How pathetic is this?
They try to make it sound so wonderful — after years (likely decades) and many hundreds of thousands of dollars, the big news is the “excitement” of doing the Purif and SRD over again. And then, the “wins” of redoing the Student Hat and “the Basics”.
Apparently, the pinnacle of scientology today is the bottom of the Bridge.
The PhD’s of scientology are promoting the “wins” of going back and redoing Primary School as if they are so much more important now that they have attained the highest available levels.
It used to be that the “prerequisites” for each OT level was the OT level before…. But then after OT VIII was released in 1988 (?) and there was no OT IX and X, after a while “new” prerequisites had to be invented. First it was all orgs to SH Size. Then it was all OT VIII’s had to be Class VI’s. And all orgs had to be “ideal.” And then Basics. And then Purif and Objectives. Now Student Hat.
Pretty soon they will be required to do the Dianetics Seminar and all Life Improvement Courses.
And finally, they will be required to return to “wog” and have their “ruin” found after attending an Intro lecture.
This is the “golden age” of scientology.
What a con….
It all sounds really retarded… and they plan to be the Master race Homo Novis of the world where the Ideal orgs will be Political Centers since everyone is a clear and all the wogs below 2 have been killed. Is all just amassing of money from whales willing to be conned, I’m still waiting to see the power…. still waiting.
This is a late post but maybe there will be a response. I have a question about OT8. The subject comes up below. I “went dianetic clear” on the dianetic drug rundown around 1984 and left scio shortly thereafter.
If I were to consider the wall of fire and body thetans to be false and skipped those parts, would there be any benefit to pursuing OT8? I have no intention of doing so, I’m just curious.
The circular bridge at the top of this blog suddenly brought to mind Joni Mitchell’s song “The Circle Game” with sadness, remembering the wild hopes and promises that draw one in, the repetitiveness, the hopes never realized.
Some physicists argue that time itself has several dimensions. The “eternal now” is perhaps just one of those, and by striving to always be in “present time” Scientologists may cut themselves off from other realities and turn off critical reasoning skills that require longer term and broader considerations of of all learning rather than just the entrancing but limited present moment.
And so they go round and round and round in the circle game, OT never realized, clear never realized, and their final revolution coming unanticipated in the same time frame as for all humans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9VoLCO-d6U
And with a circular bridge, the only way to true freedom (or anywhere else) is down. Falling off of it and hoping you are alive after the fall.
Hi Mike,
I am happy I found you and your blog. I am new to Hubbards tech and I really find a lot of value in the tech itself and look forward to learning how to use my refurbished contraband emeter. 🙂
I recently had an experience where I had been working with a field auditor who came to my home to do a “life repair.” One year later we had not finished… He had an “idea” that I go to the Cincinati Org, and meet him there to complete it. I thought ok as I had never been to any Org before. I just wanted to finish my life repair. I had been reading studying Dianetics and was on my last lesson. Over the year I did and completed the extension courses of FoT and the Art course. I really resonated with the material. I am 56 years old and had been studying spirituality and philosophy, religion since I was 12 years old. At first (being in the Org) it was all very exciting, and then came the session which was all about finding the PTS in my life (my spouse). And identifying him as anti social, etc. Then came the videos, and the 3 hour hard sells. I was flattered that they offered me a position on staff. They played on my ego and my desires… I was told I had to “handle” my spouse. They actually said They would give me a few days to handle him or that I should leave him. They would come and “get me”. I flew home and then was inundated with texts to go ahead and buy my Purif. I charged it, and had long conversations with my spouse, (who has had a lot more auditing and was run up and down sec checks and who also still saw the value of the tech, but did not want to have anything to do with the church).
So, I realized what was happening, I woke up, so to speak and asked for a refund. I wrote the registrar (who let me charge the 2500.00 via my Paypal using his personal account). He said I would have to fly back down and ask and go through proper channels. I live 800 miles away! I held my ground and was told I could never receive services again. I said fine and after 3 days got my money back. The only reason I was able to do it was because Paypal had frozen his account.
Then I found the Independent Scientologists sites. Now I am a squirrel… Lol
I feel so relieved that I got away from their clutches. Really unbelievable how they operate. I was hoping everything negative I had heard about the church was not true, and as it turns out it is all true.
I was told not to read anything negative about the church and that all the negative press was from disgruntled ex members, who were all acid dropping ex hippies.
I still get glossy adverts in the mail and am shocked at the false and misleading ideas that CoS puts out there. My eyes are open and I am grateful it happened so soon.
Unbelievable.
I find this idea that one is not really clear until one redoes everything totally rediculous.
But if you look at the glossy magazines DM would have you believing Scientology is taking and healing and clearing the whole world.
Thanks for letting me comment.
Peace,
Disa
Hi Disa, I am pleased to meet you. Thank you for your post.I learn new insights when I read comments as to what happened to you. The more those who wish to post their story about this cult, the better. Always, Ann
What I wonder about is why people do this, go round and round and redo everything they’ve done and pay for it?!
“OT” 5s, 7s and 8s are going back down to the Purif, Student Hat, etc, and all saying how wonderful it all is. This is not exactly sending the right message to the newies is it. After being told that “OT” 8 is Cause Over Life, they to start all over at the bottom again. Huh?
And they don’t argue. And they pay!
Such is the mind control.
My cognition for the day is that Scientologists go round and round in part because of TRs training — being indoctrinated to be in PT (present time) and to originate everything newly in a new unit of time. Each time on this process or that is a new moment of time. In a way, there is no past in the worldview of an indoctrinated Scientologist. One’s own past is pretty much boiled down to “case” (the reactive mind and its contents). The past of all the other “dynamics” (sex and family, groups, mankind, etc.) is just what Hubbard has said it is — it is locked into “scripture.” You learn to keep yourself in the present moment (uptone, F/N, etc.) so that the past cannot impinge on you.
Many writers have described being in Scientology as being in a sort of bubble. This is true of many cults, I believe, but it seems doubly true of Scientology: (1) you are in the bubble of a reality constructed by a deranged but charismatic man, Hubbard, who stole good ideas to make his “tech” seem effective in some cases; and (2) you are in a bubble of time, the present moment, the now — which is part of why you are worked unending hours with little sleep, why you are kept active (“doingness keys out the bank” per Hubbard). In a loose sense, it is like the one-pointed consciousness of Zen taken to a shrill pitch of frenetic and unceasing activity, a Tone 40 intention to be doing all and only the work of the church, a pellucid focus on the present moment where any action in the moment can be interpreted as progress and hard work.
There is no time for reflection — “think” is a bad word and “thinkingness” is what gets you sucked into your case. So you turn off “think” and focus on “doingness” in the present moment, because doingness keys out the bank and keeps you “on purpose” with your ethics in, keeps you moving up the circular, Escherlike bridge. Your world is a double-bubble — the dogma, and the absence of any time consideration other than now. Thus you will do all the same courses again because Hubbard said things (in addition to admonitions against passing EP and overruns and such) like the number of times over the material equals certainty, and that you can redo things in a spiral with each upward loop being a higher level harmonic. In your bubble of PT and dogma, you may therefore do the same actions repeatedly, having “wins” each time and persuading yourself that the “wins” are bigger each time, while the years of your life tick away, and until both your bank account and final breath are gone.
That was incredible well articulated, dear FOTF2012 !!!
43 years ago when I went into a Church of scientology .. I said .. looking for that what I have to do here .. I have to be OT in the first place .. and second, after done everything it would be necessary to re-do everything ..
Someone said earlier in this blog .. scientology all is an arbitrary .. so when Miscavige said once “arbitraries canceled” .. he said already that scientology will be canceled .. because it is per nature an arbitrary in itself ..
Whatever, the clear cognition is finally, that you had no reactive mind in the first place .. that it is all you who mocked up everything .. so it is with present time, you are always in present time .. there is no other place to be .. you can wander into illusion, but it is still present time ..
In earlier days it was said that I would have also an analytical mind .. this was strange, because I surely had never a mind at all .. it is all me .. I have to create it or not ..
Finally there is some use in scientology .. because you can hold on some past via a facsimile .. and so you can add something to present time which is not there yet ..
It says that you should mock up something in scientology, about what you should find out that you did it .. and that is the way to OT .. so the best way to stop all this arbitrary is not mocking up anything .. but if everbody would do that .. the universe would vanish
This is all what scientology basically is .. so it is normal to re-do everything .. you have to erase everything you created .. and you will come into present time .. but you will be where you was at the beginning .. you will not longer find BTs .. it is all that you did create it yourself .. and which is the end of the bridge from LRH .. you will not be an OT at this point .. you will only know that you miscreated a lot ..
I really don’t understand why everyone has to go through all these steps over and over again. There are millions of pages of writings by Hubbard, thousands of ideas that could be pursued and made more in depth or whatever, new ways to look at “the tech” etc. Christianity AND Judaism have been working off 2 books for centuries, Islam has 1 book, and people of those faiths have managed to create hundreds of offshoots and scholars are constantly working to understand their faiths better, more in depth etc. DM has already proven that he has no problem with altering “Source”, so why can’t he manage to get some writings together and provide followers with a different level? or create some other type of level ? I may not be asking this question in the right way, but couldn’t a level be created that allowed people to continue to study Hubbard’s works/move up/do more in depth auditing or something?
Because that would require actual thought and as a rule (or so I’ve noticed) bullies don’t really think.
They can’t. Stupid Davey put all of his eggs into the KSW/Standard Tech basket and then tripled down on it with GAT I and GAT II: Electric Boogaloo. Mike said he’s a smart man, but he’s not as smart as he thinks. He has the Scientology mentality of Only Thursdays At 2 Count. Long-term planning is not a hallmark of him or his little cult.
I said this over at the South African blog while it was still alive: He had his chance. If he had said at the LRH Death Disco that KSW no longer applied and that the Tech would be developed by a committee of experts (Ray Mithoff and whoever else could be trusted), he could have put out anything and the sheep would have accepted it. He could have done it and still maintained total control.
Stupid, stupid Davey.
When I did New Life Repair For OT’S (!) I realized I am ALWAYS in present time! That’s because there isn’t any other time nor has there ever been. If I pursue a fanciful thought unrelated to the task I’m doing then I might be so-called “out of present time” in reference to the task but I’m IN present time in reference to the fanciful thought. Alert or nodding off, we’re always in PT.
I had that same realization on another course, Roger. Its terrific, and its true. There is nothing except present time, appearances frequently to the contrary. You communicated it so well. Thank you.
Hi Brian, Thank you for another powerful and thought provoking post. I go over memories in my mind not to remain stuck there, but to see if I missed some very important danger sign posts when I was in Ron’s World. In the beginning I really did miss some neon ones. Later on though I do agree with what you post.As I posted awhile back when I began even in the Sea Org to separate what Ron said versus what he actually did, that is when I started to see the gisnt fissures in his being.Still took me two more years to leave.That is what a spell-binding hypnotic operator does. Takes your mind, will and spirit if they can get it as their own! Ugly.
Now the light is so much sweeter and brighter and truer than any inside the cult.Love Always to two amazing spirits.Ann.
Ive never understood the point of Puriff if you can smoke tobacco and drink coffee. Nicotine is a stimulant, a strong and lasting one. To me it (and Niacin aside) completely invalidates the program. Advil brings corruption, Nicotine leaves you clear?
I was so grossed out by the number of smokers at the Morgue’s. I was told by the Purif I/C ( cuz my twin smoked NON STOP) that it is okay to smoke. Nicotine is not a drug and does not mess with the mind.
Can you believe we bought this SCIENCE??? WTF? (cringing…..still cringing)
Try taking someone’s cigarettes away? See what the withdrawal of that DRUG does to someone’s mind!
I was also told that Hubbard said it duplicates “volcanoes” so it is okay…somewhere on the track blah blah blah…Hubbard’s scio drivel!
Scientology is geared to support L Con Hubbard and he was a heavy smoker. That is why Slappy smokes and drinks and is VGI’s about his filthy habits.
Come, come now, Idle! Cigarettes are actually good for you! According to fatso, not smoking enough cigarettes will cause cancer in you. You better go out and stock up!
Not only is nicotine not a problem for the “Purif,” it is a “fact” established by Hubbard that _not_ smoking enough will cause cancer. (See http://www.xenu.net/archive/multimedia.html and scroll down to “Smoking” for the citation from Hubbard.)
In a way, Hubbard was kind of right. You do not have to be a smoker in order to get lung cancer. If a person is meant to get it they will get regardless. I have always pointed out to people that you do not have to be in a plane in order to die in a plane crash! LOL
Too funny! Laughter!
Ottawa, I’ll go you one further: Nicotine’s actual classification is as a poison. Its a poison, with narcotic properties which can be addicting. That is its classification. It is NOT scientifically classified as a drug. The properties of this poison be stimulating or soothing as the case may be Back in the day this word came up on some course I was doing and I had to look it up. A poison! I went thru all the dictionaries in the course room and they all said the same thing. I was completely shocked.
Totally agreed that smoking has no place on the Purif. As far as it causing cancer, it most definitely does, not necessarily always because of the nicotine, but because of all the chemicals (a bath containing hundreds of them, some carcinogenic) that the cigarette papers are soaked in, so that the cigarette will burn properly, i.e., not too fast or too slow, etc. This burning of the chemical soaked paper goes into your lungs and is carcinogenic.
If I sound smug please forgive me. I was addicted for 20 years, and while I was, nothing, but NOTHING could, or would, keep me from my cigarettes and I shrugged, jeered or sneered at anyone who didn’t approve, including people who loved me and were trying to get me to quit. I craved, I had to have it. No way did I listen. In a way it was a miracle that I quit, but I think I’ve bored everyone enough for the time being.
Hubbard took the line, “and if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you” to a whole other dimension. What a magnificent bastard! LOL
Ron has nothing in store for this guy or anyone else. He has been dead for 30 years
Shampoo. Rinse. Repeat. Money down the drain!
@Lori S well said!
Wait…it’s not, Repeat. Rinse. Shampoo? Boy, have I wasted a bunch of time…
Lol.
Was going to say that but thought I bet see if it was already up.
You did not disappoint..lol
“Was going to say that but thought I bet see if it was already up.” I knew you were going to say that. And you certainly did not disappoint, Sejanus…..
Marlon Brando in the Documentary ‘Listen to me Marlon” can be heard saying something like this. “The smart con man finds out where you want to go emotionally and will help you along the way to his own sweet ends.”
That is a an exact description of the “awareness scale” and the function of the ‘ruin’.
LRH did not only that, he even created a system with the awareness scale and instructions how to find out where a person wants to go emotionally and how to help him along. His genius was to con people and turn them around to become unwitting con man themselves multiplying the con to completely new dimensions.
And the “sweet ends” in Scientology are never ending. They will not give it any rest until they have all your money and most of your relatives signed up as slave workers. And you stumble along in the pursuit of following your emotional needs.
So people reading here on this blog secretly and behind closed doors do yourself a favor. Wake up and read the signs on the wall. If you don’t start protecting yourself and your loved ones nobody else will.
Happy Holidays everybody.
Gerhard – brilliantly stated.
Merry Christmas to you and isn’t it nice not to be harassed about not being on course because you want to celebrate with the family. Had to hear that year in and year out.
What level did you get to Gerhardt?
Lrn2Google: http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/g/gerhard-waterkamp.html 🙂
Also http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Former_Church_of_Scientology_members_who_have_spoken_out
I did the whole bridge up to OT VII, all Ls and training to NED. Trust me looking back and looking at the results, I see what I see.
Gerhardt, I’m not going to get into what LRH’s purposes with it were, but I want to point out that the Tone Scale, and finding someone’s ruin, can also be utiliZed to help someone. Just saying.
Aquamarine, How? Have you thought about it? A “ruin” is a personal perceived difficulty attached to a desire on part of the person to overcome it. It has an emotional impact on a person. The person could have many severe difficulties and shortcomings that really don’t bother him or her at all. A narcissist or sociopath has many shortcomings but that will never be his a ruin as the factor of desire and the emotional energy is missing.
Finding the “ruin” and than pretending or well meaning stating “Scientology can help you with that.” Is not helping the person it is grabbing the person by its emotions, using its desires just to direct this person to become a Scientologist that is what the con man wanted and he uses this trick to his own sweet end. That is all what dissemination is about, making Scientologist. It has absolutely nothing to do with helping a person and all to do with manipulation and the benefit of the con man.
Giving a person unconditional love, understanding and a fair share of truth and education about the Narcissist and Sociopaths in this world does more good for anybody than finding his ruin.
Therefore a dog is often more therapeutic than all the ruins of this world. 🙂
I am a little tired of the bleeping sheep raising there voice about the goodies in the con. Scientology is build on and for deception by one of the greatest Con Artists of the last century. It is conceived and designed to entrap people, And yes traps often have honey or cheese in them.
Gerhard, in the opinion of this particular bleeping sheep, finding someone’s ruin, something that happened in their past that they have lots of attention on in present, something that causes them to act in present time as a reaction to what happened in the past in a way that brings them neither happiness or success in present time – finding someone’s ruin is a simple skill.
As I said, knowing this simple skill is useful if you are trying to help them, if your motives are purely and honestly there to help them. Even if you can’t help them, knowing what is deeply bothering them can still allow you to understand the person, to have better communication, if your motives are honest and pure.
On the other hand, knowing how to find someone’s ruin is also useful if you’re trying to sell someone something that doesn’t necessarily want or need or that he can afford. It can be used to manipulate someone into doing things he wouldn’t ordinary do, something which does not benefit him, while at the same time, he is made to believe that it will.
Finding someone’s ruin can be utilized to help someone if one is oneself trustworthy, or it can be used to manipulate someone for one’s sole benefit and without caring for that person at all.
Its a simple skill, and how one uses it and if one should be using it at all depends upon one’s own individual purpose in using it along with one’s own degree of trustworthiness.
Hi Gerhard Waterkamp, Thank you for an interesting post. In my case the Sea Org Trap was stuffed gloriously with all the honey and cheese for a billion years. Then it all turned rancid. Love, Ann
David Miscavige is phobic on the upper Bridge
like being terrified of being around small children where
their BT’s might “jump” off and land on the COB.
DM. thinks he gets case gain connected to copper
ground rods of a buildings electric system.(really)
Many other deep seated fears that are mental illness.
Two words for D.M.
“YOUR FIRED”
Wait, I’ve spent a bit of time hooked up to the electrical ground system of buildings, does this mean I have had lots of case gain and where do I submit my WINS that I just realized I must have had? Err, does the 1 meg. ohm resistor between me and ground inhibit the case gain? Is that resister put there by evil Psyches to stop case gain and not to protect me from stray current? Also, does the time I’ve spent touching copper pipes while plumbing count? They are often connected to the electrical ground system!
PS, I was hooked up to the ground in-order to prevent static discharges from damaging electronic components.
DM should have hooked himself up to a copper ground rod, during a Johannesburg lightening storm. Amazing case gain from that!
There used to be Foot Pates until LRH discovered
they did not Audit the Bank.( See Foot plates Cancelled)
Copper Ground Rods would be the same.
D.M. has more screws loose than old junkyard Studebaker.
Dave’s got them in his John Lobbs, but the main rod is up his ass.
Hi Jose Chung, What an interesting post. I’m sorry but if dm ever came near me with an invitation to achieve case gain connecting to copper ground wires of a buildings electrical system, well regarding my ability to blow emeters, light bulbs and PBX machines, dm might just find himself in a very hot climate! Happy 2016. Enjoy your posts greatly. Love, Ann.
Also another amazing aspect of all this is the KSW departures: these new requisites are much faster (quicky), shorter (altered technology) and rewritten by a sociopath (off source).
All this based on the ‘scriptures’ of scn
One might say that “number of times through the materials equals certain and results.” Of course one would have to mean that ironically or sarcastically, and that ain’t me.
Hi dankoon, Happy 2016 and please keep your posts coming. Love, Ann.
What a strange rationalization for redoing services so that “one can get more into PT”? You are either in PT or you’re not.
Yep, it is like being a “little pregnant”.
Well, doesn’t being a “little pregnant” mean that the female who’s carrying the baby is small?
I think you’re confusing the word pregnant with the world German, as in, “I know a little German. He’s sitting over there.”
I’m pretty sure if we start using pregnant as a noun, it’s the start of the Handmaiden’s Tale.
Hi freespirit, Good to meet you.Wonderful post.Thank you. Love, Ann.
I knew a girl with a Handmaiden’s Tail. I couldn’t believe what she could do with her tail! She had some serious talent…
mmmm… just how wet can a wet dog get?
I’ve come to believe that a corporate scientologist can indeed become more stupid than stupid. They prove that more or less regularly – there is apparently no gradient fine enough to define them accurately. Maybe that fits in there somewhere concerning what present time is for them – does that help? Apparently there’s no future in trying to sell watches to scientologists.
you keep talking like that
i’ll start feelin nostalgic for dear narco,
referring to just yesterday as ‘the good ol’ days when he actually spoke, revealing how much he reviles himself, such as that pathetic life goes. And, no. No scn-gist is interested in watches or any other instruments of measure or scientific principles as it clearly goes against their religion. That mindset is quite saturated inside the bubble, next experiment, please.
Perhaps one reason they continue to pursue this course of action is in the hopes that one day some basic questions about the contradictions in Scientology will finally resolve. I give them credit for at least being persistent for that reason alone. Unfortunately I don’t feel those questions can ever be approached by a study of those contradictions within that environment. Circular indeed.
I’ve been pondering how one who is not in PT can manage to get all the way up the Bridge to OTVll to then realize that one is not in PT. To my mind that realization of not having been in PT would effectively cancel out the validity of all prior auditing, necessitating a redo of the entire Bridge. I’m not auditor trained but I did my Objectives in the HGC and I do definitely know what present time is, and I’m in it, and I also know that any “feeling” or “thought” that I may experience that I’m not in present time is simply a delusion. Whew! My head is spinning just conceiving of what these upper level OTs are going thru…so glad I’m not in and being subjected to this squirrel tech.
Dear OT VIII success story writer….there are plenty of places where the space will be big enough for you….they are called empty Ideal Orgs. No one there so you can go in and just permeate the walls, windows, the empty course rooms, the empty auditing rooms, the empty cafes, the whole damn org can be yours. But don’t get too big, Miscavige won’t like having more than two Big Beings at a time. You can however act like a small being while secretly being a Big Being. Then of course spaces will not be big enough for you but yet you can still mingle with the low life riff raff. Can you imagine only having Miscavige and Cruise to hang around with? It gets old real quick. Be big but stay small. And hey enjoy OT 9 & 10 you’re gonna love ’em.
Hi Potpie, Thank you for a heart-warming post. That OT9 & 10! What a blast back to the past that never was. All the money being forked over for fool’s gold! Sigh Love, Ann.
When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide
Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride
Till I get to the bottom and I see you again
Yeah yeah yeah hey
Helter Skelter by the Beatles
+1
As I loved a lot the “symbols” used by scientology, could I give some few I used in my website? Here is the URL, that’s a good illustration of the nothingness of the nothingnesses made by elrong.
antisectes.net/symbols.htm
Hmm maybe they are on to something there. All grandparents should be required to redo kindergarten, they will see it through new eyes. Yeah, NOT.
One small thing that made sense (so was probably stolen from elsewhere) when I was in was gradients. It is easier to learn something if you know the information below it.
However once you know 1+1 is 2, going back and relearning that does not do anything to help you advance. At best it bores you at worst it pisses you off and makes you want to find something worth your time.
I know from personal experience when I am just going through the motions in something in my life, I am looking for a way to get out of there. I can’t imagine I’m unique in that. Forcing people to re re re re do these things while calling them new is simply forcing them out the door.
Hey everyone! I just signed for Kindergarten! I really don’t think I got much out of it the first time, but, this time I’m going to stay awake longer!
And, I’m really impressed by the cults candor, that OT levels from 1 to 8, are, in fact, not real OT levels. It takes a lot of guts to admit something like that! So…no one in all these years never went OT. No one person. And now the sheeple are doing somersaults in preparation for THE REAL OT LEVELS…….until they tell the sheeple that OT 9 and 10 are not really OT levels either…….
No chewing the crayons this time. Better potty training expected. And be more of a sport during duck-duck-goose.
Hi OTD-OUTTHEDOOR, I loved your post. Y’all would not have wanted me to redo kindergarten. I threw crayons instead of chewing them and I refused to play duck-duck goose and would sit on the floor like a statue.My teacher left me alone as there was no point in forcing me..otherwise I was ready to blow that level in school, so would not wish to go back! And Student Hat, the basics again after I had gotten to OT8! Even if I was a still in that makes no sense! Happy sparkling 2016 to you. Love,Ann.
Well, you got the ‘better potty training’ thing right. You’d really be surprised at how pissed off the teacher got when I would pee in the corner of the room. Not sure what “duck-duck-goose is. I mean, I tried ducking twice and then yelling out “Goose,” but, my neighbors told me to shut up.
Sheesh, OSD, since no one went clear and they have to re re re re re re re attest to clear, why should they even assume that OT starts before IX?
Let me know if they still offer naptime in kindergarten. I excelled at it the first time. If they offer it again, I will sign up, though I’m telling you right here and now, I’m bringing more than a small mat to lay on the floor, I’m bringing a full airbed for my nap time.
Enjoy your first day of kindergarten. Please don’t eat the glue.
I excelled at recess.
Funny, I always recess when I excel. Probably why I never get anything done. I just hate being low stat….
You’re sure going to make all the other kids mad when they just have maps to sleep on. I’d sleep with one eye open if I were you. Little kids can be monsters you know. And..I never ate glue, I just sniffed it…….I liked the smell.
meh, the glue is non-toxic. DON’T DRINK THE KOOL AID!!?
Valerie,
We ALL need to redo kindergarten.
All our lives, all the problems each of us has been encountering with mathematics… let me put it this way, Valerie: we thought we were stupid?
No, we were not stupid. The blind have been leading the blind. 1 + 1 does NOTequal 2, necessarily. The early founders of mathematics never said that!. The truth is that sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t!
Some suppressive scribes perverted what the early founders dictated to them because they didn’t want the common man man to understand how to add and subtract because this knowledge could lead to far greater knowledge that was enormously threatening to their financial stranglehold on ignorant people. To ensure that no one learned, plus signs were substituted for minus signs and vice versa by SP Scribes. If this sounds grim, never fear.
We’ll all go back to kindergarten. Arithmetic is now available to be learned purely as the early founders intended. All arbitraries have been removed. The path to great achievements in the field of mathematics is now wide open for the first time in the history of this universe. The time is now.
What a post title, “Director of Bridge Control.” Boggles the mind hey?
I guess another look at the BS they keep inventing is that it’s done to keep the undernourished, sleep deprived staff member occupied. Their biggest threat comes from within. If it were possible to somehow spread the truth down to the rank and file, the Cof$ would implode overnight.
My crystal Ball is in getting a service but I wonder what we will be raving and ranting about by next Christmas? Maybe it’ll be all over by then and we go our separate ways… time is of the essence.
C’mon, I Yawn, don’t be cynical. The “Director of Bridge Control” is someone who raises the bridge up well as putting it back down. I mean, this is now what they do, right? You can be OT 8 (one of the non OT levels) but you still get to go back in Kindergarten and re-do levels you’ve already done! I wonderful if they’ll let me do the comm course again? That would be so bitchin.’
They’ve got a special course for Larry Page at Google on how to program in Basic.
And you know, I’ve always wanted to learn that tech language…..
Hi OSD, You have me really laughing! Miss Ann on the Comm Course now would cause a riot either of disbelief or utter amazement I am still around! Love your posts.Always, Ann.
Honey, we couldn’t do this without you!
Hi OSD, You are two of the sweetest….Bless you both Always, Ann.
Maybe they give you back your ruin as well so they can find it all over again. Even though they’ve been busy installing a new one anyway.
I apologise, my cynicism just gets the better of me. I’m just reverting all my pulled withholds back into being capable of being missed again. Who doesn’t like a fresh start hey?
Down the Bridge to total entrapment, poor devils. A brilliant trap, too, because its been pitched to them as “freedom”, and they’ve bought it hook, line and sinker. Really funny, or incredibly sad, depending upon one’s mood when contemplating it.
MUCH laughter! You’ve nailed it, Yawn. A fresh start! Down the Bridge we go!
We’ll get all those old witholds active again and ready for pulling! We’ll smother all those failed purposes of ours that got rekindled, and rehab all our ruins!
Please, I need to write a Success Story. I want others to experience these kinds of devastating losses.
It’s interesting that he used data and not knowledge. What did he memorize the phone book or something?
Imagine being an Interned Class 8 or Class 6 or OEC, FEBC and all those years of training – down the drain because you did them when they were squirreled. I’m sure when the Tech and Green/White Volumes are re-released without the squirrel in them, everyone will have to retrain from NED, Class 4 on up. All that time spent doing and redoing were for naught. All Squirrel. (eye roll)
It’s yet another David Misquirrelige special.
Oh, like the “Blue Plate Special?”
More like the You Lose Special
I had the “You Lose Special” once in a restaurant. I thought, “Gosh, what a funny name!” Yeah…funny…I lived in their men’s room for two days.
Yeah, like those squirrel Class XIIs trained by Hubbard himself. Luckily they were all declared, you know… to keep the keep the tech pure and on source. Think of where we’d be with those people still around on lines, geezers… thank you dm, phew! that was close, that comma nearly got me.
A COMMA! Holy shit! Those things can change the world as I’ve been told! You don’t want to mess with COMMAS! And don’t even get me started on semi-colons…….
Oh yeah – them colons – scary stuff, full of shit you know?
Hi IYawnalot, Laughter! I love your post! Ann
Semi-colons out of place. You’re bringing out the heavy artillery.
Pamphlets, Mary. The new Red & Green Volumes released AppleBoxBoy (which all in the Squirrel Group will be required to purchase) will be pamphlets.
🙂 Then He can brag about the speed of delivery being so much faster.
As usual McCarran, you provide insights at the top of today’s “Bridge” …. Tech and Admin…
As we know, these eye rolling un-squirreled, de-squirreled “new releases” are not financially sustaining DM’s cherch. Only lame, fat, beached whales spilling their guts do that. Everyone else, with 1/2 a brain, is gone.
When his new Green on White is re-released (if ever.. eye roll) it will focus on KSW, “Do what you are told to do or you are out”….
You’re right, McCarran. They’ll all have to redo. I think this is David Miscavige’s only way to survive. Create new courses and enforce redos of whoever is left. Whoever is left, squeeze, squeeze, milk them dry, until one day there isn’t anyone left. I’m not being funny; I honestly think this is what he’s doing, intentionally and with full awareness. Looking from his viewpoint, I don’t think there’s anything else he can do, other than folding up shop and announcing that the game is over. But even that he can’t do, because he’s lied so much that the sheeple wouldn’t believe him.
? Now that’s funny.
David miscavige: “Okay my dear flock, we’re folding up shop. The church of scientology is through.”
Sheeple: “We don’t believe you.” Lol
Church of the Circle Jerk.
I know you’re not going to believe me, but, that was the Church’s original name…
I thought it was the “Church of Never Enough Money” = CONEM
On no, Grasshopper. “Church of Never Enough Money” is one of the later changes to its name. When starting the cult, they would all sit in a circle and….well, you get the idea. And that’s why the early church was called “Church of the Circle Jerk.” All hail the might JERK!
You know, I think I’ll start my own church. It will be the Church of Walkology. Basically a member goes out on a 1 to 3 hour walk and in old neighborhoods (which were built in the horse and buggy era) examine buildings and wonder if they were actually corner grocery stores during that time or were the original owners being optimistic?
Going out for a walk, bye.
Hey Leslie! i want to be a member! How long do I have to walk before I get my first status?
Good question, I never worked out the status thing.
You are soooooooo CI!
Oh, I will. $20k gets you Crawl, $40k gets you Standing but Stumbling, $60k is Slow Meander, $100k is Brisk Walk etc up to Epic Cheetah Sprint which costs $10m Flag Fall fee plus everything you’ve got added to a mandatory 5.4x maxed out credit debt for yourself and every other family member from both grandparents down both sides of the gene pool. Double demerits for anyone declared that lives in your zip code.
Automatically deducted birthday present levy for dm is extra but a sliding discount rate applies for early birds wanting to take advantage of a personal tc photoshoot with a cardboard cut out.
Tempting, but I’ll have to pass. I’m a runner.
Whatever works for you.
Seriously??? Are you fucking kidding me??? Do you have ANY idea of the investment value of Epic Cheetah Sprint is??? My God! Where as sanity gone! Well, the Hell with you people! I’m going to get two!
I think they call that super power only they do it in a dark room. How depressing.
In a dark room, huh? If they have multiple people, do they all bump into each other? Is there any groping going on?
its all in the company you keep, not so much what you’re doin’
Poor guy. I hope somebody is there to help him when he crashes and burns.
So, as a WOG, I can join, and soon be in the same classroom as an OT VIII? Let’s just skip the dull parts, and sign me up for OT IX already! I mean, I can get the rest off the interwebs….
teleny, you gots to read the interwebs before you join, you aren’t allowed on the interwebs after you join, hurry and read it now before you get in.
Yeah, I’d listen to Valerie on this one. I read the interwebs after I got in and got spiders all over me. Some of them were really big!
Hey Mike I read the original OTVIII was only shown to two groups at Freewinds in the late eighties but went over so poorly Scientology claimed it wasn’t real. Do you know if that story is true and the one shown was real. Something about Hubbard revealing to be the antichrist. Thanks
Jeff, here is a thread regarding the original OT8 and the anti Christ info.
I started this idea and OT 8 completions chimed in. Your answers are there. It’s on Marty’s blog.
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/dangerous-thoughts/#comment-271568
thanks
Hi Brian, Thank you so much for that link to Marty’s blog. That was a very enlightening string of comments! I never thought the Lucifer rumor was far fetched because of the LRH lecture you mentioned. When I was ‘in’ I never made it even close to OTVIII. However I had heard verbally that LRH was Lucifer; and Christians had the whole notion of God being good and Lucifer bad backwards. I don’t really have a dog in this fight but I did find an interesting passage in the bible that I have never found an adequate explanation of.
GENESIS, Chapter 3 The Fall of Man, verse 22: Then the Lord God said: “See! The man has become like one of us, knowing what is good and what is bad! Therefore, he must not be allowed to put out his hand to take from the tree of life also, and thus eat of it and live forever.”
This God doesn’t sound too concerned with my eternity. And who is “us”? LOL
Merry Christmas everone! I love you guys.
Hi Good People, Liked your post.Learn something here always. I love you too. Ann.
And we love you, Good People.
As in the Christmas Story, “God bless us, everyone.”
Hey Good People, I do not understand that passage either. I’ll look into it.
Merry Christmas Good People!!
Original,OT 8 material can be found by internet search
and old school tracking down. Claiming to be “the”
Anti Christ is unique from all those claiming to be
“another” Anti Christ.
Ron’s delusional metaphysical self perception reached into the realms of the down right nasty.
This being, Jesus, taught love and sacrifice. Forget the churchy part. Jesus was considered a divine incarnation in the eastern world. In the west churchy people consider Jesus the “only way.”
But both east, west and secular folks identify Jesus with goodness.
But Ron takes the undisputed cake of oddity.
Christ stood for love, unity, sacrifice, putting others first, loving God and neighbors, helping the poor etc etc.
L Ron Hubbard positions himself, in the original OT8 delivered on the FreakWinds, as an enemy of this Christ. By being an enemy of Christ, he reveals his disdain for the myth of a perfect loving being and those characteristics that Jesus embodied.
Christ stood for love and sacrifice. L Ron Hubbard saw these traits as weakness. How else could he pen being opposed to Christ? Who is opposed to love and helping our fellows.
Who could associate Jesus with being a pedophile? What type of being could go there?
And how does Ron know Jesus was a pedophile? Do you know how he knows?
I do.
The needle went “blip” on the meter when he thought “Jesus sexually abused children.”
The needle was still going “blip” for Ron when he was begging to the electroshocked into death by the “death meter,” at the end of his life.
Ron solo audited himself into a psychotic state because he was not personally ready, nor educated properly that journey.
And what is supreme irony is that Ron wanted to kill himself by electroshock.
His whole anti psyche, electroshock is an implant dramatization, became for him at the end of his life a reflection of the lies and suffering he personally caused.
The man whose main pillar of faith, psyches and electroshock are evil, desired his demise to be by electroshock.
This is some macabre poetic irony.
The man who made finding BTs the major source of human suffering. The man who claimed he created a bridge to free you from BTs. The man who claimed to have a bridge to Total Freedom………………………………………………………………..
died in a psychotic state still looking for BTs. But his tech for freeing them wasn’t working, so he instructed Sarge to created a meter that would send 110volts through the cans and kill off Ron, thus freeing BTs.
This is the man who we have entrusted with confidence to free us of our suffering.
A man who preferred suicide by electroshock as a method of therapy. Think about it.
Ron was a Hypnotic Operator per his writing on Altitude Instruction.
Then he became mad though solo auditing because he collapsed the subconsciousness mind in on himself. Believing in needle reactions as undisputed truth, Ron followed the murky waters of imagination into a pathological state of mind.
Thanks so much Brian for the information. I sometimes think with the whole occult aspect of Ron’s life he was perhaps possessed. Who knows. Merry Christmas to all of you and God bless
Thank you Jeff, Merry Christmas to you and everyone. Ron included. Where ever he is.
I agree Jeff, The occult talking to any old disembodied entity thing is not recommended.
The teachers from the east say to only commune with beings more evolved then we. Just like dark dingy corner bars don’t like a lot of light, Some beings like to live in the shadows.
If we do not live in shadows they do not have a place to hide.
Brian, I agree with you very much about Jesus. When I was in Scientology I grew away from Jesus. However since being out I’ve read some good books by Steven Mitchell. I believe Jesus was a Bodhisattva. I also believe modern day american Christianity is very far from his teachings.
As far as the pedophile accusation goes. I don’t think Jesus was one. However someone at the Bunker(an OT8) pointed out there is a passage in the bible that could be intepreted that way. And Ron was probably familiar with it.
“But both east, west and secular folks identify Jesus with goodness.”
Yeah, not exactly.
Jesus on the atrocities of the Old Testament, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”
Jesus on his religion causing family division, “And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.”
Jesus on towns that won’t accept his disciples and listen to them, “Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.”
John on Jesus, “[Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.” It has been pointed out there were no repercussions for the clergy who were benefiting from the service of the money changers.
Jesus on his role, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” Oh and this one is particularly telling, “For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet.”
I think you’ll find many secular people do not associate Jesus with goodness – he is simply a white-washed version of the OT god, and therefore equally responsible for how the religion is used to control people’s thoughts and behavior, in particular involving the control and subjugation of women.
It doesn’t benefit tearing down one self-righteous ideologue to ignore the destructive nature of another.
I have learned about Jesus not from the western view. I went to Catholic school for 8 years. Jesus was just a cartoon superhero with my views of him as you have now CleverK.
But then I met men from the east. I learned to see Christ as one of them. They taught me who he really was. And what he was. And that there were others like him.
I will not argue these points with you CleverK. There’s too much prep knowledge before we can even talk.
But if you are interested, or not, or ,maybe someone else is; read “The Second Coming of Christ” by Paramahansa Yogananda. In this two volume set you get to comprehend how the new testament is under from an eastern perspective.
It’s a totally different kettle of fish. Jesus was a very special creature. And there are others.
The point of my post was that according to the accounts of Jesus life, found in biblical writings – which are the only writings to this day which genuinely claim that the man ever existed – no he is not to be perceived as a passive peace lover who rejected the violent extremism and exclusionary attitudes of the OT. And that it’s a complete misstatement to suggest that most secular people see him that way – in fact people who are actively involved in spreading secularism in the U.S. and other Western nations, have pointed out for years, that when people claim a Pat Robertson or a Fred Phelps aren’t true Christians who espouse the values of Jesus portrayed in the bible, they’re wrong. Those men have as many New Testament validations of their hatred and self-righteousness, as they have validations in the Old Testament – because the NT repeatedly validates the OT, sometime it even expands upon it.
As for my views of Jesus Christ, I certainly don’t see him as a cartoon superhero – I see him as just another fictional attempt to create a messiah with the same general backstory as dozens of religions before (and one could argue after) Christianity. Not only was Jesus not special, he was literally a subpar copy of many others – like Horus, or Adonis, or Cadmus, or Mahomet or Thor. And frankly, if I’m looking to enjoy some religious mythology, there are MUCH better written stories, that are far more entertaining and enlightening, than anything produced by Christian mythology. Jesus Christ is the “Jason X” of comparative religion.
In the four gospels, all of them. Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, the story goes from birth to age 12.
Then there is a hole for 18 years. Nada, zip, nothing until he is 30.
That is 18 missing years in the bible. IN ALL FOUR GOSPELS.
That is the major portion of his life.
I scored a movie Jesus in India distributed by Universal. In this film there is evidence of Jesus traveling the Silk Road to India and Tibet.
There are books that talk about this.
My point is: that which is known in the west is a very watered down version of Jesus. You are talking about the western distortion. The control occurred by Constantine.
But Jesus is a very different character than who we’ve been told about.
18 missing years. Those missing parts were by design in my opinion.
Can’t have the perfect God being Jesus studying with the Buddhists and Yogis can we.
It messes up the story.
There is more to it if you are interested.
The Unknown Years Of Jesus Christ by Nicholas Notivich is the book to read. Or Yogananda’s.
Hi Brian, Your post was really interesting to me as I have always thought about Jesus as you commented. I built a house in Virginia Beach,Va and was there about three and one half years.Got into the ancient mysteries part of ARE (area research and enlightenment) that was about 10 minutes away. Their original building since Cayce started in the 30s. The point being in his books Cayce talks about the same gap in Jesus’s life. I was still feeling the effects of Ron’s World badly back in the 80s, so after I moved away I did not pursue ARE further.But I have always felt drawn to Jesus pre- the council at Nicea etc. whoever or whatever he was is fascinates me. I will have to read the other book you recommend.The current one is a treat to be taken in small pieces and really thought about. Thank you Brian. Shine on.Love, Ann.
I will read that book, Brian. Fascinating subject for me – this and and the 300 or so years of Christianity before Constantine.
Nicholas Notivich?? The guy who was largely discredited the moment he published and who there is every indication invented all of his supposed research? The one who Ehrman said of, “Today there is not a single recognized scholar on the planet who has any doubts about the matter. The entire story was invented by Notovitch, who earned a good deal of money and a substantial amount of notoriety for his hoax.” If you’re being called a hoax by a guy like Ehrman, who has his own issues with ignoring scholarly consensus when it contradicts his ego, AND still maintains the argument of the historicity of Jesus by claiming more weighted extra-biblical evidence exist than actually does, that’s a REALLY bad sign. And Notivich’s only corroboration – Swami Abhedananda – after he died his own disciple confessed that he’d never actually seen the Life of Issa, because it was supposedly lost when he went to seek it.
You’ll have to forgive me if your reading suggestions don’t hold much merit. You want to read a book that looks for actual historical evidence of the facts of the historicity of Jesus, I’d suggest something by Acharya S/D. M. Murdock.
And you really shouldn’t ever purport to speak for secularists; no secularist would support defending the historicity of a biblical figure, with religious texts from another religious group, which no one else has ever actually seen or recorded the existence of, and were just translated to a single person under mysterious circumstances… It’s a story that smacks heavily of Joseph Smith.
Yes Clever K, That Nicholas Notivich.
It seems Thought Clubs have a terrible time dealing with the reality of their teacher. People die to uphold the delusions of belief.
Just like Scientologists for Ron.
There were others besides Abhedananda who traveled to Ladak in Tibet and saw the manuscripts. Film crews have gone to the Himis monastery and the head Lama acknowledges their presence. They would not reveal them because the monastery does not want the tsunami of attacks that true believers would escalate to keep the false narrative alive
Have you read any of these books you say experts say are bunk?
When we become adept at comprehending and applying eastern practices and procedures, it becomes obvious what Christ was and is.
I would suggest studying first before you google search to attempt to make less of my claims. We could then be on the same page. But that may not be your motive.
Merry Christmas CleverK 😉
Thought Clubs – funny I always called them historical scholars. And I’ve never heard a single one of those scholars I mentioned or their colleagues threaten to die for their ‘beliefs’. I have seen them provide multiple threads of information which discredit charlatans and snake charmers – like LRH and from all evidence Notivich. But of course, when someone provides a theory that is based almost entirely in blind faith, and others question it, it’s easy to say the dissenters can’t handle the truth. Again a tactic of the CoS.
I’ll tell you what. Provide links to information which has ever verified the existence of the manuscripts. Because despite your condescending suggestion otherwise, I didn’t do A google search and come to my conclusions. A: I’ve been studying scholars on this topic for some time and am familiar with the more notable among them, and B: I actually spent several hours learning more about the book you mentioned and the articles about the Life, before I came to my assessment about it’s validity. And in my research I never came across a single article which supports the claim you just made about additional evidence of its existence.
It’s so strange when people suggest you should read the works of someone acknowledged to have fabricated their evidence, before you decide if their conclusions are sound. What a novel idea. Should I also start a fad diet, regardless of its lack of evidence of efficacy, to see if it works anecdotally? Should I read a biography that has been established to be full of invented stories and falsehoods, to decide if the story is good enough to ignore the bad research behind it? Should I continue to argue that thiomersal causes autism, because Jenny McCarthy makes impassioned pleas for everyone to believe it, and ignore the mountain of evidence proving that the connection was a hoax and the evidence for it was fabricated by a now discredited researcher? No, like most people who care about facts and evidence, I don’t read every book put out by everyone who calls themselves a historian – I read books by people who have the credentials and research methods to back up the title.
My motive has always been the same, despite the patronizing way some people try to pretend there are others – facts supported by actual evidence, not faith masquerading as facts. You claimed that secularists believe something without any evidence to support your claim. As an active member of multiple secularist groups, I pointed out the error. You told me to read a book that would supposedly validate your personal views of JC, which to this day is agreed upon by scholarly consensus to be a hoax, I pointed out that fact. My motive is entirely clear – to present facts with empirical evidence that supports them.
Your motive however, seems to be to convert me to to some belief in the existence of a character, for whom there is zero contemporary evidence of his existence. Are you planning the read the author I suggested who has gathered significant evidence that he didn’t exist? Have you read the many other books out there which detail why his historicity is unsupported? Because if not, your attempt to paint me as the one with ulterior motives is quite transparent. And the only person attacking someone personally, to protect coveted beliefs, is you.
Happy Solstice, since as I’m sure you’re well aware, if Christ had existed he would not have been born in December, or in any part of the world which would’ve had pine trees and sleigh rides in the snow.
No desire to convince you of anything. I accept that this is how you see it and I am ok with that.
I have read both sides of the argument.
Sorry if I misunderstood regarding googling.
We will have to agree to disagree.
Thanks for your spirited response CleverK.
Merry Christmas. And may this season be fantazmical for you and your loved ones.
Brian,
All Religions are an implants that was played on an endless
loop magnetic tape 21 feet long. Including Jesus, so this opens
up considerable food for thought. Maybe there are hundreds
of these magnetic tapes floating around the Universe with
all manner of wild stuff. Ordained Pastafarians seem safe,
your guess is as good as mine.
LMAO! Are you kidding me! Pastafarians are the biggest proof that the R-6 bank is real!
Jose, what you posted is true. I can attest to it as I’m an Ordained Pastafarian Minister. The only down side is the weight gain……..
We are implanted by our own ignorance. We are the effect of those things we do not understand or wrongly understand.
Religion as a subject is neutral just like politics. Religion is and can be benevolent and useful.
It is the ignorance and greed in the human mind that is the problem.
One of the sad effects of being in a mind numbing cult is that it is easy to throw away the spiritual goals because of abuse. The goals become associated with bunk and mindless stupidity, because of the abuse of reason, that cults seem to enjoy without end.
I know wonderful reasonable friends that are in a church. They are great people.
Religion, spiritual living, can be a inspiration and joy in life.
Being in a cult is like being in a relationship were one hits and abuses the other. When they break up, the abused is wary of relationships. He says,”no more for me, I’ve had enough pain.”
Get back on the horse. There are wonderful adventures to be braved. It’s the greatest show on earth: Conscious self transformation
Amen Brother.
Sounds like Ron snapped terminals to use his term.
Good summary Brian, and I’d a agree not because you said so nor because Hayakawa does or anybody else. I just use my own observation of never meeting a clear as defined by Hubbard and knowing many that are supposedly clear and knowing several who have done OT8. I guess I’m in PT, LOL.
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/hayakawa.htm
here is an excerpt:
“I have long felt that there are dangers to the writer as well as to the reader in pulp fiction. It did not occur to me until I read Dianetics to try to analyze the special dangers entailed in the profession of science-fiction writing. The art consists in concealing from the reader, for novelistic purposes, the distinctions between established scientific facts, almost-established scientific hypotheses, scientific conjectures, and imaginative extrapolations far beyond what has even been conjectured. The danger of this technique lies in the fact that, if the writer of science-fiction writes too much of it too fast and too glibly and is not endowed from the beginning with a high degree of semantic self-insight (consciousness of abstracting), he may eventually succeed in concealing the distinction between his facts and his imaginings from himself. In other words, the space-ships and the men of Mars and the atomic disintegrator pistols acquire so vivid a verbal existence that they may begin to have, in the writer’s evaluations, ‘actual’ existence. Like Willy Loman in The Death of a Salesman, he may eventually fall for his own, pitch.”
Hayakawa read Dianetics back in 1951. If one were to read the Heinlein letters between Campbell & Heinlein, one of the letters by Campbell mentions that Ms Cary Grant and Hayakawa checked out Dianetics.
Here’s the link to read the file for 2 bucks. File number CORR306-07
http://heinleinarchives.net/upload/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=893
That’s fascinating, to read the 1951 review. The late Dr. S.I. Hayakawa was, I believe, the chairman of the English department at San Francisco State University in the late 1950s when my father was on the faculty. For a long time my parents had a framed artwork that he made, a Japanese artwork, created by covering the side of a large fish with black ink and then pressing it on rice paper. Hayakawa later got elected as a U.S. senator from California and served a single term. He was a smart scholar, as the review bears out.
Pay no attention to the rubbish about OTVIII being the story about Jesus and Lucifer etc. It is complete nonsense and a total red herring invented by malicious persons in the Freezone. In this crap “LRH” writes about Jesus yet the OTIII materials state the complete opposite tat Jesus never existed. If you want to believe this either you have some bee in your bonnet about Scientology and Hubbard or you are a complete fool. The “data” in it is so contradictory and ridiculous as to be laughable. If it was ever delivered on Freewinds which some claim I can only see it being done by that weirdo Miscavige to test to see what people would believe. You will notice it was quickly withdrawn – obviously when he found out what he wanted to find out – and if the story is true. There is an original 1969 HCOB designated “OTVIII” and it has nothing to do with Lucifer etc.
See also Pierre Ethier’s link here:
http://www.upperbridge.org/OT8PLUS.htm
Didn’t you post this identical comment earlier on this subject and it resulted in a large volume of responses highlighting the flaws in your logic here? And BTW, I have no personal knowledge one way or the other about the veracity of this material, but I would NOT go out on a limb to proclaim it is false because L. Ron Hubbard said something different somewhere else. And the 1969 HCOB has nothing to do with ANY version of OT VIII that has ever been released… But that is unsurprising, there are a LOT of things said in scientology about what is or isn’t and they are subsequently contradicted, often many, many times.
Why do you want to go down this road again? Your comment isn’t rude or offensive or a personal attack. And it isn’t off topic. So I nearly always approve such things. But I do wonder why you want to start this over again?
Because somebody else “started it” – I didn’t. And because there were a large number of responses “highlighting the flaws” does not make these responses correct – most of the responses are from people who would find fault with anything Hubbard wrote. If anyone wants to believe the totally daft and childish story of OTVIII being this Jesus and Lucifer and spontaneous combustion nonsense then let them carry on doing so but surely I have a right to state otherwise for those who might not know either way, such as the Christian-inclined respondees? I am not supporting the (Miscavige) Church in this either – they are the ones who have adulterated OTVIII and brought out a technical degrade and represented it as “OTVIII” with the currently delivered version of “OTVIII”. The “road” (I am travelling down) you mention was started and paved by others but with poor tarmacadam. I am simply pointing out that this particular “tar” is somewhat sticky and poor material. (Quite a good pun that – ha!) You could also ask why do others want to keep on going down this sticky road again? Ask someone with technical training like Dan Koon what he honestly thinks of this “OTVIII” story and you will have the answer to this.
Fair enough. But your logic doesnt hold up to much scrutiny. If you think you will somehow ameliorate the concerns of the “Christian-inclined respondees” with quotes from OT III materials I think you are misguided. To be charitable.
“Foolproof” is such an apt handle for you. Every time you post, especially when the subject of the Anti-Christ OTVIII comes up, you provide proof that you’re a fool. Why don’t you just go over to Millstone Two, where you can have your delusions spoon-fed to you by your fellow delusionals? I’m sure you’ll be happier there, just like all of the Scilons who left here when Mike proved to be too “impure” for them.
And when you get there, say hi to hiatus57, Ronnie Bell, Carcha, Marildi, and Robin Remoteviewed, King Of The Hubbard Ass-Lickers. Some of us here remember them. And some of us Do Not Forget and Do Not Forgive.
Hi Espiando, Thank you, your posts have a way of getting my full attention! Always, Ann
Espi, what did these people do to you, that you Do Not Forget / Do Not Forgive (them)? I’m not being coy or perjorative. I’m just curious. Feel free to tell me it is none of my business as that’s certainly true.
Aqua, I’m an Anon. Our motto is “We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us.” Their crime is promulgation of a philosophy that specifically targets me for elimination because of who I am. I am going to fight back against anyone who does so. It’s simple as that, really. I guess Scilons would call it a pro-survival action on my part.
Thanks for explaining that, Espi. I understand now.
I post here because there are mugs like you ranting and raving and spewing vitriolic bile and untruths. Just stick to the truth and the actual scene rather than your chagrin because you were denied auditing and you won’t get any “backflash”. And as for saying I am OSA or whatever (the usual retort) well, I think if you examine my other comments against Miscavige etc. you will again find the untruth in your idea on that. But then you know that as well.
“Vitriolic bile and untruths”? Like Hubbard stating that anyone below 2 on the Tone Scale needs to be “moved up” or eliminated, quietly and without sorrow? That is a truth. Hubbard wrote it. I’m making people aware of it. And you don’t like it because it paints your hero/god in an extremely negative light. Well, boo hoo. Go do a Putrif and see if it gets rid of your butthurt.
I was never denied auditing for the simple reason that I never tried to get it. Unlike you, I was smart enough to not touch this cult and this wretched philosophy with a thirty-nine-and-a-half foot pole. Don’t try to attempt to Dead Agent me like that. That shows more negatives about you than it does about me.
I have never said you were OSA, nor thought that. What I will admit to thinking about you, however, will not make it past Mike’s filters, so I will not write them.
You’re so clueless you don’t even realize that your “quest for spiritual freedom” has put you in a straitjacket of Hubbard’s making. Start thinking for yourself instead of letting some hack third-rate science fiction author do the thinking for you.
“Ask Dan Koon about it ?”
You are acting so arrogant and presumptuous here , Foolproof. There are dozens!!! of trained people that participate in this blog. Do you really want me to test your “Knowledge” of the Tech publicly ? If you are such an expert, are you willing to publicly pass an exam ? Let’s see how much of an “expert” you are, then.
ANY, ANY KSW willing to debate with me, just step forward and let’s do this publicly. Want to make Theta Clear wrong publicly ? This is your chance. I challenge you publicly, any of you, Jim Logan, Chris Black, Pierre Ethier, Wolfgang, ANY of you. Do you think that you really know about life and livingness just because you hold a LRH certificate ? Balderdash!!!
You want to debate with me with VALID arguments about the authenticity or lack there of the Lucifer document ? Let’s do it right here , PUBLICLY. But you rather choose to Q&A with it all under the excuse that I “Am against LRH and Scn”. How a pathetic attitude.
You KSWs act blind as a bat when it comes to LRH and Scn, and no, absolutely no valid arguments, no matter how intelligent and professional put forward , get ANY of you to even inspect it. That’s why I gave up on all of you. It is a waste of time trying to convince any of you of anything.
You guys just assign wrong intentions to my assertions every time. What is a genuine impulse to get you to observe, to get you to see the contradictions, the abuses of LRH’s writings, the authoritarianism of it all, the hype and dishonest promotion of false states of beingness ; is twisted in your minds, and you only see an enemy where there is only a real friend.
A friend of truth, of justice, of free will and self-determinism.
I am tired of attempting to do something good for any of you. Believe what you want ; be blind to truth all you want to. I am done with you guys.
Peter Torres
Why are they even reading this blog? Isn’t that against the rules? Who knows….maybe Foolproof is from the OSA and they are being ordered to disrupt everybody’s serenity.
Hey Foolproof……go punch COB in the face and tell him you quit. He has never been punched back before so I can tell you that it will shock the shit out of him! And it will also help others because he will always wonder who will turn on him when hit.
In fact , dear Mike, I was the one who provided Foolproof with a very detailed explanation – including VERY specific quotes from LRH’s writings and lectures- about the plausibility of the authenticity of the Lucifer document. I went to all the pain of compiling for him all the quotes that supported my thesis, and what did he do ? He didn’t have the balls to debate with me, cause he really didn’t have any valid arguments to counteract mine.
Most Scientologists do this ; they Q&A with answering intelligent arguments as they KNOW they WILL lose the debate.
I am not even bothering posting again my reply to him at that time, as it is obviously is a total waste of time. I am sure you know what I mean.
Peter
If you think I “have lost the debate” then good luck to you. You are assuming that your so-called “intelligent arguments” and out-of-context comments on a document which states that one will spontaneously combust if “it” is run wrongly and that Jesus was a pedophile and LRH is/was Lucifer is a valid LRH-written document. The document is a laughing stock designed to find out which fools would believe this nonsense and then embarrass themselves by saying it is true – which was probably Miscavige’s little game on this for a couple of weeks!
And Mike – If I had something to say about documents being “outlandish” then I would negate or deride the OTIII documents, as you say. But I have run the level and ran it well so, no, I am not going to. OTIII is valid and HAND-written by LRH. The “OTVIII” Lucifer document is however, a crock of shit. As I say, ask Dan Koon (but he probably does not want to get involved and would again probably feel embarrassed about being asked about it), or refer to Ethier’s article.
Well, you just proved my allegations about you “KSW supporters”. Just Q&A as I thought ; not one single intelligent rebuttal from you. “Out of context” , my ass ; I specifically quoted LRH. But I guess you didn’t even take the opportunity to check them out. I rest my case. It is always the same story with you guys.
TC
Who do you think people will now believe about this OTVIII story after reading all of the above comments? Spoilt your little attempt to mock and invalidate has it not and pass off a crock of shit as written by LRH? As for challenging me to doing tests on the Tech don’t bother – I used to write the exams on such in the Church.
Just more Q&A and nonsense from you, dear Foolproof. “Who is going to read it now?” Hilarious indeed!!! Everybody have. You “wrote the exams? ” No wonder ; with Qual guys like you Scientologists became but robots to authoritarianism, and blind as a bat. Good joob!!!
And by the way , the Lucifer document isn’t needed to “mock” LRH ; he already took care of that with all his bullshit cosmology that you guys bought. But somehow you think that the Lucifer one sounds more “logical” and “sane” than all the other bullshit.
Nice talking to you , even if you ran with the tail between your legs at the end. :-)))
It should have read, “But somehow you think that the Lucifer one sounds more “illogical” and “insane” than all the other bullshit”.
It is, in fact, of the same orders of magnitude.
So I am accused of being an OSA operative. Very clever! In fact there is a far greater chance of people like Theta Clear and Espiando actually being OSA operatives! Any UTR Scientologists visiting this site to satisfy any curiosity would read their anti-Scientology ravings and beat a hasty retreat and stay on lines in Miscavige’s Church. Even being robbed by IAS Regges and sent to the hole would be better than associating with such folk they would think. And “KSW types” (as I suppose I am or have been labelled) would be attacked and encouraged to stay off the board as the insanity and unreality level must be maintained. Mike you are the ex-head of OSA – what do you think? Clever ruse going on here? Theta Clear did the same (disruption) over on M2 as well before he was told to shove it.
It never ceases to amaze me the “power” that KSW supporters grant me at “disrupting” things. I suppose that I am also responsible for the end of the South African blog (BIC) as well because my post was the last one there where I said goodbye. Funny, Tom Martiniano, one of the board of directors of MS2, also thinks that I am an OSA troll.
I also sent a massive public comm to every terminal in the field exposing the criminal activities of an alleged “KSW” terminal who robbed my friend $16,200 USD with undelivered services. This con man, by the way, is about to be arrested for Fraud and violating the HIPAA law. Only 4 terminals from a list of over 100 offered ANY help at all. They rest of “KSW” super “ethical” Scientologists, just washed their hands like Pontious Pilate, or heavily protested my actions of attempting to alert others of a crook. For them it was more important to “protect” the reputation of the “Indie Field” , and I was just “enturbulating” others. “He is going to damage the “‘reputation’ of the Course Room” , told Wolfgang to a friend of mine. “Peter is going to ‘spoil’ the Field, shut him up please, make him desist”.
What a bunch of pathetic cowards , with no honor and integrity. That is what Scientologists are ; most of them at least.
“Disrupting MS2? ” Oh please, have you examined MS2 blog’s stat ? They are dead!!! They have no fucking public, for Christ sakes!!! What god-damned blog are you talking about? The one that publish one article every other week, and who gets 3-4 replies of the same 4 posters? Don’t make me laugh. When I was there -being PTS to all their bullshit- they published 3-4 articles a week, and had 25-45 active posters, and more than 50-75 replies under each article. Now? They are ghost town. BIC, doesn’t even exist anymore. Apparently, I made it happen as well. Gee, I am a fucking super duper OSA operative.
The fact is that there are not more PRO-LRH/Scn blogs in existence anymore save the cementery MS2 and Scientolipedia and only for the materials themselves. Wow, it seems that Theta Clear has been VERY busy indeed!!! And now he is attempting to “disrupt” Mike’s blog as well. I am mighty and powerful, I like that. And I thought that I was a nobody from the middle of nowhere. You have made my day, thank you.
Hey Mike, better be careful ; Peter is here secretly planning how to shut you down as well.
Hi Theta Clear, I read your post and I am with you. I was told by a very upset I assume Indie, that I was not letting Mike’s comm flow properly and I never say anything positive about Ron. So I ignored the cycle because I was going to get nowhere fast making my point which would not be heard anyway. You have stirred the pot and the very best ones always catch the most s###! You are one of the best. Merry Christmas and the brightest 2016 to you and yours. Love Always, Ann.
Hi Theta Clear, I read your post and I am with you. I was told by a very upset I assume Indie, that I was not letting Mike’s co mm flow properly and I never say anything positive about Ron. So I ignored the cycle because I was going to get nowhere fast making my point which would not be heard anyway. You have stirred the pot and the very best ones always catch the most s ###! You are one of the best. Merry Christmas and the bright st 2016 to you and yours. Love Always, Ann.
Thanks for your kind words and support , my dear Ann ; you are a very special spirit indeed!!! Merry Christmas to you , and to your family too, and a wonderful 2016 full of joy, peace of mind, and spiritual revelations.
Up to a few months ago, my very honorable intentions were to reform and rehabilitate Scientology for others as an institution , as a body of work. I felt, that Scientology could be stripped away of the authoritarian and suppressive policies , and be re-organized into a body of work free from any elements that violate or ignore the fundamental Human Rights. As Scn basically copy-pasted the original works of others, and as it had been compiled into lay man’s terms in forms easily assimilated by the uninitiated, I thought (still do) that it had many truthful and workable parts that perhaps shouldn’t get lost due the phenomena of the ARC break and its generalizing manifestations.
I had been using it myself on a daily basis in my attempts to improve conditions in life , and even though I found myself -in lots of occasions – needing to modify it to increase or correct its workability, I found it workable enough to be used , at the basic level, at least.
But REGARDLESS of its workability or lack thereof, my basic intention was to allow the Freedom of Religion right to manifest itself w/out the undue influence from anybody. It was very important to me (still IS) that others felt the space and freedom to believe what they wanted to believe, and to participate in whatever they wanted to participate in , w/out feeling the need to justify their actions.
The problem was that Scn, as a whole body of work (Tech, Admin and Ethics) , possesses VERY destructive policies and authoritarian premises which rob us Free Will and the capacity for discernment. LRH had turned Scn into a cult , and had lied to the parishioners about the alleged “abilities” that the Bridge supposedly was capable of bringing about. The state of “Clear” -not only as described in DMSMH , but in many 1952-62 bulletins – was never a reality ; not even close. But it all was “explained away” by attributing this lack of promised results to the concept of “Out-Tech” ; the invented excuse to disguise lack of competence and intellectual dishonesty.
The same lie was told about the famous (or infamous for many) “OT” levels. They were supposed to bring about :
1. “A ‘fresh’ causative ‘OT’ viewpoint of the MEST universe and other beings”.
Actually , it all is a series of Objective type of processes done Solo style , only attempting to implant (and to get you used to it) you with the idea that your current beingness is a compositive one (The BTs). That’s why processes like, “Walk around and count bodies” , and “Find a tight crowd of people, note it as a crowd, then as individuals” (the concept of “Clusters”). There is no Scn cosmology mentioned in it, yet it is considered “confidential”. A super “secret” that can get you declared “SP” even if you only hint about what it is all about.
This “EP” is only the hype of it all ; the tech of Advertising masterfully applied.
2. OT II , ““By confronting hidden areas of one’s existence on the whole track, vast amounts of energy and attention are released. Those on this Solo-audited level experience a resurgence of self-determinism and native ability. OT II unlocks the aberrative factors on the whole track that have allowed the thetan to lose his innate freedom and ability and one achieves the ability to confront the whole track.”
This is a series of about 1,000 implant (GPMs) lines out of 20+ GPMs , which you repeat while “Spotting the light” to your left, and “Spotting the Thetan (you at the time)”. The repetition of each line allegedly renders that line “ineffective” , thus “freeing” you of its “post-hypnotic suggestivility”. A bunch of balderdash, even, EVEN if any of those implants were in fact true, which I am not saying they are.
No, ABSOLUTELY NO “OT” has ever run, actually run with full visio and sonic, ANY of those “implants”. They just ASSUME them to be true just because the lines “read”. So “Of course they must be true ; the god the E-meter said so” , and LRH indoctrinated us into believing that the E-meter is never EVER wrong. Balderdash!!! What a con man , he was.
3. At OT III you are “Free from overwhelm with a recovered self-determinism”. Funny though, Scientologists are the most enturbulated and overwhelmed individuals that you care to know ; Full of PTPs and life situations which contradicts this “Self-determined” state.
4. IV, V , VI and VII deals with your “BTs” after you were told at III, that you had “No more BTs” as its “confidential” EP. But then, it is all about “research” , isn’t it ? So LRH “discovered” , that only the more “alive” BTs, the ones who weren’t “dormant” , were the ones “gone” at III. The rest were into this “dormant/hidden” state which needed to be “Woke up” by various techniques, which include “What are you ? / who are you ?” valence type of “techniques”.
A switch in viewpoint occurred in LRH, and from “A being causes his own effects” , he changed it into, “BTs causes all kind of unsuspected attitudes, unwanted thoughts, unwanted intentions, illnesses, PTS sits, destructive attitudes, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc “. In fact, he died totally insane, and obsessed with the idea of BTs – after being allegedly the most “perfect” Solo-NOTs completion himself (close to 2,000 hours of it, I was told) – to the point of having asked Sarge to build for him a “BT killing machine” , so that he could “end cycle” on his current body “free” of “BTs”.
So to become “Cause over life” , one needed to get rid of what “IS” causing you not to, and what is actually the “whole” of your case , allegedly.
5. Original IV, V , VI, and VII, allegedly brought about (together) “Stable” Exteriorization with full perception and mobility as a being, with the ability to “project intention” and get things to “happen” in the MEST universe.
But because it DIDN’T HAPPENED ad expected , and as advertised -as with ANY OTHER LRH procedure- then LRH magically “stumbled” upon “NOTs” , after Mayo went to “help” him when he got severely ill. NOTs would “solve” the unworkability of the old levels, then. But then they got “mysteriously” taken off the Grade Chart BEFORE LRH dropped his body ; in fact, years before.
But even after all these lies, which I covered in full in various articles in the no-longer-existing BIC blog (allegedly because of me, as its Admin just refused to ever answer my comms ever again) , I STIL wanted to salvage the subject , and reform it so that at least, others could use it w/out no ill effects upon them and others. I BELIEVED in the capacity and willingness of the Scientologists, the KSW supporters, to be humble and honest enough to publicly accept LRH’s shortcoming and destructive traits, apologize for his mistakes -thus indicating the correct BPC in others who were the devastating effect of many injustices- , and to publicly state that they were against those destructive policies, and that were willing to reform the subject so that any elements that violates Human Rights , would no longer be part of the philosophy itself.
Unfortunately, no matter how much I tried, (and my God, I DID tried hard) these KSW individuals insisted in looking at me as their enemy. The “enemy” who dared criticize LRH and Scn publicly. Many of them -in fact, MOST of them- KNOW that I am right about my analysis and assertions, but they prefer to handle it “back-doors” , and sweep it all under the rug to “protect” the “reputation” of Scn and LRH as if they had any left ; they DON’T.
They chose to ignore the pain of all that had been wronged and treated with harsh injustice. For them, “reputation” (“protection” of) was more important than fostering Human Rights , and the redress of past wrongs.
Under this scenario, I decided to change my mind about it all , and desist in my goal to rehabilitate and reform Scn as it is just too booby-trapped anyway. I gave them (the KSWs) the chance to change, but you all refused to even inspect anything I begged you to inspect. I attempted to unite every different group in the Field, here is the evidence :
https://backincomm.wordpress.com/2015/03/14/on-human-rights-and-fundamentalism/
The net result ? Most KSW supporters just kept on holding on to their fixed ideas , violating right and left, the Freedom of Speech right ; ignoring the pain caused by Scn’s practice of its “Ethics” Codes WHILE LRH was still alive handling the comm lines ; and by failing to support endeavors (such as the HCOB doc) that were in favor of ridding Scn of its cultish aspect.
So now, I , Peter Torres, WILL make sure that every human being alive Knows about your destructive cultish attitude towards Freedom of Thought, Freedom of Speech, and Free Will. I promise you ALL, that within a year’s time, you’ll find absolutely NO new public to “service” , and that your practices will die, together with the destructive cult you support.
Make no mistake of my ability to do so.
Dear UTRs, “Look and don’t listen”. Read every blog you can ; pro and anti equally. Inspect every part of Scn in a totally new unit of time , w/out vias, w/out prejudgments. Read everything you can about the legal history of Scn. Read every governmental report about it. Don’t just buy that those were only the actions of “SPs”. Read the “Anderson Report” , “The Foster Report” , and all others. Read the official papers, the court papers of the “Snow white operation”. Read the real story behind the legal battle between the CofS and Time’s Magazine, not the altered story that the DM cleverly told you. The Church LOST that battle. The Church LOST the battle against the FDA. Read the incredible researched book, “A Piece of the Blue Sky” by John Atack. Watch Steven Hassan’s videos on YouTube about Scn. Do not close your mind to looking at all possible angles.
This is your life ; you are the masters of it ; you have the power within you to flourish and prosper in life, w/out needing the help or approval of LRH. You won’t lose your eternity nor your chance at spiritual salvation. That lies entirely within your control. Thought is the only liberating and causative agent in life ; you can learn to control it and direct it towards your survival and happiness. You are as perfect as you care to believe. You are special and unique just in your current state of case. Do not let anyone get you to believe otherwise. The route out is not one but many, as each route out is unique to you, and not universal. You can make it, you WILL make it , if you just learn to trust in the best friend that you will ever have : YOURSELF.
Merry Christmas to you all. May all the great spiritual leaders that have roamed this Earth guide each one of you into the greatest of the adventures of them all : Self-discovery and Self-mastery. May their wisdom guide you all.
Peter Torres
Hi thetaclear,, Thank you Peter for your post. Always Love, Ann
That was a great piece, Peter, every word. It addressed a long-standing question I’ve had about whether scientology can be “cleaned up” and made into an intelligent system that can thrive in a climate of intellectual analysis and good will. Apparently it can’t for the reasons you describe. In reading your statement it occurred to me Hubbard left out two indispensable pieces of knowledge. 1. He forever talked about making man “free” but he never defined in exact terms what that “freedom” is. 2. What constitutes a person’s “case” as apart from their intrinsic nature? Are we to assume anything less than perfection is “case”? If so what is a perfect being?
I think scientology, like the great OZ, is a grand illusion that requires the man behind the curtain to remain hidden. Perhaps those intractable KSW types know this and that’s why they wanted no part of what you were selling. An old sage once said there are two types of people in this world, those who want to know and those who want to believe.
Roger : “That was a great piece, Peter, every word.”
Peter : Thanks, dear Roger ; most kind.
Roger : “It addressed a long-standing question I’ve had about whether scientology can be “cleaned up” and made into an intelligent system that can thrive in a climate of intellectual analysis and good will. Apparently it can’t for the reasons you describe.”
Peter : Yes, it is too booby-trapped because it is made of a mixture of truths, half-truths, assumptions, and falsities ; and only a very trained mind can walk down that labyrinth uncanny, otherwise only entrapment ensues. When too much “cleaning up” needs to occur at anything, it is sometimes better to just start it all from scratch. That’s what I’ve been doing these past months.
Roger : “In reading your statement it occurred to me Hubbard left out two indispensable pieces of knowledge. 1. He forever talked about making man “free” but he never defined in exact terms what that “freedom” is.”
Peter : Yes, he never did clearly, even if he did managed to utter some non-understandable(s) about it like, “Lots of Space and the ability to use it” (1952) , and “Existence w/out barriers” (1961). For me, Freedom is, “Total confidence in our postulates” ; an unshakable Faith in ourselves. One would be playing the game called Life, instead of Life playing us. In that state with would have an unending interest and an abundance of games ; the “Spirit of Play” rehabilitated.
Roger : “2. What constitutes a person’s “case” as apart from their intrinsic nature? Are we to assume anything less than perfection is “case”? If so what is a perfect being?”
Peter : “Case” is an invention to establish a route to follow. For me, the only real case comes from Fear. “Case” is a state of decreased “Self-confidence” , and lack of Faith. “Case” is only subjective and not real. It is that idea one is not willing to change, or feel unable to do so. It is that unrecognized “thought” that is making you less, but which you are creating everyday , regardless.
Perfection? Uhm , it sounds like an introverting goal. There is no life in “perfection” , no beauty, only the promise of eternal boredom, for only in continual growth can interest be kept alive ; and something that grows continually is never perfect.
Roger : “I think scientology, like the great OZ, is a grand illusion that re quires the man behind the curtain to remain hidden.”
Peter : Yes , I agree. Scn is the route into denial of self ; a route into decreased self-confidence and increased dependency ; a route towards complexities and the introduction of arbitraries that only serve to introvert and decrease confront of life and livingness.
Roger : “Perhaps those intractable KSW types know this and that’s why they wanted no part of what you were selling. An old sage once said there are two types of people in this world, those who want to know and those who want to believe.”
Peter : A VERY applicable quote indeed!!! Those KSWs abandoned their own thoughts, and substituted them all for LRH’s ; the death of consciousness in itself.
Have a very merry Christmas, dear Roger, you and your beloved family. May this new year bring you many interesting revelations.
Peter
Sorry, it should have read,
“…and only a very trained mind can walk down that labyrinth unscathed (not “uncanny”) , otherwise only entrapment ensues.”
Hi thetaclear, Thank you from my heart for your wise and illuminating post. I have archived it so I can go over the parts whenever I want. Hope to see you in 2016. You are one of my anchors.Love, Ann
Be careful Theta Clear, you might spontaneously combust! Or turn into Lucifer? You are a devil – Jeez!
Well, on that we have no disagreements at all ; I am a devil indeed !!!
:-)))
Hi Theta Clear, Yup you are the devil alright for those that refuse to see the Dawn.With Love, Annie.