This was sent to me by a Special Correspondent.
OMG.
What is a mother doing putting a 10 year old through this program? Paying good money to have her engage in something that is at best completely useless and at worst physically harmful (See my earlier post Danger of Niacin). Apparently this woman understands how stressful and physically debilitating the Purification program can be as in her proud “announcement” of the fact that her daughter didn’t even complain about 5000mg of naicin and handfuls of vitamins she had to swallow daily.
I guess this is another example of someone saved from the horrors of addiction with the Purification Program they can include in their cumulative total of “lives saved from addiction.”
Apparently, this is what the “ideal” org in Tampa – the one that is “almost double SH Size” and “almost has stage 1 of it’s CF filing done” – is doing for “production.” What a huge, and potentially dangerous, waste of time.
Sonya Houghton should be ashamed of herself.
Back in 1981 I was for some weekends Purif in charge. The Niacin started with 100 mg. Each day the PC had been asked about Niacin reactions. If he had no reaction any more then the dose had been increased to 200 mg. The typical completion time was 10 to 14 days. So, no one came near those 5000 mg. The rest of the vitamins and else had been adjusted. So, some balancing took place. Some “manger type” people wanted a higher dose of Niacin as they always play the game “I am better than you” , “I am now on 1000 mg Niacin and you are only at 500”. This had to be handled by the Purif I/C.
To all the people complaining that this is pointless for children: That rather supposes that the purification rundown ever has a sensible purpose…
While I would never deny that the “registrars” of the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology are also motivated by the very religious teachings(1), the acceptance on the part of the parents of this nonsense process comes from the general leaving behind of critical thinking.
And we’re chasing the effects of BTs from other world (no, not aliens! – ehrmm).
http://tonyortega.org/2015/09/02/why-scientology-can-never-submit-its-drug-rehab-quackery-to-scientific-review/comment-page-1/
(1) LRH’s edict to “MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY”
What POSSIBLE drugs and toxins could a 10 year-old have ingested that would warrant her doing the Purif? I went through the motions when El Con introduced it, even though I’d done no street drugs to speak of and so few Aspirins,,etc that I could count the number that I’d taken; Our family just didn’t take any drugs unless REALLY needed and I was in SCN already when I turned 21 so could drink freely. My first binge-drinking was at Flag parties – – Hot buttered rum, it was.
to Jens…the purif isn’t needed for everyone, however, I wouldn’t depend on Ortega for the end all truth about LRH’s intentions, or scientology for that matter. He has made a career out of reporting the supposed ‘truth’, but he isn’t like Marty or Mike or other true whistle blowers who were in deep. His intention is to degrade EVERYTHING and EVERYONE regarding Scientology. His motivation is clear…make headlines, make money, make headlines, build my career and become popular, make more money… He wouldn’t accept one piece of truth about LRH or any of Scientology because he has never experienced it and he couldn’t experience it. He has never honestly given press to anyone who has truly experienced wins because it doesn’t fit his agenda. He uses the celeb names in connection to his entheta …like mentioning Cruz and Travolta to appear ‘balanced’ and to draw attention. I’m not an advocate for the church for years now, but I know that Otega’s upward mobility as a journalist is ironically due to his attack mode and sensationalism.
So… you really like Tony Ortega, huh? lol.
Yea, can’t ya tell LOL. I think much of what he says about cofs is truer that most reporters, and he seemed to be on top of it, but that is when he was getting his infor from people like Marty and Mike.
julia, the purif is pure quackery. It does NOTHING that El Con said it did (medical science shows that) except make you sweat and possibly destroy your liver.
If you want to be a criminal and promote a medically dangerous procedure go ahead but don’t expect people to not call you out on that criminal intent.
Thank you Mike Wynski. You always speak from the heart and with the strength of your convictions. Sometimes we agree (like right here) but even if we don’t, I always respect your honesty and your courage to stand up and say what you feel is right.
Back at ya TJ. Thanks.
To Mike….Can you show me the medical science proof that it doesn’t work. What tests were done and by whom? Thanks.
Also, who has had their liver destroyed by it?
Can you show me proof that the Putrif does work? Medical science proof? No, you can’t, because there isn’t any. Scientology has never allowed a standard scientific test of the claims of the Putrif, and never will. In fact, a glance through any biology, biochemistry, or physiology textbook will show you it doesn’t work the way L. Fraud said it does. Hint One: LSD isn’t fat-soluble, so it doesn’t hang around in the body. It breaks down and gets excreted.
Maybe you think that Wikipedia is biased against L. Fraud, but take a gander at this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Pharmacokinetics
“I know that Ortega’s upward mobility as a journalist is ironically due to his attack mode and sensationalism”
Arrangance and ignorance good bed fellows do not make.
I dearly wish you all the best on on your continued recovery.
This shit makes me so angry. This is straight up child abuse. It’s incredible that $cientologists believe they can “sweat out toxins”. Ummm, no. Try doing just a little research. Doesn’t work that way.
You are so right… they are not qualified to perform medical/nutritional procedures on anyone, especially not on children. The deaths at Narconon should not have occurred; there are several lawsuits due to this, and it follows that at some point in the not too distant future there will be someone who suffers from medical problems due to the ‘purif’ and sues. They are really playing with fire, certainly when giving massive doses of vitamins to children.
They gave the child 5000 mg of niacin a day? A quick google search shows that the recommended dosage of niacin for children should not exceed 30 mg. At higher doses, it can cause: flushing, itching, nervousness, headaches, cramps, nausea, stomach ulcers, at over 3000 mg it can cause liver toxicity and abnormal heart rhythms.
Here are a couple of reference links: http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/ART02762/vitamin-b3 and: http://www.livestrong.com/article/511859-is-too-much-niacin-bad-for-you/
I am astounded… this mother should be reported for child endangerment. I thought niacin would be good for me when I was considering the purif. I bought some 500mg tablets and took 1. I thought I was going to die… it was many hours before I “recovered” and weeks before some of the flushing and blotching disappeared. 5000 mg??? Poor child.
Disa, I agree, children should not be on the purif. It isn’t a medically sound regimen. A parent should talk to their doctor before allowing their child to do this. I’m also very sensitive to B vitamins. Just a little will knock me out for a day: dizziness, sweating, hot flashes, stomach upset, racing heartbeat. If anyone is thinking of taking a lot of B vitamins, please be careful. – T.J.
They are so unqualified that it didn’t even occur to them to adjust their “dosage” to the weight of the child. It looks like they gave her what they would normally give to an adult
Idiotic for sure!
Tampa Org was scratching for money. Mom, was love bombed and spent the money to get kudus. That’s usually how it works.
Perhaps she didn’t afterwards get admired enough at the org so she had to brag on Facebook – after all they had her money now, the love bombing would have ended. Just the thought of all the oohs and aahs from Bubble Dwellers that would have followed, is nauseating.
Having delieverd and c/s’d a handful of purifs, which isn’t a lot I confess, I still have to say that there isn’t a reason to freak out about the subject UNLESS it’s been done incorrectly, there’s been no doctor’s okay, the person is ill. Re: the girl. I agree that unless this girl had experienced heavy medical/psyche drugs for some reason I can’t imagine that she would need one. Still, child abuse? She would have had to have a doctors signed permission first, and secondly…in the picture she doesn’t show any signs of abuse from my observation. She looks fine. Sorry to go against the current thread here, but if the purif Swazey experienced was ‘horror’ then I have no idea what was done, but it wasn’t standard for sure! I loved mine but I was healthy and in good shape at the time. I think some people need to build up to it or be on a modified plan, which is the proper way to do it. Anyway, just my two sense 🙂
Really? I don’t believe people are getting signed doctor’s ok’s for this, unless it’s a person (and not necessarily a medical doctor) associated closely with Scientology. Dox, or it didn’t happen.
You probably believe that Lisa McPherson had a doctor’s ok for her ‘treatment’ too. And that Narconon has qualified staff overseeing everything, even though there have been several deaths at the facilities and people have stated, including their own staff, that there is no professional oversight.
So, there’s no reason to worry, Unless “it’s being done incorrectly” you say? What is the “correct way” to do an unnecessary, potentially hazardous, mega-vitamin dosage regimen with no physician’s supervision that was formulated by a science fiction writer with no medical training?
Mr. T.J.,
First, each purif I did for myself and others absolutely had medical doctor okay because that is the policy. I am no longer part of the scientology group, however, when I was on staff each person on the purif did, in fact, have signed doctor’s (medical) notes in their purif. folders. In fact, my own personal doctor (no religious affilication) took the time to read the purif pack so that she could make better qualifications as to a person’s fitness for doing it because I was delivering on my own at that point and was not connected to the c of s.
No, I do think that Lisa McPherson was treated properly technically (auditing) or physically. The ‘church’ blew it badly which is why they settled out of court, although somebody should have had criminal charges brought up for letting her die. She needed to be in a doctors care.
I personally know of several people who kicked their drugs and had a great experience with Narconon…however, the Narconon’s are not supervised well and they don’t have a 24 hour medical staff which is why insurance companies won’t fund people upfront. I am not in favor of the way they are run, which is mainly by exaddicts. I do not support them.
The fact that you want to be sarcastic and demeaning and make assumptions about me is totally unnceccesary. Do you have any personal experience with auditing someone or getting audited, or doing purifs or are you simply jumping on a hate band wagon because you believe that everything that LRon Hubbard did, said, or wrote was all wrong. Have you been trained in anything of Scientology?
I know where I stand with Scientology because I’ve trained in it and I have helped people using it time and time again. I don’t like the management and I have contempt for the things that I have read that have been done to people which are abusive. I don’t like the way the organization is run, and I never have. Still, anybody can research stuff about health, vitamins, etc. One doesn’t have to be a doctor to freakin’ read, study, and research anything, so the fact that LRon Hubbard wrote some science fiction (mostly he wrote adventure stories) really is irrelevant. The fact that he didn’t have a medical degree is a relevant fact if you don’t believe that anyone without a degree or professional status can come up with anything valid, which is fine if you think that.
Finally, lower your shields laddie. I’ve been on this blog (another name) since its inception, and Marty’s blog for years. and The purpose isn’t to just generally hate and make wrong all things and people regarding Scientology. At least that has never been my purpose. I will, howeaver,make corrections when I see that people are commenting about something that reveals they have limited or incorrect information. There is a correct way to do a purif and I even knew a doctor who was doing them to general public. He was not a Scientologist. He read the book. People complain when they are done incorrectly. They have been around for over 30 years and have been done by thousands of people and are still being done to this day, everyday. Therefore, to say generally that purifs are harmful is simply not accurate. That is all.
Hi “Julia”. I still do not believe there is a “correct way” to do the purif. I believe it is harmful, based on many people’s experiences, common sense, the mega-doses of vitamins and the fact that L Ron Hubbard was unqualified to prescribe a medical regimen in addition to the other reasons I cited.
To address the rest of your post:
I am not a “Mr.” – I am a mother. So don’t call me “laddie” either. You say you’ve been on this blog since it’s inception – if so, you should have seen other posts by me in the past 2 years and know I am female. I am quite upfront about who I am and have stated my full name, where I live, and work, and have posted my email address here publicly. I addressed you as “Julia” (in quotes) because you said you have posted here under a different name. I have not. T.J. is the initials of my true name.
It does not matter to me, how long you’ve been on this blog, or on Marty’s blog, as you stated, why would I care where you post? It doesn’t give you any more credibility.
You accuse me of being sarcastic and demeaning and making assumptions about you when your whole post to me drips with sarcasm and you are the one who has made assumptions: about my views on Hubbard, on you (I have no idea who you are or what you know) and about my attitude towards Scientology. I do not “hate” nor do I ever “jump on a bandwagon”. Your 6-paragraph reply was overkill. You will have to find someone else to fight with because I don’t do the little tit-for-tat sniping and petty arguing on blogs that some seem to enjoy. I said my piece, now I’m done. There shall be no further reply to this from me.
I am still not convinced that the purif is safe, and am still adamantly opposed to putting a child on the purif. I believe it is dangerous. You state that you don’t need a medical degree to read and devise a treatment – but I think Scientology is coming alarmingly close to breaking the law by practicing medicine without a license.
Thank you and have a nice day.
– T.J.
Hi Julia,Thank you for your viewpoint.Each of us here and elsewhere have our own experience with cos.You have yours I have mine.I read what you feel and respect it, but at the same time,what I and many others went through whether it be Purif or the Sweat Program as that was not good at all for me,as I strongly believe the tech can be white or black.We are all forged in the flame of Ron’s and dm’s vision and hurt by it and now we are trying to help and communicate our stories.I like to do so with laughter light and love.Always, Ann B.
Hi Ann B. Thank you for your sensible post, you are always fair and so sweet and kind in your posts – I wish some of your goodness would rub off on me. 🙂 You come along and remind me to be a better person and for that I thank you.
In case you didn’t see it, I was a day late wishing you a happy birthday yesterday, my post is further down the thread along with your other admirers. *big hugs* – i hope you had a yummy cake!
Hi T.J., Thank you for all you said and Hugs.You have me fishing for a Puffs.XXOO???
Oh, the purify. OMG. Can I describe the horror. It was just AWFUL. it’s also very tough, physically. I can’t imagine a kid on it. That’s just wrong.
CHILD ABUSE
I can not alert your authorities , I live in the Netherlands
But if anyone of you does, you are a Hero in my book.
But I know after you do you need a network to fall back on, turn to Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun
Was signed: Niels Martens
I agree, but none of the local police EVER seem to do jack shit about it. It is not like Mike or Marty or anyone besides law enforcement/CPS can drag them out of there. I’d love to pull up in a huge van full of clean clothes and have a motel empty and clean and scream, everyone get in now! You can call your families! You can sleep and eat!! Please hurry, I want to save you!! They would likely mostly just look at me. Maybe one or 2 would get in?? I don’t know 🙁
It is so caring of you, and others, to worry about the child. I hope someone draws the parents attention to this site and she can read the comments here and think about the dangers of putting a child on the purif. Maybe your words will also help prevent others from doing it.
My parents made me do the Purif when I was 12 years old. I had never even had a beer, let alone drugs, but the Purif seemed like a great idea to them. It was terrible. The smell of B vitamins still make me gag to this day.
The Purification Rundown does not remove toxins from the body. Anyone who has had wins on the pgm was experiencing placebo effects. It does cause your body to react, but it’s not beneficial to it. Drinking pure oil does not replace “bad fat”, it simply adds to your existing fat, and is a really stupid thing to do. Taking large doses of vitamins can be harmful, and for sure is not helpful. I have had some wins in Scntlgy, I am (was) a class 5 interned auditor.and I give credit where it’s due, but the purif is 100% bullshit. And can be very dangerous. I’ve done 4 of them, as well as the sweat out pgm with the rubber suit. All nonsense, dangerous and a waste of money.
Oh god, I did the sweat programme too.
What a great PR image THAT conveyed, running down the sidewalks of Dallas in a big silver rubber suit. They should have gone ahead and provided the rubber room to match, lol.
Hi Victoria, Good to meet you.Your post is so true and I was laughing recalling the Saran wrapped mummy SOer that I was -running barefoot thru Griffith Park in the dark before the sun was up.Orders were orders so off I rumbled with my circulation getting worse by the moment!The rubber room with a pole in the center.What an image!XO
You make a lot of sense. The Purification Rundown is an ineffective placebo that does make L. Ron Hubbard look like a damned fool. There is much SCIENTIFIC evidence around to support VARIOUS theories that the Purification Rundown does not really deliver what it promises. It can’t. Parishioner success stories in Source Magazine are not a replacement for laboratory statistics which the Church of Scientology does not have. L. Ron Hubbard’s lab was Flag PC and Pre-OT success stories. And if you have ever seen some of the cases Flag has “cracked” you understand why these success stories are not so valid. 🙂
To Overun…just curious why you did 4 purifs if you don’t like them? Overrun indeed. I know it is used as some sort of cure-all where people get put on the purif after having already done completed one. The only reason to do that would be in the case of someone being on heavy drugs. I think they act as though one is supposed to go clear on a purif! I disagree with the main point being stated that they are generally dangerous and that they don’t get toxins out. However, the fact that the purif is (like everything else) a general c/s for all people and must be done before any auditing is crappola. Furthermore, like any procedure, if its not done correctly then of course someone could get sick and who determines who does it correctly? I did the course and the c/s course and it really leaves out a lot of information. There’s no proof that a purif will save someone from mass radiation…it’s conjecture.
That is FALSE julia. There are no “toxins” removed by the purif nor radiation removed. It is a LIE! EM radiation CANNOT be stored in the body. It is impossible. QUIT spreading criminal lies.
Hi Mike, I liked your comment about Purif etc.When I had a hellish time with that Sweat Program the only toxins that came out of me were hunger pains.And I do know something about radiation now and no Ron it is not stored in my body.If so all that one would have to do with me is put me on a cliff and the glow from my body would guide ships for an infinite amount of years!How I ever believed all the PL’s on cancer,radiation etc looking now astounds me.I was so blessed to get out when I did.XO
$cientology has become the Darwin Award of religions. But then, it always was.
SCN isn’t yet self-deceased(a requirement for the Darwin award, specifically removing oneself from the gene pool before reproducing. SCN has already reproduced: the fz and “indies” are still seemingly robust; perhaps they’ll outlive the Degraded Midget’s cult
Hi gtsix, Not too long ago I thought about a drone that took off from my house and zipped straight to yours.This drone was carrying an infinite amount of ❤️❤️ & ??? and ???? for my soul mates 8/1/16 Birthday.Waves of love to you.XO AnnB. I know off-topic because that Purif child is just horrific.XO
Annie B! Happy happy birthday!
happy day!
Hi blue moon, Thank you from my heart.❤️
Hi Chee, Thank you for your sweet birthday wishes.I had a peaceful relaxing day.❤️❤️
Happy Birthday Ann! Wishing you health, happiness and serenity.
Hi Good People, What kind and good words.Love you.❤️❤️
Happy birthday Ann B! you are a shining light that gets brighter each day, I hope you’re having a great day!
Happy Birthday, Ann B! May the Best day of your past…be the worst day of future!
Hi OSD, I can always count on you both to melt my heart.Thank you my friend Always.❤️❤️❤️
Hi sashiebgood, You are the sweetest.Thank you made my birthday! ❤️❤️
Happy Birthday Ann B. 🙂 I hope your day was the happiest and funnest, and that your whole birthday week is filled with happy moments. Sending you much love every day from the west coast, hope it finds its way to you and you feel it every day. Love you and am always so happy to see you posting here, you are a sunbeam of light for us all, *biggest huggles* ever! – T.J.
Hi TJ, I just found your sweet birthday post. Thank you my angel.You are golden.XO Always Ann B
Happy Birthday Ann – keep on keeping on…
lots of love
Hi I Yawnalot, Thank you because your words are so touching.I had a peaceful relaxing day.❤️❤️
I never liked the purif . i’d been in scn since i was 22 and had only smoked pot a bit.i really didn’t need it. the ep-it killed the persistant fn i had from previous auditing. it was and is a waste of time and money.
Just want to do a shout out to Ann B…. HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Hope your day has been and continues to be fabulous. May this year continue to be happy, healthy and full of love as you are. You are a ray of sunshine and kindness every day.
Now have some more caek!
xx,
gtsix
Hi gtsix, Misty eyed you got me! Thank you Angel.Chocolate cake!❤️❤️❤️
Nothing very new here, MLike: since my wife and me were the very first to import the purif in France, – I translated the first version in my mission – we got our sons – soon on the purif as well : we got also the first saunas I fabricated in France, some weeks BEFORE AOSHEU got one! – so, we could also have been stupid enough to put our sons on the purif at 10. But they were 13 and 14 then.
So, the insane LRH and his stupide MD could not even put limits to the fraud.
I met later a South-american guy working on the purif since SIX months in AOSH EU in Copenhagen , at 5000 mg niancin a day.
Hubbard put forward his ideas about niacin in a book called All About Radiation. He claimed to have discovered that large doses of vitamins could both alleviate and prevent radiation sickness. He marketed this anti-radiation mixture in the form of a tablet, calling it “Dianazene”. Twenty-one thousand such tablets were seized and destroyed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 1958.
They are going to kill a lot of people. Just the sauna alone can be bad for certain people. To add vitamins and minerals at toxic levels is just CRAZY!
The other thing about Dianazene I’d heard was that it didn’t even contain the specified levels of ingredients. Thus, they didn’t DO anything. much less cure radiation sickness nor protect against future exposure. Ron should have known he’d stepped over the line when he claimed to cure illness, but mere human rules didn’t apply to HIM! For an otherwise fairly intelligent guy, he didn’t seem to care that continually and flagrantly breaking countries’ laws might (would) cause harm to SCN. Seems all he was interested in was getting HIS name remembered, for good or ill, it didn’t matter.
— Jere
“Mass ritual cardioectomy is a very effective way to appease the gods, but those thrice dammed Spaniards won’t let us do it.”
-Some Aztec Priest
Tomás de Torquemada demands that you expatriate your sins in the approved fashion. I.E. by self flagellation and by having sex with young boys. Just don’t let Mel Brooks do a song and dance number about him.
NOBODY expects The Spanish Inquisition…
How many hours do you spend in the saunas….what exercise are you doing….and for F***ks sake…..how much does a scientologist pay for this in 2016?????
Hi OverTheBridgeTPA…Last summer it was $2,500 and I was in 5 hrs per day for 26 days. It’s 20 to 30 mins on the treadmill before you go in. I gained 6 pounds in that time. If you have a problem or question you have to write it to the case supervisor, who never sees you, and wait until the next day to see what he wrote back. I had high blood pressure when I finished and it was fine before I started. I feel foolish now but at the time I thought I was doing something good for myself.
Wana bet the mother claims the FSM commission!
What’s next? The running program for the cat?
Scientology is way past the bottom of the barrel in it’s relentless search for something to communicate about. What a bunch of losers with a BIG L
This is clearly the Scientology Stat Side effects of a “Registrar” having to have their stats!
Sickening.
The Purification is harmful – SCIENCE proven by Toxicologists!
Hello All…..just an FYI….if you use google….you will see that she works for an insurance underwriting company. So don’t worry….she’s got good coverage if the poor child gets sick from this crap.
Disgusting…putting a kid thru that.
And then to boast about it…..Awesome. ???
This reminds me of the Alabama grandma who ran her granddaughter to death as a form of punishment. She received life in prison.
This is child abuse….hiding behind Freedom of Religion.
Last time I checked…..Freedom of Religion doesn’t mean you have the right to harm a child.
OverTheBridgeTPA, check again. It DOES mean than (according to SCotUS) in certain cases…
It’s summertime. What are we going to do with the kids while mom’s at the org? Get them on course and on central files project.
Also there are some mothers who would think little Susie would benefit from an exercise program. It’s supervised…what could go wrong?
The first time I did the Purif I felt good about it. I felt fresh and I do feel I got the “EP” of the Purif. Years later I did it again and I had a hard time with the niacin and the B vitamins at the final level dosages, but I never heard of anybody being harmed physically by the rundown. I know that people might be reluctant to report adverse physical reactions and attribute it to the purif, but still, I saw a lot of people do the purif over my years in Scn and my wife was the Purif I/C at one time and I only observed people who got benefit from it and some who seemed to have not needed it and who got minimal results. I never heard of anyone having any medical problems on the purif or as a result of the purif.
Based on my own experience I do question the higher vitamin dosages. I wondered if vitamins had become more synthetic or more potent since the rundown was developed? My second time my body was telling me I was taking too much B vitamins. I experienced no negative health effects that I know of. I have no medical problems.
Interesting account of your experience, cm9. I also really liked the Purif. I did it in the first year or two after it came out. Sure, it was work, you had to “endure” things (what else is new about life in general?) but the end results I got were great. I won’t describe them because I’m not into having them be criticized, but while I was on org staff for many years (THAT part wasn’t fun) I ran the Purif for a couple years. No one got ill, no one went to the hospital or thought they needed to, no one ran away refusing to do it, they showed up, did the program, went home every day and some pretty remarkable things happened to them.
The one problem that came up usually was a scheduling problem with the Purif clashing with a work schedule and stressing someone out because they can’t make it fit together. As the I/C you just have to work with the person and make sure he is comfortable doing the program. We always figured it out. Everyone is different with what is happening in their life.
If you got overheated there were cool showers to cool down. If you got hungry you ate. If you got tired you laid down and rested. If you got thirsty there was plenty of water and juices. We had a fridge filed with stuff. If you were in the middle of something that was upsetting or bothersome that ‘s what your twin was there for (and the person in charge) to keep you going, keep you as comfortable as possible so you could get through it. Everyone in my care got through it with success at the end of it. And not a phony success. When you are there watching it come in on the person and then see them experience the relief of being done with it, you can see that it’s genuine..
I feel for those who were tortured, mistreated and got ripped off. I can think of about 50 reasons why a Purif could be made to go wrong and none of them rest with the pc–it’s all on the person in charge and the case supervisor.
But for a long time the concept of making the pc wrong for a bad result has been one of the biggest out-tech “solutions” to faulty tech staff training that has ever existed.
With RTC refusing to take action on Out Tech Reports and Knowledge Reports about bad delivery for decades now, (to support the pc or student, not the ethics officer or the registrar) this criminality is ensured from the very topmost level of the cherch. That’s no new news, but just another way to look at what happened in the cherch and how it rips off its members purely for its own benefit and for their members’ misfortune.
gato rojo, thanks for relating your personal experiences with the purif. I think an adult can decide for themselves if they want to do such a program, but don’t think anyone should make a child do it.
I did the Purif (via AOLA) in 1980 … having gotten clearance from Dr. Gene Denke. I hated it but since I had to do it I made the best of it. Several months after I completed it, I ran into a couple who I’d been friendly with for years, but something was different about the wife. After chatting a bit, I learned she’d gone blind during the purif. She had a medical condition that was aggravated by the high dose of niacin which caused the loss of her vision. I asked if her vision would come back in time and they said no. At the time, they were still committed Scientologists. I’ve wondered about them many times. It was such a friggin’ glaring failure on the part of Dr. Denke and on LRH’s “technical info” about the Purif.
That was Carrie Alkins and her husband Robyn. It’s a shame that she was ruined by the Purif and yet they both still were faithful KA drinkers after that. Carrie is dead now. Sorry she didn’t see the light about the church before she died. (no pun intended.)
Good morning Dave,
We have extracted the liver from the Sea Org volunteer you sent us.
It is guaranteed BT (Body Thetan) free.
Upon receipt of transfer of $20,000,000 from your Swiss account we will deliver.
If you need another one in the future or any other body part for that matter, just send us another volunteer.
Sincerely,
Body Parts R US
P.S. We are crediting your account for the remaining body parts of your “volunteer”.
10 year old purif completion >?
Money in the coffer is still money no matter how old the hand that put it there.
Hell, I had done a bunch of 12 step programs by age 8 for booze, heroin and marijuana
and I wasn’t half as wasted as my parents, it was the 60’s.
Pretty standard educational parameters for the 60s & early 70s. Somewhere in there Vietnam materialized, just to change the mood. Nothing like a good jungle experience to clear the head!
If true, the dosages going up to 5k niacin, even when “balanced” with the other vitamins is dangerous, reckless and unnecessary especially for a child where the size of the body and age of the organs respond quite different (less is more, more is as I said, dangerous, reckless, and unnecessary). I could see it if the kid lived in Chernobyl for the first 8 years of her life, because what would you have to lose? But 5k niacin to run out what? Dentist Novocaine, polluted air, water? You can do all that with a simple, safe herbal detox – tailed to a child’s body, not an adult. Anyone in the natural medicine area would likely call CPS if they heard of such.
The only explanation for this is, the robots point to the grade chart and it says Purif so they do Purif. They make their money all the same. And if that kid somehow stays in Scientology, that will be one of many Purifs they will end up doing. I know people who have done that Purif 5 times. The C/S and person doing the Purif could benefit from consulting real doctors if someone is trying to handle something that 5 Purifs won’t handle (doing the same things over and … yeah).
Zowza. 5000mg/day (5grams/day)! And a child. Dear Xenu in Heaven.
Just “”Googled” too much niacin””:
Reactions range from flushing, itching, nervousness and headaches to intestinal cramps, nausea, and diarrhea. High doses of niacin can cause liver toxicity; doses in excess of 3 grams a day should be used only under careful medical supervision (for example, in the treatment of high cholesterol).
This is child abuse, plain & simple. No ifs, ands or buts about it. What a fucked up cult…
Yes indeed. The cult is true to form. Kids are easier prey now that the cult numbers have decreased so dramatically.
For some reason I can’t help but compare it to a silly fad way back in the 50/60s. Kid’s just had to have a rabbit’s foot for luck, they even had ’em as key rings and such. What a gruesome & fucked up thing that was – sure wasn’t lucky for the rabbit! In the same sort of way, sure wouldn’t be lucky to born into a Scientology family.
In defense of poor Sonya I’d like to say she doesn’t look terribly bright.
Well Roger, she IS a member in good standing of THE #1 CULT in the land and that brings along with it certain unmistakable characteristics.
Well … I guess we can be thankful that her mother didn’t put her on it when she was three!
Total insanity.
The problem is approached in this paragraph from first chapter of “The Fundamentals of Thought”. What I mean by “approached” is that, Hubbard was short on the point of requiring knowledge before Scientology and auditing would work.
This means that scientology is too high of a gradient for the average person. The average person knows practically nothing about life, at most far from enough.
He said that students need to be educated in life, before they will do well in scientology. And he goes on by implication that he developed courses of life knowledge for students to take at the same time as auditing.
As a matter of fact even the courses that Hubbard developed are still too high of a gradient for the average person.
This is the reason for the general state of insanity and irrationality in scn. When people are ignorant about life they are gullible, and do not know how to use their brains and think for themselves. For one thing they do not have other data to compare scn too. But they do not have general life knowledge. They do not have any amount of critical thinking skills. The more life knowledge a person has before getting into scn the better the person will do. The more books of great knowledge (religion, spirituality, philosophy, psychology, sociology, cosmology, health and wellness, healing, etc, ) (plus experience) they have read before getting into scn , the better they will do.
I quote from Fundamentals of thought: The middle paragraph is the applicable one.
How is Scientology Used? Scientology is employed by an Auditor (one who listens and commands) as a set of drills (exercises, processes) upon the individual, and small or large groups. It is also employed as an educational (teaching) subject. It has been found that persons can be processed (drilled) in Scientology
with Scientology exercises and can be made well of many, many illnesses and can become brighter, more alert and more competent.
BUT if they are only processed they have a tendency to be overwhelmed or startled and although they may be brighter and more competent they are still held down by an ignorance of
life. Therefore it is far better to teach AND process (audit, drill) a person than only to process him. In
other words the best use of Scientology is through processing and education in Scientology.
In this way there is no imbalance. It is interesting that people only need to study Scientology to have some small rise in their own intelligence, behaviour and competence. The study itself is therapeutic (good medicine) by actual
testing. It is also used by business and government leaders to establish or improve organization. It is used
as well by the individual at home or at his work to make a better life.
End of quote:
Sonja Houghton is a perfect example of what is generally called an air head or one who has shit for brains.
She and people like her, know nothing useful and do not know how to use their brains and are very naive and gullible.
Dio
Dio, don’t take this the wrong way (or the right way, if you are so inclined) — It’s hard to tell where Hubbard ends and Dio begins.
In the words of Edward R. Murrow, “Anyone who isn’t confused really doesn’t understand the situation.”
hgc10,
Not being able to distinguish or discern or judge differences, is one form of insanity or mental incompetence.
Dio
Reply”…scientology is too high a gradient for the average person. The average person knows practically nothing about life, at most far from enough.”
Dio, The flesh is weak and your comment so enticing. First, what SPECIFICALLY do the poor, merely average among us, not know about life which we need to know in order that scientology not be ‘out-gradient’? I say, “we” because as a person who got nothing out of scientology beyond a great lesson in humility, I would, by your reckoning, be one of those ‘average’ people who don’t know nearly as much about life as I ought.
I deny scientology introduced me to anything ultimately beneficial . Was it too out gradient for me? Before I joined up I had been a teacher of kundalini yoga while living in an ashram, practiced T.M. and travelled abroad with the Maharishi’s entourage, avidly read all books by J. Krishnamurti, and was pretty well versed in Zen Buddhism. Where was my knowledge deficit that prevented me from understanding scientology properly? God knows I cleared enough words!
I read your comment with a different understanding than was your intention. I suggest you are strongly attached to the idea of scientology being something extraordinary and are seeking to resolve the incongruity between that and it’s apparent lack of value. The popular scapegoat is scientology doesn’t work if you’re ‘out ethics’ or PTS to entheta. Here, you are offering a refreshingly new hypothesis: scientology is out-gradient for the average person because the average person knows too little about life!
I’m inclined to argue the highest knowledge one can have about life is to know the difference between right and wrong. That means the average people about whom you so condescendingly speak, get to mingle with the elites when it comes to knowing the most important and beneficial knowledge there is. I know you prefer to distinguish yourself with a knowledge packing more snob-appeal than that. I sympathize with that self-aggrandizing impulse but again, I regret to report, that impulse is also one you share with the average folk.
Well Roger,
1. For one, I am only expanding upon the idea that Hubbard expressed in the quote from FOT I posted.
2. That idea has been very true for me.
Except for a bk 1 demo (of which I had a few hour release, it was amazing) and few days and three intro courses, (of which I had very good wins) I did not do scn in the church.
I was declared PTS in a few days, basically because I questioned why scn was so good, as far as I had experienced, and from my POV, everyone who had been in for decades were evidently still all coo coo. It was like an asylum. It was scary to me.
They showed me a video of DM speaking and asked me what I thought of him? I replied, I think there is something wrong with him. Shortly after I was declared.
Five months later I serendipituously, met someone who told me about the fz. Long story short, I connected with Bob Ross and did some phone auditing (and had huge wins) and found used sources of all the scn books and over the following yrs read them all, ….most a few times.
That all began in 97.
I connected with fz magazines, and read everything I could. That was my bridge. Then when the internet came on, I connected with lots more and did a wide variety of different spins on tech.
I found it more than extremely helpful. It saved my life many times.
Prior to my sojourn through scn, I had been on what I would say, was my own version of development of scn. I was developing my own scn.
I had read hundreds of books, prior, including the bible, the Oahspe and the course in miracles and the work of Walter Russel and many more great books. I was searching for the answers, the solutions to the problems of the mind and life. I had not found them, until I got into scn.
But I did scn on my own, with a critical mind. I questioned everything and over time, I was able to separate the false and limiting data from the useful data. I found lots of false and limiting data. Lots of false definitions. I corrected them all.
I would say I applied scn tech to itself. Scn defined as: Knowing how to find the truth of something? Knowing how to know.
As I got scn figured out, everything else I read prior, began to come into perspective and became useful. Scn had the missing data I needed.
So when I read that quote in FOT, I have full certainty on the meaning of it.
Your accusation that I am snobbish about it, is not true for me. I am just telling it the way it is. That is my truth.
But if you think that or see that, that is ok with me.
Based on my experience, pretty much only the principal of scn is true. The formula is true.
The rest is a mess.
If you can’t build your own bridge and build a much better bridge, after doing scn, you flunked scn.
Dio
I got a great amount of gain from Scientology that I still use in life (up to 45 years later).
I’d like to kindly suggest the following:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
Studius, when a person’s mind is “on scamology” it becomes impossible to apply the scientific method. Even rational conversation becomes all but impossible.
Well, children are just old thetans in new meat bodies, doncha know
I took a bite out of my meat body once. It hurt….
Stick to pizza.
Good advice…
This is child abuse plain and simple.
Local CPS should take action because child abuse is not allowed/condoned in the First Amendment any way I read it.
Freedom of religion does not include forcing “quackery” on children
According to the SCotUS precedent setting rulings you are incorrect GTBO. Religion DOES allow child abuse in this manner.
You can definitely abuse children and adults and restrain their freedom in the name of religion specially in the US. I don’t think the same could happen in other Western countries. They don’t even grant tax free status to the Cult of Greed.
In the US it isn’t legally possible to restrain or abuse an adult without the person’s agreement (by a church anyway). That’s a false datum. ANYONE can just walk away from a church in the US. While they may not WANT to, it is the case.
Children yes. But adults in all Western countries can & do, do that to children.
GTBO – agreed.
That was my first thought too, GTBO. Giving a kid that young that much Niacin is child endangerment. They didn’t even cut the dosages to allow for a smaller body. And the dangers of high doses of Niacin have been documented on Mike’s site as well as other places. The mom could be investigated for child abuse.
I am ashamed to admit that when I was on staff, we had some children on the purif as well. Was it because I thought they really needed it? No. It was because we ran out any public on lines that hadn’t done it and since one was always required to get the stats up, the reg and the delivery areas had to broaden the prospect list to include children. It was a “solution” to the problem of not enough new public coming in the front door.
Getting children onto this rundown, or redo by someone who has already done it, is simply the indicator they do not have enough new people coming in to keep the all important stats going up.
So, you ran out of adult subjects. And then was on to the kids. I was wondering what happens when the reservoir of little thetans runs dry, and then it struck me. Scientology for pets! You have all this underutilized sauna space and stockpiled niacin and the ever charging Thursday 2pm mad bull of stats reporting, and what — Scientology families have dogs and cats and budgies and iguanas and Vietnamese potbelly pigs and maybe even a few horses sitting around doing nothing when they could be running out past-life drug binges.
Hey, Mike, tell the truth — You have a pet wallaby hopping around, do you not? I assumed all Aussies do. Send the little bugger in and help keep stats up.
Mona: “not enough new public coming in the front door” So True!
“Getting children onto the rundown, or redo by someone who has already done it, is simply the indicator they do not have enough new people coming in to keep the all important stats going up.” This is so true.
I’m curious about the theory behind this. A 10 year old girl second gen Scn has been exposed to… what exactly in the way of drugs and toxins?
Especially since she has been raised with $cn parents to watch over her diet and life.
Exactly. What could she have picked up by ten to need a full scale run down? Don’t they have like a kids under twelve discounted shorted version? Like a Happy Happy Meal with youngster instead?
http://www.alternet.org/belief/scientology-boss-furious-after-daily-mail-reports-his-tom-cruise-bromance-and-secret-videos?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im Something good to know.
“You never close your eyes…”
Say it with me now – “Religiously-Motivated Child Abuse”
With apologies to Americans here, it’s yet more sickness hiding behind the laudable but all-too-exploitable Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment.
F**k this cult so very, very hard.
I think it may well be money motivated child abuse David. And of course it is all done in the name of religion. Oh yes, and saving the planet and your and everyone’s eternity.
The cult is so wonderful for all the responsibility it takes in raising man out of the mud!
David J Mudkips,
I really like your phrase: “Religiously-Motivated Child Abuse”
Thank you for that.
I needed to hear that.
Never heard that phrase before.
That can sure be expanded upon.
It can be said also: “Religiously Instructed, Ordered, Incited Child Abuse”
Also applies to
◄ Proverbs 13:24 ►
New International Version
Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.
When the fact is that a child will never do anything wrong, or be “bad” if the parent did not do something wrong (by commission or omission) to the child first.
Incite: 1. urge or persuade (someone) to act in a violent or unlawful way.
2. To provoke and urge on:
Motivate: 1. provide (someone) with a motive for doing something.
2. stimulate (someone’s) interest in or enthusiasm for doing something.
3. to provide with a motive, or a cause or reason to act; incite; impel.
Every datum has to be evaluated on it’s own merits.
Any idea is only as good as it works.
Not knowing the difference between a fact and a belief is the basis for all insanity and incompetence. LRH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You know (to be honest and impartial to the truth) if you study scn carefully and study and evaluate everything Hubbard said, and then stand back from scn, and think and evaluate, you will see that Hubbard was inserting datums through out that vindicates him from blame.
The above is a perfect example.
There are several more.
The article: How to study a science, is another very good one.
He was insane, corrupt, intelligent and clever.
Dio
Kate Holmes was a good mother to take Suri and run like hell, along with with great legal protection.
FWIW: Since dosage to weight defines the effect a drug has on a human body I’m guessing that the impact on a 10 year old child would be two or three times what it would be for an adult. Hello liver damage.
I am ashamed to admit that I did the same thing before I saw the light. They are really pushing people to have their kids do the Purif now. There were many on it when I was there. Mine was 13 yrs old. $5,000.00, for both of us,that was found for me (by regs) by badgering friends and relatives and telling “acceptable truths” to credit card companies that I am still trying to pay for. It’s embarrassing. I believe that I came close to my demise while in the sauna. On a Thursday at 1:45 the Purif staff stood outside the locker room yelling for me to hurry up and they shoved food down my throat on the way to the examiner’s to attest. They coached me heavily to pass. Then it was “Sign here” and then nobody knows you anymore. They got what they wanted. Love bomb ’em and leave ’em! What a circus!!
That is a hideous story….but they got you in as a “stat” before 2 p.m. and that’s all that mattered to them. DONE SIR!
What kind of crap has mom been exposing her to that she needs a purif at 10? Chain smoking around the baby? Junk food diet? Parked in front of a radiation emitting computer screen? $cn poisoning???
Sugar?
I always wondered about Hubbard’s barley water. Barley is what beer and whisky are based on (except corn liquor of course but it still requires barley in the recipe for the enzymes to convert corn starch to sugar so it’s ferment-able (I’ve had varied, twisted and essential education). Barley is full of starch but it also has the enzymes that covert it into sugar. It’s one of the more readily accessible forms of starch/sugar. It’s also called malt after germination and malt is the sweet stuff you put in your milkshakes. Hubbard was so against sugar, yet recommended barley water for children – go figure?
Interesting thing with barley is that it can grow in some pretty terrible soil, weather and seasonal conditions. Scotland has the best whisky because they grow heaps of barley. It’s one of few crops that consistently produces in that climate and has done so for centuries. What else are they going to do with that much barley? Glenmorangie distillery alone produces over 6 million liters a year (that’s about 10 million bottles) and Davey boy is one of their better customers! Glenmorangie also owns vast oak forests in the US where it makes barrels and leases them to Jack Daniels, which in turn puts bourbon in them for 3 years and then sends them to Scotland for their whisky, which they age sometimes for decades. Bourbon barrels are used only once for bourbon anyway but after that they mature Scotch really well – nice business!
“I yawn a lot”,
Thanks for the good story and education.
I have a lot of varied education too. Including natural health and natural remedies, and more. And grew up on a farm.
I think that barley water for babies idea of Hubbard’s, is given far too much credit.
I have tried to make it. I would not waste time and effort to make it again.
I make porridge out of all kinds of grains and seeds.
Early on, very high quality baby food can be made from seeds like millet, buckwheat and hominy with enough water to make the final product, close to liquid and cook it for about an hour or hour and a half on low. And enough salt to taste, with a good wack of butter, to begin with. Then puree.
I have observed babies being raised by parents from the old school. Babies are not as sensitive or delicate as they are made out to be, by ignoramuses.
If they were, humans would not have survived.
Vegetables like potatoes, carrots, peas, beans, lentils, and corn also make good baby food, when mashed to a smooth consistency.
Almost all soups that are served to the family make ideal baby food.
Babies should only not be served meat until they are about two three yrs old.
This modern idea of buying “baby food” is lunacy.
It is someone’s business plan.
Dio
I agree. Common sense must reign supreme with the health and nutrition issues of babies. What is a real stunner is the amount of refined sugar in western culture’s diet, especially breakfast cereal but recently it was discovered a babies stewed fruit concoction which stated ‘no added sugar’ was tested and found to be around 40% sugar. Deadly stuff.
Sounds like you had a natural handle on what you are doing, way to go! I’ve known of a number of people that made Hubbard’s barley water, but you are in common with them in that they never made it twice.
Food like everything else “sold” is governed by someone’s business plan. Baby food is BIG business!
Oh for goodness sake. Dio, where did you get your credentials to be able to advise people on what to feed babies? Let’s hope that parents consult with their doctor or at least read a generally accepted book on child care when deciding what to feed their baby.
Every reputable source I’ve read says that babies can eat meats at 6 months of age. Here is a site with good guidelines: http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/baby-food-nutrition-9/baby-food-timeline
The American Academy of Pediatrics says it is ok to start at 4 to 6 months: http://www.babycenter.com/404_when-can-my-baby-eat-meat_1368509.bc
I’ve seen stories on the news recently about how babies fed a vegan diet or other ‘fad’ diets have suffered from severe malnutrition and even died.
Dio, you said (quote) …” the modern idea of buying ‘baby food’ is lunacy”. I totally disagree!
The baby foods on the market are formulated with sound research for good nutrition of infants and children. I would definitely feed a baby these foods rather than anything L.Ron Hubbard devised for feeding infants! Where did Hubbard get his medical degree to be able to advise on nutrition for children? Where did you get yours, Dio, to offer ‘expert advice’? You state you are qualified “because you grew up on a farm”. Seriously?!
Then you call other people ‘ignoramuses’ – you must be joking!
You are the same guy that quoted LRH on saying women should not be educated as men are, and should only run the home. That was annoying. You are now getting on my last nerve with your baby nutrition advice/statements.
You also say (quote) “infants are not as sensitive or delicate as they are made out to be, or humans would not have survived.” In fact, the child death rate was indeed much higher even as recently as 60 years ago due to improper nutrition. Children commonly suffered from malnutrition and diseases of vitamin deficiencies such as ‘rickets’ and even blindness. The health care profession has done a lot of work to provide proper guidelines and nutrition for children to lower the infant and child death rate these days. And they have been successful in that, thank goodness.
In developing countries there are way too many instances of childhood diseases caused by improper nutrition, which are completely preventable by proper diet.
The World Health Organization states that “45% of child deaths are linked to malnutrition” Here is the link:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs178/en/
I mean really, it’s amazing to see the sheer arrogance of you spouting out your ill-informed theories on infant nutrition.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/167968-diseases-caused-by-malnutrition-in-children/
As parents of two (thankfully) healthy children, we spent much time researching proper nutrition for our children, and followed sensible guidelines, including giving healthy prepared baby foods, including vegetables, meats, cereals, fruit and milk.
What we did not do, was follow fad diets or the advice of random unqualified people posting their theories about child nutrition on the internet.
There was a baby here in Australia who died of malnutrition because the parents put the child on a vegan diet. The parents have been charged. Just back to the 10 year purif completion, I remember having to get clearance from a Dr to do the program back in the 1980’s, I wonder if this pre req has been dropped.
TJ and Fiona,
1. All your so called reliable sources are not reliable. They are mostly garbage.
2. Some people are born with useful intelligence, good judgement and common sense.
3. I do not condone vegetarianism for adults but:
there are millions of people who are vegetarian chosen as a lifestyle, and groups of people or cultures that have been vegetarian for generations.
So people do not die from being vegetarian.
Dio
Yawnalot, I saw some guy on a local cooking show once giving a recipe for a mixed drink using toasted barley water. I made it for a party, and it was pretty darn tasty. I don’t even remember what liquor or what else went into it.
It could be suggested ‘barley’ is the true gift of the Gods. Where we be without beer, malted milkshakes and single malt whisky and its lessor cousin, blended whisky, let alone all the other stuff barley malt converts to ferment-able sugar?
Not remembering what went into a drink is the first sign of success for the author of it.
Cognited and Out , early on in the history of the purif many parents wanted their child to do it as the mother had been a hippy and had taken dangerous drugs while pregnant and the staff members would tell them that the child needed the purif.
Monstrous. Poor child…
When the purif was first released I saw several children on it at the mission. This criminal child abuse has been happening since Day 1 in the cult.