As has become their practice, within minutes of the show airing, scientology puts up a new smear site, with videos from family members — in this case Marie Bilheimer and Aaron Poulin’s mothers, and Tayler Tweed’s mother and brother.
They are sadly predictable — failing to address the issues raised in the stories and instead attempting to discredit Marie and Lauren (and Leah, Tony Ortega and me). Marie, according to Aaron’s mother should “look in the mirror” and Lauren, according to Cathy Tweed, wasn’t really even a friend of Tayler’s.
Lame stuff. But can you get inside the head of the people who think this is a good way for a “church” to respond to tragedy? Once again, not a shred of compassion or concern for anything other than the “reputation” of scientology and “attacking the attacker.”
Scientology is utterly tone deaf when it comes to responding to abuses that are exposed. And by their actions they prove what is being said in this and every other episode. In a general sense, scientology is being exposed for two things:
- Inculcating a lack of empathy, compassion and love
- Always operating on “scientology first” and “the greatest good” — sacrificing individuals for the “good” of the group
Yet they apparently think that shouting “this is being done for rating and profits” will convince people not to believe the most heartfelt recountings of personal pain by one person after another after another. Or attacking thosee people who share their stories with family members or friends on video saying “they never told me so it didnt happen” or “I knew her friends and I don’t know you so nothing you say is valid” or, or, or.
And they surround these awful videos with what can only be described as insane rants. They read like the fake news websites “Alex Jones drops bombshell on Obama that lays bare his lies” or “Elizabeth Warren puts end to Steve Bannon’s political career.” They are long on hype, contain NO facts, but plenty of incendiary language and play to the biased audience they are intended for. In this case, strictly scientologists who are found to have watched the show.
The problem is that while these websites might be believed by scientologists, they are exposed to the world. Everyone can read them. They are absolutely insane. Any normal person would not want to be associated with this sort of neon-yellow journalism. Let alone a so-called church.
But scientology keeps churning them out as if the real world does not exist.
Here are some of choice bits from their latest website:
How low will Leah Remini stoop to keep afloat her anti-religious hate campaign that has generated more than 500 threats against Church of Scientology parishioners?
This is how their rant begins.
Of course it’s the wrong question. The real question is “how low will scientology stoop to abuse people?” because that is what is being exposed. These are people that reached out to US to tell their stories. No stooping required from Leah Remini or anyone else. Just standing tall, giving a forum to those who have been abused and they step forward. This is like a crime boss complaining that the FBI is “stooping low” bringing up murders committed 10 years ago.
As for the 500 threats – we know this is just a number plucked out of thin air that they have not been able to support in any way. Wonder how long they are going to keep throwing it out? And surely it’s increasing? More shows have aired. With their rapid international expansion this should be above 600 by now surely? The 500 was just from Season 1 and the abuses being recounted in Season 2 are far worse than Season 1.And everyone knows scientology loves throwing around numbers, and when you fake one why not just keep faking it to indicate “expansion”?
Remini now takes family tragedies and twists them to fit her ends. That’s because she’s following the playbook of her consulting producer and vicious wife beater, Mike Rinder, who churns out tales he knows full well are a fraud.
Now, they have for a long time called me a vicious wife-beater and I pretty much ignore it as everyone knows where this comes from (See earlier article Mike Rinder: “Lady Killer”). But there are always new viewers and readers, so let me give you a quick view.
Briefly, the incident to which they refer is when my ex-wife, daughter, brother, Jenny Linson, Guillaume Lesevre, David Bloomberg, Sue Wilhere and two PI’s assaulted me in the parking lot of a doctor’s office in Clearwater. Much of it was recorded by John Sweeney of the BBC who I was on the phone with at the time. These people flew in from across the country and Australia, followed me to the doctor’s office and accosted me as I was waiting outside for my wife talking on the phone. I attempted to walk away from them and then to get in my car and drive away. They tried to physically prevent me from getting in the car, and took the car keys. The doctor heard them screaming, witnessed what was happening and called the Sheriff’s Department. Linson, Bloomberg and Lesevre got scared the police had been called and took off with the two PI’s. The Sheriffs came and interviewed my ex-wife, brother and daughter. My ex-wife sustained a graze on her arm, apparently from when she was trying to prevent me from getting into the car and closing the door. The police noted it as “incidental contact” and that no further action was to be taken. There was no “wife-beating.” But of course, Scientology took a photo of the graze on her arm and photoshopped it to look worse than it really was. The incident was entirely created by scientology and they have tried to milk it as “victims” ever since.
Scientology loves to say “if this happened how come there are no police reports?” Well, there is a police report and it clearly says there is no “wife-beating.”
And as for “churning out tales he knows full well are fraud” – perhaps whoever writes the copy for these websites should actually WATCH one of the shows they are writing about (they are probably not allowed to do so) because if they did they would see that it is not ME who is telling these “tales”. It is the victims who witnessed and experienced the abuse. You look foolish making statements like this because it makes it clear you have not even seen what you try to discredit.
Rinder criticizes the reaction of the Church’s external affairs office to the handling of the tragic suicide of Aaron Poulin. Yet he conveniently fails to mention the name of the man in charge of that office at that time – Mike Rinder.
Thank you so much. For years you have maintained I was a low-level nobody who held no positions of importance within scientology…
As to Aaron’s suicide, scientology knows full well that I was in The Hole at that time. Or at least the “pre-cursor” to The Hole.
But I do appreciate the recognition that I am well aware of what the Office of Special Affairs mandate is and that I would be the one to offer insight into what was happening and why because I was “in charge.”
…the Church does not treat those in need of mental health as Church policy has stated for years on our website.
Fascinating.
We have made it clear over and over that scientology does NOT believe in mental health problems and refuses to treat them. It’s a major point of this episode. Yet this is such a heavily ingrained doctrine in scientology that they feel the need to repeat it here just to make sure the world understands their position.
And that is EXACTLY THE POINT. Nobody in scientology has any chance of being helped by any mental health professional.
Mike Rinder and Leah Remini have no shame when it comes to lying in front the camera because to them it’s all about ratings, making a buck and stirring as much hate as possible.
Right or wrong, I feel that Marie as Aaron’s wife was responsible for taking care of him.
This is part of the statement by Aaron’s mother.
Well, she got that right. She is in fact wrong. And she knows it.
It is the SEA ORG that is responsible for everything about the life of a Sea Org member. That was the point. The Sea Org is incapable of dealing with someone who has serious mental health issues, as they went to great pains to explain above. Now blaming Marie is just sick and probably the worst example in this smear piece of the scientology mindset of “protect the church at all costs” and “attack the attacker.”
Sadly, the story is being twisted at the expense of Sheila and her family to spread hate about a worldwide religion.
How is the “story being twisted”? Some specifics please.
As for the “worldwide religion” – that fact that you have to assert it speaks volumes.
As Marie wrote at the time, “I am grateful for the assistance provided to me by the Church and the care and attention that has been given to me.” Marie also said, “I have had a severe personal difficulty and the Church took the time and care to ensure that I was assisted.”
Many people ask how it is that scientology has the gonads to get people to sign things before they leave the Sea Org that “hold scientology blameless.”
There are many victims that this has been done with, it is a standard operating pattern of the Office of Special Affairs (remember, I used to be the head of it).
People will sign anything to be able to finally leave the SO once they have decided they want to go. They believe their agreements to never speak out are legally binding, even when they are not. This keeps many people in fear of speaking and scientology knows that. This is in terrorem in legalese, meaning it is designed to create fear if you do something in the future (in terrorem is Latin for “in fear”). People who take the time to “route out” of the Sea Org (as opposed to “blow” which means to leave without authorization) do so in order to stay in communication with their family and friends. If they don’t submit to the sec checks and sign what is put in front of them they will not be let go. These are coerced statements and agreements not to speak. Scientology has only tried to enforce one of these agreements once that I am aware of. It blew up their face the minute Debbie Cook took the stand and they quickly withdrew.
The documents people sign are then used in times like these. The statements above may have been SIGNED by Marie, but they were not WRITTEN by her. Even the most deluded person would not write those words about themselves. They are constructed by OSA staff so they can be quoted later if needed. Just as they are now. They sound sort of convincing, if a little strange — until you know the circumstances under which they were written. And I do know, I was the head of OSA.
“I don’t think Marie would have been doing what she’s doing unless she hooked up with Leah Remini and A&E and Tony Ortega,” Marie’s mother June said. “I don’t think she would do that. And I think these people find people and they use them as a puppet and they use them for their own end.”
Sadly, this is how deluded people inside the bubble are. They truly believe that there has been no harm done and no pain caused and there are no damaged people at the hands of scientology. They have convinced themselves that anyone who says they have been hurt or damaged is being “manipulated” by SPs and “used” like puppets. It is amazing how twisted one’s view can become when you are fed a steady diet of scientology “truths.”
Too many people suffer in silence. That they now have outlets to release their heartbreaking stories is not “manipulation” — it is help.
June and her husband Mike described the entire story as manipulated and false. They were outraged that no one from A&E, co-owner Walt Disney, Slauson Productions or anyone from Remini’s office bothered to reach out to them to fact check, inform, and ask questions, NOTHING.
Now, now. Naughty, naughty, naughty.
Scientology was approached and asked to respond to this story. How do you think they got these people together and had their outraged statements and videos ready to go BEFORE the show aired?
Marie’s parents were NOT mentioned anywhere in the show. They were not involved in Aaron’s life. The Church, including the specific people involved in handling the aftermath of Aaron’s suicide were asked for to be interviewed. They conveniently don’t mention this. Just pulled some other people out to be “outraged” that they were not asked.
As for Tayler Tweed — they have a lot less to say.
But they start out with this: “Sadly, before Tayler’s untimely death, she was a troubled woman using meth and involved in dealing drugs.”
Way to go scientology. Claiming that the memory of Tayler is being tarnished by this show and you start out by completely trashing her.
And yet you claim you have the ONLY workable drug rehab program and have “salvaged 2.5 million lives from the ravages of drugs”? But that didn’t work with Tayler so now you blame the victim?
Haggis is grossly exploiting the death of someone she knew years ago to tell stories that she herself did not see nor witness.
True she did not see Tayler. She makes that VERY clear. But she DID witness her emails and texts. Why no response to those? Didn’t notice them in the episode? How come you don’t challenge the authenticity of them? They are the documentation of the entire story.
This disgusting act by Lauren is all in order to get publicity for herself just like her father did in using the Church to get publicity for his sagging career.
Hah. Nobody wants publicity for themselves connected to scientology. Not even “your” celebrities. Scientology is so poisonous nobody wants to be associated with it. This is seriously lame.
The scientology clown car has driven off a cliff. But they think they are flying and are patting one another on the back about how smooth the ride is and how they have the planet in the palm of their hand.
Absolutely nuts. And it would almost be comical if people were not being harmed by these toxic policies that they refuse to even acknowledge, let alone rectify.
There is an absolutely truism which is, when an abuser fails to control you anymore, they attempt to control how others see you. As someone who grew up in St. Pete, FL, we always thought the Scientologists and Jehovah’s Witnesses were ‘kooky but harmless’. As a survivor of long-term domestic violence, I began watching Leah’s show out of curiosity and very quickly saw the parallels. This is a method of extreme control.
What bothers me about their policy on psychiatry is that it is very dangerous! A vulnerable person could listen to them and think it would be okay either to go off medicine they are already on or not take it to start with with deadly results!
As a person who just recently took ger time to see beyond this Scientology mess, Im just amazed at how they contradict themselves with every statement. I don’t even know if you can really call what they say a statement tbh. Its more like ramblings because I don’t know what’s so difficult for them to answer if they claim they have receipts about the stories been fake.
Many people has commented on these mental health cases and how they don’t get how the deaths are the Scientology’s fault but what I get from the show and personally believe is that your questioning comes from the fact there is not really a choice for these people because if they go to other doctors, it means theyre going against the religion.
I keep hearing Scientology’s response: Remini and Rinder are making money and getting ‘attention’. My response: ok, so what? Has Scientology responsed with, you are so completely inaccurate we will have someone come on the show, sit across from the people that are telling their stories and systematically respond to EACH and EVERY statement?
Nope.
So until THAT happens Scientology is just like Charlie Browns teacher: wah, wah and WAH.
Scientology’s feelings on psychiatric help, psychiatrists,& those needing help was opened up to the public by Tom Cruise’s rant on tv years ago… it is certainly no secret how they feel,& that they have and will be the cause of more deaths& destruction.
I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness. I left that cult at 23 I’m now 31. I know it’s not exactly the same but it’s very close and I absolutely love watching the show! I know many many other former JW that appreciate what you two are doing as well. What you and Leah are doing is amazing and you’re even helping people who weren’t Scientologists. You two and everyone helping you are putting your asses on the line! Thank you for what you’re doing!
Jo
I am an X JW as well and this place of Mikes has brought me so much understanding
So not only are you all helping your own, you are all helping many!
Keep up the great work Mike and family
So many *churches* are nothing but cults in disguise. I was raised Mormon. But the *original* LDS, not to be confused with the FLDS.
I find that the cults have one glaring thing in common. This is simple but so telling. Can you leave at will? If you no longer wish to be affiliated does the church wish you well and leave it at that?
I do not follow the tenets of the LDS church, but I do not have people screaming in my face. I do not have PIs following me. My neighborhood is not under siege with people lying to discredit me. My family members, who are very active in the LDS church, talk to me, care about me, and cherish all of our family connection.
The LDS church will answer any question about it’s beliefs. And one very telling thing. Family is all important. Supporting the family, being a loving supportive family.
I read Dietetics when I was younger and found it a crock of steaming crap then. Watching the show I find it incomprehensible that thinking people would buy into this third rate hack writers megalomania.
That said, I hope this program alerts law enforcement and children’s services to begin doing their jobs and closing down these *schools* and *camps*.
My heart broke over the stories thus far shared in Season 2. I am praying Scientology is held accountable for the heinous treatment of its current and former members. It disturbs me deeply Scientology is considered a church as no real church would treat parishioners as slaves and/or prisoners, fail to report child abuse while blaming the child, or promote the separation of child from parent. Thank you and Leah for all you are doing …
What’s interesting is how they just keep responding in the same predictable way without any change in their strategy, which in terms of warfare would be deemed a “failed campaign”. It shows that their ship is being run by incompetence, arrogance, and most importantly, guilt.
Can you imagine a company like Walmart responding to criticism in the same manner with broken record responses at a predictable tone of anger instead of say sympathy, for their victims? By the way I compared Walmart because they sell cheap crap that breaks, requiring you to buy it again – only Scientology is more forceful with their sales pitch if you will… I digress. Instead their responses serve to confirm everything said about them. And that’s wholly due to following their internal Public Relations policies which apparently they are forbidden to “stay with the times” (my mailbox still fills up with their dead trees destined for the recycle heap, as an example).
Leah’s show is the deserved platform for really grabbing the balls of this evil organization and applying appropriate pressure. Marty was a stepping stone, and all those who helped and are helping, Debbie Cook, Chris Shelton and many others … all brought things to this point. The future looks bright. I stand with Leah (and Mike!). In fact our numbers and if you counted the people who have seen her show and never intend on ever stepping foot inside a Scientology organization, which coincidentally would make a fantastic plot for the show Black Mirror, then I say our numbers are larger than their numbers by now. A&E probably reaches more people than Scientology and their billions.
Great points altho’ in your first sentence, you actually could have left off the everything after, “What’s interesting is how they just keep responding.” As Leah R. very accurately noted in either the first or second episode of Season 2 (which just aired), something like-“If they are such a ‘great’ church, why do they feel threatened when they are asked questions?” I can’t remember her exact words but that was her point and it’s a simple yet valid one.
“Can you imagine a company like Walmart responding to criticism in the same manner with broken record responses at a predictable tone of anger instead of say sympathy, for their victims?”
Believe me, I know of one. Just ask Eric Scheibeler. Look his name up on Google.
“Sagging career.” It is comments like this, that makes me lose any trust.
Whether someone’s career is sagging or exploding, is irellevant to whether their words are credible.
Maybe I’m only writing this because my career is sagging.
Maybe the church only wrote this because they are sagging.
Abusive people often use intentions. “I hit you but I had had the best intentions.”
“He only bought you a car in order to control you.”
The only person who knows their own intentions is themselves. Stick with the specific facts.
I have been reading “The Bunker” for several years, and have always read “Regarded Being” and your blog for several years as well. I have asked you on several occasions to help those in the “never in” to understand all those letter designations. You have basically said that that is a daunting task, but since the show, I believe your efforts are better spent elsewhere.
I have attempted to read some of the “smear” websites, but can’t seem to get past the first few sentences, let alone paragraphs, but look forward to your detailed dismantling of these specific attacks in your blog, they help make sense of all the lies.
This past week we witnessed first hand what you and Leah are going thru dealing with all the off camera phone calls you are receiving from past members of the “church” and the intense emotion these former members are going thru to make the decision to “go public”. The risk to themselves being “fair gamed” as well as to the loss of their loved ones still in the “church” via “disconnection” can be devastating.
What I want to ask about is what is still going on with the church, seems as though the overseas Orgs and those in South America are bringing in staff to populate the Sea Org and other scientology entities since the recruiting efforts here in the States seem to have fizzled to almost nothing.
Tony Ortega did a piece on this on 8/23 about scientologys use of “religious visa’s”
I know that you and Leah are trying to take on the “church” and expose its’ abuses, but as long as the “church” can continue to populate its’ Orgs with personal and generate income outside the US, they can keep operating. How do we reign in this religious visa abuse as well as starve the “church” of funds necessary to continue its’ poison reign??
Just a thought!
This is fascinating. What M & L are showing on TV is now causing people who value the cult of scamology OVER human life to come out of the woodwork and declare themselves.
A real “rubber meets the road” phenomenon, morality wise.
Yes, I agree Winskey. Battle lines are being drawn. The line that is being drawn is….
ABUSE!
Plain and simple.
Apologists give lip service to the abuses. And some actively seek to dead agent victims of abuse and those who give voice to the abused.
Each and every dead agenting tactic or despicable words spewed towards victims and those giving voice to victims is self sabotaging their own reputation.
It’s actually unsettling that some in the blogosphere side with abuse in the name of supporting Hubbard’s “tech”.
True believers cling to the delusional self created altar on which they place the image of Hubbard.
They cling for dear life because Hubbard found the “best” “most workable” “the only way out”.
True believers can’t confront the abuse, because if they did, they’d be being blasphemous to the sacred image of Hubbard they have installed in their imagination.
The writer of the Modern Science of Mental Health wished for suicide to free space aliens.
We need no other argument against him but this one inconvenient truth.
It’s interesting Brian. There was an confidential LRH policy from the early 70’s that LRH revived as an OSA policy regarding how to attack using Black PR. The nut job who started calling people who are against scientology abuses, Anti-scientology cult members did that because he is following L Con’s advice on how to silence critics of the Cult of scientology.
And now our numbers are in the millions and theirs in the few thousands. Thank you Leah: Viking Shield Maiden.
This public opinion tsunami looms ominous over the bubble. Good!
“Viking Shield Maiden” I love it. Is this new? Let’s keep it. What about Mike? I’ve tossed aside all the side-kick type monikers coming to mind, … I like something along the lines of, “The Hand of Truth”
Your “numbers are in the millions”? That may be your and your “organization’s” belief but the reality is that every other source puts the number at 30,000 to 50,000 worldwide and rapidly declining.
Brian-I may have misunderstood what you were saying. I can’t tell if you are defending Scientology or exposing it’s lies. I hope the latter.
Critics in the millions because of media exposure.
Scientology in the thousands because of being stupid attacks.
Ike, you must be new here. Sorry if it wasn’t clear for you.
I’ve been a critic for some time.
Well…what’s true is what’s true for you. So I guess sickandtiredtology can make up whatever it wants, speak “it’s truth” and then (magical blinging sound here) voila it is the truth.
But be careful what you wish for “oh great and powerful cult”. There is power in your words. 500 threats against your church. Be careful you don’t postulate your truth into being.
I don’t envy Mike or Leah having to sort through all these comments. Some people do not get it. I was a counselor in SCN for 30 years. There were people that were genuinely helped by counseling. There was also a big segment we could not help. These people were called resistive cases and we tried everything.To make a long story short, we did not have a fix for schizophrenia or suicidal ideation or any type of mental illness that could result in death or even murder (i.ie Ellie Perkins). We were supposed to be mental health professionals but we did not have the tools for serious mental illness, Parents with a child with mental illness are being told to try some Cal Mag or a locational and meanwhile are in living hell as their child gets sicker and sicker. Regular psychiatry does not have a lot of great solutions either but they have a few and these would never be an option for a Scntist or their family.
This is one of SCN’s dirty little secrets. Counselors who come on here and say they handled all their mentally ill patients with some counseling need to dig deep in their memory banks and dig up all those failed cases, refunds and people you just could not help.
The lack of information and training on this type of case is shocking and results in debacles like Lisa McPherson who’s death changed the entire structure of Scn’s counseling hierarchy and the way counselors and their patients are treated in the organization of SCN. (like potential liabilities who must be watched 24/7).
As hard as these stories are to watch, I hope this information gets to the SCN community so parents like Tayler Tweet’s mother do not take unnecessary chances with their loved ones in the name of Defeating Psychiatry.
Thanks Mike and Leah.
When I saw the story of Marie Bilheimer, everything she said resonated with me; especially the sheer lack of emotion by scientologists. I know the zombie, emotionless lack of sympathy reaction all too well. I cried out when she said she arrived to find her husband had hanged himself and the OSA person simply stated that her husband was dead.–as if it had as much significance as burnt toast for breakfast.
Then, they LEFT HER THERE ALONE! Treated her like a pariah! (That’s another relatable experience I know all to well–being shunned because of a tragic loss). And off she went, back to work in her cubicle where she sat and cried alone.
I then read further about her family and all they’d been through. I know her whole story could not all be told in 48 minutes. But Wow…. Wow.
You are so strong, Marie. Know that we’re with you in spirit and you will be in our thoughts, always.
After this episode aired, I did three things:
1. Changed my TV cable package and told the cable company that I wanted A&E–and told them why.. (prior to this, I’d been going to viewing parties, watching The Aftermath with friends who had the network in their cable package).
2. Signed the petition to have the cult’s tax exempt status revoked.
3. Just finished my letters to my senators and representatives requesting investigations into these abuses.
I know quite a few scientologists who have suffered depression — both before and after OT levels. One confided in me that she was hoping she’d get some kind of terminal illness so she could escape…
Marie’s brave recounting of Aaron’s death reminded me of a couple of things. I was sent to live at the Hollywood Inn back in 74 when it was first purchased. I was on the estates project force at the Manor getting ready to go to the CMO. We were birthing at the annex and they moved us to the HI. I shared a room that overlooked N McCadden. I happened to look out our window one night and saw all these men lined up against the building, some very close together. I asked another girl what was going on down there. She told me they were “fags having sex”. I’d never heard that term before nor did I know anything about homosexuality. One would think that the mere proximity of the SO to the area would have resolved any illegal prostitution long ago. Apparently not.
If Aaron was having challenges with his sexuality there has always been plenty of darkness to lure him in over near the HI. And it would have only made it harder for him in the SO. My heart breaks for this young man and for Marie.
“take unnecessary chances…” Very well said.
How can a mother who says “I’m at peace” with her daughter’s decision to commit suicide then act traumatized when someone publicly talks about the circumstances surrounding her death? WHAT THE HELL IS SHE CRYING FOR??? FOR HERSELF, HER “CHURCH” OR HER DEAD CHILD?? This is the same woman, by the way, who instructed Tyler’s friends to withdraw contact with her own daughter who was struggling with depression. Cathy Tweed showed no sympathy for Tyler’s anguish while she was alive and no grief over her death yet is quick to shed crocodile tears over the “attacks” against her “religion” which was responsible for exacerbating Tyler’s condition. That part of the smear videos got me enraged and so disgusted. Heartless, fake-ass bitch.
My feelings exactly. .I don’t understand how a mother can feel that way about her own child..not be upset or guilty even for a second ?!?
Only answer is the systematic brainwashing that Scientology performs on it’s members.
Having a family history of depression, when it looked like my youngest son was falling in I called “all hands on deck” – family and friends visiting him, calling him, talking to him, getting him out doing things- we did not shy away, we did not turn away or encourage others to turn away. If Cheryl Tweet ever wakes up and leave CO$ she will have much to contend with.
Alonzo, you took a comment I made on social media, which was NOT directed at you, and disseminated it out of context in a bid to ingratiate yourself with whatever side you were on that week and in the process make me look bad. You failed miserably on both counts. You have shown what you are. There is no room for your kind here.
Agreed!! Sure has popped back up. And on twitter. Stalking Tony again!
For the longest time, for the bulk of the last 40 years, Scientology was something to be protected. It was my own thing – it didn’t matter if my family or old school friends knew about it or were interested in it – it was mine.
I’d found it and it held the answers to everything for all time. It explained my past, it lent answers and peace and solutions for my present, and it gave me unending hope, excitement, and assurance for my future.
It was a part of me for so long that there was no question of there ever being a question. There was no doubt – there was just IS.
It didn’t matter that my efforts to invite and salvage my family members had been an adventure of successes then losses – I’d given it my best shot and had given them their own shot. The times of success were sweet and stayed with me.
I carried on and set a knowing example of enthusiasm for life coupled with a strong work ethic, big heart and easy willingness to go to lengths to help at every hand.
My certainly was everything and woven into the fabric of my being. I had no idea anything could ever be any other way.
I weathered a thousand tripping stones over the years – stones that could have and should have shaken my certainty and opened my eyes – but I’d been hooked since the first glimpse – so hungry for answers – I’d dived in and became a 100% LRH gal from the very first lines.
Everything I did over the decades simply reinforced it and wove it into every fiber of my outlook. The training, the many years on staff, the posts, the hatting, the stats, auditing and OT levels, the LIFE as a steely eyed Scientologist, certain in my knowledge and understanding of the true track of man and the future-defined me to myself without even realizing it.
My development and exploration of identity ceased at a critically young and formative time – I ceased to think for myself, the real world no longer existed – all living, thinking and growing was through multi-layers of Scientology and Hubbard.
Despite the myriad of references to “The Planet”, I learned little but mystical unprovables. All “wog” sciences, knowledge and technologies were flawed, incomplete and inconsequential.
It didn’t even seem odd. In fact, I just knew I’d been ever so lucky. I read the various lines interspersed that told me of how “special” were we, the few who recognized and embraced – but I didn’t need these sprinkles of blue ribbon kudos – I lived and breathed it and was secure in comfort and bedrock certainly.
How does such a thing end? What caliber of something has to happen to shatter this impenetrable – this WEATHERED entrenched long eyed far seeing view? And if it could be shattered, how in God’s name could one gasp out a cope, get beyond desolate wastelands of stunned numbness?
How it could just flip on a dime is not pretty. I won’t ever describe the circumstances – I’m an asshole at times but no one else needs to drink from that poisoned cup of Hell. It CAN be done, suffice to say and at a point, breathing does become less toxic and less painful with slow time passages.
It’s so odd.
It’s so odd and surreal to find my hand drawing comfort from idly playing over the velvety stiff of an easy chair as I watch Mike and Leah’s ravage of the wrongs and lies – and listen to the gut wrenching casualties all too long familiar both as spectator and victim. My own hands itch with bits of old dirt.
It’s odd. To have no idea who I am, or who I should be – but know who I’m NOT, any longer. To know only one thing clearly. To know the depths of wrong.
With such gratitude, I offer all I have or am yet capable of – my sincere thanks to Mike and Leah, to all their friends and helpers, Tony and Karen and every one of you all. For doing this big wonderful thing.
For….(not hope-not yet anyway),…for helping so many, for standing on the world’s stage and ripping off the lid…and for keeping me from being so terribly alone as I cope
Very moving secretfornow. You are loved.
Oh my God secretfornow, this one paragraph caused my toes to explode! This one paragraph summs up the work I am now doing on myself. And related to Scientology. Your description of your ascent in Scientology was pure prose. It was like I was writing this. Thank you so much. You are a beautiful person❤️
Now I will continue to read the rest. ?
“My development and exploration of identity ceased at a critically young and formative time – I ceased to think for myself, the real world no longer existed – all living, thinking and growing was through multi-layers of Scientology and Hubbard.”
Remember the story when Secretes went in search of the wisest person in Athens. He met all sorts of talented artists and politicians and concluded none of them had the answers.
So he went to the Delphic Oracle to aske this question, “who is the wisest man?”
She told him he “was the wisest man.. Because you know you do not know. You reminded me of this story.
Much Love to you Secretfornow. I’ve read your circumstance on other writings. You are quite talented and insightful. Thank you so much?
It was Socrates.
Yes, I write and sometimes don’t edit. On the run, on my iPhone sometimes. Thanks Cindy. I caught it after I posted.
Brian,
we you at the celebrity center? Did you know Aaron well?
Thank you so much, Bri. I too find resonance in much of what you write.
❤️Mutual admiration ?
That was so eloquent and though I’ve never been in myself, I could feel your passion and confidence in what you believed. I can’t imagine how painful it must have been/be to work your way out after so much time & personal investment, but it’s important for others to read how certain you were and yet you still stepped away and see it for what it is.
I hope in time you feel safe sharing your whole story – what brought you to leave – but in the meantime, the parts you’ve shared already are so powerful & emotive! I hope you have people around you that understand and with whom you feel safe/comfortable sharing your story. And if not, I hope you’ll find safety in some of us out here so that you have a place to process and just get out what you’re feeling!
Hugs and take care – your story (& YOU) are so very important!
I think your response is amazing and though I don’t know you, your words carry immense resolve. I can’t imagine what your going through but I know you can gain strength from all of these brave people that are speaking out. Stay strong Secretfornow !
Secret, you write beautifully, and I relate to your erstwhile peace, security and certainty in Scientology and to what was your passion for it as well. Stick around with us. You’ll work thru it and sort it all out in a way that works for you. You have the power; you can think for yourself. Give yourself all the time you need. Again, thanks for communicating the subjective so clearly and eloquently.
And, when I say, “…in a way that works for you”, that would include even throwing it all away, if that’s what works for you! I’m not advocating that – just saying. Whatever works for you,and if that changes, so what? No one’s getting hurt, there’s no harm being done! We have minds; supposedly given to us by God. Fine, then why not use them? What kind of a God or a Supreme Being or whatever you want to call He/She or It would give us the power to reason and then say, “Oh, but as regards THIS, you must not think! You must not question when it comes to believing in me! Use your minds for EVERYTHING ELSE, that’s why I gave them to you, but when it comes to believing in ME, there are to be no doubts, no questions, EVER, or you will suffer dire consequences!”
See, that never made sense to me and in a nutshell is my fundamental problem with practically every organized religion.
You know, if Adam and Eve had been cows they’d still be in the Garden of Eden, blissfully chewing away. They’d never have been curious about the Tree of Life. The Serpent would never have been able to tempt them to eat a forbidden fruit. They would have said to the snake, “Hey, what are you crazy? We have it MADE here! We got everything we want here. We’ve got a gazillion things to eat and they’re all delicious. The Boss said not to eat this fruit. So what? Who needs a silly apple to make us smarter? Why aggravate the man. We’re fine, we’re contented here, get lost”
Of course, cows can’t talk but then neither can snakes but you get the idea; they would not have been curious, they would not have wanted MORE.
But humans do. And that’s not “evil”. Its MIRACULOUS. Its why we have the pyramids, why we can fly in machines, and a gazilllion other things.
Wow, I’d better cut this rambling semi-incoherent rant short and go to bed. Good Nite.
Thank you so much. It’s so good to have you in my corner. <3
Dear Secret for now
I experienced the same. The first thing I found out was that “I don’t know”. Still there are many things I don’t know, but to get in contact with the real world is an amazing experience after 40 years of indoc.
Self-auditing – a better word is self-reflexion – is a must and you’ll be freeing yourself of it.
best wishes on your journey
Thanks for your post, secretfornow. Your story could have been mine, but for a twist of fate many years ago. Have courage, it gets better. Pick up activities that you can really get into. Learn the guitar, for example? Ride a bike in the forest. Take care.
Thanks, Guys. Thanks again for listening. I’m so grateful to be able to be able to cheer everyone on from my little foxhole.
I no longer need any answers at all for anything. I get to discover living in the world and it’s pretty cool. My love and feeling of kinship with humanity is a joyful thing.
You are blessed! I pray for joy and peace for you. It can be a struggle back to the real world. But the real world can be a beautiful place. My wish for you is that all the beauty would be yours. Be brave, but most of all be kind to yourself.
Wow, secretfornow, you have beautifully described how I feel in away that I could never express in words here. I come to this blog every day and decompress just a little bit more every day. It’s a process but we will get there.
Secret for Now, wow, your post moved me and I was gobsmacked. In a good way. I want to second those heartfelt wishes for Tony and Leah and all who have helped pull the lid off this , for putting this blog here, so that “I’m not so terribly alone as I cope.” Eloquent. You are loved.
Taylor was a friend of mine, or at least I knew her, I think we went to the same school but I don’t really remember. MySpace after that, then the Facebook migration happened and she was still there. I remember when her posts turned a little dark. That she did what she did is still a mystery. So I will prepare myself to watching the show. As I read through the comments I learn a lot. There was something I thought might be helpful to mention before i take in any more. An article I read recently about the abilities of empaths. to, instead of turn away from the world, can use their gift to turn it right. though, it can be hard going. So sensitive to such a crazy world…
Well I just hope we can all turn it more positive. For people like Taylor, a sweetheart.
And, on another topic, this imagination came to me, that when the ship fully sinks and decays into the abyss, that those light workers shine like gold for all they’ve done.
Thank you for all you do to help people caught in this quagmire. I don’t know anyone in Scientology but I’m glad I don’t. Try to stay strong. Lots of people feel your pain and are in complete sympathy.
Does anyone know of Trump is a Scn? Because sure as hell sounds like them, just saying.
He isn’t but many people have made that comparison.
He’s similar to many narcissists like LRon Hubbard.
Trump learned his scorched earth, never apologize tactics from Roy Cohn, of the MacCarthy communist witch hunt days. Trump was his pupil.
He had Norman Vincent Peale, author of The Power of Positive Thinking, as a pastor too and praises and follows his philosophy. Some have criticized the philosophy of Peale and it’s effects.
I personally think he learn’t the most from his father and Cohn, both who were unpleasant people.
As I said elsewhere, sorry for letting that comment slip through. Please refrain from political comments as it derails the discussion. Invariably.
Thank you Mike.
You can make a solid argument against Scientology from the right or left, religious or atheist, pretty much any perspective.
Please keep in mind that referencing someone as acting like Scientology risks weakening the term. It’s like calling people commies or fascists- it loses its shock value if you over use it. If Joe the union steward or Mary who runs the animal shelter are commies, then maybe commies aren’t really that bad. I do not want to help whitewash the evils of the Co$ by turning it into a general-purpose insult like jerk or SOB.
Just for reference, the place I heard about Leah’s show was a conservative podcasting / blogging website. I would not have seen Aftermath otherwise, as I do not have cable.
No, that’s the extreme left sounding like the Scn. They want to shut down free speech everywhere. Rioting and trying to intimidate those who disagree.
Sorry that slipped through. Please no more political comments. Take those to a political blog or facebook or twitter or somewhere else.
You don’t have to post this – but just a personal thank you Mike!
The political commentary becomes exhausting, no matter what side one is on. This issue and keeping people focused on the importance of helping people see that the real world is safe and will embrace them, is SO important.
I truly appreciate this blog BECAUSE we don’t get the constant but unnecessary digs from either side. Many comparisons (on both sides of the coin) are apt, but unnecessary & truly do seem to derail & divide, when we have enough attempts at division coming from the CO$.
Thanks again for all you do!
Well said, Jennyfurr, I couldn’t agree more.
I would love to see a segment where Mike or Leah talk directly to any Sea Org who may be watching.
Reassuring them that life after Scientology is possible and actually a lot easier than they’ve been led to believe.
Sea Org members are such hard workers that many non-Scientology companies would love to employ them. They’d get weekends and evenings off to be with family or friends. Paid vacation days. Medical, dental, and vision plan insurance.
There are plenty of charities that would love to have volunteer help. Instead of handing out $WTH$ pamphlets they could actually deliver mobile meals to people who aren’t able to cook or afford food for themselves.
They are free to date, marry, have children, with whomever they wish, whenever they wish.
There are so many better ways to live a satisfying and fulfilling life than to slave for the abusive church of Scientology.
Sadly some SO, because of other family and friends still in the SO, truly do have a Sophies choice.
It both breaks my heart and fills me with anger at the same time to see lives destroyed all in the name of greed and power.
being paid for my work is still an amazing and joyful thing.
Such an excellent point! I’ve talked with a few friends who own companies or are in exec mgt that have said now that the world is more aware of what the CO$ puts people through – that former SO sound like such incredible, hard working employees! And seriously – look around that those who’ve left and are out?!?!
Except for those who’ve had extenuating circumstances or issues, have we heard of or seen ANYone who’s failed to do extremely well post-Scientology? I can’t think of any (honest, hardworking… maybe a couple shysters, but that’s for different reasons…) exes who haven’t come out & done VERY well due to being intelligent & having an incredible work ethic!
Come on out you guys – you’ve worked SO hard and truly deserve to be compensated commensurate to your hard work!
And perhaps someone can hat Dave on flipping burgers in Sing Sing.
Jennifer, there are so many wonderful people who recovered from Scientology and live successful, happy lives. My parents, my siblings, me 🙂 Sometimes when I’m just cooking or baking with my family, or if we are building a community garden, or fostering orphaned animals, or reaching out to the homeless, or just hanging out together…I think of how blessed I am to have gotten out of the SO so quickly. I’m grateful for the resilience of childhood. I’m grateful that I get to do good work every day.
I was touch by what you wrote , caring . reaching out to animals and other such perhaps homeless
great work and you will be blessed for doing this Its one of the things I did when I left years ago I am retired now I was in Sea Org 30 odd years .
Congratulations to Leah and Mike!
The stats for Season 2, Episode 2 are in. Viewers holding at 1.4 million. Hey Daviepoo, when did your cult EVER have 1.4 million show up weekly on course? How about 140,000? How bout 14,000???? How about 1400?—- Yea maybe so. Oh, that was 30-40 years ago. How about stats for 2017; MAYBE 140 total worldwide. Now you tell me who the ‘upstats’ are.
Mike, I know you are no longer in the SO and under the thumb of Davie BUT; it must be a little satisfying to be ‘re-promoted’ to the world that you headed out OSA. Contrary to Davie’s earlier lie, that you were a little teeny member that no one remembers.
Their admission (Affirmation?) that they do not treat mental illness provides a complete lie to their patter to someone taking the OCA-Test that: “You are a mess and we can fix that!” Heck, ALL that auditing addresses is ‘mental health’. Thus, the lie that the cult does not try to handle mental illness when in fact that you do audit folks.
Davie you are stuck in a dichotomy. (I can fix all mental health: I can’t fix any mental health) Here’s what you need to do: Run the dichotomy repetitively without a meter (knowing how big a being you are) to the same end phenomena of dropping a cameleon into a box of 48 crayons.
I was raised Scientologist by Scientologist parents. I joined the Sea Org in my teens, escaped in my twenties. I’ve been out for quite a few years now, but I know the basic Scientology materials well enough.
Book One in Scientology is Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health.
Yet, they say “…the Church does not treat those in need of mental health…”
Ummm….. The Modern Science of Mental Health.
Yeah I know about the policies regarding helping the able become more able and all that hogwash. But in the 60s, 70s and 80s Scientology was about improving oneself spiritually and mentally. Mental Health improvement is the whole point of auditing.
Scientology is so messed up now, they contradict their own purposes.
The current regime instead hammers improving ones status. And status is just arbitrary labels attached to money donated, nothing more.
Aaron was able. He needed to be helped. His religion failed him.
Fence sitters, under the radars, still-ins – it will fail you too. Especially if you need help.
OMG this is so true PW. I worked for an Org and saw first hand how folks could not be helped all the time. Granted there were folks that were radiating from their auditing and courses, but I also saw so many that could not be helped. Towards the end of my time working at the Org so many staff members were getting sick and dying, they were labeled PTS and did not receive help from the church until it was too late when one or two staff members or OTs might stop in and assist them. We also had a few OT 8s die of cancer, I thought at that level you were in control of the body. There was a suicide from a parishioner as well. I recall our ED at one of our meetings or more like closed door getting yelled at session that the only way out was being dead. Sure enough that started happening. Even I started going down hill, I was in fear and anxious for many years. Thank goodness I also worked a non-scn job and saw non-scn doctors/chiropractors and witnessed happiness. The books I read and things being told just didn’t add up. Working regular job 40 + hours then Org 40 + hours and getting 4-5 hours sleep (just like SO members, but not the “status”) still considered part-time in the org cuz I wasn’t there full time. So the fear and frustrations piled up especially after being put into liability because I didn’t come back from my brothers wifes funeral to work food detail for a big event. I eventually routed out because they could not handle my reasons for not wanting to stay – that I could not see the truth of the books with what was happening in front of me. Good thing I got out when I did too so I could handle the body issues (had to deal with some cancer) which if I stayed in I think I would be like the others who died from it. I am now relearning and working on my spiritualism and getting it back to the way it was before scn. Am happier, less stressed but it is still work in progress – which so is life. I just get embarrassed myself with the situation when discussed with family members that I stayed in so long and didn’t deal with it sooner (crazy thing is I did leave once before leaving the G.O. but went back in after 13 years). That is why I am taking up spiritual groups that teach positive thinking and self healing so I can be forgiving of the past and be rid of the self-doubt and frustrations of the past. I have all kinds of great posters on my wall at work to help motivate me everyday when I start to falter, which are few. I also volunteer at a County Park and oh my gosh the thanks and appreciation for us VOLUNTEERS is just amazing. They are thankful we are there helping and giving of our time. They hold thank you parties for us, give us appreciation certs and pins and free lunch (that they prep and pay for). Granted there is lots of crazy things out in the world but I still apply most of the time not listening to the fake news. Mike and Leah I love the show, hearing the reports of others and knowing full well the wrath to which scn comes down on – I laugh at their antics (not really funny but laughable non the less). Keep up the good fight.
I think OSA has lost its touch. I mean the haven’t blamed the persons who commited suicide. Well not yet anyway…
They’re workin’ on it….
I commented on yesterday’s threat (“Scientology The Aftermath S2 Ep 2: the Aftermath”) that I felt uncomfortable with the direction that this season 2 of “The Aftermath” was taking. I also said that I agreed with some of the points that Alanzo had mentioned in his post, but I didn’t want to talk about any of that because, I still had not watched the episode 2 in full (though I had already read the report on that episode by various Media), and I didn’t want to make any statements without having all the information available first, and having analyzed it from all possible angles in the best interest of being as fair as possible. I’ve now watched that episode in great details.
Though I’ve been on the side of the “Anti Scn camp”, I’ve always had my OWN mind about things, and I do not necessarily abide with the “group-think” on anything. That’s what REAL free thinkers do, and I like to think of myself as someone who base his decisions not necessarily on what the “majority” thinks, but on my own sense of correct justice and personal integrity.
After having carefully thought this through, I am afraid that I’ve arrived at the decision to withdraw my support (which has been moral, like most of the posters here) for “The Aftermath” season 2. Nor that it really matters, as I am just a nobody from the middle of nowhere, but I always like to leave the records straight about my viewpoints on anything. This season is, IMHO, crossing some boundaries that should never have been crossed, and is losing its focus on what it should have it : The Human Rights abuses THEMSELVES and absolutely about NOTHING more.
It has become a “show of force” instead of a coordinated effort towards reformation. It is making public some private matters that should have NEVER been made public without taking into consideration the possible harmful effects that this may have on the family members who didn’t decide (for WHATEVER reasons) to go public on this, and is dehumanizing the Scientologists at large by using examples that are not necessarily representative of the majority of the Scn members.
Is being very punitive oriented towards some type of crimes (or abuses) while being very conveniently (for agenda purposes, where “agenda” for me is not a negative thing; I have my own) lenient with others, like those ABUSES from parents who DECIDED to disconnect from their children or who just ABANDONED them to the Sea Organization. Of course, my OWN attitude is NOT a punitive one for whatever wrong doings, but more a rehabilitating and forgiving approach.
This season two is showing examples that in my opinion – after having been a staff member myself for quite some time and a Scientologist (no longer) for almost 3 decades – are not representative of events that were really a constant situation in the church, and if failing to stress (in this particular season) the ACTUAL examples needed which DO represent situations of Human Rights violations which has been a constant since mid ’50s. And if our REAL interest is in helping those already inside, then we are failing them miserably, IMHO.
As I don’t want to risk this post of mine ending up in the trash can due to its length, I’ll leave it here for the time being. At a later time during the day, I’ll write another comment specifically explaining what it was that I found morally incorrect from episode 2. I won’t be replying to ad hominem arguments, just to be clear on my position.
Correction. On the beginning sentence from my comments above, it should have read, “I commented on yesterday’s thread”, not “threat”.
By withdrawing your support does that mean no more prolix comments on everything? I can see a lot of free time in my future….
i just want to say keep up on the work you do. i have been watching when season 1 came out and i recently purchased going clear troublemaker and ruthless. i for one would not join any religion that would make me disconnect from my family if i were to leave or hand over all my money to them. Two of my husband’s cousins left Scientology and they are more happier now then they were when they were Scientologists we can’t remember their names but they made a wise decision and they have family that still talks to them and supports them. Don’t let anyone scare you from what you are doing if i was there i would be right beside you and Leah.
Haha mike burn
“By withdrawing your support does that mean no more prolix comments on everything? I can see a lot of free time in my future…”
Don’t worry, Mike; I’ll just post (tonight or tomorrow) one last explaining my reasons and my arguments, and they I’ll be on my way to give you that “free time”. So allow that one. I didn’t mean that I do not support the goal of specifically ending the abuses, but in my opinion you guys have deviated from it, and I no longer feel comfortable. You have your conscience Mike, and I have mine. I’ve always thought of you as a incredible freedom fighter, and I still do. But I feel you guys are going the wrong way now in this season 2. You said about pastor Rice that you could be friends with him even if you disagreed on his take on gay marriages, which I found very mature and altruistic. Well, I disagree with the way you are taking season 2, but that doesn’t mean that I think that you are evil nor anything like that. In fact, you are a great guy, and I really mean that. But this specific time, we are going to have to agree to disagree.
No problem. As I have often said here, I think differing views are most welcome. I have a learned a LOT from people who see things differently than me. I hope you can identify your position because so far all I can discern is you think we have “deviated” but I cannot figure out what we have deviated from in your eyes.
This is my explanation Mike. I hope that you do post it, even if it is a long one. Please allow me to express myself so as to not let any mysteries behind concerning why my change in perspective. I have a few friends who post here that I would like them to know why I feel the way I feel. Do this, and I’ll be on my way. Thank you.
I won’t use too much of this blog’s space, as I will NOT be replying to anyone to avoid giving you more work than you really need, and out of respect for all the good considerations that you’ve always showed for me.
So anyone wanting to reply to me will have to do it via emails lines. I very much welcome any opinions from anybody even if they are in disagreement with mine, as long as you present them with respect and without any personal attacks.
I am Peter Torres from Puerto Rico, and I can be reached at :
[email protected]
I am NOT a Scientologists even though I use from it whatever parts I may find workable after decades of being involved in delivering Scn to others. I find most of LRH’s texts dangerous in their present state without making any modifications to it to eliminate from them destructive and false assertions that might create a cultic attitude and thought reform. But I am not against the practice of Scn as a philosophy/religion (or whatever we want to call it) any more that I am not against the reading of the Bible which is ALSO riddled with many falsities and destructive parts.
Religions are not necessarily inherently right. In fact, from my personal opinion, they are mostly inherently wrong. But I have no business telling others in what to believe or not. As long as people are practicing whatever it is that they practice without harming others, I am perfectly fine with it. No difference with Scn as the Tech of auditing/training is concerned. Do I practice it? No, I don’t; I am into other forms of healing modalities.
We have thousands of cults in the USA (I am part of the USA in a way; I am Puerto Rican). Some are more destructive than others. We also have many, many religious denominations among the major religions. Each one of them – to some degree or another – (call it a cult, or just a religion) have “crazy” cosmologies; some sort of “We v/s them” mentality even if mildly so; attitudes of shunning others who think differently; instances where some abuses (some sexual, some type of neglect, harassment of some sort, etc) has occurred; some instances where they preferred to handle things within the church away from punitive “justice” actions (to which I fully agree); etc, etc.
We see this in the Catholic church, and in many, many others. Apart from forcing them to deal with SPECIFIC instances of sexual abuse, wherever and whenever it has happened, the ones forcing them limit their criticism and “attack” towards THOSE specific instances, and try to leave the religious aspects themselves alone (no matter if we disagree with them or find them rather silly). I don’t see many T.V. shows attacking the Catholic Church for their beliefs itself, but if they do, this is about SPECIFIC instances of abuses.
Now, different churches deals with the problems of their parishioners in different ways. By “problems” I mean drug problems, mental problems (suicide thoughts, depression, etc), marital problems, etc, etc. We have for example, quite a few Christian based drug rehabilitation programs. Some handle suicidal tendencies with lots of “love bombing” and a caring attitude, and putting the person in a non stressful environment.
There are LOTS of different ways to handle suicidal tendencies, many of which does NOT use psychotropic drugs. In fact, here are some links (NOT from Scn) about how some professional health care practitioners prefer “Talk therapy” instead of drugs. Also some links about studies concerning the relation of antidepressants and developing suicidal tendencies. Those studies are from practitioners themselves.
http://www.futurity.org/talk-therapy-repeat-suicide-808232/
https://www.madinamerica.com/2014/09/suicides-rise-increasing-psychiatric-involvement/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23869907
When I was an Mission/org auditor I handled MANY individuals with suicidal thoughts and depression and it WORKED. I also successfully handled a lot of cases of drug use. What a REAL auditor does is to CARE and to REALLY listen; the SAME EXACT ingredients of most successful psychotherapeutic approaches from psychologists and psychiatrists. They DON’T do anything magic, for Christ’s sakes, all they do is TO LISTEN and show they care; the SAME thing that a trained auditor does.
This silly idea that a trained Scientologist – really trained the old ways, you know – is not equipped to handle depression and other forms of mental stress, is a FALSE idea. In our mission, we handed many, many cases successfully. And daily, such individuals are also helped by different modalities of healing INCLUDING nutritional therapy.
But, and this is important, even under great care and professional help, there are MANY instances where patients undergoing different kinds of treatment from different kinds of therapists, end up killing themselves regardless. Do we go and attack such professionals because they “failed”? Of course, we DON’T. Humans are very complex. There isn’t any guarantee of success with even the most perfect of the psychotherapies.
The auditors in the case of Taylor DID tried to help her with auditing. That’s was made clear by her. She said that “it didn’t help her”, but it is not clear if she communicated that to her auditor(s), or if for some reason she withheld it. She might have been under drugs, there might have been insufficient data for the auditor; they might have used a wrong auditing approach; we just DON’T know because neither Leah nor you have enough data about the details of this to make a responsible statement about it.
And Lauren DID said that Taylor seemed to be doing better by her posts at FB and by her photos. There was no way for the org to necessarily know if she was still under stress or not. Not even her close friends could tell. We just DON’T know what was going through this girl’s mind at the time, so as to make a definite statement about it.
I myself had lots of suicidal thoughts for several years while I was in Scn and even before it. Absolutely none of it was related to my Scn experiences. It was some issue that even to this date I can’t understand. I just have it from time to time out of nowhere. So I KNOW what I am talking about.
Does this mean that we need to rule out Scn’s undue influence and pressure as the cause of the stress that brought her to kill herself? Of course NOT. That might just have been the case. We just don’t know for sure, and pretending that we do know, is irresponsible, IMHO. Is to become “judge and executioner” without a proper “trial” and without a “jury”.
We have had suicides in Scn and they have also happened in others areas of life, religious groups, universities, schools, etc. That they happened can not immediately be interpreted that they were Scn related without no other causes. I am not saying that none were Scn related. All I am saying is that we must be careful when making assumptions and generalizations without enough evidence.
And YES, there is a culture of lack of compassion in Scn, coming mostly from staff, and mostly from SO staff, but this has been made more prevalent since the last decade with DM’s suppression and crazy leadership. And this attitude is not necessarily common to every Scientologist, specially the public. It DOES exist, but we can’t just say that it is prevalent in every org every where. Scn is NOT DM and a few executives, or the SO. Scn is ALSO all its public who are, most of them, people like you and me. But the show is stereotyping ALL them, even if not directly so. And that is WRONG.
We are deviating from the ACTUAL thing that needs handling : The Human Rights abuses in the form of forced Disconnection, and the suppression of free thinking and expression by savagely attacking those who disagree, with Fair Game practices. Those are the two MAIN Human Rights abuses that have been CONSTANTLY happening since the mid ’50s.
And we have TONS of such examples to report and expose. Why do we have to take isolated instances of suicides without even knowing all the particulars of it, to make a case point for some attitudes that are not necessarily general to all the Scn membership, and which WILL bring bad memories to a mother who DIDN’T decide to make that public?
How in the name of God is that going to stop the abuses? That’s even inhuman, IMHO, to nationally talk about the suicide of somebody’s daughter without NO thought on how was that going to affect such a mother, and more so when she probably feels guilty, even if she doesn’t manifest it among her Scn friends.
And what about that thing of Aaron’s widow talking in front of NATIONAL TV about her husband’s court case due to “prostitution”????? What gives her the right to do that? Does Aaron gave her the okay from the death? THIS IS WRONG, Leah and Mike.
And then you relate his suicide to Scn? They guy was heading for a VERY stressful and embarrassing court situation. There are many examples of suicides from people who just CAN’T face that kind of thing. A friend of mine committed suicide for a similar situation and he WASN’T a Scientologist. Gee, he was a Christian!
Does reporting this suicide and exposing the PRIVATE life of this young kid is really necessary to end the basic Human Rights abuses that the church is guilty of? I can’t possibly understand that it is necessary. In fact, that’s very inhuman to do that. It shows lack of compassion, ACTUALLY.
Mike and Leah, the way that you are “fighting” this battle now, is wrong, irrelevant, not necessary, and unfocused. It is not even morally right from my perspective.
So there you have it, Mike, my reasons. Do with them what you like. I am out of here. Thanks for always being such an incredible host and for offering me a platform to speak up. I shall ever be indebted to you. But I can’t follow you under these circumstances. My integrity to myself is superior to anything, and it is not for sale.
Thanks and fare well.
My only response to you is that I do NOT want anyone to “follow me”. Ever.
I will continue to do what I think is right to put an end to the abuses of scientology. I certainly understand there will always be those who disagree. I have no doubt about my motives and that is what guides me in my choices.
Well said Mike. I don’t think anyone here is following you but the vast majority are rooting you on and supporting you! I personally approve of the direction you are going (not that you are asking for or need anyone’s approval) and the stand you are taking.
The mindset and policies of the church that enable their abuses need to be exposed and you and Leah are doing an outstanding job of it! Imho.
Rather than respond to each point made, all of which I am very well-educated in/about, I want to say that I have no doubt in your motives, Mike.
And good God, I never want to be accused of prolix comments 😉
“Thanks and fare well.”
Thank YOU for posting my comments!
“My only response to you is that I do NOT want anyone to ‘follow me”. Ever.”
I know, Mike.
I will continue to do what I think is right to put an end to the abuses of scientology. I certainly understand there will always be those who disagree. I have no doubt about my motives and that is what guides me in my choices.”
I respect what you do, and I know that your motives are honorable. In this particular instance, we don’t agree, but that’s ok; as you said, not everyone will agree with you.
That I don’t agree with the direction that season two is being taken, does not in any way affect my respect for you and Leah.
I wish you both the best!
Thank you Mike. Not following but very grateful for what you do. Regardless of the fact that others have committed suicide outside of SCN, those suicides inside the church can be particularly painful, especially when they are caused by SCN.
I was devastated at the news several years ago that a former beloved co-worker and friend had a bad experience in upper level auditing and killed herself. She arranged to have her young daughter stay with her ex husband, with a very elaborate write-up of everything about their child. A “hat turn over” by its content and way more than weekend instructions.
She flew to her parents home in Chicago, bought a gun, and blew her brains out in their bathtub.
Everyone who knew and loved this gentle woman was shocked and so sad about her death. She loved her daughter. The child was her life. Whatever happened in the Org that sent her over the edge had to be very bad for her to leave her child forever. I guess most of us will never know.
Grave respect!!
Thank you so much, Thetaclear, for your explanation. I very much appreciate it.
Yes, last night I was seriously reeling from … the shows content likely.
In going to sleep I had to remind myself that where I sleep, is in the heavens. God is everywhere. Drop/forget the mind altogether, and waking in restored peace.
May everyone do whats right to restore peace!! I pray!!
God bless.
Theta Clear,
That is a remarkable and awesome post. Very deep, very thoughtful, in the best sense of the word. almost too much so for a blog.
I have 2 points to make here, one for you Peter and one for Mike and Lea:
Peter, please note that whistleblowers expose and shout from roof tops, to be noticed and to make a change .That’s what they do.
They are not necessarily objective, all encompassing researchers/ investigators. And sure, are also driven by hurtful feelings, especially when against a mean and cruel organization. It can be expected.
And Mike and Lea, while doing your very important work, keep in mind and try to avoid extremism and ” throwing the baby out with the bathwater”.
Life, scientology, other cults, – All, have plenty of dirty water, but babies too!! Keep exposing the dirty water!
And Mike, on top of your great work, you deserve full respect for the tolerance and patience in your blog.
Hemi ♥
Nice to see a civilized debate between gentlemen.
And how often do you see the word “prolix”.
One thing about scientologists, and former scientologists, they sure have worked on expanding their vocabulary. (Remember Marty using the word mimesis?… or maybe that word was just printed on Miscavige’s notes provided to Marty?)
Prolix? That indicated so much I line charged! 🙂
omg great word!!!!! LMAO too.
It really is! Had to look it up?
Rolling my eyes Alanzo, oh I mean Thetaclear
Really, Ms P? This is your best response. Thetaclear obviously spent quite a bit of time clarifying his position. What do YOU think of what he had to say? Can you contribute to the conversation with something higher than the level of a fart joke?
Fine, TC. You want them to go after the human rights abuses. I want them to go after the philosophy. I was a bit disappointed by Season 1, since I didn’t feel they went after Hubbard enough. Now Mike and Leah are showing a clear link between the destructive philosophies that went into this shitshow of a cult and actual damage to real people, people who were loved by those around them, and I couldn’t be happier. I want more.
The lesson here is that you can’t satisfy everyone. You let it slip a little when you said that you viewed the show as a movement toward reformation. You went through a two-year soul search on this subject, and I was there to witness the change in you. I think you know, at least subconsciously, that this philosophy cannot be reformed. It was set in amber in 1965 with KSW. If you want to keep thinking that, I can’t stop you. But I think you know better.
These two episodes, along with Lisa McPherson, show the true destructive power that Scientology possesses. This power needs to be exposed. 1.4 million people, most of whom have never heard of Lisa McPherson, got exposed to it this week. This needs to continue, and it deserves my support.
Thanks for your comments, Espiando. I’ll only be replying to you and to no one else, as your reply to my post was before my explanation, and as I don’t want you to feel ignored in your communications.
I am well aware of the inherent destructiveness in the subject of Scn in an unreformed, unrevised form. Showing how Scn is or could become a thought stopping endeavor, is as important as showing how ANY cult is or could become that as well.
That having been said, the ends doesn’t justify the means. I am not necessarily protesting about the end, but the means being used in season 2.
As I said (or inferred) before, Christianity, Islam, Tibetan Buddhism, etc, etc, all have many crazy shit as part of their beliefs AND practices, but we don’t see many (or rather, ANY) national TV shows “Dead Agenting” their beliefs.
If we are to be honest about this, then we would need to say the same about ALL religions and ALL cults. But in doing so, we might unwittingly and unintentionally, commit errors judgement, some forms of bigotry, general assumptions not necessarily based on all available facts (which is defined as “injustice”), and attacks on the wrong target(s) that we are supposed to be helping.
Hate only generates more hate, dear Espiando. I am not into punitive approaches, and I am not into searching for cases to validate my own confirmation bias and to support my own personal agendas, regardless of the consequences that it might have on others who are as victims as the cases being presented.
If you want it more clear than that, then I don’t know what else to say. As I said to Mike, we are going to have to agree to disagree. Anyway, thanks for your kind words to me. In me, you have a friend here. My personal email is in my post. I won’t be replying here any more as it wouldn’t be proper of me to derail the discussions. Feel free to write to me any time you feel like it.
ML,
Peter
I don’t expect an answer from you, knowing that you are disappointed with the way “Aftermath” is trending. Of course you have every right to feel that way. I assume you’re staying true to your conscience, so this is the right move for you. I will take exception, however, with your comment saying “If you are honest with yourself…..” pardon me, my dear, but I am being honest. scientology is not the only religion using mind control, human trafficking, child labor etcera. I think most of us here have heard of other cults using these same illegal and immoral practices. The FLDS fits the bill, and believe me they’re being scrutinized. So don’t tell the good people here they’re not being honest. I feel you’re being honest in your statement, please give me the respect. I really do know my own mind.
To me, the essence of this disagreement TC is the decency in which it had been expressed.
I have my own view TC but I’d rather acknowledge the goodness and decency between you and Mike and other posters.
Out here in this Scientology diaspora it gets ugly.
But not with you guys. I proud of this site.
Thank you for the decency ❤️??
I understand how you could come to that conclusion.
My own conclusion is is different and for different reasons. Short version: I’ve been auditing independently since 2007. Just in the last year and half I’ve completed 7 people on their grades. All of them were very happy. None of them have joined a cult. All of our business is from word of mouth. There’s lots of good word of mouth out there for what we do.
I believe that what is good and workable in the tech is being destroyed utterly by Miscavige. I believe his organization is a suppressive group. I believe that the level of impact being delivered by Mike, Leah and their guests is the correct level of impact needed to get the Co$ to clean up their act. So I’m very supportive.
Far too much evil has been swept under the rug by an organization claiming to be the most ethical group in the universe. Have you watched the Debbie Cook videos from the Texas court room? That’s the level of impact needed to jar some of those folks loose from La La land. That’s the level of impact that is needed to penetrate the thick skulls of Miscavige and his minions.
Excellent, LDW!
” the ACTUAL examples needed which DO represent situations of Human Rights violations which has been a constant since mid ’50s. And if our REAL interest is in helping those already inside, then we are failing them miserably, IMHO. ”
Perhaps Theta clear you could elaborate on that which you feel is most needed to do something about it to help rather than slink away with your paltry statement:
“After having carefully thought this through, I am afraid that I’ve arrived at the decision to withdraw my support (which has been moral, like most of the posters here) for “The Aftermath” season 2.”
IMHO you belong back on staff somewhere with the other invertibrates. But that is just me. Sorry for the rant. Your are entitled to believe what you want.
I thought that you were supposed to not write novels any more? Lol!!
Gonna get in trouble ?
Mike I love the visual of the Scientology clown car going off the cliff. On behalf of all Clowns we mean no disrespect! It is very clear to most folks by now that if Scientology had nothing to hide they would not need their dopey website. They would simply sue all involved for slanderbut as you rightly pointed out that would only result in a big fail! They at least learned something from the Debbie Cook lawsuit.
Bravo mike
Mike, I think OSA has realized you and Leah have just ripped through their whole group, and now more stories can come out,…. there is more ,
Staff and public Scientologists are going to realize there is NO OT being, in their terms., just by their actions. OSA needs to clay demo RE active Mind..
Only Ron can save the Day, OH! where is Ron?, .Hes been back for sometime, Hes had his 21 years of fun
He needs to take responsibility,
Granitt.
Scientology has remastered the old “I know you are but what am I” defense. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t hurting so many people.
They actually admit they don’t treat people for mental health? These people suck at PR. Their tactics might have worked in the pre-social media days but they don’t work today. They can’t control the narrative anymore. I have to think they are having a hard time recruiting.
Right…We don’t treat mental health (okay so duh – of course you don’t treat mental health…you destroy it).
Um but your primary entry-level thesis is Dianetics the Modern Science of Mental Health?
So I guess one could surmise that there is either some illegal practice of medicine going on or we take them at their word they don’t treat mental health …issues…they destroy those who have them.
“The problem is that while these websites might be believed by scientologists, they are exposed to the world. Everyone can read them.”
An interesting choice in using the word “might”. Yes, scientologists MIGHT believe, though only a few years ago, they would most certainly believe. I have faith in the humanity of most practitioners of scientology, and I believe they have growing doubts and uncertainties. They may pretend to each other that everything is o.k. (who wants to risk knowledge reports and sec checks, expensive auditing, etc), but they know deep down that something is really stinking in the basement.
The ranks are dropping away in scientology, and nobody is joining. The world is seeing scientology for what it really is… and the lame attack videos simply do more harm than good for scientology’s PR, internally and externally.
I’m UTR. There are doubts. There are questions. Some are even speaking to each other. It’s very interesting to listen to friends having doubts. No need to push. Just a simple, “I wonder why COB hasn’t handled the off policy petition promotion?” is the irresistible question.
Thanks for the inside report, things like that give us valuable insight into what otherwise often seems like a black box.
Does it seem like more doubts than ever before?
Are people wondering about things like the continual failure of SMP to meet promised deadlines or produce anything at all, or what the small number of signatures on the petition says about the real number of active members, or do they just not think about the more complex inconsistencies?
How common is it becoming for people to count on being able to beat the meter, if they are sec checked and probed for doubts?
IP – Glad to hear that not only are there doubts, but that people are being courageous enough to speak up to one another. That truly could become the MOST powerful thing – if people are willing to talk to one another about these things on the inside.
Easy for me to say from here, I’m sure (I’m not facing any further disconnection than the one precious relationship I have that’s already impacted by disconnection. I don’t have a business or job I could lose from walking away, etc..) but I do think so many are scared but feeling the same things. So it’s incredibly encouraging to hear that, in this climate, some of those still in are willing to talk and/or listen!
I try and keep my conversations light and when I hear some b/s I ask a question rather than laughing or deriding. At least that’s what I try to do. I’ve had people tell me they aren’t okay with the petition, with the strategy of just trying to dead agent all critics, why isn’t “What Is Greatness?” being applied (one of my favorites), disagreements with all the regging, the IAS, the buildings. All that kind of policy stuff is discussed. I just try to keep the strings that need pulling visible to them.
We all tend to rationalize anomalies some of the time. For Scientologists who are active that is a full time job.
You know when there are threats made to Jews, Muslims, etc. there is usually a police report filed and the ADL, CAIR, ACLU make a note of it, naming time and place, etc. So 500? Police reports? Media reports?
I know there is one which the co$ has exploited, and Leah and Mike talked about last season. Unlike what I have seen from both Muslim and Jewish communities who offer help and compassion for their attackers and those who issue threats (One case was of a Muslim friend who’s home had been attacked. In court, when giving a victim impact statement he have asked for mercy and compassion for the attackers of his home hoping that they had a chance to learn better and reject bigotry) . . . but in co$, no. Just go ahead and unintentionally affirm the characterizations that have been made about the “church.”
Attacking Marie is just another unintentionally affirmation about the lack of compassion. They are hoping any niggling guilt she feels will destroy her. I saw it many times on a internet email support group for survivors of suicide. This is evil
Congratulations CO$, you are your own worst PR.
I can’t believe how many stories I have heard about someone leaving Scientology or posting doubts about the church that have been met with responses by Scientologists along the lines of “go kill yourself.”
And then if someone follows through on that “advice” co$ calls their non scientology family members trying to get donations or to get them in for services . . . cuz . . . yeah
They are told to kill themselves!!??
There are a number of examples out there, but Aaron Smith-Levin did a video about the Hate sites and addressing some of the responses he received and yes, he got at least one (possibly more) messages on FB telling him something along the lines of “do his family a favor & end cycle or kill himself” and then there was another one I saw (so sorry I’m blanking right now) where this person got emails and FB messages where more than one said things like “Kill yourself” and “Your family would be better off if you’d died…” horrid stuff!
Alanzo you say to Mike,”what the hell are you doing?”
For much of us, apparently not all, what Mike is doing is revealing the effects of following doctrines which lead to the heartless disregard of human suffering.
That IS the only purpose: REVEALING THE THE SICK TWISTED DOCTRINES THAT LEAD TO THESE OUTCOMES.
It is indefensible to be on the side of the abuser.
I often get myself into situations where I see things the way I do, and no one else sees them that way.
I’ve now been called “insane” here on Mike’s blog, as I was called “insane” on Marty’s blog when Mike and Marty were the Kings of the Indies and they were defending Scientology and I was a critic of it. And I was called “insane” before that on fora where Scientologists hung out and I was giving them data that had been withheld from them by the Church (which was being run by Marty, Mike, & Dave at the time) It’s amazing to see peoples’ minds change on things the longer you are around in this space, and what is considered “insane” and by whom at the time.
So let me just explain myself a little: I had a woman who was very close to me have someone who was very close to her commit suicide and blame her for it in the note he left. I knew the history and all parts of the situation very well.
I spent weeks helping this woman (actually months) deal with this suicide, and from being blamed for the suicide in the note by all that person’s friends and family who heard he had blamed her. You would not believe the cruel calls she got, and how she actually heard the news that he killed himself. When she showed up at the funeral, the family angrily humiliated her in front of everyone, and kicked her out of the funeral.
This woman was not responsible for this man’s suicide.
This man was severely depressed, and he killed himself.
I’ve seen, up close, what blaming someone for someone else’s suicide does to a person. I’ve seen the twisted logic, usually fueled by catastrophic grief, that causes others to blame someone for someone else’s suicide.
In this situation on Scientology and the Aftermath, however, catastrophic grief is not even the fuel. The fuel is the self-righteous war to “end the abuses” in Scientology, and the vengeance people feel against their former religion, and what has been done to them.
There is a way to say “Scientology is not competent to treat severe depression”. Blaming a mother for her severely depressed daughter’s suicide is not it.
Every request here for me to defend Cathy Tweed as a mother presumes that the attacks on her for her own daughter’s suicide are valid.
They are not.
I may be the only one in the world with this viewpoint on Tayler Tweed’s suicide.
Then so be it.
Thanks for letting me have my say, Mike.
Alanzo
Have you reached out to Cathy Tweed?
And of course, Alanzo, YOU presume to know EXACTLY what Cathy Tweed is or is not responsible for even though you don’t actually know her personally.
And you of course KNOW the dynamics of the Tweed suicide because of a similar situation with SOMEONE ELSE that you were emotionally close to.
True logical thinking (well, not really).
And you enjoy opposing prevailing viewpoints and stirring the pot.
What a surprise.
Have you asked Mike and Leah the same thing?
Alanzo, what do you think of the way this depressed, suicide-prone girl’s mother “helped” her? If you were feeling that low, that bad, and your own MOTHER was telling all her friends and all your friends not to help you or give you the time of day, in what direction do you think you’d be being pushed? Would this attitude from your mother be an encouragement, an incentive, for you to bootstrap yourself up, or to do yourself in and get it over with. Think about it, Alanzo. What would compute in YOUR mind, if you were the depressed, drug addicted person and it was YOUR mother telling everyone, essentially, not to bother, to leave you alone. Think about it.
I’m wondering if a point was missed, both about the show and in this thread. Mike and Leah didn’t blame Tayler’s Mom for Tayler’s suicide. I believe the point of the story was the fact that Scientology is not equipped to handle mental illness and to show how the Scientology paradigm toward mental illness is to shun and ostracize the person who needs help.
A couple of posters have taken issue with blaming the church or the parents/friends/tormentors for Aaron or Tayler’s suicides.
I don’t believe the church CAUSED the suicides, but they did not help these young people, and much of what exacerbated their conditions is part of the systemic problem with Scientology. Fear of Mental illness and mental health practitioners and methods makes the mentally ill person a danger to Scientology. As a result, they must be labeled as PTS or SP so SCN may “rightfully” distance itself from them.
The subsequent laying of blame on Marie by Aaron’s mother for his death (in the black PR piece) is precisely what Alonzo indicated is wrong.
Abuses of Scientology include the disregard for and mishandling of mentally ill parishioners. As in Tayler’s story, the torment she suffered at the hands of staff and other members was written up by her, following the “correct” lines. Her plea for help and justice went unanswered. Her mother’s post was yet another demonstration of the disconnection policy.
We can never truly know what drove Aaron to take his life. Speculation by those of us who didn’t know him would be rude and presumptuous. If a person was struggling with their sexuality as a member of a group who hates homosexuality and this group was all they had, can you even imagine the pain? So many of us formers know what it took to get out and to recover, and some of us were not the pariahs that Aaron or Tayler were, or that Mike and Leah are.
Dissolving into an argument amongst ourselves over blame and semantics distracts from the matter at hand. The truth must continue to be revealed. Something can be done about IT.
Don’t feed the trolls
OMG, you’re right and I just did.
But it was good!
I guess Alanzo can also be spelt another way too – ‘Marty’.
Mike, I never gave any credence to the “wife-beating” claims. Never. And that’s *BEFORE* I knew your side here! There is always the non-Scientology version of events, and IT is always the truth. I hate that you had to defend yourself again. I pray for your safety regularly, and for Leah’s as well. Many blessings and unwavering support to you for what you are doing. Your bravery makes you one of my heroes.
What Audra said 🙂
I am so profoundly happy that you two have taken on this crusade to inform the world of the vicious cult known as scientology. Hopefully your dedication will result in the demise of this group and set hundreds of thousands of people free. Leah & Mike, you are heroes,!
I’ve had my fare share of mishaps in life, being Scientology staff was a HUGE one but in the few legal scenarios I’ve witnessed first hand it never ceased to amaze me how a good lawyer knows exactly what the opposition will say and how they will respond, regardless of facts or the truth. Scientology has moulded itself with perfect predictability. If they ever presented a chess or poker team it would be easy money to bet against them. Their defence is always attack the attacker and never address any facts of any case brought against them. I long for the day of “Scientologists in Deposition,” and if I ever get to live long enough to see Miscavige in deposition I would consider it a great day for justice.
As it is, this response by the church is just more fodder to assist in their eventual demise. The contempt and belligerence the Cof$ displays for intelligent people is staggering. The skeletons in the Scientology closet probably have their own union by now with rules, annual fees, bylaws, org board and such.
Great response Mike Rinder. Have you thought of putting these in video form and having them as rebuttals on the internet for all to see? There must be a way to troll the Scientology smear videos with your own.
But then he would be on the same level as the Cos. Mike is much better than that. You can see it in his eyes.
You can see so much.
Thank you for continuing to do what you do… it’s important and helpful for people who have been involved with all kinds of cults. Thank you!
Mike, you’re shooting fish in a barrel here. I totally commend you for extricating yourself from a cult and hope someday your family will do so as well.
I just started watching the series and was compelled to watch the everything from start to finished. The stories that have been shared are heart breaking but also an inspiration watching the strength and self fortitude of those that have been able to break free. Only compassion and love should be given to these people brave enough to come forward.
I have only one suggestion for this series , is that Leah does say off and on that other religions have open books and share their belief systems, but do have their internal secrets that they sweep into corners.
Why?? If another religion or pretend religion/cult is abusive, does that make scientology right? Does scientology abuses make others right? If SCN allows child molesters to roam among children and the fundamental LDS church does the same…are they both good?
I think Mike and Leah need to stay on topic. There are some basic tenets of religion that are in direct conflict with the “religion” of Scientology. Those simple things like not taking all your money or causing you to lose your family…Those things are not practiced by traditional religions.
i have been watching the show since the beginning. I always suspected Scientology was a cult and your show confirmed it for me. I think the show is amazing. It has helped so many people to come out and take a stand against this awful church. I hope some day justice will be served!! Keep up the amazing job everyone !!!!!!!!!!
Mike, my wife and I watched the episode last night. It was heart-breaking to see two beautiful young people destroyed by Scientology, and the damage it has done to Marie and Lauren. Scientology is an evil organization, and this was a powerful episode.
All mammals have maternal instincts. Scientology mothers have had those erased apparently. Even Atheist mothers love their children. Anyone watch “Intervention” on A&E? The mothers (and fathers) on that show who have children stuck in addiction spend thousands trying to help them on their own, they’ve been lied to, even when their own child who stole from them…drained their bank accounts…they still love them and seek help all the way to the point of going on National TV exposing their family’s dark secrets for the sake of finding a cure for their addicted child. Scientology mothers who act like these “mothers” on “Scientology The Aftermath” are despicable and sickening and do not deserve to call themselves “mother”. A good mother will go to any length to save their child no matter the child’s age no matter what they have done.
“Even Atheist mothers love their children.”
You sure? 😉 /sarcasm
Hi Mike thank my lucky stars That when I questioned if the sea org had Starbucks and why aren’t they vegan, then how are you trying to save the world? They couldn’t answer that when they kept pushing to recruit me – when I was in my 20’s. I have been an ecofeminist way before Scientologist…I also was being overly seduced with good looking men from the Sea org. Talking to me about it – finally they give up. I later became suicidal while being a Scientologist by becoming anxiety ridden with the church all the money pressure and auditing made me snap. They didn’t help me the right way either. I eventually had to get psychiatric help to save my life but it was hard to break from the church when I had invested so much, I couldn’t take the physical pain from depression, it was like my battery was being drained, out if that makes sense. That said I’m so sad for the victims they deserve $$$ for being a victim of that cult, we all do!
I have to say if these victims are “acting” for fame and $$ money then they should receive the “Oscar” and the “Academy Award” and any other acting awards. Everyone connected to this show that is on camera should, because I’m pretty sure nobody without acting lessons/experience could pull off the sincerity that these people show.
Indeed. I have never witnessed such bravery as what those people display by telling the truth. It is not their chosen profession, nor are they ordered to or paid to stand in front of a camera and be something other than what they are. Just being themselves and telling their heartbreaking history is worthy of much respect. This A&E series already stands as a tribute to the response of the human character in adversity and gives the audience every opportunity to address their own emotions and reactions. In many ways this series by Leah & Mike on A&E sort of creates or parallels the art of truth. The raw emotions and hard hitting realities presented cannot be choreographed and the effect belongs to the audience personally by presenting the truth, not some sort of entertainment or staged educational/legal factor – those people are real and their stories are genuine. On the other hand Scientology can only write their scripts and drill their players until they get a pass.
Decades ago the powers that be decided that it was “inhumane & wrong to warehouse the mentally ill” in psychiatric facilities, some for life.
The powers that be began shutting down multiple psychiatric facilities & ran amok placing some of these “marginally mentally ill” in group homes or nursing homes. Just like in a psychiatric facility, they are housed, fed, clothed & basically lined up in the morning, afternoon, evening to be “fed their meds” & it is marked down that the patient has had their meds.
In some situations, the patient is permitted to leave the facility for a sheltered work shop…OR to sign themselves out for the day, go out and walk around town. Some patients signed out for the day, go out on their own, and do NOT return to the facility where they end up living on the street, sleeping in alleys, park benches, under bridges…….& eating out of trash cans or begging for money & alcohol….all the while WITHOUT their medications that help control their mental health issues.
How do I know this, my brother was one of these people. He lived at home with our parents til he was 27 & one day walked out of the house on his own volition, refusing to take his meds & be “watched by my parents” who made SURE he took his meds, ate & slept well, showered, and wore clean clothes. .
Two weeks later my brother was picked up by the police, who took him to a hospital with a psychiatric floor “in house”. He could only stay there three to four weeks & was discharged to yet another “group home facility”. This has gone on for years…he STILL does not “get it” that he needs to take his meds to control his psychiatric disorders, so he’s been back and forth between “group homes/nursing homes” & the small maybe half floor of an in house regular psychiatric family.
There ARE those who NEED to live in a well controlled environment…I am NOT talking about the so called criminally insane, just those so mentally ill they can hurt themselves & often do. My brother has been taken advantage of, robbed of his pocket money had his room at those facilities burglarized, & he’s been beaten up several times while wandering around without his meds & living on the streets.
Only someone who has actually lived with or knows completely the mentally ill person will understand any of this. So many undiagnosed mentally ill walk around all day & night with nowhere to go. Soup kitchens and trash cans feed them, UNLESS they HARM someone, they are permitted to continue to live this way, sleeping on the street when the weather is below zero or in the high 90.s.
Who helps them??….you’ve guessed it……
Balletlady,
Sadly, only family are the ones who care and in this current society the system has no functional solution or program. Been there. What is appreciated only by those who have cared for such people is the strain and drain on the caregivers. They go downhill faster than their patients.
The ACLU is active in making the salt Lake authorities wrong for recently rounding some 700+ living on the streets. The 90% response is to invite the ACLU to take in these folks… Of course the ACLU has no intention of doing any good, sorta like the cult.
You’re right on everything, Balletlady,. Lots of mentally ill people end up in jail.
An outstanding piece Mike. Bless you & your family for putting this heap of bs written abuse by the cult of Scientology where it belongs in the gutter. I admire you all so much and send love, appreciation & respect your way Always.?
I can’t believe you are saying this about people who have lost their families members to suicide. The ham-handed copy the Church writes about you is bad, yes. But mothers and family members of people who have died?
What the hell are you doing?
Regarding Cathy Tweed, there are very specific things she says in rebuttal to what you had in the show about her and what she was doing to help Taylor. Neither you, nor Leah, nor Tony Ortega, nor Rachel Bernstein have ever presented this information.
Why are you continuing to attack her?
In your war against your former religion, have you lost all of your humanity?
Stick to the abuses, Mike. Uncover the crimes – for once. But leave people who have lost their daughters and sisters and sons to suicide ALONE.
Alanzo
Oh boy.
Yes, good response Music Junkie. Alanzo has been around for a long, long time and revels in blog and thread controversy. He’s as predictable as Scientology really. I was kind of hoping no one would respond to him, but that’s not going to happen – Alanzo is a happy camper now.
I saw him on twitter going after Ortega. His profile says he’s against scientology and against anti-Scientology. Whatever the hell that means???♂️
Alanzo acts like a dramatizing Scientologist and will turn around and shoot himself in the foot if it introduces and/or helps keep controversy going and directs attention off anything like sanity, solutions or correct responsibilities. He loves confusing issues and posters alike. This posting on Mike’s site was well thought out and conceived by him, probably took him all night. It’s an prime example of his highest priority concerning social www interchange. I remember his ESMB antics very well. It’s not that he’s got think skin or anything like that, he’s immune to himself.
So Alonzo, what exactly did Cathy do that no one mentioned?
I think it’s the Scientology mindset itself that’s being criticized. No one outside the bubble thinks that vitamins can cure mental illness and Cathy’s, Scientology first belief (KSW), was fatal to her daughter. Telling her friends to ignore her was cold and contributed to her alienation.
If Leah and Mike exposing this mind set, saves just one other kid from suicide, would you say it’s worth it?
Cathy was being a good Scientologist, but in the outside world these beliefs are seen as toxic and literally fatal. Warning others that Scientology can rob you of all humanity and empathy is a noble cause in my book.
Anyway, I’m curious to hear what you would say in her defense? I have hope that you can change your mind, as you did with the Rathbun situation. I’m sure Mike would post your response, which wouldn’t happen elsewhere, so why not lay it out and discuss it in the comments?
Alanzo, Mike of s saying nothing. These women are talking. You seem to be the one out of touch
And who is interested in all sides? Mike allows you to post and Marty culls opinions like a anti social personality.
Very telling about what’s happening here.
Fortunately Alonzo, Mike has the freedom to call them as he sees them and if Cathy decided to trash her own daughter in defense of the C of S, she should be called out for it, imho as she is part of the problem that is being exposed. That also demonstrates the abuse that the C of S inflicts on it’s members. Do you really think Cathy willingly and voluntarily said that for the whole world to see without having been instructed by the Church to do so. I sincerely doubt it as she would never have been able to see the show and hear what was said! But it would be very sad indeed if she did! Nice try Alonzo
“Regarding Cathy Tweed, there are very specific things she says in rebuttal to what you had in the show about her and what she was doing to help Taylor.”
What are those “very specific things” and why are you alluding to facts and testimony not in evidence as if your opinion of what they meant should be sufficient reason for us to accept your position, rather than coming to our own on the matter?
I know this is going to come as a thetan-annihilating revelation to you, but you’re making an argument here that’s based on your own credibility, rather than on the objective facts of the matter, and we’re very unlikely to even consider your argument on that basis because your credibility, at least in this forum, is pretty much shot.
So, if you have a fact-based argument to make, then why not just go ahead and do it, instead of trying to foist your opinion onto us, as if you had the authoritative stature to bring that one off?
Alanzo, I hope you’re at least getting paid by OSA
Naw, he does this sort of stuff for free.
Wow, psycho, scamology sycophant Alanzo performs two insane posts inside of a week. I didn’t know that internet day at the asylum was more than once a week.
“internet day at the asylum”. 🙂
Alanzo – just go away please.
It’s good to keep a troll around for target practice even if they are a tad boring!
Alan, you well know co$ stance on mental health practitioners, “the psychs”. You know damn well that her mother, being a scilon, would never seek help for her daughter from “the psychs”. It would make her an illegal PC. I’m sure she tried very hard to help her daughter. Mike isn’t attacking her. He’s merely pointing out the facts of the matter. Did you see her mother’s FB post advising people to defriend Tayler? Do you call this support? Tayler wrote about the “help” she was getting — a naturopath — vitamins, auditing. This is the sad result of the cult’s rabid indoctrination against ‘the psyches’. It’s a tragedy that could have been prevented. And the co$ had a lot to do with putting her in a bad state of mind. Failing to address Tayler’s issues with Portland staff started the ball rolling. You know damn well what happens when you complain about “good hats” – YOU become the target and this is just what happened to Tayler.
The fact that people commit suicide for lack of proper care is something that should be made known. Especially when that lack of care is coming from an organization that claims to have the ONLY workable technology for handling the mind.
You need to adjust your rifle sights a bit.
Alanzo,
What am I missing here? I don’t see anything that was said as an ‘attack’ on Cathy Tweed.
Cathy’s comments (‘disconnect from my daughter’) and Cathy’s behavior have been discussed, but I haven’t seen Mike or Leah say Cathy was directly responsible for Tayler’s death.
Let’s face it – no one is responsible for another’s suicide. People can abuse others which may lead to depression, etc. But at the end of the day, you make the decision on whether to end your own life.
Take the recent example of the girl who encouraged her boyfriend to commit suicide. IMO, she was not guilty of manslaughter. She clearly was guilty of depraved indifference, but (again IMO) she did not ‘pull the trigger, turn the car on’ etc etc.
You use your friend as an example and said you ‘knew the history’ and therefore you knew your friend was not to blame.
I would argue none of us ‘know the history’ between Tayler and her mother. We do however, have the posts this young girl made where she was clearly upset with how she was being treated in this so called ‘church’ . And we have the posts her mother made which essentially asked people to turn their backs on her daughter. When Tayler needed support the most.
I think Cathy Tweed was guilty of putting the cult in front of her daughter. And not recognizing her daughter’s cries for help. And I think Cathy compounded an already horrible situation by blaming her daughter and continuing to fail to see her daughter’s struggles with their ‘faith’ even after Tayler died.
How is exposing what Cathy wrote (‘please disconnect’) attacking her? They were her words. It’s not like Leah and Mike were saying ‘we think Cathy told people to disconnect’.
It’s almost as if you want to defend Cathy from her own actions.
I don’t see exposing someone’s own words and behaviors as ‘attacking’ them.
And…..where have you been?! What do you think of our pal Marty these days?
Or it could be he criticizes people that get more press than he does. Ever heard of the outer butts?
Some people are just more suggestible than others. IMHO I think its really that simple. Now, as regards the mindset of this Tweed woman, everything out of her mouth about her daughter sounds to me like she wanted the girl dead and out of her hair. Sorry to be so blunt but just going on her words, well… I’m not saying that her daughter’s death was her actual hope or postulate, but she sure talks like it was, What communicates to me is her version of Miscavige’s instructions to the detectives stalking his father, i.e, not to help him, “if he dies, he dies”. Yes, I’d bet money that she was fed up with the girl and postulating her death, or else, why talk as she did? No mother talks like that!
Alanzo, if your child had severe drug problems would you go on Facebook and warn all your friends and acquaintances and all of your child’s friends and acquaintances never to shelter your child? Would you do that, really? Tell me, please. Be honest.
Mike: They are not talking to the general audience. They are preaching to the converted. They won’t clue in because they can’t. And as more people find out the truth inside their bubble they too will clue in and leave as you did. PS. Have you thanked John Sweeney for asking the question that burst your bubble?
Two things: I think it is safe to say that any documents signed for Scientology was made under duress and should never prove anything. The woman that commented about her daughter’s suicide and knowledge of her daughter’s friends is pure trash. All the children were shipped off to some camp to be brainwashed and the parents rarely saw their children and couldn’t possibly know who their children’s friends are. Along with the IRS petition the FBI should get involved. People are being held against their will afraid of the threats and that is kidnapping!
Keep up the good work,Mike and Leah,you will ultimely bring them down,with all your followers of this show,your stories are heartbreaking,but need to be brought out!
The more stirred up they get the more it works to your advantage – I wouldn’t underestimate the power of empathy inherent to the broader “wog” world. Keep calm and carry on.
After this season the cult will be known as the Cherch of the Invertibrates. You won’t find a spine or anything resembling a backbone in the lot of them.
Nice forensic work Mike. You have taken the hate speak of the cult and once again exposed the lies.
Yo Dave,
How bad is it going to get good buddy, before You stop writhing around in the backwater of trashing Your parishioners lives? This will end, Your cherch will end but it will end badly for You.
Dave – it’s time to release OT 9 & 10 to terminatedly handle the flap.
Sounds like a flap handling plan. The usual stipulation though – once enough letters out have ceased A&E’s Aftermath series he’ll release the OT extravaganza of mega planetary clearing ramifications. See the reg now to secure your position in the long line of Scientology promises before the tide goes out and it gets all muddy.
The Church has created an internal world for it and its members in which there is no empathy, no compassion, no caring, no humility, no shame, and where victims of their cruelty and people with the conscience to speak out against it are labelled essentially as criminals. This would be the larger world if they ever “cleared” the planet. Who would want to live in that world?
Well Said!!
Ooooo, Ooooo….can I be number 502!
I have said many times before that when the person or group comes after you with guns blazing, it usually means you are on the right track. You are telling the truth and the COS will do anything including lies and evil fabricated stories from those closest to the victims in order to dispel the truth that has been presented. In a way though, it is good they are saying these things. It shows the evil and inhumane way the COS operates and they will stop at nothing to save their money train. Their comments really expose their own beliefs as false and wrong. Being the surviving brother of two suicides in my family, I know the pain and hardship that the death of a loved one brings. You never get over it. You do get through it and I am thankful for the two stories you told this week that allowed two people to share their pain and anguish in a really tough situation. I really hope they can find some peace somewhere. It is hard to do so and you live your life always asking “what could I have done?”. At least they were able to share their side of the two tragedies that altered their lives forever and I am thankful you have a place for them to find some solace, hard as it is to tell the stories. Keep telling the stories, let others see what this evil empire is all about. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
“This is being done for ratings and profits”- if ever there was a more succinct tag line to describe Scientology I sure don’t know what it would be.
Those that have family at where ever Fort Harrison or other bases / Int etc , should demand they see them,
and not just well being , but right to see them This behavior is out of hand any one that has a true family would want to know there where about’s and protect and ask questions , families outside should be doing this
and The question is why aren’t they ?
I haven’t had the chance to watch the episode yet, mostly because I think I need to prepare myself for it. But these smear videos, holy crap! I’m a never in, and I realize it’s been explained more than once that it’s scripture for scientologists to react in this manner to any and all negativity, but this is hard for me to wrap my head around. I go back and forth from being really angry at these people and really sad for them, because I have a feeling that once they “wake up” they’re going to have to deal with the fact that they behaved this way about people they cared for.
Mr. V. was an alter boy for a few years in the Catholic Church. He was not abused, and he doesn’t have any knowledge of abuse happening in his parish, but he never ever would even consider that the people who came forward about their abuse were lying. He’d never attack their character and claim they were in it for the money, let alone say it out loud in a video for all the world to see.
Go Mike!!
You have the truth behind you. Scientology only has lies.
The tsunami of public opinion is rising ominous on this psychopathic organization.
Dave, you can put your condition squarely on the writings of L Ron Hubbard.
What is happening now is a result of the application of the “tech” which harms people. We as a civil society will put up NO MORE WITH L RON HUBBARD’S DEMONIC ANTI SOCIAL DOCTRINES!!
And we are only on the second episode of an entire season!
Your paper crown Dave is being lit on fire by the embers of truth.
Your distorted lies and anti social black ops are now for all to see. And by the end of this second season of Aftermath I sense a huge societal backlash coming your way.
The more we as a society see the dark nature of this “church” the more your celebrities PR will suffer. Take it to the bank, it’s happening.
Friday I attended the funeral of my childhood best friend. She died of cancer at age 62. Her husband spoke at her funeral and said one of the most profound things I have ever heard.
He talked about priorities in life, how we are always juggling balls. He said we needed to remember that most of the balls we juggle are rubber and that if we drop them they bounce. But there are crystal balls as well. These balls are the lives of your family and those dear to you.
He discussed how they went through 3 job losses and subsequent relocations and other things that seemed like emergencies at the time. But, he said, “she was wise, she knew those balls would bounce back. Through it all, she kept her eye only on the crystal balls to be sure none of them came close to the ground because if one of those even cracked it would be hard to repair.”
It’s all about priorities. The only reason there is even an attack is because the priorities in scientology are so so skewed they just don’t get it.
They don’t get it because Ron set it up for them to be punished if they did get it.
Making looking and seeing, a punishable offense, is tyrannical and evil.
I’m sorry, the word evil seems at this point to describe this organization.
It’s a metaphysical evil.
“All men are your slaves” L Ron Hubbard
Thank you Mike and Leah. I have been riveted by this series since the first episode. This past episode was especially heartbreaking because I have suffered from mental illness since I was a child. I had panic attacks as young as 5 and depression since 10 or 11. I am genetically predisposed on both my maternal and paternal sides. I know the hopelessness and despair depression can cause and I am so sorry these poor people had to suffer so without medical help. It has been proven by neurologists over and over again by brain scans that mental illness is a PHYSICAL problem. Soldiers returning from war with PTSD have extremely different brain scans than from a control subject that does not have PTSD. I have a medical condition called Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, a neurological disorder where intenable pain signals are sent to the brain with no injury that should be causing such pain. In studying this condition doctors have discovered that this bombardment of pain signals not only damages the part of the brain responsible for mood and memory so everyone that has CRPS has Depression and the depression I was already predisposed to has only gotten worse since the onset of my disease.
I am disgusted by all the abuse this supposed “church” hands out to it’s parishioners, but I have special empathy for those having to not only be prisoners of the Co$ but of their own mind with no help. I feel blessed that I have been raised in a church family that is loving and caring and repeatedly teaches that as humans we will absolutely make mistakes and we have grace to cover those mistakes and also embraces me and my mental illness. I just cannot comprehend a “church” that expects it’s parishioners to be totally infallible and only punishes, rather than loving a person who is struggling.
Keep.up the good work and thank you for your bravery and passion for exposing these abuses.
Melissa (and others to whom it might apply), I recommend the work of Bruce H. Lipton, books and YouTubes. He makes it clear that none of us have to passively succumb to “bad genes” and shows that our environment (external, or chemical, psychological or “spiritual”) very much influences gene expression. This means that people can and do change the original genetic scheme. The idea that we are doomed to our original genetic expression is an old dogma.that has been used in negative ways. Please check out Bruce Lipton.
Mike, I don’t know if you saw it, but I was watching a youtube video,on blues piano playing and a Scientology ad trying to discredit Leah, the show and the people that gave their testimony came up at the beginning. If you to youtube and search for “3 blues piano licks to make you sound like a pro”, it’s the advertising at the beginning before the piano tutorial starts. I also gave you a link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAt-aD0ZLzo
Thank you for all you do, MIke and will do in the future. It’s great that you are finally shedding light on the subject of a story that needs to be told!
I think those ads are put up based on your own search history Mary, rather than being embedded into blues piano tuts.
I wondered about that, thanks.
It’s nice of scientology to help advertise the show for them. Anyone not inside the bubble will be instantly made curious as to why they are trying to discredit the show and tune in to see for themselves.
Love to see you sue the CoS, Mike for slander on the vicious wife beater stuff as slander, as legally defined, is what it is. Be a hoot to see the writers of the smear justify it as well as your ex wife testifying under oath. The CoS would be such a laughing stock, even Cruise might leave at that point.
I remember watching that video. All Mike was doing was trying to get in his car. Surrounded by screaming, out of control cult members.
The Church of the Big Lie…
Yeah, I saw it too. Mike has remarkable self restraint. Me, geezers they’d have in jail if a pack of assholes surrounded me hollering like that. But at least a couple of ’em would be eating through a straw for a while and have very expensive dentistry bills.
I agree, Joe. I was thinking the same thing.
Thirded!
It is so sad and it hurts me so much to see those intelligents peoples lying, accusing old friends (and worst) to save the public image of their “church”. It is another proof and a real fact… there is a deep and profond brainwash in Scientology.
There’s nothing they can do to save their public image.
I hope everyone takes a few moments to spread this on social media. If the world hears nothing else, they NEED to hear about how the church grotesquely disparages victims of suicide (and the surviving friends and family that TRULY love them) and also how Mike systematically demolishes their despicable response (their responses are no longer just “lame” to me, they’re downright demented).
Ah Mike Rindaah! You continually amaze me. You take the bull by the horns. ..with tenacity, eloquence and most importantly dox.
This Scientology ship is going to sink soon thanks to the honorable and brave work done by you, Mr. Rinder and Leah. Thank you for bringing the all these horrific stories of the victims (THAT MUST BE TOLD) of this awful cult to all of us once and for all, to understand this secret organization for what it truly is……..A CULT! Keep the pressure on this horrible cult by exposing them for what they are, mind controlling at its best. Lets hit them in their pockets get the IRS to look into their “tax exempt” status and watch them fall slowly but surely. Thank you and Leah for being the brave souls you are and saving one person at a time. Love you both!
Great post today, this all reminded of the pre hippie days when they ran around summoning ghosts with Crowley, Lavey and Parsons. As a survivor of the so called Burn(Take Everything) on a locket around Catherines neck, I know we are all dealing with the hanous memories of this cult. Wondering how many there actually are who fell victims of the early speed freaks. It hurts me to read the fabricated smut the Sea Org draws up. Sad that I am still on radar as one of the earliest satellite experiments funded by JPL and the Scientology founders.
Well said:The scientology clown car has driven off a cliff. But they think they are flying and are patting one another on the back about how smooth the ride is and how they have the planet in the palm of their hand.
Yeah,it has been a free fall..
The crash is coming.
Thank you for the enlightenment your show has provided. I never really knew what Scientology was about and so very proud that none of my family ever got involved. God bless you and Leah and keep up the good work.
The hate site says: “Right or wrong, I feel that Marie as Aaron’s wife was responsible for taking care of him.”
Well, Marie taking care of Aaron would have been slightly more possible if Scientology hadn’t forced them to live apart because Aaron was, for some period of their marriage, at a more secure facility than the one Marie was based at, so they were not allowed to live together and their interaction was either forbidden, monitored or was highly constrained.
It is a doubly egregious distraction because that might sound reasonable to outsiders who are completely unaware that S.O. people don’t drive home to their spouse and pets and watch a few hours of TV before going to bed.
Akin to:
Prison warden: “the prisoner wouldn’t have committed suicide if his wife had taken better care of him, although she was not on his list of approved visitors.”
Right, and what about her as Aaron’s mother (if you are going to assign blame to someone and view it through that perspective) shouldn’t she have been taking care of him also?
Thank you for your clear and concise rebuttal, Mike. It is incredibly sad to realize that Scientology staff appointed to write smear articles believe they are doing the right thing. Each of the smear packs Scientology mailed around the world about my husband, Jerry, and me in the 1990s contained a different version of how I killed my father. One said I shot him. Another said I tried to but couldn’t. A third said I was an accomplice … and so on. I have them all … A few years later, a young man who worked in the Office of Special Affairs at the time and wrote those smears, came to our home after he left Scientology to apologize. He said he would write one smear about us and submit it “up lines” to David Miscavige for approval. It came back marked “Not bad enough!” And back to work he went to make it worse … several times. The truth is my father was killed. But not by me. It took me years to get over seeing a picture of his dead body in those smear packs … a picture I had not known existed. Did Miscavige have to go to that length to make it “bad enough?” Apparently so … the greater the perceived enemy, the greater the smear. And it is still happening in the present …
Dear Hana, I’m so very saddened hearing about the circumstances of your father’s death. The anguish you obviously felt, and the incredible insult added to the injury by scientology just flies in the face of all that is decent. It’s a true testament to your strength that you not only survived an attack of this magnitude launched by the church, but are also able to share your story in an effort to help others. Thank you for allowing us to add yet another arrow to our quiver, I just regret that it’s made up of so much of your pain.
It makes mr sad to read this, I’m so sorry about your dad.
Was Marty in charge of implementing this Hana? Did you find this out?
Wow Hana that is so terrible you went through that! It just goes to show that they are so full of lies. The hate videos on me, by my own sisters, are horrific and they tell the most blatant lies, even going so far as to talk about my wonderful mother (RIP) and my relationship with her…..wow…..if I did not have such absolute confidence in my great, loving relationship with my deceased mother, it could have absolutely ruined me. But I know with all my heart that the sister is telling lies. And they have the balls to call us liars, bigots etc etc……. It boggles my mind. How do they actually live with themselves.
“How do they actually live with themselves.”
They don’t. They live with Scientology.
They don’t live with THEMselves, they live with CIRCUITselves which they they set up and which they PASS OFF as ” themselves”. After a while, the act becomes ” real” They forget that they set up the circuits and identify completely with the circuits. The circuits are NOT them, NOT who they are. If they were really being, who they really are, their real selves, THEY would be at risk for suicide. And this does not mean that any of them are “uptone”. There’s no such thing as an “uptone” circuit, no matter how cheerful it looks and behaves. If its a circuit, its a false beingness and its VERY low. People who ARE their circuits would need to come UP to being at the level of suicide.
People can do this in a healthy way, though. Actors do it. Lucille Ball was one smart cookie. She had fun with her dummy circuit, Lucy Riccardo. Archie Leach was a London guttersnipe kid who ran away to join a circus. He ended up in Hollywood and created a circuit for himself called, “Cary Grant” – handsome, urbane, impeccably mannered and dressed…it wasn’t him. But he knew it. He had fun with it, this made up personality. Once in an interview he said, “Everyone wants to be Cary Grant. Even I want to be Cary Grant”. Pithy, funny and true.
The problem is that these cultees forget. They become these – artificial beings that they’ve set up to replace who they really are – they become these – THINGS and forget that they’re not these things…
Actually, I should add that if done in a healthy way, with awareness, then what a person has set up is not a circuit, its a persona. The person can be this persona or another personal or be himself. If its a cirucuit, then its below awareness, and it runs the person, In other words, the being runs the persona but the circuit runs the being. eventually. Well, I’m not an auditor but you get the concept 🙂
Well said Aquamarine, and the main person they’re trying to be is Ron. The real question is who was he trying to be?
Good question! I’d LOVE to know! Maybe he had some picture, some persona he wanted to be…but, wait, of COURSE he had a picture of whom he should be! Absolutely! He had something posted up there, an ideal being, an ideal man that he should or could be, or that he actually was… yes, of course! He invented an ideal someone and then became it!
BUT! – i’m on a roll, now, bear with me, please – but, its possible that in the beginning his ideal was a persona that he was causitively being, but then, he drifted, drifted down tone, down, down and at some point FUSED with the persona and lost himself, forgot who he was and kind of HAD to be this thing which was now a circuit, running him…OK, you know what? I’m out of my depth. I’d better stop.
If scientology is such a “good” organization, then why don’t they support you and Leah when abuse is exposed? It would be very interesting if you and Leah discussed on a show on you think David Miscavige is reacting to the A&E series – on a personal level. Do you think he’s losing his mind? I ask you because you have been around Miscavige for so many years and have had to witness his reaction to many outrageous situations/abuse.
“Do you think he’s [DM] is losing his mind?”
He has, what other sociopathic dictatorial immoral manipulative narcissistic twisted irrational sadistical bigoted leaders of empires that have come before him, completely lost it. He just brushes his teeth.?
I know it’s already been said, but a church doesn’t act this way. A church, and their representatives, would act with loving kindness and offer forgiveness and understanding. They would reach out to their ‘attackers’ and suggest discussion of the issues. Make a real step toward clearing up any misunderstanding or dealing with illegal acts and/or poor decisions of others. At least i hope they would. It must be heartbreaking for those who spoke out to hear and see these reactions from their families and former friends.
One of the church’s comments that Mike posted above is: “…the Church does not treat those in need of mental health as Church policy has stated for years on our website.”
What a minute …. Isn’t Dianetics the “Modern Science of Mental Health”???? I thought that statement is part of the title of the Scientology bible, Dianetics.
They are such a failure both in their technology and their press statements.
Someone posted yesterday on some site that “suicides occur from within all forms of religions”. True, but most religions do not profess to be the be all, end all, of human capabilities, power and funnily enough – mental capabilities and sanity – or one could say mental health. Most religions just provide a path to worship a God and give support and compassion to those who stray from the flock.
Liars and hypocrites.
I knew right from the beginning of this years season that the Church would have extreme difficulty rebutting what is being shown as they would have to bash and trash victims, which is what the show is exposing. No matter what they say they appear heartless, callous and totally lacking in sympathy and empathy. They can scream and accuse all they want but it reflects badly right back on their policies and actions. You did not need to rebut today Mike, imho, as most of us are ex Scientologists and know how the church operates. but I do realize that there are never ins who visit this site and need to know the truth, so this post was needed for them. The church does not deal in truth when it goes after someone. It is their policy to lie and accuse. They believe that “number of times over = certainty” so if they continue to scream and cry wolf, eventually they think that people will believe there is a wolf out to get them. Not! They are falling into a trap on this one, because no one can justify what they have done and failed to do for and against these people. I applaud those who have the courage to stand up and tell the world about how the church operates! Way to go Mike, they are on the ropes, wildly swinging and hitting themselves instead!
Hurrah! Well said Eh-Eh!
I am so impressed at the bravery and commitment you show. A lot of us have always thought Scientology was evil, and they prove it every day. Keep on keeping on – you are amazing.
What amazes me is that, I thought scientologists were not allowed to watchbTV, look at the internet, read a newspaper etc, for fear of their members finding out the truth about this ” organization”. So why are they watching Leah and Mikes show ? If only negative is ever said about them, why are they even watching the show? They know they are getting exposed, and they are scared. Their smear websites are proof of that. What kind of ” church” or ” religion” spreads so much hate? If they are so good and do so much good, why can’t they defend anything or stand up to any questioning ??
They know it’s only a matter of time…… they’re going down and they know it!!! And I can’t wait to see it happen.
I think Mike meant they “haven’t” been watching he says how they “assume” it’s Mike & Leah on the show talking….they don’t seem to realize people are coming out of the woodwork to talk to Mike & Leah!!
DM watches. Somebody at OSA watches.
Mike, your comments to their statements are true and show compassion to the victims. Anyone with a conscience and a beating heart should be apologizing and giving condolences to the people who’s hearts are hurting for the people who took their own lives and the effects that has had and continues to have on the people who loved them. I applaud you and Leah for your continued efforts to bring justice for all the victims of this horrific organization and I pray that the members will see the truth and leave and tell their stories! Shut this place down by whatever means you can including the government entities that can bring them to justice! Again, I’m willing to assist your efforts in any way I can.
“hate campaign that has generated more than 500 threats against Church of Scientology parishioners”….HERE’S NUMBER 501: THE FEDS ARE COMING FOR THE MIDGET!
Now do I get my own “hate site”?……Don’t make me go to ….#502!
Ooo ooo! I want to be 502!
Ha ha! Thanks Python it also occurred to me that was an odd number. Not 487? 352? 638? Nice round number there….hmmmmm…….
Hey! Where’s my Italian buddy – I got some more “questions” for him/her???
Mike, such an excellent breakdown. It is truly astonishing to me that the parishioners accept everything the church tells them and do not look for themselves. Understandably, in the sense they know there are consequences to looking for yourself. But THAT is HUGE. And an unmistakably obvious illogic. Church members are literally not allowed to look for themselves.
The main reason I was declared suppressive (anti-social) was because I insisted on reading whatever I cared to. (and I refused to disconnect from my step-son – who was declared because he refused to disconnect….)
It is so disgusting how they try to portray you as a vicious wife-beater when it is CLEARLY untrue.
Being able to see both sides of the various stories keeps me satisfied that I made the right choice disagreeing with scientology’s policies. It is so totally obvious that they are willing to LIE about anything to “protect” themselves.
I would think many parishioners must wonder why the church is not suing these horrible liars.
David Miscavige is the one who beats people.
A leopard cannot change its spots is the perfect analogy for Scientology. You cannot take the insane out of scientology because it is baked into its DNA.
Trying to save the “good bits” of scientology is like trying to pick the undigested organic molecules out of a pile of dog shit.
I tried changing my spots once. Then I realized I had the measles.
German or regular OSD? 😉
Wynski (deep breath, courage in 2 hands),
I disagree. I think its possible to isolate and use “the good bits” from ANY religion, philosophy or spiritual practice.
I also think that “the good bits”, extracted from any or all of the myriad religious/spiritual/philosophical sources to date from life as we know it, are remarkably similar in their concepts, Contextual similaritiies, basic truths, said in a variety of ways, but essentially meaning the same thing.
For example, the Bible, IMO is filled with a great deal of myth and nonsense, but scattered throughout is workable wisdom, from the Old Testament and the New Testament. IMO, the Bible, when its good, is REALLY good, and when its not, is just really over the top stuff that has discard value only.Some of the stuff in the Bible is really horrible and cruel. But here and there are interspersed some reall gems and I think these gems are ancient wisdom and as such shared by other faiths and practices.
Having said all this, I agree that if you cherry pick what you like and what works for you out of Scientology, then its not Scientology anymore!
Certainly, in the Christian religion in which I was brought up (don’t ask, please 🙂 ) as re “The Word of God” aka The Bible, there is NO discernment allowed, you do NOT think, you do NOT evaluate, you do not pass go and collect $200, you BELIEVE, baby, and you believe it ALL, or else, well, you know where YOU’RE gonna end up…needless to say, what I do with the Bible, how I “use” the Bible, classifies me as NOT a Christian, thank you, and as such ultimately headed for, shall we say a very warm place, for a very long time ::)
Hell yes!
Aqua, I didn’t say it couldn’t be done. Just what it would be like trying to do so. Especially since L. Con Purloined anything good from elsewhere.
Wynski, , I see. I misunderstood.you:
“…I didn’t say it couldn’t be done, just what it would be like trying to do so”.
Well, apparently, what its like when we try to do this is interesting because individuals are effectively setting up their own, personal, unique, member-of-one “religions” which can have their identical, similar and differing points.
OK by me but then, one person’s self-evolved philosophy is another man’s heresy.
God Bless America..
“…LRH purloined from elsewhere”……
He didn’t have an original thought in his head. He wrote a fiction novel and nothing more. Orson Wells revisited except the con job lasted longer than a 2-hour radio play.
I love the comment that was put on the screen during the show that said Aaron’s wife signed an affidavit saying they were not responsible for his death/suicide. Lol– like she was equipped to determine that. Seriously? She was his wife, not the police!
Melissa – yes that made me think…..”was Scientology responsible for his death?” Guilty dog barks first!!
As you know, she had no choice….sign this OR everything you’ve ever had or known will be taken from you, like Mirriam….IF you sign this that you forgive your father…………..
COERSION at it’s best….DO THIS OR ELSE….
Attorneys and police love love love love love unsolicited denials.
http://brandtrust.com/not-i-care-what-you-think/
My first thought was ‘what kind of church would have anyone sign a document ‘exonerating’ the church from a suicide?’
You are a warrior. Don’t give up the fight. (And don’t forget Adelaide. We’d all love to welcome you back to our beautiful city that has probably changed dramatically since you last visited!)
Take THAT, Scientology.Awesome article,Mike.
Anyone who can see these people tell their stories and NOT believe them have no hearts. Either these people are telling the truth, or they are the greatest actors in the world, and each one should be nominated for an Oscar this year.
The “church” is seriously getting scared—-saying Lauren using this as publicity seeking stunt??? And her father the same– to help his “sagging” career??? As an outsider to this cult, I do not understand how educated adults continue to follow the “party line!” I don’t mean to pass judgement on those who have wised up and gotten the hell out of it–it’s what they grew up with and what they have known. But seriously, with everything coming to light these days—GET OUT—GET YOUR KIDS OUT!!!!! Every new episode continues to make my head want to explode!!! Keep on Mike and Leah!!!!
Does the cherch not understand, since yesterday, every YouTube video I’ve watched has had a Co$ commercial attached, which is due to my search history for Leah or Mike. My wife has not done so, so none have shown up on hers. Don’t they get it that ANYTHING that I or, I bet 90%+ of others, get from the Co$ is clicked through and discarded as utter BS and nobody is paying attention or believing their crap
Mike, fabulous analogy!
“The scientology clown car has driven off a cliff. But they think they are flying and are patting one another on the back about how smooth the ride is and how they have the planet in the palm of their hand.”
Yes, evil clowns…..
I’ve avoided seeing the smear sites as I don’t want to give them one view!
Keep up the great work Mike!
I just recently went back to 2014 and heard the phone conversation (argument) with your family. How sad
Right! I don’t go to those sites not wasting my time!!
Thank you for this rebuttal, Mike. Point by point you get specific and show their victim claims to be totally false and twisted to suit their purposes. What church makes people sign hold harmless forms and agree not to talk forms of their membership? Only the C of $.
Then they can trot these forms out later when people do speak out and show the forms and say, “See? She was very happy with the service she got from Scn.” In the ’90’s I was friends with a Scn notary. The church called this notary to have her notarize quickly a hush hush thing for the church and told her “not to talk about it with anyone.” The thing needing notarized was a typed statement from the church about a suicidal man and they had him sign the form saying he would not hold Scn responsible…” the form was coerced from him or else he could not get auditing. And it was signed in advance of any suicide attempt, as ammunition for the future in case he did commit suicide. I know all this because I happened to be there with the notary when the young man showed up to have his signature notarized. He didn’t write that statement. The church did. And they made him sign it or else he wouldn’t be allowed auditing.
Scientology is truly losing it. The people coming forward on your show are strong and amazing. Please continue this amazing informational show. It’s so important and hopefully stops someone else from falling victim to this cult
The Church of Scientology dramatizes its own insanity for example by saying that because:
Leah Remini called an engineer to her home to estimate the impact a crack in the foundation of her home would have on the whole residence, that she is insane.
I, along with a lot of other people do not see how such a statement even makes sense. So, it is not surprising that the church would put up hate sites on people. People that have shown that the Church of Scientology obviously has more crimes to hide than was originally suspected by anyone. 🙂
The whole organization appears to be nothing more than a crime scene Lawrence.
Yo Dave, Wrap some yellow tape around it and call it a day!
🙂
To say its a crime scene is theory , the action is to get investigators in side
The fact that the cult member said she was insane because she called an engineer to check out a crack in the foundation, proves that the cult member is completely insane. And probably beyond help…
The family’s of these victims should be ashamed! I guess there are no loved ones in this entity.
YouTube put their disgusting comments as ads, and I’m trying to get these ads blocked. I’ve been upset enough by these robots. I’m mourning for the still ins, and their money. No love to be found here, damn the cult!
I agree there is no love nor compassion that exists in this so called church. I feel sorry for those who believe that the way the church acts is quite acceptable. The people that come forward to talk about their experiences are truly the Brave heroes. I have not been asked to sign anything when I left my church. The COS is just embarrassing themselves with their smear campaigns. Keep up the great work Mike and Leah.