This is the PR line that is presented on the Sea Org.
It is their motto “We Come Back.” It goes hand in hand with signing up for a billion years – we will return, over and over, lifetime fire lifetime to fulfill this obligation. Ask any Sea Org member, in fact, any scientologist and they will explain this with absolute certainty.
Yet, since the formation of the Sea Org in 1967 — more than 50 years — there is not a single case of a Sea Org member returning to duty after their 21 year “leave of absence.”
L. Ron Hubbard himself is way overdue — he should have “Come Back” in 2007. No sign of him.
And it makes not a shred of difference to scientologists, they continue to promote this fable as if it is a proven fact. Hubbard said it, so it is true and damn all evidence to the contrary.
As I have often pointed out, people are free to believe whatever they want, until those beliefs cause harm to others. In this case, the belief results in people becoming victims of human trafficking.
Well, I left the Sea Org 21 plus years ago, and I did not “come back”, after 25 years of my life spent there (age 13-28). There is no way I will ever do such.
That includes any future “lifetime”
Maybe Mike is wrong. Maybe LRH has been back since 2007. In fact, he may have come back several times!
Maybe as a skunk that got run over by an SUV. Or maybe he came back as a pig that got sent to the slaughterhouse. Hey, maybe he came back at some point as one of those zoo monkeys that throws their excrement at people walking by their cage!
See? The possibilities are endless!
Any Ex-SO miss the good old days of all nighters, screaming seniors, rice and beans, sec checks, no liberty and the threat of an RPF assignment?
Only the masochistic ones…
Missing the SO is identical to missing those migraine headaches. 😉
I sincerely believe that we all filter reality through our beliefs. It really doesn’t matter what is really true as long as we believe it is true. And we point to our beliefs to prove that our personal version of reality is correct (to ourselves at least) We can change our beliefs and that automatically changes our reality…. to me, this is how Scientology traps people, by changing their beliefs and therefore changing perceived reality.
Oh, they come back allright …
They come back to you over and over again until you pay up …
And then they come back to you over and over again for more …
I love when that guy in Aftermath was told his $$ would be there for him in his next life! 😂
Yeah, that one has always been a favorite of mine!🙄
Laura graced us with:
“I love when that guy in Aftermath was told his $$ would be there for him in his next life! 😂
Yeah, RIGHT! But will it be there for him in THIS life?
Of course the “SERVICE” he was being sold wasn’t worth anything, in this or the next lifetime, but we couldn’t see that at the time. It was truly a bubble of an irrational alternate universe.
I remember when I was in my 20’s how that phrase, “we come back,” excited me…I’m immortal?…I can clear the planet for a billion years?… what better purpose can there be than that? I almost peed myself at the thought of being a savior of mankind for a billion years. (HA!) That’s all I ever wanted was to help people. Drum roll. 5-10-15 years later…burned out, pissed off, disappointed, disillusioned and done! It was a all a lie. the hype is immense when you are staff…that’s how we kept each other going. Late night talks about “Ot stuf,f” amongst us youngsters just like RB shows in his cartoons in his Friday weekly column here which I LOVE. I think I’m still trying to get back some of that enthusiasm that was burned out of me way back then. LOL
Rosemarie, you captured the grind well. We all were trapped by our dreams. It was only when I got enough of a shock to my system that I could step back, take an honest appraisal of the present and possible futures — all the same ol’ same ol’ — that I CRASHED and SOMEthing had to change. Flag decided it was me that had to change & beached me, not caring what happened to me afterwards. I was too DB to take on any post they had. I wasn’t even good enough for the RPF, for chrissakes!
Consciousness is self defining. That I am conscious now might give rise to the possibility that there could be a continuing consciousness.
If someone wants to trash past/continuing lives they might as well trash heaven/hell while they’re at it. They’re both concepts about a continuing self aware existence in a nebulous concept called “the rest of eternity”.
This topic comes up every three or four months and never goes anywhere. If someone has a definitive answer as to how consciousness came to be in the first place I’d like to hear it.
Richard, the most believable assertion I’ve heard in my retirement science geek-ness is that Consciousness emerges from a certain level of intelligence. In computer terms, I’d call it a monitoring program constantly running, taking note of what has been previously tagged to be “of particular interest”.
As much as ancient thinkers & religious leaders loved the idea that consciousness is separate from the body/mind, there’s no reproducible evidence that this “spirit” or “soul”, or “satan”(remember to lisp) exists. I have to admit that the thought of immortality gives me some comfort, but I’m not banking on it. On the other hand, I’m leaving the God idea undecided. IF he/she/it exists, I’ll find out too soon for my tastes, so there’s no reason to rush to a decision.
Jere – “retirement science geek-ness” – laughter
You should get a trademark on that. lol
From a certain point of view, having a vast and magnificent universe without consciousness to observe it doesn’t make any “sense”. Stretching the point, the same might apply to a Universal Intelligence or continuing self awareness.
Some people witness or experience things which fit in the category of the paranormal or supernatural and others don’t. Some people examine such things to put them in a context of science and others don’t.
End of Zen contemplation.
The purpose of the universe …. is to have no purpose.
If I get good at this stuff, I could START A RELIGION! and make a BILLION dollars.
Richard, anything I post is free for the stealing, a much more liberal interpretation of the “Creative Commons” idea. I’ll keep trying to think new ones up, nonetheless. Heck, most humor is situational.
Richard, Hubbard and Scientology’s version of reincarnation is falsifiable, because no one ever comes back with memories, or specific skills or knowledge (like a craft, or a foreign language) claimed – or if there were any verifiable cases, actual ones would so rare as to be virtually meaningless among all the faulty and false ones. The same applies to any other version of the concept that involves such recall and carry-forward of abilities.
I suppose it’s possible that there is reincarnation without those specifics, but based on a sort of general karma of behavior, lessons learned and needing to be learned. But there’d be little distinguishable difference between that and a collective model like the Akashic Record.
The concept of heaven and hell doesn’t make specific claims that are testable, so it’s not falsifiable. But as with many other ideas and beliefs, it’s just one of a wide variety of often conflicting ones across cultures, that human beings have made up, so logically the chance of it being a correct sort of guess is relatively small.
I think it’s worth reviewing from time to time, particularly for new readers, because it is a central easily disproven claim of Hubbard, one that demostrates how suggestive and hypnotic techniques are misued and abused. In the cult of Scientology it’s a key one exploited to control people and to get them to act in contravention of their own bests interests in this life, one that leads in cases to forms of human slavery, unnecesary illness and death – and arguably to crimes, and possibly in a few cases to the killing of others in the belief “ending cycle” just means they’ll “come back in better shape.”
As I say, getting people to believe in a false version of their own past history, and in a speculative future that likely doesn’t exist, and then to act upon it in such detrimental ways, is probably the closest thing to brainwashing that exists.
Okay, but what if some twenty year old comes into an org today, signs up for auditing and during the course of their sessions has cognitions of being on the Apollo and can recall these in perfect detail? How would you explain this?
Alcoboy, what if some twenty year old comes into an org today and says he’s been sent from the future, to tell Scientology that it’s been conclusively proven that there is no individual reincarnation, just an Akashic Record-like collective species memory, that also explains such things as how butterflies can navigate long distances?
If or when it ever happens, we can assess the evidence and plausibility….
PeaceMaker – Yes, I basically agree. Most or probably all religions offer a description and a path to “immortality” which in many cases of leads to irrationality depending on the level of blind commitment.
On the other hand many people outside the context of religion experience moments of satori, enlightenment, revelation or other such descriptions which gives a different perspective of one’s place in the universe.
I think the Buddhist tradition and maybe other Eastern philosophy and religion says you “come back” in basically the same condition as when you left. haha 🙂
Peacemaker:
There have been a few historical figures who evidenced genius at SUCH an early age that the easiest, maybe not the best, way to explain it was memories from a prior life. The only examples that come to mind are musical; composers primarily. Then there is the relatively recent scientific study of past lives dealing solely with young children.
Jere, if people remembered things from past lives then fundamental skills such as the (likely foreign) language of their last incarnation could be expected to be among the abilities carried forward – and yet they never are. So musical prodigies probably just have exceptional brains with uncanny abilities in that particular area; but if you want a more esoteric explanation then the Akashic Record is still superior to individual reincarnation by the logical and scientific standards of being simpler but explaining largely the same phenomenon.
I’ve never seen anything on supposed past lives of children, that didn’t fall apart on scrutiny. Remember how easily children were lead to make untrue claims of satanic ritual abuse in daycare centers; they are highly suggestible and it’s easy to end up subtly coaching and even inducing false memory syndrome in them, just as happens with adults in Scientology.
Peacemaker, well said.
I think part of the problem is that you can’t really conceive of not existing. The idea just “doesn’t compute”. Logically it seems likely that consciousness comes to an end when the brain shuts down for good, and evidence from fMRI studies that show activity areas in the brain related to conscious tasks sort of bolsters this idea.
We don’t really know, there is no way to scientifically prove an assertion that lies outside the bounds of that which is described by science.
People like to say they have no faith, they only rely on things that are proven by science, that there is no “unseen”, we know it all etc.
That isn’t even true for those who shout it most loudly. There are huge libraries full of all the information you would have to study to know every single fact you need to survive in today’s world.
You know apples tend to fall when they are dropped, but have you studied all of Newton’s laws? Do you know why the gravitational constant is what it is? Do you know about the refinements discovered by Einstein? Many people have studied all that and know it pretty well, but not the majority. And yet they confidently believe in the Google Maps GPS location shown on their phone.
Do you dare to open the door? How do you know there is not a vacuum or a fire on the other side? You don’t know, but you have faith based on experience that it is unlikely you will die when you open the door. If you strive to live entirely without faith, you may become paralyzed into uncertainty.
Even if you are well educated, you probably haven’t studied every part of your daily life in excruciating detail. There is probably an LED on your phone or monitor as you read this. Why does it glow? What does that have to do with the Pauli Exclusion Principle and quantum mechanics? Do you have to know all that to read this comment?
For most of us the answer is of course no. We don’t need to know it all to know enough to get by. You get educated from what you hope are reliable sources, (NOT Wikipedia!) learn enough to get by and take the rest on faith.
Anybody who says they “believe in the science” does not understand science. Or belief.
On subjects that are not part of science, like the afterlife or reincarnation or the spiritual nature of man, we can’t just say that science proves them all false. What peer-reviewed, replicated scientific paper says that? They aren’t scientific assertions so science can’t really say anything about them.
What usually happens is someone makes an assertion about such things, and others either believe or not based on their estimation of the reliability of the speaker. If it rings true to a lot of folks it can become a wide-spread belief. Of course many beliefs claim supernatural validation, found on golden tablets or spoken by angels or or or. Probably the only real way to evaluate these things is: does it ring true to you? Do followers of these beliefs commit crimes in the name of their beliefs? Or do they improve the lot of those they contact?
What do you tell a child whose mother has just died? Who has not lied in this situation and failed to mention the abyss of nothingness that is probably the true answer?
We use faith to fill in the gaps when the answers cannot be proved by science, yet we really need to know. Faith should always be accompanied by doubt and questioning, but it is an integral part of life even for those who deny it.
Bruce, I agree there’s a lot more that could be discussed. I just think the obviously falsifiable version of past lives peddled in Scientology, and used as a tool of control and exploitation, is a good example to use to debunk and clearly demonstrate how flawed Hubbard’s ideas and the ideology based on them are.
One thing I would note, is that the research in various areas that is leading to our understand of how mechanisms such as what are now coming to be known as cognitive biases, is demonstrating how our brains are wired in ways designed to propagate our species, and which served the purpose of survival during our long development into hunter-gatherer tribes, but which can also lead to mis-perception and belief in illusions. I think our sense that we carry on somehow reflects the reality of how our genes are passed down, and thus is arguably just another thing that developed in us because it had value in terms of survival and evolution; but that’s not necessarily all that there is to it, either.
The latter part of what you wrote sounds very much like what is covered in a recent book titled The Knowledge Illusion.
The Knowledge Illusion sounds like a good one. I read the beginning of “The Enigma of Reason” by Hugo Mercier but it was over my head.
Some of what Hubbard said about past lives, children remembering them etc. sounds so much like Dr. Ian Stevenson’s “Children Who Remember Past Lives” that I wonder if he cribbed the whole thing. The dates don’t quite add up though.
Or maybe they’re both true. Some of Stevenson’s accounts are hard to refute.
Peacemaker, my understanding is that past lives can’t be disproven, but can only be proven by someone demonstrating memories of a prior time & place. There’s one scientist who did a pretty believable study of only kids younger than, I believe, six. There are many problems with doing a credible study of such, and he seemed to avoid them all. It’s certain that Hubbard’s attempt (“Mission into Time”) was a total bust. Afterwards, even HIS attempts to put a positive spin on the abjectness of the failure were inadequate to the task. 100% fail, and it obviously burned his butt.
About people not coming back and human trafficking.
In the 90’s Hamburg org was SH size and leading all orgs. The ED (sorry I forgot her name) was even doing tours in other orgs to tell then what to do. Then suddenly the SH award was canceled. What came up was that the org had false statistics. The ED was taken of post. However she had a huge leadership and power in the org and field. She couldn’t stay there. So she was pulled up at Gold and “incarcerated” there. Some kind of life long RPF, even though if she wasn’t SO.
She was forced to disappear into an hidden place and for what I know she never came back. But maybe some one here knows more details.
Wieneke Hansen. Still painting sets at Gold.
Thanks Mike. Right! Wienieke Hansen. Still at Gold. Forgiveness is certainly not part of scn. Instead, eternal punishment is. One can climb a thousand lower conditions and A to E steps that change zero. After 25 years still there and she will never get out (alive).
Lmr, the Sea Ogre has Billion-year punishment™ perfected. And to think, they all VOLUNTEERED to serve their sentences
I think the first name is actually “Wiebke”. She spent a long time in the kitchen and then moved out to paint giant set backdrops out at the Cine Castle. Hard to imagine what she is doing now, apparently they aren’t shooting anymore.
Painting sets is actually a high skill, they have to be good enough to at least briefly fool the eye. Like that famous scene in “LA-LA Land”, with a beautiful beach and palm tree that suddenly starts moving away. The camera pulls back and you see the truck driving off with the background in tow.
The LRH Birthday Event where she accepted piles of awards for the magnificent but faked statistics at Hamburg Org was a funny contrast. Turns out that with typical German efficiency she kept a full set of real statistics hidden away. That allowed them to bust her. But really, they should have just gone on giving her awards. She is only different from the rest of them in that she got caught.
Yup, the ONLY crime in scn is getting caught. Get away with it and you’re GOLDEN. part of “success” is fooling the wogs.
Painted herself into a corner she can’t escape from perhaps?
From 1877-1945 there lived a man named Edgar Cayce.A photographer by trade and a devout Southern Baptist,he was also known as The Sleeping Prophet.He would be able to put himself into a trance state and at first be able to diagnose various health problems that people had and then suggest treatments to cure them.Every reading he gave was written down by his secretary and collected.One day in the middle of a reading he mentioned a past life that the patient had lived.Upon awakening from his trance he never had any recollection of what he spoke about.The theory of reincarnation was completely opposed to his Baptist upbringing.Yet more and more of his subsequent readings dealt with karma and reincarnation.He never charged any fees for his services.Was he the real deal or not?I do not know for sure but his medical readings were almost totally accurate.Edgar Cayce said our souls reincarnated because we still had lessons to learn and to try not to make the same mistakes we did before.Many people do not believe in reincarnation,which is fine.In Mr.Hubbard’s case,I suppose if he were ever to reincarnate his lesson would probably be to try not to be a pathological liar,con man and general narcissistic dick head.Just saying.Make of it what you wish.
Edgar C. also said he was an Atlantean Priest. It is one of those faith things, as it has never been proved by Science. For example, Atlantis has never been found so how can archaeology prove that a mythical place existed, let alone someone had a past life there? Oh, and believe me, I have watched many a show with Josh Gates and Giorgio Tsoukalos exploring the world looking for Archeological evidence of Atlantis. Journey in time is nothing compared to what these guys do.
Rationality demands that we prove some of this stuff, not just on best effort. I believe the fact that there are no past-life Sea Org running around as an invalidation of the Hubbard claim that there are past lives because people dreamed them up while in a reverie. Just saying, I believe Mike Rinder is correct here.
As for some of Edgar C.’s prophecies, the Bimini Wall off Florida is thought to be a natural formation; not a road to Atlantis. Another debunked narrative. And this is all coming from a (skeptical) ufologist (yes, I am still building my tin foil hat).
I have come to believe Ron, as he is affectionately called by the Still-In crowd, was a product of his times and a severe case of wanderlust. I am not defending him, just acknowledging that we’re in consensus on his negative Ego issues. There is no doubt why his adherents adopt such pathology as well.
To Whom It May Concern
Thank you for reading my comments concerning Edgar Cayce.Many people do not believe in anything he said while under a trance state.They also do not believe in reincarnation.A few Eastern religions do,but that is about it.And you are correct in the fact that nothing he said can be definitely be proven either way.And like the Scientologists,there are certain ultra Orthodox Jewish sects that are waiting for their head rabbi,who passed in 1990,to return again.He has not come back either,just like Mr.Hubbard.But I find all these theories interesting nonethelesss.I appreciate you voicing your thoughts on this matter.In the end,just like Anton Levay admitted maybe some people really are just good liars.I appreciate you hearing me out.
Nancy, my Mom was one of Edgar Cayce’s devotees — at a distance.
I haven’t figured out what his particular *trick* was, but I strongly suspect he had an inside source of information like some stage mentalists and some/most faith healers.
Thank you for hearing me out.I,like many others,was in a bad place when I discovered Cayce’s writings.I suppose we believe what we want to believe at the time.I was never a Scientologist but I believe everything that Mike and Leah have said about it.I appreciate all the responses I have received so far.Now I feel like a gullible jerk.No wonder my daughter is an atheist.
Nancy, Cayce is an interesting example of the erau that Hubbard grew up in, with lots of metaphysics and pseudo-science, and of systems of thought and occultism, promulgated by various claimants and gurus and organizations. Quite a few could be seen as precursors of Hubbard’s ideas, Dianetics and Scientology, if not actually sources for his plagiarism – and almost all got forgotten between the depression and the world war and the age of modern science, which helped make it easy for Hubbard to pose as “source.”
I think that like claims of reincarnation, Cayce’s medical readings would fall apart under careful scrutiny, and turn out to be the result of wishful thinking and intellectual shoehorning (confirmation bias*) on the part of recipients and followers. Cayce likely had the cold reader’s ability to glean more about subects from subtle cues and clues than most people can, and to speak ambiguously in a way that allows an audience to hear what they want; and based on a few unusual examples I’ve studied, I’d grant some possibility that figures like him could have a minor degree of uncanny ability such as psychic power, that reinforces the illusion more than being legitimate on its own.
* “Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one’s prior beliefs or values. It is an important type of cognitive bias that has a significant effect on the proper functioning of society by distorting evidence-based decision-making. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. For example, a person may cherry-pick empirical data that supports one’s belief, ignoring the remainder of the data that is not supportive. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs.”
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Nicely put, Peacemaker. “Friday the 13th is a LARGE example of confirmation bias, from the research I’ve seen. Other pedestrian superstitions can be, as well; probably are. Black cats and touching/knocking wood are others I came up with as I wrote. “Speak of the Devil is one I hold, TBT.
We may only have a handful of years of consciousness in a cold, endless universe, and sea org members choose to waste it all by falling for the con of L. Ron Hubbard. It really makes me sad.
One of the coolest metaphors I heard was that the universe tppk 14 Billion years to evolve be self-awareness, consciousness, that WE, and perhaps other planets’ intelligences are the apex of the Universe’s evolution. We are all composed of star stuff, so are part of the Universe.
DARN fat fumbling fingers. tppk should have been took and I MISSED it.
I became a Buddhist in 1962 a full ten years before I ever even heard of Scientology. In 1972, I started in Scientology thinking that the religions would be compatible. Nothing was farther from the truth. Hubbard tried to hijack the Buddhist religion and make it into his own personal interpretation. After seventeen years in Scientology, I finally threw off the entire idea of the thetan or the spirit. Reading old ADVANCE magazines, Hubbard tried to make a case that past lives in Buddhism were the same as Scientology. Total nonsense. Hubbard ultimately claimed that The Buddha was exteriorizing thetans but did not know it. Well, Buddha answered the question by calling men like Hubbard “Stupid Men”. In Buddhism, Consciousness ceases at death, period. Any reference to a past life is only the Karmic effects. In the ADVANCE magazines, Hubbard completely missed the entire point of Buddhist cause and effect. If he understood Buddhist cause/effect, he would have never associated past lives with Buddhism. That association misses the entire point of the Buddhist religion.
But isn’t the Dalai Lama considered a reincarnated spiritual leader by his Tibetan Buddhist followers?
Right, Joe. I saw a show on the Dalai Lama which indicated that the “outgoing” one would give some prophesy of his successor, and that candidate replacement(Kids, IIRC), were tested with the old one’s personal possessions to identify which had been “his”. It’d be “cool” if there’s truth in there, but I reserve judgement, just in case.
Personally, I don’t think it makes any sense (to ME) that a thinking creative being is simply a bunch of cells, neurons, etc.
I can give many common sense points that make the case that we live over and over in a succession of bodies.
But am I ONE HUNDRED PER CENT certain???? No, of course not. On the other hand, do I think that ALL the pictures and feelings that pop up from what looks like the past are just imaginary? No I don’t. Human bodies seem to be given up much too easily and in such hundreds of millions of numbers to be all that there is.
But …
Joe, “Simply” a bunch of cells, neurons is a bit of an oversimplification. I see it as AMAZING that consciousness developed out of such a simple arrangement, and that it seems to work so well — in most people; Flat-Earthers and creationists excepted, of course.
A simple pattern, replicated many, many times, can create sublime complexities, like fractals.
Joe, Tibetan beliefs and practice are very distinct, a mix of Buddhism and earlier practices in the region, that includes a pantheon of a variety of deities and demons. So I would say it’s a bit atypical, and may schools of Buddhism try to avoid particular theological or ideological beliefs.
As a matter of convenience I used to occasionally sit (meditate) with what I eventually figured out was a somewhat culty little group of Tibetan Buddhists – it turned out that when the Dalai Lama came to town, they would protest against (!) him because of a dispute over the particular non-Buddha deity they venerate, and the Dalai Lama’s position on that one in relation to other deities.
Thanks Peace Maker for the info
Xenu to Sea Org members: “I just escaped the mountain trap and gave Hubbard a little taste of his own medicine. You’ll need more than a billion years. Power to the BTs!”
We only have Hubbard’s word that Xenu was the villain #XenuDidNothingWrong
#Bow_To_Lord_Zenu, grisianfarce…. 😉
I actually had dinner with Xenu last week, and found him to be a great conversationalist. He even picked up the tab! He says the story about him is all wrong; that Hubbard wasn’t paying his taxes – sound familiar?
Anyway, I had a delightful time.
Scribe, Doing it “Ron’s way” was ALWAYS going to take much longer than a billion years given his outrageously large “contract period”, IF it could have been accomplished at all. That’s allowing that he was working TOWARD his stated goals. If he was instead talking about his apparent INTENDED goal, he was doing fairly well to get 100s or 1000s of folks to enslave themselves to him in 30-40 years.
Nice that our lord and master Zenu got THAT out of his system. Now there’s the Tiny Twit™ who’s in Zenu’s valence.
As pointed out, Hubbard was due to return in 2007, and “no sign of him.”
However, what I find even more telling is that there has been no word from him either. If the cult is to be believed, Hubbard voluntarily relinquished/dropped his perfectly healthy body (strokes, what strokes?) in order to do “research” unencumbered by it. So where is that “research?”
Surely, the most advanced Oatee in the entire cult has not been idle in the last 34 years (a time span almost as long as that of him offering his “researches” in the flesh). And one would think that one as obsessed with making his opinions and plagiarized insights universally known would have found a way to communicate them even in his exteriorized form to a civilization dying from its lack of exposure to Hubbard’s “advices!”
Otherwise, what was the point of the greatest humanitarian deliberately dropping his body in the first place? Surely not to leave us all hanging at this critical juncture?
Todd, there’s a SLIGHT chance LRH™ is back as “Justin” but I’m not ever expecting to see evidence of a “returned” LRH™, not that it would mean anything to anyone in the real world.
We always joked, during the frequent and interminable “all-nighters,” that the Sea Org motto should be “We never leave.”
Also, “We Want Out!”
How about this one, “We Never Get Paid!”.
And that all time favorite, “We Never Think.”
ALL of the above are good replacements for the SO’s “We return”, since no one HAS returned.
O/T. Church of Scientology authorized to establish a training center in Saint-Denis, Seine-Saint-Denis, France.
Titles translated using Google translate.
Konbini News: Justice authorizes the Church of Scientology to set up a center in Saint-Denis
https://news.konbini.com/societe/la-justice-autorise-leglise-de-scientologie-a-installer-un-centre-a-saint-denis?fbclid=IwAR2_1ZlNBJY-8pow6Z7rn–3HaJUzehPuRXzk8ZDi2039-4kSYHvPd_iskw
Tribunal Administratif De Montreal: The court annuls the refusal of the mayor of Saint-Denis to authorize the installation of the training center of the Church of Scientology in his town.
http://montreuil.tribunal-administratif.fr/Actualites/Actualites-Communiques/Le-tribunal-annule-le-refus-du-maire-de-Saint-Denis-d-autoriser-l-installation-du-centre-de-formation-de-l-Eglise-de-Scientologie-dans-sa-commune
Judgment in PDF format:
http://montreuil.tribunal-administratif.fr/Media/TACAA/Montreuil/Jugement-Anonymise/1912506
/
I don’t see that at O/T, since it was about scientology shyly peeking out of its implosion just enough to warrant a story in a neutral media outlet.
I hope it doesn’t presage scientology re-establishing itself in a country that IIRC, Hubbard was convicted in absentia of various crimes. As I’m thinking, I believe I saw something indicating that the Twit™ won’t go there for fear of being served legal papers, being forced to give a deposition or worse.
Finally, a Really Big building – so there’s room enough for Central Files.
Speaking of which, anyone in Europe have any ideas about how to turn the record-everthing tendency of the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology into a decisive GDPR case?
If so, please stop by a friendly lawyer well versed in the machinations of the Co$ and then go to your country information commissioner. Hungary has started the work, but more can be done.
SEA ORGANIZATION
Contract of Empowerment
I, Joseph Blow, DO HEREBY REFUSE to enter into employment with the SEA ORGANIZATION and, being of sound mind, do fully realize and disagree to abide by its purpose which is to ENSLAVE others on this PLANET AND THE UNIVERSE and, fully and without reservation, reject the discipline, mores and conditions of this group and pledge to repudiate and speak out against them.
THEREFORE, I LIBERATE MYSELF FROM THE SEA ORGANIZATION FOR THE NEXT BILLION YEARS AND BEYOND.
I found this quite helpful to read, Scribe.
I think it undid something for me that needed to be undid.
Thanks…
Glad to hear it John.
There are no OT/Clear powers. None have EVER been demonstrated. No one has EVER come back. L Con is long over due. Interesting that many $ci recalling their past lives said they were Joan of Arc or Napolean or some other well know historical figure. How could many of them have lived a past life as the same person?
I can’t see how ALL of them were the same historic person. Could it have been Joan of ARC’s or Napoleon’s BTs visiting different pre-OTs? Or more likely, the same symptom many have “realized” in the mental hospitals over the years? Naah, it’s all just delusion to satisfy the Auditors’ demands for an earlier-similar, and it’s “cool” to have ‘been’ someone historical.
Hubbard said a person who was merely associated with a famous person might “take on his or her identity”. For a practicing scientologist that explanation would be good enough.
This is absurd. It is on the same page of the modern day transhumanists who believe they will be able to transfer their consciousness to a machine as a form of life extension. That is also absurd.
Golden era parachute, I’m beginning to believe the trans-Humanists might be on to something. Already, this computer is becoming my long-term “memory”. Anything I was to remember, I just note somewhere; I just have to remember or discover WHERE I put it. Thank Zenu for “search” on this OS. Choose the right keyword, and the memories flood back
The problem with current computers is that the human interfaces are all quite creaky and slow, depending on us typing or speaking clearly, and remembering TO input the data in a timely manner.
Jere – Years ago I watched a TV show which had a segment about a guy who decided to record his entire life onto a computer, sort of like keeping a diary. I don’t recall if he said how many entries he was making daily. This was before smartphones so the idea seemed far fetched at the time but probably easy today.
The downside might be becoming totally self absorbed.
I have a button here that says:”I have not lost my mind— it’s backed up on disk somewhere. Once we get a direct connect to a backup hard drive, I’ll be an early adopter. Having to type in what’s happening to me is a real PITA, but useful in its way. Think of a computer hookup as a super journal, or the ultimate backup of our important memories. OH, make that disk or SD card or whatever R/W, so it augments my failing memory subsystems, and I’ll be ecstatic!
Hey Jere – Now that’s a good start to a science fiction story about an embodied Artificial Intelligence. Alternately it might a good start to a Stephen King horror story. The return of Frankenstein’s monster.
. . . with a computer chip rather than a brain making it work. Hopefully someone like Igor doesn’t screw up and pick the wrong chip.
hey, there be returns of defective electronics, Richard.
Laughter!
And if there’s a meat brain in the loop, it’s not “artificial” intelligence, but intelligence augmented.
Hey, if the CPU is a human brain, we can’t call it artificial Intelligence, but perhaps Augmented intelligence.
Already, it could be said that the InterwebZ has created a sort of super-mindwith ALL of us contributing to the larger whole, not horribly different than a hive mentality where the “hive” is the whole world. Already, I can see that certain social problems are possibly being solved due to many, many minds contributing their 2 cents. Certainly, it’s contributing to scn’s implosion.
Has anyone ever done the stat’s on Sea Org and Real world work pay. Let say you have 1000.00 volunteer staff and if they make .68 cents per hour. In the real world minimum wage is $12.00 per hour. the cult gets 17 people more per hour than the real world. That is an complete office staff for a small business.
It’s no wonder why they want to keep them believing in something that does not exist.
Barbara, the problem is that in the real world, the employees produce real products and can leave whenever they want without fear of reprisal for abandoning the company. The SO staff HAVE no product and are AFRAID to stop working when they’re too tired to do a proper job. Sleep would allow them to do a better job and not run those poor bodies into the ground.
Barbara, those asserted 17 workers are doing make-work by Hubbard’s policies…. Lots of work, no product. Davey-Boy has made it even worse: 17 bodies, nothing accomplished except to feed Dwarfenführer’s outsized ego.
How, then, do they explain those who have LEFT the Sea Org? Given how few Scientologists there are these days, and the SO to public ratio (about 1 to every 5 or 6?) I’d wager virtually every Scientologist knows at least one person who was in the Sea Org and has left. So how do they rationalise the billion year stuff? Oh, wait…
Oh, and what about the likes of Heber, Ray Mithoff and Guillaume, who are no doubt sitting in The Hole this very minute waiting for Ron to come back? Any day. Any day now…
PartTimeSP. There is an FO (flag order) where hubbard says that who leaves the SO is a degraded being. This is known (more or less) among scnists. They maybe think the guy is gonna come back next lifetime, after having done some bridge. .
Honestly there is not much logic to look for in this huge scam.
Personally I won’t come back in the SO even if the Galactic Confederacy comes to ask me to do it. LOL.
Right, LmR: the LAST thing I would ever do would be to rejoin the SO. It. was bad enough in the ’70s, but it’s gotten even worse. Among the other indignities, only foreign nationals are allowed into the SO, and their passports are confiscated to ensure their “loyalty”. I LIKE being a Pennsylvanian! Don’t make me have to come back as a New Yorker, OR WORSE, a Texan.
PartTimeSP,
scientology requires its followers NOT look at the subject rationally; just follow directions faithfully.
PartTimeSP:
I take it as “given” that there are FAR more “bitter defrocked apostates” than there are active scientologists. Add in the UTRs properly and there may be 1 or 2 clapping clams for every 100 of “us”, with more switching sides every day. Sadly, they’re losing “active” scns due to death at a disturbing rate. I expect that there are 10s of scns dying in anonymity for every one we hear about.
I have always wondered why so many who want to leave scientology have had such a fear of being a suppressive person. They are only words to me and I definitely don’t fear those words. Then I read somewhere that the fear is loosing their eternal soul (spirit). This is just my theory, but if your spirit believes in eternity than it will always believe. Whether a scientologist or any other religion. Coming back has never happened in any religion that I know. Besides, if scientology was a slave labor camp in this lifetime why would you want to come back and do it again. I say lock arms and walk out that door and enjoy what is left of this lifetime.
To those who chose to stay Stop The Flow of Cash that is going into David Miscavige’s pockets. He is robbing you!
When one makes the decision that Scientology will turn one into a god-like super-being, with that comes the absolute certainty that other religions will not do that for you. Yes, the belief is that all beings are “eternal”, but in what condition? So Scientologists end up putting up with all sorts of duress and abuse, because the end goal is that spectacular (they believe), and that important. In order to leave all the crap, one has to realize that there is no “there” there. Once that happens, walking out is a piece of cake, because there no longer is any good reason to put up with the abuse. The problem many have with the “being declared” issue is what comes with it – friends and family who remain will disconnect from you. Of course, if one still buys into the pitch, the fear is that the wonderful, eternal, immortal state will be denied to you.
Right, Barbara. If the soul (in Scientology called the “thetan”) is immortal then it can’t die, so how is it even possible to “lose” one’s eternity? “Immortal” means “not mortal” which means that (whatever it is) was never born and therefore will never die. Whatever it is is not of this mortal world, because anything that gets born is going to die at some point; its in a time stream. Well the soul (thetan) supposedly is NOT in a time stream. “It” is infinite, no beginning, no end. IMMORTAL. “Immortality”…”infinity”…”eternity”… choose your way of saying, “no beginning no end”. Ergo, based on this premise i.e, that the thetan is immortal, how can ANYONE “lose” their eternity?
Fyi, I asked a few different staff members this question. I shared with them that I wasn’t in the least worried about “losing my eternity”. One of them was OT 7 or 8 and told me that there WAS an answer but that it involved “confidential” material she could not share with me. Yawn. Even back then, as unsuspecting and gullible as I was, this answer didn’t impress me. Lose my eternity? I’m supposed to be afraid of this? I think not. And, frankly, if I can do this simple deductive reasoning, anyone can! I can’t understand how anyone would give this a second thought, seriously!
I think the operative term in the “lose your eternity” thing is an lRH quote that I paraphrase here, where he says, “YOu’ll be in the future, either in a good state or a bad one. Will you survive as a cinder or as a Big Being?”
LRH also says that we have no other option than to survive. That we are surviving and will continue, but in what state? The whole thing about losing your eternity is BS because he said we are surviving anyway. I guess they mean will you survive in a good way or a degraded way.
Yes, thanks, Cindy, you’re absolutely right, and I’ve read that too. But org staff were fond of bandying about the phrase “losing your eternity” and I took exception with them to the word “losing”. Its completely the wrong word and conveys an entirely wrong and (per LRH) impossible concept. Obviously it was someone’s arbitrary or dub-in being utilized as a not-so-subtle threat to get us public to do or buy whatever happened to be needed or wanted right then. OTs seemed to be particularly fond of it. To me it smacked of the fear of hell fire propagated by mainstream religions – which, needless to say, would go over like a lead balloon with me. I therefore took advantage of the opportunity to throw this “losing one’s eternity” piece of out-tech right back in their faces whenever it was used on me.
Good for you Aqua! Throw it back in their faces. The losing your eternity is also how they get kids to disconnect from their parents and vice versa. As in, if you refuse to disconnect from your parent, you will lose your eternity and have the equivalent of burning in hell fire for eternity. What kid wouldn’t quake under that threat?
Well, Cindy, hellfire is such bullshit. Sorry to sound like I’m bragging but I never believed it, even as a child. Way before Scientology I asked those who believed in hellfire, “What exactly is BURNING down there in Hell?”
Bodies? How can someone’s body, or anything, burn forever?” Simple common sense but then I have my parents to thank for making it OK to ask questions. They always encouraged me reach, to try to understand when I didn’t understand. From my earliest memories asking questions was habitual and they considered it normal and correct. I didn’t have my parents for very long but I consider myself lucky to have had them at all.
I’m with you on that Aqua. Even as a kid I never bought into that.
AND, what was the teacher/preacher’s response to your burning question? GOOD question, BTW. I’m bummed that *I* didn’t think of it or some other suitably sticky one. MY Q was that because each denomination says “ALL others but US are wrong and going to Hell” WHO is right? They can’t all be right, I think.
Jere, the Sunday School teacher (a very nice lady, btw, older, a kind, grandmotherly type, very nice with us) became very uncomfortable because I was questioning her directly and expecting a simple, direct answer. I don’t recall exactly her words but she was sort of verbally twisting and turning away from answering. The main concept I got from whatever the hell (sorry:) ) she said was that this question could be only answered by having enough “faith”. To me it had nothing to do with faith so I kept asking her and finally she couldn’t take it anymore and kicked me out of Sunday School class – not unkindly, mind you – she was an excellent sort of person – but she couldn’t answer and couldn’t find it in herself to say, “I don’t know”. So she suggested I go upstairs (where my parents were attending adult church service) and come back when I had more faith, or something. She was very gentle with me- but firm- she wanted me out of her face with that question! As I shared before, my father solved the whole silly thing with his simple honesty and directness: “I don’t know. No one knows. And its not important anyway. Stop asking Mrs (?) that question because she doesn’t know, and its not important anyway, so don’t worry about it anymore.” Handled! LOL! He said it wasn’t important. If it were important he would have told me it was important. I trusted him; he always told me the truth. If he didn’t know, he said so.
Also, Jere, as to YOUR Sunday School question, I think its an excellent one for a little kid to formulate – indeed how CAN all of the religions purporting to be the only game in town as regards eternal salvation etc., – how can they ALL be right? Each claiming that its My Way Or The Highway so to speak – effectively that makes each of them (if you’ll forgive the Cultspeak) “Only One”s, no? A really good question, I’d say, and let me guess – it wasn’t answered? You were fobbed off with non-answers?
@ Cindy – glad to hear it!
Barbara.
“Suppressive” declares, AFAICT, operate a lot like Voodoo: ONLY if you believe in that form of magic can it affect you. While in, we are taught that a SP is a sub-human so incredibly vile that none would want to be one. WE are there to help the world, not harm it, so being considered one is the worse thing that can happen to us. “Losing our eternity” means returning to the grind of living, dying, forgetting everything, being suppressed by the psychs, having a HORRIBLE, brutish, and short lifetime, and repeating endlessly; NEVER becoming a superman able to transcend all that. While we BELIEVE in all that fantasy, we don’t want to completely lose the possibility of that dream. The reason I’m so snarky about Davey-Boy is that I still hold a SLIGHT hope that scientology might have been able to find the path (or bridge) to fulfill the dream, but that DM, as the most successful SP, has destroyed scientology so completely that it can never recover.
I recall my auditor telling me about a conversation he had with an ot8 lady. He said he expressed his concern that he wouldn’t make it all the way to the top of the bridge in this lifetime. She apparently told him that Scientology could give him some type of contract (I think he used the term passport) so they would assure that in his next lifetime he would get involved in Scientology again. This made him feel much better about the situation.
Has anyone ever heard of any such thing?
In the 90s they were pushing the “Scientology Passport”.
A little booklet that has places to sign off for every Scientology completion, including all the books and lectures. Probably it got messed up when all the names of the lecture series were changed as part of the “Basics” program. Then more messed up when the Briefing Course and other major parts of Scientology were marginalized.
The idea is that when you die, your passport is “sealed” (confiscated by the Registrar). When you come back, if you somehow remember your old name you can get your passport back. You can start over right where you left off.
Minor complication, if you screw up and “go into the white light” after you die all your memories get wiped in the Martian implant station and you’ll never remember your old name. OOPS. Supposedly there are secret instructions you are supposed to follow to avoid this. Doesn’t look like it works.
Another rumor is that if you have completed OT8 you somehow become able to remember your past name next time. No evidence that this works either.
I have met several Scientologists who believe they were “cleared by Ron” in a past life, or were in the Sea Org when it was called the “Loyal Officers” of the OT3 story. Many who believe their spouses were someone they met and poisoned in the Middle Ages or something. But never anyone who actually remembers their old name.
Thanks, very interesting
Re passports, not confiscating them would be a good start. Of course Micromanage Miscavige would never allow it.
Some brave soul needs to take a cue from Ron, blow up Central Headquarters, and change the motto to “We Can’t Come Back.”
There’s nothing to come back TO, Scribe. Never has been, just delusions.
Pretty soon, the word scientology will become only a short footnote in a specialized history of scams, cons, and flip-flams; no ordinary person will remember it or El Con.
Bruce, your memory is better than mine. I remembered it as just another scam to get the clams to “donate” more, that there would be some way to complete levels paid for this lifetime
The only reference that I recall – there was a passport, but I don’t recall any such promises coming with it. It was simply a little book that had all the courses and auditing steps that you did checked off. So it really wasn’t much more than a pocket version of your certificates of completion. I don’t know if they still exist. They weren’t a hugely popular item back then, a few decades ago. The only “coming back” thing was the Sea Org contract, but to the best of my knowledge, the actual coming back was left up to you.
During the “Passport” push in the 90s mentioned by Bruce, Golden Era Productions included an advertisement before one of the tech films. It depicted a young boy walking through futuristic doors and up to a counter in a Scientology org. The boy says something like “I’d like to renew my passport”. Of course, nothing like that has ever happened as indicated in today’s article. Just another false claim.
L. Ron Hubbard – I consulted the Akashic Record – lots easier these days with Google-powered search.
Now on his 15th reincarnation as a palmetto bug in the basement of the Ft. Harrison Hotel. Somehow he keeps getting squashed before he can properly discharge much of his heavy debt to society. If only he would just try not to crawl up their legs…
The great new feature of the Record is the Future Track option. The results are rather fuzzy, but apparently there is a significant chance that Hubbard will eventually come back as the promised future political leader. But the image seems to include whiskers, a long nose and beady eyes. Maybe a future body type after humanity? What does “belling the cat” have to do with anything?
Seriously, though, who knows how long it takes to take the star-circling process to a real End Phenomenon? Years, hundreds of years, thousands of years, did you have a thought there? Scientists believe that this could be Hubbard in session: https://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/pub/245500.php
The only way out is through, and it takes as long as it takes. Maybe a star had to die, but finally that sebaceous body thetan is peeling off of his forehead. We’ll see him when we see him, just like the promised cleared planet and the Sea Org longevity bonus.
Bruce:
From what I’ve learned of the Akashic Record, It may well be the logical outcome of Google and other search engines.
The wiki on Akashic Records:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records is probably WHY I think of the ‘Web’ being the records, and Google as the index into them.
When still in, I was shocked at how some CMO personnel appeared to be no more than 10 years old, and assumed these poor kids must be past life OTs, to be able to carry themselves with such confidence and pose. Sadly, they have lost their childhoods and possibly their lives to the Church but with all the work being done to expose them, hopefully some can be saved.
Sarbjit, those CMO kids weren’t any more capable than anyone else, just more cocksure of their power;
“The arrogance of the uninformed”, I believe.
“Many are called, few are chosen”
That’s because the vast majority won’t have anything to do with the Puddle Org.
Of course, this phrase is borrowed from Matthew Chapter 18 (The parable of the Wedding feast.)
11 But when the king came in to behold the guests, he saw there a man who had not on a wedding-garment:
12 and he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding-garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and cast him out into the outer darkness; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few chosen.
I always found the morality of this parable very dubious and I am surprised that Hubbard decided to use it.
I suppose the intended point is that the Sea Org is an elite group and only the best are selected to join.
Unfortunately, this is not the way it works out in practice. Most Scientologists are well enough aware of the bad treatment, long hours and poor pay and conditions that they would never join, not even under extreme duress. I was certainly in this camp and I was placed under very heavy pressure at times.
And so they have no choice but to accept anyone who meets the basic qualifications. It is a big disconnect between the ideal scene and reality.
When I’m calling you
If you’re gay then it’s no…no…no…
But if when you hear my cash register ringing clear
And I hear your answering purse opening it’s so dear
Then I will know our claws have got into you
You’ll belong to us and you’re through
You’ll belong to us and we’ll own you
With apologies to Indian Love Call.
These days, the many who are called don’t answer.
Caller ID is SUCH a blessing.
Good article. To the point.
Just about any scientologist who has had some auditing will claim that they have lived before in a previous life. NO scientologist (or anyone else for that matter) can provide a shred of evidence that such is the case. I dare say that there are some regular posters here that claim they recall previous lifetimes. Still no proof comes forth.
I make these assertions as someone who actually believes in past lives. I have had this belief as long as I can remember as a small child even though the religion I was brought up in most definitely did not teach this idea and I knew of no one around me who had these beliefs. The trouble is, even though I believe in past lives, I have no evidence for them. If someone else does, I’m all ears.
The closest I’ve seen to actual evidence is a Tibetan lama or tulku. But even with these guys (and a few gals) there is no hard and fast evidence and when quizzed about it they are elusive. Look no further than the ongoing controversy surrounding the 17th Karmapa. If it was all cut and dried, there would be no controversy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karmapa_controversy
The ability to install false memories, especially using hypnotic techniques, is well documented. The book “The Memory Illusion” by Julia Shaw covers this. People who desperately wanted to remember “satanic rituals” in their early childhood were able to do so, with some skillful “coaching”. Then some real investigators like Shaw showed that memory is a lot more plastic than we like to believe.
Strangely the procedure to create a false memory is almost identical to a Scientology “past-lives” session!
Similar objections apply to the alien abduction stories and to people like the famous Bridey Murphy.
There is some evidence for past lives in the works of Dr. Ian Stevenson, I have yet to read a fully convincing rebuttal for all of his accounts. There are many who say “It’s impossible so therefore it’s impossible!” but that doesn’t actually prove anything.
Julia Shaw’s book is an eye-opener.
An obscure but interesting point – if you go all the way back to the 1950s Hubbard’s logic went something like:
1. We “know” that eidetic memory is a reality that can be achieved by all. How we know that is not explained.
2. Therefore the brain must be able to record this complete record.
3. But there are not enough neurons in the brain to record that much information, even if you include connections between neurons.
4. Therefore the complete record of all experiences in your whole life, including two eyeballs worth of images at 25 per second, cannot be stored in the brain. It must be spiritual! Scientific proof of the eternal soul! Voila!
Julia Shaw’s book blows that flawed logic out of the water. Basically we retain memories that we often revisit, and sort of invent the other memories from context when we try to remember things like what we had for breakfast in 1953.
Oh, Bridey Murphy…. A “big deal” back when my parents (& LRH™) were teens. A hundred years ago, it was a fad that faded soon enough.
Wiki at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridey_Murphy
Wow, Ms. B. I’m just like you. I believe in past lives but have no proof, no reality, no memory. It does make sense to me, though, that we come back, that we reincarnate. One life and then the soul going to some place called heaven or or some eternally burning place called hell never made much sense to me, but then none of the Biblical magic be it Christian or Jewish magic ever indicated to me as being real. So for me, this belief is purely subjective. And if it turns out to be objectively true I do hope I can come back as a woman. I really don’t want to be a man. Don’t get me wrong; I like them, mostly. They’re great to have around 🙂 I just don’t want to BE one. Shaving your face…ugh. And then you’re always expected to carry things…can’t wear pink; can’t wear…other things I like to wear…nah. But I digress.
Thanks for the reference Ms. B. Haven. It’s been a while since I stumbled upon that can of worms.
TBT, I’m in the camp of folks to whom reincarnation gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling though I can’t say I really *believe* in it. It’s just one of those old stories I like to hear again and again.
Mike, you misread the message. What it really means is that whenever the Sea Org (COB) is attacked, they always attack back. Hence the term comeback. There is ample proof of this as evidenced by Scientology’s high legal fees. Hope this clarifies the issue. Always willing to help!
Justin Craig’s attempt to prove he is the re-incarnation of Hubbard has failed with the fizz plop of a cheap firework landing in a fresh cow pat.
All those hours of auditing past lives don’t seem to have turned up any new verifiable (outside the Org) nuggets of information nor, famously, gold. And if anyone had found gold after remembering where it was buried in a previous life you can bet the Org and IAS would want all of it for their never ending mission to clear the planet, etc.
Hahaha! I love that euphemism. I can visualize Justin Craig’s LRH con as I see it.
What’s even more hilarious is that Craig when questioned by Tony Ortega gave answers that were equal with someone who had read the ‘wikipedia version’ of LRH’s life. He hadn’t even done any real research into the life of Hubbard and it’s all out there for anyone who wants to know it. He said lame shit like he was attracted to red heads named Mary not knowing that LRH called Mary Sue ‘Suzy’ (or that besides 2 other wives LRH had no shortage of women not all redheads). Then when cornered he said he had zero recall of his wholetrack and only ‘knew’ he was LRH because he was so good with the tech…which he now calls ‘esperianism’…okayyyyyy….all websites named esperianism dot com, net, info, org are DOA. Someone registered the dot org version just to put a message that it was a cult run by a felon but it now says ‘page not found’. Besides King Doosh (Grant Cardone), Justin Craig is another person I wanted to see go down. The con of Scientology is bad enough but to have this idiot gain followers…it just showed me that there are people willing to follow anyone. This fool isn’t even a charismatic speaker. When he gets his panties in a twist he resorts to name calling. Classy. LRH knew how to play people, he was charismatic, he knew how to handle the press and he never called a reporter a ‘piece of shit scumbag’.
Well said, Linear 13.
“Revenimus” (we come back). What a scam! Just an overall operation to use people for free telling them they are saving their eternity and the galaxy.
After 15 years in the SO I had to admit it wasn’t working. Too much falsehoods and hard life for nothing. We weren’t clearing anything (the people in the orgs was downtrend on many years (specially after 1996 when was released the GAT – golden age of tech).
Who was in the SO knows what kind of asylum can become that place. Always emergencies to solve that were giving anything back.
Thetan’s concept is a reflection of the ego that wants to get stronger. Hubbard’s ego was enormous. But ego dies every life. Only Life come back.
GAT was the beginning of the end of Scientology.
Linear 13. Absolutely. Was implemented with the hammer and all stats started crashing (and people leaving). People got even RPFed for being “know best” saying that the GAT programs were cutting successful actions. An asylum.
GAT was so successful they did it again. GATII!!!
Just WAIT until Davey gets to GAT/GAK IX & X
ONCE EVERY scn completes the “current” GAT/GAK, FINALLY they’ll dream up OT IX and release it to little acclaim, but GREAT gross income
“Evidence” is something…I better not say it.
You got that right…
OSD. Laughing. Usual dry nonsense. I missed you.
And I you…
OSD, you’re back! Where the hell have you been? Never mind, its none of my business and you’re back. Now where the hell is Wynski?
Right, Aqua!
And is FOOLproof still alive? I miss his presumably unintentional humor.
Jere, I think Foolproof voluntarily withdrew from posting here. I read his statement about it many months ago. Mike didn’t kick FP off the blog. Apparently he just decided to withdraw and said so.
He made a *statement*? WHERE, perchance, might that have been? And about when? did he post that he was going, or that he WAS gone, but only dripped in to say HI to his many admirers?
He was funny at times.
Hi Jere,
I couldn’t tell you exactly when, but – oh, off the top of my head I’d say circa 9 or so months ago I did read a comment of Foolproof’s in which he gavea heads up that he would no longer be posting here. It wasn’t an angry comment, particularly, as I recall. It was fairly brief and to the point. There was no mention of Mike “kicking” him off the blog either although perhaps there could be a back story where this is concerned. I was a little disappointed to read his farewell also. I did not always disagree with FP. Also he had a clever and amusing writing style.