I recently came across this list of people who had been in The Hole at one time or another. (For anyone unfamiliar with The Hole, it has it’s own Wiki page)
I don’t think I ever published it before, and I am not sure anyone has ever made a comprehensive list of people who were prisoners there.
Quite a number of the people who were there have left the Sea Org. Some have spoken out about it (they are marked in red) and some remain silent to this day — either through fear (of retaliation or disconnection) or they have been paid off. They are marked in blue.
If you have information about any of these people and their current status I would appreciate you including it in the comments or email me.
Of course, Scientology has denied the Hole ever existed. Though it has been covered in Going Clear, the Tampa Bay Times, The Aftermath and numerous other media, not to mention testimony in the Debbie Cook legal case. Given all the legal threat letters they have sent about it over the years, one would imagine that they would have sued by now if it really was a figment of so many people’s imaginations. Accusing David Miscavige of setting up his own private prison is a pretty serious allegation. And there are, as you will see below, a LOT of people who have been in The Hole.
IN THE HOLE AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER
Lisa Allen (Schroer) CO Gold
Tanya Alexander R Comps Sec
Jennifer Alpers CO CMO Ship/ CMO Int
Mary Arbuckle R Comps Sec
Gail Armstrong PR Aide OSA Int/Int Mgmt PR
Cheryl Azevedo WDC
Allen Baumgarten Int Finance Off
Russ Bellin CO CST
Alison Biggs CMO Gold
Angie Blankenship COB Pjt Ops RTC/CMO Int/WDC
Dave Bloomberg Exec Strata
Pam Bolstad/Gumm CST
Veronique Bromberg CO OSA Int
Pat Buglewicz Incomm
Marcia Callahan RTC/R Comps
Aleah Chisholm Qual Gold
Amy Clifford Exec Strata/Gold Mfg
Lise Cohee Legal Off IAS
Amy Conley CMO Int/R Comps
Gary Conley Gold
Debbie Cook Capt FSO
Astra Croft/Fear D/CO Internal CMO Int
Geray Cruzen Int Landlord Off
Rick Cruzen Gold Musician
Tony DeCrecenzo CMO Int Ext Comm
Julia Delderfield CMO Gold
Tom DeVocht CMO CW/CO CMO Int
Blandine DeVries R Comps Sec
Liz Engen RTC/R Comps
Ryan Fear CMO Int
Sarah Fear Exec Strata
Frank Fehn Gold Cameraman
Pauline Flood R Comps Sec
Tom Ford R Comps
Monica Grannis Exec Strata/Int Mgt PR Off
Russ Grielich Gold Audio Production Sec
Laurence Guenot/Stumbke/Barram/Wright Int Landlord Off
Bettina Henderson Exec Strata/Gold
Dave Henderson Exec Strata/Gold
Steve Hodkin Int Landlord Off
Karen Hollander Int Mgmnt PR
Jon Horwich R Comps
Stephanie Horwich Qual Gold
Becky Hughes (Oaks) Gold
Debbie Hughes Exec Strata/WDC
Greg Hughes Exec Strata/WDC
Marta Idda – Data Dir CMOI
Liz Ingber – CMO Int/R Comps
Mark Ingber – CO CMO Int/WDC Reserves
Michelle Jaramillo – R Comps Sec
Mette Jensen – AVC RTC
Heber Jentzsch – President CSI
Pall Johansson – Int Landlord Off
Kristina Jensen – HCO Chf CMOI
Charles Johnson – RTC Cramming Off
Sharon Johnston – D/CO CMO Int
Jacqueline Kevenaar – CMO Int/WDC
Coby Knight – Int Finance
Sue Koon – RTRC
Theresa Laner – LRH PPRO Office
Susie LaPlaine – Exec Strata
Tim Larson – RTC AVC/Gold
Tanja Lefevre – RTC AVC
Kathy Lemmer – Exec Strata/Gold
Angie LeMoine (Trent) – RTC/Gold
Robert Lemoine — Incomm
Andy Lenarcic — LRH PPRO Bio
Guilliame Lesevre – ED Int
Gary Lew – LRH Audio Visual
Mariette Lindstein – RTC/Gold
Jenny Linson — CO CMO Int/WDC
Tammy Lundeen – D/CO CMO Int/WDC
Aron Mason – OSA Int PR/Int Mgt PR
Barbara McHenry – CMO Int/WDC/Gold
Janet McLaughlin (Light) – President IASA
Carly McShane – CMO Gold
Marcy McShane – LRH PPRO
Abigail Miller – CMO Int/WDC
Jason Miller — CMO Int
Ray Mithoff – RTC/Snr CS Int
Bruno Moresi — CST
Julie Moresi — CST
Jan Mortensen – CMO Int/WDC/Gold
Clark Morton – CO CMO Gold/Cine Sec Gold
Barbara Newton – CMO Int/CMO Gold
Marie-Noel Pietch – Data CMOI
Cory Norton – R Comps
Anna Maria Ogeltree – LRH PPRO
Jan Olsen – LRH PPRO
Lucky Porter (Story) – D/CO CMO Int
Marion Pouw – RTC/ CMO Int
Claudia Olander – CMO Int/ Gold
John Oldfield — CMO Int
Cathy Ondreicka – Exec Strata/Gold
James Perry — Incomm
Urd Priester — RTC
Marty Rathbun — RTC
Wendell Reynolds – Int Finance Director
Ellen Reynolds – Int Finance Off
Cathy Rinder — CMO Int/R Comps
Mike Rinder – CO CMO Int/ CO OSA Int/WDC
Linda Rodin – R Comps
Steve Rule – Exec Strata/Int Landlord
Faith Shermerhorn – Exec Strata
Peter Schless – Gold Musician
Rita Schwartzgruber – CO FCB
Deborah Siegal – Int Landlord Off
Ingrid Sjogren – Int Landlord Off
Josie Spittell – CMO Int
Denise Sommerville – Audio Prod Sec Gold
Lyman Spurlock — ASI/RTC/Int Finance (deceased)
Daniella Starkey – D/CO CMO Int
Norman Starkey – ASI/RTC
Jon Stumbke — Gold
Anke Sutter – RTC AVC Cram Off
Fred Swartz – Exec Strata
Michelle Tampion – HCO Chf CMO Int
Melita Tampion – LRH PPRO Off
Fleur Thomas – RTC AVC Eval Auth
Katie Tisi (Feshbach) – Qual Sec Gold
Bert Trussell — CST
Jens Urskov – Exec Strata/Gold
Tom Vorm — CST
Bruce Wagoner – Port Captain Gold
Karen Wagoner (KK) – CMO Int/Gold Mfg Div
Cebron Walker – CMO Int/Marketing
Danielle Walker Bailey – D/CO CMO Int
Richard Welch – Int FInance
Kirsti Wilhere – CO FCB
Michelle Wheelis — CST
Rena Weinberg – ED ABLE Int
Jessica Wieneke (Gilchrist) – Qual Gold
Kurt Wieland – CO OSA Int/WDC OSA
Gary Wiese – Chf Editor Gold
Greg Wilhere — RTC
Sue Wilhere — RTC
Diane Williams – RTC AVC
Tom Willis — CST
Marc Yager – CO CMO Int
Laurie Zurn – D/ED ABLE Int
140 PEOPLE
Sincere question that I’m asking with all due respect. Why isn’t Marty Rathbun in Blue or getting his own special color for being bought off after the fact?
Rathbun actually spoke out, even if he eventually did an about-face. The others in blue have never said a word to anybody,
How does Scientology explain the state of the buildings? If they say they are the HQ of CMO International, why is every other Scientology building maintained beautifully (on the outside, anyway) and these particular buildings are not upgraded to permanent ones (versus trailers) and don’t seem to look very professional?
Cebron Walker is out and married with at least one kid (maybe two) at this point. I believe living on the west coast somewhere. Wife is named Angela and she is also ex-SO but was only briefly in.
I do not have any current info about anyone on this list, sorry.
But I do have a question 🙂
The cult denies that there is a Hole or that there ever has been a Hole. Well, OK, for argument’s sake, let’s say that’s correct. “The Hole Does Not Exist”, LOL. But then, what are these 2 double-wide trailers for? How does the cult explain their usage – storage, something like that? The cult can’t deny that these structures are (or were at some point) on the property!
They were the office spaces of CMO International. But they became redundant when all of CMO Int were assigned to the Hole.
Well, when you think about it, it’s not really a lie then, is it?
It’s the office space of CMO Int. and it’s still the office space of CMO Int. ….. as well as their living space ……. and sleeping space ……
Gives a whole new meaning to “live to work”
What about Ken and Lisa Hoden? No?
They’re still in as of oct 2018, Lisa was in the PAC Call Center and Ken was the Chaplain ASHO.
Wow. I don’t know 3/4 of those poor souls but some I did know. Horrific gulag treatment that sucks the soul out of them for sure. They are the personification of a cult without a doubt! So now they their followers there never was a “hole” ?? They can’t deny this list!! They can’t deny testimonies. But true believers won’t look. Deliberately obtuse ! Ugh
This may be old news, but I am very curious about it anyway.
I started just for giggles web searching on some of these name, and I wound up on one of the “Who is Mariette Lindstein” hit page. Interestingly, there is a copyright line at the bottom of the page: © 2020 Church of Scientology International. All Rights Reserved. The last time I ran across one of these pages, there was no attribution whatsoever, and a whois search turned up no indication as to the owner of the site. It was clear to me that the Scilons were doing their standard hide-behind-anonymity-and-slander-good-people procedure, by the numbers, the informational shell game.
I wonder when the Scilons started taking credit for these things, and whether it occurred to anyone that claiming copyright on a page that proves without a shadow of a doubt that EVERY iota of information given to the cult is fair game for weaponization. All the years of denial and bullshit about confidentiality and clergy-penitant privilege become glaringly obvious.
I’m curious about the thoughts of the old-timers about this — what do they think they could possiby gain from revealing themselves in this way. Certainly not a positive image of the “church” from the outside, and I very seriously doubt that any still inside Scientology who knew these people (and didn’t participate in the slander or libel) would really believe the stuff that is being “revealed” — after all, they’ve all gone through the same stuff.
Is it maybe a Komissar thing? As in during WWII, the Soviet infantry was thrust into the front lines against a German force vastly superior in training and equipment, and to keep them from breaking and running from the battle, political officers (Komissar) were placed behind them to shoot any soldier who broke ranks. Maybe the church is now taking credit for these sites to provide a visible threat to any still in as to what awaits them if they, too, flee the battle?
Who told you that the Wehrmacht was vastly superior to the Red Army？ Remember who won the war！Stalingrad。Moscow。 Kursk。 Bagration。 Berlin。 All Red Army victories。
Vastly superior in traning and weaponry, absoluely, until the T-34 tank. the Lavochkin LA-5, and the Ilyushin IL-2 aircraft came along. And there was this little thing called the winter. Hitler’s successful David Miscavige imitation didn’t help, either. No amount of technology, however, can win against overwhelming numbers of a motivated force, and the Soviets, whatever their shortcomings, learned very quickly and were extremely courageous.
The Red Army didn’t win the war, though. The Red Army did not participate in WWII, because it ever fought outside of its argument with the Germans. The Red Army successfully defended the Soviet Union against the Germans, and wouldn’t have been able to do as well as it did had it not been for Henry Ford’s vehicles (GAZ), Lend-Lease and the fact that Stalin finally let some brilliant leaders out of the gulag. Berlin was a gift to the Soviets as well, a deliberate decision by the other Allies to let them take Berlin — and look where that ended up.
The US Army was the primary victor in WWII, with the broadest participation in men and materials worldwide, in all theatres and in all arenas.
Be that as it may, the DM regime has paid the cult its price. The statistics that one can see here in the blog as in other places show a continuous drop in followers.
And this particular period will make others lose it.
Following the Aftermath series the new members as well as the new staff crashed like a plane on fire.
People understood that it is a scam.
In Italy for things like that we say it is “a package” (un pacco) . Which means an empty box or with a rip inside and not what you wanted.
I am sure that Mr. Miscavige makes a real good job (like Mr. Trump) in destroying his company. So let him do what he will do.
I wonder why there is no new hole?
Normally 1984 organized structures do not change their habit. They become more hidden and evil than before. Only in new clothes.
So, where are the new prisoners? In the mines down under some OT-hills?
This is really sad. For each of the 140 there are many other loved ones also effected by knowing and seeing and not being able to help.
Losing a job is a major cause of depression. Losing a spouse also.
These 140 have mental health issues beyond comprehension by many.
Thank you for publishing this list. I’ve known or known of half of these which I’d say mostly seem to be from the USA.
Not only will their depression not be addressed under the ‘care’ of the church nor do they likley know the cause of their feelings except that they’ve all caused it to themselves.
Pat Selly Bromley was sent from Int to the PAC RPF where she was at least 8 years in 90s.
I’d love to see an expanded list including prior to the hole. There are still many friends who went over the rainbow I’ve never seen again.
Sad place to have to leave friends.
Dave Henderson was CO CLO EUS when I was in.
140 people that we know about.
I guess you’re saying there could be more. Lots more. And you your probably right.
I thought more people than that had spoken out. WOW!! Thank you so much Mr. Rinder, it truly speaks volumes about your courage and integrity.
You are making a difference. You prevented me from joining the Church when I became heavily interested in Scientology. I’m an indy now and forever grateful (to your work) for me not having gone that route.
Well, this is David Miscavige’s “product” – dismantling Int Management, Golden Era and a good chunk of ILO, CMO Cont Units and OSA Int to go with it. One never wanted to be called up to Int starting around 2003/4, because they had seen so many they knew go there then disappear from the face of the earth.
SSoA. I went away during that time. It was obvious back then that the management structure as established by hubbard had already been compromised.
Then it became only Dave management. The results have been seen.
I still remember an exec of the EU Folo who was perhaps Oec / Febc and had contributed to making ideal orgs and SH size Padova Budapest St Petersburg, who ended up on the RPF because in Madrid DM had asked for something and this staff had not answered correctly.
Just for that and ethics protection where was it?
Gary Lew aka “Luigi” was only in the Hole briefly (unless he went back in after I left in 2004).
Funny story about him. He did a lot of work on Dave’s personal high end audio systems. So while he was in, Dave needed him to set up a new one in his apartment in LA. So he had Luigi taken out of the Hole, had him take his shoes and socks off, looked at his feet. Decided his toes were well manicured and let him out. What it is about Dave and feet I’ll never know.
Far as I know, Jon Horwich (husband to Diana Hubbard, father of Roanne, once Ron’s Audio Visual) was long gone before the real double-wide trailer Hole started up. But he was always in trouble, on and off the RPF etc. so maybe he was in an early version of the Hole. At one point he was “twinned” with Steve Marlowe. They were supposed to discover each other’s secrets. Must have been sheer hell for Jon.
Surprised Steve Marlowe is not on the list. Before the Hole really got started, late 90s, there were several “on the decks” doing work on the Berthing Buildings etc. Charlie Rush was also one of those. I think also Rick Cruzen. The idea was that they were suppressive and were declared but it was considered unsafe to allow them to leave. So they were doing their “A to E steps” (hokum procedure to get out of being declared and back in good standing with the Church).
Later this was extended to a lot of other executives and the temporary office space they were using got turned into “the Hole”. Important to note, this is NOT the rehabilitation Project Force or anything like it. These are Declared Suppressive Persons who would normally be “beached” (kicked out of the Sea Org and left to fend for themselves on the beach). But because these were executives who knew too much about Dave and his shenanigans they were not allowed to leave.
I hear the Hole is no longer in the double-wide trailers and its denizens hang out at the Berthing Buildings these days. More like a retirement community circle from Dante’s Inferno. But it is still illegal incarceration.
At least a prison can be called a Correction Facility and has set sentences that may some day end. The Hole is more like the old Soviet gulag where you are too inconvenient for the Party and are just “disappeared”. All to protect Dave Miscavige.
Bruce — Jon escaped before the Hole proper got started. He was there when it was the “A-E” room.
Marlowe left way before the Hole got going.
That is such a bizarre story about DM and Gary Lew’s feet! You have to laugh at the sheer absurdity alone. RE: the double-wides: is it no longer the case that they still work in the trailers during the day and just spend nights in the Berthing buildings?
I notice that there are several people with the same surnames on that list. I’ve always wanted to know how relatives/spouses acted towards one another in The Hole. Did they back each other up in the forced confessions? Or would they all try and get each other to ‘fess up’?
It’s every man for himself. Wives against husbands. Siblings pitted against one another.
If you have read Lord of the Flies it will give you a pretty good idea.
😢
Keep hankies close to you.
Curious. So Tommy Davis was never in the hole
No — after he blew to Las Vegas he was recovered and shipped to Flag where he was sec checked by his future wife Jessica Feshbach/Rodriguez and they left the Sea Org with the story that she had cancer. That may or may not be true. I have not had the opportunity to ask.
FWIW, in 2019, he married Egyptian actress Maie Ibrahim.
I checked on all of the names using a quick google search like this:
“Mike Rinder” scientology
The quotation marks make google look for exactly “Mike Rinder”. Sites about Mike Peterson and John Rinder won’t come up.
For most of them I found up to 400 links, a few had more. When I search people for the big list, the typical Scientologist only has a dozen or a couple dozen links. This usually means they are still in, or are out but have never spoken about their experiences using their full name, or have deceased. However, people who were in the hole are more well known, not in the least because they are mentioned on sites like this. So I’m assuming up to about 400 means the same.
I found several links for people in who have posted vids on COS sites to slander critics and/or ex-members. Won’t refer to them for obvious reasons.
It was a quick search. No guarantees.
Out
Debbie Cook
Marty Rathbun (I’m assuming he didn’t go back, YMMV)
Mike Rinder (Who the hell is that?!)
Mariette Lindstein
Tom DeVocht
Deceased
Lyman Spurlock https://tonyortega.org/2014/09/08/lyman-spurlock-1945-2014-imprisoned-and-abused-a-loyal-scientology-executive-to-the-end/
How many people! But only a few spoke about what was going on.
Much of it is still there, who knows where, and several of them have been re-assimilated.
I did well to leave that nightmare organization.
When I was leaving as an Exchange 4 formula for the 15 years of service they were happy to make me a declare SP, but it was never approved.
DO NOT GO TO SEA ORG.
Whatever they tell you, when you are in there with no way out, you will see that they lied to you! Do you wanna bet?!
This is a pretty big deal. I’m surprised there aren’t more comments. I’m guessing as time goes by, Scientology and it’s madness is fading.
Surprised too that after all these years, only of few of that group are speaking out. Just amazes and saddens me.
If you got out of the SO, you might want to just keep your head down. There might be a legal requirement.
When I got declared, I remained a Scientologist (in bad standing) for many years, meaning that I was still a true believer, and hoped to get through the A-E steps. I wouldn’t have thought about speaking out, for that reason. As a Scientologist, the trouble I was in was all my fault.
It’s why it’s appropriately called a prison of belief. The inculcated thought processes and beliefs are a lot harder to overcome than a barbed wire fence.
Great analysis
So damn true. I woke up when I met your blog and Leah’s videos.
For 13 years after having left I was somehow still “thinking” that way.
A real implant.
Please tell us- you are out of this cult today!!!?!?!
Oh, I’m out all right. I’m a true SP—I seek Scientology’s destruction.
Mike, is Heber still in the Hole? That man has gone through Hell & back.
HI Mike, This is very enlightening. Thanks for compiling and publishing the list. But I don’t know what is the difference between the names in blue ink and the names in black ink? Are the blue ones people you suspect may have been paid off to keep quiet, or who may be keeping quiet due to not wanting disconnection? And then what is the significance of the names in black?
I noticed most names were execs and high ups. I guess people low on the org board don’t threaten DM, so they are relatively safe.
Normal Starsky and Heber and Guillame LeSevere, these people must be close to death by now age wise and stress wise. Of course, in the Hole, people can die and you’d never hear about it on the outside, especially if the church has made them disconnect from family years earlier. No one to check on them and raise a fuss.
Names in red are people who left and subsequently spoke out.
Names in blue are those who left the Sea Org but kept quiet.
Names in black are people who are still in the SO.
I feel so bad that these people have to cowtow to there masters. This is horrific! But…that’s Scientology. And I wish it wasn’t.
Only 34 of them are in completions, which is a surprisingly low number
Of course none of them on the big list
Just an exact check using vertical search though.
Vertical search for example doesn’t come up with Debra J. Cook who is on the big list as Debbie Cook
So we would have to google all of them
Sea Org member completions are not included anywhere
I have found differently.
My x is on the list 2x with 2 spellings – Jack Kruchko in 40+/- years. Completions all after joining 1980.
I’m on the list merged with another Cece Smith whom I don’t know.
My completions were all while SO.
“Sea Org member completions are not included anywhere.”
I’ve not considered this before, nor its ramifications.
The lies and expectations that make it impossible to have a rational group, include the concept that SO members are OTs ready to do any job at any time.
When I was on VII I found out that not only was my own auditor not OT VII nor even OT 5, almost none of the other auditors were either.
All these auditors were working non-stop as elig and preps auditors, getting people through 4, 5, onto and through VII, for years, for decades, without achieving it themselves.
For sure, the they’d want to keep the focus away from details about SO conditions and how members fare on their own bridges.
Wow.
If you then go around talking about this and how you feel that these guys deserve to be VII, Sups and Tech staff start freaking out.
Hello Everyone….I haven’t posted in a long time….I hope everybody is ok…and managing in this weird new reality.
Anyway….after watching Tom Vorm’s POW video…..my question is….Who will “Lead”
Scientology after Miscavige meets the Grim Reaper?
Take Care of Yourselves!!!!
Over the Bridge… Please give us a link to watch Tom Vorm’s POW video.
Cindy….sorry it took me a day to get back to you…. the link is below…in a comment by PartTimeSP. 👍
It is amazing how few have spoken out about it.
I guess not more have spoken out against the Hole because they really don’t believe what LRH wrote when he said, “Your integrity is more important than your life.”
My family member, whose name is on this list, is no longer in the Hole, but still lives at Int Base, a shell of his former self. Emaciated, with at least one serious chronic illness, emotionally fragile/broken. He does make-work all day. Others who were with him in the Hole and escaped have said that he was browbeaten, terrorized, yelled at, all doubts beaten out of him (emotionally not physically). My brother-in-law, who saw him a few years ago for the first time in a long time, said it looked like his soul get sucked out of him.
I wouldn’t put it past them.
“…said it looked like his soul got sucked out of him.”
Ladies and gentlemen, that’s Scientology in a nut shell.
There’s a bloke living near me who is a hollow shell of his former self. He moved to Glebe, to be close to AOSH ANZO, when it was in Glebe. He was public, not qualified for staff. He’s looked hollow, burned out, a shell of his former self, for years. Moving the org all the way out to Chatswood (miles north) must have felt like a slap in the face, because he initially moved to make it easier to go up the Bridge. Now he’s stuck where he is. He would have no money, so in a sense, it doesn’t matter.
I don’t talk to him, because he would know I’m a declared suppressive.
Do you know if this person is still at Chatswood as they pushed out a number of staff from their accommodation due to COVID-19. That is of course if it wasn’t an opportunist action to use the sympathy card and move into family homes, and bludge on the generous double job seeker payments the government are paying at the moment. I would just love to know if the individuals keep this money or if much is expected to be funneled into the cult.
My relative was very clear that they would “be working from home”. Bet they don’t tell the government that though.
My friend I am sorry for that person. Trust me it is a “stable datum” that what happens in the hidden places of the cult tells you what scientology is REALLY all about. I wish you the best.
The list makes me feel sick to my stomach.
So many people I knew and admired growing up in the Sea Org.
It would be interesting to see what country they are from. I wonder if most of them are from out of the USA. If that is the case, maybe their home country would be interested in their welfare?
The US is currently being run by a man with the exact same personal philosophy, delusion and sociopathology as LRH and DM. God help us if he learns or knows that there is a juggernaut Org out there with his belief systems.
Mike, how can I help?
Mike, it goes to show what a decent, honorable person you are that you have Marty Rathbun’s name in red instead of blue. Then again, I suppose we must give him some credit for his courage, initially, to speak out against Scientology (or more specifically against David Miscavige). It’s truly a shame that he had just drunk TOO much of the Kool-Aid to become free of the addiction permanently.
My opinion only of course…when it comes to M Rathbun is that he was as addicted to power as much as he was addicted to the Kool Aide. He was Miscaviges trained pit bull and he seemed to love it. He made many people’s lives a living nightmare and never seemed to show any genuine remorse for his behavior. I think he saw himself as the next ‘leader’ of Scientology…Using his notoriety to gain inroads back into Scientology and then try to oust Miscavige but he found out most people disliked him even more than DM. So then he tried the ‘Indie’ route and it seemed he got some traction there but I think the same thing started to happen…he wanted to be the ‘Leader’. I think he also saw himself as the absolute authority on Scientology and when newspapers and TV worked with other exes he couldn’t stand it. I don’t know exactly what happened between him and Mike but I do know that when Leahs show was green lighted and Rathbun made his ‘videos’ on YouTube and his blog descended into a chaos of adolescent rants the jealousy coming off of him was palpable. These are my opinions only of course.
As regards his escape from Scientology…it’s like the old ‘pie in the face’ routine. It stops being funny when it starts being you. He didn’t seem so outraged when others were chucked in the hole before him but when his turn came…well you know the rest.
And it’s a shame that Marty didn’t have the integrity to turn down a huge pay off to make him switch sides, or to fight blackmail if they were threatening to go public with something on him. This makes Mike look so much better in comparison in that Mike can’t be bought off and fights the good fight every day no matter what.
I AGREE COMPLETELY Cindy. Mike and all he is doing is the epitome of truth and freedom!!!
Wow! So many folks I knew back in my days “in”. Hope they’re in a better place now.
OMG this place needs to be raided
And raided soon!!!
Tom Vorm and Tom Willis were featured fairly recently in POW videos where they spoke about how great Dave Miscavige is (!):
https://www.davidmiscavige.org/videos/tom-vorm-on-david-miscavige.html
https://www.davidmiscavige.org/videos/tom-willis-on-david-miscavige.html
Also, is Lisa Schroer not out of the Sea Org? I’m sure you said in a couple of previous posts that she had left and was paid off.
PartTime SP. Grazie. I took a look at the videos.
Really both of them very spontaneous I would say. So funny!
From the way he speaks and moves his eyes Tom Vorm seems to have a shotgun pointed at his back and one behind the camera.
I have never heard so much stammering and stuttering…so many uses of ‘um’, ‘you know’, ‘and uh’, it’s it’s it’s…’ I mean if I were out there looking for a religion to join and started researching Scientology I would find these videos so natural and enlightening…NOT. The biggest religions in the world don’t have a vanity site specifically for their ‘spiritual leader’. There’s no Pope dot com website for Pope Francis (no Pope Francis dot com either)…there’s no vanity site for the Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson. You get the idea (hey OSA WAKE UP).
Poor Tom Vorm…he kept glancing to the left like someone was sitting there making sure he got it right. He looks like poor Mike did when he came out of the hole…emaciated, pale, sunken eyes all from poor diet, lack of sleep and stress. Like someone above said about their relative who was in the hole he looks like his ‘soul has been sucked out’. He only says the name “Mr. Miscavige” once and when he says it it sounds like a brick falling out of his mouth. He says “COB” once and “Mr. Miscavige” once. The rest of the time it’s “he” or “him”. He can’t even stand to say the b@stards name and no one making the video picked up on that.
In the Tom Willis video he keeps repeating that after years of working with COB he has learned to “go to the professionals” to get things done properly. So you gave your life to Scientology to learn that huh. He tries to look a little more enthusiastic in his POW video but it’s still obvious these guys are being coerced into doing this.
Neither video says anything about Miscaviges ability as an ‘ecclesiastical leader’ which I assume is why the website was put up in the first place. All these POW videos show is people being forced into saying something wonderful about Miscavige. So Tom Willis says in his video that he’s been there since the 80’s working on the archival project…and all he’s learned from DM is a few management strategies that you could glean from a high school business class? No ‘DM is the most charitable man I know. He would stop to help an injured dog. He loves people. He’s out there helping the world crisis by meeting with leaders of countries and offering our services. He’s feeding the poor and helping the homeless’…none of that. Just some tacky management ideas a 10th grader knows about…oh yeah DM never made it through high school.
Linear 13. You are just damn right. Tom Vorm looks to be under death penalty and to have a shotgun under his a*s. Scandalous to have postsd these videos.
DM is simply running a dictatorial regime. Fascism. Nothing else.
Linear 13. You hit it on the head on COB. The little pice of shit has NO credibility whatsoever. He never even gratulated the class 4 auditor training. And from all my personal encounters with him I KNOW WITH CERTAINTY he has not one ounce of empathy for anyone whatsoever. Well, himself excluded!
Rena Weinberg’s husband was asked where his wife was (many years ago) when no one had seen her in a while (she used to be a regular speaker at events). There was a time when Sea Org could be married to non Sea Org; that changed. He was a dentist and not in the Sea Org and at that point they might not have been married any more. Anyway, his answer was, “Don’t ask.”
Stories like this have become boring and trite to some – same ole, same ole. The church of scientology depends on its members not asking too many questions; it’s built on it. I only bother bringing it up because it’s another not-so-little tidbit of how the church of scientology is an organization built on fear and secrecy.
What most scientologists don’t know or bother to look at is that those names above are real human beings whose lives are being or have been destroyed in large part because not enough people in or out of this vile church have bothered to ask, “Where are they?”
Mary,
That’s a very poignant statement, especially your last line! It is easy, even for us who’ve watched from afar or been very active, to see them as names on a list that we’ve known about for some time.
Important to remember that everyone on that list is a son/daughter, sister/brother, perhaps even a mother or father. And how would any of us feel if that was the condition and location of our OWN mom, dad, brother, Grandpa… makes my heart hurt.
I think the close family members of Sea Org get conditioned, bit by bit, to not hearing from them, to not being informed about them. I think it happens bit by bit. No news, no card or call at Christmas, say. No response from the SO to a birthday card or gift the family sent. Occasional comm, very brief, very uninformative, all “good roads good weather” but no real communication. I think the families of these SO members get USED to that. The Sea Org girl or guy might even get married and (per orders) not tell the parents until after the fact – possibly long after the ceremony. Of course this is not normal but the family is being conditioned to being out of the loop. Information is sparsely and infrequently and unpredictably given out. The family won’t hear from the Sea Org family member on holidays, on birthdays or even in response to notices of funerals (Grandpa died, Aunt Sally is in a nursing home now, etc. etc.) The comm from the SO family member cannot be predicted as to when it will come. Then one day (by way of example) the family learns that the Sea Org family member was transferred out of the country 6 months ago. This is huge news! But by this time, although they might be sad, they’re not surprised as they’ve been conditioned to not being informed. They are resigned to this treatment. The absurd abnormality of it all has become their normal. Just my theory, based on a few facts relating to a families I know with kids in the SO.
This is exactly what happened to my uncle. It destroyed my grandparents. I have a cousin who I don’t know at all, who is now in prison due to the trauma and abuse he suffered at the hands of the cult his parents abandoned him to.
I keep laughing about Hubbard’s total stupidity about the Jesuits. He had a 17th Century view of an extreme group defending the Pope. In reality, modern Jesuits rebelled against the Pope in the 20th Century. As a Jesuit trained person, there is no way I would have agreed to sit in the hole waiting for Hubbard to give me eternal life. The first principle of a modern Jesuit which I learned in a Catholic College was question everything and rely on science. Then use faith if you want.
George,
I second your statement – as someone who spent 11.5 years in Jesuit schools, I can confirm your assessment.
Instead of A.M.D.G, the Jesuit motto should be “Ask Why” (though, ironically enough, that was Enron’s motto) or “Question Everything”
Many classes were taught using the Socratic method – asking why, in Hubbard’s world, was only acceptable to allow Hubbard to blather on – sure, one may ask Hubbard why, but woe be it to anyone who went beyond that.
Hubbard was more “ask why and listen to my rambling nonsensical response, but do not question beyond that”
Mike, I see Jenny Linson’s name on the list. Did she go to the HOle before or after she harrassed and stalked Marty at the airport with the two other attack dogs she came with?
Before and then back to the Hole. A few people (like me) were let out to do special assignments like deal with SPs or the media.
Mike,
In watching her special brand of “crazy” she really comes across as someone angry and bitter, for sure… but also as someone seemingly FRANTIC to make whatever she’s screaming about just stop. Almost as though if the other person “wins” or isn’t made wrong, there’s something she can’t begin to face or even as though her life genuinely depends on it.
Verbose and I’m sorry… just the frantic desperation comes through clearly with her, versus most others still-in, who simply seem emotionally disconnected or “shut off” to anything outside their reality… is something about her that makes her very different and harder to watch/hear.