It’s Saturday. Yay for Terra Cognita!
The Scientology Committee of Evidence
The Committee of Evidence—Comm Ev for short—is one of the chief instruments the Church of Scientology uses to administer justice. Over the years, this court-martial-like hearing has changed from a method of gathering facts and evidence to something more sinister. Nine times out of time, the outcome is a foregone conclusion, played out for show rather than in the interest of fairness and justice.
For many church members, there is little more frightening than being called before a Committee of Evidence. As every Scientologist knows, the Comm Ev is the first step toward being declared a Suppressive Person. And being disconnected from all of one’s family and friends.
I attended the first Comm Ev called on me. I blew off the second, choosing not to participate in the farcical dog and pony show they’d become (if they’d ever been anything else).
I’m a Cockroach? Nooo!
Imagine being called on the phone one day and told to show up at superior court next Tuesday at 10 A. M. You were being tried. No explanation of why. No mention of evidence, suggestion of proof, or eyewitnesses. Nothing in writing. Just a phone call to show up. “Everything will become clear,” you’re told. “Just show up.”
That in a nutshell is the Scientology justice system. Pretty Kafka-like, eh?
The Bill of Particulars
Per HCOPL 7 September 1963, Committees of Evidence, Scientology Jurisprudence, Administration of, a committee of evidence is “A fact-finding body composed of impartial persons properly convened by a convening authority which hears evidence from persons it calls before it, arrives at a finding and makes a full report and recommendation to its convening authority for his or her action.”
The Bill of Particulars shall list “(1) the chairman, secretary and members of the committee, (2) the interested party or parties, (3) the matter to be heard and a summary of data to hand.”
Every interested party must be given a copy of the Bill of Particulars. Per LRH, “a copy of it is furnished to each person whose name appears in it…” Not only is this policy fair and just, it’s commonsensical. Outside the church, each side in a lawsuit or trial must be given copies of all subpoenas, evidence, and motions—pretty much anything related to the case. Not so in Scientology anymore.
The church no longer issues Bill of Particulars to its participants. How do I know this? I argued for three months for a copy of the Bill to my second Comm Ev. All to no avail. I was told that providing me with a copy was “out security.” When I presented them with the above referenced HCOPL stating that copies must be provided to all interested parties, I was told there was other policy that superseded this one. Of course, they couldn’t show me this policy. Revealing such policy was “confidential” and “out security.”
When I asked why the Comm Ev had been convened, I was told to just show up and it would all become clear.
Evidence?
Most “evidence” in Scientology is written up in the form Knowledge Reports. Just like with the Bill of Particulars, copies of all KRs are supposed to be provided to every person for whom it was written. Providing everyone with a copy is not only LRH policy, it’s the right thing to do. Once again, this is no longer the case in Scientology. How do I know this?
During the same time I argued for a copy of the Bill of Particulars for my Comm Ev, I asked for copies of all the KRs on which it was based. Since I’d committed no crimes, I didn’t know exactly why the committee had been convened. Not surprisingly, I was told that providing me with copies was “out security.” I asked how mailing hundreds of boxes of PC folders around the world every week was not “out security,” while mailing me a half dozen sheets of paper was. “It just is,” was the answer. I asked them to e-mail everything. They refused. When I said I would come in and personally pick up all the copies of the KRs, I was reminded again of the “security” issue and told that everything would be revealed at the Comm Ev.
When I quoted the LRH policy stating that it was required that I receive copies of all my KRs, I was told that there was other policy that superseded the one I’d referenced. When I asked for the newer PL, I was told to just show up at the Comm Ev.
Impartial Persons?
Perhaps the most biased people in Scientology are committee of evidence members and their convening authorities. Two types of staff seem to serve on these committees: a) young, sycophant-type members under the control of domineering seniors, and b) longtime, hardcore staff with Kool Aid leaking out of their every pore.
Comm Evs are rarely, if ever, called to gather evidence. Almost never will the committee investigate or follow up on claims by witnesses or interested parties. Internal reports from senior staff and the Department of Ethics are always considered honest, accurate, and the last word. All other reports are considered suspect. The most outrageous lies are regularly accepted as truth by committee members.
There is no impartiality in a Scientology justice action.
Witnesses
Common sense dictates that interested parties be allowed to call witnesses to a Comm Ev in his or her defense. What could be more American, right? Cults play by their own rules. So much for the 5th and 6th amendments.
I asked that I be showed the Bill of Particulars and copies of the KRs on which the Comm Ev was based so I would know whom, if anyone, to ask to attend as a witness. Again, I was told this wasn’t necessary. Just show up. Big surprise.
Defense?
Trying to defend oneself at a Comm Ev is not only an exercise in futility, speaking out is a sure way to increase the penalties one is assured of receiving after being found guilty. And one will be found guilty. Everyone called before a Scientology Comm Ev is guilty. Why else would one have been convened?
Staff members are especially susceptible to this misuse of authority. Smart ones learn early-on to accept whatever’s presented and take their lumps. As the Borg in Star Trek were so fond of saying, “Resistance is futile.”
In all my years associated with the church, I can’t remember anyone ever being found innocent and absolved by a Committee of Evidence. Which isn’t to say this unlikely scenario hasn’t happened. I’ve just never heard of it.
Last Words
The Scientology Committee of Evidence is a sham, staged only to control church members and make them believe a semblance of justice still exists within their church.
Still not Declared,
Terra Cognita
I had a comm ev called on me once by DM. An auditor at Flag had red tagged a pc and she was being disciplined. David Miscavige was overseeing the case. Because I had CSd this auditor a few years before that, I was accused of improperly training her because she caused this red tag. Other CSes who had CSED her were also named. No matter how minimal our contact was with this auditor and what correction we had given her, we were all charged. We could have all lost our certificates over this. Luckily the comm ev went on too long and had to be cancelled per policy. This was fortunate as because DM ordered the comm ev, we most certainly would have been found guilty with retraining at the very least.
To give an example that everyone can think with, this would be like being accused with not arresting someone who had once driven through your town because they were later caught speeding in another town. Insane.
Everything which you relay in this post about the Scientology Comm Ev is absolutely 100% true. In my Comm Ev they admitted that I was innocent on EVERY charge but instead of dropping the falsely imposed SP declare based on reading this website, they decided that they wouldn’t drop the admittedly squirrel justice until I did an amends project, got a sec check at my expense, lowers conditions etc within 3 months – threats included “or our squirrel SP declare on you will stand and we’ll make up why later based on some LRH advice or reference that you aren’t privy too.”
Yep, sounds like someone they, in the same document, found innocent on every charge. They made an enemy for life that day.
Holy cr@p, Michael Winters!
Comm Ev’s are pre-ordained. The cult follows their own policies only when it expedites their agenda. I was comm eved and the scumbags running the comm ev ignored specific policy clearly stated in the Hco Pl on Comm Ev’s. First of all the MAA refused to give me the Bill of Particulars. She refused to show me the KR’s submitted to the committee. The most egregious act was their attempt to do an ethics interview(interrogation) prior to Comm Ev which is specifically prohibited in the policy letter. When I called them on it they just ignored it. I went ahead with Comm Ev just for the experience of it. I never got the findings however every zealot I knew disconnected from me. I don’t miss any of them. They weren’t able to mess up any relationships family and others that mattered to me.
I might have you beat. I was offlines for 4 years and was declared an SP by an org I have never been onlines at, all without so much as a phone call. The issue just turned up at my local org and people were called in to disconnect including family, spouse, etc. Lost my job, a ton of money that would have come out of that, and essentially a couple family members, and a host of fairweather friends. I spent nearly 3 months sending letters requesting a Comm Ev to clear my name. All while being kicked out of my own home because other Scientologists were living there. So I had to sleep on a friend’s couch.
Then comes time for the Comm Ev, in LA, discovered the whole thing was based on 2 KR’s, and hearsay Things that shouldn’t be which the INspections officer never confronted me on, but assumed it was true. No ethics gradients, no phone calls. 4 years removed, life turned upside down overnight.
Then in their Comm Ev, they admit that the SP Declare was squirrel and they found me innocent on every charge levied against me (the SP Declare charges were the same as the ones in the Comm Ev). The Recommendations thought stated something entirely different. It was threatening, included an amends project, doing a Sec Check at an SO Org, lower conditions, etc all within 3 months or they wouldn’t lift their squirrel SP Declare. I knew then that no matter what policy I followed, they had their own and I wasn’t privy to it.
And then, all of the things I was accused of doing, I started doing – which was to read this and (formerly Marty’s website, before they got to him) to discover THEIR crimes. They made an enemy, deliberately it seems. And so they have another. Too bad for them I kept all of these documents (and more) and have video and audio of their squirrel justice. Will I ever release it? Maybe.
One thing’s for sure, the greatest day of my life was when I walked away for good. Since then I have found REAL friends. And my relationship with my family not brainwashed has actually never been better. Now that I have disconnected from them and continually false data strip myself away from their brainwashed think about people, mankind and the world at large, I’ve actually been much happier. People aren’t just “raw meat”, “wogs” or “DBs” … people are quite interesting. I think I advanced spiritually more so getting out of Scientology than I ever did paying for 20k-30k chunks of rudiments and sec checking (I’ve paid over 10k just for rudiments!!). What a total wasted of money. Rip off.
And I hope everyday I will wake up and hear about that scum Miscavige being arrested or fleeing the country or worse. I hold little ill will toward his robots, but they are dead to me. I’d never trust them without seeing real ethics change. Ironic eh? =)
Dictatorship in another form.
Haha – I had a comm ev done on me over the phone. Apparently some of the powers that be didn’t want me declared because I never was. All I heard of the whole thing was blah blah blah blah blah, translated to la la la la la by me. 😉
Okay, so with all the testimonies with the same theme. Scientology is a cult and has been violating human civil rights. Also the stories of children being used in labor camps and not given proper education to function outside $cn walls. There has to be a champion lawyer willing to cause some much heat on the cult there will be no where to run. And is it not tax evasion if you skip town and not pay the real estate taxes, a felony on the federal level. This has to stop, some one has to have the cajones to bring them down for good. What about the ACLU where are they will this is going on. Just sayin………
It seems that the ACLU is too busy chasing the latest catch phrase and over looking true injustices. These people need a hero with, as you say, the cajones to look for real justice. It seems that they would rather pick not who needs a hand, as many of their *clients* are well publicized and the lawyers with some connection to their cause will be legion.
TO put it bluntly, the ACLU is a bunch of fill up the news with the stories of the *pathetic* injustice. They tend to not look seriously for the real injustice happening right in front of their eyes.
The ACLU doesn’t generally go after private organizations. They concentrate on constitutional violations by the government. If you want a non-profit to go after Scientology for their crimes, there are others better suited.
Jill the ACLU goes after the only entity that can really violate civil rights. The government. They specialize in a few of the Bill of Rights amendments. A private org cannot really violate those unless a person agrees to the violation.
This is for all but especially cs and Wynski, thanks for your insight. I agree with both of you I would hope some non-profit would stand with the people who have been assaulted verbally and physically by this loser cult. We will have commercials showing abused animals and starving children but nothing about “brainwashing and intimidation of individuals inside cults” this is a real thing. Mike and Leah have brought a storm upon this group but the pressure cannot be lifted this must lead to arrests and convictions I believe it will. D.M. is either going to hide and good luck with that with social media out here in the real world. And if some one gets offered a deal by prosecutors to testify against D.M. should look around him and ask “Who can I trust?” that will drive him bat crazy. Paranoia will set in and it will fester like a bad unclean cut does slowly painfully and eventually they cut off the limb….. are you ready to give your left nut for this David? My answer is no but please humor us some more. The righteous will prevail. My love for all who have suffered and maybe still suffering I may not have been in this cult. You have saved me from making that mistake and others as well and for that I thank all who have bared their soul to us many strangers I stand with you.
I appreciate how well the ACLU does in their lane.
I contribute to them monthly.
When I was in, Comm Evs were a political tool. I served on a comm eve where the interested party was a scumbag. He had taken business investor $ and used them for his personal Bridge. He was, at the time on Solo Nots. We reviewed the evidence and interviewed witnesses. He was clearly guilty but this wasn’t what Int mgmt wanted. So they reversed our findings. He was a Flag public and wasn’t to be found guilty since he was providing income to Flag and thereby to Int. So not only are the innocent found guilty the guilty are found innocent, if they are giving $ to the CoS. And screw the real injured parties. Ron said that man cannot be trusted with Justice and it seems the Sea Org can’t either.
TC, great article. I have not had any comm evs. I have has numerous B of I’s. They sometimes turned out ok. That was a long time ago.
I was com evved at Flag for supposedly violating the rules and accepting a public pc with psych history, who went home and killed himself. They were looking for a head on a pike. I have no specific memory of the whole deal, just that when one of the senior S.O staff was questioning me, alone, in his office.. and I told my story with docs to back up … or at least data as to where to find the docs.. I emerged innocent of all charges. “Somebody” was looking out for me that day. Whew
Just read the Tampa Bay Times this morning, and in the Local section there’s a story about 3 seats up for election on the Clearwater Downtown Developement Board. Seven members with three up for election. One is already a Scientologist and the three that are running are all Scientologists. They could take the majority of the committee. Miscavige already went at it with the city over a small piece of land he wanted, and lost. He took his toys and went home! They own $227 million in real estate in Clearwater either through the “church” or shell companies. Interesting reading. Look it up on line.
During World War II, any educated white man with a pulse and no significant criminal record, who could stand up while wearing a uniform, could become an officer in the U.S. armed forces and probably remain one “for the duration of hostilities” as the phrase was. In fact it was almost impossible to mess up badly enough to be removed from the service — there was always SOME job available during what was for the Navy a multiple-ocean war. Because he met these minimum qualifications, and was glibly intelligent, and projected self-confidence, Hubbard became a naval junior officer and was able finally to grasp for the fighting-sailor personal fantasies he had harbored since boyhood, as the son of a Navy career officer (a mundane “desk sailor” who served in back-office payroll and supply-officer functions, dully but faithfully, for 33 years.)
We all know a little or a lot about LRH’s disastrous wartime naval career, not to mention the increasingly grotesque lies that he and later CoS told fabricated: how they told the story of his sailor’s life, and told it wrong. Maybe we remember the damning officer rating that Lieutenant Hubbard received after the inquiry into his accidental attack on some Mexican islands (and their Mexican garrison) in 1943, while in command of the sub chaser USS PC-815: “Consider this officer lacking in the essential qualities of judgment, leadership, and cooperation…. Not considered qualified for command or promotion at this time. Recommend duty on a large vessel where he can be properly supervised.” He was relieved of command of his little ship, and never got another one.
What I find interesting, because so many of LRH’s pet manias in Dianetics or Scientology clearly trace back to his early experiences and all represent “working on his own case,” is his experience defending himself for the Coronado Islands screw-up mentioned above, in which he was the subject of a “Board of Investigation.” In the naval justice system of that era, a Board of Investigation was a hearing into an officer’s conduct of duty that was at a lower level than a “Court of Inquiry,” which was the equivalent of a military court-martial — something reserved for accusations of criminal behavior (in the military context). A three-officer panel would be appointed by a “convening authority” (a senior officer) to call witnesses, gather facts and reports, and assign responsibility (or not) for some accident, like for example colliding with a civilian ship in a river, etc.)
I’m not going to do it, but probably some fanatic could have fun comparing the rules and regulations of a naval Board of Investigation in those days (the term itself is no longer used), and LRH’s design of a “Committee of Evidence,” which sounds similar. Needless to say, his humiliating 1943 B of I must have always loomed large in his secret thoughts, so that he felt a need to replicate it as part of working on his own case. And as we know, LRH was a great one for repurposing and combining other people’s ideas under new names and blithely presenting them as ingenious systems of his own creation. It was a genuinely terrific skill he had.
I’m also going to go on record here, finally, as saying that I think LRH’s obsession with the “Loyal Officer” concept goes back to his little-examined relationship with his executive officer (second in command) aboard the USS PC-815, which LRH had earlier in 1943 commanded in a frantic attack on a Japanese submarine (that wasn’t there, or within a thousand miles of there) near the mouth of the Columbia River off the coast of Oregon. That man was Lieutenant (Junior Grade) Thomas Moulton, who seems to have been utterly enthralled by Hubbard’s tales like many another person would be, and who testified loyally (and no doubt sincerely) in Hubbard’s favor after the Oregon screw-up that, yes sir, there really was a Japanese sub out there, and we destroyed it, sir! Moulton, by then an old man with no other connection to the CoS that I’m aware of, was still around forty years later to testify under oath to Hubbard’s brilliance and heroism as a WWII naval officer, during the Gerry Armstrong trial in California in 1984.
A Loyal Officer indeed!
(P.S.: For those who don’t remember, “Snake” Thompson was an intellectual U.S. Navy officer whom LRH met as a young boy, who taught him some rudiments of psychology and, I believe, hypnosis, during a long, slow, Pacific sea voyage from somewhere to somewhere else. LRH would put these early lessons to much use in the future.)
Nice narration. Certainly joins a few dots and crosses a few Ts. TKU
hi Mike on a slightly digfferent point
im so intrigued by this cult so ive just starting reading leah book and ordered mr miscavige book and andrew morton
https://www.today.com/news/church-scientology-statement-wbna22658115
Just read this rebutal from COS and how rite was mr morton
Andy
“Revealing such policy was “confidential” and “out security.””. I believe in that one sentence the Church being dead is encapsulated more thoroughly than anything else. The one “stable datum” you had as public was that policy was protective, and since scientology “was good” then sensible policy was the fallback position that ensured you were safe as scientologist as long as you didn’t try and wreck everything in sight. If I had had any doubts at all about my decision to leave in 2009 (I didn’t actually) – they would have evaporated upon my request to have a Comm Ev or at least see my SP declare. OSA made sure the plants they sent to spy on me saw it (Andy Hutton and Dave Lockey). But not me. Policy now is whatever COB says, or even now, whatever they want it to be at the time.
Chaplain court? Much the same.
In my humble opinion, the problem with Ronny Hubbaldo was that he was never able to figure out whether he was God or Lucifer.
But I can think of at least two good things that have come out
1) A bunch of so called SP’s that will never again fall, for the type of BS they had to put up with in Scientology and hopefully will teach others of such.
2) His so called Scientology BS will self destruct.
That is a true injustice no matter who practices it! Salem witch trials were just that civilized.
Wow! I’ve just re-read everything. Of all the threads ever contributed to on this blog – this subject has unanimous agreement as to the subject under discussion. I could even go as far to suggest all ex staff/Scios have been victimised to some degree by this travesty or at least personally known people who has and all never ins have finally something they can all see plain as day with Scientology’s behaviour. The perfect example of Scientology Policy in action and the abuses that it incites.
Yes Yawn, it surprised me so many with similar stories. This is the LRH Gaslighting at his best. Just understanding that one term when I was a kid would have kept me out of an awful lot of trouble. My father could have taken me to the movie of same title instead of Hush hush sweet char…..
Love me some, Terra Cognita! What are your thoughts on the non-existent RPF? True? False? Rumor?
As awful as the ethics and justice system is when applied exactly as written in policy, the current Church version is truly ridiculous… it is as squirrel as hell by their own policy’s definition.
Many people ( staff and public ) called it: Kangaroo court.
Oh yes; I was called before the “Kangaroo Court” myself – and called them out as such. The head guy called me an “idiot”. Nice huh! No copy of the Bill of Particulars; a couple (3) of ridiculous kr’s (of which I had never received a copy of any of them.) Plus they had all been written AFTER my Committee of Evidence was called. Then, I was sent an email by a friend who received it from another good friend, warning them that I was getting ready to be Declared and to disconnect from me; even before I was declared. Then another “good Scientology Friend (oxymoron) there are really, no friends in Scientology, just cult-associates, called to tell me she had heard via a family member who was pulled in by OSA, that I was Declared. I never heard directly from anyone; never received a Declare Order, just every person I knew stopped talking to me and ran whenever they saw me in Downtown Clearwater. No matter what PL’s or HCOB’s I produced they ignored. No LRH only Davey Miscabbage tech is used anymore.
LRH was a pro at Gas lighting.
Everyone called before a Scientology Comm Ev is guilty. Why else would one have been convened?
In Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago he describes the KGB’s arrest and “trial” of suspects also as a foregone conclusion. “You would not have been arrested if you weren’t guilty!”
That a “religious” organization has a justice system at all is beyond the pale. Everything about this cult is disgusting and inhumane…morally reprehensible.
But the peopple are super
Yes, you are right, as I’ve learned here on this blog from these awesome people and other resources. My comment was specifically judging and condemning the doctrine and the ideology of this cult that fosters the abhorrent behavior of its followers. I’m sad for the “people”..and hate the behavior.
As a Never-in, however, I sometimes find this is difficult to do when I watch and listen to what spews out of the fair gamers while on their squirrel hunts or witness individuals who make decisions to disconnect because of a skewed value system. And, before there are rebuttals, I totally understand the explanation of indoctrination, I get it..really, I do. My work with survivors of domestic violence has helped keep perspective. But, as I said, the difficulty comes from witnessing thru video footage or through stories shared here and on Aftermath, the appalling behaviors of members and learning of abuse. One particular squirrel hunting expedition I was disgusted by was Rinder’s ex-wife. That incident (dr’s office) was the most repellent incident and it resonates with me. It’s hard to erase that visual. She was ugly and viscous….and yes, I get it….she was trained to believe she was in the right to behave this way. I struggle with this because, at some point, I want to believe that every individual, at their core, has a foundation of basic morality. That, at some point, an individual’s personal conscience will over-rule and challenge. And, again, yes, I realize there exists a fear variable that may dictate their actions. We have history books and newspapers articles that reveal humans can be indoctrinated to hurt others. I’m not naive but, at the core, human beings have free will. But, again, can be lied to and manipulated. Seems like a never-ending cycle. This is where it can be challenging….breaking it down to all the variables to gain understanding. Rinder’s wife; however, was awful. I cannot speak for her charactor but I really hope, for her sake, that she has some redeeming qualities.
In my graduate work, I recall studying a specific psychological research project that, ultimately, because it was highly unethical, set the ethical standards for scientific research hence forth. You may know of it; however, this project required Test subject A to administer electrical shocks to Test subject B. Test subject A did not know that he/she was not really administering steadily increasing electrical shocks to Test subject B. They were told that the study was researching how much test subject B could withstand electrical shock before they said “stop”. In reality, it was a study to determine how long it took for Test subject A to willingly harm another before they, morally, refused to administer further pain. Researchers were trying to understand the holocaust and how human beings allowed themselves to brutalize others. Surprisingly, many test subjects administered the highest level of electrical shock. Others may have stopped after the first low dosage. Regardless, researchers made it clear that it was a choice. The ethical issue, of course, was the potential psychological trauma for those who believed they were harming others…and they did this for $50 participant fee.
With each new nugget of learning about this cult, this research project keeps popping into my head…
Anywhoo….I felt compelled to respond and to assure you, Cat Daddy, that I have the utmost compassion for those (excluding DM and Dom Cruise, of course lol!) still in the bubble and enormous pride for those who were brave enough to escape and embrace and/or alter their personal core values.
I Apologize for the length.
Clarify: Rinder’s EX-wife is who I am referring to above. His current wife is lovely! Nsorry for the typo…
Teen,
The long responses are often the best. That is because if someone has a philosophical point to make they state it fully enough to really excite the reader.
That study that you are referencing is one that I am familiar with. Thanks for bringing it up that’s a really good point.
Teen, you must keep in mind that ron modeled the Sea Org as a paramilitary organization based on his experience in the US Navy. The Comm Ev is a tremendously skewed version of a US military Court Martial, as messed up as the rest of the cherch policies.
Now, the military has good reasons to keep you in line, especially in time of war (i.e. desertion or aiding the enemy) but the Comm Ev is easily just a Kangaroo Court as others have said, especially in today’s cherch.
This link shows what you cannot do when you are under contract with the USG as a GI (government issue) and are subject to the rules of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice): https://www.thebalance.com/punitive-articles-of-the-ucmj-3356831
You can imagine where hubbard went with this info under his belt and a dislike for this experiences with negative outcomes with the Navy… another method of controlling his subjects, pubic and Sea Org alike, while committing, or having others commit, the very crimes the cherch is supposedly administering justice on others.
I have circumnavigated committees of evidence since 1970. Interested party (the accused) member and so on. Not one of them reflected a process of justice. Nada.
But earlier you received copies of reports, could bring someone with to assist you, were given the bill of particulars and the findings. You could appeal the findings as well. Even so, the findings were mostly predetermined.
Lately the predetermined part is the same, but the process is completely void of any reflection of their own policy covering this event. It is a complete circus.
The reports written that often result in the committee being called on you, are often solicited, as Cindy describes in her comment, are not copied to you.
One friend of mine attended a meeting of disgruntled Scientologists. He was reported via heresay and declared. Badaboom. Not other steps.
The reporting system is now pure BS. Before it was maybe diluted BS, but BS all the same.
Hubbard
Its about time someone finally compared Scientology to the Borg. I made that connection within minutes of watching Mike & Leah’s first episode.
After leaving Scientology some 25 years prior, the San Diego Org held a Comm Ev and decided against Declaring my mother (83) an SP. CMO PAC didn’t like that outcome so they made San Diego conduct ANOTHER Comm Ev and made sure they had the “correct outcome” that 2nd time. Scientologists stand by while other peoples families get choped up and say “not my problem”.
I was comm ev’d in 1979 at an org. I had left my husband and fled town with my 2 year old after being persuaded to come work part time for a mission where I would be an auditor and earn $10/hour! Woohoo! The HCO sec from the org called me at my friend’s house and informed me that I was being comm ev’d in the morning based on KRs written mostly by my husband. When I told him I wouldn’t be there, that it was actually physically impossible to even get there by then, and this was the first I had heard about it, he said he had sent it by mail. I told him that I had indeed received an envelope from the org that contained nothing and that if it isn’t written, it’s not true. Anyway, to my immense surprise, I was found not guilty, but my husband, who wasn’t even named in the comm ev, was found to be in a condition of treason. Haha. I recently ran into an ex scn at HowdyCon who I had known at the org. He told me that that person and the ethics officer who worked with him had since parted company with scientology. My ex husband is also out. I’ve never held it against anyone for their actions while involved with the cult. I’m mortified at how arrogant and obnoxious many of us were.
Great post !
Aghhhhhhh yes….. L Ron’s Hubbard’s laws of commotion and confusion
“For every piece of LRH tech ….
There is another opposite piece of tech”
It is standardlyv Applied when anyone reveals and exposes the truth about Con Man L R H, dictator David Miscavige and Scientology’s bamboozling Scam, criminality and insanity
The Scientology justice system
Where honest beings are suppressed
And insanity rules
The Comm Ev was NEVER more than a farcical kangaroo court. Almost anyone who fell into disfavor with the hierarchy – for any reason (be it real, contrived or merely imagined) was routinely found guilty as charged. This was happening back in the early 70’s, so like the rest of scamology the Comm Ev was yet another highfalutin sounding hoax.
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
― George Orwell, Animal Farm
“It had become usual to give Napoleon the Credit for every Successful achievement and every stroke of good fortune. You would often hear one hen remark to another, “Under the guidance of our leader, Comrade Napoleon, I have laid five eggs in six days” or two cows, enjoying a drink at the pool, would exclaim,
“thanks to the leadership of Comrade Napoleon, how excellent this water tastes!”…”
― George Orwell, Animal Farm
Actually, this reminds me more of 1984. The orginization has it’s own language, total control of resources and information, and an obsession with reeriting history. Nice to know LRH read something besides his own tripe.
Fahrenheit 451 is another great book you might like to read. It’s in the same vein as 1984.
I have read F451 several times since I was 14 or so. I’m about due again 🙂
That last, Ganesh, sounds very North Korean. 🙂 Isn’t it interesting how history continues to repeat itself?
Newton’s law of LRH tech.
“For every piece of LRH tech ….
There is another opposite piece of tech”
I asked for a comm ev during my very long ethics cycle in 2011, but they wouldn’t give it to me. Another red flag I noticed before leaving.
But but but I thought there were no hidden data lines in Scientology who could have lied to me about that? Not Hubbard himself as Terra already elegantly pointed out: https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientology-hidden-data-line/
It would be futile, of course, to point this out since they’d just it was written and thus true and not hidden. But it is hidden. You’re hiding it from me!! And where is hidingness on the tone scale anyway?
Assuming there is a hidden Order from Hubbard saying to hide the particulars. That means the real problem is that no one; and I’d wage that to this day; has ever gone and corrected Hubbard publicly facing policy. There is no asterisk saying we sometimes don’t give the particulars to the accused or simply removing the lie of that the accused will receive the particulars.
And as actual matter of fact we can go to the RTC website and see that when submitting a KR there is box that must be checked stating that you did in fact comply with policy x and send a copy to the accused. But yet I know more than one person in flesh who was KR’d by SO and never was allowed to receive a copy.
But this is just another aspect of the trap. The we keep those things that make us look fair and honest in a our publicly facing policy while anyone who’s been around the block a few times knows they are simply window dressing.
I wish to recant my previous statement.
The policy is as always 100% correct, There are no hidden data lines is not in error. Because you CAN”T hide data from a BEING!!! It’s not Hubbard or the church’s fault that not making a piece of paper with that data on it available to you causes you to hide the data from your own perception. STOP going into agreement with the physical universe already, pfffftt.
All you need to do is go up the bridge that will no longer be the case. Win WIN for everybody.
/sarcasm.
Beyond all that damning evidence of the essential injustice of the cult’s “justice system,” there’s also the fact that high-caste $cilons (i.e., those who are wealthy, famous and powerful) are treated completely differently than low-caste $cilons (i.e., everyone else).
High-caste $cilons are allowed to take the Donkey Masterson alternate course of cult justice, which is very much like how things are in Mexico, where you can avoid arrest and incarceration for just about any crime by ponying up enough money in bribes to make it disappear.
Even if you’re a true believing Ronbot who only drinks Kool-aid, the inequality of the cult’s “injustice” system should give one serious pause because it’s completely off-policy and any attempts to cite Source (as TC attempted) won’t help you a bit; it’s all a done deal before you ever show up in cult court.
Who’s responsible for undermining the integrity of Elron’s internal system of justice? The same person who’s responsible for crashing key cult stats and destroying this faux religion’s public image so completely, lil davey the Super SP on $cn’s lines!
Yes all that you say is true, Terra Incognita. I have lived it. In my case there were no KR’s and they had no blackmail material from my pc folders, so they went and found all my friends and sent them a notice to send them KR’s on me and to look through their conversations with me to find disaffected comments from me etc. So many of these friends complied, and no one told me a word about it. I ran into one such friend at the bank and he acted so nervous and couldn’t look at me and kept having me look at the sky to divert my attention. I asked him what was wrong etc. He said nothing. Later I found that he and many others had been solicited for KR’s on me as they were trying to dig up dirt with which to declare me. And it was all done without a Com Ev at all. So Terra, if you had two Com Evs, why are not not declared? That is what yo say the EP of most Com Evs is? Are you declared but don’t know it as in they never sent you a copy of the goldenrod? Ask any friends who still talk to you, to go in and request to read your Declare Order. Then you’ll know if you’re declared.
I personally think that Teresa’s Declare is not public because it would be immediately be posted on this blog and would give further credence to the truth that there is no current justice in the Church. The only difference between Scientology Justice and Nazi or Soviet justice is that Scn has not yet built ovens to dispose of the bodies. They all have gulags or concentration camps. I think that any possibility of the RPF no longer being used is that it required justice actions to be sent there. Perhaps just about anyone can send you to the hole without recourse.
Goddamn auto correct. It changed Terra’s name to Teresa.
Harpoona,
OUCH! The truth, the Truth, it hurts it does.
Harpoona Frittata “Cult court” now that is a keeper. “… it’s all a done deal before you ever show up in cult court.” Elron’s “justice system” reeks of the economy that rubber stamps and figureheads of authority provide.
As for the very real Scientology caste system, Orwell captured the essence of it in a slogan from “Animal Farm” – “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
And “No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?”
― George Orwell, Animal Farm
“Who’s responsible for undermining the integrity of Elron’s internal system of justice?” LMAO Harpoona. Hubbard did that. Also, the MAJOR stats were crashing starting in ’76. By ’80 (LONG brfore DM took control of scamology) new inflow into scamology was toast) Little Davie simply made more miserable for everyone as the ship was sinking.
I’m innocent I tell ya
What are your crimes?!?
I’ve always wanted to say that.
Ethics will decide if you’re innocent or not.
The decision has already been made even before you’re sent there… ethics = guilty. The Scientology way is standard and only varies for money or celebrity, but even that is touchy stuff. Miscavige knows everyone is guilty, he just let’s people buy their way into his good but temporary graces. Then he fucks them up, he has to, because Scientology is based upon lies, space cootie tech guarantees it! Fries with that order?
I worked in a Class IV org where the local management was very fond of Scientology “Ethics” procedures. In 7 years at that org, I remember adding them up. They rained on me. I had 23 Comm Evs in 7 years. I think it might be a Class IV org world record. They were also very much like what you read in this article. Then I went to the SO, and not so many. 25 years and maybe 10 comm evs as an interested party, and another 10 as a member.
The first Comm Ev that I was a member on was at ASHO in 1973. The Interested Party was a field Class VIII, Roger Sorkin. We had a handful of KRs. I was the Secretary. We called Roger in, talked it all over, everything he told us made sense, we decided he was innocent of all charges, I wrote the findings up and submitted it to Jack Dirmann, who was the Director of Inspection and Reports.
Jack got with me very soon after with my paperwork; livid. His viewpoint was, basically, “WTF!!!”. For the next 15 minutes I was lectured on my low confront of evil, and educated how Roger was a “complete 1.1; not to be trusted” and that I was to reconvene the Comm Ev that night (these things were always done after 11:00 pm so as to “not interfere with production”) and bring back “Guilty” on all charges.
Now, I’d like to report that the other members and myself held our ground, but we didn’t. We pronounced him Guilty and then our recommendations that he do amends was revised to have his certs canceled. I tried for years to track him down to apologize to him. At this moment, I don’t remember being successful. I heard that he later married Merrill Mayo after she had left the Church. I just tried reaching him through one of the people finder services and the numbers that I got back aren’t good anymore. If anyone knows how to reach him, I’d love to talk with him again.
25 Comm Evs in 7 years! Wow, you were busy… geezers.
Hey, the ghosts of Scientology past are just something we have to live with I guess. There’re are some people I’d like to say sorry to as well while I guzzled the kool aid.
23 comm evs in 7 years – laughter! I was never that involved on staff so I never got a comm ev, but I did get kicked out of Sunday School for being too rambunctious or something.
Dan you were Portland Org staff in 1974. And still there Nov ’77 when I joined SO. Are you saying you were ASHO prior to ’74? Jack Dirmann put me on post as S/MAA at AOLA early ’82. Not sure where he got his ‘policies’ from…
I was at ASHO as an outer org trainee doing a big fat ethics officer course from October 1973 to April 1974. I did the Primary Rundown and the ethics course at that time. I interned at ASHO and at GOWW doing “ethics” actions and “justice” procedures. I still think Jack was a good guy, but too much like too many off us, too often: too willing to comply and did not stop to think things over too well before doing so. And giving up self-consciousness for “the good of the group”.
Dan: There’s another way to look at your actions in retrospect: You did him a favor.
I, too, was comm eved, found not guilty on the basis of actual facts. Another comm ev was then convened and the “witness” suddenly reversed his testimony and, VOILA’!, I was guilty. Just another tool of control.
For as “Orwellian, Machiavellian,” and “Kafkaesque” Scientology maybe, what’s more amazing is how such a mediocre SciFi writer was able to co-op such great literary pretensions into his own opus!
How many ways do we have to prove that there is no justice system in Scientology. It’s all “did you follow orders exactly to the letter?” and “Was the outcome as ordered?” There’s no allowance for orders which could NEVER obtain the ordered outcome. You, as the “point of the spear”, are always going to be punished if it goes pear-shaped. And if the orders were patently illegal, the real world’s justice system won’t make allowances if you were just following orders and your legal defense will be hamstrung by the Scientology “experts” as was done to the folks from the GO who participated in the “Snow White caper”.– as if it was just a harmless prank, not a determined attempt to undermine the society which was enlightened enough to allow Scientology the freedom it enjoyed … and abused at every turn; Even becoming a “vexatious litigant” — by design: the lawsuit is used not to win, but to harass and destroy those who management feel are possible threats to the money machine.
$cientology has no regard for the very systems that allow them to operate pretty much as they wish, requiring only a token appearance of being a religion.
You “might” be in the cult of scientology IF………
You, and everyone around you, gets a lump of coal for Christmas ……..and the COB gets a New Lamborghini !
I could be wrong on this as it’s been many years ago, but from understanding at the time, you, per policy, were supposed to get a Com-Eve before being declared an SP. That never happened with me.
For quite some time now Comm Evs are merely a few people from the ethics department sitting around a table giggling at and being outraged at the “overts” you have disclosed in your oh-so-secret confessional sessions.
If you have money, they pull you in and try to get it from you.
If you don’t have money they just write up a declare but don’t bother to send it to you.
If you have money and you won’t come in to give it to them, then they REALLY declare you…that is the ultimate sin.
You are correct SP. Today it is as Terra said, a total sham. It is a pretend justice ‘system’. It is like OT8, a pretend OT level. It is like the dream of ‘ we are going to clear the planet. A pretend dream. Like the Ideal Org program, a pretend expansion program that handles all expansion problem.
The committee of evidence is just one more thing that bears no resemblance to the stated policies or possibly the earliest original intent.
Dear TC,
I agree with your assessment. Regarding the Garcia’s Arbitration, ordered through a civil court, I have 2 thoughts:
If the judge does allow the Garcia request for a Court Recorder, plus require a signed statement of each Arbiter that they have abided by his instructions, then it will show he IS interested in Civil justice. Otherwise he will be ducking out of the case and we know the end results, as per TC’s post today.
Assuming the relief is granted in full, the members in good standing may as well kiss their a**es good by. They are damned either way. If they lie under oath to protect the cherch then the Garcia’s will patiently wait until the cherch is dissolved to come after them with perjury charges (a felony) and a suit for full restoration of the Garcia’s monies. If they judge evenly and decide for the Garcia’s then their com-ev is guaranteed.
I believe it was Jefferson Hawkins who described a Comm Ev as: “A military court martial with the good bits removed.”
+1 Agreed.
No Comm Ev story for me but I had firsthand experience with the UCMJ. A rebel back then,I refused to sign an Article 91, Insubordination to a noncommissioned officer for something really petty. Long story short, I refused to sign the damn thing and nothing happened after that. I’m sure there’s some entry in my record about the whole thing but I still got a good conduct medal after I did my full four year contract. That would never happen that way in the cherch.
Will the depths of this wickedness never end!
It will. The cult is slowly melting away.
“ARRRRRGH! — YOU CURSED BRAT! LOOK WHAT YOU’VE DONE! I’m MELTING! Melting! Oh — what a world, what a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness?! ARRRRRGH! I’m gone! I’m gone! I’m going!… [is fully melted]” – The Wizard of Oz
When I hear of ex scientology members, how they left and now how they are recovering, it is mind bogling that many of you are recovering from what was done to you. I am not a scientologist but have read and have heard many things. It is pitifully sad what I hear. All of you ex’s need to get together and file a class act as to what you know. It is very interesting to hear what all of you say, but heartfelt, tearful and sad also.
One could hardly not notice how similar this is to how the SS handled their investigations of “traitors” of the Third Reich. And let’s not forget the words of Lavrentiy Beria, who headed up Stalin’s secret police: “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.” I have to admit that it’s an effective way to handle your enemies. On the other hand, all totalitarian states eventually end in downfall. The COS is no exception.
Yes, the logic of better to shoot 10 innocent people than to let one criminal/traitor slip by. In the case of the SS and Stalin that could easily equate to whole communities. Pol Pot had a similar view. The Co$ isn’t all that far behind in that sort of “think.” It certainly is there at a socially disconnection level.
Sounds like guilty til proven innocent. and subject has neither the time or the ability to defend themselves.
About four years ago a couple of my ex-scientologist friends received a phone call from a Sea Org member notifying them that they are Interested Parties in a Comm Ev that would begin in 10 days. He ordered them to fly across country to attend their Comm Ev in 10 days. They asked him for something in writing, like a Bill of Particulars. He refused their request stating that all would be made clear to them at the Comm Ev.
Needless to say, they refused to attend their Comm Ev, which was held anyway. Nothing in writing was ever provided to them, even the Findings. However, based on these secret findings, some of their family members disconnected from them.
In the two Comm Evs I participated in (1980’s), the Interested Parties were provided with a Bill of Particulars and allowed to defend themselves. The outcome of both wasn’t just but at least the form was there.
Now they don’t even follow the Committee of Evidence policies. As an Interested Party, you are assumed guilty and have very little hope to prove your innocence. The East German Stasi would have found Scientology’s nefarious “justice” system quite acceptable.
The proceedings of Comm Evs are hidden from most Scientologists. They are only shown the Findings if they are somehow associated with the convicted parties so that they will disconnect from them. The Findings don’t leave the Ethics Officer’s (or MAA in the SO) office. So the proceedings are secret and the Findings are only revealed on a “need to know” basis.
I do not understand their fear of Ethics Orders like Comm-evs being made public. In the Apollo days, once some looney exec wrote the comm-ev, it was in everyone’s in basket as fast as mimeo could print it out. The public embarrassment was the start of the punishment as everyone knows you are going to be found guilty.
When Lois and I got comm-ev’d a few years back for attending my niece’s wedding (she is a never-in but is the daughter of my SP sister) and after an initial hearing where we pleaded guilty to all charges, they read us the Findings and Recommendations. I asked to look at it and then when the proceedings were finished walked out of the room with the issue in my hands. The Chairman ran out of the office and snatched it out of my hands. They wouldn’t allow us to leave with a copy of it.
I think their paranoia is purely from a PR perspective. They don’t want proof that they enforce disconnection. Some of my charges were along the lines of willingly being connected so a suppressive person or group. Their comm-ev would counter their denials of enforcing disconnection. It may also expose the fact that the cult actually lie. – Wouldn’t that be a shocker.
Precisely.
Really good point… they have to keep lying to cover up their other lies.
A couple of members, who had divorced years earlier, were called to a comm ev because the wife had sought help from the state to make the delinquent father pay up. Years of payments were owed. The comm ev decided only that the couple had to pay the cult some kind of “amends” for causing a public flap. No kidding! Typical, self-serving bullshit; no such thing as real justice whatsoever.
Wow. The true definition of the term “kangaroo court”. Like something right out of Alice in Wonderland. Undue process.
Boy, the military sure made a big impression on Ronny. He really overdid it in that regard. I’m surprised people in Sea Org don’t feel like they are in some Gilbert & Sullivan production.
I was once peripherally involved in a com ev – I was needed to move to a higher post but had no replacement. One of the staff was com-eved and the findings were that he would be my replacement. What justice was being served in that case?
Mimsey
Got comm ev’d myself back in the day. Impartial members! HA!!! Here I was, a people pleasing do gooder staff member and they decided I had committed a crime that cost the org some small amount of money. Talk about hammering someone with ethics. It was there and then that I decided this was bullshit and left to join the real world. Best decision I ever made.
I can vouch for this article.
I got comm eved for not following an illegal order while my stats were high and I’d boomed my area.
It was a real circus and violated every bit of Comm Ev policy and procedure. Didn’t matter to them guys.
…
In some ways this served to brainwash me MORE. I became more convinced that LRH policy was correct and the only flaw was that people didn’t know it or were asshats who refused to follow policy and would try to twist it to suit their power trips.
I became even more pro-LRH and less trustful of execs, The SO, and fellow staff members. It also helped to define me as one who fights back and can survive. (Comm Evs were a bit of a big deal, bit of a rarity)
It gave me street cred and I took away some strength and pride from having weathered it.
(I later went on to have various B of Is (Board of Investigation) a Court of Ethics, Ethics Hearing, Suspension, removal from post, non-enturbulation order, and lots of lower condition assignments. I was never a Roll-Over staff member)
……….
These days, looking back at all the injustice cycles, demeaning assignments, the lower conditions, the yelling, twisting nights of no sleep, tied in knots from the massive enturbulation of a Justice Cycle …etc
…. I think of how I was living through this, barely out of my teens … no one in my family knew what I was going through – they were leading normal lives eating mashed potatoes and worrying about getting the lawn mowed before it rained. I’d smile and make nice on a visit, and never dream of letting on.
It was all part of saving the planet.
You rock, secretfornow. Glad you are out.
Well said Terra, there is no real ‘justice’ in the scientology justice policies, only how to punish someone you don’t like, for doing something you don’t agree with.
The most ludicrous comm ev outcome I ever saw was in the ’80’s. The couple being comm ev’d had actually been found GUILTY of the crime of ‘drinking the juice of carrots every day’. Yes, apparently making and drinking fresh carrot juice every day was ‘weird’ and therefore a ‘crime’ in the twisted minds of the committee members. Drinking a concoction of powdered calcium, magnesium, and warm vinegar water every day is fine (for anyone who knows the Purification Rundown, they’ll know what I’m talking about), but fresh carrot juice? Nah…! (Oh the irony). Let’s see, what else can they comm ev people for… eating granola bars?
I’ve known two people who have been through recent comm evs in the past year. Know what the latest trend is? Staff will go through all of the social media accounts that they can find on you and PRINT out every single comment, “like”, picture, post, etc. that they think they can call out on you during the comm ev. They will even scan through who you are connected with on FB, instagram, etc. and ask you why you are connected with specific people- it’s absolutely absurd. When they ask you about anything they find you are only allowed to respond “guilty” or “not guilty” to your “crimes”.
The Com Ev, in my view, is another Hubbard sham. The Com Ev sounds good. It is a mirage of fairness.
When I quit the church, I was then kicked out. I was never informed of a Com Ev being convened. This was early 80s. I Believe I asked to be at my Com Ev. Never happened.
BTW, here how I blew Scientology:
I got dressed up in a 3 piece suit, because I was celibrating. Went down to the AOLA examiner. Waited in line, in a room, with other pcs waiting to go to examiner. I was jubilant. Other pcs looked at me with that Scientology-knowing look of, “wow, you must have had a good session”. I just smiled back.
I walk into examiners office and pick up the cans. The examiner looks at My VVGIS, looks at needle and says, “I’d like to indicate your needle is floating.”
At that point we were beaming at each other and she asks,” would you like to originate anything?”
I say yes,” I would like to formally resign from the church of Scientology”. I say this with a big smile and I give her my gripe.
Her demeanor was a study in valence shift. Her loving compassionate face transformed into a cognitive dissonant confusion. It was almost comical.
She then asked me to wait and speak to the ethics officer. I say I would.
I spent about two hrs with the ethics officer and told her about the injustice in Scientology and how I saw it as a business not a religion. I told her how they betrayed my wife and put her life in jeopardy.
I guess my argument went very well because I found out from a friend that the ethics officer blew Scientology after talking with me.
It is one of my prouder moments in life. Communicating the truth worked on this women.
Com Ev………………… it’s a Scientology BS pipe dream of justice.
That is real style Brian.
I got this letter from an old friend inside the bubble the other day:
“Im clear. its real and good. I cant really communicate because youre declared. But I will hope that you reconsider. never too late. There has been flubs before and it hasnt been easy for some of us, but what they say overall isnt true. Theres clean applicaton from bottom to top. So, much love from here bro!”
My response: “First I heard of being declared. You’d think someone would tell me, so much for clean application. Anyhow, so stoked!”
Shouldn’t I have had a comm ev? anyone? Truth be told, I was in no way going to compromise with my declaration that COB was SOB.
Telling people to F-off isn’t good style. Declaring people without telling them isn’t either. Good on ya anyhow.
Beats me why I break away from a beautiful sunday to talk here. Scientology still stirs my guts a tad, but not like a particular gargantuan soul dedicated to never seeing the light of day. let me tell you… about it… sometime.
Would like to hear more of your story, M8.
Thanks Spike. Willingness to listen is up there a thousand notches… Oh wait, no Totem pole bs! Anyhow, thanks so much because I honestly don’t have a friend that I know that has ever shown encouragement for me to speak on this subject, personally or publicly. Very hush hush. Ok, so if I do it’ll probably be over at Elephant Journal or… Who knows?, one day I might drop Mike a ghost post..
Sure, M8, or you could email me if you like. Mike can hook us up.
ABSOLUTELY agree. The Comm Ev, along with all perceived justice in Scioland is a sham.
I’ve been on the panel of a couple of comm ev’s and what struck me was the apathy of the “interested party.” It was a long time ago and I don’t remember the details but what did stick in my mind was the fact the conclusion to the situation was already decided well BEFORE the comm ev by the org exec’s. Scientology’s justice system is on par with the gestapo – not kidding, it is that bad!
Scientology, in the mind of the people who run it is a hell of lot more “holier than thou.”
RUN! Don’t walk…..to the nearest exit!
Still watching downtown KC, MO……No cos in sight!
Maybe they’re hiding. Or, they’re just too shy to show their faces.
My comment got lost so here it is again. I’ve never been comm ev’d but I knew someone who was, in 1974 / 75. He, a Sea Org member, had gone out-2d on his pregnant wife. The policies were followed, witnesses were called, the wife showed up in black widow’s weeds. Very dramatic. I think he got a slap on the wrist. Not sure what happened with their 2d after that.; I think they stayed together.
I was comm ev’ed in ’75 at the Honolulu mission. One charge was I had sex with a girl from the Org. Hey! She was hot and very up for it. BTW, my KR folder was an inch thick.
As I read each one, a calmness came over me. And I knew I would be leaving shortly. I mean, Scientology is looney tunes, in an evil way.
Your KR folder was only an inch thick?!!!! Geezers Dude you weren’t trying. I ended up with 3 ethics folders I think.
Had sex with willing girl hey? OMG! How could you live with the shame? Of course around about that time when I was in the army we NEVER did stuff like that!! Never I tell you!
Three ethics folders? You’re my hero. And it was still great hooking up with that girl from the Org! The kind of thing you don’t forget about.
That’s interesting, Old Surfer Dude, in Toronto org there was lots of 2d back and forth, it was not a comm ev’able offence. This was in 1973/74 mind you. Even a class IV auditor in his 20s having a ‘thing’ with a 15-year-old public person. Guess every org had their own policies … 🙂
What is a 2d?
2D is “the second dynamic”, sex and family relationships. Going “out-2D” means subverting that dynamic by cheating on a spouse, committing deviant sexual acts, flirting with someone while in the Sea Org, etc.
Wow – thankyou for the information.
I think it is anything to do with sex, like an extramarital relationship.
Close but not quite, that’s “out 2D.”
2D is the Second Dynamic. In Scientology lingo there are 8 subdivisions or urges to life called Dynamics. The 2nd is based on creation but takes in the sex act, raising of kids, the hubby or wife & family raising etc as distinct to say the 3rd Dynamic which is groups, like work groups, organisations, social clubs etc. Scientology is a 3rd Dynamic activity, mankind is the 4th and so on. It’s easy to google.
It will be interesting to see how ‘justice’ is carried out by those selected for the Garcia case. That will tell an interesting tale for all to watch being told.
Here the cherch will be showing the world how their ‘justice’ system is carried out by the ‘most ethical beings on the planet’!! And the corollary to that is ‘it will prove to the world’ just how effective El Cons tech is in providing a path for humanity to rise to greater heights through truth, fairness and the ethical handling of people. Rrrriiiight!
Yo Dave,
You have likely arrived at the point where You get to show the IRS why You are factually NOT A RELIGION good buddy. Unless You can derail the whole proceeding, it cannot end up any other way than a massive FAIL!
Say hi to Tom if he shows up at Your gala event. Hugs and handshakes all around for the numero dos and tres beings on the planet!
Years ago if you would look up Scientology on the internet, it was a cult NOT a religion.Since they now are a religion they get a tax relief for being that. No one in the area wishes to go to downtown Clearwater the way it use to be when Fort Harrision was a hotel, but Scientology came along and bought it and many if not almost all of the mom and pop motels along the route. I have watched on TV, read in newspapers about so many things, why isn’t the IRS, Social services coming down on this mass of destruction, ruining peoples lives, separating families. I’m sure Nicloe Kidman and Katie Holms left this organization to protect their children as at a certain age they are taken from their parents and whoever is teaching these children, and to do whatever they like with them. This is a very dark, dark religion. Tom Cruise and John Travolta were famous before scientology came into play, so scientology did nothing really. For David Miscaviage and Ron Hubbard to place themselves above a supreme God, you are nothing except insisting people follow you and your pathetic rules that do not fit society today. Do the right thing and admit all the wrongs that are in your organization today. It takes a real man to do that.
The answer to your “why” is simple: MONEY. Corruption backs the money. Blackmail is common. Lawsuits can – and are – drawn out for years. Not even the state and federal authorities are powerful or rich enough to last through the race.
Dear Terra:
When they told you that the HCOPL covering Comm Evs had been superseded by another policy, did you ask to see the reference? Did they tell you where this other policy might be found?
I’m interested in this too.
As staff in a Class V org, I was given illegal orders by SO members and was told that there were Flag Orders that made it OK, and that the FO’s were secret and only for SO members. I would fight back that this made a hidden data line. …this just lead to more trouble.
Reading your post reminds how thankful I am that I dropped acid, once.
They sent in a team to recruit for the SO. I’m a very outgoing person so they were laser focused on me. But, LSD saved me from a fate worse than death. And I’m grateful for that.
Yeah, I ran into that shit too. Especially when the SO ripped off our staff members or recruited straight out of the course room or HGC. The SO is trouble, pure and simple, they run Scientology and say what they fucking like to mere DBs like the rest of humanity. Scientology’s delusions of grandeur wears a black and white uniform and doesn’t sleep much.
They told him it was confidential Lol. So much for the forbidden hidden data line. What a mess those staff have wrapped themselves up in.
The superseded issue is pure BS.
“Over the years, this court-martial-like hearing has changed from a method of gathering facts and evidence”
LOL! Back in the day if Hubbard ordered one you KNEW what the outcome would be. (same for many other senior execs) It was never really about gathering facts and what not. It has always been a kangaroo court situation because the “jury” were always under the control of the convening authority. They could not be autonomous because their bosses ordered the action.
Spot on assessment. A ‘Guilty from Above’ system with flawless efficiently as the facts, whatever they are, are either dovetailed into the decision already decided from above or are ignored. It truly is an evil system as the Garcia’s are finding out the expensive way. Scientology arbitration on anything including all ethics actions is predetermined by policy that is always in favour of the organisation and is enforced by its preconceived connotation that they must always attack, never defend. Being wrong has never been an option for Hubbard & Scientology, only individuals are wrong, and that is policy!
In fact the whole human race is wrong from a Scientology perspective. The comm ev is just a fine tuning attempt to fit PR in there somehow in an attempt to divert attention away from its true objectives and to get rid of trouble makers.
Sad but true I Yawn. I cry sometimes thinking of it.
I was Sea Org 1975 til 2003. From 1983 til 1986 I was “Senior Routing Forms In Charge, Senior HCO Int”, and due to my policy knowledge, I was on a good number of Comm Evs and Review Comm Evs, in those 3 years. I knew policy, and the chief policy I followed, were a section of the “Board of Review” policy, which is the get-out-of-jail “stable datum”, and it comes down to weighing a person’s contributions vs their even proven misdemeanors or “crimes” (Hubbard’s rules call actions “crimes” so these “crimes are only “crimes” in Hubbard’s Scientology written rules’ view, and they are NOT “crimes” in the outside world’s interpretation of “crimes.”)
Hubbard’s language of ethics and justice is so off the mark compared to reality, that a word like “crimes” means to Hubbard and to Scientology, something different from what the outside world knows the word “crimes” to mean.
That is group mental isolation by way of language, Hubbard’s pulled everyone into his world of terms and rules for what is to be done with the members violate the words that Hubbard defines.
The only good moments in all the Comm Evs and Review Comm Evs, I recall now, is when the people under the gun being Comm Eved would point out some Hubbard writing detail that supported and justified the person’s complaint.
If I were to relay today the best of the best Hubbard “tips” for attempting justice, it’d be those 2 or 3 Hubbard exception “justice” points. (I even urged two members of the PAC RPF on these tiny details, and spread the word, and the two members got out of the RPF, but what did they gain, they gained membership back with the horrid whole Hubbard Scientology bureaucracy system again—it’s a losing proposition to “win” using Hubbard’s system to retain membership in the Hubbard “prison of belief” really.)
BUT, that is futile, since it is better to “lose” to this Hubbard system, and get out, and replace all one’s Hubbard ideas and knowledge with other ideas.
Get out and wash the Hubbard nonsense, top to bottom, out of your head. That takes years of re-education, the sooner that is done, the better for the ex members.
Hubbard’s “ethics” and “justice” writings have a few raisins among the overwhelming amount of turds that the Hubbard system is made up of. But skip trying to use them, as the bent of the whole Hubbard Scientology system is to blame the membership when the members fail at achieving the “OT” powers that not even Hubbard achieved.
Hubbard ought to have been assigned “Doubt” condition when he admitted to Sarge Steven Pfauth that Hubbard had failed, as told in the final pages of the must read “Going Clear….” (and the interview is in the film “Going Clear….” on DVD and must be watched and absorbed by all Scientologists).
Hubbard admitted failure, he was at that moment in Doubt and actually Treason to the whole movement, for admitting failure at his whole medicine.
So it is NO small thing to dump all of Scientology and dump all of Hubbard’s ideas. They will not eject easily out of one’s head, depending on how much stock you placed in those ideas and the length of time you filled your head with Hubbard’s ideas and “wins”.
Don’t try to make the failed (Hubbard admitted failure at it at the end of his life) system work for you.
Just get out. Start filling your head with other ideas to replace the Hubbard crap.
True true…. any doubts, checkout Wikipedia, LRH and Military service…. as a Navy veteran, I can tell you his service was patheticr and his published service full of lies. But he was a wanna be. these Comm Ev’s are run just like a courts martial according to the UCMJ (unifom code of military justice) which cover all services….just an FYI, no rant!! and if you are one of those who poo poo Wikipedia, it is much better today due to new management and vetting rules as to who can post…..enjoy:)
add to the above…. the Comm Ev is convened but not run according to the UCMJ…once convened the rest is a joke!!!!.
Wow.
Great comment Chuck. Especially the last 3 paragraphs. Hubbard’s ideas will not eject easily out of one’s head especially after years of indoctrination.
They stayed with me for years until I saw the first season of “Aftermath”. That show got me actively seeking to destroy the Scn thought patterns that were ingrained in my mind after years of indoctrination.
I realized I needed to start at the source, which was L.Ron Hubbard himself. I read “Bare Faced Messiah”, ” A Piece of Blue Sky”, “Madman or Messiah “, “Going Clear” (and the film): read them one right after the other. It got rid of any last vestiges of respect or adulation I had of him.
I then started reading other books to see where he got his ideas from. I saw that a lot of things in Scn were taken from other practices. Freud, eastern religion, ancient writing, occult ideas.
The only sticking point was the e-meter. I had auditor training so I saw meter reads (even saw a “rock slam” once). I never manipulated it. One of the contributors to this blog, I think it was Brian, wrote an excellent article on the e-meter, and it really made sense to me and straightened my thinking out on that.
I still am interested in spirituality. However I am pursuing it from a scientific basis. I am now reading books from real scientists researching the quantum world of the behavior of subatomic particles and the theories they are deriving from their observations. As you said, “Start filling your head with other ideas to replace the Hubbard crap.”
Back in my org days, I was occasionally asked to go into the Academy to demonstrate a “rock slam”, a violent back and forth movement of the needle. I could do it time after time. It was almost ludicrous to demonstrate it, be thanked, then return to post! LOL
Chuck GREAT COMMENTARY and spot on: “BUT, that is futile, since it is better to “lose” to this Hubbard system, and get out, and replace all one’s Hubbard ideas and knowledge with other ideas.
Get out and wash the Hubbard nonsense, top to bottom, out of your head. That takes years of re-education, the sooner that is done, the better for the ex member.”
Could this be the REAL EP of Scientology? “If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.”
― George Orwell, 1984
It is ironic that even Hubbard himself said that one eventually needs to run out Scientology. Guess he never quite envisioned it to work out the way it has. It looks like Miscavige is quite the 3rd Dynamic auditor after all – he’s making Scientology disappear at a rapid rate. Few more major foot-bullets Davey and we can all call it a day on Scientology.
A roast sounds good for tomorrow night’s dinner hey?
That is true, in his article “Ethics, Justice, and the Dynamics” Hubbard lays his perverted view of the world. In his world Ethics is survival, hence everything you do under this guise is kosher. Moral, is just a bunch of stupid laws written by society. Thus, we do not really have to obey them. Justice? Oh, that is a synonym word for punishment.
Anyone looking for true justice in the twisted world of Hubbard is a fool.
Thanks for this post for never-ins like me. I still have to wonder though, if you blew off a Comm Ev how you could still not be declared. Maybe one day you’ll be able to tell us your full story. I’m sure it’s very interesting.
In my experience, long before the diminutive one came to power, Comm evs were never about justice, but punishment. I participated in one, and we were informed things wouldn’t go well for us if we let the accused off without the most severe consequences being levied against the miscreant. The facts were already determined; there was no defense possible, nor any defense the accused could mount, since she didn’t know the particulars before the “court” convened We, as the “jury” couldn’t consider anything but what the accuser(s) alleged. The allegations were “fact”, anything in their defense would have been “reasonable”, verboten in Scientology
And “being reasonable was SO bad that REASONing was also dispensed with.
In Scientology, “ethics” is just their word for “punishment”; going to the E/O (Ethics officer) is always painful, and can get expensive$$$ these days, I hear. When I was in, that couldn’t have been an outcome for me, as I had no money or resources.
As a public, saying ‘I have no money or resources,’ will get you out quickly. Especially with the rein of the evil dwarf.
Yeah, but they don’t believe you for the most part. They know you have something of value hidden away somewhere. They even take your kids & will hunt for your friends. The evil dwarf waits in the shadows the whole time until they know you’ve been fleeced completely or if you say something untoward – then hello bus wheels or it’s meet the lawyer time!
That freaks me out. I stand corrected. You’re absolutely right.
I keep forgetting how evil the cult is. Must be an aging thing.
I think it’s more of a ‘don’t believe it thing’. No matter how bad it can get out in the world sometimes, add Scientology to it and it makes it worse. Take NOI for example or TC’s love life.
It’s not the getting old that’s so bad, it’s being old that hurts.
‘ “.. ethics” Is just their word for “punishment” ‘
Then, they really might be the most ethical group on the planet! ?
Yup, Terra, that is about it. The Committee cannot find the Interested Party Not Guilty. If they do the Committee itself will be found guilty and punished.
The ‘You Can Be Right’ policy was just more make-up.