There are those who have left the Sea Org who were once privy to events in the world of David Miscavige.
Many of them were in The Hole at one time or another.
Rather than speaking out about the abuses they witnessed or experience, they have chosen to remain silent. A number of them have taken advantage of their previous status to make money with or through scientologists. Some of them took healthy payouts. Probably more than the $50,000 that was handed to Debbie Cook — though scientology then sued her for her supposed breach of that agreement and had their asses handed to them in a court room in San Antonio and subsequently settled the case. Unlike those that follow, Debbie DID speak out.
Quite a number of them are on social media — but of course uttering not a word about their past experiences, and apparently not caring about the well-being of those they left behind after they made their own escape.
Here are a few members of the Hall of Shame — no doubt there are others to add:
Angie Blankenship — formerly Miscavige’s right-hand woman. She was “Hole In Charge” for a while after she fell out of favor with Miscavige and was sent to the Hole with all the other undersirables. Not sure how she got out of The Hole, but she ended up getting pregnant with Blake Mooney in PAC. She used that as a reason to get out of the Sea Org. She is apparently no longer with Blake. She lives in Clearwater and works at a company that sells titanium to CST for their “time capsules”. Probably an arranged job to keep her on the reservation.
Janet McLaughlin and Colm McLaughlin — For many years, Janet (formerly Stevens and Light) was the head of the IAS. She disagreed with Miscavige and her and her third husband Colm were planning to leave the SO. Miscavige discovered this and sent a “commando team” from The Hole to grab Janet and bring her and her staff to The Hole and take her husband Colm back to the Freewinds where he was held for several years. Not sure how they ended up getting out. One of her sons is out of scientology. Another remains in the Sea Org (Danny Light). I assume she is being allowed to maintain a communication line with Danny as the means of keeping her under control.
Greg Hughes and Debbie Hughes — both former members of WDC. Both former inhabitants of The Hole. Debbie had a serious diabetic condition. The abuse she suffered in The Hole nearly blinded her and ultimately her daughter (ex Int Base Ranch kid) had to threaten to expose her abuse and call in law enforcement to get her out. She was then taken for medical care. The Hughes’ went back to what they had done before they joined the Sea Org when they had founded Sterling Management. They do “business consulting” under the umbrella of WISE.
Bob Wright and Laurence Wright/Barram. Bob took over from Tom DeVocht first overseeing the construction of the “Super Power” building and then moving to Int to basically become the Int Landlord. Laurence worked in the International Landlord office and was a Miscavige “pet” for some years. But as with everyone else in history, both of their fortunes fell in the world of Miscavige. How they got out is a mystery. It seems they are no longer together.
Tommy Davis Shortly before I was sent out of Hole and to London to deal with the BBC, Tommy Davis had blown the Sea Org and driven himself to Las Vegas. He was persuaded to return and sent to Florida where he was sec checked by Jessica Feshbach/Rodriguez. She was another Miscavige “pet” who had been the “buddy” of Katie Holmes for a while. Not sure how Tommy got out of the SO — no doubt Ann Archer helped and his wealthy (non-scientologist) father at first got him a cushy job with one of his real estate buddies. He subsequently turned his relationship with James Packer (Tommy had been Tom Cruise’s Sea Org gofor when Cruise had woo’d James Packer) into a job running his North American operations. He was deposed in the Rathbun lawsuit at some point and continued to lie just like he was in the Sea Org. I assume his mother (Ann Archer) has something to do with us continued cozy relationship with scientology. Celebrities are treated differently from mere mortals.
Jessica Davis She is the daughter of Joe and Cindy Feshbach who was married to Tommy Davis. She was Katie Holmes “handler” and one of the people who targeted Leah Remini when she asked about Shelly Miscavige. When Tommy Davis blew to Las Vegas, she was depatched to Flag to sec check him after he was recovered (he subsequently left permanently). Apparently their time together in the sec checking room blossomed into a romance, she left her husband (he had long since abandoned his first wife Nadine when she fell into disfavor with Miscavige). They left the Sea Org, had kids and then Tommy went off to find his third wife — following the Hubbard “tech” on the subject. Jessica was a part of the “inner circle” with Miscavige and Cruise for many years.
Javier Ruiz formerly the husband of Barbara Ruiz — at one time the Executive Director of Author Services Inc. She was for quite some time a Miscavige pet – “tough” and “uncompromising” though she liked to frequent expensive stores in Beverly Hills when not acting as a rabid chihuaha berating people on behalf of Miscavige. I assume she ended up in The Hole eventually, everyone did. No idea where she is now, but her former husband is out and saying nothing.
Jason Bennick formerly the Chief Officer Gold. He was a favorite Miscavige punching bag in Golden Era. He was known as a serious butt-kisser, and remains that way to this day. Not sure how he escaped Gold, but he runs a car repair business in Clearwater and is used by OSA still to defend the abuses of Miscavige.
Astra Croft/Fear She was the D/Commanding Officer CMO International. She was in The Hole for a LONG time. Somehow escaped, I don’t know how. But she returned to her scientology family in East Grinstead with her husband Ryan Fear (son of the former head of SMI International Richard Fear) who was also incarcerated in the Hole. Both of them witnessed numerous acts of physical violence at the Int Base and by David Miscavige. In fact, Astra was even a participant of the infamous “Musical Chairs” incident depicted in Going Clear.
Abigail Miller and Jason Miller Abigail was a member of the Watchdog Committee in CMO International for a while. I think her husband Jason was in the “Programs Bu” of CMO International. Both of them were also in the Hole. Both of them somehow escaped and returned to East Grinstead.
Sadie Johansson — the woman who appears in the Depends TV ad that aired on The Aftermath this season along with her husband Axel. Sadie is known as the person who was told by David Miscavige to get in her car and run down Marc Yager (then the CO CMO International). Sadie followed the order and tried to run Yager down — he jumped off the loading dock at the Castle studio at Gold in order to get away from her. Yager ended up on crutches.
Mark Ginge-Nielsen The person Debbie Cook testified about on the stand in the San Antonio courtroom who had been ordered by Miscavige to lick a bathroom floor clean with his tongue. And he did it.
Gali Rodin The sister of Ailon Barram who was formerly a member of Miscavige’s inner sanctum. Gali was in CMO International and was also put in The Hole. She escaped and returned to East Grinstead along with Astra and Abigail above.
As I said, there are others I have forgotten.
But these people should not be living in the shadows, maintaining secrets on behalf of an organization they LEFT. Some took money. Some are being controled by familial connections. To one degree or another, they are all cowards. You cannot witness what they witnessed and not understand it is wrong — or have any compassion for those who remain in that environment and continue to be abused.
As they old saying goes: The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Good post Mike. What is notable is that there do not seem to be many CURRENT departures from Int or PAC who can describe clearly what is going on. Have OSA changed the way they manipulate folk on the departure routing form or have those who left without routing out just gone numb out of fear?
I rather stupidly routed out and could have saved myself some months of hardship since I bunked off the RPFs RPF by ditching my glued-on twin, backtracked to pick up my bag, sped down the Bridge Publications staircase and high-tailed it off to the underground, where I took the first tube to Beverley hills!
Without any support group it took me some time before I realized the ‘contracts’ were a load of bunk and I could express myself.
It would be good to hear what the current situation is from people who have more recently left.
In case you haven’t been following Javier Ruiz and his new wife – he is now one of the Chairs of the Technology Association of Portland (https://www.techoregon.org/board-directors/) and the CEO of CarZato, and she is running for city council of McMinnville as an Anti-Vax Republican.
Mike,
Your post is shameful. You are not the man I thought you were. I wish you would tell the WHOLE Lisa McPherson truth, Kyle Brennan, etc. All the people YOU are remaining silent about are being lost to the wind.
I wholeheartedly supported you… I hope you ans Leah realize how much damage you both are doing to this cause.
Sorry to disappoint you.
Funny how you seem to have some insider knowledge about what I am supposedly being “silent” about? What information do you assume I have that I have not told? And not told to whom?
As someone who just pops up with an anonymous ID, why should anyone take you seriously?
Hi Alonso! How’$ Marty doing? Put him on the can$, let u$ know…
Mike, what has happened to the mechanics of the site? When I posted something something before it was immediately stored and I was able to see it posted under the link with a “Waiting for moderation” or whatever the phrase was. Now it just disappears and I have to assume that it was successfully posted until it either appears (or not) a few hours later when you have approved it.
Also I have to enter my name and email address each time whereas before it appeared every time I posted something or rather even before I had started to enter text – I just had to enter the text, everything else was done automatically by the site.
Kat, you said, “Unfortunately, I tend to be very stubborn, so y’all are stuck with me until its over! Well, I want to tell you that unfortunately, I just can’t seem to find a way to express what it is I want to say to you about that without fear of embarrassment.
I love reading your posts. You never fail to make me happy or proud of you. You probably should take words like these with a grain of salt or maybe you should ask Mike for his opinion. I’m guessing he would tell you … well … maybe I should be careful before claiming to know how others feel. I have learned many times that is a big mistake. And yet, I seem to do it over and over again.
OK. I’ve said enough and should really leave before saying something I will regret. I just felt a need to tell tell you how I feel about your participation here. Please understand this is just my opinion. It would be a mistake to believe everyone feels that same way. I’ve gotten into so much trouble in the past for saying things like that. I just wish I knew how to express those feelings in a way that would not cause problems.
Skyler,
I am very honored that you feel solidarity with me, and I would never want you to be embarrassed when voicing your thoughts or opinions. I enjoy reading your posts and comments as well, and I always look forward to what you have to say. I honestly think of most of the people on this blog as new friends, and I hope that they feel the same about me. While we all have different perspectives, and we don’t always agree with each other, the fact that we all feel secure in sharing our thoughts and opinions is amazing and very freeing.
thank you for everything, and I look forward to many more posts and responses!
Kat
Someone ought to tak that photo of the rotting bulk of a disintegrating Hubbard in his Queens hideout shot in 1973 and print it up on large picket protest posters to parade outside Big Blue, the Celebrity Center etc so the scientology sheep can have an opportunity to take a good hard look at the depraved freak they are following. A couple of billboards would be nice too. I guess you’d have to have the negative to be able to get print quality though.
When I left in 82 I had no thoughts of Scientology till 2009. I even avoided letting people know I was a Scientologist.
My mind just wanted to put the whole dysfunctional evil behind me and I wanted to purge the memory.
Distance, I wanted a huge distance between my life and the cult.
It wasn’t till Marty’s blog that I realized you can leave physically but not totally mentally.
Each person comes to grip with what happens in their own time.
Some may never inspect on a deep level what happened to their minds.
Yup!
Yes, we don’t want any inspection of what is going on in your mind, do we Brian? We don’t want to frighten people after all! (I almost wrote “Brain” there but I have promised not to call you that again. Or was there a time limit I imposed on myself for that? Can you remind me? Haha!)
Let’s not forget almost 3,000 people (not all of them former Sea Org) chose to speak out:
http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Former_Church_of_Scientology_members_who_have_spoken_out
Strength in numbers!
2,925 names to exact. Probably more people on this list, than all of the Scientologist living in Clearwater.
Christopher baranet said:”2,925 names to exact. Probably more people on this list, than all of the Scientologist living in Clearwater.”
DEFINITELY more than the # of scientologists living in Clearwater, by my guess, Perhaps more than the number of East Coast scientologists.
to be exact,
I meant to say.
The folks that I think of are Pat Broeker and Hubbard’s kids, Arthur & Suzette. I bet any of them would have a LOT to say if they only would.
And Davey’s brother, Ron Miscavige Jr .
Ms. B Haven, Arthur & Suzette would have VERY little data. I know more than them. They were young when Hubtard took a powder and abandoned them. DM kept them in the dark for obvious reasons. Diana is the only one “in the know”.
Wynski speaks sooth – for a change. Well, apart from the “took a powder” hyperbole – can’t resist can you Wyn?
The phrase “take a powder” means to “scram, vanish, Fool. Which is EXACTLY what Hubtard did as a Father to Suzy & Arthur. Only a scamologist would not use the truth. Or object to its use.
Yes, the definition I was aware of. Well, he was running a world wide operation so no he wasn’t the sort of father that did a 9-5 job and came home and had his slippers waiting by the fireside. Next it will be “Hubbard didn’t sing lullabies to his kids so he’s a bad father”!
DIPSHIT! aka Foolproof. Hubtard was HIDING in various cities, sitting in hotel rooms watching TV for much of this time. AND, MANAGEMENT WAS LOCATE WHERE HIS CHILDREN WERE. YOU FUCKING MORON.
“There comes a time when silence is betrayal.” MLK Jr
Ignored behaviour is condoned behaviour….
The people mentioned above may believe they are out – so they have nothing further to do.
Those same people, may fight everyday for the rights of animals or the under privileged but
they forget that those they left behind need them just as much as the ones they fight for now.
I don’t believe these people are bad – they are just people who are ‘moving on’ so to speak.
They need to be reminded that they are in a position to save so many others from the same
abuses and atrocities they themselves escaped from. I really pray they see this and step
forward – they are in such a position of power over evil. They could be the the straw – the last straw needed!
Sue,
Great post. Your words are reminders that, as human beings, we are all responsible for each other in one way or another. Thanks for the reminder.
Kat
There are the basic survival instincts that come into play IMO. Fight, flee, or freeze.
Those fighting are doing so out in the open, those fleeing are putting as much distance as they can between themselves and the cult, and those freezing are utterly stopped in any action. The last two groups have personal trauma similar to PTSD. They need therapy to extrovert enough to rise to fighting the people or organization from doing further harm.
Time was I would suggest auditing, but that would be referring to pre 1970’s days. All those folks have available nowdays is therapy of the psychological kind, and it is not likely for them to make that reach.
FPjr,
Its so sad that this cult has cut off avenues that would probably help ex-members come to terms with what has happened to them. Do you know if there s a support group that has been formed exclusively for ex-scientologists? Since they have been indoctrinated to mistrust psychologists and therapy, a support group may be their best option. It must be devastating to lose your entire system of belief, and it might help some of them gain the strength to speak out about the abuses they suffered. More people need to come forward, especially those who witnessed abuse. While they could attempt to join a blog, the subjects discussed may make them uncomfortable,and they may not be ready to face what they went through. It would need to be a group that has no judgement about what happened. Just a thought…
Kat
Kat,
Several support groups exist: EX-csi boards, tony Ortega and this blog, there ARE low key independent auditors around and of course the Aftermath Foundation. The implant conditioning is deep is some, whereas others do come out of the trauma and get active.
Back in 1971, I suggested to the AOLA that they reach to ‘nam vets to give them free dianetics training to co audit the experience.. THE REPLY:??? let them pay just as everyone else. I said that ONLY someone who had been there could be safe enough to open up. THE REPLY?? Auditing works regardless.. I gave up.
FPjrsaid:”Back in 1971, I suggested to the AOLA that they reach to ‘nam vets to give them free dianetics training to co audit the experience.. THE REPLY:??? let them pay just as everyone else. I said that ONLY someone who had been there could be safe enough to open up. THE REPLY?? Auditing works regardless.. I gave up.”
Nice sentiment you had then: empathy toward the vets, but that’s far below the abilities of the dedicated Sea Org staff who always have been so high and mighty, poo-pooing the idea that PTSD could be a real thing — though with a little translation it could be explained, somewhat, in scn terms. But anything that didn’t contribute to IMMEDIATE STATS, especially GROSS INCOME could NEVER be done. For a self-described humanitarian, Tubby sure didn’t have an ounce of humanity left in him and he obviously had no respect for the military — or anyone other than his fulsome full-of-it self.
Scientology is a flopping fish on dry pavement.
All those people privy to the inner workings of scientologists’ sick and demented leader might just be too dumb to realize they have stories that the public will pay to hear! But they may be biding their time. The good news is that the truth always comes out in the long run, and it is delicious to know Miscavige is a frightened little being.
Drew Rob. He left with his wife prior to June ’97 when I was kicked out. I had wittnessed him being abused in front of all PAC crew by James Byrne a few years earlier.
I phoned to apologise to him for standing by and doing nothing.
His response to me was “I deserved it.”
It has taken me several years to recognise and remember myself being abused. But I’m working hard at recovery.
Some people leave and don’t know they need to recover. They honestly believe anything they feel was done to them was their own fault.
Cece: “some people leave and don’t know they need to recover” Thank you for saying that. There are some ex members who may be reading this that need to wake up and start deprogramming. They may be out of Scientology but they are still “righteous Scientologists”. Damn the fool that keeps saying “but I had wins” and for Xenu’s holy sake – wake the fuck up please? They are difficult to experience and have no empathy. If you are reading this – please, get your humanity back and please start the deprogramming. Please read about how Scientology and L Ron Hubbard duped you so you can recover. You are arrogant, righteous and hard to be around. We love you but we hope you get better. Oh – and we don’t “pull it in” when something negative happens to us. That really is harmful to say things to someone who is hurting from an experience in life. That is a mind control mechanism implanted in your mind by L Ron Hubbard and his clever system of controlling people.
I left Scn in 1982 without suffering any abuse and never read a word about it until watching the “Going Clear” movie in 2015 got me interested. I started reading Mark Rathbun’s “Deconstructing Scientology” series of posts and about eight or ten ideas and attitudes I had carried forward in those intervening years seemed to bubble up for inspection. One of them was the idea that I was somehow different, separate or “knew things” other people who had not participated in Scn would not or could not know. I wouldn’t call it arrogance and I don’t believe it caused me any great detriment in my life but it was still something interesting to look at.
People who once were in other practices or cults maybe or probably have had a similar experience if they reviewed their time in. Nowadays my Scn experience gives me something to talk about on a Scn blog.
“They honestly believe anything they feel was done to them was their own fault.”
Cece, this mindset is not limited to Scientologists. Someone I’ve known for 40 years has been in an abusive relationship for exactly that long. They’re not married. They live together; he won’t marry her. He doesn’t hit her but he verbally abuses and racially slurs her. Its just part of their relationship, that he does that. She makes excuses for him constantly, She always works it around so that it was something SHE did or said that caused the whole thing. She’s a slender, stunning looking 70 year old mixed race lady with a real clothes sense. She could pass for 54. Bright, witty, funny. He’s white. Nothing remarkable about him. that I can see. She loves him, he uses and abuses her, and its always her “fault”. Her mother has been telling her for decades how lucky she is to have him. Her mother is ALWAYS on HIS side!
Aqua,
That is the same basis that the cut has used to control members- if something doesn’t work the way it is supposed to (or the way Hubbard promised) it would NEVER be the tech or Hubbard- it is the PERSONS fault. If they believe that, it is the perfect way for the cult to explain why some one didn’t get superpowers. It is also why some people lie about “wins” and ‘superpowers’. If they didn’t get the results, its THEIR fault, not that it doesn’t work.
Abuse works on the same lines- it starts slow until the person is completely dependent on the cult (for approval, self worth etc, etc) then ramps up. By the time someone realizes they are in too deep (if they ever do), they have no way out and no one to turn to. Many times they ‘seduce’ the people closest to the victim so that the victim is even further in thrall. its hard for someone to break free because they no longer have an independent sense of self. The secrecy is another aspect that works to their benefit.
@ Kat,
Nails on the head all over the place.
Well, Aqua, I never believed that at all. If someone had tried that on me I would have found a 9′ high board fence! Following Policy you see! Haha! But if “management” hadn’t made it onerous to work on staff then these situations would never have occurred or rarely. Or to put it the “correct” way – if they had followed Policy – particularly the personnel policies.
Foolproof,
Thanks for your comment.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the points you’ve made above.
That said, you’re arguing ANOTHER issue.
A CONNECTED one, certainly – the TRUE reasons for tech failures,.
ALL I was (and am) against is the unfairness, stupidity and the injustice of tech failures the Scientologist experiences and/or ANY misfortune or non-optimum situation a Scientologist experiences being ALWAYS being the fault of the Scientologist’s personal out-ethics, and NEVER CO$’s out-tech or off-policy or otherwise out-ethics actions.
In other words, the total and ubiquitous AUTOMATICITY of this “Why” being given to sheeple for tech failures, ethics failures, etc., and worse, their unquestioning acceptance of it.
By way of vast understatement, it is SO wrong, SO unhelpful and all around damaging, so unnecessarily confusing and damaging to utilize this handy-dandy (for the church) “why” for every situation, on everyone.
Each situation’s data should be analyzed and the outpoints found
and acknowledged and corrected no matter WHOSE outpoints they were – the PCs or COS, or both!
That would be how an organization which purports to want to help people would operate!
And its heartbreaking to observe the acquiescence of the cowed sheeple, accepting this automaticity, accepting without question what amounts to an ARBITRARY inserted into a tech cycle or an ethics cycle…inevitably there will be those people who will NOT get the help they need, who’ll be told to correct things that AREN’T broken, as it were whilst what IS wrong is left unnamed and unhandled or possibly covered up…and this lack of confront will engender MORE confusion, MORE lack of confront, more upset, NOT helped, feeling betrayed…ooooh, this bothers me!
Sorry for the rant.
I am not sure that even now that such is the case in MOST botched cases. When it does and did occur this may have happened when the Org C/S and HCO are lazy and/or in some way incompetent and such is an easy “out” for the C/S. On the other hand there are some very very few cases where the person is actually doing something that hinders his progress. It is a very fine line. But to imply that this is the general stance in the Church now is probably an exaggeration Aqua. Saying that this is my assumption as I have not been on Org tech lines for decades now although I would still find it hard to believe that C/Ses are simply ignoring what the C/S Series HCOBs state. If you can think of say 10 botched cases and you know personally that 4 or 5+ of these fall into the category above, then you have a point but if it is 1 in 10 who has been vocal about it then not.
I would agree however that it seems to me that those remaining in the Church are more susceptible to agreeing with this than my peers back in the 70s and early 80s. And Tech and Qual staff only REALLY started having trouble with Regges and Execs after about 1981, granted.
Cece, Drew and Maria were actively rallying their Scottish compatriots over here as recently as a year or so ago according to a post on here or on Tony’s blog, so it would seem they didn’t quite make the full journey out after all. They may have left the SO but evidently not scn, which would also explain any silence.
great post Mike, kind of blows a hole in the great tech of Hubbard, Why would anybody leave? If Hubbard’s tech was so great to save mankind?
Oh and least we forget Trever and Sara Sargent, Terrence Une and his wife (the guard of the hole), Yael Lustgarten, oh so many more who went out for kids (excuse) to avoid the abuses.
“The Ex-SO Hall of Shame”? I’m not sure I agree with that tack. Just because some ex-es have been able to turn around and attack the cult doesn’t make those who haven’t less admirable for getting out, ceasing to support the evil empire’s activities. SOME in the past have attacked you, Mike, for not doing MORE to topple those in power and to help free those still trapped inside. Personally, I can’t think of a more effective ‘blow’ to the enemies of humanity running scn than the Aftermath Foundation, nor a more effective dead-agenting of the cult than the Aftermath series, both of which deserve our unstinting support IMO. One thing I idly dream of is the Foundation getting a strong-enough financial footing to support multiple suits brought against DMology, a reverse flow of what they did to the IRS.
FIRST we get the word out that DM’s ‘scientology’ is harmful to your health – mental and physical– then we get the remaining trapped souls freed, which would be the dissolution of the cult. Seeing his ’empire’ disintegrate around him might be sufficient punishment for the Dwarfenführer, but his life afterwards — even if he isn’t incarcerated amongst the “Bubbas” of cell block “G” — will be a great many steps down from his current lofty perch. May he have many years of penury to reflect upon his misdeeds. Step 1 is nicely done by the award-winning series; Step 2 is starting with the Foundation’s establishment, and its full effect is just starting to be seen. As bright as life has gotten for us now out, it’ll be pretty bleak for DM when he finally has to do meaningful work. Talk about a guy with no resumé and no salable skills once he gets out of the scam; I suppose one or more of the Whales might help ease him into somewhat-real life, and all the $$$ he’s squirreled away can last him awhile, but if he lives long enough, he WILL have to gat a job™, and there aren’t many that match his skill-set. [Which consists mostly of destroying a multi-national, multi-billion dollar business masquerading as a religion. Maybe the JWs will take him as their new prophet??? (Joking.)
The point is that these people continue to support the “evil empire” – they continue to be part of it.
Do you believe they are still brainwashed or waiting for immunity via F BI before they tell their story?
They are a combination of brainwashed and/or scared.
Brainwashed to think their eternal salvation and spiritual happiness relies on scientology.
Scared to speak because:
a) they wrongly believe the contracts of silence they signed are enforceable
b) they will lose contact with their family
c) they fear the smear and harassment
Or a combination of all 3.
d) because they were actively or passively involved in many evil things and activities while working in senior management. The higher you move up the org board in Scientology, the dirtier you will become. One enters Scientology usually as a victim, but if you participate and become part of the management you become more and more a perpetrator. And once you’re out, all the rotten things that you’ve committed tend to make you shut up. It then takes a lot of balls to speak out.
Mike,
Great post and truly respect what you & Leah have done to expose the cult, Do you have any perspective on why the Main Stream Media does not take on the cult? I believe the only way to bring any justice to Miscavige is to have the wrath of CNN, MSNBC & networks to hammer them daily. I do not think the general public knows about the crazy shit that goes on in Scientology. Does the MSM fear the wrath of Miscavige & the cult?
Ms. LaRue, I have enjoyed your comments & perspective on this blog, much respect to you.
1st time posting, enjoy the read and definitely would like to know if any of you find out when LRH spaceship is landing at one of the many houses built for his return. smh
The LRH spaceship is now referred to as the Mother Wheel in accordance with Nation Of Islam scripture.
From the Wikipedia entry on Nation Of Islam:
[Elijah Muhammad taught his followers about a Mother Plane or Wheel, a UFO that was seen and described in the visions of the prophet Ezekiel in the “Book of Ezekiel”, in the Hebrew Bible.
Now as I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the earth beside the living creatures, one for each of the four of them. As for the appearance of the wheels and their construction: their appearance was like the gleaming of beryl. And the four had the same likeness, their appearance and construction being as it were a wheel within a wheel. When they went, they went in any of their four directions without turning as they went. And their rims were tall and awesome, and the rims of all four were full of eyes all around.
— Ezekiel 1:15–18 (ESV)]
It’s arrival is already overdue and word has it that NOI Operating Muslims will get seating preference over Scientology Operating Thetans.
Perfect, Richard. I’m LOLing.
Now, I ask you, what the Sam Hill has this data from Ezekiel to do with ISLAM or ANYTHING related to what Islam’s Founder the Prophet Mohammed did or said, or, for that matter, ANYTHING written in the Koran?
And of course that’s a rhetorical question because the answer is, “Nothing, absolutely nothing”.
Nation of “Islam”, indeed!
What a crock!
Fine if they believe whatever they believe but what does Islam have to do with any of it?
Joel,
Thank you! Although I know the question wasn’t really aimed at me, I would like to add my two cents (you don’t have to read it if you don’t want to!!). As a mainstream ‘public’ , and a ‘never-in’, I agree with your conclusions about media needing to get involved. I don’t think that it is fear of the cult. They seem to have lost some of their teeth in recent years- they threaten to sue, but haven’t launched a suit in a while. I think the best way to put it is that there are no new ‘headline’ grabbing news on the cult right now. I have been collecting items on them (such as the Masterson case, the USC letter, the Miss America issues and other recent events), and have reached out to the major news ‘programs’, as well as other entities. There has been some interest, especially since 20/20 did the Shelly Miscavage story. I think that the more times we can get legitimate businesses to become aware of the scams, we have more ammunition to give to these outlets. When stories do air, I think they will air on shows like 20/20, not CNN.
I got involved after watching Aftermath then doing a lot of digging and reading to determine on my own what was going on (I didn’t want to go in completely uninformed). What I found was revolting and triggered moral outrage (which is , unfortunately, my cue to jump in head first without my floatation devices). Once I know something I cannot forget about it, so I tend to become very passionate about the subject. I think Aftermath may be moving the public to find out more. The more ‘public’ members learn about the cult and express their opinions, the more momentum will be gained.
I’m glad you posted! Please keep posting and sharing your take on things. Every person here seems to have a unique take on things, and I’m sure you would add some interesting viewpoints.
Sorry for the long winded reply to a question that wasn’t aimed at me…
PS, the spaceship is due to land on the INT base soon (its a secret so don’t tell anyone)
Kat
Kat,
Thanks for your reply and input. One would think with the IRS situation that the AG or IRS or even some of the states that the cult are in, the sates AG would look into this. I find it very strange that the FBI is not investigating the whereabouts of Shelley Miscavage and if they take her husbands statement that she is fine that’s a huge red flag, She does know where all the bodies are buried and probably knows enough to bring them to their knees.
To all former members, you have my sincerest thanks for sharing your story and getting out of the cult, as well as my sympathy for what you had to live through and what many had to leave behind.
This is a great article, but I’m confused about Tommy Davis. You said he blew in 2007 then was brought back for sec-checking. So after this he was re-instated into his position as a PR guy? Then blew again for good AFTER that? I’m asking because he appeared in media up to 2010ish (I think).
BTW The “church” probably wont be suing anyone anytime soon because if they do, their so called leader would be asked to testify, which wouldn’t be good for little Davey boy.
Wow. This is another great post. Although I never worked for at DM’s level, I did projects or cycles ordered by DM. I was promoted a number of times by him and have a few commendations from him in my file, Not that it matters.
It makes sense to me that areas directly below him would go into his valence as survival mode. I have also noted the attitudes of people working under him. During a Maiden Voyage week on the Freewinds, DM came down to the ER to shoot a gag video. The Gold crew was already there and I was in the middle of overhauling one of the main A/C compressors. The Gold crew were in a tone level of fear, they were clearly worried that something would go wrong. DM came up to me and asked me what would make a good shot. I told him what I thought and he liked the idea and the shot was done.
The apparancy here was that DM was a great guy but the PTS TECH showed he had cowed juniors which is an SP charastic.
(Continued).
(Comtinued) In my case, I was certainly brainwashed. I was the coxswain of lifeboat # 10 and also the Engineer on Site Port Watch. These 2 jobs conflict to some degree. The Engineer on Site has the duty of handling the Emergency and thereby keeping the ship afloat. The coxswain has the duty of mustering the crew and passengers and getting them safely off the ship before it goes down. Now as Engineer on Site I would have to abandon that post to report to the boat even though I was still needed there to buy time to get the boats lowered. I could not imagine the horror of sitting in a lifeboat watching the OTVIII ship sink. I had determined early in the game that I would not get off the ship alive unless allowed to do so. (Continued)
After I left the ship my wife had to remain aboard. She was naturally concerned about me and told me to get a cell phone and call her each day; so I did. She had to have a security guard with her when she talked to me; sometimes I talked to the guard for a minute or two. If the purpose of the guard was to ensure that she would not say anything that would cause trouble then the guard was in Treason as my wife made it clear that she was being treated badly and begged me to get her off the ship. I started writing reports to IJC Mike Ellis and had meetings with his admin Eugenia. The admin sent telexes to the ship trying to find out what was going on but never got anywhere. (Continued).
Continued;
I was upset that my wife was being held and abused on the Freewinds while I was in LA. I realized that I did not have forever to get her out of there. The only T-cell cound test I had had came in at 12 when normal is 500-1500 and anthing below 400 is the definition of AIDS. Chief Off Bill Bragg told me to report for auditing at PAC. I went there in Oct 02 and Jessica Feshback was assigned to audit me. I was audited by her for just under a week and in the last session I told her that it was pointless being audited over the PTP of my wife being held on the ship. I also mentioned to her that my father had made a vague comment regarding calling the FBI although I lied to him saying it would take time to turn over her post.(continued)
The next day after session I was seen by the Security Clearance I/C OSA WUS. She told me that my wife would arrive the next day from the ship. She was concerned about my father talking about calling the FBI and I told her not to worry about it; that I had handled him. I had “handled” him but it would been better if I did not. I picked up my wife at LAX the next day. For me, not knowing if I would ever see my family again was worse than certain death from AIDS.
I used to babysit Angie Blankenship here in Indiana, in fact I babysat all the Blankenship children – this is before the whole family moved to LA to do the SHSBC, I bet her mother was proud of her daughter’s lofty status.
Then again, her mother died in the 90’s at a fairly young age, I was shocked when I heard, she was OT 8 and highly trained, didn’t think people like Ellie were supposed to succumb to such mundane things as cancer.
She was the most dedicated scientologist I ever met…she sure carried a lot of weight here.
I would be the last one to name any names. Those who wish privacy, should be allowed. This is not a game anymore. It can hurt people.
Mike already used her name, otherwise I wouldn’t have.
The light of day, names and all, will help defeat the abuses of Scientology. It’s hole cards are secrecy and fear, especially fear that the PC folder, full of auditing and sec check details (much of them made up stories) will be revealed, complete with signatures and real names, all to populate some of the cult’s many hate websites designed from the ground up to harm those they name.
That secrecy and fear are powerful tools which actually succeed in threatening some, even those who are out. Truth, and the light of day, combat the fear by showing DM’s lies have much less sting than he would like to believe.
Does anyone really think DM will hesitate to name real names, and use PC and sec check information to attempt to cause harm? It has happened so often already it is as common as sand in the Sahara.
I don’t think those working against Scientology and its abuses can afford secrecy, no matter the shame or discomfort it might cause anyone. There are men, women, and children at this very moment suffering various forms of physical and mental abuse in the cult. It needs to be stopped, and if someone suffers collateral damage in the process, they can take comfort that they might be helping to save infants and children from years of abuse.
Yes, Mike, I thought that as well. I found this “outing” of former staff or members somewhat untoward. It is almost as if you are coercing them to take up the same stance as you, when they may not want to, for whatever reason. You complain about what the Church states about you yet you do, in principle at least, the same here.
And the crimes continue today.
Let’s not forget a couple of others – Lisa (Lirones) Huber and Wolfi Frank. When I did an interview on Oregon Public Broadcasting, both of these charmers phoned in (on OSA instructions) and denied everything I was saying. Former Int Base staff will remember Lisa as one of the most hated women on the Base – a big Miscavige supporter and abusive in her own right to her staff and rude to everyone. She only left when Miscavige inevitably turned on her. Wolfi was a quiet guy when I knew him, now out and doing OSA’s bidding.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
Watch “Leaving Neverland”! These men speaking out are telling the truth. Now the rest of the World is listening and acting on the appropriate response. Boycott his music. This is heartbreaking for me because I LOVE Michael Jackson and am a huge fan. I can’t listen to it any more and have thrown out all of the music I collected over the years. It is the right thing to do.
Watch “Surviving R Kelly” – the victims of the child molester pedophile are speaking out – the mothers of these children are applying ethics to R Kelly….now the rest of the world is boycotting his music. It is the right thing to do.
What can we do about Scientology? We can LEARN ^^^^^ from these two recent situations with these entities that violate the law and use their power and money to get away with it.
Watch Leah Remini and Mike Rinder – Scientology; the Aftermeth on A&E, watch “Going Clear”, “My Scientology Movie” and read the hundreds of documentaries and books from ex members. Everyone speaking out is telling the truth. Scientology is hurting people. What do we do? Boycott Scientologist’s, Scientology and anything they are involved with. THAT will force the “still ins” to LOOK and find out why people are upset with Scientology. This is how we get justice. BILLBOARDS next to every Ideal Org – Watch A&E – Leah Remini Scientology; the Aftermath etc.
Nicely said. Thank you.
This is an interesting and meaty subject, i.e., boycotting the artistic work of those whose political or religious affiliations with which one does not agree.
I’m of two minds on this.
On the one hand, my emotions propel me to agree.
On the other hand, logic forbids it.
An example:
Back in the day, when Michaelangelo sculpted the statue of David and painted the Sistine Chapel and so forth, there were no papparazzi. Nobody followed him around with cameras prying into the intimate details of his life for public consumption. Not much is known about his personal life, his character. Was he a faithful husband? A good father? Was he a truthful person?
Now, does anyone really CARE?
Maybe he was a disaster as a husband and an uncaring Dad. Maybe he went home at night and beat puppies. Maybe his idea of fun was drowning newborn kittens and maybe when he was 14 he raped his little sister. Maybe, when you got to know him, aside from being an exceptional artist, maybe he was simply a despicable person.
All right, for argument’s sake let’s say some dox get unearthed and we find out that ALL of the above is TRUE.
What do we do? How do we handle this?
So we boycott Michaelangelo’s art? Not go to the Louvre or to whatever museums have his stuff? Do we take it a step further and pressure these museums to get rid of his paintings and sculptures, and boycott them and castigate them on social media as well?
Look, I’m just being outrageous here and I’m NOT btw equating Michaelangelo’s artistic genius with that of Tom Cruise or John Travolta.
I’m just making the point that art is art, and the character and personal behavior of the artist is not his art.
Its easy for me to forego seeing a Tom Cruise film. I don’t think much of him as an actor.
Ditto Kirstie Alley. No talent, no brains, no looks and she’s about as amusing as a blob of mayonnaise on a new silk blouse. Ditto Jenna Elfman. Utterly forgettable.
But Elizabeth Moss and Laura Prepon? Different stories! I LIKE their work. I think they’re excellent at their craft. But now I can’t see anything they’re in because indirectly my money is helping to support Scientology?
That means I shouldn’t have seen “The Girl On The Train” because Prepon had a featured role in that.
And I like John Travolta as an actor and a performer. What can I tell you? Sue me, I like him. One of my all time favorite movies is “Michael” I think its a marvelous little film and he was perfect in it as the slovenly archangel Michael come to earth for the last time to have a little fun.
And then there’s Clint Eastwood – so talented as a director, so terrific as Dirty Harry, such an icon – and a die hard Trump lover…OMG. Is this fair? 🙂 But look, the man’s politics are his politics. What if I had NO idea how he voted? Must I know this? Plus he was probably a lousy, unfaithful husband and a not the greatest father back in the day, according to his eldest daughter. Well, so what?
Shirley MacLaine is an amazing talent, I think She can act, sing, dance, tell an amusing story, write. She can make you laugh, she can make you cry; she can be beautiful, plain, pathetic, or a bitch. Talk about versatile! Her daughter claims she was a bad mother who neglected her and didn’t care about anything except her career. Probably true. So what? There are thousands, possibly millions of bad mothers out there who don’t give a damn about their kids, with no talent at all.
Long winded point being: art is art – one either likes it or doesn’t. I think that art should, in all fairness, be judged on its merits (a very personal thing) and kept separate from the artist who created the art even if they’re Scientologists who will pour almost every cent they make into David Miscavige’s coffers.
My long-winded 2 cents. Feel free to disagree.
Aquamarine, Wonderful post! I’ve been struggling with these same issues for a while now. I’ve wanted to say something about the insanity that has ensued after discovering that several beloved artists have turned out to have been sexual predators.
But I could never have said it as well as you did. I would love to see you send those thoughts into some national publications, like the NY Times etc.
Wow, thank you, Skyler. High praise, indeed, and I’m not at all sure I deserve it, but thank you. And yes, all the good films that Harvey Weinstein produced – the ones I haven’t seen yet – can I not see them now that I know that he was a disgusting predator who used his industry power relentlously to manipulate vulnerable actresses into putting out? The man did executive produce a number of excellent films. A real dilemma with my emotions pulling me one way and common sense the other. Food for thought: how many Renaissance artists’s work would REVOLT me if I knew who they had been as PEOPLE, i.e., with their families, friends, etc.? Museums might go out of business! Van Gogh was certainly a whacko, cutting off his ear. A real nut job. But I love Van Gogh’s art. Morbidly beautiful, wild stuff. What about Titian? He certainly had this thing for redheads. Was he misbehaving with those vulnerable gingers? Was he the Harvey Weinstein of the Renaissance artistic set? Enquiring minds want to know. OK, enough of this. I’ll end by saying THANK GOD and ALL THE SAINTS that I’ve NEVER seen “That 70’s Show” or ANYTHING that Danny Masterson’s been in. And I’m not going to! Because if he’s a good actor with talent, I doan wanna know! I’m in enough torment already. Someone, please, tell me this…person…has no talent. Please? Lie if you have to. Convince me. I’ll believe you :).
Aqua,
No talent. Horrible actor, not worth the time or energy keeping your eyes open long enough to actually watch it. probably the worst hack actor alive. you missed NOTHING!!!
hope that helps! : )
Kat
Immeasurably, Kat 🙂 Thank you 🙂
I am always interested in this line of thought. Because I have not made a decision on it.
Is Art is the only thing in the world where we take the work and leave the person. And if so, why?
Would we do it for police? For teachers? For industrialists? Or is it only art?
I don’t buy Apple products, partly because I find the products meh, partly because I am not fond of the company… but mostly because I despised Steve Jobs. But Microsoft has a history that isn’t much better. I won’t eat Chik-Fil-A because of whom the owners give their money to, but I don’t hate people who eat there anyway.
But I still remember boycotting companies that did business with apartheid South Africa.
Will I listen to R. Kelly? Never – not since his marriage to Aaliyah became public knowledge in the 90’s- and no amount of appreciation for his artistic work will change that. And yet I will watch movies put out by Miramax. Because Weinstein’s name and power were all over those, but he’s not onscreen, so it’s a step away. But is it really?
Always interesting this.
gtsix,
I think the question of Art is one of those that will never be completely answered. Like Aqua, I tend to divorce the person from the piece. I think its because it speaks to us on another level- usually emotional rather than logical or intellectual. It is also a very intimate part of our lives- no one can ‘make’ you appreciate art on a visceral level- you either love it, appreciate it for its beauty, or dislike it. You can appreciate art on an intellectual level without the visceral level, but if it connects on that visceral level, turning your back on it is difficult.
We tend to separate it out completely because it is completely separate from the individual. For example, I will fall back to Van Gogh. You can look at a painting from Van Gogh and make your own interpretations that are on a completely separate plane from the artist (there is no personal connection between you and the artist- there is a personal connection between you and the painting).
For actors, they are playing a part- you are not connecting to the actor, you are connecting to the story or the character. As for music- its the same- your soul may recognize something in the music while your brain rebels against the singer. they are two completely different wells of emotion.
it is easier to boycott businesses, because that is purely an emotionless decision. Your emotions are not usually involved in choosing a cell phone, so your brain recognizes that its OK to boycott a brand or company for purely unemotional reasons.
I have no issues boycotting some artists because I truly do not appreciate their art. I may have a harder time if it is an artist I connected with on a deeper level, simply because of that visceral connection. I don’t look at it as supporting the person. I look at it as supporting the art. I really hope that made sense! (and I really don’t enjoy Tom Cruise’s acting, so I have no problem not watching his films)
Kat
Yeah… I am not so certain on the divorce between the art and the person.
Leni Riefenstahl didn’t get that artistic separation. Any Rand can’t be separated. R. Kelly has gotten it… and look what that did.
Like I said… I just dont know why artists get a pass.
Ymmv, of course
Richard,
I get it- totally.
Kat, you explained it perfectly.
For example, it was easy for me to write off Bill O’Reilly when it came out that he had sexually harassed so many women and Fox had paid them off. Easy because I’d never watched him anyway – not agreeing with his politics and disliking his smug, condescending, manner. Just repulsive to me. Ditto Roseanne Barr when Disney shitcanned her. Repulsive in every way that its possible to be. Both of them, not because they’re Republicans or their Republican viewpoints, but because I didn’t like THEM.
But then, when Charlie Rose was nailed as having long been a sexual predator – oooh, that was hard for me! I DID I like him. I liked his manner, his ability to make distinctions, the way he interviewed people. Charlie Rose – OH NO! This cannot be! My boyfriend ,a Republican who voted for Trump, teases me by saying I’m in denial because I’m a Socialist.
Well, I’m not a Socialist but I liked Charlie Rose and I didn’t WANT him to be this awful person, that’s all. This is just an example of EMOTION influencing that which should NOT be influenced by emotion.
“Is art the only thing in the world where we take the work and leave the person?”
I would doubt that.
I don’t know anything about my drop off laundry/ dry cleaner except her place does a good job, she’s polite, she knows my name and she delivers.
The man who makes the pizza at my favorite place – is he a good person? Does he cheat on his taxes? What kind of a husband and father is he? Does he even have a family? I have no idea. He makes great, thin crust pizza.
People on the other end of the phone, i.e., the credit card representative who alerted me to fraud on my card and was so patient and helpful, the sales rep for my last catalogue order who did her job so well – what are THEY “really like”? Must I know?
Unless someone lives in an EXTEMELY isolated area, one is dealing, day to day, hour to hour, with people who are doing their jobs, that’s all. One does not necessarily need to KNOW them or anything ABOUT them – does one? For, if THAT were the case, how would ANYTHING get DONE?
Aqua,
Great post- we really don’t know anything about the majority of the people we interact with on a daily basis. Kinda scary!
Kat
Which misses the point I was making.
Once you DO know, is it only art that gets such a pass?
If you do know the local pizza man beats his wife, do you buy his pizza?
If the policeman attends nazi rallies, would you want him to be the officer investigating a case you have?
If you do know the woman who runs the dry cleaner is embezzling money from her business, do you continue to use her service?
If you do know the head of the security company you were looking to hire for an event has 1 murder conviction and 3 assault charges pending… do you hire him anyway?
If you know the teacher has a sexual assault conviction, would you leave a child alone in their presence?
If the taxi driver is a known heroin addict, do you get in his cab?
Like I said, I am always interested in this idea that artists get a pass. I don’t know if I agree with the “the art is separate from the person who created it” idea. It can be treated that way. It can also not be treated that way.
No worries, we differ on this. Such is life.
Gtsix,
This is one of those situational ethics questions that has no absolute right or wrong answer. I would also think it is highly individualized and impossible for one person to answer for another. My heart would say boycott them all and try to publicly expose the crime. However, intellectually, I know that that would be far too much for any one person to do alone. It would also create monstrous issues with the economy (j/k). I think it boils down to how you personally felt about the situation. I would also say that for art, while Rand is inext icably tied to her work, many artists are not. That likely makes it easier- how much do you know about the artist behind each painting in a museum or gallery? I guess if you knew the truth it could negatively effect your feelings- I don’t know. Just my 2 cents
I think an additional reason many of them do not speak up is because they still believe their “eternity” is at stake if they cross the little guy at the top. Brain washing isn’t easily overcome if you don’t actively work at it.
Or they still think LRH is coming back to put DM back in his box.
I don’t know, Mike, I’m inclined to forgive the silent ones. Maybe because I have only spoken up in the comments sections, not too brave myself.
I got out before the cash payouts started, or they somehow skipped me. But I can see how the recipient of a cash payout, with all the videoed, seemingly legal non-disclosure agreements, could come to the conclusion that they have a legal obligation.
It needs to be made clear publicly that a non-disclosure agreement made under duress, even with a cash payment, is only as legally binding as the willingness of the injured party to sue. Since the Debbie Cook fiasco Scientology has not tried to enforce any of these non-disclosure agreements. If they could they would.
They also can’t enforce the Freeloader debts.
The legal hold they pretend to have is constructed of tissue paper. You might call it a tissue of lies. No offense intended to the essential tissue products that keep out society free of all manner of diseases.
Many are probably afraid to speak out because of the nasty lies in their Scientology files. Scientology is definitely not afraid to use “Confidential Priest-Penitent” information in attacks. But these attack sites and videos don’t have much affect on society at large. If your prospective employer comes across one they are more likely to have a chuckle about the over-the-top exaggeration than to reject your application.
If you speak up and get targeted by dirty tricks this may be less true. It does require a bit of courage to speak up when you know you will be accused of unforgiveable and unspeakable crimes for which you have no defense.
Another reason for untoward silence is the threat of disconnection. If they have business contacts, relatives, friends who are still under Hubbard’s deadly spell it is hard for them to speak out. Knowing that spouses, siblings, children may be ripped away. An old trick of high-control groups of all kinds throughout history.
So while I wish some of those with actionable knowledge of serious crimes at the highest level would at least speak under confidentiality to the authorities, I am not expecting the silent ones to arise in public any time soon. Too much is at stake. As Scientology becomes more of a late-night joke and their numbers dwindle it will become less dangerous to speak up.
All praise to the courage of those who have spoken out so far. You are making it easier for the rest of us every day. Some day the islands will become the sea.
I have an immense amount of respect for those that have experienced/witnessed the abuse in the CoS and have chosen to speak out, as it does come at a very high price. I also have a deep humbling amount of respect for the X members that choose to remain silent because as I said speaking out comes at a very high price. In time, as the CoS continues to crumble, It will become less frightening to tell your story..
Mike, one more to add to the list of names of SO who saw things, left and are not talking is: Arnold Huber. I don’t know what his post was when he was RPFed, but he spent over 7 years in the RPF in Hemet, saw the DM abuse, and was there for the infamous Musical Chairs incident. Yet he left and is not speaking out. I suspect Arnold is UTR.
“with all the videoed, seemingly legal non-disclosure agreements, could come to the conclusion that they have a legal obligation. ”
No Bruce, all those people have watched enough of the stuff from Mike, Leah, and other news and media outlets to now know that they have NO legal obligations from the BS NDA crap. Including freeloader debts.
Bruce, I agree. scientology was a lot different prior to the miscavige takeover. miscavige got the IRS to backdown by going after individuals who worked for the IRS with full page ads. He has also managed to destroy the OT levels. He is insane and has the cash to make life miserable for everyone. I respect all those who have come forward to publicly announce the abuse of that organization. I was in. I am out. I never experienced any abuse as so many who have come forward. I am not UTR but I never publish my name in any public forum. This blog has been taken over by so many never-ins who go on and on about things they know nothing about. Think about all the people who believe in stupid shit and don’t get attacked for any of it.
Peabody,
I am a never in. I also know that nothing was done about the abuses to human beings until people like Mike spoke up. The disdain you present for “never-ins” is very perplexing.
Do you believe Hubbard will come back and fix everything? That ship sailed a long time ago and will never be coming back no matter how much you wish it. Instead of complaining about people going “on and on” about things they “know nothing about” maybe you should look at ways you can help stop the abuses going on inside this cult. I cannot find a single thing redeeming about the cult, and someone with inside information should be trying to be helpful instead of discouraging others to stand up against a cult that takes advantage of everyone and hides behind religious laws. Shame on you for belittling those trying to fight. As for people believing in silly things- yes, people believe a lot of things. If and when they start abusing them, I hope they stand up and are heard.
The people who are trying to separate Miscavige and Hubbard are trying to keep their blinders on. It won’t work as Hubbard is the root cause- you could easily argue that Hubbard created Miscavige in his own image. If the IRS has made the group into a church under Hubbard, I have to think the abuse would have happened under him.
You can’t have it both ways- the blog is called “something can be done about it” not “something can be done about Miscavige but only if you leave LRH out of it”. I was under the assumption that the purpose was to stop abuses, regardless of whether the person was in Scientology or is a “wog”. If I’m wrong maybe Mike can let me know.
I have no disdain for the never-ins.
I do not believe that Hubbard will come back to fix anything.
I have no first hand knowledge of any abuse, therefore, I am unable to comment about it.
That’s about as far as I got since I can never make any sense of your comments.
Peabody, this blog has a system for enabling people to reply to a specific post. When you click on the “Reply” link under someone’s post, your reply is shown in a window that is wholly contained within and directly below the window to which you replied. So when you said, “I can never make any sense of your comments”, it appears very clearly that you are replying to Kat LaRue’s post. In addition, Kat’s post begins with your name which is the common way that people here address others. So, it’s very hard to draw any conclusion other than you were replying to Kat’s post.
But, I find it impossible to believe you actually intended to reply to Kat for the following reasons. First, she has only been posting here for a very short time. Second, in my opinion, hrt posts demonstrate she is highly articulate and extremely intelligent. Besides which, for a “Never In”, Kat shows a terrific dedication to participate in the struggle to put an end to this cult and I believe most everyone here would agree this cult is one of the greatest evils in this world.
Kat certainly does not need anyone here to defend her and I must apologize to her because I believe my attempt to speak up for her will just cause her embarrassment. But I just can’t help myself. She certainly does not need anyone to defend her. Kat’s posts clearly speak for themselves and she certainly doesn’t need any help from me or anyone else. But, if you did intend to direct your remarks to Kat, I want to tell you , “you may not understand her posts, but that has nothing to do with their quality. In my opinion, you owe Kat an apology because almost no one here writes posts that are more clearly written than hers.”
Skyler,
I will always appreciate someone who has my back : ) I think that, as most of us are fighting for a common cause, we should always stick up for each other. I greatly appreciate your support.
Kat
Kat, reading your posts always seem to inspire me.
When you visit DC, if it is convenient, I hope you get to visit The Jefferson Memorial. I just read a quote of his the other day. He said, “I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny”.
That quote reminded me of you. Please be careful you don’t get into any fights with the Scamologists in DC. You will be severley outnumbered.
I’ll defend Kat whether she wants me too or not. Having never been in, she doesn’t know much about Scientology, the subject, sure. So what? She cares. its obvious that the INJUSTICE she has perceived occurring in Scientology has struck some sort of chord within her, has pierced a raw nerve. She’s curious. She asks questions and they’re intelligent questions. She cares. We don’t know why she cares about the victims of Scientology but then, who cares why she cares? She has her reasons! Good lord, she writes LETTERS to people about Scientology’s abuses! Congressmen and media network people. We should be on our knees praying for a hundred more never-ins like Kat to be on this blog reading, posting, communicating to the outside world about the cult abuses, caring. My 2.
Bravo Aquamarine!
Thanks Aqua and Skyler! I want you to know that I appreciate the support. Unfortunately, I tend to be very stubborn, so y’all are stuck with me until its over!
Kat
Hahahaha! So someone else has now observed that Kat Rueful is out to make a name for herself by letting rip without engaging her psychologist’s “brain” and the fawning acolytes are now rallying around in her defense. She adds nothing to any conversation and simply regurgitates the same old stuff and clouds and peppers it even further with her “I imagine Hubbard…” and “There is also the possibility that…” (add in some sort of nonsense) lines.
Mike, could it be that she is trying to take over the blog! Perhaps she is really OSA? (Well, I am accused of it constantly so I feel justified in mentioning it – good for the goose and the gander and all that!) Or is she angling to take over from Leah? I mean just at that sly looking picture of her! Not that I want to 3rd Party anyone so nice and concerned as Kat is – noooooo! Hahaha!
Foolproof – A university psychology professor who participated on another blog for a while said she thought auditors would be good psychologists since they were interested in helping people. She also suggested that some, possibly many, of the concepts on the lower grade chart cross referenced mainstream psychology and ex Scientologists becoming psychologists would need to redefine Scn concepts to fit psychology terminology. Hubbard’s visions of the distant past and universal cosmology enter the realm of belief and obviously would not be accepted.
Not all psychologists are alike and not all Scientologists are alike, my Cosmic Cognition for the day!
Peabody,
You posted “This blog has been taken over by so many never-ins who go on and on about things they know nothing about. Think about all the people who believe in stupid shit and don’t get attacked for any of it.” yet you say that you have no disdain for never ins? really?? Maybe you should try reading entire posts instead of stopping when you get to a part you don’t agree with.
Or maybe you should post something that isn’t just a hyperbolic regurgitation – or what you “imagine” something to be?
‘Instead of complaining about people going “on and on” about things they “know nothing about” maybe you should look at ways you can help stop the abuses going on inside this cult.’
Are those the only options? I think it’s fair to say that Pb has a right to an opinion without being chastised for some perceived lack of altruism. This isn’t a scoreboard for the virtuous. Arguments should stand or fall based on logical reasoning, not by strawmen and appeals to emotion.
‘I cannot find a single thing redeeming about the cult…’
Then try. It might help you better understand those you claim to be fighting for. As well as a % of people who read and/or comment on this blog. Not everyone sees things in black and white.
Mwestern,
I looked very hard. I’ve read multiple books and articles, as well as court cases, blogs, posts, and Dianetics. I have tried hard to find something redeeming, but I cannot. LRH was like a snake oil salesman- except he was selling “eternity” instead of a cure for baldness. His brand of con hurts people- it doesn’t help. I get why people were sucked in. I get that he used a “self help and salvage the planet” in order to make the grift more alluring. I beleve people originally joined because they truly thought it had value. But if you are truthful with yourself, you will see that nothing he taught worked. Ever. Period. How is anything that helped nothing and caused misery to so many have any upside. Without using the distorted “statistics”, name something that actually benefited anything. I get that some individuals may have believed they benefitted, but that was a side effect that doesn’t show a redeemable thing to or for human kind.
Kat – “But if you are truthful with yourself, you will see that nothing he taught worked. Ever. Period.”
Sorry but some people got some lasting benefits and gained some worthwhile knowledge. They would have been unaware of the overall picture when they did so. As a psychologist you should be aware that telling someone their entire previous reality was false would not be beneficial.
Richard,
Richard,
I have repeatedly acknowledged that individuals may have gotten something from the cult-even though, IMO, those positives were most likely attainable without the cult and would have occurred without all of the hoops that members were made to jump through. I am stating that the entire premise was, and is, flawed. The planet will not be ‘cleared’ there is no such thing. No one will gain superpowers. There is no Xenu, OT VIII was made up by Hubbard, He wasn’t the source of anything except angst and lies. Hubbard wrote nothing of any truth- its all been disproved and shown to be unusable gibberish. THAT is what Im saying. There s nothing redeemable in there that I can find.
In Scn your point of view would be called a “fixed opinion”.
Telling a still in scientologist considering leaving, “Admit you are/were a brainwashed fool and move on.” would not be beneficial. Deprogramming oneself is a gradual process.
Exes on the blogs continue to use Scn terms since most of them reflect factual occurrences. Hubbard renamed everything to make Scn seem new and original. If you list a dozen standard psychology terms I might be able to name a Scn equivalent for most of them. (not a challenge – laughter)
P.S. I’m not trying to make any big point. The current Church of Scientology is what it is. Just some chatter on a blog.
Richard,
I get that. The people still in need to go slowly before they take more solid steps toward freedom. But I still cannot agree that there are any valid points to Scientology 🙂 ( I also love the fact that most things I find out about Scientology are complete “fixed opinions” – case in point- If I even mention mental health and medication, I get rabid comments….)
Kat
Kat, of course it didn’t work. Those who have “left” and still believe it worked are simply still brainwashed.
When you meet one it is impossible to have a logical discussion as they have a HUGE roadblock to using logic with the subject of scamology. Your discussions will turn circular as their speak via their brainwashing.
Wynski,
I think I’m seeing that…although I could just be getting dizzy since I’m running in a circle…which apparently means I’ll be OTVIII in no time!
Haha! Wynski knows it works – especially the MWH tech eh Wyn?
“I looked very hard. I’ve read multiple books and articles, as well as court cases, blogs, posts, and Dianetics. I have tried hard to find something redeeming, but I cannot.”
Try harder. To deny the possibility that any aspect of scientology has even the teeniest, tiniest degree of therapeutic value is just as extreme and absolutist as the scientologist who claims “scientology works!” If nothing else, you are denying the potency of the placebo effect. Which some psychologists would argue is all any talk therapy can ultimately offer.
“But if you are truthful with yourself, you will see that nothing he taught worked. Ever. Period.”
Define “worked”. I am not in any way suggesting scientology does what Hubbard and his believers cosmically claim. But I am open to the possibility that certain elements may have some degree of therapeutic value, however small. I base that not just on (albeit selective) personal/subjective experience but on literature available regarding the techniques Hubbard himself appropriated.
“How is anything that helped nothing and caused misery to so many have any upside.”
Flawed premise. You have not yet established scientology is unhelpful.
If you choose to see things only in black and white then you will remain blind to the shades of grey. It is a refusal of nuance. How can you begin to understand the world and those within it if you aren’t open to complexity?
“Without using the distorted “statistics”, name something that actually benefited anything. I get that some individuals may have believed they benefitted, but that was a side effect that doesn’t show a redeemable thing to or for human kind.”
If someone is liberated from suicidal ideation, overcomes trauma, a loss, a phobia, or simply feels more empowered from use of scientology techniques, how can you reasonably claim they didn’t “benefit”?
Or are you suggesting the power of belief (and, by extension, religious faith) has no redeeming value to mankind?
Corruption and abuse, religious or otherwise, must be exposed and eradicated. If nothing else, we most certainly agree on that. But if you find Scientology so irredeemable, I’d be keen to know whether you feel the same about Catholicism. Or Islam?
Mwestern,
I will try harder to find something positive about Scientology just as hard as you tried to find something positive about psychiatry and medications. NO THANKS. I’ve been around this one sided non- debate with you and it is a complete and total waste of time and energy. You are welcome to your fixed opinion. Keep it and I wish you happiness in your stagnant state of being. Ive made an effort to understand something I was unfamiliar with- have you?
mwesten , I tried. From Class XIIs al the way down. If YOU are making a claim of value then it is up to YOU to prove. Not up to others to prove a negative.
So PROVE the claims YOU are making or STFU. EXTRAORDINARY claims REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY evidence.
Logical Form:
I cannot prove that X exists, so you prove that it doesn’t.
If you can’t, X exists.
LEARN LOGIC
Reply to Wynski above: Firstly no one is going to stoop so low as to bother trying to “prove” anything to anyone, especially to someone who is biased anyway and wouldn’t accept said proof. Scientology is not in a tone level of propitiation.
Working in Tech and Qual for years I have seen many many people who have changed their lives for the better because of the technology of Dianetics and Scientology. For just one minor (?) example I have seen people who were quiet and somewhat introverted who – after they had Grade 0 were totally different – extroverted, talkative and very happy that they were so now. I wouldn’t have let them attest otherwise. The results were quite objective and others agreed that they were observable in the physical universe. Is there another therapy that can achieve that? (We know the answer to that rhetorical question already don’t we?) I could list probably dozens if not hundreds of examples if I really thought about it, as could many others commenting here.
So, I recommend Grade 2 for you! Then you can get some “relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life” , on all 4 flows as well! Cool eh?
@Kat, “I will try harder to find something positive about Scientology just as hard as you tried to find something positive about psychiatry and medications.”
Huh? We have never debated the merits of psychiatry. I have asked you to support your proposition that mental illnesses (you never specified which) have been established as having a distinct biological cause. You refused to do so. That is all.
If you’re genuinely interested in what I believe to be the positives of psychiatry, you only have to ask.
“I’ve been around this one sided non-debate with you and it is a complete and total waste of time and energy. You are welcome to your fixed opinion.”
What opinion is that? Please read what I have stated, and without prejudice. I am simply asking you be open to a possibility. That is all.
As someone who claims to be well-versed in the psychological sciences your ignorance/dismissal of the placebo effect is comical. I suggest you refer back to it. (Look into cognitive bias whilst you’re at it).
“Keep it and I wish you happiness in your stagnant state of being. Ive made an effort to understand something I was unfamiliar with- have you?”
You claim you’ve “made an effort to understand something unfamiliar” yet, in the same breath, openly admit your mind is closed. Wtf?
I have suggested digging down into the shades of grey between two absolutes. Or at least be open to the possibility of nuance. Yet, to you, I am “one sided” and have a “fixed opinion”. Oh my. ?
mwestern,
Using your logic, you could say that the Nazis weren’t all bad because Germany was united for a time and some individuals profited…looking at the overall cost of the gains to those individuals, compared to the actual cost in human life and the aspects of that regime…yes, you could find a small positive for a single individual, or a handful of individuals- that does not make it a good thing overall.
on the other hand, why would anyone try to find a positive in that scenario for the sake of argument??? To make a neo-nazi feel validation for his choices? that is not a valid ‘good’. Think about it like this- a neo-nazi thinks Hitler was a veritable god and that the holocaust was made up as a way to vilify Nazis and Hitler. how is this thinking much different? Hubbard was a con man who twisted people to believe he was the best and brightest, the most accomplished and the most talented. The all knowing font of wisdom. He taught people to believe that psychiatry was made up to control others and to destroy his little empire. is any of this opening your eyes to reality? Didn’t think so. like I said, a complete waste of time and space on this blog.
@Wynski, please read what I have said. I made no claim X exists. I stated I was open to the possibility that elements of scientology may have a degree of therapeutic value – even if said value is entirely rooted in the placebo effect.
The therapeutic potential of the placebo effect is well established.
I believe an understanding of the placebo effect may provide insight into the alleged benefits scientologists claim.
I didn’t realise this was such a controversial position.
And no, the burden of proof lies with the claimant – regardless of whether it is positive or negative. One can support a negative claim with evidence of absence (≠ absence of evidence).
Like it or not, scientology’s nonsensical testimonials are evidence of something. The power of belief, if nothing else.
mwestern,
To use Hubbard’s own words:
“The reasonable man quite ordinarily overlooks the fact that people from 2.0 down have no traffic with reason and cannot be reasoned with as one would reason with a 3.0. There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the tone scale , neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes . The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow. Adders are safe bedmates compared to people on the lower bands of the tone scale. Not all the beauty nor the handsomeness nor artificial social value nor property can atone for the vicious damage such people do to sane men and women. The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered. It is not necessary to produce a world of clears in order to have a reasonable and worthwhile social order; it is only necessary to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down, either by processing them enough to get their tone level above the 2.0 line — a task which, indeed, is not very great, since the amount of processing in many cases might be under fifty hours, although it might also in others be in excess of two hundred — or simply quarantining them from the society. A Venezuelan dictator once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country” — Science of Survival: Prediction of Human Behavior by L. Ron Hubbard
He is talking about “deleting” people, much like Hitler did. This is what you are asking me to find something redeemable about? The person who wrote this has nothing redeemable to say.
Excerpt taken from:https://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/02/02/the-horriying-real-secret-of-scientology-is-genocide/
@Kat. False equivalence. Argumentum ad numerum. You are suggesting you can determine moral absolutes by counting numbers (and using utilitarianism to justify black and white thinking seems ever so familiar).
If 51% of the planet enslaves the remaining 49%, is that morally “good”? How do you even define what’s “good” or “bad”? Do you have the authority to define such terms for others? What makes the greatest number so important?
What % of scientologists are abused, do you know? Is it higher or lower than those who believe they got/get something out of it? What makes those numbers in any way comparable? If the abuses ended tomorrow, would you still consider scientology a moral evil? Why? How?
Again, I’m curious, if you find the subjective value of scientology so insignificant/irredeemable, what is your assessment of catholicism and/or islam?
“He is talking about “deleting” people, much like Hitler did. This is what you are asking me to find something redeemable about?”
Ad hoc fallacy. Now you are suggesting the value of a religion can be reduced to moral interpretation of a single paragraph of scripture. If that’s the case, I suggest you pick up a Bible or a Quran and try again.
And no, I am asking that you be open to the idea that an individual undergoing therapy may actually get something from it – even if said benefit is rooted entirely in self belief.
I am asking you to consider the placebo effect, the power of belief, of religious faith, and then try to argue its absolute lack of worth.
That despite the exploitation and abuses of the catholic church, or the murders and oppression perpetrated by muslims, there are others who still find value through the practice of these faiths.
Lot of out-of-context and literally understood nonsense here implying Hubbard was a 1950s version of Heinrich Himmler. And yet what does society or rather psychiatry/psychology and the justice system do to the anti-social personality? They stick them or rather “quarantine” them in lunatic asylums and prisons so that they can’t damage the social personalities and society. Or let them out to run amok when they feel like it. Or damage them further with their so-called “treatments”.
The only thing is, Hubbard really and acutely and accurately pointed out the attributes of such people and so those sociopaths who escape this “quarantining” by their sly means, don’t like the fact that Hubbard exposes their activities quite clearly – and so rant and rail against Hubbard. Oh! I’ve just had a cognition here about some of the people commenting here! Well, what dya know! My needle is floating!
Can you explain then (in your own words of course and without looking it up – be honest) what an engram is then? Or a secondary? How about a lock? The reason I ask is that I had a friend once (Israeli tank commander in the Lebanon war so he was no theetie weetie) who stated that he had read Dianetics and didn’t think much of it etc. So I asked him then “what is an engram?” He gave me the same puzzled look (like Brian and Terra gave to their supervisors – haha!) and went very quiet and then smirked…
Another friend of mine who gets auditing now and then has a partner who stated “I don’t like Hubbard’s writing style!” Upon inquiring as to what is this style I got some sort of waffle but she actually couldn’t answer. My friend told me later that she had never read the book.
So, what’s an engram then, let’s hear an “expert” opinion!
Foolproof,
Engram, secondary and lock are made up nonsense that Hubbard created to control the cult. End of story. You are asking for a definition of something that doesn’t exist. Define xgdrfehfyhvjgikg- you cant because it doesn’t have a definition.
People would be stupid to try and explain what doesn’t exist, “in their own words”.
In your own words Logicproof what does hillringthal, polisticalphony and yelkerly mean?
Haha! Yeah, yeah! Now we get the real story, even if indirectly stated. So to couch it in your simple terms, there are no traumatic incidents, and people don’t experience moments of loss, and people don’t feel ill or whatever when reminded of something. So of course these things conveniently “don’t exist” for you as your fellow psychologists don’t have a clue as to what to do about them, do you? Or you have perhaps misunderstood your psychology textbooks? Or both? Next you will be saying that people are just their brains! Lordy!
LMAO! “destroyed the OT levels”? What are you smoking Peabody? The OT levels have been pure crap and a scam from day one. Boy, you need mental help fast.
Peabody, I don’t see what this has to do with Miscavige. From some signs I saw, and from what I’ve since found out from asking old-timers who were in key positions, things actually began to change for the worse in the late 60s to early 70s, long before Miscavige even started as a wet behind the ears CMO messenger.
In the 1965 issue of KSW, at the time Hubbard was about to go on the ships and create the Sea Org, he wrote that “In all the years I have been engaged in research I have kept my comm lines wide open for research data. I once had the idea that a group could evolve truth. A third of a century has thoroughly disabused me of that idea.” Clearly he intended to take Scientology in a more centralized and authoritarian, if not even totalitarian, direction. Then in his 1970 note to the issue he writes that that “Within 5 years after the issue of this PL with me off the lines, violation had almost destroyed orgs,” so obviously Scientology was having significant problems – and to him, even more in need of being restructured and reined in.
From what I can tell, Hubbard’s answer was to use the Sea Org to establish control of all of Scientology, which spread gradually over more than a decade. Even by the early to mid-1970s, when Miscavige was still back in school in Philadelphia, there are reports of some of the more aggressive – and financially successful – missions using Sea Org style tactics like “gang bang sec checks,” and “hard sell” tactics such setting members up to borrow against assets and go into debt to pay for courses, that now get associated with the current regime. And yet some orgs and missions managed to carry on for a while in the old, idealistic, even collaborative style that Hubbard was by then trying to rein in, so some people had very different experiences of Scientology.
It seems to me that the evidence is that Miscavige was more like a symptom, or even the agent for Hubbard’s hardening approach, than the real cause of changes, though since his rise coincided with the implementation of Hubbard’s hardened approach, it’s easy to mistake him as the source. And if Miscavige destroyed the OT levels, then why haven’t independent orgs been successfully delivering them, producing the promised abilities and taking the world by storm? The failures of all the various independent efforts around the planet, show that Scientology was doomed to whither away due to its own shortcomings, and a changing world around it that was no longer interested in its type of pie-in-the-sky theories.
Peacemaker, your post is a keeper, full of good dates and good information, not to mention good analysis.
As for others who might think never-ins do not know what they are talking about, just realize where their information come from. It comes from common, reliable sources with names like Jon Atack, Russel Miller, Mike Rinder, Tony Ortega, Paulette Cooper, Leah Rimini, Gerry Armstrong, Jason Beghe, Tom DeVocht, John Sweeney, Amy Scobee, Debbie Cook, Lawrence Wright, and even Elron’s own son, plus many, many others. They knew what they were talking about.
Add to that the reliable information available from those who have no interest in Hubbard directly, such as the authors of classics which describe high control cults: Jay Lifton, Edgar Schein, Joost A.M. Meerloo, and William Sargant.
To say a never-in doesn’t know what they are talking about is to deny a host of people who do know what they are talking about. It’s like saying a person can’t learn to drive because they have never driven before – nonsense.
AA, to add to your good points, I’d add that most of Hubbard’s most important early collaborators, the technical wizards of Dianetics and Scientology, who collectively are probably more responsible for the “tech” than he was, ended up becoming disillusioned, and provided the basis for the criticism, and protest of abuses, that continues to this day: Dr. Winter, Volney Mathison, Jack Horner, John McMaster the supposed first “clear” and Hubbard-designated “Pope” of Scientology, David Mayo, and so on. Those outside of Scientology, actually have access to better sources of information and more expertise on the subject, than those still in – or loyalists who have ignored the accounts of former insiders with knowledge of what really went on behind the scenes.
Peacemaker said: “It seems to me that the evidence is that Miscavige was more like a symptom”.
At this point I have come to the same conclusion, as hard as that is to do. Maybe when Sarge reported that LRH said just before he died “he had failed” this is what he meant, because in reality he did fail, the current scene testifies to that. Without doing a full analysis, it very much looks like the abuse came from a combination of LRHs personal behaviour and some policies, which may have worked under a “benign dictator”, but in the hands of our current nut, became a tool of havoc.
I skipped much of the abuse talked about on this blog,I was much too volatile to take excessive crap, and it wasnt in me to dish it out, so I became one of the many who were not called to be in the SO and it genuinely upsets me to see it go the way it has.
In saying this, there is no way I would want my money back for what I have done on the Bridge and I hope a way forward is found for those who want it.
It took me quite a while to put it all together, but I think starting with Hubbard’s “Affirmations” of the late 1940s, such as “Material things are yours for the asking. Men are your slaves.”, and then running through the brutality and fascism in “Responsibilities of Leaders” (“Bolivar”), which Miscavige has apparently taken to heart, there’s a pretty straight line to where the CofS has ended up now – with its trajectory defined by Hubbard:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmations_(L._Ron_Hubbard)
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-responsibility-of-leaders/
I’m not so sure that Hubbard was exactly much more benevolent, as resourceful. He was able to dangle the carrot of continual “latest, greatest” tech releases in order to keep Scientology going, though he gleefully wielded the totalitarian stick when he had to* – the RPF and the Running Program, orders to “tear up” of meetings of defectors and “R4-45,” the “Kha Khan” (“get away with murder”) and “Fair Game” policies, and so on. Miscavige is left with little other than the stick of punishment to keep people in, such as through the threat of disconnection – though he has made a few attempts to use the carrot of “tech,” when he could.
* Note the particular fetishizing of threats and violence in Hubbards “beat their teeth in personally” handwritten note:
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/violence-at-the-top-of-scientology/
Bruce, you make a very eloquent, thoughtful and compassionate case.
I think Mike’s calling people out here, may serve the purpose of getting a few of them to come forward sooner rather than later, keeping the ongoing exposure of abuses going with fresh details – Scientology may be brought down more by a thousand cuts, than a single blow. But beyond that, many may choose to stay silent for reasons that we can hardly know or judge.
well said Peacemaker, your writing is similar to Bruce…thoughtful and compassionate. What you said is true, hopefully new material will come to light and the cult will be destroyed by multiple issues, not just the IRS or 1 major scandal.
Naming and encouraging Ex’s to come out and speak of their experiences, Mike and many of you all are to be commended .
The topic is vengeful and vindictive. Saying someone took a payout and is now making money from Scientology or is working for OSA is hearsay. I read it on the internet. What if some people on the list being compiled don’t fit the “profile”? Collateral damage?
Well, it is EXTREMELY easy to disprove a false accusation like that. One public criticism of Hubbard, scientology or Miscavige would do the trick.
Richard, I re-read the list and checked, and the only one I see accused of being used by OSA is Bennick – and he in fact participated in one of the smear videos against Mike:
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/mike-rinder-coffee-waiter/
One person is mentioned as working for a business that sells materials to Scientology’s CST, and other as being a Scientology WISE company, and those do indicate clear remaining connections to Scientology, not just “hearsay.”
I guess most of these people are in social media in diff ways and also pictures of them. Would be good to “expose” these. Or would that become PR for them? Any PR is better than no PR…
Interesting post. There’s an abrupt ending to Tommy’s paragraph. The last sentence isn’t finished.
You left out Marty Rathbun, who is now back working for Scientology and lying through his ass.
Jonathan said:”You left out Marty Rathbun, who is now back working for Scientology and lying through his ass.”
Yet Marty/Mark Rathbun was, in my experience, the guy who started it all, the first wave of revelations which has expanded into an overwhelming tidal wave which seems poised to take the last dregs of scn off the playing board. Without his initial work, I don’t think we’d be here calmly discussing things. He’s paid his dues, including suffering massive “noisy investigations” and other fair game activities.
Marty didn’t start it jere. He is VERY late “on the chain” as Hubtard would say. This got rolling in a very big way in the early 80’s.
This is new! Wynski stating 2 things that are actually truthful in 1 day! I am reading Marty’s book “What is wrong with Scientology?” at the moment and find it actually not bad apart from 1 or 2 things I disagree with or rather are over-emphasized.
I agree. I’ll always be grateful to Marty Rathbun. His original blog got me out of the cult. I read it for 2 years before I even had the courage to post under a fake name. I know he has since gone off the reservation and back to the dark side, has stiffed his attorneys and, in all likelihood, taken substantial cult money to be Miscavige’s field enforcer once more, or one of them. I don’t want to judge Marty. Easy for me to have this viewpoint about him because he hasn’t been attacking ME. But I think Mike has the same viewpoint, or is at least attempting valiantly to have it and maintain it, even though Marty has viciously been attacking HIM. Marty’s doing evil now; that’s a fact. He did good, a lot of good, back then; that’s also a fact. One doesn’t negate the other. End of rant.
well said as usual Aquamarine, I guess we all hoe that one day soon Marty will return to the light…He hasn’t failed to escape , he is just yet to succeed
Thanks, fred. I really hope he does.
Here’s an old list of people in the Hole that Tony Ortega did in his VV days w/remarks by Mike Rinder and Amy Scobee.
https://www.villagevoice.com/2012/08/02/scientologys-concentration-camp-for-its-executives-the-prisoners-past-and-present/
Not sure who’s left scientology or the sea org.
Marty Rathbun should be Chairman of the Bisrd for this Hall of Shame.
Dave owns that title.
Prison is too good for Miscavige. He deserves a public hanging.
Mikey said:”Prison is too good for Miscavige. He deserves a public hanging.”
I’m not so sure. I’d be most in favor for whatever gives him the most time to reflect on his final disposition. Partly, it could be a long, drawn-out series of trials that incrementally lead to stripping his defenses away, preferably agonizingly slowly, then a while of uncertainty as they decide his fate. Life without possibility of parole or possibility of getting away from the various “Bubbas” lusting for his so-tiny derrière might be appropriate, similar to his throwing the highest ranked scientologists into the HOLE for indefinite sentences of periodic mistreatment as and when the mood strikes him. Per\haps the worst punishment would be cursing him to a long/immortal life AND restoration or creation of his conscience so he understands+ feels the hurt he caused/causes everyone else.
Sociopaths never look inward, Jere. That’s what makes them sociopaths. But I agree with you that punishment will only perpetuate and reinforce his evil. I’d like him separated from society, and contained somewhere, like toxic waste. Once toxic waste is spilled it can’t be cleaned up, only contained.
A bit like what Hubbard said in Science of Survival eh? Well, for those who understand things literally that is.
If that perverted little rodent ever assaults me it will be a very big mistake. All the Legendary OT powers in the world won’t be able to save the COB vermin. By the way, and just to be Clear ?, there are no OT powers. Just so you know.
Out in the real world, think about how long The Rodent would get away with his various flagrant abuses. Not very long.
Mr. Miscavige, when are you going to sue Mike Rinder, Leah Remini and everyone else whose now dragging you and this cult out from the slimy rocks you hide under? Why haven’t you made any public appearance in decades? How can you lead the charge to Help Ron Clear The Planet™️ if all you do hide? You should be on as many public cable TV interviews as possible, talking to reporters, giving speeches, and doing everything possible to Keep Scientology Working™️ The same goes for your boyfriend Tom Cruise. Remember his Big Speech a couple of years ago about how he’s all in and going to do everything he can to Clear The Planet? It’s had about 10 million views on YouTube now. Where’s Tom? He’s a Scientology ghost.
Don’t think a big fall can’t or won’t come you POS. Just read the news…
Your invented accusations in your 3. paragraph have no basis in fact and are anything but helping the cause of the critics and exes, also not your over the top offensive parlance.
I agree completely. Rodent Watcher, your comments are not helpful. The child molesting accusation is pure b.s, and prison rape is nothing to joke about. No one hates Miscavige more than I do and I want justice and his own bad karma to catch up with him – but vour bile is uncalled for.
Ahem. Ohhhh reeeeally now. ? Get your fucking ass back to that OSA salt mine — and go find some other Entheta to shadow. Ain’t it a bitch you can’t stop any of this? File that lawsuit Miscavige. You coward.
You’re all surrounded by PTS sources everywhere and millions of raving hostile SP’s. Xenu is going to escape from his electronic dungeon beneath the secret mountain because the force field containing him is being weakened by the apostates thinking bad thoughts! What are we going to do?
Plus, hundreds of thousands of members of the American Psychiatric Association are simultaneously beaming telepathic assault waves at Gold Base three times a day seven days a week — trying to fuck with your minds! Better sleep with double layer tin foil on your windows at night!
I hear they might even be doing another volcano dump of all the left over thetans that had their taxes audited on Teejeack 14 (over in Sector 3) where Ron is now late for his Second Coming to earth because he’s working hard putting the finishing touches on OT levels 9 through 20. ??
John Travolta’s ? volunteered to fly one of the specially equipped 727 jet space planes to ferry the entities through hundreds of light years, all Triple frozen in glycol solution and packed 10,000 deep in Special Containers.
All the BT clusters infecting everyone on the planet are in a Great Quandry, and waiting to be freed by telepathic auditing conducted during e meter sessions. The charges to be blown will be the Biggest Wins of All.
Anything else you’d like to add *fucktard*?
Hell, I’ll bet this is Miscavige himself chiming in cuz he’s worried he’s about to get caught for pulling little girl’s and boy’s panties down for decades. Aren’t you, David. You freakin Chester.
” hundreds of thousands of members of the American Psychiatric Association are simultaneously beaming telepathic assault waves at Gold Base three times a day seven days a week — trying to fuck with your minds! ”
That would be members of the PARAPSYCHOLOGY association, I believe.
I had not seen this comment and now deleted the inappropriate material
COB rodent watcher,
Not sure if I believe the pedophilia angle, but adultery is still illegal in Florida, and since I can’t imagine him having Shelly flown in at night, I would imagine he is breaking that law at times. Although he may just be impotent like LRH was later in life. Maybe someone should hire one of the sleazy PIs that Scientology tosses aside to look into getting compromising pics!
The girl who escaped Gold SO who was Shelley’s right hand man/woman and knew the intimate lives of both DM and Shelley has said that DM and Shelly only had sex maybe once a year. So maybe he, like LRH in his later years, had erection troubles.
Or maybe Shelly secretly yet understandably had long hated her husband’s guts, had been totally turned off by him for years, only sleeping with him when it was absolutely necessary, Maybe that’s the reason he drummed up some bullshit excuse to get rid of her and install a Communicator With Benefits by his side and in his bed. And, just possibly, Shelly is right now reciting her nightly prayer of thanks to Lou. To Lou, for being there and still keeping him amused, For, no matter her troubles in the prison Miscavige created for her, no matter what she has to contend with where she is now, at least her womanhood and her tenderest feelings are out of his keeping. At least she doesn’t have to have sex with a psychopath.
Aqua, I think you may be right
Your “imagination” is running wild again. Used it twice in your comment above. And I see your training in psychology and its emphasis on sex is coming to the fore. And surely you shouldn’t be proposing of doing what you accuse the Church of doing? No, surely not eh? Perhaps you should take a leaf out of bnxtram’s comment above, which is not his usual trumpeting hot air, but at least a tendency towards decency.
I detest DM as much as the rest of us. However, ” Serial sex abuser “, ” Michael Jackson style ” do you have proof?
COB Rodent Watcher – do you believe DM to be guilty of everything you claim? Or are you an OSA troll trying to make this blog look bad with unfounded claims? It is really hard to tell from reading your post.
I’m going to join in and condemn CRW for unfounded claims against David Miscavige. Let’s deal ONLY in FACTS. The sensible people on this blog are NOT into “alternative facts”about Miscavige. If you’re partial to alternative facts, you know where you can go. And that phrase can be taken definitively.
I love it Mike – “The Ex SO Hall of Shame”! That is so appropriate. Those that have left and know the entire organization is nothing but a scam should be ashamed of themselves for not doing something about Scientology. People are getting hurt daily. I can’t stand these ex members who say “I had wins” – fuck you. People are getting destroyed. How about The Scientology Hall of SHAME? Perhaps going public posting all of the divorces, bankruptcies and foreclosures “still-ins” have had by Being Scientologists and Keeping Scientology Working? I think it is time to expose everyone who is part of this organization publicly announcing their membership. We can do a ban on using any Scientology run businesses, services or products. Let’s organize a campaign around the Globe to BOYCOTT Scientologists who Keep Scientology Destroying Families, shattering minds and ruining lives. STOP SCIENTOLOGY!
I am in I know thatI have been trying to find this as well Not buying their products and services will cut their profits and maybe out of business Anyone who can find out who they are please post them and their business and we can hurt their profits
Great post! I hope to see more like this! Thanks!
Gali and Rikard Rodin left because she was pregnant with twins.
Mary’s right about Brad K, he was the start of no one being able to call out to family from the Int base because HE was gossiping to his mom about Tom Cruise. His mom, was selling data to the tabloids after each call. I worked with Brad in marketing. The string of No Can Do that started after Brad is outrageous. And his damage (Brads), started in the early 90s!
His father, Ben Kugler, is another one. Called the Int Base way back then and finally was able to talk to Brad after he threatened to call the police. Ben is well aware that his son was physically assaulted by miscavige. BUT…
I have many stories of Ben throwing people close to him under the bus and sometimes for nothing more than an “Atta Boy” from OSA. He’s turned into a bankrupt OSA slave and that seems to be what scientology tech does best.
Maybe Ben is being supported by his rich kid – what is his name? Tad or Todd or something.
Yes, Todd.
Those who take the easy route out do a huge disservice to those who are willing to stand up and be counted despite the risks. It is thanks to people like Claire Headley speaking out relentlessly about coerced abortions in the Sea Org, for example, that current SO couples are, in the main, able to keep their babies. Some of those who benefited from changes forced by whistleblowers are the same people who suffered under David Miscavige and who have now left. It’s their turn to help those left behind.
Andrea:
Are you by chance the ex-wife of Ben Garner, Chief Engineer of the Freewinds? I worked under him for 15 years and I believe he said once that his wife’s name was Andrea.
Bill
Well said, Andrea!
Taking blood money will certainly screw with ones karma. Remaining quiet about abuse is criminal.
ok- so much to digest! The glaring fact that David Miscavige ordered someone run down with a car- I am pretty sure that is attempted murder. And Johannsen actually DID that?? they should both be prosecuted. Unfortunately, there would be no willing witnesses, and although I don’t think they need a witness in an attempted murder, they would likely need a report from someone and some evidence of the attempt. The fact that they get away with this crap is one of the most egregious aspects of the cult- that they actually see themselves as above the law. (and why wouldn’t they as no one ever seems to actually prosecute them for anything).
on another subject, it is almost all I can do to not dig into these people. I REALLY want to try to contact them and others and make them confront their cowardice. However, that would place me on too close a path with scientology ‘fair game’ tactics, and I refuse to sink to their levels. They will have to live with themselves and the shame that will follow them for the rest of their lives. I would imagine they don’t get much sleep knowing that they are remaining silent while others suffer. The fact that they are not speaking out is offensive. However, I get it- most of them fear the disconnection and fair gaming that they know is in store for them if they rock the boat. This is an awful position to be in, and I don’t envy them, but they need to know that they will always be blackmailed if they don’t speak out. The only true way to free themselves and their loved ones is to destroy the hands holding the reins and ruling the cult.
I will still do what I have been doing. I know that several people are looking into how the cult co-opts other legitimate entities and I will continue to reach out to the press and others every time it happens. I will likely send a polite missive to the individuals on the above list(if I can dig up information) urging them to speak up now, when it could free their loved ones. But I wont badger them even though I feel they should be- mostly because they need to come forward on their own.
The absolute evil of this cult becomes more and more clear as I dig deeper into it, and I am astounded that they have not all gone to jail for their crimes. It is against the law to order someone run down by a car, it is against the law to try to run someone down with a car. It is against the law to torture people and restrain them against their will- why hasn’t this been stopped? no religious protection could cover these sins.
At various times, the cult has staged car “accidents” with critics or even parishioners who rock the boat. Some examples are given on this page:
https://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/the-reading-library/scientology/scientology-roots/scientology-roots-chapter-thirty-five-illegal-ecurity-checks-on-ot-7/
How do they continue to get away with this stuff? In doing my digging, I also discovered that Scientology funds an Haitian Orphanage, is courting Pinellas County foster and adoptive system, and is doing other hair raising things that seem to be targeting children. Especially children who do not have a healthy support system. It’s very scary. This cult gets more sinister every day!
As to the importance of watching out for, and exposing, Scientology’s attempts to co-opt legitimate groups, here’s an example of what readers can accomplish by taking a bit of time to write letters and e-mails:
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/miss-ny-unwitting-scientology-shill/#comment-261685
Peacemaker,
I saw! every time we can get an entity to look into them it will hurt their credibility.
Brad Kugler. In the RPF’s RPF at the Int Base. Phycially assaulted by miscavige.
Out for tens of years. Quiet as a church mouse.
Not just people in The Hole, so many still suffer largely, if not solely, because “good men do nothing.”
Brad Kugler? Or his father?
Brad Kugler. Yes.