A sort of follow-up to yesterday’s post about deaths in scientology. This from a slightly different angle.
I wonder if the person who put together this promo piece and chose this quote even gave it a moment of thought. Probably not. It’s good enough that “LRH said it” so we can just put it in here and it will inspire people. Because his words are inspiring. Always. No matter what they say.
But if you stop for a second, where is “the Commodore”? He has not “come back”? No sign of him (Justin Craig doesn’t count, or if that IS him then he regressed terribly in his between-lives implant station experience).
What about all those other Sea Org members who have grown old and died? Where are they? What about the run-of-the-mill scientologists? Where is my OT VIII father? He died 30 years ago… No sign of him. In 70 years, not a single, verifiable thetan has “come back”?
Sadly, these people actually believe they are saving the world. They believe the incredible simply because it was said by Hubbard, no matter the evidence to the contrary.
And not to ignore the other obvious thing here:
They have all those auditing rooms and course rooms and STILL need 140 auditors and supervisors. If they have 0 auditors now, and need 60, that means they also need 80 supervisors???
This place must have next to 0 staff.
AOSHANZO is officially a total bust.
IF “we” come back, it’ll be to clean up the mess 1.0 left. ‘Cept we’re working on it NOW, at the more-or-less beginning, where our efforts are more effective, since there’s been no compounding of the problems. Dwarfenführer isn’t a compounding problem since he’s altering most of 1.0’s policies, making staff even less capable or interested than when 1.0 was around. Davey and his cronies will never analyze the existing body of work, establish what “worked” on the glory days and update it to today’s environment, which MIGHT expand scientology from the pitiably small clique of today to where it was in the 70s & ’80s. Davey’s doing a GREAT job… of dismantling what had been comfortably growing, even if Tubby’s refusal to DELIVER on his grandiose promises drove many away, disaffected.
Searchin for Xenu
©2020 Mark Stephen Day
Searchin for Xenu
Can’t seem to find it
Been lookingn everywhere
Sinetology is trying to hide it
Searchin for Xenu
I got money I can buy it
Im running to the door
Too spend some more
Searchin for Xenu
My life is a mess
Spent all I had
Under duress
Xenu Xenu
Where are you
The galactic dictator
I cant see you
A politician said “Nothing is for free” and someone asked him about the air he breathed. Maybe he was a deep-ocean diver looking for scientologists votes.
I think they may need some more enticing slogans. How’s about this?
Join the Sea Org and drown in salty debt. Guaranteed!
I looked into Justin Craig, read his two books, and a bit of his web site. And in talking with two friends who had face contact with Justin both stated that “Ron’ was in that body.
This is my take. In 1986, Ron left the body in very bad shape. The 1986 Ron was nothing like the 1952-1966 Ron. If the 1986 Ron had any control over his between-lives period it would likely include wiping out the last years that he was such a miserable wreck. Any ‘good’ facet of Ron left around the time the sea org was introduced (1968?). Such a crashed beingness would not return in anything more, or better, than what we see. As long as one plays in the universe of polarities then cause-effect will prevail. Call it Karma and let it be a lesson to all.
I assume those two friends are still believers in the tech? Had those Theo friends ever had fave contact with “Ron” when he was alive?
It would be really easy to test Justin Craig. Ask him about the things on the Apollo or at St Hill. If he doesn’t know then a. He is just another Steve Fishman who was a clever con man or b. He didn’t “solve” amnesia on the whole track, or even for a half century.
Yes. Both had face to face with the first Ron. One holds to the red volume tech and one mixes the tech with other materials. I think Justin has been’tested’ and failed. Tony O had a write up and Justin ducked. I opt for amnesia or that Justin is but a shard of the previous composite. It’s even been posited that an old tech terminal copied Ron’s valence— which gives too much credence to the tech. Maybe Justin is another con man playing an earlier con man…..
Whatever. I ain’t buying what he’s selling.
Thanks for clarifying.
Jim, I’m certain from what little I’ve seen that Justin is an inept conman copying what he THINKS the previous conman, a virtuoso conman. was like.
Ron 2.0 apparently got his start at the Kreniks’ indie center. They are old-timers who go back to the very beginning, and my guess is that intentionally or not, they ended up providing him with the coaching and knowledge necessary to do a pretty effective imitation with Ron.
It reminds me of the fascinating cases of those who pretended to be Romanov Russian princesses and princes. They were taken under the wings of people who wanted them to be the real deal, and in a couple of cases so thoroughly absorbed the role that they were expected to fulfill, that they even fooled some people who had actually known the Czarist royal family.
Jim, I would step back and look the scene with less involvement possible. This guy has mostly out points than any plus point. I am Italian but his English many time has gross mistakes. Plus he knows to be hubby but lost the rest of the knowledge? This is why now is turning into squirrel?
Thanks LMR, not to worry.
I looked into what Justin was doing as I had been wondering if 2.0 had improved on creative processing, or simplified self-GPM running. Nada. Plus my BS alarms were flashing
As my reply to Mike Rinder above states: I ain’t buying what he’s selling.
Thanks Jim. My only point is that the corporate scn is already a mess (a friend I knew who came back some time go from SH UK as OTV committed suicide few days ago).
Imagine what can happen in the field among the indies who believe he is hubby, with this nut issuing new squirrel crap. One can’t even follow up the tragic consequences that would result: they are hidden in the woods.
Do well my friend.
LmR, I don’t believe Justin can make “scientology”, (what little of it that still exists) MORE dangerous to peoples’ sanity.
Jere. This nuts guy is even a squirrel. Guess what he can do to people. But it is correct what you say.
LMR,
Sorry about your friend. The levels from OT3-up can introvert one to the point that they lose it. At least the ‘old’ 0T4-7 were extroverting processes. Very few were up to doing the drills fully and Hubbard substituted more OT3 stuff.
Jim thank you very much. Yes this guy was a friend when we were in the SO. Then he also has left that asylum but stepped into another one as public. One year ago when he was just back from UK got a huge psich break. He became agressive. Then all seemed to be OK but it wasn’t.
Introversion I believe is really what happened.
Poor guy.
Thanks again.
Testing
George, it looks like that test worked.
Cult recipe for past life delusions.
1) Covertly create a trance state in subject.
2) Add a suggestion that subject has lived many past lives.
3) Stir in a suggestion that past life memories feel like imagination but are real.
4) Finally suggest that remembering past lives is to be expected and perfectly normal, whilst maintaining the subjects trance state.
5) Viola! Enjoy fresh delusional delusions!
As ex-scientologists looking for closure, taking Justin Craig seriously may be the healthiest approach. Yes LRH came back in the circumstances he richly deserved. No, scientology as a doctrine had absolutely no impact.
“We’ll have to come back to earth someday”
I’ll think about it. But I’m not making any promises.
WHO, other than the hopelessly masochistic, would WANT to come back to scn or the Sea Ogre? No one I’ve discussed it with.
You would have to be crazy to want to come back to the SO. But then the SO drives some people crazy. I know of one, a good friend of mine. But even he would never want to go back to the SO now.
No even marginally capable person would compose a sentence such as: “Nowhere makes you more capable as a being.”
If someone want really help others the SO is the last place to go.
You will never see real results of your daily sacrifice (and it is required your sacrifice for the goal) . You will be feeded with wins and good news you can’t verify but must trust and be enthusiastic about it.
You want really help? There are plenty of no profit groups that in their small possibilities are doing daily something for others. And most anonimously. Any help you can give (even if for you is very small) has instead a huge value and gives IMMEDIATE results.
In the SO you are even asked to come back to finish the job!
Reminds me of a manager I had when I asked to be transferred from a failing rewrite of our computer system by consultants & some employees to a legacy code position I’d had.. “You know, you’ll have to go back and fix it after they leave, so why not stay and get your licks in now?” I stayed, of course. *My* code worked fine despite their interference (I’m persistant), but their code had to be rewritten mostly immediately after their services were deemed no longer necessary.
If Tubbard had the tech to clear the planet wouldn’t he be the best example of how his “tech” worked? If his “tech” worked why did he smoke 3 packs of cigarettes a day, drink booze regularly, take pain medication, fly off the handle into screaming fits of rage. How could he treat his followers with such cruelty? ( Locking them up or throwing them overboard ) If his tech worked wouldn’t he have been happily married instead of betraying his 3 wives and children, not to mention betraying the mission holders and truly anyone who became a believer? What has $ci done to make the world a better place? If his tech worked why did he spent many years in hiding and die alone, drugged, paranoid and unkept?
A comparison between scn and oriental teachings can be interesting to see how hubbard build a huge scam.
Many of these eastern teachings mention or talk about past lifes but they never give particular attention to it. These are very periferical.
The key concept is simply that we are an expression of Life (or God, etc) having an experience. We are Life as well and we are the mean to this experience.
Therefore coming back next life or having been a Roman emperor has no meaning at all.
The attention must be on the present moment where all happens.
Instead scn has build this concept of thetan, while is simply a dramatization of own ego. And it must be said that scn practices strengthen furthermore the ego until the person thinks to be that being and relative abilities.
The guy has never been more far away from his real essence.
Yes. That is the way I see it. The ALL is everything. (Hermetic/Tehuti principle) . Hubbard’s artificial thetans, 7th dynamic and 8th dynamic etc are divisive and anti-encompassing the ALL. They are useful tools in finding where a spirit is corrupted, but the pater cherch uses it to break apart the individual person without reassembling the person as a whole.
Thanks a lot Jim. I like the way you said it:
‘to break apart the individual person without reassembling the person as a whole.’
And he hungs in that state without reaching anything. I would say quite evil.
They’re learning from DM’s events: not touting status and completions, but only saying how much they COULD do if anyone cared enough to get cracking on it. But no one does, especially the little guy at the top.
The “Advanced” word in Scientology’s “Advanced Orgs” offices, means “exorcism” and specifically exorcism of Xenu’s earth dump of “body-thetans.”
The OT levels 3, 4 and 5 are the first three exorcism steps one has to do.
Then OT levels 5 and 6 exorcism levels are done in Clearwater, Florida.
The “Advanced Orgs” continental offices of Scientology are the first exorcism centers where the advanced Scientologists learn the secret exorcism of Xenu’s earth dump of “body-thetans” (the mentally damaged surplus souls Xenu earth dumped and mentally implanted 75 million years ago and left here on earth, which now infest all humans).
“Advanced Orgs” equals Scientology’s secret exorcism training centers.
Whoopee.
How can Scientology ever sell that, once it becomes widely known.
That again is Hubbard’s fault. Him selling snipe-hunting, and “Sea Org” members sell and deliver this secret Xenu’s “body-thetans” exorcism and they never admit it.
That’s the new hard sell of Scientology, it’s an impossible selling point for why one ought not choose Scientology as a practice or staff job.
The final 10 pages of “Going Clear…” book ought to dissuade anyone from following Hubbard. Hubbard died failing to exorcise some of his especially difficult “body-thetans” it is explained, and worse. Hubbard thought for a moment, at least, he’d failed.
Hubbard told Sarge he’s not coming back.
It is so important I think for Scientologists and ex Scientologists to read the last chapter of “Going Clear…” by Lawrence Wright.
Chuck, it’s most important for scientologists to read ANYTHING about scn on the ‘net not part of scn’s propaganda sites. HERE would be a good place, but The Underground Bunker is also pretty good with an easily navigated archive section.
Join the Sea Org because misery loves company! Seriously. And please bring some Tpaper and maybe some healthy snacks.
And, apparently, cigarettes. Lots and lots and lots of cigarettes. And maybe some laundry soap.
I suspect that people HAVE come back … But as is usual when one comes back, having no recall of the last life.
So what is the practical difference between ‘coming back’ having lost everything that made you what you were (your memories) and being dead?
It’s a distinction without a difference.
Good question. This is the tricky scam of scn. The idea that you can came back keeping the ego you had (and got inmedesimate with) of the previous life.
When I say ego I mean all the ideas about me, my life, things I own etc that say “that’s me!”
Life has no identity nor a way to be labeled. Life is a continuous ‘now’. You can’t be now what you were before. Just Life comes back not the ego. The ego dies every lifetime. All scn attention is on the ego not on the rel life essence. Because there is nothing to improve there. Life is just Life. Hope have been clear.
I am a quite thorough materialist. One life, then you are gone.
I think Hubbard implicitly promises that it’s ‘you’ who comes back and I don’t think that’s meaningful if everything that makes youre personality is not accessible when you ‘return. You are, for all intents and purposes an new person.
I would say that lives end when a persons body fails them, and new lives begin with the birth of new bodies.
Even if you think that the ‘soul’ moves from one body to another, if you don’t bring what you were with you that also involves a death (of personality) and a new life.so that belief makes no difference.
I think we agree here, but I’m not quite sure 🙂
Thank you Scicrit. Yes. My concept is simply this:
One is just consciousness. He is awareness, He is not his mind (that tries to make him believe he his his own experiences) nor a soul as usually described because it would be a form of labelling. He is just Life, conscious of the current now but at the same time part of a all. You can call it God, Life, Not Manifest etc, it expresses through you. The concept of soul is still an extention of the ego making one to hope to not fully die. So we can agree that I am a bit materialist too. Lol.
Beautifully written
Thank you Jim!
Excuse me, LmR, but what did “inmedesimate” mean in your last post? I struck out trying to figure out what you meant to say.
Jere please excuse me. It is my Italian funny English. I meant “identify oneself”. Sorry.
LmR, your English is far better than my Italian; or German or French, both of which I was supposedly taught about 50 years ago. Italian? There are a couple of words which have snuck into English vernacular somehow. I can’t even ask where the bathroom is in another language.
scicrit, You’re of course right, but there ARE a few who claim/imagine that they’e been in scn/dn before and are past life ‘clears’. I’ve always thought those were delusions, but HEY, if it makes them feel good(gives an FN, who am I to invalidate them? Only DM can do that, don’cha know., and before that, Tubby with those two impossible “incidents” of oat tea 3 through 8.
It’s odd they can remember their social status in an exorbitantly-priced sci-fi therapy cult but nothing so mundane as their name or address. Not their org, what their auditor looked like or where they buried their Mark V, or anything else significant enough to help verify their claims.
You can date/locate being zapped, gazillions of years into the farthest reaches of the universe…but not when you attested to clear half a century ago. Weird. You’d think this would be rather useful to know, what with the wealth of personal data the CoS keeps on file.
On a separate note, has anyone remembered being a BT yet? They must have emancipated hundreds of millions of those blighters. Where are they? What kind of bridge do they get? You’d think there’d be a few back by now, clamouring for service.
It’s so odd. 🤔
It’s almost as if the whole thing is bollocks.
I was so dismayed to learn how to Date Locate.
Nooo!!. Every time I BDFN way before getting into details!
I had a lovely hazy fantasy all about last lifetime and auditing Book One. I wanted my address!
All nonsense, of course.
When I did the CCRD in 1996 the auditor asked what process I went Clear on. I came up with “Advanced Procedure” which sounded like BS to me. I was working in the Advanced Organization at FSO at the time so what was I saying; that I went Clear on Ned for OTs? The auditor Date Located the time I went Clear and came up with July 5th 1952 in Wichita KS. I later learned that the book”Advanced Procedure and Axioms came out in Wichita not long before that and “Advanced Procedure is a process or series of processes that Clear people.
(Continued)
(continued)
So, lets assume for a moment that all of those reading this are correct and that this past life stuff is all bullshit.
Fine.
So what is really going on here? How is it that anyone could convince anyone that these things are true? Are you good people really that stupid that you could be conned into believing stuff that unbelieveable? And I certainly do not claim that the ” Tech” is 100% unfalliable.
Case in point is on LOC the second dynamic was redefined as “Creativity”.
For me, as I told the sup that I had no 2D at the time that meant that the 2D was machine parts that I produced in the Freewinds Machine Shop. Making a Clay Representation of that made me want to Self-Terminate. In my humble opinion I believe that LRH came up with some good tech. Certainly none of you who say that he did not has come up with any.
“The auditor Date Located the time I went Clear and came up with July 5th 1952 in Wichita KS.”
Okay, great. Very specific. So did you ask to be provided with a list of people who went clear in Wichita, on that exact same date? If not, why not?
“So what is really going on here? How is it that anyone could convince anyone that these things are true?”
How long have you been out of the CoS? In the time since you’ve left, you’ve never thought to research the psychology of religious faith, of suggestion, misdirection, conditioning, cognitive bias, social compliance, or the placebo effect? If not, I most certainly recommend you do.
“I believe that LRH came up with some good tech. Certainly none of you who say that he did not has come up with any.”
Appeal to accomplishment. Add logic to the list.
I agree there is some therapeutic value to scientology. But it is also a path to delusion. Its workability relies on the rejection of reason, on expectation, faith and the placebo effect.
To what degree are you willing to diverge from reason to obtain benefit?
The answers you find may well be of use but how will you know, assuming you care, if they’re based in reality?
If you don’t care then surely my opinion is irrelevant, no? It’s just faith. There are 4000 religious paths to choose from. You’ve rejected 3999 of them. And I’m rejecting one more. That’s all.
This reply is helpful to me.
Thank you.
Thank you for rebuttal, sir. There are a few problems with it.
First, Th Wichita organization would not know that I went Clear on that date, I only found out in 1996 when I did the CCRD.
However, I do know the current lifetime name of the auditor who was in the SO at Flag.
I talked to her on the phone on 2005 and she originated that she remembers me from that lifetime at that time and place. We are no longer in comm as I have been declared for commenting on this blog. I have another past life auditing cycle which I have told earlier on this blog. If that one was bullshit I probably would have died in 1990.
MWestin offered:
“It’s almost as if the whole thing is bollocks.”
ALMOST!?
Your possessions are not what makes you who you are. You would still be the same spiritual being.
I agree that your possessions are irrelevant to your identity. I don’t think I suggested otherwise.
What I’ms saying is that I don’t see the point of theorising the existance of a ‘spritual being’ (AKA soul) when
a) There is no way to demonstrate the existence of such a thing
b) If your life starts anew every incarnation, without your memories, ‘you’ are still dead. What you were is gone, so the ‘spiritual’ part makes no practical difference.
Scicrit, Tubby/scientology didn’t theorize anything. He said it’s so and we’re supposed to take just his word for it, no proof offered or required.
No, possessions MIGHT NOT be what/who you are, but they give an indication of how good you are at “THE GAME”. ‘Course, Hubbard’s game was how many slaves he could accumulate. Guess he did okay at that though he never did seem to be satisfied with his lifetime accomplishments at the end.
Or, I think more likely, any who came back instinctively stayed well away or didn’t make themselves known — flying UTR.
They’ve spent years remembering their past lives, and training how to come back, and yet no one has.
I’d go as far to say no one has ever proved their remembered past lives were real – either unprovable details or demonstrably false details. All those treasure hunts Hubbard took the Apollo crew on were a bust.
I remember reading “Have you lived before this life’ and all of the ’emptyhandedness’.
I also had the thought that hubbard did not even prep the locations to impress others. oh well. I guess his smarts went in other paths.
Jim, Hubbard realized that science was never his strong point, even as much as he asserted his being an engineer or scientist of some sort.
A lifetime can be found in the haystack of OT 7 & 8 if there’s any charge on it. Bits and pieces of memory here and there after OT 8, but not of any use as the education is lost. I’m not sure, but I believe most analytical memories are lost with the death of the body. Hubbard said you “forget” when you enter a new body. I wouldn’t care less who I was last lifetime, but I’m not happy about the loss of data and knowledge. Why relearn everything all over again each lifetime … it’s a nuisance.
Agree Foremost, it’s a real PITA to have to re-learn EVERYTHING every lifetime. ‘course, newborns’ brains can’t deal with that much data, so there has to be data loss. But wouldn’t it be Kewl if we could start next lifetime with everything we know now? Nawwh! that would mean Tubby plagiarized SOMEthing right, and I’m not sure I want to give him that.
One of the biggest benefits of remembering your past life knowledge would be to NOT EVER get caught up in the CO$ again.