This IS what fundamentalist scientologists believe. They are taught NOT to think.
And it is the greatest, all-encompassing “thought stopper” in scientology. The perfect fallback when all else fails.
If you know a truly dedicated fundamentalist scientologist, you will know that this is the mindset of them all. An absolute certainty that they know the answer to everything in the universe if they study enough L. Ron Hubbard. Within his words are contained “the answers to every question anyone may have about life…” And this is truly everything.
You want to know all there is to know about the behavior of man, LRH covered it. Why some people are criminals. Got that covered too. Curing drug addiction. Check. Feeding babies. Marketing. PR. Economics. Governments. Washing windows. Legal. Cooking a steak. Raising horses. Designing a building. Happiness. Anger. Communism. Photography. Mining. Insanity. You name it, he has it explained. You need study nothing other than the words of L. Ron Hubbard. And there is absolutely no need for you to think or have an original thought for yourself. If you cannot find an LRH quote to cover it it simple means you need to buy more books and lecture series, listen to them or if you have done that, then “find your MU’s.”
This certainty gives fundamentalist scientologists an unmistakable air of arrogance. There is nothing they don’t know how to do. In fact, as Tom Cruise so famously said, they truly believe they are the ONLY ones that can effectively handle any situation. This certainty of their invincibility cuts them off from the fruits of observation. Anything that does not conform to their view of how the world SHOULD be is explained by some subset of “we know the answers to everything”: The SP’s are trying to destroy us. The tech was not applied standardly. Society is low-toned. Too many overts. NCG. Unhandled Ev Purps. Merchants of Chaos. The squirrels only scream when we are expanding. etc etc etc They live in a self-perpetuating circular universe: They are certain they have the ONLY tech that will salvage all mankind. The tech is 100% workable all of the time. The only reason they have NOT take over the world with their easily available 100% workable technology to salvage mankind (which you would think would be more popular than Coca Cola) is because there are forces that are dedicated to stopping this from happening (of course Coca Cola does not have the evil empire of whole track enslavers fighting against them every inch of the way). There is no logic to this, as they are also certain they have the only “tech” and are the only people who can deal with those forces of evil. That they have not done so is explained by their failure to apply the tech standardly. And they will go on trying to correct their failures forever as they have been convinced this is the only reason it doesn’t work. But then the tech that cannot be applied is perhaps not infallible? And you are down the rabbit hole never to return.
This could be a long dissertation which I dont have the time to write. Jeff Hawkins covered the subject of thought stopping more eloquently than me in his 2010 blog post.
This promo piece just got me started…
And it is a subject that is worth bringing up every now and then, as it is the fundamental reason there IS a bubble and a prison of belief that is so difficult to escape from.
Thank you. Peter. May I share with you my favorite quote? (second only to Mark Twain’s “Wagner’s music is better than it sounds”) It’s by George Orwell.
“On the whole, people want to be good, but not too good and not quite all the time”.
That was an incredible post , dear Mike ; it perfectly describes fundamentalism as related to Scientologists.
This “Thought-stopping” aspect that you refer to, is a key element that turns any group into a cult. Even though that a cult could be described by dozens of specific and different characteristics, this “Thought-stopping” aspect is the one that actually forbids inspection, and the one that gives “power” to the cult’s leader. W/out that aspect , the group is totally harmless ; at least most of them.
Steven Hassan created an excellent model to explain the mechanisms that makes up a cult. He called it , “BITE” , which stands for the cult’s control of the individual’s “behavior” , “intellect or information” , “thoughts” , and “emotions”. The information can be found at :
https://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php
I’ll go briefly over some aspects to illustrate the point , and to relate it to Scientology. I am quoting Hassan all along (within quotation marks), and below that, my own comments of how many of his points of the BITE model applies to Scn so accurately. I am not necessarily including all of his points. For more information go to the above link. I think that Hassan explains the mechanisms behind cults better than any cult expert before.
A. BEHAVIOR CONTROL
1. “Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence.”
The extremely low pay that the Scn staff receive, specially SO members , is an example of this. LRH living as a king (as compared to the others) while hard dedicated people busted their asses in a 14 hours a day schedule , living in very gruesome conditions.
2. “Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time.”
So many SO members who couldn’t even have a vacation to spend time with their family , as they were not “upstat” enough. One is also required as a public – in order to “not waste this precious time to secure your eternity”- , to attend to courses and processing all the available time after work. Family time is not encourage, even in the public themselves (in the SO this the standard practice) as that would be having “other-intentions”. This one aspect is one of the most enslaving ones that Scn possesses : spending all your free time in Scn.
3. “Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet.”
That was basically explained in #2 above. EVERYTHING in Scn is about going up the Bridge (processing and training) as fast as possible, and any other attitude is considered “out-ethics” , and are even handled as such by the E/Os and MAAs. Ironically, “Freedom” , which should be a totally self-determined endeavor, is forced upon us by LRH. Not advised, not suggested, not encouraged, but forced by the “ethics” system. Ironically , LRH says that any being has a right to his own sanity and life , but if one wishes not going up the Bridge , or doing it at our own pace , then one is considered “out-ethics” by LRH himself , as that is , according to him , a manifestation of “self-destruction”. In others words , one isn’t even allowed to die in one wishes to. I reserve my fucking right to die whenever I want to.
4. “Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors.”
The very well known subject of K/Rs (Knowledge Reports) , that so frequently is used to report violations to the Scn codes. EVERYTHING is reported these days ; any “improper” thoughts or any signs of disaffection.
5. “Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative.”
The subject of Scientology’s “Rewards and Punishment” system. “Upstat” = Reward, as LRH or the Church is making money then. “Downstat” = punishment = low conditions = MEST work ; you are not making any money for LRH, how dare you. “He has got 5 kids to feed” to paraphrase a “Total Recall” dialogue.
6. “Discourage individualism, encourage group-think.”
Even though that LRH cleverly stresses in his writings that the Individual is everything and not the group, his demands of the parishioners tell otherwise. KSW #1 encourages “Group-think” , and not Individualism. The concept of “Standard Tech” being infallible and a high crime not to follow, IS, IS “Group-think” and not an individual decision. You are “allowed” your “individuality” as long as you FOLLOW LRH to the letter ; in other words, as long as you are a robot to “Authority”. That is what I call “Enforced Individualism”.
7. “Impose rigid rules and regulations.”
The Scn codes ; what could be more rigid than that ? In Scn everything is “urgent” , “serious” , and “vital”. Such an stressful atmosphere indeed !
8. “Instill dependency and obedience.”
The Scn codes again. Dependency is instilled by bringing LRH to the level of a god-like individual, right about EVERYTHING he ever wrote about, and Scientology allegedly being Man’s only route to spiritual “Salvation”. The concept of “Standard Tech” and KSW #1 also instills that dependency and obedience. In fact , they were created with that purpose in mind : To control your thoughts and behavior.
INFORMATION CONTROL
1. Deception:
a.” Deliberately withhold information.”
The “Upper” level materials. Confidentiality was never about “protecting” your case ; it was always about the “Mystery-sandwich” to keep you ON the Bridge to keep bringing money in. And about not creating bad PR for the group. We bought this BS about “confidentiality”. I wish that I could show the reaction of MS2 posters when I only slightly hinted at the “Clear Cog”. Hillarious!!!
b. “Distort information to make it more acceptable.”
c. “Systematically lie to the cult member.”
DM is an expert at item C above : lying to the members. He lied about LRH’s death, he lied about LRH’s involvement in Snow White, he lied about the real reasons about LRH’s hiding in the last 6-7 years of his life. He lied about David Mayo. He lied about the OT levels beyond VIII, and he lied about New OT VIII. He lied about every fucking important thing.
And LRH ? He lied about his past, his family, his education, his awards, his sources, his “OT” abilities, the “whole-track” , the OT levels’ content, the real products of the Bridge (about the EPs) , about his alleged past lives , about his real motives, etc, etc , etc, etc, etc, etc …………………..
2.” Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including: a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media b.Critical information c. Former members d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate.”
Not allowed to Google-search Scn to “protect you from entheta” , and no need to look for other sources of information as LRH discovered everything that needed to be discovered, and wrote about anything that you need to know about ANY damn subject.
3.” Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines.”
a. “Ensure that information is not freely accessible.”
The Copy-rights and Trademarks issue. The subject about squirreling. It was always the battle against others freely using the materials as they saw fit. This point alone eliminate Scn from the ranks of a bona fide religion. It was always about creating a monopoly , I am afraid. Power and money motivations.
b. “Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when.”‘
Only DM decides about anything , and before him, LRH.
4. “Encourage spying on other members.”
a. “Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership.”
The K/Rs a member is expected to write on other members (and even on their own spouses!!!) for any CI (Counter Intention) , or “disaffected” thought. I remember my 2D even writing K/Rs on me. Fortunately , I am no longer into the senseless 2D game.
5. “Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including: a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media.”
b.”Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources.”
“They are only SPs” , when quoting a critic , always lying about them to deceive parishioners. DM is an expert at this.
6. “Unethical use of confession.”
a. “Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries.”
The “Confessional” is frequently used to control your obedience to the group’s rules and dogma. They make you feel guilty for not doing the “greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” , and thus bond you with the others. I think that few Scientologists ever realizes about this one point. Confessions , under a cult scenario , bond you to the group.
c.” Manipulation of memory, possible false memories.”
OT II, III and the Clearing Course. It all happened as LRH says so , and he had “Total Recall”. We petty humanoids must just trust the 2nd god in Scn : The E-meter.
THOUGHT CONTROL
1. “Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth.”
“Scn is man’s only chance for Salvation”. “LRH was right about everything.” “Scn is perfection itself” , etc, etc, etc.
a. “Instill black and white thinking.”
Is either LRH’s way, or nothing else. Totally a two-valued “logic”.
b. “Decide between good vs. evil”
“Good” is everything LRH says it is, and “Bad” is everything that opposes Scn or criticize it. Pretty simple , isn’t it ?
c. “Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders).”
“Us v/s psychiatry” , “us v/s the government” , “us v/s the medical doctor” , “us v/s science” , “us v/s the Squirrel” , “us v/s the Wogs” , etc, etc, etc.
3. “Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words.”
Scn’s nomenclature. A bunch of balderdash to copy-right and trade-mark everything for monopolistic reasons.
4. “Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member .”
LRH was an expert at that. I am heavily working at getting an expert on that myself , but for totally different and opposed reasons : To wake others up.
5. “Memories are manipulated and false memories are created.”
Your past before Scn seems life a past life to most Scientologists. Those past memories become unimportant , or secondary. Memories of alleged whole-track “implants” are forced on you, and you are just expected to “believe” the 2nd god of Scn : The E-meter. If it “read” , then it must be true, one is indoctrinated to believe, as one is still too “humanoid” to have the “whole-track recall that LRH “had”. Therefore, total trust in LRH is your only stable data to decide that those “memories” are true. Authoritarianism to its maximum expression.
6. “Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts.”
What Mike well covered in his masterfully written post. Thinking against LRH or Scn is so heavily indoctrinated, that any Scientologist catching himself thinking any critical thoughts along this line, immediately feels guilty and apologetic all on his own. The PERFECT thought-stopping strategy : Idolize anything ; then having “critical” thoughts about that idol , makes one react and “adapt” again out of remorse and self-invalidation.
7. “Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism.”
This is a classic manifestation of the fundamentalist Scientologist. “The critics of Scn are always wrong and just SPs” , “Attack the critics and the dissenters” , “To hell with the press” , “Scn is perfection in itself” , etc, etc.
8. “Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed.”
That would be blasphemy in itself ; to question LRH’s Tech, Ethics, or Admin. LRH is never, ever wrong. That’s the first lesson a Scientologist learn : To never question LRH.
9. “Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful.”
Each and every philosophy before Scn was either unworkable, booby-trapped or a fraud, according to dear leader (which IS LRH). Scientists are just a bunch of morons.
EMOTIONAL CONTROL
1. “Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish.”
From 2.0 down is “entheta” , debased and immoral. That’s being “Downtone”. Wanting to go out and enjoy, wanting to extrovert doing sports or watching T.V. , is sort of being “Mesty” (too fixated on material and “human” needs) and “other-intentioned”.
2. ” Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt.”
“Get your god-damned TRs in, and stop being a pussy”. “That is only your case , get your TR 0 in, god damn it”. “You are just PTS to your family”. “You are obsessive with wanting to be with them because you have overts on them, so your ‘love’ is only propitiation”.
3. “Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault.”
Of course that is always one’s fault, a thetan is always cause, you moron. How on hell can a causative agent be anything but cause? I mean, it is only logical, what is wrong with these Wogs , God damn it?
The concept of “You pulled it in” comes to mind. One always did something to deserve it.
4. “Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as a. Identity guilt b. You are not living up to your potential c. Your family is deficient d. Your past is suspect e. Your affiliations are unwise f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish g. Social guilt h. Historical guilt.”
W/out the above, which is the concept of “Ruin” , there is no Bridge and no money coming in. So there MUST be something terrible wrong with us. We are only unworthy homo sapiens that better deserve our Freedom by going up the “Bridge to Nowhere”. We are incomplete and deficient, according to Scn. W/out that indoctrination, the Church would have gone broke a long time ago.
5. “Instill fear, such as fear of: a. Thinking independently b. The outside world c. Enemies d. Losing one’s salvation e. Leaving or being shunned by the group f. Other’s disapproval.”
“If I don’t behave, I will be declared ‘SP’, and I will lose my ‘eternity’ “. “W/out the Bridge, I better be dead”. “If I criticize LRH or Scn, I am guilty of crimes against humanity, and I will be forever stuck to a theta-pole”. “I can’t make it in the wog world”. “The outside world is too enturbulative”.
I remember going out to light up the Christmas tree near the LRH Exhibition at Hollywood, and noticing the horrorized look of my SO friends when being surrounded by so many wogs!!!
6. “Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner.”
Reminds me of Rinder and Rathbun. :-))) They were heroes, then suddenly criminals.
7. “Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins.”
Sec Checking the hell out of you so you learn how to BE a “productive, on-purpose, ethical” Scientologist.
8. “Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc. c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family.”
Do I really need to explains this last one ? I don’t think so. But one of the WORST fears of fundamentalist Scientologists is to be all alone in the aberrated “out-side world” of the Wogs. Gee, just saying it give me the creeps.
So there you have it, fellows, Scientology in so many words.
TC
Nice work, ThetaClear.
Such dedication to informing others, ThetaClear. I always look forward to your posts.
WOW!!! Such clarity…. I am impressed and that takes some doing!
Hum?
It is probably better to study the utterings of 1000’s of philisophers and seek multiple opinions and ideas all the time from all areas rather than stick to something from a single source.
Funny that Steven Hawkin gets such praise and accolades from his theories and not a single one has ever been physically proven to be fact.
Not that even high IQ types can explain his ideas to the public
Poor LRH, why did he even bother with any of this?
TruthTeller, in the nomenclature of science, a “theory” never gets proved as a fact although it can be disproved. The utility of a theory is that it explains things that would otherwise go unexplained and it does so with consistent reliability. Stephen Hawking has a couple books in which he explains his ideas to the general public: “A Brief History of Time” and “The Universe in a Nutshell”. There’s also a good movie about him, “The Theory of Everything” which does a decent job of explaining some of his more accessible ideas.
That was a good movie. Got nomination for best actor, as i recall.
But, you are quite right about how scientists go about things. One puts up a theory, then it becomes everyone’s job (in the scientific community) to more-or-less shoot it down. If it holds it holds. If it is proven as fact it is no longer a theory but rather a self-evident truth.
Hawking deserves so much praise not only for sharing insights that push the boundaries of the observable, but he also needed to invent a method of communication of those advanced thoughts despite several handicaps that were rapidly progressive despite his youth. He did all that he did while having a brain that was constantly under attack.
Except that we’ve only recently really developed the technology to start testing for the existence of Hawking Radiation and while we’re fairly confident that they do exist, we technically haven’t even proven the existence of black holes to confirm his singularity theorems. Hell by all rights the General Theory of Relativity and the Big Bang Theory aren’t proven as fact either – they just represent the best theories to date that apply to what we know of the universe, which is kind of how theoretical physics works.
But it’s more than a bit disingenuous to suggest that the fact that Hawking’s theories are not proven to be “fact” – a word which unto itself is sketchy to use based on the half-life of facts – means those theories are considered suspect by his peers, or that he may not deserve his accolades.
And you REALLY can’t compare the work of a genuine theoretical physicist to LRH. Hubbard worked in the same way current Creationist scientists do – they cook up a theory based on nothing but conjecture, and then try to find evidence which supports the theory. An actual scientist looks at the data with as much objectivity as possible, tries to find a theory which is explains the data, and then looks for additional evidence to support the theory.
Frankly, there should be fines for using the word science in a field which doesn’t employ the scientific method. And people who do so, should go to that special part of hell, a step below the part reserved for people who talk in movie theaters.
Clevertitania : “Hell by all rights the General Theory of Relativity and the Big Bang Theory aren’t proven as fact either – they just represent the best theories to date that apply to what we know of the universe, which is kind of how theoretical physics works.”
Not the best theories to date , but the “best” theories from science’s “Authorities” ; a totally different thing. If you think that this cult aspect isn’t influencing science as well , then you are a dreamer.
TC
Sorry no, that’s not how it works. A person’s scientific authority doesn’t validate their work, the EVIDENCE and their adherence to the scientific method is what validates their theory. Einstein didn’t come up with the General Theory of Relativity without using the work of existing physicists to build on. And Hoyle may have coined the term Big Bang Theory, but no single scientist developed the theory on his own – it was the result of centuries of data and evaluation by many scholars.
And no one who understands the first thing about theoretical physics, imagines that Stephen Hawking is not a scientific authority – assuming such a thing really existed, which is as specious as using the word “fact” in relation to theoretical physics.
There is no cult aspect in science, when people are actually paying attention to evidence and how that evidence is gathered and verified. Just because the average Joe Blow doesn’t understand cosmology and only knows of Neil deGrasse Tyson from his TV shows and public appearances, doesn’t change the fact that Tyson’s reputation comes from his work and his dedication to empirical evidence and using valid scientific methods. Just because people listen when Brian Cox speaks, doesn’t change that the public and the scientific community developed their trust in him because of the validity of his work and his methods.
I am a dreamer on some subjects, but when it comes to science, I am an empiricist, as everyone should be. And people who somehow imagine that the reputation of a man like Stephen Hawking, is based on cult-mentality or a false perception that he’s a legitimate researcher, are the ones dreaming.
“There is no compelling Astrological evidence that Science is anything more than a modern superstition.” Stephen James – Astral Engineer – I guess everything is perspective!
And, actually, General Relativity has been proven any number of times by experimental and observational data.
Technically – scientifically – the Theory has been supported, verified, is thus far unchallenged, etc. But there are still elements of the theory which are not yet reconciled with quantum mechanics, and therefore are subject to adjustment as new data is received. Even General Relativity’s predictions of gravitational waves in space have only been observed indirectly, therefore is again supported, but not “proven.”
But my point is that the theory is not something one would call a “fact” – because that’s not how theoretical physics works. The OP’s argument that Hawking’s theories being unproven as facts, means his reputation isn’t necessarily earned, is bunk. Because complex physics theories are almost never referred to as facts – they are theories which are currently supported by all data, both observational and experimental.
If General Relativity were a “fact,” there wouldn’t have been that moment of shock and uncertainty when OPERA thought they’d found neutrinos moving faster than light, because we would’ve dismissed their findings immediately instead of doing additional verification to find out their results were incorrect.
While scn is the talking point, it always surprises and pleases me that I learn many other things on scn blogs.
I hated science in school, but as an adult I’ve become deeply fascinated with many branches, in particular psychology, astrophysics/astronomy, neurology/neuro-chemistry, cosmology, particle physics and quantum mechanics. It all started when I read Leon Lederman’s The God Particle back in the mid-90s. I recommend it to anyone who’s struggled with an interest in complex science but a lack of aptitude.
Ooh yeah, the God Particle too. Fascinating. If one understood the God Particle and could manipulate it, wouldn’t that make manifesting easier…
Would love to talk with you about this too. Ask Mike for my email, if you’d like to also.
The cult aspect strengthens the scientific approach, naturally, as one rejects relative comparison and the other thrives by it.
Truth-teller : “It is probably better to study the utterings of 1000’s of philisophers and seek multiple opinions and ideas all the time from all areas rather than stick to something from a single source.”
Yes , it IS better to do just that. That is how it has always been done by real scholars instead of by authoritarian cult leaders. Sticking to one single source is suicidal indeed.
TC
I think people can get benefits from all sorts of things from Buddhism to gardening. That being said, the key word here is ‘fundamentalist’.
Fundamentalist scientogists would never question Ron’s motives or ability to apply (or not) his tech to himself. And from the horror stories that have come to light,
I do think that if you were going to attempt to apply it to him or Miscaviage, better have alternate employment lined up in advance cause your gonna need it and quick.
“In the presence of SPs, one makes mistakes.”
Well, that explains that.
Odd how this doesn’t make “one” question how good whatever the “tech” is, but more likely causes “one” to lash out at those nasty SPs.
Putting it differently, in make-believe land everything can be fixed by this chimerical blob that is the “tech.” Reality, that which does not go away when you stop believing in it(1), may be more complicated, but I hope it’s a good deal more reliable.
(1) Thanks to P K Dick – now, there was a science fiction writer 🙂
Well said Mike.
P.S. In addition, the current culture fosters ignorance. the opposite of knowing. “Don’t read the Internet”, “Don’t read books”. “Don’t read statements by formers.” “Don’t touch”. “Don’t Love”. “Don’t care.” “Don’t know”. “Don’t look.” “Don’t see.”
+100
I know quite a few scientologist , most of them very wealthy that don’t bother sending their children to a “normal ” school but rather one ran by applied scholastics and instead of a college education they have then work full time as staff at the local org .
For me a big part of accepting LRH as source was just intellectual laziness. Why bother studying a whole bunch of books if he had already done that and synthesized everything? Naive to be sure, but someone once said “Most of us were intellectual adolescents when we entered scio, having little background in science, religion or philosophy.”
The paramilitary nature of scio did not exist in the 1970’s so I could glib my way past any disagreements just to “get on with it”. I suppose this was just self-indoctrination.
See what intellectual trust will do for you. Constant alertness I suppose is one answer. Lot easier to be lazy, that is true. Good post Richard
I Yawnalot, Thank you for the acknowledgement, I guess? Defeating my self-importance (ego) is an ongoing process. I still slurp up admiration. smiling
“Admiring, admiring, admiring” Thought I’d give you a little more to slurp up, Richard D. 🙂
LOL!
🙂
When you are not thinking, someone is doing it in your place.
Most if not every time, it is not in your best interest.
someone may have said this already, but if the answers to every question anyone might have about life are in the Basics, why does anyone have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for all that other shit they make one do?
Great post Mike. Of course many religions maintain that they have the definitive (and God given) answers to everything. Note that the most popular preacher in the USA, Joel Osteen opens every service with his little saying that the Bible holds the answers to all of life and is the only source one needs.
I happen to think there is a tremendous amount of wisdom and truth in LRH’s work, but that the aberrative (to use one of Ron’s words) idea is that ALL of Scientology is completely true and never to be questioned as to its truth (and one learns that VERY quickly in Scientology).
One thing I think happens is this: On some level, probably hidden consciously from oneself, each Scientologist who stays in “for the duration” understands at some point, at some level, that he or she has given up all self determined thought, all self determined “right” to postulate, to have viewpoints, to have opinions, FOR ONESELF. And certainly the right to disagree. AND has given up all control of one’s life on every dynamic to the CoS, including even the right to decide when to continue to communicate to family and long time friends.
At this point, I think the being goes into hiding completely …. FROM ONESELF. That’s how bad it must be to realize the above on some level. One cannot even bear to be by or with themselves anymore or trust themselves anymore.
So how to live now? (especially in the CoS). Set up countless circuits with the answers to every part of life, that one can now play back over and over AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR SELF DETERMINED THOUGHT AND ACTION (and this includes those unbelievably stupendous “cognitions” one now reads all the time, they are not FROM the being).
This is how low Scientologists are as beings and why it is so difficult to “reason with them.” There is no one there to reason with.
Superb comment, Joe P. You nailed it.
Reading stuff like this, it’s too hard to take seriously. It sounds more like someone in the PR department made this “success” up and based their stats on how many times they could mention the Basics.
Mike,
Excellent, excellent presentation. Re-edited to be clearer for the never-ins just now discovering Scientology, this would give them the minimum but MOST CRITICAL information they’ll need to veer off of the cult’s glistering jewels of secret knowledge and to warn their friends off as well. You write very clearly and I suspect you’re a natural writer.
Oh! I wish you had time enough to write a book and add a significant oeuvre to the antiscientology canon! And I think I’m not the only one.
A great post, Mike. I remember the wonder I felt when I read in Vol 4 that vases containing flowers had to be washed every day and new water put in them again. I marvelled how this busy man could find time in the midst of his research for even this!
Of course, he wasn’t researching!
RESEARCH AND DISCOVERY 🙂
I am requesting copies of
letters anyone might have received from Miscavige go to attack dog Lawyer Gary Soter.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?32078-New-*ELITE*-CLUB-exclusive-to-100-members-only-DONKEYS-of-the-*Church*
Many of these are threat letters are hot air. Some are to do with other issues that disconnection, refund
and general Scientology issues.
This is a timeless request that goes into the future, for future letters.
Please send copies of these letters to
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Agreed.
Maybe a true Miscavidgeovite might fit that description Mike, but there is this;
“SOP 5 LONG FORM STEP V – ADDITIONAL TECHNIQUES
A lecture given on 23 January 1953
“All these lectures have two factors. One is my opinion and the other’s the technique. Don’t confuse the two. I’ve given you just then an opinion.
Uh . . you needn’t even vaguely confuse me or my personality with Scientology. It doesn’t work because I say it’s so. It works because it works. ”
I really enjoy LRHs view on things, they quite often are unique and thought provoking, but that’s me. The basic questions of what happens after we die are still valid, we all will die at some point. LRH did a good job of explaining that, and demonstrating the theta universe to me.
But you are absolutely correct, the fundamentalist is a religion wrecker, its been the same for every religion, and we are seeing history in the making with it happening to Scientology.
By the way, whats Rons recipe for a good steak, mine always tend to be a bit tough!
I have to comment on your last line — it is a microcosm of the very problem I was pointing out which you were dutifully trying to explain was not really true (with an LRH quote).
Your steaks are a bit tough and you hear ‘Ron” has a recipe and think it must be better than yours because it came from “Ron.”
How ironic.
Or to put it another way; without LRH providing empirical evidence that it does work, “It doesn’t work because I say it’s so.” and “It works because it works,” are the exact same thing.
Speaking for myself I do have a technique for making cheeseburgers but it’s based on my own experience and because of this you may not like my style of cheeseburger. Given this what one should do is to experiment and develop your own technique. Or you could go to Fuddrucker’s.
Touche. Read The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan.
How do you know that what Hubbard says about what happens after we die is true. Because he said it? Because of his “research”?
Read this book and see. I dare you.
Another good one to read is Lifetides by Lyall Watson. You might rethink things after reading these books.
Please don’t let that idea put you off reading them. It is does, you may still have something of the fundamentalist in you.
… If it does…. is what I meant.
It was clear pretty quickly that Hubbard was not good at the whole science, peer review, double blind, account for observation bias etc. Innocently, I thought at first that he was just not good at that aspect and that eventually someone like me would be in charge of getting his stuff peer reviewed correctly. Unfortunately, the reality was that he was avoiding peer review because he knew that he couldn’t deliver on what he promised and a peer is not under his control. Thus, he opted to keep a hypnotic command over his marks instead.
Anytime the rubber meets the road with Hubbard, the end product falls far short of the mark. His non-Scientological writing isn’t at all the work of “a titan of the Golden Age of Pulp Literature”, it’s mostly standard action/adventure material, with two, count ’em two, Van Voght wannabees. His photography, once you get to see some, isn’t anything to write home about, either. His recipes in the Adventurer’s Club cookbook are unremarkable: pit roasted whole bushmeat, with no seasonings or evidence of being able to actually cook. (Listen, even I could cook your flesh or fowl of choice, given fire and enough rocks. It’s not that hard.) And as for music….listen to the Apollo All-Stars sometime! If you dare…
His whole SOP was to a) make exaggerated claims that he could do X, b) produce little evidence of actually having done so, despite his stories, c) under duress, provide substandard work that he would proceed to defend by attacking everyone else’s work in the same field. (“Of course I can design women’s clothing. Sorry, I had to leave all my drawings with the design house. My drawings are so much better than Y’s, and Z’s. They’re probably queers that don’t understand what women actually like…”)
Well put, Mike!
An excellent companion piece to today’s subject are the Miscavige videos posted in today’s “Underground Bunker.” In these videos, Miscavige explains once and for all the elaborate conspiracy that the “church” faced when a conspiracy of the heartless and ill-intentioned (SMERSH, no doubt) conspired to hold the “church” accountable for the death of one Lisa McPherson.
Needless to say, nothing was able to stop the relentless advancement of the planet’s “clearing.” After all, who wouldn’t want to be “clear,” just like Lisa was (according to Miscavige’s own pronouncement over her). Not the psychs, the pharma corporations, the City of Clearwater, the SP Times or the German government.
As ridiculous as the Miscavige Show is, two things stand out as heart-breaking. For one thing, in about 15 minutes, Miscavige can’t bring himself even once to utter the name of the “parishioner” who had lost her life at the hands of “the tech” application she was forced to endure. How quick the “church” is to disassociate itself from its beloved members once the money flow abates (Cat White comes to mind as another recent example).
Perhaps even more disturbing is the audience reaction. No matter how tight the tinfoil hat gets and how multi-layered the conspiracy theory becomes, they are eating it up. They clap, they have their “Amens” at the ready, they celebrate. They don’t have a care in the world. “Tragedy? What tragedy?”
This is an audience largely made up of intelligent, affluent people. People who can hear/read a story and comprehend it intelligently (meaning: asking “the right questions.”) More than a few of these are people of good will who would be devastated to see their daughter or sister (or even a member of their community unknown to them) perish in utter degradation. And yet, here they are celebrating that the “church” dodged a bullet and its leadership will be spared from being held accountable.
Worse than “thought stopping,” they conspire in having their own humanity taken from them!
Yes, I was sickened by those videos too. They have no idea what they are actually applauding, but miscavige does, every word and concept of it. What an evil asshole he is – to glorify himself and bathe in the legacy of someone else who is long dead while standing on the fresh grave of one of his personal victims… all the while inciting and getting acceptance from his peers for his actions, he’s one hell of an evil wordsmith. Their nightmare is yet to materialise, but it will… oh how it will.
Yes, Todd Cray, but did these people know about Lisa McPherson? Did they truly know what he was talking about? If you were an In, you didn’t. I didn’t know how Lisa was. I didn’t even know about her death and the circumstances when I left the cherch. I found out months later when I started reading Tony’s blog. I don’t believe anyone at that event bar one or two sea org members knew anything about it. The public just thought another untoward conspiracy of the SPs had been thwarted. And good work for that!
I get silly every time I watch the promo videos about Flag. The testimonials, the music, the graphics are all so over-the-top. “That’s when I knew I was at cause – cause over life!” (big toothy smile). “No more out points for me! Outpoints vanish at my mere presence!” The voice-over is so game show bizarre. I recommend them to friends all the time. It’s so Saturday Night Live/Python-esque.
COP is following the marketing & PR Series. Maybe Jefferson Hawkins can confirm.
It goes something like this from memory. Look around and find something to sell, make up promo pieces, let everybody know, make a big deal about, then put on a really good show.
While doing the above, find another one, and repeat over and over. This was done with New Pro TR’s, KTL, GAT1, GAT2, student hat, survival rundown, etc etc. (I probably missed a few in there)
What the members don’t realize is the above since most have never read the Marketing & PR Series. And if they did, they probably think the above is being done to raw public. LOL
Targets? Well — since I was a consultant in companies, using stats to describe what could be bettered, I wrote more than once to LRH to explain what was wrong in his comppany. Guess what? “HE” answered and signed that I had misus! Well, HE had a lot of those regarding anything except lying to make more money and getting others making more money. How come he started again to write bad sci-fi, as when he was getting a cent a word?
“Guess what? “HE” answered and signed that I had misus!”
Of course. How dare you question ‘Source’?
If you question or don’t agree with what Hubbard (or Command Intention) said/says, it is always because of one or more of these reasons: You don’t get it because you are “not quite so bright” (with a self-important button), you have MUs, false data, O/Ws, out-ethics, evil purposes, the bank (reactive mind), BTs … are PTS, SP, DB. He created so many labels to keep everyone in line – or else. For “or else” he created his ‘ethics’ and ‘justice’ system with disconnection and fair game.
The “nothing is true if it is not true for you” was/is used to lull you into a false sense of security till you are hooked on the kool-aid; it is part of the scam.
I hope no one takes offense at this, but I just noted something kind of funny about certain ex-Scientologists. It’s probably already an observation that’s been made – but I only recently read specifically about Mike’s escape, and between that, reading Troublemaker, and the comments on this and Tony’s blogs, it suddenly clicked.
You finally blow, when your ego about being a Scientologist has gone so far, that you are convinced you understand Scientology better than your ‘superiors’ – all the way up to Miscavige and LRH. Which means that basically, by trying to convince you that Scientology makes you smarter than everyone else, they are actually pushing you out of it, only in tiny increments.
I think that’s even how Beghe started, though he took so many years to get out, that he’d started to process his post-CoS feelings before he was fully out. But I just find it amusing (not in a condescending way, I do know what it takes to get out), that it’s the ego that is the first bubble to burst in the process. And it’s also ironically fitting, “Screw you, I KNOW Scientology because I KNOW it, and you people are just doing it wrong! I’m not an SP, YOU’RE AN SP!”
This might only apply to the really strong personality types, but it’s definitely a consistency I’ve noted – including the notion that you’ll continue being an ‘independent’ Scientologist outside of the CoS, after leaving it behind. Of course that never really lasts. Eventually you get out enough, to realize that it’s all balderdash and hocum. But you first have to be deprogrammed from the church, and then you get enough common sense back to deprogram yourself from the religion.
Not calling anyone an egomaniac – if you really were one you’d stay in the church and go to the top of the ranks, because you’d enjoy the power that came from peddling something you didn’t really believe in. Plus, the amount of abuse they inflict on you when you try to leave, is enough to crush a fragile ego. It’s probably why more people haven’t left – not enough ego.
And your penny a word comment also put in mind a new experiment to try, for getting people to blow – park a vehicle outside the Celebrity Center and play the Dianetics part of the Harlan Ellison interview with Robin Williams, over the speaker, on a loop. 🙂
Clevertitania, were you ever in?
It wasn’t my ego that lead me to the door, it was being told I had to redo everything. I said, No thanks, and walked. It was this reason many did.
I had been looking at the cost of going further and that if I started on the OT levels it would be never ending. I had been looking ahead in my life and knew I’d never reduce my debt or accumulate anything financial stability unless I started drawing the line somewhere. Being told to redo everything all over again was all I needed to spurt me out the door.
You’re right in this, at least with regards myself: I left the cherch, then I found out about Hubbard and then I left $cn per se. I got rid of everything pertaining to $cn as I became more educated about it as a cult and mind controlling machine. I believe this is true for many people.
I’ve lost the train of the “ego” thing you were talking about but my observation is that one day one is pushed just too often and too far. I don’t think it is so much an ego thing as self preservation. And hurt, from so much discovery. It takes a while to get moving out because one finds it hard to realise that what one is observing and that your new realisations are in fact true.
Don’t forget, many have been in for a long, long time, faithful and loyal to what they believed was good. It is a massive betrayal. It is a massive step to get out.
No Dawn, I was not in. I got involved in following what Scientology was doing back in ’08, when I saw the first Beghe interview. I watched it through three times. mesmerized and emotionally overwrought. As Jason described the behavior of the CoS, particularly whenever he questioned their actions, I came to understand the abuses in my own three year relationship with a (alcoholic, serial cheating, bi-polar) clinical narcissist – and I became fascinated with cult mentalities, how emotional and mental abuse works, and the manipulative techniques employed by narcissists like Miscavige, LRH, my ex, etc.. Having been 17 years old when I met the man in question – and then spending 16 years after we split up, raising our son, while he screamed at me over phone calls and dragged me into court every time I refused to do things his way, until one day my son decided he’d had enough and cut off contact – I’d struggled for years to understand not just why he’d done the things he had done to me, but why I had stayed and endured it for so long. I started studying Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and other psychological disorders that manifest in manipulation and abuse.
I found that studying the behavior of cult leaders and other professional manipulators, I finally began to understand the tricks, the lies, the ways they twist things to convince you that their abuse comes with the best of intentions, how even their affection and approbation becomes a tool to hurt and control you. Since then I’ve continued to study these groups, like the CoS, the NLP and Pyramid Scam purveyors, the Pickup Artists Community, etc – basically anyone who has found a way to turn psychological abuse into a profession.
For me I was lucky – I was dumped, and therefore didn’t have to fight to regain my common sense while he was directly controlling me. But 20 years with that man wedged into my life, reinforcing his abuses in every way he still could (after I started just hanging up on him), has taught me a lot about how these people function, and encouraged me to participate in any way I can, in exposing them for what they really are.
Obviously no one story of leaving CoS is going to be the same, I just noted some significant similarities between several stories I’d recently heard. Obviously Leah and Jason’s stories also touched on the idea of having to pay for courses that were made irrelevant later – I imagine money is the most consistent part of any escapees’ stories. But I noticed with some of the people for whom money is less concerning – like working actors and high-ranking CoS staff – their impetus began with the idea that Scientology wasn’t the problem, the Church was just doing it all wrong – very much evidenced in Leah’s story about reporting everyone after the wedding – only for them to later realize it’s not JUST the church that is the problem.
I won’t claim to know what it’s like to leave the CoS or any cult – having been an agnostic young and an atheist not long after that, I wasn’t a good target for that kind of manipulation – but I do know what it’s like to be in such a destructive and abusive situation, and to be forced to continue taking that abuse even after you’ve walked away. It’s nothing anyone should have to endure.
you should listen to Chris Shelton and Ruth (i forget her last name) ‘s podcast interview w Rachel Bernstein – it’s the Sensibly Speaking podcast and Ms Bernstein is a psychologist who studies and works with people coming out of cults as well as a marriage and family counselor. her interview was very interesting to me, bc I too was in an abusive relationship and she likens being in that situation to being in a cult of 2. there are a lot of similarities, actually. I’m sorry you were in that situation, I became pregnant with my abusive ex and that was the turning point for me… I ended the pregnancy rather than put a child (and myself, but mostly our child) through a life of misery and despair with a parent I knew to be a narcissist and physically abusive. And, while I haven’t regretted that decision too much, it definitely colored the rest of my life in moving forward, and is likely one of the reasons I am so interested in the topic of control, domination and abuse.
Thanks for the recommendation. I’m checking that interview out right now. While it’s not exactly the same, the similarities between an abusive relationship of that nature, and being in a cult, are undeniable. The way they break you down, wrapping up your entire identity in them so you begin to feel leaving them is impossible – or how their every mistake is somehow your fault – are just scratching the surface of the similarities.
Unfortunately that kind of narcissism is also an inherited neurological trait, which my son has struggled with himself. But, while his father was NOT a great influence on his life, seeing the ways his father manipulates and uses people, has helped my son see how not to behave, and helped him understand his own challenges. It’s been difficult, raising a child to believe in himself – that kind of narcissism is bred from massive insecurity – while still instilling humility and empathy for others, but we’ve managed.
My ex and I were done well before I had the baby, and my mother did encourage me not to continue the pregnancy, for similar reasons – aside from the fact that I was also just 19 years old. But having seen her raise kids alone (my father died of Leukemia when I was 6 and she was 25), I knew I could handle being a single parent. Plus I had a skin cancer scare when I was 18, in a place where – if it had been a malignant – even if it didn’t kill me, it was guaranteed to ravage my reproductive system. Fortunately it turned out to be a false alarm, but after a week of waiting for test results and living with the fear of both death and a full hysterectomy, when I got pregnant barely a year later, no way in hell was I not having that baby and raising him. But I’ll tell you, when 15 years later my sister (who also had begun to think she was sterile) ended up pregnant by a guy who had his own problems, and wanted absolutely nothing to do with the baby, we were doing cartwheels. Everyone criticized her for not forcing his involvement, but after what we’d gone through with my son’s father, we knew better than most people, that not every person capable of procreation has any business parenting.
I have the same reaction when I see people in the situation I was in – I wish it didn’t have to happen to any of us, but at least it makes us stronger, and more conscious of what a con-artist can do to us when we’re not careful to stand up for ourselves. And sure, it can make you a bit jaded, but it’s the price you pay for being conscientious. Hence why I’ve been writing a pseudo-self help book (in the way that America: The Book is a pseudo-text book), called “The Way Into a Stubborn Bitch’s Heart.” 🙂
people in those situations either come out stronger, or are destined to repeat the cycle over and over. everyone has their baggage, everyone is a product of their environments – but they can change if one learns from mistakes and pain and finds their inner strength to trust themselves. one of the things that I love about the people who have come out the other side of cults/destructive relationships of any kind (or at least the ones here and on other blogs like Tony Ortega’s) is that they are no longer afraid. just as I felt after I came out of that relationship, it was kind of “the worst has happened, I’ve been humiliated and abused and isolated and could have died, and I made it out. there’s nothing more to fear other than letting myself get back into a situation like that, and now I know how to recognize it,so, not doing that again!”
and while I’ve certainly made other bad decisions, and fucked up my life in other ways for a while, I never have. now, I have my kid with a good man and we’re all just working on being decent human beings and raising a decent human being. and that’s all we can do.
Actually there is one other fear I have, and it’s one that’s plagued me (and my ability to form new relationships) for years – that the abused will become the abuser. I am not naturally distrustful as a result of my experiences, but I am naturally distrustful of men who claim to have romantic inclinations towards me, and I worry that if I did meet a good guy, I’d end up hurting him with my distrust and fears. Plus, I have a very strong personality myself, which is why I don’t date men who are in any way push-overs, because I know how easy it would be for me to manipulate others, in the guise of self-protection.
But in fairness, I am neurologically prone to anxiety and have become a big-time self-psychoanalyzer, so I have a hard time letting go of my past and I’m naturally built to be fearful of such things. Just one more anomaly that’s made my life interesting, or frustrating, depending on how you look at it. 🙂
You’re talking about your personality “program” as though it were you, yet you are obviously looking at it objectively from a distance.
Which one is the real you? The problematic personality or the one who is looking at it from a distance? The distant observer seems to know the score.
Roger – what makes you assume I can’t be both? While I know my mind is more complex and convoluted than some people’s – thanks to multiple neurological anomalies – I’m hardly the only person in the world capable of being introspective about my own potential for mistakes, while being emotionally grounded by awareness of the mistakes I’ve already made.
Like I said, self-analyzing is a big part of how I’ve survived not just the one-to-one cult relationship (thanks again to Sashie for turning me on the the Bernstein interview, offered some nice context and new terminology), but other traumatic events in my life. My therapist – when Medicaid will pay for her services – finds it both amusing and challenging to deal with someone who spends nearly as much time studying behavioral psychology as she does.
But as I’ve said many times in my past – only one of my personalities is nuts. 🙂
I’m not assuming anything, there is only one you- the knowing agent. Thoughts and feelings are inert objects appearing before the knower. Pay them little mind.
Yeah, that’s one major thing wrong with most pseudo-philosophical hokum you hear these day – the idea that your feelings are something to let go of, rather than something to embrace and understand, and the idea that there’s only way to be, or only one version of yourself.
Sorry if this offends anyone, but it’s all a lot of bullshit. I am so MANY more than one me. There are literally dozens of me. There’s the me that’s an overwhelmed mom. There’s the me that’s a daughter frustrated with an increasingly forgetful mother. There’s the me, that’s been a fiction writer since the age of four, because storytelling has been in my heart since I learned to read. There’s the me that’s been a politically minded editorialist since I was seven, and realized I didn’t like the way some people are treated in our world. There’s the me that was a victim of a one-to-one cult, and more than a few other emotionally abusive relationships. There’s the me that learned never to be a victim again, but has struggled to make new friends out of that need for caution. There’s me the IT professional that past colleagues haven’t even known could write, and there’s me the artist, who some readers of can’t conceptualize me in a cubicle. The many different parts of my consciousness don’t need to exist separately, to be individually important and valid. And yes, on occasion the different mes have to find a compromise that satisfies as much of them as possible, or one hell of a fight breaks out in my head.
And another tongue-in-cheek self-help book I’ve been working on, is called Emotional Logic. It’s primarily about this ridiculous notion that to be a logical and rational person, one must learn to ignore emotion – which is insane, because emotion is as much a part of who we are, as our lungs or kidneys. Ignoring emotion is just a great way to ignore what you really want, ignore what the situation you’re in is doing to you mentally, and to bottle up feelings until they explode. The real way to being a rational human being, is to understand your emotions, account for them, anticipate them, allow for what you need emotionally in your rational weighing or pros and cons. If you’re going to have a panic attack speaking in public, you don’t just buckle down and ignore it, pretending you can avoid that panic by sheer will – something many people simply cannot do – but to start in safer spaces and smaller groups, working your way up carefully to the more challenging larger groups. You don’t ignore the emotion, you learn to work through it, work around it or work with it.
Emotions are the core of human psychology and the human experience. They are literally the opposite of inert – they are the impetus for most decisions and choices anyone will make in their life. Emotions are the driving force of human society. To pretend they can just be put aside or ignored, is to pretend that Vulcans are real.
“Emotions are the core of human psychology and the human experience. They are literally the opposite of inert – they are the …driving force of human society”
Emotions, driving force though they be, are not conscious nor are thoughts. That makes them inert. You, the knower of them are conscious. You are aware of them but they aren’t aware of you. I must go now as I’m abusing this blog.
Definitely an off-topic, but I would suggest you look up the definition of inert, along with reading a little bit about the neuro-chemical processes which cause emotions. Because you’re assertions aren’t just philosophically questionable, they are factually inaccurate.
I presume you’re talking to me. My definition of “inert” is per vedic scripture. It’s ancient usage is in reference to consciousness and reality not the physical laws. The purpose of the word is to discriminate between the conscious subject (you) and objects of perception commonly mistaken to be you, particularly thoughts and emotions. The purpose of this discrimination is self-realization which has the lovely perk of permanent happiness and peace for the reason that the intrinsic nature of consciousness is bliss. It has an actual utility in other words.
Vedic Scripture, at its most recent incarnations, dates to around 1000 CE. The word inert doesn’t show up in the French (and later English) language until the 15th and 16th centuries. So there IS no definition of inert per vedic scripture. The word you’re likely referring to is Achit, which primarily means unconscious or insentient – and after thorough searching, I can only find ONE reference that even makes Achit a synonym of inert, and one that makes Achit the world of inert objects, not the word inert itself. So that would make it YOUR definition of the word, not a Sanskrit or Vedic definition.
And so we’ve come back to topic, because you redefining Inert based on some ancient philosophical notion, is akin to Scientology altering the definitions of words like Technology or Communication to suit their religious language. The word inert has a meaning already, to those who speak English, French, Latin, etc. – without force, without will to respond, weak, inactive, without inertia. While it can be used figuratively or metaphorically, its actual definition has absolutely nothing to do with consciousness or perception of reality. Inert is a word of science, and you can’t engage people in a genuine and honest conversation, by using a definition that is not remotely in common usage. Hell it’s not even common in fringe usage.
It has as much validity as claiming that self-realization will create bliss – physically impossible based on the neurology of many human beings – or that emotions and thoughts are not part of consciousness – which is again completely bass ackwards from reality. Your consciousness is not separate from your emotions and thoughts – if anything that is the very definition of a person’s consciousness – their collective thoughts and feelings. Without thoughts and feelings, there is no such thing as consciousness. Unless you’re trying to claim “consciousness” is a synonym of “soul” – which is also contentious since we have ample evidence that human consciousness exists and zero evidence that a soul exists.
It sounds like you’re trying to ascribe scientific terminology which is based in physical laws, to philosophical concepts which are unproven and incapable of being subjected to the scientific method of verification. There’s nothing to say you can’t use terms in that way, but it is irrational to expect anyone else to understand your altered definition which has no ties to the actual etymology of a word. And given that I’m an atheist, a secularist and a student of science – speaking in a forum that is all about holding a religious group accountable for actions like trying to redefine language to reinforce exclusionary practices – you cannot rationally expect to sway my views of the world and the functions of my brain, to some metaphysical jargon that has no basis in empirical evidence.
You might as well try and convince me, that I have Jesus to thank for what recovery I have made from past traumas.
Serriously ?
And I thought that you wasn’t a Scientlologists ; you certainly sound like one ; arrogance and everything !!!
It should have read, “Seriously ? And I thought that you wasn’t a Scientologist ; you certainly sound like one, arrogance and everything !!! ”
I wanted to correct my grammar horrors ; I didn’t want to risk being “corrected in my personality” like you attempted to do with
dear Roger! :-)))
Hey Roger , I don’t even know why did you waste your time in the first time, my friend ! Didn’t you see the similarity ? :-)))
Thank you Peter! If I waste my time then I consider it has been put to good use for where I stand, there is nothing at stake and time is for wasting! 🙂
Clever, please insert the word, “achit” where I have used “inert” if it makes you happy. “Inert” is commonly used as a concession to Western students in order to minimize the use to Sanskrit. It accomplishes the necessary task of bringing the student to self-knowledge and you just can’t argue with results! 🙂 Otherwise your comment is a litany of the basic misunderstandings which I can clear up in a jiffy if you want to email me at roger.hornaday@gmail.com 🙂
Wow, clevertitania. That was quite an answer. I can see that you have taken the time to study these things.
Have you ever read The Emerald Tablets of Thoth?
Very interesting. Having read them, I wonder if this is some of what Ron was studying to get to the idea of people being thrown in a mountain, etc., etc.
I never thought that that concept was so “woo woo” because the ancients have been talking about aliens and other such things for eons.
Your thoughts?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Tablet
http://www.crystalinks.com/emerald.html
Once again I remark on the fact that there are many things to learn on scio blogs. Good points all on the above “debate”.
Clevertitania, regarding your “Stubborn Bitch’s” book – my mother had a sweatshirt which read “I am not a Bitch, I’m THE Bitch. And to you I’m MISS Bitch” That might be a good line to include somewhere in your book?
Roger – when I was about 18, I was tricked into attending a performance of Heaven’s Gates and Hell’s Flames, by my ex’s father and step-mother. If I had been a few years older, and more aware of the ways even mainstream religions will use manipulation and fear-mongering to maintain adherence to the bible, I would’ve stood up in the middle of that performance and castigated every person I saw, for subjecting the children in that room, to that horrific play. But when the play ended, and his step-mother asked if I wanted to go forward and have my name entered in the “Book of Life,” I gave her a look that would’ve set her ass on fire, if such supernatural versions of fire existed.
What on earth makes you think I would voluntarily subject myself to a one-on-one conversation with someone who displays the same arrogance and self-reinforcing delusion – that I would engage in a conversation that is clearly for the purposes of “converting” me to your beliefs, that you confuse for facts? You might as well be a carnie barking at me to try your dart balloon game, when I know as well as anyone that the game is rigged with under-inflated balloons.
You claim that the use of the term inert is “in deference to Western students,” when I only found one single use of the word in the context you describe, and when you are in no way addressing students of said philosophy on this forum. And when I questioned your incorrect definition the first time, you simply acted like I “didn’t get it.” You claim to KNOW that human consciousness is something other than one’s thoughts and feelings, based on an antiquated philosophical idea, which is by its very nature not scientifically verifiable. And you claim to be able to tell me how I should define and qualify myself, based on again your metaphysical ideas which have no basis in fact or science.
Why would you think you have enough credibility in this conversation, at least from my perspective, that I would have any interest in discussing your imaginary definitions of human consciousness? I enjoy learning about the history and mythology of various religions and philosophies – from objective sources who know the difference between belief and facts – it doesn’t mean I allow any Tom, Dick or Roger to try and convert me to some philosophy which claims to understand the structure of human consciousness better than people who study the actual brain which is the basis for that structure? I’ve dedicated (at least part of) my life to challenging EVERY person who claims to have an infallible supernatural understanding of the world that goes beyond what science can at least legitimately theorize about. That would include someone like yourself. I don’t need to listen to any more of your rhetoric to know it is irrelevant to myself and people like me.
If you’re looking for potential converts, you are SO in the wrong place; and if you are trying to convert me, you are SERIOUSLY barking up the wrong tree. So unless you have something to say which doesn’t involve claiming your philosophy to be fact, or making up new definitions for words, I’d say our conversation is over.
Theta Clear – I didn’t think Roger deserved a Seriously?! until he suggested I contact him privately for indoctrination and programming. But I also wouldn’t call it correcting his personality,, just pointing out irrational behavior, like trying to convert a natural-born atheist who has intimate experience dealing with cult-mentalities, to any religious or metaphysical philosophy.
indie8million – I have read some philosophy, but only bits and pieces of various concepts – there are too many to bother going in depth on any of them. The point of my answer above is that I’m a very good researcher. It took moments to figure out that Roger was using the cult-like practice, of redefining words to suit one’s own personal narrative. But having glanced over the ideas, I’m not seeing anything that screams Scientology in the ideas of the Emerald Tablet. But it’s certainly possible, I’m sure LRH borrowed from many other religious and philosophical ideas. Most cult leaders work the same way as people who write books/movies about long-established monsters, like vampires or werewolves. You look at the existing literature and mythology, take what parts you find useful, and find ways to explain away the rest.
Richard – not really appropriate for this book I’m afraid. The point is the people who have survived abusive relationships, because of their thick skin and difficulty trusting people, are often labeled by words like bitch or asshole, when all they are is someone who has very good reasons to put up the walls they erect around themselves. Yes, it’s about embracing the term to some degree, but not in the diva way that slogan is leaning towards.
CleverT. You are bombarding me with a lot of anger and resentment. I never make an assertion I’m not able and eager to prove but you’ve made it clear you will not listen to that proof via personal email. Please note that it is you, not I, who has become emotional and has resorted to insulting language. Also note it is I who invite you to talk and you who decline. That’s because of fear. Don’t bother to deny it, you’re already busted. This is Mike’s blog and though I’d love to counter each and every one of your rude criticisms with knowledge I really have to suck it up and let it go before he tells me to get my own blog. You may not know it but he doesn’t put up with this sort of thing for too long. The invitation to email me stands. roger.hornaday@gmail.com
I did warned you about CleverT , didn’t I , dear Roger ?
There isn’t any difference between CleverT’s ideas and those of the Scientologists. I can perceive you having the best of the intentions ,and your willingness to explore other angles of anything is quite obvious. But there is such a thing as being too well-intentioned. One must learn when to change gears. :-)))
Go on boys. Keep telling yourself that the atheist who uses actual dictionary definitions of words, is the one behaving like Scientologists – not the one whose making up his own definitions of words to suit his metaphysical ideas found in 4,000 year old scripture. See how that one sells on a street corner.
And I feel pretty confident if Mike had a problem with anything (or the volume of what) I’ve said so far, he would’ve asked me to stop replying quite a while ago. But since neither of you can be bothered to use a rational argument other than, “Oh you poor, scared, angry, close-minded thing; you must be willing to put aside everything you’ve learned in 20 years of studying neurology, neuro-chemistry and human psychology, and listen to my magical theories about how the mind exists independently from the functions of the brain,” you can keep spouting YOUR ad hominems at empty air.
Clever, the English word, “inert” is used by Indian vedic scholars as a substitute for the Sanskrit word “achit”. Shake your fist at them instead of me. This is my field of study and I love it and I am able to represent it adequately. Your superior attitude toward it is based on ignorance. For instance if you can discuss with me what is meant by the non-dual nature of reality (whether or not you subscribe to it) without googling then you might appear intelligent. To me you sound like a Christian denouncing Darwinian Theory who can’t even explain what that theory says. Just because we now receive our gossip from the internet instead of from clay tablets doesn’t mean this knowledge originating thousands of years ago is outdated. It has quite a following today.
Consciousness cannot be studied empirically because just as space, it can’t be studied apart from the objects appearing in it. There isn’t anything to see. The difference between space and consciousness however is that consciousness is self-aware. It knows that it is. It is the experiencing agent that is, like space, independent of and unaffected by the objects appearing in it. Thoughts, feelings and perceptions are the objects appearing in consciousness, the experiencing agent which is you. It is your direct experience that you are the unaffected, ever-present, non-changing witness of thoughts, feelings and perceptions. You are not the things appearing in you. Your intrinsic nature is “ananda”. That is a sanskrit wording meaning “bliss”. If you say that isn’t your experience then you are being distracted by the thought objects appearing in you. There’s a cure for that ornery distraction. It’s called “self-knowledge”.
I remind you that denunciations don’t constitute a valid argument. If you want to play with the big boys you have to act like one of them.
Yes.
There is a lot of truth to the adage that says we are creatures of habit.
We have this nasty habit, all of us, to just run on auto-pilot.
Once we have decided in our own heads that we have something figured out,
well, of course we don’t have to think about it anymore… And so we don’t. We “know” Joe is bad, that eggs have too much cholesterol, that Jesus saves, or whatever, and once that reality is established new data is sorted out to support our belief, or rejected when it doesn’t fit in with our preconceived understandings. All this goes on without really thinking…
Scientology deftly takes advantage of this human trait, beginning with this intentionally confusing logic that says,”Here, this is for you. I have it all figured out so you don’t have to…think!”, at the same time saying that if it isn’t true for you… and on and on it goes.
The subject latches on, not realizing he is actually not thinking critically at all. That is because he is constantly being pounded with LRH-think that says, hey, good job, thinking like I am telling you, believing what I am telling you, yes, you can marvel at the possibilities!
All deception, that’s the true nature of this cult: to cut your powers of perception, make it less and less likely that you will figure it out on your own cognizance, what in the hell is going on.
-While every trick in the book is used to make you think you are thinking for yourself, at the same time every trick in the book is also going on to make you think you “need” lots and lots of auditing. And if we arbitrarily decide a process needs revision, auditing you did last year needs to be done again, of course. Like everything else in scientology, just another trick, another all-out fraud, another piece of the con… it all piles up until you are spent, at which point your true scientology destiny arrives, which is either the gutter or the grave-pit, whichever, because the truth is your destiny is not what matters.
What matters is how much money and energy they can get out of you before you get there, the end. Don’t talk to your friends, mom or dad, certainly not the media. Just get more auditing. If you don’t have the money put it on plastic, or work yourself to death for us, sure, that’ll be just fine.
The solution to all this is just be skeptical. Question reality as it presents itself, demand that it be proven. Assume nothing, including what you took for truth yesterday. There could always be a hidden mistake, no matter what you are being told. The taller the story, the more likely a mis-perception is taking place.
And, above all, question the source.
IF the source forbids, or in any way punishes you, for expressing doubt-
or criticism-
THEN you may know you are walking straight towards a trap.
Without critical thought we are reduced to bait.
“Without critical thought we are reduced to bait.” Outstanding line & completely true. Nice post, Mark.
Thanks OldMan,
happy to be heard as you know
being understood is great
and bliss to be called Surfer especially whenever im not being a girl
or an Old Man… actually including whenever im being a girl, which is getting to be predominately prevalent as the pervasive gender because i’m always young that way, not funny ha-ha.
It’s not the philosophy so much as the company you keep,
you bunch of old souls.
Hang ten and ride just for the fun of it knowing there’s always more happy just being OUT.=Mark out.
“IF the source forbids, or in any way punishes you, for expressing doubt-
or criticism- THEN you may know you are walking straight towards a trap.”
Gotta say, I wish more people of all religions could see the truth of that sentence. That’s the biggest reality in the world, that turns faith into weapons and forced of destruction – that questioning the gospel is a sin unto itself. When people tell the story of Eve and Adam being told not to eat fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, THAT is the true moral of the story. If any deity or faith wants to punish you for gaining knowledge, it is nothing that deserves worship.
…nothing deserves worship, i’d say, beyond that of the sun and Mother Nature,
playing it on the safe side… nothing save for ones’ own reason. If a deity deserves praise for any gifts beyond nature, it would be for cognizance and the time that is allowed us.
I err on the side of nothing deserves REAL worship, not even my own reason, because that is as flawed as anything else. I don’t even like anthropomorphizing nature, because it implies human consciousness in a system which is clearly lacking in consciousness or a conscience.
Sure, I worship(ped) Joss Whedon, Robin Williams, George Carlin, Anais Nin, Aaron Sorkin, Stephen Fry and a few others. But it’s not REAL worship, because one of the things I love about those individuals – aside from their talents, wits, wisdom and bodies of work – is that they’d never be so arrogant as to expect to be treated with reverence. 🙂
I had to look that up, anthropic principle, the.
And, i’d have to say your logic holds up when you say the Universe lacks human consciousness, if that’s what you’re saying, and if you are excluding humans from the equation.
So, i won’t argue it.
I happen to like thinking that way, anthropomorphically, although I never enjoyed the word before now. “God is in the Sun”, as a thought just gives me comfort. It does follow in the footsteps of so many ancient cultures, the Mayans for instance. Of course, there is a lot assumption going on there, which means faith has been adopted to that degree. And faith defies reason. But, still, there it is. What makes me different than a cult is that i don’t demand acceptance, and i’m getting a deal of pleasure, talking to you and considering your point of view.
Anyone who idolizes comedians is alright in my book and I have to admire the courage of independent thought.
Believe me, among the non-traditional spiritualists, general purpose worshiping of the sun or nature is pretty common. and it so rarely involves cult-like absolutes that I would never presume it in anyone.
I get that people like to think that way – it’s a very common theme in human nature. Check out how many commercials these days will anthropomorphize animals, inanimate objects (like the Progressive Box) and food (way too much breakfast cereal cannibalizing going on).
I personally avoid it, because it feeds into a default attitude among conservative Christians in the U.S., that deep down we all believe in their god, we just don’t all admit it or we specifically reject it – basically the notion that their absolutist religion is supported by non-absolutist spiritualists, who see non-specific deities in nature. As a secularist, that pisses me off. The moronic stereotypes on atheists and are bad enough in this country, without allowing them to reinforce the delusion of a “Christian Nation” by miscategorizing a spiritualist as a religionist.
Kind of like the frustration in hearing CoS constantly quote bullshit statistics to support the delusion that they are a growing body of spirituality and world power.
But while I am a “devout” atheist and secularist, I also enjoy conversations about spiritualism and religious philosophy, especially when it’s with someone who doesn’t confuse beliefs with facts. Comparative Religions was one of my favorite classes in college. 🙂
I was listening to the Rachel Bernstein and I learned a new word I thought you’d like…
inculcate – def. instill (an attitude, idea, or habit) by persistent instruction.
An otherwise benign word made quite nefarious in the hands of cults.
Huge topic, Mike. Would be a good choice for someone’s doctorate.
What I find fascinating is how this phenomena was brought about by one man. How did we go from “Here are some books I wrote you may find useful, you decide.” to “I am the Source of all the secrets in the universe and the only hope for mankind.” Remarkable.
Much has been said about the significance of KSW #1 and the effect it has had on the mindset of the church. For me, it marked the end of the subject and the birth of the cult we have today. I suspect nearly everyone who first read it recoiled from it.
One of the consequences of KSW #1 is that it barred critical examination and inspection of Scientology itself, and favored blind religious allegiance. To this day, one of the worst crimes you can commit in the church is to critically question or debate the technology or the church’s policies.
And you’ve gone past the point of no return if you start to question LRH, his character, his history, his personal life. No one – ever, can meet or exceed his Grand OTness; despite the fact that he spent his last years on the lam, hiding from law-men, estranged from his family, quite possibly suffering from mental illness, begging his friend to kill him.
Information Control is the only thing keeping the church alive. Which is why it is dying.
Thank you for this StatPush.
This exposes aptly what the cult works so feverishly to hide
and keep secret,
(and how it ever succeeded in the first place).
At the end of the day, it is no exaggeration to call LRH a brilliant and cunning sociopath,
truth be told.
[“KSW” is a policy letter written by LRH, that tells straight-up that The Source (referring to himself and his writings) must never be questioned nor compromised.]
Once upon a time, long before I imprisoned myself in Scientology, I was seeing a psychotherapist (he was soon “handled” by the magic of the “tech”), and he described neurosis as “people getting used to their own stink, no matter how bad it is”.After escaping the cult, I again realized how wise he was. It appears that in their sealed bubble there is a communal “stink” where all have lost the sense of smell.
“Lost the sense of smell”, how true… Michael, I wanted to thank you again for your write-up that I found on Marty’s blog after seeing him and Mike on CNN. That was the real turning point for me, and I have learned so much since then. Thank you for your integrity, and God bless!
To that i might add…
impervious that banal creed shall be, to my vain attempt to penetrate either the bubble or the fissures of the cranium, the void occupied only by that brain-squash found between deaf ears and behind blinded eyes of the beleaguered scientologist who, running on such noble faith, yet is lost without a particle of knowledge solid enough to warrant any faith whatsoever, lost again for no time to stop and smell the roses, should that sense of smell or any other sense momentarily be recovered. All accepted without question and in the absence of thought. You can buy certainty, but it comes at the price of reason.
Fantastic analogy.
Wow. Love it!
Sniff, sniff… you’re right! Great analogy, mind if I use it a little?
Use it a lot!
I bought into the Kool aid before it became a buzz word.
When the lies became so obvious I actually had
Shahab Emrani ( Arab Jew) tell me to “keep your Blinders On”
keep your eye on the mountain which is in fact an abyss
with fancy window dressing and excellent pr firm.
“jump n our pit, it’s better than any other pit”
So I reply “No thanks” I am happy with my own hog wallow.
The Basics Success Story sounds wonderful but it’s all just a bunch of hot air. MS writes about how he has helped people out of their struggles by orienting them to the principles of the (infamously unintelligible) Axioms. He also could understand the logical progression of Hubbard’s (fallacious) conclusions! If we were to pin MS down and ask for specifics in detail, the story would no doubt, diminish in grandeur. For instance, we may learn how he saved the day by employing the ‘technology’ of the “comm-cycle” where he said, “I GET WHAT YOU’RE SAYING” before trashing the other person’s non-scientology point of view.
How can you say it’s hot air??? I used to help numerous people solve situations they were struggling with by orienting them to the truths of the Scientology Axioms all the time. As a matter of fact, once a neighbor called me and said she couldn’t get her car started and needed to be at her job in less than half an hour. I told her, “Life is basically a static” and hung up. With my unparalleled insight into life, I am able to resolve any situation I run into without hesitation.
If you haven’t done the Basics Roger, you need to do them. If you have, you need to re-do them. The Basics will provide you with everything you need to know about everything you need to know.
Classic RB
RB The sad thing about this comment is that a Scientologist would post this as a win.
Lol, RB!
Speaking of hot air.
An interesting read is the John Campbell letters to Heinlein and Heinlein’s responses. It costs a few bucks to read them and they are copyrighted so I can’t post them. Here’s the link:
http://heinleinarchives.net/upload/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=893
Campbell was hot and heavy into Dianetics and tried really hard to get Heinlein involved. Campbell even was auditing family and friends.
The pattern of the 124 page file is like Campbell will write a 4 page letter to Heinlein explaining the greatest of Ron’s new discovery. Heinlein’s one page return letter was that he was interested but wanted some proof. This went on for 2 years.
There is some juicy stuff in those letters and I won’t tell you the ending. I did email Tony O about this, hopefully he will do a story on it, but who knows.
Thanks for the link. I see I can read that correspondence for twelve bucks and it is just the sort of thing I like especially having been a big Heinlein fan. I’m very intrigued!
you’re welcome. But the specific link is for the file number CORR306-07, which only costs 2 bucks.
That file is mostly about dianetics. The other files do not contain too much info.
These letters explain some things that others are not aware of, IMHO.
Very good. I’ve just downloaded it and it looks like a terrific read and not overly daunting. Thanks.
The best thing about completing the Basics and Lectures was the adulation I received afterwards. “You’ve changed.” “You’re looking good.” “I can see the difference in you.” I enjoyed that for a while. (I did stop to wonder just how I’d changed and what was different about me before!)
Also, while I was doing them, and I put in many hours of self study at home, I felt like a good person.
I did have to wade through many of the lectures which were filled with disrelated stuff, talk about wondering off topic (I found out from Nibs that Hubbard was high whilst doing these lectures!), just to get them behind me.
Out of hundreds lectures, I gained one piece of information that was useful to me and that I still use. It was contained in a short sentence. What a price to pay for it!
… “talk about wondering off topic” … the word I was looking for was non-sequitur!
Since the subject of Scientology fascinates me to no end and i have read all the survivor books as well as Dianetics and so much on the Scion site itself (makes my eyes bleed). I get to a point of thinking I really “understand” it all and then I read this and it brings me right back to the very start of my quest for “reason”… Why the amazingly basic concept of giving up personal autonomy? I understand the mind control and the atmosphere of dependence that slowly encircled those of you who are ex-members at the beginning of your envolvement. Is it a weaning process where you learn to stop listening to your own voice of reason allowing only LRH’s dictates to take over? This is why the cult is so dangerous. I read here all the time and I literally rejoice in your wisdom, insight and ability to free-think after all that so many of you suffered through are able to process. Jeff Hawkins book broke my heart and made me begin this quest. Now, I carry a sign, they don’t like me in Cambridge. As an “outsider” I do all I can to get the word out and while things like Leah’s book and Mike Rinder’s wonderful blog here are important, I also think that word of mouth still carries much weight. Whenever I recommend a book to someone, like myself, they are compelled to learn more. When DM and the cherch finally, actually fall, it will be because of the strength you all weird in sharing the truth.
Wield, not weird…but then again! Couldn’t resist!
“When DM and the cherch finally, actually fall, it will be because of the strength you all weird in sharing the truth” …. true. Information, like water, seeks it’s own level.
I too have found this subject to be endlessly fascinating and I think that the common themes of wanting to help people and/or being in a time of life where one is searching for answers or explanations for the trials and tribulations of life are the main reasons many people originally got into scientology. (aside from the 2nd/3rd generation, whose general reason for staying seems to be that everyone they knew was a Scientologist and the indoctrination of growing up in that environment.)
but when people are seeking a path, or feeling unsure about how to navigate life and are told “hey, we have the answers, step thru this door, we’ll tell you what’s wrong with your life and give you back the control you are looking for” that’s incredibly powerful. And they show you the success stories, they give you the shore stories, and these people are basically the equivalent of extremely good fortune tellers – they are very well trained to read a person in an instant, to find their ruin and give the person something to latch onto. and the person thinks ‘finally! these Scientologists know what’s up! if I continue down this path, I’ll not only be helping the world, I’ll be successful and confident and affluent just like them.’ and then it is easy to lose yourself, because you were already looking to hand the reins to someone, even just for a bit. and by the time the stars are out if your eyes, it’s too late.
I believe this was more the case during the time Hubbard was alive, because he was charming and vital, and all these stories were bursting from him and there was an air of mystery about the upper levels. and he was there, you could write to him, he had the ability to change his mind about things or write new policy and he was endlessly creating. (I’m in no way saying that LRH was a saint, or wasn’t a volatile sociopath, mind you, but from reading a lot of former members accounts and Going Clear and listening to Jeffrey Augustine’s interviews etc. this is the impression that I got.) Those former members who got to see LRH as just a man we bewildered and devastated to realize how much of his shit was just shit, but those who never met him or only met him when he was in “hail fellow well met” mode have built him into a Titan of the Mind, a man before his time.
And now, there’s only his legend. His writings (from what many here have said) have been changed and altered by DM, his policies are ignored, and the cherch is something entirely different. So I have no idea why new people fall for this. the ones that have been in forever keep hoping LRH will come back to smite DM, or the ones who have grown up in the Miscavige Era don’t know anything else but the bubble – they haven’t thought for themselves for a very long time, or ever. and that’s a scary thing, when you’ve been told your whole life that no one but LRH knows what to do in any given situation.
I am a never-in, and if I’ve misread the situation and put things here that are flat out wrong or are offensive to anyone, I apologize and hope that you will let me know. I initially was just interested in scientology when I started reading this blog, but since I’ve been lurking for several months I have come to know this group and those on Tony’s blog as some of the most decent and kind and smart people I’ve ever read (i can’t really say met, but hope you know what I mean.) And that is incredible to me. it’s almost as if after being forced to turn your humanity off during the times you were in, you emerged extra-human(e) as a result. it’s certainly the most well mannered group of people on the Internet, just look at any thread on reddit if you want a lesson in people acting like dickheads. ☺ anyway, sorry for the novel, I thank you all for being here, I think your experiences have helped me be a better person, more forgiving and accepting…
Sashiebgood, IMHO you’ve summarized it quite well for a never in.
There may be nuances for each person, but you seem to have spent some good observational time. Thanks for some really interesting comments.
I for one enjoyed reading your “novel”, nodded at the handing over the reins (just for a little while) part and laughed out loud at “were bewildered and devastated to realize his shit was just shit.”
Thanks for taking the time to comment. It hit home with me, so your time wasn’t wasted at least in my universe FWIW.
thank you, Valerie! I’m never quite sure if I’m totally off base and don’t want to be disrespectful of the suffering that all here had to endure. so I appreciate your comment. ?
I really enjoyed your summary and very much relate!
Very good analysis. Yes, “certainty”, and I would add “knowingness”. It would irk me when a friend of mine would always cite their “knowingness” about something they didn’t have facts about. While I believe there are such things as intuition and “knowingness”, in the CoS it is too often used as an excuse not to look or examine, so like “certainty”, it can be self-limiting and self-imprisoning.
As to the success stories, I don’t doubt that some people do have wins, even if they have to write one at the completion of a service. I myself had wins with the tech early on that I would not trade for anything. But it seems sometimes to be a competition to see who can write the best one, or perhaps they have attested in a “safe valence” to avoid going to Qual, or perhaps a few months down the road, the wins cease. We’ll never know, unless we know the person. At best, honest success stories can peak your interest in doing a service, but the puffed-up ones only contribute to a mutually-reinforced delusion, and disappoint others who did not get those same wins. But there will be an excuse for that too, of course. “Hidden standards”, etc.
Hopefully, those of us who were in actually DID get something from it. No matter what it was, if it worked for you and actually created the situations you valued, hang onto those and forget the rest. YOU were source on anything/everything you actually received from which you gained benefit/wisdom/happiness. It wasn’t the auditor, it wasn’t the tech, it wasn’t Hubbard. It was YOU digging into things and making changes.
Not without any help, respectfully, I don’t agree. For me it WAS the auditor, following the C/S for the session. I gained from it, but would have never made those gains on my own. I would have made “other” gains.
I was wondering why they always print quotes or success stories by scientologists using only initials? Never full names, never even a last name, always anonymous initials. (Years ago it seems like they sometimes used a first name followed by a initial for the last name. I figured they stopped that because it was too easy for people at the local orgs to realize no “Christie N.” existed in their org.)
I’m sure it’s because someone in marketing doesn’t want to even go through the trouble of getting an actual person to sign off on their balderdash?
Christie it’s possible that the success story is real, but if they publish a real name, the person who wrote it has IMHO a 50/50 chance of already having seen the light and no longer being on lines.
They’ve already had to remake all those promotional movies Michael Fairman et al were in when they left. It’s cheaper to not identify anyone since the chances are so high that they will leave anyway.
Thanks for the link to Jeff Hawkins blog. Read his post and hope others do, too.
When I was a fundamentalist Scientologist for 40 years I had all the “thought stoppers” but I got “out” because I was convinced that the admin technology and the Advanced courses were being squirreled. So, I stepped out of organization and took a look at the internet, just looking for ways to correct the situation… I was amazed at what I found.
I’ve been out 10 years now and I am still unraveling from being in a cult. And, I had no idea was even in a cult, until a few years ago.
With Going Clear and the many other disclosures, the world is getting to know Scientology. But, Scientologists that are “in” are not getting know Scientology until they get out.
Interesting that you post this as for some reason I woke up this morning with similar thoughts (great minds blah blah).
I was reminiscing on the fact that even after I left, LONG after I left, the hugest thing that stuck with me and the hardest thing for me to shake was the indoctrination that I knew so much more than everyone else..
I still believed myself to be smarter, more aware, more knowledgeable, more able, in possession of some sooper seekrit knowledge and technology even though I had long since left scientology in my dust.
It took forever to see through “study tech” niacin, Purif, barley formula, babies are adults in a small bodies bit above all that;
The arrogance and lack of compassion drilled into me by having been a member of the group I left were the things that were the hardest to recognize I took with me when I left and the hardest pieces of baggage to abandon years later.
Valerie – I don’t know how long it was for you, but I carried that “I know things” attitude for over 30 years after long ago dismissing scn as a cult. After watching the hbo doc I reexamined my scio experience and was quite surprised at how many unsavory attitudes I carried forward.
Also quite happily I uncovered “cognitive dissonance” which is a mouthful and I just call it “arrested development” (lol) after betrayal by scio.
That was “I should continue my intellectual and spiritual development – BUT – I can’t trust anyone” I have rekindled my interest in learning.
Richard, it took me over 20 years and my uncle that I adored calling me a pompous blowhard to reexamine my know it all attitude. It hit me really hard. I Learned humility, but haven’t recovered my relationship with my uncle but his wife and I communicate regularly. (No worries, his daughter has told him not to speak to her unless he can treat her with respect, and they haven’t spoken since he treated me that way, so he is a pompous blowhard himself which is why he recognized it in me).
I do, however have compassion for others and the ability to accept that I do not know it all.
Valerie, Mark Rathbun on a recent “Middle Path” post suggested “Harmonize reason with compassion”. I looked long and hard at that to get it. You arrived there on your own. Very Well Done – Humanity prevails
$cio’s ARE arrogant. I soon found out that Hubbard was a phoney after I left the cherch and it freed me.
It was a great relief to me to realise I didn’t know everything, nor was I superior to everyone else and neither did I have all the answers. This meant that I could live life. I could just live.
I went right back to before I became a $cio to letting “people own their own problems!” It was wonderful. My relationships are now so relaxed and I no longer have any need to put anyone right. It’s a liberating experience.
I just couldn’t finish reading that SS, it’s so boringly unrealistic to anything living or dead it made my eyes water. Scientologists have cornered the market on delusion.
The arrogance of ‘know it all scientologists’ just goes to prove the minds of scientologists have come full circle. They reactively think in identities and there is only one source/identity for everything – Hubbard! and maybe his iddy bitty little shadow, miscavige is now gaining in the race for wana-be implant idols.
I’ve read a lot of Hubbard’s stuff, especially what he wrote in the 50s and I have to admit that he never said to adopt the mindset you easily see in an organisational scientologist, if anything he said exactly the opposite. I truly don’t have an opinion on Freezoners etc. as long as they don’t rip people off or abuse them I don’t care what they do or think. To me there’s nothing wrong with scientology (less its policy of course) except the idiots who adhere to way it’s run and has to believed in within the church. They are a screaming bunch of nut cases.
For a subject which has as its base motivation, the attainment of self-determinism, boy have they fucked up!
It always made my butt go tight when I was in, the term, “what would Ron do?” Geezers, (apart from obvious technical errors needing correction) who gives a fuck! But I played the game until I woke up and walked away.
This, “what’s the reference on that?” is the biggest out-list item on the scientologist’s mind melded drop down menu.
Scientology was never meant to lived, it’s only a tool at best and I still maintain the formation of the SO was Hubbard’s biggest mistake. No military style organisation can ever think for itself and is always subject to takeovers or coups.
“wana-be implant idols” is an adorable description.
Delusion + Certainty = Scientology
This made me think of finding a person’s “ruin” and then telling them that scio can handle that, even though not having a clue as to exactly HOW. As much as I hate to admit it, I was damn sure religious!
You’re right about Coca Cola, Mike. The only thing they have to worry about is Pepsi. LOL
They have the whole natural health field to worry about, too, never you fear. And it’s a large sector of the planet. (I nearly said “universe” – so $cn!)
“I’m in a high condition at all times, and that’s because I have a true understanding of how life works.”
Wow, M.S! How do you get any work done? I mean, I’m in a high condition several times a day, but, nothing like what you’re doing! My hat is off to you, young person.
Also, I may give you a call if you don’t mind as I seem to have a false understanding of how life works. I mean, you hand over tons of cash to a mind bending, brainwashing, family destroying, financial ruining, public school infiltrating (very scary), abortion forcing, toxic, evil & militant cult. With my ‘false understanding of how life works’, I go surfing whenever I want. I’ve had a rock band for 10 years now and we pack ’em in. I get to go to the gym to stay in shape. I also get to go to the movies with my wife, ANYTIME WE WANT. And, we can even go out to restaurants too! And the topper? I own a home at beach! And currently it’s decorated for the Holidays!
I know, I know, M.S., I don’t have the tech. But, with my false understanding of how life works, life is beautiful!
Ok, ok. Last one. I know you you’ve done the Super Power Rundown as well as the Cause Resurgence Rundown so to tell you the truth, I’m in awe of you! Would love to see a demonstration of your incredible powers! And speaking of Super Powers, my wife, among other things, is a travel agent. What kind of Super Powers does a travel agent have, you might ask. Well, for decades, we’ve traveled to Hawai’i (where were both from), and have been to every island multiple times as well as all over the Caribbean. And our trips are either comped or greatly discounted. I even got to go to Kenya one year with my wife who goes to Kenya every year.
So, you see, M.S., even with the tech, my wife’s Super Powers beat the shit out of yours. Sorry…had to be said.
OSD, Ron says in ‘Problems of Work’ that people don’t really enjoy vacations. So if you just read it and clear your mu’s you’ll see what a waste of time your wonderful trips were.
First off, did he REALLY say that? Now, do you mean to tell me that all of our Hawai’i, Caribbean and African trips were for naught??? We really DID NOT have fun??? All in all it’s a drag and complete waste of time??? Well, if LRH said it, I guess the least I can do is…keep going on our fabulous trips and hope beyond hope that fatso was telling the truth. Because this one is a WHOPPER!
In my religion the pursuit of happiness is the whole gig, and if you are engaged in that pursuit, well, you are winning and a veritable success in the eyes of the supreme lord. Good again to hear your word, OSD.
But… Tom Cruise would like to take a vacation, romp and play.
OSD what a sad life you have 😉
Don’t you see how much better off you’d be if you didn’t have time to relax, if you worried that every call you got was begging you for more money to “save the planet”, if you were worried that you couldn’t communicate your feelings freely with your fellow human beings, even your family and friends for fear they would report you?
Yeah, you’re right I don’t see it either. Carry on.
OSD, you’re putting on a brave face for all of us but, please, you’re among friends, you can tell us the truth!
We all know and agree that anyone not helping every Sunday on his org’s Central Files Project is only going thru the motions of living.
And OMG, not attending Int Events! not being an OT Committee Member! pretty much guarantees a miserable, meaningless existence.
We understand, OSD.
We all suffer as you do.
I mean, I TRY to be happy, and now and then I believe I’m actually succeeding, but then I think of how I could be passing a hat around at an OTC meeting, and I know I’m only kidding myself.
I really envy your ability to surf OSD. I took surfing lessons at Santa Monica years ago, this was after I was done with LRH’s tech and I just couldn’t get the hang of it. I figured I must have had overts and withholds preventing me from getting up on that surfboard.
An all time favorite, eventually internalized thought-stopper: “That’s Dev-t!” Works like a charm! 😉
test
Ok. Ummmmmmmm….Aha! I’ve got one! Ok, how do you know when a cult member is lying?
Bea, Give me your answer anytime you want.
I remember as a new Scientologist I looked at the 72 lectures that made up the Philadelphia Doctorate Course (PDC) and thought, “If I could ever listen to and understand them I would really be a Scientologist.”
I thought they would be a gold mine of invaluable, OT information. Well a couple decades later I did the actual course. I did all the drills, demos, etc and really worked hard at it. When I finished I realized there was pretty much nothing from the course that had any value in life. The lectures were full of yack and hypothetical theories about how the universe is created and works. It was lame and very disappointing.
The fact is LRH is an incredible story teller, con man and egotist all rolled into one, sprinkled with a big shaker of crazy.
Mat. Wow.
That’s exactly what I came away with.
The deeper I immersed myself, the more I learned, the more training and processing I got the more I realized just how wrong the whole thing was.
You, however have put it much more succinctly than I ever could. It would take me volumes of words to say what you packed in those last 4 sentences.
Thank you.
I got more games from reading the Mission Earth series them from reading anything else LRH wrote.
Great presentation about this subject and this article brought to mind one phrase used over and over that also invited the stop-thought phenomena to occur: “Do it for LRH” “Lets do it for LRH/Source” or such.
This was used in events or even at staff meetings in order to (covertly) convince us then, and the remaining ones now, that whatever was asked for needed to be done and it sure covertly propitiated a guilty feeling if you did not do it as, how could you not do it for Source? Unbelievable thought manipulation.
Yes Mike, hard to believe we were there, but fortunately we came out, are now living life and enjoying it a lot.
“What would Ron do?”
Run and hide? Isn’t that what he did for a great part of his life? That was his 1st Dynamic. On his 2nd, he scammed his second wife, pretended she never existed, kidnapped his child and was a lousy father to his later children. As for the 3rd, he corrupted thousands of people via his “Sea Organization,” a false semi military group over which he exercised total control. And all of this while running and hiding. What a sad history to leave in his wake.
Punt…
If you’re on staff and you dare tell your senior you’ve been “thinking” about something, it causes all manner of trouble.
You are only allowed to KNOW, and the only way to KNOW is to search for whatever Hubbard said about a thing… In all his contradictory glory:/
“Knowing how to know” just as with much of $cientology has a deeper and quite disturbing meaning to it.
Victoria, on a reg cycle a few years ago at ASHO (as part of an ethics cycle, a young henchboy was almost demanding that I get this new 1% credit card and put $31,000 worth of basics on it, which I was then supposed to somehow resell) … I started to say that “I don’t think that is what I am going to do” and he shoved his palm an inch away from my face and screamed “DON’T THINK!.” Uhm … of course not. Why would I want to THINK when I should just agree to be COMMANDED and proceed to act like a robot whose button was pushed? It was the next day, as the reg cycle continued, that after 35 years of the tech life in Scientology, I understood what this young man and his chohorts were REALLY up to and right there at a desk in ASHO, decided to leave the church of scientology and no longer be a member, which I then proceeded to do as everyone got up and went to lunch. I felt strangely liberated.
‘knowing how to know’ is disturbing as a concept only from the viewpoint trapped inside the bubble. Otherwise and including here, it is a form of bliss.
“The answers to every question anyone may have about life are unequivocally found in the basics…”
hu·bris ˈ(h)yo͞obrəs/
noun
excessive pride or self-confidence.
synonyms: arrogance, conceit, haughtiness, hauteur, pride, self-importance, egotism, pomposity, superciliousness, superiority; More
(in Greek tragedy) excessive pride toward or defiance of the gods, leading to nemesis.
The walls of the bubble are thick with this one.
Excellent word LDW!
It’s an all bubble encapsulating term for a fitting explanation of scientology’s motivation.
+1
(with applause to join the applause)
I guess it’s those of you that escaped from Scientology who have asked the question “What if LHR didn’t know everything?”
What I’m most sad about for escapees is that there are many, many, many ex-Scientologists on different blogs and places that I’m reading that have a lot to offer the world and you have been held back by the prison of belief. Now that you are out you can fly like the rest of us. Welcome to listening to both your logical and intuitive sides, which if you hadn’t been brainwashed would have screamed at you in the beginning “somethings not right here”…(unless of course you were a child when you went in, when you had no choice and were your most vulnerable)… I’m loving reading all that is written.
As an outsider it’s fascinating to see the workings of this cult and watch it’s ultimate demise. I give it a maximum of 5 more years, and that’s only because the IRS wheels and other government agencies move so slowly. We don’t know that John Travolta isn’t going to revolt at some point or some other high profile member. I’m just watching, enjoying learning and waiting to see what happens when those of you who have escaped put your collective energies together to overthrow this horrendous cult and get everyone to see them for what they are a Business with a capital “B”.
“Scientology Properties Inc.” Lots of cash for the top execs to enjoy and the lawyers will make it legal, probably with high paying jobs as Chief Executive Officers at front groups.
too, sadly, the truth….the arrogance of those that I know is obnoxious.
Hey petlover, imagine the depth of the fall that at some time, will certainly occur.. And yes, arrogance is obnoxious in general, but, more so in cult members. But…they too are still victims.
the siren yearns for compassion true
OSD +1. Victims for sure.
Great post. And so true. I clearly recall when first getting in I was making terrific money. Really mind-blowing amounts. I then took the advice of a seasoned staff member, the ED!, since they knew everything about money. LOLOLOLOLOLOL. It took me 30 years to recover from that advice!
Apparently you did NOT apply the Tech Standardly……….
What are your crimes?
A girlfriend of mine was a well-established model when she got in. Someone convinced her that making money from something so MEST’y was really not the greatest good. She has struggled since. I hope she comes out with us soon.
I need LRH to teach me math………
LRH’s math is sacred and is only available on Target 2. Sorry to break the news to you, Jeff.
For the measly price of only 5.7X your annual income, it’s a bargain! (subject to updates and revisions – compulsory & sold separately).
Let’s bring back Arbitraries…
That’s what I think too… but I can’t make up my mind which are the best. As long as they appear to work I suppose – yes, those are the best. They just have to look good, cost a fortune and serve no useful function. As my wife says, “for pretty…” but I’ve leant to avoid responding to those in anything but a positive manner. Just like working for someone else I know, but we won’t go there.
Want to start a “best arbitrary of the week,” award?
I’ll start – “Money can buy happiness.”
Yawn, I’m paraphrasing the late Helen Gurley Brown: “Money may not buy happiness but it can allow you to be miserable in comfort”.
Correct HGB Quote: “Money, if it does not bring you happiness, will at least help you to be miserable in comfort.”
“As good as it gets,” is another.
I Yawn,
funny, i always assumed you were a girl (no reason)
i love you anyway and Aqua too, just had to say it, whether that counts as an arbitrary or not. I never found a wife (rare bird of peculiar feathers I be) but i am so happy for all you dudes that have, and being happy is what it is all about.-mm