Things are progressing pretty slowly on “the wholesale Clearing of our area” when they are only working at it 12 hours a week.
As with many other “ideal” orgs — they have been moved away from the city center. They are not the worst, they are in the fairly near suburbs. Some have ended up in industrial parks and alongside freeways where there is no body traffic. The volume of people walking past orgs has traditionally been a measure of their likelihood of success. “Body routing” line has always been one of the few methods of attracting new people into scientology.
You see the staff from these ideal orgs sent to “apprentice” at the “model” ideal org in LA and they are invariably found standing on the corner of Sunset and Vermont in front of the subway entrance trying to entice people to come in for a free personality analysis. This is considered to be THE “successful action” on bringing in new public. They do the same thing at the “Life Improvement” center on Hollywood Blvd.
Seattle “ideal” org is now off the beaten path where there is no foot traffic. So, they have a “Life Improvement Center” in the downtown area, bought and renovated at great expense.
This is the sign on the front door of the Life Improvement Center.
Presumably, those who need their Life Improved in the morning or evening or on Tuesday, Thursday or the weekends should go elsewhere.
This is a reflection of the REAL state of this $20 million “ideal” org.
It does not have enough staff to man their main “new public entrance route” full time. And it is not considered a “viable” investment of the few staff they do have to try and get new public into scientology through their “Life Improvement Center.”
This is their idea of “wholesale clearing”???
The contrast between what they SAY and what they DO could not be more dramatic.
And Seattle exemplifies “ideal orgs” around the world…
Last time I checked, the Life Improvement Center in Seattle appeared abandoned though left furnished, like the one in St. Petersburg Florida. I believe that for a long time after the BLM protests, it was boarded up. The plywood is down now, but the Scientology locator site no longer shows any hours it is open.
Bought for 3.7 m in 2005, now assesses at over 8 M, closer to 10, since last assessment. Nice little nest egg here in the PNW. :/
Thanks for those numbers. There are indeed a few cities where Scientology’s real estate has increased significantly in value – but taking into account the millions they put into specialized and over-the-top interior renovations that probably don’t increase its value to prospective buyers, they may not actually be that much ahead.
And any gains like that, are likely more than countered by all the money pit projects in places like Detroit and Kansas city. Plus on top of that, there are the abortive projects in places like Boston (the first property, the Hotel Alexandra) and St. Louis (the German House) where they will certainly have lost significant sums while paying taxes and minimal upkeep costs (like grounds upkeep necessary to avoid city citations) as the properties deteriorated.
John P. has written about this from the perspective of a professional investor:
Scientology Ideal Orgs as Destroyers of Wealth, Part 1: The Strategy
http://www.reasoned.life/2018/05/ideal-org-1/
It’s a “High Crime” to close an org. But when Scientology finally falls, that “nest egg” will hopefully be going into the hands of aggrieved parties.
There’s an “idle org” here in my Southwestern Ontario, Canada city. Until recently, it’s sat mostly empty however it’s flickering sign invites us all to come in for an open house, every day, until 7 pm. Oddly, I’m noticing MORE cars showing up in the lot and a few days ago I saw a “Volunteer Scientology Ministry” van (nice decal paint job!) pulling out of the lot.
Is that the org that made the deal with several used car lots?
Every night, the used car lots park a bunch of different cars they have for sale. It gives the impression that a whole bunch of suckers are inside being fleeced. But it’s just the same old trick that many different con men have used throught the ages to make it look like something is going on when the truth is:
THEY AIN’T NOTHING GOING ON – EXCEPT IF YOU GO INSIDE,
You will be separated from your cash and your credit.
Don’t fall for this old trick!
When I read your “Idle Org” section, I checked out the Google maps on the one in my city. When you first put in the address, it looks like they are open. However, when you click on it, it shows that they are gone, the sign is gone, and it’s for sale. There were only a handful (as in literally 15 or so) of check ins on their FB page, and some of those were by accident or done as a joke. Sorry Scientology, not wanted here. It was open less than 3 years, I think. I feel awful for kids brought up in it, like Mike, who have no choice. Or people who were preyed upon because they were vulnerable. Or intelligent people who just wanted to do what they could to help. GGRR.
As of today, there are 472 people following the Seattle Ideal Org (Church of Scientology of Washington State) on Facebook. How many of those are active members? How many are maintaining a facade to avoid unpleasantness? How many are halfway out the door? How many are duplicate accounts, or dead folks?
I’m feeling really generous this morning, so I’ll pretend that 2/3 of those FB followers represent fully active, involved members. That’s about 312 people. And, given that not every Scieno affiliated with the Seattle org is on Facebook, maybe that’s a realistic number.
But here’s the thing: not all of them live in the Seattle metro area. Most probably do, but a significant number live in places like Bellingham or Spokane (which used to have missions, but no longer do), or Alaska or Idaho (which each have one mission for the entire state, but no orgs), or Montana (no missions at all). Still others may have moved away (including to LA or Clearwater), but still have ties to Seattle. They make it into the Org when they can, but it’s a big deal to do so.
So, once again being generous, let’s pretend that 2/3 are active and in the Seattle metro area.
That’s 208 people, in a metro area of roughly 3.8 million. That’s it (and, like I say, a generous estimate) And nobody new is walking in the door.
And, I should add, this doesn’t surprise me. In 2008, while protesting in front of the old org (on 99 just above the Mercer viaduct), I was amazed at how decrepit the building was. Sure, everything rots and gets furred with moss in no time here, because that’s what happens when it rains for eight straight months of the year and only dries out between June and September. But this was beyond what I’d expect of a decently-maintained building–this was years upon years of deferred maintenance and shoddy repairs. So yeah, sure–they’ve got their “Ideal” org, now. But that seedy, rotting pile I saw in 2008 isn’t banished to the past–its ghost is still very much alive.
Harmless, nice analysis.
Remember also that they will have likes or follows from people who are Scientology boosters in other cities, including members and staff who have visited the city and visited the org.
We can compare Seattle’s 472 Facebook followers to the Denver org, which has 678 likes and 69 checkins. There was recently information that Denver’s membership was around 75, with as few as 50 who were really active, and as many as 125 if less active members including those from outlying cities like Boulder were counted.
I have seen a number of other signs that 50 to 75 active members is an average for orgs, including in cities where they have an “ideal” building. They are literally at the point where the space in one of those big empty buildings, may be about equivalent to the combined living spaces of the residences of all the members who regularly use it.
Any Sea Org members or their loved ones peeking on this blog- if you want to help mankind and you don’t mind being underpaid and overworked, become a social worker. You’ll do better than you’re doing now not only for yourself, but for others as well.
+1! Right on!
Great point Kat. They will also have the freedom to live their life according to their own convictions, without having to live in fear of draconian repercussions if they don’t “toe the line”…..according to the daily whims and the “scriptural” interpretation of their supervisors.
“Presumably, those who need their Life Improved in the morning or evening or on Tuesday, Thursday or the weekends should go elsewhere.”
Heh heh, PERFECT! Our “sector of the galaxy”, in the throes of its desperate help, over all of these quadrillions of years of needing $cientology’s expert assistance… has business hours. Fuck that shit!
(cue the elevator music).
Like Mike said on the Ask me Anything #2 TV show…Exposing Scientology’s lies, horrible and hideous treatment of people, cloying over celebrities, especially Cruise & money grubbing excesses is the best way to take this cult down.
The Seattle downtown life improvement center is right next door to McDonald’s on the corner of infamous 3rd and Pike:
“The blights of addiction and unaddressed mental health problems plagued the block, and to the disgust of many, stepping in a pile of vomit or being called bitch for simply climbing onto a bus became common place.”
http://q13fox.com/2014/06/13/my-favorite-block-the-love-hate-for-3rd-and-pike/
If I perceived that CoS was eagerly trying to be a compassionate help to the addicted and the lost that are always around their door, I might see the choice of location as being to their credit, in and among the neediest in Seattle. But the addicts on the corner wouldn’t buy a copy of Dianetics, touted in the window, and of the times I’ve gone by, you won’t see anyone routing the homeless to come in for a cup of coffee and a stress test.
So the location is more likely to be because it is a busy corner near Pike Place Market. I’ve only ever seen one guy sitting at the desk, older fellow, reading a book or typing. He’s never out in the street clearing the planet.
Not far from there is a group called Operation Nightwatch, which dispatches volunteers to find homeless folks who are in the cold and rain, and to bring them to the place to get a hot meal, a blanket and assistance finding someplace to crash (usually in a municipal building lobby).
Thetantic, thanks for that information.
So it appears that the location is close to a prime area, but not actually in a good block itself. They might even have thought, optimistically, that the bus station traffic would provide them lots of good prospects, but then discovered that it was the wrong sort of environment.
In the old days when Dianetics and Scientology were able to “body route” more effectively, some of their downtown locations weren’t on the best streets, but they made them work by doing their recruiting in nearby good spots and then walking people over to their actual sites. A changed environment and different demographics seem to have left them unable to figure out anything effective to do.
ThetanicVersus has hit the nail on the head. No money? Then no compassion for you you flawed WOG.
This sickening display of inhumanity called Scientology, founded by a narcissistic “magick” conjurer (look it up), who had gross teeth and gross breathe (like seriously dude, get to a dentist, and then maybe get a haircut you washed up asshole… look up photos of him in his last days… ladies, this is your dream date … yep, I’d follow THAT clown around, no questions asked!)……. anyway, where was I going with this, got sidetracked… Who cares, Scientology cares NOTHING about the weak and wounded in our city streets.
The other thing that occurs to me, is that if Dianetics and Scientology had any “tech” that really worked, they would be able to help SOME of the homeless people. I understand that the homeless are a difficult population with many issues of mental illness and substance abuse, but it would be reasonable to expect that they could do something like offer them a cup of coffee and a personality test and then perhaps a bit of auditing, and find at least find some minority of people who could be helped – many other programs generate just those sorts of successes, often employing the use of Scientology’s dreaded competitor psychiatry and psychology.
Any ability to achieve some level of consistent results would be one of the ultimate validations of Scientology’s “tech” and would provide them with powerful examples to use in their public relations efforts. Instead they seem limited to recruiting a few star examples of members who were already successful or on their way to success, and making only the most general and unproven claims about being to help anyone else.
Agree completely. Considering the volunteer ministers, the “missions,” the Narconon facilities, one wonders why there seems to be no outreach to those in need, which would go a long way towards proving that they aren’t merely interested in $$$.
Instead it’s almost like there’s a caste system; anyone on the down and out is an “untouchable,” somewhat like the RPF folks. I’ve seen videos of CoS security being abusive to homeless people (filmed by protesters). If I understand the cosmology that Jon Atack, Mike Rinder and others have described, anyone succeeding has created that for themselves, anyone failing or suffering is likewise entirely to blame for their state of being.
It’s on a crappy block near a busy area. They used to be open all day and weekends. I suppose after the hype died down some of the newer staff realized that they’d never be able to eat properly or have enough money for rent, they routed off and went back to their lives. Meanwhile, with staff numbers dwindling only what resembled a skeleton crew remained. Thus their Div 6 activity, the one thing that could save their asses presumably, is relegated to 3 of the 7 days a week and not even all day. In fact, 12 hours devoted to Division 6 in a week.
And I can guarantee the other 80+ hours of their week is spent turned inward cannabilizing it’s existing public, being involved with petty quibbles, and having to answer to the all-wise (har har) Management, ya remember telexes right? Another antiquated system that always seemed to be crashing, at least in Seattle. Ahh but it’s fine if you spend a quarter of your day answering telexes to the “Senior Annoyance I/C WUS”.
At least ONE office in that 2 dozen BIS “Church” is busy. That’d be the DSA Office (Ann Pearce, Steve Bellingham though they have used Richard Hirst of Squirrel Busters fame along with others in the past). Lot’s of Seattle people have woken up. And will continue to. The secret is out:
The Church of Scientology is an abusive cult that manipulates and abuses it’s members while bilking tens of thousands, or millions depending on who you are, who has a number of front groups to convince the general public that they are all about caring and helping the world, while secretly looking for the best photo ops to use in their promotions to keep the racket going. All the while having a kangaroo court where the accused (you and me, obviously) get to be found guilty no matter how much evidence we provide or they fail to provide. They will destroy your family if they feel threatened by you for they ARE a cancer. Festering, leaching off of, and then spitting out the waste, only to repeat itself with the next “raw meat” as LRH would say, walks through their front doors.
Absolutely correct, sir. It is an utter miracle that I am even alive after my 23 years in the SO. I have no doubt that had I stayed another 2 months, I would now be dead.
Yesterday afternoon I drove by the Clearwater dianetics mission and there was only 1 car in the parking lot, and a girl dressed in black sitting on the curb in the parking lot smoking a cigarette. They can’t attract any people to a mission just a few miles from their main superdooper power building. I haven’t been able to figure out why they haven’t shut that place down by now. It’s been like that for years. How can they possibly pay any bills?
They keep the “mission” there as part of the “Smoke and Mirrors” so they can keep the Show On the Road.
It is a prop to ilicit sympathy from members to bamboozle money out of them.
If it still standing there, empty and no one comes in – it is making money — just not how your wog thinking would expect.
The Co$ uses it as a “prop” to bring wealthy members by – to fleece them out of as much money as they can.
They used Super Power Building for 20 Plus years and bamboozled $225,000,000 out of members.
The only reason it opened is because of Luis Garcia suing Scientology for fraud. (THANK YOU LUIS – you delivered a HUGE blow to the cult).
“We need the Cross for the building now now now now now – was said to probably hundreds if not thousands of members because “it works” when standardly LIED. $65,000 a pop = money maker.
How many times did the Co$ milk you for money using “sympathy” that Co$ is so poor and needs MONEY MONEY MONEY!
Everything Scientology does is for money.
Don’t kid yourself ever thinking that it is not!
+1! Outstanding post! It’s all about the money.
Maureen, that’s an interesting question to try to answer succinctly.
The basic answer is that Scientology has accumulated so much wealth from its followers, and a few remaining rich patrons, that it can run without needing much in the way of actual members. I can only think to compare it to the monastic establishments of medieval Europe, which were endowed with such wealth that they could build a vast structure of lavish buildings dedicated to the glory of God, and yet have almost nothing to do with the general public.
I think you could say that Scientology’s organizations were set up, in the end, to glorify the memory of L. Ron Hubbard as the greatest being to ever walk the planet – more so than Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed or any other. They seek followers perfectly devoted to him and his teachings, even if only a tiny number can meet their standards.
This may seem unsustainable, and it probably is in the end for a variety of reasons, but they’re obviously getting away with it for now with no major or official challenges to how they’ve always done business.
Questions, what’s with all these questions about fauna and such. It makes me want to give alternate answers to you alternate questions. Hey! We may have just found a use for Scientology after all, “alternativeisms.” You say yes, they say no… Whatever Scientology says, just reverse it.
This was a reply to Old Surfer Dude way down the page.
Dead cult walking, basically. How long it’ll stumble along is anyone’s guess, but the old zombie is certainly slowing down.
Oh Gus, PLEASE be correct in your forecast. I want to see the cult shamble to a slow death, rather than a blaze of glory like so many other cults in the past have gone out.
Too many good people still have productive loving lives ahead of them.
What scares me is that a deranged, twitchy psychopath still runs the show. What damage might he do to precious human lives before the corpse of $cientology is officially pronounced dead? Why did anyone give the toddler Miscavige a loaded gun in the first place??
I believe the Life Improvement Center is different from the org
As I commented elsewhere on this topic, it looks like that location might even be a mission-type franchise, though apparently opened about the same time as the new “ideal” org in order to try to keep a presence in a high-traffic downtown area.
Checking further, I see that there is a Seattle mission that is actually further to the North in Shoreline, with an address of a second story office suite that also seems to be the location of a financial services business. Their website hasn’t been updated in 3 years, but they list hours of Mon-Thurs 6-9:30PM, Sat 10AM to 5PM.
These are good for Miscavige, after all that is what he has been working for 24/7: steal and amass money and let the orgs silently died one after another.
As long as he can promote “new ideal orgs” and the public donates, the barley known to the ‘wogs’ ecclesiastical leader continues to be happy. The rest, as far as he is concerned, can go to hell.
Thank you Mike for keep exposing these facts.
Seattle was my org. While I was on staff, I spent the entire time trying to convince everyone that we should pay attention to the well being of the staff as part of normal organizational activities to ensure long-term survival. They had told me that if I didn’t like something about CofS to take responsibility for it and change it.
What I didn’t like is that they sometimes displayed symptoms similar to that of a ruthless mind control cult out to get all of the money for the leader instead of the actual “greatest good” across ALL “dynamics” including staff and their families.
Unfortunately, they turned out that avoiding having to take responsibility for the staff and families in return for their hard work through human trafficking is a better idea, and lots of Execs around Seattle (and LA) think so and act on it. I was not able to persuade them to act decently.
CofS in a nutshell: providing adequate exchange to support life is bad but threatening a reluctant volunteer with the destruction of their family to force them to work for free against their will is perfectly acceptable.
They deserve to go down so they cannot trick and trap anyone else.
Is the main org itself still keeping up their hours? Their website lists:
Mon-Fri 9:00am – 9:00pm
Sat-Sun 9:00am – 5:00pm
But the website says that the Life Improvement Center is supposed to be open those same hours, too. My guess is that they need what few staff (and volunteers) they have to work at the main org where they still have existing members coming in, and that there is so little traffic at the Life Improvement Center that they are counter-intuitively only opening it during off hours, when they can spare staff to keep up appearances.
The idea they seem to have had for a couple of years, of moving the orgs out of the city centers, but trying to have these smaller Life Improvement Centers in central areas with high foot traffic, appears not to have worked out. I think I’ve seen more recently that they may have tried using the name Life Improvement Center on missions or similar outer orgs, apparently trying to find a way to avoid using the tarnished Dianetics and Scientology brand names.
I remember a discussion over at the late, semi-lamented South African blog where they talked about the Joburg-area Test Center (Life Improvement Center in all but name). After they pulled a creative accounting scam to the tune of nearly a million dollars from another org’s ideal org fund to open the thing, it opened to no results whatsoever, so orders were given by the truly lovely, wonderful, and caring Albert and Sandra De Beer* to abandon the place, wasting that million dollars.
Then a Sea Org mission plowed into town like the bulls in a china shop that they are. They discovered that the Test Center wasn’t being manned and were not happy about that. So the org started sending over people on a part-time schedule like the one at the Seattle cesspit. Once the Sea Org blew town, and the person who kept the Test Center open, Gavin Slender, died, the Test Center fell to ruin. The pictures that someone took from the outside were truly lulzy.
You wanna bet this place is being kept open even part-time because of some pressure from the Sea Org or “command intention”?
* – Purely sarcastic. From what I’ve read, those two make the Borgias look like Puritans.
Espiando, thanks for the details of the South African debacle.
I looked that up, and I assume that you are talking about what was known as the Braamfontein Test Centre. But press releases referred to it as “The World’s Largest Scientology Life Improvement Centre” and the signage on the building says Dianetics & Scientology Life Improvement Centre.
Scientology seems to have tried using the Life Improvement Center name for a couple of years, in some cases leaving off all reference to Dianetics and Scientology. Some of the locations were actually “mission” franchises, as Seattle may be, but your story of the financing of this one suggests that others were part of nearby orgs.
I can’t right off find any update information about Scientology in South Africa at all. Sort of like they’ve dropped off the face of the earth….
I was on NYO staff back in the 60’s Howie Rower, the franchise owner in the village – lower east side of NYC invented the idea of handing out tickets on the street. Hubbard glommed onto the idea and made it policy. I spent many a cold December day handing out tickets in the freezing weather, only to turn around and see a trail of discarded tickets on the sidewalk behind me. Howie realized it was a terrible form of dissimulation and discontinued it. The best is FSMs and word of mouth. But Hubbard, wrapped up in his outflow = inflow mantra never saw what a waste it is and never ditched it.
So much for the inventor of obnosis’s ability to use the fruits of his own research.
Mimsey
Mims, nice to know that it didn’t work fifty years ago. If body routing didn’t work in 1967, how the hell is it going to work in 2017, when Google is in your pocket or you can ask Siri or Cortana to tell you everything you need to know about Scientology?
Hey, Dave, let me give it to you straight: It doesn’t matter what L. Fraud said about body routing. Potential fresh meat has continuous and voluminous access to all of the entheta about the cult available. Come to present time.
Mimsey, I can remember the printing of the single fold “You Are Cordially Invited” cards. I can’t say it did or didn’t work, but I do recall that LRH personally declared the NYO, Day and Foundation in a condition of Power. It remained that way for quite a spell and was still doing well in ’69. It was also one hell of a lot of fun! I remember Howie, too, and at least two other NYC missions which were flourishing.
They don’t look like there open at all here in Seattle. We don’t put up with Scientology crap.
They must have 3 staff members to run those hours. And those hours must be their time off from their real jobs. Seattle is a very expensive place to live. I can’t see anyone making rent payments and eating on staff pay.
Seattle, putting the mortuary in the mOrg. The clam collapse has begun.
A couple of weeks ago, Mike posted a plea made by the Org for affordable staff housing in Seattle. Essentially, one of the faithful who might have a rental available was supposed to subsidize a staff member by giving them a place to stay at well-below-market rates.
But of course, this wouldn’t count as a donation, and no credit toward services was offered in exchange. And I hardly think the regges would give the donor any sort of pass due to reduced income as the direct result…
Just this morning, Saturday, I woke up and thought “I need to improve my life. Where can I go?” Too bad I didn’t think that Monday afternoon.
I know Sea Org members work practically around the clock, but what about regular Org staff members? Are they only working 12 hours a week? And do they get paid full-time wages? Or are they housed, fed, and paid like Sea Org members as well?
If they’re full time, what else would they be doing the other approximately 28 hours in the work week? I haven’t studied much about how regular Org staff operate.
In some ways, SO actually get more in return for their work. They usually get food (though it may be disgusting, depending on the time and location) and a roof over their head. On staff, you are on your own – and you had best not let your personal or family issues interfere with your staff post.
There were a number of years where my “pay” was $500 for the year. They told me the entire time that I just didn’t produce enough to deserve a living wage.
What had actually happened was that Int Management had the org move to a building much too large and expensive for them and rent furniture to prepare for the Goodwill Games,which were going to overwhelm the org with new public due to CofS advertising.
When the org was not flooded, Management left the org in the lurch, abandoned to struggle with their mega high operating costs and empty building. That is about when I was recruited, told once again that I should easily make a couple hundred bucks a week to live on, which I did not think was much to ask for.
For several years, on those occasions when there might have been pay, the payroll was taken and applied to the back rent and keeping the phone turned on. We often couldn’t afford toilet paper. The heat was turned off. I have heard of staff living off rice with ketchup, rice with Mustard, rice with ketchup, ramen and even going days without food.
Oh, yes, the 1990 Goodwill Games. Dianetics was one of the sponsors and that was supposed to be a *huge* deal. “Driving new public into the Org…” etc. etc. A crock of shit, as always.
Thanks Gene. Sounds like if you start making money, another level of the church tries to get more of a cut of the proceeds. I do remember seeing a Regraded Being strip (maybe 2 of them) that referenced staff not even being able to afford toilet paper. The claim that they “make the able, more able”, yet here are their own “able” folks eating rice and ketchup/mustard or other malnutritious diets just to survive. Just shows, yet again, how this organization takes advantage of the good intentions of their own members.
Thank you so much for sharing more about how your life was on staff. And Mick, thank you for always asking such good questions. Mr. Trujillo, my heart goes out to you for all of your wasted years but your voice here will help others. I am so happy you realized the many, many ills of Scientology. Would you mind sharing what it was that tipped you over the edge and led you to say you were done? Those of us never-ins are learning more every day and everyone’s story is so important.
“staff living off rice with ketchup, rice with Mustard, rice with ketchup, ramen and even going days without food.”
Tom Cruise, did you know this? Were you aware of this? Are you so far gone that you can’t see this? You are crossing a line, brother, from ignorance into complicity. You better get the fuck out of Dodge, and fast. Your name will be either honored or disgraced. The choice is yours.
It is NOT a “privilege” to call yourself a scientologist. It is an admission of guilt.
I have come to believe that LRH had an aversion to toilet paper. I know of no org…ever…which did not have staff complaining aboug “no toilet paper”, not even the NYO when it was in Power. Smart staff brought a roll to work from home, kept it locked in a drawer and, if necessary, took it home at night. I could never figure out the why of it. LOL
Heartbreaking to hear of the conditions you suffered on staff. Rice has no protein. At least beans has some. Prisoners in jail have it better than staff members and prisoners have harmed others or murdered others and they get treated better than staff members and eat better, get more sleep, have exercise time and TV’s and weight lifting and a library… I could go on but I”ll stop.
Mick, hopefully someone can better address your question about regular org staff, but I will add my observation that Scientology orgs seem to rely quite a bit on part-time staff and volunteers these days – I would love to see someone with recent inside experience provide information about the specifics of just what is going on in the orgs.
I did a bit of checking in corporate databases, and it looks like the Seattle Life Improvement Center might actually be a mission “franchise” under a new name that is being tried out to avoid obvious associations with Dianetics and Scientology. It could even be the case, in a reversal of what has happened with a lot of missions these days, that the Center is in the storefront but the mission holder is running their business out of the back – often what turns out to be the case, is that missions are now run out of a back room of something like a dentist’s or chiropractor’s office.
p.s. Mick – since I don’t have any way of contacting you privately, I’d like to say here, if that is you posting on another site with the avatar of a crossed-out Scientology symbol, I think we should stay focused on opposition to the abuses of the Scientology organizations and avoid anything that could be take as anti-religion.
Thanks PeaceMaker. If they don’t have a need for a full-time staff, that’s pretty indicative of the dwindling level of influence this philosophy of Scientology currently has in these communities.
As to your last point, yes, that’s me on the other site (I only post at these 2 sites). However, I’m a bit unclear what comment I may have made that could be misconstrued as “anti-religion”.
I’m certainly not “anti-religion”, actually quite the contrary. I’m a practicing Christian and take my family to church every Sunday. I’m heavily involved in our church Leadership and with various youth activities. That being said, I certainly don’t think that I could personally be held up as the “ideal role model” of a Christian, mostly due to the fact that I’m very far from being “perfect”, in addition to my natural skepticism.
I don’t care if anyone wants to practice Scientology, although I will concede that I have some pretty big concerns with one of Scientology’s core tenets of ridding oneself of his or her “reactive mind” (or any other part of a person’s mind), which I find could possibly be a bit dangerous.
Or maybe you’re referring to my actual avatar on that site. From my understanding, that is a symbol of the “church” (or the organization itself led by DM). I believe the symbol for the religion is the 8-pointed cross. If I’m misinformed, please let me know. I certainly don’t want to come across as some passionate attacker of the religion as a whole, but I am a passionate attacker of the organization as they currently operate in their treatment of their own parishioners.
Perhaps I should just change that avatar to my photo anyway (like I have here) so there is no misconception of my intentions in my decision to use that avatar. But if you’re referring to a particular comment (or comments) that I have made, please let me know so I can be more cognizant of that.
Thanks, Mick
P.S. PeaceMaker, disregard my question about the Scientology symbol. I just got home and was able to check it. It appears the symbol I was using is actually for Scientology (KRC and ARC triangles). My apologies for my ignorance. I’ve changed my avatar to the same as here.
Please still let me know if your comment was in reference to any comment(s) I made over there. Thanks.
Mick, orgs still probably need all the staff they can get for their high administrative overhead and make-work projects – witness how their central files are always falling years behind. The shortage of staff is probably what’s more representative of their problems (though from what I hear, typically, it has always been a weakness), and I’m sure they will take all the full-timers they can get (who they pay little if anything anyway, which is part of the problem in recruiting them), but then they’re left filling in with part-timers and volunteers.
p.s. Your comments and questions have always been earnest and reasonable. I just thought that your use of a symbol that could be seen as “religious,” crossed-out, could be taken in the wrong way. Even as intolerable as the current CofS regime may be, I still think it is more important, and more effective, to focus on abuses like disconnection and human trafficking, and holding the current leadership accountable for their misdeeds – things that quite a few CofS members might agree with – rather than to be seen as attacking institutions or beliefs. Also, anything that could possibly be seen as bigotry, plays into the strategy that the CofS leadership uses to rally members around the organization by painting outside criticism as hateful.
Thank PeaceMaker for your insight again. The fact that they have to beg for help with organizing the files (and begging multiple times at that) is another indication of the difficulties this entire organization is going through. Seems no one is able to get the volunteers necessary to get this completed.
As to my use of the “anti-Scientology symbol”, point well taken. When I first started posting there, I thought it was a statement of being anti-CoS (the organization), not anti-Scientology (the entire religion). My avatar has been updated over there now.
The Life Improvement Center of Seattle is now closed for business except at the following hours in which you are most likely at work anyway…
And the Scientology Cult Ideal Org Scam chugs on through increasingly very rough seas. I am trying to wrap my head around Asho when it was on all cylinders only opening 1:00 to 5:00 three days a week, cannot see that. The Mighty are Falling & that includes you Miami. Thank you Mike, a treasure you are. ?
Dave,
Yanking Update:
So what if your new Valley Mortuary building is not yet painted on the back and sides? The front of the building looks done and you have the Signage up. You still have time to yank before the 13th and get a photo opportunity. You can use your Sump to fake the interiors with a computer fly-through and no one at Flog will know that the place is not done yet. Or, that your building is dwarfed by the apartment complex across the street. But you CAN use it for Hubbard’s 106th Birthday Con. Then, like Seattle, you can go to a 12 hour, 3 day schedule. At least that is more than the Christian Science Reading Rooms’ 2 hour, 2 day schedule.
Keep in mind that military action is on the table to take out Kim Jong Un’s regime and ballistic capabilities. Where did you get the idea that judicial prosecution is not on the table to take you out for your blatant human trafficking, undue influence and criminal pimping?
Forget about the donkey punches with Lou, practice your sucker punches for prison.
I am so disappointed to learn of the new ideal org going in here in my hometown of Ventura, CA. As noted in a previous post, at least the location is very inaccessible to a lot of traffic. While the building itself can clearly be seen from the 101 freeway, to get to that building is a little tricky. And there is absolutely zero foot traffic on that road. None.
I did services at the local mission here which was run by Tom and Cathy Steiner in the 80s and early 90s. I also did services at the old Santa Barbara org. That org is where I saw the changing of the guard video in 1986. Of course I was only 11 years old but its etched in my brain.
I don’t even know if there is still a mission here or not. I know it had moved a few times from its original location.
So that is what a ecclesiastical train wreck looks like!
The only aspect of a Cof$ facility which isn’t offensive is that they are not very noisy. I don’t live anywhere near one but it seems they are closed more than they are open and the staff for the most part hide inside. A small & meaningless observation I know, just trying to remain positive.
Wonder what’s for breakfast?
To start to clear Seattle it will be necessary to create Clears at a faster rate than the projected growth in population of 0.5 million over the next 30 years. This equates to the creation of a minimum of 27 Clears for each hour the Life Improvement Centre is currently open. Good luck with that.
And…..it will cost a person from raw meat to Clear $135,000 on average. There are people who are strapped by student loan debt working two jobs….. who has that kind of cash?
I have that kind of cash. It’s Monopoly money, but, it still makes me happy!
It’s like they aren’t even trying. Really do they know anything about marketing? If they did why not just open on the weekends when people are casually shopping and not in such a hurry?
The irony of only 12 hrs a week is that I remember the day when the Course Sup would bust your chops if you didn’t get in your requisite 12.5 hours of study time a week. It was 12 and a HALF hours per week to be considered a “standard schedule.” So now the church isn’t even fulfilling their own rules of studying a minimum of 12.5 hrs a week. My how they have fallen!
LRH’s definition of a WOG: Someone who is not even trying. That, and the current emphasis on money. We have a bunch of WOGs running the Church.
When I read that the Seattle Idle Morgue was open 12 hours a week, my first inclination was that Mike had made a mistake! Now, 12 hours a DAY I can certainly believe. But when I saw the actual hours, I was floored! Open 4 hours 3 days a week says to me that they’re giving up. And this is one of the vaunted Ideal Orgs? And it cost 20 million dollars??? The party is definitely over….
Mike, this is not surprising news. For a couple of reasons. One is that there has been more than one mission in the city of Elizabeth, NJ (which is the home of the original Dianetics Research Foundation and there is a small park in the city named L. Ron Hubbard Park). The Scientologists responsible for both of these effects have long since moved out of the area. David Miscavige is currently false reporting to Scientologists unprecedented church expansion but the Elizabeth, NJ “Dianetics Scene” has boiled down to a bilingual “referral point” in the back of a dental office on Westfield Avenue. Nobody wants to get involved in Scientology any more. It is very sad that Scientologists consider this unprecedented expansion, whether it was they or David Miscavige who made up the story. 🙂
In addition the former mission BEFORE the dental office one, was only open 16 hours a week. 🙂
5,000 Miles from each other, 12 years apart, but not much difference between events on the east or west coast is seems. 🙂
A Scientology Mission in Elizabeth, NJ IN THE BACK OF A DENTAL OFFICE? OMG, Lawrence, I am totally, TOTALLY cracking up!
People, forget the cult, go to the dentist! The pain you receive there will only be temporary! 🙂 🙂
God, I would hate to attempt to body route anyone today. Besides getting a earful of how hypnotized I am (because of the Leah Remini show), I would have people saying they feel sorry me and probably offer to help me escape…. Scientology WAS not very well known. Now the butcher, baker and candlestick maker know about Scientology!
Robert, I was a body router for the Honolulu mission back in the mid 70s. I’m pretty outgoing so I was able to bring in tons of people. Most of them didn’t start on course. And this was before the internet (that Hubbard failed to predict)! Now? Scientology doesn’t stand a chance…
I suppose that Scientology can have a chance of expanding if they’ll start recruiting at a part of the world in which most of the population is illiterate and lacks an internet connection. The downside (for David Misgarbage) would be that most of those new recruits would not have a lot of money to give the cult.
The cult is doomed…
…and damned! 🙂
Nice!
I remember one Div 6 staff from the Milano Org in the early 80’s telling me how he did body routing (this is just one example). He would approach a group of young people and ask them excitedly, “What is your jacket size?, and yours, and yours?” (talking quickly) The people would answer and he would tell them, “come with me!” and run them around the corner into Div 6 and try to get them to take a personality test or what ever.
THAT was THE successful action in Div 6 Milano org circa 1982
Mike, I can talk pretty quickly! Maybe I should give it a shot!
The successful action in the SLC Mission in the early 80’s was to send out the “Fox Patrol.” They would send out foxy women in mini skirts to get people in. And they would send out one very good looking guy to body route the women in. It worked. (ps, “foxy” means sexy and good looking for you younger folk.)
What is most interesting about this discovery is that the Life Improvement Center has perhaps one of the best foot traffic patterns of any Scientology facility. It’s located right in the heart of downtown, about two blocks from the famous Pike Place Market, perhaps the biggest tourist attraction in Seattle, and it’s in the major downtown shopping area, about two blocks from Nordstrom’s main store.
They then take that location, which is near some of the highest foot traffic in the Northwest, and then open the building on three weekday afternoons, which is when people are at the least likely to have time to come in and learn about all the wonderful “tech” Scientology offers for discovering and then removing thousands invisible dead space cooties from your skin on OT VII, a problem most people don’t know they have.
The logical thing if you are trying to get actual stats of new “bodies in shop” would be to be open on the weekends when there are more people with free time wandering around the neighborhood. Then have every body router you could get out there.
But noooo… here’s another example of Scientology doing its best to hide in plain sight in a way that produces absolutely nothing. And instead of actually applying common sense to the problem, they’re all sitting in endless staff meetings being harangued for terrible stats and they’re all blaming Leah’s program (or whatever the “wog” boogeyman of the week might be). Just another laughable example of how their super powers to “confront and shatter” regular humans is a complete joke.
I wonder if anyone in church management ever harangues David Miscavige for his stats. That would be something to see.
Trouble is, that would only happen once, and the SO member who did it would never be heard from again.
Maybe the hidden agenda of Dave’s is not to get stats up. Maybe he purposefully picks buildings with no foot traffic so as to hide. Maybe he doesn’t really care if Scn expands for real. Maybe the real agenda of his is to get good real estate so that he can later liquidate the real estate, take the money, and run. “Look, don’t listen!” is good advice to uncover real motives.
I agree regarding DM using real estate to line his coffers, until he blows with all the money, but how long can it possibly go on?? The fact that he has kept up the sham and still has people believing all the bs stories regarding how they are saving the planet with made up stats, is amazing and beyond comprehension! But now with orgs down to a skeleton staff, no new recruits etc—how can anybody possibly believe it?? I admit, I am a wog that got interested in Scientology due to living within an hour of Clearwater and because of all the recent coverage on social media regarding Scientology. It will be interesting to see how their upcoming charity/fund raising events pan out–L.Ron’s bday, etc. If they still are all out, over the top AND if they still have members dropping millions– after the mass amount of recent coverage in the media.
+1! Absolutely!
I think it’s most likely that Miscavige, and the senior staff around him, are just trying everything they can to keep up the appearance of growth and to stave off collapse, hoping that something will finally turn things around for them – up to and including the actual return of Hubbard himself (which some of the others, if not Miscavige, appear to believe in). History shows that most cult and totalitarian leaders are in it for the game, and will never quite.
The purchase of real estate keeps up that appearance both for the faithful and to some extent to the outside world as well, and probably also serves a specific purpose of forestalling some looming problems with the IRS over having too much in reserves and not enough apparent activity. The empty idle orgs may be a sham that will eventually be exposed and collapse, but it probably buys them some time.
Cindy, since DM holds the most senior management position in the Church, his stat (the ONE stat LRH dictated measures the success of Int Scn management) IS up.
Seattleite, here. The biggest problem with the location is that it’s on Third Street. If it was on Second or Fourth, it wouldn’t be so bad. But Third is…well, let’s just say that, thanks to all the bus routes that run along it, Third Street presents a never-ending spectacle of how far down the Tone Scale humanity can go. You will see stuff on Third that just makes your brain lock up because holy shit, what did you just see? Last time I was down there, it was the old lady who stopped dead in the middle of a busy sidewalk, hiked up her skirts, and unleashed a torrent of pee. When she was done, she simply dropped her skirts and kept on moving, dripping as she went. That sort of thing.
So when I’m telling naïve suburban or rural out-of-towners how to get to Pike Place Market on transit, I suggest they avoid Third Street. And when they don’t, they inevitably come back with a story about what they saw.
And that’s what any storefront business located on Third is up against. A while back–was it at the Bunker, or here?–someone posted a pic of a very unwelcoming sign posted at the entrance to the Seattle Life Improvement Center, regarding potential trespassers and the staff’s right to refuse entry. And it was held up as an illustration of “Ooh, look how mean and unchurchlike the Co$ is!” But lots of businesses on Third have the same type of sign, because they routinely have to deal with disruptive people who are not paying customers, or who would drive other paying customers away.
So that location is an automatic barrier to attracting foot traffic because nobody who has any money to spend on the Co$’s services is going to stop in front of their display windows and linger as they decide whether to go in or not. (And the people who don’t have enough money to be Scienos, and never will, are all at the McD’s next door.)
But frankly, it doesn’t really matter. They could open a Life Improvement Center in upscale University Village and still not get any foot traffic (except maybe a few prankster college students), because there’s enough info out there, and the public now knows to stay away.
I’ve only been to Seattle once … but NOW I think I’d like to go there again and check out Third St … and yes, OF COURSE it would be on M, W or F between the hours of 1-5 … haven’t done an OCA in over 20 years … might be fun … you know, slumming it … still remember the oyster ommelet I had at Pike Market …very good
Recently over at the UB, someone uncovered that the Seattle Life Improvement Center is actually around 13,000 square feet, with just a small entryway at street level and an elevator to a large suite on an upper floor. It was apparently set up by a Seattle member “whale” who is a developer, and must be the mission holder/franchisee under this re-branded name.
There’s also one of these in Tampa that appears tied to another “whale.” It’s also nicely appointed, so apparently they are positioned as sort of “ideal” mission franchises sold to members who can afford to set them up lavishly, and subsidize their ongoing operation – apparently they ran short on staff at one point, but the recent check on them confirmed that they’re still open.
Sounds like they have other fish to fry. They are probably off horse racing or bowling.
Or fundraising…oh wait, that would be off policy 😉
Or fishing… the fish have to come from somewhere.
Do fish swim? Or, is it all just a joke? My ‘alternative facts’ ask, Do fish fly & do birds swim? And don’t start with those flying fish stories…