This is an important survey put together by Jeffrey Augustine and first published on his blog.
I am republishing it here for anyone who may have missed it there.When someone gives money to scientology, they are led to believe that should they be dissatisfied all they need to do is ask and their money will be cheerfully refunded with the only condition being that they are no longer able to participate in scientology services. Of course, those who want their money back don’t really want to continue participating, so this is never a big deal when they hand over their cash. What they don’t know is that when the time comes to collect on that promise, it’s no dice.
Scientology has misrepresented it’s “policy” on return of “donations” to those who have given money, but also to the IRS in order to gain tax exempt status.
Here is what scientology informed the IRS:
It has been a long-standing policy of the Church that if someone is dissatisfied with their Scientology services and asks to have their contributions returned within a three month period, these amounts will be returned. Likewise, if the person asks for return of contributions for which no services were received (i.e. an advance payment), there is no three month limitation period. Anyone newly enrolling in services at a Church of Scientology is informed of the policies and signs an agreement to abide by them. As a further condition of receiving a refund or repayment, the person understands that they may not again receive services from the Church.
Within the Church, there are two separate terms: A “refund” refers to a return of contributions to a parishioner within 90 days of participating in religious services while a “repayment” refers to a return of a parishioner’s advance payment before he or she has participated in religious services. For simplicity, the following discussion will use the term “refund” to describe both types of transactions, because both involve a return of parishioner contributions.
The Church’s refund policy is exceedingly fair. If someone isn’t happy with Scientology — which is a very small minority of people — he simply has to make a proper request for his donations back, agree to forego further services and his donations will be returned. For the Church, in addition to the fact that this policy aligns with Scientology principles of exchange, it also serves the purpose of allowing our churches and the parishioners who are very happy with Scientology, to carry on without the unhappy few in their midst.
Obviously, this is NOT true.
If you have given money to scientology and want it back or have not been able to get it back, please fill out the survey below and read the instructions from Jeff before doing so. If there is any difficulty accessing the survey on this blog, go to The Scientology Money Project and do the survey from there.
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WASEL-AUGUSTINE SCIENTOLOGY REFUND-REPAYMENT FRAUD SURVEY
Instructions:This is an important survey. It is very safe as you are not asked to provide your name or any other identifying personal information. After you answer questions, please scroll down to the “NEXT” box to go to the next page. Completion time is estimated at ten minutes.
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Please share this survey and encourage other Scientologists or former Scientologists to complete the survey. If you would like to send us documents please e-mail them to: waselaugustinesurvey@gmail.com.
If you have many documents please place them in a Dropbox and send us a link so we can download the documents.
The Wasel-Augustine Scientology Refunds-Repayment Survey represents the first ever formal attempt to quantify a specific institutional behavior of Scientology. In this instance, the legitimacy of Scientology’s claims of having a transparent refund/repayments policy, as well as the human cost of Scientology’s problematic financial behavior in this regard.
The survey will extrapolate data from a variety of key indicators, such as the amount a member has/had on account, their time in Scientology, their level of success in attempting to obtain a refund or repayment from Scientology, as well as if they experienced undue levels of aggressive “regging”. It also asks if they were coerced into exceeding their credit limit or pressured into opening new accounts to fund Scientology services, and lastly, the extent of any negative lifestyle outcomes that may have arisen from their financial relationship with Scientology.
Putting money on account for courses and sessions to be performed in the future…
Sounds like a business, not a religion.
Why do they have tax free status again?
How do U.S. taxpayers stand for these freeloaders?
There shouldn’t be any problem getting back money on account as I believe but could be wrong that it hasn’t been used yet. Money for services received? Ha! Forget that! They’ve already spent that shit on staff pay, toilet paper, Dave’s new Lamborghini,………..
Well, you get the idea.
Money on account is spent just as fast in failing orgs. Was a treas sec, believe me every penny squeezed out of the public was spend 5 times before the days is over. Have to keep the lights on you know.
Thanks, 8080, and it sheds light on why orgs renege on the refund policy. So, when you were a Treas Sec, where did the money come from to honor refund requests, if there were any?
Well after the whole procedure ppl would be told they would receive their refund but off course nothing happened. Quite a few lost their will to fight for it after being bullied with remarks about how they would forfeit their refund if they went to a lawyer or the media. The cases where money was given back that came out of new donations. (Big fat APs rugged specifically for that reason)
My last AOLA statement included a negative balance of a $3,900 credit/loan for auditing that I supposedly received in 1988. I never heard of an auditing loan. I never received the auditing, and I wasn’t anywhere near AOLA during that time frame.
Also, I had $387.00 on account for many, many years for auditing services. I asked for a refund over and over and over. On this last statement, the $387 was debited for a public tape play. Are they fucking kidding me? I told them I would never even pay $387 for the actual fucking tape let alone only listen to it in public.
This was not an uncommon practice to rip off accounts for Basics or “tape play” when the Basics were the big push somewhere between 2008 and 2010.
I have that stupidass DVD and sometimes I watch it just for laughs.
I’m referring to the 2007 Basics DVD that orgs send to everyone to get them to buy the Basics.
Wow you still have that stuff….I burn’t my last two Scieno books a couple of weeks ago. It was soooooo satisfying burning the ethics book ????
Can they refund me 15 years of my life paid to the sea org, the working hours of which add up to 40 years of a ‘normal’ full time job, most of which were not paid either in salary or in services promised. Can they refund me for the agony they caused me and my parents because my parents did ask for a refund of unused monies on account, and they were given a declare order for daring to ask, and I was forced to disconnect from them for five long and agonizingly painful years until I took matters into my own hands and reconnected with them anyway. The pain and damage the COS causes is 10X more than the money they extort, and therefore they should not only refund their ill gotten money to all who ask, they should pay damages, and they should pay staff and sea org members who worked for nothing under unbelievable duress, for all the hours of slave labor they extorted from us.
Yes you are correct. I think I’ll send in a bill 🙂
Haha yes! And then they have the sheer audacity to send US a freeloader bill??????? THE SEA ORG IS THE FREELOADER!!!
+1000, White Light.
It’s a shame that we can’t ask for, nor receive the IAS membership monies back, especially when one only stayed a short time. I could’ve bought what I wanted on the free six-month.
However they know the royal (screw) way of securing your money, by sweeping you off your feet by offering great deals, and make guilty, if don’t take it. Gee, reminds me of a Cult!
Do you still get Impact? I believe when you bought the membership it intitalled you to the magazine. If you are not getting your Lifetime subscription, send them a bill.
Well, Cece, that all depends on if Dee was an annual membership or a Lifetime. If she was annual, the Impact subscription ran out when she stopped donating. If Lifetime, she should still be getting the magazine unless she was declared or put into lower conditions.
I haven’t found a good place to do this so I’m doing it here. I want to seriously thank Mike Rinder and Leah Remini for doing the show. Since it aired, all the annoying phone calls from church have stopped! I can’t tell you how happy that makes me! For 20 years I have begged them to please stop contacting me, I’m not interested, take me off your list. I haven’t forwarded my mail or had my address listed in 20 years because of this too, yet they always seemed to find me. I’m convinced they buy mailing lists just like scammers. Anyway, thank you so much!!
Finally Free, I’m glad to know that, thanks to Mike and Leah, you are finally free! As a former staff member, I helped with call-in and when someone would demand to be taken off the list we would pretend to take their name and address, tell them that their name had been taken off the list, and then put their CF folder aside for the next time. I hated doing this as it was so dishonest. Only if they threatened to call their lawyer or the cops would we cease and desist. I am so glad that I am no longer involved with that organization!
Dr. Jeff Wasel and I are conducting this survey to gather data that will be, I assure you, put to very good use. This is a first-ever attempt to quantify the amount of financial losses people have suffered by Scientology refusing to issue refunds and repayments. Please help this effort by completing the survey.
This is important information as the Church of Scientology told the IRS that it’s policy of issuing refunds and repayments was “exceedingly fair” when in fact, as so many have seen, Scientology has engaged in fraud and lied to the IRS by denying refunds and repayments when requested.
Scientology’s financial fraud is very particular and deliberate form of conspiracy to engage in the theft of unused “monies on account” by, I allege, the use of a calculated and demonstrably fraudulent stratagem approved by Scientology’s board. Thus, the conspirators are easily identifiable as a a group. As the conspirators are licensed by RTC, the co-conspirator in chief, one David Miscavige, is also identifiable and known.
Dr. Jeff Wasel received his Ph.D. from the London School of Economics. A Marine Corps veteran with experience in military intelligence, Dr. Wasel has specialized training in “following the money” in criminal and terrorist organizations. Dr. Wasel and I will be compiling and analyzing the data.
I am also asking that people send me copies of documents, e-mails, cancelled checks, etc. and other written materials related to Scientology’s refusal to issue refunds or repayments. Please send these documents to me via US Mail at:
Jeffrey Augustine
1935 N. Serrano Avenue
Los Angeles, CA 90027
While Scientology can use agents to hack computers, mail theft in the US is a felony. Karen and I have security cameras on our gated property. Our mailbox is on the inside of the gates and is monitored by cameras.
Go go go! Sounds like a plan Stan
I wanted to be done with this church so badly, that when I left the ship with $7,500 still on account, I bought books with it. Books I had no desire to read or sell or give away. I bought them because I wanted no reason for the church to call me back to the ship to get another intensive or do some course or whatever because, I had $7,500 on account. Basically, I knowingly threw it away. Unfortunately, the church still did not leave me alone. Lesson learned: if you want out of the church of scientology, get out. Be honest about it and say “No thanks. I’m done.” Way better.
I’m reminded of Jefferson Hawkins’ header on his website. Classic. A door slightly opened with a light coming through that says, “The Way Out Is The Way Out.”
Thanks Mary. Similar with me when I was retired as a public spy and my bridge money was incomparable to current prices after 4 years. So I had it all transferred to Flag and bought product, except for $300 left, which I asked for and got back in ’87 outside of the Flag Hotel. I had married an SP and they didn’t want the trouble I was prepared to give.
They left me alone, pretty much, till husband passed.
That many books would have made a lovely bonfire. Could have stood in a group around the fire, hand in hand, singing ‘free at last, free at last’.
Didn’t want anyone inhaling the toxic fumes. I broke them all down and threw them into the recycling bin.
I still think we should pulp them and press them into TP..
Perfect!
Memorial Day should be interesting in that it seem A & E is going to run a “special” on Cults & Extreme Religions……I will definitely have cold soda and a snack ready so I don’t miss a thing…should be interesting…but won’t include our “favorite cult”………
If you’re not busy, well, tune in.
It was an easy survey for me. Reminded me how, in 1983/4, when I walked out and cut my communications to them it was a clean cut. I walked away from $760 for the SHSBC and never looked back.
Several years ago my offspring called and asked if I had donated for the 5 boxes of new books they just got from the church. I figured the church burned up that money I had on account. They threw them in the recycling trash on my instructions.
So the materials were debited out of your Advanced Payments without your knowledge and happened to go to an address that at least had an off spring to let you know?
You could still ask for a refund even if just to make a point. Perhaps then when the account is checked they will see the criminal who debited without your OK. But then perhapes by now with such a heavy push on books buy all staff since the basics 2007? they have all gone criminal just to get some sleep 🙁
Cece,
Thanks for the thought, but in fact:
I would happily pay them $760 to keep out of my life. When I walked I knew what I was walking away from. It has been better gooder bester ever since.
The tech was what I loved, and the utter incompetency of the orgs and their attempts to control by force I rejected. They couldn’t let an auditor do auditing without constant interference and micromanagement.
That’s my position, jim. I love the tech but I don’t like the way that the cherch operates.
Let’s also take a look at why Scientology, which used to make some attempt to follow it’s own refund/repayment policy, suddenly pivoted to the new strategy of pretending to offer refunds, but make it factually impossible for people to ever qualify for a refund.
The reason is simple. The churches of Scientology, collectively, used to be inundated with refund and repayment request. Many time the particular church or churches ijnvolved had trouble coming up with the money. This led to numerous suits for refund/repayment, which usually were settled by finally paying the claimant(s), sometimes requiring a bail out from Int Reserves to fund the payout.
Not long after the IRS granted tax exemption, Miscavige and Co. implemented the new policy of making it impossible, due the catch 22 built in to the process, for anyone to get a refund or repayment.
They stopped paying refunds because it was going to break them financially to keep doing so.
Makes no scense that’s the reason. IRS exemption would not stop law suits for unapproved/unpaid refunds. You’d think there would be 47x increase under those circumstances.
Cece, you have to understand how they changed things regarding dealing with refunds/repayments to see that it makes total sense. They told the IRS they refunded/repaid people per the policies in existence. Then, soon after they got exemption from the IRS, they instituted a process whereby anyone that signs up for a service must sign an agreement that they will submit any refund/repayment requests to the Church for arbitration by Scientologists in good standing. If someone actually requests a refund/repayment they are told they must complete the routing form for such requests, which requires them to go into an org, but now orgs will not allow people who have requested refunds into the org, so they can’t complete the routing form. In other words a big catch 22. The fact people agreed to arbitrate refund claims acts as a formidable barrier to filing a lawsuit, as the church waves the signed agreement to arbitrate. If you have been following the Garcia case in Florida, then you will see what I mean – they have made it so hard to successfully litigate a refund claim that most people just won’t due to the time, money and grief involved. So, yes,after telling the IRS one thing, they changed it all to make it impossible to simply get a refund/repayment on request, and to make it extremely difficult to get anywhere with a lawsuit.
Now that makes sense. I likely never read what ever I signed in 2003. I was last in finance around the IRS win. I didn’t realize it changed then even though I didn’t leave staff in 96. Holly cow, now it makes sense – the Garcia case too. Thank you.
If it was going to break them financially then thay should have just stopped fucking people around, and delivered what was promised. Now, I dig.all you cats who say they could never have delivered what they promised. In that case., only promise what you can deliver and then goddamn deliver it. if they had only done that they would have been in clover. Now I dig that the man., meaning LRH, said that we were capable of far more than we were ever permittted to believe. Now I know you (meaning DM) say that you believe LRH to the letter.
I don’t think you do believe in LRH. If you did, you would be worried that all of those people you have fucked over royally, the people robbed so you could go on your diving excursions on the Freewinds ( I was there). or the gag video you made to make other execs look bad (I helped in this) will be back to get justice.
My point is that it is all about finishing cycles of action. If you want me dead you have to take the actions which will get that product.
Surely you can take the responsibility to do that.
You are supposedly the most ethical person on earth. Many live to see the dawn only because YOU allowed it. Your juniors (if there any left) are incompetent or in the HOLE. I am sorry sir, but you are all that is left.
It is YOU who choose Standard Tech or generate shoddy substitutes. It is You who will ask yourself “Did I do right or did I do wrong”?
And, when someone asks about Shelley, you can give the answer I was given by a man. John Michael Napier, Captain Freewinds, that screamed ar me that
He was THE ONLY Right Arm ranked Captain in the SO.
That must mean that he outranks you., doesn’t it?
Anyway, he screamed at me “I DON’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT FAMILY”.
As LRH is gone now., I imagine that SO members work to emulate you.
Anyway, the Captain Freewins seems to think that he outranks you, COB., or at least that you are his puppet. He apparantly got you to to countermand my wife (Alison William’s LOA, approved by ED INT.
(She sent me a copy with his signature on the “Approved” line.
She wanted to come and save my life after the Captain told her, in his office. Well I’m sorry Alison but Bill is going to die. There is nothing we can do for.him, so you should be a good staff member and continue doing your post,.”
I am sure that you are the only one who could have nixed an order in writing from ED INT. And perhaps Mike Napier is the only one who could have gotten you to do that. Now, I have nothing personally against you, sir. That you and/or your juniors took almost effective action to end my life is not that big a deal to me.
It was a brilliant series of events which were clearly aimed to end my life and the Dev-T which may have gotten on your lines. I would have been hard-pressed to find a better plan.
But then, you are too senior an executive to be concerned with the death of one staff member. That is why you have juniors.
Well, I am sorry to have to tell you, sir that some of your juniors are not as competent as you thought.
You may have to get them started on digging a bigger hole to house those execs.
I would join them., but I have already paid for my cremation.
All that is missing is for you and your juniors to show some real competence and balls.
I hope you have good days. I sent an email to Mike to please send you mine but I may have done it wrong. My contact info is with my avitar.
Refund Request Line, Flag, and Class V org – – – “Being On Source”
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your post brings something to mind that someday I’d willingly read about, how Flag’s whole rep and PR line is about how much they are On Source, are The Mecca, have the tech to Crack Cases, and so on, and how it’s the opposite to the truth even in Scn.
Flag has ALWAYS been promoted as the BEST place to get REAL scientology, done right.
…
whereas my own personal experience gave me tons of fodder for cognitive dissonance:
At Flag it’s impossible to get your money back on RR lines, but a Class V org just follows the policy and gives it to you.
At Flag, you can’t get an FSM commission for your spouse due to how they apply the words, “cross FSMing” no husband or wife can get a commission ever. Not even if you got them in years ago and then later married them. Class V orgs and even CC and AOLA gave commissions one way. The policy was written so that a husband could not get a commission on a wife at the same time the wife was getting a commission for the husband, it did not disallow a one-way selection.
Flag does not give FSM commissions easily. If you have an FSM who had routinely just submitted the slip and gotten the commission from Class V orgs or other SO orgs, Flag will make them jump through hoops to prove that you were a lost soul away from SCN and the FSM has personally salvaged you with tons of actions to surmount your objections and gotten you to like SCN again and arrive for service.
Flag removed and threw away all Tech Vols and OES vols, Admin Dics, Tech dics, everything not GAT 2 during the release of GAT 2. All other orgs kept using these resources. They threw away all regular dictionaries and outlawed all but a few they now embraced. In the Flag course rooms the only materials were GAT 2, this went for the Qual library too. Nothing remained in the Flag Building Flag Master Library except for GAT 2 materials. (buh-bye, Ron) It’s impossible to clear words unless it’s in the back of your book or course pack.
If you’ve ever studied at a Class V org and then studied at Flag, you have experienced the quickie drills. “you got it, right? right? you did it twice correctly so obviously you got it, why are you asking for more practice???” The worst training in the world I ever got was at Flag. The sups push you to sign off and comp your checksheet item as soon as you’ve done it. If you say you want more practice because one time wasn’t enough to make you feel fully competent, you get alllllll kinds of grief and it means that you’re dramatizing case or worse. The sups were scornful and you have to dig in pretty hard if you want to actually feel good about a drill.
The Secret to How Flag gets such fast results is that…….they quickie.
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Flag does not give FSM commissions for OT VII. After you have selected someone and they do 6 A,B,C, that’s it. They come back for 6 month checks and have to buy intensives for the check? No commish. The 6 month C/Sing charge? No commish. The bazillion intensives needed to do EP checks? no Commish. Talk to the FSM I/C and ask what gives and you’ll walk away with an awful convoluted BS explanation and no avenue to bitch – if you KR – it oh boy! Guess what YOUR next 6 month check will take!
,,,,,,,,,,
I always left Flag with the feeling of, “PUSH….. FAST….. DONE”
…………………….
So what do you bet that you can still ask for a RR from your local class V org and get that refund? Whereas Flag does what it wants to.
…..
In Class V orgs we used to dream about how Perfect Life Would BE at Flag. The training, the auditing, the handlngs… everything would be So On Source!!
I think most people leave Flag with a huge sense of relief.
What year were the books emptied? I can’t imagine having to read without dictionaries. Do they use Google on their laptops? In early 2000s at CLO WUS my husband used his laptop on course. I was buying him dictionary programs he downloaded from some guy that had a website with the LRH approved dictionarys. He was able to get online too because he had an email address from my Earthlink account since 1997.
I’d be interested to know the year. Glad you are out ?
The books were removed the night before GAT 2 release. – November 2013. There was the weekend of events of opening the Super Power Building (Flag Building) release of Super Power and Cause Resurg, and then all the GAT line up of training through class 4, TRS, Student Hat, the whole thing.
The next day, after the training releases, the course rooms had all been fully gutted, all the books were gone except for the basics and new course packs and some “approved” regular dictionaries. You were no longer allowed to bring your own English dictionary, you had to use the ones in the course room.
The Tech Dics were gone, the Admin dics, all the Tech vols, and so on.
The rooms were set up with the new simulators and the new recording things. (yay, I forgot what it was called and I won’t even try to remember.)
They threw away people’s personal dictionaries stored in the locker area. (a couple months later they threw away all the Quantum meters people had left and stored at Flag. Hundreds of Flag public apparently kept extra meters there or something. I saw them and saw them go)
………
no laptops are ever allowed in the course room.
They took out the computers that had access to “SIR” the computer program where you could look up everything.
It was chaos in so many ways.
They even removed the KTL dictionary, no more looking up small common words in that. They didn’t even allow that in the SRD course room. Nice, trying to clear small words with a PC in session without that.
…..
the confidential course rooms only had the regular OT material stuff and a set of the basics. Flag had been using the “pilot dictionary” for years and years like other SO orgs, these were temporary binders of the pilot dictionary and they were used instead of the tech dic and admin dic, as they were “more on source” with no BTB refs and stuff. But the course rooms had HAD the tech and admin dics there to use, and the OEC/TEC vols so you could look up things referred to in your materials.
All of this was gone. The only thing left was a set of the basics with their shoddy incomplete glossaries in the back. When we began to study and began to ask where to find definitions, the sups were just f*cked. The ONLY thing the sups could do was to tell you to look through all the glossaries in all the basic books on the shelf and hope that that what you needed was defined in one of them. And since the glossaries were written specifically for the material in the basic book, these were useless. The OT courses weren’t updated for what, a year or two?
I’ve been hiding away for a bit of time now so I don’t know what it’s like just right now. 🙂
Incredible post, RVW. What a “Mecca of Technical Perfection” Flog became that night! Beyond the beyond! The worst, the very worst place to study! As someone who enjoyed my courses, back in the day at my little org, I’m shuddering, and at the same time furious, and at the same time deeply thankful I never had the time, or else the money (and sometimes both) to go to Flag!
I tell ya, it was tricky to Get My Mind Right during all of this. It was …. a stretch….
For me, from the outset, Scn was mind-blowingly perfect/amazing fun and also terror/horror/find-your-steel-or-die all or nothing ride. Through 4 decades I weathered changes and adapted my mind so I could keep the faith of getting to OT.
The last Hurrah of GAT 2 was right after a particularly difficult time for me personally, then came GAT 2, then came much worse and it all fell apart.
Suffice to say, I’m glad I was there for it and for all the hell after. Without that I wouldn’t have shattered …and thus… been reborn!
It took A LOT. and every day is worth it.
…..
and these days….oh..but I laugh at “Flag” and its perfection. It’s ridiculous in itself and it’s a lie to boot! It’s not even a real fantasy.
If your selectee refunds, the Flag Banking Officer will demand you pay back the FSM commission. It happened to me.
That must have been awful. You’re just stuck, can’t fight back or you’ll get in all kinds of trouble. I would want to argue that they failed to deliver and I’d have a zillion references to back it up, starting with KSW 1, (the only thing you can be upbraided for is…”) …. and by doing so …I’d get creamed and end up dead ..right.
What did you end up doing?
Brilliant.
I hope the data becomes a tidal wave.
I will not be able to do the survey due to fear of anyone finding out that we are OUT and under the radar
We trust no one
We are reading the clever tactics OSA used to find disaffected members
We are very good at pretending we are still in
We can even beat the meter
We will tell you this
Scientology is TOTAL rip off scam
We would like to get all of our money back based on the FACT Scientology lies, deceived and tricks people out of slave labor and money
We went bankrupt “doing “ Scientology and being Scientologists
No more
Yep.
Me too. Except for the bankrupt part. I started amassing money AFTER scn.
….
Best wishes to you.
“Except for the bankrup part, I started amassing money AFTER scn.”
Me too! And I’d always made decent money. Yet for 27 years in the cult I was always just barely getting by! Because, “its not what you make, but what you get to keep”.
Immediately, and I do mean “immediately” after going UTR (in my heart I was out, but I had to ease on down the road so as not to arouse suspicion) I stopped being broke and haven’t been broke since!
And I didn’t leave because of money, per se, but because of huge outpoints I observed in my org – off polocy, out tech – outpoints I shared with staff that they essentially denied or outright ignored, which is denial.
Anyway, leaving took a weight off me. A suppression? Not sure what it was but being out I feel a difference and SEE a difference in my financilal bottom line!
Since leaving, not once have I been broke or stressed about money. I’m financially comfortable (becoming rich was never a goal of mine and still isn’t) I never worry about money anymore, and I pretty much have whatever I need, if not everything I might immediately want..
“The Way Out Is The Way Out”. Definitely!
And, Traveler, thanks for sharing. I totally got it. Just keep on keeping on and you and your family WILL come thru this and come out on top! We’re all rooting for you!
Same here, Aqua! Like I said before, I was broke the whole time I was on staff and it was Goodwill Industries that got me back to solvency!
Weird, isn’t it?
LOL, Alcoboy. I hear you 🙂
A confession though: I still go to Goodwill. Browsing there for an hour or 2 can be fun. Crockery, old paperback books, costume jewelry sometimes, etc…Last Sunday I found a tan velvet jacket there in great for just $12! Too heavy to wear now but just what I’ll need for fall! But with its crowds and lines of dedicated shoppers, people who go there each day, eagle-eyeing and grabbing the quality stuff from the junk, wandering around Goodwill and finding a bargain is fun now because I don’t have to shop there!
Well, Aqua, all I can say to that is thank you for supporting Goodwill.
Ok, well, Alco, verbal appreciation is nice and all, but where is my tee shirt? A pin, a plaque – something! Put in a word for me. Status is everything.
Aquamarine, I really like reading what you have to say about scientology. I have never been in scientology but i do work for what I understand to be the biggest remaining “whale” in the US. It is without question the most fucked up place I have ever worked in my life. And if I turn up dead you all know why. LOL but not really…I am fucking scared to be honest.
BOLO – thank you. I’m glad for whatever good my off-the-cuff stuff about the cult does anyone. That said, you’ve got me going now: when you say, “…I am fucking scared to be honest” do you mean you are literally firightened? Are you scared that if you quit that this Scn whale would have OSA come after you? Look, I don’t know your situation and I’ll assume that you work for person because it pays well and/or pays something, and you need the job. Without knowing anything else I would say that you should stay with us on this blog and at work, keep your head down and do your job, don’t engage too much with anyone there while at the same time appearing to be polite and helpful and friendly, and, in your spare time, put out feelers for another job, OR if you’re not trained for anything else, start taking some courses so as to be trained. If you have never been a Scientologist I’d say you are safer. The law prevents your Scientologist whale employer from forcing you to take Scientology courses. Sttay alert, be pleasant but don’t actually say much unless its job related cause no waves, do your job and give your boss his “products” and start actively looking for another job. When you find one, give your boss proper notice and offer to help train the new person. Again, without knowing anything, that would be my advice. If you need/want any further support I don’t think Mike would mind, and he can give you my personal email as I’m UTR (under the radar) Also, it just occurred to me: you might want to keep a LOG for yourself (a little notebook that you keep on your person) and last but not least, do NOT do anything like following an order that you know or even suspect is illegal. Remember, you’re an employee doing a job. There’s noting wrong or illegal about that! Just make sure you always follow the law in your job, and if you’re not sure, QUERY IT,. There’s nothing wrong with asking your employer (or anyone) if what you’re being ordered to do is legal! Hope this helps.
ALSO BOLO: Someone else may jump in here with further advice, something I haven’t thought of. It may contradict what I’ve said. I don’t know. But you should consider it anyway and decide what to do based on your own knowledge of your own situation.
You may just be scared because now you know what this cult is capable of, and not because you yourself as a never in employee of this whale is in any actual danger. Hell, I would be! But again, I don’t know so read everything here. Though scared, you’re stillbetter off knowing!
Isn’t it fun? Isn’t it cool what money can buy? And how LITTLE it takes?
I was staff for decades and amassed just enough of a cushion to sleep at night. Shopped thrift and felt guilty for spending money on “things”.
Then I was public and all my money went to OT levels. Mentally I was always calculating what it would cost to secure training through class VIII, L’s, Super Power, 9 & 10, for myself and spouse.
All future monies for a long time were already earmarked. (I refused to donate to ideal nonsense and IAS status) (I have the KRs)
It’s SO much fun to NOT have this as a plan. It’s SO fun to own my money and see how far it goes.
I look back to the days of 8 grand intensives for the next 6 month check…. and I just shake my head and dance with delight that it’s over.
(And I still enjoy thrift shops)
Thanks to Tom Cruise, my impression of scientology was that it was mostly kinda nutty, but Aftermath showed me that it is extortionate. I’m careful with my money, but I too have spent large amounts on things I hoped would help me or my family. I can see how easily and quickly a person could get sucked down the rabbit hole. Awful.
Thank you, will forward it to other friends.
This is marvelous.
Thanks for linking and helping it. I hope that it later gets used to change things.
..
I was well trained in Admin and believed everything – thus I fully believed that the refund policy was applied and used as intended. It’s only now that I’m out and reading All The Bad Stuff that I now get to know about the damage, the lying and BS.
The RR line was simple and seemed fair. It wasn’t much used during my time on staff but where it was needed it was an effective tool to “get the entheta off our lines”.
We didn’t like giving money back, but we liked continuing enturbulation from entheta sources much less, and we didn’t need the threat of bad PR, just give the SP’s/PTSes their money back, and we could continue to flourish and prosper.
All that – cult speak – full accepted and believed. It was simply part of our ethics and justice policies.
…….
The way they screw with the line now, and how they twist it just pisses me off to no end. Cheap lying bastards. Back when I was in charge of things at my org, we’d have never have done it this way.
If I didn’t have to be UTR I’d love to take my opinions and knowledge on the road. Gimme a soapbox.
….
Thanks.
(I’m happy that I have under ten Gs on account – I’ve kissed it off as a necessity to keep my life, but if things ever change I would gladly ask for it back)
RVW,
Good job on only having 10k or so on the line.
“If I didn’t have to be UTR I’d love to take my opinions and knowledge on the road. Gimme a soapbox.”
I didn’t get why you HAD to be but I understand choosing to be UTR for fear of loss of family. I chose not to be and did lose my family. The odd part was that even if I had gone UTR, my family was already gone. Because I was a ‘tight wad’ on donos and also refused to relocate to a town close to the cult, the cherch had convinced my wife that I was disaffected and she was the one who needed to ‘step up’ and do the right thing.
Meanwhile my daughter had joined the SO at the urging of her cousin who was also in the SO. Getting LOA’s to visit family during holidays was never an approved activity and maybe occurred one or two times in 15 years. So in reality very little has changed for me as a result of being declared. And my daughter knows exactly where to find me if she needs something.
I think the biggest risk in speaking out is that the cherch can and will use it against me. OSA can show my daughter all of the bad things I say about the cherch and that ‘PROVES’ how bad I am. And knowing that I will continue to speak the truth about the cult until it is gone.
I do find some measure of comfort not being in fear of the cult or whatever their latest reprisal scheme may be. But it saddens me to know what the still-ins have to endure each and every day, especially those young kids who started at an early age and know nothing different.
I hope someday you can take your opinions and knowledge on the road …. with the soapbox!
Yo Dave,
How was Orlando’s magic? Yuge crowds and deafening cheers for ya good buddy?
“I do find some measure of comfort not being in fear of the cult or whatever their latest reprisal scheme may be.”
And so you should.
Lots of comfort!
They shut off their Love Spigot because you insisted on this most basic human right, the right of any any free being in a free society to live as he sees fit.
You are loved with the stipulation of unfailing obedience to the whims and caprices of your religion.
Failure to obey means your family’s love is immediately withdrawn..
Failure to obey means that Miscavige’s heel descends immediately on your neck.
What kind of “love” did you actually lose?
PS: “OSA can show my daughter all the bad things I say about the cherch and that “PROVES” how bad I am”.
Right now, yes.
Nonetheless, If I were you I would PRAY that they DO show your daughter the stuff you write about the cherch!
Because ONE day it will PROVE to her how GOOD you are.
YOU don’t have to afraid to be who you are!
YOU have the truth on your side!
The ones who deserve to be VERY afraid are THEM.
But they’re not up to that level of awareness yet
But learning the truth is in their future and one way or another there is no avoiding it, they will learn and have to confront it.
That is THEIR future.
I’m sorry for all that you have gone through, it’s so sad and wrong. We joined Scn with such wondrous sparkling dreams and goals.
The only thing Scientology delivers in stellar fashion is total and absolute betrayal.
Thanks for being here with us.
The $cieno smokescreen about ‘refunds’ is one of its Achilles heels. There was a time ( and perhaps now too) where payouts from all of the ‘monies on account for future services’ would have bankrupted the local mOrgs.
There were so many instances of unauthorized withdrawals from those accounts for sales of the Basics and other things that I fear most ex-$cienos just abandoned their accounts. That ‘issue’ is one that screams for a class action suit.
Great idea!
Yeah!
Good. It’s about time this lie was documented and quantified.
Really hope the survey gets good participation. I think it’s a great idea to quantify the data and disprove COS claims.