Following the recent post Scientology and “The Mechanism of Death” comes this, the Hubbard/scientology idea that training is “for eternity.”
As an added point of interest, Jessica Pantermuehl is one of Jenna Miscavige’s cousins, who has of course long since disconnected from her and her mother Bitty — Jessica’s aunt. And though she no doubt knows how to confront and shatter suppressives she has not taken the opportunity to pop down to San Diego to visit her cousin and aunt (see Ron Miscavige post from yesterday).
L. Ron Hubbard made the “training is for eternity” pitch many times. In fact, there is a “Tech Film” featuring Isaac Hayes that is all about the value of being trained so you could start a scientology practice to train other auditors on some future planet where nobody speaks any understandable language. That is the subject of the film and Isaac Hayes was featured in THIS film and no other.
But, like the earlier post about the Mechanisms of Death, it certainly begs the question: If this is true, where are the auditors who have come back to a subsequent life and retain the scientology training they once learned? As far as I know, no such auditor has ever appeared. You can be sure scientology would be screaming from the rooftops and have the SuMP cranking if there were such a person. It would be a sensation that would definitely cause more people to do auditor training.
Again, this is not like promising a happy afterlife in some mystical realm, with or without virgins, pearly gates or angels — this is the promise that one will retain scientology knowledge gained in this life into future lives and be aware of it and be able to use it. It is such a common idea in scientology that it is presented in this promotional item as a foregone fact with no explanation required (or given).
Back in the 50’s or 60’s or even 70’s, one could be forgiven for not giving this much thought. Most people involved in scientology were young and “dropping the body” was not a subject that warranted time and energy. But now, nearly 70 years on, close to the normal span of life, there have been thousands of trained auditors (let alone OT’s, including OT VIII’s who have cured their amnesia of the whole track) who have passed away.
Not one has been able to demonstrate the assertion that their training is for eternity?
One problem is the complete illogic of the premise. If you cannot recall the language skills you had in a previous life or how to perform calculus or make a cheesecake, why would learning how to operate an e-meter or do TR’s be any different? It’s a conceit that is simply accepted — training as an auditor in scientology is SO valuable it will be remembered into future lives.
So, where are the past life auditors stepping up to the plate?
There is nobody who came back .. everybody has to start the bridge again .. anyway .. this is LRH ..
” it certainly begs the question: If this is true, where are the auditors who have come back to a subsequent life and retain the scientology training they once learned?”
The first three words explain why no-one inside the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology actually asks that (and many other questions):
“Clarity, Certainty & Simplicity”
There you have it. Once “certainty” is more important than asking questions (and it will be!), everything else falls into place.
A great post and a very funny lot of bloggers. I’ve had a great time here today.
I don’t think any of them will ever return because the ultimate SP, Satan, Mephisto or whatever else you want to name it, has sealed them all in plastic cases and has them up for sale on Hellbay.
Ron assured me that once Dave’s assets exceed $10,000,000,000 he will return. Revenimus!
Mike,
I think that proving one is the same being as a being who has died would be rough going, because who would believe it?
In other words, lets say I got some auditing and all of a sudden had total recall on having been a Scientologist who died right before I was born, total recall about that dead Scientologist, data that is 100% accurate – who would believe me? Most people – maybe not Scientologists, but most people – would just say that I was a fraud, that someone had briefed me, etc.
Look, I’m not trying to be right about this. I’m actually not sure about this.
I had an aunt who from the time she was 4 or five could play the piano. Never had a lesson, the family couldn’t afford it. They were poor and lived in a cold water flat on the top floor. But if you sang a song, no matter in what key, she could could accompany you on the piano, with chords and everything, in your key, in any key, and she retained this ability until her death. We always wondered how she could do that.
I think that its possible that certain abilities are retained from lifetime to lifetime. Now, whether a trained auditor can die and be able to audit in the next lifetime, and for all subsequent lifetimes, I don’t know. It sounds fantastical. I know of no-one nor have I ever heard of anyone coming into Scientology already knowing how to audit. But I wouldn’t say its impossible.
I too think the phenomenon of “child prodigies” is evidence of past lives. Along with a lot of other things.
What I am pointing out is the PROMISE that these things will happen. You will become cause over death. Be cured of whole track amnesia. Retain your knowledge learned as an auditor. If the latter is true, it would be easy to prove. One could easily determine whether a child had studied to be an auditor in their current life and then see if they knew what an E meter is and how to use it or what the laws of listing and nulling are.
Yes, people would tend to disbelieve it at first. But as there were more and more controlled tests and more and more people able to exhibit the same abilities it would become a sensation. There would be lines around the block and riot police would have to be called in to keep order as people lined up to get whatever it is that could routinely create such miracles. There has not been ONE. Yet it is presented as a FACT that this IS what happens.
Minimally someone ought to fire a LONG Project Mission to do some groundwork to proving some of this.
LRH ought to himself be a prime candidate “OT” to do something that gets noticed.
I wish more Case Supervisors who’ve case supervised young people who’ve made claims of their past lives would get interviewed and a chapter or paper written up and publicly shared about how things are going as of this time in Scientology’s “case” overseeing history, on this subject of how far kids who are arriving onlines and being case supervised are faring as far as past lives accuracy.
Services Exec Int and Qual Exec Int ought to get a project onto reviewing all cases and the accuracy of past lives memories.
Scientology is in the promising phase.
At least they should begin some methodical self-research their young “cases” to honestly review their results so far.
Scientology research, bah, humbug!
Supposedly FASE did some research on the purif.
Why is that not announced from the rooftops and
millions of people lined up to do it now? Instead that
has become one of the major contention in the law-
suits against Narconons.
Mike, you are my brotha from anotha motha.
And I am your father, but don’t bother.
I can’t count the times I was called motha…..
Mike, thanks for your response. I see what you mean. The PROMISE of retaining the ability to audit is the ethical outpoint. Its not that abilities cannot be passed thru lifetimes, because its apparent that they can be and are. Its the promises the cult makes about these abilities.That’s unethical. I can also agree that if enough people openly demonstrating auditing abilities from their former lifetimes it would be YUGE. If enough people via Scientology auditing and training returned in another body demonstrating abilities from former lives, the world would change, forever, and for the better
I know a few OT scientologists who died long enough ago that they would be old enough now to prove to me, without a doubt, that they are the same person. I can think of one in particular (who I’d love to see!) – who would certainly get in touch. And I would only need to ask him one question. But not one person has ever come back. Not one.
Have faith grasshopper.
The procedure of death is that you will forget erverything .. excerpt you hang on something very important for youself .. a seldom phenomena, but can happen .. in scintologese it is difficult .. because they remember too often things which were never true .. it is difficult to remember something which was never true ..
I can’t help but notice that scientology’s fliers just keep getting longer and longer. In 1980, I wore that hat of Director of Promotion and Marketing at ASHO Day where we used buttons to sell our product; surveys work wonders. Today, they blather endlessly, hoping that * something * anything * they’ve said will hit home.
Thanks, Mike!
Fred G. Haseney and JennyAtLAX
I met Jessica Pantermuehl once through her younger brother Jarrod. A little bossy but otherwise okay.
i was at prayer day. they had a lot exhibits of scn thing and an art show of scn artists. it was a quality show.and as for a pc returning from the dead, i think they’ll train someone-probably a staff member , to act like they are a returned from the dead and pr it for the all who are or aren’t in the cherch. they have done weirdo shit a lot.
Hey, Metteya/Buddha came back as LRH. What more proof do you need? Sheesh!
Mike, you’re killin’ it!
While in the SO I overheard a couple of course supervisors talking about the current earth location of their derelict space cruiser. By now they could have salvaged some advanced technology from that vessel but it hasn’t shown up yet.
Whenever I encouraged someone to take advantage of their past life recollections the answer was always something along the lines of “Earth civilization is not yet advanced enough for it.” Looks like it never will be.
WhatWall, someone who worked with Hubbard once told me that Hubbard told him there was a downed spacecraft off the Pacific Coast.
I always wondered if he meant the “magnetic anomaly” that he depth charged on his first command in the Navy. But if so, that means he knew that he was not attacking a real Japanese submarine. Was he really trying to save the world from the aliens? Did he succeed? Strange twists.
But I also heard there were some true believers that planned to do an underwater search at the “Japanese sub” site. If they find an alien spacecraft there it will surely shake up some of the dedicated doubters around here. Good thing it is about as likely as the freight train on Venus story…
Late night here and your post made me imagine a secret history of Scientology in which they actually know the truth, sort of. So LRH depth charged an magnetic anomaly during the war. This dislodged the wreckage of an ancient spaceship which surfaced. He took a small crew on board, collected a few items which he didn’t turn over. Injured his back in the process. Reported his find to the Navy.
Navy came and took the ship. Swore everyone to secrecy. Put LRH on a desk job, not as a punishment but to prevent him (and his knowledge of the alien vessel) from potentially getting into enemy hands. The rest of the crew also gets stateside postings. LRH doesn’t ever find out what the Navy did with the spaceship since he doesn’t have any expertise, and the Navy brass doesn’t trust him. His record was already mediocre.
Turns out the items he pilfered from the alien ship were holographic records. Meant for direct mental interface so the language barrier isn’t a problem. There’s a brief summary of the old galactic empire. Its history, main political trends, and philosophies. And there’s a few ship logs on what brought them to Earth and what small part they played in human evolution. LRH first learns about the thetans here, though he misinterprets it with his preconceptions about souls.
Unfortunately for LRH, his stolen devices only work twice and then are forever silent. Whatever powered them for millennia finally gave out. LRH will be the only human to receive this knowledge and, unfortunately, the rest of humanity will only learn their contents filtered through LRH’s faulty memory, his lust for money and power, and ultimately his strong desire to make it all about him. Plus, he’ll package it all up in a Golden Age of Pulp wrapper which makes most of it completely incomprehensible and unbelievable.
Turning his discoveries into a pulpy religion did save him from arrest and a secret court martial. The US government considered his story to be mostly fiction and thought if they just left him alone, most would consider him a crank. Turned out this was the best strategy for keeping the secret, though it does explain why his illegal activities were ignored for so long.
I’ll stop there. Think this would be a fun story.
It would explain a lot.
Bruce,
Add ‘Malibu’ to the search words. It seems to always pan out that Hubbard was behind the curve instead of ahead of the curve; never expecting to be found out.
My assertion about scientology ‘tech’ is that it’s a Rube Goldberg machine. A highly complicated contraption that yields very little for all its moving parts. “Training” consists of learning all the many cogs and gears of it and demonstrating that knowledge. The very fact that you’ve learned and demonstrated such exacting and complicated stuff makes you look and feel highly efficient and capable.
I’m not suggesting that Rube Golberg-esque machine doesn’t yield feelings of elation and optimism about the future. I’m just saying those effects can be got in many less expensive, less ‘technological’ ways. Everything you “win” or “gain” you can also lose. That’s how it works in this world. Better to learn how to be happy with what you’ve got when it’s all taken away. What’s left is just you and you are the only thing you ever really wanted.
When I completed my Class IV Internship and got the gold seal cert for it, the Interne Sup said to me, “This Gold Seal means your cert is good forever, even in future lifetimes.” And he fully expected me to audit in future LT’s on other planets etc. Then comes along GAT I, GAT II, etc and all certs are cancelled and you go down to the bottom of the Bridge to train again. Same for auditing. It’s a big Chutes and Ladders game. Only you have to pay big bucks to play it.
Like every lie, there’s a grain of truth in there somewhere: It’s not so much that training will follow you into your future lives. However, good luck to your heirs getting any of your unused money (that should rightfully be your heirs’) back from the cult!
And so the effects of your training endure beyond your mortal coil…
My Auditing revealed that I’m a past life clear:
Ther is a Tech that states when somebody has recalls of past life auditing, one should determine by secchecks the exact identy and Name of the past life and the fin d the pCfolders :
I was always asking the cses to apply this tech tech on me.
LOL, No CS dared to do it , as now I know they don’t really believe in it. And I haven’t heard of one single PC where that was applied. I have seen the Bulletin somewhere describing the procedure….
LOL
You’re probably right about that, Roger. Also they don’t want you to find out your name and the fact that you had lots of money on account that you now want to use in this LT. I had money on account and wanted to use it for auditing and even got the accounts or treasury people to write an attestation that they’d been over the account and I had something like 8 hours left of auditing and it could be used in any HGC. I told that to my D of P when I routed in for auditing and they figured out a way to say the guy was wrong and I had no hours on account and I had to pay up and pay up fast, and basically they lied through their teeth. I tried calling the first person to find out what happened, and they wouldn’t take the call or call me back. They had been read the riot act from the HGC to never admit that a pc could get auditing without paying fresh money, new blood. It really made me start to think the church was scamming people and was only about the money. Still even after that blatant lie, it took me several years after that to get out.
“When you learn the ‘tek’ of GAT 2, you’re able to instill prenatal commands in embryonic thetans that will create future Scientologists. Training is for maternity!”
ML,
Jessica
Back in the 70s, I was living in Honolulu. I flew back to California for what the cult called, Pray Day (at least that’s what i think it was called) in 1976 (I think). I met Authur, Suzette & Diana there. It was held at the Anaheim Convention Center, just across the street from Disneyland. I want to say it was 4 days long.
Were any of you posters, by chance, there during that time?
Prayer Day – yes, I remember it well. I invited a ‘wog’ who made fun of the blown up picture of Ron. I was so insulted! On another note, I don’t recall any whale sightings in Long Beach at the time.
No ,but if you were the ED of the org in Hawaii I may have met you in the NOTS HGCs at Flag in the 80s.
I was at the mission on Kapio’lani Bl.
And, I was in Div 6.
Wow, that is really interesting. I’ve never heard of Pray Day. Would love to hear more if you’d be amenable to elaborating. What was your impression of Hubbard’s kids? How old were they at that time? Tell more, please! 🙂
It was actually Prayer Day. Hey! This was a long time ago!
Authur was in his late teens, early 20s. Very nice kid. Suzette was very charming! I offered to teach her how to snow ski. Diana was a bit distant.
Thanks OSD, it’s nice to hear about your perceptions of them. I think I recall reading that none of the Hubbard kids are still in Scientology with the possible exception of Diana.
That would be correct, T.J. Why Diana stays is anybody’s guess…
That’d be a real test for her Grade 3, dontcha think?
What else could she do?
Today it would be called Preyer Day.
Or “Prey Day,”
Or Oy Vey.
Oy vey, its Prey Day! And SO recruiters are swarming the Idle Morgues…
Mephisto, OSD and Jenny at LAX,
You guys are on a roll! Lol!
“Or “Prey Day,”” Lol! Quick on the draw!
Yes I believe I was there it was a 4 day event (there only 1 day) but I don’t remember it being called Pray Day. I remember Chick Corea played, Amanda sang and some others, Heber spoke, etc. All I remember is that day was too friggin long like every other Scien. event.
You’re right, Ms P. It was called Prayer Day. And I remember all those people there, too.
Yes, I came out to Anaheim from Colorado for Prayer Day with some others – but I’m obviously not a Recall Release as I cannot for the life of me remember who. I do remember the Scn Choir singing the Factors – which was cool. There was a 45 record made of that performance. (PS to OSD… I now live in Surf City too!)
Have Mike give you my contact info.
Let’s give thanks for small blessings.
Or for any blessings that come our way. I love the term “blessings.” If you’re having a good day, well, that’s a blessing! If you find a parking spot in a crowded parking lot, that’s a blessing! Now, I don’t use this in a religious sense, as I’m not religious. But, giving thanks for any perceived blessings, can make your day better,
And, gratitude is a game changer!
Yes! 🙂 OSD, I like the things you say. Always nice to read something that can cheer a person up, lift your spirits, bring forth a smile, and cause one to ponder or reflect on good things in life. hmmm I guess you are one of those blessings then.
“Nothing new can come into your life, until you’re grateful for what you already have.” Bernard Beckwith.
Thanks for the kind words, T.J.
Training gives you the tools necessary to go deeper down the rabbit hole, and with GAT 2 your gullibility factor goes way up. You achieve epic levels of suppressed cognitive dissonance and your kool-aid quotient (KQ) goes out the roof. And, most importantly, your willingness to follow Shepherd Dave rises to unprecedented levels of sheepishness. Training is for eternity! Baaahhh!!!
“Kool-Aid Quotient (KQ)” Love it! Hey, now that’s another great noise that $cilons can make to describe their wins when words alone will not suffice…Kqeew!
Mephisto – touche!
It is a component of almost every major religion (is there even any exception to this?) that being down with the religion will get you perks after you kick the bucket. Living forever in heaven with God and Jesus (who are the same being but occupy two chairs), going to Valhalla, escape from the physical world into the spiritual state, and on and on and on.
I got a LOT of gain out of my Scientology training, and frankly never gave it even ONE second of thought that it was for eternity. Never considered it. But then again, when I got into Scientology in 1970, this was not mentioned as either a selling point or a promise as it is now. We were all very young people and eternity was almost the least of our thoughts. (Now in our geezerhood, this apparently is more of a concern)
By the way, the comment by the interviewee on what is different in today’s training … that you only get what you need to audit and “there isn’t a bunch of extra stuff” … a TRULY idiotic comment which really shows you where the bulk of today’s Scientologists are at (the few that are left and the even more miniscule number who train to be auditors). When I did the Levels in 1972, they were NOT long – so they took a few weeks, aren’t they for “eternity”? – , and the extra stuff she is referring to (unknowingly no doubt) is the 10 or so LRH taped lectures on each level. Yeah, you know, the guy whose subject you’re supposed to be fucking STUDYING? I think the geezers who currently populate the CoS have no doubt moved into either the early stages of dementia or more likely the middle stages (those that are even still alive) to even read or listen to this shit without retching. …. an IAS card needed to go to events … really, it is almost embarrassing to see how low this group has sunk in just its ability to observe and compute.
“…really, it is almost embarrassing to see how low this group has sunk in just its ability to observe and compute.”
That’s the principle reason I left. I found these people embarrassing, as a group. I didn’t want to be associated with them anymore.
“Again, this is not like promising a happy afterlife in some mystical realm, with or without virgins, pearly gates or angels — this is the promise that one will retain scientology knowledge gained in this life into future lives and be aware of it and be able to use it. It is such a common idea in scientology that it is presented in this promotional item as a foregone fact with no explanation required (or given).”
Humans are famous for going “fact blind” at the drop of a hat, but when you see an entire herd of sheeple studiously ignore the direct evidence that their foundational beliefs (e.g., this lifetime super powers; next lifetime $cn training retainment) are completely bogus, you just want to grab them by the shoulders and give them a good shaking, while screaming, “Wake the F**** UP, this nonsense DOES NOT WORK as promised!!!”
Of course, for $cilons, Denial is not just their hometown, but encompasses the entire geography of their mass hypnotized minds. The trick, apparently, is to just never ever allow yourself to reflect upon what you were told was reality in the past, to just push down and repress any and every hydraulically up-welling thought about how reality is at variance with what you’d been force fed and come to believe with zeal.
Poor $cilons, that’s gotta hurt in that same kinda way as when dementia sets in for old-timers. There may not be any nerve endings in the brain itself to bring the perception of what we normally register as pain, but trust me here, getting that stupid hurts us all very, very much 😉
And…denial, once again, is NOT a river in Egypt.
Sorry, I don’t agree. Promoting that a last-life scn has returned with proven full or partial memory would cause even more rejection and ridicule from the non-scn world.
Somewhere in the early Red Vols LRH states such would make the public “run away from us”.
On the other hand, I visited my SO friend (now passed away, sadly) in his workshop and he had a visitor, a younger guy, who soon left. My friend told me the boy was a public (non SO) returnee and was asking what he was like “last life” which my friend declined to discuss.
He didn’t tell me the boy’s supposed previous name, but from the few details he gave me, turns out I knew the chap, though we weren’t close friends. I didn’t run into the youngster after that. He’d be in his early 30s now.
Wow, you really think that if someone proved they had overcome bodily death that this would scare people away? And you believe it because sometime in the 1950’s LRH said that was the case? I might suggest to you that thinking for yourself may be worth a shot.
So according to our friend civmar there must be an army of “returnees”, just waiting for the order from His Midgetness to unleash their incredible theta upon the planet and restore it to sanity, a world without crime, blah, blah, blah….
Thank God I was worried there for a minute.
Hey civmar! Just got back from Maine and the lobsters were incredible. I suggest flying some in for dinner. You won’t be disappointed.
His Midgetness would never do that. A world without crime or insanity would mean no place for him in it.
Everyone who fully understands what the scientific method is and knows how to apply it would be overjoyed to be part of any empirical research endeavor that provided irrefutable evidence of last lifetime recall and/or skill retainment.
None of us here in science land are the least bit afraid of or concerned about such things. Indeed, breaking new ground like that is every young researcher’s dream! Of course, as Carl Sagan famously noted, large claims require big proof. So any results that, in effect, overturn the currently understood laws of physics, would require quite a bit of testing and the replication of results before folks began to lend them full credence.
But the bogus idea that we’d all just be overwhelmed by the possibility is much more likely to be a projection of exactly what various other fundamentalist religious faiths have always done, which is to get stupid and deny reality when it contradicts their orthodoxies of belief.
I’ve printed this before – “Nothing is so firmly believed as what is least known.” – Mongaigne. Montaigne admonishes to be aware of such absolute certainty. Even the certainty of doubt.
Carl Sagan has also written that there is absolutely no proof/evidence of future lives (past lives then too) or aliens, for that matter. I somehow think he knows a thing or two – more than me, at any rate. I was going to say “us” but thought I should speak for myself only.
I admire Mr. Sagan but I don’t put him on a pedestal. I don’t see anything wrong with having beliefs. Some things cannot be proved nor disproved. Mr. Sagan believed there was no cosmic intelligence but that the intelligence was in the person who was trying to make sense of a mechanistic universe.
My disagreement with him is that it cannot be proved the person has its own intelligence. I argue that “personal” intelligence is cosmic intelligence operating through chemical reactions which are NOT controlled by the person.
My assertion is there is ONLY cosmic intelligence and there is NO “personal” intelligence. There is no proof either way although both views can be cleverly argued until the cows come home. So you see, even Mr. Sagan had his beliefs.
Kein Kommentar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI6ZhRk86Hs
Ethics in its high form and function is what you most want to do.
Some will think “Rich, no work, yacht, girls, eternal vacation.” That’s not workable, and it isn’t what a being most wants. A better approach is to write up an Ideal Scene for the world in general.
Mike – I can “prove” recall of abilities, recall of the product of pretty intense training (not in auditing), and I did once. It was TOTALLY IGNORED. I don’t love all of Simon & Garfunkel poetics, or lyrics, but “A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest” has some truth to it. One always has a choice, an option, to go be a serial killer, but it leads to consumption of oneself, to more hatred, more reactive mind. What is really desired is harmonious with Creation.
This is classical Ethics. Nicomachean Ethics. The big question is why someone would simply “not be interested” in reading a positively great man like Aristotle, to take a look at some of the duly credited source material LRH integrated and resolved. That is Ethics, it is integrity, it is production. Which is why auditing is so valuable, and why doing the relatively easy work of training to audit is so valuable.
I’m glad that you elected to put the word “prove” in quotes because that implies that you’re very much aware that you couldn’t replicate and routinely produce a demonstration of the abilities that you allude to.
I wouldn’t want to invalidate any subjective sense of value that you place on your auditing experiences, but I would like to emphasize that Elron made some very specific and objectively verifiable claims regarding to super power abilities are supposed to be routinely achievable at various levels of the upper bridge which have never been validated in the sense of the word “proof” has in empirical research.
I’m as sad as anyone out there that no one (including you) has stepped forward to demonstrate these truly remarkable super powers. I find any and all excuses that folks have made to attempt to explain away this glaring absence (e.g., they’re not parlor tricks; your necessity level has to be high enough) to be wholly unsatisfying.
You see, if even one person could objectively demonstrate their telepathic/telekinetic powers, then it would boom $cn like it’s never been boomed before. Folks would be literally breaking down the doors; billions would be spent to advance the research and reconcile it with the known laws of physics, etc. If those promised abilities were real, then by now someone surely would have been able to demonstrate them, especially Elron himself.
The very sad end to a fancifully imagined life are fully documented in the tale of Elron’s actual physical and mental condition leading up to his demise and his failure to reincarnate to carry on with the obviously flagging progress toward clearing the planet. He didn’t achieve immortality and super being status and, unfortunately, neither will you. And he’s not coming back with the kind of continuity of consciousness across lifetimes that he asserted either.
This is a very hard pill to swallow if you’ve been a true believer up until now, but once you examine the incontrovertible evidence which invalidates the claims that Elron made, it’s completely impossible to reach any other conclusion than that the upper bridge, with all that space opera nonsense, has no truth value whatsoever and real spiritual progress, imo, departs from the point when you finally come to realize that fact.
However, if you’d like to continue to maintain that any of those promised super powers actually are attainable, then please step forward, kind sir, and we’ll get right to work on setting up a means by which to objectively evaluate that claim.
Well said, IMO. A person after my own heart.
Sorry but nope.
However *trying* to prove it satisfactorily and failing miserably at it, just like what happened to Hubbard and his first “clear” with perfect recall who could not even remember her goddamn physics lessons a few days after studying them (a feat a mere wog like me can accomplish over 10 years later), *that* will put much ridicule and derision about your far-fetched claims.
THAT is why Hubbard never made that mistake ever again.
If that premise were true, then, where is LRH? Has he ‘come back’?
Maybe Karma already took care of his future & eternity.
And, lets say the premise is true, but even then, maybe those that remember that they were scientologists in their previous life have also decided to quit, seeing that the new leader and his sociopath methods are separating families and depriving others of common human rights.
Hardly anyone wants to join scientology now, far less go back to it again.
“Help us, Obi Wan – we’ve been overwhumped by the bank”
Bank of America or Chase?
It’s time for Dave to take a cue from Tony Ortega and start his own blog. It could be called The Underground Banker.
That is very funny!
LMAO!!! Touché!
Lol! So quick on the draw!
E-meters, any them, are a joke. The least they could do is do away with the cans, or at least make them non-squeezable. We all know that pressing even likely moves the needle.
Hey, that’s an interesting idea. If they are going to continue to use the “e-meter”, they could at least improve upon the design. I like the idea of doing away with the cans, and just having your hand resting on a sensor on the meter, sort of like the new ‘chip-reader’ credit cards, you don’t have to swipe them through anymore. I’ve never seen an e-meter, and don’t know anything about it’s use, but there are probably ways to improve it, I’d guess.
I do think it’s hugely over-priced though, based on how inexpensive it is to make – it’s then greatly inflated in price to generate more income. And Scientologists are stuck having to pay this astronomical price because it is an essential part of their equipment for auditing. So they have to buy it no matter how much it costs, as there is no other outlet selling it for a cheaper price, to keep the prices low and competitive, they have to buy it from the CofS because they are the only manufacturers.
It’s like if you were a mechanic and only one company made a screwdriver – you’d have to pay $70 for it if that’s what they were charging, since you need that thing, it’s essential to do your work, and there’s only one place making it, so they can charge whatever they want. That’s the e-meter. Probably costs less than $80 to make, but they charge much more for it.
And, according to their own site, you have to also pay for an I.A.S. membership every year to be allowed “the right to own an e-meter” https://www.hubbarde-meter.org/faq.html plus you have to “update” your e-meter every year on their website, where they will double-check to make sure you have paid your IAS yearly membership fees – it kinds of seems like a money-making scam. Did L.Ron Hubbard say that members have to pay the I.A.S. every year in order to be allowed to use the e-meter? I’m thinking the answer is no.
I respect an individual’s right to believe whatever gives them comfort and does not hurt others.
Logic and religion, like oil and water do not mix well, so it’s not the illogicality of belief that I take issue with. It is the behavior, which, informed by belief, consciously and deliberately oversteps the bounds of decency and often, law; and is a foundational core dogma of Scientology.
In this regard, Scientology and ISIS are manifestations the same problem, albeit on a vastly different scale.
The road to total immersion is the road to freedom.
Like I’ve said, if it ISN’T a lie, it ISN’T scientology. Take that axiom all the way THROUGH eternity.
I love that saying, Mike! “If it isn’t a lie, it isn’t Scientology.” Would that look great on a billboard or what?
That would be funny OSD. Right in CW!
Bingo!
“If it isn’t a lie, it isn’t Scientology.” – perfect analogy. Perfect for a billboard.
I found that it also gives you freedom from doing handouts or setting up for events or doing bulk mail until 4:30 in the morning. In fact, the real result of training – auditing 40 to 60 hours a week provides all sorts of freedoms. You don’t have to confront raw public if your in the chair or deep in the SO or on full time training. You don’t have to confront anything … really. The most valuable beings on the planet.
Lol! I’m laughing so much today and it’s not even the Thursday funnies yet!
From a con men point of view it is pretty clever.Yes it cost a bit but it will last for eternity!
I believe Hubbard believed his own con so it was not a con in his eyes but “more research is needed.This time I will really do it.”
After reading Steve Cannane’s book, especially the section about the interview with the guy who did the The Shrinking World of L. Ron Hubbard doc, I’m not so sure about that.
Perhaps he came to believe it later in life, but at that point, if that conversation really happened, he certainly did not.
I won’t rule out the head trauma from his motorcycle accident as a reason he went wacky. The woman who nursed him said he was never the same as he was before said accident.
Here’s an example of how a fraud can come to believe in their own abilities and powers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjPsnfysrp8
eh, he was already going the psycho Zenu route before the motorcycle spill. And, he had already committed felonies that put him squarely into the criminal sociopath category YEARS before that.
“I believe Hubbard believed his own con…” Nah, I don’t think he did.
“Being a Scientologist” means
Don’t look for yourself
Don’t Think for yourself
“The Psych’s” and SP’s are everywhere
Everything good that happens to you is due to Scientology.
Everything BAD that happens to you – is “You Pulled It In” (the oldest trick in the book for ALL fanatic religions)
Hubbard makes fun of Catholics who have to “pay to confess their sins”
Then Hubbard and Miscavige take THAT ^^^^^SCAM to a whole new level of CON
It is a fact that SCIENTOLOGY has beaten every other charlatan on the planet to date…
in bankrupting and financially ruining their parishioner’s.
Scientology makes Jimmy and Tammy Faye Baker look like Pre Schooler’s when it comes to manipulating and deceiving their own flock
Ya see, Idle, that’s the great thing about Scientology! You don’t have to look & you don’t have to think? All you have to do is, do what you’re told! I mean, how great is that!
I guess if they get all these benefits for their eternity there is no real need to worry about the here and now.