The latest internet smear on me is a video from a person (Hans Smith) who claims I punched him.
That may be true, though I don’t recall it and I had little interaction with him. But I have admitted (and so have many others) to punching people when in the Sea Org. At the top of scientology, if you were NOT willing to use physical violence you were considered too weak to hold your post.
There are numerous witnesses who can testify to the culture of violence at the top of scientology, many of whom watched David Miscavige dishing out beatings on an assortment of senior scientology officials. This was first disclosed by the St Petersburg Times back in 2009, but there have been numerous reports since then from virtually every person who was at the International Headquarters of scientology near Hemet California. In fact, scientology itself has admitted that it was a culture of violence — though they claim it was all perpetrated by those who are no longer there (particularly Marty Rathbun, me and Tom DeVocht). They could never answer the questions posed to them by Anderson Cooper (among others) who wondered why if there was so much violence happening: a) it was not reported to law enforcement and b) how is it Miscavige could not know about it?
There is graphic court testimony from Debbie Cook detailing sadistic behavior by Miscavige and how he ordered others to dish out physical punishments on his behalf — including on women. We have covered it in Aftermath episodes, including one this season with the Headleys, Amy Scobee and Jefferson Hawkins. So too, many other media.
There is some thought that the blame for this lays solely at the feet of David Miscavige. It is true, he perfected the technique of physical violence to go along with the mental torture to keep people off balance and in line. But he was NOT the original architect of the idea that a beating or two (or three or a hundred) will go a long way. As with EVERYTHING in scientology, it was Hubbard who laid out the blueprint for scientology and everything in it.
He penned a very well-known piece called “Ethics, The Design Of” which is found today in the Introduction to Scientology Ethics book. It is a parable everyone in scientology knows — a tall tale from Hubbard’s childhood. But it tells scientologists how Hubbard expects them to conduct themselves:
To give you an example, when a little boy this life, the neighborhood a block around and the road from home to school were unusable. A bully about five years older than I named Leon Brown exerted a very bad influence over other children. With extortion by violence and blackmail and with corruption he made the area very dangerous. The road to school was blocked by the 5 O’Connell kids, ranging from 7 to 15 who stopped and beat up any smaller child. One couldn’t go to school safely and was hounded by the truant officer, a hulking brute complete with star, if one didn’t go to school.
When I was about six I got very tired of a bloody nose and spankings because my clothes were torn and avidly learned “lumberjack fighting” a crude form of judo from my grandfather.
With this “superior tech” under my belt I searched out and found alone the youngest O’Connell kid, a year older than I, and pulverized him. Then I found alone and took on the next in size and pulverized him. After that the O’Connell kids, all 5, fled each time I showed up and the road to school was open and I convoyed other little kids so it was safe.
Then one day I got up on a 9 foot high board fence and waited until the 12 year old bully passed by and leaped off on him boots and all and after the dust settled that neighborhood was safe for every kid in it.
Recently, someone dug this up, which gives a more explicit statement of intent and action than a parable from his past:
And he formalized the concept, specifically for the Sea Org, in this Flag Order (the specialized “policy” of the Sea Org):
Being physical with someone in scientology is perfectly acceptable — especially in the Sea Org.
It is another part of the brainwashing that “what we assert is good for scientology is good for everyone” (otherwise stated as “the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics”).
David Fists in Fury carry the cult on. Old pour salt in their wounds.
I grew up in Scientology and worked for Hubbard nearly 6 hrs a day for 11 years – 8 years on the Apollo. It was not a violent atmosphere the majority of the time. Hubbard did have a violent temper and not only yelled but whined and moans a lot but he was not into daily, weekly, monthly, etc beatings and neither were the officers and crew. My understanding, while in the Sea Org for 22 years, of FO 2710 shown above, that it was a comm ev offense to hurt another Sea Org member – it was not acceptable and was an ethics offense to hurt someone. In the 11 years as covered in my two books, Commodore’s Messenger A Child Adrift in the Scientology Sea Org and Riding Out the Storms with L. Ron Hubbard, I tell of maybe four instances where Hubbard did physically hit someone: two instances related to the safety of the ship, one was for stating LRH had Rock Slams (an e-meter needle reaction) and the other was striking a man for having had sex with a girl under the age of 18. The abuse of today’s “Church of Scientology” has taken abuse to a whole new level.
Did LRH order others to hit others? If so, how many times do you recall?
How many times were people thrown off the ship? How many people sustained injuries (mental or physical)? Why was that not an “ethics” offense?
Just wondering.
Thanks for any answer.
The violence also existed in the Sea Org in the early seventies. I was roughed up my Al Bornstein, now Kate Bornstein (who has profusely apologized to me) at FOLOEUS.
Hubbard was a dangerous person.
Haha! A good smack in the kisser never hurt anyone! I begin to see why your mate Dave (and you it seems) would do so after reading the articles and comments on here! But before anyone launches into a vitriolic tirade that i am condoning such – I am not. Now, I held an Exec position in the Church and those that knew me knew that they would get a swift right hook if they tried it it on with me – so I was never ever threatened with such – quite simple – as LRH says it’s called “Ethics presence”.
I notice however your deflecting comments above about the high board fence etc. which again you are taking out of context in order to camouflage your own “sins” in this light and of course all the usual baying hyenas going into agreement with your hyperbole. If you, Dave and all the other so-called Execs had actually followed policy all this nonsense would never have occurred. But as I say, a good smack in the kisser for all you Namby-Pambies never really hurt anyone and I am sure you all deserved it – haha! Cue the usual “shock horror” replies now!
What is so odd FP is that with each comment where you seek to rebut or disprove something, you yourself provide the best evidence of the very truth of it. It’s an amazing talent you have.
Fool, I AM truly sorry for your deranged state of mind. I don’t know if it is from damage sustained in the cult of Hubbard’s or if you were insane before joining. I DO hope that someday you reach out for real mental health care.
There comes a point when taunting the insane becomes abuse of the disabled.
Wynski,
I think he may have been dropped in his head as a baby. Repeatedly. However, you are correct in saying that responding seems like abuse of the disabled- However, in this case I make an exception as it’s so funny to rile him up.
FP says
“…….and those that knew me knew that they would get a swift right hook if they tried it it on with me – so I was never ever threatened with such – quite simple – as LRH says it’s called “Ethics presence”.
Such a plethora of words to reveal as Hubbard’s dark side. FP, thanks for revealing your understanding of ethics presence. It was Ron’s also.
What great insights into the degeneration of word definitions. Ethics peresence as willing to kick the shit out of people.
FP, you are such a valuable voice. Ethics presence means able to kick the shit out of people…… lol!
This is your mind on Scientology.
Willingness to do so isn’t actually doing so, or have you also misduplicated that as well. And of course i never actually had to do so unlike the admission of your role model above. This is your mind on “Scientology”. Yet another misunderstanding, tut tut Brian, you really should have done the PRD. With every comment you embarrass yourself further.
Once again Logicproof your insanity got the best of you. There is no way for anyone to KNOW that you would hit someone unless they saw you DO it under those circumstances. Unless, you walked around blathering to everyone how you would hit people if they did X to you.
Don’t worry No-Wynski, you’ll never understand this. But keep commenting, anyone with any intelligence can see the lack of such in your comments.
SO Members would come to Class V orgs on Mission regularly and their use of Flag Orders rocked the boat for trained Class V staff.
The FOs were ‘confidential, SO ONLY’, so when a Missionaire was giving orders contrary to LRH Policy, or doing things that were off policy, if you challenged them on their reference for their action/order you would be met with, “its according to an FO”.
There was NOTHING to be done about it, the word was final and to push back got you physically removed from the Org and kicked off staff. This happened over and over again. SO missions were pogroms, if there wasn’t mass scale removals, there would be at least a few, “heads on pikes”, we gotta show them a WHY and a WHO, folks.
This created a Hidden Data Line. The HDL policy was OFTEN pulled out and was widely known. It was a concept right up there with production and moral, downstats are made, and MUs lead to O/Ws.
When you pointed out to the SO Missionaire that their FOs were acting as an HDL, you didn’t get anywhere at all..
……
There is a lecture (“Individuation”? maybe that’s what it was called) … wherein Hubbard talks about how Execs will commit O/Ws routinely as a part of their job, it just happens when big powerful beings are getting things done… so it was policy that senior Execs needed to get sessions routinely to pull off the O/Ws so he doesn’t cave himself in from the o/ws committed getting the job done.
It was a help flow to the exec and was not done as punishment, it was like keeping your car tuned up.
“Good execs are hard to come by!!! They’re valuable!! Powerhouse Big Beings getting things Done have “facility differential” and “Ethics Protection”.
The lecture talked about when you see an Exec starting to “kill off all the staff around him”, start going a bit nuts, you knew that HCO was not taking care of the exec and it was past time to pull him in and give him a session to fix him up.
I knew all of this… and this was what kept my mind right as I saw Execs and SO members going off the rails with behavior… I would blame HCO, never the exec.
….
So you have conflicting policy/tech on acceptable behavior, diametrically opposed – secret policy known to some and held from others, so was just a matter of who was wielding the sword . Winner is the guy with the highest post, the most protection, the biggest bully….
Ethics protection for Upstats meant nothing. Time and again, it depended upon if you were in favor or not.
This FO is important. In Scn, you think that we’re all rising to clear and OT and we get more and more sane and there’s much less fuss, the higher you go, the more competent you become, all is smooth and everything just gets done and expansion happens in this ocean of sanity, saving the world.
This FO helps to understand and see more of the components to the Crazy. (Let’s have a policy that says it’s ok to beat people up, and have it be secret for just SO, yay!)
……..
So glad I’m out.
Thanks, Mike. Great article.
Superb comment, Rip. Very enlightening.
Thank you for that fascinating comment!
One of the key ‘disconnects’ that led me to leave scientology was the way staff were treated by seniors. Although I did not witness fists being used, the shouting, berating and purposely overwhelming fellow staff was abhorrent. This was down to the Mission level, with Fred Harris’ calls. Also at the Class IV org level, and in the GO. All in the name of ‘do whatever it takes to get the result’ or ‘greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics’. So what if someone gets crushed along the way…we are saving the planet.
Hey Mike, I am not getting email notifications. I remever this happened once before and you fixed the problem. Thanks for a great blog.
Web admin trying to resolve this. Let me know in a few days if it has sorted out.
Yay!!!!!
Hey mike.
I haven’t either. It’s been well over a few weeks. I’ve been hoping it would appear back In My email. For now I’ve been google searching this great site of yours.
Scientology, a history of violence on CNN with Anderson Cooper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIE4iOjn4Lw&list=PL97bG9F7T-UfbWG17flpaFJg8pUw75W89
perfect.
Thank you.
Hold on. Hold ON.
This “Flag Order” transcripted here, from this LHR person – while condoning “rows” and confrontation as an advisable and RECOMMENDED means of “action” – ACTUALLY said that “We are not in the behavior business. We will leave that to others”.
Hold ON. This is claiming to be a doctrine worthy of following?
Man, this is irresponsible. To the point of criminality.
The HELL they weren’t/aren’t in the “Behavior business”. At any chance, they’d punish you just on another’s say-so ( in a KR) that you MIGHT have done something slightly inappropriate. Didn’t require proof, of course, since ‘no SO member would lie in a KR….’ AND in a sec check, any ‘out ethics’ behavior disclosed gets you sent directly to the MAA for punishment.
Just another case of Tubby saying one thing while doing the exact opposite.
I think we may keep this one thing in mind:
We are having a “full moon” just now (around Feb 27, 2019) and the “Full Moon” is usually a time when people often act intensely excited and behave in a manner that is unusual for them. It’s most unlike our normal behaviour. But, what you gonna do? There is not much you can do. I do know that most members of Scamology do behave in a manner that is very unlike normal for them. But “Full Moon Fever” usually has little or nothing to do with Scamology. It is behaviour that instead owes itself to astrological conditions – whether or not you believe in astrology.
If you think it’s crazy to believe in some hocus pocus science like “Astrology”, I think of it like this: If the moon is able to create a ripple in space-time that causes ocean waves to behave differently than their normal behaviour, then how reasonable is it to assume the movement of the moon may also affect the behaviour of human beings who are mostly comprised of water? I believe that the motion of the moon may very well have some kind of impact on human behaviour and it may cause people to behave differently around the time of a “Full Moon”. Many people seem to believe that people do behave in a more “excitable” way around the time of a full moon. But please take it or leave it for whatever you think it may be worth.
Skyler,
Not sure how much I believe in astrology but the word “lunatic” has its root in “luna” > the Latin for “moon”.
I’ve read that mental patients need more medication to stay calm when the moon is full. I don’t know this, I just read that its true.
Fun fact: a friend of mine rents an apartment next to a crazy woman. She complains that he runs his air conditioner 24/7 all year round, even in the wintertime. Its not true. He runs his AC in the warm weather. She hammers on his door at night telling him to shut off his air conditioner because she can’t endure the noise. Half of the time in the summer its not even on because he’s doesn’t like AC that much. He’s changed his AC twice so far. You can barely hear it inside, let alone outside. His landlord has affirmed that his AC is virtually noiseless. She’s totally mental. She harasses him. There’s nothing he can do. She pays her rent so there’s nothing the landlord can do. In the wee morning hours sometimes, he hears her moaning and and sometimes howling. He feels sorry for her. A while back I asked him to see if the moon was full when she makes these noises. Back then he said he’d let me know. I’ll remind him now.
Aquamarine: Remember “Crazy is as crazy does. The crazy renter woman was crazy. Nothing in your story indicates a full moon —OR a time-of-month, which seems the more likely cause if she wasn’t just clinically loopy. If she’s moaning and howling in the wee hours, does she have a particular gentleman caller those nights? 😉
Ha ha ha! Thanks for the laugh, Jere. Just to clarify, I asked my friend if the moon would be full on those nights of her howling and moaning because of my own interest in the link up between the meaning of the word “lunatic” and its etymology, “moon”. In other words, how or why does the moon effect insane people, making them more “active” during full moon phases? That interests me. Now, as to whether this woman is not alone when she’s moaning and howling in the wee morning hours, yes, its possible. Unlikely, given how mental she is, but possible. 🙂 Maybe she’s not howling at the moon and there’s a far more down to earth reason for her nocturnal noise 🙂 To quote Sherlock Holmes “When you eliminate the impossible, what remains, no matter how improbable, is the truth”.
Aqua,
While it seems like an interesting theory, and we do see more activity sometimes during he night, it is generally due to the sleep disturbances that some people who suffer from mental illness have. The root of the “lunacy” idea likely had roots in pagan rituals and beleifs where evil was more prevelent at night- just think about how scary things are when you can’t see them- even if you know there’s no one standing in your kitchen with a butcher knife, the “thought” of it becomes more intense at night due to lack of light and other normal noises, activities etc. this has been kind of magnified by Christianity when priests said the devil did his work at night. Now imagine you are mentally unstable and possibly paranoid!! I’d likely moan and scream at where my mind took me. The incidences don’t really have a correlation to the moon per se. the same is true in OB wards. Some nurses will swear there are more births during a full moon, but the statistics and reality don’t show it. It’s more likely that they ‘expect’ it to be hectic and so they ‘perceive’ it to be true. I’ve worked in hospital settings for years, and there really isn’t an increase in craziness. It’s completely harmless to beleive in it though!
Thanks for your interesting response, Kat.
I’m not informed at all about the moon’s effects, if any, on human behavior. Ignorant and curious, yes; informed, no. Fine with me if its a merely a superstitious myth because THE MYTH ITSELF is interesting to me, linked as it is to etymology. I’m an etymology NUT. the root meanings of words, in what form and in what country the words we use today began; how their meanings evolved over the centuries, what they meant then, what they mean now. I LOVE looking up the ROOT meanings of words, tracing them back, back, back, back thru the ages, thru the Middle English, the Old English, Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, whatever…
Now, I’m going to stop with the etymology thing here because to date everyone I’ve EVER known with the exception of my sophomore high school English teacher has found this subject to be not only decidedly UNinteresting but mind-numbingly boring as well 🙂
But again, thanks for offering plausible reasons for people long associating the moon with madness.
AQUA: I agree it would be interesting to see if there were an actual connection between luna, our moon, and actual lunacy, but I think any causal link might have been found by now if it existed, given the long-standing interest folks like us have in the subject. Then again,I see how it might be possible that some crazies go crazier during a full moon because it ‘gives them permission’ to do so. I remember a few times when buddies and I got a little wilder while the moon was full. Thus the myth might not be a result of events, but there could be more numerous events because of the myth.
Aqua,
I’m a word nut too, so I really appreciate what you are saying! My mom was an English teacher (so was her mother), so it’s in my DNA. I also love myths and legends, so no worries!
Today’s moon phase is waning gibbous or waning crescent if you prefer. Illumination is about 40%.
Skyler,
The “moon madness” isn’t actually a scientific reality. There have been repeated studies and no correlation between phases of the moon and behavior, illness, psychiatric episodes etc. could be found. I know that some nurses and doctors beleive it’s true, but it’s not. Sorry!
SKYLER,
I believe there was a fairly broad study done of the “Full Moon phenomenon” a few years back. (might have a Penn & Teller “Bullshit” episode.) Long and short is that a full moon doesn’t do anything but put emergency workers on edge.
My dog insists on staying out all night during full moons, though rain nor cold influences that. I’m pretty sure it’s the bright light illuminating “her” grounds that make her want to be outside.
Or maybe she’s a lunatic dog. As stubborn as she is, sometimes I wonder.
I think we all should keep this one thing in mind.
We are having a “full moon” just now (around Feb 27, 2019) and the “Full Moon” is usually a time when people often act intensely excited and behave in a manner that is unusual for them. It’s most unlike our normal behavior. But, what you gonna do? There is not much you can do. I do know that most members of Scamatoloogy do behave in a manner that is very unlike normal for them. But “Full Moon Fever” usually has little or nothing to do with Scamatology. It is behavior that instead owes itself to astrological conditions – whether or not you believe in astrology.
If you think it’s crazy to believe in some hocus pocus science like “Astrology”, I think of it like this: If the moon is able to create a ripple in space-time that causes ocean waves to behave differently than their normal behaviour, then how reasonable is it to assume the movement of the moon may also affect the behaviour of human beings who are mostly comprised of water? I believe that the motion of the moon may very well have some kind of impact on human behaviour and it may cause people to behave differently around the time of a “Full Moon”. Many people seem to believe that people do behave in a more “excitable” way around the time of a full moon. But please take it or leave it for whatever you think it may be worth.
Skyler sez:
“I believe that the motion of the moon may very well have some kind of impact on human behaviour and it may cause people to behave differently around the time of a “Full Moon”.”
If this were true, surely Dr. Hubbard would have discovered this principle and made it widely known just as he discovered and published the thoroughly researched facts of Dianetics and Scientology. I believe that he would have included this information in the Super Power Rundown along with the 57 other widely known perceptions of a Thetan for the benefit of al Mankind. Since Dr. Hubbard didn’t ever mention this stuff about Full Moons it must surely be just another wog superstition. In fact, all a being needs to know about life outside the confines of this gawd awful prison planet are that the Van Allen Belt is kind of warm, Target Two is responding nicely to the Tech and will be Clear in no time, those implant stations on Mars are definitely something to avoid, any space opera stuff that one encounters in their auditing is most definitely real and valid and that the Universe is many trillions of years old. So there.
Its amazing to me that the organization which purports to be responsible for “getting ethics in on the planet” must at times use extreme measures as part of their routine with regard to orders being carried out or not, as the case may be.
One would think that the Sea Org with its lofty purpose would be more than capable of receiving proper compliance to their orders with communication alone, that the execs would be expert communicators conveying the importance of their orders being carried out properly with their superior communications skills, persuading the unwilling or confused subordinate with civility , with reason and understanding, instead of having to fall back on physical violence to obtain the necessary compliance.
That’s the bully’s way. “Might makes right”. Totally “wog”. To use one of Hubbard’s expressions, “That’s very homo-sap”.
Now, some people can ONLY be controlled via threat of physical violence. They’re out there, such people. They CANNOT be reasoned with. They’re out there. But then, what is one doing with such people? Let them go! Don’t BEAT them into submission because that’s the only action that works. Get rid of such people, replace them with others who don’t need to be beaten or verbally abused in order for them to do their jobs.
Of course, this is ALL tongue in cheek.
Miscavige is a psychopath who has to beat people, bully people, abuse them physically and mentally and he sets the example from the top down.
Miscavige is the head bully who seems to enjoy showing dominance over his group- however, if the power were taken away he would, like all bullies, show himself for the coward he is.
Hubbard was the same- he controlled through fear and intimidation but ONLY after he had indoctrinated people to not fight back. If someone would have fought back, I have no doubt that Hubbard (like Miscavige) would be huddled crying under the desk in fear.
You got it 100% right, Kat. Truly strong people manage others by bringing out the best in them, by communicating with them in such a way as to make them WANT to work and follow orders. I’ve seen it done.
Truly strong people are not bullies. Its sad that so many people nowadays seem to consider anyone who talks tough and belittles others, “strong”. Big mistake; they’re not.
Ran across one of the “truth rundown” videos where Marty says he merely clenched his stomach muscles when the dirty midget went to bit him there. The pipsqueak hurt his hand and went bawling “LOOK what he did to me!” I’m not sure of the veracity of the story, but it’s in keeping with Dwarfenführer’s exhibited personality, IMO. He probably thinks himself SUCH a badass, punching and slapping so many people, screaming in their faces, but he’s truthfully only an ass with a bad attitude.
Jere,
It’s probably one of the few ways he has to feel powerful. And since he can be really certain that no o e will fight back, he feels it’s his right to physically abuse people. Great inferiority complex he has going on.
Thank you Mike for all you do…. to help the big and the little people.
There was one time in the SO when we were at a muster when my CO got a call from Miscavige middle of muster. Obviously he ripped my CO on something for myself and several others were pulled in an office and screamed at by my CO and I was physically assaulted by same CO. At one point he was pressing all his weight on my sternum and I was actually in fear the pressure was going to crack it. One example of Miscavige’s culture of violence contaging wherever it touched. I was not innocent either. A couple years later when in a dispute with another staff member I started physcially shoving him and we ended up in an altercation. Lovely environment…not.
I hope that wasnt me…
If it was, I apologize once again. But I don’t recall ever crushing anyone’s sternum…
I got called out of muster routinely to take calls from “COB” that were more often than not some sort of berating for who-knows-what. OSA is a terrible world because you are responsible for the things that upset Miscavige the most — bad PR, legal problems etc etc. His reaction to orgs stats crashing or disappearing altogether was nothing compared to a bad article, and especially one that mentioned him.
“His reaction to orgs stats crashing or disappearing altogether was nothing compared to a bad article, and especially one that mentioned him.”
That made my day:-)
Relax Mike, it wasn’t you. Most you ever did was embarass me at a muster. And no need to apologize, I have always considered us friends.
Thank you ?
Or in other words, “it is of no concern whatsoever that two staff or sea org members fail to apply ARC – the most basic principle of scientology.”
Therein lies the “jenga dilemma” of scientology. For every lovely, fluffy piece of wisdom, there is always another that counters it later on until eventually the whole thing collapses in a heap of contradiction.
Observing how staff and SO treat eachother is the primary gauge of what a world would be like under scientology rule.
The secondary gauge is how they treat those who disagree.
I’d ask any on-the-fencers lurking here to consider that for a moment. And after everything you’ve seen and experienced, is that really the world you want for yourself and others?
It’s also the end-justifies-the-means rationale, and situational ethics, that underlies Hubbard’s approach to the world, and all of Scientology. Anything written can be cast aside – or particular writings can be cherry-picked and twisted – when it suits the organization and its leader, and serves their ends.
This is also why members, expecting justice based on what they may have read, and then going to seek it at something like a WISE arbitration or through the Scientology “justice” system, discover that instead decisions are rendered based on what serves Scientology, and its ends of acquiring power and money, and not on any altruistic principle as in traditional justice. That’s another point on which they should consider, what a world run by Scientology (as it’s actually turned out to be, not as theorized or idealized) would be like – much more like the kangaroo courts and rubber stamp justice systems of totalitarian regimes.
Peacemaker,
Beautiful summary illustrating the wide chasm between Hubbard’s written words about dealing with underlings i.e. his instructions exuding understanding, intelligence and compassion, and how management is actually practiced in the Church of Scientology’s Sea Org.
The SO is a training camp for criminality without conscience.
One must operate as a psychotic before going psychotic.
They’re all in there to go OP (Operating Psychotic).
“You have to be OP before you can go OP.” –Aqua.
Those who were once in will get this gruesome humor and I’m sorry for it, there’s truth in it, truth that’s not funny at all.
Anything and I do mean anything that can be done to get these Sea Org people out, or, barring that, to bring down the Church of Scientology once and for all so that the Sea Org people have no choice but to leave, is THE goal. The only goal
Aqua – oh my, “You have to be OP before you can go OP.” –Aqua. The greatest quote I’ve read in awhile, wish I had come up with it. LOL !!!!!
Thanks Ms. P. I meant it to be amusing but actually it isn’t funny after all.
That said, the SO training from what I’ve read IS one continual theoretical and practical exercise after another in how to live and survive in a false reality. It the Sea Org this entails learning to selectively lie and defraud without conscience, to punish, destroy and persecute selected others, without conscience. All in the name of “ethics” and “survival” and “the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics”. This IS psychosis. People go into mental institutions with this kind of mindset. Practice being a psychopath long enough, get positive validation for psychotic behavior early on and long enough and its no surprise if you become one for real.
Sorry to be a wet blanket and bring you down after making you laugh, Ms. P. Your appreciation is appreciated, please know.
OK – to me it was a play on words and you making fun of “you got to be OT before you can go OT”. How many friggin times did we hear that bs.
I don’t find going psychotic in the SO funny.
Got it. Play on words = funny; going psycho in the SO = not funny. You summed it up well 🙂
Oh, and Ms. P, not to beat this to death but I MEANT it to be funny at first and then afterwards FELT GUILTY for joking about it. 🙂
Peacemaker:
The reason I got out was partially because I experienced for myself how insane a “cleared” society of his design would be like. Heck, Flag at the time was going gangbusters, so ‘ethics’ SHOULD have been light, by all policy, but in the middle of the boom, Hana Eltringham, probably the most dedicated and effective SO executive I ever knew, got RPFed for someone else’s false report of a R/S. Her stats of course didn’t protect her, nor the esteem all held for her, including Tubby (most times). The ‘auditor’ most likely mistook a dirty needle at too-high sensitivity, IMO, the dirty needle itself caused by his bad TRs. She did such a great job, and without raising her voice that I remember. Scientology boomed in the ’70s & later because of people like her who got the job done using positive reinforcement instead of punishment. WhenDM’s style of (mis)management silenced the folks actually getting the job done, scn’s stats crashed and there’s no chance, under his rule, that quietly effective leaders can rebuilt what he destroyed. I once thought that the indies might have a chance, but Marty was too instrumental in that while he was anti-DM. Lately, he’s too pro-DM and that insanity, and likely to infect the rest of the Indies to return to cos-lite or something other than sanity.
jere, it’s interesting to hear that you got out because of the contradictions, and injustices – I think that a lot of us became disaffected in the 1980s for just those sort of reasons, and I appreciate your sharing your account, and perspective. My take is that those who are left, are those who don’t have the ability to see, or be disturbed by, such inconsistencies, at least not until they themselves fall victim to them – I’d be interested to hear what anyone with more recent experience, has to say about that.
I agree that Scientology boomed, in the 1960s and the 1970s, and then for a bit longer, because of a certain type of person – but I think that was virtually all there was to it, idealistic young people showing up and wanting to help others any way they could, making the best of even bad situations. My take – and I think there’s ample, though not always obvious, evidence for it – is that the decline began under Hubbard, with a combination of his expansion of totalitarian control through the Sea org, and the demographic drop-off of energetic and idealistic young baby boomers coming into the missions and orgs, and it’s just become more obvious, and accelerated, under Miscavige.
I see the failure of any indies anywhere to make anything really workable or successful out of Dianetics and Scientology, as a reality-check that the “subject” is “unworkable,” and unsalvageable. Remember, in particular there are the Europeans, like those in the Ron’s Orgs, who have long had the freedom to make whatever of it they could, and the benefit, at least initially, of significant numbers and lots of energy – and yet they, like everything else, are failing and dwindling.
I think it’s also telling that all Sarge Gerbode was able to make of it (TIR) when subject to proper scientific research, was a marginally effective talk therapy. That confirms to me that is all it has ever delivered, and what the idealistic boomers at the orgs and missions were relatively successful at mostly just out of good intentions and a willingness to listen, during that seeming heyday.
Not sure how this keeps happening but I sign up and receive your newsletter for about a month or two then it mysteriously disappears. Wondering if this happens to others. I miss reading this blog when it goes away. I know I can still find it but I prefer the lazy way of it showing up in my inbox.
Thanks for all you do!
For a few weeks now it has been kind of messed up – I am no longer receiving notices either – also, my name and email used to be here automatically – now i have to type it in each time i comment. Also – it used to show “submitting comment” – it no longer shows that and it no longer gives the ‘edit’ option.
Not sure what’s going on – as I didn’t change any settings – and I have checked and nothing is different.
I hesitated to jump in here, but the blog software has been changed and adjusted several times recently, probably in search of better features with better controls. That is probably the reason subscriptions aren’t working and features area changing.
I am having the same issue Sue…..I had been able to get in without having to add ALL that information as well…AND I was also able to SEE & EDIT my comments….
HELP MIKE, there’s one of those IMPLANTED BODY THETANS screwing things up…..
I was wondering. I really miss the notifications every day! Glad to know it’s not just me.
There ARE a few books published that give a parent “lessons” on how to discipline their own children by “training them to obey without question.
It involves a certain “ultra conservative religious sect” and the parents of these children believe it is in the best interest of the child to be raised from infancy using the suggestions in these books. Seems like this way to raise children promotes Generation to Generation Physical Child Abuse..
Balletlady,
What you ‘nurture’ is what you will get. History is ignored and we repeat again and again what doesn’t work and actually seem surprised ‘nothing gets better’.
Problem with THAT is that these parents think it is NORMAL to raise children that way. They also are home schooling & isolating their children from contact with the outside world.
These children do NOT learn CRITICAL THINKING because as in COS, they are only shown ONE side of the coin, the coin they are indoctrinated into believing in 100%. How could they NOT believe in it since they’ve had no opportunity to see, read, learn anything else.
There are indeed ample references where Hubbard condones and glorifies violence – for what apparently inspires the current tyrant, there’s Responsibilities of Leaders and “Bolivar,” in which “source” writes admiringly about some of the absolute worst and most unjust things that human beings can do to others*. There are also reports of what went on during the supposed “good old days” of early Dianetics and Scientology, such as in 1952 when US Marshalls tried to serve a warrant on Hubbard in a bankruptcy case, resulting in one drawing his weapon when they were attacked by some of his followers, 3 of whom were arrested after local police had to be called as backup.
* https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-responsibility-of-leaders/
** https://tonyortega.org/2018/05/24/when-rabid-scientologists-got-into-a-fistfight-with-us-marshals-to-protect-l-ron-hubbard/
Note the newspaper headline: “2 US Marshalls Beaten While Serving Warrant”
Come to think of it I like the current Thug-Org system.Their learless feader eh fearless leader from South Philly provides them a structured life.
Screaming we have da tek on everyting!!!!!, everybody else is stupad!!!!!!, mixed up with beatings, stealing cigarettes and writing reports on each other for $50 per week.
It keeps the World contained from insanity, criminality and war.
The coward still-in members remind me of the O’Connell kids.
The Sea Ogres are learning the sole method of survival in the Sea Org, i.e., bullying and abusing whomever is weaker and more vulnerable than they, including member of their non-SO families. The love that their family members have for them would make them vulnerable and as such edible breakfasts for the cult, so their love is held above their heads like a whip. In real time I’m seeing the power that young Sea Ogres are wielding over their non-SO Scientology parents. Those of you who miss your disconnected Sea Org kids might feel somewhat better about your plight if you saw what I’m seeing in real time, with parents’ lives and finances utterly controlled by the cult via their SO “children”
aka psychopaths in training. You might feel better about being not in a position to be trampled on and your love manipulated and used by your SO children anymore. If you were still connected, this might break your heart even more than being disconnected from them is breaking your hearts now.
Just so ridiculous! I know it looks crazy on the outside, but I can understand how someone on the inside reads this and thinks, “OK.” It is just reprehensible what this organization is doing to peoples’ minds.
I wouldn’t put it past Hubbard to have made up his whole “I single-handedly saved the neighborhood from the bullies” story to make himself appear “tough” and as though he’s some kind of “savior” no matter what he has to confront. Boys tend to do that, dreaming of beating up their childhood bullies and being a “hero”. Hubbard certainly has a history of embellishing all that he claims to have accomplished throughout his life. I would be willing to bet he made this whole thing up (along with most of the other grandiose “accomplishments” he claimed) to make up for his own insecurities about himself.
The problem is, Scientologists look to him as the epitome of how one should live their life. Add in one of his protégés as a new leader who is a violent sociopath with a short fuse who can take it to level 10 in a heartbeat, and this is the perfect recipe to put this culture of violence that exists within Scientology on steroids.
Mick – this is spot on!
If someone is willing to fake MILITARY records – which are easily proven – then FOR SURE that same person will lie about a childhood that isn’t as easily proven true or false.
At this point we all know the LRH was a habitual, compulsive. pathological liar. What a great leader to follow! (smfh)
Mick, , indeed, I can’t recall any reports of Hubbard himself carrying out his violent fantasies and directives – he left that mostly, if not entirely, to followers and subordinates. In the incident in which US Marshalls were injured in Philadelphia that I (and Brian) reference elsewhere, Hubbard presumably set the tone, and also was present or nearby and didn’t intervene to get his followers to back down, leaving them – including the key early executive Helen O’Brien (to whom he wrote the infamous “religion angle” letter) and her husband – to get arrested.
Hubbard’s “beat their teeth in” letter smacks to me of someone who bullies with words and has an armchair fascist’s appreciation of violence, but rarely if ever acts themselves. It’s too over-the-top for him to even carry through on – he might have gotten away with a slap or even a punch, but not permanent physical injury that might bring on legal charges – so it would fit that his bully story is more about what he wishes he had done than what he acted on. My guess is that if anything, that youngest O’Connell kid might have been older, but was smaller or incapable of defending himself, and Hubbard did something like threatening the others that the if they didn’t leave him alone, he’d further victimize their weakest sibling when he had the chance – that sounds more like Hubbard’s modus operandi.
Mick,
Of course he made it up. Just about everything he wrote was concocted in his mind and represents what he wished he was- a Great War hero, a scientist who is saving the world, a magical everlasting being, a “swami” who has all the answers- and now a hero of the schoolyard who saved the entire school from a pack of bullies.
Hubbard was a real life Walter Mitty who lived in his fantasy world where he was always the best, the brightest and the strongest. I don’t beleive a word he has written and look at is as a useful tool to dissect the psyche of an egotistical malignant narcissistic creep.
Yeah that’s about the truth of it all , more tall tales from an insecure child…??
Mike I have to ask this…all the bad press that Scientology has gotten do you think Miscavage is feeling any heat at all.
He is feeling intense heat. He is afraid to be seen in public at this point because he fears people asking him uncomfortable questions (“Where is Shelly”? being the top of the list). He has become almost as much of a recluse as Hubbard was at the end. Any time he ventures outside his compounds — which is ONLY to do scientology events these days– there is massive security, walls constructed, sidewalks closed down etc so anyone outside the flock of sheeple cannot see or hear him even.
Good. I hope he drives himself crazy (crazier).
(I’ve heard it’s not good to hate. I’m working on that but not yet.)
🙂 Me too
Hatred is NOT good for the soul. It will corrupt everyone around them.
Right now I hate snow. It will not consume me, but at the moment I feel very strongly about it.
There is a difference between hatred and being fierce in standing up for a principle.
Keep up the fierceness!
Thomas, I for myself believe your post was SPOT on.
Mike, I was never in Scientology or anything like it (in terms of a cult structure) but I do understand what a pervasive bullying culture does to one raised in it. All my admiration and respect to you for turning it all around with such dignity and intelligence. Hope you have the strength to keep going, it cannot be easy. You’re an inspiration.
Surfer Dude, I really look forward to your posts here. On a small personal note, a quiet but decisive turnaround point in my life came when I for the first time heard the term (quite accidentally) “rageaholic”. In my middle age!! But better lateish than never…
I believe the best way to break down his walls and get to him is by showing him pictures or videos of people laughing at him. I believe he won’t like that. As Mike has said in the past, that will drive him CRAZY!
P.S. I sure do wish I could use the BOLD editing feature. I have no idea why it’s no longer available to me.
Wooh- Skyler! I would NOT want to see his reaction if someone were able to show him that. I think he resides in a bit of a bubble world, with a lot of the outside truths sheltered from him- would YOU want to be the one to show him that if you were in the inner circle? He would likely beat someone so badly they would need hospitalization. I’m sure he is aware that there are major issues and problems, and he may be aware of it, but I doubt he has fully confronted the day to day reactions to it, especially with others present to see him. Yikes!
“sidewalks closed down etc so anyone outside the flock of sheeple cannot see or hear him even” tee hee yet even at those events someone who is a sheeple in wolfish clothing usually seems to manage to sneak by and report back to the outside world what is happening.
His paranoia must be through the roof as he believes everyone wants to harm him. I wish him no physical harm. I just wish his empire of sand would crumble.
Another add on to Hubbard’s actual instruction to harm people is in The Responsibility Of Leaders: his essential instruction on leadership.
He actually says that not having ruthlessness as a leadership skill can help you fail in leadership.
Ruthless
—adjective
without pity or compassion; cruel; merciless: a ruthless tyrant
There it is. Hubbard actually instructs to be violent in leadership. DM is just a good student who did not see this instruction as a metaphor. Which it wasn’t.
Below is a link to an article I wrote on Mike’s blog which links David Miscavige’s violent behavior with studying the words of L Ron Hubbard.
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-responsibility-of-leaders/
Mike did DM only target the high level executives or did he assault anyone?
Generally the high level people — he was afraid of the immediate consequences of some lower-level person who might run right to the police. The higher echelons were conditioned to this sort of behavior.
he doesnt seem like a big guy, did anyone ever fight back or were they just in fear of him???
I think he has security goons with him most times so if someone did try anything they’d be stopped right away. Marc Headly told a story how DM shoved him down and he (Headly) saw red but before he could do anything the goons grabbed him and pulled him out of the room.
They were in Fear Kevin. While being attacked anyone could have clocked the prick. He was a little guy. I had a boss in the sea org who was 6’5″ and 250ibs.. He attacked me and I managed to do damage to him quickly.
Wynski, would you care to write a Success Story? 🙂
Seriously, very well done!
Not too many accolades for me Aqua. Hubtard described a bully accurately. He was one himself so knew that they cannot take what they dish out. 😉
Does that mean it’s ok for me to beat up members of the cult when I see them now ?
I’m pretty sure that’s a NO.
Why in the hell would you want to do that? When I was in the cult, any antagonism from the outside only reinforced my beliefs that scientology was under attack. What I needed to free myself from that mental prison was honest, accurate information and love and support from those on the outside who could see that I was suffering from undue influence. Hate will never conquer love.
I’m pretty sure that is exactly what the Cult would want, to justify the hate they claim is surrounding them at this very moment. I’m very much in awe how Mark B, Tony O, Darth Xander, our own Mike R and just about anyone I have ever seen on video, handle themselves when confronting any member of COS. I so enjoy watching those Zombie Cultist try and carry on a conversation that makes any sense at all. I actually feel sorry for them and hope one day they see the light and run like HELL. I’ll be in Clearwater later this Spring for some fishing time with friends and family. Will def make sure I cruise through Zombieland. Maybe a few shout-outs of “Where’s Shelly?” 😉
Personally, DM couldn’t win a fight on his own to whip his own ass…
That would be my last instinct. They have been conditioned to expect violence, so I would want to treat them with respect and kindness, blow through all layers of conditioning and get them to realize that the guys “on the outside” are actually the good guys, not the bad guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6jKE6YIxmc
What’s Going On……………………Marvin Gaye…..
Yeah Dave M…WHAT IS GOING ON & WHY?
Disconnection, beatings, imprisonment in the hole, money not returned….
Open the Gate…..LET PEOPLE OUT WHO WANT OUT …etc etc etc…
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?
BTW………………….WHERE IS SHELLY?
“Does that mean it’s ok for me to beat up members of the cult when I see them now ?”
—
Oh, If I were an entirely different type of guy…..,
But the last time I hit someone was when I was 15, which was 50 years ago. Broke my hand doing it, so I’m unlikely to do THAT again unless someone’s threatening me and mine,
IIRC, the police might have a word to say about your beating up some random scientologist, and if you’re NOT a scientologist, they won’t protect you. They WILL protect whomever you beat up IF you are defending yourself. I believe that would fall under the ‘Bolivar’ policy, their permitting an attack of any troublemaker they encounter, or even Miss “pink legs”.
BTW, “back in the day”, the security guards IIRC, never once used their batons or mace spray in the ‘line of duty’. Chatting with one guard, a friend at the time, he didn’t seem prepared to use them. I wonder if they now are prepared to use them, or if they’ll just talk at an intruder as another calls the cops( my recommendation/preference) From what I saw of Mike trying to get in to see his son, They didn’t seem inclined toward physicality beyond blocking Mike’s path to keep him outside the doors as someone else dialed 911 to get the TRO against him for just wanting to see his son.
IMO, other than DM at the upper (mis)management offices where he can control things, scientology doesn’t seem to be a very physically violent organization. That’s to be expected as the whole study is ‘above’ the physical (other than the 2D, where/when it isn’t suppressed.)