By our regular guest contributor Terra Cognita.
See earlier Terra articles here: Scientology, Responsibility and David Miscavige, Exteriorization in Scientology, Scientology’s Only Hope… maybe, We Deliver What We Promise, Getting Emotional, Intention, Clear Schmear, Do Not Evaluate for the Preclear, The E-Meter, The Is-Ness of Is-Ness, Cause Over Life — Really?, BT’s in the Belfry, Two New Conditions!, The Condition of Liabilitiness, Condition of Doubtfulness The Mind, The Way To Happiness: Really? A Story, Auditing: a PC’s Quest for the Holy Grail, The Knowledge Report, Integrity, The Almighty Stat, The Reg, The Horrors of Wordclearing, Why Scientologists Don’t FSM, Respect, The Survival Rundown – The Latest Scam, Communication in Scientology… Or Not, Am I Still A Thetan?, To Be Or Not To Be, An Evaluation of Scientology, Fear: That Which Drives Scientology and Justification and Rationalization.
The Placebo Effect
The lead article in last month’s (Dec ’16) National Geographic Magazine is about the placebo effect, or as they subtitled the piece on the cover, “The Healing Power of Faith.”
Since everything is true on the Internet, I pulled this definition of the placebo effect: “a beneficial effect, produced by a placebo drug or treatment that cannot be attributed to the properties of the placebo itself, and must therefore be due to the patient’s belief in that treatment.”
For thousands of years humans have been going to “healers with the hope that they can make us feel better. And just as a good performance in a theater can draw us in until we feel we’re watching something real, the theater of healing is designed to draw us in by creating powerful expectations in our brains. These expectations drive the so-called placebo effect, which can affect what happens in our bodies as well.” NG. Scientists are now, “seeing placebos as a window into the neurochemical mechanisms that connect the mind with the body, belief with experience.” NG.
Three points: 1) certainly this is not a new topic. Many others within the Scientology blogosphere have spoken on the placebo effect; 2) whether the mind is a physical manifestation of chemical and electrical processes happening inside of our heads, or is of a spiritual nature located in another dimension, makes no difference; 3) the point of my essay is not whether Scientology tech works or not, but rather, it might not matter.
Stagecraft
“This stagecraft extends to many aspects of treatment and can operate on a subconscious level. Expensive placebos work better than cheap ones.” NG.
Wow. Does this mean that the more money one plunks down for therapy and the fancier the performance, the bigger the results? Many Scientologists who’ve reached the top of the Bridge have shelled out hundreds of thousands of dollars and report spectacular results and tremendous wins. Others…not so much. The whole, elaborate auditing procedure, including the e-meter, all the lists, and the precise commands adds to this level of drama.
“…one experiment showed that a supportive patient-practitioner relationship was key in creating belief in a successful outcome.” NG.
Connection and Cues
Wow 2.0. A good connection between auditor and PC is beneficial to a positive outcome. Crappy (technical term) auditors throw their PCs straight out of session.
Another scientist “designed an experiment to determine whether it was possible to use subliminal cues to condition subjects to experience a placebo effect,” and went on to say “that a placebo response can be conditioned subliminally.” NG.
Like walking into an auditing room and picking up a pair of cans? And hearing, “This is the session.” And later, “Your needle is floating.” The moment a person walks into a Scientology mission or org, he’s bombarded with subliminal cues.
Hardwired
“Belief is natural. It comes partly from the way our minds are hardwired,” wrote an anthropologist. The article said about her, “She says that belief-based healing requires not only a good story but also the effort of an active listener—one with the ability to make what is imagined feel real. When story and imagination sync, the results can be astounding.”
Auditors are certainly trained to be good listeners. And did anyone concoct a bigger “story” than LRH?
“So how does the theater of medicine actually work? How does a belief literally heal? One part of the puzzle involves conditioning.” “The placebo effect’s conditioned response in reaction to pain is to release brain chemicals—endorphins, or opium-like painkillers—synthesized in the body.”
In Scientology, PCs are conditioned or “grooved in” on what to expect in an auditing session. PC confronts pain and loss; decides not to be effect anymore; endorphins are released in the body; PC feels relief; auditor says, “Your needle is floating.”
Other Believers and Peer Pressure
Another scientist tested for “a third element influencing experiences of pain: other believers.” “The result was not surprising.” “What shocked Koban and Wager [two scientists running the experiments] was the sheer strength of the social influence: The effect was larger than might be expect after conditioning.” “Studies with fMRI machines implicated a separate, complementary network of brain activity that kicks in when conventional placebos are enhanced by peer pressure. Koban goes so far as to say that social information might be more powerful in altering the experience of pain than both conditioning and subconscious cues.”
Peer pressure in Scientology is huge. Parishioners are taught to accept LRH’s words as Gospel and are only allowed to talk about their positive experiences. Questioning the tech is frowned upon. Disputing the tech is not accepted. A third and fourth Dynamic group working to clear the planet can be an enormous “social influence.”
“The impact of the social group could help explain why religion might in a very literal sense be what Karl Marx defined as ‘the opiate of the people’: it can tap into the ability to access our own store of beliefs and expectations, especially when we’re surrounded by other believers who are doing the same.”
Scientologists naturally associate with each other because their “reality” has changed to a point where it becomes challenging to relate to non-believers.
Interestingly, according to other studies (not referenced in the National Geographic article), teens are more susceptible to the placebo effect than adults. Per this, it makes sense that young people would be easier to entice into Scientology than their older cousins.
Conditioning
By the time a PC picks up his first set of cans, he’s been conditioned to believe that LRH is the Source of all knowledge and that Scientology processes work flawlessly. In fact, by the time a PC goes in session, he has to promise he’s not there to “see if Scientology works.” By the time he sits down across from his auditor, he expects to be cured of what’s ruining his life; he anticipates going Clear; he envisions becoming OT, and finally mastering the physical universe.
It’s indisputable that many people have benefited from auditing and have had big wins. Many swear by LRH’s tech. The question is, were they helped as a direct result of LRH’s methods, or were his processes secondary to a powerful individual belief? Which is more important? Does it matter? Is there any difference?
As long as a person believes he’s erasing past–life pictures in a “reactive” mind, does it matter if the incidents are imaginary? Or that the auditing process is arbitrary? And that the man who developed it was flawed?
Just like patients benefiting from sugar pills, I suspect that for PCs to get the most gains, they have to fully believe in the tech.
Belief
In the end, it may be that what is most important is not whether LRH’s tech has been proven scientifically to work, but that the person holding the cans believes that it works and that his life will improve.
Maybe this is why I didn’t have the big wins in session that others did. I wasn’t able to unconditionally accept that these past life images in my mind were real and not imaginary. I’m probably the sort of person for which placebos don’t work—or at least not as well as they do on others.
If one strongly believes in Scientology therapy and is promised that a particular process will rid him of his phobia, he will envisage that fear disappearing, being gone, and never bothering him again. And every time his auditor tells him his needle is floating, he will believe he’s that much closer to having achieved that goal.
Is Scientology auditing a case of “mind over matter?” Simple the result of a PC talking himself out of what’s bothering him? Or is his relief due to the intricately worded process? Or a combination of both?
Last Words
The placebo effect teaches us that if people believe there’s a chance that some form of therapy will help, they will hope, pray, and postulate with all their might to make sure the treatment is successful. Especially, surrounded by others with the same goals urging them on. And especially after having plunked down big piles of money to cure them.
I’m not saying Scientology tech works or that it’s one big sugar pill. I’m just suggesting that the placebo effect is real and that people may benefit either way.
Still not Declared,
Terra Cognita
To continue on Truth Teller and Foolproof. I understand and share most of your viewpoint. But it is a kind of truth that placebo effect works, maybe it is the basic thing which works. It’s only offending for Big Pharma who are selling medicine and says that’s work. The truth about placebo effect will hurt their wallet, not this of Scientology or of any spiritual activity similar to Scientology.
Hubbard says that Thought is senior to MEST. When this is said all is said. Tech comes from this basic postulate. When the PC changes his mind and feel more free on a subject he has a case gain. When the ability is permanent, he no longer needs auditing to keep his freedom. It’s full placebo effect, with no pills.
Foolproof and Truth Teller are sadly right on a point : degradation of Hubbard and the tech just serve the Homunculus (I love this term, but what about Goebbels Junior?). If someone fom the church read Mike’s blog he can conclude that church propaganda is right : it’s an SP blog. So they will remain under the yoke of Miscavige, bleeding their wallet, separating families, badly overruning people on squirrel Not’s, making more and more ennemies for scientology, until the time scientology and Hubbard are looking like bad jokes.
This time has come, scientology is ruined, scientologist are ruined and Miscavige still making money !
That’s a big flunk.
You scientology attacker actually are objective allies (you know this marxist term ?) to Homunculus.
This is why it would be not impossible to imagine that some of you might be OSA operative !
The world is full of SP, that’s Miscavige thought. Inverted 2,5% !
If one in the church or out of the church knows the PTS tech (after studying at least 5 time de course) he could detect Miscavige as THE SP (and there maybe some behind the curtain) And it’s also obvious that scientology is pressured from both side, Miscavige and anti. Being a paranoid like my dear Hubbard I would have the tendency to say that this is a carefully planned scenario!
But Mike believe it’s all natural, he dismissed all complotist idea. And Mike Rinder is an opinion leader and truly I do love him, but I dare point the outpoints (I am great lover of Data Series).
People were leaving the church in drove around 2012 with Marty’s blog. At this time fully pro tech and anti Miscavige. Even the 31 points (of Miscavige usurper and dictator) have dissapeared from his blog. Did he make a transaction with chruch’s lawyer ? I wouldn’t blame him. Sometime one needs a rest!
But there is no longer any coming out of people leaving the church. This stat is terribly down, means that the stat of Miscavige is up ! That’s a crime ! Because if there was anything good in scientology Miscavige has smashed it. It’s true that people in the church and out of the church are, I am sorry to say, a bunch of ignorant. They did scientology and never understood it.
I am not a kool aid of any kind, I am not and never was an Hip hip idiot, but let me tell you with utter dogmatisme that you just missed the subject.
So my dear Terra sometime you bring up subject which are fully answered in the tech. But you have a way to show outpoints which are really interesting, but I answer and says : please, don’t shoot scientology and Hubbard too hard. There was so many people with wins and Hubbard did his best even if he was sometime wrong, “El con”, did what he did in good faith, with a willingness to help. And we still can use auditing tech to help people.
I have been auditing PCs for thousand of hours. Dianetics, grades, life repair, auditing repair. In the church and as a field auditor. It was not all easy, but many time very swift and for huge wins. One could say that there was some church propaganda which have put them into the right frame of mind. Why to deny ? it’s a cultural matter.
But let me tell you something. I was having a walk with someone I know professionnaly. He had no idea of scientology or that I ever was a scientologist. He said, he was sad and depressed. I listened to him. He didnt know why such sadness, he was crying.
I made him to point where was the sadness, he pointed out a point in space, there ! (god I could see the read !) and I say “ask that point what’s happen ?” He fell in tears and told me a story of a loss from a being who was on his space until the being was release and left to his destiny. My friend was so amazed, he asked me what was this therapy. I said it’s scientology ! He wouldn’t believe it. But I had to tell him all the story, including the treason of Miscavige.
And you know what, because we practiced scientology, there are so many clears out there. When the tyrant will be gone, there will be a tremendous work to do to rehab the subject.
The problem with your theory is this.
Trying to appeal to “in the church” scientologists accomplishes absolutely nothing. You claim a mass exodus due to Marty Rathbun. Earlier there was a “mass exodus” due to David Mayo. Throughout the history of scientology there have been some who have left due to finding a “better brand” of scientology outside the church. I do not doubt this is a fact.
What is also a fact is that this has had NO EFFECT in ending abuses. Nothing.
What IS effective is this.
Widespread exposure of those abuses. Activating the millions of “ex-scientologists” (of which there are MANY more than current scientologists which should tell you something) and interesting tens of millions of “never-scientologists” to rise up and end the abuse.
Current church members looking for somewhere to do more scientology for less money in a kinder and gentler environment can find that without much trouble. I have promoted the Dror Center and continue to do so. Along with others like Trey Lotz. I have absolutely no beef with them. In fact, I greatly appreciate their efforts to help people. There is even a blog they can go to — MS 2 — that I have NEVER criticised.
But I am not going to ignore the bigger picture of what needs to be done in order to make people like you happy that I am appealing appropriately to current scientologists. Frankly, at this point, I would be the LAST place anyone who believes in scientology and is in the church currently would look.
My strategy is clearly different than your strategy. You have every right to do as you see fit and I bear you no ill will. Start up your own blog or support MS 2 or whatever you feel is going to help. But don’t waste my time offering your advice on how I should or should not run my life.
This IS an SP blog. I AM an SP. That horse long ago left the scientology barn. I’m not going to try and convince them otherwise. And I don’t care to even try. I am not beholden to their rules or yours for that matter.
You guys who believe I am “NCG” or “working for OSA” are insignificant in the overall scheme of things. For each of you there are literally millions who now understand that something needs to be done to put an end to the abuses of scientology.
Dear Mike, I understand you want to end the abuse so do I. And I don’t pretend to be active on that, no more than I was an active militant in the church. Auditing was fun yes. But I left.
I also, as a public, was abused. Believe it or not, I was restricted in the Feewind after having wondered to the MAA if OT9 and 10 actually existed (in 1989) I am a naturally born ennemy of Miscavige, and I am OT and trained, and also a deep ennemy of all kind of bureaucrates, robots and all, just that you understand my profil.
Now, how are we going to end the abuse ? To my sense, it would be to dismiss Miscavige, and then to do a demiscavigization like destalinization in Russia. He is a fascist, simply and I believe that without him the situation wouldn’t be at all like that. He is, to me, of the same brand than Hitler. And when Hitler was out, Germany recovered.
Miscavige hide behind Hubbard, like Hitler was pretending to be Germany. They are impostors.
On the early days of Marty’s blog, there was a big differentiation between Miscavige and the subject of scientology, Marty was auditing people. And they were leaving the church, knowing the church was corrupted, but the subject of scientology was still ok. So they had nothing to loose leaving the church.
I don’t pretend to tell you in no way how to live your life or to run your blog. I just say that the stat of people leaving the church was better with a pro tech viewpoint. Because if enough people leave the church it will end the abuse for good, and finally Miscavige will be dismissed. Or do you think there is any other reason for the abuse than Miscavige ?
Do you think we can at the end get Miscvige out from the outside? Yes there will be conjunction from in and out. But I am concerned of ending the abuse, but also trying not to destroy scientology completly on the process…
Personnaly I think it’s the character of Miscavige. Sadly enough, one authoritarian personnality at the top of a state or a great group can do terrible evil.
I don’t think those abuse are in the ADN of scientology or of Hubbard. He was not a fascist type, but that’s my personnal affinity with him. But who could deny in good faith that scientology can help ?
Most of my very dear friends have disconnected from me. Fortunately my wife and kids followed me out. We were always bad scientologists ! kool aid was never in our vein!
Jews said “next year in Jerusalem”, I would say next year without Miscavige! But I’m affraid the world is heading toward worst trouble than this little tyrant.
And I applaud to what you are doing to end the abuse.
Now, how are we going to end the abuse ? To my sense, it would be to dismiss Miscavige, and then to do a demiscavigization like destalinization in Russia.
Do you have a plan? OR just continue to tell everyone “it needs to be done”?
No, I have no plan, as I told you I never was a militant. Lot’s of talk, no action ! But to have a general idea is a beginning…. And you, how do you see that?
And I don’t in any way try to convince you of anything. I just speak freely my mind and I thank you for that.
FG, the abuses are on there way out because the lies and dangerous doctrines of L Ron Hubbard are being revealed for the first time in such a large public audience.
The more people read How Scientology Deals With Critics: L Ron Hubbard’s Play Book the safer our citizens will be from this hate ridden and fearful church.
The abuses are loosing their sting to the degree that Hubbard’s lies, falsehoods and doctrines of destroy the critics, have sunshine aimed at its darkness.
This darkness is not sourced in DM.
To understand this darkness and to destroy understand why this “church” needs to be taken down; go no further than Ron’s own words.
L Ron Hubbard’s words have made tyrants in the name of the greatest good.
The more the world knows of the truth of Hubbard, the safer our citizens will be.
FG, according to Western Hemisphere records IN the Church, by 1976 there were more ex scamologists than there were ACTIVE scamologists.
THAT shows that the problem of scamology didn’t originate with DM.
Wynski and Brian, I started scientology in 1972. I wouldn’t deny that there was some Miscavige type of person in the GO mostly, but the org ws so busy and there was wins.
It all changed in 1982.
Before it was scientology, including the cult aspect. By 1983 it was no longer scientology.
“Critics of scientology” is taken from a lecture, been upgraded to be a policy in a time which is more than 50 years ago.
Time have changed, this policy makes no sense now.
FG, Hubbard was a criminal sociopath. That has been PROVEN with real evidence. I have NO idea what you are trying to say otherwise.
Happy New Year Mike
I simply had to reply to this posting from this chappy.
It is one of the best articles I have ever read from someone who wishes to destroy most cleverly, any therapy that could and does improve humanity.
Scientology and Dianetics work.
I am sorry if this upsets people, er well actually I am not sorry at all.
I may have some misunderstood but I thought that Mike Rinder’s blog was to inform the field of current goings on within the Church of Scientology and in particular its crazy leader:
David (The Homunculus) Miscaviage.
This really is the wrong place for rabid ravings about LRH and the Technology, especially from people who appear to have no ability to make case gain.
That forum is the Ex-Scientology message board. Enough entheta there to keep you going until your body drops.
Its rather borong to keep hearing all the failures complaining about things.
Oh some poor dears had ten hours of Dianetics and cannot exteriorize with full perception.
Another may have had Grade III but still gets upset, again how sad it all is.
I seem to remember LRH stating 50% from Training and 50% from processing.
I still meet people who have virtually no understanding of the actual principles of the technology.
It is all covered in HCOPL Keeping Scientology Working.
I think some people just want to watch the world burn, and there are many here on this blog that are of this mindset.
OR should I say REACTIVE MINDSET!
If people fall for the line of this Terra chap then “The Homunculus” wins every time.
I am pretty much sure he is affilitated with the OSA as having heavily trained myself in Dept III and owning ALL of the old GO’s materials and procedures he is doing what he is supposed to do.
That would be making sure any churchie who reads this blog will conclude it is nothing more than an anti-Scientology site and move back into the safety net the “The homunculus” provides.
Oh and Mike, do me a favour and please do not fall for the old line of this is “free speech” and entitled comments.
What he is saying is utter crap, and you know that you have made case gain yourself so surely that in itself puts his rubbish in the bin where it belongs.
I now await the monstrous amount of attacks this comment will surely bring.
Happy new Year to you all Even you Terra as HCO does have the power to forgive.
Not that I did much of that when I was in it LOL
Yes, you do have “some misunderstood.” And sorry to disappoint, I do “fall for the old line of this is “free speech” and entitled comments.” I kind of like the idea of free speech.
Like Foolproof, you make a very poor impression of the supposed good scientology does. You dismiss everyone with a different opinion than you as “no case gain” and “ignorant.”
Wow. The idea that you can not learn anything from anyone who is not a fully trained and audited scientologist is pretty narrow-minded, if not downright sad.
Now, as for that “free speech” inclination of mine. You are the beneficiary of it here today.
New comers……… it’s time for pop corn. This is how Scientologists deal with being challenged. The demonize and attack the person.
We are fortunate that they are hear posting. They are extremely instructive.
These are the folks who are highly trained in Scientology and have lived in the bubble for their whole lives.
This is what happens to you when you study and believe Ron for decades. With some, there is actual hate. The hate is justified.
They see L Ron Hubbard as the only person to ever find the REAL truth.
If you want to know how they got like this, read the link on Mike’s blog called:
HOW SCIENTOLOGY DEALS WITH CRITICS: THE L RON HUBBARD PLAYBOOK
You will see an exact reflection of Fool Proof and Truth Teller.
When you read these evil doctrines there will be no more mystery as to how their personalities developed.
Scientologists consider themselves masters of communication.
Yet on close inspection of their reaction to Terra’s post, there is not one response or idea that counters her actual ideas.
It’s an attack of the person. That’s how Ron dealt with critics. Just ask Paulette Cooper.
Someone who is a master at communication would have made a counter argument against the idea that Scientology is a placebo effect. Then an adult dialog would happen.
People who are trained to attack are not communicators.
“When debate is lost, slander is the tool of the loser”
Attacking critics:
It’s just what Scientologists do
You write very well Brian and I thank you for allowing us peons to understand more and to help anyway we can.
Dear Peon, I am sure you and Brian won’t be at all successful in destroying Scientology but hey, you can always try! (You’ve got Miscavige on your side so you might have a slim chance!) Keep up the bad work and when it all gets tough try some of Brian’s meditation – it works wonders, calms you down no end and puts you straight into the still parts of implants.
So Scientologists respond by name calling eh? And yet here we have Brian calling me “Fool Proof” instead of “Foolproof”. You got that one in sneakily did you not “Brain”? Tut, tut, double standards eh!
Another load of drivel from Terra Uncognita. He or she is appealing again to those who didn’t make adequate case gain (either due to no auditing or sloppy auditing, or who by their own overts have excluded themselves from doing so) by implying that even if one wasn’t in any of these categories and did make case gain then maybe it was all dub-in and peer pressure. He injects the “calming” statements (to the effect) that many have made case gain and that this is not a discussion about whether the tech works (which of course it is) and this attracts comments like flies around doo-doos from those who are in a similar position to him and they can then vent their own frustrations (or so they think) by trying to spoil the party for those who do want to make case gain or have had such. The only “peer pressure” that is going on here is by watching the comments roll out on an automatic conveyor belt of entheta and commenters vying with each other as to who can make even more nonsense from his nonsense.
What I find even more ridiculous is that he presents his arguments as if they were some sort of erudite, deeply thought out scientific observations and the bottom-feeders leap up and take the hook, wriggle around for a bit, have their own deprecating say, and wriggle off the hook back to the bottom of the pond waiting for the next juicy bait of his (not even cleverly) disguised entheta and/or mis-comprehension which almost invariably his articles are composed of. In one of his articles about auditing a while back he made some statements or “asked questions” about Dianetics or engrams or something and said he had completed the old HSDC (Dianetics) course, and which when I pointed out that all of his non-comprehensions and questions were very adequately answered within the (quite basic) materials of the HSDC and thus which meant he had gone by gross misunderstandings on the course, didn’t go down well with his fellow camp-followers and supporters.
What my comment will attract now in terms of counter-comments and gasps of disbelief and chagrin – that someone could dare to point out that the new great God of Mis-Comprehension Terra is nothing other than some dude with basic misunderstandings on the technology and who needs to get some intensive auditing (in the independent field, or wherever) so that his unrealities will finally become his realities, will confirm everything that I have said above. And why don’t all you bleaters go and get some intensive auditing – there are plenty of practitioners now in the field – and stop bleating and trying to spoil the party for others?
By the way, before you reactively assume that I am some sort of Church troll working for OSA those who know my commenting will have realized that another dude (Miscavige) who is trying to (or actually has spoiled) the party for others, receives far worse than the mild criticism I give Terra above. Go and get some auditing – you know it makes sense! Ha!
Well, after not hearing from you for a while… Your return is with a bang.
You realize that this is simply ad hominem? Terra is wrong. Terra needs auditing. Terra has MUs. Terra is catering to bottom feeders. This is the scientology way. It is the sort of thing they say about me all day long. And never respond to what is actually being said.
It’s not a good look for anyone. Though apparently scientologists of all colors and levels seem to think it is a winning strategy.
I hope nobody else feels the need to respond so I don’t have to read and moderate people jumping to the defense of Terra, who really needs no defense.
I am not here to defend TC nor to engage in a debate. I only wish to have my longstanding curiosity satisfied. Foolproof, please define, “case gain” and give specific examples of it in terms of your experience.
Personally a palpable result (i.e. one that others cannot question) is that my IQ has increased from 125 when I started in Scientology to now 152 at last test some many years ago now. So I am a genius! Ha! And before you say who tested it it was tested from the main IQ “club”. Again personally, as you seem interested in finding out – I never get ill. I never get colds. I don’t have headaches. I don’t have strange thoughts. I don’t have a need to take drugs or alcohol nor medicinal drugs such as aspirin, which probably most human beings do these days. All of these (negative) things I had before becoming a Scientologist. All of the Grade EPs (easiest is just to read them), I have. I am very self-confident (my wife says sometimes unbearably so – ha!) I have performed so-called “OT abilities” (I did “old” OT7) but I won’t go into that as my replies are frightening enough to detractors and they might start looking over their shoulders! Haha!
With my Org admin training I can get and hold down good highly paid jobs. I could go and on (as is my wont) but that will do – I am not writing an article here.
As well as me personally I have seen many, many people who have changed their lives for the better because of the technology of Dianetics and Scientology. For just one minor example I have seen people who were quiet and somewhat introverted who – after they had Grade 0 were totally different – extroverted, talkative and very happy that they were so now. I have seen snappy, churlish people turn into quite “nice” people after doing Grade II, no more unwarranted hostility towards others. All these results were quite objective and others agreed that they were observable in the physical universe. I could list probably dozens if not hundreds of examples if I really thought about it, as could many others commenting here. I worked in Tech and Qual for years so I have seen people personally, changing before my eyes.
On a minor (?) little point I remember overhearing in a shop I was in someone who had been hiccuping for 3 days and it would not stop. I simply said to her “stop resisting it” and of course it stopped straight away and she asked me how I had done that. It was a miracle for her (she said) but fairly straightforward for me with my Scientology training. This is the sort of thing that Jesus became famous for so you can see that just with this little example in comparison we are talking indeed of “miracles” to any technology that ever existed before.
But quite frankly I am not really that interested in bothering about replying to all these demands about “prove to me that it works” – no one owes these people who demand that anything. Which somewhat gainsays my comments above but whatever… Why are those who reply to them bothering to do so? It is falling on deaf ears. They don’t want to hear it and hope that you won’t actually take the trouble to prove evidence of it doing so, or if you can be bothered to produce evidence that anyone can see they will say that it is not really “evidence” and re-define the word to suit their agendas. Etc. etc.They seem desperate to prove that the subject does not work. Why? What is their agenda, or their fears?
I haven’t asked you to prove scientology works. I merely asked you to explain what “case gain” is in your own words and in your own experience. As best I can make out from your comment, case gain is a “palpable result” and in your experience that includes an increased IQ score, never getting colds or headaches, no need to take drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, attaining the Grades EP’s, unbearable (to your wife sometimes) self-confidence and OT abilities such as the time you cured a woman of a three day hiccuping episode by simply telling her to stop resisting it. Your training has enabled you to hold down high paying jobs.
As you didn’t have these attributes prior to scientology those attributes are “gains” in your “case”. That is quite impressive indeed. I only wish my old friend Mario Feninger who also did old OT 7, could have experienced a fraction of your gains. Or any of the other OT’s I used to know in the pre-David Miscavige days. But anyway, thank you for answering my question.
Yes, I am a very well-audited and very well-trained “case” and this is exactly my point. My second somewhat subsidiary point is that the technology works if applied. This is why I defend it because, as the saying goes at the Examiner’s desk “would you like others to achieve the gains that you have?”, to which I always replied “I do”.
My third (not yet really mentioned above) point is that Scientology is a workable technology and yet here we have people attacking “Scientology” by confusing this with the depredations that Miscavige’s church has inflicted on people, probably including your OT friends who have undoubtedly been hauled over the coals by Harvey and his thug gang and executive “C/Ses” at FSO. Me and a few of the people I know could have sorted them all out in a few days and a few sessions.
But we also have people attacking the technology as well, and quite frankly they are despicable and should be shot from the guns (that they have leveled on themselves anyway).
Getting very tired of having to read dozens of long-winded non-sequitur comments from you. If you think me quoting L. Ron Hubbard is “attacking scientology” then your very well-audited and very well-trained self has resulted in you being completely unable to differentiate things = (by Hubbard’s definition) insane.
I think you are someone who simply likes to see people respond to you. There are people who love attention all over social media. They will say whatever gets a rise out of people.
I know you would protest this, but there are a lot of new people reading this blog and the numerous comments you wrote that are sitting here for me to read this morning make you look obsessed and unhinged. You think you are helping defend the good of scientology. Believe me you are convincing the uninformed that ALL scientologist, in or out of the church lose any sense.
Time for you to start your own blog where you can say whatever you want. Your comments are becoming a distraction here. I am going to just approve them all this one last time and not allow ANY follow up responses to them. You will have the last word, all you said is sitting there for the world to see and everyone can come to their own conclusions about what image of Scientology you represent.
My personal and sincere advice to you is to take a break and stop obsessing over what some people say on a blog that you disagree with. Get on with living the life YOU want to live instead of trying to convince others they are wrong for thinking and feeling the way they do about their experiences.
Mike, it has nothing to do with replying in the “Scientology way”. You are maybe confusing (real) Scientologists with fakes like Miscavige, whom maybe you spent too much time around – now that dude really knows ad hominem, does he not? Terra takes a lot of trouble to point out what he sees as flaws and presenting arguments, such as not really knowing whether he or others have made case gain – so I reply, well, this is not in my experience and thousands of others so go and get some proper auditing then. He broached the subject, not me! He made statements about what he thinks is the “tech” of Dianetics that he thinks he knows yet his statements are answered in the materials of the course that he did, so, yes, he does have misunderstoods, at least on that course. His comments on the meter were also grossly flawed, so yes, he does have misunderstoods. So if I said 2 + 2 = 5 and you said “no you have misunderstoods”, is that ad hominem? Hardly is it, and that is all I am doing here.
So on the one hand, Terra, because he writes you a nice “cosy” article which a lot of your readers can pounce on and chew on for days, can say what he wants, yet, when I point out the flaws in his arguments and reverse the flow on his generalized ad hominem comments against Scientologists – i.e. those who have made case gain and who DO understand their materials, my remarks are considered to be ad hominem. Do you want a discussion here or do you just want anti-Scientologists to spew forth their anti-Scientology and (actually ad hominem) comments against Scientologists and Hubbard in particular, and not allow others to respond or when they do, cast the aspersion that the replies are ad hominem as if that is some sort of “leprosy”.
On the other hand it is really possible to avoid being even somewhat ad hominem in these types of discussions? For example look at the names I am called, yet alone Hubbard. Don’t worry me! Marie with her comment just below thinks I am brainwashed. Is that not ad hominem? So she can call me brainwashed (with no censure from you) yet when I simply say Terra has MisUs that is “politically incorrect”?
Perhaps we should all let go and “have at thee knave” with the good old ad hominem. Your web site stats would soar! Haha!
Talk about being brainwashed. Goodness! When they turn on you, and they will, you will wake up and think for yourself.
Who are “they”? I think you might have me confused with someone else, or someone whom you think I am.
Foolproof: Thanks for jumping in. First of all, I don’t claim to be erudite, particularly scientific, or smarter than anyone else. I do like looking at things LRH wrote through a different set of eyes than I used to view his stuff with. If nothing else, it’s fun dissecting a piece of tech, thinking of examples of how it works and how it doesn’t, whether it’s fully logical or is lacking. For years, I wasn’t allowed to talk about this. Now I can.
Your argument seems to be that you don’t like the way I present these topics, that I’m not fair, that I’m biased. Okay. I really don’t care all that much what people think of me.
That’s said, I would invite you to discuss the topic at hand. I think readers of Mike’s blog would be much more interested on someone’s take who’s had such phenomenal wins as you. You’d make a much bigger impact if you logically explained why the placebo effect has nothing to do with Scientology than by blasting me.
You’re a well-spoken guy and it’s beneath you to use the argument that the readers of this blog simply have misunderstood words, have never had adequate case gain, and are sitting on overts. You can do better. If some aspect of Scientology works, tell us why in your own words. If you don’t agree with something, tell us why. Contribute to the discussion.
Firstly as to the placebo effect, this is purely your invention. It is the first time I have ever heard Scientology being associated or rather disassociated with this. You can go on ad infinitum by associating some (negative) thing with Scientology and say, for instance, “are Scientologists nuts for wanting auditing?” or “are Scientologists lacking self-confidence by wanting to change?” Scientology has (or perhaps rather had when I was doing it “officially”), countless checks and reviews to make sure that people were getting the gains they should have (which other “therapy” does such?) Either people have had the gains or they haven’t. Next you will raise the question of “if a tree fell down in St Hill but no Scientologist were there to hear it, did they write Success Stories on doing so?” or “is the table we see in the corner really there?” Your theory is about the same level of logic.
As to your point that I am using the supposed “Scientology way” of arguing with you by saying you have MisUs, again I replied on this above to Mike and I don’t see anything particularly wrong with my counter-arguments. I get the feeling here that you are trying to get readers on your side by making out and repeating that I am doing something “taboo”, but which you, from the contents and claims from your articles, are ENGAGING IN WITH GUSTO! You are just doing it in a round-about way by implying that maybe the tech doesn’t work and maybe it “was all illusion”. You (and Mike) are cleverly juxtaposing my quite straightforward and simple counter-arguments as being some sort of rabid frothing at the mouth rant. I am sure that people with MisUs don’t like having this pointed out to them, initially anyway, but it doesn’t then exclude the fact they have got MisUs does it? You yourself state more or less that you aren’t sure about your case gains and open the question up for debate, so when I propose the usual solution to this you imply that I shouldn’t do so and that this is somehow poor form. But you brought up your case in the first place! Your articles in general are, more or less, saying “Scientology is wrong”, or, to be somewhat kinder “could be wrong”. Yet when I say “no, no, you are wrong and here is the reason why as you have misunderstood something”, you (and Mike) then reply that I cannot say someone is wrong. Really this is a case of double standards here, if that is the right phrase.
And I would not be surprised if sooner or later I am called a “fundamentalist” (actually Mike has already called me that) or a Scientology Nazi. And I have been called all sorts of names on here with no censure, yet when I defend Hubbard and the technology it seems that other have a carte blanche to call me all the names under the sun! Actually I do rather like the M2 web site but I am not associated with them as such. Yet when I say (the extremely benign in comparison) “you have MisUs” or “get your case handled” (that you and other people first mention and complain about – not me) that is somehow vile and improper. I am currently “brainwashed” according to Marie.
I will round off my rather long “rant” now by stating that if you get so easily upset by the somewhat minor and trivial statements of “you have MisUs” and “get your case handled”, I suggest you get your Grade III (upsets) handled and buy a tech dictionary, and retrain your HSDC, tout de suite! Now, am I joking here? Haha! Sorry, couldn’t resist it! Another “haha!”
Now if you want “ad hominem” just ask Mike for a few choice anecdotes under daily life with Miscavige and his gang of thugs. And you complain about my totally innocuous remarks in comparison! Jeez! Let us actually put things in perspective here.
A very insightful article, Terra.
Well done.
I believe Scientology is a combination of placebo effect and understanding the cause of certain types of mind structures.
When in session, a Scientology counseling, the patient remembers a specific something that clarifies an real issue; that’s a real intelligence based experience. Not an auto suggestion or placebo.
So for instance, if I am stealing from my employer and I start to become secretive with my fellow employees for fear of being found out and my experience in the work place becomes stressful because of my secret; finding that source “over” (sin) with an auditor (counselor) can bring me relief. That is, if I repent of that action and vow to be good.
That is a good thing.
But if I am in session (counseling) and I equate the pain in my stomach with space aliens when the real cause is bad diet; that is placebo looneyville.
I believe that L Ron Hubbard had command of the placebo effect.
I believe he used it to his advantage to increase paying membership.
This below writing from L Ron Hubbard is evidence that know only did he know about having power over others through influence (placebo), but that is was a………….
MASTER EXPERT IN THE ART AND SCIENCE OF IT
When reading this writing on Altitude Instruction Ron is talking about the hypnotic operator. Read this below writing as if Ron is talking about himself having this knowledge and applying this knowledge to his disciples.
Read it in the first person. Because this is how L Ron Hubbard created what he did.
He KNEW what he was doing.
ALTITUDE INSTRUCTION by L Ron Hubbard
“In altitude teaching, somebody is a ‘great authority.’ He is probably teaching some subject that is far more complex than it should be. He has become defensive down through the years, and this is a sort of protective coating that he puts up, along with the idea that the subject will always be a little better known by him than by anybody else and that there are things to know in this subject which he really wouldn’t let anybody else in on. This is altitude instruction … It keeps people in a state of confusion, and when their minds are slightly confused they are in a hypnotic trance. Anytime anybody gets enough altitude he can be called a hypnotic operator, and what he says will act as hypnotic suggestion. Hypnotism is a difference in levels of altitude. There are ways to create and lower the altitude of the subject, but if the operator can heighten his own altitude with regard to the subject the same way, he doesn’t have to put the subject to sleep. What he says will still react as hypnotic suggestion.” (Hubbard, Research & Discovery, volume 4, p.324)12
Finding the source OVERT not “over”. Misspelling sorry.
In Scientology the word overt can be equated with the word sin.
I believe one of the most hypnotic, placebo inducing and manipulating writings of L Ron Hubbard (and they are legion) is Hymn of Asia.
It came out in the early 70s at a time in America that metaphysical life styles were growing exponentially in America.
As a result of the Beatles introducing meditation in the west, various schools of thought were emerging.
Yoga and Buddhism were on the upswing.
Ron thought to cash in on this by writing Hymn of Asia. This book of fancy and conscious deceit sought to bring into his fold all of us ripe baby boomers.
In Hymn of Asia Hubbard states that he is the prophet that the Buddha predicted would incarnate and further and complete his work.
Think of the Altitude he created for himself. Ron knew how to manipulate the placebo effect.
So many of us believed him when he said he was the fulfillment of Buddha’s prophecy.
Hymn of Asia is proof positive that Hubbard created the ultimate Altitude in which to manipulate our young minds.
The term that describes Hubbard perfectly for me is:
HYPNOTIC OPERATOR
As I recall Brian, did not the Buddha state that his work would be completed in the west about the middle of the 20th century by a red haired man? I seem to remember the quote coming from an independent source other than the pen of L Ron Hubbard. Perhaps you might like to find the quote and present this for all to see before you spout off as above. I stand to be corrected but then again I don’t have a big deal on this, as you seem to do. I don’t give a hoot if Hubbard was the reincarnated Buddha or not as we now have the Tech Volumes. But I can see this would thoroughly piss you off it was found to be true though and would spoil your little party piece above, so we will see what you come up with on this eh?
Unless of courses there was another red-haired man who invented a spiritual and mental technology in the western hemisphere in the mid 20th century? Can’t think of any others. Hmmm!
He was not a stupid man even though he looked it. This is blowing my mind. I can not imagine what you must of gone through.
Bless
Ron was a creative genius.
His down side was that he was morally corrupt and thus spiritually bankrupt.
There is not one valid path of the spirit that does not have the dos and don’ts as a prerequisite to higher learning. The Scientologist’s moral code is the “greatest good”. Which actually means creating a Scientology planet.
The other attempt at ethical living for the Scientologist is the definition of Integrity. Ron says basically “what’s true for you is true. And expressing what’s true for you is integrity.”
This attempt at integrity has a huge flaw. What if I am a bank robber and what’s true for me is not being caught robbing banks?
So you see, in Ron’s version of ethics there is not an injunction to follow common standards of decency.
Ron’s integrity is really an ode to ego. What’s true for you is true. That does not take into account that a truth seeker is asked to find behaviors outside of self.
“If its true for you it’s true” doesn’t take into account that your “truth” may be based on a selfish delusion. That is why in all religious and spiritual thought there are spiritual commandments that seekers use to align their lives to higher standards of decency
In Christianity there are the Ten Commandments
In Buddhism the Eight Fold Path
In Hinduism the Eight Limbs of Yoga
Spiritual teachers do not teach to their students to follow the whims of ego. Although these above religions are different, on close inspection you will see they are all basically saying the same thing:
Lead a good life
Love your neighbor
Love God (or however you define that)
Serve others
Don’t be selfish
Be honest
Don’t lie
Don’t be deceptive
So you see, L Ron Hubbard did not teach us to default to higher standards of decency as taught by the wise. The only standard was an ego standard: if it’s true for YOU it’s true. And that can mean anything.
Here are some quotes from Ron regarding morality:
“We are not moralists”
“I am not interested in wog morality”
L Ron Hubbard
The term wog is a derogatory term assigned to non Scientologists.
I believe it was a racist term the English gave to dark skinned people from India. I believe that’s the source.
Actually I had fun being a Scientologist. The social life was fun. But for me I out grew it. I started seeing Ron as he was. A spiritual con man. And I wanted to continue to grow on my path to knowledge.
And because I always believed in God and always had an inner sense of spiritual confidence and moral rudder, it made it easy for me to leave.
Actually, leaving Scientology was my greatest win being a Scientologist.
The hard part was sorting out the lies from the truths that I learned.
I may still be learning those lessons.
Brian, thank you for the clarity of your statement. gary
Brian,
Why is scientology considered a religon and yet you believed in God?
Many from what’s I’ve read so far are happy that they did but happier they are out. Is that from the therapy and how to deal with life? Isn’t that psychiatriy at itsome best ,disguised as religion ..
X JW
Cathy
Canada
I had a spiritual life before Scientology. I entered into Scientology believing that Ron Hubbard was the fulfilled prophecy of Buddha.
I was also only 18 years old. Very naive and searching.
My God connection was not met with open arms as a Scientologist. Some thought it was an implant that was motivating me.
But my love for God was greater than their misunderstanding or lack of.
Thank you
Placebo effect is the key driving force in scientology.
Most people got in in their teens trying to figure out themselves and the world.
The old com course was the first thing they took.
They get some common sense stuff,like if you pay attention to people they will like you better and other pearls of wisdom.
Actually the com course is a better course than the Dale Carnegie course that Warren Buffet and many others claimed saved their lives.
The Scientology course delivers somewhat similar results for 10% of the price.
Only problem with Scientology is the more you pay the less you get.
In the seventies the grades were kinda worth the money you paid especially with the fun and excitement of doing them in a co audit.
Drinking with your buddies at the frat house is also worth it.
Problems start when you start hunting them space cooties.
Thousands of hours for years with interrogations twice a year at say $20.000 per trip just for the interrogations.At the end
Scientology is more of a bait and switch.You go look what I got for my $30.
Wow imagine how cool I will be with $100,000.
But who cares.The cult’s reputation is so awful that no young people will come close to it.Let the well deserved implosion continue.
And let the explosion continue. That was well said
Yes Terra, interesting study. But all psychotherapy is a placebo effect. Psychoanalysis has the same basic than auditing and is a prequel to Dianetics. Or take Method Coué, you just repeat as a mantra “every day on any way I feel better and better”. And it works, I tried it. It worked for me.
The whole idea of Hubbard is that thought prime matter. Well the “non placebo effect” would be that a substance or an action of the material universe may heal. But, it’s also faith as any part of it.
The problem of healing whatever it is, is money !
How much does it bring. And then more of it (auditing, psychoanalysis, pain killer, zoloft, prozac…) is produced, not for the good of the patient but for the good of the company. And they want to shoot competitors.
Miscavige altered the rules of auditing and started to do a HUGE CRIME in Scientology : OVERRUNNING.
Not accepting that the PC is release and giving more of it for stats and money purpose.
Auditing has a natural course. It’s a cycle of action. When the PC feel it’s over, it’s over. His consideration prime. it’s not a treatment with pills. There is no quantity of charge. A being has no time connected to him. He can, to a point, change his mind.
Many dissatisfied people with Hubbard’s tech have been feeling good on the beginning then felt bad.
They went over a release state and overran. This an out tech of magnitude, Hubbard fought it all his life.
It’s pretty unfair to assign to Hubbard and the tech, what is out tech, and practiced under Miscavige.
The recent exemple was the alteration of Not’s, cancelling the “blow by inspection”. Meaning, you just spot the charge and it’s blowing. Huge ability, you can make any charge dissapear in a glance.
Probably Miscvige (who is in fact very materialistic) cannot understand it and think also it is a placebo effect ! He wanted the process to be done, he wanted more solid things. While upper you go, lighter you are !
In fact when you are really free, scientology itself vanish. Hubbard says that at the end scientoloogy itself should be audited out !
Miscavige entering those heavy materialistics viewpoints has destroyed the wins of the preclears.
There’s a longstanding idea that suggestion plus imagination equals hypnosis. I add the crucial ingredient of transference aka altitude or rapport.
The book Trances People Live has probably the best simple description of hypnosis I have seen yet in its first eighty pages. It also has a therapy I don’t recommend.
In Scientology the utter lack of scientific validation of any results despite repeated efforts to test it or demonstrate its results is relevant.
The fact that it has produced euphoric trances and good feelings doesn’t mean it has any true benefits. I am sure cocaine and heroin feel good, but they too lack miracles and profound wisdom.
I understand just about any practice gets some anecdotal evidence it benefits people whether it is prayer or confession or any therapy.
That isn’t proof.
The “it must work some of the time due to so many claims” claim is the bandwagon fallacy married to anecdotal evidence. Belief doesn’t make truth or the earth would be flat as it was long believed and a variety of deities would somehow exist as billions believe in them.
There is an actual reality separate from our beliefs. Our opinions are irrelevant to it. Pluto doesn’t magically change to a planet then to something else because our labels change.
I think if you ultimately approach Scientology as a cult like other cults it becomes clear that the cults that promise magic powers or immortality through chanting or mass suicide or prayer to a cult leader all have no transcendent technology. It simply doesn’t exist.
Everything Scientology creates as experiences and memories can be accounted for with explanations for the results other cults also create with no beneficial technology credited to any cults.
If you read Lifton, Singer, Atack, Shaw, Hassan, Ross, Lalich, Cialdini, Hoffer, Milgram, Aaronson, and get a good grounding in conversational hypnosis and social psychology the methods Hubbard used all fit the models of influence going back to elements from hypnosis, classic rhetoric, cognitive dissonance theory, the persuasion Cialdini’s book Influence described and the traumatic narcissism Shaw described as well as the standard ideas Singer and Lifton wrote the books on.
Lots of cults use persuasion and Scientology is no exception. Hubbard tried hundreds of hypnotic techniques in his hodge podge of methods but ultimately there are no miracles here.
I have seen far more than enough from Hubbard himself to realize he never found the miracles he promised.
Here’s a quote from Hubbard himself and some references on the methods he used in Scientology. From a Philadelphia Doctorate Course Tape lecture tape
RON THE HYPNOTIST
Structure/Function: 11 December 1952 page 1
„All processes are based upon the original observation
that an individual could have implanted in him by hypnosis
and removed at will any obsession or aberration,
compulsion, desire, inhibition which you could think of – by hypnosis.“
Hypnosis, then, was the wild variable;
sometimes it worked,
sometimes it didn’t work.
It worked on some people; it didn’t work on other people.
Any time you have a variable that is as wild as this, study it.
Well, I had a high certainty already –
I had survival. Got that in 1938 or before that. And uh…Ron Hubbard
From
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2016/08/scientology-study-technology-1-hubbards_19.html
For further reading I will list several references and the areas they elaborate on.
Regarding mind control in Scientology:
Insidious Enslavement: Study Technology
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/01/i…ology.html?m=0
Basic Introduction To Hypnosis In Scientology
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/01/b…is-in.html?m=0
Pissed It’s Not Your Fault !!!
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/01/p…fault.html?m=0
The Critical Factor
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/201…
The Secret Of Scientology Part 1 Control Via Contradiction
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/01/t…art-1.html?m=0
Burning Down Hell – How Commands Are Hidden, Varied And Repeated To Control You As Hypnotic Implants
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/02/m…-hell.html?m=0
Humbling Simplicity
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/201…
The Empty Well
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/201…
Why Hubbard Never Claimed OT Feats And The Rock Bottom Basis Of Scientology
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/02/m…never.html?m=0
Regarding Hubbard’s uses of loaded language with reversals of truth
Propaganda By Reversal Of Meaning In Scientology
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/03/p…ng-in.html?m=0
Regarding the narcissism and sociopathic tendencies in Ron Hubbard and his cult
Scientology’s Parallel In Nature – Malignant Narcissism
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/05/s…ure_3.html?m=0
Regarding Dissociation
Exteriorization Versus Dissociation
http://mbnest.blogspot.com/201…
Scientology’s hook is the belief in “mental mass” which is a measurement of a person’s spiritual condition. Scientologists know the initial euphoric effects of processing don’t last but they like to believe the euphoria is a symptom of having gotten rid of mental mass and they are, for the most part, rid of it forever. It has been attached to them for many lifetimes and now it’s gone. That is the belief.
If you really believe you’re recollecting past life events and you believe recollecting them has liberating effects such as eliminating mental mass, you’re going to feel satisfied, thrilled even, about doing so in session.
The session itself is run by a person who is trained to perform the auditing methodology which is complicated and must be done exactly as prescribed without variance. Thus it has an aura of precision and technological intricacy. This facilitates believing in it.
Even though you may feel less than wonderful a few days, months, years after the auditing, you can tell yourself you’ve gotten rid of so much ‘mass’! That notion is comforting and self-affirming. Scientologists call it “stable gain”.
What we believe to be true defines our experience. If I believe a million dollars has been deposited into my checking account my mood will be elevated even if that money isn’t there. A placebo is just a belief and isn’t a belief something we adopt when the truth is either unavailable or undesirable?
Its seems that Scientology is breaking so many laws on a consistent basis that a task force of local,state and federal agent should be able to shut them down… I hope there is a plan in the works.
Excellent post. There’s a great video by Derren Brown, called “Derren Brown Fear and Faith Placebo” that’s well worth watching and proves out everything in this article. https://youtu.be/y2XHDLuBZSw
I wanted auditing to work and it did, at least for the grades anyway. Sitting and talking to someone who’d listen, about my issues with communicating and about my problems and things I was upset about and the numerous stupid decisions I’d made in the past, was definitely therapeutic. How could it not be? But, I was well-versed (remember, training is half the bridge, right?) in the processes and what the goal of each question would be. What’s interesting is that hardly anything read until I said I was interested in running it, which tells you right there that it was me looking at a question and deciding that yes, I do have issues with that and I want to talk about them. So I talked about them until I had it resolved for myself and to my own satisfaction and therefore, a floating needle. I can do the same thing with solo auditing now. Simple. There are other, much cheaper ways to do this besides Scn. and maybe they don’t use a meter, but they do use other indicators from the client/patient to decide that the “process” is completed.
T-Marie- All you need to do is hang out with a bunch of Italian women, communicate your problems and every concern and issue you have over a cup of coffee. I did not need Scientology, or therapy- I have a great group of friends that are there for me 24/7 as I am for them. Whenever you want, we are here for you too. You have no idea what we can get resolved with a cup of coffee and lots of unconditional love and laughter. My very best to you! Ciao, Bella.
Thank you, Teresa 🙂
Mr Rinder
Thank you for your blog and bringing all of this to light. I’ve tried for many years to figure out the why’s of scientology with no success and I see why now.
I have a question that I was hoping you could answer.
How does one manage on the outside after being locked up all those years?
It’s really not so hard. Sea Org members generally have a good work ethic which stands them in good stead. They also appreciate a lot of things that most take for granted.
Cathy: Keep reading Mike’s blog, too. Hopefully, the false data will peel off and you’ll make sense out of what happened.
Terra Cognita.
Thank you and I can’t help but read all the information that is now becoming available.
Keep it coming
I almost printed out the dictionary from a previous post as I’m noticing many are x members.
An an X JW I understand staying and leaving
Dear Leah and Mike:
Watching Season 1 Episode V, here at Mexico:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS9zQYVXXY8
That is great!
Great
While I watch Leah Remini and Mike Rinder with great anticipation each week, and deeply appreciate the education – I find that often on the show… and even more often (in fact frequently) on this blog, the vocabulary is directed at people who have been IN Scientology and understand the colloquialisms. It would be quite helpful to those of us “outside”, and I believe would be beneficial to those trying to convey the message, to either include explanations of terms or speak in words more recognizable to us laypeople!
There are several glossaries available on the web both from the COS itself as from criitcs.
Those from the COS itself don’t include info about the higher levels, the so-called OT-levels.
E.g. http://www.xenu.net/archive/dictionary/
Wikipedia gives an explanation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_terminology which is well worth reading.
I almost want to study the definitions just to understand but I don’t think I’ll ever understand.
Kathy Bernhardt McLain- Thank goodness you brought this up! I was thinking the same thing. The vocabulary might as well been Greek to me. Thank you TrevAnon- I will look up CoS glossary, print it out and have it by my side when I watch Leah and Mike, as well as when I am reading all the posts. Have a Happy New Year.
“Maybe this is why I didn’t have the big wins in session that others did. I wasn’t able to unconditionally accept that these past life images in my mind were real and not imaginary. I’m probably the sort of person for which placebos don’t work”
It did seem to me that some people needed a lot less convincing that it was working than I did, after each level I remained secretly dissapointed that the promised result had not been achieved. You find something positive to think about so that you can get an f/n at the end of it, but isnt this part of the play? Making the whole process of failing the exam so tedious and inconvenient that you try to avoid it at all costs. Were others really getting so much more out of it than me or was it that my expectations were higher? I did speak to one person who admitted that they had not gotten much out of the lower bridge actions but were hoping for big things to happen on the ot levels.
Gimpy: Yes!
“’m not saying Scientology tech works or that it’s one big sugar pill. I’m just suggesting that the placebo effect is real and that people may benefit either way.”
$cn has never been interested in subjecting its claims to any kind of rigorous empirical evaluation since the 50’s when Elron’s attempts to publicly demonstrate the awesome powers of Clears failed hilariously, and when the few independent research studies done on Dn failed to support Elron’s hyped claims. He was never again to make that same “mistake” with $cn. So, sorting out whatever additional benefit $cn processes themselves could provide beyond the placebo rate has never been done.
The overall efficacy of placebo treatment is between 25%-30%, so in a sub-culture like $cn where all gains are attributed to the efficacy of the tech, but all of the poor results are heaped upon the individual, the group mind set provides an explanatory basis for others to understand how The Tech could be 100% effective, and the Word of Elron 100% infallible, even when folks can clearly observe it did not work for others as it has for them.
As time passes, the ones who don’t get the placebo effect quickly self-select out and what you end up with is a tighter, more cohesive group who all believe in the tech’s efficacy which, in turn, increases the effect of the group on the individual’s perception of having achieved the desired result. Take that road all the way to its end and what do you end up with? You get OaTy committees comprised of individuals who’ve all spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to achieve gains and abilities that everyone of them has attested to, but no one can demonstrate…the perfect group to go out and influence others to do the same!
“$cn, making the gullible more gullible and the suggestible more easily hypnotizable since 1950!”
Is it any different for psychology and psychiatry? I’ve known people who devoutly wished, desired, hoped and prayed that certain conditions or ideas would be corrected, yet spent many years (and dollars) in such endeavours without result.
Having studied and practiced hypnosis for several years in my late teens, I got very mixed results. A very few people appeared impossible to hypnotize, though they desperately wanted results on their particular problem. And my own experience with scio was quite mixed with certain subjects seemingly beyond getting handled. Yet I also had almost explosive new awareness, both in and OUT of session, which were not the actual subject of the particular session, not even considered prior to the session.
The human mind, studied for many centuries, continues to baffle science and hardly lends itself to easy answers. Theories, well regarded, fall to other theories. Intense arguments and discussions continue. Using “hypnosis” as the be all and end all of scio’s “success”, won’t cut it, in my opinion. It’s just too easy. My own experiences, continuing even into my 80s, lend a whole different view. I recently ran an “earlier similar” on myself going back to age 3 which resolved a major problem which has plagued me ever since. Gone totally! Very exhilirating.
So “disposing’ of scio by blaming it all on hypnotism, as more than a few are willing to do, is a very easy out.
thegman77, your comments are valuable. Thank you.
HF: “As time passes, the ones who don’t get the placebo effect quickly self-select out and what you end up with is a tighter, more cohesive…
Yes, you’re so right. The so-so believers and non-believers get weeded out until what the church is left with is the few at top completely filled with Kool-Aid.
There is always going to be a discussion/debate on how much a person’s expectation/decision affects what happens in the physical realm. I expect the sugar pill to handle my headache and so it does. I have decided that God is with me when I pray for some outcome and then it indeed occurs. And yet at times … one expects the chemo to work and one dies anyway … or one prays fervently for a positive result even with others helping out with their prayers … and then there is failure. Obviously this phenomenon varies from individual to individual and circumstance to circumstance.
But the tenor of this article is that there is something kind of bogus about the phenomenon. Isn’t the ability of a being to affect outcomes by decision/postulate one of the things LRH discusses quite at length in books like 8-8008 and numerous other books and lectures? Isn’t it a big POSITIVE to strengthen one’s ability to “self placebo”? (to coin a new term)
Yes, a big part of what makes auditing work is that the preclear is a very active participant. It is not being done TO him. Yes again, the pc knows what the expectations are for his role. He knows that the end result on any given process is a cognition/new realization about life and so is looking for that or expecting it. What’s wrong with that? In my opinion, that’s a BIG positive in the procedure. It’s a CO-action. The very ACTIVE participation actually EMPOWERS the pc who is now not totally EFFECT, but also quite cause in the process, really as much as the auditor. Why is that ANY type of negative at all??? If a person wants to “improve” spiritually and/or become more enlightened or aware, he or she is MUCH better off and more powerful by becoming proactive in that process. (or is a person better off by just kneeling and letting a priest say a prayer for them or a witch doctor wave some twigs or a dead bird in the air over their head?)
I certainly don’t agree anymore with everything LRH wrote or said. At the same time, I did indeed have some life changing wins from auditing and training. And as a CS and auditor you better believe that I made damn sure that the pc knew EXACTLY what was supposed to happen in auditing and what the very ACTIVE role of the pc was in the procedure. AND what was expected as the end phenomena of a process was (the general EP of course, not a specific one on a specific process)
I like that Terra is bringing these subjects up for discussion. And yet I can’t help but notice that the tenor of all of them is to sort of de-legitimize EVERY aspect of Scientology as essentially worthless (yeah, some comments posted have the proviso of ,,,”I realize that some people say they have had great wins but ….” … “I’m not saying that EVERY part of Scientology is completely bogus but ……”).
I watched Jason Beghe’s two hour rant the other night. I hadn’t seen it in a number of years and was only gonna watch about ten minutes of it but then couldn’t stop. He very effectively and entertainingly covers most of the negative aspects of the Scientology experience. But what struck me powerfully once again is his recounting of his first big win on TRO. He explains that he had spent his whole life searching for an answer to the question of who he is. And then he found out on TR0 and was totally blown away by the win. He became a Cl V auditor and so I presume must have continued to have some successes auditing others to graduate, but largely he felt it was all downhill in his next 11 or so years in Scientology and concluded that Scientology was a VERY negative experience overall and largely a con. Not sure how he feels about the experience now as the video was made seven or eight years ago. But here’s my essential question about his experience:
Wasn’t finding out who you were (after searching your whole life for the answer) worth eleven years and all that money? An answer to the one question you had been searching for all your life???? (I don’t think the answer to that question was a “placebo”)
Like and agree with your comment JP. Thanks.
Hi Joe, your comments always fascinate me and I believe like you I haven’t thrown out the baby with the bath water. I’m not willing to invalidate my wins in auditing and auditor training. Anyway, a great comment about Jason, hope he reads this and ponders and/or answers your question.
Joe, I would guess the Jason Beghe’s answer to your question would be, no. If it were worth it, he’d still be there. If my experiences in the church were worth more than my unwillingness to participate in a cult, I’d still be there too.
I had great wins (see my earlier comment) and I helped some people have great wins, which was and is my purpose in life…but still not worth enough to stay or continue beyond the point that I found what LRH had to say to be believable. So, I took what I wanted and left the rest. I can do the same with other philosophers and studies too, for much less of a price.
T-Marie, you’re probably right about Jason’s answer, but I didn’t mean worth STAYING. I had great life changing wins but like you, I left and I certainly would NEVER go back.
In the early 80s, after what I considered to be a very successful experience with scio, I had the major cog that I was complete on that experience and simply stopped very quietly. I would *never* go back, specifically because it was obvious then that scio had moved on to a disastrous direction. I knew virtually nothing of Miscavige at the time, but saw what was happening, especially to the vicious disruption of the mission system, one of the most successful actions in all of scio history. Good people doing good work, crushed. That, to me, was where scio began its huge slide despite apparent gains. The “real” people had left…or were booted out.
Excellent comment, Joe.
As regards Jason Beghe, sometime after he was interviewed on that video, he spent time with Marty Rathbun. Some time after that, in the Introduction to his book “What Is Wrong with Scientology” Marty quotes Jason as saying “problems created by Scientology need to be resolved with Scientology.”
Joe: I hear you about auditing being a two way street. That for any therapy to work, the person seeking help has to be an active participant.
I also get what you said about the tenor of my essays. I’m sorry if I implied that there isn’t anything in Scientology that works or that people haven’t had wins. Obviously, people have and there are many nuggets of truth.
My intention is to make people look closely at Ron’s tech. Really examine it. Maybe see it from another viewpoint. Decide what is true and what isn’t. What works and what is “worthless.”
One of things I like about the replies to these posts is people like you pointing out all the stuff I didn’t think of; all my inconsistencies; all my biases; all the things I wrote which didn’t make complete sense.
In the end, I love being able to finally discuss these topics.
Thanks for your input, Joe.
Terra Cognita: “One of things I like about the replies to these posts is people like you pointing out all the stuff I didn’t think of; all my inconsistencies; all my biases; all the things I wrote which didn’t make complete sense. In the end, I love being able to finally discuss these topics.”
+1 on your last sentence. And as for the rest of the quote, I really commend you for your integrity.
Dig it, Terra. Thanks.
“The very ACTIVE participation actually EMPOWERS the pc who is now not totally EFFECT, but also quite cause in the process, really as much as the auditor. Why is that ANY type of negative at all??? If a person wants to “improve” spiritually and/or become more enlightened or aware, he or she is MUCH better off and more powerful by becoming proactive in that process. (or is a person better off by just kneeling and letting a priest say a prayer for them or a witch doctor wave some twigs or a dead bird in the air over their head?)
I certainly don’t agree anymore with everything LRH wrote or said. At the same time, I did indeed have some life changing wins from auditing and training. And as a CS and auditor you better believe that I made damn sure that the pc knew EXACTLY what was supposed to happen in auditing and what the very ACTIVE role of the pc was in the procedure. AND what was expected as the end phenomena of a process was (the general EP of course, not a specific one on a specific process)”
Influence over the person is the problem. Instilling expectations is going to lead the person to perhaps manufacture the desired outcome. This aspect would not be valid in a scientific study of processing. You use a straw-man when you talk about waving dead birds. One can be proactive in the process without being indoctrinated as to its desired outcome. Your insistence on making sure the person understood what was expected and the end result desired introduces significant bias and influence. I don’t think such is required. The results could be achieved without such influencing. If not then there’s not much value. I trained to class V and audited in the HGC of my org so I’m not ‘untrained’. I recall running “Recall a time that is really real to you” on a person I worked with that had no knowledge of anything and within 2 minutes she was recounting a past life experience with significant emotion, much to the surprise of us both.
There is an assumption of honesty on the part of all concerned – if you didn’t get what you expected but say nothing, that’s certainly not honest. Perhaps that expectation could never be fulfilled for various reasons. But the dishonesty mitigates claims of failure. I can certainly appreciate a person’s not wanting to get involved in a “qual” action costing even more cash.
I had good auditing on the grades and was not unhappy with it. I’ve had experiences I can’t explain as a result of some sessions on the L’s. They certainly were not due to my expectations. The problem with scientology is that it doesn’t do what it says it can. The “total freedom” game they offer is a trap.
Dear Mike,
Thank you for your superb work!
I am now watching Episode IV here at Mexico:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF-t_iDfSl0
Best regards
Almost all of my major wins that I associate with being connected to scientology happened outside of course or session and didn’t follow any set patter or pattern (as one would find on course or in session):
1. Going exterior as I flew down a flight of stairs in what would eventually become the American St. Hill Org. As I ran, I could “see” my destination: Lebanon Hall and Sea Org muster after dinner. I ran faster and faster until I ran smack dab into my vision (and arrived on time just as I had decided to do).
2. The paranormal activity which resulted in a biography of late actor Jeff Chandler.
3. During an assessment with Field Auditor Trey Lotz, I realized that I must have gone “Clear.” It doesn’t make a whole heck of a lot of sense and I’ve never had it sorted out in session, but I can tell you one thing: the migraines that had plagued me for years blew, and I haven’t had a single headache since April 1978.
It reminds me of something ex-scientologist Chris Shelton said at the Center for Inquiry Los Angeles (and I’m paraphrasing here): “It’s not necessarily scientology that gives a person their wins but what that person brings to the table.”
Thanks for a great blog posting.
Fred G/ Haseney
Ex-scientologist (1977-2014)
Fred, if you will permit a comment on Chris Shelton’s quote. (I am a “declared SP” myself and ended my participation in the CoS in 2006) While I am an admirer of Chris’, I would like to (gently I think) point out that I think he may be missing some part of understanding fully the practical application of Scientology theory if he is not a trained and experienced auditor.
The reason I am saying this here is because of your quoting Chris above. As in my other comment on today’s post, I will point out that the flow of Chris’ comment is that it is somewhat of a negative or a “ding” against Scientology that a large part of the wins one has in Scientology is what a person brings to the table. But if one becomes what I might say is an “expert” in Scientology theory and procedure, one knows that yes, a LARGE part of a person’s wins is INDEED what they bring to the table. That’s one of the points that LRH goes over and over, that native ability to look and realize and thus change one’s viewpoint/postulates on any area of life. The fact that the preclear may be on the lookout for a cognition is a PLUS (and then “FINDS” one). This is an ability hundreds of millions of people around the globe would hope to develop in their lives and seek out in all sorts of religions and activities.
I still have cognitions in life (both from just looking at life around me and as a result of my studies in various disciplines) And you know what? I dig it.
*and certainly one can be a very experienced and successful auditor and still be highly critical of much of the Scientology experience and of any of LRH’s ideas as well. (witness Karen DLC who is a Cl. X11 or my very good friend Kathy Thomas who was an extremely successful Cl. 8 or Sheldon Goldberg and many other successful auditors who post here)
Joe Pendleton: “That’s one of the points that LRH goes over and over, that native ability to look and realize and thus change one’s viewpoint/postulates on any area of life…This is an ability hundreds of millions of people around the globe would hope to develop in their lives and seek out in all sorts of religions and activities.”
Well said, Joe. To me, this is a description of self-determinism. Originally, that was the whole point of scientology as a philosophy to be applied. And, IMO, if a person managed to get that, they wouldn’t need anything else – they’ve graduated.
They may not (and probably won’t) have a single OT (psychic) power. And they won’t necessarily be very knowledgeable – although if they did happen to hang around the church after their self-determinism was already accomplished, they might have gained a lot of knowledge from all the wrongdoings going on in the organization! (This would hopefully include their own part in it.)
I believe that wherever on the Bridge a person may have arrived, there will always be more personal growth to be had. But s/he will have the ability to find and use whatever is needed, if their self-determinism is intact.
Well said Joe Pendleton and Marildi!
Many years ago, I was doing some level (Grade IV?) when I exteriorized in session. At the time my TA was running low, around 1.9 to 2.0. The next day when I tried to start session, my TA was 5.1. I did the Int Rundown, and my TA went back to normal, and stayed that way. Years later, I had to do Ex-Dn because of SEVEN rock slams (I am a sick Wookiee, what can I tell you). I did it, and the rock slams went away, and never came back. And the weird feeling I had while R/Sing went away too. I was LOTS better, and stayed that way. I remain grateful. The Tech worked. Or it did when Ethics and Admin stayed the phuc away and didn’t interfere with WDAH.
LRH lied pretty much anytime his lips were moving. All his lectures about “The Thetan can do this and that and so and so” are all crap, literally. He was pulling it out of his ass he went along. He never could do ANY of the things he said Thetans could. If he couldn’t do them, how would he know what a Thetan could, or could not, do? A few people like Mike Silverman could. But even they didn’t do those things in the ways that LRH said they would. Same for David Blaine and Stephen Frayne, who call themselves “magicians”. They are actual OTs naturally, without Clearing.
So do I believe there is a spirit, or thetan? Yes, and here’s why: Dr. Duncan MacDougall in 1901 weighed people as they were dying. Just after death, they lost a few ounces as the spirit left. I do not believe the spirit weighs anything, but its MEMORIES are part of the physical universe, and therefore weigh something. Religious figures and scientists both condemned him, but he stuck by his findings, and told them ALL to jump into a cold lake. (I would have pushed them. but hey, that’s me).
LRH was not lying when he said this: PC plus Auditor is greater than Bank. If only he had followed the program set out for him by Otto Roos and “The Council of Class 12s”, things would have turned out very differently.
AAAROOOUGH!
Joe P. FAIL for practicing the No True Scotsman fallacy.
All I can do is to endeavor to be more worthy in the future. And yet of course I cannot promise success in that regard, just that I will do my best … or my worst.
This is one of the most astounding series of posts I’ve yet seen on any of the blogs. I’ve stated on Tony’s blog quite a few times that the heavy and nasty posts about Hubbard and ALL of the tech was simply throwing the baby out with the bath water. Thank you all for this most fascinating posts here, especially those who have realized and KEPT their positive experiences intact. I’ve done the same and have absolutely no regrets for my years in and the results I got. If I’d gotten nothing other than my beloved mate, it all would have been worthwhile. Add to that, all my own new awareness (continuing) and the plethora of people I met during and after my stint “inside” – to include our very marvelous host on this blog and the many who post… Well, it was all worth it and continues to grow.
Love this topic and your observations. In this vein, Hubbard was always looking for auditing procedures and commands that were most likely to get a reaction from people. It didn’t matter what was actually happening, but whether the person felt something or not. If you are in session and you experience anything (dopiness, sadness, anger, agitation, euphoria, whatever), you think what you are doing must be working. The worst thing that can happen in a session is nothing.
It reminds me of a critical write-up of Transcendental Meditation. When someone is sitting on their butt for hours on end meditating, they experience some serious pain at times, but they’ve been taught that this is their version of the reactive mind clearing up. So when it becomes apparent someone is in major discomfort emotionally or physically, someone will say in a really cheerful way: “Something good is happening.” to keep that suggestion firmly in place, which I assume makes it more likely that the person will feel great about the whole thing once it passes.
Great Article. And the one sure fire way to KNOW that scamology doesn’t really do anything worth time, effort or money is to take people who have done the “Bridge” and compare them to those otherwise in their demographic who have not. On average you will find that the scamologist is not in any way better than the non-scamologist.
Since that IS the case, what IS the point of doing scamology? No scamologist has EVER been able to logically answer that question. for all too obvious reasons.
Don’t agree, Mike. I don’t claim to be better than anyone else. I DO claim, however, that I became better than I was. That’s “logically” enough for me. If you didn’t get anything from it, too bad. I did.
Nope thegman77, that doesn’t qualify for what I pointed out. Reread EXACTLY what I said . It has NOTHING to do with personal FEELINGS. ZERO, Zip, Zilch, nada.
Which is probably why scamology never got that big and hardly any people stayed in it as compared to how many signed up. That applied to even in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s.
I recently had a discussion that developed in an argument at a social ‘holiday season’ gathering. This guy was praising the virtues of manual work such as basic carpentry. He was really happy with working with his hands which he had just taken up as a hobby. He was an older fellow but quickly added he had been an academic all his life. Turns out he was a lawyer. He had an opinion on everything and after a fair while of calmly watching him hearing himself talk and criticizing everything and everyone he has ever “studied” I butted in and asked him was there anything more positive an ‘academic” does other that criticize and bear judgement upon others. Especially those who at least were willing to have a go?
Well… didn’t he take offense at that and I was flooded with all sorts explanations of how intelligent he is, universities he went to, diplomas he had an all! I shook my head, made the excuse of needing another beer (always) and went someplace else.
The only reason I’m mentioning this on the above article is with the human condition it appears we all have a tendency to self heal upon coming to realize we have someone else to blame for our woes, albeit short lived for the most part, life still steps in and makes you older at a minimum of its effects.
Scientology preys exclusively upon the willingness of trying to attain something better than you already have and it became more and more criminal as time went on, especially when the money really flowed. Until finally those still believing in its organisational pursuits only have their delusions and lots of enemies out there in life to show for it. I’ve taken certain things out of Scientology, just as I have out of having the experience of being a soldier and seen the work-ability of them. I have even juggled around with finance, knowing I despised the credit rip off but hey, it serves a purpose.
If anything Hubbard sure showed us how gullible we can be, and maybe we can learn something positive from that, rather than continual focus on the negative and making it a passion. For many it’s early days coming to realize you’ve been had by a scam masquerading as a religion but I feel the wheels of justice are finally turning in that regard. The wheels of justice are also a point in question as well, that profession also deals almost exclusively in delusions. But a natural justice is finding a way, a couple of years ago who would have thought the ex-spokesperson of the Cof$ and head of OSA plus a Hollywood actress would team up to bring down a billion dollar cult? And all well away from the legal system.
Don’t be too hard on yourself for having a mind that can be manipulated, for the most part it’s a group survival thing gone wacko. Taking a microscope to it is fraught with the same perils as trying to live with it. Self-determinism while fragile at the best of times as it is manipulated and bartered around like a commodity by the unscrupulous is still worth pursuing imo.
TC,
As a physical science professional this life time I enjoyed and concur with your article. I do have a small thought on your comment: ” 2) whether the mind is a physical manifestation of chemical and electrical processes happening inside of our heads, or is of a spiritual nature located in another dimension, makes no difference; ”
In the 1980s, I came up with the thought that the brain was much like the hard drive in my computer; and the mind was like a software package of programs installed on that hard drive. Each program represented a valence, or entity, to operate in life. The hardwired programs, such as heart beat, breathing, metabolism, etc., were like the BIOs program that started up when the computer turned on.
Three years ago an out of body experience occurred when the blood sugar levels dropped to the point that the brain could not string thoughts together (mountain trail overexertion). “I” stepped outside and saw objects around me: mountains, trees, rocks, and birds; but they had no labels (names) until “I” moved back into the body/head and reengaged with the mind of the body. This satisfied me that the above analogy was valid.
IMO this is why my immediate past life experiences are so spotty, “I” did not carry over the software from the previous brain, just some highlights.
This is basically the model Hubbard used with Dianetics.
Interesting comment, Jim. Besides correlating with Scientology, I would say your experience also correlates with at least some aspects of nonduality teachings. Per my understanding of those teachings, the mind/ego or ego-mind (in Scientology it would be called one’s own valence or beingness) is basically an entity that is fabricated through lifelong cultural and other indoctrination and has no fundamental reality. The only thing that is fundamentally real is spirit/consciousness/theta (whichever term you want to use). I think your experience would be described by nondualists as an Awakening.
Of note is the often repeated technique, during a dissemination conversation, of “bringing the person up the awareness characteristics to Need of Change.
That’s priming someone to be in a frame of mind to be maximally accepting of a placebo effect.
Thank you Terra for some very interesting observations.I cannot say with certainty what it was that changed my entire perception of auditing so that toward the end of my time with the Sea Org,I was petrified of the security checks and I no longer felt safe being audited.Others far more gifted than I have written much about the mind and illness and medicines etc.What is left for me regarding Scientology is that I honestly thought Ron at the beginning had figured out a totally new path.He had not.What he had figured out was how vulnerable human beings can be when promised ultimate power over anything they believe is right for them.He then used all his flock for his own Game.The still ins whales celebs searchers all who continue to keep Scientology working have long ago fallen into the trap Ron created and Miscavige finished in his own cruel style.To all of us that got out I send love and hope for a bright New Year full of peace and wisdom.?
Humans have many ‘hard wired’ behaviors. The placebo effect is just one of them. Why did ancient humans go to the shaman for medical treatment? It might have been the fancy antlers the shaman wore, or the red ocher he/she wore. Accepting the present ‘authority’ seems to be hard wired.
That is all it is, genetics and what you learned at your mammy’s knee. Why are people afraid of spiders and snakes? That seems to be hard wired too. A lot of human behavior seems to be hard wired.
Auditing requires a some what more subtle approach. Throw in some light hypnosis and ‘suggest’ that a ‘floating needle’ causes happiness and you’ll soon have almost anyone hooked on the experience.
Terra has nailed the group reinforcement part of the scam. ‘Be one of us’. That is main message of $cientology. That and ‘did you bring a full wallet’? “We can help you with that”.
“Throw in some light hypnosis and ‘suggest’ that a ‘floating needle’ causes happiness and you’ll soon have almost anyone hooked on the experience.” YES, I would say this is exactly what happened to me
Peer pressure is a large part of Scientology’s success. UCLA,and other universities have been doing peer pressure experiments,for years.People fold very easily because they don’t want to be the one,voice of dissent,and be alienated from the group.This is in our DNA.We need others to survive,and “auditors” use that to maximum advantage.
The pressures of false attribution abound throughout high-control organizations. If anything works, it’s Scientology. If it doesn’t, it’s you messing things up. Even if there is no causal link or inherent barrier. That’s the only response allowed.
This is exactly why Scientology will never allow double-blind, peer-reviewed testing of its “science” – and science is the only arena in which placebos have a legitimate use. There is nothing, absolutely nothing that is science-based about Scientology except the first five letters of its deceptive name.
All the fancy neurophysiology aside, both religions and psychiatry agree that there is something cathartic by taking one’s sins, problems, anxieties, transgressions, etc. from living inside the mind/body and putting them out into the world to transcend. Confession relieves burdens that can fester inside like wounds, so of course it can have healing properties. It feels better to get a secret of one’s chest.
However, giving them tangibility is one thing and having that contribute to “healing” is quite another. I think a big problem comes in when you transfer the power of ownership to another who can abuse it. The Catholic church encourages confession and promises both confidentiality and voluntary expression of sins. Even though it maintains the authority to mete out mild “punishment”, it still allows for a certain freedom to comply. And still this confessor/authority relationship can be fraught with problems in the wrong hands, we’ve all seen examples of its abuse.
Same with therapist/patient relationships (although the efficacy of talk-therapy is being questioned as a complete way to solve problems). Ferreting out details in the past that may have unconsciously led to behavior, phobias, habits can also be helpful if managed by someone professionally trained and skilled. It can also be both useless and a disaster in the hands of a bad practitioner, depending on their character and philosophy.
The scary thing about CoS to me is that it takes the confessor relationships of both religion and psychiatry and militarizes them. People are required to repeatedly confess and threatened if they don’t. Unlike religion, they is recorded so that it can be used as extortion, and there is no expectation of confidentiality. Like some religion, the authority figure can assign punishment. People are encouraged to spy on, accuse and rat out their fellow practitioners like the Salem witch trials, or citizens in the McCarthy era, or even family members like children in China were during the Cultural Revolution. Making private sins public is always an invitation for abuse of power.
Psychiatry also records sessions, and, like CoS has a more scientific approach (although using a crude lie detector is a bit old-fashioned given the technical advancements in neuro-medicine these days), and therefore appeals to people as a more pragmatic approach to both health and spirituality. But psychiatry has strict rules for both confidentiality and codes of conduct for its practitioners that are designed to protect the patient (not that individuals cannot violate them). Some patients are vulnerable, like in other fields of medicine, to pharmaceuticals being an easy fix, or an irresponsible substitute for method. And while psychiatrists have some limited ability to hospitalize people they feel are ill enough to be a danger to themselves or others, there is no real judgement or punishment conferred.
CoS takes the best ideals of both fields and combines them with the worst abuses of both religion and psychiatry. It has created an organization that can inflict both spiritual, mental and physical abuse on its adherents and use the product of its sessions to blackmail and extort from its practitioners in ways that are not just accidental but purposeful and designed tomaterially benefit the organizations. It’s like if the Mafia took over both religion and psychiatry – only it’s all under the leadership of a fascist dictator. The trauma and betrayal people must feel after experiencing that is just staggering to me. Hopefully the residual effects will not cause them to mistrust every institution they run across, but to simply be skeptical of unrealistic promises and to question both claimed results and abuses of authority.
Cecybeans, excellent analysis. I totally agree.
Cecybeans- Bravo- you nailed it.
This might be a dumb question…..did LRH realize that auditing was almost a facsimile of what goes on in a psychologists or a psychiatrists office?
And, Yes….this is a never-in-with-a-psych-degree question. It’s something I have always wondered.
I believe so. Remember, this is the “Modern Science of Mental Health” and he believed he would literally take over the fields of psychology and psychiatry.
Mike, do you mean destroy them? I always got the feeling that the ultimate goal of LRH was to eradicate them since he was all powerful.
Well, this is only my speculation, but No I dont think so. I think he wanted to take over and get their revenue stream and be legitimized by them. Only when he was rejected did he then start to rail against psychiatry, which he did til the very end of his life. The psychs ultimately came to be blamed for EVERY ill on this planet and the universe.
Lol. Thanks Mike. Auditing is a form of psychotherapy…in a sense. I know that the hatred of the “psyches” was only born after they scoffed at his ideas. LRH was looking for their acceptance and approval of his ideas…and can you imagine if the opposite had happened????
Anyway….I want to tell you how riveting Aftermath is. The Headley’s story is heartbreaking….all of it is heartbreaking. I can’t look away.
Keep Going….you and Leah are making a difference….probably more than you realize.
I wish you and your family the best for the upcoming year….you deserve it!!!
Yours…..OverTheBridgeTPA
Good point! Another contradiction within the hallways of Scientology is the parallels it draws with its application of therapy as compared to other mental therapies. Hubbard maintained, “you find out what is wrong with the PC (client) from the PC. Whereas psychiatry tells you what’s wrong with you. That is the technical definition quoted in their dictionary as to the difference between Scientology and psychiatry. It doesn’t take much observation to see how that role is reversed and adopted exclusively by the Cof$. They are the most dogmatic, dictatorial and fascist dictatorship ever to hang out a shingle as a religion. They monitor each and everyone of its members with the most incredible measures of surveillance and are very punitive if anyone falls out of line. Just look at how it monitors ex-members – imagine what it’s like being in it?
The Cof$ are the most fastidious “thought police,” ever to employ the use of electronic surveillance. The emeter is to them, unknowingly by its members, the most (cost) effective prison cell ever devised.
Talk about placebo? geezers, they think they are so close to freedom but have no idea how far they are from it!
Hubbard was really good at stealing ideas, and then putting clever twists in them. Then, he would brag about the genius in these small differences . I think he knew that the real effectiveness came from the job he did selling it all.
Wish I could get the “placebo effect” to work on my migraines…
Mike – With the truth exposed now about Scientology – is it the time for us to file multiple lawsuits against the Church of Scientology and David Miscavige, personally, for fraud and deception, abuse and negligence?
If we file thousands of lawsuits all at the same time (like Scientology did to the IRS) – we could pressure them into stopping disconnection, paying taxes and calling their organization what it is: “A For Profit Self Improvement Organization”.
There is no statute of limitations on Fraud and Scientology.
Beyond a shadow of a doubt – there are more people that have done Scientology and are OUT and pissed about being scammed into signing contracts when they had no legal representation and Scientology purposefully withheld information from them – where no one would be involved in Scientology – had they known ALL.
I believe we have enough witnesses now to prove Scientology uses deceit and commits fraud to get us to buy into Scientology.
Is 2017 the year we take this mother down?
What do ya say SP’s?
I am in.
Definitely, a class action suit against the IAS, we should ALL get our money back for this fraud!
A Congressional Investigation would end the Co$, as would DM getting arrested for what he is doing to Shelly.
WOOOAAAH!
I’d like to see the Cult get nailed for a hate crime. They hate anyone who leaves and especially exposes them. Members are indoctrinated to discriminate.
Thousands of lawsuits. Better than class action. They could not be ignored. Everybody would get a summary judgement if the suits were ignored.
All we need is someone to organize the movement, and suggest how to proceed, to make it easy.
Perhaps a lawyer, who could file an individual suit for each person for a small amount of money up front, knowing he/she would get hundreds or thousands of them, and a chunk of the change.
Its funny how much people take the medical profession for granted. And I mean in the context of assuming something will work because a doctor tells you it will. You assume that your doctor is smart, capable, competent. He or she usually is. But its a faith process. You dont know that your doctor might have killed someone on the table last month. Or accidentally prescribed the wrong medications. This isnt an argument for holistics here, just an observation. The bottom line, much like religion you have to do your homework. Be informed.
Joe,100% agree with your bottom line.
Scientology is a science of convincing, manipulating and deceiving people into believing “Scientology Works” but only if it is “Applied Correctly”.
Then it is a whole set of TECH that explains and justify’s WHY Scientology Does Not Work…
For Example:
No Case Gain = a Suppressive Person so either the person grinds away at a Bridge to no where – looking for those super powers….or the person will comb their mind after spending oodles and oodles of money on auditing – to make up a WIN if they don’t have one. After all, who wants to be a NCG / SP?
Keeping Scientology Working has claimed since the inception of it – that “WE HAVE THE CORRECT TECHNOLOGY” (the proven fraud)
…and then sells the sheeple regurgitated tech every 10 years or so….claiming the Church of Scientology – with the ” Wizard Tech to Confront and Shatter Suppression” – allowed SP’s to get into the Wizard Tech and taint it with malicious comma’s and diabolical semi-colons.
LOL
Absolutely insane now that one can look at it for what it really is.
I believe we now have the proof to get refunds for fraud and deception.
Excellent article and I think you are on to something there!
My feeling is that the medical professionals and the pharmaceutical companies and their agents do NOT want placebos to work. If and when they do they show the power of the human body, mind, and spirit to heal itself and there go their very much NEEDED profits and Our worship of them through attendance at their offices, hospitals, and pharmacies!
You worship doctors? That’s… different.
Whether (in the USA) it is legal or not I cannot say. But lying to a patient is certainly not ethical.
And a pharmacy in the USA would be required to correctly label any medication as to what it is – they cannot mislabel a sugar pill as an antibiotic.
You raise good points that the placebo effect helps cement the “wins” of auditing and other Scientology processing. I really appreciated your pointing out the markers for suggestion in the rituals around the session and then tying them back to the assertions in the National Geographic piece.
It’s important to note that, even after “stacking the deck” by all these hypnotic suggestions to enhance the effects of auditing with the placebo effect, Scientology auditing is still dying out as a practice. And it’s not just because of the ridiculous prices the official Church of Scientology charges. It appears that “independent Scientology” is dying out as well… It stands to reason that if auditing were all that effective once it was affordable and not provided by an evil organization nobody wants to deal with, then people would be flocking to it. Reiki practitioners, homeopaths, accupuncturists, reflexologists and many other “alternative medicine” practices are raking in the cash. But that “straight up and vertical” expansion for using an e-meter for personal growth is just not happening.
So my take is that the placebo aspects of auditing are basically all there is. Take that away and there’s approximately nothing of value.
*Footnote: I always point out that I have talked to some people who have convinced me that they have indeed gotten life-changing wins while they were auditing. I’m not saying that auditing NEVER works, because that is as improbable as auditing ALWAYS working. My analogy: some cancers go into remission spontaneously for reasons unknown (these are typically non-malignant early-stage one; few, if any, stage 4 malignant tumors do). And in virtually all of those cases, the patient was hoping that they would be cured. But cases of spontaneous remission while thinking happy thoughts don’t happen often enough to say that positive thinking can cure cancer.
Sorry, the above comment was intended to stand on its own and not as a reply to what KerBear said.
John P.: I like your analogy about cancer.
You’re making a basic mistake. Medical professionals and scientists are going to get paid anyway, regardless of whether something new works. It is the act of doing the science — pursuing the understanding and gaining new knowledge of what works and what doesn’t – that is important, which ultimately results in new things that DO work. Along the way, there will be and are expected to be many times when experimental results do not match hypothesis. This is not generally a huge deal.
In real science, it is *expected* for placebos to “work” to a certain degree.
The measurement of the differences between how much the placebo “worked” and how much a tested medicine worked and how much improvement to the target experienced by those who received neither the placebo or the test medicine are just the first part.
Then you have to be able to repeat the results. Again and again.
You identify and remove other variables as best you can, then see if the results come out the same.
chukicita, exactly. But in the Cof$, if it worked for one guy, it means it will work for EVERYONE, 100% of the time and if it doesn’t, then somebody did something wrong. OT3 is the perfect example of taking something one guy came up with and saying that it happened to everyone and if you personally can’t locate when it happened to you, then you’re just messed up and not prepared to handle it. Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.
This is like saying EVERYONE on this planet has been sexually molested and then making them find the incident where that occurred. Giving them literature to read on how it usually happens, what age, what circumstances, spending hours and hours on this preparation and then demanding they find the time when it happened to them. The subject looks and looks and they really WANT to be normal and fit in and they come up with times it could have maybe happened or the circumstances were right, but they never find the incident because IT DID NOT HAPPEN. In Cof$ though, the incident never happening to you is not an option. So then it becomes a fluster-cluck to figure out what’s wrong with you or your auditor or whoever; never the fact that it simply never occurred.
T-Marie: Thinking that one man’s fantasy is common to all people on Earth is indeed crazy.
Terra Cognita, yes, it is!