Lippmann” and don’t even spell your name the same. Trolls and more trolls….
I engage in very little “pondering” because the evidence is overwhelming that those who speak for scientology lie. It’s in the DNA of scientology. “The greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” and “never fear to hurt another in a just cause.” I know, I operated on that moral code for decades. That’s why I said, I am an unimpeachable expert on the subject of scientology lies.
We shall see how ready the FSU experts are to put their reputations on the line when they discover they have been lied to.
I shall be expecting to hear from “Walter Lipman”, “Walt Lipman”, “Walter Lippmann”, “Walt Lipmen” and “Wally The Lip” soon as it is clear the trolls have been unleashed.
If mimicry is the highest form of flattery, trolls are the highest form of recognition that scientology is worried.
Mike:
I’ve read the CVs of the FSU researchers, and read some of the principal investigator’s meager publication record. There was no one on the study who apparently holds the academic rank of Professor. This was done by some people in a Center on campus rather than a tenure track academic in, for example, the Department of Economics. I’m a natural scientist, but I have some experience reviewing economic arguments relating to science policy decisions. The Clearwater study has not resulted in any peer reviewed publication and as such has little to no standing in academia. I think everyone will pretty clearly see it as next to work for hire. I’m sure the FSU administration is already uncomfortable with the negative attention this is generating, although an investigative piece in the Tampa Bay Times would be a great step.
Hey! Someone should start using “Wally the Lip” as their username!
Waltina…
Mike, you wrote: “…those who speak for scientology lie. It’s in the DNA of scientology. ‘The greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics’ and ‘never fear to hurt another in a just cause.'”
In earlier posts, I got from you that the main purpose of your blog was to inform those lurkers who are still in the church, and for that reason you discouraged comments such as the above. Did I get that wrong? Or have you changed your mind about it? I thought it was a very worthwhile purpose.
Nothing’s changed. I don’t mean to turn away people by just trashing the subject — but pointing out things they KNOW are true never hurt anyone. There isn’t a scientologist worthy of the name that isnt aware of numerous lies told by those who speak for the church. It’s a continuous parade of them.
I have never discouraged pointing out lies.
Ah! Thanks, Mike. Now I understand. Where you wrote “It’s in the DNA of scientology” and then quoted a couple of LRH datums, I thought you were putting down the datums themselves. Absolutely right that the church delivers a continuous parade of lies, and your blog does a great job of exposing them.
To be clear on what I meant, I should add something (in caps) to this sentence: “Where you wrote ‘It’s in the DNA of scientology’ and then quoted a couple of LRH datums, I thought you were putting down the datums themselves” RATHER THAN THE GROSS MISUSE OF THEM BY THE C of S.
p.s. Excellent blog post, in any case.
Mike,
Priceless….your answer to “Wally the Lip” or whatever spelling as well as your original response to him.
A dedicated admirer of your sharp pen in ongoing cyber feuds…
Greta
I just have a feeling to say thank you Mike. Thank you for your victories in self transformation that inspire others.
No one intuits the power and rightness of truth more than one who thought lies were a good thing, fell from grace from within ones own conscience, laid bare before ones own mind the stark difference between lies and truth, and then adjusted ones own moral conscience accordingly.
What you have accomplished is true wisdom. Darkness is the stepping stool for the sage.
Namaste.
Brian
Please tell me Walt what does the church’s position on the aquarium
have to do with training and processing? I can only assume that the two
main goals for you as a Scientologist is to get trained and go up the processing side of the grade
chart. So how does this aquarium thing have anything to do with your ability
to go up the grade chart? Why engage in it when the real important goals are to move up the
grade chart?
Are there other considerations that are more important than getting trained and moving
up the processing side of the grade chart? If so what are they?
How do I officially join this bitter twitching band of ne’er-do-well apostates lurking in the fringes of the internet who attempt to intimidate others using cloaks of anonymity (which sounds like it might posses real super powers as opposed to, say, an empty building with smelling walls and a running track)?
I can’t wait for the next 17th century insult. Maybe we can add mammering hedge-born joltheads. Quick, assist me in locating the fainting couch before I swoon.
I am getting shades of the Atlantic advertorial debacle from this study and the cult’s attempts at promoting it as somehow a legitimately valid study.
Hey, thanks for posting under, Walley the Lip! Almost sounds gangster…
Dear Mr. Lippy,
You will need to contact Julian Schwartz over at AOLA and get you official membership paper. You will know it when you see it. It is printed on goldenrod and it will say nasty things about you which are lies
You only need to have this to officially join us bitter twitching fringe dwellers as your writing style has already been approved by upper management.
Well, than Walt Lippman, why can’t you add a bit of facts to the discussion here and put an end to exhausting yourself in bloated speak?
At least you seem to admit that FSU did screw up in vetting the data they got from the CO$ before they put their name on it. How otherwise could they be “intimidated” by critical questions on their methods and acceptance of unreliable, unverified data?
Any professional having done a piece of work to professional standards will find critical questions helpful as it allows him to showcase the due diligence and the professional work that went into his product and make his position stronger. These people love critical questioning.
Only those who went for a quick buck and did not do good work are “intimidate-able”. And as such you seem to admit that this is the case with the CO$ FSU impact study.
I’m so glad to be a “follower” of this blog 🙂
Dear Mike, Well done. The Jenny Linson football is in motion.
When you get TA ,continue the process.
Keep up the good work.
Ha ha…the Midget IS reading everything everyone posts!
Neener neener, made you look.
I wish there was an edit option: the typos in my last post are embarrassing. (I’ll get over it.)
Robin, no worries! Your still awesome! And I’m having ‘senior moments’ on an hourly basis! Plus it’s hard for me to see the words that I write. Why sometimes, I….ummmm, I…oh crap. Forget it.
Too much hyperbole being flung around here.
Yes, McCarran, but the smell is delightful…
My favorite part (and I mean I really LOVE it) is when the posters (or Rathun harassers) say: “No one is paying attention to what you’re doing or saying, so you should stop it.”
I think this deserves a special award for blatant stupidity. They wouldn’t now you or Marty are doing or saying things until they were paying attention. And what what they’re rally saying is “We’re listening!”
They know others are listening (and reading) too. But it so much fun to see their righteousness come out as they twist the truth to suit their fantasy (or their ethics condition).
Also, the “no one really cares” evil mantra is apparently the “cave in command of choice” from these disciples of man’s best friend.
They said the same thing to Marty. They are apparently getting together and gathering their “OT powers” into a fevered pitch and saying “oh boy, this will cave them in!”
They are deluded little madman warring with the evil tools provided to them by the greatest liar of them all.
Disciples take on the characteristics of the teacher. Lying is a holy sacrament in Scientology.
Ron is source.
I think that is Davy’s secret nightmare, so he thinks it is something that would wound others. What could be worse for Davy than finding out that nobody knows or cares who he is?
I think everyone cares who he is with the same interest that we love Mafia and Nazi movies.
Davey’s karma is to think like a narsicist and demand worship from mindless slaves, while the real world knows he’s bat shit crazy.
I keep seeing him in my minds eye walking fast and furiously down hallways, stepping hard and yelling with face all squished and angry trying to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.
These folks are in a hypnotic trance. A very deep state of misery.
Bravo Mike!
It would seem that all that is neccessary to bring down this empire of hate is to continue to allow them to express themselves publically.
The stench of their lies becomes more obvious the more they reveal themselves publically.
It only a matter of time.
“truth, though always fought, always in the end prevails”
I don’t doubt for a minute that any “studies” commissioned by the city will exaggerate the positive impact of a tourist attraction. Politicians have an undying love for large, taxpayer funded projects. But that is not the point. What I find amazing is the audacity of the CoS to step in and purport to speak for the best interests of Clearwater. A group with that level of disdain for any and all non-members – a disdain that is taught at very early stages of membership – cares only about its own interests, which interests are very much in opposition to the rest of the community.
“Finally, it’s instructive how your lockstep followers suggest extortion and intimidation as means to respond to the economic impact study. High level discourse there.”
No, we just like to see Mike expose your criminality and kick your sorry asses into oblivion.
Corporate Scientology is an embarrassment to reason.
LOL !!!! +100
There is a funny aspect to the way the church communicates. There is this assumption that you need only communicate with enough intention, and perhaps repetition (TR3), and your message will be duplicated, i.e. received and fully understood (and preferably also adopted) by the recipient.
Regrettably, that assumption leaves the recipient out of the equation. True, the perceived or imagined tone level is considered – but what about the educational level, information and knowledge available to said recipient(s)? When you factor those in, the “church’s” PR comes across like an ineffectual hissy fit.
When attempting to convince others of one’s own rightness, it is extremely helpful to be able to stand in their shoes. Fortunately, this church is utterly incapable of doing so, and apparently does not have one single authorised person to fill this gap.
Fortunate indeed.
“There is a funny aspect to the way the church communicates. There is this assumption that you need only communicate with enough intention, and perhaps repetition (TR3), and your message will be duplicated, i.e. received and fully understood (and preferably also adopted) by the recipient.”
I’d noticed the repetition (who hasn’t?) and also how they make the same points in the same order every time. And the odd use of profanity to escalate… odd because it’s predictable and the whole point of profanity (to most people) is to be less predictable. But I didn’t realize this was part of the Church’s teaching? I learned something here.
Bravo, Mike!
Tick tock, sciloontology…..
Mike, as an Old Surfer Dude, all I can say to you regarding your response to the cult is, you are one bitchin’ dude. In surf lingo, that’s the highest compliment I can give you. My admiration for you is beyond measure. I’ll NEVER forget my first post to you on your blog and your response. You truly have a heart as big as all outdoors. I’m so proud to be part of this group!
Thanks OSD. Someday we shall break bread (and a beer or two…)
At least! But probably a whole lot more!
I’m thinkin the party should be starting soon.
I was thinking the same thing, Coop! As always, my place is open to all.
Groovey. 🙂
OSD, What do you think about a few beers and dinner over at the Angeles National Golf Club in Sunland say this Saturday evening about 6:00 PM? I understand that the entertainment will be free!
Bravo and LOL. Scientology is destined for failure with its adolescent attitude.
Well Mike, this indeed confirms for me that Miscavige reads this blog. So let me say this:
Dave, I’m going to give you some advice I wouldn’t normally give. Take the money and run. Do your New Years Eve event and bail. You no longer have anyone, aside from your attorneys, with any skill, talent, sense or ability surrounding you. The only good people still in are hurting.
You see, all of your talent is out here, with us. Mike can eviscerate you in a few paragraphs. Marty clearly has your number as shown by the recent LAX video (currently at 600,000+ views). I know Ortega drives you up a wall. Karen is killing you, and Jeff Augustine is doing great work. All of these people, and countless others who document your crimes are gaining more attention every day. Outside of your bubble, Scientology is a joke. No one is going to be “booming” orgs ever again.
I know for a fact more lawyers are starting to get interested in your deeds against people. I’ve known several people who found one article about Scientology and went down the rabbit hole to find out the true horrors of your organization. You have very few ‘wins’ left to be had.
Sooner or later, all those government agencies you hide from will come after you. The multiple court cases against you and your criminal enterprise will get the Feds attention eventually. For all you know, they’re already watching and waiting for one of those cases to pierce your corporate veil, it saves them a lot of time and trouble that way.
But if, in your narcissistic way, you decide to fiddle while Rome burns…all I can say is, enjoy the Federal Penitentiary.
😀
From the comments by Captain David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige bout “the 1.1 club” I think he’s looking forwards to prison. That certainly explains what he’s still doing in the US…
and folks THAT bit of genius by Mike is WHY people listen, post and leave the cult! Thank you Mike, again.
David Miscavaige would feel at home in North Korea.
Not if he were the no. 2 man or less ……………… which he always is and will be.
Coop (responding to email higher in chain). Lol! I am sure OSA has its own Blacklist…. # 1 Marty Rathbun, aka The Squirrel. #2 Mike Rinder aka, The Apostate Blogger # 3 Debbie Cook aka The Bitter Blond….you get the idea. Though, with Dave’s expansive vocabulary, I am sure there are a few F bombs and SCOHBs in there….
Dear Dave, Regarding your lies, criminality and insanity, “How else did you justify it?”
Wow what does he who shall not be named expect the result of this comment to be? That readers would even see his comment unless Mike pointed it out and replied? That certainly shows Scientology’s effective PR online. Did he expect that readers would think to themselves that the comment makes sense and side with the Scientology? That Mike wouldn’t reply and would only read it, admit defeat to himself, then immediately shut down his blog and stop committing suppressive acts full time like Marty did recently? That readers would just eat up all the bullshit contained in that comment? Oh I see how that comment makes SOO much sense and Mike was so completely wrong – wait, no David. This, like all formal media responses from the church (and most all of the Church’s attempts at marketing and promo to anyone outside the bubble), is completely TERRIBLE public relations. But you keep churning this shit out. This sounds like something in Scientology called a service facsimile. I’m sure you know all about them because there are Scientologists who think you are OTXXXXXXXXXXIIIIIIIIIIIIII. But this isn’t one of your events where you can attempt to continuously pull the wool over people’s eyes while you soak up the applause that your lies produce. Can you stop lying to everyone and possibly even yourself?
Your warped ego driven constant need for winning false praise that exudes from your core is resulting in nothing other than a battle with your own delusions. You are attempting to “conquer” by lying, cheating, manipulating, stealing, neglecting, deceiving, degrading, harassing, abusing and destroying…. And it’s ruining my fucking life and the lives of people I care about. So, YOU stop committing ACTUAL suppressive fucking acts full fucking time. This “mind fucking the flock” needs to fucking stop. Too many have taken all their money, time, blood, sweat and tears, and given them to lie after lie after lie. I want the people I love to not live a lie and/or in fear of you and your thinly veiled mind fuckery. I want the people that I love to be able to think, be, act and have for THEMSELVES and for those who ACTUALLY deserves their love because it is reciprocal. I want to be able to freely communicate without fear that I will lose everything because of other’s misplaced allegiance to the vindictive, deceitful, manipulative nothing that you are.
Guess what? If you “win” by force while deceiving and manipulating, you don’t actually win. And you will go to your grave with nothing and no one, because anyone who really knows you, fucking hates you, and anyone who cares about you, actually cares about someone else, because the real DM is a ruthless, conniving, petty fuck who gets praised for nothing but fraud. You can actually resign from your post as COB (a first since everyone else in Scientology staff history has either blown, gotten demoted, dismissed, removed, comm-eved, declared, etc,), and not just resign, but get a promotion. You can announce you are going to the even more senior post that LRH ordered be started in 2015 where you take the necessary years of confidential preparations for his return, which is therefore the REAL future of Scientology. While in reality you live out your years focussed on your hobbies somewhere that you won’t be recognized (lots of places since you are actually meaningless to the world). You can appoint a successor with the instructions that the disconnection policy was supposed to be cancelled (whether it ever was or wasn’t) and that fundraising is against policy, so that people can at least live their fucking lives. Or you can go out the way all past villainous dictators have while striving to win a pointless and imaginary battle against your own delusions. Either way just fucking get it over with.
And btw Mike I loved your reply and what you do.
One stat that is truly highest ever and rocketing towards another galaxy is the number of people laughing at David Miscavige.
🙂
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Hey, DAVID MISCAVAGE, the world is laughing at YOU, not with YOU! BTW, how’s that adulterous relationship with Lou going? Ummmm…isn’t that what you call, out ethics?
Just wondering…
Dave,
Time to get your life organized. Have Shelly, Jenny and Lou worn you out?
OSD,
For Davey I think it is more along the lines of out tech.
Firstly, the “aquarium people” have a “feasibility study” that the Church wants to see? So where is the feasibility study on getting hundreds of millions in donos for various campaigns by the Church out of tens of thousands of members? Or was the Church feasibility study something like this “Just keep demanding until everyone turns up empty for real”. How does an organisation that operates on “Command Intention” and precious little else bar fake stats, get all high and mighty about the “aquarium people”? Where is the list of names of the 10 million members of the Church? ….which has apparently “47X’ed” since GAT II? Where is the board of Directors of the Church? Where is Shelley? Where is OT9 etc? How many OT7’s on the big list are dead, declared, disaffected? Where are the books in libraries? “You can’t believe anything in this” applies to the PR put out by the Church.
Secondly, “Lippmann” does not say why the Church and an aquarium cannot co-exist. I guess one good reason is that the Church is all the “fishy” that Clearwater can tolerate.
Excellent series of articles on this topic, Mike!
My apologies if this has already been noted, but ‘Walter’ said 250,000 less than 800,000…. That would be 550,000, right? Not 450,000.
Even if the aquarium is 25% off, that is much better than any Co$ numbers!
Corrected, was late last night and Homeland messed with my head….
I need to start watching Homeland……. I am currently involved in The Blacklist…..great show!
Chee, Is that the one showing at the Idle Morgue OSA Offices?
“though I am certainly an unimpeachable authority on the subject of scientology lying.”
That says it all Mike. In my book that makes you the highest authority on all things scientology.
Dear “Walter”,
Citing Freedom as a source of information means you instantly lose any and all credibility.
ML,
The Internet
Well, that is a good point that I should have included. Inside the bubble, the lockstep thinking goes like this: if it is an official church pronouncement, it is true. And because the bubbledwellers go along with this, they actually believe that those outside their bubble will ALSO think that way if they tell them to. The real thing they have not learned is that OUTSIDE the scientology bubble, people CAN think for themselves. Inside it, thinking for yourself is heresy.
My my, the TA is moving I see, well done Mike.
What gets me about the people in the organisation known as Scientology is that they generalise that everything they don’t like is an attack on them. WRONG! like most generalisations.
If policy was followed in the Church and management by statistics was employed as LRH dictated (let alone evaluation by the Data Series) the most obvious conclusion would be reached immediately – get rid of miscavige! He is not Scientology! He’s altered Hubbard’s writing, introduced courses that delay, perverted the technology – the prime example being the redefinition of the FN and put money before results.
Hey guys, your leader needs to be stripped of command and sent to ethics and LRH policy restored along with the original checksheets and technical line up. Make some auditors , clear some PCs and get some results and watch how easy handling your attackers will become. In other words make some friends, your enemy list grows daily.
Miscavige has declared all the LRH trained Class XII’s along with over 50 of the original Saint Hill staff – doesn’t that strike you as odd! Grow a pair and save your subject, miscavige is killing it!
Mike Rinder, You are one adorable guy. Loved this response.
🙂
Mike… How you have the strength to dissect Dave’s ecclesiastically seasoned hypocritical verbal diarrhoea I will never know.
Words are cheap I know… but I thank you and your family from the bottom of my heart.
And Dave… Smile… We’re watching you…
Cris, always nice to hear from you. Appreciate your kind words and intelligent comments.
I am not,nor have I ever been,a scientologist. What I am is against human rights abuses…and the stories of disconnection and abuses are so very sad and appalling..I absolutely admire all of you “sp’s”..for being so brave and speaking up…wonderful reporting Mike.I read your blog every day and this piece is tops.very very good,love the bawling baby posted with Slappy’s rebuttal! Kudos to you and all the others for speaking out against the horrors of this cult. There is one person in the Pacific Northwest who is with you guys in spirit! I am a commited reader and I tell everyone I know to stay far from the so called church of scientology if they value their family,freedom,and wallets. Thanks again for raising awareness
Thanks Chrissy. Good to know and I appreciate your kind words.
Hi Mike,
Although I am not, nor have ever been, a $cn; I am quietly addicted to watching you, and the brave band of those-who-escaped, work tirelessly to expose this cult. Your postings, and rebuttals, are outstanding. I read their post with great interest, in particular, I was wondering if they are masters of MESTAG (matter-energy-space-time-and-grammar). Apparently not.
We, DownUnder, salute you!
Thank you Felicity. MESTAG 🙂
What a smarmy comment. Followers? What we have here is a bunch of delightfully unique individuals, who demand the right to think freely, speak freely and associate freely. We are united in our disgust and intolerance of those who would destroy lives, or a helpful therapy, so they can control, deceive and exploit. To the fake Walter, just get a sign and paint “the end is nigh” on it and walk around until you have a realization.
Smarmy is right. The mood music of this Scientology response is just plain creepy. “Oh, dear, Mike, you know very little”…” You’re not going to believe any of this — or perhaps you do”…”facts don’t really matter to you”…”Your own little gaggle of followers ” … “No one really cares” etc etc.
It’s beyond childish. It’s oh, I remember – 1.1 anybody?
Not just anybody Martin, 1.1 IAS status seeker and member of a fanatical cult.
Michael, you have a simple, but deadly effect in the use of words, my cyber-friend!! 🙂
Words that pare off all the bullshit emanating from Miscavige, like an expert chef pares all the meat from the bone, before serving a roast to his patrons. Of course, the big differences being, that 1) Said chef genuinely knows what is needed, wanted and appreciated. 2) Said chef, doesn’t need — bodyguards and bullet proof vehicles, an army of slaves, or highly paid legal eagles, or 3) Painstakingly culled confessional material, to extort penance (loot) from his ‘parishioners’ or 4) A billion dollar ‘WAR!!!! chest, (IAS) or 5) a PR machine that precedes his every ‘public’ move, etc.etc.— essentially just to protect him, and serve his every whim on a platinum platter.
Gourmet meal choices on offer here?
# Miscavige’s Mind-controlling, fleeced, minced sheeple pie, served with beans and rice (naturally) on a circular, bridge-shaped bathroom floor, for the much lauded, perception enhancing, “meal experience of a lifetime” — eating off a bathroom floor, and savoring
the biotic thrill of licking said floor spotlessly clean with one’s tongue!
# For dessert, there is a container filled with a choice of the most delectable audio-enhanced IAS video presentations, featuring none other than His Grand Eminence, The Chairman Of The Bored, in a mind bending array of 176,938,512 facts, (fabrications), presented in an ear-blasting, staccato of HIS unmistakable, hypnotic drone, (delivered as a gesture of HIS honored generosity, you unappreciative c$^@S(@&*g ass-holes!!)
# For a wind down, HIS Eminence has decreed that you may, (if you have forked over sufficient loot beforehand, of course), have the honor of doing 66,437 laps around a head-hunter’s totem pole, consisting of the skulls of his smitten enemies, just to remind you of the severe penalties, of failing to follow HIS orders to secure your “eternity!”
# Drinks. A choice of being overboarded, or tossed in the lake, all served with ice!
# the ‘bill’, — ‘sir’. $1,264,469.00. Cash or cc.? That IS in advance, remember,..’sir!’
* * * * * * * *
I’d far rather sit down to a simple, healthy roast and a beer prepared and served by you any day, Mike. Cheers! 🙂
— Calvin.
This is all taken out of context due to an unfortunate typo: “Oh, dear, Mike” should read “Oh, Dear Mike,”
Hey, Mikey, they like you!
Yo, nice post Jimmy 3X. However, Pauly in Jersey wants to talk wit you.
Walter Lippmann the man vs. “Walter Lippmann” (David Miscavige) the pseudonym:
Walter Lippmann was an American journalist and intellectual who graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Harvard, with a dual major, in three years.
David Miscavige is a high school dropout.
Walter Lippman spoke fluent German and French.
David Miscavige speaks only English.
And, based on his speeches, even that’s debatable.
Walter Lippmann on the subject of leadership: “The final test of a leader is he leaves behind him in other men the conviction and the will to carry on.”
David Miscavige’s people, from Heber to Ray to Guillaume to (most recently) Linson, Yeager, and Bloomberg, appear just a mite too tired to do much carrying on.
Walter Lippmann on power: “The first principle of a civilized state is that the power is legitimate only when it is under contract.”
David Miscavige on power: “I’ll tell you what power is. Power in my estimation is if people will listen to you. That’s it.”
Oops.
Other quotes from Mr. Lippmann:
“A man has honor if he holds himself to an ideal of conduct though it is inconvenient, unprofitable, or dangerous to do so.”
“When all men think alike, no one thinks very much.”
“We are all captives of the picture in our head– our belief that the world we have experienced is the world that really exists.”
“Many a time I have wanted to stop talking and find out what I really believed.”
“There is no arguing with the pretenders of divine knowledge and a divine mission. They are possessed with the sin of pride.”
And finally:
“The opposition is indispensable. A good statesman, like any other sensible human being, always learns more from his opposition than from his fervent supporters.”
Under the circumstances, Mr. Miscavige, you may want to choose a different pseudonym. One more in line with your actual beliefs.
May I suggest Caligula?
Awesome comment War Horse. The sin of pride indeed.
Great quotes. Wonderful suggestion.
+1
Very nice, Warhorse! Between your and Mike’s response, I need to say nothing else.
David Miscavige doesn’t speak English…Shermanspeak.
BAM! Slappy gets slapped down! Do you think that the Tiny Terr(i)or has any idea what a laughing stock he is to everyone in the real world? Is he so enmeshed in the bubble that he truly believes his own Shermanspeak? The fringes of the internet? He’s soaking in it . . .
Wow, thanks for highlighting that comment, Mike – I probably would have missed it, buried as far down as it was. I guess I’m just not a very good “lockstep follower” 😛
“Walter Lippmann’s” comment is an illuminating look into church management’s state of mind. And, of course, church management pretty much means David Miscavige. It reads like one of those turgid screeds in Freedom Magazine.
I wrote out a long comment, but then I deleted it. There’s nothing I can say that expresses the state of Scientology better than just reading that sorry comment.
I keep wondering why “Walter Lippman” was the chosen name for this tirade? The actual author was certainly not a Pulitzer prize winner, as was the real Lippman (twice) nor would anyone in scio have ever won the Presidential Freedom Award, as did Lippman. This fake doesn’t know the meaning of the word “freedom”. Virtually all of these folks were – at best – very young children when Lippman passed on and surely know nothing of him now. Very odd choice.
Dear Mike,
Thank you immensely for responding to DM. The picture I got was surely this:
Your words in retort forming a barbed baton of truth, DM bending over to recieve it with utmost resistance- resistance is FUTILE Dave! I just love that picture cause DM shall be karmas bitch in the end, oh yeah!
Lest my crassness runnaway with me I would like to add a big warm thank you to Mike for writing and documenting the RCS implosion so eloquently! Seriously Mike you have a gift for the scriven word. Why havent you written a best seller yet?? Make some $$ and make one SP howl it would!
You forgot to mention something in your retort. I will say it for you. Mike has voluteers who support him that genuinely like him. Davie boy has zombies and zealots who genuinely fear him. Now aint that a bitch!!
“Sadly, you sound like Jenny Linson at LAX — “no one really cares.” Clearly, this is disproven by your comment. You really DO care. Just as clearly, it is a dead giveaway that this piece came from the same author as the person who put words in the mouth of Jenny Linson.”
This.
“Dave, your vanity and vindictiveness is on display yet again.”
And this. These were my exact thoughts too as I read, Mike. “Well, shucks…” (who says that?)
Thanks for giving this comment its own posting.
Another typical Miscavige wording is “[the information was] … vetted and reviewed over many months by academics who have many, many combined years of examining such information”.
Can be found in almost any of his speeches. He always must make anything appear huge. By this logic 100 six-year-old toddlers with a combined experienced of 600 years would make great experts.
I wonder what the combined number of years of LYING would be for the Church of Scientology. And in the words of David Miscagive: “There you have it”.
George you have to count the many past lives of those sci-toddlers too. After all 90% of them were famous historic personae and that needs to be factored in. At least five of them will figure out they were Machiavelli when they have done enough auditing and he knew a thing or two about economic impacts.
Mike, beware Jenny is coming after you! I know you don’t care.
🙂
Dave sent her once and she ran away when law enforcement was called by the doctor.
Doubt she will show up again.
After her LAX exhibition, I think she will be knee deep in dirty pots and pans for a while.
Draco, I’m thinkin’ what, 3 or 4 years?
Pots and pans on her holiday …… toothbrushes on the inside of Dave’s Dumpster for regular pay grade.
Fucking-A Mike! You get ’em!
Mr Rinder,
I got to tell you, you really know how to defend yourself. That’s was an excellent reply indeed. Even though I disagree with many of your methods, I have to validate effectiveness when I see it and learn from the professionals.
The Phoenix
My methods?
You don’t like my carwashing technique?
The sequence in which I shop at the supermarket?
Which methods?
ROTFL – 🙂 🙂 🙂 – Touché!
Get back in your hole Phoenix. Would you know a method if it bit you in the ass?
+ 1
Bravo Mike !
You stepped on davy boy’s tail and it shows that he really cares – ‘nobody’ cares.
Let us see if FSU cares?!?!
Send email to authors of the fabricated report …
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
PLUS
http://president.fsu.edu/Senior-Staff
Link to FSU Ethics hotline page
https://secure.ethicspoint.com/domain/media/en/gui/32441/index.html
Let us all (who cares) send email to above FSU email addresses.
Thank you for these links.
Abi Ja, can you let me know the gender of reach recipient so I can respond to them appropriately?
I’m embarrassed I ever went back to these guys asking for forgiveness. OSA will lift anyone’s declare if you dish a bit on some others. Well I’m done with it. It wasn’t worth it. I did it so I could see my family, but now my family is waking up…so whatcha gonna do now OSA?!?!
You’ve got nothing on me now! So suck it!
Screw OSA & screw DM. Scientology is brainwash / control mechanism. The more people who leave, the better.
Congratulations and best wishes to you and your family. Hoprfully you are all now free of their clutches. Great news.
Way to tell ’em, Amy!
Thanks for joining us here Amy. Welcome and congratulations. No need to be embarrassed. Those who should really be embarrassed are the ones who are still acting like clubbed seals, applauding and yelping every time they are thrown another rotting bit of pufferfish and told it is fresh caught salmon.
“still acting like clubbed seals, applauding and yelping every time they are thrown another rotting bit of pufferfish and told it is fresh caught salmon”, i love it Mike. Self-determination into sado-masochism straight down and vertical.
Amy, that’s such good news. So happy for you guys. Keep it up!
You go, girl!
Yay Amy! So glad your family is waking up. Wish you many happy free years ahead!
+1
Kickin ass and takin names!! Way to go girl. I’m a new fan of yours.
Congratulations Amy!! You are now officially free of this Evil Cult.
Screw them is right!!
What goes around comes around. Mr. Dickface will face his own karma.
Great Amy. My best wishes to you.
Great Amy!
mike, a great response.
+1
Damn Mike! Good response!
Yes, it’s very obvious that they care very much about what you are saying here and what your “followers” think and do. It is Scn inc that is shrinking like crazy – they are losing members hand over fist and it’s driving Miscavige crazy because the only thing he lives for is having people listen to him. Without that, all his money and his fancy clothes and cars don’t mean anything.
Mike, we’re sure that Miscavige reads this blog or is at least briefed on it and the comments on it. Probably is still pissing him off no end that you’re alive and kicking and speaking out. Who knows what awfulness rained down on Linson and her crew for the airport fiasco. Do you think that response from “Walter Lippman” was actually straight from him or just written by one of his minions and approved by him?
I took one thing away from the $cn response, which is that “facts” that come from a source with a vested interest cannot be trusted. Yet $cn hopes that we will trust their facts. Is there a problem here?
What a great work of logic and rebuttal and shedding truth to the lies, Mike! You exposed this mouth piece of the church who hides behind a pseudonym (pen name). “Yet again, you missed and shot yourselves in the foot.” So true. Keep up the good work, Mike!
As has been said, Mike, “Touché, Monsieur Pussycat”! Very well done. It’s so true, they never learn. LOL
Learning isn’t needed if one has enough knowingness!
Obviously, they never read this. “Talk to the naysayer? Have an intelligent conversation, stating the truth?” Oh yeah. I forgot that the truth doesn’t make them look very good. My bad.
http://www.thrivemovement.com/debunking-debunkers.blog
“Another popular Internet radio host, who has acknowledged that he disseminates information for the government, launched into a completely false attack on me during a panel at a large conference. I was elsewhere giving my presentation, but someone who knows me was present and confronted him with facts while pointing out his divisive tone. To his credit, when I confronted him respectfully, but firmly, he apologized. I went on his show with the agreement I could address all the falsehoods. His listeners were very supportive and the incident was healed.
The lesson I have gained is that sometimes, when we have confronted the debunkers without malice or personal attack, but with clarity, we have often been able to raise the level of interaction.”
Without malice and personal attack? Where’s that in the David Miscavige play book? Talk about a pie face, Mike. That’s what DM might have if his expensive, high end PR guys said he had to debunk you without malice and personal attack. haha THEN he would rage like Hitler.