Ah, the certainty. The arrogance. The absolute conviction that your belief overcomes all facts.
This is an example of a scientology fundamentalist (he also happens to make his living collecting donations for his “psychsearch” business in addition to being the “Overt Data Collection” guy for OSA Flag).
The “plan to take down psychiatry” is to file complaints against psychiatrists.
That assumes the majority of, if not all, psychiatrists are doing something for which a complaint could be filed. And then that those complaints are all found to have grounds and “Hey Presto” the psychs are “taken down.” This is indeed an article of faith for scientologists — all psychs are criminals. After all, according to scientology scripture, they are “whole track implanters” who originate on the planet Farsec and are intent upon enslaving mankind. (Not going to comment on the obvious holes in the story, only note this IS what scientologists believe, though the Farsec is from a confidential “advice” restricted to those in the SO who are “high enough case level and in good enough shape” to be allowed to read this revealed “truth.”)
This plan is akin to the snake healers society putting together a plan to take out the evil medical profession that does not believe in the power of God to heal all man’s ills. They circulate an email to all the snake healers and their disciples telling them to file complaints against medical professionals and this will then “take down” the evil men of medicine.
I don’t think Ken Kramer or any of the people he targets with these emails (except perhaps those that forward them to me) have ever noticed just how many psychiatrists there are in the US (or the world for that matter). For the record, the Bureau of Labor statistics says there are 25,000+ employed psychiatrists in the US. And how many patients? Anyone’s guess. But there are clearly many more practicing psychiatrists in the US than there are scientologists, let alone practicing auditors (that number is probably less than 1000).
But Ken Kramer is “taking down” psychiatry. “Just think big, bigger, bigger!” Funny, David Miscavige announced sometime in the early 2000’s that psychiatry would be “obliterated” by 2010.
In fact, psychiatrist numbers are increasing while scientologist numbers are decreasing. The reason scientology is not being crushed by psychiatry and Big Sumo Pharma is that they don’t perceive it as any sort of threat. As much as scientology wants to believe they are “impinging”, the truth is they are invisible.
This is the same sort of blind faith evident in the constant statements from orgs that make one clear a year or a week or a day “we are clearing our area (of 20 million people).”
I think these people ARE delusional. Isn’t that some sort of induced mental illness?
On the planet Farsec, they sing this rollicking rendition in beer halls across the Gaseous Giant.
~ “Source” ~
‘The’ Source is of course, of course, the Source,
And no one can talk to the Source of course
That is, of course, unless the Source is the famous Ellar Aitch.
Go right to the Source and ask of course
He’ll give you the answer that you’ll endorse
He’s always on a steady course,
Talk to Ellar Aitch.
People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
But Ellar Aitch will never speak unless he has something that pays
The Source is of course, of course the Source
And this one’ll talk ’til his voice is hoarse
You never heard of a stalking Source
Well listen to this,
He is Ellar Aitch.
Hi Max Spaceman, It is good to meet you. What a post! I must tell you the lyrics and tune had me singing right along with the vacuum cleaner! All hail Farsec sure pumps out tons of hot, dirty air! Love,Ann.
Laying in bed, just sang it to the Mrs. Got a bravo. Thanks spaceman.
“Psyciatrized patients..”???? This guy is so Scientologized he can’t think straight.
What is so obvious to those outside the bubble who have any knowledge of LRH’s actual history, is that he was sore at psychiatry his whole life because it rejected him. It’s probably hard to know who he hated more – his ex wives, women in general, or psychiatrists.
That his followers took up arms, for all these decades, for the great aim of “defeating psychiatry” is still baffling to me – can’t they see the guy just got his feelings hurt?
Laughter!
I’m pretty new to blogging – 5 months. I just discovered that reading the comments (not all of them) from the bottom up is fun!
I am really sorry, Roger, but that’s just a lame justification for a VERY destructive subject. Comparing psychiatry to medicine ? To capitalism ?Come on , you certainly can do better than that. Did you even take a look at the 2 links I posted ealier on ? Why don’t you take a good real unbiased and objective look at it, and find out for yourself what psychiatry is really all about ? If you want me to, I can certainly enlighten you with many backed up evidence. Shall we play ?
Best,
Peter
Peter, there are people who feel the same way about capitalism as you do about psychiatry. Find out about capitalism, Peter, it’s the worst thing that has ever happened to mankind!!! Let me refer you to some literature that will make your blood boil! If you don’t want to read it then you’re not pulling your weight as a citizen of the planet! Just kidding. Two can play at that game you know. My point is that all injustices and tyrannies come from people being people. Psychiatry is a science-based discipline. It never did anything. Only people do things.
Read the blog page here:
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-psychiatric-hypocrisy/
Here is one psychiatrist that Scientology will probably not be using as an expert witness in the Laura Ann DeCrescenzo case:
“Australian Psychiatrist Says Modern Psychiatry Has No Scientific Basis—Drugs are Crude & Damaging Treatment…..Dr. Niall (Jock) McLaren is an Australian psychiatrist who uses philosophical analysis to show that modern psychiatry has no scientific basis…”
http://www.cchrint.org/2012/11/19/psychiatrynoscientificbasis/
This same psychiatrist, which CCHR displays a piece about on their website, I happened to ask in an email (5May2015) if he had read Dianetics:
Hi Jock
I read some of your material last night.
Have you read Dianetics?
Doctor McLaren wrote back to me later the same day, saying that he was aware of Dianetics “but only as an example of pseudoscience”. Adding that he felt there was “enough [pseudoscience] in psychiatry already without adding to it.”
Fair enough!
Thanks, Bob
Over the last few days, I’ve been listening to
Dianetics Lectures And Demonstrations (five compact discs).
Four lectures given in Oakland, California, in September 1950:
Disc 1. Introduction to Dianetics (23 Sep 1950)
Disc 2. What Dianetics Can Do (23 Sep 1950)
Disc 3&4. Running An Engram (28 Sep 1950)
Disc 5. How To Resolve Stalled Cases (28 Sep 1950)
Every cult needs an “enemy” , a target to attack. The phenomena is inherently part of any cult. In the case of Scn , at the general public level is “Psychiatry” and Big Pharma supporting psychiatric drugs. Internally speaking , at the level of Staff/SO, speacially OTs , is “The Marcabians” and their “implanting” methods which are allegedly run by psychiatrist extraterrestrials.
Actually , any sane and unbiased look into psychiatry – which is NOT the same in any way , shape or form as “psychology” and most forms of available psychotherapy by a very long ways – is OBSTRUCTED by Scientology itself as when people in general (those billion “Wogs” ) listen Scientologists utter their hate against psychiatry, they totally dismiss any idea of any possible REAL threat in the subject (which DOES EXIST) , as the utterances are coming from a crazy cult. So to THAT exact degree , Scientology all by ITSELF , is the BIGGEST stop against any kind of reforms to the subject of psychiatry, that DOES needs reform, and desperately so.
LRH was a liar and a con man.
End of moral analysis.
Exactly. No more to be said. If he thinks something’s wrong with psychiatry, it holds no water at all! There’s no logical, sensible reason behind it and, apart from a few hysterical reports on the subject, always from arrogant scientologists, most of us don’t even know what psychiatry is getting up to these days.
Hi Mike,
I made a comment and it somehow came out as a reply to an earlier comment I made. This was unintentional. Don’t’ know if you can fix it – if not, then no problem – I intended it to stand on its own as a separate comment.
Ken Krammer is certifiable. He is also an ‘abuser’, a know best and it’s his way or the highway. Have worked with him and though he may seem mild on the surface, but once the sheen is stripped away, there is a dark force underneath. Not to be trusted.
Actually, it’s not think big bigger bigger, it’s “thing” big bigger bigger according to the non-proof read letter.
Yep, Ken wants his “thing big, bigger, bigger” … but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
How can anyone file a complaint about a psychiatrist unless he or she has BEEN to a psychiatrist and observed or experienced some outpoint?
How could a still in koolaid drinker be seeing a shrink so as to have such a complaint to file? Only non-Scientologists avail themselves of psychiatry!
If Ken Kramer’s comm is NOT being pitched to still in Scientologists, and instead being pitched to people who DO see shrinks, then his “call to arms” about taking down psychiatry would not resonate because, unlike the Co$ and its KA drinkers, people who have experienced abuses at the hands of psychiatry would simply want the abuses noted and punished perhaps but such people would not necessarily want the entire profession taken down, and such people would be put off by his “mission statement”.
.What am I missing, here? Obviously I am missing something because what Kramer is attempting to do makes no sense, whether he’s pitching it to the Sheeple or to non-Scientologists.
They try to go to these patients and get them to file complaints.
Based on some of the dirty tricks and manipulations and deceit I saw when “in,” I would not be surprised if some Scientologists actually go to a psychiatrist to try to set them up to find some — any — basis for a complaint, and if they cannot find one, fabricate one.
When I was left the SO in 1998 I briefly was doing some Volunteer works for CCHR OC, they were doing the exact same thing the, Same old same ole.
Although happily no longer the recipient of Churchcircular emails like the above, I still get emails from time to time telling me Mike is the Antichrist or something. Here’s how I answered the last one (about Karen De La C), cc enquiries@shf, cc cult solicitor in the UK Peter Hodkin:
Martin Padfield
27 Jan (12 days ago)
to enquiry, info
Dear Sirs,
Despite several communications requesting no further hate-filled and unpleasant spam emails from your “Church”, I continue to receive such to this email address. A recent example is below. They can all be traced back to your spy wing – the Office of Special Affairs.
This, despite apparently having been “deadfiled” according to your own internal doctrines and policy.
I consider this a form of harassment and have amassed a considerable dossier for use in any future action. I recently had to take one of your OT Ambassadors to task for discriminatory behaviour; he lost his appeal and was forced to pay a fine and issue an apology. I would have no hesitation in taking whatever action is necessary in this case.
Note to Peter Hodkin: I now have enough data to newly re-visit the Data Access request with cast iron evidence that personal data on me has been illegally shared. If you would like to finally supply all the data originally requested then I will take the matter no further. If I don’t hear from you then I will be starting a new request and supplying the ICO Office with ALL the information they will need to come to a decision.
Yours faithfully,
Martin Padfield
PS: Like most of the Class XII auditors trained under LRH, Karen was declared SP by current management. What does that tell you?
Good job as usual Martin.
Your friend,
The Antichrist
“I can shatter OT’s with a single glance”
Hi Martin Padfield, Thank you for your post.Karen #1 and you are both on my heroes list. It is wonderful to see you both here. Love, Ann.
There’s a simpler and more effective way. I terminatedly handled all of my org email by simply pointing out that sending unsolicited mail is against federal law. (CANSPAM Act) I then say that further emails will be reported to the FCC and FTC (there are official lines to report complaints). Done.
That doesn’t help Martin, who lives in the UK. It would help US residents, though.
Here’s what Ron said back in 10 November 1952, this excerpt is from the lecture series called “Source of Life Energy”, part of the “Basics” that every scientologist is to do now.
This is from disc 5 called Introduction: The Q List and Beginning of Logic:
Ron says—————-
“There are certain things which I have decided to be mad at in this universe. I’ve decided to be mad at psychiatrists. There is no reason why I should be mad at psychiatrists. Really, the sensible thing for me to do about psychiatrists is simply go over and talk to them, make a couple of patients well, show them how they can make bigger fees, pat them all on the head, and you’ve got Dianetics and psychiatry. But there is no randomity there. No randomity at all. They’re never going to hurt a preclear, really. I can rave and rant about electric shock and prefrontal lobotomy- you can pick them up in the next life and they’ll be as good as new.”
I’m glad I’m not playing Ron’s game anymore, and besides, he’s dead, and he’s not coming back. How wrong can you be, dead. LOL
I was trying to make sense of that ramble – oops, wrong move
What Ron once-upon-a-time said about a psychiatrist:
“We have—a psychiatrist, Dr. Turner, of Huntington, Long Island is a very, very good auditor. He is magnificent. He’s got that cool, calm detachment so that—he was working a paranoid schiz and the paranoid schiz, that particular day, had brought a gun with him and the paranoid schiz rolled over and cocked the gun. And Dr. Turner took it out of his hand and put it over on the dresser and told him to go back to the engram. This man is the coolest hand with a psychotic I’ve ever seen. That’s his natural business, and with all of his vast knowledge and experience in psychiatry, that man is invaluable.” What Dianetics Can Do lecture (23Sep1950)
Sadly I agree there are clearly many more practicing psychiatrists in the US than there are Scientologists, let alone practicing auditors (that number is probably less than 1000).
Of the 25000+ licensed psychiatrists in the USA their median salary is $209,000/yr. Auditors make less. Which do the people of America value more?
Let’s do some thinking here and figure out who the implantors and the ethical people really are by seeing how they handle problems with their fellow practitioners:
A councilor finds out that another councilor is abusing patients. Does this councilor:
A. report this to the proper authorities and see to that this other councilor is banned from practice and faces criminal charges as appropriate to the level of abuse. With safe guards in place to prevent the abuser from ever being put in a position of trust again. Even testifying against other abuser if necessarily. With this taking places in plane view of the public and media? Does he genuinely try to help the victims of abuse get over the abuse.
Or
B: Does he talk to an internal ethics terminal who tells the councilor to keep quite about this less BAD PR. Who hands this off to a clandestine group within the organisation who’s number one goal is to see to that this never makes the light of day by threatening everyone involved with revealing their secrets. Is the abuser given a slap on the wrist because of upstatness with future potential victims not being warned of the abuser’s past. Does the councilor attempt to make the victim realize that the abuse was really their fault and that they pulled it IN while silencing them.
Yeah, I think I know which group is the implantor and which is ethical after that.
Yeah, me too! Nicely put.
Sometimes it seems like satire for Saturday Night Live.
Is it real ?
Can they be THAT delusional?
See this short clip… The Year is 2007 Miscavige promises to eradicate the whole “Psychiatric eco system” Laugh with me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfu7Sr50N7U
I’m sorry Karen#1. The closest I ever got to Scientology was Werner Erhard. My brief stint with Mr. E provided not nearly enough woo to decode all of this “oratory.” Sounds like gobbledygook to my untrained ears!
Thanks for the link, Karen. It’s interesting that in that 2006/2007 clip, Miscavige cites the press extensively as evidence that their campaign is working, yet typically the press is dismissed as having nothing valid to say about them. If the press isn’t to be trusted, don’t cite them as proof your plans are working. It’s fascinating that he cites column inches as evidence, I’d love Mike to do a ‘column inches’ analysis of how much bad PR Scientology has in comparison.
Scientology syllogism:
1. Man (woman) is basically good
2. Psychiatrists are men and women
3. Psychiatrists are basically good
I love your reasoning!
Does someone from Farsec qualify as ‘man’?
Sad there isn’t a quack Religion licensing board ex-members could right complaints to.
Oh yes please….. I still think that the whole “religious exceptions” protection crap should stop too. Why should a religion be protected and not subject to basic laws and human rights like the rest of us. One ring tonrule them all…….hahahaha
Wow todays post has really caused a lot of contention. We all have the right to our own sanity and to play any game we want to as long as that game doesn’t hurt or damage another without agreement to do so. So I thank you all for great posts and Mike for his blog. Oh yeah if you hate the game your playing change it,to one you like. My game today is to find a new girlfriend who likes to drink beer and fish.
The best way to take down psychiatry is to offer a better, more effective system and demonstrate its efficacy through clinical trials (not pester a few psychiatrists who may or may not have misbehaved). I’ve never been a fan of psychiatry but at least it’s a science-based discipline that is dealing with the sort of people scientology won’t touch. Scientology is professedly for the able not the unable. What does scientology propose to do with people who are hallucinating and hearing voices in their heads? Hubbard railed against psychiatry but never offered an alternative that could prove itself. When you’re treating people who are genuinely incapacitated it isn’t enough to give them subjective “wins”. You’ve got to effect objectively verifiable results. If such a person were to say, “my dynamics have expanded to infinity!” would you think he was on the road to recovery?
Well in our mothers case back in 1989 I can tell you what they didn’t do, they didn’t help her.
They didn’t help her seek medical care, and didn’t alert her friends or family that she needed help. After 20 years as a loyal & dedicated member, 5 years on Staff, 2 years in the SO, 50+ PC folders and achieving OT VII, not to mention disconnecting from all of her family along the way, they left her to walk into oncoming traffic.
But not only did they completely desert her in her darkest hour, we know in our hearts that the psychological coercion and identity hijacking that she experienced over those 20 years, combined with being targeted at the end for writing up off policy that she saw at Flag is what caused her split from reality in 1989.
So they drove her to a psychotic break, and then left her there to suffer, to die, whatever. After her funds were exhausted, they absolutely abandoned her.
They only want to “help” happy healthy wealthy people, and the moment you are not all of those things, well then they’re done with you.
We were relieved at the time but in retrospect it’s awfully strange that after we quietly intervened to get her help back then not a single solitary Scientologist, Reg, Recruiter, or any of her many friends ever cared enough to seek her out or come looking for her, so the disconnection from humanity certainly runs very deep.
In stark contrast to that, over the last 27 years she’s had plenty of exposure to & care from from “psychiatry” of all types counseling, meds, therapy etc, and while there are absolutely varying levels of experience, and differing styles, they have been nothing but compassionate, even loving, and have never harmed her, betrayed her, deserted or abandoned her like Scientology did.
Hi It’s Me!(@lovespeedracer), Very good to see your post and an extremely powerful one it is. All I want to do is send you & yours love and light and thank you for being here. Love, Ann.
To: It’s Me. Unfortunately your tale betrays one of the darkest and strangest sides of the Scientology experience. Unlike some people, I do not consider that the people who have disconnected from me “were never my friends.” I had in fact friends for up to 35 years, a few who were VERY close to me on more than one dynamic. We are talking many DECADES here. But the concept of “the stand up guy”? or a person who will show compassion to a friend who is truly in need, or very sick, or with severe financial problems, or heaven forbid, will actually STAND UP TO OTHERS defending a close friend …. ???? Don’t look for those qualities in Scientologists. You will see a flicker of them occasionally or help offered for a very short duration (oftentimes just referring you to “source” or the “correct terminal” to see), but that’s about it. It isn’t just that the humanity has been sucked out of people. It’s really that these are concepts are not included in the Scientology experience, and CERTAINLY not valued all, quite the opposite.. They are considered almost contra-productive or counter intention if two much attention is put on them. And yes, the attention put on them is considered much better directed (and “survival”) if directed towards fulfilling “command intention.
About thirty years ago, one of the founders of my org became terminally ill. He was in his mid 70s I think by that time and a legendary figure locally in Scientology. The good thing is that ONE couple decided to take responsibility for him and see him through this cycle (getting to hospitals, getting food, cleaning his place during his last months). Yes, fantastic that they did this, AND ON THEIR OWN. But you would have thought he didn’t exist in the org. No mention of him at musters or even in private conversations, much less ANY motion by ANYONE in the org to provide help to this fellow or the couple that was assisting him, on their own dime I might mention too. Yeah, try arranging for daily touch assists for someone in real need, from the org. Good luck on that.
Wow Joe, you have perfectly described the “friend” dynamic and culture of Scn. I experienced the exact things you described. Even had a member of our close group of “friends” die of cancer. Upon hearing the diagnosis, all of our “friends” quietly disconnected, leaving myself and my partner to assist him in his final days. Disgraceful.
I am ashamed to have once thought of them as friends.
Hi statpush, Thank you for your powerful post. You are such a good person and a very bright spirit. Love, Ann.
Joe, I have to agree on this. Emotion is something which is considered bad within Scientology. However, I do believe this is a great misunderstanding and a big vacuum that’s created there. The emotional band on the Tone Scale is very real and very humane. I have to agree with your observations and experiences and I think that all such things will show up in the future for what they are: great Misunderstandings. A (really) high toned being is not afraid to show friendship and be emotional. That of course is my own opinion but I have seen it happen within the church. A kind of no sympathy level of emotion. Stuck on that.
Hi Theo. I like what you wrote here about Emotion being bad in Scn culture and I agree. It’s amazing to me how good people can be turned into No Sympathy, (I call it lack of Empathy) robotic beings when it comes to the subject of Scn policies, goals of the church, and the whole ‘the end justifies the means’ actions taken on the parishioners. It has come to be a stuck emotional band for sure as a group in the orgs. Very sad and damaging for people, who are emotional beings by nature. Take care.
Per No1 of THE CODE OF HONOR it states the following:
“Never desert a comrade in need, in danger or in trouble.”
Hi Eamonn Gosney, Thank you for the code of honor. The thing was I totally believed that was truth and beauty,until all those words and deeds were one by one violated and crossed off the list for me.In other words the do as I say, not as I do tag-team.Love,Ann.
and best wishes to you and yours, also
Mike, Thank you for this interesting post. I am glad to see individuals like Theo, who are willing to debate without shaming or cursing others! He doesn’t seem to have the attack mentally you see in so many Scions and ex-scions. Theo, if Miscavage was as composed and ethical as you seem, the environment in CoS would be much more pleasant.
That being said, I personally don’t see how Scientology helps society. You (Theo) spoke about the fear of increased warfare and danger in our times. Many of my Evangelical Christian friends speak of the same fear. (ie: promiscuity, increase in warfare, evil government etc). Unfortunately this “fear” mentality has caused so much social division as people are searching for “the answer” to make them safe. This usually involves claiming to have special knowledge and excludes other people and differing points of view.
We only need to look at history to see there has always been destruction and death. Societies have been wiped out and people groups have suffered through slavery. Being a white non-Jewish woman, I have been exempt from most of that suffering. When you expand your community to include different nationalities, races, cultures and their histories, you will begin to see that our world has always had evil. The answer-I certainly don’t know, but narrowing your world does not help. We need to listen, not just talk!
Mike has known “Source”. He knows personally the type of man LRH was and the fantasy world he created. Miscavage just grabbed the power and perverted it more. Mike has experienced the truth. Scientology teaches that all truth emirates from the “Source”. He also knows how broken, illogical and destructive LRH, the Source and his teachings really are. Thank you Mike for not only “looking” but revealing the truth about the church.
Well said Ann. Theo lives in Greece. I was considering what my mindset would be, living in New Jersey, if bombs were dropping in Ohio or Maine.
Τhank you Richard. Europe is under an unprecedented influx of refugees. Compounded by terrorist attacks and all that I feel is fabricated. Too many died in Syria and are gonna die and my heart goes to those who survived and lost their beloved ones. It’s un unprecedented scene for Europe. The greek islands have been flooded with refugees and immigrants. This has never happened before to such extent and it’s really something to worry about. Someone is creating all that turmoil in the area. Maybe no bigger war is gonna happen but what is certain is that Europe is being Muslimised. The worst is that those people are not willing to change and they wanna keep their own habits which creates bigger problems in the area. Compound that with real fundamentalists and jihadis and you have a weird to say the least cocktail for Greece and Europe.
I have to think that if anyone has a legitimate complaint about a psychiatrist, they would lodge it with the APA or whatever, not this stupid website run by a man who can’t even copy edit his own email. and when no one reports on his website, his excuse will be “the psychs got to those people! they are being brainwashed to think they’re actually being helped by psychs!”
Meanwhile, the amount of help that scientology provides to people who are mentally ill is less than zero, and in fact, just as cruel or worse than what they’re accusing the psychiatric community of. was psychiatry pretty awful in the early years? absolutely! did they do horrible stuff to people? yes. are there abuses committed by psychiatrists today? I’m sure there are. but I would bet they are far less than the abuses committed by scientology on a daily basis with regard to the mental health of their parishioners.
the amount of time wasted by the people in scientology boggles my mind. because Mike is right, all the time Ken Kramer and other scientologists spend thinking about psychs, the psychs are not thinking about scientology at all.
Round and round the merry go round goes. Scientologists don’t even know, let alone apply their own stuff. Their very own technical dictionary defines the difference between psychiatry & scientology as psychiatry is authoritarian and tells the person what is wrong with them and scientology finds out what is wrong with the person from the person themselves.
Geezers! If you read that and know anything about interpreting the English language miscavige is the biggest psych of all. He is totally authoritarian, finger declares, assigns massive sec checks on everyone as routine, enforces his will on everyone and anyone with a different opinion from the one he let’s them have is sec checked to within an inch of their lives, RPF’d or if they are really important, given the ‘Truth Rundown’ to change their mind by force. If none of that works he throws them out, simple formula and he has many minions who enthusiastically do his work for him. In miscavige’s mind there is no difference between staff and public.
OSA grades people by their ability or inability to tow the line of group think and do what they are told, how authoritarian or ‘psychie’ is that?
This is way beyond becoming what you resist, scientologists are their own definition of psych’s because that’s where the money and power over people is… it’s completely intentional from upper management (plus it’s the only tech they know how to apply). So, what’s the difference between scientology and a dictatorship? There isn’t any! Scientology doesn’t want you to have sanity, they only want your obedience and above all – your money.
Hear hear! 🙂
Scientology taking on and thinking they can/will eradicate Psychiatry is ludicrous. Always has been in my mind. I agree wholeheartedly that they are naïve and stupid in their ass-backwards approach to this issue.
That being said, I do support championing for major change & reform in this particular field of “health care”.
I’m not exactly in favour of the practice of Psychiatry. I don’t believe they can or want to “cure” mental illness – in fact they categorically state that they (a) do not know what causes mental illness and (b) cannot cure it, but can only try alleviate it’s symptoms – almost always with the use of drugs.
If a Psychiatrist “cures” his patients he loses clients. I’m not saying all have this view, but it is an interesting point to ponder considering they openly admit there is no cure for mental illness – once they have you in their grip and you’re on those drugs, they & Big Pharma have a client for life.
Very seldom have I ever heard of a Psychiatrist checking for underlying causes of apparent “mental illness” of which there are many – malnutrition, hormone imbalances, extraordinary stress, allergies to foods and other organic illnesses that could be treated relatively easily with effective & thorough investigation and standard mainstream healthcare.
I speak from personal experience having suddenly started suffering from panic attacks some years ago. Numerous doctors wanted to give me Psych drugs and send me on my way. Being a SCN you can imagine how embarrassing this was for me – admitting that I had some debilitating “mental illness”. Thank God for a wonderful doctor (who happened to be a Scientologist – now declared and out) who discovered I had ZERO Oestrogen in my system – coupled with a few other underlying medical conditions & vitamin deficiencies – all 100% treatable with diet adjustment, hormone therapy etc. He saved my life.
I have done enough investigation into this subject to know that heinous practices abound in the field of “mental health”. Myself and a reporter from a major newspaper did an expose on this some years back – so I speak from personal first-hand witnessed accounts – not “I read somewhere”.
I have personally witnessed appalling conditions extant in Psych hospitals – enough to give me nightmares for months. I have been into Psych institutions and interviewed patients who have been “punished” with ECT – administered without the use of anaesthetics, resulting in bitten off tongues, broken bones and major trauma.
I met a man who was suffering from diabetes, misdiagnosed as mentally ill, sent to a Psych hospital, fed mind-numbing drugs and given ECT – he was destroyed mentally before the “real” reason for his odd behaviour was found (Hypoglycaemia symptoms can mimic “mental illness” very well). This person will never be able to enter normal society and is a patient of the state until the day he dies.
I have interviewed a pregnant woman who was given ECT as a punishment for falling pregnant to her boyfriend while interned in the hospital.
The week prior to my visit at one institution, a patient committed suicide by hanging himself in a tree – the staff left him hanging there as a “message” to other inmates if they put a foot out of line. If patients “act up” they are punished by having their clothes removed from them and they are forced to wear their pyjamas until they conform.
I spoke to the staff at these institutions – asked how many people are ever cured or released. The answer? Virtually none. The reason? The state pays the hospital per bed filled per day. They are raking in the MONEY…..
What incentive does a Psych hospital have to cure it’s patients when they’re paid to fill beds? I believe it’s the same with the prison system in the USA – rehabilitation is not their game – it’s not profitable.
In the apartheid era in South Africa, horrendous crimes were committed against black people in Psychiatric institutes – these are documented facts and were taken up and investigated during the Truth & Reconciliation Commission.
Recently, a renowned Psychiatrist from South Africa fled to Canada after he had left a wake of destruction behind him with his “revolutionary” therapy of ECT to “treat” homosexuality. Fearing prosecution for his crimes, he fled to Canada and promptly walked into a highly prestigious position on the Board of Psychiatry in that country. He is now in prison for his crimes after one of his patients secretly recorded his own rape at the hands of this man.
Sorry, but the field of Psychiatry and “mental health” doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzies. Anything but.
I am 150% with you on this , Shelley ; Let’s make that 200%. Not all psychiatrists do that, of course , and there are many of them who don’t medicate. There is even a coalition called “The Antipsychiatry Coalition” formed by many MDs and even by many psychiatrists themselves, besides formerly abused psychiatric patients. Perhaps you’ll be interested in finding out more about them. Here is the link :
http://www.antipsychiatry.org/
And they have this vary interesting note at the end of their webpage :
” No Scientologists, please: Anyone joining us will be asked for assurance they are not affiliated with the “Church” of Scientology or its Citizen’s Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), which have publicized the harm done by psychiatry but which we want no affiliation with. This web site does have links to YouTube video critiques of psychiatry by CCHR because these videos are excellent and accurate and worth seeing, but this should not be interpreted as an endorsement of CCHR or Scientology.”
It is incredible how many different unkown/undetected body illnesses or nutritional/glandular deficiencies can cause symptoms of insanity/depression/Schizophrenia, etc ; so easy to remedy by competent medical practitioners , with standard treatments, and proper diets.
I am SO, SO happy that you got effectively helped . Don’t expect many acks from many posters here. Once LRH is found to have opposed anything (many of which oppositions were misguided and absurd) ; the subject having been opposed by him is IMMEDIATELY dismissed as being worthy of being unbiasely examined and evaluated. But you are NOT alone on this ; of that I am 100% certain of. So , keep the torch of Freedom lit , dear ; you are a very strong thetan.
Best,
Peter
Yeah…
“Very seldom have I ever heard of a Psychiatrist checking for underlying causes of apparent “mental illness” of which there are many… “. From a couple of experiences?
Psychiatry admits to not being able to cure mental illness – how much do you know about mental illness or its causes? Perhaps it’s not curable. Perhaps drugs do help. Read books.
L. Ron Hubbard made ludicrous claims about the body, its ills, mental states, abilities gained after a shitload of money was paid to him; and other half bat things – like body thetans. Without inspection, we bought it. I respect a profession who is honest about their limitations. Scientists admit there is much about the universe they don’t know.
With regards the Apartheid government and black people, the Apartheid government had its own agenda. Where’s the proof? Who’s the source of this claim? Someone who stumbled across a disused mine facility that housed undernourished blacks – and the whole profession is slated? The Joburg church played out this incident for all its worth with the help of a journalist. I say no more.
How many good psychiatrists and there by comparison to the “evil psychs” (a scn label)? I’d bet the former outnumber the baddies by far.
I’d hesitate to malign a whole profession on flimsy evidence or assumptions based on hearsay. I know doctors, dentists, plumbers, carpenters, etc, whom I would not touch with a barge pole. Does that mean their entire professions are corrupt?
Books are written about mental illness by knowledgable, experienced, caring medical people in easy language so the layman can follow.
I cannot find anything that you’ve said holds weight. It’s general and with scanty solid information. I wouldn’t condemn a profession on that.
I don’t mean disrespect or sound arrogant but it’s a mistake to accept something as factual when it’s not been categorically proven to be so. Especially if the first time you were told psychiatry was evil was in a scientology church! Much objective inspection of the facts needs to take place or – zip up!
Do I support psychiatry? I have no reason to either support it and or not. I don’t have enough information.
Remember us buying up a whole lot of scn on hearsay, that of a con artist? Let’s learn from this mistake and not do it again ESPECIALLY when it comes from the same source, this is, this hate of “evil” psychiatry. L.Con had his reasons which were self serving and not based on anything logical or factual. We should really not do this again/continue doing this. Let’s leave these guys alone. What do we know about them, after all? Really? They can’t ALL be bad.
” Do I support psychiatry? I have no reason to either support it and or not. I don’t have enough information.”
Then LOOK for such information, and get educated on it before dismissing anyone else’s claims. That inf ABOUND in the Web in MANY professional sites.
Thetaclear, and what of the other side of the coin? If you’re going to decide whether or not an entity is good or bad, you need the statistics from both sides.
I think we should rather concentrate our efforts on exposing the dangers of scientology instead of targeting another group. Let’s face it, psychiatry seems here to stay and I believe it will be in existence long after scienotology’s demise. Pyschiatry is growing, scientology’s membership is diminishing at a startling rate.
Most of us know the dark history and objectionable practices of psychiatry without having to make such a lengthy emotional appeal. Your criticisms against it can be extended to include the entire medical field. Look at how doctors prescribe medication for hypertension instead of treating the cause of it. They don’t know what causes it and are ambivalent when you suggest you’d prefer to explore lifestyle changes before committing to a lifelong pharmaceutical solution. There isn’t much profit in making people healthy and keeping them that way. Big Pharma is profit motivated and physicians are indoctrinated to that science.
Scientology is similar. Indoctrination and the profit motive prevail to keep scientologists constantly spending money on services. It is a lifelong commitment to purchasing. Cha ching! Scientology has its own dark history. So does capitalism, and just about everything human beings get their hands on. I’m not all warm and fuzzy about psychiatry either but there are people on this blog who have been pulled out of desperation by utilizing it.
Hi Shelley, Thank you for your interesting post. From my experience, I am not warm & fuzzy about any of the therapy profession and Scientology today. However, I would not condemn all in either the shrink world or the indie world of cos.As long as there is no harm or hurt involved, if people have been helped by either party, that is fine with me.I look forward to more of your posts.Love,Ann.
Have you tried Milestone II, Theo?
Theo! Spot yourself on this scale: http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html I have watched Marty and Mike and most of the other ex $cientologists seem to follow this scale, some faster than others. Truth inevitably wins.
That’s just a negative scale… where is the positive one? When you make one (or whoever did it) just let me know. Probably I will be high enough and OUTSIDE THE FUCKING CHURCH, TOO….
You know there is a Tone 45! Ever heard of it? First lecture of the PDCs. The fool of Tarot. Knows all agreement and does nothing about it. Just having some fun… like others do. But the guy KNOWS all agreement and… does nothing about it. So, there is two ways for the way… out. One from the top and one from the bottom. I can understand the necessity of some to succumb and have others succumb, too. It’s an old, a very old game.
Many great points made in this article and comments today. I’m going back to basics. Psychiatry has always been ‘the devil’ in Scientology and includes priests, ministers, rabbis, mullahs, licensed marriage and family therapists, etc. It’s one thing to rail against the practice of surgically altering a brain in an effort to cure mental illness and quite another to give comfort in the form of consolation or a listening ear. Here is where things start to go off the rails; when parishioners are forbidden to seek outside forms of help because they are violating KSW, when perhaps KSW is not helping them to deal with their issues, and maybe it’s not even the appropriate course of action for the given situation.
Compounding this, Psychiatry in all of its perceived forms, is used as a money grab on the parishioners. How many of us have fallen into the IAS pitch that if we just make that donation, or stretch ourselves a little bit more, the IAS is going to end Psychiatry forever, and there will be no more human abuse?
As far as Mr. Kramer goes, he’s a believer who thinks he is doing a relevant service for mankind. There is a difference in intention between him as an individual and Miscavige = IAS using Psychiatry to defraud its parishioners to fill up IAS coffers.
The anti-psyche stance is COS hypocrisy at its best. Per their own policies, anyone who has been treated by a mental health professional is not eligible for Scn auditing. The same goes for anyone who is deemed “mentally ill.” The fact is psychiatry is treating people (who I’ll assume are in need of treatment) that the COS will not treat, much less allow them through their doors.
The Cherch of Scientology looks at it this way, the more help you need, the worse off you probably are. And that means you are probably low on cash. And it also means you are a greater potential liability to them, (PTS) and since they are the most ethic….naw …. LITIGIOUS group on the planet, you can pound sand.
Talk about mental torment and abuses! There are hundreds, if not thousands, suffering from the abuses and “standard tech” of this group. Call it a religion. Call it a cult. Call it “standard tech” or “squirrel.” Call it Divine. It’s abusive. Period. I shutter to think what would happen to people who needed mental help if they were turned over to the church of scientology and there were no where else for them to go.
It can and does happen. People have been turned over to the ‘care’ of the church when they needed a professional. Bad things happened. Suicides, broken-down people, Lisa McPherson.
“Psychiatrized?” Really? “Kablam?” I would have gone with Kaboom. And “Peace?” I mean, I like ending written communication with Peace, but they usually end with ML (Much Lunacy). But, at the very end he says, “THING Big. Bigger. Bigger. Sorry Ken, but, that’s just way TMI for me. Maybe you should tone it down a little….
“Psychiatrized?” “Kablam?” I would have gone with Kaboom. “Peace?” No ML? But the most shocking part of that letter is at the bottom where he says, ‘”THING’ Big, Bigger. Bigger.” I mean, I’m certainly not a prude, but, that’s way TMI! And he seems proud of it by writing about his “thing.” Such a wacky cult….
thanks for the wonderful laugh
If psychs are thetan implants from Farsec and they have no ‘cognition’ of their past lives, how are they evil mind rapers? Why do they not have the ability to choose a different career? Why are they the only ones locked into constant do over of those past lives? And who was a psych in the year zero?
If a psych were to join clamville (and some do) and recover their past lives, why are there no ‘success stories’ about that triumph?
Kramer is just another scammer working on those who have already bought the scam. That is a very fertile playing field.
I know we’re all talking about the Psyches here, but, I guess no one noticed that the the OTs at the Denver Org won the Super Bowl for the Broncos. It wasn’t the Bronco defense that won the game. It was OT postulates! I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, the The Church of Scientology actually delivers what it promises. I just have to figure out which Org I want to return too……..
Yeah, it’s truth like that that curdles your cereal milk. How could we be so misled? I wonder if those scios can be convinced to do assignments like, “rent-a-postulate” and give over next weeks lotto numbers. They have footy games down – it seems only fair… doesn’t it? We haven’t been all that bad. Well… a little maybe but let’s appeal to their compassionate side. Then we’ll sign up (again) for a billion + years.
Wait….what? C’mon, I Yawn! You and I both know that we’re are bad to the bone! Don’t try to cover it up….
I definitely noticed that OSD. That is the only way Denver could have beaten Carolina.
You are one smart man, Doug! You knew it was the OT postulates that won the game. I’m impressed! Now, all we have to do is pick which Idle Morgue we want to join. It’ll be fun, Doug! Trust me…..
When I had my SP party at my home a couple of years ago, one gal came with a very nice dish of food. Can’t remember what the food was, but, the dish she brought was not cheap! She asked me if I was doing Scientology. When I replied, “No,” she left and NEVER came back to get her dish.
There was a woman who came with her two daughters (gorgeous!). She called me a few days after the party and asked me if I was still doing Scientology. When I replied, “No,” she said, “thank you for telling me that.” After which, she and her family removed themselves as FB friends.
I sent a month’s worth of Kool-Aid to both families. I sure hope they got it…..
The potential for financial and other forms of abuse by psychiatrists etc exists, although 90+% of mental health professionals don’t take advantage of patients. I would say if something doesn’t seem right and in particular if he pressures you to see him more than you want to then go to someone else. It’s your money, and you have the right to fire your therapist at any time with or without cause.
Disgustingly arrogant. Lets start with the generalities: “psychiatrists are bad, doing horrendous things”.
Which ones? What exactly are they doing? When was it done? – This is a FLUNK for failure to apply the sacred scriptures of Data Series and Generalities Won’t Do HCO B.
Now, lets assume some psychs are doing something that is not quite right.
Why then, if ‘scientology’ is the religion that has all the answers to help another does not put aside the ‘only ones’ arrogant viewpoint and uses the famous tech to help others?
Oh no, no way…It goes against what LRH said: ‘they can not be helped as are our enemies”. Scientology has been at war almost since its inception in an attempt to hide its own crimes, so the complaint against psychs, or anyone else, is arrogant and absurd.
Good points, Silvia. And Mike, “The reason scientology is not being crushed by psychiatry and Big Sumo Pharma is that they don’t perceive it as any sort of threat. As much as scientology wants to believe they are “impinging”, the truth is they are invisible.” This is sadly so very true.
“It goes against what LRH said: ‘they can not be helped as are our enemies.”
You got that right, Silvia! He did perceive them as enemies. They were and still are his and scientology’s number one arch enemy. And not only because of ‘not applying the Data Series,’ but for lrh’s major crime: plagiarism – the theft of others’ intellectual ideas. He was a straight up, out and out FRAUD; and scientology is still perpetuating his theft and lie. Shrinks and others came up with the “answer/reason for mental illness” long before blubbard was a twinkle. He literally robbed their “knowledge,” which was vetted to be fully documented experiences, and then had the colossal gall to call it “his” “own” “tech?!” That was his FIRST biggest crime and lie! It makes sense that he had to get rid of the psychiatrists – his ego and financial greed couldn’t survive or bear up the TRUTH coming out.
Though it took a little longer to get folks’ deeply traumatic experiences exposed and brought to the surface of conscientiousness—in numerous couch sessions—psychiatrists did and still do make major break-throughs. lrblubbard just speeded things up a little bit; and that’s all he did! … And even his “auditing” rendition sometimes didn’t work, either; i.e., Lisa McPherson and other deaths. And because of OT III, et al, look at all the suicides and complete mental breakdowns people were/are still having by doing it blubbard’s way, compounded by his mind implants. Our “protective” minds are our greatest gift from God. When the mind determines the subject is mature enough to handle a terrible memory, it will permit the memory to come through. When a vicious, horrendous memory is being held back, there’s a reason for it – the person isn’t ready to deal with it. Perhaps, he or she would never be able to handle the truth of a devastating past incident.
Psychiatrists, priest, preachers, monks, rabbis—you name it—they all knew this deep mental stuff for decades, sometimes centuries, ever since mankind started using its brains. Through topics like speech, memory, philosophy, religion, reincarnation, meditation, confessions, deep prayer, and on and on and on, wise men and women were already helping people with their problems based on their past.
All these other regular WOGS figured out the cause of mental illness first, before blubbard did; and for comparison sake, one of them was Dr. Freud, who put his findings on the record in medical and psychiatric journals and books. Just look at his reputation and education, “Sigmund Freud was the FATHER of psychoanalysis and one of the 20th century’s most influential thinkers.” He graduated from the University of Vienna and worked at the Vienna General Hospital.
What REAL education did the liar L. RON HUBBARD have to back him up???
Freud said that most mental illnesses and psychosomatic issues were caused due to prior hurt and tragedy in a person’s past. And long before blubbard, Freud used hypnosis to determine that fact. People can’t say LRH didn’t steal his own fabricated fame from Freud’s smarts and resume.
Anyone else noticed “Farsec” is an anagram of “ser fac”? LRH must have been suffering from inventing-bullshit-fatigue when he concocted that one.
No, it’s an indication of what it is, and also what he was trying to do. From what I understand, a ser fac is someone who you blame for your problems, when the problem is YOU.
The Psychs are his personal ser fac. He blames them for his problems, the way a medieval peasant might blame “demons” or “witches” for his bad crops. Never mind, he never went out to hoe and weed after every rain, or he’d allowed tares ( which is a sterile barley lookalike which propagates through runners) to invade his wheat field. No, it was Satan who sowed those tares, and witches who stamped on all the seedlings, It was the Psychs who caused the engines on the Apollo to fail, not an untrained crew. It was the Psychs that got all the fresh meat of last week at Saint Hill stoned, or got them into Yoga.
Interesting idea!
No, a ser fac (service facsimile) is a mental image picture one uses to make oneself right and another or others wrong. “Those employers won’t take me on just because I don’t dress the way they do” would be an example. There are thousands of them, probably millions. It’s a justification for ones own condition, belief, actions, etc. “The psychs are out to get us”, “the film makers are out to get us”, “the SPs are out to get us”, all are serfacs used by scio. “I’m the only one who has to do everything” is a special ser fac to Miscavige. He has lots of them. 🙂
After all, according to scientology scripture, they are “whole track implanters” who originate on the planet Farsec and are intent upon enslaving mankind ..
I have never heard about such a planet .. sounds as a planet which is above objective time .. so they know before you know .. but not too much .. do not know where LRH gave the data about Farsec .. a special planet for psychs who came to earth to enslave us ..
Ever read Teegeeack .. read it .. T. G. ack ..
I think it just rhymes with Parsec (which, as anyone who watches Star Wars or Star Trek etc. knows, is a unit of measure for distances in outer space — one parsec equals roughly 3.26 light years)
Great catch, Mark!
That and Arslycus…
In order to make a complaint, wouldn’t the person complaining have to admit that they visited a psych? Good luck with that plan, Ken.
They also would have to admit they went on the INTERNET!! (Gasp)
Maybe I took it out of context, but my perception of #2’s parenthetical note had me literally laughing out loud.
– State’s won’t lift a finger until they receive a complaint!
Um, yah. That’s how it works across the whole field of actions for alleged misconduct. One must make a complaint before the responsible agency takes action. I took that note to be an emphatic (w/the exclamation point) OMG – they actually have to wait for a complaint before they do something because it’s so obvious to us they are evil and should already be shut down because we said so.
I guess all those OT postulates at the evil psychs just aren’t working and they must slum it by making complaints, but hey – we’re getting it done (not so much). Look at the great plan (not so much).
Really, there is so much that is laughable about this entire e-mail, but what stood out in addition to #2 is the fact that the email itself could possibly show a biased intent that may very well assist a psych who has had a baseless or questionable complaint made against them – if a nexus can be shown/proven. A step by step plan to try and get a whole profession taken down…not aimed at unethical persons in a field of practice, but ALL of them.
I know CoSers believe that all psychs are evil, thus it is perfectly justifiable to them to attack the whole professional field, but can you really be this blind to think…? Wait, I need to stop. The answer is in the email itself.
SMH.
I used to work with Kramer. Granted, his statements are a little silly, but he is at least doing something when so many other scientologists are not. As far as I remember, he targeted only those that allegedly committed offences against their patients – lots of perverts out there. And I feel proud to this day about being a part of STOPPING the proposed ‘teen screen’ program that a greedy psych professor from USF wanted to implement in Pinellas County some years back. Ken’s a good guy, but like so many, he’s unfortunately ‘hypnotized’ and believes himself to be one of the “elite” that will save the planet, whomever they me be. 😉
Sylvia — there is no doubt there are abusive psychs and that drugs as a solution for all ills is a dangerous and destructive trend in society. That was not my point. And eradicating real abuses is not a bad thing, they exist in every part of society.
Mike. Thanks a lot for brining this up. I have thought about this topic a million times at least, and always come to the conclusion that if people just left Psychiatrists alone they would not bother anyone as they are not able to bother anyone anyway if that is the true state they are in. Not all Psychiatrists are SP’s some are just very PTS. Very! 🙂 I always ask “Why do the Scientologists think that the Psychiatrists are out to get them?”. Are the Psychiatrists out to get anybody else that did not run after them in some way first? Naturally if a person runs after someone they are going to get a response. And I guess what the church believes it is “addressing” here with this program is the thing. It is delusional in my opinion and I am not a Psychiatrist or Psychologist either! Thanks Mike. 🙂
The psyches declared Ron looney. That is why they became an enemy.
Paulette Cooper judged Ron. That is why she became the enemy.
Jesus taught love for God and love for humanity. That is why Jesus became the enemy. True love of humanity was not Ron at all. It threatened him because scientoligists are always looking for enemie’s to blame.
Love and forgiveness is an anti Scientology view. It would be considered reasonable.
The FDA, AMA and the taxman wanted to question Ron. They became the enemy.
The big elephant in the room is:
Farsec………. how can any sane Scientologist or Ron devotee ever justify in their minds the madness and utter delusional mindset who claims that psyches are from the planet Farsec.
To still give Ron any “altitude” after knowing this along with the fact he wanted to electrocute himself is:
Evidence of a hypnotic spell.
And the need for therapy
Hi Brian, Thank you. A huge hug and love to you and yours. After your posts I feel energy I did not think I had at times. Love, Ann.
Yeeaay for energy Ann!! We all are energetic creatures with wavelength. Communing with each other is really just native state. We are all in a sort of texting mind club.
It’s a very interesting process.
All the best to you and yours Ann 🙂
Brian
Yes Brian – I brought this up because because a blogger on another blog suggested that Tony Ortega’s blog sometimes appeared as a cult criticizing a cult. I was once a scilon and joke about scilons, but things can get extreme. Best, Richard
Brian – re: Farsec. . .how can any sane Scientologist . . .” If they had any sanity they would take it as an allegory or something. Think Paul Haggis. It happens. Rational thinking is not part of cultism. Are you a never-in?
I was in for 11 years, left un 82. Still dumping some of my vestigial Ron imprints.
Ron never ever alluded to any of his writings being an allegory. If you would have communicated that back in the day you would have been put in the squirrel bin.
It is my opinion that people who claim the allegory argument are simply ashamed to admit to themselves that this is how Ron really thought. And by association, how we thought.
Nowhere in writing does it say any of this fantasy mind fuck is not literal.
Is L Ron Hubbard wishing to die and be rid of BTs an allegory?
Wishing to die by electrocution? The very method he warred against with Psychiatry.
One word describes this: INSANE
P.S. Brian – I think I misunderstood you. At any rate I agree that Xenu, BTs etc. is insane. I left scn around 1980 soon after attaining so called dianetic clear and have no idea how I would have reacted to the bullshit when I got to it. OK?
A most valid point of view.
Hi Sylvia 🙂
So interesting that you mention “teen screen” since my niece just participated in it here in Northern CA, and they very correctly detected/identified her issues and immediately facilitated help (all had gone under the radar at her FL school) so while there may be issues or abuses, for us it was extremely helpful. <3
In about 1995, at an annual IAS event in Copenhagen, Miscavige’s made his big plan to dismantle psychiatry by the year 2000 a centerpiece of the evening….need I say more?
This is the real trap of Scientology. This fake war with Psychiatry. The idea that ALL Psychiatrists, Psychologists, therapists, are part of some vast, intergalactic conspiracy that dates back quadrillions of years and that somehow they are on the other side of a war where the prize is your very soul and control of your eternity.
Even after I left, this still echoed in my mind. So I did not seek help. Not for the night terrors that I have, not for the uncontrollable rage that I feel, not for the depression that sweeps over me like a tidal wave, none of it. I pushed through. I “made it go right”. I just let going.
I have been put now for 14 years. Finally I went and saw a therapist. Just being in his office gave me a panic attack. Just answering the basic intake questions broke me down. In that one interview he saw what all of Scientology had done to me. I thought, before going in maybe I had PTSD, but of course I was being dramatic.
After asking me just the formality questions he told me with out a doubt I had PTSD. I was referred to a female counselor so that I could be more comfortable. In my first session with her just barely touching on what had happened in my life life a nutshell I felt better than I had in decades.
I encourage all of us who have been through this hell to seek help. It actually does help. And no one tried to drug me, give me ECT or lobotomize me there. Not even a hint of that. Nothing we have been told about that profession is truth. There are so many good people out there that actually give a shit.
Nora — every religion has to have a force of evil to combat. The devil. Lucifer. It’s part of the good vs evil battle that is integral to religious belief (which underpins religious practice).
Scientology doesnt believe in God per se, so there is no devil or Lucifer to overcome.
Thus, the evil psychs were invented as the purveyors of all things dark and wicked. And all psychs are evil. And they are all out to destroy mankind and steal the souls of men.
It’s the same story that has been sold to believers since the beginning of time.
Mike, I know that aspect of it. But it is that aspect of it that keeps people trapped in it even when they leave and they no longer believe.
If they refuse to seek help because psychs are “evil” then Scientology is still winning. Scientology is still in charge of their lives.
In order to be 100% free of its strangle hold you have to let it all go, the lingo, the irrational view of the world and universe and the asinine idea that ALL other therapies are invalid and ALL other therapists are seeking to harm you.
With you there Nora.
I believe that the computation that Scientology is above and beyond review or critique of mortal man may be more basic on the chain so to speak than the “psychos are bad” computation. Without the solid buy- in of Hubbard and his vast output that only a superman could accomplish (lets not speculate how he came to rise above it all) it would be implausible to accept.
Nora, I’m so happy you took that step! You are such a good person, I hope you continue and take the time to discover that!
Best wishes for your continued good (mental) health!
Congratulations on overcoming the fear instilled in you by Scientology.
I am a psychotherapist. Yesterday, while preparing for a Super Bowl party, I received a call from a young woman, mother of a 6 year old, who was fighting the impulse to end her life.
I spent about an hour talking to her, and about another hour arranging care to keep her safe (helping her mobilize family etc). No big pharma, no hospitalization. Dollars billed=0.
I has taken many years of education and experience to know how to manage the care of a suicidal person. Once the psych busters have me taken away, who will take these phone calls?
Ironically, Scientology would have slammed her into an “introspection rundown” guaranteeing that her condition would worsen, maybe become terminal.
Hi basketballjane, Thank you for sharing your story and your advice. I have seen both sides of The Sea Org, light & dark and I have seen years ago both sides of the whole therapy world, when I was forced to see an idiotic and dangerous shrink who thought he was the best Sci deprogrammer in Boston. I don’t think so, drug – pill happy was more like it.
I totally agree that if some one would like help with anything associated with their time with cos, there are many more paths of help branching out, than yrs ago when I blew in 78. I enjoy your posts. Love, Ann.
Think of it ===== If Psychiatry is obliterated
“How can CCHR get money to end something that
is no longer around ?” David Miscavige will lose
a money flow for his lavish lifestyle and gross
image PR stunts to fool people.
I watched the C of $ Super Bowl Commercial
and ate two bags of Doritos to Key Out.
Psychiatry was supposed to be finished by CCHR in 2000,
Ha, Ha, Ha, David Miscavige makes way too much money
from Psychiatry .
Preaching to the choir about the horrors of psychiatry – most scions know nothing about psychiiatry other than what the “church” has told them to think. I had no answer to friends who used to tell me that they knew some one close to them who had received a positive experience from some form of psychiatric help, they are not all about the 19th century torture that scn tries to focus on. I’m sure there are plenty of people who have been harmed by psychiatry but it would be interesting to see a comparison against those harmed by scn – despite their very small sphere of influence scn has caused a great deal of trouble for a lot of people.
I had the same thing and I couldn’t see, I so blindly bought the bs the cherch dished out about psychiatry. Now that I’ve taken off the dark glasses and can see further than my nose, I hear of more and more people benefitting.
As has been said on this particular subject, just because one engineer lets a bridge fall down (yes, it’s happened and people have been killed and injured) doesn’t mean you want to blast every other engineer on Earth to smithereens.
Someone should send Ken a copy of the letter LRH wrote to the VA after the war asking for free psych treatment and complaining that he could not afford his meds.
Mike, certainly there is an agenda here. First Marty Rathbun now it’s you following, wanting to take down Scientology as a whole. Otherwise you guys would stick to the Indy movement and would have promoted it.
But the agenda probably was to make friends with Indies and ex’es and finally turn them into enemies and adversaries. No other explanation is logical to the U turn you guys made a while ago.
Now, they want to take down Psychiatry, you guys want to take down Scientology as a whole and the story goes on.
The truth is that Misavige and Co. are doing a fine job about it, compounded by your efforts, too. Comparing Scientology to Psychiatry… Now, that’s a good one.
But guess what… Scientology is NOT the groups or the masses… or even the blogs with their opinions. Scientology is a precise thing and it’s for those who can appreciate it and take advantage of it, this lifetime and the life times to come.
So, no matter how much you want to belittle the subject by associating it with a travesty church or comparing it with psychiatry, the subject is being very well accepted by the common people.
Oh, and one other thing. Big Pharma or the Psychs don’t need to worry about it because they have already gotten their henchmen within and without Scientology and have succeeded in forming (for years now) and presenting their own brand of it as Scientology. This has been so for many years now. Proof of it is that back in the late 90’s I was hurling for standard Tech as Translations director and the application of… HCOBs to a “deaf” Mgmt. Was it really deaf or was/is there an agenda (especially when some of them keep further alter-ising the Tech presenting, for example, the Mind as the Brain in a recent popular documentary)?
Mike, this planet has a slim chance and you are surely making a great effort to keep it going the way it is. Congrats! I am just shocked by the way people get convinced so easily and change their viewpoints in such a fast manner. But I guess it’s typical of the race here on this planet to be so suggestible to listen and condone people who are leading them to the other bitter end: that of complete oblivion. They easily forget and have no certainty. Look at ex-high executives of Scientology Mgmt how hostile they are now to the whole movement. How much certainty did they have on the subject to end up like this so fast? None.
And the people can see this outpoint but just follow and happy they are to do so. Psychiatrists don’t even know or haven’t even made the grade to introduce the concept of a Thetan on this planet. On the contrary most of them are very low profile on the subject. Scientology isn’t because we do know who is the Player here. But obviously Players who know the rules and follow them are not wanted, just pawns who ignore the rules and follow orders from above. Welcome all to the New World Order. The circus of the Enslavers on a roll!
Theo, the more you say the clearer it is that the real problem is scientology fundamentalism. It manifests itself inside and outside the church of scientology. You need to learn to think for yourself and touch bases with reality instead of regurgitating the “tech” as if the only problem is that people have no duplicated it properly or are deliberately trying to twist it. Like the fundamentalist christians who hold up signs “God Hats Fags” — they are absolutely convinced their beliefs are right and that everyone who doesnt see it their way are sinners bound for eternal damnation. And to everyone else in the world they are proof that this handful of crackpots are completely nuts. But no matter how many times others try to get them to touch bases with reality, in their minds, this is just further proof of how right they are that they are truly the only ones who understand how to save the world from itself.
Sorry to be making a point out of your comment. I know it is sincere and you are not doing this as a prank. The saddest thing is that anything that doesn’t match your existing view is automatically rejected by you as some sort of conspiracy of the devil (or psychs, or Big Pharma or New World Order or whatever the demon is that is held up as the evil that must be vanquished as part of the holy crusade).
Mike,
Your posts have always echoed reform of CofS and not destruction of it. I get it. Doubt they will ever reform but I never had the sense that you were at war or that I switched blindly to another situation where I didn’t think for myself. This blog taught me how to think for myself again. Thank you.
Mike, this answer of yours is full of Evals and Invals and Opinions instead of basing it on some logic or even some reasoning.
So, I am taking up each one of them (god, your answer is full of them like an infection) and answering each one separately because they are covert enemy lines… I am also good at PR Mike, I did 6 TV shows here in Greece and had them nailed on the subject because it is a decent subject and it’s us making a mess out of it. And if we make a mess out of it, imagine what will happen to the subject in the hands of unawares or even evil people who do not want to see this subject to flourish and prosper on planet Earth. This is now a taboo…. Scientology… It has to be made a taboo. There are those who want to make it that because they cannot fight it otherwise. That’s the strategy for 40 or more years now.
So, your nice remarks, one by one:
1) Fundamentalist: Why does a person who still defends a subject (Standard Tech) though (unjustly) declared for it is called a Fundamentalist?
2) “You need to learn to think for yourself”: This is now a cliche answer in trying to make someone look a bit naive and foolish. Who do you think I am thinking for? Miscavige? Or the church or what? I am declared by them. Scientology is a tool and I have not BECOME the Tool…. I am using a tool…. Is that bad or does it mean I cannot think for myself because I am using it as a tool? And if I disagree with you putting out such articles or just not seeing how bad it is to portray the Mind as the Brain in that documentary (by the way, honestly Mike, by now you should have asked them to edit that part and correct it, you owe it to Mankind, you don’t want to be part of such an alteration of the Tech), does that mean that I cannot think for myself?
3) “Touch basis with reality”, I am real, I am here, out here in this world for 16 years now and have my own job my own family despite that gross FO by ED Int to curtail all of the Sea Org members Second Dynamic and running those in an environment and surroundings that are constantly d-e-t-e-r-i-o-r-a-t-i-n-g despite the “earnest” efforts of psychs as you are saying who are increasing of course as drugs and other illnesses do.
4) Then you go on with the Christian association and the sinners. If I wanted to make people very guilty about overt acts I would have written in another way. But since that’s not my style I wonder how dare you confuse me with Christian preachers who just see sinners all around them. Scientology has another approach to this, it can be called Hatting, it can be called Communication and exchange of ideas and, ok, why not, some argument and it can be called Pointing out something after Observing it. Sinners and Christian preachers I don’t know where this comes from. I bet you have been indoctrinated in this in the Miscavology Church. I was in the basement of ASHO getting together 150 volunteers to get the CF done, applying the 21 Department Or Board per Org Board and Livingness (while Rich Cohen was sending down his ignorant communicator to tell me applying the Org Board was squirrel…!!!) so I guess that basement kinda protected me from exposure to such black PR tech. I am immune to that. As you say, I am sincere and… serious about it. The world is going down (now you can have my rant on all this) and we are fucking each other up and mainly fucking up a subject that helped most of us and it could help many more. OK, it went astray but is it because of the subject or because of some lunatic, uneducated, arrogant guy who took charge and thinks he could run the show alone, without paying any respect to the guidelines laid out by the Founder? And whenever those guidelines are indeed followed the application is so void of imagination and humanity that one wonders why the guidelines are just followed when punishment is involved and not in other cases? Control, control, control. That’s more like the Christian church and some other guys who are trying to control the whole populace of the planet and not me.
5) On the conspiracy thing…. I don’t even have to say much on this. Just look at the candidates of the United States of America and tell me if this is NOT a conspiracy.
Sorry Mike, I think that instead of discussing the subject of how superior the tech of Scientology (not the church) is, compared to psychiatry you are trying again to deviate from the subject matter by sticking on me once again like Marty was doing (after a point) all those labels. That’s really psychiatry in the making. I am here to defend a point. That there is no comparison between Standard Tech and that of Psychiatry. That yes, there are good psychiatrists but overall the subject has gone astray. That there is a way to HAT Mankind and not hit it, giving it a better understanding of what is going on. And that Scientology should have an equal chance which some have made sure it doesn’t.
And as before I wasn’t understood (when talking about those damn Translations Bulletins) once again I am not being listened to because again we are on different agendas. Mine is to protect a subject to which I owe much. And keep it by the book but not in an unimaginative way and a detrimental way but in a creative and therapeutic way as it was meant to be. And with that right I am speaking out. Your’s? I don’t know.
Posting this because I always like to let people have the opportunity to have their say. But I am not going to get into a lengthy debate with you Theo. I know from experience it is pointless. Like debating the principles of tolerance and everyone having equal rights with the people holding the signs “God Hates Fags.”
It’s ok Mike…. You are right. I am not going to change my viewpoint but that does not mean we cannot talk or share viewpoints which are different.
I know you are a galant person and consider me as one too. We don’t debate… we just communicate and there is a great difference between the two.
Theo – debating is not a bad term. It is the art of presenting a position so as to persuade others to think about things from your perspective. I spent nearly 50 years looking at the world through “standard tech” glasses. I took them off. Suddenly the world seems brighter and not distorted by the glasses. When I was wearing them I was sure I needed them to protect me and that if others didnt see things the sam way I did it was because they had not had the “benefit” of the glasses. THing is, those glasses were not giving a clear view as much as I believed at the time that they were eve better than a clear view, they allowed me to see things that were invisible to others.
Hi Mike, Wanted to say your post concerning what occurred when your ” glasses ” were no longer needed, really struck a chord with me. When in SO, I truly felt I could ” see ” all the world visible and invisible perfectly because of the Tech. Yet my view was distorted also. I want all in, to be-able to finally see what dm is doing, I want those I meet on my journey who are searching after leaving cos, to realize there really are strong good and kind spirits in this world, who want and wish to help,if asked. Love,Ann.
Mike, I am happy the world seems brighter to you and not distorted by the glasses. I am glad you took them off.
But honestly I think you did another version of Scientology. I honestly believe that. And let me tell you that you being next to Miscavige I have a point of saying that. You should have once visited my humble ASHO basement. Over there you do get the gist of the PDCs or the Org board and Livingness, where, left on my own devices (with no suppression or interpretations from seniors), I could pull my thing off and do it. And you can say: “pffff, so what? So many out here are doing much more important things”. And you can be right but we were working with a purpose that is not acceptable in this society: to wear clean shirts. You probably remember that phrase from the org board and livingness. And that was/is tough on this planet. And let me tell you that out here for many years now I do see the need to work with people and create a better world but some common language is needed which is going to encompass phenomena that have been undefined or even overlooked for years. Otherwise, there are going to be holes in this whole thing and no result.
I am totally against any abuses of the church. I am totally against what Miscavige has been doing and I don’t need to become mean anymore as there is so much opportunity out here. And on this you are right: those glasses should be gotten off. If it was 50 years for you, I understand you lived in a very regimented (I know how the Sea Org operated, was there for 9 years) environment. I saw kids being neglected and left dirty and stuff, with no toys. I had toys when I was young. I felt sad about them. They were still kids. Ok, thetans in s young body but they were also kids. So, maybe I know where you are coming from. It was a tough and austere environment with little affinity some times, little understanding or even no understanding. I remember some officer saying “All those down-stats….” Yes, there is the arrogance. I am not talking about those crappy people, those arrogant execs. Forget them… they were crappy. I took what I took, even out of them. They were working to keep the place going so I could get the sniff out of it. And I did. As soon as I saw where this was leading I left. I am out here before you. So, I know what’s in there and what’s out here.
But I say, you did another version of Scientology, buddy. Like many of the up-lines guys did. And probably (there’s little doubt about that) they had a lot of pressure to a degree that now that they got free of that suppressive environment they do see how wrong all that was. And it was. Why should stats be up every Thursday? Why work on somebody else’s determinism? What crap is this? Scientology has turned upside down. Does this mean that it was bad in the first place or that those steering it didn’t know how to keep it going? And it turned upside down as it did. That’s to be answered yet and you guys have not convinced me nor have the psychiatrists.
Theo you complain about my “eval” as you roll on endlessly. I spent the first 30 years without David Miscavige at all. In fact, I was with L. Ron Hubbard. In person. My “other version” of scientology that you are convinced I only know is your invention.
Theo…”Evals, Invals and Opinions” eh… well, show me a Clear, show me a super-being or an OT doing something extraordinary, just one Theo.
Show me the evidence, Theo. You can’t. You are a duped schmuck, and it that would be alright if Scientology was not hurting people. But they do, and the tech does not work as promised. So it is a scam.
You are so sure about everything, so, why bother? You are obviously right in whatever you say.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. So in addition to “homophobe”, we can put “hypocrite” on your CV.
What’s wrong, Theo? Did Millstone Two put you in a Condition and this whole thread is you trying to work yourself out of Lower Conditions? It’s not working. You’re not dealing an effective blow to an enemy (and make no mistake that the Kool-Aid Drinkers at Millstone Two consider Mike an enemy). You’re not convincing anyone of anything. It’s more like you’re trying to convince yourself. And that’s not working either. You’re failing, Theo. You said yourself that the Vaunted Study Tech didn’t work on your own son. The Tech doesn’t work. Admit that to yourself and you’ll be happy.
By the way, your fifteen-year-old case of butthurt about the Translations Division isn’t winning you any fans either. It makes you look like a petulant seven-year-old. Then again, I’m a 1.1 on psych drugs, so anything I say can be disregarded.
Εspiando, it’s a new day here in Greece. I am not gonna go into your darkness…. Walk out and see the sun rising whenever you are. I wish you a bright future.
My only question is based on your claim LRH’s tech is somehow superior to anything else and will save mankind. Also your statement how psychiatry hasn’t dealt with the theta or doesn’t separate mind from brain. How can you prove any of this to be true. How can you prove the tech is our best hope? That a theta even exits or that the brain and mind are different. LRH was not a scientist or a doctor and a proven liar. So in the end it all comes down to faith. People will have faith in different things and we don’t have to agree. Personally I am Catholic and have faith in the Holy Trinity. I don’t expect others to agree and believe what I do. Personally I wish you the best and have a good day.
“We are all capable of becoming fundamentalists because we get addicted to other people’s wrongness” — Pema Chodron
(Tibetan Buddhist Nun) – (in her late 70’s – a “rock star” in the buddhist world – was married twice, is an American and a grandmother)
It’s not religion PER SE that makes us IMHO fundamentalists – it’s that “the other” (not IN the tribe) is wrong
Ask me how I know? — because I fight my own fundamentalist URGES every day … every day. (i.e. — others are “just so wrong”
Love,
Windhorse
I hear you windhorse. Amen, Sister.
Your level of understanding others impress me the most , Mike. 🙂
I tip my hat to you.
Quick question Theo. You state “…this planet has a slim chance…” Why do you feel this is true?
And a personal note: Everyone’s departure from the church is slightly different. However, they do share some common attributes. Most began their exit by questioning the authority of the church. Then after getting kicked out, they continue their questioning, not only of management, but of Scn itself. Eventually this road leads to Hubbard himself. These individuals have freed themselves of dogma and fixed viewpoints, this enables them to pursue the truth – wherever it may lead, no matter how unpopular.
I have no problem with that. That those people have come to wholly disagree with the subject. I am afraid though that there are more things to this than the eye can meet. That there are those who didn’t really do Scientology. Finally this is what I am getting. They were either Statpush-ed or they somehow didn’t get some points. On the other hand some make sure that they will never have a chance to get it.
On the world having a slim chance, look at what is happening. Do you feel safe? I don’t. I am sorry to say. This is not the world I envisioned for my children. Things are getting worse and worse day by day and I don’t see any LEADERS to be able to handle it. If you ask me the next leader should be a spiritual leader. It’s outrageous to see world leaders to fight all the time over politics and each one’s agendas. Instead of getting together in order to handle grave situations they keep on fighting like yesterday.
The world is in turmoil. Wars have not ceased. Weapons keep being upgraded and keep being sold. Anyone can have weapons. No matter how crazy he or she is. All this automaticity increases and on the other hand there is nothing there to stop it. If you have gotten some auditing you probably know that cognitions and As-isness are the most powerful things. Only those can stop this automaticity and madness.
One thing is for certain, Scn attracts a wide variety of people who experience many things in Scn, both good and bad. I was deeply involved for 30 years, on staff, OTIII. Did I get something out of it? You betcha. There is some merit to the lower grade chart. Clear and OT states are a pipe dream, in my opinion.
Is Scn “the answer” to mankind’s woes? Maybe in some areas. But this is not how Scn (and Hubbard) operates. They have ALL the solutions to man’s problems – whether you like it or not. It’s an All or Nothing proposition.
Honestly Theo, can you say you would want Scn or the Sea Org running our governments? I’ve working in over 20 different organizations from around the world and by far, the absolute WORST, most fucked up organization that I ever had anything to do with was a Scn org.
Consider this, of all the organizations I’ve ever been involved with, the church was the only one that threatened to destroy my marriage and break-up my family; despite years of loyal service and a couple hundred thousand dollars.
Sanity? Solutions? I think not.
Before you point the finger at DM to defend Scn, much of what I experienced could be supported by policy.
There is no point in arguing. I have seen so many stupid applications of policy. And then I have seen a lack of smart application of policy, too. I wouldn’t want the current Mgmt to run our governments. But I would want some policy to go in. Some sane policy. Anyway, it’s a big subject. Glad you had some wins… I do, too. And I am not a fundamentalist. I just think things are being statpushed…. Really, no kidding. You got a great name there. Very apropos for this planet and the church indeed.
Theo,
” But I would want some policy to go in. Some sane policy.”
Can you give us an example of what you consider is ‘sane policy’?
Have your read any policies? Like the Data Series. There is policy on how you investigate an area. That’s just logic, using logic. That’s good, teaches people to be able to think logically.
The outnesses that won’t resolve are usually big ones and are omissions. And not being there they aren’t seen as there’s nothing to see. (From Data Series 53, OUTNESSES).
Just as an example, how many outnesses aren’ there in the world? War! What an outness! It won’t resolve. There are big omissions. The first one is just start checking those factories and how the line of military weapons goes and to who they are sold. Who does this. Has the UN ever done such a thorough research and are you aware of it? No one dares talk about weapons and to who they are being sold. All this info is missing. Who is involved in the Syrian war. And how come all these weapons end up in the hands of terrorists? Who gives them the weapons? On another planet such persons would have been hung!!!
I could go on. The state is set up as a mafioso syndicate and no one can intervene. Outness!
Theo, Theo, you missed the point – THIS WAS LRH POLICY!!! LRH SAYS TO DESTORY THEM UTTERLY.
Words of a sane man?
Where is your evidence that the world is worse and getting worser? In the words of that great philosopher, Billy Joel, “we didn’t start the fire, it was always burning since the worlds been turning.” There is zero evidence that the world is ‘worse’ than it was for example during the crusades, the Black Plague, the witch burnings of Europe, the Spanish Inquisition, WW1 or 2, Vietnam, the 1919 influenza epidemic etc
Theo, it is clear to me from your statement that are are a true believer in Scientology and L Ron Hubbard. That saddens me. You have always come across as a very intelligent and nice person. I wish for you to actually LOOK. LOOK at what Scientology has done for anyone inside or outside of it. LOOK at LRH. Forget about David Miscavige and the rest. The Tech does not work. LRH was a liar and a con man. Those are the sad truths. Scientology is not a path out of anything, it leads only further and further into insanity and darkness. I can say this with honesty and from a place of love. It took me over a decade to shake off the mind control and hypnotism of Scientology. I am proof that it can be done and you can live a happy and normal life. Yelling at Mike and Marty is silly. When they both started their blogs they still believed in many aspects of the tech and Scientology. I was nearly booted off both blogs for being too blunt in my opinions about it. But they both did the research and found out the truth. And once you look behind the curtain and find out there is no great and powerful wizard of Oz then the trick is over. It can never again have power over you. Do the research. Find out for yourself.
Basketballjane,
Thank you for your answer and kind advice. I don’t know why some people see others the way they want to see them. It’s ok for me to have someone disagree. We are different. We can disagree. We are obviously both right as probably our experiences and understandings vary vastly. One does Scientology and goes away. Another does Scientology and sticks to it. Different people, different viewpoints. Still we can talk.
My point was that Scientology has to have an equal chance on this planet. Like psychiatry does. And if you ask me there is no comparison between the two.
But we don’t have to be rude or put labels on each other. And I can really understand all the atrocities of Miscavige done against honest people. I hope this will be corrected.
Theo, a sincere question: have you ever done the full research into LRH, where he got his data from, his actual past i.e. military record (the real one from the military not the one the church prints out)? Have you looked into the results Scientology has had in the world? Like ANY thing that it has had an actual effect on? These are the things that I am talking about. You have to really look. You have to do the time and research it. I have spent a few years discovering all this. WELL before Going Clear the book or movie came out. And those are both very good references. I urge everyone who has been touched in ANY way by Scientology to really look into it and THEN make the decision for themselves. NOT before. You have to fully see it before making any decision.
what do you think I am doing all these years? Why do you bother changing me? I don’t bother changing you. I said: we can be different. No problem. And accept that difference. There is always an opportunity to be different and see things differently. And that’s what is fascinating in this life. That nobody is the same. Amazing, isn’t it?
I am not asking you to become me. That would be impossible. But you didn’t answer my question. Have you actually looked up L Rons actual military record? You can. It’s all online from the government. Have you researched all these quotes hat you love from Ron? Google them. They aren’t from him. He stole from thousands and thousands of philosophers. Have you hear of Science Of Mind by Earnest Holmes. Another American philosopher predation LRH in th discovery of engrams and reactive mind theory. He stole almost his whole “science” from that and the “New Thought” movement of the late 1800s. Take a look.
If what you got out of Scientology is if Hubbard’s military record is true or not, I will have to send you to Qual to find your MUs, my dear.
Theo please stop responding, it is embarrassing on the third flow.
Here’s the thing, Jane. You sound like the rabid ex-mormon who would say something like this to me: Todd, I can’t believe that you still believe that a treasure seeker was led by an angel up a hillside to a bunch of golden tablets and that’s where the Book Of Mormon came from. You’re really stupid for believing that. It’s all bunk. Jane, just like I know that Mormonism is true from personal experience so I can say the same thing about Diabetics and Scientology. LRH may have had his faults just like Joseph Smith, he did give us a technology that really works.
Firstly Alcoboy, whomever you are, take it down about 3000 notches. You don’t know me. You don’t know my life. You have zero idea what I went through at the hands of Scientology, the Sea Org and the RPF. Comparing Scientology to Mormonism is kinda hilarious though since they both stem from an alien space opera narrative. Both are invalid. Both are false. Both have been PROVEN false from evidence. Like SCIENCE. Both were started by power hungry, racist, misogynist, paranoid, WHITE men. Sorry but I am over all of that.
All that tells me is that you know nothing about Mormonism or for that fact Scientology but are simply lashing out at anything you find ridiculous.
Alcoboy are you denying the Mormanism belief that in the afterlife you get your very own planet? And have you never researched Scientologys own origin story? Cmon man these two religions are separated at broth in sooooo many ways, except Mornans believe in the blue eyed blonde haired Jesus and LRon lets you believe in NOTHING except source, i.e. HIM. Maybe you need to do some more research.
Well I can tell wherebyou did your research. It was a movie called ‘The God Makers’.
Alcoboy,
Have you been hangin out with the OSA goons? It’s starting to smell like it but I suppose you deserve the benefit of the doubt for awhile longer.
You go girl. Your assessment of scientology while subject is consistent with the absence of evidence that it effects any extraordinary change on people individually or collectively. Your assessment of Mormonism is also consistent with common sense. When you examine their cosmology as I have you wonder how anybody who can do simple arithmetic could unquestioningly accept such outlandish doctrines.
Me. And, yes, I have done the math.
Outlandish doctrines? Oh, you mean stuff like my belief that a Jewish man who was nailed to a large piece of wood two thousand years ago absolves me of sin?
Yes. Yes, it is outlandish. It’s as outlandish as anything coming from the pen of L. Fraud. I’m very happy that I don’t believe in that stuff anymore. It’s rid me of any sense of guilt whatsoever, which allows me to say things like that to you and not feel one pang whatsoever.
Outlandish doctrines such as believing God created beings who were in need of salvation when he could just as easily have created them already saved and whole.
The childish notion of Satan being God’s enemy when he has a pivotol role in God’s Plan of Salvation thus putting him squarely on God’s payroll.
The demonstrably false notion we can’t know happiness and joy until we’ve known misery. These are just a few delightful absurdities of the Mormon religion.
Show me the beef alcoboy. Show me the person who claims to be, do and have that which is promised in the scriptures as researched and explained by the only person who figured out the riddle all those years ago. My observations have not turned up these examples of success.
Yes, I don’t deny their are true believers out there and you may be one of them. When belief systems are challenged, emotions tend to run high. The way out is the way through ……… it is part of the tech you and Theo believe in I suspect …………carry on.
Mikes blog does a good job of challenging beliefs in the Cherch of $cientology, in El Ron, in David Miscavige and so on. Glad to see it continues to unravel.
And I don’t deny that Mike does a good job of bringing up valid issues about idle orgs and DM. That’s why I subscribe. Show you da money? Go get a bible and look up James 1:4-7.
Oh, and by the way, Newcomer, be, do, and have? How very Scientologese!
Like I said Alcoboy,
” Show me the person who claims to be, do and have ”
You might as well do it in the native tongue, it helps with the translations. How about you? Are you there yet with your Ohh Tee abilities?
Look, Newcomer, one can be,do, and have whatever one wants within what we could call reality. Like I said earlier, LRH may have committed a massive pile of overts but he did deliver a technology that has worked for me in many ways. I served a two and a half year staff contract and many of my friends were members of the SO. Did they have faults? Yes. Did I agree 100% with everything that happened in Scn? No. Otherwise I would still be on staff. I am currently leaning toward freezone Scientology and exploring that route. I must admit that I do not know you personally but I’m guessing that you were also in Scn and, like me, found it less than ideal. I would love to hear from you and, if you want to, tell me about your experiences. Sorry for being so abrupt earlier. It was just my German side coming out.
Coop spent a long time in the cult and sacrificed a great deal to get out. He’s paid his dues and is acknowledged for that. He’s also got a lot of friends here who won’t take kindly to casting aspersions on him. Hint: lurk moar and STFU.
Hi Espiando, Thank you for your post. I will not take kindly to anyone harming or f-ing with my friends here. This is Mike’s Blog and there are those who post because they want to cause trouble.They can try…but the truth will out.Love, Ann.
Why would any normal human being try to introduce the idea of a “thetan” to the world?
Do you not understand that Scientology was designed and written by a semi-lunatic science fiction writer? One who is famous for spinning lies upon lies during his time?
Time to wake up..
Why would any normal human being try to NOT introduce the idea of a “thetan” to the world? That’s the real question my friend. Do we have a freedom of speech and thought? Do we really? But you want to make a taboo out of it. Well… it will stay. After all a thetan IS a thetan. No matter what you or me wanna call him.
Yes, Steve. And Mormonism was invented by some teenage treasure seeker who made up the Book Of Mormon in order to. make a lot of money and have a bunch of wives. Not true.
The only thing that’s not true in that statement is that Joseph Smith was in his early twenties when he psychobabbled the Book of Mormon out of his ass, not a teenager.
No, Espiando, he actually had a little bit of help from two good friends called God and Oliver Cowdery. Sorry, there goes my German side again.
What does it mean this planet has a Slim Chance ?
Planet earth exists already since 4 Billions years ….
The planet may exist for so long but civilisations didn’t last that long. Actually civilisations have been destroyed on this planet many times. When nuclear fission appears on a planet we start playing hard ball…. I hope Donald Trump is not gonna be elected in the USA.
And who told you that? Oh, yeah, it was L. Fraud. Meanwhile, archaeology, paleontology, and evolutionary biology all say that L. Fraud is wrong. When the Piltdown Man was found to be as much of a fraud as him, he never edited History Of Man to reflect that, remember. It’s still in the Basics Edition of that little comedy volume. But, gee, Theo, it must be so much easier to have someone else think for you and give you answers that you’re satisfied with than to actually find answers. Thinking is hard and hurts your head. Scientology: the modern religion for the intellectually lazy.
You seem to be a chaos merchant per exact defintion.
If you would look at the real stats you would see that the world is doing better on many Terms (except the USA in some areas which seems quite on a downhilltrend, I hope Sanders will be elected president).
You won’t believe it but there are less wars than 30 Years ago, there less People dying in wars as thirty years ago, criminality is on a downhill trend in many european countries, less terroristic attacks than 30 years ago. But I know you’ll not even check the Facts. The only Problem is that ther are now millions of News outlets and they have to Report any fart on this planet.
Check the real Facts not the News.
There are billions of social personalities on this planet that care…..
Ι thought I had replied to this post to Roger From Switzerland. Anyway…. What I had said in my original answer (because this is a very provoking type of comment on behalf of a Swiss living in Europe who has no idea what is going on around him) is that Roger probably lives in a dreamland. And Switzerland may be a dreamland (they were always “neutral” and never shed any blood to support any ideas of freedom, the only thing they know how to protect is their land and the world’s money) but the rest of Europe is in a turmoil.
Roger did’t you hear about Paris? Don’t you know what is happening in the Aegean sea with all these refugees drowning? Don’t you watch any videos in major European cities about all the problems caused with muslims and christians? Aren’t those signs of major deterioration? Unless you have moved to the US in which case I am not expecting you to know or care so much. The other side of the Atlantic always provided for many excuses, overts of omission and unawareness.
So, where do you live?
Theo, I am afraid this may be the end of the road for your comments. This is nuts. Now you are railing against someone on the basis of where they live because they don’t agree with you? You think you have the right to say anything you want about anyone that doesn’t agree with you and you seem proud of how rude and bigoted you come across. Your superior attitude towards all the lesser people who inhabit the world is getting pretty tired, especially as that seems to be everyone except you, who apparently knows all. You are a condescending blowhard. Last warning.
ANd BTW, this has nothing to do with your views on scientology. I like having comments from people who support the good things about scientology. It strictly has to do with your unwavering antagonism and air of superiority over anyone and everyone that doesn’t see things your way. It’s grating and unpleasant and lacks any humility or humor.
Theo, I’m one of the “common people”, those who were never in.
Take a look at, say, the twitter response to the Super Bowl scientology ad, and tell me what that shows you of the “common people” opinion about “the subject”.
It’s over, the whole brand is finished. Even if South Park and the internet had not put the last nails in its coffin PR-wise, it’s hopelessly dated in its concepts.
We have moved well beyond it, and it will never catch up – because it can’t evolve.
Kemist, not having ever been in, puts you in the genius category! Congrats!
Kemist, I saw the ad. I saw some of the responses. What’s this got to do with Scientology? You know, I am not in anymore. I am out…. don’t get paid by them or paid to be against them either. So, I think I am more objective than Tony Ortega who obviously makes a living out of maligning everything about Scientology.
But my point is I am not in it. Just utilising the subject and I can assure you there is a lot of work to be done. Just used some word clearing on my son, who has some problems with study. I tried to clear up the words Atom, Structure (of the Atom) and Prototype to him. 3 basic concepts… He is in 9th Grade. It was difficult for him to get those concepts. Especially the words Structure and Prototype. He literally fell asleep. It was a first approach on my part for him on those concepts. I acknowledge it was tough for him. However, the words were there and he was called for to understand and learn the text. How could he if he would be without understanding of such basic concepts? That’s why you get so much of a problem out there in society. The majority of kids are asked to study things they don’t understand.
That’s just an example, a very down to earth and very realistic. That’s what Scientology is all about. The word says it: it’s knowing how to know. I hope one day we are not going to be fed just data but we will know how to know. To find the ways.
As to the ad and the Twitter that’s the SuperBowl!! Everybody wants to be part of it…. Lady Gaga singing, ads flying around…. Too much money to… impress the audience. To capture one’s attention. I am not into this. I work with the people around me. And it feels good. Though it does not come to a success many times. But I stand up and give it another shot. Cause I know one day that little seed will grow.
Hi theosismanides, As a never in, I have some sincere questions. I have gained some knowledge from voluminous reading but my conclusions are just my own. I have always been a spiritual being but didn’t need “tech” to bring me to a place of peace or “sanity”, I didn’t need a psychiatrist either but I digress. So my questions are these:
-If the tech works, shouldn’t it work as stated “100% of the time on 100% of those applying it?” If that precept of LRH is true then why didn’t it continue to work for you inside Scientology?
-If the tech works, why have so many Senior Management members been “off-loaded”, declared S/P, or put into the RPF?? I mean these folks had to not only be Scientologists in good standing to reach these positions but they also had to pass all the “Sec Checks” required before being allowed at the Int Base so why didn’t the tech work to weed them out before they got there?? Why have all of these people managed to fool their co-workers and case workers and David Miscavige for countless years before their status as Suppressive was discovered?? Was the tech not working?
-If the tech works,why would a Scientologist not be able to freely read disparaging articles about their faith? Wouldn’t their “faith” have solidified enough to allow for free thought as yours apparently has done? If it worked and an Indie like yourself was able to read something and assimilate the information, why doesn’t that same ability occur for 100% so that they need not be censored? Is the tech not working?
-If the tech works, why aren’t all these upper level OT’s (and yourself frankly) blowing the world away with their abilities?? I mean I have read about the “wins”, often times finding parking spots and the like but what about the promise of all the amazing things that OT 8’s should be able to do. Have you reached the point where Hubbard’s tech has made you somehow bigger, better and more capable? If you are why would you feel the need to argue on a blog? Is the upper level tech actually delivering what it promised to you?
-If the tech works, why have so many left Scientology, why have so many then left the Indie movement? If it works, shouldn’t it work for everyone, at all times?? It used to be that the “church” could claim a few unhappy “apostates” but just do a google search and that myth is dissolved. If it worked, wouldn’t we see it “working” in the world, honestly? You rail against the state of the world but in what way has the tech tangibly made a change?
-If the tech really and truly worked, why would there be, in my estimation at least, a high rate of divorce and family problems among Scientologist? If you are the most “able” people on the planet why can’t you make something as fundamental to happiness as a good marriage and family life happen on a consistent basis? If the tech not working or you just as human as the rest of us?
-If the tech works, why would you as an Indie not want to freely share it with the world, why would the church not freely share it with the entire world? at half a million a pop to get up the bridge, obviously it will take another few trillion years just to clear your city, why was this not factored into the “tech”????? Could it be that the tech actually doesn’t work??
I have reached the conclusion that following the unresearched OPINIONS of one single person is not wise for humanity and that is why this glorious tech hasn’t done what LRH said it would do. I wish you much health, happiness and joy in your life. You don’t actually have to solve the problems of the entire world, reaching peace in your own core is sometimes all we get, I wish that for you.
“As a Never-in” you know more about Scientology than most Indies I know!!!
Speaking on Theo’s behalf, I cannot fully answer those questions but I can say that PARTS of the tech have worked for me. I use portions of the tech in conjunction with other disciplines and I have gotten results. Maybe the indies you cite didn’t apply the tech correctly. I don’t know. The way to know is to try it for yourself, see what happens, and then draw your own conclusions.
That’s true alcoboy, someone has to use something. But before being able to use it he/she has to have some basic ARC for it… And I don’t see too many here willing to do that. It’s interesting how we can’t apply gradients in life. A little bit of certainty can go long ways. But nooooo… we want miracles… we want OTs who can move objects and such stuff. The principle of ARC alone could save the world if it was understood and applied in everyday life affairs.
I tried it, Theo. I had some pretty good wins in the beginning (some temp, some perm) but I soon realised where auditing was actually taking me – a path towards self delusion. The psychological techniques used in Scientology can indeed be highly therapeutic. Abreaction, guided imagery, visualisation, suggestion, etc., are powerful mental and spiritual tools used in various forms and practices the world over. With Hubbard, however, he takes your hand right at the start and gently guides you into his unique sci-fi narrative, with thetans, implants, invader forces, ancient civilisations, xenu, entities, ad nauseum. Ask yourself, do you really think you would have remembered any other-worldly past lives if Hub hadn’t rambled on about them from the beginning? That’s suggestion and it’s easily done. Watch anything by Derren Brown, for example (Fear & Faith is a goodie – he conditions a staunch atheist and scientist into having a profound religious experience within a very short space of time).
So I totally get why you believe there is value to be gained from Scientology as a practice. There is. But it comes at a price far greater than money, imho.
Him western, Thank you for your post. Blowing those old cobwebs away. Love, Ann.
Right on, Theo! You know, the Book of Mormon teaches that some Israelites had a hard time with Moses and the brass serpent because it was too simple. No laser light show or major miracle involved. Sounds like the point you’re making or is it?
Hi Theo,
If you want to use the technology and are not part of DM’s cult, I do not have a problem with that and more power to you.
I just thought I would share with you and others what made me open my eyes to SCN.
1. LRH wrote the disconnection policy. He also reinstated it in ’82 after it was cancelled previously. It is destroying people’s lives. I heard a story last night of a woman who had worked with LRH in the early days, committed suicide because she wouldn’t disconnect from her son. My own son has disconnected from me.
2. LRH wrote and enforced the Fair-Game policy. Again, destroying or attempting to destroy people’s lives.
3. LRH died in a motor home at 74 years old with no family around him and with his wife having gone to jail to cover for his crimes.
4. I know many people, all quite close friends/family that have worked directly with LRH as messengers on the Apollo and afterwards in the U.S. None of them ever witnessed any “OT abilities” from LRH.
5. Other than hearing the odd claims of making a parking spot appear or even wilder claims of making it rain, I have never witnessed any OT abilities from anyone and I have been exposed to SCN since my birth (my father read Dianetics in the early 50s). My time spent observing various OTs were from 11 years in the SO, on the Apollo and at INT management interfacing with LRH, Marysue, his top aides, top tech people – Mayo, Quentin Hubbard, Lean Steinberg and many more.
1 and 2 above, disconnection and fair game, should be more than enough to make one think twice about LRH’s tech.
Again, I’m not trying to change you but rather wanted to share my thoughts with those that read this blog and answering your posting was the most appropriate way to do that.
Hi clearlypissedoff, Thank you from my heart for your post. You never know how much this helps me at times. Love, Ann.
Keep going Ann! 🙂
Hi Chris Thompson, How can I not start this sun splashed morning without a big smile on my face! And before coffee too! Thank you my beautiful friend and hero.Love to you both,Ann.
“No other explanation is logical to the U turn you guys made a while ago. ”
In my humble opinion, that’s just not true. But then again, I don’t have “certainty” the way others do…
Enslave mankind?
Whole track Implanters?
Lobotomy’s? (product of Scientology is a robot who can’t think for themselves, can’t work and can’t feel peace and serenity due to the “stat driven life”)
Electric Shock? (compares to realizing that you have been completely scammed and conned by Scientology and L Ron Hubbard)
It is a cruel reality…
Thou Overt Doest Speaketh LOUDLY David Miscavige, L Ron Hubbard and Scientology!!
Yes, it is an induced mental illness. And, it is held in place with $ squeezed out of sheeple. As the sheeple wake-up and the flock thins out, these these guys will sound even more shrill and nuts, if that’s possible.
Scientology’s attack on psychiatry is looking more and more like a bunch of certifiable nut cases trying to discredit the men in white coats that are after them…. for good reason.
You know what is going to happen? Obviously someone is keeping a stat of “Number of Complaints Submitted”. And Scn’s falsification of statistics is well-documented and habitual.
“If you, and others like you, use the expertise you have to make the complaint form known…” is a nudge-nudge-wink-wink, encouraging people to file complaints. Filing a false report on a psych is not an overt. The effect they are after is “a flood of complaints”. Soon after the “licencing agency” will be wise to their tactics and refuse any further communication.
But, Kramer will have gotten what he wanted: some truly epic, astronomical number of “complaints”, stacks and stacks of paper reports, filmed by Gold and presented by DM. Truth, accuracy and reality have nothing to do with it.
True that
Similar to how Wikipedia will no longer allow scientology to edit their own pages
Right, and when Consumer Affairs receives complaints from psychsearch.net or Ken Kramer, they probably go into a special file labeled “Nuisance.”
There is a small detail he forgets though.
If I were a psychiatrist and someone filed a false complaint about me, you betcha their asses would get sued. People don’t pay for professional insurance for no reason.
“If I were a psychiatrist and someone filed a false complaint about me, you betcha their asses would get sued”
Rrrriiiiiiighht!
If you were a psychiatrist, and you had filed false claims on your son to put him in a psychiatric ward, claiming moreover that you are the doctor of your son… and if your son, tired of fleeing from country to country and getting locked up in the process, asked for the medical records 15 years later, and sued you… what would you do? Sue him back?
I know: You’d claim it’s a very difficult situation and that you’re just here for that kind of mess. It doesn’t matter at all whether you caused it or not, right? Sll facts and accusations or lack thereof are allegedly delusions? Well, you’ll not get your son back. Sorry to tell you.
Stuff happens, mate. Having the “best” of intentions doesn’t always add up to the mass of injustice you may do on its behalf, whether or not it be science-based.
Concerning science, I’d be very curious to understand how come I have a mention of being a “terrorist” on my record. Is this a psychoanalytical metaphor? Or a gruesome accusation? Until this specific fact is not explained, this “science” is based on bogus clinical observations. I’d also be curious to understand, also, how come I’m caracterised as a heroin abuser.
At one point in time, you have to recognise, as a forced patient, that this discipline is severely bogus. No amount of scientific papers could possibly bring back credibility to what is very obviously going wrong in this system.
No. Not all persons critical of psychiatry are scientologists. Some are simply tired of being locked up. Get things straight once and for all, please.
I think this email must be one of the most definitive proofs that PsychSearch and it’s founder are a bunch of quacks.
It’s taken all this time to come up with a plan?
LOLOLOL!!!
as a Psychiatric patient; after I was declared & abandoned by the ” OT* “wasband;” I can state that this is a great article that you posted!!!! No hope for their money grubbing lies.
Thanks to the therapy of the “Psychs” & my Psychologist; I know that the COS will never achieve their evil plans, since the medical practice of Psychiatry is what is truly booming. (medical drugs help too)
I left Scientology because I couldn’t afford it. Then while out I did some internet research and learned there was a lot more to the subject then I had been privy to. I learned a little about cults, hypnotism, fundamentalism, dualistic logic, conformity, etc.. I guess my point is; I see these ‘things’ existing in a lot more areas of human endeavor then just Scientology.
Hi Petlover1948 🙂
If you wouldn’t mind sharing I’d LOVE to know what happened to you since our mother went type 3 and was also abandoned by Scn after 20 years in, reaching OTVII, Staff & SO stints, and is now a full time psych patient.
What has happened to me is that I found an excellent Psychologist that specializes in families & people who have been harmed or connected to cults. She is in NYC; her work has really helped me. I have been seeing her for over 10 years. I was in COS for 27 years; but the ex husband was told to leave me. So he did. I will email you directly if that is ok. Best wishes for you and your mother to have strength and good health
Good for you, petlover! I too had a hard time going to a therapist after I left Scn. Eventually I did and it was great! While there may be abuse in the psych world, not all of them are the monsters that Scientology makes them out to be. Best wishes to you.