Well, as I am enjoying the good life in Colorado, this seemed appropriate.
The best summation of these sort of announcements is “These guys must be high.”
There are cannabis stores everywhere now in Colorado. And the world keeps turning. Haven’t seen any apparent negative effects on the people or society at all.
But if you ask anyone who lives here (especially ones with children) they will tell you how much of a boon it is to life in Colorado. The tax revenues have made Colorado schools some of the best in the nation with better teacher/student ratios, more equipment like computers, sports equipment etc etc
Doesn’t it seems better to channel some of the revenues for marijuana use to worthwhile purposes rather than drug dealers?
I am not getting into a debate about the merits of using marijuana. Just the practicalities of controlling and making use of something that is going to happen no matter what.
And the almost quaint attitude of scientology about it. Scientology is becoming a Flat Earth Society — carrying on with their beliefs not matter the evidence to the contrary.
As recently disclosed in the Huffington Post from an article in Harpers, John Ehrlicman is quoted as saying the Nixon Administration and its war on drugs was racially motivated.
“We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” Ehrlichman reportedly said.
This dovetails perfectly with Nixon’s racist “southern strategy” and his personal lust for power – consequences be damned. This is why the nation’s prisons and cemetaries are full of people who shouldn’t be there.
Come to think of it, Nixon and Miscavige share a lot of the same qualities. Power – consequences be damned.
Resident of Denver here. Pot has always been here. I would smell it when college kids were walking past my house occasionally and every once in a while I would smell it on the ski lift when someone in front of me was lighting up. Before legalization you could smell pot coming from a house, now the people are smoking pot on the porch. It is still very low key though and I can’t say I encounter it more than I used to.
I heard someone the other day saying that crime here is “way up” because people are addicted to pot and breaking into people’s houses. The idea is laughable. I’m certain that everything that person knew about drug culture came from watching reruns of “Walker Texas Ranger.” High quality pot has always been super easy to get here, even before legalization.
I am for legalization of all drugs. It takes out the criminal elements connected with drug use.
Ditto. End the prohibition. Stop funding narco terrorists, organized crime, and dirty cops/politicians. Increase education and addiction treatment. Laws don’t stop folks with a predilection for self destructive behaviors.
According to recent studies, marijuana has the following adverse effects :
– Exposure during development can cause permanent adverse changes in the brain
– It is lowering IQ
– It is accelerating the loss of nerve cells
– For car drivers, marijuana significantly impairs judgment, motor coordination, and reaction time.
– Two large European studies found that drivers with THC in their blood were roughly twice as likely to be culpable for a fatal accident than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol.
Moreover If you are seeking spiritual improvement, a drug or any substance that is lowering consciousness is not welcome. That is chemical slavery.
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/how-does-marijuana-use-affect-your-brain-body
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/does-marijuana-use-affect-driving
Which is why I don’t smoke pot. But lots of people do, whether there’s prohibition or not. As Mike wrote, “Just the practicalities of controlling and making use of something that is going to happen no matter what.”
Mike,
Not sure, it’s been a few years but I think you have a view of the Great Divide (Rocky Mountains).
Soooo…Mike me boy! How you doin’ with the blizzard? Cold enough for ya? It’s a big one! I’m trusting your hunkerin’ down with the family. What, from 70 degrees yesterday to a blizzard today? Welcome to the West!
Less snow where we are than in Denver. But still snowed all day and it’s a lot of fun for us Florida peeps.
Your boys must be having an incredible time! Can you give them a hug from all of their Aunts and Uncles here? They have a lot of them!
Colorado will stay with POT for the tax money
other States will follow IMHO
Other states have and will continue to do so.
Have to interject about the pot issue. As a Coloradoan, I know it has ruined this state. Why? Because seemingly 1 billion people moved here for that reason. The result is unaffordable skyrocketing rent (nearing San Francisco ridiculousness ) and homelessness, epic and constant traffic, environmental impacts like excessively strained water demand in an arid state, mind-blowing crowds packing and trampling formerly beautiful mountain areas (like all of them). Hey I voted no on the issue, and now everyone I know who vote yes regrets it, a lot
That will change once everywhere is legal in the USA and there is no reason to move
Amen.
This is a side effect, not something directly caused by MJ itself. It’s a population problem that will change when the rest of the country catches up. The vast majority of people that moved there are definitely medicinal users and they were desperate for options.
I like [email protected]. Some how a .og suits them …
og! uk! is a very good descriptor for this outfit
Dear Scn911 what you say it’s true,
BUT in a scnist everyday life (not to mention staff members or SOM) there is more about it.
In Scn If you are on course OR in session you cannot take any drugs in the previous hours/days before your session/study time, even aspirine for a migraine. This is because in the Hubbard fantasy world migraine can indicate out-int or a barrier to study, so if you take aspirine you could suppress this “precious” indicators. And given the fact that if you are a scnist you are supposed to be ALWAYS in session or on course so the fact is that – apart from very serious health conditions when you have to have the C/S approval to take your medications – you cannot take drugs.
As someone who has actual migraines regularly since I’m a small child :
If an aspirin or tylenol works on it – and if you can hold a coherent conversation while it’s happening to you – it’s not a migraine. Triptans will work, sometimes, if you’re lucky.
It makes me laugh when I see those aspirin/tylenol/advil ads people who supposedly have “migraines”. They sure don’t look anything like I do when it happens to me.
Hubbard took drugs and plenty of them. Strange man… “Do as I say but not as I do. Yet, you’ve all got my case so you’ve all got to have the same auditing.”
Hubbard didn’t want his followers to have the profound spiritual experiences he had while on drugs. People who have those experiences often don’t need his philosophy. Not endorsing drugs, just sayin’. He was not one to welcome competition from any source.
That sounds about right, I’ve often wondered why he was so against SO members having used LSD in the past.
Funny, one of the last chains I threw off after I left the “church” was taking a damned Advil every once in a while. I was like, “what the fuck did I endure all that crap for???” Jeez, if I wake up with a sore neck, just take a flippin’ Advil instead of being in a foul mood all day! All my life, it would be the end of the world taking a simple analgesic.
The simple pleasures of having dumped that bleedin’ cult like the bad habit it was.
“Scientology is becoming a flat Earth society” that’s a good one Mike! Have a good time in the mountains with your family.
According to Einstein space-time is curved and not flat. His theories are so deep scientists are still proving them them today.
Scientology does think flat earth and flat universe. Didn’t Xenu bring billions of his enemies on one way tickets across the universe in DC-8 lookalikes? I don’t think we will need to prove whether that is true.
The OED gives a one word noun definition of Einstein as “Genius”. I doubt you could use that about LRH but his successor well fits the bill for “antigenius”.
Don’t inhale Mike.
Since they reduced drugs by, what was it 80% in Columbia, Colorado should be a piece of cake. We just need to contribute to TWTH campaign so they can afford to print the booklets. Come on guys, get on board!
“Prevent Drug Use in London.” Simple: Give Scamology all your money so people can’t afford to buy drugs.
You say that in jest, but i wouldn’t be surprised if that was in fact a better strategy than what they actually do. Not that i propose anyone fund a study to find out, because, why bother.
jmsr
In 1973,I was a guy with long hairs of 20 years old. And of course, I smoked pot, and took LSD. On an LSD trip I went out of my body, couldn’t believe it. It was a very incredible state. The world was immensly beautifull. I realized I was a spiritual being under LSD. After I wanted to achieve stability. Remain in the state of exteriorization, aside this state was also of no ego. The barrier between me and the world which was a too present self was gone. I couldn’t believe it and it was sort of coming back I was at the door of freedom. I was aware of being a spritual being. When I was returning to homo sapiens I felt I couldn’t even feel the good feeling of life. I smoked more marijuana and took few more acid. To see that when I was reaching for the state I was loosing it. The simple fact to think it was a state put me on the wrong side of the wall.
One day, I was sitting at a cafe, I spoke with a girl probably with the intention to lay her down. She was nice but not to be seduced, she left forgetting a book on the table : “Dianetics evolution of a science”. I read the full book. When I finished reading I had the feeling something was very true for me. I had read much eastern philosophy, but there was there a concept I felt was incredible explaining the barrier to the state I wanted to reach : the reactive mind. Nobody ever spoke to me of scientology. I read this book.
It took some monthes until I finally arrived to an org and sat down to do TR0. After a little while I saw the face of my twin going away. I started to see the back of my head. I was out of my body. I raised my hand to say to the supervisor what happened to me. She was amazed a new student going ext on TR0 ! But I explained her that it was maybe the effect of drugs. I found myself in qual.
I told my story to the guy who interviewed me. He was a class VIII auditor I learned later.
I was amazed at the fact that he was so much understanding something I have tried to explain so many time to anyone I spoke to !
He explained me the phenomena of release, and the possibility to rehab a release. He told me of the chimical release, and why drug release would barr the road to actual release. And that pictures connected with trips had to be audited. Later I read also from Hubbard that drug after having put you high would finally destroy your feeling, the inner feeling of living. Sadly it was true for me. I was despaired not to feel some feeling I had before I took drugs.
Knowing that, how could I think that its a good idea to smoke cannabis? Maybe its only true for me, maybe for others.
And I will tell you another thing. It was around 1985, I was in Flag. And I did my first session of solo not’s. It went well, by the book. Then I quite! I’m not a worker. I went to the beach… And there I was suddenly completly key in. I couldnt say what or why, but I had a huge feeling of anxiety. I wanted to go to say to the Dof P that I was fucked up and I realized that I just had to sit and give a session. And I did. I gave the session. All went fine. I couldn’t even remember what was key in.
I sat at the Sand Castle. Suddenly I realized that I was behind my head, that the espace was huge. And there was no longer any ego… Without notice I had reached the state I went to scientology for. The world was infinitly beautifull. And the state was stable, I could live with it.
To continue auditing didn’t even end the state. Only later on, some Miscavige brand of tech.
You may believe I am sheeple. No I never was. This is why I prized the tech of scientology, and I am for Miscavige total obliteration!
Yep!
marijuana and auditing looks like the same .. means, if you take marijuana you get into some delusion .. if you take auditing you do the same ..
Marijuana is cheaper and safer. Lol
+1! Yep! I sure is!
I meant, ‘It’ sure is. But, in a sense, I really am cheaper and safer!
That was not my experience of marijuana or of Scientology auditing.
For me the two were completely different experiences. For me, marijuana was delusion – happy delusion, peaceful pleasant delusion, but delusion.
Something like, “Everything is beautiful, there’s no pain, there’s no grief or anger, everything is great”, i.e., pleasant but brief delusion.
Auditing for me was looking at what was there – as it had occurred, when it had occurred, the good, the bad and the ugly, and having it be – what’s the word – OK.
There I was, looking at something, exactly as it was, some of it pretty awful, and it was OK.
It was very different for me from the delusional, if pleasant and very brief, MJ experiences.
I’m not being judgemental because I think that MJ has its medicinal and recreational uses as does alcohol provided that under the influence one does not drive or operate heavy equipment.
I agree.
Well, I’m hardly a supporter of anything scn, but I’m quite averse to the whole drug thing in general. The number of drug deaths in the US from prescription drugs alone is epidemic, though you’ve got to dig for the information. I’ve done without them for decades…barring some medication for intense pain, never more than 2 days. But if someone is dying from cancer and wants to use marijuana…which does not make anyone worse…I’m sure not about to stand in their way. Scios fixed ideas about everything do nothing but cause problems for them. They truly do not live in the same world as the rest of us do.
Beautifully said, Peter.
I vacationed in Colorado last fall and enjoyed the legal marijuana that was available there. But don’t eat too many of the marijuana cookies. I ate one, didn’t feel much, had another, then ate some more bcoz I was hungry. Then the cookies all kicked in at once and I had the only bad trip of my life.
I reasoned while the bad trip was going on that if eating too many cookies could kill you then there’d be a warning on the bag, so I probably wouldn’t die.
I’m waiting for COB to see the potential income from this. Soon, it will be part of the Purif…..recently discovered LRH ‘research’ will state the medicinal benefits of marijuana and Scilons will be gulping down pills of it along with their Niacin.
Regs will be demanding everyone redo their Purif to include marijuana pills (marked up 500% of course because they will be ‘more idealier’ marijuana pills)
Hey…..if it mellows them out, I’m all for it!
But imagine the past lives reports!
My experience is that marijuana blows lots and lots of charge
marijuana will never blow any form of charge .. you add only new charge .. it is because you release charge for nothing .. and later it comes back .. always .. for sure .. but it is like auditing .. you release some charge .. and another charge comes in .. which is called as the higher step you would need ..
Friend, you are correct when you say MJ will never blow any charge. Neither will an auditing session. The only thing that “blows charge” is discriminating between what is true and what is not true. That requires your analytical faculties. From my experience MJ may heighten those faculties or maybe it only heightens your appreciation of them but either way it can be a lot of fun and you can have cognitions galore just like a scientologist!
Very interesting sue is still in. I also am a medical m.j. patient.i’m totally legit. I’ve educated myself (with the help of my prescribing dr. And the club where i buy). It is great for pain and many other ailments. I’ve had several surgeries in the last 10 years. I go home with the pain pills that are prescribed, but after a day i use pot instead. I’m not for legalizing pot except if they do, it would drive scn. Crazy. Pot works good for having more realizationsand is much cheaper than scn.
Roger from Switzerland mentions it also. In Mission Earth, LRH tells what he thinks the solution is – decriminalize and ignore. Parents, if you are doing things right AND your kid is “right”, he/she won’t do drugs, regardless of legal status. Likewise, if your kid is hellbent on taking drugs, it probably doesn’t matter what you do short of locking the kid up in the house. How do I know? Trust me.
And of course, with legalization we can also divert the wads upon wads of money we currently spend on breaking down doors of innocent people in no-knock raids, shooting dogs, and occasionally their owners, to more useful and productive purposes.
Amen!
The drug war is a complete and utter failure and has caused more harm than good. We will *never* stop drug use, that is the bottom line. From the minute human beings figured out they could enjoy altered states, they have indulged. We will never be able to end that behavior. If we are serious about saving lives, and that’s what everybody screams about, we need to change to a harm reduction model, decriminalize all of it, tax it and regulate it.
As for all out there with that knee jerk “oh, but think of the children” response I want you to think about this. Drug dealers don’t card…you can’t even buy matches and lighters (let alone beer/wine/liqueur) today w/out an id to prove you are 18 in most places.
The evidence that the drug war is failure is overwhelming. We need to take the lead and change tactics if we really give a damn about saving people.
To read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-america-lost-the-war-on-drugs-20110324
Frodis, recovering junkie, speaking from experience
What gets me is reading Scn-ists posts on FB (yes, I have a few friends who are is, though I do have a moratorium – no new Scn-ists), posting something about some study showing evidence of irreparable harm from smoking hoo-haa. And here I thought that going OT makes you such a logical, even faultless, perfect thinker.
Aren’t cause-and-effect, start-change-stop, flows, etc. all among the basic-basics of Scn? But here are OT’s who apparently think that the drug prohibition doesn’t have consequences (of course, sadly, the elimination of drug use is not and never will be one of them)? While they all seem to be so keenly aware of Grand Gov’t Conspiracies of oppression, none of them seem to notice the police state that has evolved out of the drug war. Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils, and drug legalization to me, has conclusively proven to be just that.
Smoking pot messes up your whole track which means you can’t recall the things that happened to you in past lives, at least you can’t recall them with any workable degree of accuracy in chronological order. Plus you can’t distinguish between an ACTUAL event from a trillion years ago and a made-up one produced by your imagination! It’s terribly discombobulating apparently. I wouldn’t know personally as I have little to zero interest in the past. I am happy to report I NEVER smoke pot. That is to say, not before five or six in the PM.
“NEVER” implies definiteness. So, which is it — five or six? Tell the truth. NEVER before five (or six)? NEVER wake and bake?
Some years ago I was for 4 days in heavy pain, couldn’t sleep any more and my respirations channels were nearly closed and I was in panic but tried to handle it with Scientology nonsense. finally I went to the doctor, he couldn’t believe I took so long to see him…He gave me the appropiate drugs and 3 hours later I was doing fine and 1 day later healthy again. I just asked myself why I wasted 4 days in pain…..
Ummmmm….because you were still in at the time?
As most people know, I’m a big fan of cannabis. A doctor (brain specialist) friend of mine is sick and tired of being a doctor. He may front the money to set up a cannabis shop. Both my wife and I will run it.
This so called War on Drugs has been a dismal failure. We blow, what, $80 billion dollars on this so-called war? A year? Yep, that’s gotta be helpful.
Look, cannabis is what I call a friendly drug. No one has died of a cannabis overdose. I doubt anyone, after smoking some, ever beat up their wife. Back the the 70s, in Texas, people were jailed because of stems and seeds. That’s just nuts! But…that’s Texas.
Mike was right on the money! The taxes the Pot Barons pay, is going to Denver schools as well as others. Currently, they have the best schools pot money can buy!
We’re expecting California to follow suit this November.
Remember the slogan of the lottery when it first came out: Our Schools Win Too! Well, here’s another slogan: With Cannabis, Our Schools Win Too!
Pot has many medicinal aspects to it too.
Ok, I’m done. Say what you will. I’m going to take a hit………
I may come to visit you OSD! Just let me know if you open that shop!
Chee, my friend, you WILL BE the first one I contact!
I don’t partake, but I’ll visit anyway lol
Great rant OSD. Can I come visit? Am I too old to learn to surf? 🙂
This is hilarious. You guys are hilarious. I’m enjoying this banter about pot smoking. I’ve never smoked it and I don’t think I ever will. However, having said that I’m not opposed to its benefits.
If California legalises pot, it will be such a thorn in the side of the wee dwarf and the scios. Unfortunately, IAS fundraising will go through the roof.
Too old to learn to surf? Depends. A couple of decades ago, we two to 80 year old paddling out. To be sure, it was small waves, but, that doesn’t matter. They were both out there.
So…frodis73, it’s never too late!
This is what you get when I haven’t finished my first cup of coffee.
It should have read: “…we had two 80 year olds paddling out. Hey, my eyes are even focused yet!
Sweet! At 43 I should be fine. I love to swim, so I’m sure that helps. Now I just need to get myself back to CA before I die. 🙂
The ONLY reason $cientologists are not flat earthers is because that simply wasn’t the model Hubbard handed them. That is literally the only reason.
Instead what is it they have? Wow, I’m forgetting and it’s only been thirty years haha.
Thirteen planets, implant stations on Mars, DC8’s and volcanoes.
Oh, and speaking of volcanos, heads up;
Oh no Ross and Carrie part three.
http://ohnopodcast.com
Ross was mystified as to why there were volcano images absolutely everywhere but no volcanos were mentioned in any of the courses he took.
Also, Ross is wondering why there is an observation hole in the course roomvideo screen
And other goodies that I won’t spoil for you.
Have a wonderful vacation Mike!
I think the Fatman’s 73 Trillion years (or WTF it was) vs. the scientifically accepted estimate of 13-14 Billion years as the age of the universe is pretty much equivalent to saying Earth is flat. It is scientific idiocy of the same (if inverse) order.
Then there was that number Hubbard wrote down as how long ago some incident occurred, the handwritten one they showed at some stupid event, that was equivalent to some quadrillions of years I think. Science my ass.
The guy was a blowhard story teller who pulled “facts” out of his ass.
LRH Talks in Mission Earth about that the best way to make money, is to make drugs illegal as then you can ask any price for it and make big profit.He talks also about that the people that make the profit are also those who care mostly about that they stay illegal.
I used to tell that to Scientologists but no one was able to understand it. The only response was a a blank stare and a tilt in their mind.
LOL
Mike,
The permitting of such vices as MJ use into society appear to be harmless to the short sighted. But it is a slow and long slippery slope and the long term effects have to be considered to know the real effects.. It works to increasingly degenerate society over extended periods of time.
It is not a trait of noble character to use drugs or alcohol. The use or practice of vices cultivates poor character and poor judgement and degenerative hedonistic lifestyle. People turn to drugs, tobacco and alcohol and other vices for various reasons, But they are usually to suppress some form of emotional or psychological disorder or lack, These are the make up or contents of case, as we know it in scn.
Like LRH said in (I think Dianetics 55) (in my words) that the abuse or misuse of sex will cause problems of such magnitude in older yrs, that the price will be so great, that no one will be willing to pay for it. He means mental illness.
The practice of any vice (any practice that is in breach of the laws of nature for optimum survival is the same.
The long term cost to society of the use of MJ ( especially the legalization of it) will be much more than society will be willing to pay. One bad thing leads to another bad thing and often worse bad things.
(This is a complex subject. There are many factors at work in degenerating society. More than can be discussed and explained here. )
Hubbard deals with this problem quite succinctly in his write up on “the role of women in society” in Science of Survival.
One quote: A society which looks down upon this mission and in which women are taught anything but the management of family, the care of men and the creation of the next generation, is a society on it’s way out.
End of quote.
That means armegeddon or the apocalypse. It is the end of civilization. It is happening in slow motion.
Axiom 138: Aberration is the degree of residual plus or minus randomity accumulated by compelling, inhibiting, or unwarranted assisting of efforts on the part of other organisms or the (material) universe.
Aberration is caused by what is done to the individual, not what the individual does, plus his self determination about what has been done to him.
The present problem of terrorism is the the result of failed parenting, combined with a non peace promoting non bonafide religion, and other factors. . All of societies problems are due to failed parenting in one way or another. We are all only as good as we have been bred and brought up. If you have a problem with the product, you have to check with the factory for the cause of the problem. The products of failed parenting deteriorate society in to the apocalypse.
Properly brought up kid does not have emotional disorders or psychological disorders or become psychotic or a problem to society.
A properly brought up kid has no need or desire for mind altering substances or vices.
Proverbs 22:6New King James Version (NKJV)
6
Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.
Dio
I assume based on your logic, you also believe alcohol and tobacco should be illegal?
Mike, do your remember those people “The Flat Earth Society”? You really brought back some memories for me. I remember them because the world is not flat! But who wants to debate? 🙂 🙂 🙂 Best to you as always.
Is the proper way to bring up children separating them from their families? Working them extremely long hours for pennies? Putting them in what amounts to prison cells for long periods of time, forcing them to do disgusting and menial tasks, depriving them of any significant education? Dio, methinks you have bitten the poisoned apple and swallowed it whole! LOL
Alcohol is infinitely more damaging than weed. Based on my own observations of friends, pot smokers were never violent or aggressive. I often saw booze, lead to aggression, anger and lack of self control.
That’s what I was thinking Mike!
Thank You!
I’ve always just been an observer for my own interests and study, but I swear I’ve seen pictures (and other references) of scientologists smoking cigarettes. Let’s not even mention scientologyists drinking alcohol but even if we just focus on tobacco what guidelines allow for them to class drugs?
I’ve always heard that quitting smoking is more difficult than quitting heroine.
For the record I’m a formal cigarette smoker. I managed to quit without sweating my ass off and destroying(via niacin) my liver as part of some NicoNon program.
Oh and…Enjoy the break Mike. I appreciate you allowing me to join in the conversation as an outsider now and then.
*Former not formal…d’oh
Marijuana causes new clusters to form, so I say with all do respect, is it really helping future generations on Earth in any real way? The only people it is really helping is the Church of Scientology because it means that in the future some people’s Drug Rundowns and OT IV will be 1, 2 or as many as 3 intensives more, PLUS Sec. Checks. 🙂
“Marijuana causes new clusters to form”
I don’t know if you’re joking, Lawrence but on the chance you’re serious I wish to take you to task on that assertion. You made the assertion so it is, in my opinion, your obligation to support it. You should be able to explain what a “cluster” is. Please do. You should be able to explain how marijuana causes ‘clusters’ to form. Please do. And you should be able to explain what you mean by the word “form”. Please do. That’s at least three things you have to know in order to make that statement. Please share that knowledge. You owe an explanation unless of course you’re kidding.
As for helping future generations, I say let us give them a legacy where high value is placed on critical thinking skills. Such value doesn’t prevail today as evidenced by the cheering crowds sucking up the non-stop malarky of politicians (especially in an election year).
You are not worth it. 🙂
Gee whizz Lawrence, were it not for the smiley face I’d almost think you didn’t like me.
Now, THAT is funny Lawrence! Comedic post of the day!
Damn Dio, you should start your own religion! You’d be good at it. Here’s a tip – Precious Bodily Fluids.
Are you for real or are you a poe?
What is a poe?
You want to talk harmful, Dio? Alcohol and tobacco and infinity more harmful than cannabis. It’s not even close!
Dio, your thought process is so scattered and the conclusions you reach are so ridiculous, that I thought in you were making a joke related to how silly some of Hubbard’s teachings actually were. You have so many absurd statements contained in your post it would be useless to respond to most of them, the basic beliefs are faulty.
So I will choose only one of your allegations, the one regarding women and their role in society, because it personally offends me. In societies where women are afforded equal rights and status as men; given equal access to education, opportunities and jobs, those societies have proven to be the most fully functional and are considered the best places to live, work, and raise children. In societies where woman are oppressed and not allowed to fully participate, the populace as a whole is disfunctional and the quality of life suffers.
Most of the western civilizations, foe example, the U.S., Canada, Australia, Western Europe (France, Spain, Sweden, etc.) have laws regarding equality, and are among the places considered the most desirable to live. Repressed societies, where woman are strictly segregated and denied equal rights are considered among the worst societies in which to live, for instance there is no rush of people wanting to immigrate to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc., while there is a huge list of people waiting to get into the U.S. to live. There is a huge body of research from many government and private sector organizations that back up what I’ve written here. Please read for yourself any of the multitude of studies over many years that have come to this conclusion.
I would provide links, but it is evident by your post that you are so unenlightened that you don’t really have the ability of free thought; your thoughts are firmly fixed already, and it’s a shame.
Dio, I’m dying to know what is the cause of “bad parenting”? It looks like you’ve narrowed the present world crisis down to that single problem. I propose we superior types get together and wage a loud, finger-shaking DISAPPROVAL CAMPAIGN!
Edwin Markham Poet, and philosopher: April 23, 1852 – March 7, 1940 (aged 87)
said the same thing as LRH did, in the: “Role of Women in Society” .but in one succinct sentence.
In vain we build a world if at first we don’t build the man.
Building the man (looking after children) in the context that Edwin Markham and LRH meant can only occur in a home that LRH was referring to in his article: “Role of Women in Society”.
The truth is not determined by authority, opinion, beliefs, or by who wins an argument.
The truth is the truth.
The truth does not give a damn what you think any more than the law of gravity does not give a damn what you think of it, or that you do not believe in the law of gravity.
The value of a datum is only determined by how many problems it solves and how well it solves them for the greatest number of dynamics.
In other words the value of a datum is only determined by how well it works. Not by beliefs, opinions or by wins an argument.
Or who can blow the most hot air.
Or by those who get their counsel from snakes.
The truth is that which solves the great number of problems, for the greatest number of dynamics.
The truth is nothing more than the most right answer to any problem.
The truth is that which is in most alignment with natural law.
That which is in most alignment with natural law will work the best.
Failure is feedback from the universe that something was not in alignment with natural law, the laws of the universe, the laws of right and wrong.
The apocalypse is happening now in slow motion and speeding up.
The reason civilization is self destructing (failing) is because something is not in alignment with natural law.
Something was not in alignment with what is required for the maintenance of a civil society.
The answers are embedded in LRHs article on “The Role Of Women in Society”
and in Edwin Markham’s words.
“In vain we build a world if at first we don’t build the man.”
In order to determine the value of the above: You have to think in terms of cause and effect; look at the world, look at society, look at the family unit, and ask yourself if that is true or not? Is that what what is happening in society? Is that is what is causing the destruction of civilization?
If anyone disagrees with what I said, please explain why?.
Why do you think that civilization is on it’s way out.
Dio
Matthew 12:34-37King James Version (KJV)
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of evil and ignorance in the heart, the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Dio, you posted:
“… The truth is not determined by authority, opinion, beliefs, or by who wins an argument. The truth is the truth.”
So, who made you the person who decides what is the truth?
Apparently you feel your opinion is worth more than hundreds of studies that carefully gauged many aspects of societies functionality and health.
You also said: “… If anyone disagrees with what I said, please explain why?”
I have already cited the important studies by both governmental and independent organizations including the United Nations and World Health Organization that link equality for men and women to prosperity and peacefulness of nations. There are many sources that have provided comprehensive information from meticulous studies compiled over the course of years, and detailed reports that prove this very fact. There is a huge body of information out there, if you look you will find it.
Here are a few quotes from some of them:
“…The connection between women’s human rights, gender equality, socioeconomic development and peace is increasingly apparent.”
“…gender equality is critical to the development and peace of every nation.”
“…When women thrive, all of society benefits, and succeeding generations are given a better start in life.”
“… Those societies which have the highest equality between men and women are rated as the most desirable to live and are among the most peaceful nations, these societies function well. The opposite conditions exist in those societies that have the least gender equality.”
Feel free to peruse the reports at the United Nations Development site:
http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/gender-inequality-index-gii
This body of information shows how poverty in society is linked to denying women equal rights. It makes it very clear that where women are afforded equal rights, and actively participate in all aspects of society, the whole of society benefits.
Here is a statement from the Global Issues organization:
http://www.globalissues.org/article/166/womens-rights
“Gender equality furthers the cause of child survival and development for all of society, so the importance of women’s rights and gender equality should not be underestimated.”
As in the above, many studies have come to the conclusion that when women are afforded equal human rights, to live, work, have access to education, and fully participate in society, that this has a positive effect on children and on building and improving societies as a whole.
So, Dio, let’s look again at the quote you posted from L. Ron Hubbard’s “Science of Survival” on “the role of women in society” which states:
Quote: “… A society in which women are taught anything but the management of family, the care of men and the creation of the next generation, is a society on it’s way out.”
This statement has been quite effectively proven to be totally inaccurate, and in fact the exact opposite has been shown to be true.
Nothing that a pseudo-scientist who made unsubstantiated claims and discriminatory remarks about women in the 1950’s had to say about women’s “place in society” is going to have more weight or importance or be taken more seriously than the multitude of studies done over the course of many years by accredited and respected organizations.
Take that Hubbard “women should be taught nothing more than how to take care of men and children” garbage and put it where it belongs. Thank you.
– T.J.
Dio, your language consists of one quote after another. Do you have any original thoughts or observations of your own?
Dio, Can you actually think?
A philosophy is a system of understanding Reality and Human Life, and how to live a Human Life in Reality. Scientology does not come close to an understanding of Reality or Human Life. As a result people, such as Lisa McPherson have suffered and died. And others, such as Mike, have suffered and had to walk away.
Reality is Real and no sacred text can ever take precedence over it. Not even Atlas Shrugged.
Dio,
I read with interest what you wrote. In theory, I agree with you that the degeneration of society is due to failed parenting, no matter how far back the bad parenting goes, which can of course be many generations. But in practice, I disagree with keeping MJ use illegal for recreational use. My opinion is based on personal anecdotal experience.
When I turned 15 I was granted permission to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes AT HOME. Not at friends’s homes or any other place where it would freak people out but at home I could drink anything alcoholic and I could light up a smoke.
This had the effect on me of cancelling about 90% of the fun and glamour of doing these things. I didn’t like the taste of booze and the fact that I could have it at home made going out to get it illegally a kind of chore. Instead, I went out and usually didn’t drink but drove everyone. My friends tolerated this non-drinking of mine because I was useful. Smoking was another matter; I started sneaking cigarettes at 14 and when the permission came at 15 I was already hooked on nicotine and spent 20 years trying to quit.
The point to this story is that I believe that whatever is forbidden becomes injected with instant glamour and desirability.
I say legalize MJ and allow young teens to drink, smoke cigarettes and MJ at home. Educate them, let them try these things at home to satisfy their curiosity, to forestall the craving for what is forbidden and teach them to imbibe these substances responsibly AND by not forbidding them, show them that they can, if they want to, NOT drink, NOT smoke, NOT use MJ.
What can I say; it worked for me. This is not to say it will work on every kid, but I believe it has a high degree of workabil with children and young teens, which is when these habits are formed.
PS: I need to add that I don’t smoke pot either or do any other drugs. I tried it and some other stuff but didn’t really like it, although back in the day one was expected to .
The fact that at the age of 15 I was trusted and treated like an adult with regard to drinking and smoking cigarettes made a very big and positive impression on me. The fact that I was granted this permission created a stable datum I carried for life with regard to my own ability to make decisions about my own body. My judgement was trusted by my parent so I learned to trust myself about what to do or not do with my own body.
So, Dio, I agree with you about good parenting, but its possible that we differ on the definition of what “good” parenting actually is, and its also possible that full agreement cannot even be possible because what would be good parenting for one child would not be good for another.
You remind me that my parents – both heavy smokers – noted that many of my school chums in a very Italian neighbourhood, smoked regularly. They figured I’d be curious. I was. So they put cigarettes out on the table and said I could smoke as much as I wished…in the house. So I took them at their word and lit up.
It’s now over 70 years later and I’ve still not smoked another cigarette! LOL
Great story, Peter. You were smart! My first cigarette smoke was so disgusting i almost puked.
I made myself keep smoking because there was this girl I admired, a neighbor of mine at the time, who was 16, a dead ringer for Elizabeth Taylor. I thought she was so cool and incredibly pretty, which she was. She smoked, which I thought was shocking. Both she and her younger 14 year old sister smoked and gave me cigarettes and I forced myself to keep smoking because for a brief time I wanted to BE this girl., whose name was Mary Kay Collins. Then some months passed and I didn’t want to be Mary Kay anymore, there was someone else I wanted to be (at that age, there was always someone I wanted to be, with the exception of myself) but by that time I was hooked on the nicotine.
Look, is it possible to make up a story as stupid as this? I have a theory that one of the main reasons people lie is because the truth is so embarrassingly dumb. 🙂
Many plants and mushrooms have been used to gain spiritual insights over the years. The Vedic hymns for instance were written under the influence of a plant-derived drug called “soma”. Marijuana can be helpful in this regard too, though in my experience it seems for a lot of people the entheogenic aspects fade with continued use.
Nevertheless, the entheogenic use of plants is definitely a time honored method of consciousness shift.
Religion is often used in the place of drugs for the many reasons you eloquently stated…
1. I don’t know where you live or how old you are but your comments about the drug culture of today are somewhat outdated, if not seriously so. Cocaine, ecstasy, MDMA, mephedrone, GHB, ketamine, for example, are typically used to ~heighten~ emotion not suppress.
2. Not sure what you mean by the “misuse or abuse of sex”. I get the feeling you mean anything that isn’t man-on-woman-missionary-styley, but I could be wrong. But anyway. If it’s consentual, it’s no one’s business. If people weren’t so hung up on sex there’d be less shame, less suicide, less insanity, and i daresay far fewer sexual assaults.
3. Have no idea why you’d think to quote Hubbard on the subject of womanhood. He was a man. And a loon. Want a world where women aren’t taught anything but the management of family, the care of men and the creation of the next generation? Go live in Afghanistan, Yemen or DROC and tell us how civilised and advanced society is.
Seriously. Who gives a crap about the “social role” of a meat sack?
4. “Present problem of terrorism”? Huh? Who are you referring to? Britain? Or America? Or is it ISIS? All guilty of terrorism. George Dubya was a Christian wasn’t he? Blair certainly was. Peace loving? Not so much.
mwesten – I applaud you for taking on several of the points in Dio’s disjointed posting about drugs, alcohol, sex, terrorism, religion, women and children… there was way too much to reply to, so I chose just one issue to focus on – (women’s *place* (hah!) in society) but there are more things I’d like to say about his other comments, thanks for addressing some of the issues so well. – T.J.
Well said, mwestern. Hubbard was a woman (and child) hater of note.
4. America is a war mongering country. It has disturbed the balance of things on this planet in a criminal way. Terrorism – a word bandied about for reasons of greed and evil by the very western powers that “decry” it.
In response to all my critics: When I read the scn books, I see different theta levels of data, varying from corrupt to low theta, to very high theta data. It is my hypothesis that there were two or more entities vying to channel through him. Hubbard also plagerized a lot data, It is a smorgasbord of data from very bad to very good.
I read the books with a critical mind and questioned and evaluated every datum and every concept. I have never met anyone who has done that yet. So when I said Hubbard, I was wrong, it was someone else who said the high theta data.
Next; all of you think that what I wrote is my creation. That is not true. I did not make that up any more than I made the law of gravity. I just looked at life and society and saw.
What I said is according to natural law, the laws of right and wrong.
The law of nature, the truth, does not care one damn bit what your opinions or arguments are.
Like the law of gravity does not care what you think.
And I repeat the following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Matthew 12:34-37King James Version (KJV)
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things?
For out of the abundance of evil and ignorance in the heart, the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The rest of my point cannot be said better than the above.
Dio
Dio, there is no “natural law of right or wrong” that you speak of. Where do you claim to find this “law”?
The closest I know of is the “Golden Rule” which states “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” as most religions have a similar saying, worded slightly differently.
Taking quotes out of context from the Bible does not prove anything; it’s a book full of many quotes, some contradictory, and you are free to quote from any source, it does not make it any more valid or “true” it is merely part of your belief system, which you are free to practice as you choose, since we enjoy the freedoms of living in an advanced, free society, where men and women are allowed equal rights.
You are aware, of course, that other people may quote from their books, the Torah, the Q’uran, the book of Mormon, the Tao, etc., and they are convinced their own beliefs are just as “right” as you feel your beliefs are. The fact of quoting from any book does not make your statements “the truth”.
What is true, are proven facts. Studies conducted over many years that measure the heath of a society and those studies have shown that free societies that afford equal rights for both genders are by far more happy, peaceful, productive societies.
– T.J.
First, I do not believe anything.
A belief is a confession of ignorance.
No one in their right mind would believe anything.
You either know or you don’t know or you are not sure.
Not knowing the difference between a belief and a fact is the cause of all insanity and incompetence.
The value of a datum is determined by how well it works.
All you have to do to know if what I said is correct, is to study and cause and effect and especially long term effect. It is only a matter of time before Colorado degenerates enough and becomes like Brussels and Syria,
Furthermore:
You Americans are so barbaric that you think that everyone should be allowed to carry guns.
You Americans spend twice as much on health care as other developed countries with universal health care (free healthcare to everyone) and think it is wrong to have universal health care.
Is this intelligent?
You wrote: I read the books with a critical mind and questioned and evaluated every datum and every concept. I have never met anyone who has done that yet.
Wow, that is a very arrogant statement to make and I bet a lot of ex’s and current sci’s would be offended by that.
As for us Americans and our guns and healthcare…the vast majority of the country does not feel that way…our system has been totally corrupted by greed, special interest groups and big business that do NOT speak for the average American.
So to summarize:
It wasn’t actually Hubbard who said certain things. He was channelling someone else. But only with regards to the things you like and agree with. The rest was indeed Hubbard.
Then there’s some age-old apocalyptica written by superstitious desert folk.
And finally, your opinions aren’t opinions. They are actually facts based on “natural laws” that you have “observed”. Whether anyone else has observed them is irrelevant as is any evidence presented to disprove them – they are absolute truths. Because you said so. Because you observed them.
Well, I’m convinced.
The fact that you quote the KJV makes me feel sad that the Church no longer burns heretics. The KJV is a heresy and a bad translation. Didn’t the wise men who composed this evil in 1610 know that “malakoi” meant “male prostitute” and “arsenokoitai” could apply to either gender? No, they didn’t, which meant that my tribe is being persecuted to this day by people like you for doing what comes naturally to us.
The moment you can authoritatively quote from someone other than Hubbard and the New Testament is the moment that I’ll start listening to you. But you can’t, so I don’t have to. Your words are sufficient to condemn you.
That’s really interesting about Colorado. Glad to hear about the public schools, it’s great that schools are receiving funds, education is so important.
I’m not against marijuana use although I personally don’t smoke. I’d never get anything done, lol. Scientology’s stance against drugs (all drugs, even prescription meds) and against psychiatry in all forms (except the pseudo-science of ‘auditing’ which is unproven as to effectiveness) seems extreme.
In all societies throughout history the use of substances, herbs, minerals or whatever have been utilized. Plant-based substances were used by Native Americans, and the substances derived from them can help with illness, inflammation, chronic pain, and other conditions. I believe that they do have their place in society. Ask anyone who has suffered from a serious illness. The way Scientology views illness (self caused) and treats it (ignores, for the most part) is really awful.
Yes, there are problems with “street drugs”, the unregulated, unprescribed, dangerous substances used for non-medical reasons, and they do cause deaths, but if that is the “drug use” being targeted, it takes much more than handing out leaflets. It takes an understanding of what causes drug use in the first place, and what can replace the need to self-medicate in a sense, which is a much larger issue, involving society, isolation, economics, and other factors. There is a good “TedTalk” by Johann Hari on addiction and what factors influence it – I can’t paste a link here, but search for it if interested.
Enjoy your vacation! 🙂
Yo Bruno,
NEWSFLASH FOR YOU!
The reason you have “need for some new posts held on the Org board” is not due to expansion good buddy. The real why is CONTRACTION. Your don’t pay squat, you are very demanding and I suspect you make promises about ‘getting up the bridge’ that you can’t deliver.
Ask yourself this Bruno buddy, “Why would anyone want to be on staff at a $cientology Org?”
Back when i was in the Libertarian Party I could practically lecture all day long about the absurdity of the drug laws. But the pro-hemp culture position could get a bit absurd as well. Someone had published a short book about a Department of Agriculture project to exploit an unused part of the hemp plant to make paper because of concerns about deforestation. Meanwhile the Dirty Rotten Capitalists solved the problem by planting replacement trees.
I’m not aware of a pot party going violent or obnoxious , not like alcohol ..Nuffield said
Nor am I, Phil. Now, I must warn you, there’s a good chance you’ll get the munchies and laugh quite a bit.
Tobacco kills. It killed my mom at 56. It’s killed several of my friends. Pot hasn’t.
Scientologists tend to live in a very small world, with strong ‘principles and dogmas’ and have lost contact with the rest of the world this being technical progress, human rights, proper care of personnel and their approach and tactics to combat drugs have led to a 0.00001% benefit for humanity, if at all.
Miscavige mat think different when he counts the millions obtained by false campaigns, funds that are (of course) under his control.
Enjoy Colorado Mike, it is indeed a beautiful place.
Note that just this week the Supreme Court declined to take a case brought by Oklahoma and Kansas to stop Colorado marijuana legalization. They complained that people are bringing loads of weed across the border and into their states, causing havoc. Of course that’s preposterous (the 2nd part). What Oklahoma and Kansas need to grok right away is that their residents are crossing into Colorado and handing over millions in sales tax that could actually be collected at home.
I grok what you say, hgc. Oklahoma and Kansas are very red states. And, Kansas is now officially broke due to Governor Brownback. Imagine what they could do with the taxes the Pot Barons bring to their state? But, hey, keep on using alcohol and tobacco products all you want. Just don’t go home obliterated and beat up your wife….
Legalize marijuana. It’s not heroin. They do not want to because it is the only thing keeping the DEA afloat. They seize more pot and do more raids for that than any other by far. People going to jail for pot is a trajidy.
Since alcohol and tobacco products are legal, pot should certainly be legal. Nice post, Jim.
First, OSD, although pot “should” be legal, let’s just hope it gets done state by state and not federally. Think about what happens as soon as the Feds legalize it. It opens the doors for the big boys (think Phillip Morris, etc.) to step all over the people currently in the biz. Second, it would open the door to all kinds of adulteration, and who knows what. So as long as the Fed keeps the enforcement low priority, and essentially not enforcing the law, then I think things are cool. The only downside is the banking situation. Just remember don’t vote “Red”, and prioritization stays low.
Outstanding post, Toker! You’re absolutely right regarding the Feds. Just keep it state by state. Otherwise, Big Tobacco would jump all over it.
Toker, we shall have other conversations…
I have asked a very bright (before she became a Scilon in 2008) public Pre-Clear friend of mine who I am in business with what drugs does Scientology approve of, and of course, she evades the answer. She had to retake the puriff and SRD in 2015 and thought she’d be Clear by now but of course, since she’s a mini-whale, the Scilons are milking her to the max, now auditing her past lives where it turns out she was a drug abuser. I ask her what drugs did she use if Big Pharma did not exist back then and why if they are saving the planet, Big Pharma now appears to be more powerful the older Scientology gets and even states are legalizing marijuana. I work with addicts, have a BAC tester in my car to test people (can’t figure out how lies more, addicts or Scientologists) and when I confront her about how I can test 0.0 or athletes test negative for even traces after doing drugs 30 days ago, of course she obfuscates and tries to deflect.
Portugal has an interesting example I’ve been following for a decade. This article is a bit technical but is probably fairly indicative of how good the studies really are.
http://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening#.DWTjCfoaL
Wow! Why am I so not surprised!
I think the underlying issue here is that Scientology, as a group, is incapable of allowing others to be who they are or who possess a different viewpoint from their own.
Whether it is drugs, morals, politics, lifestyle, personal goals, sexuality, religion etc. They have very fixed ideas about all those things and are intolerant of any views not aligned with their own. This makes them incapable of seeing life from another’s point of view, hence they can never truly understand and relate to others.
This manifests when they are dealing with raw public. They claim to “understand”, but really they view the individual as a flawed being, hopelessly aberrated.
Same with the individuals they carelessly discard and declare suppressive. This is the height of their arrogance and intolerance. Divergent views of church management, interpretation of policy, or even how the individual wishes to contribute (or not), are ruthlessly rooted out and eliminated.
In my opinion, this is why people leave Scientology and why the general public wants nothing to do with them.
Those are really good points statpush. The mindset in Scientology does seem to be very rigid. There is also a problem with how people are treated when they decide to leave, the organization is not very kind or forgiving. This does influence people against the group, their own treatment of their members and ex-members.
Very good point Mike.
Scientology says, Drugs=medications=bad.
There is evidence that people outside the cherch understand the problems of drug use. However, they don’t A=A about it.
A=A is logical and true. I never understood this a=a=a nonsense….
Should be a=b=C…..
or do I have a misunderstood word ?
Roger, generally, in the Scn reactive mind equation “A=A=A”, “A” stands for “anything”. It’s an explanation of the reactive mind’s inability to differentiate one thing from some other thing which has a remote similarity and about responding the same to each. Dog was hit by Joe with rolled up newspaper… mailman carries something similar to rolled up newspaper… in dog’s reactive mind the mailman = Joe. Ability to differentiate is more or less impaired.
wow ! A=anything never I have read that in in about 45 years…seems I missed something. Thank you …it sounds interesting…
I always think about news stories that come up every now and then about parents who are in a religious group and refused to let their child take antibiotics for an infection, which would have easily cured it, and the child died. Or I remember stories about China under the communists in the 70’s and how medicine was so scarce that elderly Grandparents died after suffering unrelenting pain from a terminal illness such as cancer, how their last days were filled with agony when they could have been eased by pain medicine. I can’t say all drugs are bad.
Bruno Bergeron must have received the ‘drug free world’ franchise from the dwarfenführer. He is blessed by the Mr. Big himself. I wonder how much competition he had for that job? It doesn’t matter, no matter how much he makes, it won’t be enough and someone else will get that job soon enough.
Now, how much commission can he rake off while sending enough ‘uplines’ to keep the Sith Lord happy? If Bruno makes enough, he may escape and join the wog world. One can hope……
It’s absolutely clear that the ninnies writing these flyers don’t spend a nano-second thinking about what they’re writing. “…and new distribution points here is Colorado!” Ugh. From bad grammar to the most boringly regurgitated groupthink, Scientologists have surpassed becoming bad caricatures of themselves; it’s getting to the point where even I, the most obsessed type of Scientology-watcher, have become so bored with their drivel that I can skip a week of it and feel okay about it. Only the knowledge of the real harm they do every day to individuals and families keeps me interested in following their, um, progress. Mike certainly deserves a little break from the nonsense.
That bad grammar you read is the BEST grammar they have.
I use medical cannabis for a recognized medical condition that is obvious enough that my prescription came from my very mainstream primary care physician who works at one of the major health care providers in Southern California. Cannabis works better and with fewer side effects than some of my other prescription options. I purchase cannabis at a collective two blocks from my house in LA. People are streaming in and out of it all day. The displays contain about 50 different strains and dozens of forms of edibles and non psychotropic products based on CBD that have some medicinal benefit. I’m sure that some people frequenting the collective have dubious ailments, but that is not my concern. Recreational cannabis will be on the CA ballot this fall, and it is expected to pass. If Scientology wants a graphic understanding of its utter failure it should compare the current state and prospects of itself with the cannabis industry in Los Angeles.
I try to find alternatives to drugs whenever possible. But I think the war on drugs has done far more harm to society than drugs themselves. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the two that are legal are the two most lethal.
Thank you for that, good people.
Couldn’t agree more.?
Dear Sue Anderson,
“Dial this number” ???????
What decade are you living? Dialing, along with rotary phones, went out in the 80’s.
What is this, Dialing for Dollars??? Oh, wait…damn! I probably gave some reg ideas…
But understand the position of Drug Free World as well as Scientology that ALL drugs are bad including prescription medications, again, evidence to the contrary. Flat Earth Society indeed!
This is all 1950s crap that has been imbued into the members. Just like hip hip. Can you imagine having a migraine and you can’t even take Aspirin for it? So the member just suffers.
Where did you get such a misconception? My 33 yr experience saw nothing like that. Their position has been against psychotrophic or mind-altering drugs and things that impair recall; not thyroid meds, antibiotics, etc, etc. CoS is not completely whacked although DM most certainly is. It’s important to distinguish truth from falsehood; here and anywhere in Life.
There have been many personal stories related from ex-scientologists about how they were not allowed to take prescribed medicines for such things as diabetes and other diagnosed conditions.
You’re right, Scn911. The Church of Scientology’s policy is against psychotropics and hallucinogens. In every Scientology org there is a notice on the wall – in Reception, I think – that states that if you’re there heal a medical condition you’re in the wrong place and you need to go and see medical doctor. (That’s paraphrased). And, people, please, I’m not defending Co$, just stating facts.
Jesus, typos!
Jesus types what???
Bullshit. Ask Tory Magoo about that. They forbade her to take medicine for her epilepsy. She almost died from that.
I believe you, Espi, and have read what she wrote about being forbidden to take medicine for her epilepsy, and how she nearly died from that, and I believe her.
All I’m saying is that whoever denied Tori that permission was violating Hubbard’s policies and what it states on posters on the walls in orgs’ reception areas, a statement (I’ve been told) that is posted on the wall in Reception in EVERY Scn org and mission; a statement that I personally have read on the wall of 2 different orgs, for whatever that’s worth to you.
There’s this other factor; Tori was in the Sea Org, and from all that I’ve read (I was never SO or on staff) HCOPLs mean nothing in the Sea Org unless the following of them is convenient, profitable and/or conversant with the whims and caprices of senior Sea Org management.
Excuse me; “Conversant” is the wrong word. I meant “in concert with” or “in sync with” the whims and caprices of senior Sea Org management.
Well, Aqua, my band will be “in concert with” others in attendance in Huntington Beach on 23 April! Oh, my bad. You meant “in sync with” others who are syncing like you. Sort of like Syncopation while being in concert…
That’s some good stuff.
I’d love to hear your band, someday, thanks, OSD. Unfortunately, I’m not a hop, skip and a jump away from Huntington Beach. What do you play, by the way?
OSD is correct, it is heavily pushed that no pain killers are used whatsoever. And if you do use them, KR is written if you fail to disclose this to your auditor CS
What do Scientologists do when they have extensive dental work, like if someone needs a root canal or gum surgery? I can’t imagine having invasive dental procedures without painkillers, that sounds like torture.
And Hubbard’s “silent childbirth” – the day he gives birth is the day he can tell a woman they can’t make any noise and don’t need any pain medicine.
TJ, I was in Scientology for 34 years.
As a kind of fanatic for dental health and oral hygeine , I’ve had some root canals, periodontal work, some crowns, a few veneers and some dental implants. NONE of these procedures were EVER done without PLENTY of novocaine to numb me up beforehand. Never was I ever told by anyone at a Scientology org that I could not have novocaine, antibiotics, or pain killers afterward if necessary as part of any dental procedure. Now, afterwards I would usually not fill the pain killer prescription but that was my choice because I preferred to tough out the discomfort following a procedure and heal naturally, but as a public I was never ordered nor even advised not to take the pain killers. This was my experience as a public, for whatever its worth. I can’t vouch for the experience of others and it may differ if they were staff of SO, which I never was. I was your run of the mill ordinary sheeple, not a whale or a celeb.
Typo: “staff or (not ‘of’) SO”.
Dear Aquamarine, maybe your Org was lazy to implement the HCOB 15 DEC 1965 “Students guide to acceptabler behaviour”
I quote here few points of this HCOB:
8. Do not consume any alcoholic beverage between 6 a.m. on Sundays and after class on Fridays.
9. Do not consume or have administered to yourself or any other student any drug, antibiotics, aspirin, barbiturates, opiates, sedatives, hypnotics or medical stimulants for the duration of the course without the approval of the D of T.
13. Do not receive any treatment, guidance, or help from anyone in the healing arts, i.e. physician, dentist, etc, without the consent of the D of T / ethics officer. (Emergency treatment when the D of T is not available is excepted.)
end of quote
In my Org if one public had to go to the dentist he was not allowed in the academy nor in auditing for the next days. And in that case because of the huge push on the stats for courses and intensive completions it was not easy to get away with days of absence from Academy or HGC without ending in Ethics. After all if you precipitate a medical condition you were considered PTS or out-ethics.
Thanks, Wagstaff. I learned about not taking aspirin while on staff.