Here is the news you have all been waiting for….
The final two weeks of results in the WUS “Ideal Org” Truman Show money grab game.
First, the results from the penultimate week:
There are some of these orgs that are just not with the program. Remember, this is cumulative for the YEAR. Hawaii has collected 0. Albuquerque $100. St Louis $5000.
This might get them a shoebox in the middle of the road (in the immortal words of Monty Python in “Four Yorkshiremen”).
So, how did they do to wrap up the year, in the sprint to become the “First Ideal Continent”? (Never mind the ONLY new org that has opened in WUS in at least the last two decades is Inglewood, a totally artificial org bought by the IAS and no doubt an abject failure, while CC Dallas, CC Ptl and CC LV have all been shuttered).
Well, the sprint turned out to be an afternoon stroll, though some don’t seem to have a pulse at all. Even the “mighty” Valley Allstars could not scrape up a $100 “for LRH’s Birthday.” Seems like Valley is pretty tapped out…
You really have to wonder how much longer they can keep pretending.
In 2003 Miscavige embarked on this brilliant strategy. He told the clubbed seals he had found the “why” that orgs were “trying to do too little” and that an org could not operate unless it was properly set up. He analogized it to an auditing session, saying you cannot deliver an auditing session without a room and a meter and, and, and… Therefore, every org HAD to be “ideal” in order to succeed.
More than a decade later, only 20% of them are “ideal” (and not one of them is succeeding). Obviously this was NOT a why he bought into. He only gave it as a sales pitch to persuade suckers to give him more money. He has not spent the money he already had (more than a billion dollars) to make all orgs ideal and thus clear the planet. Why not? I thought this is what he is dedicated to accomplishing and he “found the why” as to how come that had NOT been accomplished. But then didnt implement the handling for his why other than to tell the public they needed to pay.
But increasingly they are tapped out and the whole thing has stalled. He is trying to convince people everything is all fine in Seahaven when the bow of the boat has pierced the backdrop.
How long can you maintain the illusion Dave?
Thanks Mj & Cindy. I thought college was brilliant so I wanted my kids to have that opportunity. My friend’s daughter used to hide in the bushes after school, to avoid the recruiters before she was picked up. I know several kids who got their GEDs because they devalued higher education, and now, in their late twenties, are struggling to make a basic living. Some of these kids were very smart and capable. In LA, there are scores of young people who have bombed out of the sea org. One girl was seriously ill and had to be nursed back to health by her dad. Adolescence is difficult enough and kids need serious nutrition, exercise, discipline and guidance, NOT to be destablized, neglected and twisted into a knot, trying to save the planet. Adolescents need more sleep than pregnant women and their brains are still growing, until age 25. I know several young men who have bad psychological problems, because their sexual development was so invaded and made wrong for doing natural things, that they became so introverted, they couldn’t function as adults. I’ve personally seen many sea org kids who looked tired and in poor physical appearance. Sorry so long but these kids had the right to not participate in the Truman Show and they were not given a choice. The power of choice is sacred, and their parents had a duty to allow them a broad view, and to make their own decisions. These are huge crimes against the next generation and I am absolutely against, not giving young people, every opportunity to succeed well in this life. It’s ironic, because I credit my non gat tech training and many hours in the chair, with much of my success as a parent. but then, the Truman Show got created and radicalized by the militant rcs, making the parent hat acceptable to betray. Disgraceful.
+ 1
Response to Indie8million awhile back~ Yes indeed that was the point. I like the BM reference (before Mismanage), it’s very suitable and appropo. 🙂 I kindof missed the frog in the boiling water problem, because I took time away to raise my kids, so the difference of pre and post LRH & gag I was huge for me. I was also well educated before I got into Scn. But what a gargantuan outpoint, that I had to stay away from the church in order to raise my kids properly which I didn’t fully grasp at the time. I thought I was “different”, or just an off purpose, shitty Scngt……….yeah! I wasn’t playing the Truman Show or willing to ruin my kids lives for any cause.
Yay momma!
Take a win on holding to your principles, Hallie Jane! Your kids are all the better for it! Some of us took a different path and sacrificed and paid through the nose to put our kids in Scn schools only to have the schools used as recruiting grounds for the SO so that many of these kids were plucked out before even getting a high school diploma and certainly before getting a college degree, to go work as slave labor and not even get a GED while in the SO. And they are happy to do it and sneer with disdain at “Ha! a high school / college diploma! I don’t need no stinkin sheepskin! I have the Sea Org! I’m doing God’s (strike that, I mean “Ron’s” work!)
First prize – a special Management guest speaker.
Second prize – TWO special management guest speakers!
How to handle criticism: Steve Jobs Insult Response: https://youtu.be/FF-tKLISfPE
What people seem to not realize is that RCO$ has become even more a cult of personality. COB can do no wrong in the eyes of the clubbed seals. To see wrong would nean that everything you’ve put your faith (and $) into is a sham. It takes a very strong person to admit to themselves and others the level of their foolishness.
Conspiracy theory? Nah, he will ask advice and if it’s not what he wants to hear….. Off to the hole you go
GTBO — its always refreshing to hear from someone who has been there. It’s so much simpler in reality that I suppose it is hard for some to grasp. You summarized the whole thing in a couple of sentences of pithy commentary (as is your wont). If you have actually experienced it or observed it in person, you don’t need to come up with other theories, Miscavige is a sociopath, and a clever one at that. He knows how to play the game and manipulate people, especially those whose first inclination is to assign him nothing but the purest motives — after all, he IS the most dedicated Scientologist on earth. How could he be anything other than an amazing being? If he isn’t, it throws a lot of things into doubt, especially in the black and white world of fundamentalism where you cannot think outside the prescribed boundaries of accepted belief. There is not a single person who ever comments who has actually met and worked with the guy that believes there is any other force at work than him….
Origin story: SuperCon aka David Miscavige, found that as a two-year old he could trick much older kids into giving him gifts just by his ominous glare. As he developed his language skills, he became more and more adept at the art of manipulation and trickery and found himself lording over his fellows as a normal operating basis. Amused by most people’s gullibility, he amassed huge wealth and power creating his own religion with worshipping followers known as clubbed seals. His arch rivals are Mike and Marty, two escapees from ‘The Hole’ ™ who battle him daily using the Internet to expose his crimes and shine the light of truth in his direction.
Mike,
That’s only because, from your little OSA post, you were not privy to all the evidence linking BCCI, Ingo Swann, the Black Plague, and who was REALLY behind the Trojan Horse. Once you connect the dots– the way Robin has– it’s all so obvious.
Sheesh.
I don’t know. I’m still trying figure out what happened to Pat Broeker and F.O.3879.
That little prick has got to answer to somebody. Maybe Meade Emory of C.S.T. or maybe Marcab High Command. I just don’t know.
Please dont start the Meade Emory fairy tale debate. It’s a waste of time. Marcabs, maybe.
These “fishing” Youtubes are just too good. Here’s another, one of my favorites: ” Pie-face.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK4T5GSwyOU
@ MJ
regarding YSCOHB. here’s just one link http://www.bohomoth.com/2014/01/07/tom-cruises-best-friend-david-miscavige-sent-sweary-rants-to-scientologists/
but there’s better ones out there. someone, maybe mike, i forget, posted the actual text messages online.
i’m pretty sure mike has said it took him and tommy davis a few hours to figure out what it stood for.
I know I’ve said it before but I am SO glad I am out of that loony bin.
Now if Heber were the “special guest speaker” going to the winning org, that would be something!
I simply can’t imagine any thinking person joining up with this sort of thing today!
They don’t want “thinking” people. They want delusional, gullible people with big bank accounts.
I agree with Mike. DM wormed his way into LRH’s graces with lies and manipulation and by cutting LRH’s comm lines and altering comm sent to him. So when it was announced that he was chosen by LRH to carry on, every Scn I saw at the Palladium that night just accepted it and that was that without question.
The Org Board system is set up to have one person at the top. And he tweaked that to his advantage by ousting all the Executives who could have provided checks and balances to him, as well as kicked Mary Sue out as one of his first orders of business. Add to that he declared anyone trained by Ron, many OT’s who could perceive and see what he was doing, and after the dust settled, he was left with lower level SO members and a clueless public. (No slight intended to SO here at all. Most SO are good people who have a big desire to help.)
And as Mike said, “His problem is not IQ. Nor force of personality. Nor nerves. He is a classic sociopath.” Having read Stout’s book, “The Sociopath Next Door,” as well as Ron’s references on the subject, I have to agree 110% that DM is a sociopath and an SP and a computing psychotic. And he is cunningly clever at his scams. All the more reason that he has to be taken out and brought down so that more lives aren’t ruined.
LRH says that people committing overts will do themselves in in an attempt to restrain themselves from committing more overts. But in Miscavage’s case, that may not happen because one of the traits of an SP is that they think they do no wrong. They can’t see or agree that they are committing overts, thus they may not pull in the motivators and may not try to lessen themselves. But the law of Karma may take a hand in this play to even the score. I hope it does.
I would like to join others here in the conceptual vomitorium. Ugh, these stupid status names! You know, years ago when I was really in need of help and reaching for Scientology, these names alone would have kept me away. I mean, I would have just run right out the door!
I always figured this whole “Ideal Org” scam on a more limited scale ranked right up there with the ol’ BCCI and S&L scandal back in the ’90’s.
This why I figured Miscavige alone didn’t have enough smarts to pull it off.
That’s why I say maybe the relationship between him and Khashoggi went a little deeper than dropping off some ex and his kids at Flag and giving him a tour.
Just a theory.
Not a good theory. If you don’t think Miscavige is smart enough to “pull off” the Ideal Org scam I don’t know what you are looking at. It has rolled out in real time. There is absolutely nothing hidden about it. It’s just covered in a smokescreen of Shermanspeak bs and the sheeple are afraid to even think that it might be bs. All they need to is observe their org the next time they walk in. But Miscavige always has a new “reason” — GAG, GAK, GAG II etc etc.
Don’t forget GAD (golden age of drek).
Actually Mike,
I think the theory’s pretty good and that Adanan’s appearance on the scene wasn’t just a “coincidence”.
Just like General William Odom showing up on a list of directors for ATG wasn’t as far as I’m concerned a “coincidence”.
Nor is the fact that Harold Puthoff worked for NSA.
Come on Mike the paper trail already established leads to the Intelligence Community’s interest in Scientology.
Khashoggi is a heavy hitter in the IC. One of the master minds behind BCCI and before that Iran/Contra.
Miscavige doesn’t impress me as a master mind of any kind.
“GAG” was actually based on his perverted concept of “A Talk on a Basic Qual”.
“GAK” another stupid idea was based on the HCOB “Current State of the Materials”. More alter is.
And “GAG II” is based on what Einstein said about insanity which is that the insane are bound to the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result.
Yet “Ideal Orgs” is a carefully conceived money laundering operation.
One that in my opinion is way beyond that little moron’s depth.
Say what you want Mike on it but I disagree.
I am sure you disagree Robin, you usually do when I tell you your conspiracy theories are figments of your imagination.
I met Kashoggi and described this here.
I met Miscavige (have you?) and was there at the start of the “Ideal Orgs” strategy which was at the time the “central orgs” strategy which was really the Buffalo eminent domain strategy and the embarrassed about Tampa Org because Tom Cruise might bring someone there (same with NY, SFO and Madrid).
You really don’t have any position from which to speak authoritatively. You just seem to enjoy seeing CIA fingerprints on everything.
There is no “money laundering” it is just money making. Though EVERYTHING that goes into the church could be said to be “money laundering” as there is no accountability for it. It’s one of the wonderful things about being a church.
Mike,
Figment of my imagination.
Yeah right:
Since when are “conspiracy theories” documented at NARA?
As I wrote earlier Scientology’s connection to the Intelligence Community is already well documented.
http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/stargate.htm
Anyone would be naive to assume that the connection didn’t continue after the RV program.
Okay so you met Kashoggi.
Did you think he was being entirely honest with you and telling you the actual reason he was there or giving you a cover story of some kind?
What about the fact that General William Odom former Director of NSA just happened to be on the Board of Directors of ATG?
Of course I don’t expect CIA to leave finger prints because they usually use gloves and their connection isn’t exposed until years after the fact.
Like for instance their relationship to the proliferation LSD and the Counter Culture:
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/marks.htm
http://wikispooks.com/w/images/a/a0/Acid_dreams.pdf
And no I’ve never had the misfortune of meeting “Mr. David Miscavige” and thank my lucky stars that I dodged that bullet.
Though I can say I wasn’t lucky enough to avoid his endless droning speeches filled with nothing but doublespeak and historical inaccuracies “live” at the Shrine, LA Sports Arena or Universal Amp.
Being subjected to any of those would make someone scratching a nail continually across a chalk board seem almost enjoyable.
But anyway. Seems you are somewhat down on “conspiracy theories” of any kind.
Do you think only the FBI should be allowed to consider the fact that conspiracies exist?
Even though Miscavige little Winston Smiths may claim otherwise on the current Church of Scientology website by showing a complete ignorance of the plural form of any noun:
http://www.scientology.org/david-miscavige.html
(Begin Fair Use)
Mr. Hubbard himself phrased it:
“So forgive me for not managing the Church when it almost fell into hostile hands. It all came out all right. Why? Because real Scientologists made sure it did. My faith was justified.”
That real Scientologist L. Ron Hubbard spoke of was David Miscavige.
(End Fair Use)
The fact is that it was “Scientologists” plural that means more than one involved in what I call the coup which in the long run became harmful to Scientology and led to various crimes and high crimes as outlined in Ethics and Justice Codes being perpetrated by the individuals involved:
A conspiracy by the following definition:
http://thelawdictionary.org/conspiracy/
In other words Miscavige couldn’t do what he’s done all by himself.
Yes Mike you are telling me from an “authoritative” (which is the adverb of authority which I have little use for) position that Miscavige created this “Ideal Org” scam all by his lonesome yet say in the same paragraph that Cruise was to a involved in this decision making him a coconspirator greater or lesser degree.
Proving that he did not conceive this project all on his own.
My simple question is:
Is Miscavige running the show or is he simply a catspaw?
A reasonable question to ask, Mike.
Considering the fact that I am convinced that Miscavige doesn’t have the intellectual ability to act on his own.
This is going to be the last comment on this subject. You are proud of not having met Miscavige, yet know that he does not have the intellectual ability to act on his own. That should be enough to put an end to this foolishness.
But then you compound the nuttiness with a conclusion that is not based on any fact — somehow Tom Cruise was involved because I said Miscavige wanted to impress him? And that is “proof” that Miscavige didnt conceive this all on his own?
Because I tell you this is not a conspiracy, you pose silly questions as if to make a point: “Aha, do you think only the FBI should be allowed to consider the fact that conspiracies exist?” as if by asking the question you somehow have proven that I am anti-conspiracy theories and am one of the people forwarding the big cover-up.
With “logic” like this, you can arrive at ANY conclusion you wish.
I wish you would just look at the facts that are evident instead of trying to come up with an argument to support a conclusion that has no basis in fact.
I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between. Can’t quite get my wits wrapped around the concept DM invented these scams all by his self-appointed lonesome self, but had lots of support and backing from celebrities, whales and possibly other players who are generally not found in the brightest of limelights. Biz sharks like Bob Duggan I’m sure is right in there overseeing where his $40 million+ went to, and suspect such an “inside” council to exist. I don’t believe DM single-highhandedly makes all decisions without the input of others he has some accountability to. If I had that kind of coin to play with, I’d want to see the entire operation inside out and meet all the personnel involved that’s plotting the whole CO$ strategy before I part with some bucks, and most certainly would walk away if I found only a one-man “calls-all” show behind the scenes.
In light of all the negative media coverage DM has been getting, he has to have been getting major support from the inside to stay on. If the whales, celebs and other influentials were to get nervous about the church’s or their own PR, they’d push DM to resign for the greater good, or they’d walk away. I suspect they are all part of the same ill-fated scams, and continue to encourage DM to keep taking the pies in the face and stay strong. Sorry, the one-man gig just doesn’t fly for me either.
Well, it is one guy. In a system that was made to order for him. There are such people, I don’t know why some are surprised that Scientology attracted a sociopath who pushed himself to the top. Why is this so hard to deal with? There are individuals who do all sorts of things — and they are usually underestimated by critics. In fact, single individuals have accomplished FAR more than groups throughout history. Observe the obvious, don’t go looking for hidden things that “must be there”. Why? Because someone doesnt believe Miscavige has the intellect to “pull it off.” Believe me, he does. His problem is not IQ. Nor force of personality. Nor nerves. He is a classic sociopath.
Sounds like you speaketh sooth Mike.
I agree with Mike. And just look at Hitler. He pushed himself to the top and ran it all as one person. He had his juniors who helped him just as DM does. But he was the mastermind and “psychotic genius” of it all just as DM is. And Hitler’s IQ was probably lower than DM’s yet look at what destruction on a grand scale he committed as one person. So it is very conceivable that DM can and is doing just that right now before our very eyes.
Mike, it is in fact hard to deal with the concept of one sociopath pushing himself to the top without heavy-duty support … it doesn’t add up … that’s what’s obvious to me, nothing to do with looking for hidden things or the nature of anyone’s intellect … the support base DOES exist, it doesn’t make any sense otherwise.
It’s not that I don’t believe you at all, I’m quite sure of your conviction and accurate information you are sincerely sharing with us. Not even under question, but it does not fully add up for me, can’t make that fit, and nothing to do with any “engrained fundamental cult-think” or other such conspiratorial explanations. Perhaps it was that way at one time, but my intuition tells me otherwise in respect to PT. I do suspect DM is accountable somewhere, even though I have ZERO in the way of data or facts to exclaim anything. What I believe is irrelevant, what doesn’t add up for me … is another matter.
Yep, nothing I can do about that. It will be a mystery for you til the end of time I guess.
Mike, if in fact guys like Duggan, Cruise, Travolta et al do just blindly hand over the $ to DM without any leverage/oversight/accountability leaving him to call the show as he pleases all by himself, then yes, it’s truly a sad state of affairs. This would imply no one is taking any responsibility for anything. I realize the con can go pretty far, but this far … nearly unimaginable … and again, I’m not ascertaining anything.
This would also suggest than the aforementioned and many more do not know their PTS/SP tech, but you do? I’m pretty much a believer in any facts you tell me, and very rarely do I find any outpoints in your line of thought. I realize you were very high up, privy to much of the inside going-ons, but how can you be sure another strata did not exist beyond the sphere of your position? If you knew what was going on … DM single-handedly running the whole ship, why were the alarm bells not rung much earlier or request proof DM had the ultimate authority to call all the shots? Perhaps you have answered these oodles of times before, but then I don’t have the time to read absolutely everything. When I used to go to televised SCN events some 20 years ago, I was of the impression based listening to the Int management speakers on stage that this was run in a manner no different than any Class V org operated. I thought it run based on policy, it never occurred to me 1 single individual can do whatever he likes.
There is a lot written about this on Marty’s blog and in his books and elsewhere. The fact of the matter is that Miscavige was anointed by LRH as the person he trusted and placed astonishing levels of trust in. Was it well-placed? Obviously not? Had Miscavige manipulated himself into that position? Yes. He ran things based on the blessing of LRH. And Scientologists are indoctrinated into accepting every word uttered by LRH as being absolute truth. No need for thought or weighing of evidence. Miscavige has not done anything differently in running the church than LRH did — he exerts total control over all aspects of it, just the way LRH set it up for himself. The difference is in intent.
Mike,
I haven’t “met” Miscavige face to face. Nevertheless, I agree with your conclusion 100%,
It is not a case that I just believe this. The outpoints stack up in his area like a giant piles of mine tailings. Looking more closely we see well-documented allegations of crimes, cruelty, and greed that would put someone in prison for several lifetimes. We see the fun, workable, and treasured parts of Scientology discarded bit-by-bit and made less of as “old, out-of-date, not used anymore” while new definitions and non-LRH or improved-on-LRH stuff is put in place. We see stats crashing in the toilet, scientologists and the church ridiculed and laughed at almost universally (not a generality – I’ve seen it). Lies, lies, lies about the true state of things while he lives a billionaire’s life. Up and down the list – so many of the characteristics of an anti-social personality or major league sociopath in the common parlance – the caliber and cleverness of notorious sociopaths of history.
What is startling is his ability to pull the wool over the eyes of people purportedly trained to recognize such. I have observed a weird push/pull thing happen when he speaks… don’t know what it is exactly or how to explain it, but it is something I’ve perceived that happens when he speaks to crowds.
I jokingly tell my husband that if the night-time talk shows are right that there really are present time space opera aliens manipulating the activities of earthlings – wanting to keep them in ignorance, and if Scientology really were a threat that might free the workerbee slaves of earth, then getting an alien into David Miscavige’s body and getting him set up as COB to secretly destroy Scientology from within would be the perfect ploy.
Of course it’s just a joke, but I like this conspiracy theory better – much grander scale. I think it makes a good sci-fi story to add to other sci-fi stories that may or may not be true – if anyone wants to take on the task. What is not funny is the destruction done.
In any case, the simplicity is, he is a very clever sociopath. However, there are greater things in the world than he, and he is not immune to karma.
I appreciate whatever infos you have already made available. I’m not in any mental mode that I really need to know, so I won’t be chewing on it, but will watch for any data that may or may not become available. As I said, merely a datum I consider doesn’t fit into my sensibilities … so no worries.
Great. Thanks. New data for me, so he wasn’t quite 100% self-appointed. One would think if LRH drew up an organization based on checks and balances that’s he’d clip DM’s wings sufficiently so this could never happen … his defacto post for life.
I have always accepted it, by choice; and reject that as not yet proven to me as true as of this point in time. Furthermore, except for the odd student on course who indicated a given disagreement I haven’t come across much of it from others prior to 1995. Attentions were too absorbed in the wins I was having in Scientology to be concerned with that, otherwise I would have just left. Mind you, you and I probably came from completely different quarters of Scientology. Except for the ridiculous regerama and GAT retraining requirements (non-LRH), I never had much in the way of any disagreements, and otherwise a happy guy with the whole affair. A lot has changed since, so I cannot comment what has been going on there for the past 20 years.
Cool, thanks for the infos … and your attention and time.
Glad to be of service 🙂
“Biz sharks like Bob Duggan I’m sure is right in there overseeing where his $40 million+ went to, and suspect such an “inside” council to exist. I don’t believe DM single-highhandedly makes all decisions without the input of others he has some accountability to. If I had that kind of coin to play with, I’d want to see the entire operation inside out and meet all the personnel involved that’s plotting the whole CO$ strategy before I part with some bucks, and most certainly would walk away if I found only a one-man “calls-all” show behind the scenes.”
Just an observation, but if the theory that Miscavige can’t be acting alone is based on whales expecting / demanding some kind of say in matters based on their large donations – doesn’t that presuppose some arbitrary level of money donated at which common sense suddenly kicks in? What is the quantatative difference between the average shmo being suckered in for $1000 and Bob Duggan being suckered for $10,000,000? Why would the addition of the extra zeroes mean that the donor suddenly becomes aware enough to demand accountability?
Is it possible the exact opposite is true – the more money you donate to Miscavige, the more you are psychologically inclined to go along with the scam and believe the lie, because it’s too hard to admit to yourself you’ve been duped? I would think that the really big bucks donors are victims of that mind trap.
Not saying there wasn’t a second gunman on the grassy knoll, but in this case I think the preponderance of evidence does point to Miscavige successfully pulling off this con just using the built-in levers of mind control already there.
Yes Formost I tend to agree with you though I will not dismiss the possibility that the IC was involved in the decision to remove the original OT Levels from the Grade Chart.
There seems to be too much of a cause and effect relationship between the successes of the RV Program and the mysterious disappearance of those levels.
I’m sure some “skeptic” will say that those levels were a scam anyway just like the subject itself.
If so then why eliminate them?
Especially since those levels would just be another source of revenue just like any other Scientology level.
Those levels were replaced by NOTs. That was done by LRH. If it had not been, believe me they would still be being sold. They are very profitable to deliver. Of course you can pretty much just buy COHA and do them right out of there (and a lot more). If it’s a conspiracy to suppress the data then I guess whoever the conspirators are missed the book. And Tony Ortega better look out as he has published them all recently (they are also readily available on the internet and have been for many years).
Mike,
Oh yeah I’ve *heard* that the Ol’man canceled the Original OT Levels yet I haven’t seen anything in writing by *him* saying so.
BTW these levels are not just a rehash of what is covered in COHA.
I thought you knew better than that Mike.
I mean I’d expect Tony to not know shit from shinola about the subject but you Mike?
Hey you can go on believing that its all Miscavige and that he’s the where, who and why for everything.
Whatever.
believe anything you like Robin.
And I thought you would know better — LRH said EVERYTHING after COHA was an undercut. COHA is about as “out there” as you can get in Scientology as far as an effort to control the physical universe and rehabilitate the spirit. There is nothing more “advanced” than that. LRH said so.
I thought you would have known that Robin.
You probably also disagree that NOTs is something developed by LRH as you have never seen anything from him about that as all the HCOBs are “as assisted by” as he didnt write any of them. Or the RJ about the levels of the Bridge (Fromm Clear to Eternity?) that was not him either?
Maybe at some point you will be willing to accept information that doesnt match your preconceived theories. Or maybe not.
Whatever.
Mike,
Like I said Mike.
The original OT Levels and R1 COHA are not the same thing.
Also the comment regarding “advanced” appears in both C/S Series 2 and Current State respectively never said that these were the original OT Levels.
Another thing.
Where does Ron say that NOTs canceled them?
Besides NOTs is not an OT Level. It is a *pre* OT Level.
I’m always willing to accept that doesn’t match “preconceived theories”.
Why can’t you be willing to do the same?
I am Robin. The difference between you and me on this is what I have SEEN this. You assume something because you “havent seen it from the “ol Man”. You dont need to believe me. In fact, I dont want you to believe me. Read From Clear to Eternity. If the “old OT Levels” are not the “OT Levels” beyond NOTs, then how come the “ol Man” didnt say so in Clear to Eternity?
Also, I didnt say COHA were the original OT levels. I said COHA was the most ADVANCED technology LRH said he had developed and that EVERYTHING that came after it was an undercut.I am getting tired of you changing the statements and then regurigtating something and turning that into the argument.
I gave you what the “Ol’Man” wrote — you said you hadn’t seen anything in writing. So, why no response to that? It is probably the last thing he wrote about the bridge and what he said it should be. I cannot be bothered retyping it — you can find it here: https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/from-clear-to-eternity.109787/
This is the “ol’Man” — why is that not good enough for you? You started this by proclaiming that he had never said to replace the old OT levels with NOTs.
Do I need to go find the quote for you where the “ol’Man” says that everything after COHA is an undercut? Or that doesnt exist either because you have never seen it?
Yeah well Mike I can counter with the fact that an LRHED doesn’t cancel HCOBs such as 3 Feb 72 or PLs such as Technical Degrades or the Seniority of Orders.
But I won’t.
And yes if you can find the quote or at least direct me to the reference that says “everything after COHA is an undercut”, I’d appreciate it.
Thanx.
You never quit “countering” Robin. “I could counter with this, but I wont” (but you just did).
There’s always something else.
I can no longer be bothered with these debates. They don’t really enlighten anyone else and certainly don’t enlighten you, so I’m not going to be engaging in them further.
You are welcome to post comments here, and if I see something that I believe to be false, I will either delete it or respond briefly, but no more back and forth with me as I do not think it is productive. I have a lot of people who email me or communicated otherwise who really need some help and I am better served by trying to do something with them.
Mike,
I was trying to add a little levity to the discussion.
Anyway you are right.
We seem to be dancing around in circles here and really getting nowhere.
Let us say that we agree to disagree on some points and then move on.
The good thing is we agree on most things.
BTW both of us could be wrong and it has nothing to do with David Miscavige or the CIA but actually the Marcabians 🙂
LR
Ask any wealthy businessman what he would do before he invests that kind of coin? (And yes, the zeroes matter.) Stupidity was obviously not Duggan’s path to success. As I stated earlier, I indicated what I, and most other diligent oligarchs would do before handing over $40 million plus. Perhaps this type of supposed indiscretion doesn’t raise a red flag for you, but it certainly does for me.
Quite correct Mike. DM is very smart. Also, early on (before he took total control) his perceptions were really good. In that I mean he could observe people and such and see what was what. The problem as you have stated, is that he is a sociopath and thus doesn’t use his “gifts” for good. Simple as that.
Hi Robin.
Then the following reference would then not be LRH: HCOB 12 Sep 78R Dianetics Forbidden On Clears and OTs (1985 revision) (The 1978 version made no mentioned of NOTs since it had not been released at the time of that writing)
Excerpt:
“Anyone who is Clear but not OT III is to get through OT III immediately so he can receive this special rundown. After OT III, one does New OT IV (the OT Drug Rundown), then New OT V, Audited NOTs, followed by New OT VI (Solo NOTs Auditor Course) and New OT VII (Solo NOTs Auditing).”
I also read somewheres, can’t recall, where Class XII Pierre Ethier stated that the original OT levels were never withdrawn, but used well into the 90’s on cases that needed to be C/Sed for it.
I know nothing in respect to IC, so I can’t comment on it.
It would appear every Scientologist in Northern California drove over to Mountain View for this picture.
People “in” the Scio-Truman show say: “He’s a squirrel” for ANYONE using ANYTHING other than exact “tech” the “church” agrees on- (which is a joke, as now David Miscavige has changed TONS of the supposed “Standard Tech” including the definition of F/N! So now to hear “Indies” call others “Squirrel”?
Come on, people! You are *out* of the Truman Show. Let it go, please…for your health, as well as the health of others who *may* listen to you. My view is: I’m happy with people using whatever they want to use, however they want: AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT HARM ANOTHER. 🙂
Simple. “Give Peace a Change” 🙂
We used to say that back in the ’60’s! It still applies 🙂
My Best, Tory/Magoo
Well said, Tory! Too much bickering. Let It Be, as the Beatles said. Let’s look at everything in a new unit of time and grant beingness to others, even those with whom we might disagree.
And good point about squirrels too. They are actually kind of cute little fuzzy creatures. I understand Ron’s original use of the word to describe people who could not follow a straight line of clear instructions about doing anything, and were not particularly intelligent. However, the term has been way over-used and abused. The no-squirrel image with a poor little squirrel being x-ed out is particularly stupid. To display it to non-scientologists as the COS does just makes people think that those weird Scientologists might hate animals. Most normal people have an affinity for cute little furry animals. 🙂
Not to slur the cute creatures but like everything else; fns, basics, squirrel, dm has altered the meanings by continued misuse. Also by taking policy and statements that have specific or limited use and making them the ultimate datum. Eg: disconnection is right up there with the laws of listing and nulling. He can’t think straight or in any logical fashion with any correct priorities. Outpoints abound, everything is everything. He is a failed student & the ultimate squirrel.
Spot on, Tory. I could never understand how LRH so blithely discarded the worth of anyone who wasn’t following his dictums, exactly and precisely. And, of course, not paying for them.
To think that by simply taking a comm course, one was somehow transported into a different realm of human value, head and shoulders above all but the miniscule numbers of “other” scientologists! Us and “them”.
“Wogs” was another of those terms which made my stomach churn every time I heard it. It was a term coined by the empire building Brits to distinguish between the conquering Brits and all those who then stood conquered. (The word is still very much in use in GB, especially aimed at those of colour. Pathetic.)
I agree. I’ve always hated the term “wog.” And add to that the smug superiority complex that the SO staff have toward the public. They practically bite the hand that feeds them and then make fun of the stuff said in a confidential session amongst themselves. When you join the SO, you are told the rules you have to abide by and one of the rules is you cannot fraternize with public, even if they were your friends for decades before you joined. I asked why not? I was told that we are better than they and that we, as SO, have ethics presence and we don’t want to wreck that ethics presence by being equal to them or too familiar with them. It’s that “we are better than you” superior and condescending attitude that I hate. Ron never dramatized that.
I have always hated the word “Squirrel” as used against Scientologists…even from back when I was “in”. (not that I never used it, I did, when “in”..but it always felt a litttttttttttttle *weird* and it IS, imnsho, STILL.
Hi Tory,
I enjoy your videos and your joyful spirit, which I’m sure you recovered when you decided to “just walk across the street.”
I’m with you on hating calling other Scientologists “squirrels” but I hated the use of calling non-Scientologists “Wogs” even more! It was always a turn off to me, even when I was in. I never liked the “us vs them” mentality, and always saw people as people, regardless of their religion, race, sexual orientation or ethnicity.
I have also seen Scientologists call other Scns “psychotic” for things like living a distance away from PAC, not donating, not getting onto their next OT level, or still practicing the religion they were born into and raised in. Then they pride themselves on being part of such a tolerant religion. Sure. Just like you can still be your religion and be a Scientologist too. I fooled myself for a while on that one until the day I read the OTV Indoc with my auditor and found out that LRH was against prayer, something all religions practice in some form. So I concluded that was not true. That was an eye opener for me.
Pepper: Thank you! I *totally* agree with you re “wog”—super gross.
I also hated (and still find offensive and most often used incorrectly) “1.1” (which means-
‘the tone level of covert hostility). Due to having Epilepsy, and in Science of Survival (Chart of
Human Evaluation) it says “Homosexuals and Chronic Illness=1.1). So OFTEN I was treated
as a “1.1” “The most insidious tone level of ALL” Hubbard said.
Sorry, Mike…I know you may not post this as it’s not only against “Dave”…but that stuff SUCKED, and plz don’t someone say it was “Written by s/one else”. REALLY? Anyone who knows *me* knows one thing I am NOT is “Covert”. I’ll tell you any day how I feel, exactly, and I’ll ask you to do the same. “Downstat” =another BS term used to put people down. “PTS” ARGH! No wonder I was able to wake up! I was labeled “PTS” for 30 years: What a crock of shit. All because I have “Epilepsy”. Even the “Execs” in C of $ got w/ me in the 90’s to apologize and tell me my routing out of the Sea Org and taken off of my medication was WRONG.
Hello? REALLY? In 1989 at Flag (when I was “ordered off of the Flag Land base”) I got the ENTIRE Flag tech team CRAMMED (corrected) On Medicine. RTC and the Snr C/S wrote a Snr C/S policy saying “IF someone has tried to get off of their medication, and IF their Doctor Says it’s OK to get auditing…then they should be allowed to get auditing with their medication”. TA DA!~
My biggest “Win” while “in”. No doubt it helped many people.
Love to all 🙂 Tory/Magoo
Tory — I 100% agree with you. When I was in the hole I was trying to get an issue approved to change the definition of “psych drugs” as there are so many “illegal pc’s” now because MD’s prescribe “psych drugs”. I am happy I never managed to get it through Miscavige. I know you are referring to medical drugs, but the obsession about anything that is called a drug inside the bubble is insane. If Dianetics and Scientology work like they claim, then there should be no problem dealing with people who have taken drugs — including “mind altering” drugs as by definition, they are NOT their mind and the mind can be cleared of engrams.
Tory,
I hope you see this. I wanted to say that I was really disgusted by what you said about being labeled / treated as a 1.1 due to having Epilepsy. That is completely ridiculous and FALSE.
Doctors do not know the exact cause of epilepsy but do know how to treat it, which is essential to having a good quality of life.
I am a medical practitioner and can only say that I’m very sorry you were treated like that. There is a lot of ignorance in the CoS, regarding the handling of bodies. Sorry if I’m stepping on anybody’s toes, but that’s my experience and as I’ve been told, “false data” that I “got from University.”
While there is a lot that LRH could be criticized for in relation to the way things are now (such as policy governing OSA), it is a dead certainty that he would Declare Miscavige and his close sycophants into the Stone Age for all this utter greedy crap of IAS statuses and donation games, Ideal Org statuses and donation games, the regging/begging (only a one letter difference between those two words) to send VMs to outer mongolia, to send WTHs hither and yon, etc etc etc. It is so sickening. It is David Miscavige giving LRH the finger every single day. OSA, put this in your summary of the daily posts about Miscavige. David Miscavige is the biggest squirrel of all time, OSA staff you should be beyond ashamed at supporting and faciltating Miscavige in his squirrelling and eradication of what is good in Scientology. The squirrel busters should have been sent to do a documentary on Miscavige and stand outside his apartment building and the ASI offices in Hollywood.
+1 I agree!
“Therefore, every org HAD to be “ideal” in order to succeed.” This is like saying “Every child has to memorize the Encyclopedia before they can begin their education” BULLSHIT, “Dave”…STOP LYING TO THE MEMBERS AND IF you are “in” and Lurking: BAIL WHILE U STILL CAN!~(Note: I’ve been saying that for 13 years now and FAR too many members of the phony, fraudulent business pretending to be a ‘church”: The $cientology-Truman show, are now D E A D. Don’t wait!) Love to ALL 🙂
Thank you for all that you are doing Tory! Know that I direct Scientologists on the fence to your YouTube channel. You have a delightful way of telling otherwise very sad and horrible story’s. Many have commented on your bravery and fighting spirit after such a long time in the CoS. Love to you! ((HUGS))
Hey thanks SO much, Dissafected! I *really* appreciate you directing people to ToryMagoo44 on YT….so they can spend time learning facts $cientology will *never* tell them. Love you, too! (((Hugs)) 🙂 Tory/Magoo
They are awarded a Special Management Guest Speaker at their next event??? That is the friggin’ prize??? What’s 2nd place- 2 Guest Speakers?
Bingo!
One of my favorite videos is you two fishing and sharing stories!
What is the story on the St. Louis 101st Airborne? Surely no one would dare associate the honorable 101st AIrborne Division with scientology? I think the Screaming Eagles would be rightfully offended.
I think that the best orgs are those who have not made any points. It is a possibility that they may be on purpose.
Or there is nobody there? 🙂
Or both.
It’s been asked, maybe rhetorically, but I really want to know: why hasn’t DM been investigated or indited or something to do with this massive money skimming fraud? I saw ministers and preachers go to jail for that. Tammy Faye Baker and Jim Baker are only one or many examples. Why not DM?
In summary: Good lawyers. Lot of money. Litigious reputation. Careful to cover tracks (see Roy McGregor description of birthday and XMas gifts). Backed off government. First Amendment law. Nobody who is a civil servant wants to make Scientology their life.
Sigh. Well, we’ll have to figure out a more clever way to beat him at his game.
It seems to me that Hawaii is ahead in the game of clearing. Apparently they accomplished a field of cleared bank accounts! Now they can embark upon licking the road around the shoebox clean in graveyard shifts. Next in line: Albuquerque..? Sad, real sad.
The Fundraising BD Game? That something new? I am wondering if the points earned here are weighted so that they are worth more than the less important stats, like VSD, WDAHs, Student Points, # of auditors made etc?
Dear Dave,
You cannot maintain the illusion much longer. Word is getting out that not only do you rake up money and keep it for yourself but that you make Sea Org members take half of their $8 a week pay to buy you Birthday presents.
Much Love,
Pepper
Someone who never gave a penny to buy you a birthday present and never will.
This guy is such a prick! He should be giving all SO members HUGE bonuses for birthdays and Christmas. My contempt.
The staff contributions to DM birthday & christmas and special event presents are really important addition to his over-the-top pay and bonuses.
As the head of a non-profit he can get the church to buy him 10,000 dollar suits and pay for private jets for travel and pay for private hair dresser and on and on but there are some things he cannot buy with org money because they are designated “luxury items” and the IRS will not approve them.
For example, he cannot get the org to buy him a BMW for his personal use because this is a luxury car.
The org could buy many kinds of cars but not BMW or Porsche or Jag etc. Same thing with any kind of motocycle- that would have to come out of his pocket.
Thus he gets the org to cover anything that fits within the “religious leader” status, which covers a huge amount of luxury apartments all over the world, luxury clothes, audiophile sound systems (which cost hundreds of thousands of dollars) and so on.
Then for stuff like buying a motorcycle or a luxury watch he gets a slice taken out of every one of the 4000 Sea Org members staff pay – lets say $7 a week average for 1 month = $112,000.
This gets done at his Birthday and probably Christmas too. So he has VERY nice birthdays with stuff like luxury cars, collector edition watches, gold bullion and so on. And people wonder when he is going to “step down”. Dream on.
Data collection idea: Every ex SO staff member who knows of a specific present purchased for DM by the staff make a note of it here with the approximate date.
DM’s crimes are many but one of his worst is how he treats The Sea Org:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZsnFBo2Kc
Roy- thanks for that data, it makes sense now. I could not understand why Sea Org members who are paid about 6 – 35 cents an hour have to give up half or all of their pay for Dave’s birthday presents. Now that you point out the IRS requirements, it fits.
However, Miscavige has so much money at his disposal, couldn’t he find a way to siphon off some of it for personal luxury items? If he could do this and get away with it, does he not because he’s so cheap and miserly and is stockpiling money somewhere?
It’s just that its hard for me to believe that this guy “follows the rules.” He fancies himself to be above other human beings and the law.
Quite possibly, presents are given to him at various times of the year. 4-5 years ago, Morten A. came to my home and asked for a money flow for OT VIII for the Ship. He told me that it was “You know Who’s” birthday and that they had to buy him gifts. Only a week or two later, Morten suddenly passed away, much before his time. I believe this was in the summer – fall because it was very warm then and DM’s birthday is in April, is it not?
Anyway, I was very surprised to be asked to donate for the reason of birthday gifts for Miscavige! Which incidentally, I didn’t.
Roy, excellent idea to document the coerced “gifts” to DM from the paltry “wages” of SO members. I am sure it will be an eye opener.
You are correct that these “gifts” are his way around the purchasing of luxury items as the head of a non-profit organization/cult. I do hope, however, he is not declaring them and the IRS is looking (especially at the sudden/unusual pay increases to the SO at the same time they are collecting for the “gifts”–this goes a long way to prove criminal intent).
To me, what is worse, is his appalling and absolute greed in making SO members buy him these “gifts” (or ANYTHING) from their “wages” that barely cover personal care products like toothbrushes, razors and shampoo. He takes/demands these gifts despite the fact that he is secretly pilfering MILLIONS for his personal benefit through the for-profit entity–Author Services.
Because it is for-profit, there is no limit to what they can provide to him (salary or otherwise) without running afoul of the IRS non-profit rules (such as inurement). Rest assured, after routing out many from Author Services (see the superb Mike and Marty fishing videos), he is taking full advantage of this. JP Capitalist recently estimated that he may/could have siphoned off as much as $40 million during the Basic Book Campaign.
PS to Mike–wish you and Marty would do some more “let’s just talk and have fun too” (fish or whatever) while we do the videos. They are informative and just plain awesome! They also demonstrate that life can be good after prison life with Scientology.
Well, I have to go to Texas or he has to come here or we have to meet halfway. But there are some logistical problems (young boys) these days….
Forgot to mention the SO “wages” also are needed to buy underwear and undergarments, yet DM needs luxury shoes, shirts, cars and motorbikes, among so many other creature comforts. The offensiveness of it all is really beyond words. Anyway, here is one of Mike and Marty’s fishing videos (for those newly lurking and maybe on the fence) where they discuss Author Services and some of the comments above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x03d2peNX5o
I’ve heard of preachers getting arrested for this type of behavior. Why is he exempt? The Japanese man who personally handled DM’s finances left the SO in more recent times. Someone should find that guy.
Oh, he is around and has spoken to a lot of people — law enforcement and media.
Why Miscavige is not under indictment for unlawful inurement is beyond me.
My comments and links, in retrospect, are a bit adrift from IAS vs Author Services in my quick postings and outrage, but the point remains, and probably even more pertinent, when considering non-profit (and expenses) vs.for-profit orgs and the overall chicanery to steal from the very well-intended and defraud the government and its citizens at the same time. It is ALL fraudlent and disgusting.
Hope this ends up in the right sequence–after the mention of staff giving Davey gifts with their teeny weeny paychecks…..
Anyway, I wonder what happened to the gift of a nice big gold sculpture of a man and a woman speeding along on a motorcycle! Did he have the woman chisled off the back of the bike? Did he make someone sell it for him? Did he regift it? Melt it down? What a hoot!
Hey, let me know if you guys are onboard with this idea. I link my Paypal and you guys send me money. For every $1000 you get one point. Next monday whoever has the most points WINS! I will email you a commendation! Second and third place will be mentioned by name!
DOesnt this sound like FUN! What an UPTONE game!
Great idea! You could re-do your bathroom with the money. Even put in a bidet. All the fine homes have bidets.
🙂
The demented midget would say: Anyone who doesn’t agree this is an UPTONE and FUN game is just CICS! YSCOHB! YSYSYSYS!!! I Need some new John Lobbs you CICSes!!! Hand me all of your pay MFs!!
Dave’s the next target in the Zero Dark Thirty sequel.
Just FTR so it’s perfectly clear…”Chrismman”…is not Christman. Sounds fishy to me.
Tory Christman aka: Tory/Magoo
Chris Mann has been posting here and on Marty’s blog for years. Nothing fishy about him. Just coincidence Magoo.
My WordPress handle is chrismann9. I used to change it every time to Chris Mann, but sometimes i get lazy and just take the 9 off.
I’m on the indy500 list and am a “Dead file SP” 🙁
You’re missing some exclamation points.
Thanks Mike for the info, and Chris..so sorry. I had no idea and I stand corrected!! <<< And there are the exclamation marks for you, Anon. 🙂
New Game
WHERE’S HEBER ?
In the Hole
I posted this a long time ago: They want money, and any communications, staff phone calls, facades, targets, programs … any reason whatsoever … you name it, only exists to get at your money.
I never joined Scientology to finance bank account reserves, cathedrals, imaginary statuses & memberships, or legal machines & Stasi psy-ops. Except for some small amounts already included in your donation of services for legal fees, none of that is needed to deliver Scientology. The rest of it is a scam, no different than the one the Catholic Church ran of centuries past to enrich itself.
Neither did I Formost. I think that a huge percentage of people that became interested in Scn. didn’t either. The reason it has gone on for so long is that the data on money and secret ops has been intentionally hidden, so the average Scngst couldn’t get to the data or full picture. Most org or mission staff weren’t privy either. Only when one approached SO orgs with the increasing coercion, threats and stress, did one start to see something going on behind the facade. Then with all the stress and confusion and STILL no true data coming forth, comprehension and decisions were impeded. Thanks to the internet and particularly, SO whistle blowers, we have lots of internal data to sift through now. I am and always have been for total transparency. I took 15 years away to raise my kids properly and when I came back, and went to flag for the first time, I was absolutely shocked at how far Scn had gone downhill. I went to flag to do Scn and it wasn’t there. I got into Scn to live a spiritually motivated life, to help others rid themselves of spiritual barriers and eliminate my own. This game for money is incredibly off Scn’s purpose and those involved should be ashamed of themselves.
You put it very mildly Hallie Jane.
Amen.
I think the thing that I find most disgusting is this 10% (overts of) commission that not only staff and ex-staff but now public make on regging other Scientologists for IAS or Idle Org “donations”. Nice little scam set up by COB – gets at least all those people doing so “onside” as they are making a living now out of a bogus, off-policy and fraudulent operation. They will also be the same people who are “policing”, promoting, KRing and disdainfully nattering about any staff and public’s quite valid rebellious thoughts towards this scam as of course they have a more-than vested interest in maintaining the whole scam as it is. Criminals can’t work per LRH and I wonder where these “people” fit in on that scale? I wonder if many of these people were/are former “financial advisors” robbing old pensioners of their life savings? Same sort of criminal mentality.
And that’s really the point, isn’t it Hallie? This ISN’T the original Scientology. Those of us who were in a long time have something to compare it to. We know what it was like BM (Before Miscavige).
We know that it was fun.
We know that the money that was regged was going to make AUDITORS and Clears and above.
We knew that with a certain amount of Clears in the world, that that theta release would release other theta in our environment because of the Clear’s sphere of influence.
We knew that it took “X” amount of auditors to make “X” amount of Clears and above so we worked very hard (and happily) to make as many Auditors as possible and helped keep them in an environment where they could and did audit.
The products were AUDITORS MADE and PEOPLE CLEARED.
Fast Forward to 2014.
I can’t tell you how appalled I am to look around the world and see how much trouble people are in today. Domestic violence, drug abuse, people losing their minds from overuse of drugs, theta people committing suicide because they have no hope or are taking psych drugs…
Now, if we had continued the velocity of the 70’s – going from 12 staff to 90 staff in 3 years, for example – what could we have done with this last 35 years? Anybody good with math?
What could we have done with all of the money donated to the IAS, really? How much?
What could we have done with all of the people who would have completed the real comm course?
How many more people would have been Clear and could have destimulated their friends and family in their own sphere of influence?
Where would the world be today if we had been allowed to do what we were loving doing? How many people could have been helped?
How many people has David Miscavige doomed to death and/or madness because he had to have his Scotch, his cars, motorcycles and his empire?
That’s what really disgusts me.
Yes, Dave. YOU did it. And you know it, you grinning sociopath.
What a pity you didn’t save yourself before it was too late…
B’bye.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y2wqkD2KVM
Right on, Indie 8 Million!
For those of you “lurking” …. here you read it from someone who spent the greater part of his life inside Scientology working at the highest levels, Mike Rinder. The guy has credentials.
“..He has not spent the money he already had (more than a billion dollars) to make all orgs ideal and thus clear the planet. … ”
Billion with a “B”. Miscavige has you all conned.
He could have renovated the existing orgs with new carpet, chairs, tables, etc, and lowered the damn prices to allow everyone could afford to go Clear thereby making a more sane and safe culture.
Look don’t listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuQC5hhhqkY
Thankfully he didn’t becuase the fewer people who get sucked into the delusion the better. Engrams and the state of Clear do not exist, they were figments of LRH’s imagination invented to con people out of their money.
Philip,
Fine….that’s your opinion. No need to spend any more time on the subject: Don’t do any auditing, don’t read any LRH materials, don’t listen to anyone who felt they got anything from Scientology. Why waste any more time thinking or reading or writing about it? I am quite sure no one here needs you or anyone else to save them from Scientology, so it is OK for you to move on.
Leonore,
One lesson I learned after leaving the church (as someone who also still practices portions of Scientology) is that religious and spiritual intolerance is a cult-manufactured flaw, that long predates 1950.
Let people believe how they want to believe. It’s one of our most precious god-given freedoms. And to them, the same to you.
I don’t think Philip needs to move on, nor does anyone except the blog owner have the authority to tell any of us to move on.
Philip’s point is well taken, and it poses a fair challenge to believers. I’ll put that challenge in my own words: someone, anyone, show me just _one_ clear or OT VIII as originally defined by Hubbard. If the states of clear (homo novis) and OT VIII are real, they can be shown to the satisfaction of any researcher or scientist.
If they are real states, withholding that proof from validation is the greatest overt of omission Scientology could commit. Conversely, providing that proof would result in immediate, world-wide, unstoppable expansion of Scientology.
There are a number of ways Scientology could open itself up to research that would validate its views and practices. Scientology, if it wished, could take such questions out of the realm of opinion. But it does not wish to do so. I believe that it is because it knows the results would not support the claims.
Some researchable factors:
1. Show that Narconon achieves better rehabilitation rates than other programs, and that its recidivism rate is less.
2. Work with researchers to confirm or not confirm the existence of engrams (and locks, secondaries, and other phenomena). (Earlier research could not confirm the existence of engrams.)
3. Show documented IQ increase compared to control groups and other practices.
4. Show lower incidence of health problems among Scientologists compared to the general population and other religions (e.g., cancer, high blood pressure, high bad / low good cholesterol, better eyesight, better dental health, Alzheimers, MS, etc.).
5. Test and prove or disprove Hubbard’s theories on things like vitamins, radiation, cure of arthritis, and on and on through his many claims.
6. Show that Scientologists live statistically significantly longer lives than the general population or believers in other religions.
7. Show a clear with perfect recall and other abilities as described in DMSMH and earlier versions of the grade chart.
8. Show an OT VIII who can exteriorize at will and identify things remotely with accuracy, who can objectively demonstrate being at cause over MEST, and perform the other abilities described by Hubbard.
9. Show lower divorce rates than other groups.
10. Using validated psychological tests (which rules out the Oxford) show overall better mental and psychological function than seen in the general population and other religious groups.
11. Show evidence of the existence and radioactive residue around the “wall of fire” volcanoes from their supposed bombardment 60 MYA.
12. Show evidence of freight trains, or any sort of civilization or sentient life on Venus.
13. Show of even one invention, system, insight, or technology that someone remembered from the “whole track” that can better life on Earth, and which cannot have been discovered by any other known aspect of current science.
14. Show the results from auditing past life memories that can be verified from historical records and which the PC or pre-OT could not have otherwise known about from any other possible source.
As Sagan used to point out in other contexts, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If Scientology is real, it should be able to deliver the preceding 14 items and many others. But can Scientology provide such proof? After all, it has had over 60 years to accumulate the proof.
@ Phillip
shame it didn’t work for you.
I’d say that’s just one man’s opinion. Having experienced both, I’ll stick with my own personal reality. 🙂
Hello Philip,
I can see you have a set point of view and do not deviate from it. I sometimes agree with some of your points and disagree with others. You can have your point of view and think /believe whatever you want. I have no problem with it at all.
Leonore~ +1 My sentiments exactly.
Listen to Doug Parent! Right on the money!
Right FOTF2012! I couldn´t agree with you more! Let´s get the evidence!
+1
“…is going to one for the ages” – lol. Grammatical errors abound. In each and every flyer there are doozies just like this. Study tech work much? Or, is someone, some people, some group, PTS? If so, I wonder to whom?
Note how the original objective of LRH’s Birthday Game has been subverted. Expansion by more auditors and WDAH is replaced by $$$$.
And the sad part is that those still in the church don’t see it . . . .
That IS sad. 🙁
Recently received this cheerful missive – “You are invited to come and study in my new courseroom in our new ideal org. Were you at Grand Opening last week? ARC, Dick 0”
Dick O is a sweetheart. I was the one who gave him that name. Back in the early 80’s when I went to his courseroom and he told me his name, Dick Orchu (sorry about the last name spelling), I told him I would call him “Dick-O” as in “Book him, Dan-O)” from Hawaii 5-0 show on TV. I teased him about, “Book him, Dick-O” and that is how he got that name and it stuck.
Who knew?! Sweet guy but not a good enough reason to be in his course room.
Orchiu. Ex wives, Susan and Linda. All good people. It also kept him differentiated from “Dick C”, Dick Coanda, who left the SO maybe 8 years ago and then became an active supporter of the independent field.
HI Dan, I remember Susan Orchiu. Was she before or after Linda? And what is Susan doing nowadays? Also any word on Bob Asivido?
Karen coined a good one on her latest video: “Patron Blovitorious”.
And the winner gets awarded a ‘special’ Management guest speaker. Meaning these days Management Executives are shown as a winning price? Couldn’t get more degrading than this.
A slice of hell.
I think the devil himself has banned the gates to the sheeple.
I would think the loser would get a visit from Management. Send Norm to Albuquerque to see the collapsed roof.
Looks like they need Tom DeVocht.
It could get worse, be successful and get an Int speaker and then a SO Mission sent to destroy all your “good” work…just so you know your place (under the thumb)
AND a custom Ideal Org Newsletter… wtf does that even mean?
GTBO – that was my first thought too – I have yet to see an org do well and be left to just get on with it. Each and every single one of them get destroyed by Int missions. Bunch of bloody idiots!
Scientology creates really stupid games that really are not any fun. When most people play games, they have a lot of fun. Theses birthday games in Scientology are simply an effort to make everyone work harder but for what? Scientology today is smaller than it was decades ago despite all of the many birthday games being played. Even when I was in and believed in Hubbard the birthday games were not fun nor enjoyable. I would much rather play a game of softball or even a computer game like “Plants vs Zombies”. There are a lot of enjoyable games to be played. Scientology sure isn’t one of them.
Amen!
“If somebody were using ideal org campaign funds for other purposes, they wouldn’t care about completions, only the funds raised.” You got that right Rod!
Agreed Dean. I hated the BD game from the beginning. 5.4X was supposed to be a “make break point” for the orgs. We had orgs with 2 staff members – 10.8 staff members were not going to make it solvent.
Dean, the main reason these games aren’t fun is because nobody wins anything. All that effort comes to nothing, there’s no change, not one scrap of difference, no-one is any better off, least of all the public, who continue to pass by the front door, utterly oblivious. A special guest speaker? God help us, where’s the exit?
I was on Class 4 org staff when the Birthday Game came out….like January 1974-ish? Something like that. The LRH ED came out describing the game, that he didn’t want a tie or a big cake, he just wanted statistics, production, which back in those days were counted honestly. I think.
But the org I was in had a strange response. The Day org and Foundation org HASes agreed to just simply double-post everyone. Everyone was just going to be made to hold their same post on the other org as well as the post they were already on. If that post was already held by someone else, they took another position in the same division. Maybe that came from higher up, some FOLO or Flag order. I was too green to realize that.
Probably 80% of the staffs worked 9am to 10 or 11pm every weekday and 9am-6pm Sat. and Sun. To win the Birthday Game. Study time went out the window.
For about two months the orgs were buzzing with lots of staff and there was a bit of fun and challenge, but there were people on both staffs who also had jobs and they couldn’t and didn’t work on both orgs.
Now during this time with all this additional personnel neither HAS recruited any more people to replace the additional staff they had just received. So when March 13th came and the Birthday Game was over, a lot of staff wanted to just bail and go back to only their one post on the original org they joined.
We were all told that if we did that we’d be declared for blowing staff. What??? Some just took off, some stayed and toughed it out. The HASes were wannabe bullies and the new “executive” style seemed to be effective! Some people stayed on for a little longer.
But the orgs shrunk into desperation as a result of that insightful leadership, and the Day org ended up with about 5 people when they had more like 15 when the BIrthday Game started, and the Fdn org ended up with about 9 staff when they had about 35 to start out with. It took many years to get the two orgs staffed up a bit more again, but never to those numbers in 1973 and early ’74.
A little horror story for which I’m sure some of the execs took full credit for whatever was accomplished in BIrthday Game stats. Can’t imagine why the orgs shrunk so bad though…gee–wonder what happened! Musta been an SP in there somewhere….
So which matters more, getting an ideal org done, or the amount of money raised towards an ideal org? If somebody were using ideal org campaign funds for other purposes, they wouldn’t care about completions, only the funds raised.
I’m so sick of hearing about these “statuses”.
If anyone has the stomach or the time for it, publishing a list of ALL the statuses from all sectors around the Scn world along with all these ridiculous org monikers (juggernauts, etc.) would sum up the whole problem at a glance. Head it with an LRH quote such as this one:
“Every time I myself have sought to solve financial or personnel in other ways than Scientology I have lost out. So I can tell you from experience that org solvency lies in more Scientology, not patented combs or fund-raising barbecues.”
@morelivesthanacat: “I’m so sick of hearing about these “statuses”.”
I could not have said it better. There is not a word in those birthday games (hunger games?) flyers about well done auditing hours or training successes or even books sold.
Whatever else one may think about Scientology, it’s now largely just one repulsive fundraiser “status” drive after another. They are off mission. The vision is perverted from theta (spirit) into MEST acquisition. By their own system, they are out exchange, out ethics, and down stat.
I could vomit!!!
Up-chuck your status!