Just shows you how valuable those OT levels are — the second rundown of SP, the rundown developed to revive “dead” staff is the best thing this OT VIII ever did!
OT VIII is obviously not what it is cracked up to be. It costs a LOT of money to get there. With the promise of having attained along the way all the abilities of Clear. Then removing ALL the entities that are otherwise causing you not to really be “clear” on OT III. Then doing them again on OT V. And then again on OT VII — this time to make you cause over life and your body transparent. And then finally no more amnesia on the whole track with “truth revealed.” And yet this guy, who has done all that had his biggest win ever on the so-called “Dead-Man Pilot.”
This is how Dan Koon described it in the write-up on Super Power published here in 2013:
LRH’s general notion was that some (or many) staff were irresponsible on their jobs because they were, as stated above, more or less dead as beings. In fact, the colloquial name for the rundown when it was piloted was the Dead Man Pilot. The general approach, as near as I can remember, was to assess a list of possible conditions such as deadness, unconsciousness, unfeeling, numbness, etc., on the pc and then address whatever read with processes. The processes were recall processes on whatever items read. For example, if “deadness” read on the list, the auditor would run, F1, “Recall deadness.” F2, Recall another’s deadness,” F3, “Recall others’ deadness,” F0, “Recall your own deadness,” or commands to that effect.
The idea was to take the person out of whatever past experiences had been laying on him or her like a lead blanket and enable them to come back to life.
This rundown was piloted to some extent in 1978 but not finalized at that time that I recall. It is also known as the Criminality Rundown in some issues, so far as I recall.
There has been plenty of debate on this blog recently about whether the promises of scientology technology are delivered. And make no mistake, they ARE promises — unlike any other religion that tells you “if you believe x you will go to heaven” scientology claims if you DO x you will attain y state. And the “do” in the equation is a specific scientology service. No other religion makes such absolute claims of results. In fact, no self-help group, psychotherapy or psychiatric practice makes such ironclad claims and promises.
This is not to say that there is nothing good to be gained from anything in scientology.
But it is to say that the assertions are at best misleading and at worst dishonest.
And they are unabashed about it.
Otherwise one would NEVER see a promo piece like this. They will literally say ANYTHING to get people to give them money for another service.
Thank you @Brian for your comment above in this thread ..
Invalid security token .. what this means when I get such a message after writing a comment here ..
Every party has a pooper that’s why we don’t invite you, Davy pooper, Davey pooper…
As a “never-in”, I want to share my experience with SCN tech, and a “win” my son experienced, despite not knowing until years later that the program was SCN.
When I moved to clearwater, my neighbor recommended a reading program for my 5 year old. She was not a Scientologist, but she and friends had been getting “tutoring” from a local program. (I don’t recall the name of the owner, but I think I read in Tony/Mike/Marty’s blogs over the years that there was some controversy surrounding her running/overcharging SCN schools or something, but in the early 2000’s she had a small office on Drew St.).
My son was having trouble transitioning from Montessori – where the letters of the alphabet are pronounced, to a traditional elementary program, where they are named (C is “KA” not “Sea”). Anyway, his teacher suggested tutoring, and we went to this place. I observed the tech – that included some breathing and other unfamiliar thought clearing, etc., but he got some great benefit, and after 3-4 visits, he was good to go. I wasn’t recruited to Scientology; There were MANY non SCN that were taking courses there at this time.
There is a saying that all religions and diets work to deliver some self awareness and improvement if you stick to them… and many organizations started with good intent are corrupted by man (Christianity had the crusades, Islam has ISIS). I’m not discounting the corruption, horror, and probable dishonest intent of LRH and DM, but I do understand how the enthusiasm from experiencing self-improvement from early “tech” could lead to a larger commitment that was, ultimately, preyed upon.
I think the corrupt corporation and “human trafficking” organization that is SCN needs to be exposed and prosecuted(!). I am also comfortable accepting that my son benefited from some of the SCN reading techniques.
Thanks — helpful and intelligent comment.
Hi Tampa mom,Welcome and good to meet you.Thank you for your post.You give a reasoned account of your experience with some study tech those who know more correct me if I’m wrong,which greatly helped your son.I am happy for you both.The trouble I have & I have done this more than once,because the SO Journey is so so incredibly Intense I can get in a mind set that all cos is like that 100% of the time.I have to turn off that danger switch in my mind & listen & read posts such as yours that find middle ground.With me all Ron Tech Ethics Punishments SO way were so throughly stewed for years it all runs together.I like reading other viewpoints to see the bigger picture from the outside.But no Miss Ann can never worship Ron/David the tech the policies the Cult as I did.Very Best Ann.
Thank you for your reply. I have much sympathy and admiration for those of you who gave up your lives in honest pursuit of selfless service, only to be used and abused. How difficult to get clarity and leave, and have to re-visit your experiences with new incite. I can only imagine your anger, grief, and real struggles to build a life outside.
I would hope you never turn off your “danger switch” as it relates to your experiences – that is what, ultimately, set you free!
Hi Tampa mom,Thank you so much! Yes I’ll put the danger on pause when needed.My very best. Ann.
What is invalid security token?
Hi Friend,Good to meet you! You know I had security checks in SO but I did not have to bring a token to my smiling sec checkers- they could not wait to do lists & questions.So I think it is a token that does not allow you in to Ron /David’s Amusement Park World & Ultra Rundown Center.But between us we have to ask OSD (old surfer dude) as he is the gate keeper, token thumbs up thumbs down He knows that I would rather an invalid security token than a valid one I had enough SO & Ron as it is.OK I’m being silly,one of these serious bloggers could tell me what that is.Best Ann.
Nothing to worry about: https://wordpress.org/support/topic/invalid-security-token-message-when-leaving-comments
What a load of horseshit. How would or could anyone take el r flubard seriously?
The circularity of this “reasoning” is just amazing: “My greatest win is that I can get others back into the cult, where THEIR greatest win–several $100 k later–will be to learn the tricks of luring others back in.” Round and round it goes…
It’s amusing that one “OT 8” is crazy enough to accept this, let alone say it out loud. It is mind boggling that whoever put out this advertisement did not catch this and considers this “win” good enough to advertise. Makes one wonder how shitty their other “wins” were that this is the best they can do!
Davey’s problems with doing the “bridge” are the same as everybody’s : time and money. And with his having to do everything himself, he’ll never “make it”. Poor, poor Davey !
Davey is totally untrained he uses the only
process he knows for everything, “Hunt and Punch”
Gosh, weren’t they a comedy duo? You know, like Punch and Judy? Or am I just having flashbacks?
EagleEye, more likely is that DM, being one of a handful in the SO who KNOW for a fact that the “bridge to OT” is completely false, doesn’t bother wasting time better spent living a luxurious life on other peoples money.
Remember, he knows that there are no real OT levels to reach.
In the heady, post-acid trip days of the 1960s and 1970s, Scientology’s promises seemed possible. Many had walked through what Huxley called the Doors of Perception and directly saw that there were different forms of consciousness through which to experience the world.
Many in Scientology during that period were not captivated by Hubbard as a dogmatist so much as by the hope that maybe someone had indeed found a structured path to those other states of consciousness.
Back then, if someone claimed an OT might become transparent, Scientologists would not have necessarily questioned it. They might reason that maybe we never see any OT 8s because (a) they have indeed become transparent and/or (b) they have “as-ised*” themselves and totally vanished!
Some Scientologists in the 1970s seemed to think many hit songs were about the dreams of Scientology and were a validation of those dreams: Iridescent (“at first, I was iridescent, then I became transparent,” Starship, 1970), On a Clear Day You Can See Forever (film in 1970, about a woman with ESP who is reincarnated), Ride Captain Ride (some claimed it was about Hubbard and the Sea Org, Blues Image, 1970), White Rabbit (Jefferson Airplane, 1967), The Long and Winding Road (Beatles, 1970), and so on — even Bridge over Troubled Water (Simon & Garfunkel, 1970).
Hmm. Maybe the song folks should have paid more attention to back then was The Boxer (Simon & Garfunkel, 1970) which had the lines “I have squandered my resistance for a pocketful of mumbles, such are promises. All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest …”
For actual delivery of its promises, that is all that Scientology actually reached: a pocketful of mumbles … all lies and jest.
*as-is: to view anything exactly as it is, without any distortions or lies, at which moment it vanishes and ceases to exist. (from http://www.scientologymyths.info/definitions/dianetics-and-scientology-definitions.html)
“In the heady, post-acid trip days of the 1960s and 1970s, Scientology’s promises seemed possible. Many had walked through what Huxley called the Doors of Perception and directly saw that there were different forms of consciousness through which to experience the world.”
Exactly. which is why the # of new people in started collapsing in the late 70’s. That demographic had moved on with life. The generation a bit younger than them weren’t so gullible in the spiritual arena and so scn started collapsing.
At this point with all the data about El Con and scn as a subject readily available on the internet, it is dead forever.
“Deadness” of donors might be the reason behind Scientology not expanding fast enough, now that GAT II is in place. The public should be screaming and reaching out for Scientology with outstretched talons but instead they are bewildered by the deadness of the Ideal Orgs. Also, the dated decorations. Take, for example, the London Ideal Org at 146 QVS. By rights, the place should be heaving with rich paying public gushing Success Stories and bringing in other rich friends to share the gains they have got. But instead, there is deadness and old decorations. This “Deadness Rundown” needs to be expanded and all the Scn paying public need to be forced to do it so they become more alive and therefore donating more to allow World Clearing to happen.
Super Power was invented from LRH for staff .. read the ethics repair rundown .. it is all for staff .. has nothing to do with a public .. if you read it right, you will find that LRH wanted to correct wrong understandings of others .. applied as rightness .. it is directed against mishandled ethics against you ..
Correct friend. Typical insanity. Create a problem (scn ethics tek) then create a solution to the mess you created. Which results in other messes. Rinse repeat.
Chilling, John. Sometimes it’s hard for me to wrap my mind around the insanity. I’m wondering if being on staff or SO can actually cause mental illness? What do you think, my friend?
OSD, in my time on staff from AO’s up through Int, the majority that were batsh!t crazy had made it at least up through clear and onto an OT level. Otherwise, they weren’t that nuts. So, I’d say it was copious amounts of auditing that pushed most over the edge. Also, the most senior auditor/cs/processed person in Scn was stark raving mad and suicidal. (El Con hisself)
Mike, you wrote: “This is not to say that there is nothing good to be gained from anything in scientology.”
That’s how it looks to me. While completely dismissing LRH’s “superhuman abilities” claims, space opera nonsense, pre-natal or pre-existence engrams, and much else besides, I can see some value for people in the early psychological exercises such as TRs, the Emotional Tone Scale (as written if not as applied), auditing (used as a helpful tool and not as a bludgeon), self-analysis questions, sayings or aphorisms such as “confront” or ‘be the cause, not the effect,” and so forth. Maybe it’s no more than helping certain people out of their shells, or to be more assertive, or to discuss old problems with somebody who’s there to listen, but there’s nothing wrong with any of that.
Hubbard may not have invented much, or anything, but he was clearly a great reader and had a gift for synthesizing ideas. He seems to have impressed some intelligent people as a teacher or lecturer. Unfortunately he was too flawed/crazy/greedy as a human being to leave behind a great institution. Instead he left behind CoS with all the built-in factors that made it what it is today–perfectly horrible.
But I’m curious–this isn’t a trick question–to know what you (or others) see as the good things that can be gained from “anything in scientology.” You were inside for an awful long time.
Thanks — and because I dont have a lot of time I will answer VERY generally and very briefly. I think the parts of scientology that address problems you may have with one on one counseling have benefit, especially when they are NOT intended to lead you to the “next step” but are recognized for what they are. It doesnt mean it’s more or less effective than the same sort of one on one counseling that others might administer — maybe it and maybe it isn’t, I havent experienced other forms of this. But I think that this sort of approach benefited me in my personal estimation of myself. I think there is value in learning communication skills. Even addressing the subject. I think there is value in learning grammar on KTL. Or even learning how to use a dictionary and knowing the meaning of words, though not the entirety of “study tech” as I think it becomes way too rigid. There are probably other things, but this is as I said, fast and general as I dont have time to give a full response.
I totally agree with you Mike. I had wins from everything you mentioned. I still haven’t been able to reconcile the good with the bad in Scientology. I really would like to figure the whole thing out. But I certainly don’t want the false certainty that the ‘critics’ and the ‘true believers’ both have.
Whatever makes you smile, makes you smile.
The variety of reasons why are personal, unless you are depraved or criminal it’s OK to do what feels good. Who could deny that?
That’s what can be so tricky, and confusing about Scientology. There IS stuff that works. And there’s stuff that works really well, that isn’t found elsewhere, that I can find. Overt-motivator sequence; is brilliant, and it is an observable phenomena. I see people regularly who crave motivators out there like junkies crave heroin. Tone scale is pretty accurate as far as I can see. Tr’s really do increase your confront. I’m glad I did them. My viewpoint in Scientology is, I know what I know, I know what I don’t know, and I know there is stuff I have no experience either way. I know there’s a lot of bullshit. Lots of lying, and crazy shit. A lot of unworkable things. I think a lot of wishful thinking amongst many of the Kool Aid guzzlers. A lot of good people. Maybe too many fanatics though. It’s definitely not a black and white issue. Definitely drain the bath water. But there are some babies worth saving. I use Scientology every day. Some of it is genius. On the other hand, I want nothing to do with the organization.
Nicely stated Overrun in California. These are my thoughts as well.
My thoughts too, Overrun in CA. Well said.
If one cannot recognize the good parts of Scn they will never understand how or why an intelligent person chooses to be part of it. I was a member for 30 years, had a lot of auditing and training, was on staff as well. I had two experiences during auditing that defy explanation, deeply profound, spiritual experiences. Am I better off for having experienced that? I think so.
As has been pointed out, subjective experiences are almost impossible to validate objectively, and it’s rather pointless to go on trying to. In my opinion, ALL auditing is subjective.
People don’t go on insisting the Buddhist objectively “prove” the inner peace he experienced during meditation, so why do it to a Scnist about auditing?
The Church creates its own problems in this area. They market the abilities gained on the auditing side of the Bridge as objective results. They are not, nor will they ever be. I feel this is a deceptive practice and quite possibly fraudulent.
So, while a person may feel they have received a positive, subjective gain from auditing, the story does not end there. They are also part of a group. And that group over the years has become more and more fanatical and intolerant. These forces are constantly at work on the individual, sometimes it is subtle.
The goal, in my opinion, is for the individual to surrender their self-determinism and become fully other-determined. Currently, that “other determinism” is Command Intention. In other words, they want you to be fully “with the program”, which means doing whatever they want, even if what they want is harmful to oneself or family. That may mean going into debt, lying, disconnecting from friends or family, or violating human rights.
In this regard, Scn ends up doing a 180. You’ve spent years and a lot of money finding out who you are and increasing your awareness, and in the end you are expected to adopt some synthetic personality of an “Ideal Scnist” who must not think for themselves, and instead become (as Marty Rathbun calls it) a Scientology Warrior.
“The goal, in my opinion, is for the individual to surrender their self-determinism and become fully other-determined”.
Very true. But the cult takes it a step further.
While they’re working on getting you to do what THEY want, they’re also working on getting you to BELIEVE that you doing what THEY want do is actually what YOU really want. And the more you don’t want to do it is the more they’ll work on you this way.
See, its not OK for you to CAPITULATE, and do it, albeit unwillingly.
No! You have to like it. You have to be enthusiastic! YOU have to want it.
They work on convincing YOU to convince THEM that what THEY want is really and truly what YOU want.
And that’s brainwashing. And evidence exists that they’re pretty good at it.
Very true AM. This is quite insidious, and to be honest I’m not quite sure where this originates. Maybe it is just woven into the fabric of Scn? Certainly Hubbard’s militant fanaticism contributes to this. As well his “unreasonableness” seems to have inspired a dispassionate nouveau Stasti.
One thing I am certain of, in the end, Scn is ALL ABOUT SCIENTOLOGY – the group is ALL, the individual NOTHING. The group is quite willing to do anything if it is perceived as beneficial for the group. The individual, their family, their friends, their finances, their future, their health, their sanity – all can be sacrificed for the “good” of the group.
Hell of a comment statpush! You said it all very well reflecting my thoughts exactly.
Someone should run this on Miscavige with the button “oblivious”.
I have no comment at this time other than: Is the image in this post a Longmire shot, Mike? I loved that show. When it airs on Netflix, I will have a reason to pay for Netflix. (cue horrible jenna elfman jokes).
That’s the exact same process as described in DMSMH in 1950 by LRH, the insane leader of the crime cult.
Really? DMSMH is this? That is fascinating if so…
Either way, when one develops a Rundown with the usual judgmental premise of ‘needed because people are dead and irresponsible” ,or whatever other wording may be,you have already been invalidated as someone not ok, plus evaluated on why you are that way and then told you are going to achieve “X” with that rundown.
Why not ask the person how does he feel or does he want to say something? That will show a more sincere interest and care, ingredients that have been notably lacking in the ‘church’. Dishonesty won’t last long.
Gayle and SILVIA, I loved both of your comments. Thank you.
Hi Aqumarine, Thank you for your sensitive post.Here is my thought.I think even if you had been put through the SO Wringer & flashed dry you too,you would have survived & moved on & up eventually.I feel you really are a bright light spirit with so much to give the world.I’m still in a chance of messed up days due to my SOmAdventure but I’m working on that.The days that are really bad I don’t post until I feel better.XO Ann.
The reality is it’s NOT all a scam. That’s the problem!!! The “church” keeps it’s grip on people’s “ethics and actions” by holding them hostage with the fact that there ARE some major values to the tech itself.
I’m no dupe. It’s why I LEFT the church. I was forced to face the fact that the organization was the fraud but can’t be forced through peer pressure, assertions by those who have never had wins with auditing through never having any or having it badly delivered or anything else to say it’s all a scam or all hype.
If you could spend an hour in my shoes as an auditor and see what happens in a session, a program or a major step of auditing you would see for yourself what I see. It is undeniable that there is something to be gained from it. I’ve seen it all from a very slow, gradual improvement of a person’s confidence and love for his fellow man to literally life saving changes. Doing something just for money is not in me, it’s not who I am. Auditing people is done out of demand for it and love of providing it for those who see it’s changes it helps them to make.
I believe that an OT VIII is capable of continuing to experience gains and realizations and benefits in life but to have those gains these OT VIIs and VIIIs and everyone else inside the bubble have to give up control of their own lives and that’s the bottom line. cob has created a loop hole at the top where to complete or move on within the bubble you have to give up your self-determinism and be cob-determined. The really sane ones are going to fly off that wheel and go in to the world and be free – truly free to see life as it is in all it’s beauty and all of it’s ugly. To be a VII or VIII and stay IN means to submit yourself fully to cob’s will while attesting to obtaining levels of awareness and understanding that if true gives you the ability to never do that again as you have become so at peace with who you are and found the love in the world of differences that you could stand in a hurricane and admire the sun’s absence and the winds power while being smart enough to get the hell out of the storm and take cover.
When someone is being someone for someone else’s approval, satisfaction and praise it’s the opposite of freedom. It’s ignoring the fact that they’re being, doing and saying what they have been taught to be, do and say. It’s sad, disgusting and humiliating – that’s what that man’s “win” is to me.
Gayle said, “…by holding them hostage with the fact that there ARE some major values to the tech itself. ”
Really? Elaborate of them (without using wishy-washy subjective babble) so that those who haven’t been so lucky as to have been subjected to it can understand.
See response to Espi. Subjective isn’t wrong or out of place when you are talking about personal experience. It is the definition of subjective. The only thing you will convince her of is that you are an asshole and the only thing she will convince you of is that she is a brainwashed robot. Neither of these are true.
That’s why I don’t want these chasm shouting contests to go on.
Well Mike what I can say is true that anyone who could conceive of me as being “a brainwashed robot” would most likely be the kind or person others would describe as being an asshole. 😉
🙂
Show me documented, scientific, peer-reviewed proof of the existence of engrams.
Show me documented, scientific, peer-reviewed proof of the reactive mind.
Show me documented, scientific, peer-reviewed proof that the Putrif works as stated by L. Fraud.
Show me documented, scientific, peer-reviewed proof that the Hawaiian Islands and Las Palmas existed seventy-five million years ago.
And lastly, show me a motherfucking Clear.
The Tech is a joke, whether it’s red on white, green on white, or blue on white. It’s the product of an incompetent failure who stumbled his way into being able to exploits the weaknesses in a zeitgeist and somehow convinced people that he was “profound”.
Kill the cult of Hubbard. Destroy even the ruins.
THis “debate” is no debate at all. It’s just shouting from one side of the chasm at the other side and they shout back and there is no chance of any meeting to reach a resolution as the chasm between the sides is so massive nobody even knows where the bottom is.
I don’t want this to turn into another back and forth about “prove there are engrams” on one side and “how do you know I am not better/happier/getting something out of this” on the other.
I am including your comment not to elicit a response — I am not going to approve any more comments in this chasm shouting contest — just so you everyone who may be so inclined is aware and they don’t waste their valuable branpower typing comments that end up in the trash….
The key question is, does it help? (Which implies an answer on what needs to be helped.)
The stated goal of Scientology tech, are releases, clears and OTs with the attributes of ability and condition that go along with these.
I have done it all up to OT VII and in my experience and what I have seen from plenty of others the stated goals of Scientology tech have never been obtained by me or hundreds of people I have seen firsthand. That does not mean at some points one has not felt better or felt happy. It simply means there is this fact that the promises of what the tech will deliver are to 100% not met.
There are many things that can feel you happy or feel better. From comfort food, to se to drugs and a win in life like scoring a better job, getting recognition and so forth. So the claim the tech is making some feel better is really no therapeutic claim whatsoever that would prove any value to the tech as life as such produces those phenomes.
Any reasonable goal for therapy I have seen could be summarized in a way that it centers in making a person more accepting of itself and others, more forgiving and allow the person to find his own unique way in life by enabling the person to perceive the truth about themselves and others. (…quite a difference to the goals of Scientology for a super human).
The general understanding of this principle is thousands of years old “‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.”
So than the question can be raised, what does the tech do? And how does relate to the general goal of therapy?
I found the facts paint a dark and cruel picture. The estimated cancer rate is about twice as high for Scientology “OT’s” as it is for the general population. While this might be explained by the constant duress this group is exposed to and this stress impact on their immune system it is by far not the worst fact.
Many people having been exposed to Scientology tech (training and processing) have completely lost any sense for reality and truth and are incapable of recognizing facts. They have lost any openness together with any capacity for skeptical and critical thinking making them gullible to the extreme. They are made extremely vulnerable to believe not only in the DM bullshit, but almost any fad from chemtrails, the latest conspiracy theory, miracle treatments and get quick rich schemes you name it. It is obvious Scientology tech leads to gross loss of reality and produces self-perpetuating delusional states. This is the direct opposite of any reasonable goal for therapy I was able to find.
Scientology tech is counterproductive and damaging, which is not surprising as its architecture and setup sprang from a paranoid and manic depressive mind with a narcissistic disorder of epic proportions.
While many have found a way out of this trap, there is a great big number that are damaged for live or at least decades of their life.
IMO the thing that helps best when getting out of the Church is to realize the cult is still within engraved in one’s mind. It requires a critical review of the tech the study of data of comparable magnitude, so one can re-evaluated one’s own programming and discard the destructive forces of the cult.
In this sense one could say this blog is very therapeutic.
Gayle, I loved your post and agree 100%. I’ve never done my OT levels, only got auditing on my lower bridge, and I’m not Clear. I was helped a great deal by the auditing I received, and the courses I did. These really did assist me in turning my life around very much for the better. Also, I never had any real desire to have super powers. I still don’t. Maybe I would have shed my pedestrian goals if I had gotten more auditing but what I got helped me and then I left because of severe disagreements with Ideal Org Fundraising and IAS Fundraising. Later, after I left, I found out about all the abuses, the Fair Game, Disconnection horrors.
Now my experience with the tech doesn’t invalidate any one else’s that may have been different. I’m only sharing it because I agree that the problem is that the tech is NOT wholly a scam. If it WERE wholly a scam there would BE no problem! So I think that you pointing this out was brilliant.
Also, I’ve never been to Flag, nor have I never been SO or on staff, so I effectively dodged many, many bullets.
You lucky girl!
Yes, I agree, OSD. I was lucky. Not lucky in other ways, and pretty unlucky in my early life, but in this, yes, very.
I can only imagine, and not in a good way, how these experiences connected to being Class V staff, SO, or if I had made it to my OT levels and been used and scammed and fleeced with 6 month sec checks, if I had had to abuse and lie to others or had seen others lied to and abused, I can only imagine how severely disillusioning it would have been for me. I have no doubt that such would have ruined everything LRH for me completely.. It didn’t happen to me, but I can look from the viewpoints of those to whom these things did happen – horrible, unthinkable – words that don’t begin to cover the enormity of it. I don’t think I would have, could have, recovered.
Aquamarine is a girl?
Aqua, if you had ever joined staff or SO, you would have found out what “loss of freedom” really means. When I left staff in Hawai’i, that was THE greatest day of my life up to that point. Freedom never tasted so good! I’m so very glad you never had to experience that.
Hi OSD,I am so glad all you wonderful staff org & mission members who worked your tails off too,did not have to experience triple doses of the love compassion and caring that the So employs.I recall when renovating Big Blue,a few of us had some really grungy clean up job,probably because I TRed my superior in Div 2 without blinking longer than she could do.So two or three of us spend hours TSPing & scrapping the baby nurseries there.When we were all alone in the bowels of that complex we felt like prisoners sent to the rock pile! No talk just I knew all this was not kosher,something about SO discipline was so off.I wrote to many many orbs & missions too & back in the 70s there were some super beings there doing super work.I salute & love y’all.Ann.
Good comment, Aquamarine. And Mike, “I am including your comment not to elicit a response — I am not going to approve any more comments in this chasm shouting contest — just so you everyone who may be so inclined is aware and they don’t waste their valuable brainpower typing comments that end up in the trash….” Thank you for this, Mike. A good moderator will put an end to sneering and invalidative chasm shouting, and you are a good moderator. Thank you.
🙂 Al Brown is a boy?
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice, Aqua!
First there was super-human “clear” but that came to an embarrassing fate then it was super-human OT. Hubbard advanced the notion that we are supposed to be super-humans with super-human abilities. That means we have the potential to move matter with our thoughts. That might be putting it crudely but that’s essentially it. Therefore, until you have attained such powers you need bought scientology product.
There is no evidence beyond some tall tales about yogis levitating, etc that such powers exist. As a scientifically-minded man I know you can’t say something doesn’t exist but if you say it does then the burden of proof is on you. That’s not just where Hubbard falls down but more importantly that’s where scientologists who believe that stuff fall down and it looks like many of them can’t get up even after leaving the fold.
At the Orange County org, my auditor, Dave Petitt, kept pushing me to attest to clear. However, the definition of clear was, “A Clear is to a normal person, what a normal person is to the institutionally insane.” That is one HUGE gap. And I didn’t feel it. The ED didn’t like me telling him this. I left that day for good. Yea for me!
OSD, that should have read, “A Clear is to a normal person, what a normal person is to L. Ron Hubbard…”
Dave Petitt came to our M’org once for a fundraiser. What a phony. I read later on the internet about what a hotheaded bully he is. Butter didn’t melt in his mouth that day, though.
Damn, John! You come up with some really funny shit! I love it: A Clear is to a normal person, what normal person is to L. Rong Blubber. LMAO!
George,from Georges General Store (across the street from AOLA)
When he achieved OT 8 his win was he stopped smoking and vacationed
in Brazil after he left the Freewinds.
True story,real OT 8 wins.
I remember George! I asked a few of the very first 8 comps about getting their amnesia handled. Boy oh boy you’ve never seen someone change the subject and then physically disappear SO damn fast. All those who did OT levels and then continued to scam others after they KNEW they had not gotten any OT powers deserve whatever they get.
Sort of the blind leading the blind…into misery.
On the subject of OT 8 wins, one of them gave a talk to us once at my org. I was expecting something…SOMETHING, you know? What she shared was something I anyone with a little common sense and gumption could have pulled off – forget about being a Scientologist and OT 8 yet. I was mildly shocked and confused too. Then, I thought, “Well, maybe for HER, this is an amazing OT 8 win”, which didn’t say much for her operating state BEFORE OT8. I also saw lots of OT 7s with body problems and I used to think, “THIS is ’cause over mest’ – someone with THIS body issue?” Forget it! Clears, OTs, the lot of them, they had colds, flu, arthritis, other worse body problems, finance problems, just as we on the lower bridge did, just as non-Scientologists did, if not more so. And yet they would get up there and give little talks about being OT and “what it REALLY takes to get to OT”. And how their “space” was so “clean”. Look, maybe they were happy and satisfied and that’s fine but they mostly didn’t LOOK happy, to me, anyway, and they still had all these body problems and finance problems, so who’s kidding who?
Hey Aqua! Don’t forget all the people who have died of cancer while in the cult.
And of course they’re not happy! They’re forced to give some kind of success story that they probably made up so they don’t have to do and pay again for that level.
Dead Man Run Down ? my first guess the name is a gimmick
to get money from public trained to give money for all occasions.
MMMMMM, I’ll wait for the Zombie Run down, sounds like more fun,
then show up at every org I was thrown out of.
Hey, I’m waiting for the Zombie R/D too, Jose! Would it not be a hoot to go into an org in full Zombie regalia requesting the Zombie rundown?! We could scare the shit out of them and have a good laugh too!
That’s so funny. Many, many years ago I was somewhat involved with an LGAT cult (much less destructive or totalitarian than Scn, but culty nonetheless), and I quit smoking during that time. I am happy to give credit where credit is due. Thanks, cult, for helping me quit smoking. My lungs thank you too.
Hey, if they helped you quit smoking, well, that’s a good thing! And it’s especially good that you’re around! Why? Well, a day without hgc10 is like a day without sunshine…
Thanks, OSD. It’s good to come around for some J&D and other fun activities with the fine denizens of this blog’s commenting section. I was lucky to have stopped the cigarette habit in my mid-20’s (though addiction is for a lifetime), when it I was young enough to have reversed the damage. It’s never too late to stop though. If you’re a cigarette smoker who wants to stop but can’t, remember that the only reason you smoke is because you’re addicted. All the other reasons and rationalizations are bullshit.
Hi hgc10,Thank you for your post.I smoked a pack a week or so from 17-30.Then I quit cold turkey.I think it was those menthal Kools,Ron what possessed you to pick those?I mean the taste was bad mint mixed with wet dog & chemicals.But I was very young and Ron was Ron! I always like your posts.Always Ann.
Unfortunately for me, my Mom started smoking at age 14. When I was born, she had a 3 pack a day habit. AND, she smoked INSIDE our home. There was a constant pall of carcinogenic smoke in the air. She died at 56. When I was 41, I started peeing blood. Being a gym rat, I just thought I had broken some blood cells.
My surgeon called me in and told me I had bladder cancer. His first question was: Do you now or have you ever smoked cigarettes? I told him no. He asked if I had been around it. I told him the story of my mom. He thinks that’s where my bladder cancer came from. My doctor told me it wasn’t a matter of if, but, when my cancer came back. He reckons I sucked in about half a pack a day from my Mom’s second hand smoke from just after birth to when I left for college. He didn’t think I’d make it to 50 as bladder cancer is a very aggressive type of cancer. However, being Scottish, I guess I’m just too cheap to die. I still have cancer cells in the bladder wall so I’m not out of the woods by a long shot. But being the cheap Scot that I am, I’ll beat this.
But, there’s no way I can leave this remarkable group of posters! So…you’re still stuck with me…
Hi OSD, May all that is good & True love you always!You and I are in the same club! I’m about to do my annual round of colon cancer test fun.Even though I had it 16+ Yrs ago they still look for rogue cells in my liver & lungs twice a year.I was told that all the smoking and in SO 6 in a room all smoking was crazy, may have caused the start up of cancers in me,along with all the other SO stuff.So if this blog is stuck with you,wait for me I’m right behind you.Scottish that we are,dying is not an option until we decide it is time! Fantastic dawns & twilight times to you & yours my friend.
I think better cure for staff “deadness” would be a few nights of good sleep and some square meals, but what do I know eh?
RMycroft don’t the CoS any ideas. They’ll call it the “Life Restoration RD” and charge $25,000 for a standard B&B experience.
🙂
You are sooooooo ethics bait with that comment, RM! Only Wogs need a so-called “good night’s sleep” and some so-called “square meals.” Have you forgotten that us Sea Ogres are tough sons-of-bitches? That we go further, work harder and do it all on 45 minutes of sleep a night? Yes, we are all dead and don’t even know it, but, that’s part of the charm of being a tough SOB Sea Ogre. Gosh, I sure do miss Tommy “The Weasel” Davis!
Once out, I realized why you couldn’t state your exact “confidential” win.
A. When you had it in session, in context, it seemed huge, when stated, it really sounded silly. Even you would be questioning why that was such a big deal.
B. 90% of the people hearing it would be shrugging their shoulders and saying, huh, I knew that. Carrot and stick both gone.
When you feel better or when you feel euphoria, you want to chase that high, hence the existence of drugs and drug addicts. Scientology purported to be able to give you the high without the drugs.
That’s why the success stories are so necessary and must be kept vague…you’ll get high again, I promise, that’s what the ones who are still in are reaching for IMHO.
Valerie, Yes, In early 70s It was spoken to be ‘High without drugs’ exactly.
I liken scientology processing to an addiction. When you are saturated with the ‘drug’ and it doesn’t get you high anymore, instead of more, you are trained to introvert and figure out what is wrong with yourself or someone will give you a severe reality adjustment or you get a DofP or C/S R-factor “you are PTS”, “you are committing continual overt acts”, “you have withholds” “you are not clear” and on and on…. and off one goes in their own universe doing them self in with invalidation and evaluation. Solo auditing helped somewhat because I could see the poor needle reactions when I did (thought) such so I learned to control it until the inval/eval became overwhelming… I’ve spoke to 2 psychiatrists who also study cults and they both agree – it is very similar to an addition for these guys in supposed Normal and above.
BAM!!! What a rundown! I actually know for certain that I am OSD! No ridges, no back flows and absolute certainty!!! I AM OSD! It’s been something like 10 trillion years since I knew who I really was! All the space opera as well as the Galactic Federation has been laid out before me! I was everywhere at once, and nowhere at the SAME FREAKIN’ TIME! Wow! I feel my body becoming transparent! I’m here, but, I’m not here. I’m there, but, I’m not there. I am, but I’m not.
I paddled out to catch some tasty waves and actually knew I was in the ocean! Then I became the ocean. Dolphins swam up to to me as I was being the ocean! They recognized me as one of them as well as being the ocean. It was almost too much to take! The cogs came fast and furious! Millions of them! But I found I could process millions of cogs in a nano second.
Whew! I’m exhausted but in a good way! I”d like to thank LRH for putting all this shit together! It’s almost like an acid trip, without the acid! My mind has been officially blown! I do have one request though: PLEASE don’t pee in me when I’m being the ocean…
LMAO! I thought that you were the Silver Surfer. I guess I need more El Con produced crap to see you correctly.
Funny you bring him up, John! At every Halloween party, I was ALWAYS the Silver Surfer. When I was going to San Diego State University, I rode all over campus on my skateboard as the Silver Surfer. You brought back some great memories, my friend! Thanks!
Hi OSD,Love your posts today.I loved The Silver Surfer the only comic I read.Walter is kicking himself because long before we met he had issue #1 of Silver Surfer & it surfed away while he was at U VA.My late favorite grandmom Puna was born in San Diego before the whole family of seven she was the oldest went to Hawaii in 1888 or 9. Surf on hero! Ann.
Must be my OT abilities OSD. I went back in time and saw you on your skateboard 😉
ROTFLMAO! Nice, John! Yep! Gotta be those OT abilities!
That’s some funny shit OSD.
Yeah, every so often, I get lucky…Thanks for the props!
Very funny.
Thanks, Mary! We’ve got to find something to laugh about every day. And with the Cult of the Sociopath Dwarf, we can get our laughs everyday! At their expense! All day long!
Nice one OSD! And remember …… don’t sweat the pee, it’s the chunks of Daveshit that will get you!
Laughter! Damn but you a fine way with words!
I agree that if they just didn’t make such outlandish claims, lie to steal your money and incarcerate people in a para-military mind set, you might actually never give them a second thought and some of their stuff might even be fun. However, that’s as much a delusion as the product they pitch. I do find it rather ridiculous that miscavige has never made a claim of personal success from using any of the tech as far as I know. Of all the scientology elite and their wins like the guy above it indicates nothing is stable about their prior states of very expensively gained existence.
Their Bridge is composed of instability. It actually is the Church of Complete Sillyness.
Or…The Church of a Major Asshole.
Or… The Church of Broken Dreams
Touche! Broken Dreams are what this cult IS all about.
Hi IYawnalot,You make a very good point.I have never seen a quote or success story from David on his wins from Ron/Daved’s Tech.Why would he not want to be a highly trained auditor? I have found that to be a huge red flag.Could it be money is David’s World? Always Ann.
David’s ruin is he never got his asthma handled. So on a deep level, a level he suppresses, he knows it doesn’t work.
Maybe this is his withold. Maybe this is why he’s a bit crazy. He sells products to others that he knows doesn’t work for himself.
It’s cognitive dissonance operating in his personality.
Hi Brian, Thank you for your post.David is so complicated & that is only the start it seems.Maybe the twisted bridge is a reflection of his own mind.Always Ann.
So it’s asthma is it?
Well, he certainty sucks the air out of everyone he meets plus their money, sanity and in some cases their life. Those long term SO members and adherents who subscribe to his every word are as this blog entry is titled “Dead Man Walking.”
It is no joke extremism in any form but in Scientology it is particularly heart breaking as their is zero evidence to support their “faith” or that they are expanding at all. Any fool can see their contraction and a Ponzi scheme in operation.
At least in the 60s Hubbard had his Saint Hill which was pretty much confined to a particular methodology but by the late 70s a particular type of hybrid hysteria grew, made lots of money and was hyped up into a lie factory of the likes that took us all by surprise. By the end of 80s miscavige had everything covered by lawyers and whatever scientology meant or intended to mean = zero products except delusion based on broken and unobtainable promises.
Your money is the only valuable thing to scientology, followed next by your time or devotion, someone has to clean the windows, answer the phones and wear silly uniforms.
Cult of Scamology members often fall back on; “It werks.” “Works” and “wins” cannot be defined using objective criteria. “OT” (being at cause over Matter, Energy, et al”) levels that produce nothing of the kind.
It boggles the mind how people can be SO stupid as to keep following that path after DECADES of irrefutable data showing it’s all a scam. When it comes down to it, these dupes [those that tout the tek] that keep the hype going when they know there is nothing to be had are now as unethical as El Con and the CoS execs who peddle the crap.
I guess I need the names and contact data of all those people so I can sell them something equally as useless for big bucks…
Hey John! I don’t know if you remember this, but, at the Orange County org back in the very early 80s, they made bumper stickers that said, “Scientology Works!” I’d like to see to see a more truthful bumper sticker: “The Only Thing That Works In Scientology Are Their Lawyers.” But, hey, that’s just me…
Good one, OSD. Put the old one up (Scientology Works) to the left of the new one (Its Lawyers) and/or this new one (Its Staff).
LOL! So true. I was at FLB during that time OSD. Wish I had seen that.
What about ‘Think For Yourself’. At least it could be true but Scientology Works …………not so much.
Hi Newcomer,How about this one Scientology Works On Your Wallet Forever.Ann.
Sorry, but I find this idea offensive:
LRH’s general notion was that some (or many) staff were irresponsible on their jobs because they were, as stated above, more or less dead as beings.
The gall and arrogance is truly something to behold. Here you have well-intentioned individuals who have dedicated their time (and in some cases, their lives) to YOUR organization. They do their best to follow YOUR screwball policy. They keep the doors open and they make YOU money. And, in return, YOU do not guarantee them a living wage, or safeguard their welfare. And the reason they are not meeting your expectations is because some (or many) are more or less DEAD???
GO TO HELL
“LRH’s general notion was that some (or many) staff were irresponsible on their jobs because they were, as stated above, more or less dead as beings.”
No one fills that bill better than El Con Blubbard and Dave The Terrible. As beings go, they both seem pretty darn dead to me. I do agree with Dave on one point, the beatings (of the cult) should continue until morale improves.
That would make them guilty of abusing a corpse.
Nothing improves morale like a 15 minute beating…
Hell won’t have him…
statpush, it is correctly called, “projection”. El Con Criminal was simply seeing himself in others.
statpush, the judgmental notion that people are ‘dead as beings’ is offensive to me too. This is a common thread that one may discover as he/she moves up The Bridge into the OT levels. After all, the OT levels handles beings who are ‘unconscious’ or think that they are dead, something else, etc. Viewing our fellows in society with this sort of contempt would be a very sorry state to live in, and not a very happy one either.
Since it is a high crime to be critical of clears and OTs, and if this hypnotic command of “you are a criminal if you look and come to your own conclusion” is agreed upon:
scientologists will be in a hypnotic trance, a trance that condemns their own ability to see things clearly.
THE RESULT…………………………………
Minds will be closed and wallets open.
And every time a person completes a level whole course rooms will smile and applaud, laying in the ego trance of being a big being, the cream of the cream.
Laying in the trance even deeper.
Then people lower on the bridge will look up to this hypnotized subject as someone special and further lay in the command for this poor deluded human being.
The bubble environment keeps the delusion firmly in place. And makes enemies of those outside the bubble.
Welcome to Scientology
All the years I was in Scn and most of it on staff at Class V org I got as far as ARC SW in 1979, continued on for several more years (on and off, left once and managed to go back for several more years on staff, what was I thinking). Did mostly staff studies but not a lot of that either. A lot of the data didn’t quite compute for me seemed things were off from what I was reading and what I was seeing. OTs didn’t act like I thought they should be acting and responding. Staff was not treated as the best more like the worse, people being yelled at and made to work horribly long hours. There was more lying and deceit in the church than I care to count. Don’t know how many Courts I was secretary on, because of my good admin.
Although I got as far as ARC SW in 1979, I had lots of correction lists regarding study and various other correction lists. And at one point had to redo everything up to ARC SW because my folders could not be found (by persistence they were found still in UK where I last was). I got to the point I did not want any auditing did not feel it was doing anything. I did finally receive a weeks worth of auditing at SFO after I left staff which was really good. But it was soon after that though I left the church for good. So it helped clear up some issues for sure.
I use to look up to OTs and SO but those last few years on staff totally changed my view point on that. With several renos at the newly purchased SNC, and the various handlings of staff and public, the lack of money for bills and staff, plus majority of the money going uplines, and the incompetence of some of the SO members was truly eye opening as well as frustrating to be a part of.
After leaving the org I started looking more and more online and found your blog and watched Going Clear which really brought it all home.
Mike, I was shocked when I found out you were declared as well as other execs (and those that are still missing-not in the lime light). It is sad that such a good philosophy could go so wrong and in such a bad direction. I am glad to have found your blog. Love reading it everyday and have notified a friend to check it out as well. Thanks.
Great Shadow, glad you are here.
Maybe I had some wins with auditing or study .. when I wrote that down in my words and sense .. it was not okayed by qual .. I had to renew my statement .. so I wrote bullshit as like “felt never as great than now” .. but realise one point .. I liked it to lie like an idiot .. it was real fun to say such things .. although it had nothing to to with me .. but I got an F/N . but it did not last very long ..
But finally I have to create my F/N myself .. I have to create my own ARC .. it is the only win which is to communicate per the basic tech of LRH .. can I do that ..
I remember a time when the auditor asked me “Do you have an ARCX with yourself” Flow 0 .. it made completely no sense to me .. how I could have an ARCX with myself .. many many many years later I grasped that .. Marty Rathbun helped me out with his blog .. I did lie for the benefit of others .. nice .. isn’t it? In scientology is a win or success really short term ideas ..
Shadow and Friend,
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. Mike is doing such a great service in having a forum where free speech (communication) is honored.
I consider it unquestionably courageous to speak up and share these stories. They are healing for us as writer and reader.
Here you will not be punished ? for being there and communicating. On the contrary. You will be healed ? by being here and communicating.
Any secret lurkers who are afraid. You are with friends. There are many who have gone through what you are going through. It’s OK to be you!
Warm Regards,
Brian
Hi Brian, Beautifully said post.Thank you always Ann.
Thanks Brian, it has taken me a bit of time to write much on the blogs. That remainder of fear that still lurked. I remember once done with staff and not going back into the org. I had a few visitors show up at the door and I did not want to speak with them so I would hide until they would go away. They have stopped coming around, thank goodness. But I do find myself when a stranger parks in front of my house to every now and again have that feeling of hiding. Those old haunts really are deep down of the times of seeing others stalked or being stalked. Hard to let go.
But so glad to be able to read these blogs and those of Tony Ortega without any feeling of guilt. I see more truth from the blogs than the whole time I was onlines, it was more wax enthusiasm if you could even get that out of people there. No one would even smile at you unless they were told to do it. That is why I liked working in CF, far off the public line. Except when others would come in and take things without asking.
I found people in my everyday life at work and play were a heck of a lot nicer and friendlier than lead to believe within the church. Which is such a sad thing, because its suppose to be a happy place.
Events kept getting smaller and smaller because staff had to pressure everyone to buy something or donate money for this thing or that. I stopped going to events years ago mostly because I was on the “Food Team” and we got to stay in back and play with the food. Which was great because we really got to create on the food trays, had some really great memories working with the food team. But events, they were hard to sit through.
The worst one was I think the first Golden Age video we had to watch like 3 or 4 times. I feel asleep through every one of them. Every time Dave would open his mouth I was sound asleep. Maybe for good reason. So stopped going to them. No loss there.
Anyway, thanks again Brian and Mike.
Hi Shadow, Very good to meet you & welcome.Your posts are insightful & give me a window to David’s World after I blew. I have to this day had the same instinct as you when a strange car stops in front of the house.I used to feel the same with the phone,but now with call answering that is a lot better.That would be one reason we put hi resolution cameras all around.I do not think anyone wants to bother with old me,but if it ever happens they will be memorialized on the loop! Best,Ann.
Happy you’re here and communicating Brian 🙂
“Wins”….just one of the magical ingredients used to conjure up vivid images used sell an individual a very expensive piece of Blue Sky.
L. Wrong quote: “Let’s sell these people a piece of blue sky.” Hey, at least he was up front about it…
Hi Mike,I can’t resist! Was the biggest win the OT8 shouted from the rooftops they had achieved,was that the big Cognition it was time to blow the OT Levels!Always Ann.
I was wondering that too, Ann B.
Yeah but what does it actually DO? And what specifically was the win?
Is it entheta or forbidden in the church to specify anything?
It consumes your time while you go about reinforcing your belief that it is worth it to exchange your hard earned dollars for another round of pure Daveshit.
And you get a cert to place on a wall somewhere to certify that you are.
Of course this is all predicated on the fact that you only have happy thoughts, are always tone 40 or higher and have no kids or family in the See Ogre. Oh yea, and you have to have a decent cock and some money!
Yo Dave,
We are counting on you to keep the lights (red ones) on good buddy.
Cognitive Dissonance Tech
Its most likely forbidden as the ‘church’ wouldn’t want to ‘invalidate’ someone else’s win. At least that’s the excuse I imagine them using…
Correct , you are forbidden in like 99% of the time from giving the exact win. This is so you can have “your own cognition.” Which is whatever you feel like makes it better. LoL
The “win” is usually another dose of euphoria which seems like the biggest, bestest in the moment.
Until, of course, it goes away. Maybe the electrical current that’s passed through the person body gives them a rush or something. But, eventually, it all goes away…
Yes Amamax. El Con Criminal made it an ethics offense for parishioners to discuss particulars. Because … the “tek” has no tech”. He even made up a HUGE lie that discussing the material found in the “OT levels” would cause people to sicken and die if they weren’t ready for it. Some idiots still believe this crap.
Iagree 100% John