Another tough episode. That was an example of the “ideal” scientology family. About as successful as their “ideal” orgs.
It will be a bit of a breather next week as we take a look at Miscavige’s rise to power.
Elizabeth Gale is a courageous, strong, woman, mother and role model. We will be waiting (probably not for more than a few minutes) for the hate videos and smear site to go up that the busy little OSA beavers have been working on. Of course, every time they put them up they prove what is being exposed about them. But they don’t care because they “know” (because L. Ron Hubbard told them so) that this is the “right” thing to do. Eventually the rest of the world will come to their senses and join the scientology team and all will be well.
And in the interim, the world sees what they do. It’s their words and actions in response to the abuses that are exposed that are in some ways MOST damaging to their cause. They claim as their defense that “everyone is lying” and the abuses are made up. That they are really loving, family-first, kind and gentle people who are helping the world. They rely on “they claim this” and it’s “our word against ours.” And then they go and prove they are NOT kind and gentle, they spew hate even when they don’t need to.
Once again, thanks to Liz Gale for being willing to stand up and be counted. Without her and the other contributors none of this would be seeing the light of day.
Every contributor knows that any remaining scientology friends they may have had will instantly disconnect (even though “that practice is not part of scientology”) and that some of those old friends are going to be dragged out of mothballs to say things about them… They won’t be true, they will be scripted and put N. Korean POW videos to shame, but they will hurt nevertheless. That is what they are intended to do. Hurt.
Scientology has no limit on its willingness to “attack the attacker.” But it is comforting to remember as they careen on down the path of self-destruction, every action they take to shame the victims moves them closer to finally driving off the inevitable cliff.
I would love to hear your views about the episode.
And also as I always do, for anyone newly coming to this blog, I include some relevant links to earlier blog articles.
To begin to understand the mindset scientologists have about those who criticize any part of it, read this article:
Dealing with Critics of Scientology — The L. Ron Hubbard Playbook
And then read this one:
And here is a fairly short explanation of how disconnection is used in scientology (and how they try to spin the practice):
Disconnection: the PR and the Truth
An overview of the efforts by scientology to smear Leah Remini:
Scientology Dead Agents* Itself
And finally this is a post about the lies they tell about their “expansion”:
First, I want to commend each of you for having the courage to make your stories known. I know the cost of leaving a toxic relationship with loved ones behind for the sake of sanity.
I’m posting because I have a question for Liz, Mike, Leah, and other participants from the TV program. How great a risk is it to expose Scientology and reveal your stories on television and on the internet as you are doing? Are there credible risks to your safety and to the safety of your spouses or children as well as to yourself?
Great work all support t to those doing this Question is now the stories of some have been exposed what actions of authorities if involved now will be done to actually go and see for themselves what is going on,
e g: access to be seen from within since this exposure would be essential
The courage to seek an expose the truth when you feel all is lost speaks volumes.
Those that do not speak out, who do not defend their so called truth are tge cowards.
Lions ROAR! Chickens, run an hide in the coop.
This episode broke my heart. I want to thank you Mike and Leah for exposing us to this and of course Liz for being so open and sharing your story. It truly touched and broke my heart. Hearing of the several times in Liz’s life in which her mother abandoned her and her brother is just completely insane.
It also makes me sick how the church handles mental illnesses.
To the CoS: PEOPLE WHO ARE MENTALLY ILL NEED REAL HELP. PEOPLE STRUGGLING WITH DEPRESSION OR BIPOLAR OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE NEED REAL HELP. Not the Scientology crap you spew down their throats. That just makes everything worse.
And for God sakes, allow these people to grieve when they lose someone they love. You don’t know how much damage you are doing to these people. It makes me sick.
Keep exposing the church Mike and Leah. You are reaching so many people!
I would like to thank Leah and Mr Rinder for these last shows.
I had thoughts of suicide for a large part of my 23 years in the SO. This was not all the fault of the Church, but they did little to handle it and did much to generate it, especially in the last few years.
In the end I almost died of AIDS I received from blood products in Curacao, the ship’s home port. They did nothing to get me proper medical treatment and actually pulled me away from proper treatment. This was close to attempted murder.
But driving a person to suicide is, in my opinion, worse than outright murder. They tried, and almost killed my body. But these victims on the show, they killed their souls slowly, painfully, over a period of years. It takes real evil to do that. Finally, when they had stolen all hope from these people and left them with no other out, they took their own lives. Only a monster would knowingly do that.
Hi Mike!
I hope that you are able to take an emotional breather after the last few episodes. Both my daughter and myself can see the impact it has in your eyes as they start to get red and shiny. I would be too and lunging over the couch to hug the person your interviewing and not let them go until your done. Makes for lousy TV though.
For me, my heart hurts for the Liz Gale as the surviving sister. She knows the pain her brother was in and is left with survivors’ guilt for all the things that were not said between them. The anger I have at her mother is another issue. As a mother of 2 adult children and grandmother of 2, the blood sacrifice of her son to Scientology is a gross, abuse of a life. She has more love for a dead megalomanic than she did for her live son.
Yep, the “Church” will come out with guns blazing in another attempt to blame the victim, her mother will make a pathetic statement about how confused and sick her son was or some such blather Her “friends” may get presented her dead agent file to dig up some memory a long time ago to mention in a “poor Liz, she’s so screwed up and it’s all the SP’s fault” BS. Its SICK.
To Liz, I am so sorry for your loss, but your bravery is something that I am in awe of. Thank you for sharing your story. For what it is worth, I am behind you and support you. The best revenge is to live well. It really pisses them off.
Mike and Leah, I love you guys! I worry about you too. Please take care of you. We can see it’s a hard fight. The more I learn from you and other folks the more amazed that you got out with your sanity intact.
Take good care, you have my support and prayers,
Wendy
Thank you again Leah and Mike for opening yet another door into the horrors that occurred and are still occurring. So much pain but a survivors story. Liz you are an amazing lady telling your story to millions, my heart aches for you and for all who are affected by this cult. While reading some of the articles Mike has suggested on the topic of the S.P.. Love the statement about how S.P.’s are trying to destroy all that is good on earth and enslave mankind” the Scn’s should have a new slogan ” Scientology here to oppress and enslave mankind ” And the 1967 Fair game policy highlighting “THE ENEMY” S.P. order. Fair game may deprive of property or “INJURED”, that is no less a low life gang like MS-13 or the Crips tactic. They wrote a policy to stop fair gaming but in the same memo stating ” P/L does not cancel ANY policy or treatment of handling of S.P.’s. This what they call out on the streets as “green lighting ” kill orders. And this not a crime? Loved the ” Critics of Scientology” entries ” And so individuals, governments and “scientists” attack scientology. It is as simple as that. We do not treat the sick or insane. In one country we have almost exactly 100 Scn’s for every member and supporter of pyschiatry. These statements made by LRH are pure lunacy. LRH was delusional and more than likely suffering from some form of Schizophrenia. Hey D.M. put your big boy pants on its going to be a bumpy ride to jail.
Great show. The story was told very well. Elizabeth totally has her personal integrity and understands one has to do what ever is needed in order to get free of Scientology. Great advise to others caught in the trap.
I agree Matt. Elizabeth and her family set a wonderful and much needed example of how life should be lived and that standing up to oppressive thought stopping cults and groups is key to a free and happy life.
I really hope at some point in this series Leah will tell the “you don’t have the fucking rank” story as it went down.
Yes, only the cult tells the truth. Everyone else does nothing but lie about the cult. Unless its complimentary, which of course it never is. So, ALL criticism of the cult is ALWAYS fake news. Oh, the cult NEVER has to deal in specifics. Generalities only, at all times. That’s all they need to get their stupid sheep riled up. Its really sickening. They’re just so stupid. Oh, and speaking of stupid, it seems to me that Our Favorite Cult doesn’t have the market cornered on this “always attack, never defend” stratagem along with the indefatigable generalities. As I said, its pretty sickening and disheartening. If I didn’t have to live where I do for business reasons I would move to some civilized European country. I’ve lived outside of the US before and been very happy. I could easily not live here.
Mike, another great episode.
One thing I REALLY liked was the clips of COS response to episode 2. I think it is something all should see to really understand how cruel, inane, petty, and off-point their criticisms truly are. Every time they speak, they demonstrate that Aftermath is speaking the truth. CoS is its own worst enemy, and they seem to be intent on attacking them selves and delivering effective blows to themselves.
Looking forward to the DM episode. Would be nice to throw in an episode every now and then where, in the end, all ends well. An example like this from season 1 was Aaron S-L, even though sadly, the neighbor disconnected from Goliath, the dog.
I think, sir, that you should save the theta episode for when DM is led off to prison in chains and when the disconected people, (including your own children) are reunited with their families. That is an episode I want to see!
Continued..
Don’t give the bastards any respite. Unconditional surrender should be the terms. And Mark, maybe I went past an MU, but I thought that in the episode with Aaron the dog was the only terminal NOT disconnected from as ” It would not understand”.
Aaron said later on his YouTube channel, long after the aftermath episode aired, that the neighbor did have to disconnect and no longer lets the dog in the house.
i too would like to see DM lead off to prison, though I would want to see it as breaking news, long before Leah and Mike had time to put an episode together.
I don’t think that too many stories can be told about how Scientology has squandered, wasted and destroyed the talents of so many creative people. Excellent episode and My heart goes out to Elizabeth and her family.
In contrast when I see and hear about Scientology family members and their cruelty I see pictures of the Cyborgs from Star Trek. No longer human, mindless hive beasts.
Mike and Leah thanks for telling it like it is.
The cult needs to be exposed and exposed again and again until they stop their insane activities.
Excellent show, Mike! My heart goes out to Liz Gale. Leaving Scn and getting her freedom will help her to heal and hopefully move past her undeserved guilt. Your show should do an expose on the Delphian School in Sheridan, OR. I spent years there on staff. They lie, they hide that they are a scn school and that they use LRH study tech and all the other scn policies. My family and I left there and left Scn forever. It was the best thing we ever did.
Gut wrenching is as close as I can get to this episode.
Some insights that I did not know existed: It’s mom’s fault that a 4 year old broke his arm, and since he copped an attitude (which any 4 year old is apt to do) it’s mom’s fault because of something negative from inside the womb. WTF???
Mom stays at her sons hospital bed, not because she wants to be there to aid her son in his hour of need, but because she was told to do so by scientology, and then she stays in his room to protect him from the help from the Psychs who would pollute his mind?!?
And the most telling part of this episode: Grandma wants to see her grandson for about a week. Problem is, the grandson is 8 and a perfect candidate for the scientology school, so lets just see if we can convince him that mom is bad for him and he needs to stay with grandma and save the world!
The implications to that power grab FOR A CHILD(!!!) was chilling and thank goodness mom saw right through it. Sooo, what does grandma do to secure the legacy of her grand children? Sell her 120 year old family property to make sure that her grandchildren don’t inherit anything. Now that’s really scientology for ya, ain’t it??!
These last two episodes have been very difficult to watch. But reading blogs doesn’t touch the emotions that a real live testimony does.
I hope this is the beginning of the end for scientology, but if it is shut down here, there are other places around the world where they are gaining a foothold, and that could be a very big problem in attempting to shut this malignancy down.
I will add this before I sign off, I per-recorded the last two episodes and literally had to walk away and stop the program in order to regain my emotional balance. For a program to do that to a retired law enforcement individual like myself (who has seen a lot of trauma and misery) says something about the power these programs are having on myself and many of the readers of this blog.
” Sell her 120 year old family property to make sure that her grandchildren don’t inherit anything. Now that’s really scientology for ya, ain’t it??!”
Well ya know David, those Way to Misery booklets have got to be purchased and sent down to Houston to save the day. Let’s get our priorities straight for gawdddds sake!
Elizabeth certainly has class, grace and integrity.
PURCHASE your property back!!!!
How sad for her mom to sale the family’s 120 old property and heritage our of spite and anger because you, Elizabeth, had the courage denounced scientology (purposely didn’t capitalize because it doesn’t deserve it).
Elizabeth why can’t you re-purchase the property??? Mike, you and other former scientologists that have the ability to put the money together and/or fundraise to get the money together to buy this property back would be the best payback of the century.
Leah, all of your fans and followers would be more than happy to help Elizabeth re-gain her inheritance for her and her kids.
Let’s go team Aftermath for Elizabeth!
I came to this page looking for people who might be working on a fundraising campaign for Liz Gale. Did Liz have the ability to purchase the property? Is there anything we can do to help???
i came here looking for info about it as well, giving the fact that it is 2 years already.. but i would not give her money because it is first the mother’s property first and second, i also would want to have a peace of land ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ my money with me
Nope. You covered all the bases.
I was absolutely heart broken,and outraged that families are subjected to this horror.Ms.Gale has amazing,courage,and tenacity to tell her story. It was just gut-wrenching to watch because the pain of her brother’s suicide is ever-present.I believe that as stories keep coming out someone in LE will take notice.The abuses are rampant,and probably still continue. That this is happening,and being ignored is outrageous.Thank you for putting this out there for the world to see. Anyone,and everyone who has been harmed by this perverted institution must receive justice.
Many thanks to you, Mike, and to Leah for exposing this cult for what it really is. You are doing a wonderful and brave thing; who knows how many people you might save from falling down the rabbit hole of the COS?
Blessings to you and your family.
Thank you for another riveting, yet tragic show last night! I, too was raised in a cult and was able to immediately discern that LRH was a total looney when I was first approached by a good friend, back in the late 80’s. I knew that there was disconnection but, I never knew of all the abusive, dysfunctional,and painful tactics that took place behind closed doors. I recently posted a funny, sarcastic joke on my fb page and within minutes, that ‘good friend’ from the 80’s, shot me a very nasty message wanting to know why I was bashing Scientology? I was taken off-guard for a second but, after watching every episode from season one and crying my eyes out for the trauma inflicted on these fabulous, brave people, I was able to shut him down by blocking him. However, now I know why every time we would run into each other around town over the years, he would smile a big smile and try to be friendly but it was noticeably, fake! I now understand that I was most likely labeled an SP way back in 86 because I was vocal to my ‘friend’ about how Scientology resembled the same red flags I experienced growing up in a cult.
What you & Leah are doing is the bravest, most genuine and loving thing that can be done for all of the victims of LRH. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for validating these amazing people.
There’s power in TRUTH! Don’t you dare, stop!! Much love to you, both <3
What an incredible episode. This season has been especially heartbreaking. Suicide of family or friends is just amazingly difficult for those of us who have experienced it. There are no easy answers or peace, and it is a long journey to process with no reliable shortcuts. But I cannot fathom what it would be like for some ideologically Darwinian organization to be compounding that problem with an attitude so sociopathic and cruel. The arrogance and hubris of deifying an incredibly flawed human being with an incredibly flawed philosophy (full of contradictions and a patchwork of cribbed ideas), into an incredibly flawed organization is one thing. The cult of superiority it engenders in its members another. But to so coldly blame and turn away those who suffer, to persecute and isolate those who doubt or leave is just beyond my imagination. Ideologies that do that are not religions that liberate mankind, they are fascist constructs to control and exploit and create more suffering, not alleviate it. Talk about a xenu-esque paradox.
No wonder LRH hated psychiatry so much. Not only was it a competitor for his “I have the answer to everything in the universe” mantra, regardless of the science of psychology’s imperfections, its reliance on continuously a evolving – albeit often backward – dynamic medical world (and the industries that often exert too much influence on its progress) – it essentially defines sociopathy, or complete lack of empathy for others, as the most miserable form of mental dysfunction there is in the human condition. I can think of no other word that describes this “religion”. Sociopaths are often very glib, high functioning, charming and convincing. But they will always reveal, especially when threatened, their lack of empathy for others and their willingness to exploit them for their own ends.
What I am struck by every time I see or hear these stories though, is not only the depth of pain and misery that has been caused by such a self-serving organization but the incredible resilience and power of its survivors to make it through to freedom and to a place where they might begin to thrive. It brings me to tears every time I see the love and support you offer each other at the end of this journey and the inspiration and courage I hope it gives to others suffering now.
They are not alone, they have you to tell their stories and be their family. And you are not alone, because you will always have our love and support as well. There is a big universe out here you can define and explore for yourself with your own free will instead of being told what to think. It ain’t perfect and nobody has all the answers, but that is ultimately less dangerous and painful than someone or something that says they do.
Liz, like your other guests, is amazing and strong. Her courage and grace is both touching and heartening. You are good people, doing good things. Any entities that think otherwise and need to throw shade on what you do show themselves for the sniveling, petty, intolerant, backward and delusional beings they are. They just don’t hold up to the mirror test.
Thumbs up Cecybeans… well said!
When Liz tried to commit suicide and was in the hospital, her mom came and stayed there day and night. You think, “Finally, she is being a real mom and doing the right thing.” But no, in reality she was there because OSA told her to go stay there day and night to prevent the psychs from helping her daughter. Wow, how callous is that.
Great comment Cecybeans. Wish it could posted for all scientologists to read.
Anyone else who wants to read it can (and I recommend it) but scientologists need prods like this post to maybe jar those elements of humanity that have been tucked away deep inside of themselves while building their whole new homo novis with their “lack of empathy for others and their willingness to exploit them for their own ends.” Maybe they too can be awakened.
Thanks for your kind words. I am always struck by the stories people who have left tell that at some point in their CoS experience there was just some unavoidable cognitive dissonance, some series of moments – whether giant aha! types or just little “wait a minute!” ones that ate away at their confidence that any of this made good sense. Doubt and questioning are part of any faith, but most enlightened religions are confident enough they don’t have to punish and persecute people for having them, or to paraphrase what Leah said – if your belief system is that great, it should be able to stand up to a little questioning. Turning people who question their beliefs into criminals is pretty much what every dictator does, because people who question are free to leave and find their own answers and that cannot be tolerated in any totalitarian system that relies on them to surrender their personal power (not to mention material goods).
This ideology is so shot with dichotomy and contradictions for anyone who looks that I am confident that even people whose logical minds have been eroded by its claims will eventually see through the veil of bloated promises it makes to the fact that the real fabric holding this place together is NOT even the ideology itself but an elaborate construct designed to bait and switch.
At the end of the day, LRH was a guy who questioned what he had been taught, then trusted his own perceptions of the universe and created a self-aggrandizing organization where nobody could question those perceptions. That, in and of itself, is a contradiction. People who claim to know it all and have all the answers are generally nuts. Or just assholes. People who encourage others to think for themselves are the ones who are truly clearing themselves of negative things to borrow an analogy.
I don’t have the terminology of members who use the slick modern-sounding buzz words, but I just don’t understand how saying a cussword while you are pregnant is harmful to a baby but an organization that is constantly threatening and blackmailing people with “sins” and “crimes” is any better? it’s like thought-police brutality. It just seems like a system of blind obedience and mind control at some point would completely contradict the idea of being an OT at all, never mind all the cool claims of superpowers. And that, even if it were all true, why the hell wouldn’t it be free to all instead of something outrageously expensive that is marketed like a product only available to those who can afford it? How can you “clear” a planet when people need to sign up and pay a lot of money for the privilege?
I trust the human mind enough to know it naturally generates questions (or we wouldn’t have religions to begin with). I was always getting into trouble as a kid in the religion I was brought up in for asking “why?”. I have faith that enough people out there will listen to the voices in their minds asking those questions too. Doubting is painful but it is how we evolve. What is unforgivably evil, though, is other people hounding them and punishing them for it. THAT is like something out of a poorly written pulp sci-fi novel.
Something that I think needs repeating is that LRH was a PULP FICTION writer, with scifi being one of the pulp genres; He also wrote western and romance(?) when the mood struck. Not very well, it seems; He didn’t gather much of a following, if any. When I went to the big scifi bookstore in NYC in the ’70s, they didn’t have anything of his in stock or available, yet they had a little-known novella by E.E “Doc” Smith I’d not seen for years. SMITH wrote good Scifi, Hubbard didn’t, an he was lambasted for obvious scientific errors by the readers, themselves, AT THE TIME. Sci Fi readers excel at “the willing suspension of disbelief”, so for even one to write in to the mag quickly enough to make it into the next issue, it has to be a whopper that destroys the narritive. While at Flag, a little work found other crew who had an LRH novel I could borrow for the hour it took to read…. None of them were memorial enough for me to look for my own copy, as was my wont for any good read.( When I was released to the free (wog) world, I soon had to budget myself to less than $1,000 a year at the used book shops in the area. It was tough to keep up with the shelving required to house my addiction. Still, I have zero LRH “scifi”,other than that horrible stuff he “wrote” in the ’80s. “Excreted” might be the better word. Tough to slog through, not recommended.
How about redoing Battlefield Earth with Tom Cruise as Johnnie Goodboy and Dave as Terl? Hell, I’d buy a ticket!
Jere, was my intention by using that phrase, glad it did not go unnoticed. I tried to read one myself many years ago and was just so underwhelmed I couldn’t handle it. It was just such amateurish crap, And Battlefield Earth was so poorly written I could not get through even a third of it. I had no idea about the Westerns. It should also be mentioned that his fellow sci-fi authors during that time didn’t have inordinate respect for him either, other than the fact he could crank stuff out and market it. They kinda thought he was a real hack, if an interesting weird guy. I wonder what his colleagues in the other genre really thought of his “talent”. The dialog was really comic book level.
Moxie, I think Battlefield Earth was enough of a box-office nightmare the first time without making every CoS member have to buy multiple tickets to see a new version, even if it starred the major principles and cost them a lot of money to make. It was the first modern sci-fi movie ever made, imo, that looked like it was already the Mystery Science Theater parody version of itself. Although I suppose that would give people who suffered a lot a bit of comfort. Maybe one with a similar voice-over commentary by people who escaped the clutches of CoS would be even better.
When I worked at bookstores in the 70s and 80s we just used to rip off the covers of Dianetics and dump them in the back with the romance novels. (SOP for books that don’t sell – just return the covers to publishers for credit because it’s too expensive to ship back the rejects. Only CoS always wanted them sent back intact so they could repackage them, and resell the copies to jack up the numbers on the bestseller lists. We used to laugh when we would open the boxes and the books had obviously been sold before, ready for recycling.)
Another very well produced episode. Heart-wrenching as it was.
Interestingly, someone I was on staff with finally communicated with me via social media. Trapped is the only way to describe him. His OT8 (for 10 years) parent is all he has. He dared mention he’d caught a bit of the show and knew these things were true, but can’t watch for fear of discovery and bringing the hammer of his oppressive “church” down on he and his parent. This person has been shat on by the church of Scientology from the beginning. All I could do was offer a non-judgmental ear and tell him that he is NOT the labels put upon him and to try to live life without worrying about that next level or grade and that I’m here if he needs someone to talk to. It brought me to tears that this wonderful, vibrant being is so squashed and degraded and hasn’t achieved any of life’s “normal” accomplishments, like a spouse or children or even a career. This is what being in Scientology from a very young age brought him…
Rephrasing my last statement. This is what being in Scientology AND having your only parent also being in Scientology, and especially at the highest levels, has brought him. If he had a parent outside the church that supported him, he might have gotten out.
He may not have a parent outside the cult but he has you. Very disturbing story of yet another imprisonment. Thanks for sharing…
T-Marie,
Good job on listening to him. You may want to offer up that he /she and the dad might be thinking the same thoughts!
What a disaster that cult is.
Yo Dave,
Time to change up the ‘ribbon’ as it were good buddy on yer next Irish Idle Morgue to a very large BAND AID PLASTIC STRIP. And make sure it has that neutral flesh color to it Dave…….. because it is going to get ripped off the face of Your cherch.
23 years ago my little brother Sean commited suicide. He was 13. I was 16.
Suicide is the worst type of grief one can endure because it stays with you EVERYDAY. You will never be able to complete the phases of grief, due to guilt, blame, shame, unanswered questions etc. I am deeply saddened by what I have seen these last 2 episodes. Every episode makes me sad or angry, but these dealing with Suicide are obviously personal.
It is heartbreaking to me even more so in the way the survivors (family, friends, spouses) have ZERO support, ZERO compassion, ZERO love shown. This is NOT a place of FAITH. Its crushing.
Suicide is never the answer. In the depths of despair please reach out to anyone but especially someome you love. Tell them whats going on inside.
If your the friend, or family member call the Suicide Prevention Hotline and ask them for help.
Depression is so so common and almost 100% treatable.
I am available if someone needs to talk or find help too.
Your loved, important, and can get better.
Thank you,
C. Graves
Courtneygraves55@gmail.com
Courtney, I am so sorry your little brother killed him self. The grief must have been horrific. And I’m sure it’s never far from your mind. I was forced to disconnect from my Mom. She promptly attempted suicide. I was in Hawai’i and she packed her clothes and left.
I wish you peace & Blessings. You seem like a very strong woman.
That’s a sad story, Old Surfer Dude. How did it turn out?
I, also, understand the horrible legacy that suicide leaves behind. In 1997 my younger brother shot and killed himself, then in 2009 my mother died in her sleep from a lifetime of prescription drug abuse. Thirteen days later my step dad shot and killed himself on the even of Mom’s memorial service. Other than my husband and son I have no other family now. I understand the feelings of loss, confusion, anger and pain. I understand the “what if” and “why didn’t I”. Like Courtney, my heart breaks for those struggling with depression, mental illness and all the darkness that follows with no support, love, compassion or kindness. If you are a Scientologist or a former Scientologist and are struggling with the darkness I beg you- PLEASE reach out for help.
I am so sorry for your pain and suffering. I am in awe of your strength.
You’re awesome, Courtney!
Just finished watching. So sad. So insane.
With these 3 episodes aired it makes complete sense why the Pro-Hubbard, pro evil trolls have descended on this blog of late.
Mike & Leah have turn on the kitchen light in the middle of the night and the filthy cockroaches have been stirred up.
“Mike & Leah have turn on the kitchen light in the middle of the night and the filthy cockroaches have been stirred up.”
This would do well on a T-shirt!! Or Hell ~ bumper sticker ?
I used to do that at Flag when I worked in the NOTS HGCs. Turn on the lights at night and hundreds of cockaroaches would run around. Once I had to sleep there as I had food poisioning and could not walk home. In the night I repeatedly woke up with cockaroaches running on my face.
Great show last night to Mike, Leah, and Liz! Another job well done exposing the lies and heartbreak associated with Scientology! I think this was my favorite one so far, yet they are all hard to watch because of all the pain and sadness experienced by the families highlighted. Liz, you are awesome for having the courage to describe your family situation and tragedies you’ve had to endure. I am convinced you will be reunited with your brother and father on the other side, and even your mother will have the scales removed from her eyes one day whether she likes it or not. Keep the faith and hope, and trust that God’s plan for us is much bigger and better than the lies taught in Scientology!
Mike thank you for that episode. It helps me being an ex-Scientologist who had toed the line of suicide after having a break down while being audited. For weeks the Boston Church pushed me to get vitamins and exercise after the break, and finally I couldn’t take it anymore and institutionalized myself in a psyche unit. Then Boston Scientologists came and took me out. Still after more weeks of nothing working I turned to medication because depression can be extremely painful only because I had no choice.
I feel for you however, I can see that doing this series is hard for you by the look on your face at times during the episode.
Interesting Liz Gale’s mother was the head of CCHR. I had to do a lot of volunteer work with the Boston group, Kevin Hall the head of it and the Hubbard “conditions” to be allowed to remain a member. I also had to buy all the new Hubbard tapes$$ and the international membership $3000 at the time to show I was sincere. Boston Org o.k.ed me to stay but international said no, it was against policy because I saw psychiatrist and took meds for a short while because of them! I wanted my $ back and they told me I could not get back a donation. Over $6000 spent by credit card.This lead me finally to the internet which was new to the world at the time and then I found out all about this cult. A month later I was on a radio show talking out against them on the Michael Gram show.
Then I did research on the O.T.O. In which Hubbard stole from Crowley.
In awe of your courage! Your story should be of Aftermath.
Liz you were so courageous and so well-spoken, totally impressed. My heart is sore for you of what has happened to your family! Totally disgusting. Just remember that LRH too lost a son to suicide and disconnected from half of his kids and had 3 marriages. His “2D” was a total f…up. DM has also got a totally f…uped “2D” and my own family is a total f…up!! One son disconnected and all of my side of the family – a total of 20 people. Scn is a total f..up and if someone wants to handle their “2D” this is not the place to get it fixed. 2D = Second Dynamic – family, sex etc etc…………THIS IS NOT OKAY and people in Scn need to bloody well wake-up and smell the roses, they all know it too, which doesn’t make sense to me.
Honestly a tad confused…If “Good Scientologists”, (aka the people who are supposed to be living/breathing their own fundamentals), are not supposed to have contact with the outside world, why are they even watching this documentary to BEGIN smear campaigns against your show? Doesn’t that make them ALL PTS? How can they criticize something that they aren’t supposed to be exposed to? Hypocrisy at its FINEST. Neither you or Leah Remini are trying to randomly squelch a “religion” because you don’t agree with their belief system, (aren’t there many belief systems out there that plenty of people just “disagree with”?). You are taking a stand against ABUSE, and giving a voice to SO many who have been emotionally, psychologically and even physically scarred for LIFE because of their practices. I wholeheartedly applaud you both for your dedication to this cause. For every one person you interview, you are encouraging hundreds of others to come out of the woodwork and take a stance against the vileness of the church’s behavior. I personally laugh out loud at their criticism of Leah trying to use her “celebrity status” to “stage manage” her exit from their cult. Where are all of these celebrities who SUPPORT their crap? Where are Tom, John, Kelley & Kirsty? Wait…all I hear is crickets…
Kristen S. U make an excellent point…nothing from Tom or John or Kelly..the big Cheeses..
Their silence says alot..only care about themselves
True, but maybe OSA and DM have told the celebs not to say anything and to try to just let this pass.
In my opinion they are not watching the show.
They are simply doing what they are ordered to do by the “Church”. The videos are scripted by OSA and may well be filmed at Gold.
They accuse Leah and Mike of scripting false data for Leah’s show and per LRH, a criminal accuses others of what he himself is doing. They have no doubt ordered everyone not to watch the show; otherwise the RCS would have folded already; no-one can see the show and not know that it is all true.
Any scientologist watching the show without being told to do so by OSA is as likely to be declared SP as anyone reading this comment on Mike’s blog.
Mike – another powerful episode and another despicable mother. Thanks for doing these episodes and exposing the destructive mind set.
My question on this episode:
Why is there so much pressure to maintain scientology beliefs in subsequent generations of a family? If your mother is just a genetic entity, and could be your uncle the next lifetime, what is it so important that the Gale family continue to pump out scientologists on this earth?
I can see if the COS has to scrap and scrape for every new member, then maybe 2nd gen children are captive members and easy to covert, but they’re expanding at 47x rates!
Why would a mother care so much that her related genetic entities are scientologists too? If you live a thousand lifetimes, why is it so crucial that your GEs in this lifetime believe what you want them to believe?
My take on this episode:
To be honest, I thought this was less impactful than the first one. For some reason, I didn’t really sympathize with Elizabeth Gale. I didn’t like her affect, and I was distracted by her beauty, especially her gorgeous hair.
Katy – interesting comment, “I didn’t like her affect, and I was distracted by her beauty, especially her gorgeous hair.”
Just because someone is pretty doesn’t make their suffering any less.
They’ve been paying a lot for their keyword ads too! if I search ANYTHING related to Leah Remini, Mike Rinder or Scientology, their smear website pops up right away! I am getting delivered ads on Facebook everyday too. I find it entertaining. 🙂
Thank you for all you are doing to reveal the truth!
For all the fortune they spend on attorneys, never an articulate defense, never a credible counter-argument., Just smears, lies and slurs, flung all around in the hope that something will stick.
Whenever and wherever you observe this, recognize it for what it is: the behavior of the insane and doomed.
Tragedy all around! I realize it’s likely too late, but wouldn’t it have been possible for Liz Gale to have hired a good attorney, who could argue in court that Scientology coerced her mother to use the property to bludgeon her daughter and grandkids, that the property was in the family for 110 years? All Liz would want is to hold it in trust so her children could decide when they reach adulthood. There have been cases where rulings along these lines have been made. I understand freedom for Liz and her family far outweigh the property, but what her mother has done to Liz and her brother is beyond evil. This woman should face a court to explain years of active criminal neglect of her children. This mother is twisted, pure twisted. I wonder what legal analyst and Scientologist Van Susteren thinks? I hope that by continuing to expose these abuses, you and Leah will inform the public to press the IRS to end Scientology’s tax exempt status. I feel nothing but contempt for the likes of Cruise, Archer, Alley, Travolta, Van Susteren and other celebrities who live well while Sea Org members clean their toilets, pimp their cars, and extend broad smiles with glazed looks for 50 cents an hour.
Regarding Dianetics and mothers. Wow, I never gave that a thought, about my mother, after I got into the organization and my mother said “oh, that book, I have read it”. We never discussed it.
Now I realize it was the basis of our relationship problem. Thank you!
Liz, you are a hero. Thank you for demonstrating courage, integrity and truthfulness. What you have painfully expressed is a benefit and encouragement for all of the other people who are hiding from the threat of this despicable harmful cult.
You’ve given them hope!
Mike and Leah; gratitude…… BIG GRATITUDE!! ❤️
A good part of my career was spent working for (and with) David Gale. As one of the benefits, I got to play with Liz when David brought her into the office in 1984 and ’85. She was adorable, enthusiastic, would sit on my lap and pound on my keyboard. Philip wasn’t around much, but I think Marie was home-schooling him. At that time, the family really DID look like the “ideal” Scientology family.
David and Marie moved their family away from the area where we worked and I stayed put. (I left Scientology shortly after David left town and my ownership in the company was bought out). So I didn’t follow what Liz and Philip were having to deal with. I didn’t know their parents sent their kids of a Scientology boarding school when they were 8 years old. I didn’t know Liz wasn’t living with her parents when her dad unexpectedly died. I didn’t know how Liz handled her brother’s suicide or dealt with the loss of a sibling with whom she could confide. I didn’t know Marie planned to go into the Sea Org after David died, and tried to have Liz adopted. I didn’t know how adamantly Marie insisted that Liz not cross boundaries that wound endanger Marie’s “road to total freedom.”
What I know now has come from Liz herself who I reconnected with about a year and a half ago. I’ve been privy to some of her thought processes and am always impressed with how fair, loving, attentive, and empathetic she is. There was no way to be truthful with her mom about her rejection of Scientology without hurting her mom. That’s painful for Liz, and no doubt for Marie. But it was Marie who set those dynamics in motion a long time ago.
Because of her immersion in Scientology schools (and ethics offices) I can imagine Liz feeling guilty for not wanting to be a Scientologist; and/or guilt for pretending to her mom that she wasn’t a threat to her mom’s “status” in the “Church”. I imagine the loss Liz might feel that her mom doesn’t spend time with her or her grandchildren. I put myself in Liz’s shoes and know she’s fought the battle for the right to be who she really is, on her own.
While Philips suicide looms large in Liz’s story, what touches me most is how Liz has dealt with far too many losses. She represents second generation Scientology kids who also want no part of it. In speaking her truth publicly, Liz has helped open the door to kids who also want out but are afraid of what they’ll lose. There are few people who could lose more than Liz has. In her strength, and in the life she’s creating outside of Scientology, she’s sending a powerful message of understanding, care, and hope. I’m so impressed. She deserves all the love so many feel for her, and all the support we can give her.
Does Scientology have any “doctrine” re: suicide?
I mean after Hubbards son killed himself didn’t LRH come out with any policy about it?
This is not like the Catholic or other churches, where suicide is considered a mortal sin (straight ticket to hell, in other words). Look up ‘End of Cycle Scientology’.
If I understand it correctly, one can ‘drop their body’ and get a new one if they’re unhappy with their current situation.
One woman advertised for a Scientology couple having a baby, so she could give her mother a safe place to land.
DM announced that LRH had purposefully dropped the body he had used in this lifetime so that he could pursue research that had to be done in a spiritual state.
I’m a never-in (but I read a lot), so if I have misinterpreted anything, please let me know.
Nope. You’ve covered all the bases.
The Catholic Church does not teach that a suicide goes to Hell. While it does hold that suicide is a mortal sin, it qualifies that by adding that in order for something to be a sin one has to know it is wrong AND willfully chose to do it anyway. The Church understands that for someone with a mental illness they are struggling and may not be able to make such a choice with a clear and informed mind. Therefore it is ultimately up to God to determine where a soul goes.
“While the Church holds that death by suicide is a grave or serious sin (mortal sin), the Church nonetheless prays for those who have committed suicide, knowing that Christ will judge the deceased fairly and justly. It is the belief of the Church that only God can read the depths of our soul. Only He knows how much we love Him and how responsible we are for our actions. The Church’s view is that we should leave the judgment of those who commit suicide to God. The Church still teaches that there is a hell, understood as a definitive separation from the love of God, but leaves it to God to decide who should go there.” (CCC2282)
And also:
“We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to Him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives” (CCC#2283). Therefore, we offer Mass for the repose of the soul of a suicide victim, invoking God’s tender love and mercy, and His healing grace for the grieving loved ones. The Church also prays for the close relations of the deceased, that the loving and healing touch of God will comfort those torn apart by the impact of the suicide.”
When I was in the Novitiate my Novice Mistress taught us that although the Church believes in Hell (the absence of God or being denied God’s presence) it is not for us to determine who is sent there. That is for God alone to do. The Church does not even say that Judas went to Hell after betraying Jesus and then hanging himself, because no one but God knows what goes on between a soul and God at that last moment.
Just a F.Y.I.
I understand that my Church has it’s own set of issues due to some perverted priests. But not all Catholics are that way and my faith is filled with love and compassion and good people.
Very well said. I am not a Catholic, I was raised Baptist however that is what I also was taught in regards to suicide.
also I have dear friends who are Catholics you can’t judge an entire community by one single person. It’s not fair how Catholics are being perceived due the decisions of a few.
stay strong and God Bless
azhlynne, there are indeed many, many good people in your faith. Also, it would never have lasted as long as it has if it were not ready, willing and able to self-correct as an organization.
Scientology as an organization has only one path to survival and that is to clean itself up, all its abuses, all the injustice it has perpetrated on others, etc., etc. Which doesn’t look likely, so, its pretty much doomed, no matter how much good is in it. If it can’t or won’t self correct, its doomed, like countless other religions and philosophies that could not clean themselves up, it will be the latest on top of the dustbin.
There is a Catholic Cemetery a good distance to me since we’ve moved out of that area. Sadly, , where in “the olden days” anyone who committed suicide was buried in “unsanctified ground”. That small area of the cemetery is set far a[part from the “regular section”, it’s over run with weeds & strange vegetation & the grave markers (mostly old & made from Iron) are rusted over). The families of those deceased seemingly do not visit. When I called the Church (I am NOT Catholic) to inquire about why it’s left uncared for….no call was ever returned. A friend & I went in to pull weeds & clean it up, to at least give some dignity to those poor souls whose internal pain was to great for them to want to live on. When my family moved away, & I visited that cemetery years later, it was back in the same state of affairs….all to sad
That was kind of you, Balletlady. And very Christian too, if I can say. Wasn’t it Jesus Christ in the New Testament who said,, “Judge not, lest ye be judged”? Very beautiful, and true, yet not at all an easy datum to apply all the time.
I don’t remember reading anything about suicide. He probably thought it was a low toned thing to do. Being the effect. That’s my opinion.
LRH wanted to commit suicide while he was running space aliens in auditing. A fact that needs to always be remembered.
A fact that is avoided by Scientologists at all costs as it undermines the “wisest man in the universe” belief.
Dear Barbet: Yeah, its ” Go ahead, make my day”.
I had decided to kill myself on the Freewinds because I could no get off to go to my parents 50th wedding anniversary dinner after not seeing any member of my family in 7 years. The Captain screamed at me in his office” I don’t give a fuck about family”.
I was put on the cans by the Dir I and R to find my overts. CMO were watching in real time as notes were being shoved under the door. Finally the door opened and the CMO Crackerjack auditor ordered the I and R out. She took over the interview and eventually found out about the suicide plan.
Even though I had told CMO how and why I was going to kill myself, there was no action taken by anyone to stop me. No-one even told me not to do it.
Had I done so, nobody would have reported it. They could have just rolled my body off the deck when out to sea and noone would have been the wiser.
They used to seem to be concerned about their PR. Now they do not give a damn. How could they possibly have worse PR than they do now? Well, I guess , stay tuned to find out.
Barbet, People who are suicidal are considered by Hubbard (this is TECH) to be at the bottom of the Tone scale, EXTREMELY dangerous to those around them, in a very low ethics condition and not worth the Church’s time as they might be plants sent in by Hubbard’s enemies, legally dangerous to have on Church lines, etc., etc.
Well Barbet they certainly have an acronym and innocuous phrase for suicide/death:
“End of Cycle” aka “End Cycle” aka “EOC”
Chilling testimony and references here: http://www.xenu-directory.net/practices/endcycle.html
Scientology has the answers to everything. When you start applying the tech all your relationships improve, families get closer and more loving….give me a freakin break. In EVERY episode we’ve seen a family broken apart. From disconnection to outright neglect and abuse. Now we’re seeing the effects of what happens when people with real mental illnesses are denied legitimate treatment and sometimes even subjected to the Intospection Rundown which makes it worse!!!
And just when I think it can’t get worse, just because Elizabeth Gale chose to take a different path, her mother is selling the property that has been in their family for over 100 years…..for spite.
Well, her mother SOLD the property. Liz and her family no longer live there. She fulfilled her dictate to “fully disconnect.”
Just WHERE DID the money from the sale of that property go…..stupid question, right?
That makes me sick. I think we all know who got the money. BUT they DIDN’T get Liz and they WILL NOT get her children. She has EVERYTHING.
That sucks big-time.
Drive dm drive right over the Abyss! Admiration Mike you are Incredible. ????
I hope after seeing all this that the world stops supporting movies with any celebrities involved in Scientology such as Tom Cruise, John Travolta etc. I don’t understand how the government allows this. It’s so sad to think there are so many Cults in this country that Abuse Women and Children.
Keep up the great work you both are doing.
I agree, Antoinette. I would say also to not see any TV show or movie that Krusty Alley does, but not need, she isn’t doing any work these days.
It especially broke my heart that she has to leave her home that has been in the family for over 110 years. Her mother is a very sad person who chose Scientology over family, but, I loved Gales outlook. She was “Free” and that’s what a loving parent does, chooses family over and above everything else.
I thought Liz was fabulous and full of the zest for,life despite her losses. Her poignant statement at the end for those still in the bubble was priceless…
Mr Rinder is there any legal action Elizabeth can take to protect her rights to the property?
It breaks my heart not only what she has lost with the deaths of her beloved father and brother. It’s so tragic that she may loose the refuge she has found in her family’s property.
Mike’s comments about osa following everything l ron tells them to the letter reminds me of the Jehovah’s Witnesses who come to the door insisting that everything the bible tells us is accurate and therefore should be followed. I wonder if either group ever stops to think about what they are doing and see that actually not all of it makes sense or even works, talk about blind faith.
Very few of us will ever know how it feels to leave a cult like Scientology. Having to “de-program’ and learn that almost everything you know isn’t only not how it is , but in many cases was hurtful to you and others is hard to comprehend. I feel so sorry for people that are still lost in the cult (no longer the church in my eyes). Every person that is on this show is a hero and is saving peoples lives.
The cult’s biggest mistake was to mistreat you Mike. Second biggest was to let Leah go. The way you interview these folks and explain everything. I know it must be 5 times harder for you both, but I hope you can go to bed smiling knowing how many people you are helping.
I guess I just want to say Thank You. To you, the team, and the brave folks that tell their story on camera.
Kathy,
I agree with your comments, esp the ones about mistreating Mike and Leah. Can you imagine how pissed Miscavige must be that Mike, of all people, is exposing Miscavige and his crimes!
COB thinks he is so superior to everyone, it must be such a kick in his tiny scrotum that a SP like Mike has brought this much attention to COB’s actions.
Miscavige is so used to treating everyone like garbage and no one standing up to him. This must be quite a shock.
You can see the attitude in the way Monique Yingling sneered during an interview that Leah (not sure if Mike was lumped into that) would never be able to effect the Co$ tax exemption. It was sheer contempt coming off of Yingling. And you know who she got that from!
I can’t help but fear for those with mental health needs still within The Organization. With so much exposure by Leah and Mike, in addition to all the articles and books and News stories made public prior to the show I am afraid that anyone currently showing any tendencies towards desperation will be truly made to disappear into some dark cell of Hell deep in Gold Base. The aftermath of Lisa McPhearson’s death already showed The Organization how the public felt about the subject. Now that all these new stories are coming to light DM and his minions must be furious. All the standard denial letters aside, there are people within that Organization who are walking a thin line mentally. What is going to happen to them now? Scientology is a shadowy, secretive, paranoid Organization. Can they afford to have even one more member experience a nervous breakdown or commit suicide? Scientology comes first. Anything that threatens that is handled accordingly. This means, I’m afraid, that anyone who is struggling with a mental health crisis is going to be detrimentally dealt with in true Scientology fashion.
I don’t disagree with what you are saying but I would just like to add that sometimes scientology CREATES the mental health crisis and with some who might never have exhibited a problem even if predisposed, could go in full blown mental illness under the many different duresses that this church can bring to bear.
I completely agree with you. Scientology creates an environment of stress, exhaustion, confusion and suspicion in order to control how it’s members think. This same environment can also completely break down a person’s mental stability and cause terrible harm. I am SO grateful that Leah and Mike and all the other strong, courageous people involved are working to help those being victimized.
Mary, you’re absolutely right. The stress that staff, and especially SO endure, would certainly cause mental illnesses. Dare I say it? Scientology creates mental illnesses. And they have no way to address this subject.
Those that post messages insinuating that Mike & Leah are blaming parents etc. for their children’s suicide really miss this whole point, Mary, Well,Said! Scientology is the incubator. This is what I pick up as I hear these stories.
Very true, Mary Kahn.
I can fully understand your point….to continually PUSH people to keep moving up the bridge at ALL COSTS no matter what causes undue physical and emotional stress. For someone to be told to divorce your non achieving spousal, to disconnect with a family member who is showing signs of a “mental illness”….Wow…..so riveting to see & hear these horror stories.
I’ve said it before & I’ll keep on saying it about the COS on line statement:
“The Church Challenges.”……WTF??….Can ALL these former members be LYING??? Not ONE time has DM cone on the Aftermath to defend anything that was stated….the COS policies displayed in PRINT says it all.
Circling the drain…….
L Ron Hubbard in his usual wisdom wrote the policy how to handle the “mad dog” press. IGNORE. For anyone who has done E-meter drill 17 ignoring someone is supposed to piss them off. (Raise the tone arm) So why intentionally ignore communication from the very society that you are trying to enlighten about Scientology? Because Miscavige knows there are too many lies to manage in a real live conversation with a reporter. So they have to double down on the lies, and the hate smear sites, and more SP declares, and and and and. Miscavige reminds me of a certain land developer/politician I read about these days who seems to tell lies while breathing.
Remarkable similarities in the way they behave, speak and react, yes. I’ve run both of them thru the 12 Characteristics – Miscavige ticks all the boxes and the real estate guy 8.
I agree with the previous comment, Everyone who speaks out and comes forward is so courageous. It makes me sad how ‘they’ see medical intervention as something wrong and how this poor kid needed help and his mother and her crazy thoughts of what she said made him act that way. I would never leave my children. These people are brainwashed. Can’t wait for the next episode on Miscavige and the joke that he is. That ahole needs to be arrested for everything that has happened since he became in charge. I am so thrilled for those who have left, I’m sure you feel guilt and shame and find it hard to adjust to normal life. Our hearts and prayers are with all of the survivers
Mike, what a well done and excellent, heart wrenching show last night. I cried. Gale was so amazingly strong first to leave the cult and then to stand up and tell her story. And her attitude of, “I’m free!” was such an epiphany for her. Thank you for that episode and for all of them. I can’t remember how old Gale was when her mother joined the SO. What was her age then? And they showed a statement that the mom said she didn’t do that on one of the written disclaimers. So what, is that all she has to say? Just that she didn’t do it? Where is her story, her supposed side to it? I’d really like to read it to find out how a mother ever can justify leaving two beautiful kids at such tender young ages, especially after they already lost their dad.
My heart broke watching this episode. I lost a son when he was three. My family, friends and my church were with me constantly to help repair my broken heart. After 40 years my heart still aches. The bond between a mother and her child is very strong. I cannot understand how a “church” could brainwash a mother to the point that she abandons her children.
Mike, since you are focusing on how SCN says they are family oriented how about incorporating a show about when a family member in Scientology dies and the immediate family cannot mourn the death. I just read Janis Gilliam Grady’s book. She loved her mother very much. Her mother Yvonne started CC. Yet when Yvonne was dying her children were not informed of how terribly sick she was. Thankfully one daughter found out and flew to her bedside. When she walked into her room Yvonne was alone. No one there to help her through her illness. Once she passed away Janis and her brother were told. There was a memorial and all three children were expected back at their posts immediately after. Yvonnes Death was also hushed with fellow Scientologist. As if her lifetime to Scientology and all she devoted to her church meant nothing. There was a memorial at the CC and her children were not invited. This doesn’t sound like an organization that should be bragging about how family oriented they are. Please keep up the good work and the stories you are telling. God bless
OMG, Tam, WHY were her children not invited to the memorial at CC for Yvonne Gillham after her death. They were not declared then. Why?
Tam,
Dear god. I’m a bit teary. I’m so very sorry for what you went through losing a child when he was three years old. I sincerely cannot imagine the pain and heartache.
I have a 5 yr old. If I ever lost him, I don’t think I’d ever recover.
Sending big hugs…
It is astounding to me that in her smear video Marie Gale says that Mike Rinder is using her daughter and somehow turned her against Scientology and she doesn’t want him anywhere near her daughter. Then she says I love my daughter and if she comes to me to reconcile we will reconcile. But why don’t you reach out to her Marie? Why does she have to make the first move? And what does reconcile mean to you? Does it mean becoming a Scientologist again? Indoctrinating her sons and husband? Would that make her whole in your eyes? She did reach out to you to ask you not to sell her legacy, to leave it to her innocent sons and she (Liz) never had to own it. But such is your need to “win” that you would rather sell your whole family’s legacy to prevent Liz from having anything do with with it. I imagine the money you would get from 1,300 acres is a lot you you will make the cheque right out to Scientology. They will suck you dry and you will die broke, and alone. Scientologists won’t mourn you and you’ve ensured your daughter won’t. You will just become dust and forgotten.
It is also astounding that in the two videos Marie Gale made that she never once mentions her son which is what the episode was about. You would prefer to concentrate on Mike and Leah. But no compassion or regret or emotion over your son, who needed but was denied help. Sad, sad, sad.
I’m not watching their smear videos. But doesn’t it show the absolute insanity when you view these videos with your not-brainwashed, sane mind and rational point of view?
Yes. It’s scary.
I just watched the episode. I can’t even print what I have to say about Marie Gale. A hyena is a better mother than her.
Mike , if I understand right when a sea org member leaves Scientology they are on the hook for all the auditing costs they received for free over the years. My question is how can a person who signs a “billion year contract” be legally liable for something they signed when they were a minor?
The billion year contract is not legally enforceable. Every Sea Org member ALSO signs a 5 year contract every 5 years with the corporation they are employed by.
The Freeloader Debt is also not legally enforceable. Not paying it only prevents you from continuing up the Bridge in scientology. Scientology cannot legally collect the money and they never try.
Mike
How does Scientology get around the child labor laws?
They ignore them.
My youngest son (21) is perparing to go back to school and has not been watching Aftermath. However last night when he was on his way to the kitchen, hearing about the billion year contract on the tv called him up short. He stopped and asked a bunch of questions. The first being “How would you enforce that?”
I wish you had an edit button, because I always see spelling errors AFTER I post my comment LOL
Join the club! Must be a SP around here somewhere causing the spelling issues!
Yep, AKA spell check (LOL), should be a way to turn it off.
“But it is comforting to remember as they careen on down the path of self-destruction, every action they take to shame the victims moves them closer to finally driving off the inevitable cliff.”
Well written, Mike! I have not seen the show yet but will today. Never miss a min?
Unfortunately in the Uk its not yet available on Ytube thk you for your work
Sad she has to lose her ranch
In the US Aftermath Season 2 is available on Google Play. I bought the whole season for $12.99. Individual episodes become available after they are broadcast.
Also available on Amazon. Episode 3 was available for streaming about 1am, my time, the next day (about 4 hours later). Same price as Google Play. Guessing the availability is the same for both. I mention this just for those who might have a preference for one or the other. Always good to have options.
Thank you, Mike and Leah, another powerful episode. No words for Liz Gale, you are a brave girl.
I never thought that a show about Scientology would be my favorite and one I cannot wait to see each week. Each show has been heartbreaking and incredibly sad as we hear about what families have gone through for the sake of their “religion”. For Scientology to continue to deny any of this took place is a travesty and as each show airs the curtain that Scientology hides behind continues to come down little by little. Thanks so much to Mike, Leah, and all the people coming forward to tell their stories as it will definitely lead to the destruction of Scientology and then all their family & friends can be reunited with them.
Philip sure made a statement by committing suicide on LRH’s birthday! Eh? What a sad story of child abandonment! This story hit very close to home. My ex used to abandon her new kids for months at a time so she could do Scientology services. So much for the claim that the Church is strengthening and enhancing the dynamics of individuals. Liz’s story is another tragic example of the legacy of the church and the prevalence of child abuse in the name of so called personal spiritual enlightenment! Good luck Liz! You made a very wise choice!
Liz was exemplary on tonight’s episode. She was so articulate in her attempt (and success) in conveying the level of emotional anguish she and her brother suffered as a result of this cult. Her mother’s behavior was and is reprehensible. I am aware her mother is still under the influence but at some point, when the losses become so great, a mother’s natural instinct to protect her young, would be a slap upside the head for her. Please….someone slap her upside the head (metaphorically, of course)
I find it very hard to believe that she is happy in her life choices and hasn’t spent her nights questioning her choices.
Teen, I don’t even know how she can sleep at all. What could be going through this woman’s indoctrinated mind when she goes to bed at night? To lose one child to suicide and to disconnect from the other over Scientology?? I lost a daughter in 1980 and I was devastated. This really shows the extreme power of a cult that can mind-jack someone so effectively.
I cannot imagine the guilt this woman will bear when she ultimately breaks free from this prison. She spent a lifetime in this cult…she’ll likely need a lifetime of therapy to overcome and forgive herself for her choices. It will be a long journey but I would guess, Liz would be there for her if given a chance. Liz has a beautiful heart and so ROCKS!
In my 30 years I experienced all sorts of insanity inside the cult but these stories are really opening my eyes to the fact that so many others went through the same or much much worse. The organization and it’s culture are so toxic. Peace out.
?
The Cult is is showing everyone their true belief. No church would say the things the cult says or prints about people like they do. So sad, I pray this will open people’s eyes to the evil that is within this cult.
Years ago in thebearly 80s I almost bought the Dianetics book. I am very glad I didn’t. I hope we live to see scientology perish grom this planet. Keep up the work you are doing.
Years ago, I bought and read this book when it was a bestseller. I threw it away. Didn’t want to be responsible for it getting into a vulnerable set of hands. I remember being confused on why it was all the rage. Then I bought a Stephen King novel and life went on..lol!
I’m assuming that all who comment here were at one time in Scientology…I have a question…(and this includes myself) Why were we SO loyal to such a destructive group? There are millions who were never interested. Big egos maybe, wanting to feel superior? All I know is this; I’m just happy and proud that I got out.
I got involved after I read dianetics and thought it could help me become less screwed up, many years later once I’d been roped into scientology I came to realize that all that happened was that I had a new set of problems and had done nothing about the old ones, now I’m out at least I no longer have the financial issues which were crippling me. I admit I did feel superior while I was involved, I think many do based on the number of people who quickly abandon college or professional studies when they take up scientology.
Good to meet you Joan. I did not consider my ego the reason I joined Sea Org Asho Fdn in 1974. I genuinely wanted to go into Ron’s World in the very mistaken belief that his ” religion ” was the truth. Two years in I was a Forever Sea Orger. The next two years I saw the real face of the cult. I left in 1978 before I literally collapsed and my body was shutting down because I was starving doing the conditions over & over.Kept my journey to myself for many years. Thank God for Mike, Tony & Others for the avenue online.?
Joan – I think people get involved for various reasons. Something strikes a chord. Maybe they see a group of instant friends. Maybe they loved the comm course. Possibly they were young and more easily influenced. Of course, it’s not all bad or this would be picked up immediately. The longer a person stays, the more (I think) they push down their cognitive dissonance in order to keep on going, up the bridge or whatever their goal is. Usually at some point they can’t take it anymore and leave (or put up with it and stay).
My cousin was not when he started. He was searching. Many like him were away from home, lonely, out of place and off kilter because of it. It is this that made/makes some people susceptible. It is why these groups tended (still- maybe) to recruit around college campuses (I was constantly picking up the boxes of personality surveys left at restaurants near a few universities and throwing them away), kids just out on their own (their hang outs) and low grade service members (where they tend to flock when off duty). And then, once through the door, these potential recruits are told a bunch of things (like only this group can help) and they are love bombed.
Wonderful, Wonderful episode once again, I learned more why my mother wrecked 6 kids.
Liz Gale’s family story was incredibly powerful and very moving. What happened to her brother is so tragic. The young man needed help…but he didn’t know how to get it. He had no one to turn to…..when you are taught from the beginning that everything is your fault and that any kind of emotion is weak…..What Do You Do?
Liz….You Are An Incredible Woman….I Salute Your Courage, Honesty, and Bravery. You have done so much good here…telling your story. I am truly humbled.
Mike and Leah…Thank You for giving people such a great platform to share their stories.
Awesome stuff…im not now or have I ever been “religious”..or affiliated with that “cult”…i know me and my family think what you Leah are doing..and of course all the victims is beyond awesome…i find it hard to believe after some of the abuse reports..spacifically the sexual abuses..that criminal charges are not on going..i also know you weren’t able to discuss these proceedings…thanks for helping these people…they are going down…thanks to you guys..keep it up..
Please tell that girl to sue. She can sue her mother in court for control of the estate for diminished capacity. She can also ask that a court appointed licensed therapist make a determination on her mother’s mental status that will effect the courts decision. Her mom would have to sit down with a therapist, and not sound crazy, which will be difficult with how SCN’s feel about therapists. Also, she could have to answer for the abuse and abandonment as well, they can also be determining factors in the case. In order to sell legally held property you must be in right mind, so if the daughter sues claiming diminished capacity she does have legal ground to stand on and she can also claim abandonment and seek recomp for that as well, And tell her either way she wins, her mom will have to have a sit down with the dreaded therapist OR be in violation of the court, or give up the property–it is a win-win!
here here!
That’s a good idea.
It would be a sin to allow all that beautiful land to end up in the hands of that evil cult.
What kind of mother would choose a cult over her beautiful children ?
She is definitely not of sound mind.
THIS is a GREAT idea!!!! But suing costs money. She may not have the means. And Scientology will probably help foot the mothers lawyer fees so they can say they WON. They will spend millions to seemingly discredit this poor girl. I would be willing to donate to a gofundme to help her with attorney fees. I bet a lot of people would!
I’m sure Liz is aware that she is not really dealing with her mom but rather the cherch because behind the curtain are the OSA bots coaching the Mom on how to dispose of the property and to donate the proceeds to the ‘greatest humanitarian effort on the planet’.
Behind the scenes are the likes of Marion Pouw, Mike Sutter, Hansuli Stahli and Julian Schwartz in overdrive to handle damage control and get the Mom totally away from her daughters ‘evil’ influence and prevent Liz and her children from ever receiving an inheritance.
How do I know this? The cherch ran a similar tactic on me. Separate the wife and kids, force a divorce using all available friends and family and then go for the assets. Fortunately, I knew it was coming and did what I could for damage control. I miss my family, I worry for my kids but I love my life because I have it back!
Get your ducks in a row, rip off the bandaid and DO NOT under estimate your assailant! The cult of Scientology has a parallel in the ‘Game of Thrones’ and they are the ‘white walkers’! Winter is coming …… get your dragonstone ready to hand.
Yo Dave,
Bring it good buddy!
Lou, Lou, Lou goddammit!!! Will you once and for all handle that disaffected CSMF Newcomer. I’ve had it with his jibes. And where the f*** is my Macallan?
Hats off to your analytical mind, Newcomer. You saw what was coming. You held your position in space thru heartbreak and betrayal. You did the right thing. That took brains and persistence and courage.
Nice, Julie Pace!
It’s certainly a valid point.
I love that idea but sadly I think Mike replied to a comment saying it was already sold.
Also, unfortunately I think most attorneys (but definitely a judge) would be wary of legally deciding that one’s “religious choices” (and because our gov’t has failed to have the balls to deal with this vicious cult) equate mental incapacity. That could set a precedent and would involve a degree of getting legally involved in the CO$’s doctrine (make money, money… more money… and damn anyone that gets in the way) plus with a case like that, they’d likely back the mom and support her defense with a team of expensive lawyers with the sole goal of ruining Liz. Not to mention the expense, time and energy.
That said, even if sold she could potentially sue the executor of the estate (her deluded mother) for inappropriately disposing of family assets, depending on how things were worded in any wills or trusts.
Regardless of any of it, Liz puts family first and is FREE like she said. Her mother will forever have to deal with choosing a cult over her son and later doing the same with her daughter. She will be alone, with nothing to show for it, having to live with the fact that her “church” would rather she sell her family’s legacy out from under her daughter & grandchildren than see reconciliation. At some point, living with what she’s done will be worse than any lawsuit or prison because the ONLY person likely to help or take care of her in her old age is the ONE person she screwed over continually! Liz on the other hand has a beautiful family to go with that beautiful heart. And through that she’ll continue to find peace & healing!
Thank you Mike & Leah for continuing to expose this horrid organization for what it is! It’s incredible to see how many people are talking about the show, aware and wanting to help DO something!
It would not surprise me to learn that the cult was the Buyer of Liz’s family land. And, likely at a discounted rate or Quick claimed over. Don’t say I didn’t warn you when the cult builds a retreat there and stashes Shelly.
I am watching last weeks episode again… with a box of tissues. It is heartbreaking to see the wake of sorrow and wreckage this cult leaves. I’m bracing myself for the new episode as these stories have had such a deep impact on me.
Take care of yourselves Mike & Leah. We all see only part of the story but you hear the whole story so take care, stay strong. You were put here for a purpose.
For any Aussies wondering, season 2 of Aftermath will be on Foxtel’s Crime channel from September 27. (Seems the correct channel to screen it on, doesn’t it?)
Liz’s story was a powerful one, and while the entire, horrific, painful telling of that story was important…what she shared at the end just made me exclaim with joy! She demonstrates what a caring and compassionate person she is, in spite of her pain, when she opens her arms to others considering leaving SCN.
Liz – when you said “get your ducks in a row, then rip off the band aid and we will be here for you” there was a ripple – a shock wave of decision. I heard (felt) a collective sigh of relief and resolve. Your powerful communication was received.
So to those seekers, Welcome to the real world. It’s pretty cool out here. And we’re here for you. Go for it. You can do it. You will be okay.
Thank you Liz. From fake perfect family to brave survivor, real Mom, and compassionate person. Blessings to you and your precious family.
It was a POWERFUL episode, you are all doing so well in exposing the mind control and how really good people get caught up into the weird thinking of “lron” I was so impressed with the powerful statement Liz made at the end, speaking directly to people who like all of you have a feeling in the pit of your soul that this thing is wrong and how to prepare and rip off the band aid and come out to a new and loving world.. “Drop the mic” kind of moment. I am so proud of you all, It is never easy to be open to re-learning and discovering a world you were trained to fear and hate. You are ALL doing good work!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another very sad story – thanks Mike – I appreciate the stories being told this season, more of the same as last season would have been a let down. Heck we’re big boys & girls and we need to know the truth! I was shocked to find out little I knew about Scientology last season but this is beyond insane.
Even so, I can’t seem to get Liz’s mom out of my thoughts right now. Just think, if she ever wakes up she will wake up to no husband, no son, no daughter, no grandchildren, no family home and most likely no money and if she were to leave before Scientology implodes no friends, no church, no faith….nothing. I’m actually a bit frightened for her. Walking into that big of a vacuum could be catastrophic. And what is sad is that’s Scientology, it’s all and nothing.
For Liz’s sake and the sake of her grandchildren I cannot not wish her that much ill. I would prefer to leave the door to reconciliation open.
Great job, as usual, Mike. Please continue!
Mike I want to say thank you for taking this walk. I can only imagine the personal guilt you carry and how truly gut wrenching some of these things must be to revisit for you. It is a true testament to how committed you are to exposing the truth and the horrific things that go on all in the name of LRH. PLEASE keep fighting and exposing as much as you can
Well said, David!
I agree David. Mike I hope you are taking good care of yourself. The look in your eyes betrays the horrors you’ve seen. God put you here to take this evil cult down. And you are doing a fantastic job! We’re all so grateful for the work you are doing.
On Aftermath, when the camera pans to Mike unsuspectingly, his expression tells a thousand stories and the pain of his experiences are relived while we watch each episode. It’s heartbreaking to watch him processing and reconciling but at the same time, it’s reaffirming to be part of his healing, simply by watching. This is more than an expose of the cult…this is public group therapy with compassion and empathy for all involved. Sad and beautiful.
Mike, Someone needs to start a GoFundMe campaign to raise the money so Liz can purchase her family’s property in Oregon. And A&E or the show’s advertisers can kick in some seed money to get it started.
Yes!!!! My husband and I were thinking the same thing!
I just thought and wrote a similar thing….or to help with lawyer fees to sue the mother and stop the sale. The mother is mentally incompetent. Not a horrible person, just brainwashed and well….stupid….from the brainwashing. Wow a court case that would deem her mother unfit to make decisions? That would be huge….I’m a low income retired person, but I would donate!!! YES YES YES!!!
I like the idea to do a Go Fund Me account so she can sue her mother and have to have her mother mentally evaluated etc. Sue her for that land.
It makes me wonder how many of these stories exist that have never seen the light of day. How many suicides? Hushed up, covered up, swept under the rug. The contributors have already suffered deeply and yet they do this show knowing the risks involved for further pain. Not for fame or money but to speak their truth and help others. That’s real bravery.
Check out “Why Are They Dead” site put up by an ex Scientologists.
There are more Scientology covered up suicides
coming out in droves
thanks to this show – Mike and Leah….
and all of the very courageous and brave souls who have spoken out
Thank You
theyshouldnothavedied.wordpress.com is pretty interesting as well.
Are the smears and hate videos all personally ordered by Miscavige?
Patricia – I too wondered about that and given the micromanagement style of Fuehrer Miscavige I don’t think we would lose money betting on the answer to the question you pose.
Hana Eltringham Whitfield made a fascinating comment on one of Mike’s recent posts about a smear site that appeared about her from the Church of Smearology. I cn’t find it now but from memory she said that some time after the site appeared she was contacted by an OSA defector to apologise for his/her role in putting together the site. The apology was for lying at the behest of DM who sent the “script” back to the apologist a couple of times with comments along the lines of “rewrite – not defamatory or savage enough”. The final product was of course such over-the-top preposterous garbage that it had the fingerprints of Der Abstrichpropagandameister all over it.
I would love to know more details from Hana and especially from the contrite OSA operative who quit and apologised to one he had hurt under orders. Getting a talkinghead statement from that person to play in the A&E series directly after one of the COS denials that the earth is round would be very powerful if it could be done.
“I wish someone would have told me that I didn’t have to kill myself o get out of this group.” – Liz Gale said this in the show. All I can think of is how pathetic to raise children who come to this conclusion. And how could the mother continue to support Scientology after her son commits suicide, her daughter attempted suicide at 14, and her husband dies suddenly in the middle of an OT procedure. Scientology destroyed this family as well as the entire family legacy. I feel so empathetic to Liz, and utterly disgusted at this unconscionable cult. I lost 16 years of my life to Scientology, but am thankful for leaving when I did. The shows are getting tougher to watch, but how appropriate that Scientology is getting turned inside out with its crimes exposed. The cult spokespeople just keep denying everything, as if that helps.
I’m so glad you got out, I hope this series will help others come to the same conclusion
Beautifully stated. It clearly takes bravery and courage to get out.
I remember when Leah first left Sco. I read an interview where she mentioned leaving for the benefit of her daughter (presumably so she wouldn’t lose her to the church). At the time we (never in) only had a very surface level idea of disconnection and how serious this concern/fear was. With each episode of Aftermath and the brave individuals who come forward it is crystal clear how serious this threat is (and was). As a parent I can’t imagine belonging to a “church” so committed to self preservation that it will destroy family units to neutralize the threat. The consequences of belonging to this “church” are devastating to individuals and our society.
It is both heart warming and terrifying that the truth of Scientology is being fully understood in all its ramifications by those ‘never in.’ It’s a horror story that must be told!
The so called “religious” calamity enforced by Scientology is hard to wrap your thinking gear around but there should be a HUGE sign on every Scientology front door – PARENTS, FAMILIES & FRIENDS BEWARE – CHILDREN ARE AT EXTREME RISK OF BEING TURNED AGAINST YOU WITH THIS CULT!
More info here: http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Accounts_of_Scientology%27s_Disconnection_Policy_by_Former_Members_and_Others
Very hard to watch. I can’t believe how blind these people are. I guess brainwashed would be a better word. I worry about y’all. Just how far would these people go to stop you and Leah? I wish y’all had some kind of body guards, even though I know that wouldn’t be possible. Please watch your backs! I will keep y’all in my thoughts and prayers!
Yes that use to be worthy of consideration, but think again too. The instability within society is a two way street. As the truth of Scientology gets well known it places all Scientologists at risk too. There’s lots of reasons for them to start being worried. Miscavige is terrified of being out and about and resides in a bunker environment for his own safety. Scientologists themselves become aware of this eventually and it reflects in their own lives.
The criminality of Scientology is catching up with it. Scientology has also become a toothless tiger and lurks in the shadows. It doesn’t even like using the term Scientology anymore! It has relied on a fear factor such as yours for a long time but that is being eroded by the anger being generated by the truth. Excuse the French – fuck them!
“Prison of belief” is an accurate description.
I have had 8000 visits to my blog in he last 7 days – almost all of the traffic from people watching your and Leah’s show. I have never seen so much hate being generated for anyone in my life as you and Leah have generated for Cathy Tweed. People are doxing Cathy Tweed online with her address and maiden name.
Seeing what I’ve seen on my blog, I am actually concerned for her safety at this point.
I am disgusted beyond belief.
If anything happens to her, you, and Leah, and Tony Ortega will be responsible.
Alanzo
Not seen anything like this here.
How come all the haters are attracted to your blog Alanzo?
Sounds like you are stirring things up pretty badly by trying to defend the indefensible.
Alanzo, I suggest you take a moment and consult your inner self. You need to ‘man up’ good buddy and stop being your mental images.
Holy shit, Alanzo, you’re WAY off base.
Probably one of the most sociopathic responses I’ve ever seen on the Internet. You are told that people are doxing a person you trashed on your show, and you say “I haven’t seen anything like that around here! It must be you, Alanzo!”
Total Sea Org.
This is what you get when you give the guy who ran OSA for 25 years his own TV show.
Alanzo
Funny about that Alanzo.
You come here to tell me how I am responsible for people doxing someone on YOUR site.
I say it must be YOU.
And that is the “most sociopathic response I’ve ever seen on the internet”?
You are SO blinded with hate you didn’t even notice that I simply turned what you claimed about me around on you and accused you of doing precisely what you accused me of doing (being responsible for the postings people are doing on the internet) and after you just did this to me you now claim it’s the most sociopathic thing you’ve ever seen. Take a look in the mirror Alanzo. You threw that sociopathic stone, I just tossed it back to you.
Take a deep breath.
I have a theory, as I do from time to time:
So far it’s been the males who are coming out and attacking Aftermath. They are usually very intellectual type males.
Scientology is an anti emotion cult. Dealing with emotions, in Scientology, is not seen as a valid form of therapy or process.
Hubbard called it HE&R: human emotion and reaction. Emotions in Scientology are part of the relative mind; an aberration.
You can see that the emotions of Scientologists on Aftermath from mothers are simply suppressed out of them. Their emotional connections to their kids is squashed from L Ron Hubbard’s sick twisted doctrines.
Aftermath is dealing with emotions. People are expressing their pain. People are crying.
In Scientology crying is considered an aberration. Feelings are considered an aberration.
These men who are coming forward to criticize Mike and Leah are demonstrating the effects of their Scientology experience even though they say the are out of the church.
These men are out of touch with their emotions and feelings. Aftermath is awash with people expressing their painful emotions.
Scientology seeks to suppress emotions by auditing them. These men are out of touch with emotion.
Remember, for Ron, hate was a higher on the tone scale than sympathy.
In Scientology sympathy is a negative. These men are still affected by their Scientology experience. Aftermath is all about sympathy and empathy for the suffering of others.
These men need therapy. They cannot deal with the emotions that Aftermath is un-suppressing.
Guys, dealing with emotions are a valid form of healing. Ron was way out of touch with emotions and past that trait onto us.
Emotions make these men uncomfortable. Their blame game criticism of you Mike, is the measure of their suppressed emotions. Emotions make them so uncomfortable that they must criticize those giving voice to people’s real pain.
These men are out of touch with their own pain and suffering. They need our patience. They are unaware of an entire side of their personality: FEELING!!
Mike, Is this Alanzo identity an actual person or an OSA bot? Seems pretty botty to me.
Yes, it’s Allen Stansfield
Yo Allen good buddy. Hey, I think you outta stop on by for a beer and a too by four next time you are up at the CST compound in Tuolumne. I’d love to listen to some real whining and sniveling in person for a change rather than your come from behind little sneak attacks.
I guess I don’t fully know what the consequences of “doxing” someone is. To me it sounds like looking for documents or facts about a person by googling them. What can be the harm in that? Why is that evil and hateful? I must be missing something here. If they were all making bad horrible death threats on her FB account or something, that is a different story. But Allen Stansfield, aka Alonzo said they were merely “doxing” her. What exactly does that entail?
Even if someone made a death threat, it still wouldn’t be Mike, Leah, or Tony’s fault.
People are responsible for their own words and actions. Period.
Alanzo – what is going on with you? You are delusional and acting a bit crazy. Did Scientology pay you off too – like Marty Rathbun? You need professional help. You are making a fool out of yourself and as LRH would say …..”dramatizing your Scientological CASE”
You poor thing. I hope you can find some relief.
Since ‘lonzo returned in questionable circumstances from his self-imposed exile, a number of folks like me have been asking him to STFU about his opinion — which no one cares about or trusts anyhow — and to start talking about something that IS of interest and concern to us here, which he DOES have first-hand knowledge about.
Specifically, I’d love to hear him tell us everything he knows about the beginnings of Marty’s turn back to the Dark Side and the specific circumstances of his decision to finally break with Marty’s useless, treasonous ass. Other than that, I’d just like him to remind us of who the actual dead person is here and what he thinks $cn had to do with HER not getting the help that she needed in order to remain alive.
You have the audacity to call Mike “sociopathic”?? Well, that’s just precious.
Look in the mirror, Alonzo. You have some serious issues. Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs…and then some.
By the way, you never answered my question. How are Mike, Leah & Tony responsible for other people’s actions & words?? By your logic, YOU’RE responsible for anything someone says or does after they read your blog.
That’s totally and completely asinine.
I get amazed by people like you Alanzo. You mistakenly believe the internet is a LIFE replacement. Keyboard warriors such as yourself run away terrified by what they would run into out in the real world when they are away from their computers and the safety of their own 4 walls. You reside in a world of pretentious shadows – hope you enjoy your introversion, it’s all you’ve got and all you are capable of doing with others!
But thanks for posting – it’s worth a chuckle or two when you expose your insanity. I would normally say to people like you, “get a life,” but what you do is as good as it gets hey?
Good post, I Yawn.
Alanzo!
I’ve just read some shit from Alanzo,
And suddenly that name
Will never be the same
To me.
Alanzo!
I’ve just met a clown named Alanzo,
And suddenly I’ve found
How horrible a sound
Can be!
Alanzo!
Say it loud and there’s discord playing,
Say it soft and it’s almost like preying.
Alanzo,
He’ll never stop lurking, Alanzo!
LOL. Thanks for the laugh, Moxie.
Thanks Aqua, I’m always good for a laugh. ?
This coming from Alanzo, who has publicly dragged numerous people through the mud. Look at some of the things he has posted online about others. Creep.
Heads that!
Thank you Judge Alanzo.
Could you please post a link to your blog?
Just click his name . . . he conveniently forget to mention in one of his posts that Leah and Mike do ask for people from Scientology to come speak on their show.
https://alanzosblog.com. I was hard pressed to find 8,000 threats.
It’s just a few people whose posts are allowed through. And he repeats himself by adding quotation marks, then attributing the quote! It’s hilarious.
“Its just a few whose posts are allowed through.”
Just like lying, back-stabbing Marty.
Like Marty, Alanzo can’t handle anyone who doesn’t fully agree with his crazy shit.
Alanzo be gonzo.
And because I’m such a West Side Story fan, let me pile on:
Deeeear kindly Troll Alanzo
Ya gotta understand
You’re just a verbal Bonzo
Whose comments should be canned.
You really cannot think straight
You always sound so nuts
Golly Moses, go away you Putz.
?
I’m guessing that you carefully moderate your blog to remove any evidence of “doxing” Ms. Tweed’s personal information – because that would be the right thing to do.
Even though you’d like to hold Mike and Leah responsible if something happens to her, I’m sure you don’t want to be responsible for publishing her PII. And giving the authorities any hard, published evidence that could be used against you, personally.
Your outrage is palpable. I’m quite certain you’re doing the right thing even as you read this message…you’re deleting all the hate messages on your blog.
Dude….give it a rest….will you? Your train has left the station….on its way to CrazyTown.
And by Dude….I mean Alanzo. I don’t think you belong here.
I don’t know who you are Alonzo, or anything about you, but Leah and Mike have stated over and over that it really isn’t the people’s fault….they are brainwashed. .Scientologists are often good people thinking they are doing the right things….. Leah and Mike show compassion to those brainwashed people that make terrible decisions…..geeeze….have you even really watched the show? They aren’t hating on anyone!
Oh please, just spare us your complete nonsense already.
So, if someone does something crazy because of anything you’ve said, it’s YOUR responsibility?? Yeah, try to explain that one, genius.
I love how you throw Tony in there at the last minute. How clever you & Marty must think you are. LOL.
You’re a piece of f****n work. Seek help, stat.
So you are getting tons of traffic on your blog – and that is a bad thing? You normally like your blog to be unread? Isn’t this a golden opportunity to get your message out to 8000 people?
Anyway, I leave the doxxing to the experts in the Scientology secret police / black ops division. We don’t need to doxx people as we have the truth on our side.
Are CNN, NBC, NYT,, et al., responsible for the hate being generated towards your president? Are celebrities responsible for the actions of every one of their fans? Is Call of Duty responsible for school shootings? Is the Koran to blame for Islamic terror? Questions, questions.
I’m batting .1000 I tagged Alanzo as a sociopath shortly after reading Mike’s blog a couple years ago.
So, if a reporter reports correctly about a person mentally abusing their daughter who then commits suicide and a person then dox’es the mother somewhere else on the internet, it is the reporters fault and responsibility?
It doesn’t get any more insane than that folks.
Well, I wouldn’t say he’s a sociopath quite as strongly….just very confused and still attempting to reconcile his cult experiences. As others have professed and Leah mentions repeatedly on Aftermath, it takes a long time to deprogram from cult toxicity. This is a complete Worldview change and some out of the bubble are further up on the “bridge” to recovery than others. His blog is really just an avenue for his recovery. It’s easier right now for him to blame others because he himself is a victim. However, I would rename the blog to “The Alanzo and Peter Show”. Jus saying…
And proof that the Cof$ causes mental illness…
It’s a very good point to keep in mind. Folks take as long as they need in order to finally get completely clear of the cult. For those ex-cultists, who had pre-existing personality disorders before getting into the cult, getting out of it doesn’t mean that they’re no longer a sociopath or narcissist.
Since $cn quite obviously can make any pre-existing mental or emotional condition worse, it’s not hard to understand how for some, like Marty and Alonzo, even the remainder of this lifetime won’t be enough to clear them of that.
Some assholes don’t require Scientology to fuck themselves & others up. It’s a tough head trip to fathom but society has many forms of flaws as well as the good stuff. When those types of assholes mix in with cult like activities, something new and horrible emerges usually camouflaged. Beware, is good advice!
Harpoona Frittata, I always want to mention it, but I don’t think I ever have. When I say it causes mental illness, I say it not as an insult, but as an awareness from someone (me) who was caused some degree of mental illness, from having been so deeply involved. Fortunately, I left with my young children before sinking deeper into mental illness. I never crossed that line that many staff members do of abandoning their children. If I had, I most certainly would have been in much worse shape than I was when I left.
It took a lot of years and a lot of living to unravel the “mind fluck” I experienced. And even 12 years after leaving, I knew I still had twisted, unreal views of myself and the world that I’d formed completely and solely from the church and all it encompassed. I was still mentally ill, in other words. Probably not enough to be diagnosed with any particular condition, but I knew my thinking wasn’t right. I definitely wasn’t mentally healthy.
I went to Mark Rathbun to resolve these final vestiges of messed up thinking that I hadn’t been able to shake and will ever be grateful to him for helping me sort them out and finally rid myself of these twisted, narcissistic ideas forever. He was perfect for the task, because he knew where it all came from.
It wasn’t until then, that I was truly and finally freed from the brainwashing. I regained the humanity I had arrived with way back in 1987, but had lost along the way. I was no longer mentally ill and could work to become mentally healthy; a work which is in progress. 🙂
Exactly what I, and others, have been saying.
But Alonzo refuses to answer my question: Is it HIS fault when people do (or say) dangerous things after they’ve read his blog. Ignore tech at its finest…LOL.
Poor Alonzo — he’s completely bought into this whole “troika” rubbish. But, of course, I’m hardly surprised. And if he does come up with an answer to my question, it’ll be some kind of blathering, beat-around-the-bush, absurd answer.
I can’t find any sites doxing Cathy Tweed. No one has commented on her FB page. Googling her name just brings up the standard results. This does seem to be a perfect example of standard Scientology practices, though. Attack. Alonzo, Scientology is slowly, steadily being dragged out into the light. You can’t stop it. It is a snowball heading down hill at this point. You can stand in front of it and get swept away or you can get out of the way. No matter, either way. Attacking Mike is not going to change any of the momentum at this point. The best thing you can do is just mosey on back to your own blog and do what you do. Leave the rest to the grown ups to handle.
Alanzo you need to look at what you are doing in relation to others. You constantly spew hate and blame yet when others point out the destruction caused by the mindset of this cult they are the haters.
As far as the threats to Cathy Tweed, did you delete any personal information off your site, did you contact the police about the threats? Yes or no?
Before you continue with the constant blame and hate look to your own actions and mindset. They appear to be the destructive evil you claim others to be.
Alanzo, I remember well when I liked your comments long ago. Thank you for exposing the real you. Many, like I, had been fooled , but it’s understandable now. So sorry!
Big Al,
Have you considered retreating to the Himalayas?
Alanzo – go away already!
Anyone know where Allen Stansfield lives these days. Sounds like he might need a friend to stop by and play some pool with him.
“Meanwhile back at the ranch, Tonto, not realizing that the lone ranger (Alanzo) was cleverly disguised as a fool (I mean pool) table, racked his balls.”
(I have loved that joke since I was a kid!)
Yo Dave,
You ARE next!
What an amazing show. It got this old 63 year old guy to have tears running down his cheeks. NB: I did not cry – I just had tears that kept coming out of my eyes.
Seriously though, it was so sad to see how the cult destroyed Liz’s family but it is so amazing how strong she is. Her description of events and the display of her love for her brother and family really hit home.
Thanks for the great show Leah, Mike & Liz. Loved it.
Another sad and powerful episode. I was already familiar with the tale of the Gale family from other sources so there weren’t any major surprises here. But hearing the story in Elizabeth’s own words and seeing the pain that it’s caused her is a very different thing than simply reading about it.
What happened with the family ranch? Was it sold – is it still the beautiful forested land or is it being developed? If sold, what happened to the money from the sale – did it go to Scientology? It is so sad that the great- grandparents who sacrificed so much to come and homestead and their descendent (Elizabeth’s mother) could take it away her grandchildren – her own family legacy. Gina
Hello all. I didn’t watch the entire episode ..the main thing on my mind after 45 minutes is. How can a sane mother not feel some shame/despair when their child commits suicide? ?
“How can a sane mother not feel some shame/despair when their child commits suicide? ?” …… in short…Scientological cultural programming. (insert L Ron Hubbard into where your own judgement and determinism SHOULD be)
The part that stuck out to me on this episode is definitely the suicide note. “I’m scared of the fall. I’m scared of the impact, but when it’s done it’s done.” How incredibly heartbreaking. That line will stick with me for a while. He even drew a smiley face on there to attempt to help cheer his family up. He seemed like a very caring man, and it makes me absolutely angry that the “church” keeps ruining lives and getting away with it. So glad that there are people like you and Leah, like Liz, who publicly stand up to them.
Thank you for sharing these stories, even though they are heartbreaking. Interesting that Louis Farrakhan liked scientology, as I see parallels with scientology and islam.
At some time, would you consider how a non-scientologist should interact with one? I mean, without alienating them? Currently, I am unaware of anyone I know practicing this “religion”. How is best to be supportive of the person, without supporting the cult? Is there anything a non-member could say to spark an insite? (I would never call it a cult to them, as I do understand that it is a belief system and do not wish to be hurtful to anyone).
Probably not, but perhaps you can give us, who cannot really understand, some hints on how to be helpful not hurtful.
Important distinction. Louis Farrakhan is from the *Nation of Islam* – which is not the mainstream Islam of Sunni, Shai, Sufi, etc. A couple of time Louis Farrakhan dangled the idea of moving NOI to join with and become Sunni Islam, and even had many leaders in the American Muslim community come to NOI gatherings in preparation in the 1990s, but nothing ever came of it.
The beliefs and cosmology of the NOI (as outlined on Wikipedia) are not the beliefs of pretty much any other Muslim sect. As such many Muslims do not consider the NOI part of Islam.
Belief.net has a nice chart about the differences in belief between NOI and traditional Islam http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/2002/10/Chart-Nation-of-Islam-and-Traditional-Islam.aspx
Many people like Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali started in NOI but then moved to Sunni Islam. Malcolm X famously did this after Hajj (the annual pilgrimage to Mecca during the month of Dhu al-Hajj. Made at any other time this pilgrimage is called Umrah ) writing this famous letter :
— begin letter —
There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the white and the non-white.
You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to rearrange much of my thought patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions. This was not too difficult for me. Despite my firm convictions, I have been always a man who tries to face facts, and to accept the reality of life as new experience and new knowledge unfolds it. I have always kept an open mind, which is necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of intelligent search for truth.
During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass and slept in the same bed (or on the same rug)-while praying to the same God with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of the blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white. And in the words and in the actions and in the deeds of the ‘white’ Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan and Ghana.
We are truly all the same-brothers.
All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
— end letter —
It was then he left NOI . . . the story is that after ward NOI banned members from going to Hajj. However they seem to have gone on Hajj (which is an issue within the Muslim world due to NOIs apparent conflict with the Shahada (declaration of faith). Farrakhan suspended NOI from Hajj in 2016 due to unrest.
NOI and traditional Islam are not interchangeable . . . and really irritates a lot of people when they are conflated.
I’m still reeling from this story. A mother who will sell her legacy to prevent her child from having anything to do with it because she publicly left Scientology. A son who killed himself because he had no way of dealing with this permanent sadness. No outlet, being sent away, no where to turn. And when you see a psychiatrist. Wow then the fireworks go off. Scientology says disconnection is a choice. But to them it’s the choice of the person being disconnected from. You are acting against Scientology so therefore you are choosing to make us have to disconnect and let you go. If you start acting better we will come back. We don’t love or accept you unconditionally. Which parental love should always be. That brilliant mind wasted. 16 and accepted into MIT? Wow! I have to say that surprised me because I thought Scientologists didn’t get much of an education. I guess it’s just the Sea Org members that get cheated of that. So despite itself The Delphi Academy must be academically sound? I just feel inconsolable for these people you have introduced us to. I’m glad Liz Gale is out of that cult. I hope she can forgive herself. I know she is doing right by her sons. I hope Marie Gale will come to her senses before she dies alone. But I doubt it.
Dave,
Hurt Update:
Your slush fund sell game of phony entities’ attacks and legal assistance (e.g.your Mark) are fully transparent to investigators. This includes cash, currencies and precious metals; sure to have a similar cray cray effect on you as putting a lump of clean coal in Trite bashing bluesartwater’s morning coffee. As the Chief Brown Noser of Hubbard, your day of reckoning is approaching. The pretzel keeps on twisting; NOT for long.
Wow another eye opening episode. This family was the poster children for this cult and yet it reaked havoc on them. Gone forever is the relationship between mother and daughter, 110 years of historical home ownership and the worst is the death of a child.
As I live right across the street from the “hole”in Clearwater I am reminded everyday that there are so many of these people in crisis. Mike I want you to know if there is anything my husband and i can do don’t hesitate to ask. We are local and willing to help.
Another informative episode. Thanks Mike & Leah for giving those brave souls a platform to share what they have been through.
Prayers that every week, more of those that are trapped will break free.
Mike, wow. This episode. I just got out of a high control group, ESP/NXIVM. This episode really showed me how much the leader of this group stole from Scientology. I watched this episode with tears in my eyes, because I see this happening to my friends and the people who refuse to leave. I’m so scared eventually some of my close friends may commit suicide…We as well were also guilted into going to the leaders birthday and doing crazy celebrations. Just so many parallels…
What you are doing is important work, and I’m hoping that someday I can make a show about my group and get people help and expose what they are doing to the world, just as you have done with Scientology.
Thank you for giving the victims a voice. For showing the truth.
Glad you’re out Jane. Raniere is another monster cut from the cloth of megalomania and paranoia as Hubbard.
Mike, once again you and Leah hit at the heart of the problem. This series takes so much courage and I can’t help but wonder if you are beating yourself up for any past actions you have done. Please know it takes more courage to say you are sorry for your part in wrong doing than to live the perfect life (as if that were ever possible.) You and Leah give such wonderful loving examples of compassion, honesty and empathy in what must be very difficult moments to hear. As hard as this is to say, the things you uncover are often found in many religious organizations, especially in the infancy stage. Every person experiences in-group/out-group dynamics that are so strongly present in Scientology. The lessons you offer with this series are lessons in humility. The humbleness it takes to acknowledge the wrong and commit to correcting it is a lesson that everyone can value, whether Scientologist or not.
You, my friend, are a Truth Seeker and that is something that is always noble. Prayers for your continued courage as you and Leah embark on this journey with others. Thank you for sharing it in the series and in your blog. The good you do will reap rewards far beyond anything Scientology ever promised you!
Another intense episode! I love the work that you and Leah are doing! Elizabeth has such strength and clarity! I’m sure her healing will continue. I hate how abandoned she feels and that her mom is so heartless when it comes to the family home.
The POW videos are up. Did you catch Marie’s second video? The whole topic is how her son called the counselor a “dipshit” and she talks about how it didn’t help him and insinuates it even HARMED him as he took his life shortly after “seeing through” this counselor. We… we’re talking about your departed son and THIS is the point you want to make?? I have no words.
It’s disgusting. And in the first, she somehow blames Mike Rinder for her disconnection. Unreal.
I for one, will not view any of these smear sights . Opening the sites only gives them credence and ‘hit #’s’ for them to boast about. Completely ignoring them is the worst punishment we can mete out to them and the Best Thing we can do in support of the victims left in their wake.
You are absolutely right. I typically don’t but sometimes I’ll see something in the comments here and I just want to know what they’re talking about! But you are right, and I’ll resist my curiosity from now on!! 🙂
I like to watch them if only for a good chuckle.
So much that is coming out about the practices are consistent with classic cults. Separating family members from each other thus creating isolation. Separating members from the outside world, again more isolation. But then there are also things said by the survivors that remind me of my own upbringing in evangelical Christianity. I’m wondering if there will be an episode about how celebrity scientologists are treated differently and kept unaware of much of the craziness? I haven’t heard of any celebrities sending their children off to Sea Org or boarding schools for example.
Actress Anne Archer’s son Tommy Davis joined the Sea Org after graduating from high school. He was spokesman for the chuch at one time.
Tom Cruise first set of children were sent to a scientology school. That’s why Katie Holmes got her daughter out of there before she could be sent away.
Star,
My thoughts exactly. If Katie Holmes has been watching this series she must be feeling great that she walked out when he did. Siri will learn in time that NO father is much better than couch-jumping Tom.
There are some second generation celebs who grew up in the church…Juliet Lewis comes to mind. And Chick Correa’s daughter. Not sure if they’re still in. I had a friend growing up who graduated LA’s Apple School with Lisa Marie Presley…so, yes, there are those “celebrity” kids who have been fully indoctrinated too.
My sister dated John Brodie’s son back in the 80’s and he was full on SCN.
As recently as about 5 years ago, actress Judy Norton Taylor (of the Waltons) was actively trying to recruit Chiropractors into SCN in Noerthern CA. I had heard she’d had a few kids.
And what about Bart Simpson herself “honorary Mayor of the San Fernando Valley”? Where do Nancy Cartwright’s kids go to school?
In her living room, probably.
T.C.’s kids…..both went the the Delphi school.
I believe even Lauren Haggis from last week was sent to the Delphi school.
You and Leah are doing such important work. I couldn’t be more appalled by this “church.” In addition to watching your series, I have read several books about Scientology and ones by former Scientologists. It’s almost unbelievable! How can someone like me help you in your fight?
No.church.does.this. And no for-profit cult calling themselves one in order to get a tax exemption deserves to keep it. They can’t go over the cliff soon enough.
I had a question, maybe someone who is a lawyer could answer. If Mike and Leah were lying on every show, couldn’t Li’l Davey sue for libel? Rather than make 250 stupid websites, you would think Monique would be suing the heck out of everyone.
Exactly. Doesn’t that prove the show & all the guests are legit? Yes. Yes it does. Cuz if they could, they would have sued already. Just like they haven’t sued Mike, Leah ..
I am not a lawyer, but Dave won’t sue again. Not after what happened with Debbie Cook. Just look up her video, in tears on the witness stand telling worse stories that the ones she got sued for. Dave is not making that mistake again.
But I wish he would send a representative to present his case on the “Aftermath” show. I’m betting they would be covered fairly. No one is trying to make it seem worse than it really is. It can’t be worse. But they can’t see it, the blindness of blind faith is in their eyes. None are so blind as those who will not see. Or those whose livelihood depends on selective blindness.
Can’t wait to see Monique Yingling of the obviously lying blinking eyes try to make it all OK because they have muffins at the Int Base….
Her own muffins are wayyy past the ‘sell by’ date. Zero credibility, a la Karin Pouw; merely a screen name and log-on for Dave.
Yes, Miscavige could sue for slander. But he would have to prove that Mike and/or Leah, et al. were lying. He would also leave himself open to be cross-examined on the witness stand and I don’t think he wants that, given the subject material on this program. I’d pay good money to see it though.
I thought the episode was powerful. Scientology presents a “family friendly” image but is destructive to families. I was struck at the LRH birthday video that says his name “is synonymous with freedom in every land.” Hopefully by now, as people watch this amazing series, his name will be synonymous with “evil” in every land. What a great season. I watch each episode and don’t want them to end.
LRH was right in one respect, he is an anti-Christ…..Am I OT 8 now?
Am I OT 8 now?….Not yet, Grasshopper. There’s a little matter of money…. the amount is obscene! ….but you do get “SuperPowers” (which don’t seem to work when you need them?)
If you know who you are not now, and you’re ready to go find out who you are… 🙂
So sad once again. Heartbreaking to think of children not having their parents because of Scientology.
I just can’t understand why people worship LRH??
Thank you all so much for sharing this. I’m very fascinated with Scientology and wow what an eye opener. You all very courageous
I agree!