A day late due to extenuating circumstances, but here is this week’s installment from Terra Cognita
Still Waiting for Scientology OTs to Change the World
All Scientology Operating Thetans—OTs—are handed the responsibility of clearing their environments after returning home from Flag and the Freewinds. They’re expected to transform their local communities—ideally, into some sort of Scientology-based utopia. If that’s too much, tidying up their neighborhoods and/or giving touch assists to Uncle Dick is helpful. At the least, walking Rex more regularly is good for their Fifth Dynamic.
Before the Golden Age of Tech, the Basics, and the “ideal” org program, the big plan was for OT 7 and 8s to return home and supercharge their communities. They would be so able after completing these levels that their mere presence would cause major advances everywhere they set foot. Witnessing these supermen and their feats, the public would flood the local orgs and missions. Stats would skyrocket. In no time, local environs would be operating on a whole new level of existence.
Pinky Swear
After completing OT 7 and 8, members have to promise to help Scientology BIGTIME before they’re allowed to leave Flag or the Freewinds. If they don’t join staff immediately, they must participate in all the local Scientology groups: the OT Committees, the “ideal” org committees, Volunteer Ministers, etc. FSMing the shit out of all their family, friends, and acquaintances goes without saying.
Some try harder than others. All have little to show for their work. Which must be a little surprising to Scientologists because according to L. Ron Hubbard, one OT is worth a bushel of Homo sapiens. Just one or two of these newly-minted OTs is said to have the ability to turn local orgs into Old St. Hill-sized behemoths. I must have been asleep when this occurred.
Cream of the Crop
These OTs are supposed to be the cream of the crop: the top beings on the planet, able to heal the sick, make postulates stick, and those old ashtrays rise up from chairs. You wouldn’t know it from their surroundings.
Did current leader, David Miscavige, order them all to “sit tight” until all the orgs across the planet had become “ideal” and he’d finally unleashed the full power of his new Hollywood broadcasting facility? Or are he and his OTs so deluded, and their cognitive dissonance so pronounced, that they simply can’t see what’s going on? Are they that drunk on Kool Aid? Do they really think they’re operating in a higher condition?
I wonder if OTs ever feel “overty” from their lack of “production”—like they think they’re committing crimes by not expanding their orgs and communities?
How long can these OTs continue “operating” under the assumption they’re making a difference? What must be going through their minds?
Do they feel invalidated for not accomplishing what they were supposed to? I would. Not only haven’t they demonstrated the gains they attested to on their lower levels, since returning from Flag and the Freewinds after completing OT 7 and 8, they can’t manage to get anyone inside the front doors of their orgs and missions. Heck, they can’t even exteriorize or keep their bodies from getting sick and dying.
The EP of OT 7 is, “Cause over life.” Whose life are they talking about? Rex the Wonder Dog? The level of blindness is remarkable.
Local Scene
There are a dozen or so OT 8s associated with “my” local org—which is a pretty high number considering the population. Then again, it took these operating thetans thirty or forty years to get there. Upon completing OT 7 and 8, a few of them joined staff part time, assuming the top three or four spots in the org. After having manned these posts for the last four or five years, the org hasn’t expanded one iota. It’s as empty now as it was decades ago. WTF?
Despite all this OT firepower, “my” local org’s created only three or four “Clears” in the last thirty years—about a “Clear” a decade. The number of Class 5 auditors produced over this same period: less. Maybe one or two.
The course room is empty save for old timers redoing courses for the third time—ones they originally completed before the turn of the century. The C/S left a year ago. I can’t remember the last time the org employed someone full time. The place has been insolvent for the last forty years—possibly since its inception as a mission. Despite all these OT 8s walking the streets!
You’d almost think LRH’s tech doesn’t work. And that Flag isn’t the Mecca for technical perfection and people on the Freewinds are high on blue asbestos.
The Local Rag
I’ve been reading my local paper for years—the horrors!—and in all those decades, I’ve yet to read a single article about Scientology doing anything to help the community. In over forty years, the church has done nothing to warrant even a few inches of ink. It’s done nothing to alleviate homelessness, crime, or unemployment. Nada. Most of the community doesn’t even know the org exists. Despite all these newly minted OT 8s!
Every year the newspaper publishes a list of all the non-profits and their respective contributions to the community. Scientology has never been mentioned. Not one word. Despite LRH’s team of Homo Novi who he promised would create zones of influence and “cleared” communities.
Terra Math: 365 issues/year (of my local newspaper) X 45 years (of my org’s existence) = 16,425 daily publications without one positive word about Scientology. Huh?
Where’s Qual?
Division Five, the Qualifications Division—Qual—is responsible for seeing that everything in Scientology runs smoothly. If something’s a bit off, it means LRH tech and policy aren’t being applied correctly.
Qual is responsible for catching instances of students and preclears not achieving the proper end phenomena on courses and in auditing. Qual is also responsible for correcting parts of an org not “delivering” and for staff not producing. Pretty much anything that isn’t going right falls under the purview of Qual.
Per their own policy then, they should be all over these failed products. They should have recalled all these non-producing OT 7 and 8s eons ago.
Not only would ordering all OTs back to Flag be impossible, it would be admitting the tech doesn’t work. Then again, they call people back to do “updated” versions of courses and auditing levels all the time and nobody seems to be able to make the connection.
So What Are All These OTs Doing?
Most of these OTs are madly trying to earn money to pay off debts incurred while on OT 7 and 8, earn more for OT 9 and 10, and contribute to their new “ideal” orgs. Many are redoing courses. (LRH wrote, “Time over material equals certainty.”) They’re going to events, OT Committee meetings, and “ideal” org fundraisers. They’re cleaning toilets and stocking mission bathrooms with TP. And of course, they’re sorting paper and organizing files on the weekends—as if getting Central Files up-to-date is what will cause their orgs to flourish and prosper.
Are they reaching out to the community, though? Administering nerve assists at their local hospitals? Running objectives on street people to snap em back into PT? Doing anything to help their fellow citizens? Not only do they have little to offer, they’re scared to even disclose they’re Scientologists. For all their OT abilities, passing out Way to Happiness booklets in foreign countries is about all they can confront.
Whether they care to admit it or not, Scientologists are disaffected from their communities.
Last Words
Sorry Ron—and Dave. Got bad news for you. Your OTs aren’t changing the world. They aren’t alleviating pain and suffering. They aren’t improving conditions. Hell…they haven’t even cleared Clearwater.
Still not Declared,
Terra Cognita
“Hell…they haven’t even cleared Clearwater.”
They haven’t even cleared the goddamned Sea Org!
Ever since I saw a YouTube video with OT 7 and 8ts saying we don’t have the abilities LRH claimed “there are no OTs” that was it for me .
And if they ever do “clear” Clearwater, or achieve a semi-significant percentage of clears in the population, it will not be due to the expansion of Scn, but rather due to existing clears and OT’s moving there. In other words, circling the wagons.
Irrefutable argument. Clear, precise, with the right questions and the right conclusions. OT power = Old Ron demented and hiding, far from family and friends dying alone in a bluebird motor home in the middle of nowhere.
Terra – your post and basically all the comments that amplify the “reality” are quite the indictment of Scientology as “delivered”. I’m waiting for your SP declaration and accompanying website decrying the lies are perpetrating here!
When the univ-student me did the personality test and was assessed as too screwed up to function much longer without the intervention of some COS “self-improvement” courses I sure am glad I didn’t take the bait.
Thanks for the interesting analysis and keep up the good work.
ThetaClear, as I’ve stated here and elsewhere many times, no con in the world has ever worked for any length of time without there being SOME truth. And there were points in scio where the individual could make excellent choices and have life changes. For me, that was all quite early in the scio game which shifted mightily in the late 70s. I worked teaching the Comm Course at a local mission where I lived and saw absolutely life changing effects. But the course wasn’t taught over a weekend as a lead into other paying courses or auditing. The course took a minimum of 5-6 weeks and no one was graduated without demonstrating superior TRs. No rote responses accepted! One teenager, who was going along with his mother to Flag, took our course for three very intense weeks, four to five hours daily with relaxing breaks. When he arrived at Flag he was told he had to do the Comm Course. He said he’d already done it. “Well,” they said, “you’ve not had the FLAG comm course!” So he went on to the course and THEY COULD NOT BREAK HIS TRS! The whole Mission was elated when they heard the news.
Btw, I totally believe that Power Processing was cancelled simply because too many completions had leapt forward so far they had become extremely self aware and self directed. Difficult to deal with people like that.
MANY of us had great gains in personal life. No, not in floating ashtrays or anything silly like that. We gained personal interior awareness which has stood the test of time. Unfortunately, things changed for the worse quite rapidly beginning around 1970, accelerating rapidly to the Mission theft debacle and the exit of thousands of upper level individuals, most of whom were declared SPs. Much of that was personally directed by Mighty Mouse DM, the beginning of his reign. Smelling that “mouse”, I quietly left before it actually took place. I’m still appalled at what happened afterwords.
The Narconon program started in the Arizona Prison, the guys could left drugs just doing TR’s, TR´s the hard way, over and over.
Now the Narconon Program includes just silly TRs and you will not see a miracle any more, just relapsed people.
There was an indication about the TRs practice, more TRs more success in life
I am glad that people who are leaving the church is because they TRs are IN in full awareness
The ones that can not confront are still in staff
So TRs are welcome.
“ThetaClear, as I’ve stated here and elsewhere many times, no con in the world has ever worked for any length of time without there being SOME truth.”
Yeah, Peter; I’ve stated that myself quite a few times here in this blog.
“I worked teaching the Comm Course at a local mission where I lived and saw absolutely life changing effects.”
In have lots of reality on that as I had the same exact experience. I personally not only supervised, but actually drilled a lot of individuals through TRs (and in the “Success Through Communication course”), and the changes they got were really something. But as you said, it usually took me lots of hours (weeks) to get that product. I would not stop until each individual sounded perfectly relaxed and natural in his/her communication cycle.
“Btw, I totally believe that Power Processing was cancelled simply because too many completions had leapt forward so far they had become extremely self aware and self directed. Difficult to deal with people like that.”
I wasn’t aware that it was ever cancelled. It has been part of the Bridge ever since. Not that many people go through the “Alternate Clear Route” these days, though, but I’ve seen “Power completions” listed in some issues of AO magazines. I do have heard from quite a few people, that “Power Processing” did delivered good results, though.
“MANY of us had great gains in personal life. No, not in floating ashtrays or anything silly like that. We gained personal interior awareness which has stood the test of time.”
I have always said that I got good stable wins from Scn, and that I have delivered great wins to others as an auditor. And the fact that I think that LRH was full of shit (especially concerning miraculous EPs), isn’t going to change my position, nor make those wins to go away.
“Unfortunately, things changed for the worse quite rapidly beginning around 1970, accelerating rapidly to the Mission theft debacle and the exit of thousands of upper level individuals, most of whom were declared SPs. Much of that was personally directed by Mighty Mouse DM, the beginning of his reign. Smelling that ‘mouse’, I quietly left before it actually took place. I’m still appalled at what happened afterwards.”
I wasn’t much aware at what was happening at the SO Admin level, even though that I was in the SO for a VERY short time (less than a year). And I was mostly in Tech lines, so I had not a lot of contact with terminals outside of my Mission. What I did begun to notice, was a lot of pressure on Stats while sacrificing the quality of service. And being very professional at what I do, I just couldn’t agree with that. So I left. After that, I studied all of Scn on my own getting the materials from many sources, but staying away from “critical” websites, haha.
Whatever WORKS! Brilliantly done. My admiration for you is very high.
Btw, TC, I totally reject the idea that TRs are “hypnotism”. In my late teens, I studied and used hypnotism on others. (Quitting smoking and similar bad habits.) It worked a lot of the time, but not with all. I quit is because I decided that I did not know enough about the mind and was concerned that I could somehow do damage. But to say that TRs made people “hypnotized” was and is ridiculous. Yet a lot on some of the anti scio blogs have been taught that. Not at all correct.
Peter: I never felt hypnotized while doing TRs, nor later while doing objectives on the Survival Rundown–the SRD. I never even considered the phenomenon until someone mentioned the connection in a reply on Mike’s blog.
I agree with you that hypnotism works on some, but not with all. I also don’t believe that “TRs are ‘hypnotism’.” TRs are TRs and hypnotism is hypnotism.
Despite getting sucking into Scientology while on the Comm Course, those drills are not what caused me to continue. To the contrary, I felt more alive and in PT after doing TRs.
At the same time, I can accept how repeatedly doing TRs and objective-type drills could cause some sort of altered state by those susceptible to hypnosis.
I agree with you Terra
“Whatever WORKS! Brilliantly done. My admiration for you is very high”
Thanks Peter, most kind! I also admire your integrity and fairness, 🙂
Did you know that I am “Peter” as well? 🙂
Theta Clear, I respect and honor your approach to life. You are an authentic free thinker; inspiring!
“Theta Clear, I respect and honor your approach to life. You are an authentic free thinker; inspiring!”
Thanks Brian; most kind! I guess that I’ve found in you a good example to emulate! 🙂
Namaste brother!
I love this greeting they give in India:
Nam means I bow to, or, I acknowledge with respect.
Aste is the etymological root of the word star or light.
So Namaste means ‘I bow to the light of the soul in you’.
It’s a beautiful way to greet others by acknowledging their spiritual nature.
Namaste Theta Clear!
BTW, I used to love the term Theta Clear. It is a great concept.
It could be the equivalent of the Sanskrit word jivamukti.
Jiva means the individual soul and is the etymological root of genie or Jinn (soul)
And Mukti means liberation.
So the definition translates to “freed, liberated while living in a body”
“So Namaste means ‘I bow to the light of the soul in you’. It’s a beautiful way to greet others by acknowledging their spiritual nature. Namaste Theta Clear!”
Namaste, Brian!! 🙂 That’s a wonderful greeting; thanks!
“BTW, I used to love the term Theta Clear. It is a great concept. It could be the equivalent of the Sanskrit word jivamukti. Jiva means the individual soul and is the etymological root of genie or Jinn (soul) And Mukti means liberation. So the definition translates to ‘freed, liberated while living in a body’.”
“Jivamukti”? I think I like that word too! 🙂
Peter Nortom, thanks for this. I’m not the only one! My gains from doing the Bridge in the 70s (no floating ashtrays) have stood the test of time. Visiting back into the group now after an absence of 35 years, I’m shocked and saddened by what ‘this’ has become.
Well done, Spike. There are many of us.
Spike what gains (abilities beyond what the average wog has) did you get from doing the bridge?
First you have to promise not to pile on, Wynski.
“First you have to promise not to pile on, Wynski.”
You know what, Spike, it is your decision, but If I were you, I wouldn’t bother. Wynski WILL pile on, I guarantee you that! Your wins are your wins; you need not to explain them to anyone, much less to someone who will not appreciate your efforts.
For sure, Thetaclear, I was thinking that too. Hope you have a great day …
“For sure, Thetaclear, I was thinking that too. Hope you have a great day …”
You too, Spike! 🙂
I can personally attest that Spike recovered the ability to detect b.s, in all forms! Now that’s an OT ability that is worth the money!
“Spike what gains (abilities beyond what the average wog has) did you get from doing the bridge?”
Oh, for Christ’s sakes, Wynski, would you stop harassing others so much about their wins? ANY fucking win from ANY fucking psychotherapy including Scn IS SUBJECTIVE. You are becoming the very thing that you are trying to stop. Would you embrace your Pisces side instead of your Scorpio one?
LOL, Thetaclear!
Hey Thetaclear ,why don’t you lay off Wynski.
Its ok wbber. Scientologists get upset when their false beliefs are exposed and shaken.
It is an indication that they are still cultists.
Peter: The first and BEST process I did in Scientology was the Comm Course: 7 to 10, five nights a week, for 6 weeks.
My brother spent two inheritances on $cientology.
I sincerely hope he got *something* of value to him out of it.
There were many reasons why I drifted away from Scientology. One of them was the discomfort I felt from observing the physical and mental deterioration of people becoming Operating Thetans. During my time at the Delphian School, I worked with several staff members who went all the way up the Bridge—and the further they went, the more pathetic they became. Whether it was a mild-mannered woman who became cruel and spiteful or a hard-charging executive whose shoulders grew stooped while he stared around in confusion, it was impossible to ignore the transformation.
At first I was bitter that I got forty dollars a week while these executives somehow had enough money for their frequent, all-expense-paid trips to Flag so they could go free—essentially for free, since us grunts back at the school had to keep things going during their interminable stays in Florida. After a while, I began to wonder if their out-exchange was making them PTS on their OT levels. What other reason could there be for them to change so much?
Some staff members would constantly express their happiness at the great luck of the Delphian School to have so many OTs. But a few of us could only nod our heads, too afraid to point out the obvious. An OT-3 died in the middle of the level from cancer (“he couldn’t get through the Wall of Fire”). Our OT-7 Headmaster and his constant sniffling (nobody dared to say anything about that, the PTS bastard). The OT-5 Qual Sec who went from mere cheerfulness to terrifying perkiness. The list went on. And my suspicions grew.
My personal experience with OTs is one of consistent dismay at their utter lack of anything remotely resembling spiritual super powers; instead, they invariably retreated into various stages of stoicism, vanity, or insanity.
Always love hearing your stories about Delphi.
Exactly IMT, that’s what I observed.The other one was,” I’m in the Middle of something”, OT Level Carn’t help.
Really put me off heading towards OT.
I loved this post, Terra. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. I’m new to everything Scientology since just recently watching The Aftermath. I’ve been obsessed with educating myself since watching the show. I can’t think of anything more heartbreaking than having my faith stolen. The only loss bigger than losing my faith would be losing my family and it looks like Scientology will absolutely take one, if not both. I feel for the OTs that paid with their time, money, family, etc. to climb to the top believing one thing and realizing it was all a lie once they arrived. I don’t know if I would have the balls to admit it was for nothing. It would have to be a lot less painful to just play along and file papers and restock TP than to admit the cult had stolen my Faith. I admire everyone that has stepped forward to say that it is a sham. I am pissed for you. I hate bullies. I hate thieves and liars. Scientology is the biggest of them all. I have to stand up and spread the word about this because I feel that I have to now that I’m aware. Thank you to everyone that contributes to this blog and especially Mr. Rinder for having the balls to own everything he has done wrong and to do everything in his power to change and protect others from this horrible cult. Thank you so much!
Any comments from the “Celebrities”, Tom Cruise et al??? Was Katie Holmes censured when she divorced Tom C?? These guys don’t seem to be very committed or active in the “church”!? As for me, it was never an issue as I am NOT a fan of Group Think. Thanks
cheers,
My “guess” is that Tom stepped in and made sure that wouldn’t happen. As bad as he looks know, it would have been infinitely worse had scio attacked Katie. In addition, her father is a first rate attorney and would have been all over that!
Perhaps the best we can hope for is that they at least stop harming the world by leaving the C of S.
The OT levels are in large part imagination:
1) imagined flashes of light
2) imagined fedora hats
3) imagined DC8s
4) imagined volcanoes
5) imagined BTs
6) imagined exteriorization (though this is a real phenomena)
7) imagined tax revolts
8) imagined boxes of make believe beings
9) imagined timed tracks
10) imagined cluster condos of imaginary stuck beings
11) imaginary powers
12) imaginary EPs
13) imagining being freed and at cause over self created maginary mental pictures
14) imagined implant commands
15) imagined SPs
16) imagined Xenus
THE STORY OF OT3 IS ALL A SELF AGREED TO, SELF IMAGINARY MIND GAME THAT WE CREATE.
The OT levels are really the process of assigning our own thoughts, body pressures and feelings to an imagination.
And when people attest to an OT level, they are attesting to overcoming their own imagination. They make up the story and then they overcome the story in their imagination.
That is why there are no spiritually liberated Scientologists after 60 years of auditing; not a one. No one went free, totally free on any OT level. It’s all make believe.
But the money you pay for the opportunity to be deluded by imagination is not imaginary.
That is why there are no OTs who can demonstrate what Ron promised. Because it was all based on make believe. A make believe you have to believe, if you want to remain a Scientologist in good standing.
But the very strange thing happens when it’s a high crime to invalidate OTs; the OT cannot accept that they have not attained these things because you become a suppressive when you understand the OT levels for what they are; imaginary mental impressions.
It is a High Crime in Scientology to see the truth of Scientology. The truth, in Scientology, is suppressive.
Think about that for a minute:-) lol!!
Brian: I liked what you wrote about High Crimes. Pretty much any discussion, talk, or essay contrary to church doctrine makes one guilty of such a crime.
Isn’t it just amazing that the Scientologist thinks they are on the road to freedom but are threatened by ethics punishment if they express free thinking?
Such a dangerous mind damaging fraud.
Brian (and Cece below) To disparage imagination or erase it would be to stop the development of the world. That it has been misused by many individuals does not change is value. Without imagination, we’d still be living pre cave. Even the great mind Einstein had this to say about it: “Imagination is more important than knowledge.”
Btw, my cog on OT3 was a simple one, on about Day 4: “Good God, I’m running RON’S case!” Dial wide fns which lasted for weeks! LOL (Of course, that isn’t what I told the C/S or Examiner!!!
I am an artist, imagination is my palette. But selling imagination as objective truth is like the person blasted on LSD imagining they can fly and jump out a 10 story building.
That imagination is not positive. I am not dissing imagination. I am dissing OT3; Ron’s imagination being sold as objective truth.
17. Imagined freedom from overwhelm.
Scientology: the art of convincing human beings that imagination is objective truth.
VERY accurate Brian!
Thank you Wynski
There are not OT’s
People are defined just as Upstat
You can dedicate some time to go in course, pay for some introductory courses for family and relatives who need some kind on enlightment in different areas, be a dedicated neighbor by giving TWTH booklets and buy 200 any year to christmas gifts, love your wife
and renovate your votes, be a good father, brother and even a son, be a good employee, have your adopted dog to a walk every evenning, go to every mayor event at your local org, as part of every work trip take some time to visit the local org, try to improve your health using vitamins, use as first and definive handling to an EP what ever LRH wrote (using tech as KSW ask to), expend your vacation time in the caribean inside the freewinds doing lectures, be a lifetime IAS status, help to VMs to arrive to a task, be very collaborative at course room, be very generous in every org potluck, introduce new people in SCN and donate your commisions, have your library up to date with the new releases and special editions, pay with no regrets your credit card scn debts, try to live acording TWTH in every dinamic, be the guy anyone in the org recognize as a dedicated scn and have a lot of scn friends and commendations BUT even so you will never be an upstat
Being an UPSTAT means that you only flow large ammounts of money
Ethics protects UPSTATS
So you can be a goodwill person and a dedicated scn, OT like no other, but never considered as an UPSTAT
Quite Scary
Very true.
When I was in, two of my closest friends we’re on OT 7 and another had completed OT 8. I couldn’t help but notice that these people were just struggling along in life to maintain a very middle class existence. They were not super beings, just seriously overworked small business owners with a lot of debt and a lot of stress. Being below the state of “clear” myself, I was doing better in life than these people. This is what I supposed to become? Thanks but no thanks.
Kelly
Kelly: Noticed much of the same phenomena–or lack of phenomena!
Thank you terra! I never was OT (I even never was clear) but I considered one of them my friend and I see how my brother is desperate because of the money he needs for level and OT eligibility step. My OT friend loved to talk about how OT levels changed him and about powers that he gained, but generally I couldn’t see any big changes in him, he was always charismatic and charming, very energetic and active, only thing that really changed was his “I know the truth iam on cause other life and all of you not” attitude towards others. Something changed when he returned from flag, when he in one hand started to tell everyone how he was dramaticly reformed by OT 5, and in the other he started to borrow money, and borrow heavy, now I know that he returned from flag broke and spent their over 200k. He is still in and very active, and called me couple of months ago asking another 5k, I didn’t gave them.
Bravo. Probably my favorite post of yours to date. It’s SO bloody spot on and accurate. I challenge anyone to show evidence of anything counter. This IS the way it is.
Great article as always, Terra Cognita.
“Whether they care to admit it or not, Scientologists are disaffected from their communities.”
The level of disaffection has been quite high even since the late ’90s. I remember how I was myself very careful with telling others that I was a Scientologist, because I was fearful of their reactions. The way I “handled” my cognitive dissonance as to why were so many individuals rejecting the very thing that would “free” them, was by thinking, “They are just too low on the Awareness Scale; we’ll pick them up in the next lifetime”, or some other bs like that, like, “They are just dramatizing the ‘4h dynamic engram’ from past ‘whole track implants’, so they are basically being ‘CI’ (counter intention) about it”.
It is just amazing the many “rationalizations” that we Scientologists used to explain things away, to handle our cognitive dissonances. Luckily for me, I no longer need to worry about “planetary destruction”, about “living in eternal pain in an endless darkness”, or about “ruins” that I need to desperatly handle and constantly feeling iincomplete and inadequate because of that. Finally I am really free, which for me actually means being free from having my life being determined by the ideas of others, especially from ANY “authority”, even in the field of science. And I am finally at ease with “Not Knowing” all the answers. Life is basically an uncertainty, and I am ok with that.
Very perceptive!
One of the first things I was made aware of when I first got into Scn was that anyone not an Scn was a wog (an inferior). So, I was immediately saddled with a service fac I didn’t even have before and abasing others was made acceptable because Scn said it was okay. And it was also a way of justifying not being able to disseminate my fervor for Scn to any friends (who just wouldn’t have it at all) because they were too woggy! And when I became upset because my friends didn’t want anything to do with Scn, I was made to disconnect from them because they were suppressives! How in the hell was this supposed to ‘clear the planet’? But I didn’t realize all this until much much later.
When I escaped, I, too, felt free for the first time in 10 years (my ‘sentence’ in the cult); free from punishment, negativity, STRESS, stats, know best, KSW, I could be human. I could smell the jasmine, feel the wind, think of other people positively!
Believe it or not, after almost 40 years, I’m still having realizations of how nice it’s been since leaving.
“When I escaped, I, too, felt free for the first time in 10 years (my ‘sentence’ in the cult); free from punishment, negativity, STRESS, stats, know best, KSW, I could be human. I could smell the jasmine, feel the wind, think of other people positively!”
Yeah, I know the feeling, Rheva! Ain’t that a great feeling indeed!!! Especially the relief from Stat pressure and the looooong hours, haha.
“Believe it or not, after almost 40 years, I’m still having realizations of how nice it’s been since leaving.”
I can imagine! For me, it was as if I had literally gone out of prison! I still can feel that sensation of “freedom at last!!” 🙂
Thetaclear: Sounds as if we had similar experiences when talking about Scientology (or trying not to talk about it). The cognitive dissonance leaked into my head, too.
“Thetaclear: Sounds as if we had similar experiences when talking about Scientology (or trying not to talk about it).”
I have always felt that we had similar experiences, judging by your essays.
“The cognitive dissonance leaked into my head, too.”
Yeah, I can imagine! You know, one positive thing about all this is that people like us can become pretty good at “Critical Thinking”, because we have probably used all possible logical fallacies in our Scn experience; so we have lots of “Mass”, 🙂
“Lots of ‘Mass’.” I love it.
delicious.
“Whether they care to admit it or not, Scientologists are disaffected from their communities.”…. and now with millions of viewers getting caught up on the subject of physical violence and suppression of information starting at the top of management (David Miscavige) Scientologists now have a much wider segment of society looking at them sideways wondering why they endorse that madman. Being a Scientologist in the 70’s and 80’s was always a little weird. You couldn’t talk about it without having to defend it. Now if you say you are a Scientologist you are likely to be thought of as an accomplice to the crimes of human rights violations and fraud. And they are. Every single Scientologist is supporting something they know not of. Really, they just know what they are told and they are being told to look “the other way.” So much for …”a Scientologist is one who looks”.
” Now if you say you are a Scientologist you are likely to be thought of as an accomplice to the crimes of human rights violations and fraud.”
Yep, and the more sunlight that shines on cult crimes the harder it is for clams to continue to claim ignorance of their cult’s serious crimes and systemic human rights abuses. In a minute, they’re all going to be labeled and vilified as Good Scientologists who lived right next $cn’s own Gilead, yet claimed to know nothing about what went on there, after it was all over.
The sooner any practicing scientologist realizes that the whole world suspects them of being complicit in sinister human rights abuses, the more likely they just might (MIGHT) decide to look into the facts themselves, if only to try to cobble together some kind of defense or debate points. Then there is a chance of awakening for that scientologist. The koolaid won’t taste quite as good anymore.
This is why we must all continue to keep applying the pressure on scientology. Every scientolgist that wakes up from the nightmare of scientology, the better the world will be.
Mike funny you should say ” drinking Kool-aid ” reminds me of Jim Jones the psycho that had adults give their own children poison because of one dude says ” hey no one like us anymore, let’s show them ” and what happened they died. Children are being verbally and sexually abused and then brain washed into believing they the abused are to blame. There is no place for this kind of abuse to continue. I cannot believe that there is nothing to bring to the legal battle to them. Some one needs to have the Fed’s delve deeper and aggressively and immediately. I am one who would help any CoS members escape this hamster wheel of insanity in Seattle. There is no judgement no ” I told you so’s”, lets get the family dynamic on track many of us out here want to help. Those to be judged are David M. and his current minons. David your time is up the clock is ticking for your legal woes and eventual prison time to happen. Has many know your goons that support you will be your downfall the will sing like Canaries to save themselves. Those aches and pains you will feel will be from the bus you get thrown under.
Just keep in mind, Betsy, that those behaviors against children and women have been going on for well over 5000 years, and likely before. I don’t believe that stopping scio (a good thing to do) will make any signficant change in those particular areas, sad to say.
Wow, Terra! Your postwas brutal…and completely true. The cult does not contribute anything to the wider world. Nothing. And with making older members re-re-re do basic courses that they did almost two decades ago, I don’t think they’re going to make it. As each year goes by, the cult is slipping away…
The only good that comes out of scientology is that it is keeping the large- ribbon-for-buildings” industry afloat, at least until their IRS tax exempt status is yanked.
The vast majority of OT’s made in Scientology (1970-2009) are either disaffected or are UDRs pretending not to be disaffected (UDR = Under The Radar).
If a Scientologist is active in society and admits he/she is a Scientologist (very few do this, including Scientology missions) then he/she is pitied, not lionized as LRH promised.
The reality is Scientology’s members (OT or not) cannot effect a change in society because they are either disaffected, inactive or pitied. Their leader (David Miscavige) is the only one doing something in a big way on PR, which is creating horrible PR for them because he has tons of money to carry out LRH’s vengefulness on disaffected members. Also, Miscavige fired all the upper management, gotten rid of any LRH safeguard policies like getting money in exchange for auditing/training services, cancelled refund policies, etc.. which might have tempered Miscavige’s psychopathic behavior and prolonged the life of this doomed cult.
So true, Robert.
Very interesting article, Mike Rinder. Certainly speaks to the reality of the scene, which is far from ideal. Perhaps one should rework this admin scale, The premises are undoubtedly incorrect or false. The earlier Classification, Gradation and Awareness Charts had at the top, the road to a new world. Later charts had the road to total freedom.
That is at the top of the bridges. Those should be defined, because a proper admin scale for either of the above needs to be worked out, and probably won’t contain OT’s doing a lot in their local communities…or maybe it will. But without an admin scale nothing will be understood.
As an OT, what is your product? How many OT’s can answer that question? OTs themselves are very special products, and do have abilities and viewpoints many of which are not common to mankind. While mankind today in the US of America is playing “divide and conquer” and OT may, or may not want to choose sides. Some may take a look at conditions and simply say, “why bother” and seek a new world after they die.
Remember, it is all about power of choice. We rehabilitate a being’s power of choice. We free him from fixed positions on the emotional tone scale from bottom to top. That is what we do. That is all that we do. That is auditing. So a being follows his own goals and interests, uninhibited by “case” which is entirely attached to the tone scale. One might say “freedom from” is completely unstuck from every attitude, emotion, sensation, or pain that is unwanted by him or another or others. One might say “freedom to” is truly the power to make up one’s own mind, to choose one’s goals (hopefully altruistic to some degree) to be or not be, do or not do, have or not have anything in this universe, the universe of others, and one’s own universe.
Making ashtrays float in the air is a hidden standard of many OTs. So many times I have looked at an object and thought, how easy it would be to simply mentally shove the cup to the floor (for example) and then reached out and gave it a push. It stayed there. It couldn’t care less. Now there is an attitude, a fixed position on the tone scale. Maybe I need to work on that.
I have known someone, now passed, who could do that sort of thing, moving objects. Showed me more than once. A unique ability, but that person was not totally free on the Gradation Chart, rather he was heavily dramatizing some parts. He also did not continue to go up the bridge, and that tells you a lot about OT.
LRH said that man is basically good. He didn’t say thetans were basically good. Actually they are neither basically good nor bad, but I know of no thetan who will permit himself more power than he considers he can handle…what if that ashtray went out of my control and hit someone on the head?
OT’s have a long way to go before they can objectively start saying, “Look ma, no hands” and having objects obey them instead of the laws of the physical universe. Maybe it isn’t done in a lifetime. Maybe someone needs to come up with instructions. I think it is far more important to come up with admin scales for individual OT’s.
One of Mike’s products as an OT is his writing about OTs. He has seen a lot. He hasn’t seen the “other side of the bridge.” I know this, because he wouldn’t be needing to outflow how Scientology doesn’t work if he had. He is still grappling with the rights and wrongs of Scientology, his certainties that it works and his certainties that it doesn’t work. And of course, the only thing that can mess up a Clear or above is false data. What is Scientology, what isn’t Scientology should clear that up.
An OT needs more than one admin scale. He needs one for each dynamic. That way he will be truly effective.
Pat Krenik
8/20/17
Dodo, I think you didn’t read the article.
You have an awful lot of opinions about me based on an article I didnt write.
Frankly, I cannot follow a large part of what you are saying, so I guess it doesn’t matter much. But just for the record, I have indeed seen the other side of the Bridge. It’s a moldy carrot on the end of a stick.
“But just for the record, I have indeed seen the other side of the Bridge. It’s a moldy carrot on the end of a stick.”
Actually, when one finally arrives at the end of the stick, there is no carrot at all! 🙂
“…no carrot at all.” That’s because they switched cow pies.
The carrot is but a construct…
Unless of course, you brought your credit card.
DYING.
Apparently OT superpowerzzz don’t include reading comprehension.
Comprehension is difficult when running scared.
What the Hell is comprehension?
I don’t understand the question. ?
😛
Mike, I, too, was totally baffled by Pat Krenik’s waffling post. Very invalidative, to say the least, and not understanding or the article…if at all read.
Geez Mike 😉 Hey, the bridge is over, foot goes down. Phoomp! Ok, so this post had me reflecting on what i’ve been doing in my community… But ya’ll don’t need to hear about that.
“I have known someone, now passed, who could do that sort of thing, moving objects. Showed me more than once”.
So you once knew a guy who could move objects with his mind, but he’s dead now. Wow, what more evidence do you need.
Idiot!
I laughed way to hard at this.
Pat, your handle is apt. For many reasons…
Standing in judgement of others and demanding to see their products, so that they can be judged even further. That has a very familiar ring about it. Gee, put it all in a uniform, throw a few ‘sirs’ about and I betcha it would even more fun… OT oppression, splurge on it!
“OTs themselves are very special products, and do have abilities and viewpoints many of which are not common to mankind.”
What viewpoints? What abilities? What is an OT able to do that the majority of other beings aren’t?
“While mankind today in the US of America is playing ‘divide and conquer’ an OT may, or may not want to choose sides. Some may take a look at conditions and simply say, ‘why bother’… (snip). Remember, it is all about power of choice.”
I would argue that “mankind” is not playing divide and conquer, despite the proliferation of opinion on the interwebz or the best puppeteering efforts of the mainstream media and certain activist groups. Most people I know choose not to get stuck on political absolutes. So what really does this OT state offer me other than an overly inflated sense of self?
You’ve witnessed the perfect example of the LRH Scn “Holier than thou, I’m so much better than you, I have it all figured out and know what’s wrong with you” OT attitude.
Just want to add: Since you already hold this point of view firmly in place, you are unable to see the real/actual situation right in front of your eyes. I know, because I used to hold these fixed ideas and it wasn’t until I realized that I was doing this that I could start to see reality in front of me and change my life accordingly.
So Dodo, If I am understanding you, you agree to the doctrines of OT 3 and BTs.
In Scientology, in all of the various permutations of the grade chart, Ron told us that the ultimate freedom can be had in the OT levels.
He told us that we have been waiting for eons for the tech. He told us the tech would clear the planet and this sector of the universe.
He told us that the tech was 100 percent standard and needed to be applied standardly for standard results.
With all that I just wrote, can you please tell me why Ron, after creating OT8, was still running BTs?
And can you please justify the cognitive dissonance of Ron claiming superior mental health knowledge and higher spiritual knowledge that occurs on the OT levels…….
YET RON WAS SUICIDAL WHILE RUNNING BTS.
Dodo, how do you compute this absolute irrationality?
Interesting, Pat.
In the rest of the world, telling someone that you “know” something about them is considered kind of a dick move, Pat. Especially when your “knowledge” is so obviously off the mark.
Interesting comment Pat, thanks for making it! There are 2 things I would bring up here. One is that there is anecdotal evidence around of the command over mest by theta, such as the one you have brought up. So, for me anyway, that is a possible exception that breaks the rule of the absolute authority of the mest universe, and if there is an exception, it is well worth pursuing as a line of inquiry, as LRH did.
As the original OT levels were taken off of the Grade Chart, and the organization giving the pre-OT levels now, is itself a squirrel organization, we have no way to test how those original levels would fair with the prior Nots area handled. Personally I think it is silly for people to become detractors of Scientology without fully testing those original levels to the max, because there just may be something to them.
The second thing is that a large proportion of the people who seem to be doing the most effective damage to the church are people who have done a large part of the Bridge. So the question here is, were these people this effective before they did the Bridge or has the Bridge enhanced their abilities as it was designed to do, maybe a bit of both.
“…a large proportion of the people who seem to be doing the most effective damage to the church are people who have done a large part of the Bridge. So the question here is, were these people this effective before they did the Bridge or has the Bridge enhanced their abilities as it was designed to do, maybe a bit of both.”
One of the all-time greatest comments I have witnessed on this blog!
I think the solar eclipse must be messing with the theta waves and otherworldly forces at play in this universe as things have really taken a turn for the different here over the last little while.
“One of the all-time greatest comments I have witnessed on this blog!
I think the solar eclipse must be messing with the theta waves and otherworldly forces at play in this universe as things have really taken a turn for the different here over the last little while.”
Haha, it must be the solar eclipse, all right, 🙂 I mean, it has even affected my rational abilities, thinking that there was a possibility that the CofS might actually listen to advices of reformation. But then your post on Pastor Willy Rice opened my eyes again, 🙂
“Personally I think it is silly for people to become detractors of Scientology without fully testing those original levels to the max, because there just may be something to them.”
They have been tested by several Indies out here, Rad; but they couldn’t present any proof that they actually worked. There isn’t one single LRH reference where he said that without having handled the “NOTs case” first, that those old OT levels would not work, and it you know of such a reference, them please do quote it. And there were quite a few who did those levels before they were taken out of the Bridge. In fact, I personally know at least 5 individuals that did them all. Do ANY of them have any of those abilities? No, I am afraid they don’t. And there are absolutely no known instances from all the Scientologists who have ever posted online as regards of anyone having achieved such abilities, not even only temporarily beyond perhaps the subjective (and rather undefined) experience of being briefly exterior.
“The second thing is that a large proportion of the people who seem to be doing the most effective damage to the church are people who have done a large part of the Bridge. So the question here is, were these people this effective before they did the Bridge or has the Bridge enhanced their abilities as it was designed to do, maybe a bit of both.”
That’s irrelevant to the point. Perhaps they were helped in some way by the Bridge, perhaps no so much. I’ve never seen Mike asserting that he got absolutely nothing from his experience from Scn. In fact, I’ve never heard that from most of them. But getting some positive results from something and achieving those miraculous EPs are two ENTIRELY different subjects. Those EPs just never occurred.
Well OTs exist. Not as an absolute but to a certain degree. I used to be quite OT (as a result of OT levels and training) and I was actually overwhelmed by bad experiences (out tech I would call black scientology) with the church which is indeed very, very, very suppressive. Actually COS is one of the worst anti-scientology group ever.
I didn’t recover my state.
Now I don’t think as Rad says that original OT levels make OTs as a routine. As ThetaClear said (was it him?) They have occasional exteriorization and that’s it.
Now there was of course Ingo Swann who looks like having a more real experience as he was employed by the US governement to use it.
Now I can tell something I observed.
Some friends of mine were in the church. They had kids and those kids would NEVER step a foot in an org. They simply thought those scientologists were a bunch of gullible idiots. More natter than them was not existing. I liked to share some sarcasm with them, and laugh about scientologists, imitate them. So funny!
Finally my friends left the church and get in comm with some indies.
One of their kids, suddenly was interested by scientology. He got auditing and was just happy. He went up to solo nots. He was really becoming a specialist. Could explain me things I had never understood on Not’s. Started to “assist” his friends using unmetered Not’s. Like the guy says “oh, I feel sad.”.. And he would say “point at the sadness” until the guy could point a spot in space or in the body. And “How would you call it” and it just vanished. People were amazed.
This was scientology without the church, Without having never been a member of the church. And his postulates were so working, everything in his life is going so fast.
When one is away from the group and it’s rules, it seems that the tech can give result.
“Well OTs exist. Not as an absolute but to a certain degree.”
Yes, I can agree to that.
“I used to be quite OT (as a result of OT levels and training) and I was actually overwhelmed by bad experiences (out tech I would call black scientology) with the church which is indeed very, very, very suppressive. Actually COS is one of the worst anti-scientology group ever. I didn’t recover my state.”
I am really sorry about what happened to you, FG, but just remember, the more authorship you place on them about your conditions in life, the less able you will be to As-is those conditions. You gotta own them to do something effective and lasting about it.
Like you, I used to act quite “OT” myself, back in the ’80s. There were few of us in our Mission that were very causative. We became close friends, and we used to play “squirrel” games at trying to exteriorize each other by giving us the command, “Be three feet back of your head”, haha. I would look one of my friends directly on his eyes, and with a Tone-40 command tell them to “Get out” using the order mentioned. In most cases (me included), none of them actually experienced “full perception”, but we did experienced the clear sensation that our viewpoint (the location from which we were perceiving things) HAD shifted, resulting in an incredible feeling of expansiveness and space. Our bodies also felt a lot “lighter”.
Another game that we loved to play was sitting on a chair (at a shopping center food court) next to couples who were arguing or being sort of upset with each other (or anyone being sad), and try to “postulate” a resurgence in their general ARC. Oddly enough, most of the times we succeeded in momentarily raising their tone level as evidenced by their smiles and new extroverted look. Were we delusional? I don’t think so, and I don’t care. We did that just too many times. We were always very uptone to the point of being upsetting even for many Scientologists, haha, who always wondered, “Why on hell are these guys always so damn happy?”
“Now I don’t think as Rad says that original OT levels make OTs as a routine. As ThetaClear said (was it him?) They have occasional exteriorization and that’s it.”
Yeah, that’s has been my own experience, and yes, it was me who said that.
“Now there was of course Ingo Swann who looks like having a more real experience as he was employed by the US government to use it.”
That project eventually failed, and Ingo couldn’t prove anything for certain. But the government has experimented with what they call “Remote Viewing”.
“One of their kids, suddenly was interested by scientology. He got auditing and was just happy. He went up to solo nots. He was really becoming a specialist. Could explain me things I had never understood on Not’s.”
Seems he was a smart kid!
“Started to ‘assist_ his friends using unmetered Not’s.”
Another “squirrel” like me, haha. I just LOVE “squirrels”, 🙂
“Like the guy says ‘oh, I feel sad.’.. And he would say ‘point at the sadness’ until the guy could point a spot in space or in the body. And ‘How would you call it’ and it just vanished. People were amazed.”
Wow, that’s interesting as a technique. I shall try it!
“This was scientology without the church, Without having never been a member of the church. And his postulates were so working, everything in his life is going so fast.
When one is away from the group and its rules, it seems that the tech can give result.”
I have no doubts that the Tech DOES gives results, even if not the “promised” ones, by a long ways. But I have performed myself a few “miracles” here and there with Scn. Do I care if others believe me or if they ask me for “proof”? I am afraid that I DON’T give a rat’s ass about it!! My certainty and theirs is enough for me. We should NEVER allow ourselves to be put in a position of having to “explain” our wins to anybody. That’s suppressive in itself. If someone doesn’t want to use anything from Scn, then that’s their god-damned right to do so. But trying to “convince” others that the wins they felt are not “real” and are just the product of their imagination, is a very STUPID thing to do, indeed!!
Are wins provable ? It’s really a frame of mind, Intirely subjective. Placebo effect indeed. Now I had few experiences as auditor which seems to prove the reality of it. I had a PC back to the seventies (later they wouldn’t have accepted the PC!).
The woman was depressed, so bloody sad. She went for psychotherapy. Had not any idea of scientology at all. The CS was ruds with no technical words like “are you sad ? When did it start ? What happened ? (two way comm style) note reading statement, and precheck it (I wonder if didn’t already tell the story). As she was very invalidated she said “I feel invisible LFBD”. Well I prepchecked it.I didnt realize that it was a level on the tack scale (from HCOB Time Track). The process turned on track incidents. There was a mad TA action. She was amazed having no idea of past lives or anything like that.
It took at least one hour to flatten and have an FN. She didn’t express any VGI’s. I was concerned of having done an “out gradient” session and that she would “red tagged” next day.
Well, next day, she went to the org. Her eyes were sparkling, and she said to the DofP that this morning she felt so light, so happy it was a miracle. She attested to life repair !
And I dont know what happened to her next. Did she keep her win ? I don’t know. But it really happened.
You said this :
“I am really sorry about what happened to you, FG, but just remember, the more authorship you place on them about your conditions in life, the less able you will be to As-is those conditions. You gotta own them to do something effective and lasting about it.”
Well, of course basically one is responsible for himself. Bit it’s often used to soften the responsibility of the church.
If you consider the CS series (and basically the whole of the tech), if PCs goes adrift, has bad indicators, goes sick after auditing or after ethics,it means tech was applied incorrectly, always. This is the red tag rule, one is not allowed not to repair red tag,after 24 hours all stat of the day are cancelled. It’s a terrible high crime. It is the essence of KSW. Not to allow out tech. And he said it’s not government or monoploies which will destroy scientology but out tech, Only out tech, with dissatisfied PC, no results or poor results. He doesnt even speak of totally upset people recieiving service on the tone 1,5;totalitarian auditing, autoritarian tech. They are WILDLY OUT TECH AND OUT ETHICS. Even Hubbard couldn’t imagine such a departure from the ideal scene.
On my case I had ethics handling and was retained on the freewind against my will. I was wildly out list, and I’m still it. Unless David Miscavige is properly SP declared, expelled from the church and brought to justice, I will feel the fricking life is not corrected. All His crime have to be written that any scientologist could read it.
Those people on this blog are all red tag and uncorrected. Miscavige has killed Qual and replace it by RTC which is a travesty of scientology in a nazi valence.
He has faked the source. He is not a scientologist, he is the greatest ennemy scientology ever had. Rimini and all are nothing of that. They actually only do what they do because of Miscavige.
Rimini and Mike Rinder are fist pissed with Miscavige. Without him nothing of that would exist. The majority would still be in the church. If on this blog there are real ennemies of the subject of scientology they must thanks and support Miscavige.
“Are wins provable ? It’s really a frame of mind, Entirely subjective. Placebo effect indeed. Now I had few experiences as auditor which seems to prove the reality of it.”
You know FG, the curious thing about the so called, “Placebo Effect” is that “scientists” have not been able to explain that phenomenon yet. At least not satisfactorily, no. But by accepting the notion of “placebo effect” as true, one is – as a direct conclusion from that premise – accepting (and OFFICIALLY so, I may add) that “Thought” or “Consciousness” CAN alter, modify, or improve both behavior and health. Isn’t that interesting!! For me, the placebo effect is the best proof of many of LRH’s claims about the mechanisms of the mind, though I accept that his views on that are not original in ANY way, shape or form. And that brings hope to my heart, 🙂 There is hope that actual healing can exist.
Wow FG, that was a very interesting story, about this lady you helped. Well done; you have a free mind as a Scn sympathizer. There were not that many like us in Scn. This idea that anyone has what is takes to become a professional therapist is silly indeed. I know VERY few auditors who actually had the skills of a real pro.
Prepchecks is one of those pieces of Tech that I would keep. What is basically does is to “attack” an area of fixated attention (a heavy problem, worry, to use non-Scientologese, haha) from all possible angles that a PC have thought about it, and taking off all considerations, past evaluations, and decisions he/she has made about it. The result is of course, less fixation and more freed attention units which equals extroversion which equals “more happy”.
“Well, of course basically one is responsible for himself. But it’s often used to soften the responsibility of the church.”
I know that it is frequently used by the CofS to avoid being responsible for their own errors, but the datum still applies. When everything has been said and done, it all comes down to the willingness to search for the causes of anything undesirable within ourselves. If this were not the case, if the solution didn’t lay within ourselves, then no healing would ever be possible. That’s what I meant by not misplacing authorship. Now if you understand the Tech as I know you do, and considering this from only that viewpoint (as opposed to other practices), you know that as much a SP as DM can be, hating him or desiring his destruction isn’t going to do any good to you, as you would only be pulling in motivators. Real healing, based on my own experiences, only occurs when forgiveness and the willingness to let go of something is present. Lacking that, there is only sorrow and pain.
Now by that, I don’t mean that he should not be made accountable for his actions; he SHOULD be. But one shouldn’t be emotionally invested on it, because if one is, then you would be heavily holding on to something that will only make your life miserable. Is it worth doing that, I ask you? I don’t think it is. You need to let go of it, my friend. Just let go of it. Do that for your sanity, for your health. I am telling you as a friend, just let go of it; it ain’t worth it.
Please take this to email. It’s just become a personal correspondence.
With DM it’s just a matter of justice. Like a woman who has been raped, if the man who did it is brought to justice, reality comes back.
Scientology was a reality and DM destroyed it. Justice should be brought to restore reality. It’s not about me or personnal hatred, it’s a third dynamic process to put the truth there.
Well, if there was ever an example of someone who does indeed need psychiatric help, DodoBird1, you just might be that person.
Floating ashtrays? Moving objects with the mind?
I saw David Copperfield make the statue of liberty disappear, but he admitted it was a trick. At least he is honest. Can’t say the same about the claims of scientology.
Hi Dodo,
Been a while Pat, good to see your still in the game. Pretty much no one on this blog has rehabilitating of COS in mind. Quite the opposite. The COS has too many overts and real crimes to go much further.
Best to keep Elma ticking along as you and Ray have been doing for years now.
Pat, can you speak in words that don’t use Hubbards half truth terms. I’ve seen both sides of the bridge. And I had some positive results. At what cost. And could I have achieved similar results elsewhere for much less? Yes!
The cost to me, more than a million dollars, years of my life wasted, loss of family, illness that could have been alleviated, and abuse from the criminals who hide behind scientologies “Justice” system.
And I have yet to see one OT who demonstrates a spiritual state worth having. Your comment expresses in your words how trapped you are in your addiction to the illusionary states of Scientology and its fake camaraderie.
TC,
So true. For me the removal of the original OT 4-7 was the final step in my exit from the church. That was their admission (to me) that they could not deliver what was promised per the 1971 chart.
When I later read of these Levels (which were mostly exterior drills) that would have produced observable abilities in the physical universe I saw that it would take years of dedicated drilling to achieve a real result. The orgs would starve while I was on OT4 for 10-15 years while I worked at it until I was stably exterior, and demonstratably so.
You did not do TR0 to a win and attest to the comm course and live your life thereafter with your TRs ‘in’. No, you got wins while doing the TRs but the ability comes from drilling and drilling and not ever getting complacent about holding your position in space and time. The same would have held for OT4 and the rest of those levels. That never happened.
“When I later read of these Levels (which were mostly exterior drills) that would have produced observable abilities in the physical universe I saw that it would take years of dedicated drilling to achieve a real result. The orgs would starve while I was on OT4 for 10-15 years while I worked at it until I was stably exterior, and demonstratably so.”
Jim, after having studied the first 3 ACCs and the PDC lectures in GREAT detail (upon which most of those old levels are based), and after having done myself hundreds!! of hours of such drills for years (which includes the “Old OT levels” drills), I wasn’t even able to create visible (to me, only) “Mock ups”, let alone being able to exteriorize will full perception.
I did got some good things out of it, but nothing even closely resembling LRH’s claims. For example, after those drills, for some reason I have this unique sensation of separateness between what I feel I am as a Consciousness (for lack of a better word), and my body. And after the drills, the physical universe looks quite strange to me (sort of without much substance). But then again, perhaps I only need to wear glasses, haha, or have some hidden neurological condition, 🙂 , I don’t know. All I know is that I no longer feel “trapped” as I used to feel.
Hi Thetaclear,
Thanks for your real experiences on old OT4. ps; I still have my 1973 PCD tapes (7 inch reels!) and got quite a few realizations through Ron, or whoever it was that was channeling Ron. You expressed your wins as I would mine.
Crowley also had drills on prediction and pervasion to get his adept to realize that they were a spirit, quite separate from the body and mind. The three times I went OOB were not deliberate and I slammed back in when I saw what I was doing. Drilling OT4 for a coupla weeks didn’t do squat.
All that fun aside, the COS of today (Which this article from TC is all about.) is but a faint shadow of what lots of us were trying to do back then. It has turned into such a mockery of anything spiritual that to call it a cult is even a lie. Implant station is the only term that comes to mind. Google it if you never-ins are curious.
“Hi Thetaclear,
Thanks for your real experiences on old OT4.”
You are welcome, Jim!
“ ps; I still have my 1973 PCD tapes (7 inch reels!) and got quite a few realizations through Ron, or whoever it was that was channeling Ron.”
Yeah, I always liked those lectures regardless if LRH could actually do those things or not. For me, the reality of it was intuitively possible, you know. Something I could aspire to, even if it would take me years to achieve. Now, I know that it is not currently possible with the known methods, but it doesn’t mean that I have forgotten about the goals; I haven’t.
“You expressed your wins as I would mine.”
Great!
“Crowley also had drills on prediction and pervasion to get his adept to realize that they were a spirit, quite separate from the body and mind.”
So I’ve heard before.
“The three times I went OOB were not deliberate and I slammed back in when I saw what I was doing. Drilling OT4 for a coupla weeks didn’t do squat.”
Yeah, I know the feeling of frustration, all right!
“All that fun aside, the COS of today (Which this article from TC is all about.) is but a faint shadow of what lots of us were trying to do back then.”
Yeah, there were a bunch of us who were after the real thing, and who could actually have a conceptual understanding of those things, even if not a direct experience of them.
“It has turned into such a mockery of anything spiritual that to call it a cult is even a lie. Implant station is the only term that comes to mind.”
That term would do, 🙂
I did google. 3rd down is a link to Rathbun’s blog, pre- lawsuit. Lol
One question for Jim, then I promise not to derail this thread, TC. and Mike Rindaah. Did the slamming back cause you nausea?
Gravity, never
1st: Cooking at stove, thought to put more pepper on omelet, pepper shaker on table behind me plopped on it’s side, eeeeeek! I then tried to do it deliberately with no success.
2nd: Looked for a parking pace 30 miles from where I was driving, woke up in hospital with injuries, ABSOLUTELY stuck in body, required a Cl-7 and pilot version of IntRD to free me up.
3rd: Power hiking, blood sugar level to brain dropped, sat to recover, was forced outside to evaluate the scene, saw body and brain/mind as separate, slowly moved back in as brain/mind began functioning again.
I do not count the times I went ‘high’ from a session, or when expanding to include (pervade) a space greater than the body.
Very cool and fascinating to hear those experiences. Sorry about the hospital one. That sucked.
I had times I flirted with exteriorization. Super happy, felt big, but no thetan eyeballs. Just still seeing out of my body’s eyes.
For the past 20 years I have noticed that all of the top FSMs in Clearwater are always hovering around Flag looking for their next selectee. None of them ever seem to actually bring in new people.
The purpose of a mission is to introduce new people to Scientology. The Bellaire Mission exist solely on public not allowed at Flag,can’t afford Flag ,or children of Flag public.
As for the Clearwater Mission. It’s a joke ,the parking lot is empty ,day and night.
Good point, Joetha. My former FSM, Divona Lewis, Power FSM, told me when I brought her a new raw public who was reaching for spiritual answers, that she didn’t deal with raw public. I asked why? She said because there is no money in it. She said all the good FSM’s go for the OT’s and they fight over the ones who are about to get onto OT VII, because they’ll be getting FSM commissions for years on that. This was before they changed the way FSM’s are paid, meaning now paid only for a new start on auditing or courses. She made no bones about the fact that she was in it for the money and so were all the other FSM’s.
Joetheta, it has been that way (except add the AO’s) since at LEAST 1985.
The program from L. Con in the 1960’s called, Field AUDITORS become Staff.
INDEPENDENT auditors were supposed to bring their paying PCs into the org, get paid a pittance for doing so and then go find more new PCs to turn over for pocket change.
Well, for SOME reason the program never worked (much like the entire subject) so it devolved into public recovering people who escaped the cult and dragging them back in for a % of the service they helped convince them to purchase.
TC, another excellent article. What I notice is that only one thing really defines an OT.
How rich are they and how much of that richness do they donate to Scientology.
Being an OT committee member is for those who don’t have the money. They get to do the grunt work.
I can attest to the fact, there is not one OT that I look up to.
Years ago I did have mentors or Roll models. All gone, retired or tarnished.
We see now an aging group of OTs scrambling around with their walkers.
Sad and satisfying to see the cult of greed bite the dust.
Well… seems like you’re venturing into comedy Terra. Scientology is a punch line for which I’m still trying to find the right words and timing to the joke, your article looks & feels like it has the same sort of dilemma. I have two OT 8s in the family and to put it mildly I scare the crap out of ’em. They are specialists in hiding and as far as my spies tell me the rest of the family feel sorry for them and treat them with a “good roads, good weather” type approach to any matter they find themselves involved with them. Anything financial is treated with the utmost caution and avoided now that we have all subsidized them for their Scientology one way or the other. We all regret dealing with them where Scientology is involved. I think a heroin addict is far more trustworthy!
I’ve wasted enough time expecting and anticipating them to see the way the rest of the family treat/view them but if I was to try to explain it to an outsider it would be on the lines they are mentally impaired and their family, siblings and friends humour them at every opportunity and take nothing they say as serious, especially concerning Scientology.
In other the words being associated on familial terms with OT8s is like being a guardian of a mentally impaired person. They really aren’t smart enough to see how much they are being patronised.
Another observation about them is that they rely on and speak in ultimatums a lot. Their ability to compromise for the sake of unity and family cohesion has been servery impaired.
Very interesting, iyawnalot. I can totally imagine how that would be.
I Yawnalot: Being associated with “OTs” is just weird. It seems the higher they get on the Bridge, the more occluded to the real world they become.
BTW, since my “troubles” with the church, not one OT in my town has tried talking with me. You’d think with all their powers and ability, they’d be able to get me back on the right path.
Qual? Qual? What’s that? Has barely existed for YEARS! It’s all Ethics now. Go to Ethics, find out what your crimes are or who you’re connected to, do amends, toe the line and shut the fuck up.
Mary if Qual EVER really existed in scamology Ron would have been put into a rubber room by the “Qual” people. Never happened though…
Mary and Wynsky: good points.
I didn’t believe it when this notion was first presented to me, but dave doesn’t give a hoot about new people getting in, that is all lip service on his part if he mentions it at all. It’s all about getting money for nothing (Ideal Orgs or IAS). From my observations and several years of studying and reading about what has really been going on, dave doesn’t give a hoot about delivering services to new people, but I’m sure he will give the new ideal org staff shit about not getting new people in because, after all, he can’t do it all himself. He created these ideal orgs and everyone else SCOHB.
No, really, once dave’s reign is done, IT is done and I think he knows it and doesn’t care but he’ll do all he can to make sure he doesn’t get the blame for it.
And Rex Fowler is in prison, and victim Ciancio is dead, his family bereft. OT8s, KSW. Great article TC.
ot’s are as susceptable to serious illness as anyone else, if not more so as they tend to ignore problems the rest of us deal with on the basis that ‘the tech’ will handle them. The most able individuals I’ve met have not been scions but those who know how to motivate others to work with them and with the ability to intelligently solve problems, famous examples of this are Band Aid and Sport Aid from the 80’s, not and ot in sight!
Come on; All of Hubbard’s OT’s and all of Hubbard’s auditors couldn’t stop the Midget from taking over the tiny church of scamology.
ANYONE who has done the [OT] levels and STILL thinks that they give ANY abilities above those possessed by an average human is stark raving mad and belongs in a rubber room.
p.s. “Wins” are meaningless scamology babble.
“p.s. “Wins” are meaningless scamology babble”
I don’t think that’s necessarily the case, Wynski. You – or anybody else for that matter – can’t possibly know what an individual has gotten or not from Scn. Your assertion would mean that all those that I was able to effectively help using Scn (which were a LOT), didn’t have the changes that I myself was able to witness. And I am neither a Kool-Aid drinker nor an Indie; gee, I don’t even like LRH. And I can still use parts of the subject to help family members who think that Scn was a destructive cult that took me away from them for many years ( not due to Disconnection; I was never a slave of anyone) , but yet they have experienced results good enough (especially with Assists) to call me to ask me to “come down to do one of those things you do that help me feel better”.
To say that Scn is totally unworkable, is a logical fallacy of the form of “appealing to emotions”. Can Scn deliver the results it promises that it can deliver? No, in most cases, no by a long ways. Is Scn incapable of helping others? Now, asserting that is too much of a jump in “Critical Thinking”, IMHO.
Theta, until you can give them meaning (outside of a completely subjective viewpoint) they ARE meaningless to the subject.
Call them “ups” instead. Now, I have a science of the spirit. If you follow my instructions you will get “Ups” that you can get nowhere else. They aren’t definable but TRUST me, you can get ups no where else like these.
THAT is why they ARE are meaningless scamology babble.
The fact that Scientology IS HELPFUL is one thing I’ve noticed in all ex-Scientologist stories. It seems like it was helpful to all of them at certain points. Better communication is the main positive I’ve seen/heard from others. I’ve yet to read anything form any former member saying it was all bad or didn’t “work.” Another thing I’ve noticed is everyone that has left the church is extremely intelligent. I think people, including ME before I educated myself, assume only dummies join cults. That is so not true.
I thought it was “helpful”, I did most of everything available, and used it to “help” others. Now I find it difficult to even hear someone ascribe it thusly in any fashion. It was such a pack of lies and delusion.
As one studies the writings and listens to the lectures every bit is laced with lies, falsehoods, exaggerations and pure sci-fi fantasy, and all is presented and MUST be accepted as profound utterances of unalterable truth and hard won insight shared by the greatest genius and friend to mankind.
The ONLY reason I swallowed the ridiculous claims was the ten mile deep rock solid certainty of Hubbard’s ability, values, morality, integrity, intelligence and dedication. Now that I know the truth , I can’t stand to read more than a sentence or two. I SEE the lies and fabrications as if they are highlighted in bas-relief. All my “gains” were imaginary and based upon sheer belief. Without belief they mean nothing.
I now view any possibility of helpfulness as being as helpful as the candy bar offered by the pedophile right before he grabs his victim around the neck. If you accept even one little bit as “helpful” you’ve taken your first step into hell wherein the goal is to take over your mind, enslave you and steal your life. Hubbard was a lying power hungry megalomaniac.
Sign me: 40 years and done.
“The fact that Scientology IS HELPFUL is one thing I’ve noticed in all ex-Scientologist stories. It seems like it was helpful to all of them at certain points. Better communication is the main positive I’ve seen/heard from others.”
Yeah, Mary; that’s has been my own observations as well. In fact, if one studies the personalities of most ex(es) who are now exposing the abuses of the CofS, one thing one immediately notices, is their great abilities as communicators. And I don’t think that they got those abilities out of the blue. And no, Mike; I am not being affected by the solar eclipse on this, haha. Mike, specifically did the PRD (“Primary Rundown”) – if I am not mistaken about it – and it should be obvious his great skills as a writer and communicator. Coincidence or previously acquired skills? I don’t think so.
“I’ve yet to read anything from any former member saying it was all bad or didn’t “work.” Another thing I’ve noticed is everyone that has left the church is extremely intelligent. I think people, including ME before I educated myself, assume only dummies join cults. That is so not true.”
The Scientologists who have rid themselves of the cultic aspect of Scn, are extremely intelligent, most of them. IMHO, most of the individuals who joined Scn, were very smart and able individuals, with a good capacity at communication.
Never did the PRD. No ideas where that notion came from…
I was the first person to complete KTL and then became responsible for the original export of it to the world as only a graduate was allowed to have anything to do with the implementation (what a load of rubbish all that “chicken and the egg theory” was…)
“Never did the PRD. No ideas where that notion came from…”
Sorry for the mistake, Mike; the notion had come from a comment of yours of a few years ago in this blog, but I confused the PRD for the KTL which, remembeing it back now, was what you actually did. My point was indicating that you had been helped in your communication skills as my own observations led me to believe, and as those comments of yours back then seemed to indicate. But if I am mistaken about that, then that’s ok.
“I was the first person to complete KTL and then became responsible for the original export of it to the world as only a graduate was allowed to have anything to do with the implementation”
Well, if someone came looking for a real product of that course (only assuming that the course helped with that) in terms of the ability to communicate, and found you, you would be a perfect example of communication skills, 🙂
“(what a load of rubbish all that “chicken and the egg theory” was…)”
Yes indeed! Rubbish it is!
Mike, wasn’t KTL created by someone(s) other than LRH?
It was compiled by David Phillips and Sue Koon based on very detailed and explicit direction from LRH, including submitting every issue and definition and drawing to him.
The ONE major complaint that has been a constant is from wogs working with ex or current scamologists. And that is … Their robotic & unnatural communication style.
By the time a person is an adult, the VAST majority communicate quite well. Only the fraud Hubbard decided that only HE knew how to communicate.
What fucking joke. He knew how to scam. If it were true you would have scamologists in a LOT of major political positions. Where are they?
Politics? Why would one necessarily go for politics? And where have you observed that the “VAST majority” communicate quite well? Certainly not on the internet! The amount of poor communication, poor spelling, dreadfully poor sentence structure and poor logic (your last paragraph is a good example of that) is staggeringly obvious almost everywhere. And certainly so in politics!
Hubbard laid out some excellent concepts on communication. (I have no idea where he got them and may well have stolen them from someone else.) I was a professional communicator and had never understood the concept of a Comm CYCLE! In doing so, it improved my own ability to do so and had a very positive impact on my career.
As I’ve noted above, if communication is “robotic”, as you state, the Course Sup should have been fired.
“Politics? Why would one necessarily go for politics?”
Exactly!! Why on the name of God would anyone with a good command of communication want to become a politician? I am afraid that you are guilty of a little fallacious argument, Wynski, 🙂 It doesn’t immediately follows that if one has great communication skills, that we must therefore, join politics or even be interested in it. Your BPC with the subject is, IMOH, blinging your objectivity, and I have warned you and others here about this. But have it your way, 🙂
“And where have you observed that the ‘VAST majority’ communicate quite well?”
Another fallacious argument. In fact, it is EXACTLY the opposite that we can easily observe with just going into FB or the Internet, as you says, Peter.
“Certainly not on the internet! The amount of poor communication, poor spelling, dreadfully poor sentence structure and poor logic (your last paragraph is a good example of that) is staggeringly obvious almost everywhere.”
I fully agree on that. Oddly enough, the people that I admire the most due to their great capacity to communicate in clear, simple, and straight-to-the-point ways (Mike Rinder, Leah, Chris Shelton, Mark Sheffler, etc, etc, etc) WERE Scientologists. Well, Mark still uses Scn in his life, but he is a terrific guy, and there is nothing cultic about him at all.
“Hubbard laid out some excellent concepts on communication. (I have no idea where he got them and may well have stolen them from someone else.) I was a professional communicator and had never understood the concept of a Comm CYCLE!”
My own thoughts! Why should it matter where LRH took the concept from? Even if he “stole” it – which in this specific case I don’t think he did – that is totally irrelevant in determining its workability or lack thereof. And if LRH was very wrong in many things – which he WAS!! – that can’t be interpreted that he immediately was wrong at EVERYTHING. I mean, that would be a totally fallacious argument. But you know how it is, Peter, emotions can become a very strong motivation.
“In doing so, it improved my own ability to do so and had a very positive impact on my career.”
I am glad it did! I was myself INCREDIBLE shy before my involvement with Scn, and its comm formula and the drills to command it. So shy, you wouldn’t believe it. I was the “nerdy type” that is frequently stereotyped on the movies. But TRs and my understanding of the Comm Formula as described in detail in “Dianetics 55” changed my whole communication level, and gave me a certainty and self-confidence that I had never experienced in my life.
“As I’ve noted above, if communication is ‘robotic’, as you state, the Course Sup should have been fired.”
Absolutely NONE of the individuals that I personally supervised or drilled the TRs with, became robotic in any way, but just the opposite. I accept, that after the 2000s, the instruction of TRs became more and more robotic in nature as stupid DM decided that he was a “tech guy”, which he NEVER was; but we old-timers know otherwise.
I follow now the works of many psychotherapists who are psychologists, psychiatrists, spiritual healers, etc, etc. Some of them are really great and their knowledge is quite impressive. I know quite a few of them. But oddly enough, and even though that as techniques are concerned they are quite professional, their communication cycle with their patients really sucks, IMHO. They interrupt them just too damn much, they cut their communication, they make evaluations about their cognitions and realizations, they evaluate for them and become directive instead of guiding, and many of such errors as psychotherapists.
Where? Well, in life Peter. The majority of wogs I know communicate FAR better than scamologists.
As far as why politics? If you must ask what being able to communicate has to do with being successful in politics you are too unobservant of real life & history to bother with.
Frankly, that is about the stupidest question I’ve seen in a LONG time. You aren’t by chance a scamologist?
Mike, as I always say: It’s all MAKE BELIEVE! You want it to be true, but, it’s not. There is nothing you will gain. There’s nothing outside yourself that matters. Everything comes from within. I still love playing Jedi Night….ummmmmm…Knight.
OSD, I’m sure that, as a Jedi Knight, you must know that everything everywhere is made up and make believe. However, that is a very powerful mental state to be in. 🙂
GREAT observations!!!
Methinks the massive failure of Scientologists doing anything out in the community is that the cult seeks to completely control their lives. Had LRH or now DM had the sense to leave parishioners alone, I think there would be a ton of positive press about the COS. Hub’s demand for MONEY, MONEY, MONEY or simply high stats have destroyed what could have been a fun group.
When I was a poor staff member I thought if I only had a ton of money, I’d be able to live a decent life and enjoy Scientology. I was wrong. One can never have enough money to keep Scientology out of your life yet remain in good standing.
Ugh.
I FEEL A SUPERPOWER COMING ON !……..Naw, ..it was just gas.
Oh, wow! Is it swamp gas? That’s my favorite gas! Inhale, exhale, then try to find your way out of the swamp.
Your last sentence says it all “Hell… they haven’t even cleared Clearwater.” Dang, the delusion is shocking! My two daughters and I had to divorce their dad, because of Scientology. It’s so sad. He is still a Scientologist… OT7, I think… and we see no positive change in him or his condition … except the typical decline as he ages – just like every other human on this planet.
I can’t imagine how painful that was for you to go through. The decision to take your two daughters had to be one of the hardest to make. I admire your strength. Thank you for sharing!
The reason there are no OT’s changing the world is obvious. No one has ever recovered the OT abilities PROMISED.
“The reason there are no OT’s changing the world is obvious. No one has ever recovered the OT abilities PROMISED.”
Now, ain’t that a one-sentence summary of the whole article? 🙂
Bingo!
Thank you, Mike. Keep up the great work. You have a growing support behind you with more and more learning about the abuses each day. Keeping good thoughts for you and everyone helping
Scientology uses a Bait and Switch method to get people in.
“Achieve YOUR Goals” is one of the brochures we send out to people.
Scientology will covertly shame you from achieving YOUR goals to obtain Scientology’s goals.
Give up all of your money and work for free as a slave.
The leader lives a lavish lifestyle and uses parishoner’s donations to silence critics so no one “in” really knows why the Orgs are vacant and people HATE Scientology. It is because Scientology’s founder was a criminal con man and the current leader is a criminal thug.
There should be a whole show on how Scientology uses high pressured sales tactics and lies to rope people into Scientology.
Does anyone have that glossy promo “Achieve Your Goals”? I hope Mike and Leah do a whole show on the Scientology SHOW that must go on. It is all smoke and mirrors.
People think Scientology “works” because they use meditation techniques that make strange phenomena from the mind. It is all parlor tricks.
Scientology needs to lose their tax exempt status just for the one fact that Scientology uses deceit, fraud and lies to rope people in.
Training is learning how to manipulate others out of their life savings and not taking no for an answer.
Auditing is used to “wrap” Scientological concepts around your thinking so you “think in Scientologese”.
“Scientology’s founder was a criminal con man and the current leader is a criminal thug.”
Well said,Computer Guy. That about sums up scientology leadership in a nutshell.