Though I commented on this in my post of yesterday, I wanted to highlight the insanity of the scientology response to the new season’s first episode while it is hot off the press (Thursday Funnies are on hiatus for a week).
In a word. Lame.
Their “defense” for child abuse is:
We found three people who knew Saina when she was a child and she didnt mention she had been sexually molested — yes and I found 5 people who knew Jeffrey Dahmer and they said he never told them he had killed and eaten people. So it didn’t happen apparently.
What they DIDN’T “find” was Mirriam or Saina’s mother — even though they are TOTALLY under the control of scientology as Sea Org members. They trot out everyone else’s family members to make their POW videos? How come their mothers are silent and invisible and are not denying that the events described by Mirriam and Saina ever happened?
Their 3 “testifiers” also say Mike Rinder and Leah Remini “definitely” “got to” Saina and Mirriam. How do they know this? OT powers at work perhaps?
We closed these places down, so nothing to see here — perhaps the only demonstrably true response. Though of course they do not address whether the abuses (sure is hard to deny those photos of the ranch with the child labor and punishments clearly in evidence). This is sort of like saying “the concentration camps are closed now, so nothing to worry about” EXCEPT the culture that allowed that to happen in the first place is still in place. And that we all know that scientology CANNOT change the writings of L. Ron Hubbard. So they are set in their ways, cleaning glass with wet newspaper and sending out telexes.
This is a vicious campaign of bigotry intended to stir up hate against scientology — “in this time of Charlottesville” — right. ALWAYS blame the victims while assuming the victim position yourself. Here we have the wife beater complaining his wife is “ruining his reputation” and “turning his friends against him” by telling people he beats her. In the scientology world, every victim of their abuse is a liar, and they are all bigots and haters for talking about their EXPERIENCES. Of course, scientology never addresses any specifics. They name-call — “bigots”, “liars”, “apostates”, “haters” etc — and somehow hope this will invalidate the sources of information.
There are 500 confirmed incidents of hate crimes that have been generated against scientology — but they don’t offer any proof of anything. The specifics they alluded to were proven to be false (see article here)
This is all being done for money — as with all other contributors to The Aftermath, neither Mirriam nor Saina was paid anything to appear. They did not choose to bare their souls on national TV as a gag, or to become famous (if anyone thinks someone wants to be famous for being the victim of sexual assault, you would be dumber than dirt). They, like all the other victims, speak out because they want to prevent OTHERS from experiencing what they experienced.
Again, because I consider it so important to keep reminding everyone of the POLICY of scientology — here is the scientology playbook on how to deal with “critics.”
I am in awe of the bravery You, and Leah and the Survivors baring their pain bring in the forfront. Thank you, thank you. I dont care if you guys did pay them for their testimony. I dont care if you guys were making money hand over foot.
IT DOESNT MATTER.
What matters is that these testimonies are told. Period.
Saving others from the inevietable fate of remaining in the “church” is what truly matters.
Season 2 is remarkable.
Thank you.
Hi Courtney I have a cousin with this same name , her mother was Betty-Lou and grandmother Lyla Howson ” my aunt” wonder if your her?
My daughter is the same age. My heart breaks at how they are treated. No family and no childhood and no educaton. Its modern slavery. Their bravery speaks volumes.
I am blown away by this new episode. This is just huge, on so many levels. Thank you so much for giving those brave survivors a voice and the means to make a difference for others.
Scientology’s whinning falls on deaf ears. Are they related to 45? (the president??)
They both whine an act like 2 year olds…….sigh.
Thank you. Thanks to both you and Leah, and Mirriam and Saina, and Mary and her hubby, and Lowie and Gary, and all the journalists, and Paulette, and Claire and Mark, and Aaron and every brave person on your show and on the crew and in your lives. Thank you for saying what so many if us have been too afraid to say. You have our love, support and gratitude.
Thank you Saina and all of you here for your incredible courage coming forward.
If you haven’t already done so, you may view some statistics here:
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
Also according to the CDC, if a person is sexually abused in childhood, they are two to three times more likely to have it happen repeatedly later in life!! Statistics at the link below.
http://www.ibiblio.org/rcip/mvrv.html
So it’s not just like something that happens in childhood and we don’t move on with our lives…. There’s much more to it as the evidence illustrates above.
The Cult’s practice of victim blaming while protecting the criminal makes it all that much more traumatic.
There should be a special place in hell for them and as well, stringent laws with stiff penalties for that.
Mike and Leah, can you ask the attorney from the Ask Me pt. 2 episode if a class action is possible?
I was molested when I was a young boy in a music store. One of the guys in the shop took my hand and put it on his penis. He said he could take me to nice places on Saturday and give me money. I was so shocked that I just run away but I never told my parents about it. When I was 14, a woman who was 32 kissed me in my sister’s room during a party at my parents’ and the way she pushed her crotch against me was very explicit. During a trip with my grand father I took a bus and once the other passengers were gone the driver tried to rape me. I must have been ten or eleven at the time, I managed to escape, but I’ll never forget the way he looked at me and came after me. One of my cousins was abused by a catholic priest when he was a child and he told me, but he never told his parents or anyone else. Female friends have told me about being abused or raped and most of them never talked to their parents about it. A female friend told me she wouldn’t leave her daughters at her parents. She had been abused by her own father and she had never told anyone about it. Not even her own husband. Sexual abuse does happen but the victims are often helpless. They have no experience, they are overwhelmed and they are ashamed. What. Can a little boy do against a priest who is one of the vips of the community? What can a little girl do about the man who abused her? Not much, and in the warped world of Scientology there are no victims. If it happened it’s your fault. You pulled it in!
I’m so sorry thats happened to you! I can’t imagine. I think scientology is evil to blame victims!Especially victims of sex abuse! For some reason its a stigma to speak about it & that’s absurd to me! And cults,religion’s & anyone else who doesn’t take action & blames the victims makes this worse! I don’t understand it! And for these children not to be able to go to their parents is ridiculous! If this ever happened to my daughter that person would end up dead! Sorry I’m ranting. I just wanted to say I’m so sorry this awful things happened to you & that you can talk about it! You have no reason to be embarrassed & I hope you have someone you can talk to! Thank you for your courage!
Mike, while trying to find your blog I found the COS smear campaign about you first. Had to laugh even though it’s not funny. Saina and Mirriam’s stories broke my heart! I’m sending love to both of them!
Mike, have you or Leah been able to help anyone who wants out of this crazy organization?
(CNN)Production on the latest installment of the “Mission: Impossible” franchise is on hold as star Tom Cruise recovers from an ankle injury sustained on set, the film’s studio confirms to CNN.
“During production on the latest ‘Mission: Impossible’ film, Tom Cruise broke his ankle while performing a stunt,” Paramount said in a statement to CNN.
I thought that when you reached a certain level in the cult you were able to not get injured or sick?
I am confused how this actor, who is so high up inside the religion has this injury???
Well OT V or VII is BS but SP power is real. Mike has achieved a least SP VIII by now and Tom Cruise fell PTS!!!
“Well OT V or VII is BS but SP power is real. Mike has achieved a least SP VIII by now and Tom Cruise fell PTS!!!”
Haha, I would rather put Mike at “Class XII SP”, and Tom Cruise is “connected” to him through “invisible beams of energy” (like the ones allegedly “handled” on L12), so he went “PTS at-a-distsnce” and got injured. But nothing that a “tailor-made” Super Power Repair program can’t handle, 🙂
The real truth is that I know someone who can demonstrate astonishing OT abilities at will (which makes me pretty cool, no?)
You know those OT Successes where those people find parking spaces just when and where they need them?
Well, that game has been stepped up to Super Power levels. My friend has a Handicapped Parking tag. Amazing that whenever I am with him we get parking spots right in front of the door. It is effortless. It is repeatable and observable. It is truly OT.
“Well, that game has been stepped up to Super Power levels. My friend has a Handicapped Parking tag. Amazing that whenever I am with him we get parking spots right in front of the door. It is effortless. It is repeatable and observable. It is truly OT.”
🙂
Yeah, isn’t it truly amazing! 🙂
lmao!
This video is proof of the OT Powers!
https://youtu.be/J94uO-urSTg
Only problem is, the guy never did any Scientology… 😉
Ha! I love your sense of humor 🙂
Just how does “the organization” get a 12 year old to sign a “Billion Year Contract” & even think that any type of so called “legal document” signed by a MINOR would be LEGAL??
Balletlady, it isn’t a legal document. See contract laws for more info as to the legal ingredients of a civil contract.
Couple things on contract law.
Parties must enter into contract willingly and knowingly. A minor cannot consent to a contract.
A contract, to be valid, must include consideration. That is – something of value is exchanged for something of value. What consideration is given by scientology in exchange for the billion years of service? Well, watch Aftemath and you tell me. A judge would have a field day just reviewing the SO contract in the context of consideration.
So a minor cannot enter into an SO contract legally, therefore, SCN cannot assess a freeloaders debt, legally. If you’re a minor…walk away. You will owe them nothing.
Thank you #1 Son…..THAT was my point exactly…..Thing is the organization it seems wants to hold even MINORS responsible for aby debts they incur. It’s a SCARE tactic as in , YOU will OWE us $$$$$ if you try to leave/quit/walk away…
I remember this from business law class.
IRS Commissioner John Koskinen: We Demand the IRS Commissioner Begin an Investigation into Scientology’s Tax Exempt Status – Sign the Petition!
https://www.change.org/p/irs-commissioner-john-koskinen-we-demand-the-irs-commissioner-begin-an-investigation-into-scientology-s-tax-exempt-status?recruiter=48040674&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=share_petition
I have just contributed $100 to make sure this petition gets seen by more people…please consider doing the same (obviously only do what you can afford. thank you)
Mike – I hope you are ok with this i.e. Using your Blog to support the petition. This is not my petition but certainly worth supporting. (I noted it through Indie Scientology on Twitter, via my business Twitter Account and have also retweeted accordingly). Thank you.
This is a well written petition and if for no other reason, to show how many free will people will sign this form unlike the sheeple in $cn signing the ‘Stop Aftermath’ petition. While I am not sure either of these Internet petitions will see the light of day when sent to the authorities, it may be a gauge of how many individuals feel strongly about this issue.
I have added my name to this petition earlier this morning.
Thank you for spreading this petition. Maybe it should be included that the Church of Scientology exploits its tax-exempt status by operating as an international real estate business exempt from property taxes, buying commercial real estate and calling them “churches” but left empty or nearly empty for years, then resold?
Also, that the “fixed donations” of Scientology or any other church should be deemed unconstitutional as an actual cost for commercial services, rather than a donation,
The exploitation of children and foreigners for slave labor is to support a commercial enterprise by avoiding business and labor laws regarding the treatment and payment of employees.
The illegal lending of money with interest for profit by rich Scientologists to newcomers in collusion with the organization and the payment of commissions (10%) to those who solicit such fixed financial donations from newcomers and others.
I signed the petition
Signed!
You know, I’ve always admired those who have been exposing the abuses of the CofS for decades, especially what Mike and Leah are doing on a much broader scale. “The Aftermath” is to date, IMHO, the best “Deliver an effective blow” strategy ever devised.
But having been a witness myself of this long fight for many years, and having studied in great detail the history of the anti-Scientology movement, I can’t help it but wonder if perhaps there is an approach that hasn’t been tried as yet.
When I see the “no results” in terms of initiatives from the authorities (from both the government and the police agencies) to do something against Scn as Human Rights abuses is concerned, I begin to wonder if continuing to expose the abuses is enough. The “First Amendment” barrier (which in itself is formidable), the lack of resources and political will from the IRS to do anything, and the “statute of limitation” dilemma, leaves very little room in terms of effective strategies. And this without even mentioning the huge amount of legal resources from the CofS, and the fact that they have enough reserves to last a few decades.
I think that perhaps attempting to arrive at a dialogue where a mediation (using a neutral party to bring it about) can occur which could create some awareness of how their methods will finally make the church to disappear (even if in a future not so close), and how the tactics of yesterday doesn’t apply to today’s world, might achieve something that has never been achieved before in terms of reformation. I think that it is worth trying it.
Of course, to do this, one necessarily have to become neutral and friendly in our approach to them so as to even be allowed to participate in any kind of private meeting with them. Perhaps someone can help them to design some kind of a PR strategy to gain at least some public support. A general amnesty perhaps, where all the Disconnection orders can be cancelled and where families be allowed to reunite again. And a sort of “RJ68” broad issue as well, but for real. I for one, would be very much willing to help them with this, If this means to bring the disconnected families together again.
I would be willing to work with them. In fact, I think that I will attempt that approach myself. There is no hurt in trying it, is there? Faith can work wonders sometimes!
Sounds good. Just remember the HCOPL.
“Tipping one”s hat to snakes never stopped anyone from being bitten. Walking away has”.
Perhaps it would do.some good to push the true idea that those in law enforcement who fail to do their jobs and stop the abuses are accessories and should get the same penalties as the actual offenders (Once the offenders receive justice).
The “handling” of let’s just increase punishment for everybody as a “solution” to crime, has NEVER been workable, Dead Men Tell No Tales Bill Straass. One good look at the statistics is enough to understand that. The real solution lies in correct education since very early childhood, a through review of our academic agendas at school, and a legal system based upon REAL rehabilitation and reformation instead of upon punishment. The idea that putting someone behind bars solves anything, is actually a very silly notion. The amount of people behind bars who are actually not a menace to anyone, who are rehabilitable, and who are really sorry for their actions, are A LOT. I’ve seen totally broken souls (my brother who took his life at the end) when they got out of jail, but I’ve seldom seen a rehabilitated soul when they came out. What I DID saw were people being stereotyped and marginalized by this “ethical” society. A bunch of moralists who have their own closets full of “dead bodies”, who then claim for “justice” in the form of more abuses.
I agree with you. As long as the crims are not just allowed to continue.
Bill that won’t work. The SCotUS has already ruled that it is NOT the responsibility of law enforcement to protect citizens from criminals. That was in response to a lawsuit against a state that had violated the 2nd amend by stopping people from bearing arms (NY I think) and wasn’t having police protect unarmed people from criminals.
Idiots who vote for people who are anti Bill of Rights are stupid beyond belief.
You are correct, Wynski, the police have no legal obligation to respond, or to protect. Sad but true.
Bill,
So often we condemn or criticize law enforcement for not doing something, when in reality all they may do is enforce the law.
I’ve sat with police chiefs and watch commanders to discuss an ongoing, systemic problem in my community and they share that there is no cause, power or penalty under the law through which they can address the specific issue. And they are reticent to influence and pass laws themselves. What they will do is discuss community input and issues with legislators and let the legislators do their work.
Many of the issues surrounding college rape are out of the hands of local police due to jurisdictional controls. The victim must put it in the hands of the authorities. They have to report off campus. So when Saina and Mirriam made a direct police report, THAT is one of the most effective things they can do. I was so happy to see that part of the show.
As for us, we must do as Mike mentions in Season 1. Write your congressman. Write your local legislators. The New Zealand reporter who shared the story of the brave legislator giving public testimony (protected speech) on the floor of the legislature about Scientology. The end result was the charity test legislation, which lost SCN it’s non-profit status in NZ.
We must do that in the U.S. Petitions to the IRS without a change of law just further solidify SCNs position. We need a way to disqualify them.
Yes, you are right. Thabk you
“Sounds good. Just remember the HCOPL ‘Tipping one’s hat to snakes never stopped anyone from being bitten. Walking away has’.”
Thanks, Dead Men Tell No Tales Bill Straass, and I hear you. But sometimes there are babies among the snakes that need to be saved, so getting bitten is an expected part of the plan, 😉 The good thing is that I have grown a very think skin over the years, 🙂
I hear you, but it will be a cold day in Hell before I am “Neutral” or “Friendly” to child molesters.
“I hear you, but it will be a cold day in Hell before I am “Neutral” or “Friendly” to child molesters.”
I hear you, Dead Men Tell No Tales Bill Straass, but calling the CofS “child molesters” is too big of a jump, and it is actually an inaccurate description and a big generalization. By your logic, no one should ever put a foot inside a Catholic church, or in ANY church, for that matter. That’s just appealing to emotions, which seldom is very workable in diplomatic missions.
Isolated instances over the decades, doesn’t make an organization a “child molester”. I was a staff member for several years, and I’ve been in Scn (no longer since quite a while) since the ’80s. And in all that time, I saw no instances of child molestation. And I’ve read Janis Gillham Grady’s book (one of the original 4 Commodore Messengers who was actually there with LRH for a decade), and even though that she did mentioned a few incidents having to do with some form of sexual abuse, this was very far from being a situation there. I mean, LRH would just has never approved of such a thing.
With my assertions, I am not trying to imply in any way, shape or form, that just ONE incident isn’t enough to DO something effective about it, and take measures to make sure it does not happen. As in any cults or religions, some crazy fuckers get onboard, and they can get very “fundamentalistically” lunatics. Then some these things can happen. But they are not necessarily inherent to the Scn philosophy itself. The “relationship” that Leah tried to establish between Scn’s view of children as “old thetans in young bodies” and child molestation, isn’t an accurate one, IMHO, no matter how good her intentions were, which are pretty damn good; she is marvelous!
Treating children as adults in young bodies, yes, that was part of the Scn culture back then, which was misguided to say the least. But the biggest part of that treatment was directed – at least by most public Scientologists – as a way to treat children with respect by granting them some beingness and the opportunity to have their own mind about things. The problem mostly occurred at SO level, but only a few instances over the years, at the class V or Mission level, and on the public lines.
And I can understand the non punitive approach from religions to criminal actions. A church is supposed to seek rehabilitation and healing for all the parties involved, and not an ineffective punishment. Every case needs to be independently evaluated. In many cases, help and rehabilitation is possible for BOTH, the victim and the perpetrator. And it the case of families, this could mean a family that has been brought together again, healed from past wounds, which to me is more important than playing to be “judges and executioners” ourselves. Using the legaI “logic” of some people, why should the mothers or fathers who just abandoned their kids on the SO not be put in jail for child abuse? I bet that they are going to come up with lame excuses, “I was under the Undue Influence of a cult”, “I was a victim of LRH”, and blah, blah, yawn, Zzzzzzzzz, excuses, excuses.
Unfortunately, this isn’t a “white and black” world. Correct judgment, mercifulness, correct justice and rehabilitation is part of the whole handling.
What I DON’T APPROVE of, is not doing something EFFECTIVE to prevent ANY kind of abuses, and not doing something EFFECTIVE about any abuse once it has occurred. But by “doing something EFFECTIVE” it doesn’t necessarily mean, let’s just put someone in jail. That would depend on many factors, one of them being the actual dangerousness of the person to others, whether the person in question is really sorry for what he/she has done, and really wants to seek rehabilitation, whether or not the victim would agree to that, etc, etc. And of course, in the magnitude of the crime. My point is, that a church isn’t supposed to choose punishment as the first alternative possible. Personally, I would never put a foot in a church whose first choice is punishment. That would defeat the social role of a church in society.
I agree with you completely. My charge is mainly the Church’s denial of the problem.
I tried this several times by calling Miscavige’s attorney Monique Yingling and asking her to pass on a message to Miscavige that I would help with a mediation to bring about a peaceful resolution to all the complaints from the “outsiders” and asked for a meeting with him or others so we could discuss this idea as the bad PR was getting worse for the church and we could handle this….. Monique Yingling basically said that the “noise” on the outside was of no consequence to the church, it had no effect to them and they will continue doing well regardless. She said they had no interest in meeting nor discussing anything. I attempted several times and this was always the response. My next plan was to write letters but it would have to be very cleverly done or they will continue to ignore. This is how Miscavige is, he will bow down to no one and his locking people up and other crimes would be exposed if he opened this door. That is the problem we would have to overcome.
Thanks for sharing your experience on this line of handling, Terri, and my respect to you for having tried that method with them.
“My next plan was to write letters but it would have to be very cleverly done or they will continue to ignore.”
And there is exactly where I am very good at! 🙂
“This is how Miscavige is, he will bow down to no one and his locking people up and other crimes would be exposed if he opened this door. That is the problem we would have to overcome.”
I have already thought in all that, Terri, and of course that I can’t discuss my strategies publicly in detail, because it would defeat my purpose. But suffice to say, that such a strategy has to include the following :
1. A non accusative approach, but instead, a diplomatic one. No one likes to be criticized even if the criticism is warranted. For example, one doesn’t approach a country with different Human Rights policies than the USA’s, by saying, “Look you guys, you are being suppressive here and I am coming on a ‘diplomatic’ mission to teach you some manners”. Of course, that would be foolish to do that. It would be a break in both Reality and Communication right from the start. The initial approach needs to be non accusative, very diplomatic, and GENUINE for it to be even heard.
2. Criticizing DM just won’t do it. And ignoring him either.
3. The approach needs to be in written from so they have proof of what the one making the approach actually said, in case that person decides later on to twist the conversations.
4. A legal assurance of confidentiality will need to be established (and even signed) where one FULLY agree to never disclose the details of the private meetings concerning the discussions about possible reformations. Without this, one won’t even get to second base for obvious reasons.
5. One handles Scn matters using Scn. There is always ways to use existing policies to support our arguments.
6. The decisions arrived at through mediation and negotiation would need to be implemented using PR strategies that does not represent in any way any admission of guilt, but mostly as changes intended for the greater good of the parishioners. And the contents of every meeting would have to remain private, in a legally enforceable manner.
With the above 6 points in mind as a general guideline, and with enough faith and persistence, an initial private meeting might be possible. And that’s all I need; an initial meeting, because anyone who talks to me personally is able to recognize my fair play and good intentions, immediately. The rest can follows with hard work and forgetting about punitive approaches. I care about people, not in being “right”.
Thetaclear. That can NEVER work as long as LRH policy & tech is being applied. The church cannot negotiate with S.P.s to change what the church does. That in itself would be a suppressive act. Hubbard would NEVER do that and policy forbids it.
DM would have to become a Tech & Admin squirrel to call such a meeting.
Good luck, Thetaclear and Terri Gamboa. I wish you luck in your endeavours to sort this out.
Yes my thoughts exactly and I have tried several various attempts, won’t go into details here so call me to discuss further: 702-528-5473
Thetaclear, call me to discuss: 702-528-5473
Since children and adults in the SO are in danger of so many types of abuse, it seems to me that body routers, and “personality test solicitors, in public places should be a public safety concern. Soliciting young people for indentured servitude is like trafficking.
Not like trafficking…IS trafficking.
I always confront the SCN guys in front of Wal-mart pushing Dianetics books and e-meters. I tell them I was on Flag on the Apollo (strange, that always garners an odd flow of admiration) and then I tell them LRH was crazy. Full look in they eyes, unwavering, like I’m going to impart some inside info. I tell others who walk up to the table to run, don’t walk, away. Then I find the store manager and tell him he’s giving a cult access to his customers. They often don’t even know what Scientology is. Usually, you never see the table there again.
So one by one by one…KNOW the truth and the truth shall set you free. Truth alone won’t do it. The Wal-Mart Mgr didn’t know the truth. Hence, he let the recruiters have access to his customers.
#1 Son, regarding getting a contractor license, you just have to go through the bureaucracy of your state, generally requiring some experience. There are training organizations that can help. A bond is trivial to get – – it is basically just a very limited insurance policy. There is a lot of work a person can do without a contractor license, though. Good luck, and have fun!
Mike. How do people who have been in Scientology get work after being in that THING for so long…..How did you start over????
I started by working as a car salesman. They do not care about your background or resume. You can sell cars or you can’t. If you can’t you don’t make money.
Ex-SO particularly, but ex-Scn generally have tremendous work ethic. They are used to working astonishingly long hours, often doing impossible tasks for little reward. They make excellent employees.
I stacked shelves in a supermarket, after having my business and personal finances wiped out – and I was Sydney Public and not in the Sea Org or Class V Staff.
That was a great question Debbie thanks for bringing that up.
I’ve often wondered how others have made it in today’s job market, especially if you’re older than 45.
Like Stephen, I was always Joe public. And over the years I ended up with big gaps in my employment due to being on course full-time and otherwise throwing my life away for the benefit of the organization.
Filling out job applications and going on interviews became extremely painful. You are required to explain all gaps in your employment….
How does one explain that they volunteered for Way to Happiness, world literacy cchr ad nauseum…
Education – Tens of thousands of dollars spent on training – class 4 auditor. But what goes on a job application is high school diploma…
So for me it’s not just about all the time and money; and all the friends lost up until now… it’s the future…
Society does not see that experience as having any value to them… it’s not something a person can openly discuss in a job interview. It’s a big ugly secret and very, very isolating as well.
I think felons coming out of prison have an easier time finding work than many X scientologists.
Mike, you are spot-on. Ex scientologists are probably some of the best workers there are..
Title Waves – I’ve occasionally explained that I worked for a religious organization for a long time at subsistence wages. A white lie that came in handy.
“Title Waves – I’ve occasionally explained that I worked for a religious organization for a long time at subsistence wages. A white lie that came in handy.”
Haha, yeah, Richard; “white lies” do come in handy for an ex Scientologist, 🙂
But one of the things that a Scientologist apparently fail to realize, is that most of us have abilities to be self-employed due to the work ethic developed over the years. I know quite a few who did just that, and they are doing just fine by themselves. I myself did that, and ever since have been working as a remodeling contractor and home builder. It is not like I am rich nor anything, as the construction industry here at my country suffered a big slump, but I can manage pretty well much better than most salaries, with the advantage that I control my own schedule and has no boss. In fact, I don’t think that it will ever be possible for me to work for anybody else. I just can’t put up with the inefficiency that abound so much in today’s work environment and the lack of real team effort, which at least in Scn was always present.
Most Scientolgists I know are incredible able people, and especially those who have been able to rid themselves of LRH’s bullshit, have it in them what it take to become great executives and small (or big, sometimes) business owners.
Was it difficult to get your contractors license? What about being bonded? Most municipalities require a bond if you go in to people’s homes.
Construction skills I learned on the RPF helped me in making a living after I escaped the cult.
You’re right Mike, to this day I’m still the “make it go right” employee.
I had a letter of recommendation from the Chief Engineer Freewinds listing all of the different machines I had experience repairing and all of the various skills I had to use there with all of the years of experience. I never heard back from anyone I gave it to. It may have not been real that one person could do all of those things. With a billion year contract one would get a lot of experience
I am still looking for a decent job. If anyone has any advice for me I would appreciate it. In the beginning
I screwed up by telling the truth when asked why I was no longer on the ship. Though it is illegal to discriminate against someone in employment because they are HIV positive, employers are human and having to choose between one person who almost died of AIDS from lack of medical care and 100 others without it, one will probably take one of the hundred without it.
Hi Bill – I’d recommend creating a profile on Linkedin and uploading a current resume. Also regularly checking job postings on online sites like Glassdoor. In addition, many counties offer job corps for placement and job training opportunities for free or reduced costs. Check out the government services listing in whatever state/county you live in. In addition, there are often non-profits who offer job training and assistance in urban centers around the country. I hope this helps! Best of luck!!
Dead Men Tell No Tales Bill Straass,
There are organizations that were created to medically help HIV positive patients with the expensive medicines to keep the virus under control, and with medical help of all kinds. Perhaps those organizations know places where HIV positive individuals can get a job without being discriminated. I am amazed as to how much disinformation there is out there regarding the subject of HIV positive. Perhaps you can look for those organizations online and reach out for them.
Also, with all your accumulated knowledge working on the Freewinds on engineering related matters, I am PRETTY sure that you have BOTH the intelligence and the discipline to create your own small business. Don’t sell yourself short.
Consider that option. That’s what I did when I left staff some decades ago. I had no idea on what the fuck to do. I mean, I just couldn’t put on my resume, “Oh, I have 2-3 years of engineering studies from which I dropped out to save the world”, 🙂 , and I had NO previous work experience except having worked as a liquor store clerk when I was 13, and having worked with my dad – who had been a contractor all his life – for many years in my free time from school, etc.
I knew that I was a great administrator who could get things done, who could handle many work cycles all at once, and who could handle personnel really well. That should mean something, I thought. So I made a detailed list of all my skills to determine what were the best possible areas that I could put those skills to use as a self-employed endeavor. Construction seemed to be the obvious choice as I had at least seen my dad do it, even though that I had basically worked with him as a “construction helper” and not as a specialist such as a “carpenter” or a “tile installer”, etc.
But I knew quite well how to paint, and was extremely fast on it, so I started by promoting “painting services” and to my surprise started to do really well. Then I added “roof sealing services” which doesn’t require to be a genius to do, and then I just started to read many “How to” books, and offered those services as I learned them even if I had not still practiced them. But I was a great student. Eventually I took a project that included every possible area of the construction, and when I sit down with the architect to review the construction plans (before signing any contract), I had absolutely no clue how to read and interpret those plans (my background was not in civil engineering), but I just nodded every time he explained something, 🙂 Then I went home, phoned a few contractors friends of mine, learned how to interpret the plans, hired experienced employees (because I myself had NO clue what the fuck to do), got the project and finished it successfully ending up learning how to do myself every facet of construction with just that one project. After that, everything was very easy. That was around 2000.
I tell you this story to get you to believe in your skills, and to get you to realize that what we were taught as regards to “making it go right” in spite of any barrier, and the SO attitude that we were expected to do ANY job whether trained on it or not, is an INCREDIBLE learned attitude that very few people adopt. My bets are on you, my friend!! You can do this.
You are absolutely right. I will do as you suggest.
Thank you.
Thetaclear it isn’t misinformation that keeps businesses from hiring HIV positive people. It is what can happen to the Healthcare plan rates in a SMB that is the problem. Average rates / coverage $ has quadrupled since 2009. (gee wonder why?) and a person with preexisting major medical problem can quickly boost a plan’s cost out of reach.
I have to say that ex Scientologists seem very well-spoken and talented. The extremes of $cientology produces individuals who have much more to offer than they realize. My impression anyway.
Dave,
Sheep Slaughter Update:
Good to see that you are continuing to hunker down and go out with a whimper, a la Hubbard.
Anyone refusing to publicly sign that Petition to nix ‘Aftermath’ can be purged from your cult as a CICSer.
This gets you down to about 5,000 mouths to feed and/or accounts to drain.
Scientology and Miscavige are fooling no one but themselves. Scientology tells everyone that they need to confess all their misdeeds in detail and take responsibility for them if they ever hope to improve themselves. At the same time Scientology will NEVER confess to ANYTHING, EVER. It takes ZERO responsibility and it is COMPLETELY unable to change. Too bad for them, their future is predictable. I saw the statistics while in the cherch and it was steeply down across the boards starting in the late 80’s. Unchanging statistics that are steeply down will eventually hit ZERO. Efforts to avoid ZERO have been to rip off those who support it with continuous re-do’s, direct donations and refusal to return unused funds. Only a moron would think that was a workable long term successful business strategy. ZERO is the future of Miscavige and his flying monkeys.
Its funny how The church has the highest stats ever, Do they have a Course on how to create SPs
Lie rs, Deadbeats , Because they sure produced some outstanding ones., Keep up the good work COB and Co , a Commendation is on its way,
I have a Strong Desire to be part of the SP group, do I need to do a special handshake.
Granitt.
Grant, you have hit on a point that makes sense. The church was founded by a malignant narcissist, who taught his followers to be just like him.
But what happens when someone with a huge ego, who simply has to be the “source” and cause of every good thing, has someone below him that starts to display talent and get things done?
That upstart wannabe has to be crushed, immediately if not sooner!
On the one hand, every good Scientologist is supposed to emulate Hubbard, to ask themselves “What would Ron do?” to wear L Ron Hubbard’s hat for the job they are assigned. There is even an issue that says Hubbard was the first to do all the jobs in Scientology and they are all supposed to be done with the knowledge that you are “wearing Ron’s hat”.
On the other hand, if you stick your head up when a screaming narcissist is on the rampage, you will only get it shot off. So there is no percentage in demonstrating competence or trying to really correct anything wrong. You become the target.
The history of Scientology is full of good folks who tried their best, ran afoul of the egos of Hubbard or Dave Miscavige, and were cast aside. Or crushed. Or beaten down to the point where they simply act as yes-men. You could list out hundreds or thousands, starting with his wife Shelley.
Now some of them are the opposition, and surprise surprise – the opposition is much larger than the remaining troops!
From the inside this is hard to see, and the dream of a recovered world without criminals, insanity or war is an attractive one. But the dream meets the reality every time the tin pot tyrant raises his voice and demonstrates his devotion to criminal acts, insane policies and all-out war on his critics.
Once it is clear that the dream is a nightmare, the only rational course is to wake up.
Very well said Matt, that’s a great posting and agreed completely !
Knowing you were someone in the trenches at Flag and how measured and sane you are, I LOVE THIS COMMENT.
Ask Me Anything was on at 11:00 last night! What a bonus! Just noticed it taped!
Nice! Love the whole message of speaking out, writing your congressman addressed as to what people can do.
My favorite line in this Ask Me Anything show was when you said, “The issue isn’t whether they believe crazy stuff or not; the issue is whether they DO crazy stuff or not.” … Those religious acts are abusive.” Good one.
Great episode. I did have a few questions. At what point did both of them leave SO/COS and when did they reunite? Did either know what happened to the other before they left the church? So happy that they now have each other as friends and made it through their terrible childhood.
Hi Mark, Saina here. Mirriam left before me but I stayed in contact with her sneakily – although was forced to disconnect for a bit once that was found out which I feel shitty about even going through even though I was in the Sea Org and had an ethics officer standing over me, making sure I wrote it. Although lands apart, we always remained in contact pretty much. She’s always been my person. I left Sept 10 2003
Saina,
So very proud of you. The episode was heartbreaking to watch. You and Mirriam have grown up to be beautiful souls…kiss your brains! Hugs to both of you..❤
Kim
I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we are all truly sorry for all that you and mirriam have been forced to endure through the misfortune of having been born into Scientology. Your courage is a blow to Scientology that will hasten it’s dissolution. Despite the horrors that you have suffered in isolation and utter neglect, you have nevertheless both grown into two beautiful, intelligent and empathetic individuals and we are all truly grateful to you for being willing and able to describe some of the crimes that were committed against you because you had no protector so that now the truth is becoming known outside of the ethics officer’s office and now people with ethics are being informed about it. Thank you.
Amen to that, org-rat 1003!!!
Amazing! You could feel the love you guys have for each other. It’s awesome that you guys had each other and still do today.Thank you for sharing your story. I know that it was hard believe me. Im happy your doing well and remember we got your back no matter what. We stand with you and we will fight together to bring down this evil Organization disguised as a church.
Saina, you are so very brave. I, too, was held responsible for the actions of my perpetrator. I was an innocent 13-year-old kid raped by a 19 year old. I was com-ev’d. They asked me if I’d been seduced. I didn’t know the meaning of the word. So we cleared it. I told them “no, I wasn’t seduced”. I had no word for what happened to me and there was no thought to my being a victim of this guy. So I was charged and convicted for “out 2-d”.
I had never been kissed…of course I hadn’t, I was only 13. But through the eyes of the sea org member’s paradigm…these children living adult lives on the Apollo…it was completely possible for a child to solicit a rape.
What is really terrible is that one of my fellow trainees gave a false character witness of me based on her own transgressions at the Celebrity Center Cadet Org. Turns out we both had a friend in common. A boy named Andy and I had been friends when our parents met through Amway years earlier. He came from a big family of 5 brothers and 1 sister. We had four sisters and one brother. So we “traded” kids sometimes on weekends. A couple of us girls would go to their house and a couple of their boys came to ours for a sleepover. So when I told my fellow messenger that I used to sleep over Andy’s house, it meant something different to her than it did to me.
When I was com-ev’d she told them I’d slept with a guy based on her own experience with Andy. The two of them had gotten caught fooling around in a sleeping bag at CCs Cadet Org as teenagers. Out 2d. So A equalled A, and I was as good as convicted. Unfortunately, someone left out the fact that Andy and I were only 8 years old and truly the best of friends.
I was really a fish out of water on Flag. I wasn’t even like the other kids who joined around the same time as I. They came from hippie families or early scientology families. I had never uttered a single curse word in my life! Every other word people said was f this and f that. When I got home, my parents had to sit me down and get me to clean up my language.
Your story and Mirriam’s touched me deeply. You are good and courageous people. You have my gratitude.
Thank you for sharing your story. Now knowing that you two were able to stay in contact with each other gives me hope that others who are still in are doing the same thing. I am so very happy for both of you to be out and together again.
The FLDS cult tried to hide and become almost untouchable…. They were finally stopped for a while and the Fed’s became involved and helped the states and counties thereof with apprehension of the leader and some of his worthless followers and eventual trail to conviction. These are crimes against innocent children and also the terrorizing of adults who want to leave. This should not be put to a panel for discussion this is actionable evidence of crimes and they are continuing. Hey David that feeling of some one is out to get you is real and they will get you and then you enter into the public domain without any way out and sir jail is not good enough for you, there are men in that place that have nothing to lose and a boat load of time to well you know, may your nightmares continue cuz we got you in our sites ready for take down.
What a perfect post the federal government will take miscavige down hes just another warren jeffs running a cult laundering money and abusing its members but when it comes to abuse of children this country will unite to take down this scumbag and its insane cult based wholly on SCIENCE FICTION author L Ron Hubbard…thank you A&E..Leah Remini and Mike Rinder for educating the people.. I never gave a thought to Scientology or what it entails until this show now I am signing every petition against this billion dollar fraud institution I am sharing and posting it on Twitter Google and Facebook
Ethics folders.
There change.org petition as referenced to on Tony Ortega’s site to try and have the show stopped…is just miind boggling!
Are Scientologists that brain washed by the pathological narcissistic personality of Dear leader? – Of course they are!
Do these people realise what they are signing and agreeing too ? – probably not
No think from themselves ? – most definitely
They are saying that they agree with child rapists in the Church, amongst many many other crimes.
(Beside the fact the this petition directed by Dear Leader by one of his minions to start – to close the show down…..which will obviously never happen – barely has 5 thousand signatures amongst from what we know of potentially global active Scientologists of less then 20 thousand…as this shrinks everyday)
The attacks currently originating from the church on this two poor women is obviously horrendous and stupid beyond believe – but at least it is predictable as it simply follows the LRH playbook of handling critics – but on the positive side it simply makes the Church look even more stupid by millions of people around the world and those people still drinking the cool aid; just as dumb and saying it is ok for all these disgusting crimes to happen.
A number of OT Australians appear on the petition – of course all doing as they are told – but one in particular jumps out – Fi Milne a LRH school principal in Newton Sydney – basically saying that child abuse victims within the church are making this up!! I hope this hits the local papers!
Some of the bunkeroos, like me, signed to be able to post all kinds of entheta over there. See the comments for screenshots, or join in at change dot org. It was a lot of fun and we’re able to sow seeds of doubt.
It was a good episode in detailing what went down for those two girls. It was also horrific and deeply disturbing. I mean, we all know the Co$ is pure evil, but both girls’ mothers sound pretty awful in their own right.
I cannot and will not make excuses for their mothers, but this is actually how deep the indoctrination goes: it convinces parents that they are not good for their children, that they don’t instinctively know what is best, and that the Church of Scientology’s policies have all the answers.
Any mother in that situation would not want to know the horrific truth. The cult of Scientology capitalizes on that by forcing a mother to question her own maternal instincts and labeling those instincts as wrong.
There are a number of references where L Ron Hubbard states what is wrong with children is their parents. He is wrong, so so SO wrong!
That neither girls’ mothers would make statements on behalf of COS against them may seem insignificant, but it is quite significant. There is still love, there is still some sort of family loyalty. Small as this little act of protest may seem to us, it’s huge for them. I want nothing more than for their mothers to reunite with these beautiful young ladies and support them. It can still happen.
Hi Sheila I was wondering if you were the same.Sheila that worked in the daycare? You can def tell that you cared for the kids. I was also wondering if you have a brother that is still in at the LA org? ???
Hi Sheila…same question from me….if so, thank you for all you’ve done for kids to date. Is there any chance you’d be willing to speak to me?
More about me:
http://christigordon.com/timeline/
http://christigordon.com/activisim/
https://www.aetv.com/shows/leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath/season-2/episode-8
Fully getting the emotional impact of the truth concerning Scientology is like stepping on a landmine. How to get that truth out across all the lies, apathy and money generated smokescreens is not as simple or as easy as it would seem with such horrible crimes being exposed. This is the closest yet to broad exposure of the sadistic tyranny of organised Scientology. In another time and another place the Hitler youth blossomed under a dictatorship with complete control over children. African children soldiers exist whether we like it or not.
There is no worse evil on earth than that which feeds off and destroys the innocence of children, especially under the guise of religion. Scientology is not alone in this operational aspect but it is one of those evils up to this time given protection by the US constitution and by other western culture’s legal, political, judicial and religious principles. Scientology is a direct assault on life itself!
I’ve never felt prouder nor emotional than aligning myself with Leah and Mike.
Yawn, when my Dad got my Mom into scientology her father warned her they were like the Nazis. This was back in ’65. Her father had fled Nazi Germany when they tried to recruit him. He recognized the church for what it truly was. And he was right.
“I want to express my deep regret and shame that not only were Mirriam and Saina subjected to horrifying abuse by Scientologists, they were ignored by those who could and should have helped them when they spoke out.
Too long have we followed L.Ron Hubbard’s playbook in how to deal with internal strife and complaints, too often have we turned our backs on the most vulnerable of our members. No more.
I intend to make it my life’s work to do what I can to make amends to those who have been ignored and shunned. I intend to tear up the rule book and start again from a more compassionate, more loving, more tolerant and transparent place. I know I cannot undo the devastation Scientology has caused, but I am going to make certain that no Scientologist goes unheard when they cry for help from now on.
I am going to set up a commission that will investigate all the many ways we have gone wrong and that commission will report to an entirely transparent board peopled by ex-Scientology Sea Org, staff, public, law enforcement, lawyers, doctors and social workers who will have the power to report crimes to the relevant authorities, arrange therapy for those who need it, and compensate those for whom the statute of limitations has run out.
No more.
Signed: David Miscavige, COB”
Or not… 🙁
You’ve one hell of an imagination, Betty! 🙂
We can dream! 🙂
What I said yesterday. Shortened version: Miscavige and the Church have the lowest responsibility level of just about anyone I can imagine. Shame….Shame.
Very well said Kurt and agreed completely !
Very well said and for those interested in how Hubbard treated children and women read my sister’s new book “Commodores Messenger – A Child Adrift In Scientology’s Sea Organization”, available on Amazon. Just released and is the most detailed history of the early Sea Org days to date.
And it’s great. I finished it last week and I am really looking forward to Part 2.
I think Janis does a great job of showing how children are treated in Scientology and the Sea Org. Also the history and detail provides wonderful context about our favorite cult and its founder.
A really great story and full of interesting bits of trivia. Can’t wait for part 2
I am almost done with Commodore’s Messenger. Ties directly to this week’s Aftermath about these young girls being sexually molested. While Janis does not talk about actual sexual molestation, it is very plain they were abused by the treatment (and exposed to certain danger many times) as directed by and received from lRon. Again this proves these are not isolated incidences, but a continuing, ‘normal’ behavior by $cn even to this day.
Mark Fulton, Thetaclear, #1 son and others: to answer your questions about the early Sea Org days, yes young children were molested and it was blamed on the children. They would then be sec-checked for hours on end, conditions, amends projects, etc. LRH had absolutely no tolerance for a child messing up, they were spiritual beings and should know better. As #1 son said, at the age of 13 most children don’t even know about sex, don’t know what it is, yet it is blamed on them. There are sex education classes in wog schools for young teenagers to learn the right and wrong and parents to educate them and help them understand the outside world of predators, etc…… but NOT in the Sea Org. In the Sea Org the ONLY education LRH wanted young SO members to have was: “Reading, Writing, Arithmetic & Scientology”. Those were the ONLY subjects he believed we needed. No parents were allowed to spend time with their kids at all, as a matter of fact LRH made sure kids were separated from their parents as much as possible. He said he was copying the “Hitler Youth Program” where you take the kids away from their parents as the parents are too easy on them and the kids will learn more from a leader than a parent. Everybody worked 12 hours a day or more and then study 3 hours a day. There was no time to see parents or talk to parents anyway and no time for anyone else to educate them or watch over them. So young children were molested and taken advantage of and it was the children’s fault. When you live in a community type environment like the Sea Org and you have no supervision of the children you are going to get rampant molestation and rape and that’s what happened. That’s why the family entity is so important, to watch out for each other, protect the young, bring them up the right way, educate them on subjects like sex, predators, the big world outside, etc. Scientology and LRH took NO responsibility for any of this. Remember, LRH was a follower of Alistair Crowley and one of Crowley’s biggest teachings was to be ABOVE the law. You could do anything, there were no limits and no need to follow the law. That was LRH’s biggest thing, he never believed he had to follow the law, that’s why he had the Sea Org in International waters where he couldn’t be held accountable for anything. The parents were always separated from their children as much as possible so of course the kids would have no one to go to or to talk to, there was no adult supervision as everyone was too busy working. Child molestation in the Sea Org has been swept under the carpet for 50 years, the Sea Org is held accountable to NO ONE. This is why Leah, Mike, A&E and the Internet are so important and are changing everything. For the first time these things are finally coming to the surface and people now have a voice. In the past there was no voice and no way one small individual could go up against the church on their own. It was impossible. Now it has become possible. It is opening Pandora’s Box…… there will be a LOT more to come as people get braver and come out and speak, so far we are just tapping the surface……
I hope Mike and Leah interview Janis Gillham Grady on the show.
“I hope Mike and Leah interview Janis Gillham Grady on the show.”
That would be really awesome!
At the beginning of the show it showed some policy about dealing with children. Is that not proof enough that there is/was something wrong and illegal going On?
My heart goes out to these lovely ladies who have come forward to be heard.
Keep it coming Mike and Leah!
As far as Saina telling someone. ” o yea I was molested years ago ” is not gonna happen. Not exactly idle chit chat..stupid
Amazing.
“in this time of Charlottesville… ” How does freaking Charlottesville with its KKK-Americans and Nazi-Americans doing their thing relate to the Church of Scientology’s wrenching Disconnection policy and abuse of helpless children?
Is the Cherch attempting to communicate that because it appears that so many people are appalled by the murder of someone in cold blood which occurred in Charlotteville that we the general population is shaken enough and need to be spared any further upset?
Amazing! The GALL of this cult! There’s no limit to it.
Edit: “are shaken enough”.
I wrote a long response earlier that got chewed up in the aether, so I’ll just change tack here. If you look at the two biggest child sex scandals to hit the news over the past decade, the Catholic Church and Jimmy Savile, you’ll notice the standard institutional response: silence and cover-up. People in both instances knew about it, but felt powerless to do anything. But what happened when everything was exposed? The BBC instituted inquiries into the situation with Savile and friends; the British cops, who were compromised by friendships that Savile had in the forces, got into action and pursued leads and got convictions like with Rolf Harris. The Catholic Church said, “Maximum mea culpa” and are trying to do things to change the culture (well, as much as they can).
What does Scientology do? Pull out Hubbard’s playbook and attack, attack, attack. Their responses are utterly disgusting and nauseating. Even institutions as big as the Catholic Church and the BBC decided they needed to take a look and see how they were enabling paedophiles. Don’t they have Clue One that what the Church and the Beeb did are what people expect institutions to do these days? The PR hit they’re taking for this is going to be unimaginable. The Internet and the media do not forget. This will be brought up. How long will it be before the Enquirer or the Globe has a front-pager headlined “Katie took Suri from Tom to prevent her being molested”? Less than a month, I bet.
And this isn’t a Bitter Defrocked Apostate they’re dealing with this time. These are two women who were betrayed by people in whom there was a position of trust, in the single worst way that western society views. They were victimized by people that hardened criminals view as scum. And Scientology is not only trying to cover it up, they’re doing it in public and blaming the victims.
We all know that there’s no bottom of the barrel with Scientology. But the depths they’ve plumbed on this one makes you wonder how deep the barrel really is.
Pregueu per a Barcelona.
“I wrote a long response earlier that got chewed up in the aether, so I’ll just change tack here”
Well, the same happened to me, Espiando, so I’ll try to do the same.
First thing that I wanted to mention is that I feel that a lot of people are just being very lenient to these two mothers by blaming the church (or “Indoctrination”) for these mother’s clear lack of moral principles. I mean, there have been lots of examples where a scientologist mother or father who had been forced to disconnect from their children (or extended family), just refused to do that in spite of all possible consequences. As I said in my previous comment that ended up in the trash, many of these abuses would have stopped long ago if Scientolgists would have had the courage to confront the assholes who were being criminal. But they preferred “Spiritual Salvation” instead of abiding by their principles when many of them actually KNEW that what was being done to them was wrong. I was on staff for several years and I was also a very short time in the SO. And I was a sort of “Chaplain” that many used to talk about their grievances, so I know what I am talking about.
I finished my EPF, but a asshole from CMO (if I remember it correctly) yelled at me. I knew almost nothing about the SO posts and that shit, but all I knew was that he was apparently very high on the org board. I yelled back at him soooooooostrong that he became confused. I almost hit him. The bosun at the time (he had apparently been a past high ranking Officer) helped me to get out of trouble; how? I have no idea. The thing is that I said, “Fuck all this; I am not going to take any shit from these people”, so I routed out. It took me 3-4x more time to be allowed to route out than the time I spent in the EPF. I was made to do LOTS of MEST work, specially many renovations, because I was trained in construction. Loooong hours with almost no sleep. And taking all the garbage out of a 20-25 feet garbage truck all by myself with my hands and a large broom. But I did all that and was finally allowed to leave. My point is, that at the first sign of suppresion, I suppressed them back. At my org I also sent the ED to go fuck himself in numerous times and we almost go into a fist fight in more than one occasion.
So when I hear about how others (adults, I mean) let themselves to be abused in any way, it just breaks my reality. And it breaks it even more when I see any parent being negligent in his/her duty. And I will say this again even if it upset a few: that phenomena has to do with CHARACTER and not with Scn itself. Scn is a monument for the ones (I am referring to only adults) who didn’t have enough self-respect.
Easy to say…Unfortunately you may not have an understanding – based on your own, different, reality it seems. Terri shared with me that the abuse many of the second generation messengers suffered at the hands of her generation were out of fear that Hubbard would hurt them. They were marinated in the Kool Aid; I was not. My brain worked in survival mode.
At some point, all I thought about was getting home. Mind you, I was from Cali but was on Flag in Spain, Portugal, the Bahamas and South America. It took a lot and some pretty stupid sec checks to help get me on the offload routing. I had learned enough to pull a fake cognition that got me a floating needle and offloaded in Non-E instead of Treason.
But that was me. I was also an outsider, which helped. Saina and Merriam were early indoctrinates who had never been taught to think for themselves. I was a critical-thinking ex-New Yorker raised by a strong and ethical Mom. I had not experienced this terrible life until Flag. I knew it was wrong and had to get out.
#1 Son…I never understood…till now
FYI, for those without cable, episodes will be available in the U.S. via iTunes and Amazon for $2.99 the Wednesday after each show. The first episode is also free to view online at A&E.
I’m sorry to be a scold, but watching pirated episodes on sites such as RuTube detracts from ratings and other viewer stats that not only provide income to A&E but help in their decision whether or not to renew shows.
I’m very happy you talked about the fact that it’s important to watch the A & E Aftermath show where the number of viewers can be counted and where A& E can make money on it. Seriously.
I’m even looking at who the commercials are so I can support them.
I’ve been telling people to watch the show. And discussing it with xers and never ends. It is having an amazing impact.
This is important info, thank you
Watched the show last night and was moved to tears. How this “religion” can keep doing this is both shocking and deeply disturbing. The two women on the show showed levels of courage that DM does not possess.
The church’s response is as pathetic as it is predictable. If there’s one thing that Mike and other ex-Scientologists have made clear time and time again, it’s that blaming victims is hard-coded into Scientology’s DNA. The church couldn’t fake an ounce of concern for these two brave young women even if its own survival depended on it.
Good one. The church can’t even fake it.
I’m remembering a comment thread on an earlier blog where a man posted something written by an ex Scientologist, a thinker, about how the abuse in Scientology is kind of similar to The Battered Women’s syndrome.
One of the things that battered women experience is the feeling that somehow it’s their fault that they were hit.
The church is like the big bully that does the hitting and then wants you to feel like you pulled it in, you did something, and it’s your fault.
And their hand hurts from hitting you, and it’s all your fault and they’re such a victim.
The bald-faced lying which the church is slinging at those who speak out, is ridiculous. That they accuse those who speak out of lying, that they accuse them of bigotry, what does bigotry have anything to do with child abuse?
Watching the attacks that the church brings out again and again against those who speak out and tell the absolute truth, is completely vomitus-ly sickening.
Since I watched the episode, phrases have been running through my mind, specifically, “your silence gives consent”. Paraphrased, because I can’t recall who said it. After I saw those hateful videos attempting to negate,destroy, obliterate the soul raping experiences of Saina and Mirriam, I have alternated feeling anger and sadness. Mostly anger.
I feel compassion for the COS girls that were manipulatively persuaded to read a script to advocate Church of Scientology, to uphold L Ron Hubbard’s policies of perversion. They probably don’t know that they are embracing the abuser.
They can’t know that Embracing the Molester, Backslapping a Rapist is what McSavage does and what the great Leader psycho pervert did.. encourage it by silencing the victims. Neither he nor LRHubbard care about
Children
Women
Men
Spirituality
Family
Humanity
The Cosmos
The environment
Etc. Only money, power, control.
They don’t know. They don’t know that this refutation is just one of many in a long line of hate-filled smearing done by L Ron Hubbard’s creation. They don’t know because knowingness is not allowed. But I imagine they’ll know not to speak of it if it ever happens to them.
Wow. That. Just that.
“I feel compassion for the COS girls that were manipulatively persuaded to read a script to advocate Church of Scientology, to uphold L Ron Hubbard’s policies of perversion. They probably don’t know that they are embracing the abuser.”
Actually with the abuse so prevalent as it is in SCN, I worry about the trauma that befell any one of these girls who may have been abused themselves. Frankly, SCN pretty much knows who was abused – they could have easily selected those who had, as a control mechanism.
Wow, wow, wow. How absolutely disgusting Scientology is. I thought it was bad that The Cult of Scientology never apologized to these ladies for being abused (even the Catholic Church apologized to their victims of Clergy abuse); but then to attack them and call them liars Oh my; All I can think or say is this CULT is a despicable and pathetic excuse for a group of human beings. All of this horribleness will just expedite their demise in a more timely fashion. I have No doubt about it. Ladies stay strong – you will prevail. TRUTH SETS YOU FREE and ensnares the liars (Scientology is doomed to go down in history as one of the cruelest of all Groups, Relgions, Cults and human beings.
As a victim of sexual abuse as a child I told NO ONE until MUCH later in life.
The “cherch’s” argument is as flawed as its fake religion.
Exactly! It really shows their lack of education and compassion in regards to child abuse. Some people NEVER speak up. Like I’d tell someone “oh yeah, by the way, I was molested” (this is Saina by the way). And to say that I said I never had any sexual experiences…. well, I was also molested in Finland while my mom worked for the mission there. But neither things are consensual and do not count, for me personally, as sexual experiences. They were abuse. And I’m so sorry you also went through abuse. Big cyber hug Sandy! <3
Another interesting observation along these lines. EVERY major troll that has appeared on this blog over the last several years has, in the past few weeks, ended up posting on Marty’s blog in defense of DM banishing his wife and criticizing people who ask about her health and safety. And they now are there attacking the little girls who got sexually molested by scientologists and Mike & Leah for exposing these crimes by the Church..
I don’t lightly label people as being criminally insane. I didn’t in the past when I named those trolls as such. And, I was correct.
Interesting over there isn’t it Winskey.
I’m thinking we should all now refer to his blog as Moving Down A Little Lower.
That is how I will be referring to it from now on.
Let’s give it an acronym. Since Marty was kind enough to give us a title let’s call his blog:
MDALL: moving down a little lower.
My problem with the rename is that he’s not going just A Little Lower. There’s no depth to which he will plumb now in service to his Dread Lord and Midget Master.
You know, I can forgive Ding-a-ling for what she does. She’s a lawyer, and therefore a whore at the core. She’s the illustration of why Billy the Shakes said “Let’s kill all the lawyers”. She puts out for money and actually has enough pride in her to give good service to her client. But Marty? I think the reason why we’re so upset is that we don’t know his motivation. There’s nothing we can say to rationalize what he’s doing. If we knew that it was money or blackmail or something that would explain his behavior, we could just blow this off and say, “Well, it’s Marty and he’s been paid/being threatened/whatever.” But we don’t know, and that’s what’s causing this situation to fester.
Speaking of trolls, I wonder if Marcotai’s over there supporting Marty. I’d like to check if he’s still having carnal knowledge of his goat, but I’m afraid I’d be censored.
“But Marty? I think the reason why we’re so upset is that we don’t know his motivation.”
Wholly agree.
Sometimes I think That whatever he is doing he is doing for his wife and kids.
You can freewheel on the Marty motive. I know I have.
That would be money Brian. There are no threats that could be made by DM that wouldn’t bring him into the spotlight immediately.
His suit looks like one of Hubbards.
Brian, how about Doin’ the moral Limbo with Marty?
Ha ha, what do you mean Winsky?
Brian look up Limbo dance. Now think MORAL limbo dance.
Oh, lol!
Dave probably told his Mark to fire up his Quantum Meter and go audit Tom. Tom’s filming of Mission Impossible 6 has been suspended for six weeks following his injury in London. Dave knows that without Tom his cult will come to a more rapid demise.
Those of us who knew nothing of Scientology are now being educated … by A&E, Mike Rinder, Leah Remini, reporters, and all the brave souls willing to publicize their most terrible secrets and scars from being “members” of Scientology.
Please keep going and TAKE DOWN this “Church” of Scientology … we the public are smart, empathetic, resourceful, and willing to help, so let us know how we can affect change, too!
Anyone and everyone who has seen your series wants to end this destruction of family and brain-washing madness that cloaks itself in ‘religion’. I still cannot believe that somehow Scientology has managed to exist in today’s society … but not for long with you at the helm. Keep the faith!!
Cult members should be pleased with Miscavige. He is doing exactly what LRH instructed. Which of course is accelerating the demise of the evil cult.
Bravo on Ep 1, Season 2! Are you ever contacted by people who left the cult because of seeing your show? It would be interesting to know about how many and if they gave any indication about what finally hit them.
Scientology hasn’t figured out that the question, “Do you still practice Fair Game?” is the equivalent of “Do you still beat your wife?”.
Both Yes and No answers are indictments.
And for Scientology, the answer is still ‘Yes’.
You both are making a real change, the church is trying hard than ever to reclute members, this week I heard from someone that a staff member in ASHO is willing to cover a full plane ticket of a 5000 miles flight just to have an interview with a prospect, so weird, seems like those human traffickers that hire poor prostitutes in south america just to deliver sexual services in Europe or Asia, buying the trip and once there work like an slave to pay back.
The most ethical group in the planet is offering plane tickets in order to handle a stat, what an overt product
They trained you. They used your superior mind for years. They deserve what they receive, and they just plain blew it. God bless, Mike. We’re rooting for all those “out” and “under the radar.” Keep up and keep on. Hugs.
The fact that Saina didn’t tell her friend means absolutely nothing. According to well documented statistics on childhood sexual abuse (London, Brick et al, 2003; Ullman, 2007), it’s estimated that only about 38% of victims disclose the incident(s) to anyone, and of those that do, even fewer are actually reported to the proper authorities. Some never disclose at all, ever.
Saina here. Thank you. That really bothered me, seeing my “friends” saying that. But I see now most people recognize that it’s ridiculous.
Hi Saina! What I and many others saw were two incredibly brave, intelligent women sharing their heart-breaking stories and speaking truth to power. No one can take that away from you. You lit a candle in the darkness for many and it will continue to shine on. Thank you!!! <3
I was deeply moved by Mirriam’s and Saina’s stories. Felt like a knife in my heart. God, those poor poor girls. And of course the cult is going to say they didn’t do it. They never ‘fess up to anything.
Interesting to see how Marty in his new pro Miscarriage valence reacts…..
I guess the Co$ now requires all members to sign a waiver not to sue? I don’t know who disgust me more on this, the Cof$’s response or the mothers silence!
I guess we will soon have the opportunity to see a Mary video in which he says, “It never happened, I was there!
Oops, that should read Marty not Mary, but I am sure you figured that out…..lol
Last I checked…you can’t give up your legal right to sue under duress or via an illegal contract vehicle (billion year term and no consideration).
Merriam-Webster definition of “church”: Definition of church
1. a building for public and especially Christian worship
2. the clergy or officialdom of a religious body
the word church … is put for the persons that are ordained for the ministry of the Gospel, that is to say, the clergy — J. Ayliffe
3. often capitalized : a body or organization of religious believers: such as
a : the whole body of Christians
the one church is the whole body gathered together from all ages — J. H. Newman
b : denomination the Presbyterian church
c : congregation
they had appointed elders for them in every church — Acts 14:23 (Revised Standard Version)
4. a public divine worship goes to church every Sunday
5. the clerical profession considered the church as a possible career
As a former Christian, it offends me that Scientology not only has tax exempt status, but that it’s called a church. Where is the worship? Where is the clergy? Religious body? Religious believers? Nothing about this “cult” remotely resembles a “church” by the most liberal interpretation. What a crock. B.S. indeed.
Oh there’s worship all right. Hubbard, the various celebrities, the “tech”.
Mike:
Yes the Church’s response was incredibly lame and utterly lacking logic and conviction.
Regarding the “500 confirmed incidents of hate crimes that have been generated against scientology”, I recall Tommy Davis in an interview rattling off a well rehearsed list of exact numbers of various threats received by the church (or maybe it was specifically against Mister Miscavige). I think it was associated with the John Sweeney Panorama production in which you were involved. Do you know if these crimes were based on any reality, perhaps exaggerated as DM would do, or were they just totally made up for the show. In any case they slipped off Tommy’s slippery tongue way too easily to be a spontaneous reaction to the circumstances at the time.
Finally got a n hour to see Episode 1 last night and it was incredibly thought provoking, touching and so so sad. A big thank you to the two women who had the guts to bare this part of their souls. It was clearly to make sure that this doesn’t happen again. I hope it is cathartic to these fine women and helps them heal.
It is important to speak out about any child abuse of any stripe whenever we can.
500? Not nearly enough yet. And, of course, they include every single instance of their well deserved criticism as a “hate crime”. Their own crimes, of course, are always either denied or justified. Criminal minds NEVER take responsibility for anything.
Mike: During one of Leah’s episodes, you made an insightful comment on how Scientology can be held accountable for its sins and crimes. You mentioned the decades it took for the Civil Rights Movement to change laws and public perceptions. For Scientology, you are MLK and Leah is Malcolm X. You both have strong personalities well suited to lead this cause. There are millions who are now more aware about Scientology’s abuses against the vulnerable, vicious attacks against critics and religious hypocrisy. Keep plugging away. You are already freeing a lot of people.
Does the sea org currently allow sea org members to have and raise a family?
Having babies is forbidden to Sea Org Members. They can marry with cult permission. If the cult wants them to divorce they must comply to stay in good cult standing. The cult can and does split up couples without divorce by stationing them far apart from one another. Pretty much they are treated like barnyard animals; coupled off and mated, and/or split up and possible remated with others as suits the cults whims and concepts of what would most further the overall “productivity” of the group.
Aquamarine – A belated thank you for the reply. At least that solves the problem of new “born-ins” within the sea org. The problem of coercing and pressuring juveniles into the sea org still exits. Hopefully the internet is our friend in that respect, inquiring young minds.
Every Scio is complicit in their church’s long tally of heinous abuses. Like the Nazis before them, they can’t get away with the “we didn’t know” excuse forever. Sooner or later they’ll have to confront their crimes just as the German citizens did when the occupying Allies forced them to march through the concentration camps. No matter how formidable the church’s bubble world may be, each Scio, one by one, will have their moment of reckoning. With the exception of Miscavige, and whatever other sick monsters run the place, I believe humanity will prevail. Over time, it’s inevitable.
Beautiful, Murray. I can’t wait for those imbeciles to be forced to confront their and their cult’s crimes. There’s innocent ignorance and then there’s willful ignorance. Each of us knows in his or her heart the huge difference between the former and the latter.
Of course scientologists believe that people would concoct stories about being sexually abused just to go on TV to make money. Money is the only thing their *church* cares about, after all.
Such logic. Much ethics.
Scientologists can be depended upon to believe anything the cult tells them to believe.
The criminal accuses others of what he, himself is doing…
Who said that?
Oooh, oooh… His name rhymes with Hell Con Blubbard…
Would someone please help jog my memory on that one?
I posted this on Tony’s blog….but I feel it needs to be posted here as well in regard to Leah & Mike’s Aftermath #2…..
I just LOVED this article….it made be burst out n peels of laughter!! Why you might ask, do I find tis article over the moon a delight……
Well….just THINK about this:
The petition quickly caught fire and has been signed by many well known and longtime Scientologists, who not only are leaving public statements about Remini but also are listing the cities where they’re from. For Scientologists it’s an unusually public act, and feels like a real departure — finally, Scientologists are standing up to be counted.
Now the JUDGE has PLENTY of names he can use of those who are “still in loyal Scientologist” as in those 500 names the Judge asked for…but I would imagine, still hasn’t received. Wow, these “celebs” better get their OWN lawyers ready….these “celebs” might be sitting in court for a long time…
Give them enough rope and they are apparently more than willing to hang themselves out to dry.
Scientology never apologizes, is never wrong and never takes any responsibility for any wrongdoings that occur in its organizations. Scientology responds by attacking or denigrating anyone who exposes their wrongdoings. Scientology management doesn’t have a clue as to how this plays with the public.
This “always attack, never defend” approach to PR offends the public and (eventually) even the more rational Scientologist. It was one of several things that caused me to look.
Now when I am approached by friends who’ve become curious about Scientology due to exposure of Scientology’s abuses, I am finally able to say “Yes , it is a cult”. I was a member of a cult.
Keep up the amazing work on this. Every episode leaves me in shock. This has to be stopped.
We closed these places down, so nothing to see here; ok but where are you housing (pardon me, berthing) the children now? and who is looking after them? are they going to school? do they see their parents? if so, how often? are they happy and well cared for?
The children, that’s crossing a line!
Just Hummin’ Along, I believe that children are now not allowed in the Sea Org. If someone in the SO wants to have a child, they have to leave.
I haven’t been around the Sea Org installations since 2005 so things may have changed, but back then they had already closed down the “Ranches” and Cadet Organization etc. The rule is that if a woman gets pregnant they send the couple to a “lower organization”, like one of the Ideal Organizations. This gets them out of the Sea Org, and allows them to actually raise the child as a couple. Better than the old system, certainly.
But these “lower organizations” are failing. They can’t afford to pay the staff much. Most have to do another job in addition to the staff job just to survive. Called “moonlighting”. So this child may still have little contact with their parents and may not have proper care. If the couple wises up and quits, the child has a chance, otherwise it is a rough time for them.
There are also a lot of very young Sea Org members, not at special ranches but actually working full time as staff. Just look at the pictures of Sea Org staff coming off the bus at the Flag Land Base. Lots of very young faces.
They are going to make beds or do food service or wash dumpsters or clean the sea wall hanging from ropes. If the recruiter can get the parent to sign a release, they go into the Sea Org at 12, 14, 16. Officially someone is assigned as a “legal guardian” but probably the one assigned also has twenty others assigned to him or her and pays no attention to what happens to the child. They are supposed to get schooling of some kind but often it is just test preparation for a GED and “High School Graduation” without much more than a third grade education.
So the abuse goes on, just in a different and less obvious form. Abusers are going to abuse. As long as they believe the Hubbard party line they are not going to treat children like children.
“If the recruiter can get the parent to sign a release, they go into the Sea Org at 12, 14, 16.”
Parent signs a release…but, legally, that’s only good to age 18. At 18 (or anytime earlier) the child themselves can withdraw the consent and walk away. A parent’s permission is seen only as temporary.
Dear Mike,
My heart goes out to these two brave women for speaking out. It’s appalling to say the least that someone would actually come on a video to discredit such terrible actions – specially a so called “friend”. Saina and Myriam are very brave and survivors of horrible acts. What angers me even more is that the police department, FBI and IRS are not taking any action. Is there a “rescue house/place” for any scientologist who needs help to “escape”?
Thank you and Leah for educating all of us who didn’t know anything about Scientology and speaking up for so many of the victims.
Sarah: I so agree with you. It was gut wrenching to watch these women describe the horrors they endured as children. What makes this worse is the one abuser who is still active in the Sea Org. It’s amazing how Scientology uses subterfuge and attacks the character of these women and others who expose sexual, mental and physical abuse. For some reason, the FBI, California law enforcement and other agencies charged with protecting children has let this lunatic fringe religion led by a megalomaniac get away with this. I condemn Tom Cruise, Erika Christensen, Anne Archer, John Travolta and Kirstie Alley. They love having Sea Org members scrub their toilets for 50 cents an hour but remain silent in face of such abuse. Greta Van Susteren said she is a “strong advocate of their ethics.” Van Susteren was a criminal defense lawyer. She must know what’s going on and does nothing. Shame, shame, shame on this culpable lot!
The church’s responses are unbelievably stupid. If the church hates bad PR, then it ought to look at its own responses to people who are obviously hurting. (Surely there’s some LRH policy that covers this.?) Talk about bad PR! Geez. It’s its own worst enemy.
David miscavige can continue to blame the messengers while the implosion of this church continues.
An LRH Policy on people who are obviously hurting??….Really? Of course there’s a policy…it says”
“People are responsible for their OWN condition”…….
I was being sarcastic about PR policy. I’m sure there’s much. Whatever. This church is OVER.
Leah and Mike are making sure it’s down for the count and that people on the outside get a clear picture of how vile it is and never get in. Maybe even some still in might wake up.
Ballet Lady – did you watch Season 1 at all? Mary knows what she is talking about.
“Surely there’s some LRH policy that covers this.”
Yes, and the church is using the LRH policy perfectly. THAT’S why it is in trouble. DM is following LRH policy and orders.
He said never use lies in PR. Of course, he said other things too.
Mike, bravo for an amazing response to their ridiculous “response” (if you can even call it that).
On Twitter, Aaron Smith-Levin brought up another excellent point. We can’t post images here, but he tweeted two screenshots of the C of S “response” that was shown on The Aftermath. One was from Mirriam’s mother, in the affidavit she signed 20 days before the show aired, where she said she divorced Mirriam’s father when she learned of the abuse…..in 1998. The other was from C of S, where they stated that Mirriam’s father was dismissed from the Sea Org (but not the whole church?) when THEY learned of the abuse…..in 2002, or 4 years after Mirriam’s mother said she learned about it.
Are we to really believe that Mirriam’s mother never once wrote a KR on her husband’s depraved actions in those four years? And if she didn’t, doesn’t that put her in violation of committing a major “withhold” for so many years, meaning she was derelict in her responsibility to “help” her husband “handle” his problems?
As Aaron stated when he responded to that, we’d have to believe that Mirriam’s mother was so pissed at her husband that she divorced him but did NOT inform the church. I’m pretty sure that when the divorce took place, the C of S would have tried to help BOTH of Mirriam’s parents “handle” any reasons for the divorce and “help” them get through it.
In other words, one way or the other, SOMEONE (either Mirriam’s mother or the “church”) didn’t follow policy.
And why is her father, even if kicked out of the Sea Org, still in the “church”? You get kicked out and excommunicated for the “unforgivable crime” of simply saying one little critical thing of LRH, but if you molest a 4-year old girl, they can just look past that and let you still receive “services”?
At the end of the day, the only conclusion that can be made, on ANY logical level, is that this is all nothing more than utter bullshit.
You are so right Mick. They declare me and Lois an SP because we wouldn’t disconnect from my “SP son” and his in-laws and yet molesting a 4 year old girl is okay I guess. Remember though, he confessed to his crimes, did some amends project and lower conditions and SCN auditing handled the reason behind his abuses so he clean from the church’s mind.
What a load of crap! The abusive father should have been turned into the police and excommunicated for life.
Right.
CPO,
A load of crap indeed! The abusive father probably spent one night in central files as his ‘amend project’ and got the MAA to sign off. I do not think a Civil/Criminal Court would buy off on that.
The cherch’s culpability is established and now it is looking at publicity similar to that which humbled the Catholic Church. Scientology is so incapable of cooperating with the authorities that they could easily face dissolution when they refuse to cooperate.
My idea of a true amends project for the cherch would include full refund to all dissatisfied customers, funding the education and training of all ex-staff members to join society, and jail for all upper tier executives as documented by their staff as to the particular civil and/or criminal acts that they committed. We cannot, at this time, contact the Marcabians to help put david short-ass out with The Commoder at Target 2. Even though we might like to.
Exactly Gary. The abusive father should have been reported to law enforcement, but they allowed him to “make amends” to the organization (including a lame-ass “apology”/non-apology to his daughter) in order to protect him from prison.
Yet they take a father like you, who simply doesn’t want to abandon his child to disconnection, and throw you out for…..what…..not obeying an order to cut your own child out of your life? What kind of upside-down universe are they living in?
Based on my understanding of how this cult works, I can almost guaran-damn-tee you that if Mirriam’s father ever refuses to “toe the line” and decides to leave one day, that they will use this against him to attack him and “ruin him utterly”, and I’ll be he’s been made fully aware of that. He’s now trapped with no way to get out of this organization without his “dirty little secret” being used against him. Problem is, that’s no longer a secret he can hide from, thanks to the show, nor should he be able to hide from it.
He needs to be held accountable for his crimes in a court of law (a real court, not some unaccountable, IJC-sanctioned kangaroo “court” you’ll find in this self-serving organization).
Amen!
Mick: Bingo. True logical thinking makes it clear that the cult has hanged itself by its own petard.
Mike, from my perspective you, Leah and your producers are getting it right with each episode. And what an effect you are having on Scientology and Scientologists.
You are exposing the true and current underbelly of the beast which is abhorrent to any decent human being.
As usual the church or cult which it is, is doing there bit to try to silence these women from speaking out. Being sexually assaulted has a lifetime affect on your mind and if me or anyone else can help stop these crime they have the right to. Fuck Scientology. They need to be held accountable for the lives they have ruined.
“This is sort of like saying “the concentration camps are closed now, so nothing to worry about” EXCEPT the culture that allowed that to happen in the first place is still in place. And that we all know that scientology CANNOT change the writings of L. Ron Hubbard. So they are set in their ways, cleaning glass with vinegar and newspaper and sending out telexes.”
Well said! Perfectly, actually.
You’re A Good Man, Charlie Brown.
Mike says:
“How come their mothers are silent and invisible and are not denying that the events described by Mirriam and Saina ever happened?”
Because in Scientology
“families are bad groups”. L Ron Hubbard
Because in Scientology
Families urges are the GE …….. L Ron Hubbard
This below link is an essay that shows that the writings of L Ron Hubbard on families are delusional and dangerous.
L Ron Hubbard was dangerously insane; Malignant Narcissist.
When his child committed suicide, most likely to get away from dad, Ron felt no grief. He only felt anger at a now having bad PR.
When Snow White was blown wide open, L Ron Hubbard tossed his wife under the buss, because she was now bad PR.
L Ron Hubbard put ‘sympathy’ below ‘hate’ on the tone scale.
L Ron Hubbard was insane, fini, end of story.
Sorry, here’s the link
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-ge-is-a-family-man/
“families are bad groups”. L Ron Hubbard……and apologists will offer up the explanation that this statement didn’t mean what you are inferring, but rather was a technical distinction to make a technical point. All they need to do is take an HONEST LOOK at Hubbards track record, which of course is not available to them under threat of “losing their eternity” if they look for sources of information on the web.
Brian, this is so true what you say about families and Hubbard, for many more details on how Hubbard treated children and families in the early Sea Org days read my sister’s book “Commodore’s Messenger, a Child Adrift in The Scientology Sea Organization”, just released and available at Amazon. This is Book One of Three to be published, the most detailed account of Hubbard’s Sea Organization ever written and published. A fantastic and revealing read, you won’t be able to put it down.
Agreed! Reading her book currently. Very revealing! Don’t miss this one if you want some good insight on Hubbard in the early days. No hearsay, real experience.
Thanks, I will read that book, Terri, and add it to my collection of “The Basics” 🙂
Thanks Terri, I’ll read it.
Terri: Another important suggestion regarding the book: Contact your local library and request the book be added to their collection.
Don’t SUGGEST. Buy five copies and donate them!!!!
Don’t REQUEST. Is what that should read. How many Dianetics books were donated to libraries? Surely each of us can throw down $100 and buy a few of Janis’ book to ensure they get into the library.
That’s a GREAT idea, that’s how they got Dianetics to be a #1 Bestseller !!
Great idea. Wish that was in Canada. They are not allowing Ms. Remini’s here.
With nearly unlimited cash and their public relations in the toilet, it makes you wonder why the “church” cannot pull itself out of this quagmire. Oh, yeah, it’s because with Scientology it’s always worse than you think. They really are that bad and the more truth that Leah and Mike disclose, the worse it will get.
Money can’t save their PR. The cult is doomed. That it is still fully alive is an apparency, like a dying tree that still has some green branches due to a few leafy branches still remaining. The tree is not getting any water, its not getting what it needs to stay alive and grow. That’s the Scientology cult, and the leaves are the Still Ins, growing brown and withering and falling off, one by one.
Nice analogy. Makes me think of the tree on the cover of Science of Survival.
I just want to hug those two girls and tell them they are loved.
Hi Jean. Saina perusing. HUG! Thank you. The support has been beautiful.